Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Live across the Great Lake State. You're connected to Michigan's
most engaging and influential radio and television program, Michigan's Big
Show starring Michael Patrick Shields, presented by Blue Cross, Blue
Shield Michigan and Blue Care Network.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm producer and creative director Tony Cuthberts.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now in the shadow of the Capitol Dome and Lansing.
He's heard from the beaches of Lake Michigan, to the
halls of power and behind closed doors. Here's Michigan's Michael
Patrick Shields.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
You're not stupid, You're just in congress, baby girl.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Oh really, don't even play please blind bad built butsch
body that would not be engaging in personalities?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Correct? U?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh what now Michael Patrick Shields is on the air.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Good morning World, Good morning Michigan. Yes, those are members
of the United States House of Representatives, Republicans and Democrats
going at each other. And let's just say a less
than dignified fashion. Did that happen in ancient Rome? Well
Bred and circuses is what the satirist juvenile said to
(01:12):
refer to superficial appeasements used by the powerful to placate
the public and distract them from the actual political corruption.
Are we distracted by shiny things? Shiny things like celebrities
and musicians and athletes and influencers and political personalities like
(01:33):
you just heard there, even virtual reality, even the likes
of Ted Nugent, who appears on this program from time
to time, throwing flames all around. It's the supposition of
Kurt Warner, a licensed clinical social worker and therapist. His
book is called False Idols, How diversion is destroying Democracy.
(01:57):
Welcome to the airwaves, and thank you for being here.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Right, thank you, Thank you very much for having me
this morning.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Appreciate that very much. The fact that George Clooney, for instance,
let's say, one of the biggest stars in Hollywood, had
a huge fundraiser for Joe Biden twenty million dollars in
Los Angeles, and then two weeks later wrote an op
ed that Joe Biden shouldn't be the nominee. Is that
a perfect example of what you're talking about of a
(02:26):
celebrity having too much influence?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Absolutely anytime, there are a wealth of individuals who admire
George Cloney, and from the psychological perspective, the hurt instinct
would dictate that many of them will sort of follow
his lead whatever he says, And I'm not sure that
what George Clooney says should be why people vote a
(02:51):
certain way. And that's that's the notion dating all the
way back, like you said to a juvenile.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
Did you laugh or what did you think when you
heard that audio just now of Jasmine Crockett and Marjorie
Taylor Green, who make for a great copy. As we
used to say in that you almost have to be
sensational these days, it seems like or wacky to get
attention in the in the modern media world.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
You do and in every system in society that's reflected.
What's outrageous. What catches that attension is glittery and interesting
and fun to watch in the same way. You know,
I remember Jerry Springer growing up. That was the same
draw It was that notion that people were very drawn to.
It was the fights and the yelling. But at the
(03:42):
end of the day, I didn't hear any substance in
the discourse that you in the Crocket In that discourse
they played, I don't hear issues or things that matter
to the very people and their lives who are going
to be determined by the policies that they make and
so it's a it's a good media SoundBite, but it's not.
(04:05):
There's no substance, and that's I would like it, and
that I would liken that a lot to the circuses
of ancient Rome and when Juveniles said the bread and circuses,
the circuses being the coliseum, the gladiators, the free entertainment
that Rome put on in order to make people look
the other way so they can do what they wanted.
The wheat was provided so that the senators, so that
(04:28):
people didn't get so poor that they revolted. So the
Rome provided just enough food, you know, to the poor,
to the people who didn't have, so that they would
be complacent. And that's I would argue both on the
entertainment in the same way it's mirrored today. It's just
in a much more complex world in late two thousand
years later in America, in a much more complex world.
(04:51):
There are many more systems that are capable of doing this.
And that's what I'm trying to highlight and illuminate in
the book.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
The book is called False Idols, How diversion is destroying democracy?
And good God, are you comparing the United States government
and the House of representatives and the Senate and even
the White House to the Jerry Springer Show at a
big scale, I.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Just did yes. And that's what gets to sound bite
rather than something about healthcare or poverty. And that's where
I feel like. One of the things I highlight a
lot in the book is the notion of critical thinking
and sifting through this so that we can discern what's
important from what's for lack of a better circuses, for what's,
(05:36):
you know, just entertainment like that.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Because you're a licensed clinical social worker and a therapist.
There is a phrase going around called Trump derangement syndrome,
and I'm not speaking about it in any kind of
support or detraction from the current president. However, I do
tend to believe that there are people who are so
preoccupied with this man that they see everything through the
(06:03):
prism of him. Is that fair?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's absolutely fair. The first chapter in the book, I
have a chapter on celebrity, which, after all, Donald Trump
was way before he was president, and the notion of celebrity.
There's this concept of parasocial relationships that we have and
the statistics. There's a lot of statistics that I discussed,
(06:29):
but ninety percent of us have a parasocial relationship with
a celebrity at some point in our lives. Thirty percent
of that ninety percent want to be that person. And
this Ralph Aldo Emerson said imitation is suicide, and I
would argue that's a big part of the downfall of
we when we commit sort of a when we commit
(06:52):
a suicide of self by trying to become the celebrity,
we advocate our responsibility to ourselves to each other. And
that's what I think is occurring on a large scale.
People are obsessed with Donald Trump and Trump de arrangement.
Syndro might think has traction and there is a credible
(07:13):
notion to it in the same way we could say
about other celebrities, and Taylor Swift would be a good example.
People get so consumed with it that they lose I think, theirselves,
and that lack of identity I think has remarkable repercussions
on the Republic because when we're trying to do that,
(07:34):
we're not focusing on I would argue what matters.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Well. I have friends, one in particular, where I could say, oh,
the Yankees lost last night, and he'll say something about
Trump in response, it'll weave it in there in almost
like an astonishingly psychopathic creative way, and it just destroys
the conversation because I'm like, oh, really, I wasn't talking
(07:59):
Aboutald Trump, but that's all you can seem to talk about.
What should my response be?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I think in terms of I think a good response
to that would be something like, why is it that
we always have to bring everything back to Donald Trump?
There's a lot of other things, you know, why are
you so limited by the concept of Donald Trump? Because
I think a gentle confrontation would be a very therapeutic
approach there.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
If that would be you know what I think they
might say in response, You don't realize how serious this is.
He's destroying America, That's what they'll say, I.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Believe, and that, in my mind, would open the door
then to a very interesting conversation about why they feel
that way, and then a dialectic, if you will between.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
I think what we'll do is we'll just send them
your book, Kurt Warner's book False Idols, How Diversion Is
Destroying Democracy. Thank you for the warning.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
It's a magical month of winning at fire Keepers with
our sweet sixteenth anniversary. Celebrate with a Mustang Magic Giveaway
on Saturday, August thirtieth, and you could win thousands in
cash and Red Hot credits plus one of two Smoking
Hot twenty twenty five Mustangs. Drawing start at two pm
(09:20):
with four winners of four thousand in Red Hot credits.
At four pm, two winners each get eight thousand in
Red Hot credits. At six pm, one winner score sixteen
thousand cash, and at eight pm we're giving away a
Mustang Ego Boost. Then at ten pm it's the Grand
Prize drawing for a stunning sixtieth anniversary Mustang gt Aaron
(09:42):
entries daily plus are double entries every Wednesday now through
August thirtieth for the Mustang Magic Giveaway. The best giveaways,
the biggest guaranteed prizes only at fire Keepers. Get your
Vegas on at fire Keepers Casino Hotel by ninety four
to What's at one of feign Battle Creek Management reserves
all rights.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
We sit excited on the bus, the sidelines, courtside in dugouts,
waiting for our shot. Driven by greatness, for decades, Dean
Trailways has delivered athletes safely to their battlegrounds, not as
a spectator, but as a teammate. Much more than a job,
a true calling with all the purpose and performance that
champions possess. Join the Dean Team today and experience what
(10:24):
it means to be driven by greatness. Go Team, Go
Dean Dean jobs dot com.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Whether they're dough boys, comments, or even gremlins, every public
school in Michigan is proud to be known for something,
and at the Michigan Lottery, we're proud to be known
for something too. Education. I'm Lottery Commissioner Susanna Shcrelli, and
one hundred percent of our profits go to support the
state School Aid Fund. Last year, the lottery contributed over
one billion dollars. So whatever hometown school you're from, we're
(10:52):
rooting for all of them. The Michigan Lottery for fun
for schools.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Knowing your limits as always the best back
Live across the Great Lake State. You're connected to Michigan's
most engaging and influential radio and television program, Michigan's Big
Show starring Michael Patrick Shields, presented by Blue Cross, Blue
Shield Michigan and Blue Care Network.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm producer and creative director Tony Cuthberts.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now in the shadow of the Capitol Dome and Lansing.
He's heard from the beaches of Lake Michigan, to the
halls of power and behind closed doors. Here's Michigan's Michael
Patrick Shields.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
You're not stupid, You're just in congress, baby girl.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Oh really, don't even play please blind bad built butsch
body that would not be engaging in personalities?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Correct? U?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh what now Michael Patrick Shields is on the air.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Good morning World, Good morning Michigan. Yes, those are members
of the United States House of Representatives, Republicans and Democrats
going at each other. And let's just say a less
than dignified fashion. Did that happen in ancient Rome? Well
Bred and circuses is what the satirist juvenile said to
(01:12):
refer to superficial appeasements used by the powerful to placate
the public and distract them from the actual political corruption.
Are we distracted by shiny things? Shiny things like celebrities
and musicians and athletes and influencers and political personalities like
(01:33):
you just heard there, even virtual reality, even the likes
of Ted Nugent, who appears on this program from time
to time, throwing flames all around. It's the supposition of
Kurt Warner, a licensed clinical social worker and therapist. His
book is called False Idols, How diversion is destroying Democracy.
(01:57):
Welcome to the airwaves, and thank you for being here.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Right, thank you, Thank you very much for having me
this morning.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Appreciate that very much. The fact that George Clooney, for instance,
let's say, one of the biggest stars in Hollywood, had
a huge fundraiser for Joe Biden twenty million dollars in
Los Angeles, and then two weeks later wrote an op
ed that Joe Biden shouldn't be the nominee. Is that
a perfect example of what you're talking about of a
(02:26):
celebrity having too much influence?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Absolutely anytime, there are a wealth of individuals who admire
George Cloney, and from the psychological perspective, the hurt instinct
would dictate that many of them will sort of follow
his lead whatever he says, And I'm not sure that
what George Clooney says should be why people vote a
(02:51):
certain way. And that's that's the notion dating all the
way back, like you said to a juvenile.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
Did you laugh or what did you think when you
heard that audio just now of Jasmine Crockett and Marjorie
Taylor Green, who make for a great copy. As we
used to say in that you almost have to be
sensational these days, it seems like or wacky to get
attention in the in the modern media world.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
You do and in every system in society that's reflected.
What's outrageous. What catches that attension is glittery and interesting
and fun to watch in the same way. You know,
I remember Jerry Springer growing up. That was the same
draw It was that notion that people were very drawn to.
It was the fights and the yelling. But at the
(03:42):
end of the day, I didn't hear any substance in
the discourse that you in the Crocket In that discourse
they played, I don't hear issues or things that matter
to the very people and their lives who are going
to be determined by the policies that they make and
so it's a it's a good media SoundBite, but it's not.
(04:05):
There's no substance, and that's I would like it, and
that I would liken that a lot to the circuses
of ancient Rome and when Juveniles said the bread and circuses,
the circuses being the coliseum, the gladiators, the free entertainment
that Rome put on in order to make people look
the other way so they can do what they wanted.
The wheat was provided so that the senators, so that
(04:28):
people didn't get so poor that they revolted. So the
Rome provided just enough food, you know, to the poor,
to the people who didn't have, so that they would
be complacent. And that's I would argue both on the
entertainment in the same way it's mirrored today. It's just
in a much more complex world in late two thousand
years later in America, in a much more complex world.
(04:51):
There are many more systems that are capable of doing this.
And that's what I'm trying to highlight and illuminate in
the book.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
The book is called False Idols, How diversion is destroying democracy?
And good God, are you comparing the United States government
and the House of representatives and the Senate and even
the White House to the Jerry Springer Show at a
big scale, I.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Just did yes. And that's what gets to sound bite
rather than something about healthcare or poverty. And that's where
I feel like. One of the things I highlight a
lot in the book is the notion of critical thinking
and sifting through this so that we can discern what's
important from what's for lack of a better circuses, for what's,
(05:36):
you know, just entertainment like that.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Because you're a licensed clinical social worker and a therapist.
There is a phrase going around called Trump derangement syndrome,
and I'm not speaking about it in any kind of
support or detraction from the current president. However, I do
tend to believe that there are people who are so
preoccupied with this man that they see everything through the
(06:03):
prism of him. Is that fair?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's absolutely fair. The first chapter in the book, I
have a chapter on celebrity, which, after all, Donald Trump
was way before he was president, and the notion of celebrity.
There's this concept of parasocial relationships that we have and
the statistics. There's a lot of statistics that I discussed,
(06:29):
but ninety percent of us have a parasocial relationship with
a celebrity at some point in our lives. Thirty percent
of that ninety percent want to be that person. And
this Ralph Aldo Emerson said imitation is suicide, and I
would argue that's a big part of the downfall of
we when we commit sort of a when we commit
(06:52):
a suicide of self by trying to become the celebrity,
we advocate our responsibility to ourselves to each other. And
that's what I think is occurring on a large scale.
People are obsessed with Donald Trump and Trump de arrangement.
Syndro might think has traction and there is a credible
(07:13):
notion to it in the same way we could say
about other celebrities, and Taylor Swift would be a good example.
People get so consumed with it that they lose I think, theirselves,
and that lack of identity I think has remarkable repercussions
on the Republic because when we're trying to do that,
(07:34):
we're not focusing on I would argue what matters.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Well. I have friends, one in particular, where I could say, oh,
the Yankees lost last night, and he'll say something about
Trump in response, it'll weave it in there in almost
like an astonishingly psychopathic creative way, and it just destroys
the conversation because I'm like, oh, really, I wasn't talking
(07:59):
Aboutald Trump, but that's all you can seem to talk about.
What should my response be?
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I think in terms of I think a good response
to that would be something like, why is it that
we always have to bring everything back to Donald Trump?
There's a lot of other things, you know, why are
you so limited by the concept of Donald Trump? Because
I think a gentle confrontation would be a very therapeutic
approach there.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
If that would be you know what I think they
might say in response, You don't realize how serious this is.
He's destroying America, That's what they'll say, I.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Believe, and that, in my mind, would open the door
then to a very interesting conversation about why they feel
that way, and then a dialectic, if you will between.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
I think what we'll do is we'll just send them
your book, Kurt Warner's book False Idols, How Diversion Is
Destroying Democracy. Thank you for the warning.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
It's a magical month of winning at fire Keepers with
our sweet sixteenth anniversary. Celebrate with a Mustang Magic Giveaway
on Saturday, August thirtieth, and you could win thousands in
cash and Red Hot credits plus one of two Smoking
Hot twenty twenty five Mustangs. Drawing start at two pm
(09:20):
with four winners of four thousand in Red Hot credits.
At four pm, two winners each get eight thousand in
Red Hot credits. At six pm, one winner score sixteen
thousand cash, and at eight pm we're giving away a
Mustang Ego Boost. Then at ten pm it's the Grand
Prize drawing for a stunning sixtieth anniversary Mustang gt Aaron
(09:42):
entries daily plus are double entries every Wednesday now through
August thirtieth for the Mustang Magic Giveaway. The best giveaways,
the biggest guaranteed prizes only at fire Keepers. Get your
Vegas on at fire Keepers Casino Hotel by ninety four
to What's at one of feign Battle Creek Management reserves
all rights.
Speaker 6 (10:01):
We sit excited on the bus, the sidelines, courtside in dugouts,
waiting for our shot. Driven by greatness, for decades, Dean
Trailways has delivered athletes safely to their battlegrounds, not as
a spectator, but as a teammate. Much more than a job,
a true calling with all the purpose and performance that
champions possess. Join the Dean Team today and experience what
(10:24):
it means to be driven by greatness. Go Team, Go
Dean Dean jobs dot com.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Whether they're dough boys, comments, or even gremlins, every public
school in Michigan is proud to be known for something,
and at the Michigan Lottery, we're proud to be known
for something too. Education. I'm Lottery Commissioner Susanna Shcrelli, and
one hundred percent of our profits go to support the
state School Aid Fund. Last year, the lottery contributed over
one billion dollars. So whatever hometown school you're from, we're
(10:52):
rooting for all of them. The Michigan Lottery for fun
for schools.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Knowing your limits as always the best back
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