July 13, 2024 • 37 mins
Karen Gravano is best known for her role on the VH1 reality TV series "Mob Wives," which follows the lives of women connected to mobsters. Born in 1972, she is the daughter of infamous mobster Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano, a former underboss of the Gambino crime family who became an FBI informant. This connection significantly influenced Karen's life and public persona.
After "Mob Wives" ended, Karen continued to stay in the public eye. She co-authored a memoir, "Mob Daughter: The Mafia, Sammy 'The Bull' Gravano, and Me," which became a New York Times Best Seller.
On RED, Karen shares what it like growing up in her family and why she decided to share her story not only on TV but in her book. Karen has some crazy stories that kept Michelle and Ashleigh at the edge of their seat! Don’t miss this compelling episode filled with unique insights and riveting tales from Karen's extraordinary life!
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After "Mob Wives" ended, Karen continued to stay in the public eye. She co-authored a memoir, "Mob Daughter: The Mafia, Sammy 'The Bull' Gravano, and Me," which became a New York Times Best Seller.
On RED, Karen shares what it like growing up in her family and why she decided to share her story not only on TV but in her book. Karen has some crazy stories that kept Michelle and Ashleigh at the edge of their seat! Don’t miss this compelling episode filled with unique insights and riveting tales from Karen's extraordinary life!
-----------------------------------------------------
Support Our Sponsors!
Rock and Roll Designs: Premium crystal and handmade jewelry designed to help you heal and connect with your mind, body, and soul. Explore the collection at https://rockandrolldesigns.org/
El Baston Del Ray: Life is Balance. Live what matters. Sip responsibly. https://bastondelrey.com/
-----------------------------------------------------
Subscribe to the podcast now: https://www.youtube.com/@michellebaroneredpodcast
Follow Michelle Barone
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michellebaroneonline/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@michellebarone?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc
Follow Ashleigh McPherson
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Check out RED for more: https://michellebaroneonline.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to rad RADD. It's MichelleBaron and I'm so excited to be here
with my co hosts Ashley mcfiercey ashyou ready for this one, ze.
This is one of my favorite topics. Get into it and find out all
the tay being Italian, you know, we know all about this, We've
seen it on TV. Not tooclose to our family, but definitely can't
wait to hear about your family,my friend. I am here with Karen
(00:20):
Gravana. Let's give it up forKaren. Karen, you are here,
you know, daughter of Sammy deBull. I can't imagine what it was
like growing up like that. Buttalking off air, we did talk a
(00:41):
little bit about being a traditional Italianfamily growing up yonder it was very traditional.
Yeah, Italian had to have dinnerevery night at five point thirty Sunday
saw us dinner. You know,it was very normal. Yeah, ever
happened outside the house didn't come inside. It's a leader, absolutely. So
I want to talk about your entirestory from the beginning. So when you
(01:04):
were little, traditional Italian family,when did you know that your family was
different, that the mob was apart of your family? Was your family?
So growing up I didn't really feeldifferent because everyone around me, their
families were involved in that, likemy cousins and you know, so we
were like a community. When Iwas about ten years old, one time
(01:26):
I had gone to school and Iwas invited over a friend's house to play
and we were outside and she goes, see that big house over there.
It was on Toad Hills, StatenIsland, you know, the real ritzy
area. And I was to thathouse that she was pointing to because it
was Paul Castellano's house, and I'mlike yeah, I was like all happy
like what she was going to talkabout, and she goes My family says,
I can't go over to the house. There's a gangster that lives in
(01:49):
there. And I'm like I didn'tknow what a gangster was. In my
mind, I'm like, oh,well, maybe my father's a gangster too.
And one day we could live ina big house in the hill.
So that was the first time Iever heard the word. And I remember
going home and asking my father andmother, I'm like, are you a
gangster? And he's like talking aboutwhere did you get this? And I
had told him this story and IMAwas like, no, he's in construction.
(02:12):
You know that's the typical yeah likething, yeah, family, but
he really was in construction and allfairness, he had multiple construction of businesses,
like to be honest and not inthe height of the eighties and nineties,
like my father was the go toman in construction for the mob.
He controlled the unions, he controlledyou know, multiple companies, and he's
(02:34):
a very powerful man. Yeah,and someone that you know a lot of
people in that industry looked up tofor sure. So you know, before
he became an informant, I wantto talk about what life was like at
home prior to after, because Iknow things changed a lot for you guys.
So let's talk about before you know, we're really the buzzes on the
street, like, hey, thisis what's going on. I know you
heard word gangster once, but whathappened after that? Like growing up and
(02:59):
how did you realized that your fatherwas Sammy the Bull. You know Staten
Island and I said this when westarted mob wives, I said, it's
the breeding ground for the mafia.It's like everyone moved to Brooklyn. So
growing up in Staten Island, likeyou know, people looked up to that
life. They looked up to myfather, and I did start to hear
like your father's and the mob andall this other stuff. Probably when I
(03:22):
was about sixteen and Pole Castellano waskilled, I knew. I was like,
yeah, he's a gangister. Whata gangster exactly was what he did
outside of the house. I stilldidn't have a full understanding, but that's
when I really started to understand thathis lifestyle was dangerous, that involved murder,
racketeering, whatever that was at thetime. But I at that point
(03:46):
is when I knew. And whatdid you feel like? You know,
you're a teenage girl, you havepeer pressure, you got a lot going
on yourself, and then you havethis dad with this moment where it hit
you. You know, like wow, did you feel like you know?
I really didn't feel too much,because, like I said, there was
still people that were like me.Yep, I grew up and surrounded by
(04:10):
people with fathers in that lifestyle.So maybe it's just so I also grew
up in a community where people lookedup to these men. So whatever.
Now I'm not just talking you know, the construction industry and things that he
controlled or people that feared him.We would go to restaurants and there would
be old women and people that lookedup to them. And you know,
to my knowledge and how is explainedto me later in life, was the
(04:33):
mob was, you know, protectorsof their communities. So growing up in
an Italian neighborhood, you know,whether it was the old lady down the
block or you know, they myfather helped people with construction and he took
care of his community. So therewas a lot of respect and a lot
of love that I seen him getand fear, but mostly from where I
(04:56):
stood, it was mostly like loveand respect. So I thought, if
he's a person, he can't reallybe that bad because he gets a lot
of love. So it was away that I was able to rationalize it,
yep in my brain. Well,you know, it's interesting because in
the Italian culture they are the protectorsand it and at that time period it
was it was very respected. Youknow, it came with a lot of
(05:17):
power too, and a lot ofmoney and a lot of knowledge, and
it was kind of like, youknow, you don't touch the families of
the higher ups, and that wasthat and being in that family, I
can just imagine, you know,the allure that you have going out in
the community It's like it's them,right, right. People knew. Yeah,
And it's funny that you say thatbecause I kind of, like like
(05:41):
Renee on Mob Wives, she fedinto that she loved being a gangster's daughter.
She walked in a club and said, do you know who my father
is? And feed into that wholething where I was more of the kid
that was sneaking out and doing thingsthat I wasn't supposed to be doing.
So I kind of stayed away fromit. I didn't want anyone to know.
People were like you, Sammy's don'tno. So yeah, it was
(06:04):
just you know, like I said, I had a very normal childhood,
abnormal with certain things that I seen, but I was able to rationalize it.
I mean, I did grow upand I said this in a couple
of episodes surrounded by like murder,and I know that's crazy to say,
but it's something that was I seenon the regular, and I was able
(06:27):
to rationalize it and understand it tomy ability to be able to say,
Okay, you know, maybe myfather's involved in some of this stuff,
but maybe not because he just actedso normal. Right. It was like
it was collective no matter what,So there was always that question and always
teetered in my brain like back andforth. But I never looked at him
as like a bad person or Ilooked at him as my provider, my
(06:49):
protector. And my father has likea very cool demeanor, like he didn't
walk into place and everyone feared him. He was like, hey, buddy,
hey he's mad down, he chrismatic. He was a jokester still to
this day, which is actually kindof embarrassing. I see I see him
on social media and I'm like,what is this man gonna say? But
you never know it's gonna come outof his mouth, and that's just who
(07:11):
he always think. He had anability to make people feel calm and comfortable
around him, but if you crossedhim, he also could kill you in
like zero point one second without andso being around that, you know,
like you said, you were ina neighborhood all Italian, it was it
was normal. Everyone was going throughit, you know, going to a
different heritage, a neighborhood with differentheritage. It may not have been that
(07:33):
case, but for you it seemedpretty normal. Growing up past that and
trying to date, what was thatlike for you? Oh, I can
only imagine that was like terrifying foreveryboy. I'm like, you know,
you bring somebody home, they mightend up in the construction company. I
did have a boyfriend that had towork for the construction job, and his
(07:55):
mother was like horrified. Like everytime he's like, don't have a fight
with her, don't do that.You know, he was in our house,
like, he had dinner with us, He went on vacations with us.
So one thing about my father is, you know, obviously he's a
father, so if someone does somethingto his daughter, he's going to do
something. But he didn't put hisgangster into that. You know, as
(08:16):
a father, wholeheartedly he's going toprotect his family. But you know he
was also he didn't play the gangsterrole with my boyfriends. That yeah,
that's good. Well, because themob life is an organization, right,
it's completely strategic. It's not likethey're just often people left and right.
Right. It's if someone crosses ordoesn't pay their debt, or doesn't treat
someone right, or who loses therespect right, it's all those things and
(08:39):
it's not one time or two.This is like, it's a very strategic
approach. It's a business. Well, you joined something that you know the
consequences of correct And I always saythis, everybody that got involved in that
lifestyle went in willingly. They wantedto be part of that. And you
know, the way the Mob,I guess was explained to my father,
The way he view it was itwas a brotherhood, you know, and
(09:01):
we protect our own and you know, coming here, especially coming from Italy,
when a lot of Italians came over, they were immigrants, they had
it hard. So the Mob actuallykind of formed to be able to break
into the construction industry, the garmentindustry, and it was really to help,
you know, like an organization,like you said, it was to
be able to take care of it. That's why it was a family,
(09:22):
it was. It was structured afterthat, you know. And speaking of
that, it's so interesting because theywould help find jobs for immigrants, they
would house them if they needed it. You bring your cousin over and they're
working on the farm, but thenext one's working in the construction company.
Right. So it was really thegood intent, but all you heard about
was the bad stuff, right.And there was a lot of empathy behind
closed doors, right, Like allthe wives were friends, and so what
(09:45):
was it like being on mob?Wives and what role do you think did
you portray the role you wanted toportray on television or did you hold back
a little. It was So it'skind of funny because how Mob Wives came
to be was Jennifer and I,which Jennifer was an executive producer for Mob
Wives. We were actually talking aboutdoing like a scripted show or maybe a
(10:09):
movie, and like we were puttingsome things together and she came to me
one day and she said, listen, I'm pitching this idea about women whose
husbands went to prison. Someone hadcontacted her they were doing the show,
and she said, they came tome to cast. What do you think
about Drita And I said, oh, she's a character on TV. And
she's like, what about Renee?I said no, definitely. So anyway,
to make a long story short,I actually came in and they filmed
(10:33):
the sizzle reel. We were alltogether. We filmed the sizzle reel.
And you know, people don't knowthat. They think, like the first
time I ever came back was thatscene that you've seen, But we filmed
the sissle reel. But I likethat you filmed the sizzlereel together and to
see where it started where it went. He is iconic. I mean that's
incredible because it was an iconic sizzlerel. And I think the thing about us
is like it was the height ofreality TV, and we weren't just a
(10:54):
cast that was ensembled and put togetherand made to interact with each other like
we had history, like deep rootedhistory. So when we did that sizzle
reel, I was in it,of course, and Jennifer's like, oh,
just come in it because the guythat was actually behind it was like,
we have to get Karen and Iwas like, absolutely not. I'm
not doing reality TV. I haveway too much baggage like everyone and I'm
(11:18):
not saying this in a downplaying them, but no one knew who they were,
so like, I'm coming with thewhole Sammy the Bull, John Gottie
baggage, and I'm gonna get it'snot happening. Well fast forward. All
of a sudden, the sizzlereel comesout. It's great, like we're going
on pitches and everyone's like okay.So it went from and it wasn't supposed
to be called mob wives at all. It was supposed to be about women
overcoming stuff and people still husbands orfamily members went to prison. And then
(11:43):
you know, that whole housewife franchisekind of like took off and they were
like, we have the mob wives, and we have Karen. She has
to be on this show because shehas real mob history. And some of
the other girls did. Some hadactually no history. But I'm like here
to throw shade on me because Ilike people forever. But some of them
we had history, and it justHarvey Weinstein got involved, he jumped on
(12:07):
board with the show and it justtook off. There was a bidding war
and then you know, I guesshistory made it. Yeah, And that's
why I asked if you held backever, because you know, in your
position, it was real, right, And that's where it's different when it's
all authentic. You know, didyou actually pour your heart into it or
do you feel like at times youheld back? Oh no, I went
holistic because I'll tell you what happenedwhen the show came. It was like
(12:31):
I felt like for me, Iwas the one that really went through struggles,
like there was a hit put onmy brother's life, my family moved
away, we moved to Arizona.You know, we got arrested. I
lost everything, like my stuff wason steroids compared to ever not taking away
because Renee went through stuff like everyone, but it was like this was due
to that lifestyle. So I livedthe glamour, but I also lived the
(12:52):
heartache. So when the show waspitched, it was like about women who
went through struggles, and then nextthing you know, it's about my ex
boyfriend and we're like, this isn'twhat it is. I don't care about
that, and we're like fighting everyday. And I didn't understand reality TV,
so I was going crazy. Imean, if Jennifer was here right
now, she would tell you likeit never ended. We were on camera,
(13:13):
off camera, like our shit wastwenty four hours. It just never
ended. Like we were like,tell her to meet me now. There's
so much like even the producers ofMob Wives like we laugh now because there's
so much stuff that happened off camerathat was better than what happened on camera.
Yeah. Wow. So as faras I kind of felt bamboozled in
(13:33):
the beginning because I didn't come backto First of all, I didn't come
nobody had to like me. Iwas already in the room where you guys
were ready pitched the show exactly soit kind of like took that turn,
and like, yeah, there werethings, but I can honestly say we
were never scripted or we guided intosituations. Yes, but we literally like
(13:58):
fought from our heart because we hadso much passion about things that we went
through. Did it take a differentturn and we're arguing about things that really
didn't matter? Yes? So wasI angry at the time when it was
happening, Yes, because I'm like, this is such a nothing in my
life. But now I could sitback and say, I get it.
(14:18):
You're an iconic show, you know, It's just it is. Whether I
love it or like people on theshow, the cast, especially US four
coming and sees the magic was magic. It was iconic, it happened.
Would I do it again? Absolutely? All right, Well that's because that's
(14:39):
what I'm coming with a hit team, Michelle. Have you seen me stunning
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(15:01):
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(15:22):
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daughter in the house. Let's talkabout your book New York Times bestseller.
I'm so excited to talk about it. What inspired you to write it?
Obviously all of your experience, Buttell me some of the things that are
(15:43):
in it if people want to gobuy it, you know, we want
to entice them here, what's init? So that's my story, you
know, that's really what I wentthrough. I went from being the most
celebrated mob daughter to I can't evencome in people's houses. My whole community
turned on me, and I like, for me, at nineteen years old,
I didn't understand that life. Ididn't do anything that was my father's
(16:06):
world, his life, So peoplethat I considered family, uncles, protectors
turned on me and at nineteen yearsold. And this is you know why
I say mob Wise was I agreedto join the cast because at nineteen years
old, I had to know ifI was going to walk into something where
I might get killed and not walkout of. And I don't think no
nineteen year old girls should never haveto go through that, but I did,
(16:30):
and it made me stronger. Andthe book was just my way of
telling a story because even on mobWise, we never like until then,
none of us ever talked about itlike it was what mob, Like Renee
when she says that it's an iconicline because they said, how do you
feel about the mob? And shesaid, what mob? Because none of
us ever spoke about it exactly.So that was for me to be able
(16:52):
to tell my story and what Iwent through yep, and going through the
book writing process. Was it hardfor you? Was it almost like therapy
kind of you know, kind oflike therapy. Everyone asked me if I
went to therapy, and I don'tknow. Maybe I should have, but
for me, I think that thatbad bitch, you don't need to go
nowhere. You're good enough. Iwill say this though. When I was
(17:19):
younger and my father cooperated, Ialways felt like I had to be bad
because everybody judged me for what hedid. So I thought, in my
mind people accepted him and loved himand respected him when he was bad,
so maybe if I'm bad, theywon't judge me. So I went out
and you know, rebeiled, rebuildthe things that I shouldn't have ever did,
(17:40):
and it cost me. Eventually,my family got in trouble in Arizona.
We got arrested for settling ecstasy,and that's not really what we were.
The whole thing was blown out ofproportion. It's this is a whole
I'm doing. Actually did a documentarythat will be coming out about that because
there's so much behind the scenes thatled up to that. But I think
some of my actions, because Icared about what people thought, created that
(18:03):
situation to happen. So when Iwas able to sit down and tell my
book, my story. It waslike, I understand my mistakes and I
can't blame anything that happens in mylife on someone else, or be angry
or be mad. It's who Iam. Yep. So I think that
was like my coming. That waslike my birthing, my rebirthing experience where
I was able to really just sitdown because prior to that I held so
(18:26):
much anger. Like I was somad at my father for cooperating and I
didn't understand it. But while hewas doing what he was doing, I
was still living in the heat ofit and having to go through my stuff.
So for me, it was liketrying to put the blame on him
or be mad, and be angrymade me act at a character. Hence
(18:48):
my whole family got arrested. Welost pretty much everything, and it had
to start over. So I wasable to finally just tell my story and
I understand, I don't blame anyonefor my mistakes. I accept them who
I am, and I have tomake that make me be a better teacher
to my daughter, which I did, and you know it turned out great
because she's an amazing young lady.Yeah, and she's doing well right in
(19:11):
the finance world. Yes, sheis in the finance which I first of
all, my daughter used to beso shy, she barely like. I
used to think, oh my god, she's gonna have social issues because she
was like timid, right, Andhere she is. She comes to New
York and she's in the heart offinance and she's Wow, beast, like
what we got to give it upbecause there is amazing from what you went
(19:33):
through and growing up like this andthen writing your book, having all the
anger, going through all the mistakes, being on a reality show that in
itself is freaking crazy and raining.I can always being miked and everyone wanting
a piece, and then going throughthese highs and loads of people that love
you or didn't love you. Allof this that's just just one of those
things would tear somebody, right,And you've been through it all and you
(19:56):
raised such an incredible young woman.So Congratsat's she's doing amazing. Actually,
she was just on like what wasit like Forbes? Yep, you know
top In that's amazing. She's she'sshe has a whole team that works under
her. I can talk about herall day long, but she's we're here
for She's Yeah, She's definitely aboss and I'm very proud of her.
(20:18):
Where can people follow her so wecan see more of her accoletes? She's
Karina c. Brooks, I thinkon social media. Yeah, we'll check
it out, make sure we taggerin it and uh good good shout out
to Karina. So keep doing yourthing girl. If anyone needs any money
to borrow small business, I'll pineadvance. That's right, reach out to
Karina. Awesome money. That's it. I love it. And now you
(20:44):
know we talked about the book,we talked about your daughter, and you
also have a store. Right,Yes, I have a spa wellness center
called body Depot. Need that bodyDepot in my life? We're coming.
What services do you offer for bodycontouring facials? And we are books solid.
I don't know if you guys seenlike that viral headspa Yes, yeah,
(21:07):
do it, no way, it'samazing, definitely do it. It
is like and I'm such like alike a perfectionist when it comes to skin.
I don't know if anyone knew thisabout me, but I was an
esthetician before Mob Wives. I reallylove my SPA to come here and film
with Listen when the show was pitchedto me. It was the height of
(21:29):
reality TV the Kardashians. I'm like, oh, we're gonna be flying on
jets and we're gonna be Yeah,it didn't happen, but anyway, so
I gave up the SPA and Ialways studied and I always like advanced my
career with like you know, scancetraining and stuff. So anyway, this
the when we got the SPA,it just all of a sudden overnight,
(21:49):
like we became a success, andlike she was actually an influencer that posted
us. And we have one ofthose things where you can go to bed
and people book and we woke upand we didn't even know how to work
it yet. And I have liketwenty appointments, so I'm in there like
learning how to do the treatment whileit's while we were in business, and
I'm like, okay, that thatdidn't work. That work. We're booking
for you for seventy five appointments inthe next hour training how period would happen?
(22:14):
And it's it's amazing. It workedout. My partner's amazing, and
we're just having fun with that.That is so bust Or even has lit
new Jersey body depot. Yeah.Check it out. How's it all?
Wow? We gotta go. Iwant to know a little bit more about
your background. You know you saidsomething earlier about your dad when he became
an informant, you were so upsetwith him. Can you tell me why
(22:34):
and what you went through at thatpoint? Well? I think you know,
first of all, growing up,you never snatched, you never rat,
right, That's what we were taught. Me and my brother would telling
each other and we would get introuble. So in my mind I didn't
understand how he could tell right,like, what are you doing? I?
The government to us was always theenemy, right, And I had
(22:56):
to really understand the betrayal and whyam I did what he did? And
it took years and a lot ofsit downs and a lot of crying and
a lot of talking. But again, that was his world. And you
know he was loyal to Kozinosta.Yep, he was very loyal to John
Gottie. I mean he gave thatwas his first family, the mob.
(23:18):
And when he got arrested and heheard the Gotti tapes and he heard the
betrayal and John was setting him upto take the fall, and his lawyers
were contacting him. My father said, he just had the weakest moment of
his life and he just broke andhe was just done. He wanted to
walk away from it. Like forhim, I can't speak on what he
must have felt at that time,but you know, to be able to
(23:41):
basically go out there and be asoldier to Coozonostra and kill for that,
and he's lost some of his bestfriends, and then to feel betrayed,
you know, he said his firstinstinct and I say this all the time,
and people really don't understand the coreof this comment. His first instinct
was he should have killed John,because that's what they do in that world.
Portray him absolutely. But he justdecided he was done and he walked
(24:03):
away. And when he walked away, that shattered my world, right because
that's what I grew up not reallyunderstanding, but embedded in. And when
he decided to walk away, everybodyturned on us. And you know,
I, at nineteen years old,I'm like, wait, what I have
to learn the mob? I hadto understand betrayal. I had to understand
things that like nineteen year old girlsshouldn't even fathom in their imagination. So
(24:30):
it was it was I was angry, how did you sleep at night worrying
about being killed or being you know, in a position truly nineteen years old,
like you don't know whose house togo into? These are your best
friends, your aunt and uncles.Yeah right, How did you do it?
How'd you get through that time period? What did your mom have?
Parties? A lot of health thepalladium in the lot at that time.
(24:53):
Yeah, uh, definitely that's agood way to do it. You know,
I will say this, and thisis why mob wives did have such
ruts. Jennifer Grasiana, which wasrenaeced especially she's my friend, my cousin
Ramona, Like I had a coreof friends that we just looked past that
even though their fathers were allegedly involvedin that lifestyle. We we were just
(25:17):
had our own thing, you know, and we just and they never made
me feel different. It was like, you know, we're not supposed to
be around you, but who givesa share? Right exactly? And I
still to this day deal with itlike it's like every day. But it's
just you know, back then itmade me act out and I and I
didn't see it then, you know, I was just acting bad or dating
(25:38):
bad boys, and you know,doing things that I, you know,
buddy wants their teenage daughter to do. But it was also a learning experience.
Yep, absolutely, you know.And I tell my daughter, like,
we did a show. I produceda show for MTV Families in the
Mafia, and my daughter is like, I Am not talking about the Mafia.
I don't care. And like,you know, Karina is a boss
in her own right, and shewants to distance herself, but I'm like,
(26:00):
you can't never distance yourself from yourlegacy and where you come from,
right if that made you to meetstronger, you know. And Kreena is
like, she doesn't. She getsit now, but like coming back to
it's like she grew up in Arizonawhere people are like, wait, what's
the mob? Yeah? You know. I remember one day I was doing
a fecial out there and this girl'slike, you're Italian from New York.
(26:22):
Do you know the Mafia? AndI'm like, do you have any idea?
Who the hell I am? You'retalking that is a real thing.
I might have an idea, AndI'm like, I think I heard of
it, and she's like, youknow that John Gottie and Sammy the Bullyard
and like just because I'm Italian andI live in New York, doesn't me
And I mean, really I'm hisdaughter. But spawn on, that is
(26:42):
so funny. That's crazy. Anybodythat you grew up with that didn't make
it on the show that was pissed. That was like, you guys did
this? You know, because youhad so many I'm sure friends, girlfriends
in the neighborhood. And what wasthat like once you got the show?
Was there a lot of attention?And did it change? So for me?
(27:02):
People that you didn't see and Iprobably won't even really mention their names,
right because they have true heritage inthat world, father's, grandfathers,
uncles. They were just like whyare you doing this? Yeah, like
with these girls, like what areyou doing? And again some of the
girls were connected, but there wassomething that really weren't. And you know,
I would hear it like, butit has I have to say,
(27:27):
mob wives. We didn't choose thatname right, So it was like it
just started happening and then it waslike Karen's on the show, let's put
mob wives. It was just thepitch right, it was the stop right.
And it also after a couple ofepisodes, it started being about us
and art, and so the wholemob element was kind of taken out of
(27:47):
it, and it's like we're nottelling people's secrets or like I'm saying public
knowledge things. And you know,for me, my family because of the
history is really my father wrote aNew York Times best selling book. I
have a New York Times best sellingbook, so it's an open book.
And other people were talking about thingsthat were already out there. But yeah,
(28:07):
there were people that you know,even like I have a cousin that
still like they couldn't get over it, like why are you talking about this
that's very secret to us? AndI think for us and I always say
this in everything. Yes, therewas a lot of glitz and glamour to
that lifestyle, but there's a lotof heartache and pain and people did lose
family members. There are people thatare doing life in prison and that's not
(28:30):
fun all the way around. Sothere was a lot of you know,
pushback, yep on my part,a lot. I could imagine. That's
why I yes, because I couldimagine how many people were involved, how
many girls who grew up with Yeah, and they were probably why didn't I
get that shot? Or why arethese women out here, especially at that
age too, like you know,everyone just jealous exactly. So I will
say this. And so Nina Castellanoand I used to be friends in high
(28:56):
school. We went to school together. And it was right in the Castellano
hit, right my father was involvedand her grandfather was killed. And I
always give props because I think whenit comes to that type of family,
they're very classy. With the Castellanos, that was the men's world. And
Nina was asked to come on theshow and she did a you know,
(29:18):
an interview where she sat down andthe producers were harping on me, and
she said, I don't hate Karen. I'll never hate Karen. Like we
have so much history in school,we grew up together. She goes and
whatever that life is, that's ourfathers and my grandfather, and you know,
she goes, so if you haveany other questions, and so this
I never got to say thank youto her because she just didn't. I
(29:42):
take my hat off because they're inour world and people say, well,
how can you say the mob isclassy? But in our world they're about
as classy and mob as you get. Right, that was real gangster of
her and people thought they were goingto use the murder and it was way
deeper. It's like some of thethings, things that we talked about on
TV is for TV, right,and then there's some things that will still
(30:04):
always be for that life. Andshe left it there. Yep, that's
amazing. It is amenable and Inever said that probably, But Nina,
if you ever see this, Ijust I always respect her. I'll have
to tag her in this and thankyou for sharing it with us. Of
course, I could talk to youfor the rest of my life. I
want to know every single thing andevery instance. But I want to I
(30:25):
want you to be you know you, and if you want to be vulnerable,
feel like it. If not,it's all good. But I want
to know, like, what wasone moment that really defined you? You
know that you said, oh mygod, I can't believe I'm going through
this. This was tough and itdefined you to being who you are today.
And my god, you have doneso much, your daughter's done so
much, You've done so great.But what was that moment, that pain
(30:47):
moment that really made you. Ihad to stand up in a courtroom with
my mother, my brother, andmy father and be charged as being a
drug cartel or they didn't use theword cartel, but an organization that sold
ecstasy to millions of kids, andrealistically, I did my brother was involved,
but they wanted my father, sowe were all going to go in
(31:11):
separately, and I was going toMy father was going to go to trial,
right. He wasn't going to takea plea because they didn't really have
anything on him. Excuse me,but they said it's a family plea or
no plea, and they had somuch on my brother that he probably would
have got forty five years. Somy father was forced into taking a plea,
and when I had to get upin court, I had to acknowledge
(31:33):
that my father was the leader ofthis ecstasy group and that my father basically
put us in a position to dothis. And for me, that was
probably one of the most devastating thingsthat I ever had to do because it
was so far from the truth.And it's actually funny because when I got
up there, you have to giveyour age and your name, and it
was like a blank, like Icouldn't even think because I knew what I
(31:56):
was doing, and they're like,how old are you? And I look
back and my father's just the typicaljokester, and he's like, don't lie,
you're on the oath now and whatever. And I had just had my
daughter. I had just had mydaughter, and I was just like,
you know what, Karen, it'sdone. Like here we are. My
father got sentenced to nineteen years inprison, my brother got sentenced to nine
(32:22):
years in prison, my daughter's fathernine years in prison. And I said,
you have to put on your biggirl pants and raise your daughter,
my nephew, and be able tonot hold any more anger anymore and just
accept what happened and not break rightbecause I feel like sometimes I didn't think
I was breaking when I was younger, but acting out and doing all that
(32:43):
stuff. It's time to be amother. And I think that that was
like my defining moment in life,because no one should have to stand up
in a court, a federal courtwith your father, brother, what was
the state court at the time,my brother and father had a federal charge,
but in a court of law withyour mother, father, and brother
and basically put all the blame onyour father. And my father's lawyers wanted
(33:05):
that to happen, so you know, we would get sentenced, you know,
they would give my brother less time. Was that moment freeing or was
it completely challenging and sickening? Didyou have a million emotions or what?
I had a million emotions. Itwas very sickening because I really at that
particular moment was like, wait aminute. So I got to really see
(33:30):
an in depth look at the justicesystem and how it can be corrupt.
Hence why I'm actually an advocate forprison reform and I'm actually helping someone overturn
their life sentence. And it's sopassionate to me because I think at that
moment to stand up and it didn'tmatter. The truth right. The truth
was Sammy L. Bull, whowas one of America's most notorious gangster's gotten
(33:53):
six years for his whole Gotti stuff, and he landed in Arizona with his
family and he or his family wereselling drugs. But we're embarrassed now,
so basically he's going to take thefall so the government can save face.
And I was just like, it'snot fair, and you could talk and
I'll tell you something. ABC Newscame out to interview us, and some
(34:15):
of the producers did a twenty twentyinterview with my father, A couple of
months before that, and I wasready to tell the story like they got
it all wrong. And the producerwent like this to me, and I
looked at her and she said,it doesn't matter. She said, so
you can either. You know we'regoing to question you about certain things.
Are you going to allow us toquestion you and answer them? And she
(34:37):
looked at me like shaking her head. No, like, don't do it,
because it doesn't matter. It's goingto be a one sided story at
this time. They want to hearthat Sammuel the bull landed in Arizona was
selling drugs with his family, andthat's what they're going to put out.
And that's what they did for yearsuntil I was able to actually hence my
book or mob Wives or things likethis and speak on it. That is
(34:58):
powerful, Yeah, it really is. I just feel so bad that you
to go through this at such ayoung age. I don't know. I
think I think for me, allthat has made my daughter like and my
nephew and like, they're such goodkids, invincible, And now look at
them, and you could have takenthis and continue to live that lifestyle.
You could have done things that youwouldn't be proud of and your daughter could
(35:21):
be doing it too, but youdidn't. You made a turn for yourself.
You did, you did what youcould and I'm so so happy for
you and your family. So thankyou so much for joining us today.
I love you. It's been anhonor and a pleasure to meet you.
You know icons in America and amongstthe Italian culture, and I know that
it's crazy to say, but youknow, these are the moments that to
(35:42):
find our culture right as Italians.And I'm happy you're able to find the
pride and to continue on and todo amazing things. Thank you, Thank
you for sharing your story. Welove you and we're here to cheering you
on. Girls beautiful looking needs tobe a model. Johnny, Yes,
(36:08):
that's what I said about it.He talked about it. I said,
squeeze me in anytime. Thank youso much, And I just want people
to know where they can find youfind your story. You can well.
I Instagram is like my thing.So it's Karen Gravana on Instagram and I
have all the body the body depotis the spa, but I have all
(36:29):
the links and everything from my personalInstagram. Make sure you check it out
because her Instagram is awesome. Istarted following a couple of weeks ago.
You're the best, and I actuallydo the treatments. I have people coming
and be like, you're really gonnado it. I'm like, yes,
I'm such a you and I haveto do it. So I actually do
the treatments. I love it.I love it. I'm excited now,
(36:49):
I mean, come on, yes, yes, Thank you so much,
and one more time, your handlesKaren Gravano on Instagram and the body Depot
all right, thank you so much. You can find me at michell broone
online and it can find me atAsh McPherson two HS on all socials.
Thank you so much for joining us. Next time,
Welcome to rad RADD. It's MichelleBaron and I'm so excited to be here
with my co hosts Ashley mcfiercey ashyou ready for this one, ze.
This is one of my favorite topics. Get into it and find out all
the tay being Italian, you know, we know all about this, We've
seen it on TV. Not tooclose to our family, but definitely can't
wait to hear about your family,my friend. I am here with Karen
(00:20):
Gravana. Let's give it up forKaren. Karen, you are here,
you know, daughter of Sammy deBull. I can't imagine what it was
like growing up like that. Buttalking off air, we did talk a
(00:41):
little bit about being a traditional Italianfamily growing up yonder it was very traditional.
Yeah, Italian had to have dinnerevery night at five point thirty Sunday
saw us dinner. You know,it was very normal. Yeah, ever
happened outside the house didn't come inside. It's a leader, absolutely. So
I want to talk about your entirestory from the beginning. So when you
(01:04):
were little, traditional Italian family,when did you know that your family was
different, that the mob was apart of your family? Was your family?
So growing up I didn't really feeldifferent because everyone around me, their
families were involved in that, likemy cousins and you know, so we
were like a community. When Iwas about ten years old, one time
(01:26):
I had gone to school and Iwas invited over a friend's house to play
and we were outside and she goes, see that big house over there.
It was on Toad Hills, StatenIsland, you know, the real ritzy
area. And I was to thathouse that she was pointing to because it
was Paul Castellano's house, and I'mlike yeah, I was like all happy
like what she was going to talkabout, and she goes My family says,
I can't go over to the house. There's a gangster that lives in
(01:49):
there. And I'm like I didn'tknow what a gangster was. In my
mind, I'm like, oh,well, maybe my father's a gangster too.
And one day we could live ina big house in the hill.
So that was the first time Iever heard the word. And I remember
going home and asking my father andmother, I'm like, are you a
gangster? And he's like talking aboutwhere did you get this? And I
had told him this story and IMAwas like, no, he's in construction.
(02:12):
You know that's the typical yeah likething, yeah, family, but
he really was in construction and allfairness, he had multiple construction of businesses,
like to be honest and not inthe height of the eighties and nineties,
like my father was the go toman in construction for the mob.
He controlled the unions, he controlledyou know, multiple companies, and he's
(02:34):
a very powerful man. Yeah,and someone that you know a lot of
people in that industry looked up tofor sure. So you know, before
he became an informant, I wantto talk about what life was like at
home prior to after, because Iknow things changed a lot for you guys.
So let's talk about before you know, we're really the buzzes on the
street, like, hey, thisis what's going on. I know you
heard word gangster once, but whathappened after that? Like growing up and
(02:59):
how did you realized that your fatherwas Sammy the Bull. You know Staten
Island and I said this when westarted mob wives, I said, it's
the breeding ground for the mafia.It's like everyone moved to Brooklyn. So
growing up in Staten Island, likeyou know, people looked up to that
life. They looked up to myfather, and I did start to hear
like your father's and the mob andall this other stuff. Probably when I
(03:22):
was about sixteen and Pole Castellano waskilled, I knew. I was like,
yeah, he's a gangister. Whata gangster exactly was what he did
outside of the house. I stilldidn't have a full understanding, but that's
when I really started to understand thathis lifestyle was dangerous, that involved murder,
racketeering, whatever that was at thetime. But I at that point
(03:46):
is when I knew. And whatdid you feel like? You know,
you're a teenage girl, you havepeer pressure, you got a lot going
on yourself, and then you havethis dad with this moment where it hit
you. You know, like wow, did you feel like you know?
I really didn't feel too much,because, like I said, there was
still people that were like me.Yep, I grew up and surrounded by
(04:10):
people with fathers in that lifestyle.So maybe it's just so I also grew
up in a community where people lookedup to these men. So whatever.
Now I'm not just talking you know, the construction industry and things that he
controlled or people that feared him.We would go to restaurants and there would
be old women and people that lookedup to them. And you know,
to my knowledge and how is explainedto me later in life, was the
(04:33):
mob was, you know, protectorsof their communities. So growing up in
an Italian neighborhood, you know,whether it was the old lady down the
block or you know, they myfather helped people with construction and he took
care of his community. So therewas a lot of respect and a lot
of love that I seen him getand fear, but mostly from where I
(04:56):
stood, it was mostly like loveand respect. So I thought, if
he's a person, he can't reallybe that bad because he gets a lot
of love. So it was away that I was able to rationalize it,
yep in my brain. Well,you know, it's interesting because in
the Italian culture they are the protectorsand it and at that time period it
was it was very respected. Youknow, it came with a lot of
(05:17):
power too, and a lot ofmoney and a lot of knowledge, and
it was kind of like, youknow, you don't touch the families of
the higher ups, and that wasthat and being in that family, I
can just imagine, you know,the allure that you have going out in
the community It's like it's them,right, right. People knew. Yeah,
And it's funny that you say thatbecause I kind of, like like
(05:41):
Renee on Mob Wives, she fedinto that she loved being a gangster's daughter.
She walked in a club and said, do you know who my father
is? And feed into that wholething where I was more of the kid
that was sneaking out and doing thingsthat I wasn't supposed to be doing.
So I kind of stayed away fromit. I didn't want anyone to know.
People were like you, Sammy's don'tno. So yeah, it was
(06:04):
just you know, like I said, I had a very normal childhood,
abnormal with certain things that I seen, but I was able to rationalize it.
I mean, I did grow upand I said this in a couple
of episodes surrounded by like murder,and I know that's crazy to say,
but it's something that was I seenon the regular, and I was able
(06:27):
to rationalize it and understand it tomy ability to be able to say,
Okay, you know, maybe myfather's involved in some of this stuff,
but maybe not because he just actedso normal. Right. It was like
it was collective no matter what,So there was always that question and always
teetered in my brain like back andforth. But I never looked at him
as like a bad person or Ilooked at him as my provider, my
(06:49):
protector. And my father has likea very cool demeanor, like he didn't
walk into place and everyone feared him. He was like, hey, buddy,
hey he's mad down, he chrismatic. He was a jokester still to
this day, which is actually kindof embarrassing. I see I see him
on social media and I'm like,what is this man gonna say? But
you never know it's gonna come outof his mouth, and that's just who
(07:11):
he always think. He had anability to make people feel calm and comfortable
around him, but if you crossedhim, he also could kill you in
like zero point one second without andso being around that, you know,
like you said, you were ina neighborhood all Italian, it was it
was normal. Everyone was going throughit, you know, going to a
different heritage, a neighborhood with differentheritage. It may not have been that
(07:33):
case, but for you it seemedpretty normal. Growing up past that and
trying to date, what was thatlike for you? Oh, I can
only imagine that was like terrifying foreveryboy. I'm like, you know,
you bring somebody home, they mightend up in the construction company. I
did have a boyfriend that had towork for the construction job, and his
(07:55):
mother was like horrified. Like everytime he's like, don't have a fight
with her, don't do that.You know, he was in our house,
like, he had dinner with us, He went on vacations with us.
So one thing about my father is, you know, obviously he's a
father, so if someone does somethingto his daughter, he's going to do
something. But he didn't put hisgangster into that. You know, as
(08:16):
a father, wholeheartedly he's going toprotect his family. But you know he
was also he didn't play the gangsterrole with my boyfriends. That yeah,
that's good. Well, because themob life is an organization, right,
it's completely strategic. It's not likethey're just often people left and right.
Right. It's if someone crosses ordoesn't pay their debt, or doesn't treat
someone right, or who loses therespect right, it's all those things and
(08:39):
it's not one time or two.This is like, it's a very strategic
approach. It's a business. Well, you joined something that you know the
consequences of correct And I always saythis, everybody that got involved in that
lifestyle went in willingly. They wantedto be part of that. And you
know, the way the Mob,I guess was explained to my father,
The way he view it was itwas a brotherhood, you know, and
(09:01):
we protect our own and you know, coming here, especially coming from Italy,
when a lot of Italians came over, they were immigrants, they had
it hard. So the Mob actuallykind of formed to be able to break
into the construction industry, the garmentindustry, and it was really to help,
you know, like an organization,like you said, it was to
be able to take care of it. That's why it was a family,
(09:22):
it was. It was structured afterthat, you know. And speaking of
that, it's so interesting because theywould help find jobs for immigrants, they
would house them if they needed it. You bring your cousin over and they're
working on the farm, but thenext one's working in the construction company.
Right. So it was really thegood intent, but all you heard about
was the bad stuff, right.And there was a lot of empathy behind
closed doors, right, Like allthe wives were friends, and so what
(09:45):
was it like being on mob?Wives and what role do you think did
you portray the role you wanted toportray on television or did you hold back
a little. It was So it'skind of funny because how Mob Wives came
to be was Jennifer and I,which Jennifer was an executive producer for Mob
Wives. We were actually talking aboutdoing like a scripted show or maybe a
(10:09):
movie, and like we were puttingsome things together and she came to me
one day and she said, listen, I'm pitching this idea about women whose
husbands went to prison. Someone hadcontacted her they were doing the show,
and she said, they came tome to cast. What do you think
about Drita And I said, oh, she's a character on TV. And
she's like, what about Renee?I said no, definitely. So anyway,
to make a long story short,I actually came in and they filmed
(10:33):
the sizzle reel. We were alltogether. We filmed the sizzle reel.
And you know, people don't knowthat. They think, like the first
time I ever came back was thatscene that you've seen, But we filmed
the sissle reel. But I likethat you filmed the sizzlereel together and to
see where it started where it went. He is iconic. I mean that's
incredible because it was an iconic sizzlerel. And I think the thing about us
is like it was the height ofreality TV, and we weren't just a
(10:54):
cast that was ensembled and put togetherand made to interact with each other like
we had history, like deep rootedhistory. So when we did that sizzle
reel, I was in it,of course, and Jennifer's like, oh,
just come in it because the guythat was actually behind it was like,
we have to get Karen and Iwas like, absolutely not. I'm
not doing reality TV. I haveway too much baggage like everyone and I'm
(11:18):
not saying this in a downplaying them, but no one knew who they were,
so like, I'm coming with thewhole Sammy the Bull, John Gottie
baggage, and I'm gonna get it'snot happening. Well fast forward. All
of a sudden, the sizzlereel comesout. It's great, like we're going
on pitches and everyone's like okay.So it went from and it wasn't supposed
to be called mob wives at all. It was supposed to be about women
overcoming stuff and people still husbands orfamily members went to prison. And then
(11:43):
you know, that whole housewife franchisekind of like took off and they were
like, we have the mob wives, and we have Karen. She has
to be on this show because shehas real mob history. And some of
the other girls did. Some hadactually no history. But I'm like here
to throw shade on me because Ilike people forever. But some of them
we had history, and it justHarvey Weinstein got involved, he jumped on
(12:07):
board with the show and it justtook off. There was a bidding war
and then you know, I guesshistory made it. Yeah, And that's
why I asked if you held backever, because you know, in your
position, it was real, right, And that's where it's different when it's
all authentic. You know, didyou actually pour your heart into it or
do you feel like at times youheld back? Oh no, I went
holistic because I'll tell you what happenedwhen the show came. It was like
(12:31):
I felt like for me, Iwas the one that really went through struggles,
like there was a hit put onmy brother's life, my family moved
away, we moved to Arizona.You know, we got arrested. I
lost everything, like my stuff wason steroids compared to ever not taking away
because Renee went through stuff like everyone, but it was like this was due
to that lifestyle. So I livedthe glamour, but I also lived the
(12:52):
heartache. So when the show waspitched, it was like about women who
went through struggles, and then nextthing you know, it's about my ex
boyfriend and we're like, this isn'twhat it is. I don't care about
that, and we're like fighting everyday. And I didn't understand reality TV,
so I was going crazy. Imean, if Jennifer was here right
now, she would tell you likeit never ended. We were on camera,
(13:13):
off camera, like our shit wastwenty four hours. It just never
ended. Like we were like,tell her to meet me now. There's
so much like even the producers ofMob Wives like we laugh now because there's
so much stuff that happened off camerathat was better than what happened on camera.
Yeah. Wow. So as faras I kind of felt bamboozled in
(13:33):
the beginning because I didn't come backto First of all, I didn't come
nobody had to like me. Iwas already in the room where you guys
were ready pitched the show exactly soit kind of like took that turn,
and like, yeah, there werethings, but I can honestly say we
were never scripted or we guided intosituations. Yes, but we literally like
(13:58):
fought from our heart because we hadso much passion about things that we went
through. Did it take a differentturn and we're arguing about things that really
didn't matter? Yes? So wasI angry at the time when it was
happening, Yes, because I'm like, this is such a nothing in my
life. But now I could sitback and say, I get it.
(14:18):
You're an iconic show, you know, It's just it is. Whether I
love it or like people on theshow, the cast, especially US four
coming and sees the magic was magic. It was iconic, it happened.
Would I do it again? Absolutely? All right, Well that's because that's
(14:39):
what I'm coming with a hit team, Michelle. Have you seen me stunning
pieces from rock and roll designs?Absolutely? I am obsessed. Like this
white jade is my absolute favorite,goes with every outfit totally. I love
that piece. I'm actually wearing itas well. I feel like every time
I wear it, my vibes arejust so high. Oh my god,
me too. I have to tellyou same here. It's either the chunky
(15:01):
white bracelet or necklace for me.Love them. It's not too over the
top either. I feel like Icould dress it up, dress it down,
you know, I can wear itout. I can wear them to
the gym, even I bring themeverywhere with me. Yeah. And they're
like really strong too, like theydon't break and their chic love it.
Rock and Roll Designs has definitely becomea staple in my accessory collection, and
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piece of jewelry is custom and everycrystal has a special meaning that will help
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and Roll design dot org to findthe perfect piece for you. Real mom
daughter in the house. Let's talkabout your book New York Times bestseller.
I'm so excited to talk about it. What inspired you to write it?
Obviously all of your experience, Buttell me some of the things that are
(15:43):
in it if people want to gobuy it, you know, we want
to entice them here, what's init? So that's my story, you
know, that's really what I wentthrough. I went from being the most
celebrated mob daughter to I can't evencome in people's houses. My whole community
turned on me, and I like, for me, at nineteen years old,
I didn't understand that life. Ididn't do anything that was my father's
(16:06):
world, his life, So peoplethat I considered family, uncles, protectors
turned on me and at nineteen yearsold. And this is you know why
I say mob Wise was I agreedto join the cast because at nineteen years
old, I had to know ifI was going to walk into something where
I might get killed and not walkout of. And I don't think no
nineteen year old girls should never haveto go through that, but I did,
(16:30):
and it made me stronger. Andthe book was just my way of
telling a story because even on mobWise, we never like until then,
none of us ever talked about itlike it was what mob, Like Renee
when she says that it's an iconicline because they said, how do you
feel about the mob? And shesaid, what mob? Because none of
us ever spoke about it exactly.So that was for me to be able
(16:52):
to tell my story and what Iwent through yep, and going through the
book writing process. Was it hardfor you? Was it almost like therapy
kind of you know, kind oflike therapy. Everyone asked me if I
went to therapy, and I don'tknow. Maybe I should have, but
for me, I think that thatbad bitch, you don't need to go
nowhere. You're good enough. Iwill say this though. When I was
(17:19):
younger and my father cooperated, Ialways felt like I had to be bad
because everybody judged me for what hedid. So I thought, in my
mind people accepted him and loved himand respected him when he was bad,
so maybe if I'm bad, theywon't judge me. So I went out
and you know, rebeiled, rebuildthe things that I shouldn't have ever did,
(17:40):
and it cost me. Eventually,my family got in trouble in Arizona.
We got arrested for settling ecstasy,and that's not really what we were.
The whole thing was blown out ofproportion. It's this is a whole
I'm doing. Actually did a documentarythat will be coming out about that because
there's so much behind the scenes thatled up to that. But I think
some of my actions, because Icared about what people thought, created that
(18:03):
situation to happen. So when Iwas able to sit down and tell my
book, my story. It waslike, I understand my mistakes and I
can't blame anything that happens in mylife on someone else, or be angry
or be mad. It's who Iam. Yep. So I think that
was like my coming. That waslike my birthing, my rebirthing experience where
I was able to really just sitdown because prior to that I held so
(18:26):
much anger. Like I was somad at my father for cooperating and I
didn't understand it. But while hewas doing what he was doing, I
was still living in the heat ofit and having to go through my stuff.
So for me, it was liketrying to put the blame on him
or be mad, and be angrymade me act at a character. Hence
(18:48):
my whole family got arrested. Welost pretty much everything, and it had
to start over. So I wasable to finally just tell my story and
I understand, I don't blame anyonefor my mistakes. I accept them who
I am, and I have tomake that make me be a better teacher
to my daughter, which I did, and you know it turned out great
because she's an amazing young lady.Yeah, and she's doing well right in
(19:11):
the finance world. Yes, sheis in the finance which I first of
all, my daughter used to beso shy, she barely like. I
used to think, oh my god, she's gonna have social issues because she
was like timid, right, Andhere she is. She comes to New
York and she's in the heart offinance and she's Wow, beast, like
what we got to give it upbecause there is amazing from what you went
(19:33):
through and growing up like this andthen writing your book, having all the
anger, going through all the mistakes, being on a reality show that in
itself is freaking crazy and raining.I can always being miked and everyone wanting
a piece, and then going throughthese highs and loads of people that love
you or didn't love you. Allof this that's just just one of those
things would tear somebody, right,And you've been through it all and you
(19:56):
raised such an incredible young woman.So Congratsat's she's doing amazing. Actually,
she was just on like what wasit like Forbes? Yep, you know
top In that's amazing. She's she'sshe has a whole team that works under
her. I can talk about herall day long, but she's we're here
for She's Yeah, She's definitely aboss and I'm very proud of her.
(20:18):
Where can people follow her so wecan see more of her accoletes? She's
Karina c. Brooks, I thinkon social media. Yeah, we'll check
it out, make sure we taggerin it and uh good good shout out
to Karina. So keep doing yourthing girl. If anyone needs any money
to borrow small business, I'll pineadvance. That's right, reach out to
Karina. Awesome money. That's it. I love it. And now you
(20:44):
know we talked about the book,we talked about your daughter, and you
also have a store. Right,Yes, I have a spa wellness center
called body Depot. Need that bodyDepot in my life? We're coming.
What services do you offer for bodycontouring facials? And we are books solid.
I don't know if you guys seenlike that viral headspa Yes, yeah,
(21:07):
do it, no way, it'samazing, definitely do it. It
is like and I'm such like alike a perfectionist when it comes to skin.
I don't know if anyone knew thisabout me, but I was an
esthetician before Mob Wives. I reallylove my SPA to come here and film
with Listen when the show was pitchedto me. It was the height of
(21:29):
reality TV the Kardashians. I'm like, oh, we're gonna be flying on
jets and we're gonna be Yeah,it didn't happen, but anyway, so
I gave up the SPA and Ialways studied and I always like advanced my
career with like you know, scancetraining and stuff. So anyway, this
the when we got the SPA,it just all of a sudden overnight,
(21:49):
like we became a success, andlike she was actually an influencer that posted
us. And we have one ofthose things where you can go to bed
and people book and we woke upand we didn't even know how to work
it yet. And I have liketwenty appointments, so I'm in there like
learning how to do the treatment whileit's while we were in business, and
I'm like, okay, that thatdidn't work. That work. We're booking
for you for seventy five appointments inthe next hour training how period would happen?
(22:14):
And it's it's amazing. It workedout. My partner's amazing, and
we're just having fun with that.That is so bust Or even has lit
new Jersey body depot. Yeah.Check it out. How's it all?
Wow? We gotta go. Iwant to know a little bit more about
your background. You know you saidsomething earlier about your dad when he became
an informant, you were so upsetwith him. Can you tell me why
(22:34):
and what you went through at thatpoint? Well? I think you know,
first of all, growing up,you never snatched, you never rat,
right, That's what we were taught. Me and my brother would telling
each other and we would get introuble. So in my mind I didn't
understand how he could tell right,like, what are you doing? I?
The government to us was always theenemy, right, And I had
(22:56):
to really understand the betrayal and whyam I did what he did? And
it took years and a lot ofsit downs and a lot of crying and
a lot of talking. But again, that was his world. And you
know he was loyal to Kozinosta.Yep, he was very loyal to John
Gottie. I mean he gave thatwas his first family, the mob.
(23:18):
And when he got arrested and heheard the Gotti tapes and he heard the
betrayal and John was setting him upto take the fall, and his lawyers
were contacting him. My father said, he just had the weakest moment of
his life and he just broke andhe was just done. He wanted to
walk away from it. Like forhim, I can't speak on what he
must have felt at that time,but you know, to be able to
(23:41):
basically go out there and be asoldier to Coozonostra and kill for that,
and he's lost some of his bestfriends, and then to feel betrayed,
you know, he said his firstinstinct and I say this all the time,
and people really don't understand the coreof this comment. His first instinct
was he should have killed John,because that's what they do in that world.
Portray him absolutely. But he justdecided he was done and he walked
(24:03):
away. And when he walked away, that shattered my world, right because
that's what I grew up not reallyunderstanding, but embedded in. And when
he decided to walk away, everybodyturned on us. And you know,
I, at nineteen years old,I'm like, wait, what I have
to learn the mob? I hadto understand betrayal. I had to understand
things that like nineteen year old girlsshouldn't even fathom in their imagination. So
(24:30):
it was it was I was angry, how did you sleep at night worrying
about being killed or being you know, in a position truly nineteen years old,
like you don't know whose house togo into? These are your best
friends, your aunt and uncles.Yeah right, How did you do it?
How'd you get through that time period? What did your mom have?
Parties? A lot of health thepalladium in the lot at that time.
(24:53):
Yeah, uh, definitely that's agood way to do it. You know,
I will say this, and thisis why mob wives did have such
ruts. Jennifer Grasiana, which wasrenaeced especially she's my friend, my cousin
Ramona, Like I had a coreof friends that we just looked past that
even though their fathers were allegedly involvedin that lifestyle. We we were just
(25:17):
had our own thing, you know, and we just and they never made
me feel different. It was like, you know, we're not supposed to
be around you, but who givesa share? Right exactly? And I
still to this day deal with itlike it's like every day. But it's
just you know, back then itmade me act out and I and I
didn't see it then, you know, I was just acting bad or dating
(25:38):
bad boys, and you know,doing things that I, you know,
buddy wants their teenage daughter to do. But it was also a learning experience.
Yep, absolutely, you know.And I tell my daughter, like,
we did a show. I produceda show for MTV Families in the
Mafia, and my daughter is like, I Am not talking about the Mafia.
I don't care. And like,you know, Karina is a boss
in her own right, and shewants to distance herself, but I'm like,
(26:00):
you can't never distance yourself from yourlegacy and where you come from,
right if that made you to meetstronger, you know. And Kreena is
like, she doesn't. She getsit now, but like coming back to
it's like she grew up in Arizonawhere people are like, wait, what's
the mob? Yeah? You know. I remember one day I was doing
a fecial out there and this girl'slike, you're Italian from New York.
(26:22):
Do you know the Mafia? AndI'm like, do you have any idea?
Who the hell I am? You'retalking that is a real thing.
I might have an idea, AndI'm like, I think I heard of
it, and she's like, youknow that John Gottie and Sammy the Bullyard
and like just because I'm Italian andI live in New York, doesn't me
And I mean, really I'm hisdaughter. But spawn on, that is
(26:42):
so funny. That's crazy. Anybodythat you grew up with that didn't make
it on the show that was pissed. That was like, you guys did
this? You know, because youhad so many I'm sure friends, girlfriends
in the neighborhood. And what wasthat like once you got the show?
Was there a lot of attention?And did it change? So for me?
(27:02):
People that you didn't see and Iprobably won't even really mention their names,
right because they have true heritage inthat world, father's, grandfathers,
uncles. They were just like whyare you doing this? Yeah, like
with these girls, like what areyou doing? And again some of the
girls were connected, but there wassomething that really weren't. And you know,
I would hear it like, butit has I have to say,
(27:27):
mob wives. We didn't choose thatname right, So it was like it
just started happening and then it waslike Karen's on the show, let's put
mob wives. It was just thepitch right, it was the stop right.
And it also after a couple ofepisodes, it started being about us
and art, and so the wholemob element was kind of taken out of
(27:47):
it, and it's like we're nottelling people's secrets or like I'm saying public
knowledge things. And you know,for me, my family because of the
history is really my father wrote aNew York Times best selling book. I
have a New York Times best sellingbook, so it's an open book.
And other people were talking about thingsthat were already out there. But yeah,
(28:07):
there were people that you know,even like I have a cousin that
still like they couldn't get over it, like why are you talking about this
that's very secret to us? AndI think for us and I always say
this in everything. Yes, therewas a lot of glitz and glamour to
that lifestyle, but there's a lotof heartache and pain and people did lose
family members. There are people thatare doing life in prison and that's not
(28:30):
fun all the way around. Sothere was a lot of you know,
pushback, yep on my part,a lot. I could imagine. That's
why I yes, because I couldimagine how many people were involved, how
many girls who grew up with Yeah, and they were probably why didn't I
get that shot? Or why arethese women out here, especially at that
age too, like you know,everyone just jealous exactly. So I will
say this. And so Nina Castellanoand I used to be friends in high
(28:56):
school. We went to school together. And it was right in the Castellano
hit, right my father was involvedand her grandfather was killed. And I
always give props because I think whenit comes to that type of family,
they're very classy. With the Castellanos, that was the men's world. And
Nina was asked to come on theshow and she did a you know,
(29:18):
an interview where she sat down andthe producers were harping on me, and
she said, I don't hate Karen. I'll never hate Karen. Like we
have so much history in school,we grew up together. She goes and
whatever that life is, that's ourfathers and my grandfather, and you know,
she goes, so if you haveany other questions, and so this
I never got to say thank youto her because she just didn't. I
(29:42):
take my hat off because they're inour world and people say, well,
how can you say the mob isclassy? But in our world they're about
as classy and mob as you get. Right, that was real gangster of
her and people thought they were goingto use the murder and it was way
deeper. It's like some of thethings, things that we talked about on
TV is for TV, right,and then there's some things that will still
(30:04):
always be for that life. Andshe left it there. Yep, that's
amazing. It is amenable and Inever said that probably, But Nina,
if you ever see this, Ijust I always respect her. I'll have
to tag her in this and thankyou for sharing it with us. Of
course, I could talk to youfor the rest of my life. I
want to know every single thing andevery instance. But I want to I
(30:25):
want you to be you know you, and if you want to be vulnerable,
feel like it. If not,it's all good. But I want
to know, like, what wasone moment that really defined you? You
know that you said, oh mygod, I can't believe I'm going through
this. This was tough and itdefined you to being who you are today.
And my god, you have doneso much, your daughter's done so
much, You've done so great.But what was that moment, that pain
(30:47):
moment that really made you. Ihad to stand up in a courtroom with
my mother, my brother, andmy father and be charged as being a
drug cartel or they didn't use theword cartel, but an organization that sold
ecstasy to millions of kids, andrealistically, I did my brother was involved,
but they wanted my father, sowe were all going to go in
(31:11):
separately, and I was going toMy father was going to go to trial,
right. He wasn't going to takea plea because they didn't really have
anything on him. Excuse me,but they said it's a family plea or
no plea, and they had somuch on my brother that he probably would
have got forty five years. Somy father was forced into taking a plea,
and when I had to get upin court, I had to acknowledge
(31:33):
that my father was the leader ofthis ecstasy group and that my father basically
put us in a position to dothis. And for me, that was
probably one of the most devastating thingsthat I ever had to do because it
was so far from the truth.And it's actually funny because when I got
up there, you have to giveyour age and your name, and it
was like a blank, like Icouldn't even think because I knew what I
(31:56):
was doing, and they're like,how old are you? And I look
back and my father's just the typicaljokester, and he's like, don't lie,
you're on the oath now and whatever. And I had just had my
daughter. I had just had mydaughter, and I was just like,
you know what, Karen, it'sdone. Like here we are. My
father got sentenced to nineteen years inprison, my brother got sentenced to nine
(32:22):
years in prison, my daughter's fathernine years in prison. And I said,
you have to put on your biggirl pants and raise your daughter,
my nephew, and be able tonot hold any more anger anymore and just
accept what happened and not break rightbecause I feel like sometimes I didn't think
I was breaking when I was younger, but acting out and doing all that
(32:43):
stuff. It's time to be amother. And I think that that was
like my defining moment in life,because no one should have to stand up
in a court, a federal courtwith your father, brother, what was
the state court at the time,my brother and father had a federal charge,
but in a court of law withyour mother, father, and brother
and basically put all the blame onyour father. And my father's lawyers wanted
(33:05):
that to happen, so you know, we would get sentenced, you know,
they would give my brother less time. Was that moment freeing or was
it completely challenging and sickening? Didyou have a million emotions or what?
I had a million emotions. Itwas very sickening because I really at that
particular moment was like, wait aminute. So I got to really see
(33:30):
an in depth look at the justicesystem and how it can be corrupt.
Hence why I'm actually an advocate forprison reform and I'm actually helping someone overturn
their life sentence. And it's sopassionate to me because I think at that
moment to stand up and it didn'tmatter. The truth right. The truth
was Sammy L. Bull, whowas one of America's most notorious gangster's gotten
(33:53):
six years for his whole Gotti stuff, and he landed in Arizona with his
family and he or his family wereselling drugs. But we're embarrassed now,
so basically he's going to take thefall so the government can save face.
And I was just like, it'snot fair, and you could talk and
I'll tell you something. ABC Newscame out to interview us, and some
(34:15):
of the producers did a twenty twentyinterview with my father, A couple of
months before that, and I wasready to tell the story like they got
it all wrong. And the producerwent like this to me, and I
looked at her and she said,it doesn't matter. She said, so
you can either. You know we'regoing to question you about certain things.
Are you going to allow us toquestion you and answer them? And she
(34:37):
looked at me like shaking her head. No, like, don't do it,
because it doesn't matter. It's goingto be a one sided story at
this time. They want to hearthat Sammuel the bull landed in Arizona was
selling drugs with his family, andthat's what they're going to put out.
And that's what they did for yearsuntil I was able to actually hence my
book or mob Wives or things likethis and speak on it. That is
(34:58):
powerful, Yeah, it really is. I just feel so bad that you
to go through this at such ayoung age. I don't know. I
think I think for me, allthat has made my daughter like and my
nephew and like, they're such goodkids, invincible, And now look at
them, and you could have takenthis and continue to live that lifestyle.
You could have done things that youwouldn't be proud of and your daughter could
(35:21):
be doing it too, but youdidn't. You made a turn for yourself.
You did, you did what youcould and I'm so so happy for
you and your family. So thankyou so much for joining us today.
I love you. It's been anhonor and a pleasure to meet you.
You know icons in America and amongstthe Italian culture, and I know that
it's crazy to say, but youknow, these are the moments that to
(35:42):
find our culture right as Italians.And I'm happy you're able to find the
pride and to continue on and todo amazing things. Thank you, Thank
you for sharing your story. Welove you and we're here to cheering you
on. Girls beautiful looking needs tobe a model. Johnny, Yes,
(36:08):
that's what I said about it.He talked about it. I said,
squeeze me in anytime. Thank youso much, And I just want people
to know where they can find youfind your story. You can well.
I Instagram is like my thing.So it's Karen Gravana on Instagram and I
have all the body the body depotis the spa, but I have all
(36:29):
the links and everything from my personalInstagram. Make sure you check it out
because her Instagram is awesome. Istarted following a couple of weeks ago.
You're the best, and I actuallydo the treatments. I have people coming
and be like, you're really gonnado it. I'm like, yes,
I'm such a you and I haveto do it. So I actually do
the treatments. I love it.I love it. I'm excited now,
(36:49):
I mean, come on, yes, yes, Thank you so much,
and one more time, your handlesKaren Gravano on Instagram and the body Depot
all right, thank you so much. You can find me at michell broone
online and it can find me atAsh McPherson two HS on all socials.
Thank you so much for joining us. Next time,
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