Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Do you love your listen.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
To your lad you see.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Common man without common man? Oh, we're talking about conviction.
Are you a man or a woman without conviction? Is
it because maybe you're not sure what to believe anymore?
Or you know, are you a ticket splitter? You somebody
who thinks I like this person for office, maybe that
(00:43):
person might be better? Do you not follow r indeed?
Do not pull one lever? For all the Democrats or
all the Republicans? How do you go about that? Do
you have conviction? And is it okay? If you have
varied opinions on different things? People might say you're a
flip flopper. That's what they say, say if you're running
for office, But you know, does that mean you don't
have conviction? Business leaders for Michigan is united by an
(01:07):
ambitious goal to make Michigan a top ten state for
jobs and talent and a thriving economy. For instance, I
don't think they're at all a partisan group. They know
what's needed for our state is a unified vision and
a collective action that'll draw more talent, that'll increase investment
and create a healthy pipeline of scalable companies. They want
(01:29):
the future built right here in Michigan. However we get there.
Lisa Posthumous Lions is on our radio stage right now.
She's the Kent County Clerk and cares about Michigan too.
Thank you for being here. I appreciate your presence.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Good morning, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Do you think right now there is in our state
a unified vision for collective action?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think just by nature of a collective there's not
always going to be uniformity, but definitely unity in greater visions.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So there are people, as I mentioned earlier, who like
certain candidates, they believe in certain candidates, they've taken the
time to just kind of study them, and so they get
shut out sometimes depending on where they live in the state.
We've heard about redistricting. You know, if they live in
a region that's largely Republican, sometimes maybe they feel their
vote doesn't count. And so along comes this idea of
(02:29):
something called ranked choice voting. And I don't know if
that's used only in primaries or in general elections or
that's necessarily how it all applies. But you get to
sort of pick your favorite, and your second favorite, then
your third favorite, and you fourth. So it isn't like
maybe a black or white decision, this or that are
(02:49):
or de conservat You know that sounds kind of appealing,
does it or doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well? We think a Tony or Michigan County Clerks Association,
which has made it a practice to never really take
a position, take public stances as a group on numerous
voter reform measures, feel this proposal is so problematic that
(03:18):
it was important for our organization to take a public
stance and warn voters about the unintended consequences and what
this proposal means. So that eighty three Michigan County Clerks
voted unanimously to oppose the position. To oppose the proposal,
(03:40):
This position transcends geography, it transcends population of counties, and
it transcends party lines. That should speak volumes.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, it certainly does.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But what's so?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
What's wrong with that?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
We have? We have great concerns, particularly as it relates
to election administration, about conflicts with our existing constitutional provisions,
ballot length, the complexity and timing of our audits and recounts,
and the lack of transparency as a result of this,
(04:22):
and and truly the inevitability of delayed results and the
rank choice voting is going to drastically take a lot
longer to determine a winner, and we've seen when results
are delayed, that creates that creates room for conspiracies, for uncertainty,
(04:48):
for misinformation, and that really erose public trust. So we're very,
very concerned about that.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Seventeen states have banned the practice. You tell me, sixty
five percent of Michigander, according to polling, oppose ranked choice voting.
Did I describe accurately what it is?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah? You you did. This proposal would would would apply
to both the primary and the general election. But yeah,
you you mentioned Michael Patrick about picking your first favorite,
then your second, then your third, than your first favorite.
A lot of voters don't have a third or a
fourth or even a second favorite, and it's really about
(05:30):
choosing who do you want to have this job? And
so we're also concerned about We're also concerned about what's
called ballot exhaustion. And that's that's a problem because you know,
you either voters are confused because it takes longer and
make it makes they make errors more errors are are
(05:53):
are just the fact of the matter with ranked choice voting.
Ballot exhaustion, where where the voters ballot no longer unger
count because all of their ranked candidates have been eliminated.
That occurs at a significant rate, and so basically that
ballot for that race is is not counted, their voice
isn't isn't counted. And we again, there's just there's a
(06:15):
there's a certain element of our elections where we where
we cherish, you know, making your voice or and having
saving your vote count. So that's why we have such
serious concerns with this.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Do you know if there's any state in the nation
that uses ranked choice voting?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Uh, there are several. There are several states. I know
Alaska uses ranked choice voting. There, Alaska uses ranked choice voting.
And that's one of the states that we've looked at
that has taken an incredibly long time, you know, days,
uh potentially weeks to get our to get their ballot
results or their election results back.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Does rank choice voting favor one party over another according
to data?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
No, no, I don't. We certainly don't believe so. In
the fact, I mean anecdotally, Especially the fact that eighty
three Republican and Democrat county clerks unanimously opposed this proposal
should tell you that this isn't about partisan advantage. This
is about this is about making sure every vote counts,
(07:26):
making sure our elections remain straightforward and transparent and accurate,
and that voters get election results in a timely manner
that they deserve.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So the push to get this done, is it being
done through like a ballot proposal or who's who's advocating it?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, this is this is you know, out of state
special interests that are coming in putting forward petitions to
get on the ballot, to place it on the to
place a proposal before the voters in the November twenty
twenty sixth election.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Do you know what they're telling telling people when they
ask for signatures.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I actually I don't know what they're saying because I
haven't seen anybody out there. I mean, I'm not engaged
or talked to anybody, So I really don't know what
the what the shtick is. But I really i've you know,
what we've been seeing in the media, and you know
this is our politics are so polarizing, and we need less,
(08:25):
we need less extreme candidates, and I just have to
put out there that I think this proposal is attempting
to treat a symptom. And what really we need is
for particularly in primaries, we need everybody to go out
and vote. When you're talking about primary voters, generally those
(08:46):
are the those are the most passionate voters on either
end of the political spectrum.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, they tend to show up. Lisa posthumous Lions, Ken
County Clerk. Where were heard on WTKG. Thank you, We'll
keep in touch.
Do you love your listen.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
To your lad you see.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Common man without common man? Oh, we're talking about conviction.
Are you a man or a woman without conviction? Is
it because maybe you're not sure what to believe anymore?
Or you know, are you a ticket splitter? You somebody
who thinks I like this person for office, maybe that
(00:43):
person might be better? Do you not follow r indeed?
Do not pull one lever? For all the Democrats or
all the Republicans? How do you go about that? Do
you have conviction? And is it okay? If you have
varied opinions on different things? People might say you're a
flip flopper. That's what they say, say if you're running
for office, But you know, does that mean you don't
have conviction? Business leaders for Michigan is united by an
(01:07):
ambitious goal to make Michigan a top ten state for
jobs and talent and a thriving economy. For instance, I
don't think they're at all a partisan group. They know
what's needed for our state is a unified vision and
a collective action that'll draw more talent, that'll increase investment
and create a healthy pipeline of scalable companies. They want
(01:29):
the future built right here in Michigan. However we get there.
Lisa Posthumous Lions is on our radio stage right now.
She's the Kent County Clerk and cares about Michigan too.
Thank you for being here. I appreciate your presence.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Good morning, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Do you think right now there is in our state
a unified vision for collective action?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think just by nature of a collective there's not
always going to be uniformity, but definitely unity in greater visions.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So there are people, as I mentioned earlier, who like
certain candidates, they believe in certain candidates, they've taken the
time to just kind of study them, and so they get
shut out sometimes depending on where they live in the state.
We've heard about redistricting. You know, if they live in
a region that's largely Republican, sometimes maybe they feel their
vote doesn't count. And so along comes this idea of
(02:29):
something called ranked choice voting. And I don't know if
that's used only in primaries or in general elections or
that's necessarily how it all applies. But you get to
sort of pick your favorite, and your second favorite, then
your third favorite, and you fourth. So it isn't like
maybe a black or white decision, this or that are
(02:49):
or de conservat You know that sounds kind of appealing,
does it or doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well? We think a Tony or Michigan County Clerks Association,
which has made it a practice to never really take
a position, take public stances as a group on numerous
voter reform measures, feel this proposal is so problematic that
(03:18):
it was important for our organization to take a public
stance and warn voters about the unintended consequences and what
this proposal means. So that eighty three Michigan County Clerks
voted unanimously to oppose the position. To oppose the proposal,
(03:40):
This position transcends geography, it transcends population of counties, and
it transcends party lines. That should speak volumes.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, it certainly does.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
But what's so?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
What's wrong with that?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
We have? We have great concerns, particularly as it relates
to election administration, about conflicts with our existing constitutional provisions,
ballot length, the complexity and timing of our audits and recounts,
and the lack of transparency as a result of this,
(04:22):
and and truly the inevitability of delayed results and the
rank choice voting is going to drastically take a lot
longer to determine a winner, and we've seen when results
are delayed, that creates that creates room for conspiracies, for uncertainty,
(04:48):
for misinformation, and that really erose public trust. So we're very,
very concerned about that.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Seventeen states have banned the practice. You tell me, sixty
five percent of Michigander, according to polling, oppose ranked choice voting.
Did I describe accurately what it is?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah? You you did. This proposal would would would apply
to both the primary and the general election. But yeah,
you you mentioned Michael Patrick about picking your first favorite,
then your second, then your third, than your first favorite.
A lot of voters don't have a third or a
fourth or even a second favorite, and it's really about
(05:30):
choosing who do you want to have this job? And
so we're also concerned about We're also concerned about what's
called ballot exhaustion. And that's that's a problem because you know,
you either voters are confused because it takes longer and
make it makes they make errors more errors are are
(05:53):
are just the fact of the matter with ranked choice voting.
Ballot exhaustion, where where the voters ballot no longer unger
count because all of their ranked candidates have been eliminated.
That occurs at a significant rate, and so basically that
ballot for that race is is not counted, their voice
isn't isn't counted. And we again, there's just there's a
(06:15):
there's a certain element of our elections where we where
we cherish, you know, making your voice or and having
saving your vote count. So that's why we have such
serious concerns with this.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Do you know if there's any state in the nation
that uses ranked choice voting?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Uh, there are several. There are several states. I know
Alaska uses ranked choice voting. There, Alaska uses ranked choice voting.
And that's one of the states that we've looked at
that has taken an incredibly long time, you know, days,
uh potentially weeks to get our to get their ballot
results or their election results back.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Does rank choice voting favor one party over another according
to data?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
No, no, I don't. We certainly don't believe so. In
the fact, I mean anecdotally, Especially the fact that eighty
three Republican and Democrat county clerks unanimously opposed this proposal
should tell you that this isn't about partisan advantage. This
is about this is about making sure every vote counts,
(07:26):
making sure our elections remain straightforward and transparent and accurate,
and that voters get election results in a timely manner
that they deserve.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So the push to get this done, is it being
done through like a ballot proposal or who's who's advocating it?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, this is this is you know, out of state
special interests that are coming in putting forward petitions to
get on the ballot, to place it on the to
place a proposal before the voters in the November twenty
twenty sixth election.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Do you know what they're telling telling people when they
ask for signatures.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I actually I don't know what they're saying because I
haven't seen anybody out there. I mean, I'm not engaged
or talked to anybody, So I really don't know what
the what the shtick is. But I really i've you know,
what we've been seeing in the media, and you know
this is our politics are so polarizing, and we need less,
(08:25):
we need less extreme candidates, and I just have to
put out there that I think this proposal is attempting
to treat a symptom. And what really we need is
for particularly in primaries, we need everybody to go out
and vote. When you're talking about primary voters, generally those
(08:46):
are the those are the most passionate voters on either
end of the political spectrum.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, they tend to show up. Lisa posthumous Lions, Ken
County Clerk. Where were heard on WTKG. Thank you, We'll
keep in touch.
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