August 13, 2025 • 22 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
It's the best way to start your NFL Sunday. Welcome
every back to Sunday Morning Slams.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm your host.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Matt Watson joined alongside Pat and Mason. How are we tonight, boys,
Splendid Steller love to hear, and so tonight we are
gonna be talking about why Joe Burrow will finally win
the m v P or on the flip side, why
Joe Burrow is not going to win the m v P.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
So that'll be our topic for tonight.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
But in case you missed last week's episode, we talked
about the NFC East and all the storylines coming out
of the East, with Michael Parsons at his contract situation
with Cowboys, Terry mclaurene holding out with the Commanders, and
then we discussed whether or not we feel as that
the Eagles will repeat as Division champs. So if you
missed that one, feel free to go back and check
that out. But but tonight we're gonna be talking about
(00:56):
Joe Burrow and the Cincinnati Bengals team that missed the
postseason last year by one game.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Finally, a healthy.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Joe Burrow played a full season with the Bengals, something
he hasn't done in quite a few years.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
But it was not good enough.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Bengals had one of the worst defenses in all football
and because of that, they lost out and were eliminated
in the last week of the season when the Denver
Broncos defeated the Kansas City Chiefs in a game the
Chiefs did not play any starters, so the Bengals missed
out of the postseason and because of that, they are
a team with a lot of question marks heading into
this year. But the only thing that you know is
for certain is that Joe Burrow is one of the
(01:32):
probably top definitely top five, I would say at least
top three quarterbacks in the National Football League. So Burrow
had a great year last year statistically, but the team
didn't have a great season. And so tonight we're gonna
talk about whether or not Burrow could take it to
another level and win the MVP.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So I'm gonna start with Pat tonight.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Pat who has, you know, all of the lovely quarterback
takes that you could ask for out of a football fan.
He has Tanner McKee as his background, so you know
something great is about to happen here.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So Pat, will Joe Burrow win the MVP, yes or no.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I don't even think that Joe Burrow will come in
the top ten of MVP voting this year. Joe Burrow,
Joe Burrow is such a fascinating person. He threw for
almost five thousand yards last year. Obviously they barely missed
the playoffs. But he's just like, he doesn't have the
killer instinct that I want out of my starting quarterback.
You know, I think the you asked this before the show, like,
(02:28):
what's the factor that's keeping Joe Burrow from winning the MVP?
And I think it's Joe Burrow. I think if I
put Tanner McKee on that Bengals offense, he might play
both sides of the ball. Tanner McKee might get on
safety and start playing a little bit of defense. But like,
to be real, I just don't think Joe Burrow is
(02:49):
like anything more than kind of a upper middle of
the pack type of quarterback.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
I think he just will continuously miss the.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Playoffs, be rid with injury, or just kind of you know,
make it to a wild card game, maybe show out
a little bit. But to me, he just doesn't have
that hit factor that inspires the team to continue going
and to push forward that other quarterbacks like like Jalen Hurts,
like Pat Mahomes, even Lamar Jackson, like I think of
those players as such dynamic, such dynamic quarterbacks, and such
(03:22):
good players and such team players that I just don't
think that Joe Burrow has that hit factor to push
him across the line. And I know that's such a
non answer, but you know, when you win two time
comeback Player of the Year doesn't exactly inspire me that
you're gonna win MVP one of these days.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I mean, all, you know, mostly valid points. There's one
or two of those that I.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Might I might not necessarily follow up on, but fair enough, Mason,
I'll throw it over to you. Joe Burrow, you know,
can he win the MVP this season? Will he win
the MVP of the season?
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Yeah, I just wanted to follow up.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
I only heard about like half of what Pat said
because as soon as Pat said he didn't have a
killer instinct. I had a Google list to make sure
this story was true. But did you hear the story
about it? Was one of his youth like sports coaches
was a sociology professor, and he told Joe Burrow's parents
that if he weren't an athlete, he'd probably be a
serial killer because like he's just like laser focus in
(04:21):
non emotion and just like locked in, Like his heart
rate doesn't change when he's in the moment.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
So I think that's a little I think.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
I think Joe Joe Burrow is a baller, but I
will still say I don't think he's gonna win the
MVP because of just everything else around him. Like I
tried to do a little research on who the worst
players to win or the worst teams to have an MVP,
and to me, it just seems like in the NFL
(04:48):
that we have today, it's become such a wins driven award,
Like even if a guy like Joe Burrow last year
was clearly probably the best quarterback in the league, I
think wins matter so much. And I think the other
side of the ball for the Bengals is because is
what's gonna be holding him back Again, I we just
saw the Eagles third stringers torch the starting defense for
(05:10):
the Bengals. Imagine what the Ravens are gonna do because
we saw it last year. Joe Burry is gonna have
to put up forty five plus points a game, for
his team to be competitive, and I just don't like
I think they'll beat up on the teams that are
obviously worse than them, kind of just looking over their
schedule a little bit. I mean they have let's see,
like the Jags, they could beat that team, the Browns.
(05:32):
I think they could take care of the Jets, teams
like that. But I mean even even in past years,
they've won games that they've gone into and you think
this is win a ball And I think the defense
is just gonna let him down to the point where
no matter what he does, it's gonna be tough.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, and you know the Again, those are all valid
reasons as to why he might not win the MVP.
But I also feel as though, and I do believe
that he's gonna win the MVP this year, or else
I wouldn't have sparked conversation. I think a lot of
those factors are what's going to help him win the MVP. Now,
the award itself should be based on the present season.
There should not be any external factors going into it.
(06:12):
It should be what do you see during the regular
season this season? The terms the most valuable players, I
think last year, if Joe Burrow hadn't been on the Bengals,
they might have won three games all season. I think
that's how bad the talent was on Cincinnati Bengals, especially
in the defense. We know that they have Jamar Chase
and t Higgins, two of the best receivers in football.
I think Chase Brown's are very quality running back Mike
(06:32):
Oseeki had a breakout season tight end. So I think
they have very quality players in the offense out of
the ball, and below average players at best on defense. Now,
Trey Hendrickson is one of the best edge rushers in
the game, but he might not play a staff for
the Bengals this year. And I think Hendrickson, you know,
of the holdouts we're seeing across the league, I feel
that he very well would sit out the entire season
(06:53):
and not play another snap for Cincinnati. I do think
that's the level that his you know, frustration is with
you know, with the team at this point. So I
think the defense maybe is marginally better at best, but
I highly doubt the defense has improved from last year
to this season, and I think Joe Burrow is gonna
have to put up those same kind of numbers in
order for the Bengals to be a competitive team. Strength
(07:14):
to schedule their middle of the pack this year, which
I think is an upgrade over where they were a
season prior, and so I think that they will be
playing some lesser opponents. I do think the teams you
know around the league are gonna take a little bit
of a step back, which also helps Joe Burrow. So
last year, Saquon Barkley finished second in MVP voting and
quite a little third, I believe, and he had the
(07:35):
greatest season for a running back of all time.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Chance though it's not gonna happen again.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Lamar Jackson Josh Allen both put up supreme seasons, and
while they're definitely very capable of doing that, you know,
I don't think that's Those are some of the numbers
you're not gonna put in year in and year out,
and I think Joe Burrow has to put up those
numbers for the Bengals to be good. I think the
defense is gonna give up a lot of points, giving
him more opportunities for passing touchdowns and passing yards you know,
and back drives, et cetera. So I think those opportunities
(08:03):
are going to help inflate his numbers just even a
bit more than they were last year, and I think
those numbers are gonna help.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And like I mentioned, with the external factors.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I don't think last season should come into play, but
I do think that the award voters are human and
they're gonna remember that last season. He pushed them to
the very brink to get into the playoffs and they,
you know, it was out of their hands and that's
why they didn't make the postseason late in the year.
You know, if they fixed, if they fixed themselves at
any point, they would have made the playoffs, but they didn't.
(08:31):
So he willed them to at least a playoff opportunity
late in the year.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
They didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I think if they are sitting in a position where
they make the playoffs as like a seventh seed this
year or are right on the cusp again, I do
think that human factor will come into play, and I
do think that Joe Burrow will get the benefit of
the doubt in that regard, and so I think if
he could put up similar numbers, if not better than
what he did last year, I think he can walk
away with the MVP this season.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I think it's just fascinating because like he is, I
hear you and Mason talk about it, Like I think
about the fact that a quarterback who goes eight to
nine across the season is not necessarily in the minds
of the MVP voters as like that's the MVP because
his team only won eight games and your quarterback is
so associated with that winning mentality and wins r QB
(09:21):
stat But like if you are the most generational rusher
of all time, and your team goes eight to nine,
but you put up numbers nobody's ever seen before, like
your odds of winning MVP are so much higher even
though you're on a losing team. It's just it almost
feels like the deck is stack against him. I think
he could throw for like five thousand yards, But if
your team doesn't go above five hundred and you miss
(09:45):
the playoffs, I just don't think you're ever really gonna
win it. I mean, I don't know what the worst
team record for a QBMVP was, but it just feels
like if you don't even broach that five hundred number,
you're just not gonna have any chance of doing it.
But any other position, a wide receiver like catches like
thirty five forty touchdowns of a season and goes for
(10:08):
like twenty five hundred yards. Like yeah, and if they're
on like an eight to nine team, they might have
a chance of winning it, you know, but a qbut
I don't see them ever doing it with record.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
So yeah, go just kind of going back to the
whole like wins matter so much for qbs. I did
look it up, So the worst record that a QB
has won MVP is eleven.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
And five, and it's been done four times.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
The other players that I was talking about were to
kind of just boost Pat's point.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Barry Sanders in ninety seven, the lines were nine and
seven that year, but I think and then there were
two running backs who I think we're ten and six,
Marshall Falk and Adrian Peterson. I think it kind of
just goes to that point, like Pat was saying, you
could be which now in the NFL teams like like
even Saquon last year, like it's just not gonna have
(11:00):
it's not going to not be a quarterback anymore. But
I think when you even have a team that's got
a lesser record such as ten and six and running
back makes such a difference it's easier to see them
as the MVP, but wins are so tied to quarterbacks
that like, are the Bengals gonna be eleven and six
this year? They very well could, but I mean the
(11:23):
defense could really hold that back. And if they get
to ten wins and are a seventh seed, I think
it's borderline. Like I don't know, I don't know what
you think of this year, but do you think if
the Bengals won ten games and we're a seven seed,
do you think Joe Burrow would have beaten out Josh Allen? Like,
let's say next year, the same thing happens, and in
Josh Allen Lamar Jackson have a comparable season and the
(11:45):
Bengals win ten games and Joe Burrow does something similar,
it'll just be close.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I think I think it'd be much closer in that regard,
And also I think depends on I guess the resume
of the season for both at that point, the Bills
and Ravens like.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
Top opponents, Yeah, because I think, yeah, obviously they play
the Ravens and the Bengals and Bills to face off
this year, so that'll definitely factor in as well.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I had the head matchups. It's definitely coming to factor there.
I would think, Actually, that's rough.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
The Bengals played the Ravens, Bills, and Ravens back to
back at the end of November and December.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That is tough. But if they could, if Joe Burrow.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
Wins those three games, that's gonna be big. You could
win it just in those three weeks.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I might not have looked at the schedules as closely
as well. No, I don't ever look at the schedules closely.
But this is the second schedule i'm hearing of of
of like a divisional opponent with a one week separation.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
The Eagles have it.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Dolphins have it, I think too, the Bucks, I think
every team have.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
It's just awful schedule making is what it is.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
They still got like two people in a room and
they're like just drawing on whiteboards like the MLB does it.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I think it would have been a much better job.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I think I handpicked the fantasy schedule for our league
this year, and we got nothing like that. So pick
maybe one one or two teams does have a similar
regardless though, you know, you could just plug.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
It in in AI or something and they can do
it for.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
You that's what they should be doing.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Now, that's just what they should be doing. So okay, well,
obviously it remains to be seen. I think number one,
Joe burn needs to be healthy in order to be
in the VP conversation at the season. The end of
the season, he's been I think that the most sacked
quarterbacks since he joined in the NFL. And I know
the Bengals have upgraded their offensive line significantly for when
he joined the league, but still not a stout unit
by any means. So keeping Burrow healthy will be priority
(13:43):
number one. As we watched the MVP race unfold in
front of us starting in just a couple of weeks,
so September fourth, NFL kicks off Eagles and the Cowboys,
but staying in the AFC North, we're now going to
be talking about the division winner. So obviously we you know,
reference to the Baltimore Ravens they won the division last
your Lamar Jackson, who was a finalist for every p
and had just another phenomenal season. You have the Pittsburgh
(14:07):
Steelers who did go out and trade for DK Metcalf
from the sales Seahawks offseason.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
What I consider to be a big upgrade.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
But then they ship George Pickens to the Dallas Cowboys,
and you went from having what I thought could be
a really good, you know tandem is now you have
DK Metcalf as your number one, and they obviously did
of course, signed Aaron Rodgers to be their quarterback for
the season. So you know, I know what we saw
with the Jets the last couple of years, but you know,
I wouldn't necessarily count out Rogers.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
With the Steelers defense.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And then you have the Cleveland Browns, who have resorted
back to being the Cleveland Browns of old. We do
not know who's gonna play quarterback for them week to week.
Shed Doors Sanders is out here celebrating and walking out
to his music in his first preseason game. Joe Flacco
is happy to collect the paycheck. So you know, the
Browns are back to being brown the Browns, but makes it.
(14:54):
I'll start with you in what seems like might be
a two team race in the AFC North between maybe
three Bengals, Steelers, and Ravens. But who do you have
winning the NFC North this season?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And why?
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah, I see it as just a clear two horse race,
Like I just don't think I just don't think how you.
I just don't see how you can logically think.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
That Aaron Rodgers after what you saw with the Jets,
is just gonna be and I mean, I guess he's
got I mean, the Jets defense was supposed to be
good too, though, so you can even argue with the
Steelers defense.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
I just don't. I just don't see them competing with
the firepower that the Ravens and the Bengals have.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
But I think between those two teams, I just have
to go with the Ravens. I mean, they're tried and true,
and just going back to.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
What we've been rearing here is the Bengals defense I
think is just gonna end up holding them back. I
think they can maybe win ten eleven games with that
defense unless Joe Burrow throws for like fifty five hundred yards,
and even then, like they still might hold them back
that much. And I think the Ravens can easily win
(15:58):
twelve games, and I think that'll be enough for the
division at this point between everybody else, I think they're
probably gonna beat up on the Browns everybody in the division,
and somehow the Steelers always compete within the division, But
we'll see with Aaron Rodgers in there, Yeah, I think
it'll be the Ravens. It might be close, but I
think if they get to twelve wins again, it's it's
(16:19):
their division.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
All right.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Pattle though to you, Yeah, honestly, I'm inclined to agree.
Browns and Steelers I don't even think are in the conversation.
Steelers I just love to bash on, but I just really, truly,
I know everybody rais about their defense, but you gotta
have a good offense to win games too, and I
just don't see them performing this year. But the Ravens,
(16:42):
like you look at their lineup like I have it
up right here, Like you look at obviously Lamar Jackson,
Derrick Henry, but all the way down the board, like
Mark Andrews to be seen if he's going to have
a good season this season. I felt like last season
he fell off a little bit. But you look at
the defense, and I recognize almost all these names, which
is a good thing because I'm a non balloer, So
(17:04):
like look at like Kavin Nooy, Kyle Hamilton, Nate Wiggins, right,
jyr Alexander, Marlin Humphrey, Like there's some great names and
then they have some great names on the offensive line,
Ronnie Staley, Linderbaum, right, guys that I know and recognizes
as veterans on the offensive line. And I think we
obviously just talked about it with Joe Burrow and with
the Bengals defensive struggles.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I just think the Ravens might run away with the division.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I mean, if you play the Ravens or if you
play the Steelers in the Browns, it's four guaranteed wins
right there. And then Lamar Jackson is just so good
that I really think that they're probably going the wrong
way with it. I like Mason's prediction of like twelve wins,
maybe twelve and five, but I could see them going
like thirteen and four, maybe even winning fourteen games, who knows.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
But I'm picking the.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Ravens for sure. Yeah, and I'm not gonna shake the
Apple card here. I'm gonna go with the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I think they're out of all the visions, they might
be the most clear favorite. I mean, I guess Buffalo
in the ANFC East as well, but New England is
catching a lot of publicity with Drake many second season, So.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, I'm gonna go with the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I do see that the Bengals are the second favorite
in terms of betting odds to win the North and
then the Steelers a third, So that does kind of
track with what we're saying here.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
But yeah, I think this is Baltimore's division to lose.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I think, you know, as long as Lamar State is healthy,
there's no reason why the Ravens can't win this division.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So I do think that for.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
For Baltimore, it's just another season of get me to
the postseason. I think, especially with Lamar at this point
in his career, he has two regular season MVPs, he's
one division titles, He's gotten to the dance late in
the season, but he has just not been able to
overcome Josh Allen and Pat Mahomes in the biggest games
of the season. Obviously, you know, the Eagles in Tampa
(18:56):
Bay a few years ago with Brady were the only
teams that have stopped Mahomes since since he's gone in
this reign of terror, since he's become the Chiefs quarterback,
and Josh Allen hasn't been able to take out Mahomes
and and you know, Lamar hasn't been able to take
out either of them. So I think this is gonna
be a big year for Lamar in the sense that
like it kind of is put up or shut up
in a sense. I mean, it's not like the Ravens
(19:17):
are gonna go out and replace him by any means,
But it does get to a point where you need
to have a season where you at least, you know,
maybe make it a Super Bowl appearance.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You don't have to necessarily win the super Bowl, but.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
As he's getting there, just we'll do wonders for his
you know, for his career and his resume. Do you
guys think that the Ravens could potentially make the Super
Bowl or do you think this is just Mahomes and
Allen trying to figure out who's gonna get to go
this year.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I mean, I think they can make it. I think
they would have made it last year if poor Mark
Andrews and dropped that ball.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
I mean, I guess you could say, like like the
Bills had their shot, but don't.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
I don't know how none of those Seeds were able
to beat up on the Chiefs. I just I don't know.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
We made it look so easy the biggest stage.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
I don't know, I don't know what the struggle was,
but I mean they're they're close. I think the the
agenda behind Lamar Jackson's failures in the playoffs are kind
of like last year, you can't really blame that on him,
and I know in years past, especially his rookie year,
like like that's on him. But I think he's he
(20:28):
showed improvement and I don't see why they can't get there.
I feel like every year he's improved.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
I don't know what they're I don't know how many
first round like first game exits they've had, but I
feel like he's steadily approved.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I mean steadily approved just in a sense goes from
a first round elimination to winning at least one or
two rounds. So I know, two years ago they obviously
made the championship game against the Chiefs and lost.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
They lost used to Buffalo.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
Lost, twenty twenty they won one game and then lost
twenty twenty two, they lost. So yeah, he hasn't made
a Oh no, they did when they were in the
conference championship twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
So yeah, Lamar's three and five his record in the postseason,
so he has won one game in each of the
last three postseason.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Those losses, well, I guess his first was his first year,
that twenty eighteen against the Chargers. Yep, can't only blame
them for that. It was his rookie year.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
And then as other losses are Bills, Bengals, Chiefs, Bills,
and then there's the Titans in there too.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
The Titans were kind of nasty that year.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So yeah, I mean that's the thing with the AFC.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
It's just loaded with quarterbacks, so it's just it's difficult
for you to go on a run when you know
you're going to face up against an elite talent each round.
So yeah, it remains to be seen. But we are
all picking the Baltimore Ravens to win the AFC North.
I know last week I picked the Commanders, you guys
(22:02):
as well as Kyle picked the Eagles in the NFC East.
So as we get closer to this season, we will
be continue our division picks and then you know, shortly
for kickoff, we'll definitely reveal our Super Bowl prediction as well.
So yeah, that's all we have for tonight. So I
appreciate everybody for tuning in. Make sure you check out
last week's episode as well. We'll be live again Tuesday
at eight o'clock next week. Topic to be announced soon,
(22:24):
So appreciate everybody for listening and make sure you're you know, like, subscribe,
follows on Twitter, all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
But have a great night.
It's the best way to start your NFL Sunday. Welcome
every back to Sunday Morning Slams.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm your host.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Matt Watson joined alongside Pat and Mason. How are we tonight, boys,
Splendid Steller love to hear, and so tonight we are
gonna be talking about why Joe Burrow will finally win
the m v P or on the flip side, why
Joe Burrow is not going to win the m v P.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
So that'll be our topic for tonight.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
But in case you missed last week's episode, we talked
about the NFC East and all the storylines coming out
of the East, with Michael Parsons at his contract situation
with Cowboys, Terry mclaurene holding out with the Commanders, and
then we discussed whether or not we feel as that
the Eagles will repeat as Division champs. So if you
missed that one, feel free to go back and check
that out. But but tonight we're gonna be talking about
(00:56):
Joe Burrow and the Cincinnati Bengals team that missed the
postseason last year by one game.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Finally, a healthy.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Joe Burrow played a full season with the Bengals, something
he hasn't done in quite a few years.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
But it was not good enough.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Bengals had one of the worst defenses in all football
and because of that, they lost out and were eliminated
in the last week of the season when the Denver
Broncos defeated the Kansas City Chiefs in a game the
Chiefs did not play any starters, so the Bengals missed
out of the postseason and because of that, they are
a team with a lot of question marks heading into
this year. But the only thing that you know is
for certain is that Joe Burrow is one of the
(01:32):
probably top definitely top five, I would say at least
top three quarterbacks in the National Football League. So Burrow
had a great year last year statistically, but the team
didn't have a great season. And so tonight we're gonna
talk about whether or not Burrow could take it to
another level and win the MVP.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So I'm gonna start with Pat tonight.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Pat who has, you know, all of the lovely quarterback
takes that you could ask for out of a football fan.
He has Tanner McKee as his background, so you know
something great is about to happen here.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So Pat, will Joe Burrow win the MVP, yes or no.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I don't even think that Joe Burrow will come in
the top ten of MVP voting this year. Joe Burrow,
Joe Burrow is such a fascinating person. He threw for
almost five thousand yards last year. Obviously they barely missed
the playoffs. But he's just like, he doesn't have the
killer instinct that I want out of my starting quarterback.
You know, I think the you asked this before the show, like,
(02:28):
what's the factor that's keeping Joe Burrow from winning the MVP?
And I think it's Joe Burrow. I think if I
put Tanner McKee on that Bengals offense, he might play
both sides of the ball. Tanner McKee might get on
safety and start playing a little bit of defense. But like,
to be real, I just don't think Joe Burrow is
(02:49):
like anything more than kind of a upper middle of
the pack type of quarterback.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
I think he just will continuously miss the.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Playoffs, be rid with injury, or just kind of you know,
make it to a wild card game, maybe show out
a little bit. But to me, he just doesn't have
that hit factor that inspires the team to continue going
and to push forward that other quarterbacks like like Jalen Hurts,
like Pat Mahomes, even Lamar Jackson, like I think of
those players as such dynamic, such dynamic quarterbacks, and such
(03:22):
good players and such team players that I just don't
think that Joe Burrow has that hit factor to push
him across the line. And I know that's such a
non answer, but you know, when you win two time
comeback Player of the Year doesn't exactly inspire me that
you're gonna win MVP one of these days.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I mean, all, you know, mostly valid points. There's one
or two of those that I.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Might I might not necessarily follow up on, but fair enough, Mason,
I'll throw it over to you. Joe Burrow, you know,
can he win the MVP this season? Will he win
the MVP of the season?
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Yeah, I just wanted to follow up.
Speaker 6 (03:57):
I only heard about like half of what Pat said
because as soon as Pat said he didn't have a
killer instinct. I had a Google list to make sure
this story was true. But did you hear the story
about it? Was one of his youth like sports coaches
was a sociology professor, and he told Joe Burrow's parents
that if he weren't an athlete, he'd probably be a
serial killer because like he's just like laser focus in
(04:21):
non emotion and just like locked in, Like his heart
rate doesn't change when he's in the moment.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
So I think that's a little I think.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
I think Joe Joe Burrow is a baller, but I
will still say I don't think he's gonna win the
MVP because of just everything else around him. Like I
tried to do a little research on who the worst
players to win or the worst teams to have an MVP,
and to me, it just seems like in the NFL
(04:48):
that we have today, it's become such a wins driven award,
Like even if a guy like Joe Burrow last year
was clearly probably the best quarterback in the league, I
think wins matter so much. And I think the other
side of the ball for the Bengals is because is
what's gonna be holding him back Again, I we just
saw the Eagles third stringers torch the starting defense for
(05:10):
the Bengals. Imagine what the Ravens are gonna do because
we saw it last year. Joe Burry is gonna have
to put up forty five plus points a game, for
his team to be competitive, and I just don't like
I think they'll beat up on the teams that are
obviously worse than them, kind of just looking over their
schedule a little bit. I mean they have let's see,
like the Jags, they could beat that team, the Browns.
(05:32):
I think they could take care of the Jets, teams
like that. But I mean even even in past years,
they've won games that they've gone into and you think
this is win a ball And I think the defense
is just gonna let him down to the point where
no matter what he does, it's gonna be tough.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, and you know the Again, those are all valid
reasons as to why he might not win the MVP.
But I also feel as though, and I do believe
that he's gonna win the MVP this year, or else
I wouldn't have sparked conversation. I think a lot of
those factors are what's going to help him win the MVP. Now,
the award itself should be based on the present season.
There should not be any external factors going into it.
(06:12):
It should be what do you see during the regular
season this season? The terms the most valuable players, I
think last year, if Joe Burrow hadn't been on the Bengals,
they might have won three games all season. I think
that's how bad the talent was on Cincinnati Bengals, especially
in the defense. We know that they have Jamar Chase
and t Higgins, two of the best receivers in football.
I think Chase Brown's are very quality running back Mike
(06:32):
Oseeki had a breakout season tight end. So I think
they have very quality players in the offense out of
the ball, and below average players at best on defense. Now,
Trey Hendrickson is one of the best edge rushers in
the game, but he might not play a staff for
the Bengals this year. And I think Hendrickson, you know,
of the holdouts we're seeing across the league, I feel
that he very well would sit out the entire season
(06:53):
and not play another snap for Cincinnati. I do think
that's the level that his you know, frustration is with
you know, with the team at this point. So I
think the defense maybe is marginally better at best, but
I highly doubt the defense has improved from last year
to this season, and I think Joe Burrow is gonna
have to put up those same kind of numbers in
order for the Bengals to be a competitive team. Strength
(07:14):
to schedule their middle of the pack this year, which
I think is an upgrade over where they were a
season prior, and so I think that they will be
playing some lesser opponents. I do think the teams you
know around the league are gonna take a little bit
of a step back, which also helps Joe Burrow. So
last year, Saquon Barkley finished second in MVP voting and
quite a little third, I believe, and he had the
(07:35):
greatest season for a running back of all time.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Chance though it's not gonna happen again.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Lamar Jackson Josh Allen both put up supreme seasons, and
while they're definitely very capable of doing that, you know,
I don't think that's Those are some of the numbers
you're not gonna put in year in and year out,
and I think Joe Burrow has to put up those
numbers for the Bengals to be good. I think the
defense is gonna give up a lot of points, giving
him more opportunities for passing touchdowns and passing yards you know,
and back drives, et cetera. So I think those opportunities
(08:03):
are going to help inflate his numbers just even a
bit more than they were last year, and I think
those numbers are gonna help.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And like I mentioned, with the external factors.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I don't think last season should come into play, but
I do think that the award voters are human and
they're gonna remember that last season. He pushed them to
the very brink to get into the playoffs and they,
you know, it was out of their hands and that's
why they didn't make the postseason late in the year.
You know, if they fixed, if they fixed themselves at
any point, they would have made the playoffs, but they didn't.
(08:31):
So he willed them to at least a playoff opportunity
late in the year.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
They didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I think if they are sitting in a position where
they make the playoffs as like a seventh seed this
year or are right on the cusp again, I do
think that human factor will come into play, and I
do think that Joe Burrow will get the benefit of
the doubt in that regard, and so I think if
he could put up similar numbers, if not better than
what he did last year, I think he can walk
away with the MVP this season.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I think it's just fascinating because like he is, I
hear you and Mason talk about it, Like I think
about the fact that a quarterback who goes eight to
nine across the season is not necessarily in the minds
of the MVP voters as like that's the MVP because
his team only won eight games and your quarterback is
so associated with that winning mentality and wins r QB
(09:21):
stat But like if you are the most generational rusher
of all time, and your team goes eight to nine,
but you put up numbers nobody's ever seen before, like
your odds of winning MVP are so much higher even
though you're on a losing team. It's just it almost
feels like the deck is stack against him. I think
he could throw for like five thousand yards, But if
your team doesn't go above five hundred and you miss
(09:45):
the playoffs, I just don't think you're ever really gonna
win it. I mean, I don't know what the worst
team record for a QBMVP was, but it just feels
like if you don't even broach that five hundred number,
you're just not gonna have any chance of doing it.
But any other position, a wide receiver like catches like
thirty five forty touchdowns of a season and goes for
(10:08):
like twenty five hundred yards. Like yeah, and if they're
on like an eight to nine team, they might have
a chance of winning it, you know, but a qbut
I don't see them ever doing it with record.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
So yeah, go just kind of going back to the
whole like wins matter so much for qbs. I did
look it up, So the worst record that a QB
has won MVP is eleven.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
And five, and it's been done four times.
Speaker 6 (10:31):
The other players that I was talking about were to
kind of just boost Pat's point.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Barry Sanders in ninety seven, the lines were nine and
seven that year, but I think and then there were
two running backs who I think we're ten and six,
Marshall Falk and Adrian Peterson. I think it kind of
just goes to that point, like Pat was saying, you
could be which now in the NFL teams like like
even Saquon last year, like it's just not gonna have
(11:00):
it's not going to not be a quarterback anymore. But
I think when you even have a team that's got
a lesser record such as ten and six and running
back makes such a difference it's easier to see them
as the MVP, but wins are so tied to quarterbacks
that like, are the Bengals gonna be eleven and six
this year? They very well could, but I mean the
(11:23):
defense could really hold that back. And if they get
to ten wins and are a seventh seed, I think
it's borderline. Like I don't know, I don't know what
you think of this year, but do you think if
the Bengals won ten games and we're a seven seed,
do you think Joe Burrow would have beaten out Josh Allen? Like,
let's say next year, the same thing happens, and in
Josh Allen Lamar Jackson have a comparable season and the
(11:45):
Bengals win ten games and Joe Burrow does something similar,
it'll just be close.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I think I think it'd be much closer in that regard,
And also I think depends on I guess the resume
of the season for both at that point, the Bills
and Ravens like.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
Top opponents, Yeah, because I think, yeah, obviously they play
the Ravens and the Bengals and Bills to face off
this year, so that'll definitely factor in as well.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I had the head matchups. It's definitely coming to factor there.
I would think, Actually, that's rough.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
The Bengals played the Ravens, Bills, and Ravens back to
back at the end of November and December.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That is tough. But if they could, if Joe Burrow.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
Wins those three games, that's gonna be big. You could
win it just in those three weeks.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
I might not have looked at the schedules as closely
as well. No, I don't ever look at the schedules closely.
But this is the second schedule i'm hearing of of
of like a divisional opponent with a one week separation.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
The Eagles have it.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Dolphins have it, I think too, the Bucks, I think
every team have.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
It's just awful schedule making is what it is.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
They still got like two people in a room and
they're like just drawing on whiteboards like the MLB does it.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I think it would have been a much better job.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I think I handpicked the fantasy schedule for our league
this year, and we got nothing like that. So pick
maybe one one or two teams does have a similar
regardless though, you know, you could just plug.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
It in in AI or something and they can do
it for.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
You that's what they should be doing.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Now, that's just what they should be doing. So okay, well,
obviously it remains to be seen. I think number one,
Joe burn needs to be healthy in order to be
in the VP conversation at the season. The end of
the season, he's been I think that the most sacked
quarterbacks since he joined in the NFL. And I know
the Bengals have upgraded their offensive line significantly for when
he joined the league, but still not a stout unit
by any means. So keeping Burrow healthy will be priority
(13:43):
number one. As we watched the MVP race unfold in
front of us starting in just a couple of weeks,
so September fourth, NFL kicks off Eagles and the Cowboys,
but staying in the AFC North, we're now going to
be talking about the division winner. So obviously we you know,
reference to the Baltimore Ravens they won the division last
your Lamar Jackson, who was a finalist for every p
and had just another phenomenal season. You have the Pittsburgh
(14:07):
Steelers who did go out and trade for DK Metcalf
from the sales Seahawks offseason.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
What I consider to be a big upgrade.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
But then they ship George Pickens to the Dallas Cowboys,
and you went from having what I thought could be
a really good, you know tandem is now you have
DK Metcalf as your number one, and they obviously did
of course, signed Aaron Rodgers to be their quarterback for
the season. So you know, I know what we saw
with the Jets the last couple of years, but you know,
I wouldn't necessarily count out Rogers.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
With the Steelers defense.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
And then you have the Cleveland Browns, who have resorted
back to being the Cleveland Browns of old. We do
not know who's gonna play quarterback for them week to week.
Shed Doors Sanders is out here celebrating and walking out
to his music in his first preseason game. Joe Flacco
is happy to collect the paycheck. So you know, the
Browns are back to being brown the Browns, but makes it.
(14:54):
I'll start with you in what seems like might be
a two team race in the AFC North between maybe
three Bengals, Steelers, and Ravens. But who do you have
winning the NFC North this season?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And why?
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah, I see it as just a clear two horse race,
Like I just don't think I just don't think how you.
I just don't see how you can logically think.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
That Aaron Rodgers after what you saw with the Jets,
is just gonna be and I mean, I guess he's
got I mean, the Jets defense was supposed to be
good too, though, so you can even argue with the
Steelers defense.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
I just don't. I just don't see them competing with
the firepower that the Ravens and the Bengals have.
Speaker 6 (15:30):
But I think between those two teams, I just have
to go with the Ravens. I mean, they're tried and true,
and just going back to.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
What we've been rearing here is the Bengals defense I
think is just gonna end up holding them back. I
think they can maybe win ten eleven games with that
defense unless Joe Burrow throws for like fifty five hundred yards,
and even then, like they still might hold them back
that much. And I think the Ravens can easily win
(15:58):
twelve games, and I think that'll be enough for the
division at this point between everybody else, I think they're
probably gonna beat up on the Browns everybody in the division,
and somehow the Steelers always compete within the division, But
we'll see with Aaron Rodgers in there, Yeah, I think
it'll be the Ravens. It might be close, but I
think if they get to twelve wins again, it's it's
(16:19):
their division.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
All right.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Pattle though to you, Yeah, honestly, I'm inclined to agree.
Browns and Steelers I don't even think are in the conversation.
Steelers I just love to bash on, but I just really, truly,
I know everybody rais about their defense, but you gotta
have a good offense to win games too, and I
just don't see them performing this year. But the Ravens,
(16:42):
like you look at their lineup like I have it
up right here, Like you look at obviously Lamar Jackson,
Derrick Henry, but all the way down the board, like
Mark Andrews to be seen if he's going to have
a good season this season. I felt like last season
he fell off a little bit. But you look at
the defense, and I recognize almost all these names, which
is a good thing because I'm a non balloer, So
(17:04):
like look at like Kavin Nooy, Kyle Hamilton, Nate Wiggins, right,
jyr Alexander, Marlin Humphrey, Like there's some great names and
then they have some great names on the offensive line,
Ronnie Staley, Linderbaum, right, guys that I know and recognizes
as veterans on the offensive line. And I think we
obviously just talked about it with Joe Burrow and with
the Bengals defensive struggles.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I just think the Ravens might run away with the division.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I mean, if you play the Ravens or if you
play the Steelers in the Browns, it's four guaranteed wins
right there. And then Lamar Jackson is just so good
that I really think that they're probably going the wrong
way with it. I like Mason's prediction of like twelve wins,
maybe twelve and five, but I could see them going
like thirteen and four, maybe even winning fourteen games, who knows.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
But I'm picking the.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Ravens for sure. Yeah, and I'm not gonna shake the
Apple card here. I'm gonna go with the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I think they're out of all the visions, they might
be the most clear favorite. I mean, I guess Buffalo
in the ANFC East as well, but New England is
catching a lot of publicity with Drake many second season, So.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, I'm gonna go with the Ravens.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I do see that the Bengals are the second favorite
in terms of betting odds to win the North and
then the Steelers a third, So that does kind of
track with what we're saying here.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
But yeah, I think this is Baltimore's division to lose.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I think, you know, as long as Lamar State is healthy,
there's no reason why the Ravens can't win this division.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So I do think that for.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
For Baltimore, it's just another season of get me to
the postseason. I think, especially with Lamar at this point
in his career, he has two regular season MVPs, he's
one division titles, He's gotten to the dance late in
the season, but he has just not been able to
overcome Josh Allen and Pat Mahomes in the biggest games
of the season. Obviously, you know, the Eagles in Tampa
(18:56):
Bay a few years ago with Brady were the only
teams that have stopped Mahomes since since he's gone in
this reign of terror, since he's become the Chiefs quarterback,
and Josh Allen hasn't been able to take out Mahomes
and and you know, Lamar hasn't been able to take
out either of them. So I think this is gonna
be a big year for Lamar in the sense that
like it kind of is put up or shut up
in a sense. I mean, it's not like the Ravens
(19:17):
are gonna go out and replace him by any means,
But it does get to a point where you need
to have a season where you at least, you know,
maybe make it a Super Bowl appearance.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You don't have to necessarily win the super Bowl, but.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
As he's getting there, just we'll do wonders for his
you know, for his career and his resume. Do you
guys think that the Ravens could potentially make the Super
Bowl or do you think this is just Mahomes and
Allen trying to figure out who's gonna get to go
this year.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
I mean, I think they can make it. I think
they would have made it last year if poor Mark
Andrews and dropped that ball.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
I mean, I guess you could say, like like the
Bills had their shot, but don't.
Speaker 5 (19:56):
I don't know how none of those Seeds were able
to beat up on the Chiefs. I just I don't know.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
We made it look so easy the biggest stage.
Speaker 6 (20:05):
I don't know, I don't know what the struggle was,
but I mean they're they're close. I think the the
agenda behind Lamar Jackson's failures in the playoffs are kind
of like last year, you can't really blame that on him,
and I know in years past, especially his rookie year,
like like that's on him. But I think he's he
(20:28):
showed improvement and I don't see why they can't get there.
I feel like every year he's improved.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
I don't know what they're I don't know how many
first round like first game exits they've had, but I
feel like he's steadily approved.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I mean steadily approved just in a sense goes from
a first round elimination to winning at least one or
two rounds. So I know, two years ago they obviously
made the championship game against the Chiefs and lost.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
They lost used to Buffalo.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
Lost, twenty twenty they won one game and then lost
twenty twenty two, they lost. So yeah, he hasn't made
a Oh no, they did when they were in the
conference championship twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
So yeah, Lamar's three and five his record in the postseason,
so he has won one game in each of the
last three postseason.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Those losses, well, I guess his first was his first year,
that twenty eighteen against the Chargers. Yep, can't only blame
them for that. It was his rookie year.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
And then as other losses are Bills, Bengals, Chiefs, Bills,
and then there's the Titans in there too.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
The Titans were kind of nasty that year.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
So yeah, I mean that's the thing with the AFC.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
It's just loaded with quarterbacks, so it's just it's difficult
for you to go on a run when you know
you're going to face up against an elite talent each round.
So yeah, it remains to be seen. But we are
all picking the Baltimore Ravens to win the AFC North.
I know last week I picked the Commanders, you guys
(22:02):
as well as Kyle picked the Eagles in the NFC East.
So as we get closer to this season, we will
be continue our division picks and then you know, shortly
for kickoff, we'll definitely reveal our Super Bowl prediction as well.
So yeah, that's all we have for tonight. So I
appreciate everybody for tuning in. Make sure you check out
last week's episode as well. We'll be live again Tuesday
at eight o'clock next week. Topic to be announced soon,
(22:24):
So appreciate everybody for listening and make sure you're you know, like, subscribe,
follows on Twitter, all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
But have a great night.
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