Love, Legacy, and the Afterlife: Ed & Lorraine Warren Remembered

In this powerful episode of Magical Journey Podcast: Between Worlds, host Daniel Ian Cohoon sits down with the grandson of Ed and Lorraine Warren—the legendary investigators whose work inspired The Conjuring Universe. This isn’t just another retelling. It’s a rare, intimate look behind the veil and behind the headlines—into the real hauntings, the family bond, and the lifelong love story that gave birth to a paranormal legacy. Hear the truth behind the infamous Annabelle doll, the Perron family haunting, and other chilling cases that Hollywood tried to capture—but only the Warrens truly lived. What was it like to grow up surrounded by haunted objects, spiritual warfare, and two of the most iconic figures in the supernatural world? Find out, as we explore the humanity behind the horror… and the enduring power of belief.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (01:15):
And hello everybody, and welcome back to Magical Journey Podcast.
I am your host, Daniel Ian Kahun And before we
get started tonight, I want to first of all, give
a shout out to Mystical Match Mystical Mountain Creations, while

(01:38):
once again thank you always keep hydrated. Thanks to you
guys that said, how'd you guys like the new intro? Short,
sweet and simple, right, No extended countdown, no seriously long crap.

(02:04):
So that's kind of where we're going to go with
opening from here on out, is to make sure that
we keep things as simple as possible on all of
those levels. All right, tonight, First of all, if you
were joining us for the first time, don't forget to

(02:27):
like share and hit that subscribe button. I know that
a large majority of you guys who are watching the
show are not subscribing. It costs nothing to subscribe. It's
a very simple process. You just hit the button and
you're there. I'd appreciate it. It helps a lot. Thank

(02:50):
you guys for watching the show, for keeping yourselves informed,
for making me part of your your world. Tonight, I
wanted to I want to tell you guys that tonight
personally for me is a big deal because growing up,

(03:16):
one of the people who really impacted my life early
on is someone who we're going to be talking about tonight,
and that's Lorraine Warren. Because she was the first person
who I ever met who had stimular things going on
in her world that I did, who gave me a

(03:39):
positive person, a positive statement to cling onto about who
I was and who what I'm about in this part
of my life. So when the tides kind of reeled
into me, uh bumping into Chris, her grandson online, it

(04:05):
really opened up a moment for me. So getting him
on the show tonight was something that I worked, I
worked for because it fell in It fell into place
in a very magical way, very magical way. So I'm

(04:27):
not going to spend a lot of time talking about this,
but I want because I want to bring Chris on,
but I want you guys to give a warm welcome
to this grandson of Ed and Lorraine Warren. Chris mc mckennall,

(04:48):
this is what you know, what.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
You just asked.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
I just asked. This is why I just asked, because
I knew I was going to look. I don't even
know how to pronounce my own name half the time,
so Chris, as if we need a big introduction here,
some people do. Actually, of course, tell us a little
bit about you who you are, and throw in a

(05:22):
little bit of promotion about what you're doing too.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Okay, I don't expect people to know who I am.
It's very silly to think that you're famous just for
being a grandson. But my name is Chris McKinnel. I'm
the director of the Warren Legacy Foundation for Paranormal Research,
which is an organization started with my grandmother about twelve
years ago when the first Conjuring movie came out. We

(05:49):
wanted to go global and I wanted to keep their
name alive. I've been doing this work now for forty
four years, since I was sixteen years old. With my grandfather,
I have lived in over a hundred places around the world,
investigate how the paranormal manifests, how different cultures and different

(06:11):
spiritual paths deal with that those manifestations, and also studying
the mechanisms behind the phenomena. I don't accept the superstitious
explanations that we put on these things. I look for
more grounded explanations. It doesn't mean I don't believe in

(06:33):
the phenomena. It doesn't mean I don't believe in spirits.
I do absolutely. I have interacted with many, many, many
spirits in my life, including my grandma other But it
does mean that although I know the phenomena is real,
I am still a skeptic when it comes to how
we explain it. So, in a nutshell, that's kind of

(06:59):
who I am. And I'm currently living in South America
studying the ways that people work with the paranormal here.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Oh, yeah, because that's You've done a lot of global like,
You've got a lot of places.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah. I spent two years in the poorest country in
the world in West Africa, a country called Mali, under
a military dictatorship, studying animism while I was with the
Peace Corps. I've walked the streets of Cairo and the
City of the Dead and had encounters with jin. I've

(07:41):
studied with the Bali Lama and hiked the Himalayas and
learned in the temples. I've been blessed. I've you know,
I hiked the jungles of Colombia and worked with the
Kogi people and learned their ways of dealing with things.
And it amazes me because every one of them has

(08:04):
effective ways of dealing with the paranormal. It isn't as
though one religion has the instruction manual on how to
do it.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
I don't think that matters. It's all about your connection
with God and your faith and your focus that makes
it work.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Wow. Yeah. And one of my moms is that she
is familiar with you and that you are amazing. That's
you know, I got to agree, Denise, very amazing. Let's
talk for a moment before we get two off track
with where I want to go with this. Let's talk

(08:52):
about your grandparents for a moment, because obviously they were
kind of responsible for well, your current situation of being alive, and.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
A lot more and a lot more than they were
my inspiration and and my mentors obviously exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
So what were some of your earliest memories of your grandparents?

Speaker 2 (09:19):
My very earliest one, uh was being lot in the
museum when I was three years old and my grandfather
being in the back room hearing me it was nighttime,
hearing me screaming, and he came running and got me
out of there immediately. That was my first memory. I mean,

(09:41):
the man was only he wasn't even forty years old.
You know, he was still a kid as far as
I'm concerned. I mean, I'm six, right, right.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Was there? You know? That's I think that's one of
the things that you know when we because a lot
of people are like equate unfortunately, e quate the characters
in the movie with the reality. We know that that's
not necessarily true obviously, but this is the exposure a

(10:16):
lot of people have had. Unfortunately. I have to say
that that. Honestly, you could tell in the interviews and
so forth that they were very connected, but it wasn't

(10:36):
like I mean, looking back at times like that, a
grandfather was not exactly the great romantic either in some
way very stern and very very.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh no, no, no, no, not stern, no grounded.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
Is that the way I'm looking at it.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
You see when you see him getting angry on film,
that's because somebody's challenging him and his beliefs. He knows
these things are real. He didn't. He didn't necessarily deal
with it as well as he should have or could have.
But no, when they he was a joker. My grandfather,
he loved the practical jokes, and my grandmother was far

(11:23):
sweeter in the real world than you would ever imagine
from her videos, and I know the videos she looks
adorable and sweet as can be. She was never somebody
serious at home, you know. I mean, she wasn't a
joker ever, but she was just dripping with joy and

(11:44):
happiness and love. You walk into the house and, oh, dear,
would you like a grilled cheese and tomato sandwich? I
can make it for you right now. Would you like
a cake? Make that for you? It's like, Graham, don't worry,
sit relax. I just want to see you, you.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Know, tell them the restaurant story. I love the restaurant story.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Wait, I'm sorry, which one are we talking about?

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Where you guys went into the restaurant and.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Oh my god, that story. Look, you have to understand
that it's not the happy story that Daniel's making this
out to be. My fiance had just died, and my
mother and my grandmother insisted on my going out to

(12:33):
dinner at outback steakhouse the night before the funeral. And
my grandmother gets up and she starts walking around every
table in the restaurant. Hello, DearS, how are you. My
name's Loreene Warren. I'm here because my grandson his fiance
just died of cancer. I was like, Graham, what are
you doing? But that's what she was. You couldn't go

(12:57):
into the grocery store for eggs without her being in
there for an hour and a half. She would talk
to everyone.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
The wisdom and that though, was that she probably were
very distracted at the time and weren't so in your
head about things. Yeah, And that's the beauty of it.
It's like, this is the thing. This is why I
was laughing because it's like, it's beautiful wisdom. And that's

(13:26):
the way that a lot of people. I feel like that.
I've talked to people who met her. That's what they
came up and came away with was that there was
a beautiful, simple, perfect wisdom about her.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Beautiful, simple, perfect that'll yeah, that's my grandmother.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah. So I do have to ask you, though, what's
up with the chickens?

Speaker 2 (14:00):
You know, my grandmother loves her chickens still does. I
know she's gone, but she's not. But it was always animals,
didn't matter what the animal was. They both of them,
my grandparents both rescued animals all the time. Actually, my
favorite story of my grandfather, it was a winter'sday he

(14:22):
had driven past. He had seen this poor dog wrapped
around a tree with a chain in a muddy, icy puddle,
a long hair just covered in mud. It obviously had
not been allowed in the house for a long time.
And he walks up, he unhooks it, goes to the

(14:43):
front door, bangs on it. The guy comes to the
door and he says, you just lost your dog, And
he brought it home and he named the dog Duke,
after John Wayne, great dog. I loved him. But my
grandmother there was this horrible white chicken that haunted our

(15:03):
neighborhood or her neighborhood. He was called Einstein because he
had the shock of feathers on top of his head.
He looked just like a chicken Einstein, and he would
attack anybody until one day a dog got him and
mangled him very badly, hurt his back. He couldn't take
care of himself, and my grandmother decides she's going to
take care of this animal, and for a year she

(15:26):
uses an eye dropper full of gatorade, red gatorade, dripping
it into his mouth to keep him alive. He had
red all down his chest. He looked like a bloody
evil but once he was better, she built this beautiful
home out on the porch. He came in at night,

(15:47):
and all of a sudden, this hen shows up, jumps
out of a tree and joins the throoster, Einstein. She
called Miss Hannah. They ended up having two roosters, sons.
My grandmother went out and got them mates as well,
and she kept them right up until the time she died.

(16:10):
It was amazing, and she kept eating chickens. I was like, Grandma,
what are you doing well? That doesn't matter, dearness.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
This was one of the things that like really were
those of us who were going through very dark times,
and I was going through a very dark time in
my early years. This is one of the things that
we looked to her for was even though you didn't

(16:40):
always see these things in the interviews, those of us
who knew that there was more, much more there, and
she projected that are and she outwarded to people. She
knew what she was doing. This is what I'm saying.
Very intelligent woman, very her wisdom and her intelligence was

(17:03):
way beyond what you saw on the big screen when
you were watching her on Oprah whatever. I can't remember
all the shows she was on at one.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Point that Jesse Rafael was something Downy Morton Downey Jr. Yeah,
terrible programs back in the eighties, you know, but they were.
They were on MERV Griffin, they were on Mike Douglas,
probably Phil Downny Hugh, I don't remember for sure. They

(17:35):
were on so many of those programs.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
The Tonight's Show, Oh yeah, yeah, the Tonight Show, which
Johnny Carson would ban people from his show a lot
of times. But they were on more than once.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Right, I couldn't say for sure they were my grandparents.
I wasn't following them in the media fair enough.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
I can see how that goes. So what was because
they did not just like at first they were not
very well known. Oh no, they there's not unless you

(18:23):
are lucky enough to really find good information. There's not
a lot about like the time period where you know,
the movies tried to glamorize these the first couple of
cases they were on, but very few people knew who
they were at that point.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
They started in forty seven, nineteen forty seven, and they
created the New England Society for Psychic Research in nineteen
fifty two. That and about nineteen fifty three is when
they started to believe in demons. They didn't even believe
in those at first. Everything was just to ghost. They
had been you know, they'd been exposed to it, that themselves,

(19:04):
they had witnessed these things, and they wanted to know more,
especially in my grandfather. And one thing I warned people
about when you look at these old videos of my grandparents,
when you read their books, which they never wrote. You know,
some of those books were written well by other writers.
Others are garbage, to be quite honest. But you're only

(19:28):
seeing a snapshot in time. You're not seeing where they
ended up by the nineteen nineties. So keep that in
mind when you're looking at these things. They're not instruction
manuals for you. That would be like looking at documentaries
on medical science from the nineteen seventies and eighties and
going out and trying to practice. You shouldn't. That's not

(19:51):
the way you should learn.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Exactly, exactly and now, unlike then, there's a lot of
different ways to learn. Yes, when let me emphasize this
for you guys. When these two young people started out

(20:14):
believe it or not, and the Rain were young once,
they didn't always they didn't just come onto the scene
as somebody's parent and somebody's grandparent. These young people came
into an environment into doing what they do at a
time when you didn't have a lot of printed material,

(20:36):
you didn't have online classes to go to. You learned
the hard way.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Trial and error. The first twenty five years of their career,
nobody knew who they were, no one. They worked in
complete animity. That's not quite fair. They had their first
lecture in around sixty eight, so that would have been
about twenty years after they got started, and they loved that.

(21:03):
They really enjoyed that, and that's kind of how they
started learning. If we get out there, then we can
start helping people more and reach people who need help.
By the time the Linley Street case broke in seventy
two or seventy three, that was in Bridgeport, Connecticut, where
I was born, they really leaned into the publicity as

(21:29):
a means of letting people know they were there to help.
Sometimes they also use publicity to shame the church into
helping because many archdiocees will not help unless you force
them to. And being Catholic, I mean, don't get me wrong,
it's important I emphasize. My grandparents worked with every religion

(21:51):
in the world. But if you're a Catholic, they're going
to work with the Catholic Church if they can. If
they can't, they'll go with Methodis or Lutheran.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Right right. And for those of you who are watching
the links below, the link to the let me pull
that back up again. The Warren Files is definitely a

(22:24):
very good resources to go on and check out some
very very good information on there. You have, actually you
have collected a good are you still working on that?
The Warren Files not so much right now.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
We're working on a documentary right now, but we will eventually.
It's just I had so many good people offer so
much good information. Some of it's a little dated, especially
my own work, because the stuff that I was doing
ten years ago, i've learned more since then. This is

(23:06):
a field of research. We were constantly adapting our theories
and our beliefs in our understanding based on new evidence.
If you don't, well, you're not doing anybody any service.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Right right, Well, I think that's one of the things
that is very important. That was one of the things
I learned from them myself too, is you don't stay
in one spot, you don't always refuse you don't refuse
to see new evidence. You evolve, right, Because I got

(23:45):
to tell you when I first started out, I walked
in like any young teen. I was like nineteen twenty
years old, you know, investigator, all like cocky, thinking that
I knew everything there was to know.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
I remember that person, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing
how much we know when we're young. Yeah, as we get.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Older, exactly exactly. And the first couple of investigations I
went on, I was sure that I would have the
answer right away, and I knew that I knew. That
was my mindset. About halfway through the first hour, the

(24:31):
first thirty minutes of that investigation, I was like, I
thought to myself, remember when you were watching TV the
other day and Ed said this about that, and how
he was changing his thoughts on stuff because of that.

(24:54):
This is what he was talking about. He probably ran
across something like this that didn't make any sense. It
went against the grain of everything that he thought he knew,
and he had to conform to the idea that he
didn't know as much as he thought. And that's where
I was at at that moment, was like, oops, what

(25:17):
you do now?

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, you know, it's amazing because I look back in
my early cases where you know, I was told by
my grandfather this was demonic and that was it. That
was my explanation. I moved on. But now I look
back and I'm shaking my head saying, you know what,
I wish I could go back and ask questions because
I don't know what that was, and I to this

(25:40):
day they're like the Smirl house. I don't know what
that was, and I don't have the ability to go
back and investigate it again. So what levitated me over
those stairs?

Speaker 1 (25:54):
You know?

Speaker 2 (25:54):
What made this? What made those pig noises? You know
what slammed the door? What? There's so many things that
happen in that household that I cannot explain, and unfortunately
I can't go back to find.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Out right right, I Mean that's one of the things too,
that that you it's really hard for people to understand.
I it's very rare that you can go back to something,
even if you want to to re experience or to

(26:37):
to learn more. Those experiences are very few and far between.
There's places that I would love to go back to
they oh yeah, you know now that I know this,
you know, or even be able to like take better
notes on or whatever. But I think and let's let's

(27:02):
dive into this for a moment. The the the movie
is coming up soon, the new movie, the last one
in the series. You don't get me wrong. I love
the movies. I actually have the entire universe collection of them.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
You got me beat. I don't know many of them.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
I like it because I like the artwork involved in
what they did. I like their interpretations. You know, they
have just enough of truth in their two be able
to say, Okay, so this this part is something factual,

(27:49):
you know, using the character of Frenchy in the movie,
that was actually you know, unfortunately that was a part
of a very terrible case, a terrible case. But it
did actually happen, not the way that they's nothing.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Wait, wait, let's not mislate lead people here. Nothing in
the movie The nun is real. Nothing except in the
in the credits, you see the exorcism of the man
we learn is Maurice Theield, right, that was real. I
was there for that. I'm the guy protecting the bishop
during that exorcism. But my grandfather was actually having his

(28:31):
heart attack during that exorcism. It wasn't like in the
movies where it happens during David Glotzell's exorcism. They switched
things around, they change details. The annabel movies are complete fantasies.
Annabel of course is real. It's been in my life
since I was five, but it's not It's not anything

(28:57):
like the movies at all.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Right, But that's what what what I really want to
get to is that you know, they touch on just
enough of stuff that's real. Give you okay, so they
at least borrowed from reality to get a storyline. Artistically,

(29:22):
the movies are very good obviously factually, I mean, the
news isn't even real. So what are we talking about?
What I do want to talk Let's let's talk about
We're going to talk about a couple of things. So, uh,

(29:42):
because this is going to bring it into where I
want to go next. You talked about Annabelle, and I
wanted I want to get a little bit of your
of you you're insight on the truth behind annabel because

(30:04):
there's a lot of garbage online about that right now.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yes, the oh there is Annabel Is on tour right now.
I think that's dangerous as hell. I've spoken out against it.
It certainly not made me popular with my family, but
it's something I know for a fact my grandmother is
not happy with at all. She has made it clear,
not just to me, but to several other very gifted people.

(30:33):
Annabelle is not what people think it is. It's not
some all powerful demon that is causing fires on plantations
and the prisoners escape and starting tornadoes, none of that.
But if you are close to annabel and if you're
interacting with that energy, it can attach to you and

(30:54):
it can hurt you. That's a reality. Annabel is not
a demon possessed doll. I know that's the story, and
that is what my grandparents believed with all their hearts,
but they were looking at this phenomena through their own
Catholic beliefs. I learned that religion is a wonderful tool

(31:20):
for dealing with the paranormal, but it is a terrible
tool for examining the paranormal. What happened as far as
I understand it, and I may change my views in
five years with more information, but current, my current understanding
is this that two young nursing students owned this doll.

(31:44):
I had been given to them by one of the
nurse's mothers. A woman named Debbie owned the doll. She
loved this thing, carried it down to breakfast every day,
talked to it as if it was alive. Loved this doll,
put so much energy into it. The girls did, and
one day the doll levitated its hands up, her arms

(32:06):
up onto the kitchen counter and they thought, oh, there
must be a ghost in it. Let's have a seance.
So they contacted someone that they thought was a talented medium.
And this is one of the reasons I don't trust
psychics without any without evidence to back it up. This
through a series of seances, this woman came up with

(32:29):
the idea that it was a ghost named Dannabelle Higgins,
a little girl who had died in front of the
house and was just looking for someone to love her.
Of course, two nursing students, they're going to latch onto
that story and give it even more love, more energy.
They bought it a bracelet that's still on to this day,

(32:50):
and it started acting like a little girl. They would
go to work at the Hartford Hospital and when they
came home, the doll wasn't where they left it. It
was playing hide and seek with them. It was leaving
notes on parchment paper with crayon, saying things like miss
me want to play. But as they started to feel

(33:12):
like they're constantly being watched, they felt creeped out and
the energy started to change, and that's when the doll
started being scarier. They had started leaving messages like help me.
One afternoon, Debbie's boyfriend was sleeping on the couch and

(33:36):
he woke up and he said, I just had a
dream that Annabel was crawling up me and was choking
me to death, they said. He walked over to the doll,
which was sitting in a chair, picks it up, throws
it across the room and says, you're a stupid doll.
You couldn't urt anyone, And just like a child throwing
a tantrum, the doll reacted. It started shaking the walls,

(33:59):
pounding on the walls. The chair it had been sitting
in shot across the room, and the young man was
clawed across the chest. Now, of course everybody's terrified. They're
immediately getting hold of I want to say, Father Tibbalt, No,
that's wrong. I'm sorry. I can't remember his name, but

(34:21):
he was a Lutheran priest in Hartford. He happened to
know my grandparents, and they agreed to immediately go in.
When my grandfather was going in, even before he got there,
he said God would not allow a good child to
inhabit a doll, so he had already made a determination

(34:42):
without any evidence that this was not a child. I
have actually heard of cases where children will attach to
a doll as a means of staying close to their family,
so that turns out to not be true either. But
my grandmother, with her training, she felt that negative energy,

(35:03):
and this is how she taught me too. Anytime you
feel that heavy negative energy, oh that's demonic. So that's
what she decided it was. I think it's something called well,
it started out as something called a tulpa, which is
a spirit. It is a real spirit, don't get me wrong.
It's not a figment of anyone's imagination. But it is

(35:27):
a spirit created by living energy that then takes on
a life of its own, similar to the way a
poltergeist can sometimes manifest, and it is over time become
something known as an eggrigor, again a spirit created, but
this time through many people's beliefs. Today, millions of people

(35:50):
around the world are alternately terrified of this doll or
love this doll, and they're feeding energy all the time.
It's a chaotic mix, and I'm very worried about how
it's manifesting in people's lives. Even if this doll on
display is not the actual Antidelte and it may not be,

(36:17):
but if it's not, that doesn't really matter, because people
believe it is, and if they're a psychologically vulnerable person,
they can believe that they are going to be harmed
by it. And the people who are taking this doll
on tour don't really know what they're doing, and they're
pushing people up against the glass and having them touch

(36:40):
the glass. It's no, you don't do those things. My
grandfather made a famous sign positively do not open. And
they don't care because all they care about is making money.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah. Yeah, I gotta tell you when I found out
like Canna Bella is going to be if they haven't
already done it in in Kentucky, not.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
That was a while ago.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
I think was that a while ago? I know that
it was like going to be in an area that
was accessible for me to actually get to, and I said,
that's nice. Next because I just don't want to be
part of that. So now let's talk for a moment

(37:30):
about this case that the final chapter of the Conjuring
is based on. And there's a reason why I want
to do this because you were actually involved in this case.
Now correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't they didn't your

(37:51):
grandparents initially send you as somebody else?

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Well, they I'm pretty sure they were there before me,
but they didn't do the overnight work anymore. That they
sent the young guys to do that. And I was
in college at the time, in my last year of school,
and I only had a motorcycle. It was wintertime. So
the poor young man that I had picked, he had

(38:18):
no experience whatsoever, but he wanted to go. So I
took this young man named Doug to this incredibly haunted
house and I was there probably three times, I'm guessing
never with my grandparents, and I had plenty of experiences.

(38:39):
I don't remember how the case got started or things
like that. I wasn't there for the resolution. All I
really remember is my own experiences. I mean, I've had
ten thousand cases, or about ten and a half thousand
by now, and it's hard for me to keep them

(38:59):
all straight.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Apologize ten thousand cases. Okay, I can't. I can't kid
like what I ate yesterday straight with.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
So that's how I feel.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, Denise did ask a question that's very interesting. Does
Annabelle need an exorcism to get rid of that negative energy?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
You cannot do an exorcism on anything other than a person.
So there are binding rituals you can do. And for
years my grandparents didn't know how to do that, and
Annabelle sat in a in a rocking chair in the basement.
But after a couple of bad experiences, they learned, and

(39:51):
that's why the dollar was put into that box with
a crucifix over the top, with blessed salt, with I
think Saint Benedict metal's placed around it and a rosary inside.
All is a way of binding the energy and protecting
people from it. The fact that we call this a
museum is a misnomer. It's the worst part of my

(40:15):
grandparents' legacy because it was never open to the general public.
It was always a place to protect people from those energies.
It's a prison, and now everything is off on a
tour and I'm worried about people. That's not what it's
meant for. Maybe for teaching, if you have a place

(40:38):
you can put it where there's heavy glass and long
distances between the objects, and if you've got information on
each of the cases, it pertains to fine. I can
see that, but not the way they're doing it. This
is a craven money grab. It's a carnival. I've had

(40:58):
people go there and tell me about it, and the
way they're pushing people through and just talking whatever garbage
they're selling, you can't take it seriously. They're cheapening something
very very real and very dangerous.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Exactly exactly. That's what I got out of it too.
And before we go any further, I want to encourage you, guys,
those of you that if you've made it this far,
leave me a comment telling me what you think about
Annabelle and about this whole touring the doll thing, because
there's more than just Annabelle on this tour. And that's

(41:42):
the other thing people are unaware of whenever they go
to these things, is not only are they dealing with
the energy of Annabelle, but they're dealing with other things
that they don't even have a clue what it is
that that is going to be there with with this
all exactly, So it's kind of a double edged sort.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
But you know, I can say the same thing about
people who want to go into wanted asylums or prisons hospitals.
If you're one of the unlucky ones who's energy is
attractive to one of those disturbed souls, you might have
somebody coming home with you it. You know, millions of

(42:25):
people play with Wuji boards every year and they don't
get affected. The board itself is nothing, but your intention
to connect with spirit is everything. And if your negative
energy is out there, you're much more vulnerable. And that's
what I try to warn people.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
About exactly exactly. And I think it's very important for
people to understand. Learning to crawl before you start walking
if you want to do these things, is very important.
Solearning about protecting yourself, learning about what learning about you

(43:05):
is very important because if you don't know you well
enough to know, if you get in this situation how
to protect yourself on not to react to things and
so forth, and you are going to have a very
bad day most likely, because ignorance is definitely a doorway

(43:28):
to letting in the bad stuff. Ignorance is a very
good way of doing it.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
So here and there's one people. You know, why I
do presentations is because I want to arm people with
the right tools to protect themselves and to protect others.
The worst thing is to go into someone's home not
knowing what you're doing, stir up trouble, and then leave.

(43:54):
I can't imagine a worse sin. Well in the paranormal world, I.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Suppose, right, right, So I brought up Annabel and this
the one case there the smirls, two smirls to bring
in a very important thing here and kind of like

(44:20):
bring us to the next part of this interview is, yes,
we love your grandparents. We appreciate and absolutely adore their work.
That there is a whole new legacy that they've left behind,
which is what you really are about in a sense,

(44:43):
because your work is your own thing inspired by their work.
But you've got some ideas that have advanced because well, frankly,
science have advanced since the early days and even the

(45:04):
latter days of your grandmother. So also a little bit
about some of the things that really separate what you're
doing now from what we know of the past of
the Warren family.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Well, I don't know how new this is. I mean,
I did start this with my grandmother twelve years ago,
and I have been doing this my whole life. But
I was lucky. I had two amazing mentors. My grandparents
didn't have anybody at all. They looked up to one
man in England named Harry Price, but he was already

(45:46):
gone by the time they were actually doing any real work.
The last days of Harry were in the nineteen fifties.
We got to meet him in the nineteen eighties, but
he was a ghost by then, so it wasn't quite
the same. But I was able to take what they

(46:07):
taught me and the tools they gave me, and the
outlook they gave me and move forward with it. That's
all I've done. It's a continuation of their work. It
may sound different, and it is. It's radically different. I
don't believe in demons. I also have done exorcisms that

(46:27):
have been successful. My grandfather didn't believe he could do
an exorcism. I agree with him. He probably couldn't. He
was a far more earthy individual than I am. But
but I do believe in ghosts. I do interact with
ghosts the same as my grandmother. I take great joy

(46:50):
in helping a spirit to pass over. Or to helping
them with unresolved issues and unfinished business. That that's a
beautiful time for me. I don't use the term ghost
hunter like my grandparents did. I don't hunt people, so
I have an ethical reason for not liking that particular term.

(47:13):
I consider myself, I guess a paranormal social worker. I
help both the living and the dead equally, and I
will do whatever I can to help someone, even if
it's not paranormal. I've learned while I learned on the Maurice,
Theial case, the French Shie case, is there are underlying

(47:35):
issues that make a person vulnerable that may not be
there for the average person. But if we don't deal
with those problems, whether it's domestic violence, drug abuse, PTSD,
mental illness, whatever it might be, we have to deal
with that as well. Otherwise, yes, I can close that

(47:57):
spiritual doorway, it's going to reopen because all of the
things that make you vulnerable are still there. That was
one major change that took my grandfather till the late
eighties to really accept. He from the nineteen seventies with
parapsychology getting started. He hated that he just he didn't

(48:21):
want to hear about psychology, and when I got into
psychology in college, he was not happy about it. But
over time he learned. That's the thing that people don't
know about my grandparents. They were willing to change completely.
My grandfather. When I grew up, I wasn't allowed to
listen to rock and roll music because that was the

(48:44):
devil's music. According to my grandfather, you know barely. Barry
Manilow was the best I could get. Conway Twitty Boy.
I was not popular at school when I had my
radio show. But my grandfather used to think that witchcraft

(49:05):
and Satanism were identical. It took him a long time
to get past that prejudice and understand differently. And I've
learned far more about that subject matter than he ever did. Really.
For instance, did you know that there is a cave
in Australia where they practiced the same ritual for twelve

(49:27):
thousand years until the eighteen hundreds the Aborigine people. Why
would they perform this ritual if it wasn't actually working.
This is evidence that that ritual can focus intention to
a tangible outcome.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Right right. Denise has asked another question that's kind of
kind of important, I think, and Aria Hey how do
you know when people are real or fake? I mean,
is it an energy that you pick up mine? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (50:11):
The truth is up. Until in my twenties, I was
reading or is all the time, and people would ask me, oh,
give me a reading, and I would love to do
it because it made me feel special. So I started
scaring the crap out of them because I saw things
they didn't want me to see. And I learned to
shut myself down except for my work. I have been

(50:32):
taken advantage of so many times in my life because
I will not let the evil of this world make
me cynical. And I have lost everything I owned three
times because I trusted people repeatedly, and I've lost everything.
I live out of a backpack today, and I'm happy

(50:54):
with that. I don't have a problem with that. Things
can become chains to hold you back free, but I don't.
I think today I'm a little more open to using
my abilities to just make sure I'm dealing with somebody honest,
but I still hesitate. I'm learning to listen to myself

(51:18):
more and trust myself more. I've always I used to
just want to trust everyone until they give me a
reason not to. But that's just foolish. It's not it's
not the right way to do things.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah, I've learned that the hard way. Unfortunately you So
the Warren Foundation, the Warren Legacy Foundation, which the inspiration
for that obviously came a lot from from your grandmother.

(51:54):
What exactly do you do with that? What is what
is the I guess what my question is really is
what's the point of the of the foundation.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
We help people who believe they are being troubled by
the paranormal number one, and we do that all over
the world. We've got good people all over the world.
But well, also it's education. One of the greatest gifts
my grandfather gave me was helping me learn how to
overcome my fear. And I know that fear is the

(52:28):
real enemy. Ignorance is the enemy. When you hear footsteps
in the hallway or when your keys go missing, that
doesn't mean the devil is after you. It means your
grandmother is trying to get your attention and say, hey,
look over here, I'm right here. I'm letting you know
I'm here. But your fear takes that beautiful experience, it

(52:49):
turns it into something negative. So education is a big
part of what we do as well. I think of
the paranormal as something very empowering, very hopeful. Yes it
can be deadly, just like electricity can be deadly, but
electricity can also light up the world, and I think

(53:13):
the paranormal can do the same. When we let over
our fear, I believe nothing will be able to stop.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Us exactly exactly because that is where you know, and
I really want to bring this home in a way
for people in my area, because you guys got to
understand that there is a very big story that you're

(53:42):
taught a lot in church about Jesus walking on water
and one of his disciples getting all excited about wanting
to go out there and do it too, got the
first step on and then started going down right away

(54:03):
because he realized, oh, I'm walking on water. I can't
do this. Fear and doubt costs a really great opportunity
with that.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
So, yeah, you know, we.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Live in a world where we where a lot of
people try to get you to choose fear on a
daily basis. Fear is counterproductive to everything. So this is
one of the reasons why I really like the idea
of the Warrant Foundation. The education absolutely important, learning and

(54:42):
teaching people about how to overcome the fairy tales, the
dark stuff that we've been taught you guys. Also, you
say you mentioned you help people who are in need.

(55:05):
I do know that there's information on the website how
to contact Actually, Pam just pulled that up for me,
didn't you how to contact folks there too if you're
seeking help with any type of paranormal activity that's like

(55:30):
your control to deal.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
And you should I mean maybe I shouldn't mention this,
but you know about this as well. We also have
a psychic support group online for people who were gifted,
and all of our services are free and confidential. Now, yes,
if you sign up for a zoom session, those are
not I do have to pay my rent, so presentations

(55:54):
that I do, I do charge for those. But for
any help of any sort, that's always going to be free.
And we do have a psychic support group with over
nine hundred members around the world who are there to
share what they know or to learn how to deal
with their anxiety from the energies they pick up, learn

(56:15):
how to ground themselves, learn how to take back control
of their lives. And I think it's a very supportive
environment and I invite anybody who's gifted to reach out
to me and I'll be happy to share that link
with them.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I do want to point out too, that in the
description below there is a link to be able to
sign up for Zoom. I would really encourage you guys
to do that, especially if you want well anything, anything

(56:53):
that you want to know, and this presentation will be there.
Trust me, I watched the other day myself. It was
worth every moment of it, and just it's it's a
very good first step into getting involved finding out more

(57:15):
information about the Warren Foundation.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
I consider it like a psyche one on one course.
It definitely really is only the introduction there. I can't
distill decades of knowledge into a two hour meeting, but
it's a good start and it leads us to other
presentations that we might want to do later, either you know,

(57:40):
ghost stories, which I know a lot of people just
want to hear ghost stories. And for those who are
really interested in the work, we want to expand and
offer some real graduate level kinds of presentations.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Right that is That's one of the things too. They
the Waring Foundation is continuously there's there's an application process
to go through for this but they're continuously looking for
people who want to be part of the foundation.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
You have to have experience, you have to be well
and humble. We're looking for people who are doing this
not for the clicks and likes, but because this is
God's work. I don't care if you're a Pagan, if
you're Jewish, if you're Hindu or Muslim. We we embrace
all spiritual paths. As the Hindu proverb says, there are

(58:43):
many paths up the mountain. It's only the fool running
around the bottom saying you're going the wrong way that
never gets any closer to the top. So if you
look at our logo, it's got many different religious symbols
all around the world, because just as my grandparents taught me,
they all work, and we want to embrace everybody and

(59:05):
help everybody, regardless of their religion.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Exactly exactly. The other thing I want to point out
is my personal experience with the support group is that
they are very kind and they're very supportive. As a
matter of fact, there's a couple of new mods at
least in there, or poor new that are you know,

(59:32):
and they are already on the ball in there getting
to know people responding to people's questions, answers comments right away.
So that is a resource definitely if you, I would

(59:57):
encourage you. If you are somebody who who is gifted
and you whether you're you just found out, whether you're questioning,
maybe you know what's going on in your life.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Or maybe you know a lot and you'd like to
share it exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Then then reach out and find out about because I'm
going to tell you trying to go it alone is
not the best answer always. Okay, we don't need to
live in a solitary world all of our lives. This
is one of the things that Lorraine taught me at

(01:00:37):
an early age for being her was your boom, I'm
out here. I'm telling you guys that I'm out here.
I'm a real person. See me and understand it. Would like, oh, well,
if you know this sweet lady who's probably not as
tall and you know, should definitely not what was it?

(01:01:00):
I was like, I was heading towards five eleven, like,
so she's definitely not that tall and definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Sure by v I'm guessing she wasn't short, but she
was just didn't an elegant, beautiful sweet yeah angel, she
was my angel and yet she.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Was bold enough to come forward and say, here I am,
this is what I could do well.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
I think my grandfather had a lot to do with that.
She learned early on to be quiet. But he one
thing about my grandfather, the man was never quiet.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
True, true. They were definitely a It was a story.
It was a story that. Yes, the movies definitely glamorize
things a lot, but if you ever got to see

(01:02:02):
or if you ever get to see the interviews, you
see it in their look at each other. You see
how they relate to each other and how they bounce
off of each other. In the interviews. It was there
is a magic there. It was meant to be.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Although I here's an amusing thing though in the seventies
when they were starting to do interviews, they used to
step on each other's all on each other all the
time for that microphone is like Graham, grahams would you
just let each other talk? I mean, I'm ten years old.

(01:02:44):
What am I going to say?

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I can just imagine what that. So. The other thing
I want to encourage you guys about if you are
if you are someone, because I know some of you
have had experience, is where you've actually you met the
Warrens at some point in your lives. Chris share is
some very very good photos from time to time on

(01:03:14):
Facebook as well. The Christmas photos are probably my favorite.
If you get an opportunity follow in, you'll see some
things from time to time on there that will make
your heart sing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
If you go to my Facebook page, there's an entire
album of over two hundred photos of my grandparents. So
there's plenty of great photos for you to take a
look at. By the way, the website I don't think
has come up is Warrenfiles dot com or Warren Legacy
Foundation dot com and just go there if you need
help or if you'd like to apply to the foundation.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Definitely, definitely. So as we're starting to round out tonight,
I want to ask you, is there anything that we
haven't touched on that you really wanted to bring up tonight?

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Well, I think the first thing I want to say is,
if you're interested in this work, do the groundwork first,
the foundational work first. Learn about psychology, learn about quantum physics,
learn about the people that you're going to be helping.
Half of your job is figuring it out. Half. Don't

(01:04:36):
ever go into a home and say, oh, you've got
a demon number one. It's a culturally loaded term that
has no meaning. One thing I've learned in my travels
around the world is these things will always manifest according
to your cultural and spiritual beliefs.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Not.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Always as beels above or whatever. If you're not Christian,
and if nobody Christian has been in that area, then
that manifestation will never be Christian. It's going to be
whatever the people are there. And that says more about

(01:05:17):
us and our power to manifest our fears and what
we can do when we let go of fears. If
you can have curses, you can have miracles. So I
think that's an important thing to keep in mind. Let
go of the fear, go into it with humility. Remember this,

(01:05:37):
according to NASA, there are more living worlds in the
universe than grains of sand on Earth. Be comfortable with
your ignorance because humanity, we are storytellers. We want to
put a label, slap a label on every single thing
that we encounter. But the truth is we don't know,

(01:05:58):
and we have to accept that. You cannot immediately say,
oh my god, it's that, because it probably isn't that.
Whatever that is, take your time, learn and do everything
you can to empower the people you're there to help,

(01:06:19):
you know, minimize their fear, give them tools to raise
the energetic vibrations of the home. And here's one important
piece of advice for anyone listening. Never ever, ever investigate
your own home. You are going to put all of
your energy into that. You're going to manifest something powerful

(01:06:41):
because you can't leave it, and then you're going to
jump at every single little noise assuming that it's paranormal. Yes,
you might have something paranormal going on in the house,
but as soon as you believe in that, then everything
you start to blame everything on the paranormal, and it isn't.
Most of the tough things that happen around you are

(01:07:02):
perfectly natural. It's the squirrel in the gutter, not some
demon playing drums on the roof.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Exactly exactly. I think it's very important for people to understand.
Probably the hardest thing right off the bat that I
learned was do like you said, don't jump to conclusions,
don't assume you know everything. Be well informed before you

(01:07:35):
go into some place, know what you need to know,
don't go in with a blank notebook.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
And then don't let a psychic lead an investigation. Ever
they let them go through, let them do their walk through,
let them pick write down all their findings, or record
all their findings, but you don't even look at those
until you've done your initial investigation. You do not want
research bias there are. You have a team, Let that

(01:08:06):
team do its job, and then compare notes with the
psychic's notes and see if there's any overlap, because even
the best psychic is only write sixty percent of the time.
And that's something my grandmother taught me. I seventy percent,
but she's right right exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
You know, I do want to emphasize, Okay, we're not
trying to minimalize the obviously, because that would be kind
of self if aaming and a sense for me to
sit there and try to minimalize the importance of people
with psychic kids.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
I'm a medium, for God's sake. I just got from
without evidence.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
Right right, you know, because there's a lot of people
out there. You know, I've seen this time and time again.
There's a lot of people out there that will set
there and I've had some on my show. You guys
have watched the interviews. If you followed me, from the
beginning that will sit there and tell you that they
are one percent right, and they are more than what

(01:09:18):
we should be claiming we are.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
So you can have a night that you're one hundred percent,
but you're going to have night three or zero percent as.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Well, right, right, And that's the thing that we have
to we have to be we have to be rational,
and we have to think logically about things. Your car
is not guaranteed to start just because you turn it on. No,

(01:09:47):
there's food for thought. Okay. Warren Foundation website, Pam, you
put that up just a moment ago.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
It's Warren Legacy dot com, Warren Legacy Foundation dot com,
warrenfiles dot com. Any of those will work. They'll get
you to the same place. Yes, Or you just look
for me on Facebook and I'll get you there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
There there it is. Okay, So there's the link to
the Warren Legacy Foundation. I cannot emphasize that enough Facebook.
You guys want to connect with Chris on Facebook for
those pictures, if nothing else, I promise you was worth it, Denise,

(01:10:32):
to answer your question, yes, I will. I will get
Chris back on He is a busy man. It's going
to get very busy coming up because of the movie.
I mean, I'm not in it, so no, but I mean,
let's be real, the movies really do the movies have

(01:10:56):
brought out a lot of attention to these cases. Ever again,
like that, you can even now, you can't turn on
to YouTube and not find something about the Conjuring House.
I just saw something on my YouTube p today about

(01:11:17):
the Conjuring House.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
You know what, I do have something I want to
share with you. Yeah, not go back and reinvestigate homes
where things have been closed. That's a terrible idea. My
grandparents this twenty eight days later crap that was about
it as being something my grandfather came up with. That's
bull crap. They never would have condoned going back into
places where they have solved the case. Because you're going

(01:11:42):
in there expressly to try to connect with the paranormal again,
you're opening a door again. It's an awful idea.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
It really is, really, really is. And my question for
that is, if somebody has a hill wound, are you
going to try to reopen it? Why would you do that?

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Exactly?

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
It's not really going to be beneficial to anybody. So
you know, again, I mean, if you're wanting to. If
you're wanting to do investigation or research, or preferably research

(01:12:32):
or beginners, I would suggest staying in that realm for
a while, researching the what you need to know, and
then doing research to find out what people have found
out already before you get involved in trying to dig
into your own stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Who you learn from. Don't go to the reality TV shows,
they're not real. Uh watch don't watch all of TikTok
videos and things like that. Look, it's gonna sound awful
and egotistical, but if you really want to get a
good idea, go ahead and take my presentation. At least

(01:13:13):
I can only promise you I will be as completely
honest as you heard me tonight. I am not somebody
who's sugarcoats. I'm not somebody who shades the truth. It's
important to me that I never ever saying anything that's
not one true And I will tell you if I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Know exactly exactly. And we're talking about a couple of
decades of history behind all this knowledge too, right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
Four and a half. Yeah, yeah, I never had a chance.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
I mean, given the circumstances, not really. One of the
things that I do want to before we close out,
because it's important for people to understand, like, because I
think a lot of people want to to base a

(01:14:12):
lot of what they know, especially people who are younger
and don't really never had the opportunity to really follow
your grandparents when they were alive. The reality of the
situation is is a lot most of the things that

(01:14:37):
you will be seeing in these movies are inaccurate. Oh yes,
case in point, I mean you or your mother's child.
How much of the stuff in the movies about your
mother is accurate?

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
None of it? My grandmother, My mother's not like it.
My mother has nothing at all to do with the paranormal.
She's terrified of it. She's avoided it her entire life.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
Zero zero of it is accurate information.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
I was five years old when Annabelle came home. My
mom was my mom.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
Yeah, yeah, So keep that in mind. It's entertainment is
what it is, peppered with like little bits of truth
here and there every once in a while. So but
always remember that behind all the lore, all of the fantasy,

(01:15:40):
all of the the Hollywood creation, there is truth, yes,
and seek that truth out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
I will say James Wan loved my grandmother, and he
respected her even before he met her. In the movie
in Sidius, the main female character is named Lorraine in
honor of my grandmother. His movies are a love letter
to my grandparents. They are not documentaries, but they are

(01:16:10):
made with love.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
I gotta tell you I've met and I still meet
people who will tell me in a heartbeat, I got
to meet Miss Lorraine, and she just changed my world
right there on the spot. And there is a large,
large group of us who are definitely still fans, who

(01:16:35):
too have a prient imagine that, who have a personal
story about where their lives became more enriched by having
her in the world. One of the things that I
want to want to stress to you guys is Chris's work.

(01:16:56):
And Chris is definitely, while still a product of that
genealogy and the product of that history and a product
of learning through these guys, definitely a separate entity his
own path. So while we have things we can learn

(01:17:20):
about the past, and we can enjoy the past, let's
walk in and embrace the future and the now. And
that's what's very important for us to learn tonight too. Again,
I will never ever forget the very first time I

(01:17:43):
experienced watching the Warrens on television and the Awakening. It
was in my life, and I know each one of
us will always have the first moment where we had
that a with with our connection. Okay, again, is what

(01:18:09):
is your let's talk about your closing thoughts, which not
what is your closing thoughts?

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
I would just say fear is the enemy that your
faith isn't about your your spiritual path. It's about putting
your faith in action with empathy and compassion for others.
If you do that, you're as close to God as
you'll ever hope to get. And when you put positive

(01:18:38):
energy into a home, even a home with a negative wanting,
my grandmother taught me this, you've already half solved the problem.
So clean your home, get rid of clutter, fill it
with laughter and joy, make love, play games together, watch comedies,
listen to music that makes you want to sing and dance.

(01:18:59):
That is going to do so much good in that home.
That is probably the best closing thought I can come
up with.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
It's a beautiful thought to leave us with tonight. Chris,
you'll if you'll hang out for just a moment, I'm
gonna close us out and then I will join you
in just a moment.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
Okay, thank you very much, and thank you to the
nice young ladies that helped this evening. I appreciate both
of you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
Thank you for coming on and giving us your time tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
My pleasure, my pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Okay, guys, Wow, I'm gonna tell you I feel like
this was a moment for me personally tonight and in
a big way to be able to kind of get
closure to a point, to be honest this with you
with some things and bring you, guys, a fresh look

(01:20:07):
into an area that has for the past few years,
since it is so conjuring franchise started, has kind of
grown into something interesting, we'll say interesting. You've got the resources.

(01:20:30):
I will have links to all the things on the
website and on Facebook, so please join us on there
and please follow Chris the foundation there on Facebook. Yes, Tom,

(01:20:58):
you are late. That's okay, you had a busy night.
I will talk with you guys again next week. I
have Oh I want to talk to you guys. Really
quickly just occurred to me that you know what, in
a month from now, August, now, the end of August

(01:21:22):
will be one year for me on this platform. So
coming up at the end of August, I'm going to
be planning a special show for that night. I'm not
sure what we're going to do yet, but now that
I'm aware of the fact that that that one year
mark is coming up, we will do something. So watch.

(01:21:50):
Keep your ears open and your eyes open. Yeah, as always,
May your journey always be magical.

Speaker 3 (01:22:08):
Waiting for so long to see when you come back
to me through the walls and battles that were lost,
We're born again.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
It's you and me.

Speaker 3 (01:22:21):
The rest is history. We danced together in different fifteen hundreds.

(01:22:56):
We must be love, We must have the sober Las
lie