"Prep" by Curtis Sittenfeld

Sometimes in life, a special book comes along and embraces you with characters you relate to, a setting that you enjoy, and a plot that exists. This is unfortunately not that book. This week we read "Prep" by Curtis Sittenfeld and good news, we hated it!

Big thanks to our patron Saroj for making us read this stinker and congratulations to Curtis Sittenfeld for being our first ever three-peat author!

Mean Book Club is four ladies (UCB, BuzzFeed, College Humor, Impractical Jokers) who read, discuss and whine about NYT bestselling books that have questionable literary merit. It's fun. It's cathartic. It's perfect for your commute. New podcast (almost) every Tuesday! 

Here’s the Season 20 reading list:

1. The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen
2. Prep by Curtis Sittenfeld
3. We Were Liars by E. Lockhart
4. The Plot Against America by Philip Roth
5. Who Moved My Cheese by Spencer Jonson
6. Beautiful Ugly byAlice Feeneyy
7. Where is Joe Merchant by Jimmy Buffet
8. Skipping Christmas by John Grishham

Send any future book suggestions to [e-mail]! Follow us on the socials @meanbookclub!

Rate, like, subscribe, and check out our Patreon page at patreon.com/meanbookclub to become a true patron of the mean arts.

CREDITS: Hosted by Sarah Burton, Clara Morris, Johnna Scrabis, & Sabrina B. Jordan. This episode was produced and edited by Sarah Burton and Blake Opper. Special thanks to FSM Team for our theme song, "Parkour Introvert." You can get it here: https://www.free-stock-music.com

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/mean-book-club--3199521/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm not sure that I need to or want to,
or anyone really needs to read about like an unremarkable
high school student's unremarkable life.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
She feels more like less like a person and more
like a feeling of depression.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
I mean, people were definitely actively farting at mind in
our table.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Are you a high school student and you want a
book that gives you no hope about your life or
your future?

Speaker 4 (00:26):
Here you go.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
And I'm sorry, but nobody under the age of twenty
two needs Tom's for pizza.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Well, Sarah was homecoming queen and Sabrina was valedictorian, So
I guess take all these perspectively results.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to me and book Club.
This week we read Prep by Curtis Sittenfeld.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
Oh my god, Curtis is back. Curtis, get back again?

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Is she here for the three pete?

Speaker 4 (00:58):
This is our first three peta author ever.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Wow, congratulations or whatever it means.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
I gotta tell you. I told some coworkers that I
was reading it, and I explained the premise of the podcast,
and they were like, you're just reading a lot of
this person's books and giving them a lot of support.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Look, I feel like I have different feelings about this
than I did in the other books, like very different feelings,
I would say, But it is interesting. There are a
lot of there are other authors we could have done
three books of I still I think it's a compliment anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
I feel like it's actually a personal attack at this
I would be I'd like to hear from Curtis anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
As always, we are mean book club. We read New
York Times bestsellers that you say, you know, should they be.
I'm one of your hosts, Sarah Burton.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
I'm one of your hosts.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Jannas Crabis, I'm one of your hosts, Sabrina b.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Jordan. I felt that it just felt like you were
just mocking me, both of them.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
I was just I was actually trying to be in
sync with you so that our friendship would grow even more.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Like we're just the same We're the same person I was.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Did you learn that was a book? Okay, okay, yeah, okay,
I read that right.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
And we're not joined by Clara yet, but she is
going to join us in a little bit, and she
did do the outline, so in a way, you're going
to hear her voice through us.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yes, that's it. That's a good way to put it.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
And we'll see what she did or did not do.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
To it now.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
When she sent me the outline, I don't know if
this happened to all of you, but Google really wants
me to report her email as spam.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Oh I mean to do that too. I thought that
was odd. I was like, isn't this someone I've emailed
with many a time?

Speaker 4 (02:51):
Wait, that's really weird. Shake will know that we don't.
I don't know for all of us to have it
be marked as spam.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Something's up?

Speaker 3 (03:03):
What she big red banner?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
All right? Yeah? And speaking of which not, I do
already see some things that are missing from this outline,
but we also should mention she's been sick all week.
So but it's all right, it's all right. We got
it where we roll with the punches, and that was
a punch. And I'm gonna tell you guys who recommended
this book because we we we listened to you guys

(03:28):
for this and this one came from our patron, Sarage Good.
I'm gonna butcher it. I'm so sorry, Sarage Gorkanti.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
How about did I with the just initial just?

Speaker 2 (03:47):
I don't know, I felt like the first name was
hard too, so I might as well just go all
in Sarage. Okay, Sarage this and this is what he wrote.
He said, Hey, my name is Sarage, longtime listener, first
time patron, and I have loved hearing you all read
books that I either hate or love, hate to love
or love to hate. You've helped me get through this
last year ish of my PhD in biology.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Humble brag.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
Every time I think.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
About the books that you should read, and boy do
I have a doozy. Please read Prep by Curtis Sittenfeld,
one of your faves, I confirm New York Times bestseller
number eleven and hard care fiction. I better go from
the Midwest going to an elite boarding prep school in
the Northeast with some of the craziest name students you'll
ever come across. I ended up reading this book this
summer before I went to my boarding school, and thought,

(04:35):
is this what life is going to be like in
high school? Yikes? And it was surprisingly I had many similarities.
But let me know what you think, and if you're
down to play a little game, I can send along
some names of people I went to prep school with
and you can decide if there real or not. Can't
wait to listen. We really messed up because we didn't know.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Let's do it for the Patreon. Let's get in touch
to play in our Patreon.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Or we can add it to the end of the episode. Yeah,
we'll see.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
She's like Blake right now, so we don't forget about.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Sarah, she says, can't wait to continue listening in for
the grand return of Sabrina, my optimistic queer icon.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
I got got enough praise this season.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Okay, you start editing that.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
I am sick of the emails and the little comments
on the five star reviews that are like, by the way,
like she's becoming a more optimistic, powerful iconic.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, please, Like I can't. We can't hear her voice,
but we love her more for it. It's like, like,
you know, some of us are recording the podcast. You
would love compliments too.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Wow, Yeah, maybe you'd like to hear at what they said.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
Based on your comments about me.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Look, all right, you know what I you know, I
guess we have to tease with the fabes. I don't
know what to say. So, how did you guys read
this book? How'd you read it?

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Well, I'll be honest, Sarah bought us all audible subscription
out this here.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah and okay, that sounds like I was treating you.
It was with from our patron. We're finally utilizing what
our patrons have been donating.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, just so you all know, we've just let it
build up in an account and didn't really understand how
to spend it.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Now we are investigator, like, wait a second, maybe we
should use this to purchase the books that we're reading
for the podcast.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
No, it has been legitimately such a game changer, the
ease just to click a button and the book is
ready for me to listen to. So yes, I listened
to it kind of at a relaxed pace. It was
really a great experience. I mean, not nothing about the book, but.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
There yeah then yeah, okay, okay, fair, there was no rush.
Yeah I did. I guess I did do audible as well, sabree, so.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
I did too. But I just want everyone to know
what my journey was, which is Sarah did benevolently give
us these audible subscriptions so that we could listen to them,
But I still requested the whole season of books at
the library. I did just in case I could get
them for free in time. And I was number two

(07:31):
on the waiting list for this book, and I was like, okay,
gotta hold out, gotta hold out. And then I kind
of looked at the length of the book and I
was like, I should stop holding out, and I caved,
but I didn't. I don't know. It was it was
a very trying experience because Audible is not cheap. Like
you have the subscription, you pay fifteen dollars a month

(07:53):
and you get one book.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, you're pretty much you'd like to use it for
a book that you have to. I had the same
thing where I was so close send my library line
for it. I was like ken almost almost, and I
swear to God, the next day it was like, oh
now it's available, and you're like, great, Well, you know, fuck.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
Me, my situation did pan out. I bought it, and
I would not have received it in time.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Okay, So well there's that. At least there's that.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
You guys know that I'm blackball from the library right
now because I have a couple overdue books, one of
which I do want to talk about it at the
end of the cast.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Okay, one of your overdue books. All right, sure we'll
put a pin in that. All right, it's time for
Clara classes it up. And I just scrolled down to
see the summer she wrote, and boy, oh.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
Boy, okay, strap in.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Oh strap in? Should I assign parts?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, I guess I'll go every other word. I was
gonna say, I'll take the middle seven words if.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Okay, well we're gonna count and set Okay, I think we.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
Should just go every other word. JOHNA, Sarah Sabrina Okay, sure.

Speaker 4 (09:09):
I am johns Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Got the summary of prep by Curtis Sittenfeld. I actually
added that that's not written, so that doesn't count.

Speaker 5 (09:18):
Now Lee is middle class and go to boarding school
and is obsessed with watching the.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Dollar kids, and.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
We have to hear.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Her inner monologue for hours and hours.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
I feel like and Claire's gonna hate that. I'm just
gonna say one more time for Lee is a middle
class Well, sorry, I already fucked it up. Lee is
middle class. It goes to boarding school and is obsessed
with watching the popular kids, and we have to hear
her inner monologue for hours and hours. I think we
could tell very clearly what she thought about it.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
Uh, huh I was.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
I mean it is accurate in terms of especially the
criticisms of this book. I did think of it. It's like, oh,
it's prep school. It's like prep school, which is usually
like juicy, like we you know, you you, what's that
going to be? Who's what's the sauciness with? What are
these rich kids doing? And it's like, no, what if?

(10:32):
To me it felt like it was like, oh, what
if I wrote about prep school from the perspective of
the wallpaper? Oh yeah, And it was just it felt
just like Jesus Christ, like, yeah, I get you see everything,
but like it's wallpaper. That's self hating too, I guess
self hating wallpaper.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, without a spark of personality. It's like white wallpaper.
It's like, why don't we just paint the wall white?
If we're just gonna put up white wallpaper?

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
The other problem I think is that one of the
best coming of age, uh young adult books ever written,
in my opinion, is about boarding school, and it's a
separate piece.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
If you guys, I'm sure you're gonna.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Throw and hold in call field, but no, no.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
I mean that's a good that's a fine one, but
a separate piece like is among my favorite books to
this day.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
It's so engaging.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
I don't remember what happens in that book. I know,
I ready mean.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Limb, bone, marrow, and it causes Finny to fall out
of the tree because Jean's jealous of Finny.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
I don't I really don't remember.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, I can't believe you don't remember Jean jounced the limb.
It was every like thirteen year old's introduction to the
word jounced.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
No, Calfield held me. I that was more affecting, probably
because he cursed so much. I their prostitutes. It probably
that one stuck with me more. Okay, but uh, anyway, Okay,
So it's yes, you're right, it is. It is a
I mean, you could say it's a trope like it is.
There's expectations set when you're going to write about a

(12:14):
prep school because you have h Yeah, there's so let's
let's before we dive too deep into this because we're
I know we're already chomping at the bit. Let's just
go quick over author in the book.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Again.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
This We've talked about the author a lot, and so
I don't think we need to go too deep into her.
But as a refresher. She was born in nineteen seventy five.
We've done two of her books in the past, Rodham
and Romantic Comedy. Uh, she went to Vassar and Stanford MFAA.
Iowa as anybody who can write, you know, went there, Na.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
It's Johonna's jugs. I got skipped.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
You're right, you're in you know what? Yeah, sure, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
Okay, I'm gonna give you two RECs.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Okay, and both are going to be non alcoholic because, uh,
guess what main character is not fun and she does
not drink in high school. No, don't drink in high school.
So number one drink to pair with this book.

Speaker 4 (13:28):
Water cold glass of water.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
There's nothing like water to match up with the personality
of this main character, I tasteless and boring.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
I guess I would be room temperature water, and I would.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
The other thing I would change is that you're expecting
to sip some sprite. You're expecting something else when you
take the sip, but then when you get is room
temperature water.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
That's wow.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Would yeah, yeah, I will say room temperture water is
the best like temperature for water.

Speaker 4 (13:58):
But so I'm a little confused there.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Ice cold is the best temperature for water?

Speaker 2 (14:05):
I okay, wow, I I yeah, I think there. I
understand the disagreement. I feel like ice cold sounds refreshing,
but I do think room temperature is supposed to be
like the most healthy.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
I actually thought ice cold was the most healthy because
it burns the most calories.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
No, I think that's room temperature.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
No, it's ice cold that burns more calories, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
And is that why you like room temperature because you
think it's like a little knotty, it's not as healthy.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know it's a little indulgent. So
my other recommendation. While Sarah looks up this important fact of.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Now right, she's right, She says, drinking cold water requires
your body to expand a small amount of energy to
warm it to your body's temperature. But the calorie bird
is minimal. Okay, I know, whatever, but still just trying
to know. We're just trying to know.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
I did have it confused, and I are really worlds
apart these days on our opinions.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
Just wow, we ever bridge this gap between us?

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (15:08):
Anyway, my other.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Drink pairing is a uh, non alcoholic if you're if
you're in the market. There's a lot of beers on
the shelves these days that are na and I tried
one recently. It was the Guinness zero point five, okay,
and it's just it's a it's a good one, you know,
if you're at work and you're like.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
I don't understand this at all. I don't understand drink.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
I think occasionally it's nice to mix into the routine,
especially if you're out at a bar and you're like,
I don't really I want to have one, perhaps to
be social, but I'd like to then have something in
my hand.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
I'm telling you, then have a delicious coke.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
I don't understand what we're doing with these fake non
alcoholic beverages. It doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
I love a non alcoholic beer.

Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yeah, why yeah?

Speaker 2 (16:01):
Crazy?

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Actually okay, wait, hear me out. I love a non
alcoholic ipa because I PA was my favorite type of
beer in terms of taste, but it gave me crazy
hangovers and so I had to cut it out of
my life completely. But with non alcoholics, I can have it.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Wow. I just don't like beer enough without the bonus
of feeling the alcohol. Do you know what I'm saying?
Like I don't enjoy the taste of beer enough to
be like I want this without Yeah, that makes sense.
That's how.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
It's kind of like decap coffee. If you don't like
the taste of coffee, there's simply to drink decafs.

Speaker 4 (16:47):
And I do drink decaf coffee.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
This adds up decap coffee not alcoholic.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
Sure, and that's what depars room temperature water.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, it's just like, don't drink alcohol, just have something else.
I don't know, but but that's where we are and.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
Where we are anyway.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
I guess thank you for them, No, no, thank you
for budding in it's it was important and I would
have been upset if we met.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
That I did it for you.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
But anyway, back to Curtis the big The big thing
we want to point out from Clara's notes is that
she went to boarding school. It was and it's called
one more time grotten? What is it? Groton grotten at grotten?
I guess these are quotes from her I had.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
You guys are so poor you don't know how to
pronounce it.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
I don't. I don't know that much about prep schools.
Is one thing I realized we're.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
Not all married to someone that went to.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Board Yeah, yeah, truly true.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
My husband went to the opposite of boarding school.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
Okay, yeah, that was seventeen thousand Worth School in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
I didn't know that. That's funny, Okay. At Grotton, I
had been preoccupied with differences between me and my classmates,
between boys and girls, liberals and conservatives, loyalists to the
feminist cause, or ut repentant bores. As a half Catholic,
half Jewish girl. From how I myself was neither particularly
mischievous nor particularly preppy. I had a few close friends
and no boyfriend likely or to spend Saturday evening in

(18:28):
the library reading the Paris Review then attending a dance. Okay,
So basically, and this is what I understand about her
is Yes, the book is based on a lot of
her experiences, but it's not autobiographical. She was a little
different than Lee because of her She wasn't a wallflower.

(18:52):
She started a feminist group called Group for Female Awareness.
She was a real pill. She's kind of like embarrassed
about the things she did at that age. I know,
but but there is. She also was a columnist for
the student paper. She wrote about the school's flaws she
wanted to fix. But then a friend's mom like sent

(19:14):
it to the Washington Post and they published an excerpt
from it, but they like took out all the like
good parts or like the things with her complimenting the
prep school, and so it was just like was basically
all the bad things. And it was week before she graduated,
which you guys will know is similar. You can see
the inspiration for what happens in the novel.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Wow, that's pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
But yeah, and the other thing I know, like, for example,
the main character is Lee Fiora, and one of her
reasons for naming it Lee was because she's Curtis, and
she was saying she wanted a name that was like
is it a boys and androgynas, but maybe Lean's boy
and is also Lee? She wanted this girl believes she's

(19:59):
very simple, So a simple name.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Okay, yes, well named You've you've nailed it with that, Curtis.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, and we can talk. We'll definitely talk more of
a name. This book came out twelve years after she graduated.
It was her first book. I know, she spent like
five years on it. I listened to an interview I
think with a BBC in her and I know she
said she like submitted it to like fourteen publishers and
wow and took it. But the response she got was

(20:27):
a lot of like, I don't know how we'd market this.
It's it's like a teen. It seems like it's for
more for adults than teens. Like I guess because I
was wondering, like, was she told to, you know, make
it more interesting? And I guess that wasn't the.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Specific Yeah, I mean I could see her getting the
feedback like it's hard to market a book that doesn't
have a plot, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, but it wasn't. The feedback was more just specially
like who's it for?

Speaker 3 (20:53):
And this put this book?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
We're saying that, but it was. It spent thirteen weeks
on the bestseller list.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
What year did it come out?

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Did you say, yes, twenty nineteen. I looked at the.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
No, no, no, that's not right. Really sorry, yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
No, because Meg read it in high school.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Oh okay, boy, and I need you all to know
that Meg was not a nice two thousand and five
two thousand and.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Five, okay, that actually helps a lot. For some reason,
my audio book.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Maybe it was recorded in twenty nineteen, that probably.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Okay, And I was like, I my jaw was on
the floor that this was something that was written in
twenty nineteen, Like over and over again, I was like,
what the.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
It was written in two thousand and five, and but
it's supposed to be set in like the early nineties.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yes, yes, it was some of the like blatant racism.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Right that that felt like, yes, yes, I agree.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
I wanted that he did that pop for you.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
It popped two thousand and five.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
It was still bad, but like it just would have
been shocking to have been written six years ago.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
That's all.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah, But she was pretty young.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
She was like in her like late twenties, so I
don't know that you know. That usually pisses me off,
but apparently spent like five years writing it. So good
for her.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
In my mind, Curtis, we've read her so much was
our age and she's not. So it feels okay to
me that she has so many published books and I
have none.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
As long as the person is older than me, they
can't have as much success.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
But she wasn't older than us when she had their success.
Does that? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (22:40):
But here's the thing in today's day and age, like,
you can't just write a racist book and get published,
you know.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
So you've you allow yourself more time because you're like,
mine's going to be not racist, So I like, can
have a couple more years.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
It won't be racist, it won't be sexist.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah yeah, and you need actually time to fix those things. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Well, well she tried to do that all in her
high school so in real life, so she didn't have
to do it in the book. Okay, so let's let's
dive into this book. It is fully from Lee Fiora.
Like it starts, she's her perspective. It's four years of
her at prep school, starting with her I guess, like
pretty much getting there to graduation. Although it is also

(23:25):
written it's written from the perspective of her, like, is
it ten or fifteen years later in the future.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
That sounds great, it is, but I guess.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
I'm a little I always get that part confused me.
Did that part confuse you throughout or did you like that?
I guess that kind of.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
She would just occasionally throughout the book, I suppose say
something like she'd be in the present telling you about this,
or you'd feel like you were presently with her, at
age fourteen, and then she would add a line like
of course years later, looking back, I realized blah blah blah,
and I guess, I guess I was fine with that,

(24:04):
but she she did it like so little. I guess
that it was a little you'd like it be taken
out for a second.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
It felt jarring to me. And I think also because
I initially was certain it was like too it was
because something major was going to happen between it starting
and then, and I was like, it kept being like, oh, okay,
what's the thing like because she kind of would like
it was like alluding to how things would change or
like stuff to kind of say vague things sometimes and

(24:33):
I was like, oh, so something BIG's gonna happen in
this She's setting the stage for like what life was
like before this big event, and then it's that which
it doesn't come to pass one two. I don't think.
I think, as you know, an older person reflecting back,
she could have been I think even more insightful like
it was. It felt like this person as an adult

(24:57):
was still the same. Like talk about character growth, but
I'm like, yeah, I you know, was their character growth
in those four years? But like was there any character
growth in the ten years or fifteen years from I
couldn't tell. I really fucking couldn't tell.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
You know how.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
I felt like, Sorry, I was gonna say. In the book,
she like in the older days, circles back so much
to her high school crush of this guy named Cross,
and she'd be like, even when I was with other
people later, it never felt as natural as when I
was with Cross, And I was like that they're not

(25:34):
together in the later part. So it is troubling to
me that she's still pining.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
For Yeah, I thought that was so there's some stuff
like that. Yeah, that was so weird that maybe be like,
this is a character that like not only the first
four years doesn't change, cause I just felt like I
kept reading the book being like, Okay, when does it happen?
When does the book start? Kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, I mean I have mixed feelings about it, to
be honest, because I actually think the author I'm not
surprised at all that it was like a personal experience
for her that she was she was a boarding school student, that.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
A lot of the events probably came around the Midwest.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, because I felt like she actually captured, like what
it's like to be sort of dumb and fourteen and
think that you know everything.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
And yeah, you really really don't.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
But at that age you feel like you're like I'm
as smart and I'm as adult as I'll ever be
in my life, Like I'm going to be just this
way when I'm thirty, I'm gonna be this way when
I'm forty.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
And it's like, yeah, there's a definitely lot I liked,
Like I thought felt that way my whole life.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
I thought that I do think like her as a
kid her high school, Like the way she thought about
things I definitely like understood or sometimes. And the dialogue
was very I feel like accurate for the age, Like
I think there was a lot of stuff that I
it was impressive. I also just think, and I hope

(27:00):
we've talked about this before, Curtis, it is found just
like a good writer she is.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, it definitely, yeah, yeah, it flows.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
It's like all of her books are like well written
in some degree, but then there is something about it
that is maddening, which like in Rodom it was like
the constant circling back to Bill Clinton's Penisa.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
That I mean it's so different than that. Issues with
this book. I mean, we have this one.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
It was like always needlessly identifying people by race and
then making the character a stereotype of that race.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, but like I understand drawing that in a little
bit if the book was written in two thousand and
five and it was set in the nineties. But you
have to be then a character that reflects back on
it from your current day and is able to say
like that was racist, not just like leave it as

(28:08):
an anecdote and be like that was that.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
Like the black the.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Only black girl in the book character at all is
this girl named Little Washington and she's there on scholarship
and she gets kicked out for stealing.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
And I actually don't.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Want to even repeat some of the other stuff that
came up about her, like in terms of her description,
because it's just like as offensive as you could imagine, I.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Wonder, and even like she talks about like a Jewish
girl also like not being it with that nose and name.
That's exactly like.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
The students that are really smart but their parents are
really hard on them and they don't speak good and
they try.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
To kill themselves. Yeah, it is. It is like stereotype
after stereotype, but in a way I'm like this, yeah,
and I guess I'm like this is her perspect I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
But the adult to look back and say, like, right,
I can't believe how wrong I was.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Other's crazy. To me. I feel like I'd forgive it
a lot more without that adult part of it, because
I would be like, well, this is just like slice
It's not Slice of Life because it's obviously fucking four years,
but I would I to introduce it and not do
the work of like that reflection. Just it seems bonkers

(29:33):
to me, Like it's bonkers.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Also, like I guess I'm not sure that I need
to or want to or anyone really needs to read
about like an unremarkable high school student's unremarkable life like.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
This Cana was really I think parts of her were
really real.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
But I have to say, like, even as a high
school student, I would have found her deeply unlikable because
of how fake and like spineless and she's spineless and
just like boring she was.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
The character to.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Me didn't make sense from the beginning. I mean, okay,
I think Lee is mostly consistent in her spinelessness, like
it's the concept starts out that she's like she campaigns
to her parents to like go to this public school
that she goes and like finds, I don't. I can't
even I can't imagine doing this at thirteen. So that's

(30:26):
probably her boarding school. Yeah, so the boarding school and
this like finds and applies and does all those things
and then convinces her parents to let her go and goes.
That's not the type of person, like the person who
does all those things doesn't isn't in the rest of
the book, do you know what I mean? Like I
would expect that person to be like have a level
of a level of confidence or even if that is

(30:50):
challenged at the prep school, but is like is going
to be active, is going to make choices that are
not just sitting back. They are a person that does
But the entire time she just she sits in her room,
She doesn't do anything, She wonders about things.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
She doesn't even study her school.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
She's not even good at school.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
And I mean that was kind of sad because I
guess that to me, that was more of like also,
I was like, how she even on scholarship still, like
she's doing that, don't you have to keep like a's
or something to I didn't even understand that, but yeah,
I I it felt she's she's self defeating. She really
does dislikes herself, and so she feels inferior. I guess

(31:34):
once she gets there, and so she just doesn't try,
and that it's hard to read that and read about
someone who just doesn't try. It's infuriating in fact, and
I kept just thinking, like I'm sure all of us
had some degree of anxiety or like whatever overthinking at
that age, Like, but I was like I just was

(31:57):
nothing like her same. So it's so hard for me,
like I would like to meet this person in modern day,
be like what you were like this in high school?
How did you turn out? Like?

Speaker 4 (32:09):
You know?

Speaker 1 (32:10):
What else I think is like you brought this up
and I'm like obsessing over it now, which is that
she she is looking back on this now as an adult,
but she never she never reflects, And so there are
a couple stories where she is like a really really
bad friend to people, like does one or two things
that are truly like so cruel and kind. One is,

(32:32):
for example, she like one of her first friends is
this really wealthy girl, which she decides she'll make her
friend because she realizes con Cheetah's wealthy. So she's like,
so I realize it's okay to be her friend. Can
Cheetah take.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Even though she's a minority.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Yeah, well that I want to throw in a little nuance.
They were kind of friends before that. Her trepidation was
that she was going to be just like categorized as
a poor person and with this other poor person. And
then she decided it was okay she was rich.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Kncheitah was rich.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
I don't feel like she didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, So then she knew she wouldn't be boxed in
as a poor with another poor once she realized ka
Cheetah was rich. But kin Chetah takes her and can
Cheta's other best friends out for a day on the
town in a limo.

Speaker 4 (33:22):
They meet Conchetah's mom. She takes them to dinner.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
She's got a bodyguard.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
And then on the limo ride home, ken Cheetah stays
with her mom. So the two girls are in the
limo together and they're like, should we room together next year?
And they're both like, yeah, let's do it well, and
Kinchetah had separately asked both of them.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
So she had originally asked the other friend, Martha, to
be her roommate, and Martha was like some excuse of
like I don't know, I don't know if I can,
so then she asked Lee and Lee was like, I
don't know because you're poor, have another option but it.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
But it was like they decide on this ride home,
like after Kaschittah does this really nice thing for them
to be roommates, and they even are like we could
get a triple and include Kancheetah and they're like nah,
and it's just left hanging like that, and then we're
supposed to move on and keep learning about Lee and
I really really could have used adult Lee like looking

(34:19):
back with the perspective her her look back is like
Martha became one of my best friends ever, Like I
need you to look back and be like what I
did was like.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Really what I did Kcheta was and she like tells
Kaschetah and it's like remort like Citizan SEMs. Remorse doesn't
even seem to like get why Kacheta's upset. It's just
so weird.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
It is really weird. And also like I didn't hate
this aspect of the book, but it was a little
too convenient sometimes where the story wasn't told completely linearly.
So we get this story of Lee being like, so, yeah,
me and Martha are gonna hang out together, and then
Kachetah is like, you're a bad friend. We're not friends anymore,

(35:03):
and Lee's like, I knew that was the end of
our friendship. And then like ten minutes later, it's like
I had actually taught Kinchetah how to ride a bike
earlier that day, right before I told her I wasn't
going to be her friend anymore. And it was like
this person like she invested so much in you, She
like was vulnerable enough in high school to let you

(35:25):
help her ride a bike for the first time ever,
and then you just like throw her away, and you're like,
I knew that was our last conversation ever, and.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
She she saw something so cold.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
She's like I looked at Kincheetah and realized, like she
was upset about this today, but by tomorrow this was
gonna be meaningless, and it's like, to be honest, this
is the kind of thing that honestly would stick with
you for a very long time, if not forever.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
And it fully did, because at the very end you
see concheetahs, the one who steps up and like and
like tries to argue the opposite point that uh uh
Lee had in the New York Times article. She's like
one of the people that goes to that meeting. It
is like, I disagree and blah blah blah. And it

(36:12):
felt like it was pointed per to me. But anyway,
and oh my god, I guess I should say in
the cover of this book, it says something like it
kind of actually, you know what, I should just look
up what is the cover of this book?

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Also, just while we're on the cover, judge a book
by its cover.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
Oh, yes, okay, it is.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
A good cover. It is a good cover.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Oh you don't get it?

Speaker 4 (36:38):
Oh wow?

Speaker 2 (36:39):
What? No? What different recommend? That belt doesn't speak to you?

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Okay, I'm looking at the cover now for the first time,
and I'll tell you what. I I kind of get it.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Why would it speak to me?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (36:55):
Sod?

Speaker 4 (36:58):
Oh is it?

Speaker 6 (36:59):
What?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Oh? This is not the book cover I'm looking at.

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Okay, there's a on the book cover.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
I see there's a belt and it's a belt that
is clearly it could be pink or lime green. And
there's like a scene in the book where they realized
that Lee realizes that people can tell she's poor because
her bedspread is reversible.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Which I don't even know what that means, Like was
it school issued or is that just what poor people had,
because I'll tell you I had a reversible bedspread in college.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, I guess it is just what poor people had.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
I mean, I didn't have it, so I guess.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, Sarah, did you have a floral bedspread?

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Don't think I had floral?

Speaker 4 (37:38):
No, I don't spread.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah I didn't. It wasn't reversible.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Certainly mine was pink and orange from bed bathroom beyond microfiber.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
I wish I could remember anything about it. Bedspread I've
ever had prior to the one I currently have.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Not an important thing to tell you.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
The thing?

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Why is this? Why is it so hard to find
the back of a book? I'm sorry I didn't. I
didn't expect. I thought I could, like google image, I
guess image search, and somebody just give me the back
of their.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
Well you're searching.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
I'll just say, like, I think again, being mean to
your friends and doing things that are like really really
insanely cruel, is like a great middle school trope.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
I think we probably all did it. We probably all
experienced it.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
So this is it gets back to why I'm torn
about this book, because some of those moments are so real,
but it's also like, how can I root for this character?
She's awful, boring and has no adult perspective that makes
any of this okay.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
And she doesn't change. I guess what I was just
gonna say is I feel like I read some like
small blurb about it that like inferred there was like
until something happens that changes everything, like one of those
and which isn't true, which I think is only her
the fact that in the story she sits down to
the New York Times and like talks a little too

(38:59):
open and lee about the school, and then people are
mad at her because but like it, also it just
didn't like nobody got that mad at her. I don't know,
it wasn't it. And also it's not like she had
any social capital to lose, so it wasn't even I
don't even know.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
Yeh, she had no friends who cares.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Anyway, I don't even know what we what are we
talking about? There's so much in this book. The names
are funny, but I guess that's not necessarily bad. It's
like this is these are prep school names. It's like
rich people giving their.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
Their names are Gates. That's a uh popular girl. Her
name is Gates. The boy that Lee loves. His first
name is.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Cross Cross, Sugarman, sugar Man, the one. There's some girls
that are like, I can't believe this isn't a movie.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
I know it has. I didn't say that it has
been optioned at times, but I haven't been to Aspith.
That was the one I was trying to ASPI.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
What's that reminds me of big little eyes?

Speaker 4 (40:05):
Laura Durn's child's name was like Amma.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Bell Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like almost a name, but
like I did this with it.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
It just yeah, it's almost a name but suggests a
speech impediment, which is a tough road to hoe as
a child. Can I guess I can't say that anymore.
I don't know is that an okay thing to say?
It doesn't feel okay.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
It's uh, it's a farming reference. Okay, alright, you know,
like you hoe yeah, oh row, yeah great, It's not
like a tough hoe to slap great.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Anyway, I feel like Lee needed medication. It was crazy
to me that she couldn't talk to anyone, like not
even I mean, I guess not having like an open
relationship with your parents is must have been part of
the issue. Like she wanted to get away from them
so bad. But like her parents sucked. Oh I was gonna.

(41:06):
I thought they were fine.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
I didn't even understand her dad was a piece of shit,
retreated her. I did not care for him.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Oh, I had no problem. I felt bad for him.
I was like, yeah, you're right, your daughter is shit.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
I mean, look, she sucked, but also teenagers suck. That's
their job. I a thirty nine year old man, it is,
which is so young.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
I was like, thirty nine and fourteen, Wow, you had
kids young. But I mean he I from I could
like understand his perspective of like he didn't want to
send her to prep school. He doesn't understand it. He's
spending like they're saying, her scholarship was three fourths of tuition,
So she's still spending a ton of money to send
her to that school. Like, I'm sure it's a lot

(41:51):
of money to her. And then to be like find
out that you know, like she's so embarrassed of him,
but then like later that she doesn't even like it.
It's like, what the fuck? Why have I I been
like bending over backwards. I probably had to like remortgage
the house. I've been doing shit so that you can
do this, And it seems like you got nothing from

(42:14):
it that you in fact disliked it, Like what would
I would be so infuriated with it, and I guess
that's easy but a teenage girl.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
But even still, it's like when she goes home to
visit and they go to pick up her little brother
from the skating rink, which she does because she's just like, oh,
I want to spend more time with them because I'm here,
and then he like, you know, he calls shotgun in
a really shitty way, which when you say it for
outside the brother. But then the dad is like making

(42:45):
so much fun of her, and he's like, uh, well, Lee,
you can when we get home, You're free to sit
in the car for twenty minutes in the front.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
This just sounds like stuff my family would say. It
was not at all. I'm not saying I wouldn't have.
There's a time at that age where I also might
have been really sad about it or affected by it,
but like, to me, that is so normal like.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
That, But it's also it's like she's away at boarding
school so much of the time, which like is a
real Like it's a reasonable thing to want a better education. Yes,
she's sandered squandering it, but like to not be nice
to her when you see her.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
It's really cruel that the parents get there, they have
a bad interaction. They were only going to be there
for twenty two hours, by the way. I get that
you have other children, but it's the first time they've
ever visited the school and they can't even stay one
full day and then they have a bad interaction and
they leave immediately without saying goodbye.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
They don't even call. That doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
I actually, wow, does this make this happened? And no, no, no, no,
I'm I'm yes, but I guess I'm giving you my
interpretation of it. I actually because found I think the
dad's reaction, like I understood it. I think he should have,
you know, stayed and still tried. But like I could
that happening. I actually thought the mother. I was more

(44:02):
disappointed in the mother who didn't feel the same, not
for not standing up to the father and being like, fine,
you don't go, I'm staying and I'm going like that
to me in that moment, I was shocked that she
just like went along with it.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
I completely agree with that take, and it's like, Okay,
I see where Lee gets it.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
I guess she's like this week spineless character. It's like,
so is the mom.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
The mom is there to visit her daughter and her
husband is like, no, we're gonna leave now, and she's
just like okay, honey, Like that's sorry.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
That she like we're on our We're all okay.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
Like even in the nineties, like that is not like.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
That'sah how they drove all the way there, It's don't
It's great.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
I totally understand though, like those fights you would get in,
especially with your dad when you were a high schooler,
like and you could be high school girls can be
so mean, they can be so cruel and like you're
so embarrassed of your parents.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
That all definitely rang true.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
But you know what didn't ring true like her family
dynamic at all with her family, Like I believe that
Curtis Sittenfeld went to a boarding school, but I'm like
not sure.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
She had a family, because it just felt that it
was just like we're at the dinner table being like
fart you know how family? Yeah, I have at a
dinner table.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
Was she like maybe she grew up in just like
a really normal family and she wanted a little bit of.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
I yeah, I mean people were definitely actively farting at
my dinner table.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
But if you, if you wrote about it, I would
feel the truth behind it.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
I could feel the fakeness behind this.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Yeah, it was vacant there really the subject of stomach distress.
Can I just say, you know a part of the
move or the book, the movie that I was like,
what the fuck is this? There is a scene which,
like we haven't really talked much about the actual plot,

(46:11):
but the reason she gets obsessed with this guy Cross
is because on surprise holiday one day, she goes to
the mall.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
By the way, yeah we didn't have that, Okay, go ahead, and.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
She's getting her ears pierced. It goes awry, maybe she
almost faints and then this like popular kid at school
like say, it was like.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
That was kind of stereotypical in terms of the like,
oh I fainted and now he's here to.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Save me, but then they like okay. They get milkshake together,
and then he's like, oh, I got to meet with
my friends, Like do you want to come hot GUYE
school's never going to do that for this loser, but whatever,
and they do that, and then afterwards they go out
for pizza and they get pepperoni pizza and then they're
all like, oh no, and like one of the teenage
boys asks for toms and I'm sorry, but nobody under

(47:04):
the age up to twenty two needs toms for pizza.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Yeah, and that okay. I wasn't expecting you to go there.
I actually from that moment that story, I was like, Okay,
now she knows by saying yes to things and going
out and seeing people, she's learning that, like she can
have great new experiences and meet people. And so after
this she will start acting differently. And then nope, she doesn't.

(47:33):
She just still doesn't go to the dances. She still
people say you want to come over and hang out?
She goes, no, you know what the most say.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Like classic example the whole book is she she leaves
the school after this embarrassing New York Times story, and
one of her friends is like, you'll be Okay, Lee, Honestly,
I think you're gonna be one of those people who
like really thrives in college. Like her perspective looking back
is like I ended up not thriving in college, sort
of had the same problems I had. Nice, Okay, yeah,

(48:04):
all right, Well, good luck with everything in life, I
guess lead.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Also Okay, Also at the very end, oh goodness, I
gotta try to remember what I think I wrote down.
At the very end, there seems like there's something that
could be like, uh, not a transformation, but like something
actually a realization for her for the audience where where

(48:33):
she's confronting Cross because he's been ghosting her, and he
says something like, you know, you've been a home, you've
been by you, you're by yourself, you're practicing or you're
practicing for stuff, and she's like, what am I practicing for?
And she like in that I guess moment as a
kid doesn't know. But then and I'm not saying that

(48:57):
the future person should have answered it, but to me,
it's like, well, the obvious thing is becoming a writer.
Like she is so observant. That's like the thing you
can say that she's so observant about all these things.
But then we hear like the flashes of like what
everyone's doing, and she just vaguely says like she just

(49:18):
gets a job and then another job, like and that's
it and there's no Like I just thought it was crazy.
I was like, oh, so there's not even like you
eventually figured out that that there was a use to
you for the time, Like it was you had a
revelation at some point.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
It's sort of nice.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
The word I was looking for.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Are you a high school student and you want a
book that gives you no hope about it's so depressed
your life or your future?

Speaker 4 (49:44):
Here you go.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
I would never want a high school student to read
this because I would be so afraid for them to
think this way. Honestly, this book made me start thinking about, like,
you know how people I feel like criticize parents of
the eighties and nineties for like partips patient trophies. Yeah.
I started to be like, no, no, no, no, that
is the answer, because maybe if you don't do participation

(50:08):
trophies and you and you're like you just they you
don't let them have any like feeling of positivity and
self worth, they become this person who just like hate
judges everything, and hates themselves and doesn't try and is
self defeating and that's horrible.

Speaker 4 (50:26):
I agree it is.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
And she's also not funny.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
The worst thing a person could be.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Not no, but it's like, I feel like you can
follow a character who kind of is all those things
if they have something else to hook.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
You in, or they're a sociopaths.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
They're funny, they're a sociopath, they're hot.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
Like something, give me something.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
That's the whole point of least. She was a whole,
big nothing. That's literally what the book leaves you with.
I will say there was one little moment that I
did hear and it actually like moved me even as
an adult, Like I was like, that's a good thing
to remember. And it was a adult perspectively looking back
and saying like she never went to the dances, and

(51:13):
she all the girls one day were like, after the
instead of the dance, they were all going to go
out to dinner, and they were like, we know you
won't come, Lee, because you never come. And she was like,
at that time in my life, I thought that in
order to do something, the people that were going had
to really really really want me to come, and otherwise
I so I would never go to anything. And I

(51:34):
think that's like a good thing probably to keep it
because I feel like I still feel that way, a
little bit of like you want people to.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
Be like you have to come. We like almost beg
you yeah. Yeah, you know they're just afraid.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
They're just doing it because they feel like ye.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
And I think it's like if it's something you want
to do and you were invited, just say yes.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
If you want to say.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Yes, Like if people don't want you there, they won't
want ask you again.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
This is the most Sabrina situation. But I have never
once felt like I was unwanted somewhere. And I mean like,
I'm sure there's a situation where things have gone awry
while I'm there, but I've never been like, oh, I
don't want to go, like nobody really wants me there.

(52:23):
I'm always like no, everybody, I'll make it better and
they all know that.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
I think more about like applying to things, or like
writing or like stuff like that where if I can
self defeat myself and convince myself nobody wants to read
this or nobody will like this. Like that I relate to.
But I also like, yeah, I just know I wasn't
like this, Like I I wasn't neurotic at this eight.

(52:52):
So yeah, yeah, I'm.

Speaker 4 (52:56):
All these perspectives with a grain of fucking salt.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Yeah, but I'm I don't feel like I I honestly
thought about it. I was like, was this ADHD? I
just like didn't care what other people thought. I didn't
care what other people thought. And it wasn't until in
college that I remember being like, oh shit, should I
be caring more what other people think?

Speaker 4 (53:18):
But when I am.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I really wanted Johnae. But I
and I'm like so grateful that I was like that
because this reading this, I'm like, wow, this is awful.
I am so glad I did not go through this
because it doesn't seem like it was for good. There's
not a purpose to it.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
Not for this character.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
It didn't make it. Being like this is self defeating
does not make you come out stronger. It just makes
you defeated.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Yeah. Also, it's like by all accounts, she does like
people want to be her friend. You don't really know
if it's all her or I mean, like it does
sound like she sucks and I probably wouldn't mind.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
But but you don't hear over she doesn't overhear someone
saying something like, it's not like she's making all these
observations and judgments on herself, but we don't. We are,
it's never confirmed to us, So that's actually what anybody thinks.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yeah, well, and like her best friend slash roommate, which,
by the way, like even in her retelling, she often
refers to Martha as her roommate instead of saying my
best friend. But she like she would every now and
then she'd be like, I loved having a roommate, just
one roommate because there was no confusion. It was like

(54:46):
one best friend. And she just like refers to it
that way. It's not like, but this person gets elected
as senior prefect, which is like the big thing in school.
So it's like it seems like Martha's well liked and
she's your best friend. And then also the other senior prefect,
the boy was the one who was nice to you

(55:08):
freshman year. And then they do start sleeping together, but
like at the start of sleeping together, she's like, I
want you to know that you're not gonna tell anyone
about this. I'm not expecting you to. I'm not expecting flowers.
I'm not expecting you to say nice things to me.
And it's like she cuts any emotion off before it
could even blossom. I don't know that it ever would have.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
But he does it. But it's like and then she's
surprised that he's not like sending her flowers and doing
these things that she specifically told him, like not to
do it. It is and I get it. I get
the girl hope that like, you know, oh, he's gonna
still fight for me, I guess wants like a but

(55:52):
but like we know that that's I mean, like I'm
obviously not gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
Squash girl hope. If I could give one piece of advice, Squash,
just ask.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
To think you can be passive. Yeah, And she says
this at some point in the book, like oh, I
thought I didn't realize that wanting someone wasn't enough. Wanting
something was enough to get it. But it's like she
just is constantly wanting without any action and at all.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
And literally acting against herself, you know.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
To be honest, I like, really, more than anything, need
a picture of this character, because if I just saw
one photo of what she looked like, I'd be like
got it, like and you're you're more than.

Speaker 4 (56:32):
You think, or like yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
It's it's interesting because I like the idea. We don't
get a particularly detailed description of her, which is something
I like because I think any reader could put themselves
in those shoes. But it's like you kind of have
to have a personality. Well yes, but like other than that,

(56:56):
like we don't know. I guess she's probably not short,
because she notes that somebody is short.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
She certain notes when anyone else chubby.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
Yeah, she does, certainly, But like I, I can't put
myself in her shoes. I can't like visualize her walking
through the world. And then also her personality is bad,
so I'm not like I'm not even it's not like
I'm connecting her to anything true.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, she feels more like a less like a person
and more like a feeling of depression, like I can't.
It's like something that I'm like, oh, I don't like this,
and I but but like you want to well described,
So like I again with Curtis, I think I like
could stick with it more than I probably would if

(57:44):
this was a story written by a different author, because
the writing was good. But I yeah, the story, there's
not the story is so bad. I guess, oh there's.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
That one like blip. I don't remember what year of
school it was, it was probably junior year. She starts
cutting everybody's hair and interesting, I'm curious if you guys
think like Martha was like, I don't understand why you
do it, and she like says the thing She's like,
is it because you're afraid to get close to people

(58:20):
and this is a way that you can socialize without
ever having to like actually say anything. And that's probably true, right,
Like it's like, this is my access to this world.
And then when Martha calls her out on it, she
just stops doing it, which is like, maybe you would

(58:40):
have made some friends if you kept cutting their hair.
Teachers were like, I should get my hair cut by
I wish.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
I could get my hair cut. I'm touching her, you guys,
do you guys?

Speaker 2 (58:54):
ASMR is what it made me think of that. I
was like, oh, she has the ASMR where it's really
pleasant to cut hair, like or like doing something for somebody,
and not like she's getting it's obviously it's not getting
off like like your orgasmine, but it's I was like
she's getting off on this in some way and she's

(59:14):
gonna realize it. But no or like it, you know,
is this gonna inform her future in any way? Not
that like she has to become someone who cuts hair
like she could, but like no, it just it just
she just stops. The way she just dropped it and
it never came back. Was so wild to me.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that was true for so many things.
It's like her friend that she betrayed that just never
came back. The only friend that she like even talked
about in the later life was her roommate from freshman year.
Oh wait, sorry, I'm all over the place. But freshman

(59:51):
year she had two roommates and one of them was Asian,
and there was like this whole thing where the white
roommate was like, you Asian roommate have smelly food somewhere.
I know it. It's disgusting, and like there's this whole
like tirade about it. And then you find out later

(01:00:13):
that like there was squid in the trash can and whatever,
and it's just like, I don't know, it just felt
so like weird and needless, and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
I we're going to be racist and correct in her
like almost like justified in her racism.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
Right literally, like that's what it was there for.

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
That was a lot then.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
And then that roommate later tries to commit suicide and
is also had sex with women.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Oh my god, sorry, now you're just reminding me that.
Like early on, she finds a pamphlet, Oh yeah, how
to be like you less mean, And I was like, oh, okay,
she's gonna realize that she's like I.

Speaker 6 (01:00:55):
Was, so it was what a weird thing to like,
Oh wow, I really wish I never were reflecting on
the cast right now, and if because she read it
in high school and if she remembered her feelings of
reading it when she was closeted in boarding school, and
also like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Oh, maybe it explains why you're not getting along with
guys or like because she has that moment of like
hanging out with the guys and like maybe you feel
awkward on girls you like, Like I don't know. I
was like, this will be explained some of her weirdness
and no.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Yeah, like I thought that was going to be when
weird when I started. And it's like discovering that she
discovering that she's gay and like figuring out how to
navigate that too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
No, but no, I did feel like that was actually
also very real though, that like pamphlet where it's like, yeah,
you might be gay, and she's like, I think maybe
I'm going to keep this in my drawer. Maybe okay,
and then like you know, two years later she's like, no,
I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
I also really funny hat like a big panic which
was relatable to me, which was like completely unrealistic. It
was like, Okay, I have this thing that I don't
want anyone to discover. In her case, this pamphlet that
she's got. She's like, it's in my drawer and there's
a thief on the loose.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
Oh my god, I don't Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
My god, the thief is gonna hit my room again, which,
by the way, they had already hit her room, Like
they're not going to circle back to the same room.
She's like, but she'll definitely go to that room and
find my pamphlet and then expose themselves.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
But guess what doesn't happen that anyhow?

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
All Right, do you guys want to go to Goodreads
Fusti reviews?

Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
I think I think you know, we've said what we
can say about a book though was about nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Yeah, we gave more than the book to Oh you
know what, I didn't say.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
I feel like I was. I almost don't want to
say it because I'm gonna get mocked, is it? Fu Co?

Speaker 4 (01:02:59):
Yeah? Fuco.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
I know I've said it wrong before. I've been mercilessly
mock so so scared the panopticon his concept of the panopticon,
which is like the you're like in prison and you
can't see when someone's watching you, so you think every
someone's watching. If you think someone's watching all the time,
you start self policing yourself kind of thing exact and

(01:03:22):
that that has that eye concept is very prevalent in
this book because she is just constantly policing herself, like
she's constantly acting in a way or like not doing
things because she's already expecting judgments or or like expecting
how other people look. And I think that is I guess,

(01:03:44):
well applied in like high school. I guess if you're
like a time where you're trying to fit in and
you don't you're afraid to ask what, but you're gonna
try to do act in a way that will make
you cool. I don't know again, I don't fully relate

(01:04:04):
to this kid, but let's let's do this good Reads.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
You also do the one star review in a bridged
version that's from Joe on April fifth.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
You go do it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Yeah, I just feel like Joe was on the cast.
He said. I always say if a writer can evoke
complete hatred and dislike for their protagonists from me, then
they must be a good writer. So in that regard,
Curtis Sittenfeld is an excellent writer. In any case, Prep Sucks.

(01:04:44):
Two reasons why I hated Prep One Nothing Happens.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
Two.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
Lee Fiora is an annoying, winy, dull, self centered protagonist
suffering from extreme anxiety and dislike of herself. The novel
takes place over the course of four years of prep school,
but he doesn't change one bit. And anyway, that's really
what I wanted to read this book.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
I'm like, it has like a three point four four
AS recording for which is I think pretty low for
like a you know, New York Times bestseller. So I
do think this is one of those books that is divisive.
It's like you see it, you read and you're like,
I don't get it, or you I guess love it.
Here's some five star reviews. Misa says, let me first,
a bit prep is far from perfect. The foreshadowing was clunky.

(01:05:32):
Occasionally I was bored and couldn't get through the entire novel.
But then heavy sigh. Sinfield did what I hadn't imagined
anyone could do. She made me relive the most painful
experience of high school with such honesty that it was
hard to believe that she wrote the book as an adult.
I was astonished she was able to remember exactly how
many of these situations felt with such vividness and sincerity.

(01:05:53):
It's true. It makes me wonder did she have a
diary or something. But yeah, okay, sure, so this is
five stars. So they were like, they said, there were
a lot of issues with this, but they still were like, yeah,
five stars. This one is from Lucy. She says, the
realism of this book is incredible. I've never identified with
another character more than the protagonist Lee, which is incredibly

(01:06:14):
unfortunate because I then went on to read blog posts
and reviews about this book and found out that for
most readers, Lee was the most unlike protagonist they had
ever been head.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Oh my god, Lucy, that's really funny.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Also, hi, Clara, No, yeah, we'll keep rolling another hour.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Nose not we're going to I guess then you know
this is a great We're going into hate rates. So Clara,
would you like to give us your five?

Speaker 7 (01:07:02):
I don't know what it's been discussed, but I'm gonna
go zero of Okay, hell yeah. Unbearable book, unbearable person.
She's not even a real person. She's so unbearable. And
the fact that Curtis sitt and Felt thinks she is
a real person makes me hate churtsident Curtis sitten Felt
quite a bit.

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Clara, God, wait this cast.

Speaker 8 (01:07:24):
I'm so sorry to miss.

Speaker 7 (01:07:25):
Did you guys see all that stuff about I'm Curtis
Sittenfeld's high school time?

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Yeah oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:07:31):
Then she started a group and everyone was like fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Yes, yeah yeah yeah yeah. Also, we didn't talk about this,
but just in a quick google, her Curtis Sittenfeld brother
is like some sort of Ohio politician that got like
caught by the FBI, I don't know, doing some illegal ship,
was put in jail and was just pardoned by Trump

(01:07:57):
like two months ago. Oh my god, really weird. So
she does have a brother, by the way, that that
I forgot. I did know that. But all right, anybody else,
all right, let's do more hate rates.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Anybody else, anybody? I have one. My hate rate, it's
one out of five. It's one out of five. It
like I didn't find myself tortured to be listening to it.
I just didn't ever find myself wanting to be listening

(01:08:33):
to it. And I think I've stated where I am
on the racism. If not, I was opposed. And I
think I've stated where I was on the main character Lee.
I was opposed.

Speaker 8 (01:08:49):
Okay, oh good, you guys did the racism it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
Yeah, it's hard to Yeah, we caught it too, if
you can believe it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:59):
I'm gonna go one out of five.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
I feel like leaf Fiora is what's wrong with the world,
And like, if we're just gonna have a world of
leaf fioras, I'd rather just.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
Not have an earth. Like that's not we tried.

Speaker 5 (01:09:14):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
It's like if you're if the only kind of potato
chips are kettle baked potato chips, I'd rather just never
have potato chips.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
A lot of people really like kettle well, a lot
of people really don't but I guess I do a
New York Times bestseller for thirteen weeks. So a lot
of people really like this.

Speaker 4 (01:09:31):
A lot of people like ice cold water.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
It likes the cover, They like the Wow, Claire, where
do you land on ice cold water versus room temperature?

Speaker 8 (01:09:40):
I guess it sort of depends on my temperature. But
in the summer I would prefer ice cold.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
And in the winter room temperature, I guess.

Speaker 4 (01:09:48):
Yeah, between us yet again?

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
Or is it in the winter you'd prefer chilled, just
not ice.

Speaker 8 (01:09:56):
C yet Yeah, in the winter I would prefer chilled,
but not ice cold. I don't think align that much.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
You know, what is there? What is it?

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Is there something about like warm waters fat?

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
You can drink it faster, Yeah, for sure, because it
doesn't take you barely any calories to digest it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
That's why has.

Speaker 7 (01:10:17):
Tried these waters. They're called hint and it's okay, like
a flavored water.

Speaker 8 (01:10:22):
It's like flavored seltzer, but without.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
I have sorry now, just because we were talking to
go back around, because I said made a claim about
room temperature being healthy for you. This was this is
the room temperature fact. It is often considered it to
hydrate you more quickly and effectively than cold water, as
it is more readily readibly, as it is more readily

(01:10:46):
absorbed by the body, so it can be processed and
absorbed faster, leading to quick hydration. Okay, so there, what
Johanna said was correct about the cold water, but there
is a benefit to room temperature water if you're.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
The most important part is John was correct. I think
we can at Blake, you can edit the rest out.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
I'm gonna get this a two point five out of five.
What I jucked suck. I know it's it's because the
writing was so good. I can't I can't deny the
writing was so good.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
And are you trying to intern for Curtis sitting felt?
I just was.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
I just thought, and I think why I keep thinking
about it is like it did affecl like there are
moments in the book that did affect me when it
was like nothing happening, and it was because the writing
was good. It's because like she would did a really
good job of making putting me in Lee's head. And
I will say, and the reason why it only is
two point five is because I did not want to

(01:11:47):
be there, because she's a horrible, horrible person. But I
still think that that I was impressed by it, and
really really up till the end, I was still like,
maybe something will happen, though, will make it all worth it.
Maybe something will happen. And know, the thing never happened.
But I the fact that she was able to, you know,

(01:12:09):
get take me along, that had tricked me into having
that belief that, oh, sure, laser must be a purpose
to this.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
I don't know. I I applauded, so I give it.
I was she tricked me, good job. I also just
think maybe this was better than the other books we
read by curtissan Felt, and I don't remember when I
ranked them, So that's also why.

Speaker 8 (01:12:33):
We had to rank that SNL one pretty low.

Speaker 2 (01:12:37):
Yeah, I remember I hated those on other levels. Yeah,
we already talked about Clinton's penis.

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):
But all right, all right, good, uh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
All right, little fucker, Well John has gone.

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Sorry.

Speaker 7 (01:12:55):
I was gonna say, it's pretty hard for me to
pick because I just got here.

Speaker 8 (01:13:00):
But I mean, JOHNA had to leave because she had
a mid grain, so johnna I vote.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
I mean, look, I was gonna say, Jona, just because
of this little water back and forth. Also, she mocked
me because I accidentally skipped going over. Uh, well, that
was funny. I'm actually not mad at her. It's the
water back and forth for me. So I'm gonna go Jona.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
I'm okay. I was gonna go Jonna, you know, just
because the aura is there. But I actually remembered something,
and I'm gonna vote for Sarah. And here's why. Okay,
it's because Clara. I had a brilliant idea about how
to read your summary, which was to go JOHNA, Sarah,

(01:13:53):
so clar and then we did it and then saying Clara,
each of us said a word. Yeah, we read one word.

Speaker 8 (01:14:03):
I don't, I.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
Don't, okay, exactly exactly, and then remember Clara that your
vote's already locked in. But then, at the end of
doing that, which I think went really well except for
Johnna stepping on my line once, then Sarah said, Clara
is gonna hate that. Let me just read it through,

(01:14:27):
and then she failed on her first attempt and then
got it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
Okay. I don't think I nailed it.

Speaker 8 (01:14:38):
I don't wow. I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
Know me it butchered it for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
And I hope, I hope Blake keeps both in.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
You know what, I don't care if he keeps both.
All right, congratulations Shanna, you were not here. You don't
get to vote. You had a migraine and had to leave.
This book was so painful to Johanna. She got a
migraine and she is therefore a little fucker of the cast.

Speaker 7 (01:15:10):
When I signed on in her head was in her hands.
I assumed it was because.

Speaker 8 (01:15:14):
Of the book.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
Yeah, I'm glad she said she had a migraine because
at one point I was talking and she just started
doing that, and I was like, she really does not
like what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
Like, should I keep going? All right, guys, but.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
You gotta do the prettiest princess.

Speaker 8 (01:15:31):
Oh yeah, I'll vote for Sabrina.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
Oh my god, thank you.

Speaker 8 (01:15:38):
Oh I shouldn't have you just talked about butchering my submarine.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
But yeah, I guess I have to vote for myself too.
I am wearing this pink tank top.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
All right, I'll vote for Clara. It doesn't matter. I
guess Sabrina's predius princess. But I like, all right, you guys,
next app we have we were liars e Lockhart, and
we have a very special guest we will be promoting
on our socials for that, so look out. Very fun.

(01:16:11):
We have some guests this season, isn't that Look at
us getting back into things, trying to produce episodes ahead
of time, etcetera, etcetera. But join our patreon. Become a
patron please. As you can see, we are utilizing your
donations to purchase books to read and then make content
for you, so please do. And yeah, I guess we'll

(01:16:33):
see you next time, right, Holy

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
Crap, bye bye