Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
He was an old man who fished alone in a
skiff in the Gulf stream, and he'd gone eighty four
days now without taking a fish. In the first forty
days a boy had been with him. But after forty
days without a fish, the boy's parents had told him
that the old man was now definitely and finally salao,
(00:33):
which is the worse form of unlucky, and the boy
had gone at their orders in another boat, which caught
three good fish the first week. It made the boy
sad to see the old man come in each day
with his skiff empty, and he always went down to
help him carry either the wines or the gaff or
the harpoon, and the sail that was furled around the mast.
(00:56):
The sail was patched with flour sacks and furled, and
it looked like the flag of permanent defeats. I know
John Gallagher knows who wrote that, and it wasn't Ai.
He's a reporter for thirty two years with the Free Press,
and the author of the book Russ Belt Reporter, a
memoir which you can still get. Wayne State University published
(01:19):
that book and he wrote it. And he's on our
AT and T line right now. Welcome back to the program.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Well, hey, good morning, Michael, how are you.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Those are the words of chorus of Ernest Hemingway, which
we have a special interest here in Michigan and The
Old Man in the Sea, the award winning novella, and
thank you for being here. And we know that was
written by a guy with a pulse, not artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Right right. Well, you know it's funny you just had
a news item on the cameras now with AI are
going to suggest what's the best angle to take to
shoot a photo. I mean, some of this stuff is
just remarkable that we're saying with a what it could do,
and it's it's wonderful and it's scary at the same time.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
You know, Well, I had somebody write an email to
me recently and I said, oh, that sounds strangely formal
from this person. And then it occurred to me somebody
said that that's AI that wrote the email. So I
asked the person. They said, yeah, I was fooling around
with you know, chat, GPT or whatever. And I recognized
(02:27):
right away that it didn't sound like the person who
was writing to me. You have written a column where
you asked artificial intelligence to write like Ernest Hemingway, he
who wrote the short story up in Michigan as his
very first because he lived in the Walloon Lake area,
man Salona, and Potoski in all those places. So when
(02:47):
you asked Ai to write like Hemingway, what happened?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, I was schooling around with this, and I said,
you know, very simple experiment, write these fifty words on
taking a bus in Detroit in the style of Anyway,
and it immediately spat out. You know, the bus came,
it was late, men got on, women got on. They
were saying. You know, it sort of mimicked the style,
but didn't capture any of that emotion in the you know,
(03:15):
the piece you just read from the Old Man in
the Sea, which is packed with emotion, and this little
thing that Ai spit out didn't capture any of that.
It just kind of mimicked the style. So, you know,
I'm not sure it proves anything, Michael, but it is
sort of an interesting how quickly it does it and
how it sort of recognizes generally what it's supposed to do.
(03:35):
But you know, as you said with your friend with
the email, is it really the person, does it sound
like them, or is it just mimicry. You know, I
don't know. I guess we're still sort of learning all
about this.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Did you put yourself in there and say, AI write
a column like John Gallagher did for thirty two years.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, I did it, but my editor because in this
column and the Free Press after anyway, they said, well,
give me William Faulkner, Jane Austin, give me a haikup.
And it kind of in each case to kind of
spat out something that mimics this guy without really sounding
like them. So I entitor just said, you know, write
(04:18):
me one in the style of John Gallagher, and you know,
it kind of vaguely sounded like what I wrote for
the Free Press about covering Detroit for thirty years. But
you know what AI does, of course, it scrapes the
internet for whatever has been done before. You know, Stephen
King calls this plagiarism software because it just it doesn't
really create anything. It just kind of takes what's been
(04:41):
done and repackages it. But it doesn't it so quickly.
I mean, it doesn't take ten seconds or five seconds.
It's instantaneous, and that's that's fine. Like I said, I
find it remarkable and also a little scary, and I
think we're just learning. You know, what's this thing could do?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Tony Cuthbert put into Ai. I don't even know how
you do it, but he did it. He asked AI
to write a news article by Michael Patrick Shields about
Mackinaw Island because he knows I'm a travel writer. And
it came out like this, mystique and majesty Michigan's Mackinaw
Island a timeless treasure. Now, that was the headline, okay,
(05:23):
And then it says by Michael Patrick Shields. And then
it says, nestled between Michigan's Upper and Lower Peninsulas, where
the Great Lakes embrace one another, lies a jewel that
has captivated visitors for centuries, Mackinaw Island. And if I
wrote that, If I wrote that, I would barf. I
(05:45):
can't stand cliches, you know what I mean. It's clearly
that's a postcard kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Right exactly. That's sort of why you know, it's funny
when kids are told to write a theme on something. Michael,
when you and I were kids, we used to go
to the encyclopedia maybe and just kind of get some
ideas from that now they just put it in AI
and as you said, a lot of it's cliches, a
lot of it's the most obvious stuff. But it's so
(06:15):
easy and so you know, remarkable that it can happen
so quickly. I mean you could do an entire thousand
word essay in ten seconds. I mean, it's just sort
of weird. I don't know what. I don't quite know
what to think about it. And I was just as
I said, we were just fooling around with this column
to see see what it can do. But I think
there's a lot of answers yet.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Out there, and it's most sinister. AI could replicate the
voice of someone you care about and call you and
fool you and coach you out of your money, for instance.
That's that's what comes to mind as the most sinister
of AI.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I agree. And all these fake videos that are
online now, I mean, you can you can say, do me,
do me a video of George Washington wrestling with Abraham
Lincoln or something, and it'll it'll do it and it'll look,
you know, relatively realistic. But but you know, if you say,
show me a video of you know, Mayor Duggan taking
(07:15):
a bribe, it'll do that and it'll look realistic. And yeah,
some people have no way of knowing what's really what's not.
That's what's scary about this, that, you know, the ability
to fool people. I think, and hopefully you know, we
come up with some kind of controls on this so
(07:35):
that you know we're not just a wash and all
this you know, bs and misinformation.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I guess it's weirdly tempting. Like if I were under
deadline and I had to get something out quick, but
my soul would not allow me to do that. I mean,
maybe I could have the No, I don't want to
touch it. I do not John Gallagher want to even
touch it, because I could have it write the column
and then I could gussie it up, you know what
I mean, and sprinkle through it that kind of thing.
(08:05):
But I will not give into the devil. I won't
do it. It seems too sinister. And that's why I've
enjoyed your column very much. And do you like to
read Hemingway?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Oh? I love Hemingway. I've always read Anyway. And the
Old Man in the Sea, you know, the past that
you read is just just reminds me of how wonderful
it is, and how much he could pack into his stories.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So you mentioned Detroit real quickly, how about Elmoar Leonard.
I don't think AI could replicate that kind of dialogue.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
No, And that's what you know, That's what Elmoar Leonard
Dutch Leonard as we knew him, you know, that's what
he could do so well. I mean he wrote dialogue
like nobody else could. I can't imagine anybody but him
being able to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So your book is called russ Belt Reporter, a memoir,
and it's written by John Gallagher thirty two years. Thank
you so much, and you can read his column in
the Free Press where it originally appeared
He was an old man who fished alone in a
skiff in the Gulf stream, and he'd gone eighty four
days now without taking a fish. In the first forty
days a boy had been with him. But after forty
days without a fish, the boy's parents had told him
that the old man was now definitely and finally salao,
(00:33):
which is the worse form of unlucky, and the boy
had gone at their orders in another boat, which caught
three good fish the first week. It made the boy
sad to see the old man come in each day
with his skiff empty, and he always went down to
help him carry either the wines or the gaff or
the harpoon, and the sail that was furled around the mast.
(00:56):
The sail was patched with flour sacks and furled, and
it looked like the flag of permanent defeats. I know
John Gallagher knows who wrote that, and it wasn't Ai.
He's a reporter for thirty two years with the Free Press,
and the author of the book Russ Belt Reporter, a
memoir which you can still get. Wayne State University published
(01:19):
that book and he wrote it. And he's on our
AT and T line right now. Welcome back to the program.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Well, hey, good morning, Michael, how are you.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Those are the words of chorus of Ernest Hemingway, which
we have a special interest here in Michigan and The
Old Man in the Sea, the award winning novella, and
thank you for being here. And we know that was
written by a guy with a pulse, not artificial intelligence.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Right right. Well, you know it's funny you just had
a news item on the cameras now with AI are
going to suggest what's the best angle to take to
shoot a photo. I mean, some of this stuff is
just remarkable that we're saying with a what it could do,
and it's it's wonderful and it's scary at the same time.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
You know, Well, I had somebody write an email to
me recently and I said, oh, that sounds strangely formal
from this person. And then it occurred to me somebody
said that that's AI that wrote the email. So I
asked the person. They said, yeah, I was fooling around
with you know, chat, GPT or whatever. And I recognized
(02:27):
right away that it didn't sound like the person who
was writing to me. You have written a column where
you asked artificial intelligence to write like Ernest Hemingway, he
who wrote the short story up in Michigan as his
very first because he lived in the Walloon Lake area,
man Salona, and Potoski in all those places. So when
(02:47):
you asked Ai to write like Hemingway, what happened?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, I was schooling around with this, and I said,
you know, very simple experiment, write these fifty words on
taking a bus in Detroit in the style of Anyway,
and it immediately spat out. You know, the bus came,
it was late, men got on, women got on. They
were saying. You know, it sort of mimicked the style,
but didn't capture any of that emotion in the you know,
(03:15):
the piece you just read from the Old Man in
the Sea, which is packed with emotion, and this little
thing that Ai spit out didn't capture any of that.
It just kind of mimicked the style. So, you know,
I'm not sure it proves anything, Michael, but it is
sort of an interesting how quickly it does it and
how it sort of recognizes generally what it's supposed to do.
(03:35):
But you know, as you said with your friend with
the email, is it really the person, does it sound
like them, or is it just mimicry. You know, I
don't know. I guess we're still sort of learning all
about this.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Did you put yourself in there and say, AI write
a column like John Gallagher did for thirty two years.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, I did it, but my editor because in this
column and the Free Press after anyway, they said, well,
give me William Faulkner, Jane Austin, give me a haikup.
And it kind of in each case to kind of
spat out something that mimics this guy without really sounding
like them. So I entitor just said, you know, write
(04:18):
me one in the style of John Gallagher, and you know,
it kind of vaguely sounded like what I wrote for
the Free Press about covering Detroit for thirty years. But
you know what AI does, of course, it scrapes the
internet for whatever has been done before. You know, Stephen
King calls this plagiarism software because it just it doesn't
really create anything. It just kind of takes what's been
(04:41):
done and repackages it. But it doesn't it so quickly.
I mean, it doesn't take ten seconds or five seconds.
It's instantaneous, and that's that's fine. Like I said, I
find it remarkable and also a little scary, and I
think we're just learning. You know, what's this thing could do?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Tony Cuthbert put into Ai. I don't even know how
you do it, but he did it. He asked AI
to write a news article by Michael Patrick Shields about
Mackinaw Island because he knows I'm a travel writer. And
it came out like this, mystique and majesty Michigan's Mackinaw
Island a timeless treasure. Now, that was the headline, okay,
(05:23):
And then it says by Michael Patrick Shields. And then
it says, nestled between Michigan's Upper and Lower Peninsulas, where
the Great Lakes embrace one another, lies a jewel that
has captivated visitors for centuries, Mackinaw Island. And if I
wrote that, If I wrote that, I would barf. I
(05:45):
can't stand cliches, you know what I mean. It's clearly
that's a postcard kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Right exactly. That's sort of why you know, it's funny
when kids are told to write a theme on something. Michael,
when you and I were kids, we used to go
to the encyclopedia maybe and just kind of get some
ideas from that now they just put it in AI
and as you said, a lot of it's cliches, a
lot of it's the most obvious stuff. But it's so
(06:15):
easy and so you know, remarkable that it can happen
so quickly. I mean you could do an entire thousand
word essay in ten seconds. I mean, it's just sort
of weird. I don't know what. I don't quite know
what to think about it. And I was just as
I said, we were just fooling around with this column
to see see what it can do. But I think
there's a lot of answers yet.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Out there, and it's most sinister. AI could replicate the
voice of someone you care about and call you and
fool you and coach you out of your money, for instance.
That's that's what comes to mind as the most sinister
of AI.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I agree. And all these fake videos that are
online now, I mean, you can you can say, do me,
do me a video of George Washington wrestling with Abraham
Lincoln or something, and it'll it'll do it and it'll look,
you know, relatively realistic. But but you know, if you say,
show me a video of you know, Mayor Duggan taking
(07:15):
a bribe, it'll do that and it'll look realistic. And yeah,
some people have no way of knowing what's really what's not.
That's what's scary about this, that, you know, the ability
to fool people. I think, and hopefully you know, we
come up with some kind of controls on this so
(07:35):
that you know we're not just a wash and all
this you know, bs and misinformation.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I guess it's weirdly tempting. Like if I were under
deadline and I had to get something out quick, but
my soul would not allow me to do that. I mean,
maybe I could have the No, I don't want to
touch it. I do not John Gallagher want to even
touch it, because I could have it write the column
and then I could gussie it up, you know what
I mean, and sprinkle through it that kind of thing.
(08:05):
But I will not give into the devil. I won't
do it. It seems too sinister. And that's why I've
enjoyed your column very much. And do you like to
read Hemingway?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Oh? I love Hemingway. I've always read Anyway. And the
Old Man in the Sea, you know, the past that
you read is just just reminds me of how wonderful
it is, and how much he could pack into his stories.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So you mentioned Detroit real quickly, how about Elmoar Leonard.
I don't think AI could replicate that kind of dialogue.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
No, And that's what you know, That's what Elmoar Leonard
Dutch Leonard as we knew him, you know, that's what
he could do so well. I mean he wrote dialogue
like nobody else could. I can't imagine anybody but him
being able to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So your book is called russ Belt Reporter, a memoir,
and it's written by John Gallagher thirty two years. Thank
you so much, and you can read his column in
the Free Press where it originally appeared
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