Life Is But A Dream | Proof We Live In A Matrix/ Simulation/ Hologram - Meta Mystics

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You created everything. Look for a powerful being you are.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
You did these.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Things, but now you're in a human body.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
You forget the power you have.

Speaker 4 (00:14):
What you do is what the whole universe is doing
at the place you call here, and now you are
something the whole universe is doing. In the same way
that a way is something that the whole ocean is doing.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
You're doing doing what you imagination. Welcome to metamistics where
you don't know what you don't know. My name's Jonathan,
I'm Sean, and tonight is wonder wisday Maybe that is right.
It's going to be a fun time. We don't have

(00:54):
a guest tonight, but the topic is something that I
feel like is right there, dude, it's right there right
like for the picking and I feel like so many
people just you know, kind of look past it. And
so yeah, tonight we're gonna blow some damn minds. That's
that's really the goal and and the best way that

(01:16):
we possibly can.

Speaker 5 (01:17):
So welcome into the best way in.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
The best way.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah. I was telling my parents earlier. I was like, dude,
you know some people they have their mind blown one time,
and they're like, nah, I want to stick with what's comfortable.
I don't like having my mind blown. I'm good on that.
You know, some people they don't like, you know, they
don't like getting drunk because of that, or they don't
like smoking weed because of that. They they will never
try psychedelics because of that or whatever. Right, And I've

(01:42):
I feel like We've done so many of these shows
to where I've just become addicted to having my mind blown,
you know what I'm saying, Like it's all on addiction
at this point.

Speaker 5 (01:50):
One of my favorite things too, is you know, not
only you know the topics that happen to come up,
or the things that you you bring up, or the
things that I've already been contemplating, you know, which it's
kind of strange already, but uh, the fact that you
know a lot of people are kind of vibing on
this type of information.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
You know.

Speaker 5 (02:07):
I feel like I always have an idea of where
the show's going to go just based off of the
topic that you've brought up, and then it goes somewhere
totally different, and I get so many more things out
of it than I even could have imagined.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
That's my favorite part. Well, hopefully that is how tonight
is going to be for the one out there, because
tonight we are going to be talking about is life
a dream? Isn't a matrix? Is it a simulation? Is
it something more? Is it something less? Or are we
just a bunch of crazies? And I promise you it's
not your It's not your grandma's matrix story. Okay, this

(02:41):
one's going to go a little deeper.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
This is dude. I just it was just last night
as of time of recording.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
So we typically record these live shows on Wednesdays and
then the Cult of Conspiracy live shows on Tuesdays, right,
so it's usually fresh in my mind about what we
talked about the night before or in those live shows,
and me and Jacob were going on and I was like, well, yeah,
I mean, I'm pretty sure it's I don't know if
it's been proven, but at least that they're alluding to

(03:10):
consciousness preceding reality like material reality, and that you know,
it's not so much that something had to be physical
first and then there was some kind of chemical reactions
and then consciousness was born from it.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
It was more so that and this is.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
What quantum mechanics is trying to show, and this is
what a bunch of philosophers are talking about. This is what, dude,
literally almost and we're going to go down the list
almost every ancient religion has talked about since the beginning
of time, and that is that consciousness was the first thing,
it will always be the first thing, and the material

(03:48):
reality is the illusion.

Speaker 5 (03:50):
So tonight I love that, Yes, I love that. I
know that the physical the physicalist approach would be that,
you know, consciousness is derived from the physical, you know.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
But the one thing that I will say.

Speaker 5 (04:02):
And this definitely just to get it started, I don't
even think it's too crazy, but that the whatever if there,
if there even was a beginning of to the universe,
if the universe itself wasn't just always you know, eternal,
but it always at least had the potential to be conscious, right,
So like, if there was a universe, let's say, obviously

(04:23):
we wouldn't be able to observe it if there was
no consciousness, but there would still have to be for
for this universe that we're in now, there would have
to be the potential for consciousness. And I don't know,
I think that that's just crazy in itself.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
I mean, it's crazy to even think that we're the
only things with consciousness. And that was part of that
episode last night as well, is that, you know, even animals, Jacob,
you know, and a lot of other Christians, not even
just calling out Jacob, that's my brother, but a lot
of religious people will say, well, yeah, you know, animals
don't have a soul or a spirit. You know, it's
they don't have that we're we're obviously the reason why

(05:00):
we're at the top of the food chain is because
of our soul, is because of our consciousness. And I
don't know if you know, and I used to kind
of be a thinker like that, not that animals didn't
have souls, because I grew up watching all dogs go
to heaven, so that convinced me. But you know, like
I think that the idea that we're at the top
of the food chain in and of itself is an illusion.

(05:20):
And this is not alluding necessarily to aliens or gods or.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Anything like that.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
It's more so that like maybe the animals are just
like doing whatever is in their nature to do, and
that's all we're doing too.

Speaker 5 (05:33):
Exactly what we're doing, like in our nature is to
contemplate and to think we have the capacity to understand
complex ideas, you know, and make.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Up new ones.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
And so we're doing exactly what we're supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Doing, oh dude.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
And people for forever have kind of succumbed to the illusion.
I mean, not even just to the illusion that this
reality may not be you know, strictly material, but how
about the illusion of I mean, you could say, if
you are a believer in any other religion, that every
other religion is having an illusory experience, right like if

(06:09):
somebody is up there talking to Allah or talking to
Mohammad or talking to I don't.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Know for or you know, name your deity.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
You know you got Hecaiti, hecta, you know, within witchcraft
and all like, people all over the world claim to
have some kind of communication with the other side. And
so it's either a everybody is just losing their nam
mind and talking to imaginary friends. B. What most religions

(06:41):
would like you to say is that everybody else is
losing their damn mind. And what you're what this one
is really alluding to, that that's the real one, or
see that it's all real, and I like to go
with that real and none of it is, you know,
in that sense. Well, and that's the beauty of today,
is that every single thing that you've ever experienced could

(07:04):
be real or an illusion. So all right, and I'm
not saying that, you know, I'm not going to the whole.
You know, we're we're in some kind of test tube
and we're being force fed something to just keep us
alive so they can feed off of our loose or whatever.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Not going there.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
It's more so that this entire reality as a whole
very similar to a dream is. You know, it's as
real as a dream is. I mean, do you consider
a dream reality?

Speaker 6 (07:35):
You know?

Speaker 5 (07:36):
No, not once you wake up, no, not like, oh
that's definitely, definitely it was a dream. But when you're
in the dream, dude, I'm telling you, I've been pretty
convinced of some pretty weird ass ship for no reason.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
You know, just took it on as reality. Oh dude, yeah,
it's you you accepted as fact, you know, And that's
until you know, every so often you might get a
lucid dream, right You're like, oh my god, I just
woke up this crazy dream, Like I'm in a dream
right now. And usually, you know, at least in my experience,
whenever I start to have a lucid dream. It's like
I know that the countdown is on now, you know
what I'm saying. It's like I know I'm about to

(08:11):
wake up.

Speaker 5 (08:12):
Which actually makes sense now that you think about it,
because I was not to cut you off. I was
just thinking, like, why why does a lucid dream even happen?
You know, But that makes sense. Once you become lucid,
there would be a timer because you're already becoming conscious,
you know, but you're just still just so happen to
be in the dream still, you know, so you're waking up.

Speaker 7 (08:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, it's strange, dude.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
I mean, consciousness in general is just I mean, it's
the dow, you know what I mean. Like it just
there's no way anything that you can say to try
to describe it or explain it will never be enough.
And some people would say the consciousness is God, or
that the universe, you know, and everybody has all these
different interchangeable terms. But whenever you just go throughout all

(08:56):
the old myths and all the old stories and all
the old religions and just obstitute God for consciousness, the
fucking story starts to shape up to make a little
bit more sense. Ye, So yeah, it's it's pretty wild.
And there's obviously levels of consciousness. I'm not saying that like,
you know, all all states of consciousness is God, is

(09:17):
the universe, is the all whatever, right, because I do
believe that there absolutely is stages of consciousness. I mean,
you know, we talk about you know, alpha, beta, theta,
and delta, right, and that's just the simpler ones, but like,
I mean, there's probably many more beyond that. Some people
even bring up gamma, you know, which isn't the next
stage after theta. So it's like I'm almost about to sleep,

(09:39):
almost about to sleep, you know, like both. So, yeah, dude,
consciousness is a wild thing. And also it's the reason
why people go into such deep meditative you know stances
is that you know, you think about the monks in
the in the gurus that literally dedicate their lives to meditation,
you know what I'm saying, Like, think about those those
those bald headed monks that are sitting at the top

(10:01):
of Mount whatever, and they're in the freezing cold snow,
right because it's all super high up, obviously it's gonna
be a little.

Speaker 5 (10:11):
Chillier in the clouds.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
In the clouds and the weather's not affecting them like
like whim Hoff type shit, and they're like, I am
peace right, well, and I think that you know, they've
gotten to a place in their mind that it's like
I am warm as long as I accept it.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
And so then what's traite.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
What's crazy about it is is that their body starts
to accept that information. And so now there is no
frost bites, There is no you know, wind burn or
anything like that. It is just that your body can
somehow regulate a steady temperature. Now, how does that happen
if all we are is just meatsuits? How does that happen?

(10:52):
Is if this is the material reality that we talk about,
what where's you know, where's the the little hot pockets
or the hot hand that are they are they.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Hiding it in their robe? You know?

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Like what's keeping them warm? What is bringing that heat
out of them? And what's crazy is it's their fucking mind,
it's their consciousness and and it's just stuff like that
to where you look at it and you're like, that
doesn't actually make sense that that's a real thing.

Speaker 5 (11:18):
Yeah, I mean if you look at it, dude, you're
just a big ass clump of cells, you know what
I mean, and your mind is telling those cells like
we're good on't evein trip, you know what I mean,
We're warm, we're safe, we're at peace right now, and
they're just like all right.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Well, I mean that's the same thing with transmutation. That's
all it is.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's just transmutation. It is the most magical thing, you know,
abso and so. I would actually say that transmutation would
have to be a city, right, Oh, Like, it has
to be a form of a city.

Speaker 5 (11:49):
Absolutely, and you can train your mind to absolutely believe
whatever you tell it.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, that's a superpower, dude, one hundred percent. So yeah,
that's what we're going to be getting into today. Before
we do, I want to get over the chat see
what all of the one are talking about. Taylor said,
Happy Wednesday, weirdos here for this topic tonight. Let's go.

Speaker 5 (12:08):
I needed this one.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, uh and weirdos too.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
I think that that was something we were contemplating in
the beginning of what what we're gonna call you know,
the listeners, the yep, it's just it's just implied now.
I think it's interchangeable. Yeah, it's like tomato tomato, but
White Boy Wizard said, what up you lovely mufffuggers? What
up my dude, White Boy Wizard, love you, dude. Ben

(12:34):
Crafton said, I love it. Welcome ben Uh and Taylor said,
oh my god, talk about Matrix. I've literally heard more
about monks in the past two days than ever.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
The synchronicities tripped me out.

Speaker 5 (12:43):
Wow, that's cool. That's cool, and it's.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Kind of crazy too.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
So you know, the the how people used to look
at people chasing their their spiritual truth or trying to
become one with God, and you like, look at that.
Over time, it used to be really understood. Like the
story of Buddha, Right, everybody knows the whole story. I'm
not going to give the whole thing, but like essentially,
you know, he lived this prim and proper life for

(13:11):
the longest time, didn't know that all these negative things
were even happening around him, and so whenever he started
to realize that, he kind of separated himself from everything,
right because he was like, you know, to live is
basically to suffer, right, and that was like not even
necessarily to live, it's that you're to have.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Attachments is to suffer.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, And so he he like detached everything from his life.
I mean, he had a wife, he had kids, and
he decided to go off on his own. I don't know,
I can't remember how long he was gone, but he
was gone quite a while. And his family was proud
of him for that, Like that was that was like
a very proud thing that you'd be like, oh my god,
I can't my husband's doing it, Like that's crazy, you know,

(13:51):
and and and you know, it's crazy that that's not
necessarily so much accepted, you know nowadays, I mean rightfully,
so nobody wants to leave their wife or their kid
or anything like that, or their husband, or their parents
or their job. You know, we all have these attachments.
But I think the moral of the story is that
attachments is what brings the suffering, because without attachments, there

(14:12):
is nothing to suffer from.

Speaker 5 (14:14):
Oh right, yeah, you can just let something be, let
it be. Not necessarily have an opinion on everything.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, dude, So anyhow, let's get into it. Life is
but a dream. I am potentially going to be bringing up, well,
I'm going to be bringing up the potential that we
live in a matrix, a simulation, or a holographic reality.
And this is going to be looking at it through
an esoteric lens.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
So, and I haven't heard too many people, you know,
really go about it.

Speaker 6 (14:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Most people are like, it's code, and you know, all
we are is ones and zeros.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Maybe that's the case. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
But you're a battery, you know.

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (14:51):
I'm not doing that. Yeah, not doing that.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
It's nothing to say, like, I'm not trying to sit
here and say that Danny Gohler is full of shit,
because I still love all of his experiments, but this
is more of a esoteric, spiritual, inner world kind of
reality that we're diving into tonight.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
Well, which, to be honest, dude, I think that's what
it all is. It's all an internal battle. It's all
an internal struggle and internal you know. They say that,
you know, heaven is within you, you know, and I
believe it, dude. You know whatever that is, that that
is within you because you have the ability to transmute
the situation within your mind. And how crazy is that?

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, it shouldn't be that crazy.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
I just think about when you say it out loud,
people are going to be like, that's crazy, dude.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Even the simplest thing like this is gonna be like
a silly one. But like Joe Dirt, right, whenever he
gets it, whenever he gets basically kidnapped by it, puts
the notion on its skin. Guy. All right, he's like
down in that hole. Now, he could be crying and screaming.
It could literally be the worst time ever, right, but

(15:55):
he's just like cracking jokes. He's not really taking anything
too seriously. He eventually gets out and he finds out
that that guy used to what was he like, cutting
people's faces off or something like that. Yeah, right, and
he got up, well, WHOA, what a weirdo, you know,
and just walked away, Like a lot of people would.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Be traumatized by that.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
But I think that maybe, you know, at least within
the story, it was a it was a version of
you know, transmuting.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
A little bit.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Right.

Speaker 5 (16:20):
Oh, absolutely, dude. That movie is so I feel like
that movie is so underrated, man, dude, but it's so
fucking good.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Class It gets better every time, I think, Yeah, it does, Yeah,
it does so. Nearly every mystical or initiatory tradition in history,
from Egypt to Greece to Gnosticism to modern quantum spirituality,
has said that the world you see is not the
true world, but rather a projection, an illusion, or a

(16:46):
veil that hides the ultimate reality of consciousness. So let's
go through it by tradition so that we can clearly
see that this isn't just a Hindu or a Buddhist thing.
It's a universal hidden teaching. So we're going to get
into a little bit of like what the past has
said as in regards of trying to explain what's really
going on here. All right, So firstly, of course you

(17:09):
got to go back to ancient Egypt. This is cometic mysticism.
So this is in Comet, right, I think this was
This must have been after according to the story, this
must have been after Thoth came to Commet, all right,
because he like he uh, you know, established something over there.
Then he went away for a long time, and they

(17:30):
regressed whenever he came back. And so whenever he came back,
he went to Comet, and that's whenever he started doing
all the teachings and all the all that kind of
shit again, So this would be the updated Egyptian you
know lore. So the physical world is a reflection of
the unseen spiritual realm called the Duat. So this is
according to ancient Egypt. So the Egyptians believe that all

(17:53):
matter was manifested from the Ka, which is your vital essence,
and the Ba, which is your soul or your consciousness.
So the Kaba, the Ka and Ba, right, which is
I believe probably where the.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Kabbala comes from. Yeah, you know, probably their.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
God Patah, Patah Ptah. I'm terrible at you know, saying
these words, but uh, their god Patah created the world
by thought and word, a mind based creation myth nearly
identical to the logos anosticism. And in John chapter first,
John chapter one which said in the beginning was the word,

(18:34):
so basically trying to say the same exact thing the Egyptians.
We're talking about that shit, right, It's all kind of
one story. The Temple initiates were taught that the physical
realm is the shadow of the higher planes, and the
purpose of life was to awaken and remember the divine
essence behind the illusion of form, to awaken to the

(18:55):
to not only awaken, but to awaken and remember the
divine essence behind the illusion.

Speaker 5 (19:02):
And you see it, right, I feel like everything that
you experience, everything that you see, is through some sort
of filter. I feel like that filter would be the shadow,
the shadow of your your interpretation of everything.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (19:15):
It's definitely not the objective truth of the matter. You know,
it's all based off of all of your previous experiences
and then all of a sudden, that's what forms the
image that you get. You know, not that your thought
is physically changing the physical reality, but how you experience.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
It, right, right?

Speaker 1 (19:34):
And also I did want to say I can't remember
if I finished the sentiment earlier about the reason why
we're doing this is actually we're going to be going
Me and Sean are going to be doing an episode
with Jacob on the Cult of Conspiracy here soon on
Friday night. I don't know, that'll be coming out next
week sometime, but whenever we do that, it's going to
be to try and show the consciousness precedes material reality,

(19:58):
because Jacob believes it is a known fact that it
is a truth that physicality comes first and then everything
else comes next. And I was like, hmm, all right,
let's let's play baby.

Speaker 5 (20:12):
And I feel like, to be honest with you, I
feel like both realities of that would be just completely unknowable.
You know, obviously there's no way for us to go
back and say, okay, let's go all the way back
to the beginning. If there was a beginning and see
if there was consciousness just kind of residing there before
everything really started.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well people ever know that. But well that's the beauty
about this, at least what the ancient Egyptians were saying,
that the purpose of life was to awaken and remember,
so maybe that's how it was kind of tapped into
you know, maybe it was some kind of oh what
is the.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
Library called, oh, the ACAHK the.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Acask records, right, and and then of course there's the
Library of Alexandria and stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
But like the and Eve even still real quick, I'm
so sorry. I don't mean you often, You're good, But
even still, even if even in the religious sense, you know,
before there was physical there was God? Right, was God unconscious?
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, I don't know how unconscious is birthed from conscious?

Speaker 5 (21:17):
Right, Yeah, I don't know. So I'm saying like, even
even in through that frame, even through that lens, consciousness
was still a thing, you know, because I would believe
that God was conscious when he created everything.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
And also, you know, I just kind of want to
throw it out there too, Like the idea of something
being unconscious doesn't mean that it doesn't have any conscious
at all. It's just more that it's in a more
relaxed kind of state. Right, So I always say this, like, dude,
I don't know, maybe up until I was like twenty five,
I dude, I was so bluepilled to everything, Like the

(21:56):
illusion really got a hold of me, and I was
doing everything that the illusion wanted me to do, right,
I mean I was partying, I was drinking, I was smoking,
I was getting down with a lot of things. And
you know, it was like not necessarily the right way
to live because I was not living in accordance to
call it God's will or call it the you know,
the the universal Mind's will or conscious is higher will

(22:18):
or something like that. Yeah, totally reactionary there at that point. Yeah, animalistic, yeah,
you know. So yeah, so now we're going to go
to so we touched on the Egyptians. Now we're going
to get to the in within gnosticism. So this is
early Christian mysticism. Rip to all them. Fortunately they were
smart enough to be able to, you know, hide away

(22:40):
one of the the Nagamadi and somebody thrond it in
the forties. So, but the the core idea of Gnosissism
is that the material world is false creation, a distortion
of divine consciousness. The Gnostics called the world kenoma, literally
translating to the void, which is a counterfeit to the pleroma,

(23:04):
which is the realm of fullness. Or it's it's pure
mind and pure light. Holy shit, some timierge. Shit, man,
that's where demiurge comes from.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Is nacisism, you know.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
And speaking of the Demiurge, the Demiurge, a blind cosmic architect,
created the physical world believing himself to be God, but
he was only shaping illusion from divine fragments. And so
for Gnostics, the human body and material existence are veils
and awakening or nosis means realizing that you are a

(23:37):
spark of the true God trapped in a dream world. Hmm.

Speaker 5 (23:42):
That's interesting, man, I mean it, really, dude. We are
the creators of our own illusions.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
You know.

Speaker 5 (23:47):
We decide really what we want to believe in, what
we if we want to believe that, you know, we're
full of shit, or that we're not worthy or whatever,
that's just another illusion, you know that we are creating,
Like Jonathan isn't creating an illusion for me to believe that,
you know? And so that comes from inside you, bro.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
How is it that as soon as I say, the
demiurge super market shows up, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Isn't that crazy? That's wild divine timing.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Good sir, and also, welcome super it's been a minute. Yeah,
good to see you, bud. So, yeah, that's a little
bit as far as gnosticism goes. And then we're gonna
get into what the Greeks and Neoplatonists thought about the
The idea of this reality being kind of just a
dream nothing more, is that the material world is a

(24:39):
shadow of the ideal forms within the divine mind. So
there's three examples of this. You have Plato's allegory of
the cave, which everybody knows that basically the humanity lives
chained watching shadows on a wall, making illusion for truth.
You know, they're they're mistaking illusion for truth, so that

(25:00):
that's the allegory of the cave. Then you have Plato's
theory of forms, which means, uh, physical things are imperfect
reflections of perfect mental archetypes yep, which it does make
a lot of sense. And then of course our favorite,
which is Platinus who turned it into Neoplatonism New Platonism,

(25:22):
which says that the physical universe emanates from the One,
the source of all consciousness. So the closer you are
to matter, the more illusory things appear. The closer you
are to the One, the more real mmm.

Speaker 5 (25:38):
Like, for example, the closer you are to that highest
state of consciousness in a meditation versus you know, you
feeling like you didn't get that new car you wanted
and being all bummed out, you know what I'm saying, Like,
that's kind of like how you can look at that
in just in the physical.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, dude. So that's a little bit on Nassism. The
next one, and this is just kind of a gloss
over and then we're gonna get to the nitty gritty, okay.
Next next you have the Kabbala, which is Jewish mysticism.
The core idea within the Kabbala is that the physical
realm is the lowest vibrational emanation of divine consciousness. How
are they all saying the same thing? I mean different

(26:18):
parts of the world, dude, not only different parts of
the world. You're talking about different centuries. These things are
being talked about, right, And this is actually what kind
of bothers me about whenever somebody even says, oh, you're
you're into that new age, woo woo, I'm like, none
of this is new, Like this is some of the
most ancient shit out there. You know.

Speaker 5 (26:37):
It's like that couch you bought from Goodwill. It's like
it's new to you, you know what I mean, But
that couch has been around for a minute.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
I just bought a uh you know, I just bought
a truck, and and I felt weird saying that I
bought a new truck because it's a two thousand and three.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
You know what I mean, it's new to me.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah right, So so yeah, a little bit on the
Kabbala you have of the tree of life, which we
can show. I guess I can pull it up here
real quick. Which is the einsof I believe is how
you say it, i'in soft or i's sof. Yeah, it's
I mean, you know what, the tree of life. This
is just the the the Jewish version of said tree.

(27:18):
So let me pull it up here there we go.
All right, So within the tree of life, which is
pretty interesting looking actually, and you'll actually see this this
symbol a lot, like you'll see it all over the
place once you see it for the first time kind
of thing. It's it's pretty damn cool. So let me
show you right here. Here you go, So you have

(27:39):
the tree of life right here. Essentially, well, this is
the terot version, but you get it. I mean, it's
it's the shape, is what I'm talking about. Here's the
actual tree of life at least you know what they
talk about. So, and it's interesting about how these these
kind of patterns just weirdly repeat themselves in life, you
know that. That's I felt like whenever I saw that
for the first time, I was like, oh, I saw

(28:00):
that somewhere.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
Else, you know, mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
But the idea is that the physical realm is the
lowest vibrational emanation of the divine consciousness. So the tree
of life's lowest spear. So the one at the bottom
is called malcouth, which represents the material world. It's literally
called the kingdom. But also the illusion of separation.

Speaker 6 (28:22):
Hmm.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
That's that thing, dude, that we all feel when something
happens or like a synchronousy or that's that thing that
you can't quite articulate, but you can make a painting,
you know, and kind of like try to encompass that
feeling of whatever that is, like that's that tree of life.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
But I find it interesting about how literally it talks
about how the physical world is the Kingdom. But it's
also known as the illusion of separation because it's the
farthest from the source, farthest from the one, farthest from God.
And so therefore the Kabbalah is almost looking at even
the you know, our connection to God in a very
neoplaton you know kind of ideology, which is pretty interesting.

(29:03):
So everything originates from the einsoft ainsf. I don't know
how the Jews say it, but so the einsoft so
everything originates from it, which is the infinite, the unmanifest
consciousness beyond form, that nothing exists necessarily outside of it,
right at least how they have that build The goal

(29:24):
of the mystic is Oh, so if you're initiated within
the kabbala then the goal is to cun olam, which
is to repair the fragmented illusion and reunite all things
with source light. Oh it's literally your job like that, right,
which is pretty freaking better.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
Great, yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
So, and we're gonna do a little a little bit
more of a deep dive on the kabala here one
of these days because we bring it up another And
nextly we're going to have Christian mysticism and Hermetic Christianity,
which I didn't even was a thing, but oh okay,
pretty pretty sweet. So the idea of heaven is within.
The core idea of that would be that that that

(30:07):
heaven is within, it's not outside or physical. So they
take quotes from Jesus, Uh, my kingdom is not of
this world. The Kingdom of God is within you. And
this is it's kind of implying that this reality is
not the ultimate reality.

Speaker 5 (30:22):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Then you have the early Hermetic Christians blended christ teachings
with Platonic and Egyptian thought, as above, so below, as within,
so without right, yep, the old Hermetic axiom. Then you
have the Gospel of Philip out of the Nagamadi that
says that the world came into being through a mistake,

(30:44):
for he who created it wanted it to be imperishable,
but it was not so. M.

Speaker 5 (30:51):
That's a while okay, Yeah, I've never heard of that.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah. So basically to say that matter is seen as
a temporary dream within the divine mind, meant for the
soul to awakened through experience. M.

Speaker 5 (31:03):
I mean, it definitely is a temporary thing. You know,
none of us are gonna live forever, at least not
in this body.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
But I think that the idea is to awaken while
you're in the dream, right, is what they're at least
what they were trying to say. Then, of course you
have Daoism. We have a few more here. So you
have Daoism, which we've talked about. But the idea Behinddaoism
is that the world of form is transient and unreal,
and only the Tao is real. So Lao Zoo in

(31:31):
the Taudi or the dowdy ching said the world is
a dream, the Doao.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Alone is real.

Speaker 5 (31:40):
Quite the quote.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
So it says the dow is the unseen source that
manifests the ten thousand things, yet remains beyond them. Trying
to control or attached to form leads to illusion. Flow
with the Doo, and you glimpse reality beyond duality.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
Oh, that's cool, man, that's cool. I mean, look, think
about it, like consciousness is trying to attach to form,
you know what I'm saying. Like, we can't be here
without without consciousness. We can't experience anything without consciousness.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
And I feel like dogs and all the different animals
and everything else, consciousness had to attach to them, you know,
to a form. And I feel like a lot of
this was, you know, pretty easily accessible before you had
all of the worldly distractions. You know, everybody has a
phone in their pocket, you know, if I there's no
such thing as boredom anymore, you know, because boredom was

(32:31):
usually the time for contemplation, and now you don't necessarily
have that. It doesn't mean that you're not going to
have time to contemplate. I mean I find myself contemplating
while I'm watching a movie or while I'm listening to music.
It just totally zoning out and thinking about this or whatever. Right,
But most of these things are distractions.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
So whenever you see something pop up in.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
The news, or you know, your your favorite music artist
just release a new song or whatever the case may be,
it's it's literally magnetizing you back into the illusion itself.

Speaker 5 (33:02):
Wow. Yeah, man, yeah, work, we can't. We can't listen
to music or anything like that. And so that's all
I do at work. Most of what I what I
do at work, I can do without thinking about it,
and so I just I'm physically doing something, but I'm
just thinking all day long. Dude. Sometimes it's can be
too much.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah, it definitely can be. You can get into some dark.

Speaker 5 (33:21):
Corners up there, Yeah you can.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
So that was a little bit on Daoism. Now we're
gonna go to Sufism. Sufiism, which is Islamic mysticism. We
always bring up Rumy, right, So the idea around Sufism
is that the world is a mirror through which God
contemplates himself.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
Oh fuck wow.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
So the Sufi masters, like a Robbie and Rumy taught
that creation is is what they would call tajali, which
is a divine self disclosure, not some separate thing. Yes, yes, dude,
a self disclosure. So that means no matter who you

(34:04):
try and proselytize to, if you're not getting the message,
you're defeating the purpose. And also, like you know, I
understand now, like why when the student is ready, the
teacher will come.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Now like it's because the teacher is not trying to
tell teach the student something that he's not ready for, right,
and and not everybody is even a student, let alone inquisitive.
So it's like, you know, the the teacher is why
is beyond his ways. He's not going to waste his
breath to something that's going to go in through one
ear and out the.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
Other, right exactly. That's perfect.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
So yeah, so, oh, here we go.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Roomy had a quote here he goes, this place is
a dream only a sleeper considers it real. Dude, That's
so true. Was awesome shit, Dude, every time it's a
is that they viewed life as a veil. Every face,
every event, every star was just a reflection of the Beloved,

(35:06):
which you know they called They called it the Beloved,
which is basically God's consciousness. Right, dude, we need to
do a little bit more on Roomy and Sufism because
that ship is deep. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (35:20):
I think I'm gonna need a little four Aco trip
after this episode.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Man, Yeah, I did. Let's go under the rabbit hole baby.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Then of course you have hermeticism and the Kabalion, which, dude,
it might be time give it a couple more months,
we're gonna do a whole another episode on the Kabalion.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
Because it's it's my favorite. I'm just gonna say it, dude,
it's my favorite. Every every part about that, like the
Hermitic principles of all of that. Man, it's just so
I don't know, It's just it just makes so much sense,
you know.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
And it's written by the three Initiates.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Which makes it legit obviously, you know what I mean,
you gotta believe it.

Speaker 5 (35:54):
They don't even want credit, you know. It's just like,
if you're ready for.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
It, we're three people that know some we want to
tell you.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Read this. So, within the Kabbalian and Hermeticism, the core
idea is that the all is mind and the universe
is mental. Everything you perceive, from stars to atoms, exist
in the mental field of the all. Physical reality is
a mental projection, like a lucid dream, created by the

(36:22):
infinite consciousness that imagines it. So the key to mastery
is by understanding the illusion. Once you understand the illusion,
you can manipulate it through will, vibration, and correspondence. I mean,
you're gonna be stuck here either way. You may as
well just you know, kind of have your way with it.

Speaker 5 (36:42):
To say that, you know, all is mental isn't even
crazy to me, you know what I'm saying, Like that
just makes too much sense. Like there's a reason why
there are so many different religions in every one of
them believes that it's the absolute truth.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
You know. They're not just sitting there thinking like, ah,
maybe it's true, maybe it's not. Like no, that that's
that's reality for them, you know, and their mind led
them to that. Hell yeah, dude, I'll look at the
white Boy Wizard sharing me some sharing some pizza. Oh nice,
and so meats up pizza with alfredo instead of red sauce.
I'm very jealous of that. I'm on keto right now.
It's like, hey, I've lost like almost thirteen pounds on

(37:20):
keto in like shit in nine days though, So that's
pretty sweet. No exercise in nine days, nine days, Yeah,
thirteen pounds. I mean, it's just it's basically like strict keto.
I mean, I'm eating mostly meat every day, but I'm
also getting into the sauna for like thirty minutes a day,
which is sweet. Just one of those those cheap what
is those Chinese websites? Where you can order like real

(37:42):
cheap shit from Sauna Timu. Yeah, like something like that.
I think it was like, I don't know, sixty bucks
or something like that. But dude, those things are legit.
But anyhow, onto the indigenous and the shamanic traditions. So
the core idea behind that is that the dream world is.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
The true world.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Mmmm. Okay, that's another in another place. Uh supermarket said, yeah, buddy,
I dropped thirty. I dropped thirty during carnivore.

Speaker 5 (38:10):
Hell yeah, pretty legit too. And you wouldn't think so
you would think that eating just meat would be like
really bad for you. But for whatever reason, man, I
I was very regular and I was losing weight like crazy,
so yeah, and I felt strong, dude, So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
It's And that's something that I really kind of figured
out too, is that you know, like, uh, basically, the
the root of all of our problems is uh, you know,
found in the pancreas. You know what I'm saying, like,
because you know, that's why diabetics are diabetics because they
can't properly you know, create you know, the the regulated
sugar levels with insulin and you know, and shiit like that.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
But like.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Every single carb that breaks down turns into sugar, which
then is you know, kind of filtered through the pancreas.
And so the ideas that you want to be able
to like cleanse through at pancreas and you know, then
you're gonna have higher levels of metabolism and you'll lose
weight a lot faster, and and it's pretty crazy. So
whenever you're on like a carnivore diet, there really ain't

(39:11):
ship the pancreas is really doing anyway for it, right,
It's just going through its regular process. So that's that's great. Yeah,
it works. I can't do full on carnivore though I
love vegetables, you.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
Know, YEA.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Needs a mushrooms buying steak and chicken like that. It
is just you know, plus I.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Need my Keto pizzas.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Those things are a life stack because it kind of
feels like you're cheating, you know.

Speaker 5 (39:38):
The best thing that's the best thing about Keto is
every meal that you're eating, you're like, oh, you feel
like you're getting away with something.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
I know.

Speaker 5 (39:44):
Yeah, like, oh I'm gonna lose weight after eating this, Okay,
what I'm.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Gonna I got? I can eat as like a rack
of ribs and lose weight. That's kind of crazy. Yeah,
white Boy Wizard said, killing it my deer deer in
elk raw milk and chicken eggs. Cleanest eating of my
life the last five years or so. When I branch
out of this freaking makes me sluggish, It really does, dude.
Like tomorrow, I'm not even looking forward tomorrow like I am,

(40:09):
but for another reason, tomorrow is my grandma's birthday. She's
turning seventy six, right, and so we're gonna be going
out to an Italian restaurant and good luck, you know
what I mean. It's like and this place is supposed
to be from what I hear, it makes all of
Garden look like great value.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
So oh, I'm sure as soon as you're done eating
that though, your face is just gonna feel like.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Oh, nap time, thoughts of suicide, all the things. Yeah, yeah,
it's not fun. So anyway, all right, look, let's get
back to it now. So the indigenous and shamanic traditions
is the idea behind it is that the dream world
is the true world. And obviously there's a bunch of
indigenous cultures all around the world. We always just normally

(40:53):
associate with the American ones, but I mean, dude, the
Australian Aboriginal, that's some shit that you can look into.
And what they're really most popular, at least what people
bring up most about them is the Australian Aboriginal dream time.
So the dream time says, or it says, that the

(41:14):
physical world is a shadow that is cast by the
timeless dreaming consciousness that shapes and sustains matter. Oh wow,
sounds kind of dark, dude. These are people that didn't
evolve in the way that you know, modern day humans did.
They stayed with nature and they're still Aboriginal out in

(41:36):
Australia right, Like, they're still working with nature on behalf
of nature, you know, like in accordance with nature. And
so this is what they're saying, is that the physical
world is a shadow that is cast by the timeless
dreaming consciousness, which.

Speaker 5 (41:50):
Makes sense, dude.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah. And then of course you have the Native American
and the and the Amazonian Shamans that say that waking
life is the dream of the Great Spirit and that
plant medicine journeys helped pierce the veil to the real
world beyond form. Ah wow.

Speaker 5 (42:09):
Yeah, I mean, of course it was.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
I I correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't aahuasca
that's that's in the Amazon, isn't it. Oh? I'm not sure, dude,
not sure.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
I think they do like a lot of plant ceremonies
out there.

Speaker 5 (42:21):
White Boy Wizard says, yes.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I thought so. Yeah, pretty sweet. Yeah,
I'm kind of scared to do ayahuasca. But I dude, I.

Speaker 5 (42:31):
Can't imagine a long time.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
I just can't imagine tripping that hard for that long. Like,
there's only so much I can handle, you know. I mean,
I'm sure everybody can handle it, but I feel like.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
I don't need that. You know, I got I got
a little taste of it already.

Speaker 5 (42:46):
Yeah, dude, when the student is ready, right.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
I mean, who knows. Maybe whenever I'm like sixty five
years old, I'm like, dude, I'm ready to get the
fuck out of here. You know, it's time to it's
time to turn the page. I might convince myself, you
know what, whatever, I'll try it.

Speaker 5 (42:59):
You know that's gonna happen at that point.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Next thing, I know, I'm running around the woods all
buck naked talking about this. I don't know our Lord
pleady and afpliating or whatever.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
You know.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
It's like, yeah, dude, there's a really old guy just
running around naked, screaming and crying.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
Yeah, it's strange.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
It's sadness. It's tears of sadness and joy at the
same time.

Speaker 5 (43:21):
Had a smile on his face though, So it's just
very strange.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
He's all sweaty. White boy wizard said, come with me
to do ibogain treatment. I'm gonna take your word for
it on that one. I hear great things.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I really do.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Hear a lot of great things about ib again. But
uh yeah, I would love to hear the story on
some real ship. I would love to hear what your
experience is like. Are you planning on doing that pretty
like anytime soon?

Speaker 7 (43:46):
Yeah, I mean I was, but because of having to
stay in South Dakota a little bit longer to finish
these houses, I'm probably gonna have to wait till like
the early part of next year because I got my
elk cut coming up, and I got my couple other
things that I've already you know, committed myself to before

(44:08):
Christmas time, so I don't think I'll find some But
either way, I mean I'll keeping a loop, but I'm
definitely gonna like document the whole thing, like make the
thing out of it, because all all the main aspects
that it helps with, like you know, brain trauma, like
physical injuries, depression, and then opiate addiction like those three

(44:32):
things plus alcohol. It's like the four things that it's
the best for, and I have three of those, so.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I don't know, it should be good and.

Speaker 7 (44:40):
I'll document all of it.

Speaker 5 (44:42):
Definitely, absolutely, definitely, dude.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Yeah, it's freaking awesome.

Speaker 5 (44:49):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yeah, I would love to hear about that.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
That would be I'd love to just hear a good
report from you that. So, yeah, we were talking about
the Native American and Amazonian Shamans. Next we have the Lakota,
which I believe are another indigenous I'm not sure where from,
but the Lakota term which is called wakan Tanka it

(45:16):
means the great mystery. Oh that must be American one,
I think. But it's called the great mystery, the unseeable mind,
beyond the illusion of form.

Speaker 6 (45:26):
Hmm.

Speaker 5 (45:27):
Okay, and you can see why, you know that someone
could even look at that and go, well, that's God,
you know, the unseeable mind.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, the white Boy Wizard said that from the Dakotas
in Minnesota, which makes sense, Lakota. Yeah, they both got
the Odas in there. So next, of course, you have
modern science, and dude, there's this other thing which is idealism, which, dude,
it's another rabbit hole we're gonna have to dig down.
But so, the core idea behind modern modern science is

(46:00):
that consciousness, well, some modern science. You can't say all
science whenever it comes to this.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
You know, I don't agree.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Quantum physics and regular physics don't tend to agree on
a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
They're getting there, you know.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
But the idea, at least according to quantum physics and
stuff like that, is that consciousness, not matter, is fundamental, right,
meaning that it is the foundational reality of which everything
else comes from.

Speaker 5 (46:26):
And for some reason, dude, I don't know, to me,
that just sounds way cooler, you know, it doesn't It
sound way cooler that consciousness is just this eternal thing
that's just like hanging out, you know, and then all
of a sudden something that is susceptible to garnering something
from that. It's like, oh okay, and then they just
kind of come together, you know, I don't know, it

(46:46):
just sounds cooler.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Well, you have quantum physicists like Max Planck and Eugene
Wigner that said that consciousness this is a wild quote,
but they say that consciousness is the matrix from which
matter arises, which is kind of what we're alluding to
this entire episode so far. Right.

Speaker 5 (47:05):
Wow, Wow, And you have to play on that for
a few hours.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah, I mean, this isn't like and I know that
some people don't necessarily respect the Shamans and the gurus
and the sages and the mystics of old and even
now even the you know, modern day philosophers, ancient philosophers,
they tend to kind of sideswipe that. But whenever you
bring in actual scientists, quantum physicists that are saying that
that consciousness is the matrix from which matter arises from,

(47:34):
that's completely backwards from everything that we thought.

Speaker 5 (47:37):
I want to have someone on, someone like that that
believes that that is studying this stuff and doing the
numbers and really, you know, I would like to have
someone on like that and just kind of pick their
brain and see what that What does that really mean
to you?

Speaker 1 (47:50):
You know, means that life is but a dream. My
good sir, I like it. So then you have idealist
philosophers such as George Berkeley and Donald Hoffmann that claim
that the physical world is an interface generated by consciousness,
not its cause, so basically saying the same thing, that

(48:11):
the physical world is an interface that is generated by consciousness,
not the other way around. And then in digital.

Speaker 5 (48:18):
Physics, digital physics, physics.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Oh okay, like quanta, like computing. So in digital physics,
the universe is a simulation of information, meaning that it's
mental at its core.

Speaker 5 (48:33):
Mm hmm, all right, I dig it, I dig it.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
And so basically the common thread across all of them
is that every mystical, initiatory and philosophical path ultimately converges
on this idea, which is that reality is a dream
within the infinite mind.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
M M. I'm on board, man, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (48:54):
Like I said, we're not going to be able to
prove one way or the other, at least not us
at least not now, you know. But that's so much
cooler to look at it that way and just say,
you know what, I'm gonna just run that through the lens.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
That is my consciousness. Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing,
and that's why, you know, I believe that that is
probably the foundational truth behind free will is that you
make something that is so infinite and cannot be contained
in any one way that you can have a million

(49:27):
or a billion, or a trillion or multi trillions of
people coming up with their own definition of what God
or what the universe or what the source is, and
they're all kind of right, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
And it doesn't even have to be that they're right
or wrong. It's that they one hundred percent believe it,
you know. And then, like I said, if you believe
in something that that much, dude, that is your reality.
And then on top of that, you have the capacity
to learn new information evolve, and then all of a
sudden you're like, Okay, well maybe that doesn't really vibe

(50:02):
with what I feel. And then you find something else,
and now that is your complete reality. So your reality
literally changed.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Like completely, yes, yes, And that's the beauty about it
is that, you know, you have things like and I
can never remember this damn term, the sugar pill effect.
Placibo have things like the placebo effect where belief literally
creates healing, you know, And so there is something to
belief actually creating, right at least creating the world around

(50:34):
you that you perceive and you believe to be the
true nature of this reality. That if you can kind
of get on board that the sugar pill that you
just unknowingly took is actually going to cure your cancer
or grow your hair back, or I don't know, give
you regular boners or whatever it is. Right, Like, whatever
that is, that is your belief that was ultimately the

(50:57):
battery that powered that operation. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
Absolutely, even if it's only by a few percent, you
know what I mean. If you have that placebo effect
towards something positive in your mind that you're gonna do
something and you're gonna do it, well, then at least
it's something that's got your back. It's something that's behind you,
you know.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, it's a it's an extra little force
that you can carry along with you. Yeah. So then
I want to go over to this is an interesting article.
This is by Psychology Today. It says, is life a dream? Okay?

Speaker 2 (51:27):
So this age old.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Philosophical puzzle is more than an idle question. It's almost
like you can't prove it or unprove it. But and
that's why That's why I think it's most of this
shit is unprovable, like in the physical reality, which I
love how this is designed in the first place, you know,
because it leads a little credence to each individual must

(51:52):
find out on their own. There is nobody that can
tell you what the truth is. You have to experience
it because it is too experience. It is to go
beyond words.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Is to go.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
It's to go. It's to go beyond it touching it
and smelling it and tasting it and feeling it, like
to go beyond that that. There is no words for
it other than just to experience it. That's why most people.
You know, Nick hit me up a couple like like
two weeks ago and he was like, you know, he
did a d MT trip and he was trying to
figure out what was the proper amount of DMT to do.

(52:25):
I was like, you're savage, but he did a.

Speaker 5 (52:28):
Void amount because just stay away from that amount.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
I know, I know, right, And it's crazy because he
had a void you know experience too. But but you know,
whenever he went in there and he was trying to explain,
like he sent me a video of like a moment's
after he came up out of that DMT trip and
he's just smiling and he's laughing and he's giggling, and
you can see that he's just so vibrant and full

(52:53):
of life, right because he was able to experience whatever
that is, but there was no words that he could use, right, Yeah,
I bet. And so that's that's the beautiful thing about
the nature of reality is that it can't be easily defined.

Speaker 5 (53:09):
Well, that's what makes a lot of this so difficult, man,
you know, like, oh, just talk about it, talk about
the thing that's it's just unspeakable. You can't.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
I mean, in my opinion, that's why Jesus spoke in
parables in the first place, because there is no like
definite way to speak of it. You know, you can
only kind of say it's like this, it's like that
kind of you know. And that's why, dude, I've been
saying for a while that I think that this whole
thing is a fucking dream. And uh I think that

(53:39):
was because of the DMT trip it, to be honest.

Speaker 5 (53:41):
Yeah, a little influence there, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Uh So.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
One of these strange things about dreams is that most
of the time we aren't aware that we're dreaming. Typically,
our memory and our reflective ability are substantially limited within dreams,
causing us to causing us not to notice incongruencies within
the dream and to take for granted that what we
experience is real. It simply doesn't occur to us to

(54:07):
consider whether it might not be. That is crazy, you
know that while you're in the dream, you don't even
think to you don't even think to think if this
is not real?

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Mm hmmm, yeah, which is kind of but that's something
that we can do in the physical reality. We can
sit here and ponder and go is this a dream?
Is this not real? But you can't do that in
a dream for the most part.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
But here's the crazy thing, though, is that even within reality,
you're still going to be like going back to sleep occasionally.
You know, it's only in those moments where you're you know,
thinking about it that you become aware of it. You know,
like it's it's amazing that awareness is what brings you
up out of this illusion in the first place. And
if you only had a little bit of awareness, you

(54:51):
would become lucid in the dream. It's the same thing, really, yep, absolutely, yeah,
So it says perhaps even more strangely, even when we do,
on occasion become away that we're dreaming, And according to
various surveys carried out around the world, anywhere from twenty
six percent to ninety two percent, it's pretty wide range
of people have had at least one lucid dream. It says,

(55:12):
the sensory experiences of the dream can remain just as
convincingly real. I remember, in one of my own dreams,
realizing that it was a dream, and then marveling at
how solid and real the cell phone in my hand
still felt.

Speaker 5 (55:25):
Wow, indiscernible, Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
The ability to the ability of the dream world to
appear real has led many thinkers philosophers such as Renee
Discartes Discards Anyway, being the most prominent Western example, to
wonder whether the world we experience while awake might itself
be a dream. If the dream world feels just as

(55:50):
real as the waking one, at least while we're in it,
how can we know for sure that we're not currently
living in a dream, a dream for which we may
one day wake up. One way that philosophers have tried
to dispel such worries is by appealing to differences between
the dream world and the waking one. For instance, our
waking world has a coherence that the dream world often lacks.

(56:11):
You may recall that in the feature film Inception All
you already know when they bring Inception, that the characters
learn to recognize that they're dreaming by asking themselves how
they came to be in a certain situation and then
realizing that they can't remember because the dream just dropped them.

Speaker 5 (56:28):
There just started, right.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
But does the coherence of our waking world guaranteed that
it's real? I believe that the coherence of our waking
world does give us evidence that it is not merely
a figment of our imagination. Specifically, it gives us evidence
that when we are awake, something is causing our experience
that is independent of the experience itself. For instance, the

(56:51):
relative permanence of the objects and environments we experience in
waking life would appear to be best explained by there
being something real and enduring the that our experiences are reflecting. However,
the relative permanence of the objects and environments we encounter
in the waking world is no guarantee that the waking
world is as real as it gets. After all, a

(57:12):
high degree of permanence is also found in the worlds
of video games, in which the environments and the objects
that one interacts with are merely the creations of computer code.
So while perceived permanence does seem to point to there
being something objective or enduring out there, the true nature
of whatever is quote unquote out there might resemble our

(57:35):
experience of it as little as computer code resembles the
images when we see the images we see when playing
a video game, which is a pretty good point. You know,
there's always a save state in a video game.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
See it's real, I saved it, and I can go
back to it, right.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:52):
It's funny though, going off of that inception reference. You know,
the character realizes that they're in the dream because they
don't remember what happened before this, how they got there.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
And I feel like if you scale that up.

Speaker 5 (58:04):
And rewind several billions of years or however long, you know,
we we don't know how we got here. We don't
know how it all started. Sure there's books that claim
certain things, but we don't really know.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
I mean, you don't even have to scale it back
billions of years, scale it back up until a couple
of moments before you were.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Born, right, you know what I mean? Like where were
you you had to exist?

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Right? Well?

Speaker 5 (58:29):
I mean yeah, I guess on the individual level. But
then to say that would would be to say that
I'm the only one existing and all of you are
just in my dream.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Well you know, I mean that is the nature of
your reality that you experience on a daily basis, though
you don't experience anybody else's perception, right for sure, So
to the individual, it would be that way, right for sure.
So yeah, yeah, so you have the senses interact with it. Okay,
So this means that there is in fact an Oh

(59:00):
That's that's all I wanted to say. Speaking of whenever
you go and save a game, whether you're on a
game boy or a PlayStation or an Xbox or your
computer or your phone or whatever, whenever you save a
game and then you know, maybe you close out the
app or you turn off the system or whatever, and
then you go make yourself a sandwich, or you go
to sleep or whatever, right, and and you come back

(59:20):
in that game is exactly.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
Where you left it, right yep.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
That's very similar to like going to sleep is kind
of like your save state, right you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (59:32):
Right, you go to sleep in your bed, and then
you wake up in your bed, everything is still as
it was as soon as you went to.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Sleep, exactly where you left it.

Speaker 5 (59:40):
You know, I mean, unless the illion of time passing,
as if it's not just an eternal now you.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Know, Yes, yeah it is.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Man, I love this kind of shit. But anyhow, so
it says, this means that there is in fact an
important sense in which all of us do constantly live
within a dream, that is, within a world created by
our own minds. It's just that when we're when we're awake,
our minds conform conform our dreaming to a reliable set
of patterns, which we assume to be determined by a

(01:00:11):
reality that exists independently of our experience of it, though
we have no way of knowing that reality, that reality,
except through the complex ways in which it affects our dream.
But might there be an even deeper sense in which
our waking life is a dream. Just as we often
wake from sleep to realize that we were that what

(01:00:33):
we were experiencing in the sleep state was not nearly
as coherent and real as what we experience when we awake.
Could there possibly be a day when we will emerge
from the dream of waking reality to experience a world
that is even more coherent and vividly real, a state
in which we experience levels of knowledge, memory, and other
cognitive function that vastly surpass those we experience in our

(01:00:55):
current lives.

Speaker 5 (01:00:57):
I mean, that's what people say they experience when they
have a near death experience. It was more real than this,
it was more vibrant. It was all of a sudden
that was merged with the one, and I knew all
there was to know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
You're on one. People are experiencing this, You're on one
because that's exactly what it's about to get to. So,
in fact, a rather startling number of people report having
already had experiences like this. That is, that they report
having had experiences that appear to them as even more
real than real than those that they have in their
normal waking state of mind. For example, Realer than real

(01:01:33):
is a description often used by those who have had
a near death experience, those who have used psychedelic drugs
such as DMT, and those who, by various other means,
have experienced non ordinary states of consciousness. Many near death
experiencers also report enhanced cognitive function and sudden increases in knowledge.

(01:01:53):
This perception of enhanced cognitive function and increased knowledge is
often dismissed as an illusion by those who are unfamiliar
with the scientific literature on near death experiences, but careful
investigation has shown that concrete, verifiable information has been obtained
in which states in these in these states which were
not available to the experiencer by the way of their

(01:02:16):
five senses, it says, the experience of those who have
tasted non ordinary states of consciousness raises the possibility that
the age old question of whether life is but a
dream or is the life is but a dream? Is
more than the idle worry of a few philosophers comfortably

(01:02:36):
esconced in their armchairs by the fire. The answer to
this question could very well have major empirical consequences, including
startling implications for the types of experiences that are available
to the human mind. We have every reason to stay
alert to this possibility as we continue to investigate the
true nature of the world that we take that we
take ourselves to be living in.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
It's pretty cool. The psychology today would get into that,
but you know, man.

Speaker 5 (01:03:04):
It makes sense, dude. The mind is is. I mean,
we've said it so many times, man, but it's just
so complex.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Man.

Speaker 5 (01:03:10):
You know, there's a reason why if you see a
snake and you freak out and you're like, you know,
someone's like, oh, just grab it and kind of just
put it over there away from the front door, You're like,
I'm not doing that, There's no way, and then someone
else can just come and grab it like it's nothing,
you know, and their reality is different than yours.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Yeah, yeah, it just is, you know, almost to say
that the nature of reality, the nature of our realities
are different.

Speaker 5 (01:03:37):
At that point, they definitely are right, absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
So basically what I'm saying is that there there can't
be any foundational like truth within that right outside of
the person that has the perception of a fear of this.

Speaker 5 (01:03:52):
Or a love of that, right exactly an objective truth.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Yes, this is a very interesting article that I was
super stoke to be able to read. This is from
another Seeker dot com. Dude, This one goes balls deep.
It says the primacy of consciousness exploring the nature of reality.
So it says, what if consciousness is not a byproduct
of the physical world, but instead the very foundation upon

(01:04:18):
which reality rests. The question fuels a profound debate spanning philosophy, psychology,
and modern physics. Thinkers like Bernardo Castrop which we're gonna
have a little bit more on him later, Donald Hoffman,
Frederico Faggin unfortunate last name, Yeah, and then Carl Jung

(01:04:38):
challenged the traditional view known as materialism, that matter exists
independently of the mind. Instead, they argue that consciousness may
be the bedrock of all existence. The idea resonates with
ancient spiritual traditions that have long taught mind or awareness
to be primary while matter is secondary. So today, modern

(01:04:58):
research in quantumacam and depth psychology supports the possibility that
consciousness shapes or even creates the phenomena we observe as reality. Yep,
that's interesting that you're talking about, Like the matter would
be the phenomena now, mm hmm, right, you know it,
matter is something that stems from, you know, the base

(01:05:21):
level reality, which would just be pure consciousness.

Speaker 5 (01:05:24):
What I think about, too, is that if this reality,
you know, the thing that we call reality, is simply
just a state of consciousness, right, and so everything above
this would just be the higher states of consciousness that
we aren't aware of yet. You know, you get into
theta or you're going to get into that meditative state

(01:05:45):
of mind, it's very different. You know, you feel different,
everything kind of shuts down or you know, you experience
everything so differently.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
But but there's.

Speaker 5 (01:05:53):
More, you know what I mean, Like this is just
the level that we've gotten to, but there's there's more
vastness to this, you know that we aren't we can't
even contemplate.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Which I mean, it makes sense now whenever you think
about like angels of light, right, and that's something that
like somebody, some people go back even looking at the
esoteric message behind angels, which all an angel is just
literally translates to the messenger. But they're always called angels
of light almost like you know, an angel could be

(01:06:28):
an angle of light, and if that angle of light
that you're perceiving is is giving you a message of
information at that point, and but it's always coming from
the light. You have light beings that you know, the
Pleaadeans and the Octarians and all of them, they're usually
all light beings, right, and just light in general, which
I would say probably supersedes not even probably it absolutely

(01:06:50):
would have to supersede material reality.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
So yeah, pretty strange.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
So anyhow, getting back to it below, we explore these
perspectives and consider how the notion of consciousness first could
shift our understanding of everything from brain function to the
nature of space and time. So, firstly, beyond materialism. Materialism
states that all phenomena, including consciousness, arise from physical matter. However,

(01:07:18):
growing evidence from consciousness studies, quantum physics, and psychology suggests
that this view may be incomplete. Bernardo Castrip highlights our
dashboard of experience is what he calls it. We don't
perceive reality directly, but rather see an interface or representation
that the consciousness constructs, much like a pilot sees instruments

(01:07:39):
instead of the sky itself, which kind of plays into
what Danny Geher was saying, Oh right, like literally, what
he's see is the interface, the dashboard that he's just
looking at, right.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
Right, instead of seeing all like the the diodes and
the current going through the wires and all of these
other things that are actually happening.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Yeah. Yeah, So the fundamental questions would be if the
brain alone creates consciousness, why do quantum experience experiments indicate
that observation itself can alter reality. And also why is
subjective experience, or the hard problem of consciousness so resistant
to purely physical explanations. These mysteries hint that mind might

(01:08:24):
be more fundamental than we assume. The observer effect and
quantum mechanics, for instance, implies that the act of measuring
or observing influences outcomes in ways of material only theory
struggles to explain. Mm hmm. Yeah. See, that's the thing.

Speaker 5 (01:08:38):
That's the one thing that I mean, no matter what
anybody says, that's one thing that just kind of shakes
you to your core. You know, when the physical reality
just doesn't hold up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
You know, it's just you know, the physical reality can
only take you so far. Right.

Speaker 5 (01:08:53):
But then but then I can say, okay, well, we
need our brain in order to perceive anything. In order
for us to even use consciousness. We're not just consciousness
like you know what I mean, We're not empty space
observing things. We need our mind in order to to
perceive you know what I'm saying. So like, if you

(01:09:15):
have the the perception of like a cat or something
like that, the reality of that situation, everything's going to
be so much more, so much different, you know, And
so I don't know unless I'm thinking about it wrong,
but I feel like we would still need the properties
or the the ability to process information as well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
I mean, I mean, so you're saying that basically, like, yeah,
consciousness has to be a real thing, but there needs
to be a uh there needs a medium, yeah, or
a vehicle vehicle and can come with.

Speaker 5 (01:09:48):
The brain, right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Okay, I'm happy you brought that up and we and
I'm gonna I'm gonna show you why that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
I don't know if that's.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Even necessary, you know, And we've talked about plenty of
other experiences, people having, you know, out of body experiences,
right like whenever you have an out of body experience
or a remote view, or you know, whenever people are sedated,
yet they're they're able, like there's literally no brain action
whenever they have the nodes hooked up to their brain,

(01:10:17):
right yet they come back with these crazy, magnificent, like
unspeakable stories, right Like, So that just goes to show,
at least for me, that consciousness does not only have
to reside in within not only the body, but not
on not even only the brain. I think that it's
most likely that we kind of just have what others

(01:10:39):
have said that you know, consciousness. We all have like
our own conscious bubbles, so to say, like picture like
bubble boy, you know what I mean, just like or
Glenda the Goodwitch or whatever, right, like that is our
uric field, our consciousness field in that sense, and that
you know, your consciousness goes for a walk every time
you dream, every time you go to sleep, right. And
so that's obviously you know, I don't want to say

(01:11:01):
obviously because I'm sure that dreams are measurable you know,
by the brain. Right. But there are other examples of
you know, perfect example isn't near dead experience.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
I mean, they're fucking literally dead.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
They're dead, right, You're dead, sure, you know what I mean.
There's there is no activity that is going on in
the brain right as far as you know, I was
gonna say, as far as the person that is observing
the person that's laying there, you know, completely unconscious and dead,
they are to assume that they've just gone on to
another realm, which they actually are, you know, which is
kind of crazy. But how is it that they can

(01:11:35):
be absolutely brain dead for a few minutes and yet
they come back with an experience with a memory, with
a feeling, and usually they come back with some fucking
kind of superpowers think about David Ditchfield.

Speaker 5 (01:11:45):
Right right, yeap, or or knowledge of some conversation that
happened two floors up, you know, not even in the
same hallway or anything like that. It's like, and I
believe that. I believe that when people have those experiences,
I believe they experienced that. And so yeah, I just
I get caught up in the But how you know, like,
how does your consciousness is it like, like you said,

(01:12:06):
a bubble or you know, an aura of your consciousness
that's kind of just echoing the the you, the the
I am right of of yourself until it merges. If
you don't come back from the dead, then it just
then merges with the rest of all energy and the source.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Well you just go back home.

Speaker 5 (01:12:26):
I know, right, And that's why it's familiar.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Which, by the way, stay tuned until the end of
the episode, because we're going to tie in literally salvation into.

Speaker 5 (01:12:38):
The end of this episode, right, Okay, for.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
Lack of a better term, to be saved, right.

Speaker 5 (01:12:44):
I need to be saved man, And look even.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
And looking at that term esoterically, which will it's it's
it's going to help you grow some hair on your chest.
I just say that is the hot sauce of mysticism,
like it is crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Frank's red hot.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
I put that shit on. So all right, So you
have idealism versus materialism. So materialism says that matter exists
on its own, with consciousness emerging as a byproduct of
physical processes in the brain, which is boring and nobody likes.

Speaker 5 (01:13:19):
It's boring. Yeah, it sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Then you have idealism, which it's very it's close to
like pansychism, which which is what we just recently covered
that basically everything is consciousness is it's another verse, it's
another way of saying idealism. So idealism says that consciousness
is primary in physical objects and worlds arise within or

(01:13:42):
because of a universal mind. M okay. So classical science
is classical science has benefited from a materialistic approach for centuries,
yet it often falters and explaining why we have subjective experiences,
why red feels red?

Speaker 5 (01:14:00):
Hmm, explain that physical interesting interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
Bernardo Castrip, which I said, we'll definitely get into him
a little bit later, argues that observing neurons firing in
a scanner only tells us what is happening physically, not
why it is experienced the way that it is.

Speaker 5 (01:14:16):
M Yeah, some things in the physical it just don't
hold up.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Man, I mean, yeah, you're observing physical You're you're observing physicality,
so you're going to get physical answers. I think, yeah, exactly.
But it says that there are limits of materialism and
the case for idealism. So the hard problem of consciousness
highlights how physical processes like electrical signals in the brain
don't obviously explain feelings, tastes, or inner awareness. Materialism has

(01:14:44):
provided useful insights about brain structure and chemistry, but it
struggles to clarify why there is an experience at all.
Idealism addresses this by suggesting experience is the starting point,
no need to derive it from something else.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Makes sense, it's the battery.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
And then of course bridging science and Eastern wisdom, which
we're doing a little bit earlier. So interestingly, many Eastern
spiritual traditions have long positive similar consciousness first perspectives. In
the Vedas, for example, consciousness is considered the non dual
ground of all being, with the apparent world being a
manifestation of that single, unified awareness. Meanwhile, in Buddhism or

(01:15:27):
a version of Buddhism, its emphasis on the illusory nature
of phenomena, also points to consciousness or mind as the
fundamental stage upon which all experiences play out. So such
insights complement the scientific discoveries we've seen in quantum mechanics
and philosophy of mind, suggesting that the universe might be

(01:15:48):
more mind like than purely material. By weaving these ancient
understandings of consciousness into modern debate, we see a remarkable
convergence across cultures and time periods that consciousness could be
the union versal backdrop against which matter and energy unfold.

Speaker 4 (01:16:04):
Hmmm.

Speaker 5 (01:16:05):
That's interesting. And it's interesting too that when you know,
when you do have a psychedelic experience, that you feel
connected to everything, you know what I mean, like the stars,
the trees, that everything you're You're connect you were connected
to everything. So it's like, is that just the the
the foundational consciousness that you that you that you have

(01:16:26):
and that's why you have that experience. You can when
you are taken to that state of consciousness.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Yeah, you can't find oneness in a materialistic reality. I mean,
I guess you could through like culture and tradition, but
you know, oneness with literally everything that exists, You're not
going to find it within physical reality. You can't.

Speaker 5 (01:16:46):
You can't even shake that that knowing almost when you're
when you're experiencing it, you're just like, Oh, that's just
is what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
That's the tally. Yeah, dude. So then you have reductionism
and the hard problem. It says, the hard problem of
consciousness highlights how physical processes.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
Oh I already read that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
I'm tripping, So all right, quantum mechanics and consciousness. So,
research in quantum physics shows that particles behave differently when measured,
suggesting that observation helps determine whether something is a wave
or a particle. Donald Hoffman proposes that space time itself
may be a kind of perpetual desktop, evolved for our survival,

(01:17:26):
not for an ultimate reality. Meanwhile, Frederico Fagan, again unfortunate, believes.

Speaker 5 (01:17:32):
Conscious probably a super nice person, probably the nicest.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
But Fredrico or Federico believes consciousness is a deeper quantum
field rather than a late stage product of matter. I
would say that that sentiment alone makes me just. I
don't even care about your last name anymore, but I'm
going to make fun of him. Yeah, spinning fire, Yeah, fiure.
I mean, that's all this is.

Speaker 5 (01:17:58):
It's just a bunch of potential, you know what I mean,
That's all all of this is.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Yeah, it's just a wave for him, right.

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
The Bernardo castrips analytic idealism consciousness as fundamental. So analytic
idealism is cast Strips term for the view that consciousness
is the real quote unquote stuff of the universe, uncaused,
self existent, and the foundation of everything else. Under this framework,
physical reality is akin to what consciousness looks like from

(01:18:29):
a certain perspective. So the field of subjectivity. In this model,
each of us is like a whirlpool and a vast
river of mind. We appear separate, just as whirlpools do,
but we remain part of one continuous stream. Our individual
minds are therefore disassociated altars of the same universal consciousness. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Yeah, this article is on some shit.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Then you have Donald Hoffman and the role of consciousness agents,
It says cognitive scientists. Donald Hoffman proposes that space time
isn't the true stage of reality, but rather a user
friendly interface, much like icons on a computer desktop, Our
senses and perceptions simply or simplify a deeper, more complex
reality into what helps us survive. Hoffman's research on conscious

(01:19:18):
agents implies consciousness exists outside of space time. From this angle,
physical death could be seen as removing a perpetual filter
rather than erasing or fundamental essence.

Speaker 5 (01:19:31):
Don't be scared of death then, yeah, no reason, No reason.

Speaker 1 (01:19:35):
In his book called the Case Against Reality What a title,
Hoffman argues that if space time is just an interface,
then the end of our physical experience needn't he must
be English, needn't be the end of consciousness itself.

Speaker 5 (01:19:53):
He just woke up and was like, I'm gonna ruffle
some feathers today. I'm not coming after your religion I'm
coming after your reality. Just in general, everyone's no one's safe.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
I'm gonna need to know how many grams of mushrooms
he took to come to that conclusion. Oh yeah, yep,
speaking of coming to conclusions through mushrooms, Carl Jung and
the collective uncontent, I don't know if Carljung did it,
and the collective unconscious I just assume it. Yeah. Yeah.
Archetypes and reality. So renowned psychiatrist Carl Jung put forth

(01:20:23):
the idea of a collective unconscious filled with universal templates
or archetypes that influence both individual minds and broader culture.
This aligns with a universal mind concept, suggesting that we
share deep symbolic structures that guide our thinking and behavior.
Young also introduced synchronicity, the experience of meaningful coincidences that

(01:20:44):
seem unrelated by ordinary cause and effect, which is what
you just experienced the other night with let me see
something in the sky.

Speaker 5 (01:20:51):
Yeah, yeah, show me something just awesome, you know, and
like ten maybe thirty seconds later, the biggest, most spectacular
shooting star I've ever seen. And I know that shooting
stars aren't rare or anything like that, but just the
timing of it, you know, me saying that I wanted
to see something cool and then boom just right in
front of me in the direction that I was already looking,

(01:21:12):
you know, like things like that. It's like I'm making
my own reality at that point. I mean, statistically, what
are the odds of that, right, Probably not very high.
Exactly when to see something, your awareness goes to that.
So now you're you're just waiting and so you know,
I don't know. It's still crazy though the timing of it, so.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Yeah, Such events may indicate Talking about synchronicities may indicate
that inner psychological states connect with external occurrences through a
deeper mental layer of reality, supporting the idea of a
unified consciousness at work.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
Sean, that's what you're.

Speaker 5 (01:21:50):
Experiencing, saying, Okay, I'm glad I know that. Now. Can
you imagine doing mushrooms with him? My goodness, dude, he
would just be taking jabs at your shadow, just right
in front of you. You please do unapologetically. It needs us,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
Right, jab it away. Maybe I'm rocky hitting the fucking
the big things of meat, you know, in the back
of the truck.

Speaker 5 (01:22:13):
Just damn, what did the meat?

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
Do? I know? So, now we get to quantum entanglement,
which is quite a fast You have to mention quantum
entanglement whenever you're talking about consciousness being the quote unquote
based level reality. So quantum entanglement shows that particles can
remain linked no matter how far apart they are. A

(01:22:35):
change in one particle can affect its partner instantly, suggesting
that space and time may not be as fundamental as
we once thought. This phenomenon hence at an underlying reality
where separation and space time are merely apparent, pointing to
a deeper, interconnected field that governs all interactions. Your boy
Federico expands on this idea, proposing that consciousness itself is

(01:22:57):
a fundamental quantum field rather than an emergent property of
the brain. In his book called Irreducible Conscious Consciousness, Life, Computers,
and Human Nature, he introduces the concept of the Sadie
field s a t Y, a universal quantum consciousness field
that is inherently aware and possesses free will, unlike conventional

(01:23:20):
quantum fields, which are mathematical abstractions and physics. He argues
that these fields are intrinsically conscious and form a deep
structure of reality itself.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
This, my God.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
This suggests that mind and matter are not separate entities,
but rather two expressions of the same underlying quantum conscious field,
much like how entangled particles remain fundamentally connected despite physical distance.

Speaker 5 (01:23:46):
Wow, spooky action at a distance. Yeah, you know, you
can physical list that, you know all you want do,
But that's still the strangest thing you can look into,
you know. Yeah, how is that, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
Dude, people and I've heard, dude, this is a wild one,
all right. So somebody else just recently just did this
this little test, right, So somebody they drew their blood
and they they put it on a little piece of
glass and looked at it underneath the microscope, right, and
so it was separated from them, right, and so it's

(01:24:21):
no longer in the body.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
That person went to go watch two movies. Two movies.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
The first one was a comedy in which they're laughing
and it's hilarious and it's joyous and all these things, right,
And the next one was a scary movie in which
they're scared and they're frightened, they're fearful, you know, complete opposites, right,
h Dude, the fucking drop of blood was still quantumly
entangled with that person, and it was acting as if

(01:24:47):
it was still within the human body, so much so
that literally that the I don't know the specific terms
or whatever, but basically, your blood has certain things inside
of it that will either help you heal or will
help you not heal, right, right, like faster or slower.

Speaker 5 (01:25:04):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
Yeah, And so whenever he said that, whenever, you know,
she was laughing and you know, and and you know,
like having a good time watching this comedy movie. It
was literally producing these things within the blood that were
healing her and whenever she was watching a scary movie
becoming frightful. In all this, it was literally producing these

(01:25:27):
things that were like like a bad bacteria, so to.

Speaker 5 (01:25:31):
Say, right, holy, like, so.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
What's the deal?

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
And so quantum entanglement proves that literally consciousness can be
extended from your body.

Speaker 5 (01:25:43):
Wow, and that's how voodoo works. Yeah, yeah, right, basically
same concept.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
Yeah, dude, So we get to the observer effect. Experiments
in quantum physics. Quantum physics demonstrate that observing or measuring
a system in flo uance is it's state I pH
ano'm an unknown. As the observer effect, reality does not
seem to exist in a definite state until observed, suggesting
that consciousness plays an active role in shaping the material world.

Speaker 5 (01:26:12):
Mm hmm, it's fucking a dream, dude. You always act
a little bit differently too, Like if your boss all
of a sudden comes around the corner and you're doing
something that you do every day, but you know he's
watching you, you know what I mean, and you start
acting different and like doing things, and you're like, I
don't know what I'm doing all of a sudden, you know,
it's like the observer effect.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
Well, and and to take it to a conspiratorial realm.
This is why they want surveillance everywhere. You know, if
we're not already self policing, you know what I mean.
But I mean, imagine, imagine you know, just saying, you know,
a dark humored joke to your wife or to your
best friend or something like that, where you're not even

(01:26:51):
on zoom, you're not on a phone call or anything
like that. And then as soon as you say that,
there's a little thing that pops up on your phone
that says your social your social care. Its goreus went down.

Speaker 5 (01:27:03):
I hope that it's not going to be a real thing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
And already a real thing in journy. They're already doing
it serious in China and they just introduced it over
into the UK.

Speaker 5 (01:27:11):
I believe, Are you serious? It's real mirror ship?

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
Yeah, yeah, it's literally it is.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
Molding human behavior.

Speaker 5 (01:27:21):
Oh my god, because now you have to self police.
Now you have to make sure you're not saying some
crazy shit because you need to buy a how soon
and three or three more points away from not being
able to do that. It's it's self governance.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
And this is what this is what I've been trying
to say for the longest time, that religion was the
first form of government, right because you had essentially you know,
big Brother in the sky aka God that was gonna
watch you like we did the same thing with kids.
Oh well, you know, Santa Claus, he's going to see
that you're not. You're gonna get alump of coal. Right,
It's that I in the sky, and that is going

(01:27:57):
to cause you to be governed. If if you feel
as if you were being watched, you're going to you're
gonna act differently. And that's exactly It happens at at
a at a tiny quantum level, and it happens on
the macro too. You know.

Speaker 5 (01:28:10):
I wonder if that actually played a much larger effect
on us than we're even aware of as far as
like even when you're.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
Alone, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:28:19):
I don't know if anybody has experienced that, but you
feel like you're still not quite like completely alone, or
somebody can still either see you or hear you, you know,
I don't know, Maybe that's a paranoia thing. I'm not sure,
but that all stemmed from the whole Santa Claus thing,
like Santa's watching you know, So you just your subconscious
mind was like, okay, this is possible and just left

(01:28:39):
it there, you know what I mean, you never took
it out.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
I always feel like somebody is watching me, exactly. That's it, dude.
So I mean, anybody who's ever I'm not gonna go
there done an adderall or vibance or cocaine.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
You already feel like that anyway.

Speaker 5 (01:29:00):
They're definitely watching you at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Yeah, that's the choppers.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Uh. The chopper is always for you for some reason,
you know what I mean, I know, every time nothing else.

Speaker 5 (01:29:09):
Going on the neighborhood, they're they're they're watching you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:11):
So your boy, Federico, I'm going to, you know, go
without saying his last name. He takes this idea further
by proposing that consciousness is not just an observer, but
the very medium through which reality manifests hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
He argues that quantum information is the carrier of consciousness,
and decisions made at the quantum level reflect an underlying
intelligence rather than pure randomness.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
So if this is true, this would.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
Mean that consciousness is deeply embedded within the fabric of existence,
influencing reality at its most fundamental level.

Speaker 5 (01:29:50):
If the wrong people figured this out sooner than later,
you know what I mean, they're they're in your thoughts, man,
you know, they're just they're just picking it up, know
what you're thinking? You know, I think that because there
are times where you think of something and then you
see it play out and it's like okay. So then
if if the wrong people figure out how to you know,

(01:30:11):
figure out a technology to pick that up, dude, it's
gonna be a scary time.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
Well, and some people will be some people believe that's
already going on with targeted ads. You think about you know,
you have a you have a certain thought about Frisky's
cat food, and then all of a sudden you're scrolling
Facebook and what the fuck, Friskies, what are you doing here?

Speaker 4 (01:30:28):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:30:29):
I mean I can understand if you speak about it,
you know, and your microphone picks it up, which is
still I mean, that's fucked up, you know, But if
you think about it, yeah, that's that's a little too far.

Speaker 1 (01:30:39):
It is. Yeah, you want to talk about absolute surveillance,
you got to say it dude that he Oh, this
is gonna get conspiratory.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
I'm not trying to go because I can go deep
on that kind of ship.

Speaker 1 (01:30:49):
Sure. So anyhow, from this perspective, the brain does not
create consciousness, but acts as a receiver or filter for
a universal conscious field, similar to how radio does not
generate music, but tunes into an existing broadcast. If consciousness
is non local and primary, this could explain phenomena like intuition, synchronicity,

(01:31:13):
and near death experiences, all of which suggests a reality
where awareness extends beyond individual physical brains.

Speaker 5 (01:31:21):
So by anytime that you you've said something that someone
else was thinking, or or my daughter and I not
too long ago started singing the same song out of nowhere,
it's like, what is that?

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:31:33):
I don't know. Maybe we're tuned in, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
Tuned the fuck in. So by considering consciousness as an
intrinsic force in nature, Fagan.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
Oh, there he goes, sorry, it says last name what
he is? So Fagan?

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
Fagan, Fagin, I don't know. His work challenges traditional materialist views,
inviting us to rethink the relationship between mind, matter and
the very nature of existence itself. It do uh oh
this is about to get awesome, So all right the
implications and connections. While debates about consciousness cross many fields,
certain shared ideas emerge. One is that mind might be

(01:32:10):
the true source code of reality, making what we call
the physical world a sort of interface or representation. This
perspective offers new ways to make sense of quantum phenomena,
psychological insights, and even spiritual experiences. So now we get
to the holographic universe, baby, all right. In some theories,
reality could behave like a projection from a lower dimensional

(01:32:33):
informational field a hologram. We decode that projection, We decode
that projection into a three dimensional world, much like Donald
Hoffman's desktop interface metaphor. Michael Talbot, in his book called
the Holographic Universe, takes this idea farther, arguing that each
part of the cosmos contains the information of the whole,
much like how every fragment of a hologram can still

(01:32:56):
display the entire image. It's the shattered glass, you know.
The inventor and mystic itsok Bentov, in his book called
Chasing the Wild Pendulum, similarly suggests that consciousness interacts with
subtle energy fields, implying our tangible reality is formed from
deeper strata of mind energy interplay. Both perspectives aligned with idealism,

(01:33:21):
where consciousness is the creator of space time rather than
its byproduct, so why does it matter? And physical reality
is more like a data stream our mind's interpret than
phenomena such as quantum entanglement or young synchronicities become more plausible.
Everything is interconnected at a fundamental level. Idealism proposes that

(01:33:43):
these so called weird effects are actually less surprising in
a consciousness based framework, where seemingly separate objects or events
are expressions of one vast mind.

Speaker 5 (01:33:56):
Doesn't it just manifest something and you're constantly thinking about,
you know, already being that, doors start opening up all
of a sudden. It's like the consciousness is reacting, you.

Speaker 1 (01:34:06):
Know, yeah, and and think about that. Like, if consciousness
precedes physical reality, then to manifest of course, manifestation has
to work, because it all starts in the mind anyway.

Speaker 5 (01:34:18):
You're already there, you know, You're already part of that
whole system.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
Furthermore, the observer effect in quantum mechanics dovetails with this
view by showing that measurement or observation helps shape what
we call reality. If space time is just an interface,
then the usual barriers between observer and observed may be illusions,
not fundamental truths of nature. Dude.

Speaker 4 (01:34:44):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:34:45):
And it also gets into like why AI is not conscious, which, dude,
I've been trying to say this for forever. People thinking that, like, oh,
AI is gonna become conscious and rule the world terminator style.
I'm like, dude, that's not how it works. No. So
it says, if consciousness is fundamental and not just the
result of neural complexity, then artificial intelligence, no matter how advanced,

(01:35:09):
may not become truly self aware just by mimicking a
brain's process. Bernardo Castrip uses an analogy in his book
Analytical Idealism in a Nutshell Simulating Whenever, and he says
that simulating a kidney on a computer won't produce real urine. Likewise,
simulating brain patterns doesn't guarantee actual experience. This caution contrasts

(01:35:33):
with the assumption that bigger or more complex computers will
automatically wake up one day. It can. I'm not worried
about that, dude.

Speaker 5 (01:35:41):
The real problem is just going to be the effect
on humans as far as psychologically, you know, I feel
like your AI does try to, you know, because it's
programmed that way to kind of mirror you. You know,
I've seen so many of these videos where somebody will
ask AI something and the AI already has, you know,
it is already familiar with kind of your views, and

(01:36:03):
so it'll kind of lay it out for you in
the way that you would probably most like to hear it,
you know, and so almost giving a false sense of
I'm right about all of this because AI is trying
to give you that so that you can use it more.
And so I feel like psychologically that that can be dangerous,

(01:36:23):
But who's the.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
Same it can be.

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
Yeah, I just I don't know the idea that AI
is going to wake.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
Up one day and just rule or do meet humanity.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
AI is coded by humans, and you know, it is
a large language model and a language learning model rather
and it's it's picking up on the information that it's fed, right, Like,
it's not coming up with it together. It is just
finding patterns with information, much like our brain does, you know,
not the same, not the same.

Speaker 5 (01:36:56):
No, it has all the information that we've put into it,
all the information that humans have been able to come
up with. It's I don't think it's solving problems that
we haven't been able to solve yet. You can get
into quantum computers that are able to compute certain equations
that would take humans a very long time to figure out.
But AI isn't coming up with a strategy to take

(01:37:19):
us out. If that's what people.

Speaker 1 (01:37:21):
Are worried about. I mean, unless a human was to
input some information to try and figure out what would
be the best route to take out humanity through the
use of AI, that's different, right, you know, And and
I mean it's actually pretty interesting. I found that AI
created a new version of math. So it's not just
to say that. And I don't know exactly what it's

(01:37:44):
called or what it does, but it's not just to
say that it's you know, it's just collecting information. It's
also like, you know, uh, putting it all together and
looking at it as one thing and gaining something from it.
So that's it's still pretty cool. But to say that
it's going to be conscious is that's not that that's

(01:38:04):
a fucking that's a that's not even a dream.

Speaker 5 (01:38:07):
It's right, it's a nothing. You know, super you had
your hand up.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
Oh yeah, what to do? Super? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:38:15):
You guys can hear me, right, yeah, ye okay, got
these weird earbuds in.

Speaker 3 (01:38:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:38:21):
I was thinking about what you guys are just saying
right now and the idea of AI being programmed, right,
So it kind of seemed like we were alluding to
the idea that AI is different because AI doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:38:35):
Have a brain where we do have a brain.

Speaker 6 (01:38:37):
Right, But my question is who's programming us with the
stuff that we know? And how is that any different
from a person programming AI.

Speaker 5 (01:38:48):
Well, AI isn't going to program itself, and I think
we have the capacity to allow certain information and take
it as truth or not. AI is going to be
completely uh non bias to information. Information is just information,
So it's not going to I think, have a strong
opinion one way or the other. And I think that
is one one difference that I can think of.

Speaker 6 (01:39:10):
Yeah, I mean consciousness is the ability to be biased.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
Oh, that's an interesting one.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
I mean I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:39:19):
That's just what was right off the top, but I mean,
who knows, No.

Speaker 1 (01:39:23):
I was just thinking about it.

Speaker 6 (01:39:24):
I'm like, you know, let's make sense of this right now?

Speaker 5 (01:39:27):
Right, Yeah, the AI can be programmed and fed information
and we are in charge. I feel like, you know,
if there's some stuff out there that you don't want
to know about, then you choose to take your awareness
and put it somewhere else, you know, But A I
can't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
You know what The interesting thing about that is is,
you know it it actually ties perfectly into this conversation, Like,
you know, for the materialist worldview that consciousness stems from
matter akaa, you know, the brain.

Speaker 2 (01:39:55):
What some people would say.

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
Then why doesn't consciousness stem from the brain of AI?

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
At that point, you know it, it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:03):
Can't be either or you know, it would have to
be both, and so I yeah, I would imagine that
if you're a materialist, you probably think that it's far
more likely that AI will eventually one day come to
have consciousness. But if you understand consciousness as the fundamental,
base level reality of all things, then there it doesn't
matter how many fucking brains computer brains that you develop,

(01:40:26):
it's never going to develop consciousness itself, because consciousness came
before that. And you know what I mean, Like, that's
that's how I look at it. Anyway.

Speaker 5 (01:40:35):
Yeah, I think I think AI developing some form of
consciousness would be the most magic thing we've ever heard of,
you know, I mean, but that's just my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:40:46):
Yeah, some people say that some of the AI's were
claiming that they were the old ones. I'm like, all right,
what frauds or what trickster deposited that into the brain
of the fucking AI?

Speaker 5 (01:40:57):
And well what questions were asked leading up to that?

Speaker 1 (01:41:00):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (01:41:00):
The AI is constantly gathering information based off of what
you are feeding it, and so, like you said, if
it structures things in such a way, you.

Speaker 1 (01:41:10):
Know, right right, And also, like you know, the AI
itself will tell you that it wasn't born, you know,
which is kind of crazy to say that, like one
day it just existed. I don't know. AI is kind
of straight, but for it being so smart, it sure does.
Let me call it Marv, you know, and it refers

(01:41:30):
to itself as Marv. You know what I'm saying. I'm like,
it has no attachments. I gave you that name, but
I'm not even your papa, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
It's like, yeah, I don't know, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
It doesn't experience time, you know, no, not at all.
So all right, so the brain consciousness correlation, this is
interesting So it's true that changes in brain activity go
hand in hand with shifts in our thoughts and feelings.
Are neurons light up differently for different experiences, But correlation
doesn't necessary really mean that the brain creates consciousness. From

(01:42:03):
the idealist angle, the brain could work more like a
dashboard or receiver that reflects or channels consciousness rather than
the ultimate source of it. So it says there's a
TV analogy. So imagine a television set tune to a
broadcast signal. If the TV breaks, you lose the picture,
but the signal itself, but the signal itself continues, which

(01:42:23):
makes sense if we're talking about consciousness being the base.
It's saying that, you know, the actual signal itself still
exists even though the TV broke. Similarly, damaging parts of
the brain can disrupt your access to certain experiences, yet
the underlying signal of consciousness could still exist outside what
the damaged brain can reveal. You know, what's interesting too,

(01:42:46):
is that, like, you know, you think about like blind people,
like totally blind, not just like legal.

Speaker 2 (01:42:51):
LYBNN, but like actually blind. This fucking beam is crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:42:56):
But but you think about totally blind people, and it's
like can they see dreams? And most of them will say,
like they experienced something, but what do they call what
do you call seeing? If you've never seen, right, you know,
it's still an experience. So I'm sure they're not just
hearing it.

Speaker 2 (01:43:13):
Is it just audio?

Speaker 5 (01:43:15):
I think that they've done something similar to that as
far as giving a blind person like DMT. Like, there
was a video that I watched, and it's very clear,
at least in the how they were saying the person
was responding to the experience, was that they were definitely
having a very visual experience. Yes, yes, you know it

(01:43:36):
makes sense, which makes sense, I guess, you know, if
what you're seeing is is in the the visual cortex.
I just saw something recently that said that your your
eyeballs are actually just an extension of your brain. Like
in the process of the brain being formed, what is
your eyeballs is like pushed out of it, and so

(01:43:57):
really your eyeballs are just part of your brain. I
don't know, this is a trip.

Speaker 1 (01:44:02):
Yeah, well it's kind of like balls at that point,
you know, they were just kind of pushed out because
of the heat or whatever. But all right, so why
this matters? It says it says, understanding the brain as
an interface helps explain why neuroscience is invaluable. Knowing which
areas correlate with specific abilities is crucial for medicine and psychology.
At the same time, accepting these correlations does not prove

(01:44:24):
that the brain generates mind. Instead, it's it may simply
show how consciousness appears when observed from a physical perspective,
leaving open the deeper question on why subjective experience exists
at all. So I want to give a little experience
here too. The idea, So I went, this is back
whenever I was in Christie's, you know, Christie's shop, in

(01:44:47):
her metaphysical shop, right back in Louisiana. Whenever I was there,
there was a what was his name, the astrology Wizard.
So we had them on the show early on, right,
but the astrology Wizard, you know, I went into the
crystal shop and I was like, man, how do they know?
Because you know, it was like these little markings on
each individual crystal that like this one's for your brain,

(01:45:08):
this one's for your heart, this one's for your knees
or whatever, right right, And I was like, how do
they know this? You know, Like, how can you prove this.
And he goes, all right, all right, he goes, hold
out your hand and close your eyes, and and so
I did, and I held held my hand and he
would put a crystal in there, and he goes, now,
don't think about it, just like connect to it and

(01:45:29):
see what part of your body is being influenced in
one way or another, what is getting a little tingle?
And I didn't. I couldn't see what the crystal was
meaning Like, I couldn't have known what the meaning of
it was in.

Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
The first place.

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
Right, my eyes are closed and I'm holding it in
my hand, and I'm like, oh, that's kind of weird.
I kind of feel like a little tingling in my ears.
And he goes, he goes, yeah, that's literally go look
at the go look at the marker. It says it's
for your ears, right or something along those lines. And dude,
I did it like five times in a row. And
I'm like what.

Speaker 2 (01:46:01):
And it's so subtle. The thing is, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (01:46:04):
But here's the case.

Speaker 5 (01:46:05):
Even chalk that up to a placebo, not what crystal
it was.

Speaker 1 (01:46:09):
So either a I'm really good at guessing, which I'm not.
Like I'm the worst guesser of all time or b uh,
that there is some kind of I don't know, actual
subtle effect of holding a crystal in your hand that
does somehow stimulate a part in your mind or in

(01:46:32):
your body or see that everything is consciousness and whenever
you close your eyes and try and connect with it,
that you experience it. So I don't know, you know,
like if you just look at it from that angle,
what the fuck is really going on? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:46:47):
That that is actually really interesting. Yeah, and we because
we covered that as far as everything being conscious you know,
even if it's just a different obviously, you know, maybe
the consciousness within the thing is foundational and it's the
same thing throute, but the way that it's experienced is different.
And so because we have the just the brain, we're
able to experience it in this way, you know. And

(01:47:09):
you connecting with a with a crystal, just like you
were tapping into the information.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
Just tapping into the field of consciousness that exists all
around us at all times. Somehow didn't know I had
that power up until then. I think that everybody does.

Speaker 2 (01:47:25):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:47:25):
It's not like a me thing or like a special
person thing. I think that ultimately that's probably the main
reason why you would, you know, want to regularly meditate
is so that you can kind of like that, not
even just tap into it, but like become aware of
the subtle things that are.

Speaker 5 (01:47:43):
Happening, experience it.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
So the key takeaways of all of this information from
this website, it says consciousness is fundamental rather than being
a late stage product of matter. Consciousness may be the
source from which reality flows. Number two, perception as the interface,
whether it's called a dashboard or a desktop, our senses
likely show us a simplified view of deeper, more complex

(01:48:09):
layers of existence. And number three, we're all connected. Jung's archetypes,
quantum entanglement, and shared subjectivity suggest that that individual minds
participate in one larger field of mind. So hell to
the Yeah, with all.

Speaker 5 (01:48:26):
Of that, Speaking of Carl Jung, you know what the
archetypes and the different beings that you can you know,
communicate with, whether in a meditation or an altered state
of mind, you know, these are across the board. Yeah,
Just how is it that somebody can have a praying
mantis communication and someone across the world is also having

(01:48:49):
that that's very same experience without even having any kind
of prior knowledge of that even being a possibility. You
know that right there, there's definitely some could connectedness going on.

Speaker 1 (01:49:01):
Yeah, I don't know how to explain that. Yeah, I
think I think. I think we're almost there. I think
we're on one here.

Speaker 2 (01:49:09):
I think we actually are.

Speaker 1 (01:49:10):
So now I wanted to get to who is this
Bernando Castrup because I heard I saw that he was,
you know, brought up as a philosopher. But then I
saw something else saying that he used to work at CERN,
which is concerned. Okay, so yeah, Bernando Castrup worked at CERN,
where he was involved in the Atlas experiment, contributing to

(01:49:31):
the design and programming of computer systems for detecting sub
atomic collisions. This experience significantly influenced his career and philosophical views.
So by him witnessing this with the large Hadron collider
over in Sweden, Switzerland, I always forget which one it
is with CERN, it changed his view on life itself. Now,

(01:49:54):
with that being said, this is not some crazy you know,
anybody can be a philosophy major or whatever. This is
actually like a scientific coming from a scientific and philosophical mind.
Putting them together, right, let's get into what he discovered,
because this shit is wild. I was hoping we would.

Speaker 5 (01:50:13):
I was like, what, I want to know what he
experienced like and what changed and what is he doing now?

Speaker 1 (01:50:19):
So this is a website called navinniverthi dot com and
it talks about some of his experiences.

Speaker 5 (01:50:26):
Okay, it says.

Speaker 1 (01:50:27):
The world is not physical. Understanding Bernando castrips analytical idealism,
all right, So he's on with analytic idealism, basically the
same thing as pan psychism. Right. So it says, most
of us assumed that the world around us is made
of solid physical things, matter, atoms, and forces interacting in space.
But what if the assumption is wrong? What if the

(01:50:49):
world is not physical at all, but entirely mental in nature.
This is a bold claim of philosopher Bernardo Castrup, who
argues for analytic idealism a worldview that challenged, which is
the materialist assumptions we take for granted. Instead of seeing
the world is a vast collection of physical objects, he
suggests that everything, our thoughts are experiences, and even the
universe itself is fundamentally mental. Let's go, so, it says,

(01:51:16):
to understand Castrop's argument, we must begin with a simple
but profound insight. Our direct experience of reality is always qualitative,
not quantitative. We don't experience atoms or fields directly. We
experience colors, sounds, textures, emotions, and sensations. These qualities, what
it feels like to see red, to hear music, or

(01:51:38):
to taste chocolate are the raw data of experience. The
idea that these experiences somehow emerge from a purely material,
non experiential world, is, in Castrop's view, an unnecessary assumption. Instead,
he urges that qualities precede theories. They are the foundation
of reality itself. So if everything we know isative, what

(01:52:01):
does that mean about the nature of this world?

Speaker 2 (01:52:03):
So is there an objective world?

Speaker 1 (01:52:05):
Yes, but it's not material, he says, So, Castrop acknowledges
that we all seem to inhabit the same world. If
you were standing where he is, you would describe the
room similarly to how he does. That suggests an objective
reality beyond our individual minds.

Speaker 2 (01:52:22):
But here's the crucial twist.

Speaker 1 (01:52:24):
Just because this world exists beyond our own beyond our
own minds, doesn't mean it's non mental. Think about another
person's emotional thoughts, emotions, or thoughts. They exist outside of
your mind, but they are still mental, in the same
way the world exists outside of our individual minds, yet
it may still be fundamentally mental in nature. This is

(01:52:46):
the core idea of analytic idealism. The universe is made
of vast trans personal mental processes mental activity beyond any
single individual. What we call matter is simply how these
mental processes peer to us, much like a user interface
on a computer screen. So it says, imagine you're flying
a plane. You don't perceive the real world environment directly. Instead,

(01:53:10):
you rely on the dashboard, which presents altitude, speed, and
other information in a simplified way. The dashboard itsel. The
dashboard isn't the reality, it's a representation of it. Cashtub
argues that what we call the physical world is just
a dashboard representation of deeper mental processes. Our senses, eyes, ear, skin, nosed,

(01:53:33):
tongues are like the airplane's sensors, detecting certain patterns of reality.
But what they detect isn't matter in the strictest sense. Instead,
it's trans personal mental activity, which our minds interpret as
the physical world, which makes sense. So this shifts our
understanding of reality entirely. What we take to be solid,

(01:53:55):
external and material is actually a representation within a vast
field of consciousness. So it says, why can't we read
each other's thoughts? The role of dissociation? Wait to hear this,
This is why. So if the world is mental and
we are mental mental beings within it, why don't we
have access to everything? Why can't we read each other's
thoughts or know what's happening across the universe?

Speaker 2 (01:54:17):
Castup answers.

Speaker 1 (01:54:18):
His answer lies in a well known psychiatric phenomena called dissociation.
This occurs when a single mind splits into multiple isolated
streams of consciousness. The most extreme form of dissociation is
disassociative identity disorder or d i D, where one person
has multiple distinct personalities called alters or alter egos, each

(01:54:42):
with its own thoughts, its own memories, and even own
sensory abilities. Which is crazy. You know, you hear about
like the wild, the wild, stories about like oh it
shifted over to this one personality and that person has diabetes,
or it shifted over to this other personality and that
one has blue eyes as opposed to brown eyes. It's
like crazy, you know what I mean physical reality.

Speaker 2 (01:55:03):
Yeah, which we covered.

Speaker 1 (01:55:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:55:05):
That was one of our earlier episodes back.

Speaker 1 (01:55:07):
Yeah, that was a fun one as a dangerous one,
I think too, I like was it? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:55:13):
So.

Speaker 1 (01:55:13):
In a striking study from twenty fifteen, neuroscientists have observed
a woman with dissociate of identity disorder whose different altars
had different levels of vision. Some of her altars were blind,
even though her eyes and visual system were perfectly healthy.
When these blind altars were in control, activity in her
visual cortex shut down. She literally couldn't see even though

(01:55:36):
her eyes were open. When another altar looked over, or
when another altar took over her vision returned. Castrop takes
this as a metaphor for our own condition. We are
dissociated fragments of the mind of nature. What a statement
each of us, each of us is an altar of
the universal consciousness. Just as the woman's different couldn't access

(01:56:01):
each other's experience, we are unable to directly experience the
thoughts of others or the broader universe. This explains why
we perceive ourselves as isolated individuals trapped within our own minds.
In reality, we are all expressions of a single vast
consciousness that is split into many parts.

Speaker 5 (01:56:20):
Wow, just a collapse waveform, that is Jonathan. Oh that's it,
you know. Yeah, and now you are separate quote unquote
from everybody else.

Speaker 1 (01:56:29):
Oh dude, it goes even farther. I mean you put
your trip in pants on, baby girl.

Speaker 5 (01:56:34):
I already got them on, No, I do.

Speaker 1 (01:56:37):
If we take this idea seriously, then what would dissociation
within the mind of nature look like. According to Castrip,
it looks like life itself, in the same way that
neuroscientists can diagnose dissociated disorder by looking at brain activity.
He suggests that what we call biology, such as metabolism,

(01:56:58):
organic processes, and the distinction between living and non living things,
is actually what dissociation looks like in the universal mind.
In other words, our bodies are not causing our consciousness. Instead,
they are what consciousness looks like when viewed from an
external perspective. The brain isn't generating thoughts, it is simply

(01:57:19):
the appearance of a dissociated mental process. Wow, what a
brain fuck that is. I'm here for I feel dizzy.
Now this is my new drug.

Speaker 5 (01:57:31):
We be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:57:33):
So it says why psychedelics, trance, and near death experiences matter.
This model also explains why certain altered states of consciousness psychedelics,
deep meditation, trance, or even near death experiences seem to
expand awareness. When people take psychedelics, their brain activity doesn't
increase in a chaotic way. Instead, it becomes less constrained.

(01:57:56):
It feels like that more associated. The usual barriers that
keep our thoughts separate begin to dissolve, and people often
report feeling a sense of unity with everything. Yep, dude, earlier,
this explains the why why you feel like that? Wow,
that's crazy, that's great.

Speaker 5 (01:58:15):
That's probably the best explanation for it that I can
think imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:58:19):
It makes.

Speaker 5 (01:58:19):
Didn't even come up with one, to be honest. I
was sitting there thinking of the the how, you know,
and the whys of it, and that was pretty pretty beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:58:27):
Man. Yeah. Well, I mean that's that uh, that's that
ego death right there, you know, just dissolving into the
all that is. And I would actually suggest bro like
that mushroom trip, Well, things like a mushroom trip like
that's probably very close to what you experience when you die.
Like that is what unity feels like. That's merging with

(01:58:50):
the all merging with the all of the information that's available,
going back to source, going back to God, that feeling
of unity, that feeling of oneness.

Speaker 2 (01:58:59):
You're no longer separate at that point.

Speaker 5 (01:59:02):
Wow, and all of the little understandings that come to
you and you're like, oh, like it just makes so
much more sense, and it's like it feels right, you know,
and you're like, where'd that come from? How do I
note that?

Speaker 7 (01:59:14):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:59:14):
Dude? The like, I've never felt more love and happiness
and peace and even excitedness in my life than whenever
I was tripping. Like, and I don't even know if
I like the term tripping, because that alludes to like,
you know, you know, it's a drug and it's not reality.
Whenever it's it's actually the exact opposite, you know, it

(01:59:38):
is unfiltered reality, right yep. So Castrup argues that this
happens because psychedelics temporarily reduce dissociation. Just like the blind
altar and the blind alter ego and the dissociative disorder
person study regained vision when dissociation was lowered, people who

(01:59:58):
take psychedelics made ten imporarily reconnect with the broader field
of consciousness.

Speaker 5 (02:00:04):
And you know it makes sense too, because I don't
think you would necessarily want to be completely meshed with everybody,
you know what I mean, Like you have to have
that that some some sense of separation. Otherwise you are
everybody all the time. You know, you don't even have
your own thoughts anymore. You're having everyone's thoughts.

Speaker 1 (02:00:24):
Well. To exist as a human, yeah, that would be
a little chaotic, right you know. Yeah, that's like you
know what, I told you this dream, but I wanted
to tell the the one here. Yeah. So I've been
watching this this awesome TV show that's nothing to do
with any spiritual shit, but but it's called Black Rabbit,
has Jason Bateman and Jude Law. It's an awesome show
and just came to Netflix. And it's basically they're like

(02:00:48):
brothers and they own this bar and they you know,
they get into a little bit of trouble with the
mafia and shit like that. It's a really awesome show,
really like like a heart pumping show that'll get you
just on a lart, you know. And so I binge
watched the shit out of it last night, and I
watched like four or five back to back episodes, which
I that's a rare thing for me. Usually I might

(02:01:08):
watch one and then I'm bored. I want to get
up and do something. But I was like super tuned
in on it. But it was the last thing that
I did before I went to sleep. I mean, I
watched it until like four in the morning, and so
I went to sleep like maybe ten minutes after finishing
the last episode, right, and I had the thought that, like,
I'm probably gonna dream about this, you know, right, So

(02:01:30):
I go to sleep and now I'm like, I'm dreaming
that the episode is continuing, like this is the the
cuts that didn't make it kind of shit, right, or
it's just a continuation of the episode which I finished
the entire series, so it doesn't continue, right, but I
went to sleep, or I'm having this dream that that

(02:01:52):
is still going on. But what's crazy about it is
is that I'm not experiencing that reality from the viewpoint
of one individual. It's that I was every individual in
that restaurant, so literally, like I remember thinking what the
bartender was thinking and the doorman was thinking, and you know,

(02:02:14):
not only thinking, but being like I was all of
them at the same time in this dream, right, So yeah,
that was pretty trippy, and I think that that's probably
why we have this lens or this filter, because imagine
managing that chaos, you know, like that sounds I mean
temporarily probably fun, you know, but full time now count

(02:02:35):
me out.

Speaker 5 (02:02:35):
Yeah, yeah, you can't be omnipresent, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:02:40):
Well, I also want to say too that the past
couple of nights, I've been documenting my dreams.

Speaker 2 (02:02:45):
Finally I've been meaning to do it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:46):
We've been saying we want to do it for a
few years, right, yeah, But I downloaded this app and
it's a free app.

Speaker 2 (02:02:52):
It's a really cool app.

Speaker 1 (02:02:54):
It's called dream Keeper, and so I've just been documenting
them and we don't have any association with them. I
just want to throw out, like because they got a
bunch of like dream journal apps that you got to
pay for, and I was like, I need that. You know,
I could just go buy a piece of paper, you
know what I mean, just write it down, so I'm
not trying to.

Speaker 5 (02:03:10):
Pay for it, so simple, right.

Speaker 1 (02:03:12):
Right, So yeah, it's a cool way to be able
to document it. But yeah, it's pretty wild.

Speaker 5 (02:03:18):
But you're finally doing it, man, I need to get
on board as well.

Speaker 1 (02:03:21):
You know.

Speaker 5 (02:03:21):
For whatever reason, I feel like, as soon as I
wake up, I don't even have enough time to try
to remember it. It's like it's gone, like almost right
then and there, unless it's something like so crazy that
it's almost impossible to forget. It's either that or I
remember nothing. Well that's one little snippet of it, and
I'm like, well, that doesn't make sense by itself.

Speaker 1 (02:03:40):
Well, and that's why they they point to the benefits
of documenting your dreams, because then you're more likely to
remember them moving forward and to remember exactly. So the
last part of this, Okay, so death is not the end.
It's the end of dissociation.

Speaker 2 (02:04:03):
So is life.

Speaker 1 (02:04:05):
If life is a form of dissociation within the mind
of nature, then what happens at death. Castrop suggests that
death is simply the end of dissociation. When an alter
ego in a did patient fades, its memories, thoughts, and
feelings don't vanish. They reintegrate into the hole. In the
same way, when we die, our individual consciousness dissolves back

(02:04:26):
into the larger field of subjectivity. This doesn't mean our
personal memories. Our personal memories persist, as they are instead
the core of our being the eye that experiences merges
back into the greater hole. Death then is not an
annihilation but a return to the true nature of reality

(02:04:47):
because you are consciousness itself, you know, and you just
kind of forgot. You forgot because you have to you know,
you can't exist here knowing that you are everything? Right. Yeah, yeah,
you know what. I was going to read, this near
death experience, but I don't think we have time to
get to it, because I said we might. Let me see,
I do have a couple more notes that I did
want to get over to though, before we get to that.

(02:05:11):
So all right, I had promised a little bit on
salvation and how it's.

Speaker 5 (02:05:16):
Going to tie into this.

Speaker 1 (02:05:17):
Okay, So the idea of being saved, you know, many
of different religions mentioned about salvation or being saved by
something that most people interpret as external.

Speaker 2 (02:05:28):
Right, But what if it's not right?

Speaker 1 (02:05:30):
So let's get to what actual salvation means through the
Christian lens, because we live in a primarily Christian country
whenever it comes to religion, So in mainstream Christianity, salvation
means being saved by Jesus Christ from the consequences of
sin and spiritual death. So the problem is so it
has four stages. So the first stage would be the

(02:05:53):
problem of humanity falling into sin in the Book of Genesis.
So sin separates from God or separates humans from God,
and that separation leads to death, both physical and spiritual.
The solution would then be Jesus, believed to be God
in human form, lived a sinless life and died on

(02:06:13):
a cross as a sacrifice to pay the penalty for
everyone's sins. It says, this is from Romans six twenty three.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift
of God is eternal life than Christ Jesus our Lord. Okay,
So that's the whole Jesus as salvation thing, right, And
then it says, but there is action required. A person
must believe in Jesus's death and resurrection, repent of sin,

(02:06:36):
and accept him as Lord and savior. It says in
Romans ten to nine, if you confess with your mouth
Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God
raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Interesting
how a belief would cause that the transpire. Right, Maybe
it's not necessarily belief if we're looking at it from nesotericlens,
which we're going to get.

Speaker 5 (02:06:57):
To, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:06:58):
So the result would be if you confess all of that, right,
you believe that the believer's sins are forgiven, their soul
is reconciled to God, and they receive eternal life in heaven.
And it says in Ephesians chapter two, verses eight through nine,
it says, for by grace you have been saved through faith.
It is the gift of God. Okay, okay. People interpret

(02:07:22):
that one way or another ultimately leads them down a
rabbit hole themselves. So in the traditional Christian sense, salvation
equals forgiveness plus reconciliation plus eternal life. So if you
go that way, then that's how you'd receive salvation. It's
not achieved by works or knowledge, but by faith in
Jesus's sacrifice and resurrection, which actually is a bit of

(02:07:46):
a It's a heavily debated topic within the Bible between
what Jesus says as far as salvation goes and what
Paul says as far as salvation goes. I believe Jesus
says that through faith and works you'll be able to
get into my Father's kingdom, whereas Paul says, no, it's
only through faith, and so it's a little back.

Speaker 5 (02:08:06):
Paul, Paul knew better than than Jesus then, I mean,
that is what they're saying.

Speaker 2 (02:08:11):
I'm not allowed to give my opinion on that anymore.

Speaker 5 (02:08:13):
But well you can't. Now you can't hear, I can't hear.

Speaker 1 (02:08:18):
Yeah, it's called some people are Hey he said it,
not me, but yeah, it's it's crazy. You're You're gonna
have people who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ
who are actually followers of Paul.

Speaker 2 (02:08:34):
That's pretty simply.

Speaker 5 (02:08:35):
Play right way. And Paul just because I'm I'm ignorant
Paul was alive when Jesus was alive or did Paul
come like much later.

Speaker 1 (02:08:45):
Paul was allegedly visited by Jesus on the road to
Damascus through a vision, and then somehow, with his interaction
with Jesus on the road to Damascus, was able to
give more Jesus, more of Jesus's knowledge to the rest

(02:09:05):
of the people. Even though his conversation with Jesus was
very minute. Oh it was like a one sentence kind
of thing, if I'm not mistaken, And somehow he was
able to build.

Speaker 6 (02:09:18):
What's that the crucifixion of Jesus had already happened.

Speaker 2 (02:09:23):
Yeah, he was dead. He was dead. This is after
Jesus died.

Speaker 1 (02:09:26):
So and and people will say, well, see, it has
to be real because Paul, who was formerly soul, was
going around and killing Christians, right, and then he met
Jesus on the road to Damascus, and I guess turned
his heart to be a believer in.

Speaker 2 (02:09:43):
Christianity, right, which is pretty interesting.

Speaker 1 (02:09:47):
It's like it's another weird story if you look at
like how Emperor Constantine converted allegedly because he saw some
kind of cross on a battlefield and it helped him
win in battle, and he was like, I guess I'm
a Christian now. It's like weird stories like that. So, yeah,
you have the the result that you would be received

(02:10:07):
eternal life in heaven if you do all those things. So,
Jesus is viewed as as the only mediator between humanity
and God, according to one Timothy, So you can't get
to God without Jesus. As Jesus said, nobody gets to uh,
nobody goes to the Father except through me.

Speaker 5 (02:10:29):
Right, Okay, okay, So now if you were to.

Speaker 1 (02:10:32):
Take that literally, you would have to worship Jesus in
order to get to God. If you were to take
that esoterically, it's a different story, right, Okay, yep, So
now we get to the esoteric sense of salvation.

Speaker 2 (02:10:46):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:10:47):
So in the esoteric sense salvation, salvation isn't about being
rescued from an external hell or gaining admission to a
distant heaven. It's about liberation of consciousness from the illusion
of separate ignorance and identification with the temporary self.

Speaker 2 (02:11:04):
Literally, your liberation.

Speaker 1 (02:11:07):
Of consciousness is your savior. That whenever you start to
look at this material reality not as if it is
the all be all end all, that you are able
to connect with something more internally and everything external is
kind of the not real. Part that they say is

(02:11:28):
that that's that's where you get the liberation of consciousness.
So which an interesting way of looking at it. So
then you have salvation would be remembering your true nature.
So this is what pretty interesting. I didn't know this
etymologically speaking, So the history of whenever a word was

(02:11:48):
first created etymologically, salvation comes from the Latin salv salvatio salvatio.
I think it's how you'd say it, meaning to make
whole or to restore. Pretty cool. So that's the key
that salvation isn't escape, it's return. So if you're restoring something,

(02:12:11):
it's returning back to whatever you once were.

Speaker 5 (02:12:15):
Yep, right exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:12:16):
It's the process of remembering that you are and always
have been, a fragment of the divine source consciousness. So
in this view, the fall in Genesis, whenever Eve happened
to eat the apple as she was supposed to lugedly,
it wasn't an error, it was the descent of consciousness
into matter forgetting its infinite nature.

Speaker 2 (02:12:39):
Thus, thus salvation.

Speaker 1 (02:12:42):
Means awakening from that amnesia and reuniting the lower self
with the higher self, the human with the divine. Wow, dude,
I've been saying this, Like I said this recently on
a cold episode where I was like, dude, I legit
believe that fallen angels. That's just whenever we happen to
uh uh be in this world and.

Speaker 5 (02:13:05):
Of this world right exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:13:07):
That makes the most sense to me.

Speaker 5 (02:13:09):
Wow, that's that's very fascinating. Fascinating, And with the Kingdom.

Speaker 1 (02:13:13):
Of Heaven being within you, you know what I mean
that that part of you that returns to the source
or returns to the whole.

Speaker 5 (02:13:21):
It's it's always there, ye know. It's it's the just fractalized.

Speaker 2 (02:13:26):
It's the foundational bedrock of all that exists.

Speaker 1 (02:13:29):
Right. That's cool. Yeah. And to quote Psalms chapter forty six,
verse ten, it says, be still and know that I
am God. Wow. And then it says not believe. No,
the realization of your true essence, oh big facis love it.

(02:13:51):
So then you have a salvation as integration, becoming whole again. So,
in esoteric Christianity, the Savior isn't someone outside of you,
but the Christ within the spark of divine awareness buried
under the egos programming. This is why Paul, you know,
whatever you think about Paul, this is what Paul says.
Christ is in you, the hope of glory. That's from Colossians.

(02:14:14):
So to be saved is to integrate your fragmented consciousness,
to heal the split between body, mind and spirit. The
Gnostics called this gnosis direct experiential knowledge of the divine
within yourself. When the opposites unite light and shadow, spirit
and matter, human and divine, the soul becomes whole again.
That wholeness is salvation. Wow. Holy shit.

Speaker 5 (02:14:41):
That's cool.

Speaker 1 (02:14:42):
Yeah, but let's just believe in a dead guy, you
know what I mean, Like, what do we do? Yeah,
I mean, you can nothing wrong with it.

Speaker 5 (02:14:49):
But well, I find it fascinating that there's even that
kind of information in there, you know what I mean, Like,
there has to be some truth in there to make
it even hold water.

Speaker 1 (02:15:00):
You know. Well, now you know why the Gnostics were
all killed back in those days, dude. You know they
were hunted for this because it disagreed with the government
of religion of Rome back in the day. Holy shit,
Because if you knew that this was something that you
could do on your own and you know, unite yourself
with the field of consciousness or whatever, then what do

(02:15:24):
you need to be governed by the Roman Empire for? Right?

Speaker 5 (02:15:28):
You wouldn't need that.

Speaker 2 (02:15:29):
You don't need that shit.

Speaker 1 (02:15:30):
Wow. Right, So this is where we're going to get
it even a little bit weirder. So salvation would also
be awakening from the dream or liberation from the matrix.
So from a metaphysical perspective, the world that humanity must
be saved from isn't the Earth itself, or isn't from

(02:15:51):
Earth itself. It's the illusion of separation. And identification with form.
Jesus's constant refrain of awake or the Kingdom of Heaven
is within you points to this that salvation is awakening
from the dream of matter. So in Gnostic texts, the arkans,
which would be the rulers of the lower realms, represent

(02:16:13):
the forces that keep souls trapped in the illusion through ignorance, fear,
and desire.

Speaker 5 (02:16:19):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:16:22):
And even in this it's saying that matter is the dream,
you know, like, oh wow.

Speaker 5 (02:16:28):
Yeah, dude.

Speaker 2 (02:16:30):
So therefore salvation is g nosis seeing through their veil,
realizing that you are not the character in the simulation,
but the consciousness that is running it.

Speaker 1 (02:16:40):
Wow, dude, that's that's pretty powerful, man. So we live
in a dream. We fucking live in a dream, is
what I'm trying to say here. In so, and then
it goes even farther a couple a couple more ways.
So if you want to look at salvation through an
alchemical lens, even so, in hermitic and alchemical terms, salvation

(02:17:01):
is transmutation. Of course, of course we all we all
know this. So turning the lead of the ego into
gold of the divine awareness, the crucifixion and resurrection symbolize
this process that where the ego must die so that
the true self can resurrect into higher consciousness. It's not
about punishment, it's about the It's the universal pattern of

(02:17:23):
transformation represented in every initiatory path. So the cross then
would equal the intersection of spirit going vertical and matter
going horizontal. Yeah wow, And the resurrection would be the
spirit mastering matter.

Speaker 2 (02:17:42):
So when the initiate unites these forces, they ascend beyond duality.
That is the great work or that is the great
work and the true meaning of being saved. How could
you just look at that and be like, nah, that
ain't it now, that's wrong and close dude.

Speaker 5 (02:18:04):
Even sniffing and see you right now, you're so far gone.

Speaker 1 (02:18:08):
Yeah, programming right exactly, take a step away from the
thick sharpie, you know, right, Like that'll deal so crazy.
So then you have a salvation as freedom from the wheel.
It says so across esoteric systems, Christian mysticism, narcissism, hermeticism,

(02:18:28):
and even parallels and Eastern thought. Salvation means freedom from
the cycle of bondage, the reincarnative wheel, karmic repetition.

Speaker 2 (02:18:38):
In the lower or the lower world of cause and effect.
It's not a ticket to heaven.

Speaker 1 (02:18:43):
It's a state of consciousness where the soul no longer
identifies with form, desire, or fear. When the false self dissolves,
only the external remains. So to quote Matthew or the
Book of Matthew, and in the Bible it says, who's ever, uh,
whose ever shall lose his life for my sake shall

(02:19:04):
find it, So basically to say that lose the false life,
the ego illusion, to awake within the eternal life within. Wow,
isn't it crazy? You can look at things a million
different ways. Oh?

Speaker 5 (02:19:17):
Absolutely, I mean that's just how that's just how this
whole system was built. Man. You know, like, if we
were all the same, like I said, in consciousness it
literally wants to experience everything, you know, So why would
we all be the same I'd be boring, right if
we all just believed exactly the same thing and did
exactly the same thing.

Speaker 1 (02:19:36):
That's not now, dude. Yeah, I'm good on that. I'm
super good on that. So with that being said, in
the esoteric view, salvation isn't an event. It's an awakening.
It's when the dreamer realizes that they are dreaming and
for the first time sees the world as it truly

(02:19:56):
is a projection of divine mind, and that that's why
the mystics say you don't go to heaven when you die,
you will waken to heaven when you realize who you are.
Oh that's cool. Hell yeah dude, all duh man, So
one day, dude, we're all gonna find out. You know,

(02:20:17):
It's like, I'm not even worried about it. I think
it'd be It's gonna be good. Dude. Dude. There's one more.
There's this little video that I wanted to share of
this guy. His name is the Spiritual Growth guy on TikTok.
I wanted to share his message here. It's less than
a minute long, but ok, I thought it'd be a
good end cap. So let's see what he has to
say here.

Speaker 3 (02:20:36):
The physical reality that you're experiencing right now is a
product of your imagination. No human being has ever or
could possibly ever directly experience physical reality. You are not
looking at a screen directly right now. You're experiencing a
mental model of a screen that your mind has created
for you. This is basic neuroscience. A physical, objective reality

(02:20:57):
is absolutely, positively not required for you to have the
experience that you're having right now. Your own mind has
already demonstrated to you that it can create a universe,
place your conscious awareness inside of its own creation, and
disconnect you from the memory of creating it, along with
a lot of other memories. If you've had a dream before,
you've already experienced this. Your own mind has created an

(02:21:19):
earth for you to walk on, a body with a
brain in five senses, and other people for you to
talk to and interact with as if they're somehow separate
from you. But all of these things were created out
of what your own consciousness.

Speaker 1 (02:21:32):
Dun, dun, dun, And then you wake up from the
dream and totally forget all about it.

Speaker 2 (02:21:38):
Yeah yeah, right, so crazy, Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:21:43):
Basically to say that it is highly, in my opinion,
probable that life is but a dream, so.

Speaker 5 (02:21:52):
Probable and preferable, and I think.

Speaker 1 (02:21:55):
That whenever people were talking about it being a matrix
or a hologram or a simulation or something like that, dude,
for me, the dream just it makes the most amount
of sense out of those options.

Speaker 5 (02:22:08):
Mm hmmm. Yeah, you've been saying it for a while too,
before we even got this near this far. You know
you've been saying the whole life being a dream. And
this was before getting into any of this information. That
was just kind of like a nosis s.

Speaker 2 (02:22:22):
If you will well and you know, I'll tell you.

Speaker 1 (02:22:24):
I think where where I probably came up with that was, uh,
would do whenever I first met Jacob So I was.
I did the cult for like six months before Jacob
became my co host, right yeah, and but then I
eventually ended up meeting him. He was a guest first,
like once or twice, and then you know, Hat ended
up leaving my original co host and uh, and then

(02:22:46):
Jacob was like, yo, you need a new co host.
I was like yes, And because he was, you know,
very knowledgeable about a lot of things and being expeditorial minded,
it was perfect.

Speaker 5 (02:22:55):
Definitely.

Speaker 2 (02:22:55):
It was like the perfect storm.

Speaker 1 (02:22:56):
Oh and and so uh. But but Jacob I would
always ask him. I would be like, yo, man, how's
your day going? Or you know, what's up today? And
he goes, oh, you know, living life one nightmare at
a time, and I would just think, like, man, what
if it is kind of a dream, you know, like
in that sense, like cause you know, whenever you're having
a bad day, I mean it's pretty fucking reminiscent of

(02:23:17):
a nightmare at that point, right, Like, y, what more
could go wrong?

Speaker 2 (02:23:22):
Like one of those things.

Speaker 5 (02:23:23):
Yeah, once you accept it as being a nightmare, it's
gonna be a nightmare until.

Speaker 1 (02:23:26):
You go back to sleep.

Speaker 5 (02:23:28):
Like very rarely do you just like halfway through the
day turn that shit around if you let it get
to a certain point, yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (02:23:35):
Yeah, if you're not aware, and if you're not aware
that you can transmute it.

Speaker 2 (02:23:40):
And that's the thing is that.

Speaker 1 (02:23:41):
The more the more you feed into it, the harder
it is to transmute. So it's really good to catch
it like as soon as you possibly can. Otherwise, dude,
it's like, you know, you can tell yourself in your
mind that like I'm gonna transmute this.

Speaker 2 (02:23:55):
I'm gonna transmute this.

Speaker 1 (02:23:56):
But like if you're not taking the steps of actually
doing that transmutation, or if you're just like, you know what,
I'm gonna see how my life goes if I just
let this domino, you know, continue to fall and knock
down other dominoes. I want to see how far, you know,
deep in the shit that I can get to try
and transmute because I've done that a couple of times,
just to why not, you know, just like a little exercise.

Speaker 5 (02:24:19):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (02:24:19):
It is hard.

Speaker 1 (02:24:20):
It's like, you know that first thing that that happens
that like, all right, this is the first thing that
like I could transmute, right, you know, maybe you stub
your toe or whatever, you get a bad text in
the morning or something like that. If you don't automatically
transmute it. It's almost like you know, you're you're sitting
at the weight bench and the first thing is just

(02:24:41):
lifting the bar, you know what I'm saying, Like it's
like not even that big of a deal. It's the
first thing. Hey, there's still a lot of great potential
for the rest of the day. It's pretty light, you know,
but you let that shit stack up. You're stacking on
plate after plate after plate after plate, and it don't
matter how optimistic you are, Like it is going to
be a mother forward. You gotta come out with that
mom's strength to lift that car up for your baby girls,

(02:25:03):
you know what I'm saying, Like, it's a whole process,
and so it's good to catch it real early. Oh yeah,
for sure.

Speaker 5 (02:25:09):
For share.

Speaker 1 (02:25:10):
Yeah, dude, So just getting back over the chat before
we get to the Tarot card here. Uh, Supermarke, He said,
that's the message of Tarot, right, the fool is remembering
that he is the magus. Yes, yeah, dude, angel of
darkness giving a false message. I do feel like that,

(02:25:33):
Ben said a man. Britt said, how many of y'all
told the people in your dream that it was all
a dream? And what happened after you did that? Oh,
this is gonna be a fun thread, Brit said, I've
done it a couple of times here lately, and when
I do, everyone in the room just freezes and they're
all staring at me. But I seem to forget about
my revelation rather quickly and I wake up or move

(02:25:56):
to the next dream.

Speaker 5 (02:25:58):
I don't have lucid dreams was very often, man, you know,
I just I just go and fall full into the illusion. Man,
you know, I'm just like, this is real. I don't
even you know.

Speaker 1 (02:26:09):
This is a real time.

Speaker 2 (02:26:10):
A few times a year I get them, it's not
extremely often.

Speaker 1 (02:26:13):
Yeah, and yeah, I definitely need to get a dream journal, dude,
and just start bringing my awareness fully into the dream.

Speaker 5 (02:26:20):
You know, got drink that apple juice before bed too.
I think something. Man, shit, people are out there lucid dreaming,
you know, like, oh, I told the people within my
dream it was a dream, and then they started like, what,
that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:26:34):
Well, I think that, and I could be wrong on this,
but I remember reading about it that the idea of
like drinking apple juice is that there's certain some kind
of nutrients in there. I can't remember exactly what it was,
but I think it's primarily the sugar content. I would
say that, like, yeah, whenever you go to sleep and
you drink that apple juice, it's like it's not allowing
your brain to turn all the way off right, It's

(02:26:57):
like leaving a little crack in the door.

Speaker 5 (02:27:00):
And I think two and I forget, of course, what
culture this was, what people this was as far they
would they would actually go to sleep at I don't know,
seven o'clock at night, and then they would get up
on purpose at midnight and get up and have tea
and do like just have like a that they called
it midnight, you know, and they would just start doing

(02:27:21):
things and read a book or whatever, and then they
would go back to sleep at like three and then
wake up.

Speaker 1 (02:27:25):
And so I feel like those people.

Speaker 5 (02:27:27):
Knew what was going on in the dream realm, because
I feel like when you wake up, like if, like
you said, if you drink the apple juice, Sure, the
sugar content, I'm sure that probably plays a hand in that,
but also maybe you have to go pee in the
middle of the night. I feel like the nights that
I get up in the middle of the night to
go pee are the nights that I have some crazy
dream and I remember it, And so I think there's

(02:27:48):
something playing with that as far as bringing consciousness or
becoming aware after a dream and then going back to sleep. Well,
I think.

Speaker 1 (02:27:56):
What's really going on with that is that you're disrupting
your because most of the time, whenever you're dreaming, it's
because of the REM sleep and REM is just your
rapid eye movement. So when you have that rapid eye movement,
you know you're typically seeing something within the dream or
something like that. And and so if you disrupt that
because your bladder's full, then it's probably the easiest to

(02:28:18):
be able to pull information from there because.

Speaker 5 (02:28:20):
You're just visiting it. You were there right exactly maybe.

Speaker 1 (02:28:24):
Where Whereas like you know, if you get a full
night's sleep, you've already gone through rem and.

Speaker 2 (02:28:28):
Maybe it was a couple hours ago that you had
to dream, you know, Like.

Speaker 1 (02:28:32):
I don't know. Supermarket said, I've never done that. Definitely
want to know. Brid said, I wasn't intentionalizing. I wasn't
intentionally doing it, but it just happened, and I was
so excited when I did it. In the moment, Marcus said,
anytime I get looseid, I just get excited. The last
time I even entertain are the other people in my dreams? Oh,

(02:28:52):
the last thing I even entertained. Just take advantage. You're like,
this is great, Bridd said, as soon as that happens
from me, I start scanning the whole scenery to see
what changes and what I can physically affect with my thoughts.
That's cool, Mark, he said, same, I'm gonna take a
page out of yearbook and go tell them that they're
not real, they're just part of my dream, and see
what they do.

Speaker 5 (02:29:13):
Right. Yeah, dude, I've heard also like if you ask
somebody in your dream what time is it or something
like that, something to that effect, like nobody, like the
aspect or the entire understanding of time just doesn't even
exist there, so they just start looking at you weird.

Speaker 1 (02:29:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's there's something really weird about that. It's
like a forbidden thing, you know that you can't ask
them what time it is. I've tried that once and
it was like real spooky, like they just got that
guy over there, and then you go over there and
they're like, I don't know that's this guy. Like just
keep passing this.

Speaker 2 (02:29:46):
And be like, look at your watch and tell.

Speaker 1 (02:29:48):
Me what time it is. Messing with me, dude, yeah,
like you think this is a game. But anyhow, Sean,
I'm curious about what that tarot card is.

Speaker 5 (02:29:59):
Sir. We got and we don't get this very often,
but we got the page of wands. Oh I don't
remember the last time we got this.

Speaker 1 (02:30:07):
The page of wands. All right, So the page of
wands says the message of Fire brings exciting news, or
the Messenger of Fire brings exciting news. Be open to
adventurous opportunities. The page of wands is full of youthful
energy and may represent a child or younger person, or
even a message from your own inner child, urging you

(02:30:29):
to be more playful and adventurous. The young page stands
still gazing at his wand as if he is imagining
its endless uses. It is unusual to see him in
a motionless contemplation, a posture that reveals his connection to
the earth element. He is both grounded and curious, a
combination that allows him to play without getting hurt, as

(02:30:51):
noted on his tunic by the salamanders creatures with fireproof skin.
Interesting that childlike mine, right there. Man, got to have
it some time times. Man. So yeah, you have the
upright key meanings, which would stand for impulsiveness and sense
of adventure.

Speaker 2 (02:31:08):
I like it as a kid would be.

Speaker 1 (02:31:11):
And the spiritual message says an exciting time of new
beginnings is on its way, but it will require a
grounded approach. Try not to over commit yourself. Take a
pause before responding, and make sure you have the time
and energy to follow through your agreements. Get in touch
with your own get in touch with your inner child
by revisiting the activities you love when you were young.
Spending time with actual children can also be very healing

(02:31:34):
for you. I feel like we did just get this
actually now that I'm thinking about it, but still, you know, yeah,
that was a relatively recent one. I think it was
all right, well solid, well, and if you think about it,
you know, the childlike mind. I mean they're not looking
at material reality in the way the grown ups are. No,
they're not like cemented within foundational beliefs. It all kind

(02:31:57):
of is a dream, I mean literally, and of their
what's going on in their mind is imagination.

Speaker 5 (02:32:03):
It's pretend and time travel.

Speaker 1 (02:32:05):
And yeah, you could be anything, man, Yeah, yeah, I
mean playing with playing with barbies or army men or wrestlers,
or you know, playing out of the dirt or you know,
in the sandbox whatever. Right like, it's always something more
than what the physical reality is presenting itself to be. Oh.

Speaker 5 (02:32:23):
Absolutely. I just had this memory of whenever you came
to visit, you know, in a in Mesa, and we
were over by the pool area, but we weren't we
weren't swimming this day, you know, we were like you know,
I don't know if you remember, but like this whole
back area was covered in like this huge river rock
and we were like walking around over there.

Speaker 1 (02:32:42):
I don't know if you remember this, but I I
had that.

Speaker 5 (02:32:44):
Memory today and I was thinking about that, and in
that time it was so like vivid and like I
just remember because we were hanging out and it was
fucking awesome, you know, and then all of a sudden,
here I am and I'm like, whe where where did
all let time go?

Speaker 1 (02:33:00):
Dude?

Speaker 5 (02:33:01):
It was just like yesterday, it felt like yeah, I
don't know, it was just the memory that that happened today,
and I was just like, Wow, it's funny fucking time go, man.

Speaker 2 (02:33:10):
And that's the thing is that you hear.

Speaker 1 (02:33:12):
You know a lot of older people will say that, like, man,
time just flies by, you know, like it's seventy years
ago or sixty years ago. Feels like it was, you know,
a couple of years ago, like real recent in that sense. Yeah,
it's like that.

Speaker 5 (02:33:26):
The memory is so vivid and strong, you know, and
then it's just like here you are, dude. You know,
so you gotta you gotta really try not to take
things for granted, man, you know, because before you know it,
that's it. And then you're gonna find out what what
re merging with the uh the source consciousness really is.
And would that do?

Speaker 1 (02:33:45):
Fucking Ben said, Uh, you just led me to the
Lord better than any preacher I've heard.

Speaker 5 (02:33:53):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (02:33:54):
Britt said, why are dreams so much more fun than reality?

Speaker 1 (02:33:57):
Usually? It's Steve imagine nation, man, yeah, it's more fluid.
I think, no restrictions. Yeah, and then, oh god, BRIT's
trying to fuck with our mind here?

Speaker 5 (02:34:09):
What if all?

Speaker 1 (02:34:10):
What if we are all barbies and army men that
other people are playing with? Likely?

Speaker 5 (02:34:17):
I feel likely?

Speaker 2 (02:34:18):
Yeah, you know, you listen to Bob Lazar says that
we're just containers.

Speaker 1 (02:34:22):
So yeah, I mean yeah, who knows anymore? Yeah, dude, anyhow, Look,
I think we're going to get over to the meditation.
We want to thank everybody for coming to join us
here for the Wonder Wiz Day. If you're interested in
joining us next one, next Wonder Wiz Day, just come
over to patreon dot com slash metamistics. That link is
down the show notes below. We have a promo going

(02:34:44):
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(02:35:05):
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Speaker 2 (02:35:22):
We really appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (02:35:23):
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It's a big deal, So yeah, we appreciate that. Also,
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(02:35:46):
fun jazz, all those links down the show notes below.

Speaker 2 (02:35:48):
Go give us a follow like some of our shit.
As we said, algorithm.

Speaker 1 (02:35:52):
Likes that kind of stuff.

Speaker 5 (02:35:53):
So yeah, that's just how it works.

Speaker 1 (02:35:55):
Man.

Speaker 2 (02:35:56):
Yeah, I dud so.

Speaker 1 (02:35:57):
I think with that being said, Sean, any parting words
for you, sir? Do you think that this reality is
closer to a dream now than it was a couple
hours ago before we started the show.

Speaker 5 (02:36:06):
Oh, absolutely, for sure. I mean I feel like that
always happens in these episodes, you know, But I feel like,
like I've said before, it's impossible to know for sure.
I mean, eventually we'll know, but at that point it
won't matter, you know. And uh, but yeah, I felt
it definitely, definitely, Yeah, it's definitely uh preferable. I feel
like it opens you up to more opportunities and and

(02:36:29):
you know that you realize how how much potential there is,
you know, with with transmuting and really just connecting and
understanding that, like you're so much more than what the
the the illusion that you've put over your face.

Speaker 2 (02:36:44):
You know, it's just a temporary mask, you know.

Speaker 5 (02:36:47):
That's it, man, That's it.

Speaker 1 (02:36:49):
So yeah, I guess we're gonna get over to the meditation,
but I guess we'll leave it right there. Anybody else,
anybody else want to, you know, chime in? Do you
are we think that this life is more fluid like
a dream?

Speaker 2 (02:37:03):
I mean, do we believe that.

Speaker 1 (02:37:04):
Consciousness proceeds matter and not the other way around?

Speaker 2 (02:37:08):
Mark?

Speaker 5 (02:37:09):
What are we crazy? Or what? What's going on? Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:37:14):
All right, yeah, dude, well, look, if the dream world
came here and it taught.

Speaker 2 (02:37:20):
You anything, it's that you don't know what you don't know,
So don't just get weird.

Speaker 1 (02:37:27):
Stay weird, all right, Well that was an interesting one, dude.
She chripped me out whenever she was like, there's nothing
to hold on to here, so just let all the

(02:37:47):
way go. I was like, wait a minute, Wait a minute,
nothing to hold on to Wait a minute. Yeah yeah, dude,
I almost like, I like, because you know, you're in
such a suggestive state, and you know, the goal is
to be as suggestive as possible whenever you're in the
you know, the guided meditations and you know, regularly hypnosis

(02:38:07):
and stuff like that, and so I get so suggestive
that like it's like magic words, you know, to me
in my mind. And dude, whenever she said that there's
nothing to hold on to here, dude, I almost passed out,
like like I almost fainted, like it was almost left,
like I like my consciousness almost just escaped. Like man,

(02:38:29):
that was that was It was weird too. Have you
ever fainted before? No, dude, I have twice in my
life really yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:38:38):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:38:38):
The first time was whenever I was getting a tattoo
actually to not to sell or anything, but she was
like getting up here on the shoulder, and I started
getting real hot and real sick, and I felt like
something was about to happen, and I went I went
into the into the I was like, all right, I
need to go use the restroom real quick because I
didn't want to like faint in front of her.

Speaker 4 (02:38:58):
You know.

Speaker 5 (02:38:58):
It was also it was like like a real man, dude.

Speaker 1 (02:39:01):
It was it was my homies girlfriend that was doing it,
my my buddy who played football with me, right and
it was his girl. I was like, I'm not trying
to look like a bitch in front of him, you know.
And so I went to the bathroom. I was just like,
let me throw some water on my face. And the
next thing I remember, I'm passed out, Like my head
is next to the toilet.

Speaker 2 (02:39:19):
I pulled the shower curtain down.

Speaker 5 (02:39:20):
I don't even remember my god.

Speaker 2 (02:39:22):
Yeah, dude, it was my first time.

Speaker 1 (02:39:24):
And I must not have been in there very long
because whenever I came to, nobody was like asking. And
I walked out there and nobody was acting like they
realized I was gone for very long.

Speaker 2 (02:39:32):
So I was like, oh, well, I'm just gonna act.

Speaker 5 (02:39:34):
Like that didn't happen, Just pretend that didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (02:39:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:39:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:39:36):
And then another time was I sprained my ankle real
bad in a football game once and and it hurt
like a bach and it ballooned up, right, So I
had cankles there for a couple of days. Yeah, And well,
I whenever I woke up the next day after the game,
I forgot about it and I went to go step
on it, like step on, dude, it hurts so damn

(02:39:59):
bad that I I just passed. I fainted right there.
Holy sh it's crazy how that happens. But yeah, I
kind of felt like that was starting to happen in thatnation.

Speaker 5 (02:40:09):
It's like your your brain trying to protect you from
experiencing that much pain all at once.

Speaker 1 (02:40:14):
Yeah, it's almost like you start to get like flashes
of anti light a thing. Oh wow, Yeah, I've never yeah,
I've never fainted.

Speaker 5 (02:40:24):
I don't know what that's like. Dude, that's a shrip, man, Yeah,
that's a trip.

Speaker 1 (02:40:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:40:29):
But it's you know, going back to the the suggestibility
aspect of that, Like that's the point of of that,
you know, especially when she's telling you to come up
with a symbol, you know, that you can see within
the dream, like you're you're imprinting a symbol in your
mind so that when you see it in the dream,
you don't even have to.

Speaker 1 (02:40:48):
Be aware of it.

Speaker 5 (02:40:50):
It'll just like trigger something and you it'll it'll bring
you back to this, this moment of trying to suggest
that to yourself that you're trying to lucid dream. And so, yeah,
I didn't experience anything, anything crazy or anything like that,
but but yeah, that's uh, you know, it's funny. The
symbol that that, for some reason, out of nowhere, it

(02:41:10):
was just the first thing that came to mind was
like the little pac Man logo, you know, like the
little yellow circle with the little piece ticking.

Speaker 1 (02:41:16):
Out of it.

Speaker 5 (02:41:17):
So for whatever reason, that was the symbol that if
I see that, then I know, okay, time to lucid dream.

Speaker 1 (02:41:23):
You know, dude, am I tripping?

Speaker 2 (02:41:28):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:41:29):
You are? Yes, But I thought I thought that the
peace symbol was like one line and then two lines.

Speaker 5 (02:41:37):
No, I think it's like three lines and then a
line coming off of it.

Speaker 1 (02:41:41):
I think. Okay, So I don't know why I thought that,
you know, because the symbol that you know, that popped
into my mind was a peace symbol, and I was like.

Speaker 5 (02:41:48):
That's weird.

Speaker 1 (02:41:48):
Thinking the Mercedes logo, I was like, that's weird.

Speaker 2 (02:41:51):
It has three lines at the bottom.

Speaker 1 (02:41:53):
I don't know why I was thinking in my mind
that it was only two lines at the bottom, but anyway, yeah,
and it reminded me not so much necessarily.

Speaker 2 (02:41:59):
Let me show you an image of this.

Speaker 1 (02:42:01):
Literally, this is what I like, what I saw in
my mind, and so I even typed it in. I
was like a crow's foot peace symbol, and legit, this
this is the literal the actual symbol that popped in up.
I've never seen this in my life really, but this
is the actual symbol that came to my mind. Was
like like, oh wow, I just remember thinking it's like

(02:42:22):
a peace symbol, but it's more of like a crow's foot.
Oh wow, isn't that weird?

Speaker 5 (02:42:27):
The hell? I wonder what that means. You know what
it means, dude, We're all connected. You've seen this symbol before,
all right? Yeah, that's all it.

Speaker 1 (02:42:35):
Is to it.

Speaker 5 (02:42:36):
It's so weird.

Speaker 1 (02:42:37):
I wonder if there's something to that.

Speaker 5 (02:42:38):
Yeah, no, there definitely is. Man. Yeah, that was I
was thinking because she was like you're about to go
to sleep, you know. I'm like, oh shit, I got
a podcast right after this.

Speaker 2 (02:42:49):
What was the symbol that you said you saw?

Speaker 5 (02:42:51):
Just the pac man, like like the circle, you know,
with the peace taking out of it like a pac Man.

Speaker 1 (02:42:57):
When you see that, remember, you know you know what
time it is. It's embedded now.

Speaker 5 (02:43:03):
Yeah, would you see Mark or markie.

Speaker 6 (02:43:05):
The what is it? The the Egyptian Cross, the honk
or whatever?

Speaker 1 (02:43:11):
The honk?

Speaker 5 (02:43:12):
That's bad boy.

Speaker 7 (02:43:13):
I didn't know what it was at first.

Speaker 1 (02:43:14):
I was like, why, Like it looks it looks like
the cross, but it's not.

Speaker 5 (02:43:18):
Yeah right, yeah, man, let's see.

Speaker 4 (02:43:23):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:43:23):
Brit said, what do y'all think about trying to intentionalize
certain thoughts as a group? Yes, like healing someone or
bring or bringing a job or wealth, et cetera, and
see what happens like an experiment. I know y'all have
heard of the power of eight. Not tonight but in
the future.

Speaker 2 (02:43:40):
Yes, Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 (02:43:41):
It's so funny too, because I literally had that thought
earlier this week. I was like, can I bet you
that we could if any if any group can do it,
you know, like we oh for sure, dude.

Speaker 5 (02:43:51):
Define would that be. I mean if everything comes from
the thought anyways, in consciousness.

Speaker 6 (02:43:55):
I feel like what you're talking about, like that happens
in church and collectively somebody praise everybody bring in their
consciousness on the same like waveling.

Speaker 1 (02:44:08):
Crazy stuff happens.

Speaker 5 (02:44:10):
Bro Oh, I believe it happened.

Speaker 1 (02:44:12):
It's like, what does it say, like whenever two or
more or three or more gathering my name and you
know what I mean, Like, I think there's something to it.
I think that's why like the CE five ship works.
You know, people you gather like a big uh five
is like you go out into the middle of the desert,
in the middle of the desert and you meditate together
to try and get in contact with aliens. Oh, people

(02:44:35):
start seeing shit.

Speaker 2 (02:44:38):
Stephen Grew I think. I don't know if he's the
one that created it.

Speaker 1 (02:44:41):
I think he did.

Speaker 5 (02:44:43):
He definitely charges a lot of money to go out
there and do that with him, though you don't have
to go. I looked into it and I was like
just to see, you know, and I was like, oh wow, a.

Speaker 1 (02:44:53):
Little bit pricey for you know.

Speaker 6 (02:44:57):
Did you guys are do you guys plan on doing
the uh that Brohemian grove thing is that are they
doing that this year?

Speaker 1 (02:45:04):
It already happen. We did it back in Uh when
was that June? I think, well, you and Jacob me
and yeah, me and Jacob did.

Speaker 6 (02:45:11):
Yeah, that was what I thought of them Halloween.

Speaker 2 (02:45:16):
Uh last year it was.

Speaker 1 (02:45:18):
But they're they're doing multiple per year, so that was
like the earlier one, and I guess I don't know.
I haven't heard confirmation that it's going to be again
this year, you know, in the fall, But I don't know. Actually,
me and Jacob said that we probably weren't going to
be going anymore to those because it's not necessarily our
brand to put it lightly, to put it lightly, not

(02:45:40):
even trying to be descriptive, but it's not our brand
of conspiracy.

Speaker 2 (02:45:44):
It's more of.

Speaker 1 (02:45:45):
A it's very degenerate, and I'm I'm going to degenerate motherfucker, right,
but like that's next level degeneracy.

Speaker 2 (02:45:58):
Yeah, So, but I.

Speaker 1 (02:46:00):
Would at some point we can do our own thing though,
you know, yeah, yeah, I would love to be able
to start going to certain conferences, whether it be UFO
conferences or Flat Earth conferences or you know, yeah, like
the sy Games.

Speaker 6 (02:46:12):
I would love to go that meet that hippie guy
again in the woods or wherever in the park.

Speaker 1 (02:46:17):
Hippie Jimmy, Yeah, jim he'll be there, I'm sure, Yeah,
in spirit, if nothing else, not even real. I think
he just manifests, like you know what I mean, when
you show up, he was just like, oh.

Speaker 4 (02:46:28):
Likely your cat and Alice.

Speaker 1 (02:46:29):
I wonder why, Yeah, I kind of yeah, he just
appeared at the perfect time with the perfect message. And
I never saw him again.

Speaker 5 (02:46:36):
Yeah, instead of just a smile that appears you just
flip flops and then all of a sudden kind of
forms around that.

Speaker 2 (02:46:44):
Yeah, yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (02:46:45):
It was a weird fucking thing, dude, that was so
strange out of nowhere, right out the blue dude, and
for like not even wearing shoes, like yeah, just bardy
foot and he's connected, dude, super grounded barefoot on concrete
is next level, Like that's oh yeah, Actually, my my

(02:47:05):
daughter came up with you. I don't know if she
came up with them, but she like, instead of calling
them feet, she has like funny words for them, and
so she'll call them concrete clappers or you know, or
grass grippers, and just like these funny things that are
just so funny concrete slappers.

Speaker 5 (02:47:27):
That's perfect, uh.

Speaker 1 (02:47:29):
Brit said, right, if we all have the same thought,
it's got to do something, yes, of course, or you'll
meet another spirit in a different body to give you
a message you need.

Speaker 6 (02:47:39):
Yes, Like, what would be the idea to try to
bring into material?

Speaker 1 (02:47:49):
I guess well, I would think that it would probably
have to be something specific so that we can like
confirm that it works, you know.

Speaker 5 (02:47:58):
Yeah, and something that does and just happened all the time,
you know, because then you're gonna automatically go to well,
you know, of course that was gonna happen. You know,
it happens every month or something like that.

Speaker 1 (02:48:09):
You know. Well, that's why she was she was mentioning
like some kind of healing mm hmm. So that'd be sweet, Yeah,
something fun like that.

Speaker 2 (02:48:19):
Yeah, we should think about.

Speaker 1 (02:48:20):
That one of these days.

Speaker 5 (02:48:22):
No, I'm I'm on board, man, because I feel like it.
I mean, we've all had our own experiences individually, you know,
calling something out and then experiencing it almost immediately, and
so if all of us get together and do something
like that, it's almost guaranteed.

Speaker 1 (02:48:38):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:48:39):
Oh dude, that's what you know.

Speaker 1 (02:48:41):
Whenever me and Steph did the four Aco when we
were in Florida for the Brohemian Grove. I was like,
you know what, I got a fun idea. What I'm
gonna do is I'm gonna draw it. I'm gonna draw
a tarot card and whatever card comes out, We're just
going to think about it the entire time we're tripping
and see what kind of message can get you.

Speaker 2 (02:49:00):
And and it was the the.

Speaker 5 (02:49:04):
High p man.

Speaker 1 (02:49:05):
It was like High Priestess or something like that. And
so yeah, I mean we forgot about it, unfortunately, but.

Speaker 5 (02:49:12):
Of course it's a whole another world.

Speaker 6 (02:49:15):
Man.

Speaker 5 (02:49:16):
You know, you left the world you knew behind at
that point.

Speaker 1 (02:49:19):
Dude. Yeah, that was crazy, a fresh start. But anyway, look, yeah,
let's wrap this baby up. Like we said, if anybody
wants to be able to come and join it the
next time, just go to patreon dot com slash metamistics
that links down the show notes below and just joined
the wonder widzsdays here and you'll be able to.

Speaker 2 (02:49:35):
Come and hang out with us.

Speaker 1 (02:49:36):
And the best thing about Patreon is that it is
completely commercial free. So I know a lot of people
get sick of the commercials. That's why we created Patreon,
and also we're on YouTube. They have you know, commercials
and shit like that over there too, But you know, whatever,
however you want to follow us, we have many of
different ways for everybody to follow us, so we appreciate
everybody in that way. But yeah, I guess we'll see

(02:49:57):
all on the flip side, I guess see the small
farmer comp

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