June 11, 2025 • 47 mins
Today I delve into the book Unshrunk by Laura Delano. This is not the easiest topic to face because we all have people in our lives who have gone down the "treatment" and "brain imbalance" mythology roads. I gobbled this book down and highly recommend it to anyone. 66 million people in our country are on mind-and-personality-altering pharmaceuticals. I play some clips of Laura speaking with Tucker Carlson so we have some of her experience in her own words, and I also quote some FACTS found in her books about how little studies are actually conducted before these drugs get prescribed for us.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
The California Mama Bears have been forced out of hibernation.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Fierce guardians of our future. Mama Bear's fight for parents rights,
defense of the family, and God given freedoms everywhere. You're
listening to Mama Bears Radio with your host, The New Normal,
Kristen Hurley.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Welcome back to Mama Bear's Radio, our number two of
safe and effective radio, gold standard broadcasting. Thank you very much. Well,
I started our number one like hope you had a
riotously good weekend. I don't know if that's still all
going on, but coming soon to a summer of love
(01:00):
near you. Apparently nothing better to do than to burn
our cities down again. In the meantime, though, I want
to talk a little bit this hour, as mentioned about
Unshrunk Story of psychiatric treatment resistance, a book I just read.
Laura Dellano, the author has been in the media and
in the news. After this book came out, she herself
(01:23):
went on a journey of I think it was about
a decade and a half of being diagnosed and being
a psychiatry patient. She took about nineteen different medications over
the course of her years. She was hospitalized a number
of times, had an identity as an mentally ill person,
(01:44):
and she shook that off. She had a moment in
time where she thought, maybe it's not me, maybe it's
the pills. And her journey ever since has been super compelling.
She presents just such a compelling it's her story. As
she says, she's not talking smack necessarily, but she's just
(02:06):
providing information. The book is a wealth of data and
information about this really important subject. I want to start
off this hour with a quote. This is actually not
from her book. This is from Anatomy of an Epidemic,
a book that she saw, I think about fifteen years ago.
(02:27):
She said that really sparked her questioning what the direction
her life was. In Magic Bullets, psychiatric drugs, and the
Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America by Robert Whitaker,
author of a book called Mad in America, and there's
actually a website by that name as well. He starts
off one of those chapters quoting Thomas Hawksley quote the
(02:49):
great tragedy of science, the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis
by an ugly fact. Whoops science, right? We think that,
like we live and die by the science, as every
single one of us experienced in the last four or
five years getting up there. Trust the science, trust the science,
(03:13):
and beneath that facade of like, oh, the important people
that we know the science is just a load of
horse petuity and there's no data to back it up,
and it's gaslighting and coercion and dollar science, the almighty
dollar behind what we're told is good for us. And
(03:36):
so Laura's journey is super so compelling. I actually really
hesitated bringing this into Mama Bear's radio. Number of people
around me are decades into psychiatric medications and treatment. It's
(03:58):
a tough it's a tough one to like vocalize because
there's a lot of motion wrapped up into it. Obviously,
it's hard to it's hard to question and wonder if
you are making I don't want to say making the
(04:19):
wrong decisions, but if something you're doing isn't right. That's
really tough to self analyze and to set aside one's
ego or set aside ones you know your entire reality
and ask the tough questions about yourself in the direction
of your life and the choices you're making. Really hard
(04:43):
for us to admit we're wrong on like such a
superficial level, like, ah, I picked the wrong donut this
morning to eat that one gave me indigestion. Maybe I
should have chosen the pink donut, or or like not,
you know, not to be goofy, but on like the
really easy ones for us humans, it's really hard to
(05:05):
admit that you're wrong, even though we had the best
intentions and I didn't know, and there's all these excuses, right,
It's like you still get the ticket even though you
tell the HP guy like I didn't know it was
a twenty five mile an hour zone, ignorance of the law.
You know, it doesn't get you anywhere, whatever my silly metaphors.
But in all seriousness, we have to I don't know.
(05:32):
You know, if you're interested in a journey in your
time on this planet for optimizing and for doing it
well and having a life experience, right, if you're able
to just set aside the busyness of the day to
day and all the all of the pressure and all
of the variables and all the crap you have to
deal with even the best of circumstances. Is like God
(05:56):
gives everyone your challenges, and you could be at the
top of your little game. You could you know, the
billionaires a so we've seen, are all a little kookie
make crazy choices for themselves all the way down to
you know, just the poorest of the poor and the
people that just have the hardest lift, heaviest lift in life.
(06:19):
You are not exempt from a certain amount of free
will and the way that you conduct yourself and the
way that you can achieve things, whether tangible or intangible,
for yourself as a soul. I think all I'm just
(06:41):
saying is like we're all given the opportunity to value
our time here alive on earth, and make the best
choices and conduct ourselves in a certain way and grow
and change. It's like, what does God want for you
or from you? Is a path of under standing in
growth and adhering to just the progress of the planet
(07:10):
in general, I think, which is achieved by asking questions
and optimizing. Anyway, So back to this story on trunk,
back to I suppose my original question here was like
I did somewhat hesitate bringing this up. I think it's
really great for everyone. I encourage everyone to go check
this book out, whether you know people or not on
(07:32):
these medications, and I bet you do, because, as Laura says,
and if you can look you can look it up
on the CDC website. And this is as of a
few years ago. This is as of twenty twenty to
sixty million adults in our country are on some sort
of psychiatric medicine. Whether that's excuse me, medicine. I generally
(07:53):
don't say that pill medication. Drug. It's drug. It alters
your It alters your entire self, not just your brain chemistry.
It's a farce. Sixty million adults on some sort of
SSRI or mood stabilizer or anti anxiety or you name them.
(08:14):
Six million children. And this is as of a few
years ago. The New York Times article that I mentioned that,
which is where I first this caught my attention, says,
the portion of American adults taking them, meaning these pharmaceuticals,
approached twenty five percent of American adults during the pandemic,
(08:42):
more than triple what it was in the early nineteen nineties. Well,
that's a hell of a marketing scheme. Good job, guys,
brought to you by Pfizer. I mean, I jokingly say that,
but it's a hell of a growth path. And the
central central theme behind the question that Laura is asking
(09:03):
The question that everyone should be saying asking of themselves
is like, are we getting any better with this path?
But this approach to mental illness, everybody, like I just said,
everyone on God's Green and brown Earth has their set
(09:26):
of challenges. No one is exempt from emotions and kind
of nutsy times in your life where you question what
the heck is going on and what is wrong with me?
All the way from you know, sort of very superficial
experiences with that to times and periods in your life
(09:47):
where you like, are like, I feel like I'm in
the twilight zone. That's been my experience. Existential crises, moments
as you grow and change, and sometimes you go through
your day and you're like, I'm not even sure what
reality this is. Everybody's got that to a certain extent
or more. And to have chosen an approach to treating
(10:13):
this quote unquote from the scientists and industry brought to
you by Pfizer, and to have that kind of trajectory,
what did we just say with the New York Times,
if they're to be believed, triple what twenty five percent
of American adults taking these drugs triple what it was
in the early nineteen nineties. You know, anything on a
(10:37):
trajectory where the line is going up on your graph,
Does that not, at its very base level mean that
this approach does not work? Suicide rates through the roof
young and old alike. Oh wait a minute. Is psychiatric
(11:01):
treatment helping us as a society and a population? If
it were, well, why do we have manifold more people
on these drugs and with mental illness problems walking the
streets of Santa Cruz or coming to a neighborhood near you,
(11:23):
People that clearly are out of their minds, kids being
medicated at increasingly younger ages and schools. Are we helping
ourselves out? Any How can anyone who actually posits that
question and seeks to find actual answers, How can anyone
(11:46):
be like, oh, yeah, we're doing a great job of
caring for our emotionally disturbed people or our you know,
anxiety ridden society. Oh yeah, top of our game. Oh yeah,
it's working on a quivocally you can't say that. So
these are the things that Laura talks about. I am
going to play a couple of clips. Let me take
(12:07):
my break, we will come back. I will play a
couple of clips from her and Tucker kind of as
an introduction. I want to go into her book just
a little bit. And again, I'm only going to scratch
the surface of this here in my humble little Mama
Bear's Hour. Maybe we'll revisit at some point and be
fun to get her on as a guest. But it
(12:28):
bears questioning and again, in the spirit of Mama Bear's
Radio and my whole approach to what I want to
do to further our country and to shepherd our next
generation and all of the things I talk about, we
have to have these conversations. We are, as we've talked about,
(12:52):
sicker and sicker. Our kids are sicker and sicker. They're
more mentally ill. Everyone's in a total crisis and it
doesn't do anyone any good to look the other way.
All right, here we go, everybody, Mama Bear's Radio. I'm
Kristin Hurley. I will take my break and be back
with some clips from Laura Delano.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Mama Bear's Radio.
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We'll be right back.
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Times home.
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You're afraid to bay the fake.
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So you find yourself somebody who can do the job
for free when you need the bed alone, because.
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Your man is that it sounds that's.
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The time you get me running and you know'd.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Welcome back to Mama Bear's Radio. Kristin Hurley. Here we
are talking about Unshrunk. This is a book I read recently,
a story of psychiatric treatment resistance by Laura Delano. I
want to play a couple of clips of Laura. She
was on talker Carlson from her own mouth, right out
(14:36):
of the New York Times article about her. She's born
in nineteen eighty three, five years before prozac entered the market,
and Miss Delano was part of the first large wave
of Americans to be prescribed medications in their teens. In
the story, you'll you'll find she was thirteen and they
said you're bipolar. She'd had a couple of trip out experiences.
(14:59):
She was at hop top student in her high pressure
cooker academic environment in Connecticut, top of her squash team
and whatnot, super athletic, and she started acting out. Who
doesn't at thirteen thirteen? I always say this to parents,
thirteen is like the worst year ever. Eighth Grade's awful.
(15:22):
Everybody evens out a little bit when they hit high school.
But anyways, and she says in her book, right this
is part of her journey she embraced this over the years.
She took that label that was given to her at thirteen,
and it became part of her identity for years, for
(15:42):
decade and a half, and that single prescription she was
given turned into expanded into a cocktail. Like we said,
about nineteen different drugs over the years. So let me
play this. This is her and Tucker. She's talking about
the spellbinding effect of these medications. This is Laura Delano.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
I felt dead, I felt disconnected, I felt I felt
I felt like I was trapped in this kind of
sludgy morass of that was separating me from from the
world around me. I just and I really truly believed
that that was me and my own faulty biology. And
(16:24):
so it's so insidious, like I think it's it's A
psychiatrist named Peter Braggan calls it medication spellbinding, which I
think is a really compelling phrase, because the very parts
of you that are required to step back and think
critically about what's happening to you are impaired by the drugs.
Speaker 7 (16:45):
And so you're in.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
This, for me, like a decade and a half, almost
like intoxication state, and then you're getting all these messages
from all these well meaning therapists and psychiatrists saying, oh,
you're not feeling helped, Oh you're feeling worse. Well, you're
sickness is progressing. Like let's try this new drug, or
let's up your dose, or let's switch you to that.
It's never like, let's all just pause for a moment
(17:09):
here and step back and wonder if maybe this whole
thing is wrong and you don't need any of this.
Speaker 7 (17:15):
No one is doing that.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Of course, it was maybe about a two and a
half hour conversation with Tucker Carlson. It was fascinating to
hear her story in person after I had read the book.
And I'm gonna play a couple more clips. Obviously I'm
not playing the whole two and a half hours, but
I picked a couple of pieces out that I thought
(17:37):
were really poignant and relevant. Again, the theme of this
is who you are in her book, and I'm going
to quote from the book in a little bit because
she really does go in depth into the science. Excuse me,
the ex is so called experts, right, the approach that
(18:01):
psychiatry and the entire medical illness industry healthcare, which is
not healthcare. So we all know the you know, the
dogma and the approach that patients are, the path that
they're walked down without anyone questioning anything. And what is
the data? What's the actual data? You take it at
(18:26):
face value because again this is the whatever a study
affect famous sixties study. The guy in the white coat,
person in authority tells you something that generally they're just
repeating because it was told to them. Have they actually
read the studies of the data. Have they searched for themselves?
(18:48):
But no, they are given. You're given the reason for
your suffering. They speak with authority, and that's the path
you're on, and no one's asking any questions. But it
does the data support the way that these drugs are used?
What are the actual studies? Now, anyone in their little
(19:11):
genius little selves can go to the FDA website and
look up the inserts and the studies that are behind
any any medication, any drug that the FDA has approved.
And they're esteemed little selves themselves, but anything, you know,
(19:32):
the labels are there for all to see on the
FDA website. You do not have to take my word
or Laura's word, or anybody's word for it. You can
do your own investigations. What are the studies that back
up the claims? And this is twofold and well Laura
talks about this a lot, the line of chemical imbalance.
(19:55):
You have a chemical imbalance in your brain, and these
drugs are there to treat that. These drugs will fix that.
Where did the chemical imbalance gig even come from in
the first place. I want to pause really quick and
give a little bit of a shout out to Anatomy
(20:16):
of an Epidemic. I'm currently part way through this book
by Robert Whittaker, and this is something that Laura sites
was again part of her journey, kind of first jolted
her into asking some pertinent questions. Maybe it's not me
that because I've deteriorated for a decade and a half,
(20:37):
I'm more crazy than I was. They tell me I'm
treatment resistant, there's nothing they can do for me now.
And am I subjected to a life? And she was,
I want to say, you know, thirty or whatever at
this point, mid thirties, this is my life of in
and out of hospitalization. I can't work, I'm foggy, I
can't function as a person, I don't have relationships and
(20:59):
never mind quality relationships. I don't have any relationships at
all that I can maintain. And you're telling me this
is just me, it's just my brain disease. Well, what
what do you have for me to back that up?
Which is never given an answer? How do you actually
evaluate of chemical imbalance in the brain? Was that even mean?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
So?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
The first couple of chapters of Anatomy of an Epidemic
addresses the history of the pharmaceutical companies and the quest
in post World War two America and beyond, the quest
for the so called magic bullets of medical intervention to
(21:44):
cure disease. And they It started out as simple bacterial infections, right.
The scientists, these chemists essentially and biologists, wanted a magic
bullet that could go in and attack the talks or
attack the invading cells, the bad cells in one's body,
(22:05):
and leave the healthy ones behind, a targeted approach to
killing the bad stuff, solving the problem, and curing the patient.
And they, by hook or by crook, many years in
the lab, ended up developing some very early like antibiotics, penicillin,
for example, one or two other compounds that they found
(22:27):
when in and eradicated the bad guys floating around in
your body. And it was a so called magic bullet.
And over the course of like, yay, the success on
that level, look at what we've done, amazing advances in
medicine that really really had provable, discernible results, definable results,
(22:54):
divinable definable parameters, and success took that we a magic
bullet approach to mental health. But it went awry, It
went askew. They they didn't find magic bullets. They approached
the problem in a different way, right they you're dealing
(23:15):
with someone with a bacterial infection or systemic you know,
a viral infection. Whatever. They knew what they were trying
to target. They knew the root of the problem. But
in osay brain chemistry or mental illness, it's a very
vague to begin with. Patient presents with a bunch of symptoms,
(23:36):
but what is actually the matter. You can't put your
finger on it, you can't define it in a biological,
definitive way. And the approach in the laboratory was a
sort of ass backwards, one of like, oh, we gave
this compound to the rats. It made them rather tranquil. Well,
(23:57):
I wonder what happened? How did that happen? But look
their behavior change, We changed their behavior. I wonder what
applications we can use this compound for. And the so
called science of the you know, the pharmacology the compounds
that were developed to treat mental illness started with while
(24:22):
we're alleviating symptoms, and then we're going to wonder after
the fact what it actually does biochemically to you and
what are we going to call it? Like, what do
what do we call this new class of compound that
produces a particular reaction or behavior in the patient. They
(24:43):
had no way of saying, well, we definitively remedied or
cured anything. Super fascinating, it's super super great to know
all this. All right, everybody, I'm going to take a quick,
quickty quick pause here for my next commercial break. When
I come back, we're gonna play a few more clips
from Laura Delano on Tucker Carlson, and I do want
(25:06):
to read a little bit of info about, you know,
specifically when she was first prescribed these couple of medications drugs.
Excuse me, as a young teenager, what actually bro the
circumstances behind that? All right, everybody, Mama Bear's radio. Kristin
Hurley here I'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Mama Bear's Radio.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Welcome back, Mama Bear's Radio. Kristin Hurley. Here, here we go,
bottom of the hour. Break is in the can. I
am going to pull up my clips from Lord Delano
speaking with Tucker Carlson. I really want to get a
couple of more of these on the air. So, without
further ado, so this is Laura speaking about iatrogenesis. Word
(26:18):
we've talked about a little bit before with respect to
sort of the gender bending madness crisis in America. I
think Abigail Schreyer's recent book when I was going over that,
oh maybe half a year ago, talked a lot about
that a man made disaster, shall we say. So here's
Lord Delano without further ado, talking about iatrogenesis.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Here.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
I was just feeling like this mushy, you know, just
totally incapacitated mind that couldn't engage with the world anymore
and let alone like feel creative and curious.
Speaker 7 (26:56):
And I was just I was just like a zombie
basic life force.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
It sounds like it totally was.
Speaker 6 (27:02):
And that idea of a life force like, to me,
this whole thing at the heart of this crisis, that
we are in because it is a crisis. It's just
not a mental health crisis. It's a crisis of psychiatric
iatrogenesis is what I call it. The word iatrogenic means
treatment induced or doctor induced harm. I believe that this huge,
(27:23):
these huge numbers of people who who are in so
much pain, A huge driving force of it is the
fact that this entire paradigm is actually leading to more
more suffering, and it does more violence, more disconnect, more polarization.
When you're under the influence of these drugs for years
and years and years, like you said you do, I
(27:45):
won't speak for everyone.
Speaker 7 (27:46):
I'll speak for myself and.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
The thousands of fellows who might have known. Over all
these years, you lose touch with with your human spirit,
with you know, your your sense of a liveness in
the world, your ability to feel connected to the sunlight
on your cheek, to the you know, the sweet child
on the sidewalk, to God, to serenity. You lose the
(28:11):
ability to feel connected to any of that. And you're
thinking the whole time it's you and you're.
Speaker 7 (28:15):
Just getting sicker.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
And when you when you scale that out and think
about the consequences on our society of that with so many,
especially young people on these drugs without even realizing that
this is happening to them because of this medication spellbinding phenomenon.
I mean, to me, it's like, no wonder our country
is more polarized than it's ever been.
Speaker 7 (28:37):
It's obviously much more complicated.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
I'm not trying to say it's all psych drugs, but
I think it's a big piece here of why we're
also disconnected.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Okay, in the interest of time, I'm going to go
on and play another clip, and then I do want
to read a little bit from her book. This is
again this clip sort of addressing the well, if we're
if these drugs work so well, why are we all
sick and nuts? And why have suicide rates gone through
the roof? You cannot, again, in good clear conscience, look
(29:12):
at the data. Sixty six million Americans taking one or
more of these classes of psychiatric drugs. What are we
doing and how has the trajectory gone from a small
percentage to through the roof in our country, in our
(29:35):
communities and our families, And are we really doing any better?
All right, stay tuned. This is Laura Delano again.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
So I guess we could say, but at least the
suicide rates going down and people are happier.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
I mean, you would think, but as of twenty twenty two,
one person killed him or herself every eleven minutes.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
I think it was fifty thousand people killed themselves.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
So like, that's kind of the bottom line.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
I don't need to to have a medical degree to
say that if the number of people, the absolute number
and the percentage of people taking these drugs rises and
the suicide rate rises, you know, we can argue.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
About cost and effect. But they're not working.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
I mean, get I mean, in what sense are they
working if more people are killing themselves?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
And what's wild? Tucker?
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Am I missing something? I don't want to be a
philistine here. I want to be like sensitive.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
For the science you're seeing it clears day. And what's
wild is that in these drug labels, for many, many years,
in the adverse effects section, you will see antidepressants have
been documented to increase rates or increase suicidal and homicidal ideation,
even in some of the drug labels. So this isn't
like we're just realizing that these drugs can actually make
(30:45):
people worse.
Speaker 7 (30:45):
It's been in the drug labels the whole time.
Speaker 5 (30:48):
These mass shootings and the calls for gun control and
to take my shotguns away, and all this stuff got
me involved in like what is causing all these shootings?
Because there are a lot of shootings, right, and in
every case you look at the person just full of
psychiatric meds.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
And so I brought this up a couple of.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Times in public, and whoa you get attacked for even
raising the question like is there connection between necessaries and
mass shootings?
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Why is that crazy?
Speaker 7 (31:13):
Even the question? And people can what is that?
Speaker 6 (31:15):
It's it's it's You would think that people would of
course want to have that question asked and answered, and
if they had, if they had true faith in their products,
they would be like, let's look at it, let's be
transparent about this, let's let's have open access to the data.
Let's do whatever we need to do to show you
all that our products.
Speaker 7 (31:35):
Don't cause violence. But of course it's the opposite.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
That is, in a nutshell, the super crux of the problem.
This extends, of course, not just through the psychiatric drugs
provided to again sixty six million Americans in counting, but
everything else that we're pumping in our arms or down
(32:02):
our mouths or whatever. These products, which is what they
are compared to the word medicine. Perhaps, where's the open
kimono about the safety and efficacy? We are told what
we are supposed to be hearing. But again, as Laura
(32:26):
points out, in the events where something does go awry,
you would think that the people and this is not
limited again to this class of drugs, but the manufacturers
would be guaranteed right. How many times do you hear
how many million times a day from commercials on TV
(32:46):
or you walk in a store or whatever. We guarantee
our product money back, send it back, tell us, give
us your feedback. How does it work for you? Does
it not? We're constantly on a quest to better our
products and better our services to you, the American consumer.
We want to do right by you. We don't want
(33:08):
to cause harm. We want to prosper and enrich everyone
on a number of levels. We don't hear that from
the pharmaceutical companies. It is shut up, don't ask any questions,
and we don't have to tell you anything. Again. You
can go on the FDA website and look at the
(33:29):
product labels. You can look at the studies. The studies
that were provided to the FDA in order to pass
them through. One thing to note A, the companies themselves
pay for the majority of these so called studies that
show the products work just fine or not, and they
(33:50):
get passed through anyway. So that's number one, they pay
for and run their own studies. And two, how many
studies were done for these products? I got thrown out
and we're not provided to the FDA as proof. I
will take my break right now, get back. I want
(34:10):
to read a little bit from her book just a second,
and then get back to sort of the last clip
from Laura speaking about this again. I'm scratching the surface.
It's a vast, vast landscape to deal with. It's a
touchy subject. I really just want to bring this to
(34:34):
everyone's attention. As Trump says lately on his tweets, thank
you for your attention in this matter. It will behoove
us all. It is our little survival as a species.
And how are we going to care for one another?
It behooves us all to ask questions. All right, Mama
Bear's Radio, Kristin Hurley here, I'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Bears Radio.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
We'll be right back. You say it was too steep
(35:51):
to climb?
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Welcome back, to Mama Bear's Radio. My last little segment
here before the top of the hour, stay tuned for
School's Out drivetime show after this with Yours truly an Alexis,
maybe one or two other stragglers, and then after that
at six o'clock tonight Surfsgate City with Henro always a
really great show coming up on AM thirteen forty k
(36:22):
O m y here, Okay, so I am talking. I'm
going to read from Unshrunk by Laura Delano and she says,
so she was right when a little off the rails
at thirteen, Who doesn't She's prescribed two drugs after like
an appointment, one appointment with a psychiatrist told she was bipolar.
So Laura says there were a number of important facts
(36:46):
about depicoat and prozac, so those were the two prescriptions
she was given at thirteen. She said that I didn't
know when Anuja prescribed them to me, things that would
have been impossible for me to have uncovered as you
as I was, and with the internet just budding. This
was nineteen ninety seven and at that point neither drug
(37:07):
had been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration
for psychiatric use and children. Prozac didn't gain US approval
until the early aughts. As of twenty twenty four, depicote
still doesn't have it. Let me repeat that, not approved
for psychiatric use in children. These are the two prescriptions
(37:27):
she's given. In fact, she says, if you look at
the official drug label for depicoat, not the patient pamphlet
you're handed to the pharmacy, but the complete fifty seven
page label on the FDA website. It states that only
one trial was conducted on one hundred and fifty children
to determine the psychiatric efficacy of depicote, and that such
(37:50):
efficacy quote was not established. Anuja was prescribing these drugs
to me off label, meaning for a use or to
a specific population that had not been determined by the
FDA to be safe or effective, and she says it
is legal for medical professionals to prescribe drugs off label
(38:11):
to their patients, and at least in the psychiatric context,
this is not uncommon. Depicote was approved in nineteen ninety
five for the treatment of mania in adults based on
two trials that each lasted three weeks. In one trial,
patients were put into either a placebo or a depicote
(38:31):
group in another a placebo, a depicote, or a lithium group.
Before patients were started on their respective trial drugs, psychiatrists
scored them using subjective rating scales that included measures like
how fast they seemed to be speaking, how distractable they appeared,
and how well groomed they seemed. At the end of
(38:52):
the three weeks, the scores were calculated again and compared
with the previous ones, averaging the two studies. In the
opinions of the assessing researchers, fifty nine percent of the
depicote taking patients showed at least a thirty percent reduction
and symptoms score, compared with about twenty eight percent of
their plusybotaking counterparts. She goes a little bit. She says,
(39:14):
for reference, on the sixty point young Mania rating scale,
that's the thing which was used in the first trial,
your score would vary by eight points if you appeared
quote hostile or quote uncooperative on one day compared with
appearing to have no irritability three weeks later. Similarly, appearing
(39:35):
to have quote pressured speech on one day while appearing
to have quote no increase in the rate or amount
of your speech three weeks later could change your score
by eight points. Together, that sixteen point difference would be
enough to declare you've had a nearly thirty percent reduction
in your symptoms. She says this was the sole basis
upon which depicote was determined to be an effective treatment
(39:58):
for acute mania in ad adults, although the label still
says more than two decades later, that quote the safety
and effectiveness of depicote for long term use in mania
i e. More than three weeks has not been systemic,
systematically evaluated and controlled clinical trials. Laura goes on to
(40:22):
say a close look at the scientific literature underpinning the
FDA's approval of prozac and other selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors
these are the SSRI in idepressants reveals that the trials
were typically of similar design to the two conducted on
depicote in that they mostly lasted only a few weeks
and determined outcomes based on subjective clinician administered rating scales.
(40:49):
She goes a little bit in depth here, I don't
have time for the Hamilton rating scale for depression. Again,
it's like a score basis. Clinician asks his patient to
rank a list of symptoms such as depressed mood sadness, hopelessness,
helpless worthlessness, guilt, insomnia, agitation, and anxiety. On a number scale.
(41:09):
The number of points adds up. If you score at
between x and X, you're diagnosed with mild depression, a
couple other points up, moderate depression, couple other points up
severe depression, et cetera. She says, for reference, a six
point difference can be obtained solely by reporting changes in sleep.
(41:30):
Four points is the difference between having no agitation and
biting your nails. Any significant, sorry, any clinically significant efficacy
that SSRI drugs showed in trials submitted to the FDA
was about the same as that of the inactive placebos
against which they were compared. I don't have time to
(41:52):
keep going. I do want to play this last clip
of hers all of this. Don't take her word for it,
look it up yourself. On the FDA site. You can
look into these studies. You can ask the same questions.
It's stunning to think that someone told you you have
a lifelong disease, lifelong brain disease, and here are the
(42:15):
drugs you need to be on for the rest of
your life. Oh but they were only tested in studies
for three weeks. In what world does that make sense?
In what world is that not someone lying to your
face or making us up? Or is that a really
(42:38):
great market that's like the pinnacle of a marketing campaign
for an industry. You have a deficiency. Oh but we
don't measure that. There's no test, there's no blood test.
There's no measurable, discernible data that shows that you're a
chemical imbalanced. But here are the drugs you need to take.
Oh but efficacy has not been established past three weeks,
(43:04):
never mind long term use. There's no data on long
term use for these. She was on nineteen different medications
off and on, with all of them in various cocktails
at any one time, maybe five at the same time,
for fifteen years. Her withdrawal story is incredible. I'm gonna
play this last little clip before we go. This is
(43:25):
Laura Delano.
Speaker 6 (43:26):
Life had deteriorated to such a degree that I couldn't
take care of myself, I couldn't work, I had no friends,
and I was told, like the message that I received was,
you know, unfortunately or bipolar disorder has progressed to such
a degree that you're now treatment resistant. Come, yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Spend millions of dollars.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
These people take all of their drug, you get worse,
and they're like an unfortunately law or treatment resistant.
Speaker 6 (43:58):
Literally literally, And so you know this, this this phrase
stream and resistance story. It's so crazy, but it's a
brilliant it's a brilliant business model because of course, you know,
if you feel if you feel better after starting a
psych drug, the credit goes to the drug.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Of course these helped you.
Speaker 7 (44:17):
If you don't feel better or if.
Speaker 6 (44:18):
You feel worse, yes, it's never the drug, it's it's you.
And just how how extra defective you are and what
has now happened? And Tucker, you're not gonna believe this,
It's like, I'm so, it's totally bonkers. And what I
did a lot of I woven a lot of research
into my book and I I and I went down
this rabbit hole of looking at the current landscape of
(44:42):
psychiatry and like where is it heading? Because obviously these
this drug based paradigm is failing, so like what's next
for them?
Speaker 7 (44:49):
This new unfolding.
Speaker 6 (44:51):
Chapter of psychiatry is literally exploiting is this treatment resistance concept.
Speaker 7 (44:56):
It's building a new a.
Speaker 6 (44:58):
New chapter of of medical devices, literally inserting electrodes into
the brain that are wired. So it's called deep brain stimulation,
where you if you have treatment resistant depression because your
meds haven't helped you, don't worry, Tucker. Now you just
go in for a simple procedure. We're just going to
open up your chest cavity and sert a heart a
(45:20):
pacemaker like device there, and run some wires up into
your brain and then your doctor can press a remote
control button to send electrical stimulation, which we believe is
going to help target the particular areas of your brain
that are involved.
Speaker 7 (45:35):
This is literal, literally happening.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Yep. Well what will they think of next? Anyways? To
be continued again, someone's got to say it. This is
something that has been obvious to me personally for a
long time. It's near and dear to my world and
(46:02):
the people I love in it. And I just thought
it was such a compelling book, really incredibly well written,
very easy to read, but she has really quality information.
I just encourage everyone to go out and pick up
a book. Unshrunk. Sorry, where's my brain? I must need
(46:28):
a pill? Unshrunk by Laura Delano. All Right, So This
has been Mama Bear's Radio. Kristin Hurley here, I'll be
back next week. The Apage strong founder Matt Boudreau. Other
than that, everybody keep her claws out and enjoy the
rest of your week.
Speaker 7 (46:45):
Somewhere Roster
Speaker 5 (46:50):
And Ao m y LESLVA beach home of Schoolhouse Radio.
The California Mama Bears have been forced out of hibernation.
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Wow.
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Fierce guardians of our future. Mama Bear's fight for parents rights,
defense of the family, and God given freedoms everywhere. You're
listening to Mama Bears Radio with your host, The New Normal,
Kristen Hurley.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Welcome back to Mama Bear's Radio, our number two of
safe and effective radio, gold standard broadcasting. Thank you very much. Well,
I started our number one like hope you had a
riotously good weekend. I don't know if that's still all
going on, but coming soon to a summer of love
(01:00):
near you. Apparently nothing better to do than to burn
our cities down again. In the meantime, though, I want
to talk a little bit this hour, as mentioned about
Unshrunk Story of psychiatric treatment resistance, a book I just read.
Laura Dellano, the author has been in the media and
in the news. After this book came out, she herself
(01:23):
went on a journey of I think it was about
a decade and a half of being diagnosed and being
a psychiatry patient. She took about nineteen different medications over
the course of her years. She was hospitalized a number
of times, had an identity as an mentally ill person,
(01:44):
and she shook that off. She had a moment in
time where she thought, maybe it's not me, maybe it's
the pills. And her journey ever since has been super compelling.
She presents just such a compelling it's her story. As
she says, she's not talking smack necessarily, but she's just
(02:06):
providing information. The book is a wealth of data and
information about this really important subject. I want to start
off this hour with a quote. This is actually not
from her book. This is from Anatomy of an Epidemic,
a book that she saw, I think about fifteen years ago.
(02:27):
She said that really sparked her questioning what the direction
her life was. In Magic Bullets, psychiatric drugs, and the
Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America by Robert Whitaker,
author of a book called Mad in America, and there's
actually a website by that name as well. He starts
off one of those chapters quoting Thomas Hawksley quote the
(02:49):
great tragedy of science, the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis
by an ugly fact. Whoops science, right? We think that,
like we live and die by the science, as every
single one of us experienced in the last four or
five years getting up there. Trust the science, trust the science,
(03:13):
and beneath that facade of like, oh, the important people
that we know the science is just a load of
horse petuity and there's no data to back it up,
and it's gaslighting and coercion and dollar science, the almighty
dollar behind what we're told is good for us. And
(03:36):
so Laura's journey is super so compelling. I actually really
hesitated bringing this into Mama Bear's radio. Number of people
around me are decades into psychiatric medications and treatment. It's
(03:58):
a tough it's a tough one to like vocalize because
there's a lot of motion wrapped up into it. Obviously,
it's hard to it's hard to question and wonder if
you are making I don't want to say making the
(04:19):
wrong decisions, but if something you're doing isn't right. That's
really tough to self analyze and to set aside one's
ego or set aside ones you know your entire reality
and ask the tough questions about yourself in the direction
of your life and the choices you're making. Really hard
(04:43):
for us to admit we're wrong on like such a
superficial level, like, ah, I picked the wrong donut this
morning to eat that one gave me indigestion. Maybe I
should have chosen the pink donut, or or like not,
you know, not to be goofy, but on like the
really easy ones for us humans, it's really hard to
(05:05):
admit that you're wrong, even though we had the best
intentions and I didn't know, and there's all these excuses, right,
It's like you still get the ticket even though you
tell the HP guy like I didn't know it was
a twenty five mile an hour zone, ignorance of the law.
You know, it doesn't get you anywhere, whatever my silly metaphors.
But in all seriousness, we have to I don't know.
(05:32):
You know, if you're interested in a journey in your
time on this planet for optimizing and for doing it
well and having a life experience, right, if you're able
to just set aside the busyness of the day to
day and all the all of the pressure and all
of the variables and all the crap you have to
deal with even the best of circumstances. Is like God
(05:56):
gives everyone your challenges, and you could be at the
top of your little game. You could you know, the
billionaires a so we've seen, are all a little kookie
make crazy choices for themselves all the way down to
you know, just the poorest of the poor and the
people that just have the hardest lift, heaviest lift in life.
(06:19):
You are not exempt from a certain amount of free
will and the way that you conduct yourself and the
way that you can achieve things, whether tangible or intangible,
for yourself as a soul. I think all I'm just
(06:41):
saying is like we're all given the opportunity to value
our time here alive on earth, and make the best
choices and conduct ourselves in a certain way and grow
and change. It's like, what does God want for you
or from you? Is a path of under standing in
growth and adhering to just the progress of the planet
(07:10):
in general, I think, which is achieved by asking questions
and optimizing. Anyway, So back to this story on trunk,
back to I suppose my original question here was like
I did somewhat hesitate bringing this up. I think it's
really great for everyone. I encourage everyone to go check
this book out, whether you know people or not on
(07:32):
these medications, and I bet you do, because, as Laura says,
and if you can look you can look it up
on the CDC website. And this is as of a
few years ago. This is as of twenty twenty to
sixty million adults in our country are on some sort
of psychiatric medicine. Whether that's excuse me, medicine. I generally
(07:53):
don't say that pill medication. Drug. It's drug. It alters
your It alters your entire self, not just your brain chemistry.
It's a farce. Sixty million adults on some sort of
SSRI or mood stabilizer or anti anxiety or you name them.
(08:14):
Six million children. And this is as of a few
years ago. The New York Times article that I mentioned that,
which is where I first this caught my attention, says,
the portion of American adults taking them, meaning these pharmaceuticals,
approached twenty five percent of American adults during the pandemic,
(08:42):
more than triple what it was in the early nineteen nineties. Well,
that's a hell of a marketing scheme. Good job, guys,
brought to you by Pfizer. I mean, I jokingly say that,
but it's a hell of a growth path. And the
central central theme behind the question that Laura is asking
(09:03):
The question that everyone should be saying asking of themselves
is like, are we getting any better with this path?
But this approach to mental illness, everybody, like I just said,
everyone on God's Green and brown Earth has their set
(09:26):
of challenges. No one is exempt from emotions and kind
of nutsy times in your life where you question what
the heck is going on and what is wrong with me?
All the way from you know, sort of very superficial
experiences with that to times and periods in your life
(09:47):
where you like, are like, I feel like I'm in
the twilight zone. That's been my experience. Existential crises, moments
as you grow and change, and sometimes you go through
your day and you're like, I'm not even sure what
reality this is. Everybody's got that to a certain extent
or more. And to have chosen an approach to treating
(10:13):
this quote unquote from the scientists and industry brought to
you by Pfizer, and to have that kind of trajectory,
what did we just say with the New York Times,
if they're to be believed, triple what twenty five percent
of American adults taking these drugs triple what it was
in the early nineteen nineties. You know, anything on a
(10:37):
trajectory where the line is going up on your graph,
Does that not, at its very base level mean that
this approach does not work? Suicide rates through the roof
young and old alike. Oh wait a minute. Is psychiatric
(11:01):
treatment helping us as a society and a population? If
it were, well, why do we have manifold more people
on these drugs and with mental illness problems walking the
streets of Santa Cruz or coming to a neighborhood near you,
(11:23):
People that clearly are out of their minds, kids being
medicated at increasingly younger ages and schools. Are we helping
ourselves out? Any How can anyone who actually posits that
question and seeks to find actual answers, How can anyone
(11:46):
be like, oh, yeah, we're doing a great job of
caring for our emotionally disturbed people or our you know,
anxiety ridden society. Oh yeah, top of our game. Oh yeah,
it's working on a quivocally you can't say that. So
these are the things that Laura talks about. I am
going to play a couple of clips. Let me take
(12:07):
my break, we will come back. I will play a
couple of clips from her and Tucker kind of as
an introduction. I want to go into her book just
a little bit. And again, I'm only going to scratch
the surface of this here in my humble little Mama
Bear's Hour. Maybe we'll revisit at some point and be
fun to get her on as a guest. But it
(12:28):
bears questioning and again, in the spirit of Mama Bear's
Radio and my whole approach to what I want to
do to further our country and to shepherd our next
generation and all of the things I talk about, we
have to have these conversations. We are, as we've talked about,
(12:52):
sicker and sicker. Our kids are sicker and sicker. They're
more mentally ill. Everyone's in a total crisis and it
doesn't do anyone any good to look the other way.
All right, here we go, everybody, Mama Bear's Radio. I'm
Kristin Hurley. I will take my break and be back
with some clips from Laura Delano.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Mama Bear's Radio.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Times home.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
You're afraid to bay the fake.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
So you find yourself somebody who can do the job
for free when you need the bed alone, because.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Your man is that it sounds that's.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
The time you get me running and you know'd.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Welcome back to Mama Bear's Radio. Kristin Hurley. Here we
are talking about Unshrunk. This is a book I read recently,
a story of psychiatric treatment resistance by Laura Delano. I
want to play a couple of clips of Laura. She
was on talker Carlson from her own mouth, right out
(14:36):
of the New York Times article about her. She's born
in nineteen eighty three, five years before prozac entered the market,
and Miss Delano was part of the first large wave
of Americans to be prescribed medications in their teens. In
the story, you'll you'll find she was thirteen and they
said you're bipolar. She'd had a couple of trip out experiences.
(14:59):
She was at hop top student in her high pressure
cooker academic environment in Connecticut, top of her squash team
and whatnot, super athletic, and she started acting out. Who
doesn't at thirteen thirteen? I always say this to parents,
thirteen is like the worst year ever. Eighth Grade's awful.
(15:22):
Everybody evens out a little bit when they hit high school.
But anyways, and she says in her book, right this
is part of her journey she embraced this over the years.
She took that label that was given to her at thirteen,
and it became part of her identity for years, for
(15:42):
decade and a half, and that single prescription she was
given turned into expanded into a cocktail. Like we said,
about nineteen different drugs over the years. So let me
play this. This is her and Tucker. She's talking about
the spellbinding effect of these medications. This is Laura Delano.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
I felt dead, I felt disconnected, I felt I felt
I felt like I was trapped in this kind of
sludgy morass of that was separating me from from the
world around me. I just and I really truly believed
that that was me and my own faulty biology. And
(16:24):
so it's so insidious, like I think it's it's A
psychiatrist named Peter Braggan calls it medication spellbinding, which I
think is a really compelling phrase, because the very parts
of you that are required to step back and think
critically about what's happening to you are impaired by the drugs.
Speaker 7 (16:45):
And so you're in.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
This, for me, like a decade and a half, almost
like intoxication state, and then you're getting all these messages
from all these well meaning therapists and psychiatrists saying, oh,
you're not feeling helped, Oh you're feeling worse. Well, you're
sickness is progressing. Like let's try this new drug, or
let's up your dose, or let's switch you to that.
It's never like, let's all just pause for a moment
(17:09):
here and step back and wonder if maybe this whole
thing is wrong and you don't need any of this.
Speaker 7 (17:15):
No one is doing that.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Of course, it was maybe about a two and a
half hour conversation with Tucker Carlson. It was fascinating to
hear her story in person after I had read the book.
And I'm gonna play a couple more clips. Obviously I'm
not playing the whole two and a half hours, but
I picked a couple of pieces out that I thought
(17:37):
were really poignant and relevant. Again, the theme of this
is who you are in her book, and I'm going
to quote from the book in a little bit because
she really does go in depth into the science. Excuse me,
the ex is so called experts, right, the approach that
(18:01):
psychiatry and the entire medical illness industry healthcare, which is
not healthcare. So we all know the you know, the
dogma and the approach that patients are, the path that
they're walked down without anyone questioning anything. And what is
the data? What's the actual data? You take it at
(18:26):
face value because again this is the whatever a study
affect famous sixties study. The guy in the white coat,
person in authority tells you something that generally they're just
repeating because it was told to them. Have they actually
read the studies of the data. Have they searched for themselves?
(18:48):
But no, they are given. You're given the reason for
your suffering. They speak with authority, and that's the path
you're on, and no one's asking any questions. But it
does the data support the way that these drugs are used?
What are the actual studies? Now, anyone in their little
(19:11):
genius little selves can go to the FDA website and
look up the inserts and the studies that are behind
any any medication, any drug that the FDA has approved.
And they're esteemed little selves themselves, but anything, you know,
(19:32):
the labels are there for all to see on the
FDA website. You do not have to take my word
or Laura's word, or anybody's word for it. You can
do your own investigations. What are the studies that back
up the claims? And this is twofold and well Laura
talks about this a lot, the line of chemical imbalance.
(19:55):
You have a chemical imbalance in your brain, and these
drugs are there to treat that. These drugs will fix that.
Where did the chemical imbalance gig even come from in
the first place. I want to pause really quick and
give a little bit of a shout out to Anatomy
(20:16):
of an Epidemic. I'm currently part way through this book
by Robert Whittaker, and this is something that Laura sites
was again part of her journey, kind of first jolted
her into asking some pertinent questions. Maybe it's not me
that because I've deteriorated for a decade and a half,
(20:37):
I'm more crazy than I was. They tell me I'm
treatment resistant, there's nothing they can do for me now.
And am I subjected to a life? And she was,
I want to say, you know, thirty or whatever at
this point, mid thirties, this is my life of in
and out of hospitalization. I can't work, I'm foggy, I
can't function as a person, I don't have relationships and
(20:59):
never mind quality relationships. I don't have any relationships at
all that I can maintain. And you're telling me this
is just me, it's just my brain disease. Well, what
what do you have for me to back that up?
Which is never given an answer? How do you actually
evaluate of chemical imbalance in the brain? Was that even mean?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
So?
Speaker 3 (21:23):
The first couple of chapters of Anatomy of an Epidemic
addresses the history of the pharmaceutical companies and the quest
in post World War two America and beyond, the quest
for the so called magic bullets of medical intervention to
(21:44):
cure disease. And they It started out as simple bacterial infections, right.
The scientists, these chemists essentially and biologists, wanted a magic
bullet that could go in and attack the talks or
attack the invading cells, the bad cells in one's body,
(22:05):
and leave the healthy ones behind, a targeted approach to
killing the bad stuff, solving the problem, and curing the patient.
And they, by hook or by crook, many years in
the lab, ended up developing some very early like antibiotics, penicillin,
for example, one or two other compounds that they found
(22:27):
when in and eradicated the bad guys floating around in
your body. And it was a so called magic bullet.
And over the course of like, yay, the success on
that level, look at what we've done, amazing advances in
medicine that really really had provable, discernible results, definable results,
(22:54):
divinable definable parameters, and success took that we a magic
bullet approach to mental health. But it went awry, It
went askew. They they didn't find magic bullets. They approached
the problem in a different way, right they you're dealing
(23:15):
with someone with a bacterial infection or systemic you know,
a viral infection. Whatever. They knew what they were trying
to target. They knew the root of the problem. But
in osay brain chemistry or mental illness, it's a very
vague to begin with. Patient presents with a bunch of symptoms,
(23:36):
but what is actually the matter. You can't put your
finger on it, you can't define it in a biological,
definitive way. And the approach in the laboratory was a
sort of ass backwards, one of like, oh, we gave
this compound to the rats. It made them rather tranquil. Well,
(23:57):
I wonder what happened? How did that happen? But look
their behavior change, We changed their behavior. I wonder what
applications we can use this compound for. And the so
called science of the you know, the pharmacology the compounds
that were developed to treat mental illness started with while
(24:22):
we're alleviating symptoms, and then we're going to wonder after
the fact what it actually does biochemically to you and
what are we going to call it? Like, what do
what do we call this new class of compound that
produces a particular reaction or behavior in the patient. They
(24:43):
had no way of saying, well, we definitively remedied or
cured anything. Super fascinating, it's super super great to know
all this. All right, everybody, I'm going to take a quick,
quickty quick pause here for my next commercial break. When
I come back, we're gonna play a few more clips
from Laura Delano on Tucker Carlson, and I do want
(25:06):
to read a little bit of info about, you know,
specifically when she was first prescribed these couple of medications drugs.
Excuse me, as a young teenager, what actually bro the
circumstances behind that? All right, everybody, Mama Bear's radio. Kristin
Hurley here I'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Mama Bear's Radio.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Welcome back, Mama Bear's Radio. Kristin Hurley. Here, here we go,
bottom of the hour. Break is in the can. I
am going to pull up my clips from Lord Delano
speaking with Tucker Carlson. I really want to get a
couple of more of these on the air. So, without
further ado, so this is Laura speaking about iatrogenesis. Word
(26:18):
we've talked about a little bit before with respect to
sort of the gender bending madness crisis in America. I
think Abigail Schreyer's recent book when I was going over that,
oh maybe half a year ago, talked a lot about
that a man made disaster, shall we say. So here's
Lord Delano without further ado, talking about iatrogenesis.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Here.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
I was just feeling like this mushy, you know, just
totally incapacitated mind that couldn't engage with the world anymore
and let alone like feel creative and curious.
Speaker 7 (26:56):
And I was just I was just like a zombie
basic life force.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
It sounds like it totally was.
Speaker 6 (27:02):
And that idea of a life force like, to me,
this whole thing at the heart of this crisis, that
we are in because it is a crisis. It's just
not a mental health crisis. It's a crisis of psychiatric
iatrogenesis is what I call it. The word iatrogenic means
treatment induced or doctor induced harm. I believe that this huge,
(27:23):
these huge numbers of people who who are in so
much pain, A huge driving force of it is the
fact that this entire paradigm is actually leading to more
more suffering, and it does more violence, more disconnect, more polarization.
When you're under the influence of these drugs for years
and years and years, like you said you do, I
(27:45):
won't speak for everyone.
Speaker 7 (27:46):
I'll speak for myself and.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
The thousands of fellows who might have known. Over all
these years, you lose touch with with your human spirit,
with you know, your your sense of a liveness in
the world, your ability to feel connected to the sunlight
on your cheek, to the you know, the sweet child
on the sidewalk, to God, to serenity. You lose the
(28:11):
ability to feel connected to any of that. And you're
thinking the whole time it's you and you're.
Speaker 7 (28:15):
Just getting sicker.
Speaker 6 (28:17):
And when you when you scale that out and think
about the consequences on our society of that with so many,
especially young people on these drugs without even realizing that
this is happening to them because of this medication spellbinding phenomenon.
I mean, to me, it's like, no wonder our country
is more polarized than it's ever been.
Speaker 7 (28:37):
It's obviously much more complicated.
Speaker 6 (28:39):
I'm not trying to say it's all psych drugs, but
I think it's a big piece here of why we're
also disconnected.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Okay, in the interest of time, I'm going to go
on and play another clip, and then I do want
to read a little bit from her book. This is
again this clip sort of addressing the well, if we're
if these drugs work so well, why are we all
sick and nuts? And why have suicide rates gone through
the roof? You cannot, again, in good clear conscience, look
(29:12):
at the data. Sixty six million Americans taking one or
more of these classes of psychiatric drugs. What are we
doing and how has the trajectory gone from a small
percentage to through the roof in our country, in our
(29:35):
communities and our families, And are we really doing any better?
All right, stay tuned. This is Laura Delano again.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
So I guess we could say, but at least the
suicide rates going down and people are happier.
Speaker 6 (29:47):
I mean, you would think, but as of twenty twenty two,
one person killed him or herself every eleven minutes.
Speaker 7 (29:55):
I think it was fifty thousand people killed themselves.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
So like, that's kind of the bottom line.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
I don't need to to have a medical degree to
say that if the number of people, the absolute number
and the percentage of people taking these drugs rises and
the suicide rate rises, you know, we can argue.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
About cost and effect. But they're not working.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
I mean, get I mean, in what sense are they
working if more people are killing themselves?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
And what's wild? Tucker?
Speaker 5 (30:18):
Am I missing something? I don't want to be a
philistine here. I want to be like sensitive.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
For the science you're seeing it clears day. And what's
wild is that in these drug labels, for many, many years,
in the adverse effects section, you will see antidepressants have
been documented to increase rates or increase suicidal and homicidal ideation,
even in some of the drug labels. So this isn't
like we're just realizing that these drugs can actually make
(30:45):
people worse.
Speaker 7 (30:45):
It's been in the drug labels the whole time.
Speaker 5 (30:48):
These mass shootings and the calls for gun control and
to take my shotguns away, and all this stuff got
me involved in like what is causing all these shootings?
Because there are a lot of shootings, right, and in
every case you look at the person just full of
psychiatric meds.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
And so I brought this up a couple of.
Speaker 5 (31:04):
Times in public, and whoa you get attacked for even
raising the question like is there connection between necessaries and
mass shootings?
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Why is that crazy?
Speaker 7 (31:13):
Even the question? And people can what is that?
Speaker 6 (31:15):
It's it's it's You would think that people would of
course want to have that question asked and answered, and
if they had, if they had true faith in their products,
they would be like, let's look at it, let's be
transparent about this, let's let's have open access to the data.
Let's do whatever we need to do to show you
all that our products.
Speaker 7 (31:35):
Don't cause violence. But of course it's the opposite.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
That is, in a nutshell, the super crux of the problem.
This extends, of course, not just through the psychiatric drugs
provided to again sixty six million Americans in counting, but
everything else that we're pumping in our arms or down
(32:02):
our mouths or whatever. These products, which is what they
are compared to the word medicine. Perhaps, where's the open
kimono about the safety and efficacy? We are told what
we are supposed to be hearing. But again, as Laura
(32:26):
points out, in the events where something does go awry,
you would think that the people and this is not
limited again to this class of drugs, but the manufacturers
would be guaranteed right. How many times do you hear
how many million times a day from commercials on TV
(32:46):
or you walk in a store or whatever. We guarantee
our product money back, send it back, tell us, give
us your feedback. How does it work for you? Does
it not? We're constantly on a quest to better our
products and better our services to you, the American consumer.
We want to do right by you. We don't want
(33:08):
to cause harm. We want to prosper and enrich everyone
on a number of levels. We don't hear that from
the pharmaceutical companies. It is shut up, don't ask any questions,
and we don't have to tell you anything. Again. You
can go on the FDA website and look at the
(33:29):
product labels. You can look at the studies. The studies
that were provided to the FDA in order to pass
them through. One thing to note A, the companies themselves
pay for the majority of these so called studies that
show the products work just fine or not, and they
(33:50):
get passed through anyway. So that's number one, they pay
for and run their own studies. And two, how many
studies were done for these products? I got thrown out
and we're not provided to the FDA as proof. I
will take my break right now, get back. I want
(34:10):
to read a little bit from her book just a second,
and then get back to sort of the last clip
from Laura speaking about this again. I'm scratching the surface.
It's a vast, vast landscape to deal with. It's a
touchy subject. I really just want to bring this to
(34:34):
everyone's attention. As Trump says lately on his tweets, thank
you for your attention in this matter. It will behoove
us all. It is our little survival as a species.
And how are we going to care for one another?
It behooves us all to ask questions. All right, Mama
Bear's Radio, Kristin Hurley here, I'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Bears Radio.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
We'll be right back. You say it was too steep
(35:51):
to climb?
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Welcome back, to Mama Bear's Radio. My last little segment
here before the top of the hour, stay tuned for
School's Out drivetime show after this with Yours truly an Alexis,
maybe one or two other stragglers, and then after that
at six o'clock tonight Surfsgate City with Henro always a
really great show coming up on AM thirteen forty k
(36:22):
O m y here, Okay, so I am talking. I'm
going to read from Unshrunk by Laura Delano and she says,
so she was right when a little off the rails
at thirteen, Who doesn't She's prescribed two drugs after like
an appointment, one appointment with a psychiatrist told she was bipolar.
So Laura says there were a number of important facts
(36:46):
about depicoat and prozac, so those were the two prescriptions
she was given at thirteen. She said that I didn't
know when Anuja prescribed them to me, things that would
have been impossible for me to have uncovered as you
as I was, and with the internet just budding. This
was nineteen ninety seven and at that point neither drug
(37:07):
had been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration
for psychiatric use and children. Prozac didn't gain US approval
until the early aughts. As of twenty twenty four, depicote
still doesn't have it. Let me repeat that, not approved
for psychiatric use in children. These are the two prescriptions
(37:27):
she's given. In fact, she says, if you look at
the official drug label for depicoat, not the patient pamphlet
you're handed to the pharmacy, but the complete fifty seven
page label on the FDA website. It states that only
one trial was conducted on one hundred and fifty children
to determine the psychiatric efficacy of depicote, and that such
(37:50):
efficacy quote was not established. Anuja was prescribing these drugs
to me off label, meaning for a use or to
a specific population that had not been determined by the
FDA to be safe or effective, and she says it
is legal for medical professionals to prescribe drugs off label
(38:11):
to their patients, and at least in the psychiatric context,
this is not uncommon. Depicote was approved in nineteen ninety
five for the treatment of mania in adults based on
two trials that each lasted three weeks. In one trial,
patients were put into either a placebo or a depicote
(38:31):
group in another a placebo, a depicote, or a lithium group.
Before patients were started on their respective trial drugs, psychiatrists
scored them using subjective rating scales that included measures like
how fast they seemed to be speaking, how distractable they appeared,
and how well groomed they seemed. At the end of
(38:52):
the three weeks, the scores were calculated again and compared
with the previous ones, averaging the two studies. In the
opinions of the assessing researchers, fifty nine percent of the
depicote taking patients showed at least a thirty percent reduction
and symptoms score, compared with about twenty eight percent of
their plusybotaking counterparts. She goes a little bit. She says,
(39:14):
for reference, on the sixty point young Mania rating scale,
that's the thing which was used in the first trial,
your score would vary by eight points if you appeared
quote hostile or quote uncooperative on one day compared with
appearing to have no irritability three weeks later. Similarly, appearing
(39:35):
to have quote pressured speech on one day while appearing
to have quote no increase in the rate or amount
of your speech three weeks later could change your score
by eight points. Together, that sixteen point difference would be
enough to declare you've had a nearly thirty percent reduction
in your symptoms. She says this was the sole basis
upon which depicote was determined to be an effective treatment
(39:58):
for acute mania in ad adults, although the label still
says more than two decades later, that quote the safety
and effectiveness of depicote for long term use in mania
i e. More than three weeks has not been systemic,
systematically evaluated and controlled clinical trials. Laura goes on to
(40:22):
say a close look at the scientific literature underpinning the
FDA's approval of prozac and other selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors
these are the SSRI in idepressants reveals that the trials
were typically of similar design to the two conducted on
depicote in that they mostly lasted only a few weeks
and determined outcomes based on subjective clinician administered rating scales.
(40:49):
She goes a little bit in depth here, I don't
have time for the Hamilton rating scale for depression. Again,
it's like a score basis. Clinician asks his patient to
rank a list of symptoms such as depressed mood sadness, hopelessness,
helpless worthlessness, guilt, insomnia, agitation, and anxiety. On a number scale.
(41:09):
The number of points adds up. If you score at
between x and X, you're diagnosed with mild depression, a
couple other points up, moderate depression, couple other points up
severe depression, et cetera. She says, for reference, a six
point difference can be obtained solely by reporting changes in sleep.
(41:30):
Four points is the difference between having no agitation and
biting your nails. Any significant, sorry, any clinically significant efficacy
that SSRI drugs showed in trials submitted to the FDA
was about the same as that of the inactive placebos
against which they were compared. I don't have time to
(41:52):
keep going. I do want to play this last clip
of hers all of this. Don't take her word for it,
look it up yourself. On the FDA site. You can
look into these studies. You can ask the same questions.
It's stunning to think that someone told you you have
a lifelong disease, lifelong brain disease, and here are the
(42:15):
drugs you need to be on for the rest of
your life. Oh but they were only tested in studies
for three weeks. In what world does that make sense?
In what world is that not someone lying to your
face or making us up? Or is that a really
(42:38):
great market that's like the pinnacle of a marketing campaign
for an industry. You have a deficiency. Oh but we
don't measure that. There's no test, there's no blood test.
There's no measurable, discernible data that shows that you're a
chemical imbalanced. But here are the drugs you need to take.
Oh but efficacy has not been established past three weeks,
(43:04):
never mind long term use. There's no data on long
term use for these. She was on nineteen different medications
off and on, with all of them in various cocktails
at any one time, maybe five at the same time,
for fifteen years. Her withdrawal story is incredible. I'm gonna
play this last little clip before we go. This is
(43:25):
Laura Delano.
Speaker 6 (43:26):
Life had deteriorated to such a degree that I couldn't
take care of myself, I couldn't work, I had no friends,
and I was told, like the message that I received was,
you know, unfortunately or bipolar disorder has progressed to such
a degree that you're now treatment resistant. Come, yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Spend millions of dollars.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
These people take all of their drug, you get worse,
and they're like an unfortunately law or treatment resistant.
Speaker 6 (43:58):
Literally literally, And so you know this, this this phrase
stream and resistance story. It's so crazy, but it's a
brilliant it's a brilliant business model because of course, you know,
if you feel if you feel better after starting a
psych drug, the credit goes to the drug.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Of course these helped you.
Speaker 7 (44:17):
If you don't feel better or if.
Speaker 6 (44:18):
You feel worse, yes, it's never the drug, it's it's you.
And just how how extra defective you are and what
has now happened? And Tucker, you're not gonna believe this,
It's like, I'm so, it's totally bonkers. And what I
did a lot of I woven a lot of research
into my book and I I and I went down
this rabbit hole of looking at the current landscape of
(44:42):
psychiatry and like where is it heading? Because obviously these
this drug based paradigm is failing, so like what's next
for them?
Speaker 7 (44:49):
This new unfolding.
Speaker 6 (44:51):
Chapter of psychiatry is literally exploiting is this treatment resistance concept.
Speaker 7 (44:56):
It's building a new a.
Speaker 6 (44:58):
New chapter of of medical devices, literally inserting electrodes into
the brain that are wired. So it's called deep brain stimulation,
where you if you have treatment resistant depression because your
meds haven't helped you, don't worry, Tucker. Now you just
go in for a simple procedure. We're just going to
open up your chest cavity and sert a heart a
(45:20):
pacemaker like device there, and run some wires up into
your brain and then your doctor can press a remote
control button to send electrical stimulation, which we believe is
going to help target the particular areas of your brain
that are involved.
Speaker 7 (45:35):
This is literal, literally happening.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
Yep. Well what will they think of next? Anyways? To
be continued again, someone's got to say it. This is
something that has been obvious to me personally for a
long time. It's near and dear to my world and
(46:02):
the people I love in it. And I just thought
it was such a compelling book, really incredibly well written,
very easy to read, but she has really quality information.
I just encourage everyone to go out and pick up
a book. Unshrunk. Sorry, where's my brain? I must need
(46:28):
a pill? Unshrunk by Laura Delano. All Right, So This
has been Mama Bear's Radio. Kristin Hurley here, I'll be
back next week. The Apage strong founder Matt Boudreau. Other
than that, everybody keep her claws out and enjoy the
rest of your week.
Speaker 7 (46:45):
Somewhere Roster
Speaker 5 (46:50):
And Ao m y LESLVA beach home of Schoolhouse Radio.
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