October 22, 2025 • 39 mins
Intrepid correspondents Graham and John Paul offer their cold takes on Taylor Swift's "The Life Of A Showgirl".
Wanna watch MLD on YouTube?
Need an MLD t-shirt or mug?
And everything else from Major Label Debut!
Wanna watch MLD on YouTube?
Need an MLD t-shirt or mug?
And everything else from Major Label Debut!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
From the Major Label Debut Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This is your MLD News.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm Graham, right and as everyone knows, MLD stands for
Major League Discourse, and we're here to talk today about
how this podcast, which is produced and created by one Torontonian,
one Los Angelino, and one Torontonian who moved to Los Angeles,
this podcast has become the nexus of the battle of
good and evil. God's Own Kissed by Destiny Toronto Blue
(00:32):
Jays against the perfidious championship buying Los Angeles Dodgers, as
represented by my co host as always on the news,
It's John Paul Bullock, John Paul.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
How does it feel to root for Satan's own team?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Dodgers Go Dodgers, Dodgers Forever. Shoyotani is amazing. We're going
to win and sadly you're going to lose, and sadly
you're going to cry.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I cried when we won.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
And let's just say the hosting chair of this podcast
is at stake.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
If you tune in two weeks from now and hear
a new.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Voice over the air, it's show Hao Tani's disgraced translator.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
He took the fall for.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
His alleged misdeeds. It's it's MLD news, it's major label debut.
That's our that's our baseball talk for we're talking baseball.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We gotta go back.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You did see him pitch six basically flawless innings, Yeah,
and then hit three home runs.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I have nothing but love and respect for show Hao Tani.
He should have come to Toronto and we're going to
show him why. But yeah, when you're the two best
baseball players ever in one man at the same time,
that's uh, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
My wife, who's a giant baseball fan obviously you know this,
she was like, he is a one man team. Yeah,
that is who he is. Yeah, and it's incredible. I
mean I've never seen anything like it before. Every time
he steps up, the potential of something incredible happening is there,
and I never experienced that in any sporting event. And
we're about to talk about a sports figure also in this.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
It's yeah, I am I guess I'm Tiamo Tani's what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, we wish each other luck and I'm sure we
will return to this topic again unless the Jays get
swept in form, which case we will never talk about basis.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I'm not wishing you luck.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I'm all Dodger like, I'm glad that you're going to
have this experience come along with us.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Well, we're in interesting opposite positions where my team is
on a classic Cinderella run. No one expected it. It
kind of came together really late in the regular season,
and to everyone's sort of delight and astonishment, they've gotten
farther than anyone thought possible, including the Seattle Mariners, who
were the other kissed by Destiny team finally back in
(02:47):
the postseason that they stood in our way so had
to be destroyed. Whereas the Dodgers are built to win championships,
they are sort of the they're starting from on top.
They presumably are the odds on extreme favorite. And you
know we're here today because we said that we would
talk about more new content, A new heater down the middle,
(03:08):
one might say, or is it a slow meat ball
right through the strike zone by another championship team built
to succeed, built for hundreds of millions of dollars of
commerce to come in and go out. I'm talking of
course about Taylor Swift, also a one woman team of
like music industry and we said on our last MLT
(03:31):
news taping that we would both listen to her new record,
The Life of a Showgirl, which neither of us, I
think otherwise was really seeking out.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And unlike ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Where you'd hear shake it Off or whatever at the
grocery store or the right aid, the Taylor Swift music
is no longer crossing my desk without my express intent,
and so we expressly intended to do it. And we
listened to the new Taylor Swift album, The Life of
a show Girl, and we're going to talk about it.
This is sort of our two week late cold take
(04:02):
that I'm intentatively calling it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And I'm not sure where to begin.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I guess I'll just start by asking you, John Paul Bullock,
just start talking about Taylor Swift in a new record,
you know, let me cue you sure.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Number One, I had a stress dream about doing this
podcast last night, like a legit I was, I really like,
felt bad and woke up upset. And number two, the
reason why her music isn't coming across in the grocery
store anymore is because there ain't no hits. And look,
(04:35):
Taylor Swift is incredible in so many ways and This
is not a personal attack on her. I am going
to say some negative things about the music on this record,
but one thing is for sure is that nobody is
doing this kind of parasocial conversation with her fan base
(04:56):
as well as this person. She has essentially created this
new way of being a fan and it is incredible.
I mean, and this album really does suffer from the
fact that it's just her talk singing a bunch of
stuff from her life to her core fans, and there's
(05:19):
not much in the way of like hook driven pop songwriting.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It's just a lot of.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Vaguely complaining songs with cheap literary references and outdated slang.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It sounds kind of cheap and tacky.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
And the character that she plays in her public life
and on stage and characters I guess, like, you know,
she kind of addresses that here with referencing all of
these other famous women and the idea of like father
figures and all these kind of roles that people play
in other people's lives. I don't know if it's her
(06:00):
well in terms of like having pop hits on the
radio or that play, you know, the music version. I
don't think we're going to hear a music version of
the Fate of Ophelia at the grocery store in ten
years from now. But at the same time, I do
think that this does the thing that she's set out
to do, which is to express to her fans in
(06:20):
a very basic way, a narrative, and that narrative is
a movement from the last collection of songs to this
collection of songs. What's sort of, in a very general
way happening with her and her you know, fiance, and
how she's settling past scores.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
There's a lot of that too. There's a lot of like,
there's a little bit of revenge some of this which
I found very But.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I'm happy to go track by track with you. I
feel like I'm just rambling at this point now. But
this person contains multitudes. I find her endlessly fascinating. This
is not a very good.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Album she's fasting to talk about, and I feel whether
this is just my own stress stream, internal monologue manifesting,
or it's real, you know. I suspect that the target
listenership of this podcast maybe contains more than a few
people who are going to see the fact that we're
talking about Taylor Swift and roll their eyes and say,
am I not safe anywhere from this Taylor Swift thing?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But I think the answer is you're not. And that's
kind of the point.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And Taylor Swift is like, you know, she's like Jupiter
or the Sun in the solar system of the music industry,
and she bends gravity all around her, and you know,
we all know about her, and people are sick of
hearing about her because of the immensity of her reach.
And I think you really put your finger on it
in terms of it being sort of this like innovative
(07:43):
way to weaponize that parasocial relationship. And you know, Taylor
Swift is like anyone who ascends to that level of
pop culture ubiquity, an avatar of the zeitgeist, and the zeitgeist.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Right now sucks fucking ass. And so of.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Course Taylor Swift is going to for guys like you
and me and folks who listen to this podcast probably,
I'm guessing, I'm assuming for all our Swifty fans out there.
Thank you for listening to our interview with Dave Alvin.
I hope you got a lot out of it. But
that's not what we got into liking music for. Even
though we all, like I had a parasocial relationship with
Radiohead for fifteen solid years from the age of thirteen
(08:18):
through twenty eight. And you know, I saw Jeff Tweety
play in Toronto the other night, and that's like, there's
obviously an aspect to any relationship any of us has
with any artist that we like, because we live in
a time where the artists and the songwriter and like
the you know, it's the sort of oti thing. We
all have a bit of that, and to look at
it so nakedly with the Taylor Swift thing, I think
is instructive for the way that we all interact with art,
(08:40):
and also the ways in which sometimes you can put
out an album that maybe is kind of a turkey
but serves different needs. And the fact that Taylor Swift
is so huge, but I don't think she even needs
radio anymore, you know. And she's an artist that came
up in the traditional way. She came out of Nashville,
she came out of the country world, she crossed over CDs,
concert tickets, and now in this world of concert tickets
(09:03):
and humongous, you know, billion dollar grossing tours, it seems
like mostly this is all designed now to point towards
whenever the next time Taylor Swift does a tour. Is
also very interesting that, unlike how I came up, she
just did the highest profile tour of my honestly that
I've been aware of in my lifetime, that eras tour,
(09:24):
She did it, finished it, and then she put out
this record almost as like capitalizing on the Typically you
put it a record and then you go on tour.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Where I come from is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Anyway, she's sort of like, look at her either reinventing
how to be that kind of a superstar or being
surfing the wave of reinvention that's happening in the industry anyway,
And I think, you know, I haven't talked about the
music at all yet, and honestly, I kind of liked it.
I don't think I'm going to put it back on.
I think it's not really for thirty eight year olds,
(09:55):
like in terms of emotional complexity and what the songs
are about. But I really didn't like those National Guy records.
I recently had an argument was one of my nieces
about this, but I was like, they just like, it's
not good pop music, it's not good indie music. It
doesn't interest me. This at least sounds like the Taylor
Swift that I always dug, and you know, the she
(10:15):
has a way of singing, in a way of vocalizing
and writing lyrics that when it works for me, I
really think no one else is doing it like that.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's kind of like another controversial pop culture Titan Drake.
I'm like, I don't know, No, no one sounds like
that when they sing.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
No one puts their melodies in that order except this person.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
It's very identifiable, and I respect that as a musician.
And there's a few times on this record where I
really was bop in my head, you know, there's that
what's it called ruin? The Friendship was the one that
really stuck out to me, which was kind of an
old fashioned, like Nashville both Nashville sounding and also Nashville
referencing story song that like when on a journey, and
(10:54):
I instantly understood the emotion I was supposed to feel,
the story I was being told, the journey I was
going on with the singer, And I think that's Taylor
Swift should be able to do that at this point,
especially with access to like the supercomputer of songwriting genius
that you know that she has access to that's Max
Martin in that whole world. But still to hear it,
(11:14):
I was reminded that, like, oh yeah, absent all the context,
absent all the parasociality, which I am fortunate enough to
really not know anything about. I know that she is
engaged to Travis Kelce, and I know that she has
some kind of social conflict with Charlie XCX, and that's
(11:35):
I'm good with that, And just to listen to it
as music worked really well, except when the lyrics were
like if you don't know what's going on with the
Charlie XCX thing, the song is insane. You know, if
you put this in a time capsule for a thousand
years and it comes out without context, I would love
to know what people would make of it. So that's
my own sort of like spaghetti rant about the Tailor's.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Funny that you were going to get to ruin ruin.
The friendship I think was one of the creepiers, just
like I mean, it's definitely like the subject of that song.
If it is a true story, She's not playing a
character in this song. If it is like we were
at the lake and I didn't kiss you, and I
wish i'd kiss you. It's a weird thing for like
(12:19):
a thirty five year old woman who is engaged to
someone else to be expressing to like one person and
then sharing that sort of without their permission to hundreds
of millions of people. Just in basic research and listening
to each of these tracks, I was like, oh that,
(12:40):
like if you go on genius or one of those websites,
lyrics websites, it immediately says the man's name that this
is supposedly about, and it's not a famous person, like
it's just some dude, you know, Like yeah, well, I
mean he's probably famous because of his association with this
person in with Taylor Swift, But I don't know. I mean,
(13:02):
I I hear you. I understand how it can be enjoyable.
I also understand how it can be kind of baffling.
And with the Charlie XCX thing, we'll get there. But
do you want to just like go track by track
and talk about it or that was the Is that
too much?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I don't think we need to go track It's like
pretty long, and you know, there was a couple of
standouts for me what really caught your attention, what were
you excited to talk about it?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Well, I think the first two songs, Fate of Aphelia
and Elizabeth Taylor, are like an interesting pairing of things
about Taylor Swift's identity as I creative identity as I
know it, because obviously don't know as a person.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
But like you know, Fateophilia had I remember.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Taylor Swift from that love story song that's Romeo and
Juliet song. And so the next the lead single on
this thing, is like another Shakespeare reference, high school, middle
school reference to it. And I mean, I just I
cannot help but think like, if you, as a songwriter,
wrote a song that's like I feel just like Hamlet,
(14:08):
you would people would be like, what are you doing?
You know, like it is you can't. No, You're not
allowed to do that, It's against the rules. But also
I do think that in the time of No Kings
and we're trying to reevaluate whatever the American dream is,
this song firmly places her character or whoever she plays publicly,
(14:31):
as like a noble woman. And I also think it's
like a misunderstanding of what happened to Ophelia, and like
and and mental health and her agency versus this woman
from hundreds of years ago who was in a much
different situation. And I just also like the all the slight,
like to keep it one hundreds and bad.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
You know, like that stuff really greats for me. I
find that really there's that piano. I can't remember where
it falls and the sequencing or even the name. I
listened to this on the subway, so I wasn't looking
at stutt track titles, but you.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Know, there's like a classic album moment.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I really recognize something that I always love on an
album that it's very similars, just like there was like
a fast song and then the fast song ended and
you heard like a slow, beautiful sounding piano come in,
and you just your body knows, okay, it's time to
slow down a bit. It was a lovely, not revolutionary,
but lovely piano based melody. But the whole first verse
was like about like memes and posting and hot takes
(15:27):
much like these, what's that line?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I mean, it is the cold take.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I think we should we should try to pull it
for for this series where I think it's like I
wrote it down, It's basically like every single hot take
is cold as Ice.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yes, that's it, Like that's just I mean, I mean,
I guess that's just a matter of taste.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
But that's tough.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I don't that kind of like I hate hearing it's
like how the cell phones and movies sucks the Internet
in music, it's not impossible to write interestingly about. And
I'm sure there's people out there doing like a really
cool job of incorporate that, but I just find it
to be it just instantly makes me shut my ears
and shut my heart, and especially in like a beautiful
ballad your Taylor swift right, like a beautiful unrequited love song,
(16:10):
you know, like it's not rocket science.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I don't want to hear about the internet. But that's
my opinion. I mean, I think the.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Same thing that Elizabeth Taylor, like the next song, it
has that kind of like I don't know, there's a
lot of like comparison is the thief of joy and
it invites derision and like, don't compare yourself. You're an icon, Taylor,
like you're not. Don't compare yourself to another icon from
a different era that's obviously cooler than you and obviously
(16:36):
like it just.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Comes off bad.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
And this whole idea like the Hollywood Hates Me that
she leans into really that in Fatoophilia.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I like the omnichord in this.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I think that the chorus is good, like the big
bombastic chorus.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It's sort of the.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Only song on this album that has like kind of
one of those throwback courses to the like nineteen eighty nine,
like the big athemic moments in her past catalog.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But like I just I.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Feel like there's a lot of complaining moments in here,
and then there's a lot of songs like Opalite and
that are like I dated a bunch of jerks and
now I've got Travis or whatever, and yeah, this is
and it's just weird. But I do think that, like
she does a number of other things that I find
like that Father Figure song that interpolates the George Michael
(17:25):
like Shaboozi style, like let's just take a great old
song and do like kind of a shittier version of it.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Is Like I hate that so much, Like don't do that.
You don't have to do that.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You're surrounded by like the world's greatest technicians who can
help you bring your vision to reality. Don't just take
a d and she's done another riff on that before.
I was reading about that, like that drived me insane,
Like I thought, the the the Charlie XCX stuff, Oh.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Come on, like do you listen you listen to that song? Yeah?
So I don't know. I don't care about their personal lives.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I gotta say as like a fuck you dis track
the notion, like just emotionally of saying like, that's adorable,
you're in love with me? I just I've never heard
it put that way in a song before, and in
terms of like an angle that works for it. It
caught my attention and I and again I understood it.
You know, it's it's obviously direct and clear. Is not
a high bar for a Taylor Swift record to clear,
(18:20):
but it worked on me.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I mean, it is the Mariah Carey why you're so
obsessed with me? Yeah? True, I guess, and I do think.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It is also the like I don't know if this
is how real this is or this is being just
being too like it feels a little homophobic, Like it
does feel a little like she's like, you love me
more than any man ever has.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And obviously Charlie's.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Camp or whatever is more openly queer and that's the
world that she's in, and I don't know, I mean,
it's it just seems kind of mean and petty and look.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Too to Bratt. I really liked Bratt a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I think it's a great record, and Charlie for the
first time, I think, really does a bunch of this
Taylor parasocial stuff where she kind of like almost every
track is about a different woman in her life, and
you know, it's I think Charlie's song is one of
like insecurity, and you know that.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I think Charlie toured opening for Taylor Swift.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
They're obviously in the same adjacent social circles in some cases.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I don't know if that's the case now, but you
know Jeff Bezos' wedding attendees, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Totally like people who are eating human flesh and on
Epstein's Islands or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Owl worshiping bohemian grove. Actually, I don't know if they
let women into behaving fair So that's a bad there
must be there at this point. Taylor Swift must have
bought an island and found it kind of like all
woman bohemian grove, and we salute her for it. Yeah,
you're at MLD. We support Bohemian grove too.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
But actually a romantic makes Charlie's stuff look like a
master work and way more sensitive and way more sophisticated.
And then the rest of this there's that song about
I assume it's about Travis Kelce's dick.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Like it seems to you're really supposed to think it's
about Travis Kelcey's dad.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And it's like the song is literally called wood and
it's like it has it also has that like I
mean again in the age of It's like it's got
the like Jackson five opening to it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, you're like, oh, what what is this?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Like that's been really fun for the session players to like.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
La I associate this with like a child performer, which
is like the weirdest, Like it doesn't mean it's.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Not a good moment.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And then that the then also I do think there's
a lot of dog whistle like that next song that's
like the canceled song, Like I do think like cancelation
is fake and that this whole idea of taking a
stance against cancelation is.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Like just not real low hanging fruit.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, and just uh that to me, I was just like,
what is this song actually, and the funniest thing is
like the kind of low key feminism of Honey and
the next song, I was like, oh, I like this
is cool, Like I like that she's being like, you're
the only person that's allowed to have this kind of
intimacy with me. But the last song and the like
(21:19):
the thematic tie in rap around or whatever, the Sabrina
Carpenter featuring Life of a Showgirl, it really does seem
like those two women just like watch the Giacopola movie
from last year and they're like, we should make a
song about.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
This, and then just like did it. I don't know
if that's the case of it, but like, having gone.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Through this, I was just like, oh man, I feel
genuine sorrow for this person.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And then also like.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I'm not sure if that's a direct result of like
these creative decisions that she's made, and if this person
is not this person at all, and she's like a
diabolical genius, which I'm sure she kind.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Of is right, you don't get this far without being
a babolical genius. And I say that as a compliment
to Taylor Swift. You know, play you gotta the player's
gonna play. Hate the game and other such bromides, some
of which come from our songs.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
But where's the hit?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, I didn't hear it, but I think and this
is maybe, you know, by way of transitioning out of
the Taylor Swift portion of this conversation, what a hit
on a Taylor Swift record means in twenty twenty five
seems to be something so different than what it meant
in twenty ten. Last time, I was really like plugged
(22:32):
into that world that I almost feel like, well, I
enjoyed listening to the record and talking to you about it.
Engaging with like top forty pop music for teenagers is
just like outside of my ability to really wrap my
head around anymore. Maybe some of these songs are perfectly
set up for TikTok or for wherever people you know
in the Taylor Swift target demo are meeting their music now,
(22:54):
And I don't know that that is necessarily songs that
are on the radio anymore, especially given the fact that
I'm sure Taylor Swift can email radio any piece of
music and they'll play it.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Well, is this music for teenagers?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I mean, Elizabeth Taylor, like, is that a song that
a fourteen year old's gonna be like, yes, I remember
this actress from fifty years ago.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, I think it's that like you go on Instagram
or on TikTok and you see all of this culture
from the past that was antiquated can now be sort
of like you can pick these little esthetic pieces out
of it and say, Elizabeth Taylor that now is like
an archetype. And I don't there may literally be an
Elizabeth Taylor viral video that we don't know about, and
if there's not there easily could be. And I think
(23:35):
that Taylor Swift has often been plugged into that notion
of like this album is kind of like scrolling vertically
endlessly through like, oh here's an old timey reference. Oh
here's like a modern reference. Oh here's a hot take.
Oh here's a controversial diss. Oh here's like a little
bit of warm, fuzzy love. I guess you could say
any album provides that experience, but it does really seem
(23:56):
to like they hit my brain in the same place now.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
But that might just be because middle aged. Well.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I also, I just don't think there's like the kind
of hooks that like I think of post Malone as
being like the first guy I recognized where it's like, oh,
they're putting the chorus as the first fifteen seconds of
every single one of these songs because that is how
they are monetizing these things online.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
But these songs don't seem to have that to me.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
No, there's a lot of slow starts, and there's not
a lot of like sharp hooks that I feel like
could be edited into those moments you're talking about where
you're like poll quotes or whatever.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, and like even just like a lyrical hook that
is universal.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
You know, I was a totally different band.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
But I've been really shocked, or not shocked maybe, but
like fascinated recently by how that Radiohead song let Down,
which is like an okay computer deep cut that they
don't play live, has become like their biggest song because
it became a TikTok thing and you can hear in
that song there even though the lyrics are about like
a crushed bug on the ground and like Tommy York's
you know, sort of nineties dystopian rantings that no of
(25:00):
like let Down, and the way the music is underneath
it and it's sent you know, that's that's something that
I think anyone can sort of intuitively understand and it's
plainly universal in a certain way that a lot of
the tailor stuff is so specific to her. It's like
this is about it's by Taylor Swift, It's about Taylor Swift,
and it's four swift Ease. But maybe again, maybe there's
(25:20):
just it's such a big ecosystem now that she can
preach to that choir and be the biggest artist in
the world without having to like activate new fans.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Well, it's interesting too because the I looked on Spotify
last night and I could see that Life of Fate
of Ophelia excuse me, had two hundred and fifty million streams,
and then every other track was substantially less like they were.
It was like it dropped off by at least one
hundred million.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I think that like Elizabeth Taylor had like one to
fifty or something like that, which edic I mean honestly though,
it's like that's not a good way of measuring anyone's
success for anything, but that that is the experience. It
was sort of a graph of the experience I had
listening to this record, which is like halfway through Fate
of Ophelia, I was kind of like, I have to
(26:09):
make a podcast about this and say what you means
things that I don't want to do, and I agreed
to do this. And look, I like this idea of
cold takes, and I like this idea of talking about
pop music in this way, and I think we'll get
more sophisticated threats and look in the world where all
press is good press. I hope that our little half
(26:31):
hour here has will help Taylor Swift in some way.
But of the few thousand people who are listening to this,
we love you, Thank you for listening to this. And
from a production standpoint, what's your biggest takeaway from it?
Did it feel like entirely in the box, like a
thing made in logic, and it didn't seem like this
(26:51):
like a live instrument album, But I'm sure there is.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
The acoustic guitars I really noticed sounded great. And again
I think if you're Taylor Swift and you have the
kind of budget and expertise to a record and the
acoustic guitars don't sound great, that's maybe a bigger problem.
But I noticed they sounded great, and I liked how
the drums sounded, although that kind of like dead drum sound.
Could like I have a sample pack I bought from
an Instagram advertisement that basically is that sound. I just
(27:17):
assume with records like that, And I've even made like
indie records like this, where you spend most of your
money and most of your time like getting the drums
sounding amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
And like performed amazing.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
You get them all perfect, and then you go through
meticulous or you replace all of them with samples anyway,
so I imagine it's probably something like that where a great
drummer did a week of great drumming in the nicest
studio in Nashville or LA, or like on the Taylor
Swift private Bohemian Grove, two Island, and then like, none
of the actual sound from that performance is anywhere near
(27:50):
the record. But that's just speculation. I don't have any
inside info, but I I thought it sounded good. It
sounded like it made sense to me. It's an incoherent lyrically,
it had a lot of like distracting contemporary references, but
unlike some of the more recent tailor records I found,
there was less like contemporary sonic trend. It sounded a
little more time timeless, or like not rooted in an
(28:14):
incredibly specific moment versus something like Trouble, which has that
like dubstep kind of chorus that just every single song
for three years had and then no one ever cared
about ever again until it comes back next year. And
this one didn't have that, which works for me. I
think I like her in that like classic ish. Even
when she is aping the Jackson five, it's like, well,
(28:34):
at least this sounds like Yeah, it's like the sum
total of like recorded popular music from the seventies through
aughts and like shined to a beautiful polish.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Can we talk about the omnichord being used on those
first two songs and the like as the kind of
bridge as like it does have this childlike princess magic
coal feeling to it that I love, I love that
I wish. This is a pro omnichord podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
The proto Tokyo Police Club band that we formed in
high school, which actually formed in grade eight by me
and my friend Will Curry. The only instruments we had
access to were an old cassio tone which is next
to me right now and is on a bunch of
Tokyo Police Club songs because I stole it from Will,
and an omnichord. Yes, and so before I knew that omnichord,
you know, before Damon Alburn used the omnichord.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Setting one or whatever it is. That's right, Suburbia was
pioneering the use of it.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
And I only wish that we'd recorded it and so
people had proof of our genius.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I I'm sure it was great. There's still time. There's
still time.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Grim Yeah, I should see if that thing's still kicking around.
I could steal that too. Anyway. So that's the life
of a show girl. That was fascinating to do.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I'm also Sabrina Carpenter killed it on SNL this weekend,
and I'm glad that she's being elevated by Taylor at
the end of this record, because I think that she's
really cool pop star and both those two like they
make an interesting pairing.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, and an interesting Taylor Swift is an establishment figure. Now,
she's been doing this for twenty plus years, so crazy
to think that now, Okay, there's a whole new class
coming up, not just Underneather, but like twenty years underneath
or and Sabrina Carpenter seems to me to be very
representative of that. Okay, should we talk about Halloween music
for like a few minutes and then sign off. This
(30:26):
is a long MLD news, but it's also an important
MLD news.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
The first of a new series, the.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
First of a new series called the Blue Jays Kick Ass.
It's Halloween season. Yeah, the ghouls and the ghosts are out.
And we were talking off the mic about putting together
a John Paul Bullock for anyone that doesn't know and
that maybe some of you is a great maker of playlists.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
As long as I've known you have been putting music together.
I'm sure as longer than I've known you, you've been
doing that. And you were talking about maybe creating some
kind of like Halloween music playlist, which I think is
interesting because of all the holidays with which music is associated,
Halloween music is the funniest and therefore, in a lot
of ways, like the least to be considered seriously. And
(31:14):
yet you never don't consider music seriously, as we just
heard from your analysis of that Taylor record. So I
want to hear your thoughts about what you're planning for
this spooky playlist.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I think I want to do at least twenty spooky
songs released or reissued during this year since last Halloween.
So from November one, twenty twenty four to the night
All Hallows Eve of twenty twenty five, we get a
bunch of stuff. You know, It's funny as I started
(31:45):
to compile it, it is a lot of instrumental surf
guitar stuff because that's what I've been into. And not
only that, but surf people embrace spooky season with both arms.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
And it is just that.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I think it's just that that it naturally reverb is
naturally spooky sounding.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
The sea is the most ancient and evil place there is.
To quote a very important figure in my life. I
hate the sea and everything in it.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You know, even the beginning of Wipeout by friend of
the show Barbary melberry Hill is like, thank you, Barbary
Hill is like a maniacal cackle that sounds like that
is used on The Simpsons as like a frightening sound
effect when Sycho Bomb dedicates that song to bart And
so you're right, and it is this. It's like a
love crafty and horror that goes.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
It's the scariest.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
It's the the unknowable depths, darkness and and monsters beneath
you know, so there there are there's a lot of
instrumental serve guitar on there so far. Yeah, if you
have suggestions and you hear this tomorrow when we were
gonna put this out, please also put those in the comments.
(33:05):
I'll try to deploy it, I guess on Thursday or
Friday then, so that we get it. You got a
full week of spooky music before you go out and
get your candy with your pillowcase. I loved doing this,
and I would love to do more of these, like
Rick Biato style. Look at what's happening in popular culture
right now. It's interesting to me that this Taylor record,
(33:29):
I was like, I was kind of hoping that there
would be a something.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Kind of spooky or sad on here. I don't know why.
And Life of a show Girl is kind of dark,
like there's a real.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Like the the album ends on a note that's like
basically like they leave girls like us to die, you know,
and we're going to try to reclaim it. But there's
kind of and it starts with Life of Maybe this
is secretly kind of a horror album. The Fate of Aphelia.
I do think of Aphelia as a uh, you know,
(34:01):
obviously a tragic figure.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
So trench into analysis as you can always expect your
mess her major label debut.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
It's a horror This is Taylor's this horror album as
what I'm saying. Actually, I think the last one might
kind of be a horror album a little bit. There's
there's horrific moments in it.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Right, What was the last one? The one of the two?
Bryce Destner? No, she made a record since then, didn't she? Wait?
Am I completely wrong? Oh? I don't know. That just
feels like it was so long ago. Folklore and ever Evermore.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Wasn't there like another like you know, yes, there was
computer record, well like those are like you know, tape records. Yeah,
and then they have guitars and the wind on them.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
So she's had Taylor Swift, Fearless, Speak Now Red nineteen
eighty nine, reputation, Lover Folklore ever More.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Midnights, Midnights that was it, and no.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
No, and then the tortured Poets Department, Oh my god,
wow for sure. Gro So, Yeah, she just keeps going.
Turner Poet's Apartment might also be hard. Maybe there is
the thread of horror that's running through all of Taylor
Swift's work, and we should investigate that we should do
another Taylor Swift horror podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I'm ready. Actually, I kind of never want to talk
about Taylor Swift again.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I don't really see it being a value add for
us going forward. I'm gonna get a lot of love mail.
I thought that was so interesting. I was glad to hear.
You know, normally I listened to Soul Asylum, but I
was so thrilled to finally hear two men take Taylor
Swift seriously. Nevertheless, it's fun to do and listen if
you love music and have worked in and around music
(35:38):
like we both do and have the biggest artists are
inevitably important to you. And the fact that I don't
listen to Taylor Swift's records and like I you know,
I really like nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I went down that whole road.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I was all about it at that moment when everyone,
you know, all the indie bands are getting too pop,
and you know, the records have lots of great stuff
on them, but I don't know, whatever, It's not for me,
and I don't feel any obligation to go be there
out of some like misplaced sense of duty to the
pop culture. I'm not trying to be Taylor Swift, and
so I'm happy to leave it for her to enjoy.
(36:11):
And I will say, by way of bookending this conversation
with some more sports talk, it does sound a bit like,
you know, being on top of the world in an
unbeatable Titan and then whining and complaining like.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You're the underdog.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
She may be picked up a few pointers from her
new buddies Travis and Patrick Monds.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
It is. It is complaining.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I'm not sure I like as a cultural movement, complaining
is something I can get behind.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Well, it's fucking prevalent, so to it. I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Everybody is whining, both politically, both sides wine wine wine.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Am I whining about whining right now?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I think it's inevitable. I'm whining about whining about whining.
This is getting very meta and it's been forty minutes.
It's our best episode ever, is what I mean to say.
And I'm just flying high with them, Jay's that's that's
the important thing.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Well, I didn't mean to sound callous earlier, and I
do wish you good luck. I know that it will
be hard for you when you lose, but it will
be a good learning experience.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I think, Graham.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
If there's one thing people in Toronto sports do not
have a lot of experience with, it's brutal, disappointing losses
in the postseason. So that will be a learning experience. Indeed,
John pa Book, thank you for the time you spent
listening to and thinking about Taylor Swift The Life of
a show Girl. Thank you for your love of playlisting
and the horror playlist you're about to make. And thank
you for being a friend and co host.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Oh that makes me feel great. Thank you, Graham. I
appreciate that this was truly It was truly difficult, and
I felt really bad about it. I felt bad the
whole time. I felt bad. As I was listening to it,
I was like, do I have to just say mean
things about this woman's I don't know? And look, I
love doing this view and I want to do more
of it, So kind to get better at not feeling
(37:57):
bad about that. No one cares except for you and
me and the two three thousand people who are listening
to this.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
And look for what it's worth to our one fan
who's a Dave Alvin head slash swifty. If you take
music seriously and treat it with respect, sometimes that means
you got to talk a little shit. And so we
only do it because we love Taylor and support her
and we're angling for an invitation on her jet. This
is true anytime, Taylor. I'm a great pass and German,
nice guy bunny. I got stories. I can fit in
(38:22):
with a lot of kind of crowds.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I can work the barbecue at that island like nobody's business.
Thank you Graham for doing this with me. This is
really fun.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, this is what it's all about. This is why
we started this podcast, just to get you this moment.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Almost one year. Thank you all for listening to this.
There's so much more we've got coming, so many good episodes. Yeah,
thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, anniversary special come in next week. But for now,
thank you for listening to Major Label Debut and MLD News.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
The podcast is produced.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
By my second mic and dear friend and colleague, John
Paul Bullock.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Tip of the hat, Thank you Graham, Thank you Graham.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Also produced by Josh Hook, who is the synthesis between
the Toronto Blue Jays and the Los Angeles Dodgers as
a transplanted Torontonian in Los Angeles, so he will be
the tiebreaker and he'll be happy no matter what happens.
Art the music is by the wonderful Greg Allsop. Greg
You're the King. Please continue to like, subscribe, follow, reach out,
(39:21):
comment press buttons. Help the algorithm make us as famous
as Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
The tailor Swift of podcasting.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
That's what they're calling major label debut, and you've been
listening to it. We will return with more tails and
spooky creaky doors sounds from the intersection of art and commerce.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Go Blue Jays, Go Dodgers, Fuck Josh, edit that out.
From the Major Label Debut Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This is your MLD News.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm Graham, right and as everyone knows, MLD stands for
Major League Discourse, and we're here to talk today about
how this podcast, which is produced and created by one Torontonian,
one Los Angelino, and one Torontonian who moved to Los Angeles,
this podcast has become the nexus of the battle of
good and evil. God's Own Kissed by Destiny Toronto Blue
(00:32):
Jays against the perfidious championship buying Los Angeles Dodgers, as
represented by my co host as always on the news,
It's John Paul Bullock, John Paul.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
How does it feel to root for Satan's own team?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Dodgers Go Dodgers, Dodgers Forever. Shoyotani is amazing. We're going
to win and sadly you're going to lose, and sadly
you're going to cry.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I cried when we won.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
And let's just say the hosting chair of this podcast
is at stake.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
If you tune in two weeks from now and hear
a new.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Voice over the air, it's show Hao Tani's disgraced translator.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
He took the fall for.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
His alleged misdeeds. It's it's MLD news, it's major label debut.
That's our that's our baseball talk for we're talking baseball.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We gotta go back.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You did see him pitch six basically flawless innings, Yeah,
and then hit three home runs.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I have nothing but love and respect for show Hao Tani.
He should have come to Toronto and we're going to
show him why. But yeah, when you're the two best
baseball players ever in one man at the same time,
that's uh, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
My wife, who's a giant baseball fan obviously you know this,
she was like, he is a one man team. Yeah,
that is who he is. Yeah, and it's incredible. I
mean I've never seen anything like it before. Every time
he steps up, the potential of something incredible happening is there,
and I never experienced that in any sporting event. And
we're about to talk about a sports figure also in this.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
So that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
It's yeah, I am I guess I'm Tiamo Tani's what
I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, we wish each other luck and I'm sure we
will return to this topic again unless the Jays get
swept in form, which case we will never talk about basis.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I'm not wishing you luck.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I'm all Dodger like, I'm glad that you're going to
have this experience come along with us.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Well, we're in interesting opposite positions where my team is
on a classic Cinderella run. No one expected it. It
kind of came together really late in the regular season,
and to everyone's sort of delight and astonishment, they've gotten
farther than anyone thought possible, including the Seattle Mariners, who
were the other kissed by Destiny team finally back in
(02:47):
the postseason that they stood in our way so had
to be destroyed. Whereas the Dodgers are built to win championships,
they are sort of the they're starting from on top.
They presumably are the odds on extreme favorite. And you
know we're here today because we said that we would
talk about more new content, A new heater down the middle,
(03:08):
one might say, or is it a slow meat ball
right through the strike zone by another championship team built
to succeed, built for hundreds of millions of dollars of
commerce to come in and go out. I'm talking of
course about Taylor Swift, also a one woman team of
like music industry and we said on our last MLT
(03:31):
news taping that we would both listen to her new record,
The Life of a Showgirl, which neither of us, I
think otherwise was really seeking out.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And unlike ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Where you'd hear shake it Off or whatever at the
grocery store or the right aid, the Taylor Swift music
is no longer crossing my desk without my express intent,
and so we expressly intended to do it. And we
listened to the new Taylor Swift album, The Life of
a show Girl, and we're going to talk about it.
This is sort of our two week late cold take
(04:02):
that I'm intentatively calling it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And I'm not sure where to begin.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I guess I'll just start by asking you, John Paul Bullock,
just start talking about Taylor Swift in a new record,
you know, let me cue you sure.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Number One, I had a stress dream about doing this
podcast last night, like a legit I was, I really like,
felt bad and woke up upset. And number two, the
reason why her music isn't coming across in the grocery
store anymore is because there ain't no hits. And look,
(04:35):
Taylor Swift is incredible in so many ways and This
is not a personal attack on her. I am going
to say some negative things about the music on this record,
but one thing is for sure is that nobody is
doing this kind of parasocial conversation with her fan base
(04:56):
as well as this person. She has essentially created this
new way of being a fan and it is incredible.
I mean, and this album really does suffer from the
fact that it's just her talk singing a bunch of
stuff from her life to her core fans, and there's
(05:19):
not much in the way of like hook driven pop songwriting.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It's just a lot of.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Vaguely complaining songs with cheap literary references and outdated slang.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It sounds kind of cheap and tacky.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
And the character that she plays in her public life
and on stage and characters I guess, like, you know,
she kind of addresses that here with referencing all of
these other famous women and the idea of like father
figures and all these kind of roles that people play
in other people's lives. I don't know if it's her
(06:00):
well in terms of like having pop hits on the
radio or that play, you know, the music version. I
don't think we're going to hear a music version of
the Fate of Ophelia at the grocery store in ten
years from now. But at the same time, I do
think that this does the thing that she's set out
to do, which is to express to her fans in
(06:20):
a very basic way, a narrative, and that narrative is
a movement from the last collection of songs to this
collection of songs. What's sort of, in a very general
way happening with her and her you know, fiance, and
how she's settling past scores.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
There's a lot of that too. There's a lot of like,
there's a little bit of revenge some of this which
I found very But.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I'm happy to go track by track with you. I
feel like I'm just rambling at this point now. But
this person contains multitudes. I find her endlessly fascinating. This
is not a very good.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Album she's fasting to talk about, and I feel whether
this is just my own stress stream, internal monologue manifesting,
or it's real, you know. I suspect that the target
listenership of this podcast maybe contains more than a few
people who are going to see the fact that we're
talking about Taylor Swift and roll their eyes and say,
am I not safe anywhere from this Taylor Swift thing?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But I think the answer is you're not. And that's
kind of the point.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And Taylor Swift is like, you know, she's like Jupiter
or the Sun in the solar system of the music industry,
and she bends gravity all around her, and you know,
we all know about her, and people are sick of
hearing about her because of the immensity of her reach.
And I think you really put your finger on it
in terms of it being sort of this like innovative
(07:43):
way to weaponize that parasocial relationship. And you know, Taylor
Swift is like anyone who ascends to that level of
pop culture ubiquity, an avatar of the zeitgeist, and the zeitgeist.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Right now sucks fucking ass. And so of.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Course Taylor Swift is going to for guys like you
and me and folks who listen to this podcast probably,
I'm guessing, I'm assuming for all our Swifty fans out there.
Thank you for listening to our interview with Dave Alvin.
I hope you got a lot out of it. But
that's not what we got into liking music for. Even
though we all, like I had a parasocial relationship with
Radiohead for fifteen solid years from the age of thirteen
(08:18):
through twenty eight. And you know, I saw Jeff Tweety
play in Toronto the other night, and that's like, there's
obviously an aspect to any relationship any of us has
with any artist that we like, because we live in
a time where the artists and the songwriter and like
the you know, it's the sort of oti thing. We
all have a bit of that, and to look at
it so nakedly with the Taylor Swift thing, I think
is instructive for the way that we all interact with art,
(08:40):
and also the ways in which sometimes you can put
out an album that maybe is kind of a turkey
but serves different needs. And the fact that Taylor Swift
is so huge, but I don't think she even needs
radio anymore, you know. And she's an artist that came
up in the traditional way. She came out of Nashville,
she came out of the country world, she crossed over CDs,
concert tickets, and now in this world of concert tickets
(09:03):
and humongous, you know, billion dollar grossing tours, it seems
like mostly this is all designed now to point towards
whenever the next time Taylor Swift does a tour. Is
also very interesting that, unlike how I came up, she
just did the highest profile tour of my honestly that
I've been aware of in my lifetime, that eras tour,
(09:24):
She did it, finished it, and then she put out
this record almost as like capitalizing on the Typically you
put it a record and then you go on tour.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Where I come from is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Anyway, she's sort of like, look at her either reinventing
how to be that kind of a superstar or being
surfing the wave of reinvention that's happening in the industry anyway,
And I think, you know, I haven't talked about the
music at all yet, and honestly, I kind of liked it.
I don't think I'm going to put it back on.
I think it's not really for thirty eight year olds,
(09:55):
like in terms of emotional complexity and what the songs
are about. But I really didn't like those National Guy records.
I recently had an argument was one of my nieces
about this, but I was like, they just like, it's
not good pop music, it's not good indie music. It
doesn't interest me. This at least sounds like the Taylor
Swift that I always dug, and you know, the she
(10:15):
has a way of singing, in a way of vocalizing
and writing lyrics that when it works for me, I
really think no one else is doing it like that.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
It's kind of like another controversial pop culture Titan Drake.
I'm like, I don't know, No, no one sounds like
that when they sing.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
No one puts their melodies in that order except this person.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
It's very identifiable, and I respect that as a musician.
And there's a few times on this record where I
really was bop in my head, you know, there's that
what's it called ruin? The Friendship was the one that
really stuck out to me, which was kind of an
old fashioned, like Nashville both Nashville sounding and also Nashville
referencing story song that like when on a journey, and
(10:54):
I instantly understood the emotion I was supposed to feel,
the story I was being told, the journey I was
going on with the singer, And I think that's Taylor
Swift should be able to do that at this point,
especially with access to like the supercomputer of songwriting genius
that you know that she has access to that's Max
Martin in that whole world. But still to hear it,
(11:14):
I was reminded that, like, oh yeah, absent all the context,
absent all the parasociality, which I am fortunate enough to
really not know anything about. I know that she is
engaged to Travis Kelce, and I know that she has
some kind of social conflict with Charlie XCX, and that's
(11:35):
I'm good with that, And just to listen to it
as music worked really well, except when the lyrics were
like if you don't know what's going on with the
Charlie XCX thing, the song is insane. You know, if
you put this in a time capsule for a thousand
years and it comes out without context, I would love
to know what people would make of it. So that's
my own sort of like spaghetti rant about the Tailor's.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Funny that you were going to get to ruin ruin.
The friendship I think was one of the creepiers, just
like I mean, it's definitely like the subject of that song.
If it is a true story, She's not playing a
character in this song. If it is like we were
at the lake and I didn't kiss you, and I
wish i'd kiss you. It's a weird thing for like
(12:19):
a thirty five year old woman who is engaged to
someone else to be expressing to like one person and
then sharing that sort of without their permission to hundreds
of millions of people. Just in basic research and listening
to each of these tracks, I was like, oh that,
(12:40):
like if you go on genius or one of those websites,
lyrics websites, it immediately says the man's name that this
is supposedly about, and it's not a famous person, like
it's just some dude, you know, Like yeah, well, I
mean he's probably famous because of his association with this
person in with Taylor Swift, But I don't know. I mean,
(13:02):
I I hear you. I understand how it can be enjoyable.
I also understand how it can be kind of baffling.
And with the Charlie XCX thing, we'll get there. But
do you want to just like go track by track
and talk about it or that was the Is that
too much?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I don't think we need to go track It's like
pretty long, and you know, there was a couple of
standouts for me what really caught your attention, what were
you excited to talk about it?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Well, I think the first two songs, Fate of Aphelia
and Elizabeth Taylor, are like an interesting pairing of things
about Taylor Swift's identity as I creative identity as I
know it, because obviously don't know as a person.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
But like you know, Fateophilia had I remember.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Taylor Swift from that love story song that's Romeo and
Juliet song. And so the next the lead single on
this thing, is like another Shakespeare reference, high school, middle
school reference to it. And I mean, I just I
cannot help but think like, if you, as a songwriter,
wrote a song that's like I feel just like Hamlet,
(14:08):
you would people would be like, what are you doing?
You know, like it is you can't. No, You're not
allowed to do that, It's against the rules. But also
I do think that in the time of No Kings
and we're trying to reevaluate whatever the American dream is,
this song firmly places her character or whoever she plays publicly,
(14:31):
as like a noble woman. And I also think it's
like a misunderstanding of what happened to Ophelia, and like
and and mental health and her agency versus this woman
from hundreds of years ago who was in a much
different situation. And I just also like the all the slight,
like to keep it one hundreds and bad.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
You know, like that stuff really greats for me. I
find that really there's that piano. I can't remember where
it falls and the sequencing or even the name. I
listened to this on the subway, so I wasn't looking
at stutt track titles, but you.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Know, there's like a classic album moment.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I really recognize something that I always love on an
album that it's very similars, just like there was like
a fast song and then the fast song ended and
you heard like a slow, beautiful sounding piano come in,
and you just your body knows, okay, it's time to
slow down a bit. It was a lovely, not revolutionary,
but lovely piano based melody. But the whole first verse
was like about like memes and posting and hot takes
(15:27):
much like these, what's that line?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I mean, it is the cold take.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I think we should we should try to pull it
for for this series where I think it's like I
wrote it down, It's basically like every single hot take
is cold as Ice.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yes, that's it, Like that's just I mean, I mean,
I guess that's just a matter of taste.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
But that's tough.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I don't that kind of like I hate hearing it's
like how the cell phones and movies sucks the Internet
in music, it's not impossible to write interestingly about. And
I'm sure there's people out there doing like a really
cool job of incorporate that, but I just find it
to be it just instantly makes me shut my ears
and shut my heart, and especially in like a beautiful
ballad your Taylor swift right, like a beautiful unrequited love song,
(16:10):
you know, like it's not rocket science.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I don't want to hear about the internet. But that's
my opinion. I mean, I think the.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Same thing that Elizabeth Taylor, like the next song, it
has that kind of like I don't know, there's a
lot of like comparison is the thief of joy and
it invites derision and like, don't compare yourself. You're an icon, Taylor,
like you're not. Don't compare yourself to another icon from
a different era that's obviously cooler than you and obviously
(16:36):
like it just.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Comes off bad.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
And this whole idea like the Hollywood Hates Me that
she leans into really that in Fatoophilia.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I like the omnichord in this.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
I think that the chorus is good, like the big
bombastic chorus.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It's sort of the.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Only song on this album that has like kind of
one of those throwback courses to the like nineteen eighty nine,
like the big athemic moments in her past catalog.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
But like I just I.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Feel like there's a lot of complaining moments in here,
and then there's a lot of songs like Opalite and
that are like I dated a bunch of jerks and
now I've got Travis or whatever, and yeah, this is
and it's just weird. But I do think that, like
she does a number of other things that I find
like that Father Figure song that interpolates the George Michael
(17:25):
like Shaboozi style, like let's just take a great old
song and do like kind of a shittier version of it.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Is Like I hate that so much, Like don't do that.
You don't have to do that.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You're surrounded by like the world's greatest technicians who can
help you bring your vision to reality. Don't just take
a d and she's done another riff on that before.
I was reading about that, like that drived me insane,
Like I thought, the the the Charlie XCX stuff, Oh.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Come on, like do you listen you listen to that song? Yeah?
So I don't know. I don't care about their personal lives.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I gotta say as like a fuck you dis track
the notion, like just emotionally of saying like, that's adorable,
you're in love with me? I just I've never heard
it put that way in a song before, and in
terms of like an angle that works for it. It
caught my attention and I and again I understood it.
You know, it's it's obviously direct and clear. Is not
a high bar for a Taylor Swift record to clear,
(18:20):
but it worked on me.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I mean, it is the Mariah Carey why you're so
obsessed with me? Yeah? True, I guess, and I do think.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It is also the like I don't know if this
is how real this is or this is being just
being too like it feels a little homophobic, Like it
does feel a little like she's like, you love me
more than any man ever has.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And obviously Charlie's.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Camp or whatever is more openly queer and that's the
world that she's in, and I don't know, I mean,
it's it just seems kind of mean and petty and look.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Too to Bratt. I really liked Bratt a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I think it's a great record, and Charlie for the
first time, I think, really does a bunch of this
Taylor parasocial stuff where she kind of like almost every
track is about a different woman in her life, and
you know, it's I think Charlie's song is one of
like insecurity, and you know that.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I think Charlie toured opening for Taylor Swift.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
They're obviously in the same adjacent social circles in some cases.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I don't know if that's the case now, but you
know Jeff Bezos' wedding attendees, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Totally like people who are eating human flesh and on
Epstein's Islands or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Owl worshiping bohemian grove. Actually, I don't know if they
let women into behaving fair So that's a bad there
must be there at this point. Taylor Swift must have
bought an island and found it kind of like all
woman bohemian grove, and we salute her for it. Yeah,
you're at MLD. We support Bohemian grove too.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
But actually a romantic makes Charlie's stuff look like a
master work and way more sensitive and way more sophisticated.
And then the rest of this there's that song about
I assume it's about Travis Kelce's dick.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Like it seems to you're really supposed to think it's
about Travis Kelcey's dad.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And it's like the song is literally called wood and
it's like it has it also has that like I
mean again in the age of It's like it's got
the like Jackson five opening to it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, you're like, oh, what what is this?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Like that's been really fun for the session players to like.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
La I associate this with like a child performer, which
is like the weirdest, Like it doesn't mean it's.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Not a good moment.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And then that the then also I do think there's
a lot of dog whistle like that next song that's
like the canceled song, Like I do think like cancelation
is fake and that this whole idea of taking a
stance against cancelation is.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Like just not real low hanging fruit.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, and just uh that to me, I was just like,
what is this song actually, and the funniest thing is
like the kind of low key feminism of Honey and
the next song, I was like, oh, I like this
is cool, Like I like that she's being like, you're
the only person that's allowed to have this kind of
intimacy with me. But the last song and the like
(21:19):
the thematic tie in rap around or whatever, the Sabrina
Carpenter featuring Life of a Showgirl, it really does seem
like those two women just like watch the Giacopola movie
from last year and they're like, we should make a
song about.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
This, and then just like did it. I don't know
if that's the case of it, but like, having gone.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Through this, I was just like, oh man, I feel
genuine sorrow for this person.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And then also like.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I'm not sure if that's a direct result of like
these creative decisions that she's made, and if this person
is not this person at all, and she's like a
diabolical genius, which I'm sure she kind.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Of is right, you don't get this far without being
a babolical genius. And I say that as a compliment
to Taylor Swift. You know, play you gotta the player's
gonna play. Hate the game and other such bromides, some
of which come from our songs.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
But where's the hit?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, I didn't hear it, but I think and this
is maybe, you know, by way of transitioning out of
the Taylor Swift portion of this conversation, what a hit
on a Taylor Swift record means in twenty twenty five
seems to be something so different than what it meant
in twenty ten. Last time, I was really like plugged
(22:32):
into that world that I almost feel like, well, I
enjoyed listening to the record and talking to you about it.
Engaging with like top forty pop music for teenagers is
just like outside of my ability to really wrap my
head around anymore. Maybe some of these songs are perfectly
set up for TikTok or for wherever people you know
in the Taylor Swift target demo are meeting their music now,
(22:54):
And I don't know that that is necessarily songs that
are on the radio anymore, especially given the fact that
I'm sure Taylor Swift can email radio any piece of
music and they'll play it.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Well, is this music for teenagers?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I mean, Elizabeth Taylor, like, is that a song that
a fourteen year old's gonna be like, yes, I remember
this actress from fifty years ago.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, I think it's that like you go on Instagram
or on TikTok and you see all of this culture
from the past that was antiquated can now be sort
of like you can pick these little esthetic pieces out
of it and say, Elizabeth Taylor that now is like
an archetype. And I don't there may literally be an
Elizabeth Taylor viral video that we don't know about, and
if there's not there easily could be. And I think
(23:35):
that Taylor Swift has often been plugged into that notion
of like this album is kind of like scrolling vertically
endlessly through like, oh here's an old timey reference. Oh
here's like a modern reference. Oh here's a hot take.
Oh here's a controversial diss. Oh here's like a little
bit of warm, fuzzy love. I guess you could say
any album provides that experience, but it does really seem
(23:56):
to like they hit my brain in the same place now.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
But that might just be because middle aged. Well.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I also, I just don't think there's like the kind
of hooks that like I think of post Malone as
being like the first guy I recognized where it's like, oh,
they're putting the chorus as the first fifteen seconds of
every single one of these songs because that is how
they are monetizing these things online.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
But these songs don't seem to have that to me.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
No, there's a lot of slow starts, and there's not
a lot of like sharp hooks that I feel like
could be edited into those moments you're talking about where
you're like poll quotes or whatever.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, and like even just like a lyrical hook that
is universal.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
You know, I was a totally different band.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
But I've been really shocked, or not shocked maybe, but
like fascinated recently by how that Radiohead song let Down,
which is like an okay computer deep cut that they
don't play live, has become like their biggest song because
it became a TikTok thing and you can hear in
that song there even though the lyrics are about like
a crushed bug on the ground and like Tommy York's
you know, sort of nineties dystopian rantings that no of
(25:00):
like let Down, and the way the music is underneath
it and it's sent you know, that's that's something that
I think anyone can sort of intuitively understand and it's
plainly universal in a certain way that a lot of
the tailor stuff is so specific to her. It's like
this is about it's by Taylor Swift, It's about Taylor Swift,
and it's four swift Ease. But maybe again, maybe there's
(25:20):
just it's such a big ecosystem now that she can
preach to that choir and be the biggest artist in
the world without having to like activate new fans.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Well, it's interesting too because the I looked on Spotify
last night and I could see that Life of Fate
of Ophelia excuse me, had two hundred and fifty million streams,
and then every other track was substantially less like they were.
It was like it dropped off by at least one
hundred million.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I think that like Elizabeth Taylor had like one to
fifty or something like that, which edic I mean honestly though,
it's like that's not a good way of measuring anyone's
success for anything, but that that is the experience. It
was sort of a graph of the experience I had
listening to this record, which is like halfway through Fate
of Ophelia, I was kind of like, I have to
(26:09):
make a podcast about this and say what you means
things that I don't want to do, and I agreed
to do this. And look, I like this idea of
cold takes, and I like this idea of talking about
pop music in this way, and I think we'll get
more sophisticated threats and look in the world where all
press is good press. I hope that our little half
(26:31):
hour here has will help Taylor Swift in some way.
But of the few thousand people who are listening to this,
we love you, Thank you for listening to this. And
from a production standpoint, what's your biggest takeaway from it?
Did it feel like entirely in the box, like a
thing made in logic, and it didn't seem like this
(26:51):
like a live instrument album, But I'm sure there is.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
The acoustic guitars I really noticed sounded great. And again
I think if you're Taylor Swift and you have the
kind of budget and expertise to a record and the
acoustic guitars don't sound great, that's maybe a bigger problem.
But I noticed they sounded great, and I liked how
the drums sounded, although that kind of like dead drum sound.
Could like I have a sample pack I bought from
an Instagram advertisement that basically is that sound. I just
(27:17):
assume with records like that, And I've even made like
indie records like this, where you spend most of your
money and most of your time like getting the drums
sounding amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
And like performed amazing.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
You get them all perfect, and then you go through
meticulous or you replace all of them with samples anyway,
so I imagine it's probably something like that where a great
drummer did a week of great drumming in the nicest
studio in Nashville or LA, or like on the Taylor
Swift private Bohemian Grove, two Island, and then like, none
of the actual sound from that performance is anywhere near
(27:50):
the record. But that's just speculation. I don't have any
inside info, but I I thought it sounded good. It
sounded like it made sense to me. It's an incoherent lyrically,
it had a lot of like distracting contemporary references, but
unlike some of the more recent tailor records I found,
there was less like contemporary sonic trend. It sounded a
little more time timeless, or like not rooted in an
(28:14):
incredibly specific moment versus something like Trouble, which has that
like dubstep kind of chorus that just every single song
for three years had and then no one ever cared
about ever again until it comes back next year. And
this one didn't have that, which works for me. I
think I like her in that like classic ish. Even
when she is aping the Jackson five, it's like, well,
(28:34):
at least this sounds like Yeah, it's like the sum
total of like recorded popular music from the seventies through
aughts and like shined to a beautiful polish.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Can we talk about the omnichord being used on those
first two songs and the like as the kind of
bridge as like it does have this childlike princess magic
coal feeling to it that I love, I love that
I wish. This is a pro omnichord podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
The proto Tokyo Police Club band that we formed in
high school, which actually formed in grade eight by me
and my friend Will Curry. The only instruments we had
access to were an old cassio tone which is next
to me right now and is on a bunch of
Tokyo Police Club songs because I stole it from Will,
and an omnichord. Yes, and so before I knew that omnichord,
you know, before Damon Alburn used the omnichord.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Setting one or whatever it is. That's right, Suburbia was
pioneering the use of it.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
And I only wish that we'd recorded it and so
people had proof of our genius.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I I'm sure it was great. There's still time. There's
still time.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Grim Yeah, I should see if that thing's still kicking around.
I could steal that too. Anyway. So that's the life
of a show girl. That was fascinating to do.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I'm also Sabrina Carpenter killed it on SNL this weekend,
and I'm glad that she's being elevated by Taylor at
the end of this record, because I think that she's
really cool pop star and both those two like they
make an interesting pairing.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, and an interesting Taylor Swift is an establishment figure. Now,
she's been doing this for twenty plus years, so crazy
to think that now, Okay, there's a whole new class
coming up, not just Underneather, but like twenty years underneath
or and Sabrina Carpenter seems to me to be very
representative of that. Okay, should we talk about Halloween music
for like a few minutes and then sign off. This
(30:26):
is a long MLD news, but it's also an important
MLD news.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
The first of a new series, the.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
First of a new series called the Blue Jays Kick Ass.
It's Halloween season. Yeah, the ghouls and the ghosts are out.
And we were talking off the mic about putting together
a John Paul Bullock for anyone that doesn't know and
that maybe some of you is a great maker of playlists.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
As long as I've known you have been putting music together.
I'm sure as longer than I've known you, you've been
doing that. And you were talking about maybe creating some
kind of like Halloween music playlist, which I think is
interesting because of all the holidays with which music is associated,
Halloween music is the funniest and therefore, in a lot
of ways, like the least to be considered seriously. And
(31:14):
yet you never don't consider music seriously, as we just
heard from your analysis of that Taylor record. So I
want to hear your thoughts about what you're planning for
this spooky playlist.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
I think I want to do at least twenty spooky
songs released or reissued during this year since last Halloween.
So from November one, twenty twenty four to the night
All Hallows Eve of twenty twenty five, we get a
bunch of stuff. You know, It's funny as I started
(31:45):
to compile it, it is a lot of instrumental surf
guitar stuff because that's what I've been into. And not
only that, but surf people embrace spooky season with both arms.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
And it is just that.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I think it's just that that it naturally reverb is
naturally spooky sounding.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
The sea is the most ancient and evil place there is.
To quote a very important figure in my life. I
hate the sea and everything in it.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You know, even the beginning of Wipeout by friend of
the show Barbary melberry Hill is like, thank you, Barbary
Hill is like a maniacal cackle that sounds like that
is used on The Simpsons as like a frightening sound
effect when Sycho Bomb dedicates that song to bart And
so you're right, and it is this. It's like a
love crafty and horror that goes.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
It's the scariest.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
It's the the unknowable depths, darkness and and monsters beneath
you know, so there there are there's a lot of
instrumental serve guitar on there so far. Yeah, if you
have suggestions and you hear this tomorrow when we were
gonna put this out, please also put those in the comments.
(33:05):
I'll try to deploy it, I guess on Thursday or
Friday then, so that we get it. You got a
full week of spooky music before you go out and
get your candy with your pillowcase. I loved doing this,
and I would love to do more of these, like
Rick Biato style. Look at what's happening in popular culture
right now. It's interesting to me that this Taylor record,
(33:29):
I was like, I was kind of hoping that there
would be a something.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Kind of spooky or sad on here. I don't know why.
And Life of a show Girl is kind of dark,
like there's a real.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Like the the album ends on a note that's like
basically like they leave girls like us to die, you know,
and we're going to try to reclaim it. But there's
kind of and it starts with Life of Maybe this
is secretly kind of a horror album. The Fate of Aphelia.
I do think of Aphelia as a uh, you know,
(34:01):
obviously a tragic figure.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
So trench into analysis as you can always expect your
mess her major label debut.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
It's a horror This is Taylor's this horror album as
what I'm saying. Actually, I think the last one might
kind of be a horror album a little bit. There's
there's horrific moments in it.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Right, What was the last one? The one of the two?
Bryce Destner? No, she made a record since then, didn't she? Wait?
Am I completely wrong? Oh? I don't know. That just
feels like it was so long ago. Folklore and ever Evermore.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Wasn't there like another like you know, yes, there was
computer record, well like those are like you know, tape records. Yeah,
and then they have guitars and the wind on them.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
So she's had Taylor Swift, Fearless, Speak Now Red nineteen
eighty nine, reputation, Lover Folklore ever More.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Midnights, Midnights that was it, and no.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
No, and then the tortured Poets Department, Oh my god,
wow for sure. Gro So, Yeah, she just keeps going.
Turner Poet's Apartment might also be hard. Maybe there is
the thread of horror that's running through all of Taylor
Swift's work, and we should investigate that we should do
another Taylor Swift horror podcast.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I'm ready. Actually, I kind of never want to talk
about Taylor Swift again.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I don't really see it being a value add for
us going forward. I'm gonna get a lot of love mail.
I thought that was so interesting. I was glad to hear.
You know, normally I listened to Soul Asylum, but I
was so thrilled to finally hear two men take Taylor
Swift seriously. Nevertheless, it's fun to do and listen if
you love music and have worked in and around music
(35:38):
like we both do and have the biggest artists are
inevitably important to you. And the fact that I don't
listen to Taylor Swift's records and like I you know,
I really like nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
I went down that whole road.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I was all about it at that moment when everyone,
you know, all the indie bands are getting too pop,
and you know, the records have lots of great stuff
on them, but I don't know, whatever, It's not for me,
and I don't feel any obligation to go be there
out of some like misplaced sense of duty to the
pop culture. I'm not trying to be Taylor Swift, and
so I'm happy to leave it for her to enjoy.
(36:11):
And I will say, by way of bookending this conversation
with some more sports talk, it does sound a bit like,
you know, being on top of the world in an
unbeatable Titan and then whining and complaining like.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You're the underdog.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
She may be picked up a few pointers from her
new buddies Travis and Patrick Monds.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
It is. It is complaining.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I'm not sure I like as a cultural movement, complaining
is something I can get behind.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Well, it's fucking prevalent, so to it. I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Everybody is whining, both politically, both sides wine wine wine.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Am I whining about whining right now?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I think it's inevitable. I'm whining about whining about whining.
This is getting very meta and it's been forty minutes.
It's our best episode ever, is what I mean to say.
And I'm just flying high with them, Jay's that's that's
the important thing.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Well, I didn't mean to sound callous earlier, and I
do wish you good luck. I know that it will
be hard for you when you lose, but it will
be a good learning experience.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I think, Graham.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
If there's one thing people in Toronto sports do not
have a lot of experience with, it's brutal, disappointing losses
in the postseason. So that will be a learning experience. Indeed,
John pa Book, thank you for the time you spent
listening to and thinking about Taylor Swift The Life of
a show Girl. Thank you for your love of playlisting
and the horror playlist you're about to make. And thank
you for being a friend and co host.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Oh that makes me feel great. Thank you, Graham. I
appreciate that this was truly It was truly difficult, and
I felt really bad about it. I felt bad the
whole time. I felt bad. As I was listening to it,
I was like, do I have to just say mean
things about this woman's I don't know? And look, I
love doing this view and I want to do more
of it, So kind to get better at not feeling
(37:57):
bad about that. No one cares except for you and
me and the two three thousand people who are listening
to this.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
And look for what it's worth to our one fan
who's a Dave Alvin head slash swifty. If you take
music seriously and treat it with respect, sometimes that means
you got to talk a little shit. And so we
only do it because we love Taylor and support her
and we're angling for an invitation on her jet. This
is true anytime, Taylor. I'm a great pass and German,
nice guy bunny. I got stories. I can fit in
(38:22):
with a lot of kind of crowds.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I can work the barbecue at that island like nobody's business.
Thank you Graham for doing this with me. This is
really fun.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, this is what it's all about. This is why
we started this podcast, just to get you this moment.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Almost one year. Thank you all for listening to this.
There's so much more we've got coming, so many good episodes. Yeah,
thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, anniversary special come in next week. But for now,
thank you for listening to Major Label Debut and MLD News.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
The podcast is produced.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
By my second mic and dear friend and colleague, John
Paul Bullock.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Tip of the hat, Thank you Graham, Thank you Graham.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Also produced by Josh Hook, who is the synthesis between
the Toronto Blue Jays and the Los Angeles Dodgers as
a transplanted Torontonian in Los Angeles, so he will be
the tiebreaker and he'll be happy no matter what happens.
Art the music is by the wonderful Greg Allsop. Greg
You're the King. Please continue to like, subscribe, follow, reach out,
(39:21):
comment press buttons. Help the algorithm make us as famous
as Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
The tailor Swift of podcasting.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
That's what they're calling major label debut, and you've been
listening to it. We will return with more tails and
spooky creaky doors sounds from the intersection of art and commerce.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Go Blue Jays, Go Dodgers, Fuck Josh, edit that out.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.