"We Were Liars" by E. Lockhart w/ David Joseph Craig

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think if your kids are eight and you're like, oh,
they're the liars, and then you call them that for
the rest of their lives, that's a poor parenting move.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
And you know what, guess what happened to liars? And
they burned a house down.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
I missed it when I read the book.

Speaker 4 (00:14):
I missed it in the TV show, and I missed
it this second time I read the book.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
You'll start a fire stand nearby with your yass, can
soak your own cousins.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
The relationship between the liars was inspired by Lockhart's quote
fantasy of having close friends grown.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Oh no, no, it's not good.

Speaker 5 (00:33):
Can I say something positive?

Speaker 3 (00:35):
No?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
No, shut up.

Speaker 6 (00:39):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to Mean book Club. This
week we read We Were Liars by E.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Lockhart.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Ooh mysterious.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Just me, what does the title mean?

Speaker 6 (00:54):
As always, we are your hosts. I'm Sarah Burton, Hey,
I'm Clara Morris.

Speaker 7 (01:00):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hello, I'm Jonas Gravis.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
I am Subrina B.

Speaker 6 (01:03):
Jordan.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Wow.

Speaker 6 (01:04):
Perfect intro to the perfect hosts. And as always being
book club, we read New York Times bestsellers that maybe
shouldn't be you recommend them, et cetera. But we have
a very very special guest. Uh, JOHNA, would you like
to do the honor?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
I would love to do this honor.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Best known for his work as an improviser on the
infamous UCB New York Lloyd Team Never Never, our guest,
is the writer, director, actor and creative force behind Boy Erased,
The Gift and this year south By Southwest hit I
Don't Understand You, starring Nick Kroll and Amanda Seyfried. From

(01:45):
drama to dark comedy, he does it all and he's
here to shake things up.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
David Joseph Chray, you're all liars.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
You're liars, you're Oh my god, I'm flattered.

Speaker 5 (02:06):
I dyed my hair just for you guys.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Oh my god. It is a very nice, uh youthful
white blonde. It's fun. It's summer.

Speaker 5 (02:16):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 8 (02:16):
I I.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
Did it once or twice before that. We're just like
one time things, and now I'm going for it.

Speaker 6 (02:24):
It looks great. I love talking about hair on a podcast.

Speaker 5 (02:27):
On a podcast, can we all just talk about what
we look like right now? How beautiful we are are?

Speaker 7 (02:34):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think we all are the most beautiful.

Speaker 8 (02:42):
We're all complimenting.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I am happy about my hair today and your hair
is cute.

Speaker 6 (02:47):
Okay, So David, we're so excited to have you. I mean,
it's gonna be we're old friends. This is going to
be so fun. And besides, you have you're like a
legit writer like you, You're going to bring that perspective,
you know, because also we were liars. It's also a
big hit TV show.

Speaker 5 (03:06):
Now sure I just found out.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, yeah, has anybody watched me too?

Speaker 6 (03:10):
I guess I guess. Wait wait before I get into that, Yeah,
let me have everyone, what are we doing this yet? No? No,
we had to find out why, why we're reading this book.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Why we John we talk about how we read it.

Speaker 6 (03:23):
Why we reading this book?

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
So Alexis D recommended single D. Yes, Alexis single D recommended.
Hey y'all, sorry to come on so strong. In the
subject line, Well, we didn't have that written down, so I,
in a panic moments before we started, had to go
back to the email. The email subject line was all caps.
The perfect book suggestion, a literal New York Time bestseller,
I swear on my life. So David, we asked for

(03:51):
recommendations constantly, and we last season had a real rough
season because people would recommend things they'd be like, we
think it's a best set, and we'd be like, great,
we won't double check, you know, trust you until we're
literally recording, and we'd record, and then we'd be like,
oh my god, it's not. So people know, they know
they have to say certain buzzwords to get their books

(04:14):
on anymore, and one of them is, I swear on
my life.

Speaker 5 (04:20):
Wasn't actually the author, because that would be that would
be what I would assume, right.

Speaker 6 (04:25):
Yes, Oftentimes it's a New York Times best selling author
and the book isn't, and we got We've been screwed
by that numbers of Times.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
The National bestseller tricks us as.

Speaker 5 (04:34):
Well Caldacata Award winning.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, yes, that'll get us.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Alexis goes on, it would be such an honor to
have a book I recommend it on the cast. I've
been such a huge fan of your podcast from the beginning.
Even though I don't read along, you don't have to.
Nobody has to. That's the joy of it. My friend
recommended this book to me and I both hated it
and could not put it down. The end was literally
the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life,

(05:05):
and I had to take a ten.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Minute walk to blow ute.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
After processing how insane, I felt bad rantic to my
friend about how stupid I thought it was, only to
find out she gave it five stars on Gretorie.

Speaker 6 (05:19):
I hope we have that good Reads forew.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, we should have asked maybe you will validate my hatred.
Most importantly, the book is short, Okay, the rest flattering
to us because about how specific it gets.

Speaker 5 (05:33):
Mine's even shorter now because my dog ate it.

Speaker 6 (05:38):
Literally the dog knows okay, I mean spoiler alert, but
the dog unders knows what happens at the end. Trying
to get rid of that, oh yeah, he.

Speaker 5 (05:45):
Was like, you can't read this.

Speaker 6 (05:46):
Partly by all right, all right, I keep going, Jay,
or you don't.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
You're not going to read that last that's it. It
does end with a link to it being a bestseller.
And I cannot wait to listen to this episode with
a wink face, which I absolutely love. I thought Sabrina
would love it because it really manifests us doing it.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Yeah, hell yeah, the wink face is backwards.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yes, I just got to say, but I'll accept, all right.

Speaker 6 (06:16):
I really real criticism of alexis data.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Thank you for the wreck parenthese then semi colin.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Mm hmm, But I think that's cool. It means Alexis
is different. They're you know, their their own thinker. They
don't need to do a smiley any kind of way.
They do it how they want.

Speaker 6 (06:34):
All right, Well, how'd you guys read this book? Did
you get it from the library? Do you have to
buy it? Do you do audiobook? What'd you do?

Speaker 8 (06:40):
David?

Speaker 5 (06:42):
I amazoned it and then I worried because like ivesos it,
but I was worried I wouldn't get through the end
of the book, and so I had to amazon it again.
But as the other Amazon was coming, I read the
book and I realized I got all the way through

(07:03):
it because there's like there's literally like pages and pages
of appendix on the book, and that's actually what my
dog ate. So I so like fifty pages, Wait, what
is it?

Speaker 4 (07:17):
Yeah, maybe you don't know the answer because they've been
chewed away, but what could they be?

Speaker 3 (07:22):
APPENDI how does this book warrant an appendix?

Speaker 5 (07:25):
There's acknowledgements, then there's bonus content. Bonus so there's a
note from e Lockheart, what Cadence found? Notes and poems
from gat.

Speaker 8 (07:37):
Wanted to read something less an.

Speaker 5 (07:40):
Original hand drawn map of Beechwood Island.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Okay, oh, this reminds me of like papers I've written
where I'm like and now here are photos. I took
up my writing process.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
The original hand drawn family tree, and then a whole
piece about how I wrote we were Liars, which I
would assume would be in her fever dream and then
and then we were liars book club meeting.

Speaker 6 (08:11):
Oh shure.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
I will say the family tree and the map probably
were added because they were so poorly described.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, that's less of an appendix and more of a
must have item.

Speaker 6 (08:29):
I I did just did audiobooks dot com. I listened
to the audiobook, although I don't know if the reader
was like the actress in the show. The voice is
very grating. It's like.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
Drinks to.

Speaker 6 (08:50):
Read.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
Ummy.

Speaker 8 (08:52):
It was not a good audiobook, and I really didn't
like the leader, the reader. She said library, Oh yeah,
that book reader find a different job or learned to
say it simply.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
You have to say the word. That's the king of books.
You have to know how to say it.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
I I had a little journey with this book, as
I always do. Requested from the library was like one
thousandth on the list, so deep.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
I did use a deep list of the library. I
used the audible subscription.

Speaker 5 (09:29):
Very you use libraries. That's a good thing, though, right, that.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Is true, although I suspect it's all people my age
watching the TV show, But I also so I listened
to the book.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
I then want I binge the whole Time.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
Show this weekend so that I can watch it. And
then like, so many more things happened in the TV show,
which like wasn't hard to believe because I felt so
little had happened in the book that I started to
question myself. I was like, maybe I didn't pay attention
to the book at all. So today I listened. I
re listened to three quarters of the book to confirm

(10:10):
that in in fact lacked all the plot.

Speaker 6 (10:12):
I searched for an article that said difference between the
book and.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
It.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
Subsequently read that article.

Speaker 6 (10:20):
I watched two episodes and I have not I didn't
finish it.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
Is it good?

Speaker 6 (10:24):
I think it's bad. It's better than the book, but
I only made two episodes, so I don't know.

Speaker 5 (10:29):
It's there's a gummer in there, isn't there?

Speaker 6 (10:33):
Yes, there's a gummer. Yeah, ye of the street gummers.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Of the street covers.

Speaker 6 (10:42):
But yeah, okay, so there we go. I'm glad David
you can let us know how the how's the texture
of the cover since you have the book on hand.

Speaker 8 (10:50):
That's another visual segment we occasionally insist on. Two.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
It's called describe a book by its cover and take
all the time you want, David.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
It's called judge a book by its cover.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Okay, well, we haven't done it in a while, John,
take your time. Tell us what's the book feel? What
does it say to you?

Speaker 5 (11:10):
Trash?

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Okay, it feels like trash?

Speaker 5 (11:13):
Yeah. Well, also because my dog Ah righted it up. Honestly,
I think he made it into an art project a
little bit, which is quite nice because it adds some
texture and some plot to the book.

Speaker 6 (11:30):
I mean, if you put that in a free, little
free library, I might be intrigued, like, oh, so good
that it was ripped? What's what happened here? What's the book? Story?

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Gobbled right up?

Speaker 6 (11:40):
But all right, guys, what is this? Sorry? I see
a new segment on our outline that says, Johona's just
the facts. What is that?

Speaker 2 (11:49):
That is the summary of the book?

Speaker 6 (11:52):
Okay, okay, sorry.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I was tired of doing my summaries to Sabrina sums
it up in our outline.

Speaker 8 (12:02):
Was ready to kill you.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
For everyone who's listening, it's still Sabrina sums it up
no matter who writes it.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
I did it for years.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Okay, did you do it tonight?

Speaker 5 (12:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (12:18):
Thank you already.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm gonna have sag Aftra. No, I'm gonna have w
g A come after you for taking credit for other
writers work.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Good luck works in it.

Speaker 6 (12:34):
Before we get into this job, I have to ask,
just because I do think this. I mean, we're going
to talk about the spoiler, because the spoiler is the book.
Do you do you touch on it in your summary?

Speaker 2 (12:46):
It's touched a lot.

Speaker 6 (12:48):
Okay, great, I'm just gonna throw out there spoiler alert.
I mean, but honestly, if you're listening to us, you're
not going to read the book, or you already read
it and you want to hear us ran about it.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
So just I don't feel bad if we accidentally waste
four hours of your life because that's how long it
takes to read this book from or something like that.

Speaker 5 (13:06):
I can tell you right now, you are correct.

Speaker 8 (13:14):
I guess we might spoil it for the people who
are gonna watch it on TV. But you'll be okay,
You'll be okay, guys, you'll be all right.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I guess you know you could skip ahead. We usually
put music around this, so skip ahead if you must,
although I wouldn't because it's really pretty special. Sarah recommended
that I do this to the tune of Hillary Duff's
two thousand and three hit Come Clean, and I did
go ahead and write the summary. So is anyone familiar

(13:44):
with come Clean? Familiar enough to this.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
Is audio podcast? Yes?

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Great, So I guess we wanna then sing it?

Speaker 6 (13:57):
You want David to sing it?

Speaker 5 (13:58):
Okay, I'm not singing it.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
He raids his hands.

Speaker 6 (14:03):
So excitedly, so excited. I'm Johnny. You have to sing it.
You have to sing it?

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Or really thought Sabrino would do this.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
I don't know this song song.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, sure way.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Sounds like you know it.

Speaker 6 (14:20):
A little bit, but I don't want to sing it.
I have a horrible singing voice.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Let me wash that's it. Yes, so it seems like
you do know it. Okay. I didn't expect to be
the one to sing this, but I'll do my best.

Speaker 5 (14:33):
Did you listen to the song beforehand. No, oh, fantastic,
this is gonna go on.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
I'm playing it now. Okay, well, let's go back back
to the beginning.

Speaker 6 (14:46):
David Clara notoriously doesn't like music.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Okay, okay, I don't think I'm gonna be able to
sing it.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
She has a pretty high voice, but I think I
can bring.

Speaker 6 (14:57):
It down if you octave yeah for you a few
Why don't you open like.

Speaker 5 (15:02):
A maybe just one octave like that?

Speaker 6 (15:05):
Can your singing deep? Can you bring up a karaoke
backing track?

Speaker 2 (15:12):
This is a disaster for me.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Okay, I'm just gonna I think I'm just gonna speak
it and we'll put We'll have Blake put her audio
under it.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
That's how this is gonna work. That's it's gonna be the.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Song, the karaoke version of the song is gonna plan
under it. We are no one is coming after us
for the copyright. I guarantee employers are not on sharky.

Speaker 5 (15:34):
Her teeth might be that shirt.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Okay, maybe whoa, This.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Isn't about hilar.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Okay, I'm just gonna read it and Blake. Here is
where you put the song underneath. Let's go back back
to the beginning back to when the money, the sun,
the rich teens all alive.

Speaker 8 (15:56):
Yes, let's go back.

Speaker 9 (16:02):
Back to the beaconing back to when money, sun, rich
teens all the line.

Speaker 10 (16:15):
You're perfect.

Speaker 11 (16:18):
Didn't feel so perfect.

Speaker 7 (16:23):
Complaining baut being rich was no life.

Speaker 10 (16:30):
Uh wan, Let the rain fall down and wake me
for my spect of Mariam.

Speaker 11 (16:39):
He'd already was shot mycenna already.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Because I wanted down on.

Speaker 11 (16:45):
Their blackened be too skinny. Let the rain fall down.

Speaker 8 (16:50):
I'm coming clean.

Speaker 7 (16:54):
And of the book.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Uh beIN.

Speaker 10 (17:06):
Revealing the big Twitter is.

Speaker 11 (17:10):
Trying to find a pigment of truth beneath my blanche.

Speaker 10 (17:15):
I died black whoa because my name is Cadence and
I almost died summer fifteen, and no one will tell
me when happened.

Speaker 11 (17:29):
Fun It's made me insane, thief.

Speaker 6 (17:35):
The world.

Speaker 11 (17:39):
Let the rain fall down and wake my dreams. Let
it wall show my snity because.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
I want to feel the thunder.

Speaker 11 (17:49):
I wanna scream. Let the rain fall down. I'm coming clean.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
The ending.

Speaker 9 (18:03):
Ash stock ashlash back.

Speaker 5 (18:11):
Ash ash.

Speaker 11 (18:16):
Ash ash like the ash falls down, ash fall.

Speaker 7 (18:27):
Let the ash fall down and wake my dreams. Let
it burn away my sennity because my friends sat in
the fire along.

Speaker 9 (18:38):
I screamed, even the dogs, let the fire burn down,
and comic clean, comic clean, let it man by the ladder,
Boswell friend, let the match scream, Let the fire, let

(18:59):
run down.

Speaker 11 (19:10):
Let's go back. That's the beginning.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Okay, Wow, I feel like we really should have saying that.

Speaker 5 (19:26):
I think I'm actually looking forward to the actual studio
version of that one.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
I have a feeling like it's really gonna make it work.

Speaker 6 (19:37):
And he didn't autotune you, because I think that's the
only way that we can save that is if he
can auto tune.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
I think he will. I think it'll He'll make it
into a song.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
I think it's gonna be beautiful when Blake's done, Like,
please auto tune her, just.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
Or Blake call me, have me do a re record
when I'm prepared for it.

Speaker 6 (19:56):
I like that too.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
All right, Well, I don't know how I feel about
giving away the twist already right now?

Speaker 7 (20:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (20:06):
What is there to build up too?

Speaker 6 (20:08):
There's nothing something else, There's nothing else.

Speaker 5 (20:11):
It's literally what this entire book is.

Speaker 6 (20:16):
Look, we just read the book we read last time.
David was prep by Curtis Sittenfeld, which is kind of
like an opposite of this book. They're both like about
high schoolers, and that book's like you're just like there
has to be a twist or something that happens at
the end, and there is nothing. But this is like
the opposite because it's like all twist. Unfortunately, this twist

(20:41):
like really like, come on, Okay, did you see it coming?

Speaker 3 (20:45):
I have to say I probably wasn't locked in enough
to be seeing something I.

Speaker 6 (20:52):
Did not, but I have reasons why. And I hope
somebody else is on my page with coming.

Speaker 8 (21:00):
Because she says she hit her head on a rock.
That's what I thought happened.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
She was like, I drowned at the beach. Okay, all right,
I'm going off context. We'll get it.

Speaker 6 (21:08):
We'll get into this.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
We got to get through the burning a house down,
drowning in the right.

Speaker 8 (21:13):
She is a little liar, isn't she?

Speaker 6 (21:16):
Yeah, a little little bit? All right, johnas Jugs. What's
what is our pairing? What is the recommended pairing with
this book?

Speaker 1 (21:24):
So for this book, I recommend Hampton Water Rose, which
is a wine that drew my eye because it has
a glass cork. Okay, so I saw it at the
store and I said, that right there that I said,
what rosees you recommending? The wine man said some and

(21:45):
I said no, that was and he was like, oh,
that one's good too, and I took it. It's beautiful.
The bottle is beautiful, obviously. The Hampton's a classic rich
paradise mecca for for wealth.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
So I think it pairs well with this book.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Also, fun fact it's made by John bon Jovi and
his son, and I think that is fun Jovi. Wow,
it's it's Jesse and John bon Jovi as dedicated father
and son. Through our partnership with renowned winemaker Gerard Bartrand,
I imagine Gerard is pulling a lot of the wine weight.

(22:26):
I think he's probably doing a lot of the work
on the wine end.

Speaker 6 (22:28):
I bet John Bond he probably had the glass idea right.

Speaker 8 (22:33):
John bon I would think so.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
He seems like a classy guy.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Good price too, it's.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
A great price.

Speaker 8 (22:40):
I like the Hampton Water as a brand name.

Speaker 6 (22:47):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
It's funny.

Speaker 6 (22:48):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
It feels decadent.

Speaker 8 (22:51):
I guess it.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Exudes.

Speaker 6 (22:54):
Can't so like liquid death for you.

Speaker 8 (22:57):
At first I was like, Oh they can't. They can't
tamp water there, huh huh, Richie. That was my first reaction.
Then it's like, oh, it's supposed to be a little joke.
Hampton water is wine. It's a little joke. Yeah, Now
I'm pissed. I'm pissed.

Speaker 4 (23:11):
What do you think came out first? Ranch water or
Hampton Water? Either way, I love ripping it off.

Speaker 8 (23:17):
I don't know what Ranch water is.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
It's hard selter targeted to straight men.

Speaker 6 (23:26):
I know it well.

Speaker 5 (23:27):
I know it really well.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Brings up ranch water, silence falls.

Speaker 6 (23:33):
Over the room.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
I know, I know ranch dipping sauce.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that Ranch water was.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
I thought it was a cocktail you can get like
in Texas. It's like a tequila based cocktail.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, it's also a brand.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Okay, it's also are I.

Speaker 8 (23:54):
Thought it was like the runoff water if Youlix sprail
horse down, shut up.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
Yeah, that's probably where it came from, right.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Some tough associations. I'm gonna lick it.

Speaker 5 (24:08):
Let's put.

Speaker 6 (24:28):
All right, so this johnna give us some background on
the book. Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Alexis was correct.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
It debuted as number six in the New York Times
Bestseller among the young adult category, where I guess anyone
can just write a book and it can be a
best seller. Based on this one, Goodreads determined it was
the most searched standalone title of twenty fourteen. It was
somehow marketed as a psychological thriller. Yeah, that's a psychological thriller.

(25:02):
We read there, folks, to promote we were liars without
giving too much of the plot away.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
A blog on Tumblr was created that focused on the
aesthetics of the Sinclair's Island with quotes. The promotional material
urge readers to quote just lie if they were asked
about the ending.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
I guess the lie was like it was good. I
enjoyed it, Thanks Clara.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
And then yes, this series was greenlit by Amazon and
it premiered June eighteenth, twenty twenty five, with a full
eight episodes. So this is all just so upsetting to me.
Every detail more upsetting.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
And they're like fifty three minutes long, so okay, the
series is longer than the audience.

Speaker 6 (25:57):
It's crazy, there's I can't. I am surprised that they
didn't like look at this book and say it's a
movie and said they were like, it's a series. I
guess because they maybe they looked at and were like
we can there's nothing in here.

Speaker 5 (26:10):
We can write whenever we want. No, Honestly, that's why
I'm they added, that's why I'm curious about the series
because I'm like, oh, like, if you made this a movie,
it would be a short film. R Like with a series,
you actually could like create something that feels more like
like I feel like this. I haven't watched the series,
but I feel like it's like in the whole like

(26:32):
Nine Perfect Strangers kind of zeitgeist world, the kind of
thing where it's like it's like it's like you focus
on one thing for a huge amount of time and
you allow it to just like break for I bet
the series is better.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, I mean, well, and here here's what I'll say
is actually I feel that there's so little in the
book that that's why they had to make up full
plot points and like there'd be a whole episode.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
And I was watching it with my wife and my
friend who is visiting from out of town. I was like,
part of what we're doing this weekend is watching this.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
But they were like, don't tell us what happens, and
I was like, well, I couldn't possibly because nothing happened
in the book.

Speaker 5 (27:25):
Yes, very true. I agree.

Speaker 6 (27:29):
I just like, even watching the first two episodes, it
was like, oh, each of the the mom characters, the mummies,
they have like a background and there's something going on,
like oh, she's cheating, and like ooh, you know, there's
there's there's something. There's stakes for every single character, which
is definitely more interesting, even like Johnny, who we haven't

(27:51):
talked about but is one of the one of the liars.

Speaker 5 (27:55):
He has why are they liars? Exactly?

Speaker 3 (28:00):
I guess I missed it when I read the book.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
I missed it in the TV show, and I missed
it the second time I read the book. Meg, that's
my wife, said that there were this is the TV show.
So I don't even know if it was in the book.
It was like something when they were like eight years old,
they stole candy.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
I that's it, I think itself.

Speaker 8 (28:21):
I don't think that was in the book.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
I'll tell you what.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
I don't think the book I sure didn't hear.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
I think if your kids are eight and you're like, oh,
they're the liars and then you call them that for
the rest of their lives, that's a poor parent. Just like, yeah, sure,
these the little ones, we call them the littles and
the big ones. We call them the liars. And you
know what, guess what happened to liars?

Speaker 2 (28:46):
They became criminals at the end of the book, and
they burned a house down, so that was manifested by
the parents.

Speaker 5 (28:53):
Also, can I just say, who are the real liars?
Not telling her the truth for that entire year that
she's back a liar.

Speaker 8 (29:01):
As recommendation was to not tell her what happened because it.

Speaker 6 (29:03):
Would johna wait before because I know we're about we're
trying to dive in. Do you want to give us
any author info or yes?

Speaker 2 (29:15):
E uh, what's Lockhart is really Emily Jenkins.

Speaker 5 (29:23):
That's a different name.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
It's a different name, and when she writes a young
adult novels, she uses the pen name E Lockhart, which
was her grandmother's maiden name something.

Speaker 8 (29:37):
But she has a point. I'm just saying, Emily Jenkins
is a kind of super boring.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Name, comfortable for a child.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Emily Jenkins, I feel safe, great, e Lockhart, I feel
dangerous sex drugs.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
One does something crazy her Emily Jenkins. It seems like
her one of her parents' last name is just Jenkin.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
So she even added, oh so she's a liar.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
She says that she likes beachy gothics with plot twists, feminism,
and occasional comedy in her Instagram, which is like yes,
I'm so yes, I'm there. All that stuff sounds great.
It is not great here. Unfortunately, it does have a
beach in at the end. One of the things that

(30:37):
was like written up a very mysterious figure by the way,
like she's one of those people that's like, I'm only
an author, that's my only online presence. You're not gonna
know anything about me personally. One of the things that
was highlighted was that she wrote we were liars with
quote knowledge of the ending, which is just like wow,
how revolutionary, Like that's really cool.

Speaker 6 (30:56):
Okay, I wrote it to be fair. We have read
other authors that are like, I just made it up
as I went, if you can believe it. No outline.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
The novel was written in five acts, could have.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Pieces of it were rearranged, particularly the middle three, which
is like, after you read.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
It, it makes so much sense that it's it is
just like a collage of words.

Speaker 6 (31:30):
And then.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
The relationship between the liars was inspired by Lockhart's quote
fantasy of having close friends grown.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
No, that's really sad.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
It is, and it doesn't lead in the book.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
It reads in the book, I would say, it's not
really believable.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
I wish you hadn't said that, because now I'm gonna
she has money.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
That's true, and I would trade money for all.

Speaker 6 (32:02):
That's why she had the best seller, she's got her series.
That's why we're allowed to mock it. Okay, I guy,
we're still.

Speaker 8 (32:10):
Friends going.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Also, I just want to clarify, I said that in
a backwards way. I meant I would trade you for money,
not that I wanted you and.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
I understood get it was crystal clear.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
I think I think the tone was right, but the
words I actually said were wrong.

Speaker 6 (32:29):
Great, that's.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
That's it for the author in the book.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
I will just add, I think before we kind of
get into things, a little more context is this book
is about a stupid, wealthy family who owns a private
island near Martha's vineyard called Beechwood Island. They're named the
Saint Clair's and they spend their summers there, and the
island is organized as a de facto private state with
four independent mansions, wind Mere at the north, Cuddle down

(32:58):
the northeast, Redgate at the east and Claremont at the
west with private tennis fields, beaches and docks. So just
so you know, that's sort of the setting for this
Sinclair family is like them on their island in their mansions.

Speaker 5 (33:13):
Honestly my white heaven. Like I'm like, we're.

Speaker 6 (33:19):
Also I feel like it's important to point out that.
But like the book is like a lot of purple
prose and like odd sentence structure, which like like a
like Ee Cummings type shit where it's just like cutting
stuff off midway and it's like choppy and really dramatic imagery.

(33:41):
I guess that's supposed to be like the Teenager, but
also it really threw me off. And this is where
I'm curious of this threw anybody else off, because early
in the in the book, you find out that the
main character, Cadence Katie her parents forest and she's talking

(34:01):
about like but before this, there's a lot of like
I don't know what happened, I don't remember, and we're
cutting back and forth between like these few different summers
and then this I'm just gonna read what it says.
This is when her dad's leaving. Then he pulled out
a yeah. Then we pulled out a handgun and shot
me in the chest. I was standing on the lawn
and I fell. The bullet hole opened wide, and my

(34:24):
heart rolled out of my rib cage and down into
the flower bed. Blood gush rhythmically from my open room.
Then from my eyes, my ears, my heart Sarah.

Speaker 8 (34:33):
I'm holding back laughter because she's sick.

Speaker 5 (34:37):
No, that never happened again. That never happened again.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
It was it was a description of how she met,
but it was so unclear, and I was like, oh, so.

Speaker 6 (34:49):
That's the thing that happened that like caused she got shot,
and that's where the memory and so like it's going
through and it continues. But I don't think that was
the purpose of it. I think it was supposed to
be like dramatic prose. But like I'm just kept going
reading the book and being like at first, I was like, oh, well,
she's like what happened. I'm like, well, we know what happened.

(35:09):
As the reader, she already told us she got shot
by her dad. I'm wondering how that's gonna all like
hook back up to this.

Speaker 8 (35:16):
Oh I got you for a second, I figured it out.

Speaker 6 (35:20):
Oh before I thought that that was something that really happened.

Speaker 8 (35:24):
Guys, I thought that for a second.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
It So what's what's crazy about it is though that
like as an author, that type of writing never happens
again in the book. It's not like she doesn't just
like narrate something that didn't happen, unless she's saying, like
the king have the princesses and you know that.

Speaker 5 (35:46):
But that was that was That was when I realized
that that earlier part was prose. Was when she started
doing like the like the three daughters stuff and like
all that other stuff. But but that was all italicized.
But the part about her getting shot was not italicized,

(36:07):
which should have been because if it was italicized, I
would have known it was pros and connected to the
other stuff.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, it was so weird, and I she does bring
it up multiple other times in the book. I have
to I hate the author the like blood spilling and
my heart, but I feel like that aren't real.

Speaker 8 (36:28):
But it's always her headaches.

Speaker 6 (36:31):
Yeah, it's about her headache.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
She turned her head like her skull cracking open, and
that is true. Like that's a way I have like
heard people describe pain like.

Speaker 6 (36:40):
It makes sense.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
It's like it's like this and not it was.

Speaker 6 (36:44):
It wasn't the way it was like it was anyway,
So for for I don't I don't know how, but
there was a good portion of the book that I
just thought that that was I didn't think. I thought
that that's what caused the head injury, that she was shot,
and that she was trying to figure out. And then
I was like had to eventually, I guess, like David

(37:07):
was saying, realizing what the pros, I was like, Oh, wait,
was that that wasn't something that actually happened. Oh she's
not talking about it again, but like the whole premise
is like don't talk about it, don't talk about it,
nobody tell her about it. So like it made sense
to me that it wasn't brought up again. I don't know,
it was weird.

Speaker 5 (37:26):
I think the thing was is we never met him.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yeah that's true, so why would That's the other thing?

Speaker 6 (37:32):
Like when I then I think about how she meant it,
it's like it was that dramatic to her, but like
she never talks about her dad, or like you never
see her interactive with anybody else about like how much
she misses her dad, or like the only talking about
her dad is when she goes on the trip with him.
She does, and she's like, which is, which is a
crazy trip because who goes to like Italy and all

(37:54):
these places and it's just like rolling their eyes at
everything and just to stay in the hotel, Like what
the fuck?

Speaker 3 (38:03):
I mean, I could see any teenager feeling that way.
Come on by the teenagers, you like interested, you know
that this stuff is important, Like even if she liked it,
but like she's like crazy rich and she's got so
much accent culture. She wants to be with her friends.

Speaker 6 (38:27):
It doesn't make sense. It doesn't not how she doesn't
make sense.

Speaker 5 (38:32):
This is the whitest book I've ever read.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yes, it really is.

Speaker 8 (38:38):
But there's an Indian gun.

Speaker 6 (38:40):
It really really is.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
What gat Patel, I don't forget two Hispanic workers?

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Would they make sure to mention?

Speaker 6 (38:51):
Yeah, But she does not know. She also like, is
like I don't know their names, which is I thought
funny because I did notice that in the series they
changed it that she thought thinks she knows they're names,
But she's wrong about the names as opposed.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
To just being like in the books, she's like me,
it's to me to know that I would ever want,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 6 (39:09):
It's just it was like, yeah, these people are just
it's hard because nobody's likable in this book, maybe except Gat.
You've maybe feel bad a little.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Bit, like pretentiously ship that's what I need.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
He writes the books he wants to read on his
legs that summer. It's like, what are you doing with
sharpie and rewriting them every day? Because you don't read
a book that day? Are you not showering?

Speaker 6 (39:36):
Gat?

Speaker 2 (39:36):
What's happening?

Speaker 8 (39:38):
I had a hard time with, Like I was like,
is this taking place in modern times with cell phones?
Because sometimes they're.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
Reading, Oh, there's no reception on the islands.

Speaker 8 (39:50):
Tricky, Fine, I would say, don't have anything to say.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
It's such a good clot.

Speaker 5 (39:59):
That's a little w of getting away with.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
Something, something that I didn't like catch on to until
I was watching the TV show is It was definitely
a way to hide the reveal of saying that there
was no reception on the island, and then also her
traumatic brain injury. They took her phone and her screens
away from her. So despite the fact that there were

(40:23):
two years between when the big trust what happened and
when she goes back. It was condensed to one year
in the series.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
It is better, but still it's still a lot. It's
hard to rebuild a house, and it's still.

Speaker 6 (40:35):
Hard to but it's still hard to imagine. Like, wait,
why did nobody respond to you? Like really, they were
all just told not to and nobody even tried to
say anything once, Like it was weird, right, But the
problem is, I feel like I didn't think, Like, in retrospect,
since we know what happens at the end, it makes
sense that they didn't respond, but because they were people

(41:01):
really talk about But I'm just saying I at the time,
I was just like, none of these characters are believable.
None of them seemed to act in a way that
makes sense to me.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
So it did.

Speaker 6 (41:10):
I didn't even question it. I was just like, Okay,
in this world, these rich people don't only talk to
each other in the summer, you know what I mean? Like,
I was just like, all right, I guess I didn't
think about it.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, can I say that even I found even the
dogs kind of unlikable in this story the five Retrievers,
do you do you remember? Can you guys remember what
their names were? Because it's the worst names for dogs
I've ever heard in my life. Were they Franklin and
eleanor can anyone name a single dog?

Speaker 3 (41:43):
That's what it was in the show, Liberty Or was
that one of the littles or nothing?

Speaker 2 (41:50):
It doesn't ring a bell to me, Liberty bell.

Speaker 6 (41:57):
I'm going to.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Tell you these fucking dogs names.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Okay, name They were Poppy, Bosh, Grendel, Prince, Philip, and Fat.

Speaker 6 (42:07):
Oh I remember Prince?

Speaker 5 (42:09):
Did you say Grendle?

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Grendel?

Speaker 6 (42:14):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Pretty beautiful? Not as beautiful as.

Speaker 6 (42:23):
Yeah, it's like close, It's like maybe that's also yeah,
some lingo is okay, yeah, can you get I mean,
obviously the names are all pretentious, but within the book,
like the way she describes characters. Sorry, I want to

(42:44):
I want to play a little game with you guys.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Okay, Okay, I'm excited.

Speaker 6 (42:47):
I'm going to read a few I'll say, I guess nouns, characterizations,
and you're gonna have to guess if it's uh a
person or a Yankee candle.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
I'm so excited, Sarah. Okay, you said game, and I
was like, why isn't this the whole cast?

Speaker 6 (43:11):
Okay? Ready, yeah, beach walk that's it.

Speaker 8 (43:17):
That's all I get.

Speaker 6 (43:18):
Candle, It's a candle. That's all you got.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
I would be hard to describe a person as beach.

Speaker 6 (43:24):
Walk pancakes and syrup.

Speaker 5 (43:28):
Candle.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
That's Mirrorn.

Speaker 6 (43:31):
It's it's Gat and k Katie gat Cat all right?
This is this is okay, whiskers on kittens.

Speaker 8 (43:43):
It's not a candle.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
I know, it's not a candle. Whiskers on snow. I
feel like as a candle, what.

Speaker 5 (43:51):
That's a that's a person.

Speaker 6 (43:54):
It's a candle. No, you know what you're thinking of.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
You're thinking of cherries on They have cherries on snow.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
You're right about candles, you yeah, Yankees are the best
candles you can get.

Speaker 6 (44:09):
Sogged and beach roses.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
Okay, that's a person.

Speaker 6 (44:13):
I didn't write who this was, but it is.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
That's gonna be Gat, right, he was always the easiest one.

Speaker 6 (44:20):
Is ambition and strong coffee.

Speaker 5 (44:22):
You know that.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
That's Gat. That's Gas.

Speaker 6 (44:27):
I would love to get you get it.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
Stop on this strong coff is like she describes him
as that when there's years old and so when I
thought I forgot that she had described him that way
as a child, when I thought she was doing it
in there like teen years. I was like, oh, it's
about his personality. But as an eight year old, it

(44:54):
does feel like it's the color of.

Speaker 6 (44:57):
It feels offensive, it feels something.

Speaker 5 (44:59):
Well, when you don't drink coffee, yes, of course, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
What's what reference coffee do you have other than the
color that hot?

Speaker 6 (45:08):
Don's a good point.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Don't hot, don't touch, don't touch. That's a mummy drink mummy?

Speaker 5 (45:15):
Wait can we talk about mummy? Why is that the why?

Speaker 6 (45:19):
Is that the only.

Speaker 5 (45:22):
Why?

Speaker 8 (45:23):
So she called her mummy, You're a grown up now committed,
you don't need to money.

Speaker 6 (45:30):
I hated it, and honestly, I also thought for a
little bit because simply because of the word mummy that
it was a oh my god, what is it called
when you just are making your child sicker and sicker
munchs and by proxy mummy is giving munchausen by proxy.
So I was like, maybe that's the mom's yeah, like

(45:53):
she can't remember because the mom's drugging her. I thought
that that.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Yes, I mean, there were a million ways this plver
could have twisted that would have been more interesting and
more like, Oh, I kind of saw it coming.

Speaker 5 (46:08):
You know.

Speaker 4 (46:08):
What's funny is like, I feel like the book was
written in such a way that I wasn't trying to
figure out what happened because I didn't care. It was
like it was so little information. It was just using
words that were repulsive, like to mummy, and like describing

(46:31):
people like Yankee candles, and then like kind of just
repeating over and over again, like I need to figure
out what happened, Oh my god.

Speaker 8 (46:41):
Trying to figure it out. I was more like, just
fucking tell me already, Like just.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
I know it's not gonna be good whatever it is,
So why don't we just get to it?

Speaker 8 (46:51):
And it kind of like dad or something.

Speaker 6 (46:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because a lot of there's a
lot about gats worry I the twist was. I really
did have the same reaction as a commoner. When I
got to the twist, I was just like, are you
fucking kidding me? And then like you had to listen
as it's like graphically described how they all died, how

(47:16):
even before that, how the dogs died.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
I was like Jesus Christ, I was gagged. To be honest,
I was like this book took up.

Speaker 6 (47:29):
Yeah. I liked that.

Speaker 5 (47:31):
I just my biggest question was was why that house.
I understood it was the grandfather's house, but I was like,
I kind of was like why, Like.

Speaker 6 (47:44):
They were like arguing about a different house, So it
was like why game, maybe it makes more sense for
it to be that house.

Speaker 5 (47:50):
I don't know, I just didn't. I didn't understand how that.
I guess my biggest thing was like their thought process
was like I didn't understand why that would change anything.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
It's I also like their plan to burn down this
house because their family was feuding over who gets it,
was so flawed from the beginning. They were like, here's
how it's gonna work. We're all gonna bring in a
can of gasoline for the boat. We're each gonna take
a different floor. We're all gonna strew our gasoline everywhere.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Then the person on the ground floor will light the
match and then not.

Speaker 6 (48:30):
Wait till everyone's out.

Speaker 5 (48:36):
Right.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
You want to see do you I feel like these
death like this big twist death.

Speaker 6 (48:40):
You want it to feel like, oh it makes sense
or it was like we've been talking a lot about
kind of greed and I guess maybe kind of in
this book.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
And so.

Speaker 6 (48:53):
It's almost like the lesson was for the parents because
they were so greedy. They drove their children to burn
I could kill themselves, but like, we don't hear anything
from the parents. We don't hear we know nothing about them,
and so it's just it was so weird for that

(49:14):
to be the twist to me, because I'm like it was.
It just wasn't fulfilling.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
And this is something the TV show does a bit better,
is makes them characters. And I don't know, there's like
a yeah, like I could kind of see why they
wanted to burn down the symbol of the Sinclair family
in the TV show.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
In the book, it wasn't quite there.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
It's just like the plan was so obviously going to
fail too. They're all just like soaked in lighter fluid.
I think, like, I think Cadence should have been prosecuted
for man like she seems like the.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Murderer, Like I'm a murderer.

Speaker 6 (50:00):
And then everyone's keeping a secret.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Don't talk about it. I'll get better.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
Am I the only one? Am I the only one
that doesn't understand how when she comes back for year seventeen,
how how she's talking to everybody like because they're ghosts.

Speaker 6 (50:23):
Because this is also a super ghost aspect of this.

Speaker 5 (50:26):
Is that real.

Speaker 8 (50:28):
She was just like hallucinating.

Speaker 6 (50:30):
I feel like going to be ghosts.

Speaker 5 (50:32):
I thought it was never told to us.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yeah, I think they're ghosts the the TV show. Look
I don't want to give to me.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yeah, it makes you think.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
It makes you think that they're definitely ghosts.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
And I'm getting maybe Cadence isn't the only person who
sees a ghost.

Speaker 6 (50:56):
I have gotten to that part. But maybe they are
giving Maybe I'm getting the ghost I'll also from the
TV show, but I I it is. It's because it's like,
how can you it's too much, too much conversation, Oh
my god. Also they're all the conversations they have are
so dumb and pointless.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
And and they don't Yeah, he's like building a tune
of legs.

Speaker 5 (51:16):
No, can I see something positive?

Speaker 7 (51:20):
No? No?

Speaker 6 (51:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah you get.

Speaker 5 (51:34):
Can I say that the like I got a little bit.
I I I felt something when Cadence and gat got
together a couple of times, I was like, oh, these scenes,
like I'm I scenes, these these scenarios with the two

(51:57):
of them. I was like, oh, I could watch this,
like like I actually enjoyed their relationship together.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
I don't know why I love any romance in a book.

Speaker 5 (52:08):
Ever, and so like actually having like some camp of
like of like to two lovers who are infatuated with
each other. I was like, oh, I could see why
people like use this as porn.

Speaker 6 (52:23):
Yeah it's yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Well it's also you you know, going in that they're
both hot.

Speaker 6 (52:28):
Yeah, that also really helps. It's it is it is
like she loves love. I don't know, she's so dramatic.
I mean, that's it's a teenage girl thing. But like
it's it's just it's a very specific this like first
love is it's it's a very specific trope. I guess,
but yeah, I don't know, I guess it was. It
was fine. It was just because it was all this

(52:49):
amnesia stuff. I was always just so confused about the
relationship between the like back and forth and like does
he have a going on?

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Was dating someone else else?

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Rock Cal was like, yeah, so she's he's cheating, like
he's a he's gross, He's cheating.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
On his girlfriend. Yeah, David disagrees.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
He's like there's so much cheating in the TV show,
so you yeah.

Speaker 6 (53:14):
I don't know if I care that much about the cheating.
I just I don't I understand why I don't understand
why the character guy keeps coming back, because it seems
like he, by his youthful ruminations that he's like realized
that Sinclair's are evil and they'll never accept him. And
he calls himself Heathcliff and all that, and I'm like,

(53:35):
why are you there, dude?

Speaker 4 (53:36):
Like yeah, and oh that brought up another topic for me,
which is the references to other literary events.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
But I think he I mean, it's just what he does.
He seems like you like questioning it.

Speaker 8 (53:52):
To like be on your friend's private island and be like, look, nobody, don't.

Speaker 6 (54:00):
I mean, like they're white, but I just mean, like
who's there, and they're not anybody's people. They are like
the one percent of the one percent of the one percent,
Like nobody can relate to them. It's it's it's fine
that you can't relate to them.

Speaker 5 (54:12):
Like also, we never saw any sort of uh of
of hatred towards.

Speaker 6 (54:19):
Him, right, that's true. That's true.

Speaker 5 (54:21):
Like there was never a moment in which like he
he sort.

Speaker 6 (54:26):
Of he Randpa says something once, right.

Speaker 5 (54:29):
He says, no, it was it's referenced watch yourself.

Speaker 6 (54:32):
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was something very vague that
she went back and interpreted as oh maybe, but it
was still it was so vague that it was like
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (54:42):
Yeah, there's there nobody, nobody is actually profiling him in
in the book, like I can understand what he is
maybe understanding, but like we don't actually understand the profiling, right.

Speaker 6 (54:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
And it's also but it's also because that's because nothing happened.

Speaker 6 (54:59):
Or you I could argue it's from because it's from
Katie's perspective and she is such like a rich white
person that she doesn't see it, like you know what
I mean, So we're not going to hear about it
because she doesn't see it because of her like blinders,
which is possible. But it's also like it's a lot
of lifting for me to have to do as the reader,

(55:19):
if you know what I mean. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
Also, I feel like that's so generous to the author,
like we could have we could have at least been told,
we could have been shown something, I mean, other than
just through gat rebelling against But the Heathcliff thing made

(55:42):
me remember that. A couple times throughout the book they
reference like she just in a throwaway she's like going
through crap under her bed and she's like, this is
a giveaway. She's like, oh, the copy of king Lear throwaway.
I don't need to read that again. It's like, okay,
so you think you're making a little homage to king

(56:04):
Lear here, but you're not sure it's clear enough, so
you are going to say king Lear.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
He makes exactly. She does this all the time.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
The book starts with one of my favorite examples of this,
which which is it is true I suffer migraines since
my accident. It is true, I do not suffer fools.
I like a twist of meaning. You see suffer migraines,
do not continue a twist of meaning you see suffer migraines,

(56:33):
do not suffer fools. The words mean almost the same
thing as they did in the previous sentence, but not
quite suffer, because you could say a door, but that's.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Not exactly right.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
And I swear to God you guys, I wanted to
find this quote online so I had it exactly so
I typed in part of it and it took me
too A Good Reads question Juliet Jay asked, what does
this of the book mean? The twist and meaning part
I got a bit confused, and then she quotes it,

(57:06):
and then someone below explains to Juliet, I think the
difference in the two meetings of suffer was that while
she could not control the migraines, she had to suffer them,
but she did, but she could choose to not suffer
the company of fools. Hope this helped smell it and
it may blow up the internet.

Speaker 6 (57:26):
It's a world.

Speaker 5 (57:27):
Huh.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Yes, I mean the Heathcliff thing that was a whole
chapter of the book, him explaining the parallels between him and.

Speaker 6 (57:39):
He's like, just write if you want that there, like
maybe just in yeah, in the plot, or like let
us the reader it's it's it's ya, babies. I just
was looking at my notes, my random like rant says.
We were listening and early on there's a some there's
a scene where gat picks up picks a rose and
it is like putting in a letter. She thinks it's

(58:00):
for him, she thinks it's for her, for her, but
then finds out it was for Raquel. And I just
kept thinking, who puts a rose? Who does that?

Speaker 8 (58:10):
Like you said, that's how you know he doesn't really
like you. You can't get it together and write something.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
I love Roquel. I'm obsessed with Roquel.

Speaker 8 (58:26):
She is.

Speaker 5 (58:27):
She is the legend of this book. She is the
reason this book was written. Roquel, Roquel, Roquel Rocks.

Speaker 8 (58:37):
I love her.

Speaker 6 (58:38):
Do you know anything about her?

Speaker 7 (58:40):
No?

Speaker 6 (58:41):
Nothing, nothing right. I feel like she.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
Doesn't want you to know anything about her.

Speaker 7 (58:46):
She is.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
She is the Queen Bee, and she she lives forever,
she lives.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
I'm happy the other characters die, but Roquel can live.

Speaker 5 (58:57):
She is the Isabella Rossolini of death. Sir, ll.

Speaker 6 (59:03):
Beautiful, wow past.

Speaker 8 (59:05):
I think we moved past something I'm a little too quick,
which happened a while back, which was John bringing up
just how much gas they thought they needed, Like I understand,
my god, my god.

Speaker 6 (59:20):
They're not. It's funny because they're not very They're supposed
to be like well educated or could be going to
Harvard or whatever. But there, Yeah, that was it was
everything about that.

Speaker 8 (59:29):
Was ballenge each soak your own close.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
So first, soak your clothes.

Speaker 6 (59:34):
They died because of stupidity, and it's like, what what's
the purpose of being start fire crazy?

Speaker 8 (59:41):
Stand nearby with your yass can that's I'm not joking.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
That was the That was they were afterwards, we'll all
meet up in about thirty minutes.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
We'll meet up and make sure everybody got out.

Speaker 6 (59:53):
Okay, Like I'm in, I'm on the first floor, and
like it'd be easiest for to get out. I'm just
gonna assume they made it out.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Yeah, I'll start the fire here at the base of
the building. I'm sure, locking the doorway and the exit route.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
In what world?

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
Like they're fifteen years old, right, Like they're not eight,
they are now fifteen. Okay, put all your gallons of
gasoline around the house.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Reconvene, reconvene, get together.

Speaker 5 (01:00:27):
Figure out what you're doing when the match.

Speaker 8 (01:00:31):
Yeah, floor exit.

Speaker 5 (01:00:35):
Literally just literally nobody's in the house. Throw gasoline and
light a match. It will, yeah, it will start a fire.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
But the dogs are in the house.

Speaker 6 (01:00:47):
Come on, you got it. I just come on. You're
forgetting about the You're gonna you thought about it. You're
gonna burn down a house, and you forgot about the dogs.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
It's fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Like dog She's like, I remember, I really should have
thought of them, because I was the one that took
care of the dogs. It's like, yeah, you should have
fucking thought of them. And her description too, of like
it's so wild. She's like, how could I have been
so wrapped up in my own criminal exercise?

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
Fatima?

Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
Prince Philip, No, I asked a question too. It's an island, right, yeah, yes,
Where the fuck did she get? Did they get that
much gasoline?

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Great question?

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
The boat house, I believe. I mean, that's what happened
in the TV show. I t to explain it.

Speaker 5 (01:01:36):
Oh, it's gasoline for boats.

Speaker 6 (01:01:38):
Okay, all right, that makes some sense. I didn't remember
what it was in the book, but.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Still either don't know that the book so much.

Speaker 6 (01:01:47):
I honestly do, I do think. I mean, I feel
like Claire a little bit. I was like, we're gonna
keep coming back to this because it's it's the main thing,
and that happens in the book. It's the big twist,
and it's just so nonsensical.

Speaker 8 (01:01:59):
Like it just.

Speaker 6 (01:02:01):
I guess, Okay, we earned it, maybe going back and
looking over rereading that, like, okay, they are all dead
and nobody's talking about it, and that was what happened.
I mean, I guess that is earned. But like I
just think it's so unsatisfying as a story, and then

(01:02:22):
it just ends, like she remembers and then she just
it just ends. She's just like remembered the murder, and
I guess her ghosts forgave her, which is why the ghosts.

Speaker 8 (01:02:36):
Were all pretty forgiving, pretty nice.

Speaker 6 (01:02:43):
It was very much her fault, like they definitely all
die because she was like sure it was the plan
was dumb, but she's the one, like why did she
like the fire? Why did she assume that? I mean,
like it was just so many like she's she's pulled
the trigger, like she shoes.

Speaker 8 (01:03:01):
She was kind of the leader.

Speaker 6 (01:03:04):
Yeah, yeah, it was also her idea, like yeah, you're right,
it was. It was a series of like this is
totally her fault, like put this woman in jail. I
get it's traumatic, but like in prison, and again, like
we're this character that we've kind of like I feel like,

(01:03:26):
has only shown us horrifying characteristics are like she's you know, selfish,
she's she's too good for Italy, she's all these things.
They're sorry. Just at some point, like she's giving away
all of her stuff and she gives away her pillow
to a homeless person. I guess some to some homeless girl,
and then she says, my bed was uncomfortable that night.

(01:03:48):
But it's for the best, and like that's the type
of person we're supposed to be rooting for. Like you
fucking kidding me, Like you are trash, You're a trash human.

Speaker 4 (01:03:59):
I don't know, she's listen, she's not good. If the
murder says anything, I really don't like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Her little stories.

Speaker 6 (01:04:11):
I agree. I agree.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
I was gonna ask and the littles, Oh sorry, I
was gonna say the little stories, because there are little
stories interspersed throughout the whole book, like nothing happens until
the very end, but then there'll be a little story
about a king and some princesses, again where very little happens.

(01:04:34):
But then you find out that she's writing these little stories,
and it's kind of like her talent or her skill
wrote them.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
Yeah, I do am. I getting this from the TV show.

Speaker 8 (01:04:48):
Also was under the impression that she wrote them.

Speaker 6 (01:04:52):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
I think, I think I I didn't get that far
and I don't know the second time, but it anyway,
the point is they suck, so it makes sense she.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
I think she thinks of I think she does write them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
One of my favorites was there was like a little
fairy morality play and the lesson was that one of
the fairies had been given wit, but she used it
to make people laugh instead of making them think. And
it was just like, ah, yes, nothing I love more

(01:05:29):
than a friend who can just explain shit to me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Would hate to hang out with someone funny. Let that
be a lesson.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
There were also these all these funny like family mottos
and stuff too, Like there were the morality plays we
had to suffer through of her like fairies and princesses,
and then there was like the Sinclair's had a family
motto which one of which was never complained, never explain,
just stolen from the royals.

Speaker 6 (01:05:56):
Yep, oh that's an actual.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Just fully stolen, very clever.

Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
You know what. You know which story I actually thought
would be better than this book The Three Sisters.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
Sure, oh yeah, one of the fairy like like like.

Speaker 5 (01:06:15):
Yeah, directly, directly, like like that was the thing that
I was searching for so much. Is what actually was
the reason that these kids became who they were was
because all three of these women were under somebody who
and and like like the you know who. The redeeming

(01:06:36):
character of this entire movie, movie, this entire book was
was was was the stepmother who died.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
M hm, stepmother who.

Speaker 6 (01:06:52):
Yeah, Grandma Tipper.

Speaker 5 (01:06:57):
Wanted to know everything about Zipper.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I did too. She seemed like the only likable character
other than of course, are heroic.

Speaker 8 (01:07:04):
Raquel for the one who was like I like Ivory.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
You know we love Ivory on this cast.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Sorry if that offends you, I think we should tip
move to final thoughts, uh or maybe hit some hate rates,
hit some good.

Speaker 6 (01:07:32):
You want to do and to ask the author Johnna
or I saw that or you know not not really
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
I did have a funny quote from the author, But yeah,
we could do maybe like maybe two people don't ask
the author.

Speaker 6 (01:07:45):
If everybody doesn't, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
I don't know, David.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
This segment is just I asked a question, and you
imagine how the author answered and give me like a
quick answer as the author if you want, or the
ladies can play and then I'll tell you what her
real answer was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
So my question was E Lockhard? What's her name?

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Lockhart?

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
What did you think of the E? Lockhart?

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
How did TikTok respond to this book? I'm sorry, I
know that's uncommon.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
I think TikTok TikTok loved it.

Speaker 6 (01:08:30):
You know, they they lifted it up and it really
connected with them. I didn't realize so many people, uh
would feel so connected to Katie and I guess there
were a few people who didn't like it, but my
followers really pretty much canceled them.

Speaker 4 (01:08:49):
So I won.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Great, And let's get one more response. E Lockhart. How
how did TikTok respond to this book? What did the thing?

Speaker 5 (01:09:00):
It's Emily here, I listen. I'm pretty sure that everybody
on TikTok really listen. I only follow East Coast Hampton Nights. Okay,

(01:09:20):
so everybody on the East Coast totally understood what was
going on in my book, and fire is a big
element of the East Coast hamp To Nights.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
I did not know that. Wow. Really interesting. So the
real answer, I like.

Speaker 8 (01:09:41):
This choice made there?

Speaker 6 (01:09:44):
Yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
So basically because of the pandemic, she says, TikTokers really
started making videos that were more than just saying, hey,
here's a book I like. They made videos that were
very vulnerable reading the not and responding to it. Sometimes
they were throwing the book across the room. Sometimes they

(01:10:07):
were weeping copiously, and snot was dripping out of their
nose and mescara running on their face. The essence of
those responses.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Was, what the fuck this book?

Speaker 5 (01:10:20):
I just do it as emily as.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
The essence of those responses.

Speaker 6 (01:10:34):
That seems like she took it well, even though I
think if somebody threw the book across see they don't
like it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
I worry that that is somewhat furious. But yeah, Lockhart
was like, you know what, any press is good press.
Any reaction is a good reaction. Throw it, scream, burn
it good.

Speaker 6 (01:10:55):
I did listen to like a brief interview with her
where she talked about being nervous about this book people
receiving it because they wouldn't like the main characters correct
or like a few they were like a few fature
like all like, yes, that was the problem. But then
she was like, but then it was kind of nice.

(01:11:15):
It was kind of She was like, but I, you know,
like one of those like I had to take the swing.
I'd rather take the swing than you know, put down
the bat. All right, I guess like that right, Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:11:26):
Well, is this her first book?

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
No, not by a long shot.

Speaker 6 (01:11:31):
It would have been good to have that information.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
I apologize, David.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
She wrote a lot of children's books, first, and then
this is uh maybe her first young Adultay.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
That makes sense because in children's books you actually really
can have.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
You could be like, here's a picture of it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Oh yeah, that's a book.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
The end.

Speaker 6 (01:11:58):
I would love to see the children's book version of that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
You've seen it, This is it? How could it get
more children?

Speaker 4 (01:12:05):
Except at the end they uh color on the walls,
them killing the castle.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
Kill you know, the other children still die.

Speaker 5 (01:12:15):
One thing I had I hadn't done in a long
time was read a book that has like seventy eight chapters. Yeah,
I know that.

Speaker 6 (01:12:24):
We love that because it does make you feel like
you're reading more. And there's always like at the end
of a chapter, there's always all that blank page, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
It just it goes so fast.

Speaker 8 (01:12:34):
Yeah. I remember was like reading to it and it'd
be like eighty two what wait, what.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
Like eighty one? And so I did eighty two, eighty two.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
It really really anything could be a chapter, any amount
of words. As long as you have one word, that
could be a chapter.

Speaker 6 (01:12:55):
And I love that. What a cliffhanger. All right, Jay,
you want to do goodreads? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
So, unfortunately some people did like this book. Kristen gave
it five stars.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
She said, the plot introduces itself in a vague manner
and slowly unravels. I found that the messages held more
power than the character's delivering them. The song was greater
than it's than it's part.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Okay what I'm glowing her view.

Speaker 6 (01:13:33):
I know, I guess maybe that's true, just by like
the I'm, I'm we're talking about it, and I'm trying
to come up with messages that the book maybe had,
but like it's not in the book. It's just I'm
trying to figure out what it's saying. Maybe sure.

Speaker 8 (01:13:52):
The filters, so.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Kiera said, as a poem, one word on every line,
much like these chapters, I am lost amongst my endless.

Speaker 6 (01:14:06):
Tears, very teenager mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
And then Susannah gave it five stars.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
She said, warning to everyone who reads We Were Liars,
be prepared to scrape your.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Chin off the floor with a forklift.

Speaker 6 (01:14:21):
Wait, what big chints are they known to scrape?

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
I think if you have a really big, heavy chin
and you wouldn't be able to lift it with just
saying so crazy.

Speaker 6 (01:14:33):
I mean, yeah, I don't think just your chin has
fallen to the floor, doesn't mean it's so heavy that
you need a forklifting down.

Speaker 8 (01:14:43):
The ground.

Speaker 6 (01:14:45):
It went on your sane with the forklift? Is that
her chin has gotten so large that I don't understand
what that means.

Speaker 5 (01:14:52):
Does the head not follow the chin?

Speaker 6 (01:14:54):
Good point? Did it? Is it still attached to the
head or did it fall off?

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
I don't know, because I think what we're really talking
about is fainting.

Speaker 6 (01:15:02):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
If that's your chin is hitting the floor, I suppose
you're going down in all.

Speaker 6 (01:15:06):
Down there.

Speaker 5 (01:15:08):
Giving us a roundabout.

Speaker 6 (01:15:11):
All right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
I don't like to think that long about teenager's words usually,
so I think we can wrap it up. Sorry to
any teenage fans, and we're not talking about you. You listeners,
you're smart.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
The fact that you even listen means you're so cool
and smart.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
Love you're cool and smart.

Speaker 6 (01:15:27):
Let's do our hate rates and just Dave's David, so
you know we do out of five five being this
was a good bad book, zero bean. This is the
worst bad book I've ever read. And of course we're
not comparing these to Shakespeare or whatever you think is good.
It's in the world of bad books. So that that
let that guide you. But does anybody want to go first.

Speaker 8 (01:15:50):
I want to go first. Zero out of five. I
found it personally offensive that to punish yourself she died
or here black. A lot of people have the color
hair beautiful on them, not.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
David, on everyone, on everyone, on anyone.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
I'm gonna go with zero out of five. This book
was slop. It made prep look like a masterpiece.

Speaker 8 (01:16:18):
That's true, but it did.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
It did.

Speaker 4 (01:16:23):
Johnna actually thought one of the books we read this
season was a real masterpiece.

Speaker 6 (01:16:27):
I don't remember. I already remember corrections.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
Corrections, Yeah, by Jaruathan Franzen. It is a masterpiece. Not that, okay.
So to finish my time and my review, it's a zero.
And I was already mad.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
And then this woman killed the Golden Retrievers in the book.
That put me over the edge. I was incensed that
then the people died, and that like brought me back.
I was like, yay, that's good, glad those characters are dead.
But it still didn't redeem it enough to give it
a star.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
Wow, I can go.

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
I think it's a two out of whatever the scale
is for me, five five. It's what I've got to
say is that my score is more of a two
out of six than it is a two out of five,
so h yeah, it's a one out of three, a

(01:17:22):
two out of six, a one point probably.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
Three out of five. I don't I don't know how
to do that kind of math.

Speaker 7 (01:17:29):
But.

Speaker 3 (01:17:31):
Yeah, listen, it was six hours long.

Speaker 4 (01:17:35):
I was able to listen to the whole book, watched
the whole TV show, and then listen to.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Three quarters of the book again. That was in the
span of three days where I had other stuff going on.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
A friend, poor friend, you are you are.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
Getting points for that. I will say in the in
the TV show at the end, which I was expecting. Obviously,
I knew it was going to happen, Meg bald her
eyes out, bald her eyes, I will say, that's her wife.

Speaker 3 (01:18:14):
My wife.

Speaker 4 (01:18:16):
But she was like so devastated, and I was like
kind of laughing because I knew what.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
I knew what was going on, and so you know,
I love emotion evoked.

Speaker 8 (01:18:31):
So be sure Meg is comfortable with you saying something
so embarrassing about.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
The TV show is World.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
I'm sure that it is a small part of me
wants to watch it, maybe more than a small.

Speaker 6 (01:18:48):
I'll say, yeah, I'll probably keep I'll probably maybe watch
a few more episodes before I decide whether I'm going
to bail on it. But I'm going to give this
a two out of five. Obviously, I agree with Johanna.
Prep was better, and I gave that a two point five,
so it must be lower. However, this again gets a

(01:19:09):
point for being super short. Agree with Sabrina that was
a real treat. Yeah, I do think it's fun. I
mean that there was a twist is fun. I but
uh yeah, I didn't like it didn't earn anything. I'm

(01:19:32):
sorry my child walked in.

Speaker 5 (01:19:34):
That very.

Speaker 6 (01:19:39):
A little bit, a little bit, a little bit that
immediately sucked my confidence out.

Speaker 5 (01:19:46):
I'm gonna be I'm gonna do a one point five
for a one for location because I actually think it's idealing,
like like yeah, like, uh yeah, I in East Coast Island,
Like who doesn't want that?

Speaker 6 (01:20:03):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:20:04):
And a point five for everything that my dog chewed
off of the book that I couldn't get to, and
then three point five uh negative for killing a bunch
of dogs like that's that's that's like I can't we can't,

(01:20:24):
I can't. I can't come back from that, like like no,
and maybe if I added a point two five negative
off of my one point five it would be for
not telling me if their ghosts or not.

Speaker 4 (01:20:39):
You gotta tell us, guys, yeah, in your book it is.
It is strange that it isn't clarified. If it's in
her head, just just.

Speaker 5 (01:20:49):
Give me a line, just literally go like and and
I and I and I wondered if I actually saw
them that summer, like, just give me a line.

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
And the ghost was strong coffee, yeah, yeah, leaving the
smell of strong coffee lingering in the air. Great.

Speaker 5 (01:21:09):
Well, and at least at that age, she would have
like she would have confidence to be able to say those.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
Words yes, yes, wow.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
So we're all pretty much in agreement. This was a
tough one, but and easy reads, so a great time.

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
Wait, can I just can I say something that is
like a literary criticism that I should have said at
some sort at some point in the podcast. I even
though she knew the ending when she started writing it,
evidently I really.

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
Don't feel like it was written as though she knew
the end.

Speaker 6 (01:21:49):
I don't think.

Speaker 4 (01:21:50):
And the TV show this is a criticism of that
as well, because I was like actively watching to find
out that they were ghosts or a figments of her
imagination and it's really hidden.

Speaker 5 (01:22:04):
Really can you give away what it is in the show.

Speaker 4 (01:22:07):
So in the show, when like I was watching, and
there was one moment that stuck out at me where
she's like laying on a beach blanket with Mirn who
has died.

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
It's also so funny.

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
We didn't talk about basically any of the characters' names
in this podcast, but she's laying on a beach blanket, yeah,
with Mirran and with one of the littles, and one
of the littles says, tell me a ghost story, and
Cayden says, why don't you ask Mirn? And the little

(01:22:43):
goes hilarious, and then Grandpa interrupts and then they all leave.
But like then when she realizes it, there's like a
flashback moment of like all the time she's seen them,
and then they like take the ghosts out of the scene,
so you see it happening without them there, and it's

(01:23:03):
like that scene you had to know it was.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
A ghost to catch off like me, and I feel
like it's meant to have that sixth sense moment.

Speaker 6 (01:23:14):
Yeah, I think they're trying to do sixth what Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
Appreciate that you shared that Serena because now I know
I'm not going to watch the series based on.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
Some details that I heard there, I was like, cool, got.

Speaker 6 (01:23:25):
It In the book. There also is the moment where
like he does he's like, I don't believe in sunblock
or something, but it's supposedly a reference to like he
can't get because oh, I didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:23:36):
Even think of that, Like what, I just keep waiting.

Speaker 8 (01:23:40):
When's the payoff for that? When when's the payoff where
he's super sunburn?

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
That's in the show.

Speaker 4 (01:23:53):
There's a moment where her and Gat are in town
and he buys her ice cream, Like he's the one
who physically goes to the ice cream stand purchases it
from another person?

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
What ghost gets the ice cream?

Speaker 6 (01:24:10):
Gives a turn?

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
And I mean like they explained it later as like no,
that didn't happen. You were a magic.

Speaker 6 (01:24:18):
Okay. How he could have changed it? He could have
been like I'll buy it for you, and then she
goes No, I insists, like all they had to do
is that right?

Speaker 4 (01:24:27):
Like, never have a ghost give someone a physical object
if you want them to be a ghost.

Speaker 6 (01:24:33):
Did we do a little of the cast that I
miss it?

Speaker 5 (01:24:36):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
No, let's real quick go round. So David, you can
go first if you have an immediate dislike.

Speaker 5 (01:24:44):
Or you can kind of wait, what is this?

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
We're going to vote for who you disliked the most?
This cast between call it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:51):
We call it.

Speaker 5 (01:24:55):
The cast of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
Yeah, someone try to pick one of our children. Somebody
did that once. You can't.

Speaker 6 (01:25:03):
Somebody did do that once, one of our kids. I understand.
Darcy interrupted, So he is, I understand that could be tempting,
but please don't.

Speaker 5 (01:25:16):
You don't over Can I pick myself for offending a teenager?

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
Yeah, you can do that. You can definitely pick yourself.

Speaker 5 (01:25:26):
No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I am going to pick Clara.

Speaker 8 (01:25:33):
What happened to picking yourself?

Speaker 5 (01:25:36):
Because disagreed on hair color?

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Okay, yeah you got black blond?

Speaker 8 (01:25:42):
Yeah, well I just disagreed with like the depression. Yeah yeah,
the symbolism that we see again and again in books. Okay,
so the black hair is evil and a witch.

Speaker 6 (01:25:57):
Usually the good person has red hair, and there's nobody
with red hair, and this that made him really distinct
and interesting, I thought.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
But everyone has blonde hair.

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
Oh my god, I'm my little fucker.

Speaker 3 (01:26:08):
Did I dominate myself?

Speaker 5 (01:26:10):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
Don't worry. I've my little fucker.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
I asked what the dog's names were, and then like
nobody could even venture one guess.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Nobody had an answer.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
So I'm a little mad at all of you about that,
but I know I need to like latch onto one
to target my anger. I can only pick one of you,
and though I'm a little mad that none of you
knew the dog's names, so I guess I'll go ahead
and put it on Sarah because Sabrina at least tried.
Clara is a very famous dog, and David's our guesses. Sarah,

(01:26:44):
I have doggies and loves dogs, and I loved hearing
the description of your dog.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
I have it locked in. You have a whippet and
you have a black dog that's a mix of a shepherd.

Speaker 5 (01:26:57):
Thank you for remembering them.

Speaker 6 (01:26:59):
Yeah, all right, so that's one vote for Sarah. We'll
vote for Clara.

Speaker 8 (01:27:03):
It's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:27:05):
Okay, here's the thing. I went into this podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:27:09):
Love for thinking me to make me it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
Oh, well that wasn't where my house was going to be.
But I'll explain.

Speaker 4 (01:27:19):
I went into this podcast thinking I can't possibly pick Jonna,
because Jonna incredibly thoughtfully texted me before the podcast, and basically,
Jonna said, I finished the book and I realized I

(01:27:40):
got to the end, and I realized that the end
might be really triggering for you, and so we can
like skip over as much as you need to. And
my first thought was because I talked to ghosts.

Speaker 6 (01:27:59):
But then.

Speaker 4 (01:28:01):
I did remember that my childhood home burned down, so
it was actually a really thoughtful text.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
But here's the thing, the whole fiasco with the summer y.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
Yeah, I've got a Jonna.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
Despite the extreme kindness she showed me, and I mean,
I guess I was like, lol, no, need to tiptoe
around it. So she was like, well, I guess I'll
take that as a sign to give it away. In
the first four minutes of the cast, I hear that.
All right, So I'm sorry, David. I wanted to make

(01:28:49):
your dreams come true.

Speaker 5 (01:28:50):
But I love that for you. That was so remarkable.

Speaker 3 (01:28:55):
Yeah, it's the journey I had to take, all right,
I accept it.

Speaker 6 (01:29:00):
Really, this is really spread out, This is this is
unusual for us. Clara, you know what you have? No,
I don't know.

Speaker 8 (01:29:07):
I don't have really anything. I have retaliation towards David,
which doesn't feel like enough. You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (01:29:19):
I could have I could put put out a wig
right now, I.

Speaker 6 (01:29:22):
Go kill time.

Speaker 5 (01:29:23):
I can stall do a different color.

Speaker 8 (01:29:26):
Okay, Okay, I guess I'll go with David retaliation and
he asked for it, and he also did a lot
of visuals this podcast, which is I like it. I
like that famously in the lore of the cast, I've
been against judgeable like that. I tend to be the

(01:29:50):
one who's against visual descriptions on an audio podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:29:55):
Yeah, you just reminded me that my vote for Johnna
doubles down because she called it described cover.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
Well, we should do it more often and I'll know it.

Speaker 6 (01:30:05):
Wow. I I love this is fun because I feel
I have so much power right now because essentially there's
not going to Johnna, Clara, David, and Sarah and myself.
I will say I did consider Johnna for similar reasons
of the opening, but I also feel I was to
blame a little bit since I suggested to her to

(01:30:25):
do the Hillary Tail song, so I could never I
couldn't possibly vote against her for that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:33):
But then she.

Speaker 6 (01:30:35):
Give us a lot of information about the author read
the other books, but.

Speaker 8 (01:30:42):
She seemed to have the information. She right away was
like the first you were supposed to tell us that.

Speaker 6 (01:30:50):
But I did. David did ask for it, so I
did want to give it to him, but he didn't
really piss me off this episode. I did think, David,
I did think you were going to be like, I
knew the twist from the beginning, did you? You didn't
admit that though the twist? Yeah, okay, okay, at that
up top, I thought that was going to be your giveaway,

(01:31:12):
that that nobody. I thought somebody would have figured out
the twist least, all right, I'm sorry. I mean, I'm
gonna just shouldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
Yeah, we shouldn't do Jhana. It doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 5 (01:31:23):
I don't have anybody give it to Sabrina because that
we're all equals.

Speaker 6 (01:31:27):
All right, I know what. Yeah, that's that's fair. I'm
gonna I'm gonna do Sabrina. I have a reason for Sabrina.
It's because she read this book twice and watched an
eight hour series, whereas usually David, she has to listen
to books at three time speed in order to get

(01:31:49):
through them.

Speaker 3 (01:31:49):
So, uh, you clarify both times were at three Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:31:55):
I'm just saying you gave an inordinate amount of your
time to this book compared to books, and you just
knew who the guest was. Yeah, it's the first time.
I think this is the first time, this is maybe
ever happened that we are all a little. We are
collectively the little. So congratulations.

Speaker 5 (01:32:15):
It's like a sisterhood of.

Speaker 8 (01:32:16):
The somehow feel like I'm not and someone feels like
it's more everybody else.

Speaker 6 (01:32:21):
Than all right. Next week we have the plot against America,
so go ahead check that out. If you haven't become
a Patreon, please become a patron of the Mean Arts,
Please give us some money, Please subscribe, Please check us
out on TikTok, Please send us your rex and uh, David,

(01:32:43):
do you have anything you'd like to plug? Knowing that
this is coming out in August or September, love, you
want to plug love?

Speaker 5 (01:32:51):
I want to plug love?

Speaker 6 (01:32:53):
All right? Well, and I don't under see I don't
understand you. It's very very it's it's very very funny.
It shows Italy in a different light than this book.
And also there's murder. But am I giving away too much? Now?
I'm giving away too much?

Speaker 5 (01:33:11):
If you've watched the trailer, you've seen the entire.

Speaker 6 (01:33:15):
I was gonna say, there's murder, but like, the murderers
are so likable, which is different than this book. The
murderer is very dislikable, so you don't but totally, it's
it's hilarious. Go see it, all right, anybody else have
anything to add? I think I successfully avoided doing Pretty
Pretty Princess.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
Yeah, no, well no, we're gonna pretty Pretty Princess. No,
it's dead, thank you, it's it's not dead.

Speaker 3 (01:33:42):
And we've had this episode. Took yourself it's dead, you
stupid David.

Speaker 6 (01:33:52):
It's gone.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
It's not dead. And you know what, I'm gonna hook for.

Speaker 8 (01:33:56):
Clara, pretty Pretty Prince.

Speaker 5 (01:34:00):
I vote for you to Clara and.

Speaker 6 (01:34:04):
Everything I love.

Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
All right, everyone, thank you guys for listening.

Speaker 6 (01:34:11):
We'll see you next app Bye.

Speaker 7 (01:34:14):
Do ash, Let the ash fall down and wake my dreams.
Let it burn away my senity.

Speaker 11 (01:34:28):
Because my friends said in the fire along scream even
the dogs, let the.

Speaker 9 (01:34:36):
Fire burn down and comic Clean Comic Clean Man by
Ladder Bows. Friend, that's a Matchles,

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