Uncovering the Mystery: Laura Riste on the Missing 411 Case of Trenny Gibson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:43):
M love O, my mom M, my mom my.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Hello and welcome back to the Magical Journey Podcast. My
name is Daniel Canhoun. I'm the host of Magical Journey,
and before we get started tonight, I want to do
just a little bit of housekeeping, let you guys know
where you can find all the good stuff related to
the podcast and to the information that we bring to

(02:37):
you here at Magical Journey Podcast. First and foremost, the
most important place to check out is magical journey dot com.
That is where you're going to find all of your
information that you are needing as far as who, what, when,

(02:59):
we're in, why, we're doing some Really it's a being
updated constantly, so there's always some work being done over there,
new things being added, new features being added all the time,
so go and check that out. Along with that, I
would encourage you guys to pay attention to the link

(03:20):
for the email and how to get in touch with me.
If you would like to share your story with us,
come on to the podcast and be a part of
this journey with us. And I know it's not for everybody,
but I do have a Patreon site which does go
along with hand in hand with all of the episodes

(03:43):
that we provide here, so there's extra material on there.
It goes a little in depth into more in depth,
I should say, into what we're talking about and give
you more evidence to back up what we're bringing to you.
So that is the story there tonight. I'm really excited, guys,

(04:08):
because tonight is a big step in the direction of
bringing a story to light that I've touched on a
few times. There's a couple of episodes dedicated to the
Turney Gibson case right now. But tonight, I tell you,

(04:29):
we're going to deep dive into the main characters in
Tourney's life before, during, and after the disappearance. And to
do that, I have with me tonight, one of the,
if not the most well known and informative person on

(04:53):
the Turney Gibson case. With tonight and let's welcome to
the stage, Laura Risty. Laura, Hey, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (05:05):
I'm well, how are you?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
You know what? I am really good. I'm really excited.
We got a lot of people who are fans of yours,
your work, have followed you like myself for a while
now that are you know, It's very rare that we
get the opportunity to have somebody who has been working

(05:31):
on something as big as this case is for as
long as you have, and to have the information that
you have gathered over time, like your catalog of information
is phenomenal on this case. And I think that is
one of the things that keeps training and her story

(05:53):
alive is the fact that we do have resources out
there that are updated and you know, continue together momentum
in the case because you know, so many times we
get you know, like Dennis Martin and some of the
other cases they're big stories. Over time, they get stagnant

(06:15):
because we don't really ever learn anything new, right, And
with Tourney's case, you have kept it active and alive
and vital for a very long time.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
Now.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
No, Well, I'm I'm pleased, very pleased to be be
Trenny's voice and be a voice and an advocate for
the missing and the kind of forgotten and the ones
that kind of fell fell under the rug or were
swept away. So I'm very honored that I have that

(06:49):
i have that designation, and I'm very pleased to be here,
very excited. So without further ado, I guess let's take
a flying leap into this case.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Right, So there are some characters, and like, honestly, when
you look at the cast of characters, there's a lot
of Roberts. It's a Robert club. There's a lot of
very intriguing backstories behind some of these guys.

Speaker 5 (07:24):
And.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
You know, and when you look at it, it almost
appears as if it's a perfect storm of characters who
are involved that make it very difficult to get to
the heart of the.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Matter, right, Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
And I think that is I mean, you know, case
in point. I mean, let's talk about the dad for
a moment. You know, Robert number one.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah, mister Gibson, Robert Robert Attus Gibson.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
He by all means, comes across at first and on
the surface as being, you know, very much the typical
dad who's missing a child. You know, he's he's concerned.
He appears to be, you know, under a lot of stress,
worrying about his daughter. There's uncertainty, but there's also this

(08:34):
undercurrent of almost I don't want to say, I don't
want to say the undercurrent of of arrogance, but.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
That's okay, I'll say it. He was, he was arrogant.

Speaker 6 (08:55):
Very tell us a little bit about Robert Gibson, senior
and what what.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
Your view is on his I guess his part in
making this case incredibly difficult at times. Well.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Robert Robert Gibson Senior. He and Hope Gibson. They had
been married for probably probably about eighteen nineteen years when
Trenny went missing, and mister Gibson he was personnel director
for a chemical company in Knoxville. They produced industrial chemicals.

(09:50):
It was called Malta International, and his job required him
to travel out of town, usually for two weeks every
year every month, so he'd be gone and then Hope
would be on her own with Trenny's help managing the household.
And Trenny and her sister Tina, they helped with childcare

(10:14):
a lot because they had a little brother who was
only six years old when Trenny went missing. From what
I gather and in talking to two people that knew
the Gibson family neighbors other classmates of Trenny's, Bob's and Tina's,
Hope Gibson was the disciplinarian, not so much mister Gibson,

(10:38):
that that role mainly fell to Hope. Hope told me
that she was abused by mister Gibson and that was common,
fairly common for those times. She didn't tell me if
what kind of abuse it was, but it was it
was abuse. I've also been told he liked to chase skirt.

(11:01):
He had a few had a few girlfriends on the side.
He'd been involved in a few rather nefarious activities, and
we kind of talked about this before, kind of what
I call like insurance fraud, things like that, kind of
more white collar crime where you didn't really actually get

(11:22):
your hands dirty kind of thing. He had taken some
money from a boy scout troop that he was in
charge of. He ran an insurance scam, the kind of
thing where you set fire to your house, but you
move all the appliances and good furniture out first and

(11:42):
then you torch it kind of thing. He had also
done some time in jail for a bank heist, but
it wasn't actually stick him up and throw the money
in this bag type of thing. It was more like
an inside where he wrote a bad check and someone

(12:04):
that worked at the bank was in on it with
him and gave him the money kind of thing. But
mister Gibson actually did some time in jail for that.
I think I actually sent that to you. You can
view it on ancestry, so he wasn't actually someone on
the most more up and up, you know, just looking

(12:25):
at pictures of him. I've never had an interview with
the with the man, but just looking at pictures of him,
he gives me the he begbis the one thing that
I didn't care for, mister Gibson. And you know, it's
easy enough when reporters are are interviewing someone to take

(12:46):
a take the stance kind of, you know, to their
own however, they're going to make it fit the story
or fit the narrative. But I think I sent you
all those articles from the universe Tennessee, from the old
newspapers and so on, covering Trenny's case and the search,

(13:06):
and if you've ever read those and kind of thought
about them a bit, mister Gibson twists every story to
make it sound like it's all about him. And I mean,
his daughter's missing. We don't know what the hell's happened
to her, what's going on, But he always twists the
story around and makes it look like it's somehow about him,

(13:27):
and that really doesn't sit well with me. That's something
that a narcissist does or someone with those sorts of tendencies,
but enough psychology one on one. That was something that
I thought now, mister Gibson. Ironically, I found out that

(13:48):
the FBI was tailing him for some reason after Trenny disappeared,
and they followed him more than once to California where
he was flying, and they lost the tale. I'm in
the process right now of trying to get the FBI
reports through the Freedom of Information Act. Michael Bouchard and

(14:10):
I were on our I think it's our eighth or
or ninth try right now, but with Dennis Martin, he
was finally able to get Dennis's FBI report for the search,
and I think he said it took about twenty tries,
so we're about halfway there.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Ye.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
So anyway, he was away when Trenny disappeared. He was
in New Orleans on business and he was actually due
to fly in the night that Trenny disappeared, so October eighth,
nineteen seventy six, and he was flying into McGee Tyson,
and as far as I know, it was planned that

(14:52):
Hope would be going to McGee Tyson to pick him up,
or he'd be getting a taxi home and kind of
that's when everything fell apart. About eight thirty the guidance
counselor at the school called the Gibson residents, told Miss
Gibson that Trenny was missing, and he actually came to

(15:13):
the house, collected Hope, and they went together to the
airport to collect mister Gibson, and then from there they
went to the Smokies.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
So, Robert Gibson Senior, it's very interesting that you mentioned
that the FBI was kind of had raised an eyebrow
about him, because the one of the things that we
learn as this story starts unfolding, is there's a lot

(15:53):
of speculation about his relationship with his daughter. How know,
how they got along, if they got along, there's some
of this kind of question whether or not he may
have been somewhat abusive to Trinny.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Well in speaking with Trenny's classmates, and there weren't a
lot of them that really knew her, and they all
had came to the consensus that, you know, they could
be friendly with Trenny at school, but she was not
about to ask anybody to come home with her after

(16:34):
school or on the weekend or holidays. There was some
reason why she wasn't interested in bringing in bringing kids home.
It was just kind of fine to see them after school.
And Hope Gibson glossed that over. She just said Trenny
was a homebody, kept to herself, didn't really interact with

(16:55):
too many other kids her own age, and I find
that a little hard to believe. I think there was
a reason that Trenny didn't want anyone coming home with her.
I had a friend that was somewhat similar, and just
her home life wasn't good growing up, and I kind
of knew that and didn't push the issue. So she'd

(17:16):
come home with me occasionally, but I didn't go to
her place because I knew that, you know, the atmosphere
there wasn't good. I know that Trenny looked after her
younger brother a lot. She helped a lot with the housework.
From what I heard, they they tended to speak down
to her at times, that sort of that sort of thing,

(17:40):
and I think Trenny was just thinking, you know, I
got another couple of years of this, and then I
can move out, I can go to university, and then
I can do my own thing. So I think she
was of the mind, you know, she just had to
stick it out for just a while longer.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, that really, it's it's hard not to feel kind
of feel some sense of just almost dread for her
in so many ways when it comes to the relationship

(18:18):
that appears to have kind of taken place with her family,
with her her parents especially the brother is one of
the characters that really the older brother one of the
characters too that we kind of we look at and

(18:39):
go what really happened there with him? Because he, by
all means, is pretty much I mean the lack of again,
lack of better words, is viewed as seen as rather irresponsible.

(19:00):
He tends to come across as being somebody who is
very detached. He was known to be a drug user
among other things, and just not I mean, you know,
he was old enough to go into the military, but
he took no responsibility at all for his younger siblings.

(19:24):
Seems to be very little in the way of his
like you don't hear a lot about his relationship with
his dad at all.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
No, really, Like I've said before, I know, Bob and
Trenny were close, and from what I understand, Tino was
fairly close with Bob as well, so they got along
with each other fine, but you know that nineteen seventies
persona of you know, the females doing the housework things

(19:57):
like that, and the oldest male heir to the family
throne kind of thing. Usually the oldest male was the
one that the family would tend to kind of you know,
Pin that is going to go to university and get
a wonderful job, Mary have children, that sort of thing.

(20:18):
And this the way the family was structured there. It
didn't really seem that there was any pressure on Bob
to you know, fulfill that sort of thing. From what
I've heard from Gibson relations, Bob was kind of going
through a period in his teens where he was trying to,

(20:40):
you know, figure out who or where or what he
where he fit in. I mean, we all go through that,
but the expectation is still there once we finish high school.
You know, it's either you get a job, you go
to college or university, or you join the military. Those
are your options. You can't just lay here in collect

(21:00):
dust kind of thing. So the family did say though
that when Bob joined the Navy, they were all really
pleased because they thought, you know, at least he had
some sort of a some sort of a direction and
then maybe he could figure out from there what he
wanted to what he wanted to do. So, you know,
at least there was there was that. But Bob went

(21:23):
through a period, you know, where he'd lay in his room,
he drank, he took drugs, he listened to records, He
cleaned up his act for a while, and he was
showing up at school in a shirt and a tie
with a bible and then the kids were calling him
Bible Bob, and he sold all his records and things
and tried to, you know, turn over a new leaf.

(21:45):
One person I talked to said that Bob seemed to
be very attracted to girls that were just like a mess.
She said she remembered one girl that Bob was dating,
and actually he later married this this same girl, but
she was in the bathroom one day trying to kill herself,

(22:07):
and this lady I talked to ran to go get help.
Fortunately help arrived, everything was okay. But he tended to
go for the really the really crazy girls. Yeah, so,
you know, unfortunately, Bob, he did join the military. He
went through basic training. His first time home in October

(22:32):
was the first time that he'd seen his family since
he left in July, and he actually wasn't eighteen till
until November, so he was only actually seventeen when he
joined up.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Wow wow. And he had Bob was was rather he
had a really good working relationship with his with his sister.
They you know, they were kind of and for just

(23:06):
on looking at the family matrix, Bob and Trney were
kind of, you know, best buds in a way. They
were like they Bob actually told and the forestry people
there in the parks like Trinny would not just disappear

(23:27):
like this with me being in town. She's like, you
don't understand that. It's not my sister's thing.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Uh. As far as I've been told, they were. They
were very close pretty much from the time that Trenny
came home from the hospital after she was born. They were.
They were close. They were going to kind of, you know,
get through this life together kind of thing and and whatever.
I don't think that Bob ever would have harmed training intentionally,

(23:57):
and I always say this, It would have had to
have been some kind of complete and total accident or
her disappearance had something to do with somebody or something
he was involved in or with. But I can't ever
see him harming her.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
It's interesting that you say intentionally, because what one of
the things that comes to mind with me is Bob
being Bob and having the kind of you know, the
old older signaling mentality of just kind of like you

(24:38):
basically just inching through by the skin of his teeth.
It sounds like at times he I could see him
very easily, you know, getting involved unintentionally with something that
was not necessarily for his best good and you know,

(24:58):
and unfortunately turning. And I've loved you know, And I
think that's one of the things that when it comes
to Bob and his character, I think that's one of
the things that makes it makes his part in the
story very interesting as stand out. Otherwise, like Bob as

(25:19):
a person, there's not a lot about him that raises
a lot of question, it seemed like to me overall
about his character or about you know, what part he
may have played or may not have played with Turney's disappearance,
except for, like I said, the fact that Bob is
so much Bob.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Well, you know, like like I've often said, Bob came
home from from military on a Wednesday, and Trinny disappeared Friday,
and that is always been an odd coincidence, and there's
always this little, nasty little song that plays in the
back of my head about Bob coming home Wednesday. Triny
disappeared Friday. The other question that I have is, you know,

(26:03):
Hope had to back out of that field trip kind
of at the last minute because she found out it
was gonna be an all day thing and there was
gonna be no babysitter for Trenny's youngest brother. I mean,
my family, the way they were and the way I
was raised, it would have been, okay, Bob, you got
two options here. You can either go on the field

(26:23):
trip and take my place as a chaperone, or I'm sorry,
you're gonna have to watch your little brother for the
afternoon on Friday while I go on this field trip.
And you know, if that had been me, I would
have been, yeah, sure, it doesn't matter. What would you
rather I do? Like, would you rather A or B
I'm not sure why Bob wasn't given one of those

(26:47):
options and why he was just kind of let out
of the whole thing. In talking with like I said,
some of the extended family, they said, probably because Bob
wasn't responsible enough at the time for either ask maybe
he was making up for lost time when he was
in basic training. I don't know. That part is a
gray area, and I think that that was one of

(27:10):
the things that Hope Gibson didn't want me to further
praud and discover, was Bob Gibson Treni's brother that he
had a few a few quirks, you know, he had
a few vices perhaps, but you know that that would
have been one of the obvious options. Is he take

(27:31):
her place or he baby sits right?

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Right. It's very interesting to me again when we talk
about the things. I guess the thing that really sticks
out of my mind about him is when when you
say that in Hope kind of had to veer away

(27:58):
from any a lot with him. She really did not
want uh. She kind of blocked people deliberately from from
digging too deep into Bob and Bob's.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
World that was territory she didn't want explored.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Right, right, And so it always raises a question with me,
why what what is it that puts Bob in that
place where she's like, yeah, we're not gonna where this
is what we're not doing today. Mm hmmm. Because most moms.
They want to protect their children. But it seems to

(28:37):
me that Hope was almost overprotective of Bob.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
She she rather you know, she kind of pleased him.
That is a characteristic that does happen at times in families. Uh,
sometimes with the with the boys over the girls. Uh,
the boys are kind of petted and pleased and the
girls they do the work. It just depends on the

(29:05):
family family dynamic. Sometimes it's the youngest child, sometimes it's
the it's the oldest and then the middle one kind
of gets whatever's leftover type of thing. You know. It
just just sort of depends on the whole dynamic of it.
I know that Hope was and still is a very
religious lady. She's Southern Baptist. The kids went to church,

(29:31):
you know, twice a day. They went on Wednesday evenings
and then twice on Sunday. They were they had Bible
study every morning.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
You know. It was.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
A very religious household. Much different than the way I
grew up, but that's that's what they were about. Hope
was very involved with the church activities with the church,
and she wanted her family to have their circle and
surround themselves with people from the church, not so much
as you know, the kids at school or whatever she

(30:06):
would have rather. Trenie's friends had been other other followers
of the same.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Church, right, so there was there was with a tenancy
for her to almost get this kind of wall in
a sense around them.

Speaker 5 (30:27):
Right.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
In that sense, I find that very interesting too. There's
a there's a lot of shielding going on in the story.
A lot of the characters, you know, especially in the
immediate family. For instance, Miracle, the baby of the family.
You know you've said before that that he is very

(30:52):
different for lack of a better term. Again, there's a
lot of of when you go and you try to
research anything about Miracle Gibson, you literally run into a
brick wall. There's like I've done all kinds of research
to try to locate even like just an image of

(31:14):
him online, and you literally can't.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
I can send you, I can send you some He's
mainly lived with his mother most of his adult life.
That's why there's not a whole lot out there. Like
I don't think he's had like a you know, like
a phone or a electricity bill or a natural gas
bill or anything like that in his own name. I

(31:41):
think he's just lived with his mother, and that's been
that's been it. When I've talked to Miracle. I've talked
to him quite a few times. Sometimes it's like I
don't have the patience for this today. I can't do this.
He wants to talk in riddles and things like that,
and some days, you know, I don't mind that for

(32:03):
ten to fifteen minutes, and after that he's just a
pain in the ass. I can't I can't do this.
But I have gleaned some information out of out of Miracle.
He has fond memories of Trenny. She basically raised him,
you know, she was there for Miracle, and he has

(32:24):
very fond memories of her. When I ask him other things, though, well,
then the tends to kind of veer off in all
directions at some In talking to him, sometimes you can
tell like he's almost been coached what to say and
what not to say, and where to go and where
not to go, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah. Yeah, So when you've talked to him, how does
he what is the connection with him and Bob as
far as like, obviously Bob was old, Bob has since passed,
so there's not a current connection with him, obviously, But

(33:09):
what how does Miracle treat the connection between him and
his brother compared to that of Triny, because she said
that he has very fond memories of Trinny, and he was.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Definitely closer to Trenny because she was the one that
was always there. He didn't have anything negative to say
about Bob. He said that Bob had married twice, had
two daughters. They didn't really have a whole lot to
do with the family, but Miracle had met the oldest
daughter once or twice. Other than that, he didn't really

(33:48):
have a lot to say other than Bob passed away.
He was only forty two when he died. Other than
Bob passed away and he's been gone for just about
twenty five years now.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
Wow, Yeah, Bob was It's definitely he was very young
at the point that he passed.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
And I've also talked to Bob's two daughters. The one
I suspect that something very negative happened. I didn't press
her as to what, but she doesn't want to talk
about her father's side of the family, just not interested

(34:34):
in it. And I respect that she didn't have much
good things to say about the one meeting that she
did have. She just thought that they were a bunch
of holy roller Jesus freak sort of thing, and she
didn't care to see them anymore. So I just kind
of left it at that. Her mother and Bob broke up.

(34:57):
I believe she would have been about three or four,
so I don't know if something happened between her and
her father or if it was just like she didn't
want anything to do with her dad's side of the family,
but she didn't really want to talk about it, wasn't interested,
and I just left it at that.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
So then, oddly enough, sorry to interrupt you. Oddly enough,
a little while after I talked to her, I had
her I had her sister in law reach out to me,
and the sister in law see her mother that was
married to Bob Gibson. She later remarried and had two boys.

(35:41):
So this daughter had two half brothers, and this lady
that contacted me was married to one of them. And
she talked to me a little bit, and she said,
part of the problem is that she knows that she
has a half sister, she doesn't know really where to
look for her, but she'd really really like to find her.

(36:03):
But because the family broke down, Bob and her mother
split up. Bob went one way, her mother went another
with her. You know, her mother didn't want to talk
about Bob or anything like that. She found out she
had this half sister that was about nine years younger
than her and you know, had never met her, but

(36:23):
would like to like to find her and let her know.
You know, hey, we share shared the same dad. So
I said, well, what do you know about this woman
that Bob married? So this this sister in law. She
told me what she knew, which really wasn't much. It
was a first name, a last name, and a possible

(36:46):
year of marriage. And I said, well, I said, I
can't promise anything, but I'll you know, I'll see what
I can what I can do. And I said, you know,
you got to make sure that you realize that if
I find person, she might not want anything to do
with any of you. I said that you got to
be prepared for that fact that that might happen. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

(37:09):
no problem. Anyway, I found her. I found this lady
that Bob was had a relationship when the early nineties.
Unfortunately she passed away, but I did find her daughter
and I reached out to her and I felt sorry
for the poor girl because I don't do this for

(37:32):
a living. But anyway, I managed to convince her finally
that this was legit, This was real, and she had
somebody that was looking for her and they were potentially related.
And this poor girl, she had no idea that Bob
was her father. Was her father, no idea none. So

(37:53):
I put her in touch with this sister in law,
who then put her in touch with the daughter. They
did a DNA test and they found out that they
did share a dad. But the younger one had no
idea that Bob was even her her father. She didn't
even have a photo of him nothing. The best that
she could tell me was she said, I'm just going

(38:16):
to be frank with you. My parents were both addicts,
So her mother was an addict, and apparently Bob was
an addict. And then this girl was basically raised by
an aunt and uncle, so she really had nothing to
do with Bob's side of the family whatsoever. Growing up.
She just knew her aunts and uncles and you know,

(38:39):
cousins and that sort of thing. Wow, So it was
really a shock, but things worked out well. She found
her her half sister. It was a good reunion. Everybody
was happy. There was no I don't want to know
you or any of this. So you know, I was

(39:00):
I was pleased that that much came out of this,
you know, that was that was good.

Speaker 5 (39:05):
That was positive, right, right, because there could have been
a lot of very not so good things that could
have come out of that overall.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
The other thing that happened too, Trenny's cousin and his
wife told me that Bob actually disappeared after Trenny did,
and nobody knew where he was for about a year
or two. And you know, what are the chances that
Trenny's going to go missing? You know, your sister goes man,
then you go missing kind of thing, and everybody was

(39:38):
up in arms. You know, what in the hell is
going on here in this family kind of thing? And
Bob resurfaced. He was living in the Philippines.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
You had mentioned that to me before, that he had
taken residence in the Philippines at one point, which I
found very interesting too, because it's kind of like that
in itself kind of raised the question with me of
whats up with that. Let's I want to backtrack for

(40:13):
a moment, because one of the things that I find
very interesting is in the mix of all of this
chaos that was going on with the family, with the
with the kind of like just shadiness revolved around so
many of them. You know, here's Tina, the middle child
of the family, who by all accounts appears to have

(40:40):
had similar problems to to Bob. Uh. You know, there's
there's some indications she may have had some drug problems. Uh,
there may have. Yeah that there was definitely some denial
going on there with some stuff. Uh, what's what is

(41:00):
the story on Tina, because it's kind of like she's
the invisible black sheep in the middle of all this.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Well, Tina had it rough after Trenny disappeared, for sure.
I've spoken to a lot of her classmates. A lot
of them knew Trenny and Tina both, but were more
Tina's age, and they say the same thing. You know,
it was a very dark period for Tina. Her dad
was terrible, her activities were restricted. Her parents went through

(41:36):
this stage after Treny disappeared. They had like to throw
out all their cassette tapes and their records and their
paperback books because everything was was evil and bad and
that kind of thing. And Tina got called a whoror
more than once. It was just not good. It was.

(42:01):
It was pretty pretty rough for so Tina. She graduated
from Bearden. She's a very striking pretty girl. Probably about
a year or two after she graduated, she got married.
So she got married fairly young, and the marriage didn't
last very long. Then she met another fellow and they

(42:23):
dated for a while, and she got pregnant and she
had her daughter, Dominique. She found out while she was
pregnant that the guy she was dating was married, So
she was on her own, a single parent with her
young daughter. Hope Gibson helped out quite a bit babysitting
and so on and so forth. Then later Tina married

(42:46):
another fellow by the name of Robert, So there's another
Robert in this story. And they lived in Texas for
a time. He had a job with an oil company.
Eventually they moved back to Knoxville. The marriage didn't survive.
Their youngest daughter that they had was named Angelique, and

(43:07):
Tina suffered from alcoholism, drug addiction, and Angelique she grew
up in foster care. And I've found Angelique and I've
spoken with her. I've also found Tina's husband, Robert, and
we're in touch, and I've spoken to him too about
his time with Tina and so on, and what he

(43:29):
remembers her telling him about Trenny and and that sort
of thing.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Do you feel like, because it's kind of obvious that
in a sense that there's possibilities that that Bob may
have had a little bit of of of his hand
in dealing with whatever happened with Trenny, But do you

(44:00):
feel like Tina may have somehow been connected as well
with the disappearance?

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Not so much, mainly because well, she was a little
bit younger than than Trenny. She did know about Trenny
and Calvin Bowman. That wasn't what really wasn't a secret
with her. I don't feel though that she had anything
anything to do with Trenny's disappearance, unless there was something

(44:32):
that she knew that perhaps Trenny had confided in her,
that she probably should have told, and she she didn't.
I did get to speak to Tina once before she
passed away. She died in twenty sixteen, and she seemed
to think that her father had something to do with
Trennie's disappearance. She just thought he was an evil, evil man.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Wow, why does that not surprise again?

Speaker 3 (45:04):
You know, you know she was. She was suffering pretty
badly from addiction when I when I did talk to her.
I don't know if that would have, you know, colored
things or clouded her judgment any But she had nothing
good to say about her father and thought that he
was somehow, somehow involved in it.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
It is very interesting when you look at Robert Gibson
Senior and you look at his demeanor, his history, the
so so very many things about him that you hear
as you start to pull these pieces together from from

(45:50):
this case. H he First of all, it's very I
find it very interesting that Hope takes the position that
she takes with a lot of things revolving around the case.
She's very protective of some information. She's very protective of

(46:12):
certain people in the case, especially when it comes to
Bob and his connection or lack of in some ways
to the case. It's but Robert, it appears though, there's

(46:36):
always his dark cloud, this question every time the man's
name is brought up as to how deep in the
crap cake he really was when it came to the
disappearance of training. Because there's so many things is narcissism
and a lot of other things just don't add up.

(46:59):
It does not. So when you when your middle daughter
is saying, you know he's shady, you got to watch him,
it kind of brings you to that place, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Well, one thing that struck the family the wrong way
was Trenny's two uncles and one of her cousins. They
came to the Smokies the day after Trenny disappeared to
aid in the search, and they were out there helping
with the search. They did see Hope a couple of times.

(47:37):
They did see Robert Robert Junior once, but there was
no sign of mister Gibson senior. And they thought this peculiar,
or so not peculiar, given they they knew mister Gibson
a little bit. But hey, man, I mean, your daughter's missing,
we're trying to find her. Where the hell are you?

(47:59):
And he was in his room in the hotel they
were staying at in Gatlinburg watching football. Meanwhile everybody else
is tearing up the park trying to find Trenny. And
he's in the this hotel room, warm and dry, watching football,
and they just couldn't wrap their heads around that, you know.

(48:23):
They they weren't. They weren't exactly fans of mister Gibson,
but they were. They were really gobsmacked that he would
stoop that low as to not, you know, be out
there trying to help them search. I mean, you know,
family's family. You gotta do what you gotta do. I mean, yeah,
but no, he was not out there. The cousin told

(48:47):
me that the only time that mister Gibson was actually
out of the room and in the park was if
somebody wanted to interview him. Other than that, he just
stayed in the hotel in Gatlinburg. He had nothing, nothing
more to do with it. But hope was seen. She
was out, and they did see Robert, but not mister Gibson.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
That is incredibly interesting because again, like you said, you
would think this is your child, you would be vested
in trying to find out what was going on, uh
and and play a big part in the search and
gathering as much information. I mean unless My thought there though,

(49:42):
is is is that possibly a telltale sign that he
knew something that he may have known more than what
the average person did, possibly.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
Or just incredibly lazy to the empower of an infinity.
I don't know how you could. You could not do that,
even mister Gibson was a bigger person, you know, but
anybody would still have had a raincoat on and something
and been out there, you know, trying to do something,

(50:16):
or at least being out there and being supportive for
his wife, you know, being out and just being support
for her.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Yeah. Yeah, See that's what the thing again, when I
look at this, and I'm looking I'm trying to look
at it through the lens of you know, not being
judgmental towards any of these characters. At the same time,
you really can't help but be to a point there
seems to be you know that undercurrent a lot of

(50:51):
questions arise about everybody's actions in this. There in the
middle of all of this, you know, here's Bob. He
was literally, I mean, he had came he came home

(51:12):
from from you know, doing his his uh, his time
there doing his uh what was he a boot camp
or whatever at that point, and and you know, and
and so he's kind of you know, walking in on
this and going okay, well this is this is not right.

(51:36):
Something is not right here. Then you've got you know,
the other the other side of this, where you've got
you know, the two kids. Tina obviously rather distressed. I mean,
how could she not be. Her sister has disappeared, there's
no there's no word on what's happened, and you know,

(52:01):
and this is this is a scary situation. Miracle was
way too young to even conformhend what was going on
at the time. So it all again it goes back
to Bob being the older sibling. You know, he had

(52:21):
a lot of emotional investment in what was going on
with his sister at the time.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
And yet well, absolutely, and I think the consensus was
they they would find her, you know, they would, they would,
they would find her. There were all these people searching,
they had the helicopters, everything, and I think the consensus
was that if she'd managed to stay survived the night,
that they will probably find her the next day. But

(52:48):
I you know, I question why mister Gibson, even if
he wasn't fit and able to you know, red search
with everyone, why he wasn't even out at least just
being there for his wife and being there for Bob.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Right, That's I guess that's where where it kind of
leaves me hanging at is if Robert Gibson did not
know more than what you know was on the surface,
if he was really just kind of as uninformed as

(53:24):
everybody else, then you know why the detachment to everything
going on around and what was he didn't even really
have a response or or a even an inkling of
a connection with his son enough to be there for

(53:50):
him at this point. So there's this this big question
mark next to him in a way for me, as
you know, what are you doing? What? What part did
you really have to play here? And going back to Bob,
you know, I kind of go was there something that

(54:11):
your dad had on you, something that your dad knew
about you and your part with this that made him
kind of distance himself because he was like, I don't
want to Yeah, this is beyond what I want to
be part of at this point. And it's kind of
like he just threw his hands up and was like, Okay,

(54:32):
I'm just going to go hide in my room.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
So to me, no, that's another way to look at
it too. It's interesting because if you when you research this,
you find that after that weekend, that's the first weekend
that Treny was was missing so that would have been
the ninth and tenth of October nineteen seventy six. After that,

(55:01):
Hope seems resigned to the fact that they're not going
to find her. But mister Gibson, he keeps pressing, you know,
keep searching, keep looking. So on. There's another article that
talks about how distressed he was when the search was
called off at the end of October, first part of November,

(55:26):
although that the rangers were going to search just on
a limited basis. But mister Gibson is pretty distressed that
they've called the search off, and he was very very
vocal about getting together another search for the spring of
nineteen seventy seven, and the Park Service fought and fought

(55:47):
and fought him on that. They said that if there
was anything in that park, they would have fought like
they would have found her unless she's in an area
they couldn't search that was you know, thick at e
or they couldn't get to what kind of thing or whatever.
Mister Gibson talked about bringing in cadaver dogs and that
sort of resource. I've read through letters from the National

(56:11):
Park Service and they just fought tooth and nail. They
thought there was nothing for them to find, so they,
you know, why waste the manpower on continuing the search.
And mister Gibson finally did get another search going in
the spring of seventy seven, but they didn't find anything.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Right, he was actually mister Gibson actually went as far
as contacting then President Carter, and President Carter was instrumental
in helping to get another search going because there was
a connection between the Gibsons and the president, the then

(56:59):
President Carter.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Well, at least mister mister Gibson said there was. Remember
we talked about mister Gibson and the and playing pro
football and the Yeah, the evening, my husband spent sifting
through the through the player rosters and everything, and we
we couldn't find anything. He never ever played for them.

(57:23):
I don't know if he actually wrote his own obituary
or someone else wrote it. And they believed that that
fact was true, that he played for the Pittsburgh Steelers,
but he did not, according to anything that we were
able to find out.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Right, So there's this tendency again for him to call
suspicion to himself, not only because he is latantly live
for lack of a better way of putting it about
some stuff within his his his obituary, there's misinformation there.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
But well, unless he filled in and he was the
team mascot, or maybe he was the guy that blew
up the football's eye, I don't know, but we could
find no record of him actually playing.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Wow. The the I guess the thing that that really
kind of is that moment that makes you go wow,
is you know we have we have mister Gibson, who

(58:34):
was you know, he was out of town a lot.
He was kind of the detached father, the the guy
that dad checks out kind of thing. We've got hope
who he was, for lack of any other way of
putting it, was kind of ahead of the house in

(58:56):
the sense, uh, And that she was the one who
kept the bills, paid the business rolling there in the
house and so forth. She by all indications, was kind
of the brain power of the family in a sense.

(59:20):
And then but with all that going on with the
two parents, you've got this kind of by the way, uh,
Trinny as a boyfriend story going on here, and you know,
and he Triny's disappearance raised a lot of questions about

(59:46):
you know, not only her brother's connection to the disappearance.
But there was a lot of things that made us go, well,
what about these guys? What do these guys have to do?
Would Trinny you know, before, during, and after all of this,
because there's there's Robert Simpson, who was questionable, to say

(01:00:14):
the least in the whole story. I didn't to say
that Robert Simpson is a was was a minor character,
would be downplaying him greatly. He there are so many

(01:00:38):
things about him and his character in his story, how
he plays the parts that he plays in all of
this that makes you really it makes you look at
him with a lot of speculation and a lot of
serious questions of doubt. Calvin Bowman is the other one

(01:00:59):
that when I hear his name and I see how
he's connected to the story, I understand that there's some
there's a lot of misgivings about Calvin. Uh, you know, yeah,
there's a lot like.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
Well, well, Calvin Bowman, he went by the nickname Keg
or Kegan, and he was he was from a large family,
and he was actually a very very skilled baseball player.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
If he had perhaps pursued that it might have been
a way a way out for him. Anyway, he attended Bearden,
as did his brothers and sisters. Trenny was good friends
with his sister Annette, and Calvin and Trenny they knew
each other, uh. They'd gone to Bearden Junior High together

(01:01:55):
and then on to UH Bearden High and they got
together in Trenny's sophomore year. So anyway, when I spoke
with Calvin here last summer, when I was able to
interview him, he said that they had been seeing each

(01:02:16):
other for probably about a month. He said that they
would arrange it at school. She'd leave her window open
for him. Then he would find a ride with somebody,
because the area that he lived in was fairly far
removed from the area of Knoxville where Treny lived, and
he'd get a ride. If he could get a ride,

(01:02:38):
he'd come over to twenty's. The window would be open,
he'd come in, and they do their thing kind of thing.
So this has been going on for about a month.
Hope must have gotten suspicious. Tina, when I spoke with her,
she said she knew about it, that Trenny and Calvin,
we're seeing each other kind of thing, And obviously it

(01:02:59):
wasn't to be kosher with the parents. So they had
to do it on the sly, And in speaking with
Trennie's other family, her cousins told me that pretty much
anything those kids did, they would have to do it
on the sly because they wouldn't have been allowed to
do it otherwise. So anyway, this one particular evening in

(01:03:23):
October nineteen seventy five, Calvin came over to see Trenny.
They had pre arranged this. She had her window open,
but Hope got got wind, probably that there was something
gonna happen. I don't know if she just had a feeling.
I don't know if Trenny or Tina accidentally said something,

(01:03:45):
But anyway, Hope had a gun. So when Calvin came
across the lawn, he headed for Trenny's window, which was open.
He went to go in and climbed through Trenny's window,
and when he did, that's when Hope shot him in foot.
Calvin said that he left then and went limping down

(01:04:06):
the street with bleeding. He said that one of the
neighbors came out on their porch, having heard the noise,
and asked, you know what happened or whatever, and he said, yeah,
I've been shot. I've been shot, so Calvin got medical attention.
He was in the hospital, YadA YadA. He was in

(01:04:29):
the hospital for a day or two, and he said
that mister Gibson came in and just tore a strip
off him. In the hospital, he was to stay away
from the from Trenny. He wasn't good enough for her,
you know, didn't ever want to see him there again.
Kind of thing. They had Calvin charged. He had to

(01:04:52):
go to court. Then he was sent to a juvenile
detention center and he was actually sentenced for two years.
So it was a fairly you know, fairly harsh sentence
on him. But he said that you know, he he
did his best to behave himself, and he said the
place was pretty crowded, and they kind of kicked him
out after six months and he just went back home,

(01:05:16):
went back to Bearden, and that was kind of that
was kind of that. And he said that, you know,
he'd see Trenny at school, you know, really he said,
what could he say to her? You know, he he
said that he felt that Trenny should have maybe maybe
told her mother, you know, that they were seeing each other,

(01:05:39):
maybe tried to vouch for him a little bit, but
she didn't, but he said he didn't really blame her either.
He just kind of just let it go. She had
turned her attention to a new boy. He was also
a young black man, and he was a basketball player
named Derek Scott. And I asked Calvin, I said, did

(01:06:04):
you have any animosity to Trenny? Were you pissed at her?
I said, I mean her mother shot you in the foot,
so you know we could understand why, you know, you'd
still be upset you serve six months in the clink
on account of her. You know, like can see you,
you know, being being a little irate with her and stuff.
And he said not really. He said, like her her

(01:06:27):
parents were just a bunch of crazy racists, and he
blamed them more than he blamed her. I really don't
think that Calvin would have harmed Trenny, or if he
did want to maybe scare her a little bit or
something like that, he would have done it in Knoxville.
I can't see him going to the park. He had

(01:06:50):
no way to get there, for one thing, and that
would be quite a favor. He'd have to call in
to get somebody to drive him all the way way
up there. He was not part of the horticulture less
and he said, and he admitted he was, you know,
kind of a badass in school. He spent a lot
of time in the principal's inner office, so the principal

(01:07:12):
kept pretty good tabs on him. And he said that
Calvin was at school that day. And I asked Calvin,
I said, now, were you pals with Bob Gibson, her brother?
And he said not really. He said he knew Bob,
like knew who he was and everything from the smoking
pit at school, but he said they didn't really hang

(01:07:32):
out together or anything like that. I asked him about
Robert Simpson and he said pretty much the same thing.
Just knew who he was, but they weren't close. I
asked Calvin, I said, were you dealing drugs around Bearden?
And he said, well, not really, he said, I like,
he didn't have the means to kind of set himself

(01:07:53):
up in that sort of thing. But if somebody came
up to him and offered to pay him to hook
them up, you know, he'd be the middleman. He was
fine with doing that. He just didn't make a point of,
you know, dealing dealing drugs. So we kind of left
it at that. Calvin is no choir boy, and he

(01:08:15):
admitted that, you know, he he ended up in a
lot of trouble. In nineteen seventy nine, he served time
in prison for third degree rape and assault. There's some
du like that the guy was no saint, and I'm
not trying to, you know, absolve him of anything bad

(01:08:35):
that he did. But you know, like I said, he
didn't really seem to harbor any animosity towards Trenny. He
tended to direct that more at her folks. And I
think that if he wanted to harm her, he would
have done something in Knoxville, if he wanted too badly enough, right,
he kind of seemed to kind of scratch his head

(01:08:57):
to as to what happened to her and kind of wonder,
you know, where has she been, Like where could she
have gone? And she never you know, contacted anybody or
or anything ever again, And it was just really weird.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Right that, Yeah, I can see is like being in
the position he was in that he would have a
lot of questions about all of that. The thing that
really sticks out, But I mean, like the way.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
I saw it, if he wanted to do anything, he
probably would have done something to her. Folks like, I
don't know, slash their tires, toilet paper, the trees, you know,
stupid shit that kids do, whatever. But he didn't seem
to harbor any yell feelings toward Trenny, mostly her parents.
He called them racist and yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Right, I think the thing that really sticks out to
me with all of this, as far as as Calvin's
heart and all this, I'm very curious. I'm extremely curious
actually as to you where Robert Simpson because my thought

(01:10:16):
here is that, first of all, I feel like there
was there was some tension in a sense between Robert
Simpson and Trinny. They obviously were friends. Robert spent a
lot Simpson spent a lot of time with Triny that day,
you know, he was He walked with her, he hiked

(01:10:38):
with her up to Andrew's bald and there was almost
a sense of that they were almost a little more
than friends in a way.

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
So I guess I think if they were.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
Yeah, yeah, part of me wonders if Simpson, Al Simpson
and Calvin Bowman really like did they but heads were they?
Was there competition kind of feeling between the two of
them when it came to Trinny. What was there. What

(01:11:18):
was the relationship between the two of them because of Trinny.

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
Well, the thing that I find odd is that statement
that Robert Simpson made. This is after Trenny disappeared, when
he went by the house and he told Tina that,
you know, if Calvin Bowman has Treny, he'll kill her.
If he doesn't have Treny, then she must have run
off with some horny hitchhiker. Like to me, the way

(01:11:48):
he's talking, it's almost like, you know that that fable
the Fox and the Grapes and the sour grapes kind
of thing, were you don't you don't get what you want,
so you kind of you turn it around and make
it look like it wasn't good enough in the first place.
Does that make any sense?

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
It does.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
That's kind of what I what I picked up from it.
You know that he he couldn't get what he wanted,
so he made it look like it wasn't any good
in the first place.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Right, And that's kind of I guess in a way,
that kind of is I feel like the contention between
Simpson in his mind, you know, I'm sure he's viewing
Calvin as the guy who you know, has what he wants,

(01:12:45):
and there's there's that that tendency for me to wonder,
you know, in the back of his mind, is Robert
Simpson somehow trying to bring Calvin into a not so
good place with all of this? Is he trying to

(01:13:06):
raise questions, you know, two people to make Calvin look
like the bad guy in this And even more importantly,
I think in a sense, is you know, is his
connection with Bob, Robert Simpson's connection with Bob? Is that
does that way heavy on the possibility that there may

(01:13:31):
be more to more weight two Calvin's and Robert's connection
to Triny's disappearance, if that makes sense, because it seems
like to me, there's a lot of it just doesn't

(01:13:53):
add up. It's not adding up to me, those two boys,
you know, I think I.

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
Think out really safe with with Robert Simpson. He was
he was Bob's friend. You know, he wasn't he wasn't
conventionally attractive, and you know, being female, I I kind
of had the same sort of thing when I was
in high school. I was friends with a few a

(01:14:23):
few boys because in a lot of ways I found
boys easier to talk to than girls. I had a
few friends that were female as well. But a lot
of times I found boys a little bit easier to
talk to, especially the ones that, in my mind wouldn't
expect anything. So I was friends with this quintessential nerdy

(01:14:46):
guy that everyone teased because he always seemed to be
studying kind of thing or whatever. He had glasses and
braces and and whatever. He was a great friend. He's
now an anesthesiologist. I was friends with another young man
that was really overweight. And I was friends with another

(01:15:08):
young man that he didn't come out and say it.
We kind of knew it and it was just the
way it was, but he was he was homosexual. But
those three guys, I could talk to them about it.
We could talk about anything, and you know, and I
felt very comfortable around them because I didn't feel like

(01:15:30):
they expected anything from me as a girl. You know,
I'm not even sure if they even realized I was
a girl. Half the time, Like, you know, we had
a great time talking with each other and whatever, but
I didn't feel like they expected anything from me. I
didn't feel I had to act a certain way or
anything just because they were guys and I was. I

(01:15:52):
was female, And maybe that's why Trenny was quite comfortable
with Robert Robertson. You know, he was a very overweight,
young young man friend of her brothers, and she probably
felt comfortable with him. He had a car, he was
always willing to give people a ride wherever they wanted

(01:16:14):
to go kind of thing. So you know, like I
can see her thinking that, you know everything, everything's safe
or whatever I've got, I've got Robert Simpson here at
my back or whatever. We're gonna go and we're gonna
have a great time on this field trip. And then
something seemed to go south.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
Do you think that maybe Robert and his presence kind
of made Trinny a little too comfortable in a sense.
It possibly, and it may have been her comfort zone
with him may have led to something happening that maybe

(01:17:02):
took her by surprise or it very well.

Speaker 7 (01:17:06):
Goood of that because yeah, yeah, Hope Gibson told me
that Trenny didn't really want to go on this field trip.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
And Hope thought that it might be because that she
was kind of a homebody and that the weather forecast
was for crappy weather anyway, and maybe she thought it
was a little bit because she wasn't going. Now as
one of the chaperones. So with Bob being home, he
asked Robert Simpson if he would, you know, just kind

(01:17:40):
of keep an eye on Trenny and you know, make
sure she was okay and whatever. And he he was
up to the task, and you know, that didn't seem
to be a problem. He said he'd do that, and
they actually shared a seat on the bus on the
way up to the Smokies. Trenny seemed fine. They hiked
together to Andrews All they sat and had their lunch

(01:18:02):
and then that's kind of when the the task of
looking after Trenny seemed to kind of fall apart all
of a sudden, Robert is going to look for a
bear and Trenny's walking back down to the bus by herself.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
Yeah, that whole track, Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
It is It is a lame story. Or it could
have been that he did say that, and Trendy thought,
you know, I don't want any part of this, like
you're an idiot. I'm sorry, I'm getting the hell out
of here and turned and left.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Right. I kind of feel like, I mean, does it
not seem in a sense, because you know, the the
bottom line is is somewhere along the line probably one
of the most to me question Shimble characters. And all
of this again goes right back to Hope. She was

(01:19:07):
very She tried very hard to make it difficult to
access some information. There was some things that she seemed
to almost, like I said, kind of block people trying
to find out about. And she was very secretive, very

(01:19:33):
very sketchy in the way that she went about some
of this. But do you feel like maybe between Hope
and Bob there was a like they were almost because
I know there was at one point where where they

(01:19:54):
literally had to tell Simpson this is not cool because
he was going to the house and he was screening
their phone calls.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
Yeah, Robert Simpson was making a pest of himself in
the days following Trenny's disappearance. For lack of a better
way to say it, so Hope, mister Gibson Senior, they
were and some friends that had come for support. They
were staying in Gatlinburg, and then they were sorry, here's

(01:20:33):
something just flashed up on my screen. They were staying
in Gatlinburg and Hope had her sister, Flossie, staying at
the house in Knoxville, and she was looking after teena
miracle and and whatnot until hopefully Trenny was was found
and the family could be reunited. And Flossie complained that

(01:20:54):
she was having a terrible time trying to keep Robert
Gibson out of their house. Kept coming over and trying
to help, and his idea of helping was literally screening
their phone calls. And this went on for a few
days till Hope and mister Gibson came home to grab

(01:21:16):
some clothing and whatever and head back, and they were
actually able to confront Robert and get him to stop.
But he was literally making a pest out of himself.
I don't know if he was there thinking that Trenny
was going to phone home and he was going to
intercept the phone call somehow, or somebody else was going

(01:21:40):
to call and he was going to intercept the call.
I don't know what the idea of all that was.
But we all know the story about Robert Simpson Senior.
He was a district attorney in Knoxville at the time,
so you know, if Robert had done anything wrong, basically,

(01:22:03):
his father knew how to counsel him and how to
keep him from from getting in trouble.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
Right right, see this is why I wonder where how
all this connects together in a way that that really
makes sense, because Simpson acts like he had or acted
like he had a stake in something here to me

(01:22:35):
is what it feels like in the bottom line, somewhere
along the line, he feels like he had a dog
in the race. Then there's there's Bob who you I
mean he was He was really, you know, Trinny's go
to person. That was her person, you know, and the

(01:22:58):
two were very connected in that they were friends. But
I can't help but wonder somehow I just see Hope
being in the background, pulling strings all the time through
all of this, you know, pulling strings, being one of
the yeah yeah, and you know, and orchestrating a lot

(01:23:24):
of things in the process. So what I guess, what
I guess I'm really kind of wondering is, Yeah, we
know that that Hope was not a fan of Bowman.
We know that Hope was probably not a fan of
Derek Scott. You know, there was nothing about Trinny's relationship

(01:23:47):
with these two young men that really, you know, cast
a positive light for them in Hope's eyes, you know,
And this was her daughter, this was this was you know,
her child, you know, and their reputation. The family hung
on the fact that their daughter was involved with these

(01:24:12):
two young men who were not exactly you know, in
the eyes of the church especially you know, again a
big factor with her because they were very she was.

Speaker 3 (01:24:23):
Very They both shared one little detail that yeah, just
didn't Yeah, and and Robert Simpson, I've read the the
statement that he gave he gave the the police, and
it's pretty ridiculous. Doesn't really say say much of of

(01:24:47):
of anything that you know. They they wanted to know
basically what what he and Trennie had done on the
field trip. They wanted an account of what happened, and
basically reads like this. We went up to the ball.
She was fine. We we ate lunch. I don't think

(01:25:08):
she was going anywhere because she gave me half her
sandwich because she couldn't finish it. And we looked around
a little bit while we were on the bold, and
then it started to rain, so we got under a tree,
and then then we looked around a bit more and
then uh, I, I said that I was gonna go

(01:25:28):
track a bear, and she said that she would leave then,
and she just headed back down to the bus. And
that's the last I I've seen of her kind of thing.
So there's there's the left. Gave absolutely no details, nothing, right,

(01:25:50):
there's nothing, nothing, you know to say that. I told her, Well,
you know, do you wanna you want to stay around
here for a little while longer? No, No, I want
to go to the Boss. Well, I'm supposed to kind
of be watching you, so I guess I'll I'll go
back with you kind of thing or whatever. But no,
he he kind of drops his duties and decides to

(01:26:12):
stay at the Bold and look for this bear.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
Right now. The one thing that we really haven't touched
on yet that is a key factor I think in
all of this too, and again makes me kind of
like put an eye on Hope and go, what do
you think about this? Is the fact that there was

(01:26:38):
the bathroom there at the at Cleanman's domee what is
called Cleanman's Stone at that point. Yeah, that was called
into question because at one point, you know, Trenny went
to the bathroom there. There was some discussion about whether

(01:27:02):
the missing jewelry, Triny's missing jewelry and the comb was
somehow connected with that visit to the bathroom there and
how all that plays into you know, what happened to Trinny,
what really happened to Triny, and the connection that Simpson

(01:27:24):
had with it, the connection that really formed everything that
looked wrong and suspicious about this is It's just there
was whatever happened revolving around that bathroom and that time
in the bathroom. There seemed like there were questions that

(01:27:46):
were raised from that that are still unanswered, still kind
of you out there, and it makes me wonder if again,
somewhere along the line, Hope knows something about all of
that that ties it together and makes it very suspicious,
because is that not Also like the last place that

(01:28:07):
Trinny was reportedly seen at was that bathroom.

Speaker 3 (01:28:13):
Well, there's there's a couple of different stories. One fellow
that I've interviewed, he was his name is Daddy Johnson.
He was the one that mister Dunlap chose to help
search for Trenny when she was first discovered missing a
role call on the bus. So I've interviewed Danny, and

(01:28:36):
I mean, you know, I understand it's been many years.
It's it's easy enough to misremember things. And Danny was
dating a girl at the time named Stacy Martin, and
she was a track star at Beardon. Danny was also
a track star. He was very involved in track and field,
and he was also a photographer. Anyway, he was the

(01:29:00):
field trip that day, and so was Stacy. Now, when
I interviewed Danny, he told me that he actually joined
up with Robert Simpson and Trenny and walked back down
to the bus with them that day. They came back
down to the bus, he said, and then Trenny excused herself.
She has said she had to use the washroom. She

(01:29:20):
went to the washroom where the building was and just
never came back. That's how he tells the story. But
then when everyone gets on the bus and mister Dunlop notices, hey,
there's no Trenny, he gets some Danny. He tells Danny, Okay, Danny,
I need you to go back to the bold and

(01:29:41):
look for Trenny. And I said to Danny, if Trenny
disappeared like she went to the washroom and just never
came back, isn't that where you'd start point last scene?
Wouldn't it be like, hey, mister Dunlap, can you maybe
get one of the girls to check because she went
to the bathroom and never came never came back. But
I said, no, you just go okay, you just go

(01:30:03):
straight to Andrew's bolt to look for her there. It
didn't make sense. So then I tracked down Danny's girlfriend,
Stacy Martin, and she recollects that she was walking with Danny.
She's hiking with Danny on the trip, and she said

(01:30:23):
she and Danny were the first group that were back
to the bus, and they stood there just kind of
chatting with the bus driver and whatever till the other
students slowly started coming back down the down the hill
and into the bus and so on to get ready
to go back to Knoxville. Never once did she say

(01:30:46):
that Danny had been hiking with Robert Simpson and Trenny.
It was always she and Danny were together and they
were the first ones that were back. So I don't
know if somebody's trying to cover up something or they're
just not remembering things clearly, but that was Danny's recollection
was she disappeared at the washroom. So then Robert Simpson

(01:31:08):
told Hope that Trenny had taken her ring off in
the washroom when she was washing her hands, and he
gave it. She gave the ring to a girl in
the sophomore class to hold for her kind of thing,
And Trenny gave her comb to Robert Simpson to hold

(01:31:29):
for her kind of thing. And the comb was found
on the dash of his car, and it was Trendy's brother,
Bob that found it. The ring went from one sophomore
girl who originally was supposed to get it in the
bathroom to another sophomore girl, so somehow it got handed
off from one to the other. If that story is true,

(01:31:51):
And like I said to Hope, I said, I don't
know what teenage boy is an authority on girl's jewelry
and who gave what to who? But somehow Robert Simpson
seems to know who Triny gave her ring.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
To, right right. And see that's the reason why I
that it's very that part of the story is very
suspicious to me. It raises a lot of questions in
the long run. I feel like the connection to that

(01:32:28):
bathroom and Tony's disappearance and where it falls into in
line to the story itself, I feel like there's a
lot of incredibly unanswered questions revolving that particular point of
the story. Now, with that said, though, what are your

(01:32:54):
thoughts on Hope and her I guess I'm really trying
to sort out, you know, it was Hope the ringleader
of a really messed up plan. Was she really the

(01:33:15):
innocent person in all of this who just looked bad
because of the way she was trying to protect things
and protect people and so forth, or you know, is
there something more to Hope's involvement, to Bob's involvement, to

(01:33:36):
Simpson's involvement, and to the two boys that the training
was involved with at one point? Is there something more
there that we are just not getting at his point?

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
With regards to Hope, I don't think that she wants
anybody to find out anything and or talk about things
that would paint, you know, the family in a not
so favorable light, and they she didn't want Trenny painted

(01:34:15):
in a not so favorable light. And to a certain degree,
I understand that I've given these interviews a few times,
I've gotten some flak from people who say that I'm
trying to tarnish Trenny's memory, trying to tarnish her image,
And all I have to say to that is, you know,

(01:34:37):
this has gone on for more than fifty years, nearly
fifty years now, and I said it has touched a
lot of people. And I said it is harmed a
lot of people as well, you know, in trying to
paint this picture perfect family, it's it's impacted and to

(01:34:58):
a degree, ruined a lot of other other people's lives.
And I also say that, you know, sometimes when you
you can't find anything in the light, you have to
go search in the dark, and you have to go
places where you don't really want to go, but to
get to where you need to go, you got to
go there and you find out some stuff you'd rather

(01:35:20):
not know. But that's kind of collateral damage, and that's
the price that's that's got to be paid. I never
got into this to try to make anybody, anybody look bad,
only to find out what what happened to Trenny. I mean,
she wasn't a saint. She was just a young teenage girl.
But she deserved a lot better than what she got.

(01:35:44):
And there's a lot of Trenny's extended family they they
just want to know while while they're here on earth,
you know, what the hell happened to their their cousin
or their their niece. You know, they their friend. They
just want to know. Hope, I think, is content with
She's eighty six years old. Now she's content, you know.

(01:36:04):
And she passes on and goes to the great beyond,
well then she'll be reunited with with Trenny and and
that sort of thing. And and I say, that's all
fine and good, but it's it's not good enough for
the ones that are still on earth here and that
are missing her. I mean, I've only lived with this
for about twenty years, but what about her family and

(01:36:27):
friends that you know, have gone on with this for
nearly half a century now. And I can put it
away or shut it off if I have to, and
they can never get away from it. It's always there,
you know. They the family, They just want to know.
They just they don't care like you know, Bob did
something to Sow and Sow or whatever in nineteen seventies.

(01:36:50):
They don't care about stuff like that. They just want
to know what happened to Trendy, right, And Hope is
essentially and not being one hundred percent truthful, She's muddied
the waters in a lot of way, a lot of
a lot of ways, and she's you know, made a
take take a lot longer and having to you know,
take additional routes and re route things and go another

(01:37:14):
direction in order to try and try and find out,
to find out more and circumvent the the damage that
she's you know, that she's caused. And I suggested to
her too, this is when we were still talking a
few years back, that if she had Trenty legally declared dead,

(01:37:34):
you know, then we'd be able to get access to
all the information, we'd have everything. No, I can't do
that and whatever. And it's like, well, you you seem
to want to know what happened to her, and you
don't want to know what happened to her, and you know,
how how long are you going to let this go
on for?

Speaker 2 (01:37:56):
Right there?

Speaker 3 (01:37:57):
Again, there's no harm. There's no handbook or rule book
for how to how to deal with this kind of
thing when your child is missing. Uh So, I guess
that this in a way is kind of just her way,
but it's it's sure been hell for a lot of people,
let's put it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
That way, right exactly? Do you feel like, bottom line,
I guess with all of this, do you feel like
I mean, obviously, you know, when we talk about finding
justice for Trinny, that it's at this point in the game.

(01:38:37):
It's very long stretch. Uh. My understanding from our conversations
is that you feel like Trinny never actually left the park, Uh,
at least like in no.

Speaker 3 (01:38:52):
I I don't feel that. I don't feel that she
that she did. I I think that for some reason,
Trenny was accosted by a small group of students. I
believe Robert Simpson was involved either where he he ended

(01:39:14):
up blamed for it, but he wasn't one hundred percent
at fault to the point where he was. He was
kind of kind of there. She was accosted by a
small group of students. I don't know what she was
accosted over. That's what I'm I work on, you know,
and it's it's tedious trying to uncover what. I think

(01:39:38):
they took her belongings from her. I believe she was
wearing Robert's jacket at the time, and when somebody grabbed her,
the jacket, being as large as it was, they grabbed
the sleeves or the back of it, and she was
able to peel out of it, and she took off running,
and she went so far into the thickety under brush

(01:40:00):
in the park, that she she passed away there due
to the elements, they weren't able to find her, just
because she plunged so far in the undergrowth that she
couldn't get out again. And I think that that's that's
likely what happened. I a small part of me thinks

(01:40:21):
it's possible she could have left the left the park
by car, but I don't think it was a plan
thing where she got this this boyfriend to meet her
or or something like that. My thoughts are she might
have gotten away from these these kids and got in
a car with thinking that this person was going to

(01:40:43):
help her, and then that's where the that's where she
met her her end.

Speaker 2 (01:40:51):
See, that's what I wondered too. I wonder if maybe
that Hope is all very aware of this whole situation,
Know that she's aware of the fact that Triny's actions
caused some reactions with her peers, that there were there
was things that probably happened that day that should not

(01:41:15):
have happened as a result of that, and you for
the better part of all of the story. I wonder
if you know, perhaps Hope, you know in the final
outcome wasn't thinking, you know, but for the fact that

(01:41:39):
this that this is part of the reality that my
daughter was involved with with you know, people and things
that that made her unpopular with this group of people.
For the fact that they did what they did. You know,
my daughters would will be alive today had this not

(01:42:02):
happened and played out this way. But you I guess,
I guess for me trying to to you know, bring
this all home to a comfortable place, because we all
want the story to have a comfortable ending for us.
Somehow all of this thing to kind of like that
idea of comfort. It feels like to me that ultimately,

(01:42:32):
you know, this story ended the way it did predominantly
because you again, all of the butt four is, all
the things that happened, all the all the coincidences that
led to the outcome, you know, was not necessarily inevitable,

(01:42:56):
that that's how it did play out. And I feel
like Hope, kind of in her own way, you know,
she knew, she knew all of the things. She knew
the outcome was where is who did it?

Speaker 5 (01:43:17):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:43:18):
And I think, sorry to interrupt you, but I think
that likely Bob. When Bob was up at the at
thet in Gatlinburg that weekend when they were searching for
Trenny in the park. I think Bob found out something,
likely from from Robert Simpson. He was told something or

(01:43:42):
found out something, and he told Hope what what happened,
and Hope believed that that was likely the most logical
explanation for what happened to Trenny. And hard as it was,
she knew that she was gone and she wasn't gonna
was very likely she wasn't going to find her, wasn't

(01:44:05):
going to see her again, kind of kind of thing,
and she sort of resigned herself to that. I think
that's why Hope kind of stayed in the background and
stayed quiet while the search search went on and on,
because Hope knew that it was very likely that they
weren't going to weren't going to find anything. I think

(01:44:29):
Bob Bob heard something and confided it in her, likely
her he heard it from Robert Simpson. I don't think
he would have heard it from any of the searchers.
If it did, it's never seemed to come to light,
But I'm thinking Robert Robert Simpson told Bob, and then
Bob told his mother Now, Trenny's got that branch of

(01:44:52):
family with the uncles and cousin, and they always had
an inkling that Bob somehow was involved in it. Whereas
he went to the park that day, I don't one
hundred percent no, if I'm in on that. I I
don't know exactly why Bob would go to the park
unless he was desperate to find Trenny for some reason

(01:45:16):
and get her, get her out of there. But I
don't know why he would do that. Why he just
wouldn't you know, why they just wouldn't go somewhere from Knoxville.
I'm not sure. I know Bob wasn't one hundred percent
necessarily the most responsible person. But uh, I don't believe
he was in the park. But the cousin and the uncles,

(01:45:41):
they they believe Bob was in the park that day,
and likely Trenny got in a car with him.

Speaker 2 (01:45:49):
Yeah. I can't I can't see Trenny.

Speaker 3 (01:45:53):
I can't see Trenny even, you know, if she was wet, cold,
miserable on this damn field trip. You know up here
in the smoke, hees it's piss and rain, My hair's wet,
you know, my shoes are wet. My socks are wet.
You know, this is horrible, you know, get me the
hell out of here. She, you know, might have told

(01:46:15):
her teacher what she thought, you know, kind of kind
of thing. I can't see her, you know, thumbing her
nose at mister Dunlap, running across her brother standing off
trail and just getting in a in the car with
him and buggering off and leaving mister Dunlap hanging. I
can't I can't see that that happening so right, I

(01:46:40):
don't know why why Bob would go to the park
because he attended Bearden, he had just graduated in June.
Like you know, people would have would have seen him. Uh,
it would have stuck out like a like a sore thumb.
They would have recognized him and everything. So I really
can't see, like why why he would turn up there.

(01:47:02):
You know, I got some flak from that interview because
I get people, well, how the hell would he have
known where they were and all this, and blah blah blah.
And I said, well, I said, you know, you got
to remember, I said, the night before, mister Dunlap was
burning up the phone lines all over Knoxville looking for
a chaperone, I said, And it wasn't like he was

(01:47:24):
going to tell him, Hey, you know, I need you
to come with me on this field trip tomorrow. I
can't tell you where we're going till we're on the
bus ready to leave the school. Like you know that
that would never have happened. Of course, he would have
told him where they were going, so you know, people
would have found out that way. Secondly, it was very

(01:47:45):
very likely that the school would have known. So if
Bob wanted to find Trenny badly enough, if he went
to Bearden and said, hey, you know there's some kind
of emergency whatever, I have to find my sister, they
likely would have told them where the school trip had
had had gone. So, I mean, if he wanted to

(01:48:07):
find out badly enough, he could have. I just don't
see what the motive for him turning up at the
park would have been. And you know, the cousin and
the uncle said, well, the cigarettes, the cigarettes, and I'm like, well,
Bob wasn't the only one that would have smoked those cigarettes.
I mean, you know, the company managed to stay in
business without just Bob Gibson buying that brand of cigarettes.

(01:48:30):
And the same with the can of beer.

Speaker 2 (01:48:33):
So right now, I feel like there was a lot
of a lot of things pointed toward Bob that necessarily
was not not quite accurate in thought over this whole thing.

Speaker 3 (01:48:53):
But I tell people, you know, I said, Trenny's family
they've been missing her for nearly half a century. There
isn't a scenario that hasn't gone through their head, you know,
that they haven't thought of and wondered if that could
have been what happened to her. I said, there's there's
thousands upon thousands of different scenarios that they've they've come across,

(01:49:13):
and then this is just one of them. And I
said they knew Bob. I said, I never met the guy,
so they had their reasons potentially for thinking of that.
To me, having Bob at the park just makes it
a little too messy. I just don't know why he
would have he would have gone up there that day,
And I don't know why Trendy would a thunder knows

(01:49:35):
a done lap and then just got in the car
with Bob and took off.

Speaker 2 (01:49:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:49:41):
I did interview once student that was on the field trip,
and he said that Trendy left the parking lot and
and I said, well, did she leave the parking lot
before the hike or did she leave the parking lot
after you all came back from from hiking. Well, he
can't really remember. He did a lot of drugs in
those days, so things are a little hazy.

Speaker 2 (01:50:04):
Well, so.

Speaker 3 (01:50:08):
I would venture to guess he meant like after the
after the hike, I would hope so or else. A
lot of frickin' people have been lying, so.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
Right, Yeah, it does make you wonder altogether. So many
things make me wonder about this story. H Well, I
really appreciate that you came on to to throw some
light on on the characters behind this disappearance. There's so
many things about this case that just you know, questions, questions, questions.

(01:50:44):
It all just raises more questions sometimes than we get
answers for. And you know, just the amount of work
and time that you've put into all of this has
been phenomenal and it really does use It kind of
sheds a lot of light for me. Uh, I know

(01:51:06):
on some of those questions, are you know, where where
do these people? What point are these people you know,
players in the game, you know, and at what point
are these people suspicious? Characters in the game. Yeah, I

(01:51:27):
think it's very important that we were still.

Speaker 3 (01:51:30):
There's mister Dunlap. Some people, you know, questioned him, was
he a suspect. There's park rangers. I've had people ask,
you know, could it be possible it was one of them?
Of course, there's the William Bradford Bishop's story. You know,
could that have been connected to Trenny's disappearance. He was

(01:51:54):
that felon that murdered his family and he was hiding
in the park. That was in Arch of seventy six,
so it was around around this time of year. So
there's there's that thought too. Could Trenny have encountered him?
You know. There's there's also a few serial killers that

(01:52:16):
were were active in in and around that area at
the time, one being Joe Shepherd and Hope Gibson actually
contacted the authorities to see if they could look into
his whereabouts at the time and to see if he
could he could be a potential fit for for for

(01:52:41):
Trenny's disappearance. For lack of a better way to to
say it, Samuel Little is another one right now. He's
the one of the most prolific serial killers in America,
with sixty confirmed victims. Then the other one is Gary Hilton.
Now he wasn't really active that we know of till

(01:53:04):
around nineteen ninety seven, I believe, but he was the
guy that murdered that couple. They were like eighty and
eighty four years old. I think it was an seven
or eight. They were from the Carolinas. I can't remember
if it was North or South Carolina. But he murdered them.
He also murdered a young lady. He would approach women

(01:53:28):
usually he'd have a dog with them and then through
the animal he would kind of, you know, gain their
trust a little bit. He's unique in that he murdered male, female, young, old,
didn't matter sort of sort of things. There's also that
to consider as well.

Speaker 2 (01:53:47):
Yeah, there really is. There's a lot of things that Wow,
there's a lot of people that calling a question could
they have been part of this? Could they have been
a key factor in Tony's disappearance? And I think that

(01:54:09):
begs for even more research and time, as if we
need more reason to have research again, you've been You've
shed a lot of light on some very dark places
in this story tonight, and I think it's very helpful.

(01:54:31):
I think it's very important that we understand some of
these key players, their importance in the outcome of the story,
you know, and their importance in the future of the
research that goes into trying to understand this case. I'm

(01:54:54):
looking forward to working with you in the future on
getting absolutely getting some more information, yet more digging in
some of these dark corners to see what we can
pull out, and look forward to just really trying to
get to the bottom of this for once and for all,

(01:55:16):
because I think this is one of those cases that, yeah,
this is the case that begs for a definitive answer
at some point. So again, just thank you so much
for your time and energy in this and your investigation.
I I'm going to, I guess leave us to leave

(01:55:45):
you with the question, you know, as far as final
thoughts go for tonight, what if anything, do you feel
that we can learn from the story of Triny's appearents.

Speaker 3 (01:56:07):
Well, you got to you gotta, you know, love your children,
keep them close, but you also have to let them,
let them learn, and let them make their own mistakes
of course, to a to a degree, you know, and
and may the loss not go forgotten. You know this,

(01:56:28):
this story did happen many years ago. But uh, Trenny,
you know, she deserves deserves justice and and she deserves
not to be forgotten. And there's a lot of cases,
you know, when even from when I I was uh
on the scene as a as a young kid, early

(01:56:51):
mid eighties, that was kind of when things changed. Bills
were put into Congress where you didn't have to wait
forty eight hours to report someone missing anymore. People Trennye's age.
Back in the seventies, they were just looked at as
you know, they just ran away. They couldn't they couldn't
hack it or whatever. They just took off, ran away.

(01:57:14):
And they always seemed to run away to California. I
know the climate's better there, but that was always where
they where they seemed to take off and go. And
we know now that the that a lot of that
wasn't one hundred percent true. A lot of those a
lot of those kids met with with foul play and whatever.

(01:57:38):
But we also got to keep in mind it doesn't
seem to matter. I don't know if you you've heard,
but the Martin case, they were a family that went
missing in Oregon in the nineteen fifties. I guess there's
been a major development in their case today. I got
a notification on Facebook, so when we get off here,

(01:58:01):
I'll have to read that and see what happened. I
think they found the car.

Speaker 2 (01:58:06):
Wow, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:58:09):
I believe nineteen fifty eight or fifty nine they went
searching for Christmas greenery and the whole they all disappeared.
They found two of the girls, I want to say
about fifteen years ago. So somehow their father drove off
a cliff and into the water, and the car was
in such a place that they couldn't get to it

(01:58:32):
till now. And I think a team of divers have
gone out and they've recovered the car, so perhaps they
can find out if it was an accident or or
what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:58:45):
Hopefully, hopefully pretty interesting book.

Speaker 3 (01:58:48):
They wrote a book about the case a few years ago.
Maybe one day I'll write a book too.

Speaker 2 (01:58:53):
So that would be awesome, Actually, it would be very informative.
If you will hang out for a moment, I'm gonna
go and close this out for the night. I don't
know about everybody else, but I need a breather after
all this this was a lot too ingest Tonight, I

(01:59:15):
will I will be right back with you in just
a moment. Okay, all right, guys, While I'm telling you,
every time I have a conversation with Laura, I learn
more and more about this case. That makes me have
so so many unanswered questions. But it's important. This is

(01:59:41):
important to digest and for those of us who are
invested in some way or another in Trinny's story, this
is these discussions are vital. So I appreciate you guys
for hanging out with us tonight, for allowing is to
share with you this information. Take with it with you

(02:00:05):
what you will with this and hopefully in your research
into training and what happened whe her, this will somehow
bring about conclusions that you may have that are working
and vital conclusions. The my final thought for tonight for

(02:00:32):
you guys, you know, just be careful, be kind to
each other. Understand that the world we live in is crazy.
It's a scary place, it is a survivable place. And

(02:00:52):
as always, may your journey always be magical.

Speaker 3 (02:01:05):
Waiting for so long to see when you come back
to me through the walls and battles that were lost.

Speaker 8 (02:01:15):
We're born against you and me. The rest is history
pass passes.

Speaker 7 (02:01:44):
We danced together in different.

Speaker 1 (02:01:49):
Fifteen hundreds.

Speaker 2 (02:01:51):
How to end?

Speaker 3 (02:01:53):
We must still be loved, We must have been suffered
in our past life.

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Uncovering the Mystery: Laura Riste on the Missing 411 Case of Trenny Gibson

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