Shanelle Schanz and Earl Grey Anderson

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Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to MeanwhileHere on Earth. This program features in
depth conversations with the leading names inthe subjects of UFOs abductees, the paranormal
panel discussions, and the very bestand brightest of the next generation of writers

(00:24):
and researchers. Meanwhile Here on Earththe show breaking new ground in alternative talk
with your in trepid host, veteraninvestigative writer and researcher, Peter Robbins.

(00:50):
And welcome or welcome back to MeanwhileHere on Earth with me your host,
Peter Robinson. It is a beautifulJune day here in Ithaca, New York.
I hope it's as nice where youare. And no monologue today.
I want to get right into it. Technical problems have gotten in the way

(01:12):
of bringing on these two guests,and I am delighted that we were all
together here today. Shnell Schantz isthe granddaughter of Kenneth Arnold, the first
pilot ever to have a UFO acounter, and in the course of doing so
and reporting same, mister Arnold changedhistory. And I don't mean UFO history,

(01:34):
I mean history with a capital H. As many of you knew know,
the event involved the sighting of nineunidentified flying objects. This in the
vicinity of Mount Rainier while flying overthe Cascade Mountain Range on June twenty four.
June twenty fourth, nineteen forty seven, and in the beautiful state of

(01:56):
Washington. Arnold made his home inBoise, Idaho, where Schnell grew up.
She majored in philosophy while studying atthe College of Western Idaho and received
her Pharmacy Technical Technician certificate from ClarkCollege in Vancouver, Washington. She is
a proud mother, wife, animallover and has her own UFO sighting while

(02:20):
living in Portland, Oregon. Oursecond guest, Earl Gray Anderson, is
MUFON State Director of Southern California,an active member of MUFON's Experiencer Resource Team,
also known as Art and Will andhosted the Experiencer workshops at last year's
MOUFON Symposium, and we'll be doingthe same this year in Cincinnati, Ohio,

(02:45):
and that's at the end of August. Earl has personally investigated over eight
hundred UFO reports and specializes in experiencerand high strangeness cases. He has appeared
on many radio shows, podcast andTV shows, and teaches a fully accredited
college and uphology at Los Angeles OtisCollege of Art. A native of southern

(03:08):
California, Earl is also as apublished singer, songwriter, guitarist with three
CDs under his belt. He doteson his three children, possibly even more
so on three grandchildren, and liveshappily with his amazing wife Lisa and their
two cats, Gigi and Thor.And that said, Chanelle and Earl,

(03:30):
welcome to meanwhile here on Earth.Hi, there, Peter, Where's Chanelle?
And oh no, we just lostChanelle? It does we seem to
have had an abduction here book?He too. I am confident that beyond

(03:50):
behind the scenes, right now thetwo Chanel's, oh goodness, are working
it out. And there she is, Chanel, Sorry about that. I'm
this is such a kind of specialsituation in that your grandfather really did change

(04:18):
history. And we kind of playwith words sometimes and there's UFO history,
but your grandfather really transformed history witha report of something that had never happened
before in modern times, a pilotobserving truly legitimate, completely unidentified flying objects.

(04:41):
The book that he published is,of course, The Coming of the
Saucers. It came out in twoeditions. Originally I want to talk to
you about that. And then reallythe reason that we're having this show is
at some point you decided this bookshould be republished and in a expanded format

(05:04):
with more information, more wonderful illustrations, and more background. Um, let's
start here with Earl. Also,welcome to ask questions. And I'm delighted
you're both you know, friends frombefore this. Also, it occurs to
me Earl's introduction included the name ofhis cats. Hello, you have cats?

(05:29):
What are their names? Chanel?Oh? My cats? So that
you're talking to Earl? Yeah,first, Yeah, I have Kashumary and
Rosie. And then I have twodogs, Cato in Sasha. And then
we have two pa keets day Muskand Stamford. So we have full house

(05:50):
of free creatures, the full animalinventory. Yeah, I think you can
step back from your mic bit.It's just a yeah to start with.
Were you born in Boise? Iwas? I was born where my grandfather

(06:11):
chose to make his home. Heoriginally was from North Dakota, but loved
the four seasons in Boise. Hestill loved the Northwest, though love Seattle.
His ashes were sprinkled over his favoriteJapanese garden in Seattle after he had
passed away. But growing up,he tried to talk to me before he

(06:32):
passed from a cancer, but heended up, you know, sub scumbing
to pneumonia. But he sat medown and he just knew I was going
to carry the torch. He kindof prepared me for it by saying,
don't trust the government. Schellie,got to think for yourself. And and
I was always so proud that hechanged history. And you know, it's

(06:54):
sad though, because he got somuch ridicule. He used to say he
was an unfortunate goat that first partedit because he was being treated as an
orson Wells back when he made hisreport. M you know, it was
the first report of the modern Yoera. So you know, he got
a lot of ridicule. But um, he was a very experienced pilot.

(07:18):
He was a solid citizen. Hewas a respective businessman. He's a family
man, had no criminal record.He's part of Idaho Search and Rescue Posse.
He also flew prisoners in the stateof Idaho to prison. He had
a clean record and nothing was wrongwith him. But you know, his

(07:40):
friends too. After he's had hisfighting saucer sighting his friends started seeing blind
saucers, and the government you know, treated it like crying to talk about
it back then, and he alwayshe always felt like, you know,
it was his duty to find thetruth. He invested thirty thousand dollars of
his own money researching yoos and flyingsaucers, and um, he had friends

(08:01):
that were, you know, highranking military officials. The pictures of the
UFOs in the book that I publishedthat I released, that he wrote on
the back he truly believed were thesame flying saucers he saw. And those
two pictures are in the book thatI republished because we shared some pictures that
have never been released. My mom'sjust been company everything because my mom,

(08:24):
you know, definitely was my grandfather'sfavorite daughter. And she she you know,
sixty nine years old. She's gettingolder, and I'm trying to get
all the information out of her thatI can. Um, you know,
just like everybody wants to hear abouthow they had a pet owl. Um,
it's some my clellent thing. Youknow. She had a pet owl
named Barney and she used to hada feed of meat and they ended up

(08:48):
taking him to the zoo. Butyou know, people think that's special that
my grandfather and you know my momhad a pet owl because it has something
to do with the UFOs or youknow. Anyhow, that's a popular screen
of memory for for abductees. Thisthey'll or you know, instead of remembering
the little gray aliens, they'll they'lltalk about seeing four foot tall owls.

(09:13):
Yeah, so it's very very let'sgo back kind of the beginning in a
way. Um, you have brothersand sisters. I have a brother,
he's not he looks a lot likemy grandfother, but he's not really interested
in the uh subject of flying saucers. And I have a cousin the same
way. It's just because our familyhas been through so much with it.

(09:37):
Like, um, even though mybrother and my cousin and I know the
story, Um, you know,it's still kind of a scary subject in
a way. I mean, sure, they admitted that the government admitted that
the flying saucers are real, andthey know more than they're telling obviously.
You know, the Vaticans has secretsand flying saucers for for thousands a year

(10:00):
and they haven't released everything that theyhave stored. And you know, my
big question is is they've always beenhere. Why why was there a veil
lifted in Jeene twenty four, nineteenforty seven when my grandfather had his sighting,
Because you know, they were depictedin Renaissance paintings, so they've always
been here. But you know,it was like we were all in asleep

(10:24):
and we'd forgot about um. Youknow, the aliens, which I think
are angels, you know, justdepicted like in the book Enoch, out
of the Bible. And my grandfatherwas a big believer in the Waspy Bible.
It's Oapshe and even Ray Palmer.They were at the nineteen seventy seven

(10:48):
UFO Congress in Chicago, and RayPalmer had this whole thing called the stimy
factor, which was the ridiculed todebunky and the harassment all added up to
the stum efector, a term devisedby Ray Palmer, a friend of Arnold
for thirty years, an a lectureproblem game in nineteen seventy seven, two
months before he died. But curiously, this is what Palmer believed the Oospy,

(11:13):
which proportes a history of the Earthand heavens for the past seventy nine
thousand years. Your Etherians are astralentities travel in vehicles along roadways that link
levels of a plateaus in the spiritualworld that exists six inches to two hundred
miles above the surface of the earth. The craft are from both worlds.
They're multidimensional and they Palmer noted thatthey made the same particular fluttering motions as

(11:37):
Arnold's you have post cited in nineteenforty seven. After further thought in investigation,
Carmel Palmer concluded the shaver was contactingoaspy like astral entities who could obsess
or possessed people, and the duodid live under the surface of the earth,
and although solid world coexists with theearth. Palmer drew starling conclusion,

(12:01):
I think flying saucers dead. Mygrandfather totally believed at the end of his
life living and the dead. Hewas very advanced as thinking. He knew
they were multidimensional. And I've grownup, which is being afo like in
theastic, you know, watching everyin jail, I could and I believe

(12:26):
that portals are the mountains. That'swhy they're seen by the mountains, the
volcanoes that like Mount Adams, theyhave flying saucers sidings there every night Um,
I had my ufol experienced in Portland, Oregon where there's Mount Hood,
and my grandfather had his flice.I just want to go in a certain
order here. Um, you rememberas a little girl when you first became

(12:54):
aware of first of this idea offlying saucers or uh, you know,
potentially hard metal machines of advanced technologythat your grandfather had some relationship with.
Was there some particular memory that youhave going back to when you were really
young when you again, yeah,I started to think about these things and

(13:16):
your grandfather in relation to them,and about how war you old were you?
Yeah, I guess it scared mea lot in the beginning because my
grandmother, his wife, Doris,she kind of got into the study of
the unknown. She wasn't she channeledand and so I had a lot of,
you know, information about like justbeing a new age type person.

(13:37):
But my grandfather, I remember himas being a hunter and a fisherman.
We used to hunt pheasants. Iremember waking up early and with my father
and my grandfather, we'd go outand hunt peasants, and my mom would
make reese out of the pheasant feathersbecause they're so beautiful. Pheasants are beautiful,
but you know birds. But mygrandfather just I just was always so

(14:01):
proud that he changed the world.And in the eighties, early eighties,
it still wasn't the right time,and he knew that possibly by the time
I was older, it'd be theright time or the subject, which it
is now. There's UFOL conferences everywhere. You know, it's not you're not
crazy now if you say you seehim, everybody pretty much has seen him.
I have friends that you know,also seem bigfoot. I think I

(14:24):
had a big Foot experience too,So you know, there's all sorts of
you know, new age ideas thatare that are happening now with the way
of the world is everybody's looking foran answer because you know, it seems
like World War three's like in astart and people are freaking out, you
know. But the world's just acrazy place right now. So again my

(14:48):
question is, do you remember acertain moment as a little girl when you
started to become aware of UFOs flyingsaucers and then what was it that caused
you to understand that your grandfather wasin some way connected to this subject.
Well, I mean just knowing aboutlike these aliens. I always thought that

(15:11):
they were similar to angels in theBible because of the way they were depicted.
I studied religion a lot growing up, but I had a bathroom window
in my bathroom, and when Iwas really young, I thought there were
aliens. They were watching me throughthe bathroom window. Like all the time
I was scared to go in thebathroom because there was a window owner.
And that's when I was really young, because you know, it was still

(15:35):
a grandfather, you know, kindof believe that it was possibly the way
that you know, we traveled onthe other side, and my grandparents believed
in reincarnation, and that's in theWaspy Bible as well, you know.
And so I'm just really been gettinginto the Waspy Bible because it's what my
grandfather believed. I have his aWaspy Bible. He was also into the

(15:56):
books of Charles Fort. My mom'shaving his book at Charles Fort rebinded for
me. But Charles Fort between nineteennineteen in nineteen thirty two he put together
a chronicle of countless unexplained phenomena,which included UFOs, and so he was
just all obsessed with the Books ofCharles Fort and the way vible. So

(16:21):
I'm trying to trace his trade ofthought on where he was going with his
belief of the whole subject. Hetold me once that he thought that the
entities that were in the fly saucerswere sitting in the house, that they
were in the house because there areindentations on the furniture, and that kind

(16:41):
of perplexed him, you know,because he thought that they were just it
was the way we traveled. Afterhis sighting, there was a ball of
light that appeared in his house thatscared him so much that he recited the
Lord's prayer until it disappeared. Andyou know, after that the thought it
was possibly a soul that was travelingin the house, you know, as

(17:03):
a ball light. And now thatyeah, no, Again, my question
is do you remember a specific timewhen you were a little girl, when
you first became aware and what thatmight have been to bring you, you
know, realize that there are theseyour father, your grandfather's connected with this
subject that you know, the worldseems so caught up and you might not

(17:29):
have a specific memory, but I'mcurious if you do when you first started
to realize that he was a significantperson in the world, not just to
you and your family. Well,yeah, I always thought that my grandfather
needed to be remembered for history.I mean, honestly, I was always
upset that Roswell got so much,you know, attention, because as I've

(17:51):
been studying, my grandfather's sighting wasa lot more popular until like the late
eighties when Roswell had exploded. Butum, I always wanted my grandfather remembered
for history. I felt like hechanged the world and so, I mean
I was always very proud of him. I told my second grade teacher my

(18:11):
grandfather was the first Polish report flyingsaucers over Maturin, are you know.
I was just like so so enthusiasticabout the subject, and my teacher was
like, that's nice, honey,but you know, just probably her thing,
you know, her families. Herfamily is a little crazy, you
know, and until it got tobe more accepted. Um, like,

(18:33):
it was in the second grade,really that you had your first experience of
the adult world not taking the subjectand your grandfather seriously. Yes, yes,
no, I remember that day andI was just so proud of him.
And it was about the time Ithink he died, about the time,
as in the third grade. Soum, I definitely remember that because

(18:56):
I was so proud of him.I was so proud of him. He's
what he did for the world.But you know, he got so much
ridicule with the whole Moray Island thing. Captain Davidson and Lieutenant Brown, they
were his friends. They went throughhis mail. The postmaster knew where his

(19:18):
address was. They all people hadto put on the mail was flying saucerman
Boise, Idaho, and the postmanknew exactly where my grandfather lived. These
two military officials before Morey Island cameover and had dinner with my grandparents and
went through his mail and took outall the spiritual religious leader letters that came

(19:41):
from pastors of churches that thought hewas a prophet of the end of the
world, and they didn't want anotherJoan of arc because you can't control religious
figures. You can't control him.But he got really scared later with how
he wanted to have seminars at theWorking Knife Club and get people together to

(20:02):
talk about the subject. And hisbuddy that worked for the Idaha statesman,
the aviation raitor Dave Johnson, tookhim out into the desert and said,
ken walked fifty feet away from yourcar. Your car's bugged. And my
brother witness government eliminate their own menwhen he was in the military. You
need to stop with your speeches.They don't want to speaking again. And

(20:25):
he was so sad because he hadspent money on putting these flyers together that
some of them still exist as aflying saucer. As I saw it,
he had one fork and knife clubseminar in Ontario, Oregon before the offer
was withdrawn mysteriously, and my grandfatherthought one hundred percent the government was behind

(20:48):
it. They didn't want him talking, and that upset him very much,
and so he was pretty quiet mostof his life because of all the attention
he got and how famous. Hewas only thirty two years old when he
had the signing of the flying Saucerson the twenty I never knew that,
yeah, twenty nine. Let meask you. M Kenneth Arnold is always

(21:14):
described in the literature as a pilotand a private pilot and businessman. What
was his business? That's oh,he sold fire safety equipment. He would
fly into remote areas and he wasvery successful at it. He sold fire
safety equipment and he was selling inHayless, Washington, before he took off

(21:40):
to have a signing over Mount RayNear On June twenty four, nineteen forty
seven, he was searching for acrash SEE forty six military transport plane that
had crashed. There was a fivethousand dollar reward. He wanted to find
it. He felt like he wasin the area. The day was a
good sunny day. He could seethis crash military year aircraft carrier. It
was a marine transport plane. Butinstead, for three minutes in the after

(22:06):
Tuesday afternoon, he saw nine finesaucers flying at echelon formation, and they
seemed almost in and out of thisworld, like fluttering in and out of
reality. And the way he describedhim as a chain shape almost and and
it just he it was his dutyto report. When he saw Hiroshima and

(22:30):
Nakasaki. The bombs had just beendropped on Hiroshima and Nakasaki two years before,
and he thought they were foreign intelligence. But they're flying at about He
first clocked him between Mount Adams andMountain Air twelve hundred miles per hour,
but later on clocked him at seventeenhundred miles per hour, which nothing blew
that's us. They had no utail. He didn't understand what he was being

(22:55):
because it was so transcendent, youknow, it was something to compare it
to in our modern world. Yeah, he was always a script for him.
I want to ask you growing up, this book was obviously in the
house, and at some point,even when you're a little girl, before

(23:18):
you were you know, really readyto read it, you knew that your
grandfather and Ray Palmer wrote this book. And we'll get to Ray Palmer shortly.
Do you remember the first time youactually sat down and read or tried
to read this book When I wasin my early twenties, and I knew
I had to be republished because mygrandfather, when he was dying a client

(23:41):
cancer, he didn't Ray Palmer gavehim the copyright and he was so sick
he just didn't put it in hisname, and so we lost the copyright,
and I my mother and talked aboutwe needed to republish the book.
And I just had the opportunity thislast year because the More Island people,

(24:03):
Charlotte le Fever and Bhilli Lipson typedup the book for me, but it
had a lot of mistakes and thenI found a neighbor that was an angel
that knew how to foreman on Amazon, and so we whipped it all together
and then Mom was like, okay, I'll had some photos and you know,
he has a poem by Augustus Postin there that signed I want that,

(24:26):
you know, that's probably worth somemoney. Is in my mom's records.
But my mom inherited his estate.She lives in the house he built
with his own hands for my grandmother, and it's going to be the whole
beautiful house. But like, ourfamily is trying to hold on to that
so so hard because it's the wayeverything's on up in value around her property.

(24:49):
Taxes are super high. But mymom tred in the estate and so
she has a lot of I grewup going through the files that was left
that he left and seeing all sortsof odd things. I donated a letter
that was from the Olympian Society tothe Chehalis Museum. They researched it and

(25:11):
it was some unknown UFO cult intoMecula, California. They knew nothing about.
And that letter always perplexed me becauseI was like, they were talking
about flying saucers flying over Los Angeles. Three days after his sighting, which
I thought was odd because he wassupposed to be the first person in monity
in Ufo history to experience the flyingsaucers. Yet these people were talking about

(25:36):
them as if they've always been here. So I don't understand how there was
like how we'd forgotten completely that theydidn't exist. Like in South America,
they'd embrace it down there because aspart of their religious history. It seems,
you know, the South Americans arejust they're so open about and they

(25:57):
have a lot of sightings down theretoo in South America about the flying saucers.
But I think that the Conqui Satarswith the Mayans destroyed a lot of
evidence of the communications with the socalled aliens, like giving us technology,
you know, to help mankind.You know, I know they've intervened.

(26:18):
I always thought when I was alittle Mary, mother Mary was impregnated by
an alien because she was a virgin, you know, and then growing up
we'd hear about aliens impregnating babies intopeople. I'm like, will, it
only makes sense that if it's atrue story, if mother Mary was a
virgin, she was impregnated by analien slash angel. And I've read the

(26:42):
book Enoch, and it does seemlike, you know, that they were
taken out of the Bible, andthe Bible has been rewritten to to get
people thinking that this is the onlylife that they're going to have, and
you either go to heaven or goto hell. And I don't think it's
as simple as that. I thinkthat we live many lives. Ray Palmer,

(27:03):
who is credited as the co authorof the book Coming out of World
War Two, he was one ofthe bigger names in kind of pulp science
fiction publishing, and in some waysit didn't do your grandfather's reputation a lot
of good to have his name associatedwith a major person involved in science fiction.

(27:27):
But of course Ray helped the bookget published. Can you tell us
how he ended up originally holding onto the copyright? This really was your
grandfather's book. Do you know howthat happened? It was, you know,
I don't know for sure. Iknow that they communicated. It was
before long distance phone calls. Hewas in Chicago, my grandfather was in

(27:49):
Boise, Idaho. They would sendrecords back and forth to each other,
and my aunt lost him in herstorage, but they would communicate that way.
Ray Palmer I think just had themoney to I maybe make the copyright
happen, since he had Morey Islandhappen, which Fred Christman, part of
Moray Island, was a fictional writerfor Ray Palmer. I didn't you know,

(28:12):
my mom's always thought that Morey Islandmight be you know, urban legend,
because it supposedly happened before my grandfather'ssigning. But Fred Christman, one
of the people about the Morey Island, knew Ray Palmer, and so Ray
Palmer paid my grandfather two hundred dollarsto go to Morey Island to investigate these

(28:33):
UFOs that dropped out of the skyin the Morie Island, a fuge sound
area and supposedly killed dog, burntthis man's son's face, and it must
have been a Harold Dog French Christmas, and I don't know who. But
my grandfather was so scared he gotthere to investigate. In Tacoma, there
was nowhere for him to stay.He went to a motel and mysteriously there

(28:57):
was a motel Regis with a reservationfor Kenneth Arnold, and so he got
the room. He swore the roomwas being bugged. When Captain Davidson and
Lieutenant Brown were there with the fragmentsof the flying saucer that supposedly fell.
My grandfather felt like it looked likelava sludge. He just got rid of

(29:19):
his sample, which is totally sad. But the Morey Island people, Charlotte
and Philip, they actually have apiece of it that they show when they
go to sell their Moury Island bookthat supposedly is left from the Morey Island
crash. But you know, hesaw us flying saucers for three minutes in
June, and that wasn't enough reallyto write a book. The whole Morey

(29:44):
Island thing was total a great storybecause it added, you know, to
make for the rest of the bookthat coming to the saucers. The first
ninety pages are my grandfather, thennext Sir Ray Palmer, you know,
so the first ninety pages are mygrandfather's words in his recap sighting. But
I do have to say in thesixties, or I think it was late

(30:06):
fifties or early sixties, Double DayBooks offered my grandfather fifty thousand dollars to
do a fictional story on his sighting, and he could not do it,
and it upset my grand mother somuch because she wanted that money. But
he was a nuts and bolts typeof guy. He was simple, you
know, he's a simple fisherman.He just wanted his story to stay true

(30:29):
and he didn't want, you know, it to be fictionalized at all.
And until nineteen seventy seven he didthe Yoho Congress, and before that he
really hadn't done much because they wereso scared of the threat that they got
from Dave Johnson when he was doinghis seminars with a fork and knife club.
They made it a crime to talkabout UFOs back then. So anyhow,

(30:52):
I have so much, you know, to relay about, you know
how it used to be. Youknow, now you can say UFO,
Wow, that's great, that's cool. You know, it's accepted. But
back then, you know, hejust he always felt like he was the
unfortunate go They had the sighting,but he had eight sightings in his life,
and my mom's trying to get themall documented for history. He used

(31:15):
as a pilot and he always wasup there. He had a sighting in
the Grand Origin. He had asigning California afterolutely leaving me San Francisco.
You know, he definitely had moresightings, but he was not public with
with them at all because of whathappened with his first sighting. Chanellem again

(31:37):
on the book itself, this isnot just an interesting historic artifact because you
know your grandfather wrote it. Inthe world of UFO literature and the world
of historic literature, this is reallythe first UFO book Charles Fort, who,

(31:59):
of course Earl and I are awareof, and who whose work was
so impacting that we got a newword in the English language because of his
diligence, and it's of course Sportian. Part of his theories were that not

(32:20):
only we were not alone, butwe were somebody's pets, or we were
under the influence of, or possiblythe creation of a wonderful visionary thinker in
the book. Again, for somepeople this would matter less, But as
a book geek, how did youor your family or your grandfather get that

(32:42):
copyright back and kind of lay thegroundwork for your republication of the book,
which again both Earl and I areenjoying tremendously and I think the things that
you've added are of real value.Do you know how that copyright came back
to you in the family? Well, ever, get it back. It's
gone. Somebody back in twenty fourteenasked me who had the copyright? Now

(33:06):
was public domain and they started publishingA Coming in Spassers on Amazon, and
then with my publication, I thoughtI could get the copyright back, but
it's in public domain. So itwas just so let it go. It
was so sad you let it go. But he was dying to cancer,
and we just think, my momand I think he just didn't feel well
enough to copyright it. And hedidn't know what was wrong with him.

(33:29):
He the doctor said he had coloncancer for ten years before he finally died
or so. And he was asmoker. He had a uranium mine in
the book. There's a picture ofhim and some uranium, he said on
the campaign trail. Because my friendand I didn't believe it was uranium.
My mom's like, yes, hehad a uranium mine. That was uranium.

(33:50):
He thought he was going to getreached off of the phrase, ye
mine, so I was trying tomake money. But yeah, but he's
actually holding uranium. I didn't andthat's probably why I ended up with cancer.
So yeah, I've never held uranium, but he did. You know,
there's a real irony here for me. In the public domain, of

(34:13):
course, means that anyone is freeto republish or duplicate it. Of course,
in some of Shakespeare's in the publicdomain a great many you know,
important writers, artists, etc.And it always struck me as very poignant
that Frank Capra, one of America'sgreat filmmakers, who made one of the

(34:37):
most iconic, empathetic American kind offables ever, he he was not a
good businessman. And so it's awonderful life a film that is mercilessly played

(34:58):
to death at Christmas and Easter andNew Year's and originally, thankfully they're not
showing any more colorized versions of it. He never renewed the copyright. That
film belongs to all of us,And in a funny way, his bad
business skills gave the world a veryspecial gift. Ironically, your grandfather's historic

(35:22):
writings and this book you've republished them, and that's great, but technically they
belonged to the world. And inthe big picture, you know, you
guys get robbed the royalties except foryou know, this edition. But that's
not a terrible thing. In away, I think that's that's kind of
poetic that his book belongs to theworld. And let's remember when he had

(35:45):
his experience, in a way,it was sort of like compared to a
normal UFO siding, it was replicatedin terms of sort of world awareness as
what happened to Travis Walton when hisstory became public, that the world,

(36:07):
not just Americans, wanted to knowmore about this subject. And in nineteen
forty eight, and your grandfather movedquickly. He must have started writing very
shortly after he had his experience inciting, because the book, of course
was in print before the end ofthe year, and then was republished in

(36:30):
another edition in nineteen fifty two.But it had such an impact on American
culture in a funny way, thingswere sort of waiting to happen. A
lot of Americans post war were interestedin non standard subjects. But you know,
it was all kind of scattered.And in nineteen forty eight we get

(36:52):
a new magazine. This is areplica of the very first issue of Fate
magazine, which is still with us, thank goodness, and the very first
issue of the very first you know, it's now seventy god, seventy five
years they've been publishing. Has thecover of your dad's book, your grandfather's

(37:15):
book, and he writes the veryfirst article in the very first issue of
Fate magazine. And you know what, it's still highly readable. He was
a very good writer. And Iremember years ago when I found the book
and I was just in my obsessivestage if I need more information, and

(37:37):
I'll get to it when I getto it. It was just bang,
I've got that one on myself nowtoo, But it was some time before
I actually sat down to read it. And what I found was a thoughtful,
reflective, grounded description of what,you know, an American citizen kind

(37:57):
of minding their own business in thesky. Although you know, on a
search for the down plane had it'sreally it's not just a cultural water fact.
It's still a book very much worthreading, is what I'm saying,
Earl. When you, um,did you get that original edition or was

(38:19):
the edition that's just been published byChanelle your first copy of the book.
The first time that I read Chanelle'sgrandfather's book, or you know, I
was very young. It was atthe grammar school that I was in.
They actually had a few UFO booksand my mom, you know, had

(38:40):
worked with officialdom. And she toldme when I was five years old that
the UFOs were real. So Iyeah, and I so I had that
interest, you know. And andbut it was one of the first books
that I ever you know, atthat time. It was fourth grade,
so I was about ten years old. It was a little bit. It's

(39:01):
written very eloquently, you know,yes, but it was It's very much.
It was this one, and Ithink the Keyhoe book was there,
and they had a heine Heineck's firstbook. Funny thing is is that I
they actually took them out of theschool library after I gave like a little

(39:22):
show and tell for these, andI talked about shame on you. So
I'm against taking books out of school, you know. That's that's something we're
through that earlier today and yesterday.I want to know because like me,
I expect, you know, we'reall readers. And for me, I'm

(39:45):
always reading a UFO book. Andat this point in my life, it's
not even so much that I havethis endless curiosity. I'm kind of after
more than forty years, I'm doingpretty good. And I got my curiosity
and control, and I continue toread books to educate myself and of course,
in some radio hosts are they don'tfeel the obligation to actually read a

(40:10):
guest book. I do. Ithink it adds to the interest of the
show if you know what you're talkingabout. And at the same time,
I'm always reading books that have nothingto do with UFOs books for pure enjoyment.
My question is have you read orare you reading the new edition of
the book now or or is itsitting on your Oh. I read it

(40:36):
and I loved I loved the additionsthat you put in. I mean the
photos and everything, or just aren'tthey great? And the color photos and
that they're slightly larger and better,well, they're better reproductions the added material.
It's like, let me just askyou, because it's it's good a
way to introduce our audience, someof who might not be aware. And

(40:59):
first let me just say there's aChanelle is referred to the More Island case
number of times. This still isan extremely contentious allegation, and there are
people, and I'm one of them, who feel that it's certainly questionable and
that one of the reasons it wasstage was to take attention away from the

(41:23):
person who should have been receiving theattention, and that was Kenneth Arnold.
Earl, can you give our listenersand viewers an idea of the sweep of
the book and what it's about.Your impressions of it? Well, I
mean the beauty of the book isjust you know, is that it was

(41:46):
about a brand new subject for everybodyin the world in the way he just
so eloquently wrote in this thing.But I, you know, I feel
like the thing is is that,um, you know, he went in
and he talked about his experience,but he also you know, follows it

(42:12):
up with you know other other umyou know, the other material that he
had in there. But I youknow, one thing what I would love
to mention is is what you know? Chanelle sent me a copy of this
and she actually she actually mentioned beyondthe back of the book, which was
very meaningful to me. That wasa surprise. I had no idea.

(42:37):
I was just told to get you'veearned it, Earl. Oh, it
was it was an essay in college. I asked, Earl. I'm like,
tell me something, Earl, andwhat do you think abouts? And
so yeah, I put that inthere, and it's just ironic, you
know that it was actually you know, ends up in a book that's crazy.

(43:00):
But that's how we met Peter.Is that, Chanel, I believe
that you contacted moof On. Iforget did they give you my contact information
or something? Or or did didyou just I forget how that happened.
But she asked me for some helpand to do an interview with me for
a school you know her. Itwas a final I think, wasn't it

(43:23):
a final essay that you had rightessay for one out two English? Yeah?
Yeah, Chanelle. You mentioned thatafter your father, your grandfather,
became a public person, that hereceived communications from ministers, pastors, individuals

(43:44):
who obviously saw a more theological orreligious or transcendent aspect to the phenomena or
his experience. Do you know ifin the communications that he got maybe you
know in your family archive, didhe also receive letters from people who felt

(44:06):
just the opposite that what he wasdoing or talking about was demonic or evil
or you know, in some waypeople want to Yeah, there's people don't
want to say that they're evil angelfallen angels. And in the book Um,
only a couple of days after hissighting in Pendleton, there was a
pastor that said he was a prophetfor the in the world, But um,

(44:30):
I don't know. He he definitely, you know, was was ridiculed
a lot, so, you know, it just he wasn't a very after
his speeches were in it. Youknow, he just really didn't speak on
the subject much until about nineteen seventyseven. And then what was the questioning
because I lost my train of thought. Um, basically you've answered it.

(44:54):
Um, Well, were there anypeople who specifically called him out or attacked
him for promoting something demonic or evilor anti Christian or my grandmother threw the
letters away he got, he gotbags full of letters. He talked to

(45:14):
the guy that talked to the peoplefrom Venis, I can't remember his name,
was the guy that met people fromVenis wrote him. He's in a
beautiful book that I have. Andyeah, he definitely contacted my grandfather,
and my grandfather thought he was wayout there. But my grandmother got so
overwhelmed with all the mails she threwa lot of it away, which is

(45:36):
so sad, but they were sooverwhelmed. They were thirty two and twenty
nine years old. They had twosmall children, and you know, growing
up my mom even she was bornten years later she was born nineteen fifty
four. She got ridiculed as Arnoldto pick his green acres was popular just
because of who grandfather was. Andyou know, it's sad that a lot

(46:00):
of the mel was run away,but my mom still got some and he
kept some things that he thought wasimportant. And my mom gets so frustrated
how everybody wants all this material.Sometimes she says she's going to burn it.
And I'm like, would you stopit, mom, you know,
because she's leaving it to me,But she yeah. I hope my mom

(46:22):
doesn't have a breakdown one of thesedays. It just takes because she's But
you've just brought up a very importantpoint, though, And Wilhelm Rock had
a wonderful phrase that often jumps intomy mind, which is evasion of the
obvious. I don't think I've everreally thought about Kenneth Arnold till this moment.

(46:44):
As a working businessman in his earlythirties, with a wife in her
late twenties, with two young children, doing his best to earn a living
in the post war years, whobuy a quirk of circumstance comes the face
on this new phenomenon, and allof a sudden, the world, you

(47:08):
know, wants to know what thegimmick is, what he's in it for,
what it's really about. Of courseit is what it is. It
wasn't like he was looking to,you know, spin this into a flying
saucer empire and you know, becomea famous person because of it. Just

(47:29):
the opposite, it seems, andunderstandably so. But I had never thought
of him, just in that simplehuman term of this was not asked for,
and you know how disruptive this couldbe to the life of one family
who is just doing its best toget along, and all of a sudden,

(47:50):
you know, you're famous for reasonsyou'd prefer not to be. He
was an episode up to tell thetruth, so you guys, ever find
it, let you know, myfind it to the truth. It was
an old old like it's almost itwasn't a game show, but it was
just like I used to watch it, an old guy. It was on

(48:10):
in the sixties. Yeah, granddadwas on an episode and we can't find
it. Oh, it's got tobe out there somewhere, but it was.
It was on to tell the truth, and yeah, we we would
love to find it. Well,I can tell you in New York City.
I don't know if it still goesby the same name, but there
is the Museum of Broadcasting, andit has you know, kinescopes of tens

(48:35):
of thousands of Golden Age, youknow, black and white old fifties television
shows, among other things. AndI know years ago I tried to actually
go there, and what it wasabout was um. Sheila mccraig, who

(48:58):
was a major Oadway player in theforties, fifties, sixties and on,
was a friend of mine and GordonMcCrae, one of the best known names
in American musicals, the star ofCarousel and the original versions of Oklahoma,
had a UFO experience i'll say duringthe war or just after the war,

(49:24):
and it seemed to act to emotionallydestabilize him. He was an MP on
a crash site and wow, manthat when I questioned her about it,
she said, well, you know, he wasn't terribly open about it,
but I talked about it on theJohnny Carson Show. So I set about

(49:45):
to try to find it. Butthe first thing I learned was there like
something like two thousand shows and theyare not cross referenced by subject or guest
so that was out, but youmight have different luck. This of course
was a major work in television showand um, you know, Google Museum
or Broadcasting in New York City shouldget something like that in a couple of

(50:07):
hits and approach them and see ifmaybe they can assist you on this.
I know Paul Heineck he found hisdad was on to tell the truth as
well, I believe, and hefound he found it so I could talk
to Paul and find out. Imean we have Yeah, we've got the
Broadcasting Museum here too in Hollywood,so right they might have exactly help you

(50:31):
out. Yeah, wonderful. Youknow my found my daughter found a punt.
Stars is somebody with an autograph copyof the first edition of The Coming
of the Saucers. She just googledit Stars book. It was only worth
three hundred at the time. Nowthey're worth more. I don't know why
the books work more now. Myautographed too, but but I think I

(50:52):
do by your grandfather is autographed byyou, which is very meaningful. Book
as a subject received more respectability.Books are worth more. Do you know?
Ray Palmer's son died and the bookI gave to my brother is worth

(51:13):
one hundred and fifty dollars now daysonly a paperback copy, and it was
when his son was publishing it.But I'm pretty sure he's dead now.
I don't think he's alive. Butit came with a cassette tape and it
was my grandfather's saying and I listenedto it with Jim Perry because I was
on his podcasting. He actually cameto visit me and we listened to it
and it was my grandfather were retellingthe whole experience. And that book is

(51:35):
worth one hundred and fifty dollars.It's just a paperback book. It's crazy
how much. And then first stationsof his book are with five hundred.
Mine's worth fifteen hundred because I haveCaptain E. J. Smith's book and
my mom found him before he diedand he autographed. Captain E. J.
Smith autographed it to me. Hewas my grandfather's friend. He saw
nine flying Saucers over Emmett, Idaho, and they met for More Island together.

(52:00):
But that book, and I haven'tyou know, it's an autographed to
me, so I yeah, it'smy It'll probably be worth a lot more
than fifteen hundreds some day. Soyes, I think you're wise to hold
on to any and all artifacts attachedto your grandfather and his a state,
and at some point, you know, if it's possible to invest in some

(52:24):
archival boxes and all those records thatyour mother continues to offer over that,
you know, you ultimately will havea really important archive of Yeah, a
footnote to American history and um fornatural archive is like myself, that's something

(52:52):
to be proud of and to holdfor future generations. And I'm trying to
hold the towards my fifteen year olddaughter. We go to Shahalas once a
year for the Flying Saucer Party,and she loves going. She dresses up
as meat coup and we throw flyingsaucers off the balcony to everybody with prizes
and and they had a saucer dayback in the time my grandfather's saft flying

(53:15):
saucers and they brought it back.You know, gosh, how many years
later, seventy years later it's youknow, saucer Day, flying saucer party,
and is where he took off whenhe saw the flying saucers. That's
where he took off. So theystarted the Lewis Campy Museum there and I
donated that letter to them. Theystarted the Flying Saucer party and I just

(53:38):
rushed to get there. They hada mural of my grandfather's sighting painted on
a building there in Shahalas. Andif I ever moved out Idaho, I'm
moving to Washington, you know,good old It's like the growing number of
UFO festivals, many of them withconferences attached, that are appearing more and

(54:00):
more around the United States, andI have no problem with any of them.
When I even first heard the ideaof a UFO festival, I got
a bit concerned because I thought itwas going to be something really superficial and
mocking. Well, what it reallyis is just having a good time and
kind of celebrating in a way howdeeply ingrained the subjects of the UFOs and

(54:23):
their occupants have kind of melted intothe world of Western culture, not to
mention entertainment. And you just can'tswing a cat without a terrible phrase,
especially but it's so ubiquitous in ourculture. And again you're if there's a

(54:47):
ground zero, it's with your grandfather, his flight and the publication of this
very special book and the republication we'reabout to go to break, but before
we do, I just wanted youto let our audience know how they can

(55:07):
order a copy of the new editionof Coming of the Saucers. It's on
Amazon and it's someone that says,republished by Chanelle Schantz with the bright red
you know cover, and it's nineteenforty seven to remember the year. And
it's not the other one that saysComing Out of the Saucers by Kenneth Arnold.

(55:30):
That's blue with two ladies holding saucers. Those are the impostors. And
you can't miss its cover. Andthat's it. This is Peter Robbins with
my special guest tonight, Chanelle Schantzand Earl Gray Anderson, and we will
be back in three short minutes.Don't go away, ya hey, members.

(56:08):
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Make contact stay connected only at KGRAa dB dot com, and we

(59:37):
are back. Meanwhile, here onEarth is the show Peter Robins as the
host and guest tonight are Chanelle Chanceand Earl Gray Anderson. At the break,
I was going through the Republic bookthat you've just brought out, and
some of the photos are really wonderful, all so the fact that some of

(01:00:01):
them are in color and sharper andclearer, and I want to share for
us to share a few with ouraudience. The first one that you sent
me, which appears in the book, but this is a better print,
is my favorite. Yeah, verylady looking guy, I might say,

(01:00:25):
always looking for an answer. Whateverthat car is. I wanted that,
Yeah, like a wonderful you seewhat kind of vehicle. That was.
He always had fancy cars, thatwas one thing. Now he did drive

(01:00:49):
a nice vehicle, so yeah,that is a cool car. And this
is shortly after his sighting. Thisisn't too too long after his sighting.
And this is the picture most peoplehave seen, probably the widely published photo
of him and a very handsome couple. They were, yes, and everybody

(01:01:19):
was a smoker back then. Yeahsmoking. Okay, let's talk about this
picture. Um, if you'd likeme to say, my grandfather ran for
lieutenant governor of Idaho and he gotto meet President Eisenhower and he's studying left
of President Eisenhower in this picture.I also have a picture of him shaking

(01:01:42):
President Eisenhower's hand, but I couldn'tlocate it. But um, yeah,
he had a lot of a lotof friends way up there, high up
there in the in the you know, military and and you know, just
politically. I can only imagine that'suranium. Oh my god, that's yeah,

(01:02:09):
that's from great. I'll get alittle tighter. Um damn. I
thought that's not good, you know, but like what mom, that's uranium.
Wow, major, So it's unbelievable. And then this is what he

(01:02:34):
didn't. Yeah, when he's runningfor governor, he painted his plane can
arnold. Wow, God, heshould have won. He definitely should have.
The last one that we have hereis your book of course. Um
again, um was your father sawultimately, certainly at the end of his

(01:03:02):
life, this incident, this subject, and kind of through his nuts and
bolts attitude was tempered by a religiousattitude. Is that fair to say?
Oh? Yeah, he he justat the end of his life believe they're
a connection between living and the dead. And I think he was very forward

(01:03:24):
thinking with it his thoughts because allthat he experienced in his life with seeing
him, and you know, everyexperience he had was he felt like it
was a spiritual experience. He feltlike it was special. And I've been
told that our DNA, our familyhad to be just right to see them,
which I don't understand. But afterhe saw him, everybody starts seeing

(01:03:47):
him. They call it the mysteriousWave of nineteen forty seven. They nobody
can expect why my grandfather saw himand everybody starts seeing him. His friends
started seeing him. His friends sawhim banking in a cloud out here in
Idaho looking for one with my grandfather. They saw one banking in a cloud,
and so you know his friends wereseeing them too. But yeah,

(01:04:11):
as we know from the historical record, whatever he observed, and for me,
the specific shape is not as importantas the phenomena you know there are.
We have to face the fact thatsomewhere out there, probably among different
civilizations and groups on planets and asteroidsand underground cities or factories, there's manufacturing

(01:04:41):
going on where these things are beingbuilt. And if you think of you
know, classical Detroit and all thedifferent looking vehicles they were turning out,
it was still variations on the samemachine. But began he just happened to
be in the depending on your attitude, the right place at the right time
or the wrong place at the righttime, and got caught up in this

(01:05:05):
historical moment, this absolute hurricane offolks seeing these things. Um, again,
as a little girl, what aresome of the you know, kind
of personal family maybe holiday related oryou know, special occasion related things that
you remember about your grandparents on thatside of the family. I wish I

(01:05:30):
in the book there's a picture likehis last birthday. Um, we dressed
our dogs and dogs and went tohis house with my grandmother as well,
and my mom made him a saucerhat and it kind of looks like a
dunce hat, but it wasn't adunce hat. It was just a saucer
hat with nine flying saucers on it, and he wore it. You know,
it was still kind of like youknow, he uh that. I

(01:05:56):
have some pictures of that, andthat that I just sticks out to me
and my memory a lot, becauseyou know, my family was there and
it was his last birthday, sodefinitely I remember that that last birthday at
his and you know, and Iwas only I was seven, almost eight,
So you know, he just satme down before he went to Seattle

(01:06:17):
to go to the hospital and toldme those two things, to not trust
the government, to think for myself, and you know, he just knew
he was passing the tortron to meor my mother. But honestly, my
mother was supposed in Peniston, Oregon. They were going to start a festival
there, but she didn't have abook and so she could never pursue the

(01:06:40):
career of being a public speaker aboutmy grandfather. Now, she's sixty nine.
He was sixty eight when he died. My mom's one year older and
she really can't travel. She's justyou know, older, and and you
know, she thinks I have bundoing it, you know and being a
speaker, and I enjoy it,you know. I hope I can attend
more more things, you know,and get my name out there and sell

(01:07:02):
some folks. And yeah, it'simportant that young people are doing this,
you know. I mean, I'min my sixties, I'm sixty, just
turned sixty five, and sometimes I'llgo to conferences and things and and you
know, it's like a lot ofpeople are my age that are there and

(01:07:23):
m and I know that there's ahuge interest. Do you look at Reddit
or anything like that. You know, a lot of the younger people.
My son is actively reading the UFOpages on Reddit. So that's it's wonderful
that you're doing it, Chanelle.I mean, I can't think of anybody
better. There's nobody better for doingthat than you. You know, it's

(01:07:45):
it's now part of the issue Ithink was as we entered the digital age,
the electronic distractions amped up incredibly.And I remember years ago speaking to
my nephew, who probably the closestthing I have to a son, who
I absolutely adore, a very sharpguy who is now in his early thirties,

(01:08:10):
but going back to when he wasyounger and knowing that his aunt had
had an experience being taken, thathis uncle was in the work and you
know, had a book with hisname on it and spoke at comfortences and
things. I asked him, youknow, not that he could speak for
his generation, but what his thoughtswere on why they weren't more younger people

(01:08:32):
involved. And he said, youhave to understand, you know, right
now we are all just so inundatedwith data and information and demands in terms
of you know, this entertainment orthat entertainment at the same time just focused
on trying to get a job ora career or finished school. Of course

(01:08:53):
they're real. Of course, thegovernment lies about it, and of course
there are people that you know,do this full time. I wouldn't even
give that a second thought. It'smore a matter of you know, I
get it, but I don't haveto devote my life to it. Also,
I think now in the past fewyears, certainly in this what I'll
call the continuing reduction of ridicule era, it's okay socially it's not uncool to

(01:09:21):
take the subject seriously and more andmore, you know, just look at
the past few weeks or the pastmonth in terms of national focused interest,
yet once again on the subject,and boy, it ain't going away.
So I agree with her all absolutely. When you're able to get yourself to

(01:09:42):
the next conference, you know,I'm sorry you won't be able to join
us at the end of August andCincinnati for the Moufon Symposium. There.
I would love to, you know, see you sitting at a table,
you know, just selling out copiesof the book. And you know,
at the same time, it's notinexpensive to go to these things. Earl

(01:10:05):
jump in here. When we hadoriginally talked about doing this show. One
of the things that you know aboutme is I'm primarily focused on that narrow
quarter of the intelligences that are manifestedby the grays the abduction phenomena, more
than the greater spiritual aspects and understandingsand interpretations. We're in a period of

(01:10:31):
time now where more and more,obviously people who would have never talked about
this to anybody outside of maybe theirown small circle of UFO serious people.
More and more people care less andless what other people think about what they
think about the UFO phenomena, whichis very healthy, but they're continuing to

(01:10:57):
be several emerging areas of influence orphilosophy or thought. One is that they're
all good and that it's government propagandato believe otherwise. Another is that those

(01:11:17):
people who put forward accounts like thoseones documented by the late Bud Hopkins or
David Jacobs or in some cases JohnMack, who's usually just associated with positive
experiences and that was not the case. And then other people who feel like

(01:11:39):
me that there's a spectrum that theremay well be as many varieties of them
as there are of us. Fromones who are, for lack of a
better description, deeply spiritual, connectedto humanity in ways we do not understand,
wanting to be of assistance more andmore people who want them to kind

(01:12:02):
of in young in terms be thatnew pantheon of gods that helps us out
of the mess that we have createdhere on earth and makes everything right again,
or you know, they're all eviland just gotten better at their pr
and sucking us in before they reduceus to the fluids that they drink at

(01:12:26):
night to stay alive. It's allover the place, but Arnold himself again
when from being a pragmatist to somebodywho was open to more spiritual aspects about
this. Both of you, I'dlike for you to kind of move into

(01:12:46):
having a dialogue together with me occasionallycoming in about this whole idea. And
you and I know are all thatthere's a certain amount of dissension that the
best example I can give, asI've spoken to one of the individuals I
think is a terrific researcher and whosefocus, like doctor Max, has been

(01:13:10):
on what is positive about this?What, given the nature of the experiences
that people have, some of whichare very frightening to them or disorienting or
threatening or scary, is this yourattitude or you're dealing with individual other intelligences
who simply don't care it's It cameto a point where he and I kind

(01:13:36):
of went at each other a littlebit, him feeling that the kind of
experiences again that Hopkins documented, whichare not necessarily ones that are pleasant or
positive, was simply bad pr forpeople who are having good experiences, and

(01:13:56):
that they really needed to either keepquieter or we need to establish that they
were good aliens, but frightened people. I think you get what I'm saying
here, Sure, and it's youknow, we're all in this together and
jump in on this YouTube. Well, I've I've learned that, you know,
I've I've gone both ways. Ihad a contact experience eight years ago

(01:14:25):
and it was not a positive one. It scared the hell out of me.
But after following that, there wereall these positives that were kind of
in its wake. And I think, you know, Kenneth Reen mentioned it.
I think first doctor Kenneth Reen backin nineteen ninety one that people that

(01:14:46):
have had contact with anomalous beings willoftentimes usually will start manifesting some of the
gifts that we usually attribute to ourvisitors themselves. Jock Fillet and Eric Davis
also talked about this, and theycalled it the Valet Davis effect. And

(01:15:09):
I know it's jumping for one momentthat you are right now working your way
through that extraordinary body of work ofChack Falet's early work, and so I
almost wanted to depression your mind.Yes, And you know the way that
I feel about the different entities,I think that it's it's a full spectrum.

(01:15:32):
I would like it to be allgood, but in our culture,
I mean, if we were talkingabout humanity. Okay, well our humans
good. I mean, we haveour Gandhi's and our hitlers, you know,
and depending on who you are,you know, for for some people,
the Gandhi was a foe, youknow, so and but for myself,

(01:15:57):
though I had this initially scary experiencefollowing that we're synchronicities and and heightened
intuition, I noticed empathy was kickedup through the rafters and teachable moments.
I've had a couple of sightings whereI felt like they were targeting, targeted

(01:16:18):
towards me to teach me something aboutthis phenomenon, you know. And so
I see both sides. But ifsomebody's had a horrible experience, I mean,
we know certain people. You know, one of my friends in the
UK, and I won't mention hername, but but her she's afraid of

(01:16:39):
her her daughter, and she hada terrible experience. And I was talking
with her and she was very veryangry because I was talking about these good
things that came from my experience.What I will tell people now, experiencers
in general, whether they have agood experience or a bad experience, they
can find a good in it becauseit's like a cosmic contagion. This valet

(01:17:03):
David's effect. And if people stoplong enough to get past their own fear,
they may notice that their empathy hasbeen kicked up. Some people are
given the gift of healing for goodnesssakes. So that's my view again,
And jump in for a moment here, because I completely neglected in the first

(01:17:25):
half of the show to ask Chanellto describe for us the UFO siting that
she had when she was living inPortland, Oregon. Again, you are
the granddaughter of the first man toobserve what we'll call on it on five
flying objects truly anomalous UAPs, etc. And all of a sudden, there

(01:17:45):
you are having this experience. Canyou set the scene and then tell us
what happened? Yeah, it was. It was like early two thousand.
My daughter had just been born.I needed a job, so I took
up the newspapers and you got todo it like four in the morning,
when the possums are all out screamingat yet, you know. And I

(01:18:06):
was always listening to Coast to Coast, you know, Art Bell. I
called into his shows times and Isaid my mom's email, and each hung
up on me. One time andArt Bell, I called him the International
Line one time hung me, butI still listened to the guy. But
I'm listening to Art Bell, andI noticed this huge blue and green,

(01:18:28):
like huge UFO hovering. You havethe sighting while you're listening to the Art
Bell show. In my part,yeah, I was deliverings and it's like
four or five in the morning.Every you know, I'm delivering newspapers and
I see this. It's then,but I felt like they knew I was

(01:18:49):
there. I felt they there,but I kept checking my watch. I
didn't have any missing time or anything. But then, like my mom came
to visit. That was one oneexperience I had and it finally disappeared,
and I quit that job because Iwas so freaked out. But my mom
came to visit, and we alsosaw one off our deck of our apartment.

(01:19:12):
That one like dropping some I don'tknow if it was a UFO for
sure enough, but it was prettycrazy. It was like orange glowing and
then like stuff was falling from it, and it just seems so weird.
I don't think there's a weather plantor anything. But one thing I want
to talk about is how I believethese UFO crashes we've had is how we've

(01:19:32):
gotten our technology. I think thisintelligence as godlike, and God wants the
crashes to happen so we can reverseengineer technology. There is no way we
went going from riding horses one hundredyears ago spitting tobacco and spatoons drinking at

(01:19:53):
the bar. So now we havecomputers, Like George Orwell wrote nineteen eighty
four, we have telescreens everywhere.And he predicted this in nineteen forty three.
His real name is even George Orwell. He changed it was so scared
that he had predicted the future oflike how everything was going to change,
Like victory is Amazon, Amazon's victoryis but you know then nineteen four the

(01:20:15):
way he described that. But alsoI want to say, Earle, I
have the nineteen seventy seven years Congressall on tape, and I listened to
young Jacques Valet and his whole takeon it. You probably love that.
I should probably milk you, becauseyeah, I'd love a copy of it.

(01:20:36):
He we're gonna digitalize him. Buthe had had a story of this
little boy was taken upon a shipand he saw his dead grandfather on this
ship, and you know, andthat makes sense to me. I'm like,
huh, they you know, itjust kind of makes me glieve more
that, you know, our spiritsgo somewhere else, you know, our

(01:20:57):
souls go somewhere else, and wetravel. My mother definitely blazes the way
we travel and our dimensions. NySaucers. But I'm kind of a dimensionalist,
I think, you know, youknow, I'm as Jock is and
Heinech kind of went that direction.I mean, I think some stuff is
probably coming from other star systems,but even then it seems like they used

(01:21:21):
portals to get here regardless. Andthat's a dimensional thing, you know,
it's going out from our dimension intoanother one and then popping back into this
one. Um. But you know, your grandfather had such a spiritual element
to himself, and that comes outin his book beautifully. And as I've

(01:21:43):
become friends with you, you know, and learned more about him, you
know, and and his beliefs,it's he was ahead of his time that
way. I mean, it's likea lot of people that start nuts and
bolts with this thing. Heinek did, Valet did quickly streamer, you know,
but they it seems like it's itleads a person to find their own

(01:22:08):
spirituality. It frees the person.So I think a lot is going on
with this phenomenon. It I thinkthat it may be like in some ways
like a control system for how weevolve, and the whole idea of things
crashing. I agree, there's theTrojan horse idea that they do this purposefully,

(01:22:30):
and I think John Keel brought thatup at one point and yeah,
that's that's my feelings as well.Again, this is such an interesting area
to pursue because it's based on ourthoughts, our feelings, our beliefs,
and not necessarily what is Reality doesn'tcare what we believe, and whatever the

(01:22:51):
truth about this phenomena, we areleft to our own devices to put these
ideas for I always felt that theyweren't godlike. They were highly advanced,
but that where you have technology,you have always the potential for mechanical problems,

(01:23:16):
and that they're not all the samepeople. That's what I think.
I mean, some are more advancedthan others, just one intelligence, that's
no doubt. But that crashes happenbecause something some minute, little lists or
that goes wrong, or as sometheorize around the roswell crash that it might

(01:23:41):
have had to do with a severethunderstorm that was going on about that time.
Whatever, Again, we believe realityis sitting there in the wings,
either nodding, shaking its head oneway or the other. I've been wrong
before, and I'm sure I'll bewrong about stuff again, and I'm probably
wrong about certain things right now.But that's the beauty I think of this

(01:24:05):
phenomena. It causes us to digin ourselves and to think about these deep
things. You know, I've usedthis analogy before, and it's this childhood
tale of the six blind men andthe elephant. And they're all over that
elephant. One's got his leg wrapped, his arms wrapped around one of the

(01:24:27):
legs. Another is examining the tail, another hand on the tusk, another
the ear. Of course there's thetrunk, and then you know, just
that whole wall of hide here.And they are arguing with each other on
what the elephant is, because foreach one of them, it is that
thing at that moment. But betterto argue that you're wrong, as opposed

(01:24:48):
to we've all have pieces of atotality here. I think a certain amount
of human ego comes into that,and certain individuals who become well known in
the world, and some very wellknown almost become leaders of schools of thought
and like religion, I believe this, and I'm supported by the faith that

(01:25:14):
my belief is right. And ohlook, there are more and more people
around me who believe the same thingand have faith in the same abstract ideas
that I do. So I guesswe're right. No, I'm not.
Necessarily. You are a self containedgroup functioning much like a religion, and
if you draw strength from it andpeace, that's wonderful. But sometimes,

(01:25:38):
you know, stepping a little furtheralong, it can mutate into a cult,
and there's certainly been those in theworld of UFO studies. I'm glad
history records that none formed around youknow, your grandfather or around his signing.
No, I mean, I rememberhow the comment in Heaven's Gate that

(01:26:00):
it's like because my husband and Ifirst met, that was going on.
We went and watched the comment andthen you know, they killed themselves thinking
there's a YO behind it. Yeah, that's out, that's out there.
We got to stay grounded. Wecan't do stuff like that. You know,
definitely don't need any more religions,you know, philosophies. That's fine,

(01:26:21):
you know, but but dogmas theend of all you know, creative
thought. Yeah, you know,I think it's worth actually delving into this
a little bit because some people mightnot be aware of what happened back then
in nineteen ninety seven. In away it touched me personally, not that

(01:26:41):
I lost anybody, and I thinkthe forty three suicides following if a Horrible
Man's edict Apple applicating exactly well.In early nineteen ninety seven, the book
that I had co written, hadjust had the first printing of the book,

(01:27:08):
and a co author and I hadcopies. Was at a very big
conference that year in Golf Breeze,Florida, and as a new author,
you know, it's it's very excitingand the novelty of sitting at your table
and there's a line of people thatwant you to sign or inscribe your book.

(01:27:29):
You're trying to be as grown upas possible and say things like would
you like that signed or inscribed,as opposed to thank you for buying my
book, And you know he's overhere. I'm over here he's inscribing him
or not. And at a certainpoint I look up and there's a face,
and it was enough not like otherfaces that I'll never forget it for

(01:27:51):
me early seventies, a zillion littlelines what I would call flat affect,
that there's no expression whatso wall onthe face whatsoever, and that you know,
you're kind of holding your musculature sothat it won't express anything. Very
closely cropped gray hair, possibly asmall cab dressed in earth tones, and

(01:28:16):
behind him a early twenty something dressedmuch the same, with the same haircut.
And I looked up and said,would you like that signed or inscribed?
Said in a monotone, just signed, and then the same thing for
obviously his acolyte, and they disappearedinto the crowd. Not long after,

(01:28:39):
I was staying actually at Bud HopkinsHouse and we turned on the news and
we learned about this terrible mass suicideamong this cult, the Heaven's Gate Colt.
Part of their insanity, based aroundthis charismatic leader's beliefs, was that

(01:28:59):
hidden in the tail of the cometwas a mothership, and their whole mystical
theology was based on when the mothershipcomes, that's when we get to transcend
and get off the earth and geton there and go out in space.
But in order to do that,it was necessary, in applegates terms to

(01:29:21):
quote unquote drop your bodies, whichnecessitated stop living, and so they did
it. The next morning, Iget a call from my co author,
and then I get a call fromthe publisher who's down on Broadway, and
my publisher, who's a guy namedJohn, says, I need you at

(01:29:43):
the office as soon as you canget here. What's going on? He
said, off video when you gethere. The night before, CBS had
a short lived news magazine I thinkcalled Thirty Minutes. Dan rather was the
host, if not, it hada name like that, and it was
I think maybe a half hour newsshow during the week. And the night

(01:30:06):
before they had had CBS had beenthe first news organization to be allowed into
the collective home once the bodies wereout, and apparently on their large communal
coffee table in the living room werefour books. Now I don't know whether

(01:30:27):
the cult people were reading them orwhether for some weird reason the police put
them there, or possibly the CBSpeople, but the camera was on them.
One was the newly one was Kennethwas Timothy Goods book above Top Secret.
The second one was Whitley Strieber's Communion, and the third was Bud Hopkins

(01:30:51):
Intruders, all published ten years beforein nineteen eighty seven. The fourth book
was left at east Gate, andthat's the one the news people were basically
calling the publisher's office repeatedly. Whybecause obviously in their minds there was a
connection between Eastgate and Heaven's Gate.Oh. And I get to the office

(01:31:17):
and he said, I'm setting youup in one of the empty offices.
These are the news people you're goingto speak to and explain as well as
you can that there is no connectionbetween this horrible tragedy and between your book.
That was the first bit of nationalpublicity left that east Gate had maybe
a bad omen but to be caughtup even tan gently and realize that a

(01:31:44):
week and a half, two shortweeks before, maybe less, there was
this guy. And there's no mistakingthat it was Applegate himself and one of
the guys obviously who went on tokill himself a week and a half later
at the order of this horrible,little twisted monster. Guy um again off

(01:32:04):
on a tangent here, but thetiming is appropriate and the story is significant
for what it is. M otherwise, cults are always shocking. I was
always obsessed with Jim Jones, youknow, mass suicide that just blew my

(01:32:28):
mind. You know, cults arejust so tragic. You know, it's
always is the answer, you know, you know, I mean, it's
just it's just the dogma. Youknow. Well, the other people say
it's this way and everything else iswrong, and you have to believe this

(01:32:51):
way, and you have the leader. Whatever the leader says is correct,
and unfortunately that way a problem liesnightmares. Then again, there are other
cults that are not damaging. They'requirky. There's Nary Areas, which is
kind of charming and harmless, andyeah, you know it's it's basically an

(01:33:13):
extension of the sixties contact movement andthe Welcome the Space Brothers. My favorite,
if you can say that, ofthese cults was one that emerged in
the seventies around a French Canadian journalistwhose name is Claude Rayel us that the
aliens were the ray Aliens are Ai, L, Ei, A, and

(01:33:36):
us I think, and he publisheda book in the seventies that well,
um, I'm going to grab itoff my shelfs Briefly, I think one
of the first books that I evergot gratis as a reviewer and an unknown
quantity in the world of UFO studies. But it struck me as hysterical and

(01:34:01):
kind of a dark way that whenhe published it and he had made contact
with these beings an established you know, kind of an organization on Earth where
the enrollers, so to say.And I'm sure it was a coincidence were
all extremely attractive Canadian women with blondehair and large breasts. And I'm all

(01:34:21):
for that, no question, butI mean it was kind of goofy.
What set me back was the originallypublished emblem of the ray Aliens, which
he wore a claude rail in uh, you know, kind of a piece
of jewelry around his neck was whatwe would call a star of David superimposed

(01:34:44):
on a swastick up, which,oh, that's kind of and you know,
for some people it's it's a symbolthat's fraught with impossibilities. Continue on,
I'm got to find this book.Well, so now you know,

(01:35:05):
there are these destructive, dogmatic cultsand stuff, but your grandfather he was
really Everything that he talked about wassweet, and it seemed like he had
a large tent that how do youfeel about that. I mean, I
think that your your grandfather knew thatit was spiritual. He had his his

(01:35:28):
own spiritual beliefs. But but it'snot like he was telling people you have
to do this, or you haveto believe this, or have to know.
Did you see that that affected hisown life in a good way,
that his his I mean that's arhetorical question, really, but his beliefs
system that he had, well,he just he definitely thought, you know,

(01:35:51):
more, had more I think theright word. He had a lot
more of a just like I justknew that this is a question that had
to be answered. And you know, his military friends would send him UFOs
and real to real, and hesent it into the government. Hey explained
this, and they cut out theUFO, sent it back and so there's

(01:36:15):
nothing here. So he was alwaysfresh because he was always trying to get
the government to give an answer,and um, you know they they wouldn't
even even Ellen Heineck was kind ofcritical of him in the beginning, but
then he became a believer, righthe came around time. You know,
I was I wanted to mention thatsorry, well, yeah, Heineck started

(01:36:45):
as a skeptic. You didn't believein UFOs. Yeah, he had an
arc that you know, of ofof learning, and he wound up.
You know, he was absolutely abeliever in the end. Something that I
thought was really interesting. A lotof things that your grandfather mentioned we still
see, like the way that hetalked about these crescent shaped UFOs moving.

(01:37:11):
It's a very common pattern. Theycall it the falling leaf motion. And
I still have people that that reporttheir UFO sidings where you know, I
had a couple of women that sawUFO over a Zeusa, California here and
they described the same thing. Itwas that doing this in the air,
you know. And also we stillget crescent shaped craft sightings. Sometimes people

(01:37:36):
will call them a boomerang shape.But I'll have witnesses draw a picture and
I had somebody dry it was afreaking crescent. It looked like your grandfather's
siding that he had. So theguys that he saw are still here,
they're still coming to visit, youknow. Yeah, we're all you know,

(01:37:58):
finally, but I studied with ArryKrishnas and they talked about the flying
behind us. You know, theythere are relations that still gave gave these
things you know, but just blowsmy mind. Why did we about?
There's there's evidence? Oh shoot,I lose you guys. No you're still

(01:38:20):
there. Oh I just can't seeit. I'm yeah, well you can
see me, but there's still evidencethe uma. Your image is frozen,
but we can still hear you.But I'll just finish the thought I was
going to say, Um, thethe Ray Aliens, the book that was

(01:38:44):
published by their founder on Earth.Um. The cover I think is a
good example of screaming out loud whatyou are and who you are, and
subtlety be damned. There we go. Oh wow, that looks like yes.
But now I want you to takea look at the emblem. It

(01:39:09):
is really a swastic attack shape insideof a Jewish star, which is problematic
for some of us. What Ithink is hysterical and there's humor in this
is Apparently a few years later,the Aliens decided for some reason that their

(01:39:30):
emblem was not helping their presence onEarth, so they made a slight change.
At this promotional card I think capturesit nicely. It's a pinwheel,
no swastica anymore. It's just sohappy Jewish symbol. They're all good.
I mean, well, that's better, I think better, better than than

(01:39:58):
quite a number we can think of. Um, I learned in religions the
swastika actually was was a Hinduism symbol. Yeah, it was a swastica goes
back to a certainly a good lucksymbol in hindu but reversed. Uh.
It's it's basically history repeating itself,Chanelle. And they see have you.

(01:40:25):
I was gonna say, your locallibrary or um high school put yourself out
there as a possible speaker. Um, well not really. I mean there's
a guy the library named Ken andhe a year ago, like twenty thirteen,

(01:40:45):
had seminars and it was so cute. I showed up when we were
going to Hollywood and do the phenomenonJames Box and all that, and it's
a bunch of old people, andyou know, I'm just like sitting there
and I'm like, he said theywere going twelve hundred miles from prior.
I'm like, nope, I'm asout and they're going more like seventeen hundred.
He's like what And everyone's like what. And then I was like,
yeah, me and Mom are goingto Hollywood to you know, do a

(01:41:08):
film, and you know, that'sthe first thing Mom's ever really done.
And and I had to drag herdown there. She's just she is just
doesn't like to travel. And yeah, people need to come here and interview
her. That's what needs to happen, you know, as a film lover,
and I really hadn't thought about thisuntil this moment, but your grandfather's

(01:41:31):
story, um of how a privatebusinessman who was minding his own business flying
in that you know, at thatmoment, became this international focus and the
impact on his life and family's life, and much in the spirit of that,
what I think is still a terrificfilm, Roswell by Don Schmidt and

(01:41:56):
M. Paul David, which focusesin on not the phenomena, but the
impact it had on the whistleblower,so to say, Jesse Marcel's senior.
And it's a it's a tough story. Your dad, thankfully, your grandfather,
thankfully. I keep saying that didnot was not put in that kind

(01:42:16):
of internationally humiliating, really demeaning overallfocus. You know, people thought what
they did about him, but youknow, he yelled his dead high and
continued on. Did he stay inthe business of supplying firefighting equipment or did

(01:42:39):
he move on to something else.He almost died and he got caught in
a tornado and he had to getstitches all around his forehead. It ripped
the spin off his face. Hecrashed in an airplane crash, almost died,
but no, he was always Heflew to the very last day he
could play. And then I guessthe story goes as he sold his airplanes

(01:43:00):
to build grandmother's house. Grandmother wanteda dream house and he built it for
you know, and it's still there. I hope we can hold on to
it, but you know, mom, mom's getting old and my dad's getting
old, and they really don't knowif they can keep up with the yard
work and whatnot. It's not aneager but you know, my husband and
I really can't live with my durist. But you know, if I guess

(01:43:23):
that point, we're probably gonna haveto take care of him if they get
older, because we don't really wanthim to go to a home, because
then there will be no house butsave Kenneth Arnold's house. My husband has
also thought we should make it intoa museum, which is kind of far
fetched, but you know, justwith everything the mom got you know,

(01:43:43):
as long as she doesn't burn everythingin the burnt pot because she's frustrated.
You know. She had a guythat copied my grandfather's scrap book and sold
it to a guy in Florida.She didn't find out for fifteen years.
The guy's like, oh, yeah, I got this scrapbook from this guy.
I won't mention his name because wedon't like him, but yeah,
he's copy everything you need. Didto you know, the files files.

(01:44:09):
He copied everything and sold sold it, sold it. She had the originals,
but you know, mom's a littleyou know, the History Channel wanted
to do something with us, andshe still was like, no, you
guys are gonna have to pay mesome money, and they just they want
you on there for Harley nothing.And so we weren't part of the newest

(01:44:30):
UFO show on the History Channel,which kind of hurt my feelings. I
was excited for it and they talkedto everybody, but instead they had a
reenaction of my grandfather's sighting that wasat no interviews, you know, of
the family, and you know,it's kind of sad. They wanted my
mom and I but Mom, shejust thinks that she's her stuff's worth money,

(01:44:51):
and she just won't give stuff away. But then look at me,
I'm sure in pictures and I'm justletting them go because like they wanted to
make a statue of my grandfather andshahalas Washington, they didn't have a picture
to go by because there aren't therewasn't very many pictures for my grandfather out
there, and so I always Ileak that one of him looking up in

(01:45:13):
the sky because Mom had I'm like, God, Mom's such a great picture,
and you know, I just wantpictures of him out there that you
know, he ran for governor.I mean, he was just he was
he was an honest guy. Heyou know, had this experience that was
unbelievable, you know, and hewas able to to you know, still
succeed in life, you know,even though he was very disappointed at the

(01:45:36):
end of his life because he feltlike he had gotten no answer. Um
and you know, passed the torchon to me. It's really sad because
Mom really wanted to be a speakerwhen she was younger, and now she
just can't. She can't travel,she's just not in good health. But
you know, to me, youknow, I'm forty six, and I

(01:45:58):
can't believe it. And then mydaughter's into it. She's only fifteen,
so maybe Summer will be the onethat you know, is speaking years pronounced
to me and she, Yeah,imagine how differently your grandparents' lives, your
parents' lives, your lives would havebeen had he simply not been there to

(01:46:20):
see what he saw when he sawit. Can you even imagine how differently
your family's life would have evolved?Fair enough? Yeah, yeah, he
just he lost so much privacy withwith you know, everyone knowing where he

(01:46:41):
lived, and you know, hejust it overwhelmed the family, it really
did, and that's why they laidlow after the Forking Night Club Step seven,
I fell through. He laid lowuntil about nineteen three years later,
nineteen seventy seven, and fol Congressand I have a book says autographed.
He had autograph books, and Ihave some at the museum that I've donated.

(01:47:02):
But you know, he knew hisautograph is going to be worse something,
and it will eventually worse something.And my mom just got all his
books in the living room and Ijust pick out what I want bringing back
here to my house. And youknow, in the lost people, although
I'm really getting into it just becauseit just blows my mind that it's that
they have looking for all my life. I study with Ary Christians. They

(01:47:24):
believe in reincarnation, but you know, you have to really be into dancing
and you know, payment on yourface and doing color color throwing activities,
and you know, it was kindof out there. But you know,
I grew up with a Mormon halfthe side of my family or Mormons,
and and they're kind of open tothe idea of of you know, being

(01:47:44):
visited by aliens. I don't reallyknow how they explain it in church.
But one interesting thing, I'm baptizedMormon. Travis Walton is baptized Mormon,
and I think that in the intheir book they talk about the Second Coming
and how you know, it's like, why why is it the Mormon religion
that you know, I think thealiens might ask them to do with the
Mormon religion. I think maybe too, I thought that as well. But

(01:48:15):
you know, I just studied religionsin college and here in Boise either we
were in Mecca. We got allsorts of religions. You know, I
did a Christianity thing that really Idon't know, I just don't think we
go to hell forever. I thinkwe reincarnate and we can't remember our previous
lives because it would overwhelm us.You know, I just believe that when

(01:48:35):
I was young, I felt likeI exist now, but I've always existed,
even though I can't remember before innineteen seventy seven, I know I've
always been. I've always existed.I know for a fact, we're lights
that you cannot be diminished, wereballs and energy balls alike, just like
Tesla said. And you know,it's great that we're evolving, but I

(01:48:58):
think we're evolving to being telepath Thatmy grandmother was Norwegian and when she was
little, my great grandmother would haveall the children sitting around the table and
think of the same song, andthey would think of the same song.
And I have a book that mymother gave me by Alice Bailey called Telepathy,

(01:49:18):
and I've been reading it. AliceBailey's really esoteric, but she's got
some pretty good books. But youknow, I think we're evolving to be
in telepathic because a lot of mygood friends and I we think of each
other and then we call each other, and you know, like it's just
weird. It seems like we areconnected. We just don't realize it,

(01:49:39):
you know. Yeah, people withyou know, everyone's connected, every everything,
and everyone every everything. That's kindof yeah. Well Ben Rich said,
you know when he gave a lectureat UCLA that he was that's been

(01:50:00):
Rich. Oh, he was thehead of Lockheed. But he was asked
how how we could possibly travel atthe speed of light and he answered,
um, well I was telepathy work. And the answer was, well,
everything everywhere in the universe is connected. And he said yes, and he
said, and that's how faster thanlight travel works as well. He was

(01:50:21):
speaking as though it was already athing, which is interesting. I was
back in nineteen ninety two or somethingvery productive. Yes, but they do
say these aliens they're telepathic, andthey and I feel like that's where we're
heading. You know, we're headingto be telepathic, even though I'll let

(01:50:43):
people don't want that to happen.You know, we're stop lying. You
know, people wouldn't be able tolie to each other anymore. Yeah,
it's intrusive to everybody know everything aboutit. But you know, I know
some good friends that we reach outto each other, you know, at
the right time or call at theright time, and they're like, I

(01:51:06):
was thinking of you, and youknow, just stuff like that, you
know, being telepathic. And II was experienced somebody that had precognition,
which this person could tell the futureand it was true what he predicted.
And that today baffles my mind becauseI looked it up and it exists,

(01:51:28):
But I don't understand how it works, how you can actually predict the future.
It's precognition or something. I googledit. But people could actually predict
the future because it's already happened,supposedly, Supposedly everything's happened. You know.
The only thing we have is thismoment to do what we're going to
do. But everything's already happened,and you know, we're just like living

(01:51:51):
in a moment now, it seems. But anyhow, yeah, I don't
know if everything has happen up andalready. At the same time, I
think you're absolutely on the money.The one thing we always have is the
now, the moment, and toact as positively, as supportively with as

(01:52:15):
much goodwill as possible in the moment, and if not, to do your
best not to get hurt as faras moments go. We have about ninety
seconds worth of them left. Anyclosing thought, channel about your grandfather his
legacy, and again I know thatthe newly published version of the Coming of

(01:52:43):
the Sausage is available of course onAmazon. If somebody would like to get
an inscribed or signed copy by you, is there any way that they can
do that realistically? Do you havea website or someplace where they can go
to order a copy? Kid sizebook? Is just try to find me
on Facebook and message me channel shansyou know, and and spell my name

(01:53:06):
you know the right way. Ihope people can see how to spell my
name. Yeah, so yeah,I just spelled on the chiron under your
name there sc h A n Z. Both Earl and I really love this
book and recommend adding it to yourlibrary. It is a remarkable American memoir

(01:53:30):
in its own way and the beginning. It is the very first UFO book
and a really important addition to theliterature that said our time has done.
Chanelle Schantz, Earl Gray Anderson,my dear friend, thank you both so
much for joining me tonight, andfor the rest of you, stay well,

(01:53:51):
stand up for what you're believing,and be kind to each other whenever
possible. See you next week inhonor