Michael Cremo Wednesday May 14th 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Good evening everyone, and welcome to Midnight Freakancy Radio. I'm
Cararal Richardson, your host, and we're coming to you from
the Ozark Foothills of northeast Arkansas. Our guest tonight is
Michael Cremo. And mister Cremo, how are you doing, sir?

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Doing fine out here in Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
It's not hot and human out there, is it?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Not? Yet?

Speaker 1 (01:10):
It's getting that way here. The first thing I wanted
to ask you is how did you become a researcher
of human origins?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, I think that has a lot to do with
the way I grew up. My father was an officer,
an intelligence officer in the United States Air Force, and
that meant a couple of things for me as I
was growing up. One thing it meant is that our
family was traveling to a lot of different places overseas

(01:43):
and within the United States. When I was a teenager
high school age, we were living in Germany, where my
father was stationed at a base there, and on my
school vacations, I would go to different places in Europe
because I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity being

(02:08):
there and not just stay on the base with the
American facility. At the American facilities, which it was possible
to do, I wanted to get out and see the places.
So during one vacation, I traveled to Stockholm, Sweden, and

(02:30):
I was staying in a youth hostel there, and I
met some European young people who had traveled over land
to India, through Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and then to India.

(02:50):
Of course, it's very troubled part of the world these days,
not so easy to do things like that, but then
it was possible. So I was kind of interested by
their stories about what they encountered, their different kinds of
yogis and meditators, and the Himalayan mountains and the Ganges

(03:19):
River and places like that, and I became interested in
learning something about that place. So as part of my
you could say research, I began studying the ancient sanscrit
writings of India, and I found they contained histories of

(03:43):
human populations existing on Earth millions of years ago. Now
you have to keep in mind that from my teachers
in high school, I was learning that humans had been
around about fifty thousand years years, so to hear that
they'd been around a lot longer than that was a

(04:04):
little surprising to me, and as I got older, I
went to the university and did my studies, and I
learned pretty much the same thing as I'd heard in
high school, that human beings have been around fifty thousand,
maybe one hundred thousand years. So I decided to to

(04:31):
look into the question a little bit whether these accounts
in these ancient books were some kind of mythology that
had been invented by the authors, or was there perhaps
some factual basis for it. So, of course, if you

(04:51):
look in the current textbooks, you're not going to see
any discoveries that contradict the a dominant accepted view today,
namely that humans have been around for a relatively short
period of time. And this could be the influence of

(05:13):
my association with people involved in the intelligence services, which
I was as a teenager growing up in a military
base in Germany during the height of the Cold War.

(05:34):
I had friends whose parents were in the CIA and
different other intelligence agencies, and I came to understand that
there is such a thing as hidden knowledge, knowledge that
most people aren't aware of that kind of goes beyond
what you read about in the newspapers. And things of

(05:59):
that sort. So that's what got me looking beyond the
textbooks into the original scientific reports by archaeologists and paleontologists
and geologists other scientists who have been digging into the earth.

(06:21):
And when I look at that literature over the which
extends back a century or two from the present, I
began to see many reports, credible reports by these scientists
of discoveries of human bones, human artifacts, and human footprints

(06:48):
that were far older than the fifty or one hundred
thousand years that scientists at the time accepted as the
first appearance of humans on this planet. Today, twenty thirty
years later, they're thinking maybe three hundred thousand years, but

(07:12):
nowhere as old as these discoveries. So I had to wonder, well,
why if these discoveries are there, and the original scientific reports,
why aren't they in the textbooks today? And that led

(07:32):
me to conclude that there's a process of knowledge filtration
that goes on in the world of science, and how
it operates is like this. You know, if you've got
evidence that conforms to the current dominant theory, it passes
through this knowledge filter very easily. But if you've got

(07:56):
evidence that radically contradicts the dominant can census theory. It
has put aside, it's forgotten, it's dismissed on very flimsy grounds,
and you don't hear about it. So that's why I

(08:18):
called this topic Forbidden Archaeology, which is the name of
the book that I am best known for collected all
those reports and put them in that book.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, so pretty much, if you don't fit the mainstream ideas,
they kind of want to flign it and set you aside.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well, yeah, we all have to do some knowledge filtration.
We don't accept everything and anything anyone happens to say
to us, either on social media or the internet or
in person. We have some Each of us has some
standard that we apply to make judgments about what information

(09:08):
is credible to us and what we're going to do
with it. I think the problem comes in when a
person or a group of people uses a double standard
in the way that they approach their personal process of

(09:31):
knowledge filtering. And we've seen disputes about that in the
world of politics, censoring and things like that that go
on in social media, but it operates in other fields
as well. So will happen in a particular case. We'll

(09:58):
stay like, if you take a bit building inspector, and
for somebody he likes, he overlooks some violations of the code,
it's all right, go ahead, we'll give you your permit,
let you open your building. But for somebody doesn't like,
who has the same level of possible violations of code,

(10:24):
throws the book at him. So all I would ask
for is well, identify what your standards are for doing
your knowledge filtering, and apply them equally to all the
things that come to your attention. So I think I've

(10:47):
pretty much demonstrated and my book Forbidden Archaeology, not only
the fact that these discoveries have been made, but I've
also documented the process by which they have been filtered
out and shown. I believe pretty credibly that it's a

(11:09):
result of applying a double standard in the way one
treats evidence. And this is not an idea that's new
with me. There have been historians of science and philosophers
of science, like Thomas Kuhn, for example, who have recognized
that this is a real problem, that theoretical preconceptions can

(11:34):
often determine how a scientist reacts to different categories of
evidence that come to their attention. Thomas Kuhn popularized the
term paradigm. People talk about a paradigm shift. So what

(11:56):
is a paradigm. A paradigm is a set of ideas
that are accepted by an individual or group of people
that kind of govern what is to be considered evidence
and what is not, what is credible and what is not.
And sometimes things come up, they're called anomalies that don't

(12:21):
fit the paradigm, and maybe for some time supporters of
the current view are able to ignore them and set
them aside and say we'll get to it later. But
sometimes they pile up so heavily that they're compelled to
change their paradigm, their theoretical conceptions about the scientific discipline

(12:49):
they're dealing with, whether it's archaeology or physics or chemistry whatever.
That's a little bit about that topic.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Now, there was a I believe it was a documentary
that you were involved with and called The Mysterious Origins.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
Of Man, and that stirred up a situation and it
met with some kickback, did it not.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, I mean that that's a bit of media history,
you could say, because I mean what happened was in
nineteen ninety three, the first edition of my book Forbid
and Archaeology came out and it got into the hands

(13:45):
of a lot of people. One of the people that
got a copy of it was a lady from Louisiana
named Jeane Hunt. And she called me on the phone
one day and said to me, Michael, I really like

(14:08):
your book. I'm not going to imitate her Southern accent,
but she was very quite a gentlewoman, and then she said,
you know, I read your book and I think it
should be brought to the attention of a friend of
mine in New York City who was a television producer

(14:35):
who was working on a documentary for NBC. So I
got in touch with this television producer and he said, yeah,
we've got to have some of this some of the
cases from my book in this documentary, which featured the

(15:00):
work of other researchers and alternative archaeology like Robert Bball
and Graham Hancock and some others. So he filmed some
interviews with me and my co author, Richard Thompson, and

(15:29):
the yeah, he made his clip, you know, this review
copy of it that he sent to NBC and they
accepted it for broadcasting on prime time on a Sunday evening,

(15:50):
which is the time when most people watch television in
those days. Like I said, this is a bit of
a media history lesson, but it was interesting what happened.
The show, which was called The Mysterious Origins of Man,

(16:10):
was very popular and it inspired an extreme negative backlash
from archaeologists and the rest of the scientific world, and
that reaction became even greater when people learned that NBC

(16:34):
was going to show it a second time. The scientists
involved in this action tried to get sponsors to boycott
the show, and they also made a petition to the
Federal Communications Commission, the FCC, which licenses television and radio

(17:02):
broadcasting companies. They wanted the FCC to find NBC millions
of dollars for having shown this program. They wanted the
FCC to compel NBC to publicly apologize for having the show,

(17:26):
and they also wanted the FCC to compel NBC to
give these scientists an hour long program of their own
for them to respond. I'm happy to say that NBC

(17:46):
was not subjected to any of those punishments from the FCC,
but I thought it was interesting that such attempts were made.
I think it's still going on. This process, of course,
the media landscape has changed since the mid nineteen nineties.

(18:10):
Today there's a lot more channels by which people get
their content. But Graham Hancock has had a Netflix series
going on for some time called Ancient Apocalypse I think
it is, and the Society for American Anthropology has been

(18:38):
publicly lobbying against that series. So it's something that does
happen when you have groups of people that are under
the impression that they have the right to determine what
people are going to hear and see. They tend to

(19:03):
object when someone else puts a different message, a different
narrative into the media content that people looking for information
and knowledge are seeking. So that sort of thing went

(19:25):
on in my case some years ago, and it's still
still going on. Graham Hancock isn't talking about the same
kind of evidence I am. He deals with evidence for

(19:45):
the existence of civilization maybe twenty thousand years ago. According
to the mainstream consensus, civilization didn't start until about ten
thousand years ago. Before that, people didn't even live in villages.

(20:07):
They were a hundred gatherers wandering around, surviving on what
they could scavenge or harvests from the forest of the
fields and whatever kind of game they could acquire. So

(20:28):
even if you deviate slightly from the accepted narrative, there
can be extreme reactions.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, I'm so curious. When archaeological discovery is made, how
was the age of the item determined? Is it through
how deep it was in rock? Or is it also
carbon dated?

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Well, it can be. It can involve many different methods
and they do depend upon, as you say, looking at
the layers the geological sequence, I mean, the basic position
is unless there's been some disturbance, either by Earth movements

(21:20):
or some other factor. Generally, the higher deposits are younger,
the lower deposits in an excavation are are older. That's
the general principle. And the different layers can be analyzed

(21:48):
according to their composition. For example, if somebody's drilling a well,
for example, you know you can get a drilling recruit
that you and making the well like an Artesian well
for example. You know you drill down to through the
different layers. You know, one foot atop soil, two feet

(22:14):
of sand, one foot of clay, three feet of pebbles,
and then you hit the solid rock a foot or
two of sandstone. You can analyze the sequence of layers,
and it's for the age of those layers that can

(22:36):
sometimes be judged by studying the kinds of plant and
animal remains that are in them. So that's one way
that it's done, and then the other way, and there
you just have to show that the artifact or footprint

(22:57):
or human bone that you're considering belongs in the layer
in which it was found. Now, one way to do
that is by carbon dating, but each dating method has
its limitations. Carbon twelve carbon the radiocarbon method works back

(23:23):
to about one hundred thousand years. It's based on the
idea that an organism, a human organism or plant or
animal has carbon in it, where a carbon based life form.
So that carbon exists in two forms, carbon twelve and

(23:46):
carbon fourteen with these different isotopes. The carbon twelve is
not radioactive. The carbon fourteen in the body is radio active,
which means it decays into other elements. So that process

(24:09):
of decay is called it goes in cycles called half lives.
The half life of carbon fourteen is about five thousand
years roughly, so that means after five thousand years, the

(24:29):
amount of carbon fourteen is cut by half. Half of
it decays into other elements half remains as carbon fourteen. Meanwhile,
the amount of carbon twelve is staying the same. It
doesn't decay radioactively. So the second half life you cut

(24:56):
it cut the amount of carbon fourteen by another another
half life, and by the time you get to about
twenty half lives, there's no more carbon left to measure.
So that's the limit of that dating method. Because each
half life is about fifty years, you go through twenty

(25:21):
excuse me, five thousand years. Each half life is about
five thousand years, so you go through twenty of those
half lives. That takes you back about one hundred thousand years.
So if scientists find a dinosaur bone, there's no method

(25:42):
that they can use to date the bone itself and
get a correct age. They would have to date. There
are geological methods that will allow them to date the
age of the formation which it's found, especially if it's

(26:06):
got some radioactive elements in it, like Another method for
directly dating bone is called the uranium series method. Again,
it's based on the decay of uranium into daughter elements,
and by measuring how much it has decayed, you can

(26:31):
get some idea of how old the bone is, but
that only works back to a few hundred thousand years.
If we're talking about bones that have been found and
say layers of rock four or five million years old,

(26:53):
there's no way to directly date them. You have to
date them by the age of the formation in which
they're found, and there are methods that will allow them
to do that. But then you have to be careful
that the bone actually originates in the layer in which

(27:19):
it was found, because sometimes skeptical scientists will say, well,
it's possible the bone could have slipped down through a fissure,
or it's possible there was some kind of earth movement,

(27:40):
some big earthquake or something that resulted in things from
the surface being embedded deeply in the stratigraphy of the site.
Or they could say, possibly there was a hoax, or
possibly the original discoverer was mistaken. And that's why, you know,

(28:06):
and my work in investigating these things, I have to
study very carefully the original reports by the discoverer, which
often rule out these kinds of skeptical objections. For me, scientifically,

(28:28):
it's not enough to simply give a possibility how something
can be wrong, I think to proceed in a scientific
way you have to demonstrate that the explanation you're offering
does actually apply in this case, this particular case that

(28:52):
we're talking about. You have to show that artifacts or
bones like the ones found in the alleged four or
five million year old layer of rock actually that a
fisser actually does exist and there are bones on the

(29:15):
surface that could have slipped down into those levels. Otherwise
it's just speculation. I remember once I was talking giving
a lecture at a university in Denmark and there was
an archaeologist in the audience, and he asked me after

(29:40):
hearings about some of these discoveries of archaeological evidence showing
humans like us existed millions of years ago. He just
came out with this standard list of possible ways in
which it could be mistake. Possibly there was a fissure,

(30:03):
Possibly there was an Earth movement, Possibly there was a hoax.
Possibly there was a mistake and the discoverers observations. But
my reply to that was, well, it's possible that you
could be a holographic projection from Mars. You know. It's

(30:28):
like I mean, if you want to talk about possibilities,
possibilities are endless. There was.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
There was one discovery I think they found piece of
a skull camp and then a few feet from it
they found a human uh, I think it was leg
bone and they yes, they wanted to automatically assume that
was a missing link.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, that was a key discovery in the history of archaeology.
You're talking there about the discovery that was made in Java,
thinking around eighteen ninety one ninety two. Right around that time,
there was a researcher from Holland, the Netherlands. So this

(31:19):
Dutch researcher, Eugene Dubois, came to Indonesia, which was a
Dutch colony at the time, around eighteen nineties, and he
was interested in this topic of human evolution. He was

(31:40):
interested specifically in finding a missing link. And that hunt
for the missing link began shortly after Charles Darwin published
his book The Origin of Species, his theory of evolution,

(32:02):
and right after that scientists began looking for what they
called the missing link, the creature, some creature intermediate between
the forms of the ancient apes that lived many many
millions of years ago and anatomically modern humans. If the

(32:28):
theory of evolution was correct, there should be some links
missing link between the ancient apes and the modern humans.
So they started looking all over the place for such evidence,
and they were finding evidence. But it wasn't for a

(32:50):
missing link. They were finding evidence that humans like us
existed millions of years ago, and these reports were published
in the mainstream scientific literature. Scientists talked about these discoveries

(33:10):
at their professional gatherings, and it was okay, even if
they were supporters of the theory of evolution. It was
all right to talk about those things because there was
no fixed timeline when exactly modern humans first appeared, so

(33:37):
there wasn't any mainstream doctrine to contradict, so they were
fairly open about it. But this Java Man discovery, which
came several decades later, put a benchmark on the timeline

(34:06):
Java Man, which, as you correctly pointed out, was really
just two bones that were found in an excavation containing
many fossil animal bones. These the skull cap, which was

(34:27):
ape like in the sense that it had huge brow
ridges over the eye sockets, and the human like femur
or thigh bone. That those two discoveries were found about
fifty feet apart. In other words, there wasn't any real

(34:49):
reason to put them together. Yet from this discovery they
came up with all these pictures and paintings of an
ape man they called pithecanthropists erectus at the time. Now
it's considered a variety of Homo erectus. But now they

(35:15):
had their timeline. The missing link was dated as being
about eight hundred thousand years old, so that meant anything
human had to come after that, perhaps much after that,
but it had to be after the age of the

(35:37):
Java Man discovery. So then it became a problem, what
are we going to do with all this evidence that
accumulated during the eighteen eighties, eighteen seventies, eighteen sixties showing
that humans like us existed many millions of years ago,

(36:00):
on the basis of accepting the pithecanthropist erectus discoveries, the
Java Man discoveries, which were really just two bones that
really didn't appear to belong to each other at all.
After they did that, and that became set as a

(36:20):
benchmark on the timeline, than anything human that appeared before
that time had to be cast into oblivion. And there's
one very good example of that that I document in

(36:42):
Forbidden Archaeology, that is the California gold Mine discoveries that
were made during the mid and late nineteenth century in California,
and the gold mining red in central California and the

(37:02):
Sierra Nevada Mountains, and there miners dug tunnels into the
sides of the mountains to get the gold, and deep
inside these tunnels, in the solid rock, they found human bones,
human artifacts like obsidian spear points, stone mortars, and pestles.

(37:27):
And these came to the attention of doctor J. D. Whitney,
who was the chief government and geologist of California, and
he published a massive report about them that was published
by Harvard University in the year eighteen eighty. And we

(37:51):
don't hear anything about these discoveries today because they were
later rejected by prominent scientists at the Smithsonian Institution, a scientist,
a physical anthropologist named William Holmes. He rejected them simply

(38:17):
because they contradicted the JavaMan discovery. The layers of rock
in which the California gold mine discoveries were made are
about forty or fifty million years old, and they're solidly
embedded in those deposits. So JavaMan was less than a

(38:44):
million years old, so Holmes. Doctor Holmes said of doctor
Whitney's work if doctor Whitney had known about these discoveries,
if he had known about the theory of evolution as
we understand it in light of these Joba Man discoveries,

(39:07):
he wouldn't have published that book. In other words, if
the evidence contradicted the dominant theory, then it had to
be cast aside, and that's what happened. So that was
a very influential report, the one that you mentioned.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, I've heard you talk before about the cosmic hierarchy.
What is that about?

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Well, that is something that grows out of my work
and Forbidden Archaeology, in which I present archaeological evidence stones, bones,
and footprints, you know, human bones, human footprints, human artifacts
that go much for they're back in time than the

(40:02):
few hundred thousand years that most scientists now accept for
a human presence on this planet. You know. That's so
when people read Forbid in Archaeology, they said, if you've
got all this evidence that contradicts the Darwinian theory of evolution,

(40:28):
what are you going to put in its place? And
I save that for another book that I wrote because
I wanted people to be free to make up their
own minds about this. You know, I didn't want to
impose my alternative view on them. I wanted them to

(40:49):
think about it themselves and come up with their own conclusions.
One solution is that some people gave was to have
a theory of evolution where the humans evolved much earlier
than they did today, and then scientists consider them to

(41:11):
have evolved today. And that's one approach. Another approach that
some people took is, well, maybe these artifacts and bones
and footprints were left by time travelers. And another proposal
was maybe extraterrestrials or responsible for that evidence, and they

(41:33):
came and visited the earth. And then there's my explanation,
which involves accepting that humans were present in those very
distant times. But in my book Human Devolution, I propose
that before we even asked the question where did human

(41:56):
beings come from? We should, first of all that the
question what is a human being? And we should know
what it is we're trying to explain. And today the
dominant consensus view is that we're machines made of molecules
and that's all there is to it. And as far

(42:19):
as consciousness goes, well, that's a temporary byproduct of bioelectrical
activity in the brain and at the time of death,
when the chemicals in the brain become disorganized, there's no
more consciousness. It simply evaporates, and that's all there is

(42:45):
to it. But I take a different approach, and that
involves positing that in addition to the physical elements that
are listed in the periodic table, there are a subtle

(43:08):
mind element and an element of pure consciousness that make
up a human being. Sometimes people say matter, mind and consciousness,
or spirit if they prefer that word. So I propose
that there are levels of the cosmos inhabited by different

(43:37):
types of beings that concentrate on one of these elements,
gross matter, the subtle mental energies, or the pure conscious self.
There are regions of the cosmos dominated by ordinary matter,

(43:58):
and that's where we find ourselves now. It's inhabited by
beings adapted to the conditions there. We have gross physical
bodies that allow us to function in the world of matter,
but beyond that, there's a level of the subtle mental

(44:21):
and intellectual energies inhabited by beings adapted to the conditions there.
And down through history people have had different names for
these beings. They've called them angels, davas, gods, gene manitou.

(44:45):
There are different names and different cultures for the beings
that inhabit that subtle material realm, and beyond that is
the level of pure consciousness. And in that level of
pure consciousness, the beings are adapted to the conditions there

(45:07):
which are different than the conditions on the level of
the mental energies and the gross physical energies. Their consciousness
exists in a timeless dimension, and it exists in harmony

(45:30):
with the source of all conscious beings. So that is
what I call the cosmic hierarchy. And if you examine
the cosmologies of different civilizations and cultures down through the
world's history, you'll see that pretty much all of them

(45:53):
have a similar concept that human beings on this level
of reality are part of a whole cosmic hierarchy of beings.
And my book Human Devolution, a Vedic alternative to Darwin's Theory,

(46:13):
I have collected a study, my study of forty about
forty different cultures what their cosmologies are like, and they
all have pretty much all have this cosmic hierarchy as
a feature of it.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I notice that in cultures like Buddhism and of course Christianity,
and some other religions. They all have seem to have
the same thing or the same type of idea.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Yeah, and that's kind of unusual because many of these
cultures were geographically separated from each other, and they also
were separated by time in many cases. Yet they're still

(47:15):
reporting the same basic framework in their cosmologies. And I
think that's because it may there may have been contacts
among them. But it's also possible that cultures that weren't
in contact with each other had the same types of

(47:38):
views because they were each looking at the same existing
phenomenon from different points of view. Like if you have
a mountain, somebody may be looking at it from the
west side, somebody from the east, somebody from the north,
somebody from the south. From their descriptions, it's going to

(48:02):
be obvious that they're talking about the same thing, but
there's also going to be some differences because of the
different points of view that they're looking at the same
object from.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yes, sir, we're coming up close to the top of
the hour. We go ahead and take a break. Care
We'll be back in about three minutes.

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I'm Joshua Stark.

Speaker 6 (51:01):
Bob Lazar's amazing experiences head to the big screen in
S four, The Bob Lazar Story. This film explores Bob's
story in a way never before seen. Part documentary, part recreation,
with new material and interviews with Lazar himself.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Hi, I'm Bob Lazar.

Speaker 7 (51:22):
In December of nineteen eighty eight, I was hired as
a senior staff physicist by a US defense contractor called
EGNG Special Projects. I was told that I would be
working on an advanced propulsion system out in a remote
area of the Nevada Test Site No.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
AS Area fifty one.

Speaker 7 (51:43):
Wanting to protect myself, I decided to go public and
reveal the Secrets of S four. Well, there's actually nine
flying saucers, flying discs that are out there of extraterrestrial origin.

Speaker 8 (51:57):
He is not your typical, straight laced science guy. If
you wanted to hire a guy who could think out
of the box and help solve problems, Bob was probably
the best person in the country at the time.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
He's perfect for it.

Speaker 8 (52:13):
People are catching on that what Bob said is true.

Speaker 9 (52:16):
Physical evidence now exists which proves that there is life elsewhere,
and at least one form of that life has been here.
No one has ever been able to show exactly what
I saw with my own eyes until now.

Speaker 7 (52:30):
The information we're getting now is going to come to
an end.

Speaker 6 (52:33):
Produce my Project Gravitar S four The Bob Lazaar Story
releases on various streaming platforms this summer. Code to Projectgravitar
dot com for more details, and check our show notes
for the YouTube trailer link. A defunct Soviet spacecraft is
Cosmos four eighty two, is expected to re enter Earth's

(52:53):
atmosphere around May tenth, about fifty three years in orbit.
Originally launched in nineteen seventy two, is part of the
Venera program to explore Venus a launch malfunction left it
in low Earth orbit. Now, its descent module, weighing approximately
one thousand, ninety one pounds or four hundred and ninety

(53:15):
five kilograms, is poised to re enter and may survive
the fiery plunge due to robust design intended for Venus's
harsh conditions. The re entry zone spans between fifty two
degrees north and fifty two degrees south latitude, covering much
of the globe except Antarctica. While the majority of Earth's

(53:37):
surface is ocean, there's a small chance the spacecraft could
land in a populated area. Experts emphasize that the overall
risk remains minimal. This is Dark Matter News.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
All right.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
This is Carl Richardson with Midnight Frequency Radio and welcome back.
I'm new to this shows deal and I'm dealing with
media files. There were some artifacts found in a cave.
There were little hematite spheres. Could you tell us about
where they think they came from or how they formed?

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Well, I believe you're talking about the rounds spear sphere
like objects that come from South Africa, from the western
Transvaal region and a place called Auto Stall. There's a
mine and these objects originally came to my attention through

(54:54):
a report on what's called the tabloid newspaper, which is
not considered to be a highly reputable source. But these
objects were described as being shaped like little balls, like
a golf ball or something a marble, some object of

(55:18):
that shape about that size of a large marble. They
the interesting feature was the parallel grooves that go around
the center of each one, kind of like they were
engraves somehow. So I got in touch with the curator

(55:47):
of the museum where they were being kept in Clerkstorp,
South Africa, and he provided whatever scientific information he could.
First of all, he verified to me that the objects
are there, they do exist, and on the basis of

(56:11):
information that he provided, we included the case of these
artifacts and the book Forbidden Archaeology, but we put it
in a special appendix with several other cases of the
same nature. Most of the evidence documented in Forbidden Archaeology

(56:41):
comes from scientific sources. As I say, this one did
not initially come to me from a scientific source. If
all I had was the tabloid newspaper reference, we might
not have included it at all. But since we did

(57:02):
have testimony and some documentation from the museum director at
the Clerkstort Museum of Natural History. We did include them,
as I said, in an appendix for non scientifically reported evidence. Now,

(57:26):
I think that's justifiable because if evidence for extreme human
antiquity does exist in the layers of the earth, then
we should expect that people other than professional scientists might
encounter it. And although the reports of the scientists might

(57:50):
make their way into the scientific literature, you know, the
peer reviewed scientific journals and things of that sort, the
reports of these other people, more ordinary people might not
make their way into the scientific literature, but we should
expect it might make their way to public notice through

(58:15):
newspapers or these days podcasts. So that is basically why
we included them in a special appendix of Forbidden Archaeology. Now,
what happened subsequently was that this producer of The Mysterious

(58:43):
Origins of Man, the documentary that aired on NBC to
much protests from the scientific establishment, he wanted to include
one of these spheres, Engrave Spheres from the South African

(59:06):
Mind in this documentary. So he proposed that to NBC
and they told him, well, we won't do that unless
you submit these things to an independent company of metallurgists
to evaluate, so that was done. They were submitted to

(59:30):
the metallurgical company and they determined that they were made
of hematite, which is a kind of iron ore. It's
also considered to be a type of jewelry semi precious stone,
and they were shown on the NBC documentary. Position has

(01:00:00):
always been that I'm prepared to accept it if somebody
comes up with a convincing naturalistic proposal of how those
objects could have formed naturally. But in the absence of that,
I haven't gotten any such explanation. So in the absence

(01:00:23):
of that, I think I'm going to remain open to
the possibility that these objects show that some sort of
intelligent being manufactured them in during the time of the
age of the formation of which they were found, which
is two point eight billion, not million, but billion with

(01:00:47):
a b years old. So I'm still waiting for the account.
After the documentary was shown on NBC, there were geologists

(01:01:08):
on an Internet discussion group that I was in dialogue with.
One of the geological geologists said, well, these things are
so common, you know that they're found all over the world.
I was asking the question, where else in the world

(01:01:29):
has anything like this been found, and the geologists replied, well,
they're so common, nobody's ever bothered to even take a
picture of them. So that's the kind of response that
I was getting, very substantive. So yeah, so they are

(01:01:54):
interesting objects. They were also reported to have some kind
of paranormal aspect to them, in the sense that there
were reports that the objects in the museum would spontaneously
rotate in their cases. I don't have any testimony regarding

(01:02:23):
that other than the tabloid newspaper report. But just because
something is printed in a tabloid doesn't mean it doesn't
exist or didn't happen. It just may not have been
documented in the best possible way. So that's another thing.

(01:02:45):
Another thing is is that after the NBC documentary was aired,
a television producer from the Netherlands got in touch with
me and wanted to know if he could get some
if he could take some film of the objects. So

(01:03:09):
I put him in touch with the director of the
Museum of Natural History and Clericstort, South Africa, where a
very good specimen had been capped, and the director of
the museum replied to the Dutch producer by email or

(01:03:34):
a letter that unfortunately the object had been stolen by
a person he characterized as a white witch. Okay, so

(01:03:56):
they're interesting the objects.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Do you feel that ancient humans may have had knowledge
that we've lost.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Well, I think that's definitely a possibility. You know, if
you look at even some of the more I mean
the more recent examples in terms of how old they are,

(01:04:26):
you like, the Pyramids are maybe a few thousand years old,
or the places like that. There are pretty amazing technological
feats that we don't seem to be able to duplicate.
I mean, the Great Pyramid and the Giza Plateau is

(01:04:51):
made up of millions of blocks, very heavy blocks of
limestone that have had to have been transported vast distances,
and how they were able to do that is still
a matter of controversy. So I think, yes, it is

(01:05:12):
possible that ancient civilizations had greater knowledge than we're able
to manifest today. And yeah, there are two sources of
information about such things. One is the record of the rocks.

(01:05:32):
What we can actually find in terms of human remains
and technological remains that have been preserved in the layers
of the earth. Unfortunately, most of our high tech stuff
doesn't survive very long in the geological record, scientists studied

(01:06:00):
this issue, especially those that who are involved in climate
change and things like that, and they would say, our
earth has been polluted by our industrial technological civilization, you
know they would, and sometimes they wonder, well, what would

(01:06:23):
happen if human beings disappeared from the Earth today? How
long would it take the Earth to recover its natural state?
And what would happen to all the remains of our
big cities, our technology, What would happen to it? Now,

(01:06:47):
scientists have studied this in detail, and they've come out
with documentaries on National geographic and other streaming services like
the one I saw a few years ago. World without us,

(01:07:08):
and scientists have determined that most of our remains of
our industrial technological civilization would disappear in relatively short periods
of time of a few thousand years or few tens

(01:07:31):
of thousands of years. Most of the metals will oxidize,
and plastics will dissolve and things like that, and after
ten or twenty thousand years, there wouldn't be anything left.

(01:07:51):
All the skyscrapers would have collapsed, and the iron girder
will have corroded. And yeah, I was once on an
Internet discussion group with scientists who were talking about this question,

(01:08:14):
and they said, what if an advanced civilization had existed
on Earth and say, millions of years ago, and what
signs of it would we see today? And they concluded
not very much. You wouldn't see very much. At most,

(01:08:37):
you might see a thin layer of broken rubble, broken
piece of glass, and maybe a little concrete and something,
and that's all that would be left. And even more recently,
in just a couple of years ago, there were some

(01:08:59):
astro physicists were interested in climate change and they were
also wondering, and this was Adam Frank and Gavin Smith,
and they they proposed what they called the Silurian hypothesis

(01:09:21):
that there was a human civilization that existed during or
a humanoid civilization that existed on this planet hundreds of
millions of years ago, before the time of the dinosaurs
even and they proposed that and this was based on

(01:09:48):
the One of the scientists involved was from England. Originally
he's in the United States now, but he had seen
a BBC science fiction series called Doctor a Doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
Who Yeah, Doctor Who Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
In one of the early episodes of that series, it
was about a group of reptilian humanoid creatures who had
a civilization, a technological civilization during the Silurian period, and
they had gone into a state of hibernation in some

(01:10:37):
caves deep below the surface of the earth. And then
in recent times a science research institute directly above them
had begun activities that disturbed them and woke them up

(01:10:59):
from their time. They had been in suspended animation since
the Silurian period, hundreds of millions of years ago. So
doctor Who had to deal with them. So that's why
they called their hypothesis of an ancient technological civilization that

(01:11:23):
existed on Earth hundreds of millions of years ago during
the Silurian period the Silurian hypothesis. So, and they dealt
with the same kinds of questions that I had to
deal with in my book Forbidden Archaeology. In other words,

(01:11:48):
they said that the remains of that technological civilization wouldn't
have survived for very long, and that all we might
expect to find from it today would be if we
did some analysis of the sediments from the sites, they

(01:12:15):
would show the existence of compounds chemical compounds that don't
occur naturally, you know, there would and there might be
some radioactive evidence from a nuclear war that had taken
place in those very ancient times. That's the sort of

(01:12:39):
thing we might expect to find, so it's it's a
very interesting topic. Say if fifty million years ago, during
the time of the California gold mine discoveries, people had

(01:13:00):
computers and mobile phones and things like that, and then
also some people were making use of stone tools and weapons.
The computer and the cell phone wouldn't last very long
in the geological record. They'd be gone after some time,

(01:13:25):
but the stone tools will survive because they're not as
subject to destruction by different different forces of nature that operate.
So it's an interesting topic. So that's one source of

(01:13:50):
possibly getting knowledge about advanced civilizations that existed in the past,
the distant past. Another source of knowledge is the records
that were left by such ancient civilizations, like in the

(01:14:11):
Vedic tradition of India, there's a set of works called
the Piranhas or the histories, and they tell of these
ancient civilizations that existed in different cycles of time, going
very far back millions of years, and the descriptions that

(01:14:36):
have come down tell of flying ships, spaceships called vimano's
that had very interesting features that are just now being
duplicated again by modern or military science. For example, it

(01:15:03):
was described how these like one of these vimanas was
able to be moved and directed and flown simply by
mental intention. In other words, the person who was riding
in the vimana could simply think about turning in this

(01:15:28):
direction or that direction, or going this distance in that distance,
simply by mental intention. And this is a technology that
the militaries of the world are attempting to duplicate because

(01:15:49):
modern jet aircraft, fighter aircraft in particular, travel at such
speeds that that you know, physically, you know, if you're
just flying using the normal handed foot controls, you can

(01:16:13):
never keep up with you know, so there has to
be some and of course now they have artificial intelligence.
But another thing they're working on is mental control of
aircraft and things like that. Another feature of these amountas,

(01:16:36):
because there was I read one description of one that
flight pattern was like described as being like that of
a butterfly. They can see bees, they generally fly in
a straight line. A butterfly is kind of going up
and down and fluttering here and there. And this is

(01:16:59):
something that modern observers have noticed about UAPs as they
now call UFOs an identified aerial phenomenon. One thing that
military pilots report, and I've heard similar reports from commercial

(01:17:20):
airline pilots, is that an object might be approaching them,
closing at a very rapid rate of speed, and then
suddenly go up straight up make a ninety degree turn,
something that's really not possible with normal aerodynamic features of aircraft.

(01:17:48):
So the flight patterns of these objects is the same
that it's the same as modern reports of UFOs. Another
feature of these ancient flying craft were that they apparently

(01:18:12):
had some kind of technology that would allow duplicate images
of these demanas to confuse defenders of the place that
may be attacked by them. In other words, the defenders

(01:18:37):
couldn't be sure what was the real vermona and what
was a decoy image. In modern military technology, this feature
has been incorporated into ballistic missile warheads that will be

(01:19:03):
able to produce decoy images that would prevent or complicate
things for a defender trying to shoot it down. So
you find that Another interesting thing I found in the
descriptions of these vimanas is that sometimes they were like

(01:19:29):
for military purposes, sometimes they were like for pleasure travel.
You know, like you know, we've heard recently about these
super luxurious seven forty sevens that Qatar builds and gives
to different people. They had craft like that, and I

(01:19:56):
was reading one description where they had robot birds that
were so realistic that real birds would come up to
them and try to interact with them. So that's I

(01:20:17):
saw an interesting report a couple of years ago about
a drone that was used by was being developed for
the United States Army to use for intelligence purposes. And
this drone was built in such a way that it

(01:20:42):
resembled a bird, and the report I read about it
said that this bird drone was so effectively birdlike that
hawks and eagles would attack it thinking it was another bird,
you know, that they could prey upon eating. And then

(01:21:08):
another feature of these vimonas was they apparently had some
holographic projection capabilities that allowed them to create holographic forms
of people soldiers, for example, that could be used to
deceive defenders. I think from what I've seen these some

(01:21:35):
of these ancient civilizations did have abilities that surpass our
own or that are being matched only recently. So another well, anyways,
I could go on endlessly about the vimonos.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
That's as algegy.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
But there was an There was another feature from these
Piranhas that was descriptions of weapons that resemble modern nuclear weapons.
There was one weapon called a Bramastra, the descriptions of

(01:22:25):
which tend to resemble modern nuclear weapons. It's described that
when they were used, it was as if you had
ten thousand suns, the energy of ten thousand sons exploding
from a single location. And I found it interesting that

(01:22:50):
doctor Robert Oppenheimer, the physicist who was in charge of
the American program to build a new clear weapon during
World War Two, when in addition to being in addition
to being a great physicist, Oppenheimer was also a student

(01:23:15):
of Sanskrit, the language of the Piranhas, and the Mahabarata,
the Bagavad Gita. And when the first atomic bomb was
tested at Alamogordo in New Mexico, and I think it

(01:23:36):
was the spring of nineteen forty five, he was present
at a bunker there, and when the atomic bomb went off,
he began reciting versus from the Bagavad Gita, one of

(01:23:57):
these ancient texts that described the immense power behind such weapons.
And a reporter asked Oppenheimer what it was what it
felt like to be present at that test in Alamogordo,

(01:24:22):
which the reporter characterized as the first example of the
use for the explosion of such a weapon, and Robert
Oppenheimer kind of corrected him. He said, the first and
modern times, indicating he was aware of the existence of

(01:24:45):
similar types of weapons in ancient times.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
Are you multi lingual and able to read other languages?

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
I have a reading knowledge of many language, which is
I'm not very good at speaking speaking them. Whenever I
try to speak a language that I might know a
few words of and conversational style, the person usually knows

(01:25:17):
English better than I know their language. But when I
was in high school in Germany, I took several years
of German language, so that gives me. That gave me
a reading knowledge. I could read archaeological reports in German

(01:25:40):
and other languages from the Germanic family of languages. When
I was in the university, I was preparing for a
career and one of the intelligence services. I studied Russian
and I took intensive verses and the Russian language, so

(01:26:04):
I can read archaeological reports in Russian and different Slavic
languages that are similar, very similar to Russian, like Czech
and Bulgarian and others. So I grew up in an

(01:26:29):
Italian American family and at one of the basis I
was our family was stationed at was in Texas. So
I learned a couple of years of Spanish, and that
gave me access to those experiences, gave me access to

(01:26:54):
the Romance languages, French, Italians. So I can read archaeological
reports and those languages. And so yes, I did have

(01:27:15):
the ability to read archaeological reports and many different languages.
I'm not claiming to be a fluent speaker or writer
of such languages, but I can read archaeological reports.

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
Well, I commend you for that, because I haven't even
mastered the English language yet.

Speaker 2 (01:27:38):
So well, I'm still working on it as well.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
There have been archaeological finds like wooly mammos that appeared
to have been frozen quickly and even their last meal
and their stomach was, you know, still like it had
just been eaten. What are the thoughts on the causes
of that?

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
Well, I think there have been periodic catastrophes that have
influenced the course of life on this planet. And this
again is something that you find in many of the
ancient Wissid traditions, whether it's the biblical flood of Noah

(01:28:21):
or there are different of the Middle Eastern civilizations like
the Babylonians and the Samerians who have similar accounts. Very
widespread worldwide phenomenon of the idea of periodic catastrophes, which

(01:28:42):
may involve volcanism other types of climate related things. So
it depends spun your source of knowledge. I got from

(01:29:06):
my study of the Vedic literature this idea that there
are periodic catastrophes involving floods and other celestial phenomenon like
the rays of the sun becoming so hot that it

(01:29:27):
burns all life off the surface of the Earth. Things
like that happen to me. It's very interesting that the
Vedic cosmology posits that the basic unit of cosmic time

(01:29:53):
is called the day of Brahma. It lasts four point
three two million years, and it's followed by a night
of Brama that lasts the same amount of time, and
then there's another day, another night. The cycle goes on

(01:30:14):
practically endlessly, and during the days, life, including human life,
is manifest throughout the cosmos, not just on Earth, and
during the nights it's dormant. And if you take seventy

(01:30:38):
two of those cycles, that constitutes one momentar period. And
if and each day of Brama is composed of fourteen
of those periods. So according to the Vedic cosmological calendar,

(01:31:04):
we're now in the seventh of the fourteen monventar periods
of the current Kalpa or day of Brahma, and that
means there have been six monventar periods before us, each
one lasting about three hundred million years. Roughly Between each monventar,

(01:31:30):
it said there was a devastation that wiped out life
on Earth. Now, if I look at modern geology and palaeontology,
they say that in the past two billion years, and
that's also the time period involved in in the Vedic cosmology,

(01:31:57):
that the first monventare of the fourteen that make up
the current day of Brava. The first one occurred about
two billion years ago. So modern geology and paralaeontology say
that there have been six major extinction events based at

(01:32:19):
intervals of several hundred million years between about two billion
years ago in the present and the ancient Vadan cosmology
says that over the past two billion years or so,
there have been six Moventare devastations, so I kind of

(01:32:44):
think there's a rough parallel there. I find. Maybe it's
just a coincidence, but to me it seems suggestive of
this concept of periodic devastations life on Earth. Now, according
to the Vedic cosmology, there are higher levels of reality,

(01:33:13):
there are places there that aren't affected by that series
of devastations, and on that level there are the resources
to repopulate the Earth with different species, including the human species.

(01:33:35):
So that would mean that it's something like having your files,
your photos, your music, everything that you keep on a
device on the cloud also backed up so that if

(01:33:56):
your device is lost, destroyed or whatever, you can get
a new device and download everything you need to keep
up with your work, or maybe you just go up
to the cloud stay there. But I think the cosmos

(01:34:19):
is set up in a similar way that there are
periodic devastations that wipe out most life on Earth, and
yet there are the resources at higher levels of reality
to repopulate the Earth after those devastations.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
Is there any proof of rapid Earth crust movements, like
say the crust would move quickly and say Australia would
end up where Antarctica is now. Is there any proof
of any disasters like that?

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
Well, I've heard of the crystal displacement theory. I think
it was. It was that put forth by Velakovsky.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
It was talked about on the Mysterious Origins of Man
toward the end.

Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, one of the researchers may have
concentrated on that. I'm I'm not sure. I haven't looked
deeply into that topic myself. I know, according to modern

(01:35:42):
plate tectonics, the different continental plates are of shifting and
moving around, but I don't know about the whole crust,
you know, kind of like I think the usual example
is given that if a orange becomes detached from its skin,

(01:36:04):
you can turn the skin around to a different position.

Speaker 1 (01:36:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
I really haven't looked into that question and depth. Okay,
I know about it, but it's not something I can
really answer, so I just have to say sometimes I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:36:28):
It was a finger found, part of a finger found
in an excavated area that appeared to be human human
that was quite old. Do you recall that?

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
Oh? Yes, I think you're referring to the Old Age
eighty six discovery. It olduvay gorge. In twenty sixteen, a
team of our Qieologist anthropologists were excavating there and they

(01:37:06):
found a finger bone. Actually it's the proximal or the
like your little fingers, made up of three bones, yes
you know, so the one at the bottom nearest the palm,
that's the proximal failanx and that is the bone they found.

(01:37:31):
And this may seem like a relatively minor thing at
first glance, but there's an interesting principle involved. And this
gets back to something we were talking about at the
very beginning of this broadcast, which was the influence of

(01:37:53):
the Java Man discovery because it put a fixed timeline
ker on the timeline for the existence of a missing
link of being intermediate between ancient apes and modern humans
and the evolutionary sequence. So it was stated as being

(01:38:17):
about eight hundred thousand years old, so anything human had
to come after that. Because Java Man that the Capanthropus
erectus was only eight hundred thousand years old, anything human
had to come after that. So in this particular discovery

(01:38:40):
that we're talking about now, I wanted to demonstrate how
the knowledge filtering process, based on the conception that human
beings could not have existed in the very very far
distant past still influences how archaeologists look at evidence. So

(01:39:03):
these archaeologists found this fingerbone, and they did numerous measurements
of it, you know, they take forty or fifty different measurements,
and then they compared it using a multivariate statistical analysis approach.

(01:39:28):
They compared the finger bone that they found at Ulduvai
Gorge with the same fingerbone and different species of apes
and monkeys and chimpanzees, gorillas and so on. They compared
it with the same finger bone found in different hominin

(01:39:52):
species like Australopithecus al mohabilis. And they also compare hear
it with the same fingerbone and a population of anatomically
modern humans, and they found that it fits squarely in

(01:40:13):
the anatomically modern human group. So what did they do?
They said, quoting pretty directly from their scientific report which
was published in Nature Communications, a top flight scientific journal,

(01:40:36):
that the form affinities of eighty six are most like
anatomically modern humans. But we can't call it holmost sapiens
because of its geological age, which in this case was

(01:40:59):
one point eight million years old. So here we have
an example of exactly what I was talking about, because
the dominant consensus is that human beings came into existence
about three hundred thousand years ago. Something one point eight

(01:41:25):
million years old couldn't possibly be human. So who was
around during that time, say Homo erectus. So they know
they can be directly looking at evidence for extreme human antiquity,

(01:41:48):
but they can't see it from what it is because
of their commitment to a certain paradigm. So sometimes people
ask me, you know, you gave this example from the
nineteenth century. You know, but what did they know back then?

(01:42:10):
Today we know a lot more, and you know, but
the same types of theoretical preconceptions are still governing how
scientists look at different categories of evidence that come to
their attention. This was a very good recent example I

(01:42:36):
think of how that knowledge filtering process operates.

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
Okay, a lot of this evidence points to humans being
around when the dinosaurs were still alive? Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (01:42:53):
Even before the time of the dinosaurs? You know, there
was an example from this is from the nineteenth century.
Some scientists in Europe were reporting finding animal bones with

(01:43:15):
butchering marks on them, indicated they had been hunted and
butchered by humans that were twenty million years old, and
there was an English scientist, Te McKinney Hughes, who just

(01:43:35):
couldn't accept that. So the evidence that he gave that
in his mind disputed or disproved evidence that humans were
cutting bone maybe twenty million years ago, was that he

(01:43:56):
had a dinosaur bone that had cut marks on it,
and he said that is he took it as proof
that the cut marks on the twenty million year old
bone couldn't possibly have made by humans unless you want

(01:44:20):
to say humans existed at the same time as the dinosaurs,
which for him was totally absurd. But really his evidence shows,
he said, I would be prepared to accept if this
bone had been found in a cave in Europe about

(01:44:41):
twenty thousand years old, along with cut animal bones, then
I would be prepared to accept this as the work
of humans. The absence of that, he said, this is

(01:45:03):
a dinosaur bone, it's got cut marks on it. It
proves that the twenty million year old specimen is wrong.
I have to disagree with him. I think what he
actually does in his own words is to show that

(01:45:26):
it's only the age that he couldn't accept. Otherwise, if
it had been given an age of twenty thousand years
then he'd have no problem accepting it was the work
of humans.

Speaker 1 (01:45:41):
Yeah, I'm going to ask you an alf the Wall question,
but do you believe that Atlantis was a real or
just a myth?

Speaker 2 (01:45:49):
Well, you know, Atlantis is a complicated topic. On the
general principle that in ancient times there was some dance
city or civilization that was covered by the oceans, I
think that is definitely possible. Today in modern archaeology, marine

(01:46:18):
archaeology is becoming more and more prominent because scientists understand
that before twenty thousand and thirty thousand years ago, a
lot of the water that's now in the oceans was

(01:46:40):
on land in the form of glaciers that came down
to almost where you are in Arkansas, and in Europe
that covered most of western Europe. So it all that

(01:47:01):
ice has melted, the sea levels have come up, which
means that vast areas of land that were once exposed
and populated are now under the ocean. So marine archaeology

(01:47:21):
has become important. Archaeologists have made many discoveries of remains
of Neolithic and Paleolithic cultures underwater. So this idea that
populated areas of the world had become covered by water,

(01:47:46):
by floods or whatever, is very prominent. So in principle,
I'm not opposed to their having been some civilization in
some part of the world that went underwater and was destroyed,

(01:48:13):
and that any survivors of that catastrophe may have gone
to other parts of the world that weren't subjected to it.
So I don't and principle, have any problem with the

(01:48:34):
idea of that. If you look into the Atlantis question,
you see there many researchers who are proposing different areas
that they think represented the Atlantis that was proposed by

(01:48:55):
Plato and his book books. That's where the idea, that's
how the idea entered our present discourse. That's through the
works of Plato. And he said this Atlantis, he gave

(01:49:17):
some descriptions of it, and where it was located. He said,
beyond the Pillars of Hercules. So in the Mediterranean world,
the Pillars of Hercules were considered to be Gibraltar and
the other side of the Strait, and so in other words,

(01:49:41):
it was somewhere in the Atlantic, according to many researchers.
But every researcher looks these things in a different way.
So you have some proposing Atlantis was an island in
the Mediterranean, some are posing it was near Briminy, some

(01:50:03):
are proposing Indonesia, some are proposing Bolivia. So I don't
really know enough to say which of them is right. Yes,
the general principle is something that I accept.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
Here's another wild question. Is there any archaeological evidence of Bigfoot?

Speaker 2 (01:50:28):
Well, that is an interesting question. I consider that question
in a chapter of my book Forbidden Archaeology called Evidence
for Living eight Men. And you know, this idea of

(01:50:49):
a missing link, creature intermediate between ancient apes and modern
humans has been around for a long time. It didn't
come up about just since the time of Darwin. The
ancient Sanskrit writings of India speak of a race of

(01:51:10):
beings called the Waneras or the forest dwellers, and they
had a ape like bodies, but a simple level of
human like culture. In other words, for weapons, they might

(01:51:31):
use stones that they pick up from the ground or branches,
and they had the ability to speak and communicate with humans.
So this idea of some sort of intermediate being between

(01:51:51):
apes and humans is something that's been present for a
long time. As far as the modern concept that bigfoots
sasquatch is concerned. I think there is credible evidence reported

(01:52:12):
by scientists that such creatures do exist, and the evidence
largely takes the form of footprint evidence. There have been
detailed studies done showing that these are real footprints. They're

(01:52:32):
not just something that somebody had made some fake foot
as a stamp and kind of stamped it into the ground.
There's been substantial evidence. There's substantial evidence that shows the
real footprints. And another category of evidence is some hares

(01:53:00):
have been discovered that cannot be attributed to any known animal,
and there are various sighting reports as well, and in
more recent times, there have been attributed to these creatures

(01:53:24):
that exist in all parts of the world. You know,
there are the almost creatures of Central Asia and the
Himalayan region. There are other types of creatures like that
that have been observed in other parts of the world.

(01:53:46):
So there is a body of scientific evidence that supports
their existence. But they also according to more modern research.
For more recent research, there's also a paranormal element to them.

(01:54:07):
That they appear to be able to communicate telepathically and
that they are able to transport themselves from place to
place by some paranormal method. So this kind of matches

(01:54:28):
up with the descriptions of the ganreas from the ancient
Indian text like the Ramayan. And they also had mystic
powers paranormal powers, so that may be one reason why

(01:54:50):
no one has been able to capture one put it
in a zoo for example.

Speaker 1 (01:54:56):
Yeah, I'm doubtful myself. We're supposed to have one my
part of the state of Arkansas, but I've never seen it.
But I excuse me, I fish in that area, so
I guess if I see it, I'll let you know
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
I've never seen one myself, but I do take seriously
the scientists who have studied the evidence that it's available
to the All.

Speaker 1 (01:55:26):
Right, so we'll back at the top of the hour again.
I guess we'll take another break, probably be back in
about three to four minutes. Okay, thank you, sir.

Speaker 5 (01:55:58):
Time dream and this right got the road, so I
road made my getaway.

Speaker 1 (01:56:09):
All right, we'll back with mister Kremo. And how are
you heading out? Mister Cremo. You're good for another hour?

Speaker 2 (01:56:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:56:21):
All right? Are there any topics that you wanted to
bring up on this show that that are interesting?

Speaker 2 (01:56:28):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:56:29):
Well, I didn't mean to put you on something. Yeah,
I didn't intend to put you on the spot. I've
asked most of the questions that I had set aside.

Speaker 2 (01:56:39):
Well, let me see, Mane, I don't know. Is there
a facility for guests ask questions.

Speaker 1 (01:56:52):
I can take them in chat. I'm not showing how
many people are listening and no one's typing in the end.

Speaker 2 (01:57:03):
Okay, let's see. We could talk about any number of things.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:57:13):
You were covering the h the text earlier, the religious
texts and the history historical text and an item. You
said you could go on for a while about those.

Speaker 2 (01:57:25):
Yeah, I'm trying to think of something on topic here.
I mean I talked about all kinds of things to
all kinds of audiences. I'm just not familiar enough with
your audience to know what their exact interests are.

Speaker 1 (01:57:48):
But you was speaking about the the aircraft and stuff
having the ability to put up posse images. The act
is that like con say, or the holographic stuff or.

Speaker 2 (01:58:03):
Yeah, that's that's well, there are two things that were
involved there. One is putting up a false image of
itself like in modern military technology. You know, they have
the ability to put out false images of a holistic

(01:58:27):
missile warheads in orders they have decoys so that you
don't know, so that a defender's task is complicated, might
not know which of the warheads has an actual nuclear
weapon or which is a decoy.

Speaker 1 (01:58:48):
So I find that amazing, considering the age of the
text and everything, that it's possible that technology was around.
We haven't really mastered it yet ourselves. There's definitely about
knowledge lost in that.

Speaker 2 (01:59:04):
Yeah, I think ultimately it has to do with the
whole purpose of a civilization. As I was saying in
the beginning, as conscious, personal individual entities beings, we are

(01:59:27):
not from this level of reality and on this level
of reality. If we identify with the bodily vehicle, the
material bodily vehicle that we have, eventually we're going to
be disappointed because that vehicle is going to cease functioning

(01:59:52):
at a certain point in time. So I think it's
important to realize that if a civilization is based on
the concept that we're purely material beings, it's going to
end in frustration for everyone. We should have a proper

(02:00:14):
conception of who I am really, you know, like we
observe the activities of our bodily vehicles. We observe the
activities of the mind, the mental body, but who is

(02:00:36):
the actual observer? You know, that is something non material,
I believe. So if you have a civilization based on
the idea that our real identity is machines made of matter,
it's going to come to an end. And I think

(02:01:00):
on a very deep level, we're uncomfortable with that. So
what I propose is that we should correctly identify ourselves
because if I want to help myself, if I want
to do something good to help others, I can't do

(02:01:20):
it unless I know who I really am or what
another who another person really is. Otherwise I'm not doing
something that may be beneficial for them. So I think
our present civilization is misguided and misdirected.

Speaker 1 (02:01:44):
Yeah, I can agree with that.

Speaker 2 (02:01:46):
Yeah, And I think the reason, one of the main
reasons for it is that we're being inductrinated in the
education system and by the science typic community that were
machines made in molecules and competition with each other for survival.

(02:02:07):
And because of that, we think that to produce and
consume material things is the main necessity of human life.
So the average person buys into that, and because of
that works hard to produce and consume material things, which

(02:02:29):
is fine, but we do it in competition with each
other and individually and collectively as nations, societies, classes, genders, races.

(02:02:51):
It becomes the type of world that we have around us,
with conflict at all levels of human society and distrus
function of the environment. So that process of material production
and consumption, yeah, generates generates wealth, Yes, and the wealth

(02:03:14):
flows in differential ways, so you wind up with a
certain type of civilization if we had a different sense
of identity. I'm a being of pure consciousness, you're being
a pure consciousness. We're all beings of pure consciousness. There's
no need to divide ourselves up into competing groups based

(02:03:38):
on race, nationality, class, gender, so many superficial identifications. So
if we did that, then the levels of conflict and
violence would subside, and we'd figure out a way to

(02:04:00):
satisfy our material needs the most simple, natural, efficient and
fair way possible, and beyond that we would be able
to concentrate our human energy on developing the resource of consciousness.
For me, the measure of civilization is how many of

(02:04:22):
its members graduate from the material level existence to the
level of pure consciousness, which is beyond birth and death,
beyond the temporal nature of everything material, including our material
bodily vehicles. So the really successful civilization would be one

(02:04:47):
that would allow the maximum number of its members to
graduate to that level of pure consciousness. I mean this
takes us a long ways from the stones and Bones
that I was talking about earlier, but it leads in
that direction because if the kind of evidence for extreme

(02:05:11):
human antiquity that I document and Forbidden Archaeology and my
Fourthcoming book should be available for purchase shortly. If the
evidence for extreme human antiquity that I documented those books

(02:05:32):
is taken seriously, it means we need new explanations for
human origins, and those explanations are going to have to
involve a redefinition of our identity.

Speaker 1 (02:05:48):
You have views on reincarnation.

Speaker 2 (02:05:50):
Yes, I do. I think the conscious self survives the
death experience, and there's different bodies of scientific evidence that
support that. There are scientific studies of out of body

(02:06:12):
or near death experiences where people report separating from their
bodies and being able to observe what's happening, say a
cardiac arrest patient whose heart stops beating. Sometimes in that situation.

(02:06:32):
They report separating from their bodies and being able to
observe what the doctors and nurses they're doing try to
revive them. And when compared with their actual medical records,
which the patients don't see, they find that the descriptions given.

Speaker 10 (02:06:56):
By these out of body answers match the actual records
of their actual treatment.

Speaker 2 (02:07:08):
So that's something I'm very interested in. And another category
of evidence is studies of children who report past life memories.
There are many cases like that. A pioneer in this

(02:07:30):
research was doctor Stevenson Ian Stevenson of the University of
Virginia Medical School. He and his colleagues studied thousands of
cases of past life memories spontaneously reported by young children.

(02:07:52):
In cases like this, the researchers would carefully interview the
child to get as many details as possible about their
past life. Where was it? Who? Do you remember? Things
like that? Got to take a sip of water here.

Speaker 1 (02:08:11):
No problem. Yeah, I've read some up on that, and
it seems that once the the stories are backchecked, they
find a lot of evidence that these memories seem to
coincide with with history.

Speaker 2 (02:08:29):
Yeah, that's what doctor Stevenson found in his work.

Speaker 1 (02:08:34):
I find it all very interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:08:38):
So that process goes on, or you know, there are
different bodily vehicles that one could occupy. The human vehicle
is considered the most valuable because it's in the human
form of life that we can ask questions like this,

(02:09:02):
who am I really? What is the real nature of
the conscious self? Does it survive the death experience? If
it does, what happens to it? So the human form
of life is a dual purpose type of vehicle. It

(02:09:23):
can take us to the level of pure consciousness, or
we can use it to become more and more deeply
entangled in trying to dominate, control, and exploit matter and
other personalities in the material world. See that's going on

(02:09:44):
all the time. But the process has an endpoint, or
it can have an endpoint. One can get out of
the cycle repeated birth and death if one understands the
real nature of the self. And that is the purpose

(02:10:09):
of various systems of yoga and meditation, prayer, contemplation practiced,
and many different wisdom traditions all around the world. That
is the ultimate purpose of it, to get free from
the cycle of birth and death. So there have been

(02:10:33):
in the past civilizations that have been organized for that purpose,
but our present one isn't one of those. It's meant
for the opposite purpose to entangle people more deeply in
the material energy, which means they never escape the cycle

(02:10:59):
of birth and death. So really, as I said, the
way to judge is successful civilization is how many of
the conscious living entities in that civilization graduating out of

(02:11:23):
a cycle of birth and death.

Speaker 1 (02:11:27):
He used to be a contributing editor to the Back
to Godhead magazine.

Speaker 2 (02:11:34):
Yes, as I was mentioning, I became interested in the
spiritual culture of ancient India, and I later became a
disciple or student of a guru from India, acta Vedanta Swami,

(02:12:02):
and he had started the publication Back to Godhead in
India when he was there during the latter part of
the Second World War. He wanted a publication for the

(02:12:23):
general public that would explain the kinds of things that
I've been talking about. And later when he came to
the Western world, he came to the United States in
nineteen sixty five at the height of the counterculture as

(02:12:44):
it was called, and began opening centers in North America,
and that later it spread around the world. So myself
I've always had the desire to write and speak. That's

(02:13:06):
been a core desire of mine since the very beginning.
My mother actually once told me that when I was small,
a couple of years old, she would give me alphabet
soup to eat. She said I wouldn't eat it, I

(02:13:26):
would spell out words in the bowl. So I take
that as maybe something from a past life. And sometimes
it's noticed that somebody has as a child even some
particular talent or ability that you wonder, where did that

(02:13:47):
come from? Yeah, maybe somebody, you little kid is playing
elaborate tunes on a piano, or at school, solving very
comp mathematical equations very quickly. Probably it has to do
with their cultivation of such things and past lives. But

(02:14:13):
I always had a desire to write. And the system
of yoga my Gurup taught is called Bakti yoga yoga
of devotion, and one principle of it is you should
take whatever talent or ability that one has, whether it's

(02:14:36):
in science or philosophy, or writing or music or acting,
and use it. Use that talent or ability that you
have for a higher purpose. And I found I was

(02:14:56):
able to do that in But this practice about the yoga,
so I would say my writing and outreach are part
of my practice of yoga.

Speaker 1 (02:15:15):
I know you put out a number of books. You
have one that's not yet released, but I think they're
taking pre orders on it, the Extreme Human Antiquity, Right,
what topics did you kind of cover in that? I
don't want you to give it all the way so
people will buy your book.

Speaker 2 (02:15:32):
No, I mean it's a legitimate question why one brings
out a book and what's in it. Basically, people would
ask me, what has come to your attention since you
publish your first book. Forbidden Archaeology and Extreme Human Antiquity

(02:16:00):
is my answer to that question from my readers. It
contains the cases that have come to my attention and
the many years since Forbidden Archaeology was published, and it
also contains anything new I've learned about the cases from

(02:16:25):
the original book. Like at the time I wrote about
the California gold Mine Discoveries and Forbidden Archaeology, I only
knew about the case from books and publications that I

(02:16:48):
had managed to collect about that, Like doctor Whitney's book
The Responses of William Holmes, who tried to debunk his discoveries,
but in later years. I actually went to the Museum

(02:17:12):
of Anthropology at the University of California at Berkeley and
got access to some of the artifacts that Whitney had
collected for the muse for the University of California. So
there's the Museum of Anthropology at the University of California

(02:17:36):
at Berkeley that has those artifacts in its storerooms, and
I was able to actually see them. It was very
complicated process. It's interesting the producer of the documentary Mysterious

(02:17:58):
Origins of Man try to get in to see them
see those artifacts during the filming of Mysterious Origins of Man,
and the museum officials told him no. But I did

(02:18:21):
later get access to them, and you know, the story
of that is in Extreme Human Antiquity, the forthcoming book,
which will also include photographs of those artifacts. So, as
I said in Forbidden Archaeology, I only knew about the

(02:18:46):
discoveries by studying the documentary evidence. So that's an example
of an update, a new case that I didn't mention
and Forbidden Archaeology, but that I talk about in Extreme
Human Antiquity is the case of the engraved dinosaur bone

(02:19:11):
that I was mentioning. So that's what Extreme Human Antiquity
is about new cases and updates updated research on other
cases previously mentioned.

Speaker 1 (02:19:35):
It a lot of these museums keep things under wraps
that don't follow the mainstream archaeological stuff. Like you said,
they sometimes only want to let you see them. Is
that common among a lot of museums.

Speaker 2 (02:19:51):
Yeah, But in many cases they don't think they're doing
anything wrong. They think they're just being responsible custodians of
the evidence. And no museum displays everything in its collection,
you know, so they they decide, well, there's some questions

(02:20:19):
about these particular discoveries that we have in our store rooms,
and you know, I don't know exactly what the case is,
but I'm sure if I went to my colleague down
the hall, he'd be able to explain why these things

(02:20:40):
aren't considered to be what the original discoverer thought they were.
And you know, they don't think that they're hiding true evidence,
which if people knew about, would cause those people to

(02:21:03):
doubt the authority of the archaeologists and museum officials. They
don't see it like that that you see there being
responsible custodians of evidence. But the effect is just the
same as if it were a conspiracy to suppress truth.

(02:21:30):
The result is that the general public we don't get
all the information that we need in order to properly
understand what our real history is. So, whether it's just

(02:21:51):
some innocent knowledge filtration or some conspiracy to suppress truth,
the effect is the same. I guess, like Congress, you know,
they always have these hearings where they want information from
some government department and they have a hard time getting it.

(02:22:17):
Kind of like that in a way.

Speaker 1 (02:22:21):
Yeah, it's a shame they don't take it like a detective.
You don't just take bits and pieces of evidence. You
need all of it, you know, to make a determination.
It sounds like they're kind of putting a damper on that.

Speaker 2 (02:22:37):
Yeah. Well, one thing is once I was giving a
lecture at a university in Amsterdam, Holland, and my audience
was graduate students of archaeology, geology and paleontology. And the

(02:22:58):
way I presented this topic to them was I told them,
you should be aware of the entire data set that's
relevant to your field of study, to your discipline and
your specialization, whatever it is. And I said, if at

(02:23:24):
the present moment, if you're aware of the entire data set,
I will leave it up to you to decide this
is credible, this is not so credible, this is you know,
you can divide up that data set as you wish,

(02:23:47):
but just be aware of the whole thing, because something
that does not seem credible at the present moment does
not seem to fit, it may fit in light of
future discoveries.

Speaker 1 (02:24:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:24:06):
Yeah, so, yeah, you can divide up the data set
as you like at the present moment, but keep the
entire thing in view, because something that doesn't make sense
today may make sense in the light of later discoveries.
But if you just throw it out, yeah, for completely,

(02:24:30):
forget about it, cast it into oblivion, you're not going
to have that available for you when you could use it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:24:41):
I need to put it all out there and give
people the opportunity to make their own decisions.

Speaker 2 (02:24:48):
Yeah. I think that's a scientific way to proceed. I'll
add that at that. At that after that class, one
of the paleontologies students came up to me and said,
I was on an excavation with my professor and Saudi Arabia.

(02:25:09):
I guess it was. They were excavating dinosaur bones. And
there's the very common idea in science today is that
all the dinosaurs went extinct at the end of the
Cretaceous period about sixty five million years ago, and the

(02:25:35):
next formation of that it's called the Paleocene. And the
student said, I was in the excavation. I found a
dinosaur bone and I showed it to my professor and
he said, it can't be a dinosaur bone because it's

(02:25:59):
in the pal and Palaeocene deposits, and the dinosaurs went
extinct at the end of the Cretaceous sixty five million
years ago. So the student was just telling me that

(02:26:20):
he could see. I mean, another way to accept that
evidence is that some of the dinosaurs survived the extinction
event at the Cretaceous tertiary boundary. Technically they call it
the KT boundary. So it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (02:26:44):
Yeah, well, we occasionally have sighting such creatures as Luckless Monster.
I don't know the reality of that, but I mean
it could be possible we still have some that exists.

Speaker 2 (02:27:02):
Yeah, I mean that takes you into the topic of
cryptos zoology, where you have sightings of I mean, there
have been sightings reported by pretty credible witnesses of something
like these flying dinosaurs what they call pterosaurs, pterodactyl pterodactyl. Yeah,

(02:27:29):
and then others have reported seeing other kinds of dinosaurs
in remote parts of the world, like the Amazon or cargo,
So you do get some reports of such things. And yeah,

(02:27:52):
I mean speaking of a dinosaurs. You were mentioning earlier
about any possible evidence for that. When I was writing
Forbidden Archaeology, the case of the Pluxi River case where

(02:28:14):
dinosaur and human footprints were found in the same layer
of rock. Yes, you know that that was originally reported
by doctor Henry Morris Junior, who was admitted, you know, creationist,

(02:28:36):
biblical creationist researcher, and he had originally reported that they
were human footprints next to dinosaur footprints, but he wrote
a letter to Nature in which he withdrew his claims.
He said, actually, I was kind of deceived. They were

(02:29:00):
sore footprints that had eroded so that they looked like
a human footprint. So, because at the time I was
writing Forbidden in Archaeology, I was aware that he had
retracted his claims, I kind of put that case aside

(02:29:20):
and didn't include it in the book. But when the
book came out, you know, I started getting letters from
archaeology students, And I got a letter from one archaeology
graduate student in Texas and she asked me if some

(02:29:41):
do is there anything I could do to assist you
in your research? And I thought, you know, you're a
I said to her, you're a student of archaeology, a
graduate student. Why don't you go to that Biloxi resite
in Texas and tell me what you think of those

(02:30:04):
footprints there. So she agreed to do that. She went
to the site and the researchers there, you know, from
the Creation Research Society or one of those groups, was
conducting a new excavation, you know these they were breaking

(02:30:31):
off layers of rock to get to lower layers. And
in these new excavations, they found new human footprints next
to dinosaur footprints, and the archaeology student told me they
looked convincing to her. So on that basis, I'm including

(02:30:57):
that case in my fourth come book, for which we're
taking pre orders on my website Mpremo dot com, MCIMO
dot com. On that basis, I'm including that Biloxi River

(02:31:17):
case in Extreme Human Antiquity.

Speaker 1 (02:31:23):
And I saw pictures from that site and they looked
like human footprints to me, and like you said, they
continued on under the rock that they excavated.

Speaker 2 (02:31:35):
Yeah. So another time an archaeology student wrote to me.
He wrote that he was out on an excavation with
his professor somewhere in the United States, and he happened

(02:31:56):
to mention to his professor, maybe human beings have been
around longer than we now think possible. And his professor
said to him, I've got a book you should read.
And the professor gave him his personal copy of Forbidden

(02:32:21):
Archaeology that he had been reading. And he probably wouldn't
have mentioned it to this to anyone, except when he
found somebody who was questioning raising a question about how
long is the human species really been around. So when

(02:32:46):
I was writing the book, I was hoping it would,
in addition to becoming known to the general public, I
was hoping that among even professionals, that would kind of
circulate underground sort of, And that appears to be what happened.

Speaker 1 (02:33:10):
You want to give the sources for your new book,
that way people can pre order Extreme Human Antiquity.

Speaker 2 (02:33:20):
Yes, there's a website for the book called Extreme Human
Antiquity dot com. They can go there, or they can
go to my personal website. Mcremo dot com m c
r e m o dot com and on that web

(02:33:46):
page click the order link and they'll be brought to
a page where they can pre order the book.

Speaker 1 (02:34:00):
I also have most of your links listed on my
website for the show. They can also go there. My
website address is nwdn dot net. It's a November Whiskey
Delta November dot net and those links will be up there.
I appreciate you being on a show, and I hope

(02:34:21):
we possibly have you back in the future. Oh sure,
and thank Lorie for arranging everything for us.

Speaker 2 (02:34:31):
Yeah. Well yeah, if you said her a line, she'd
appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (02:34:37):
I'll do it, yes, sir. All righty sir. I know
it's getting late there and you're probably ready to get
some rest.

Speaker 2 (02:34:46):
So well, are we Did we reach the three hour limit?

Speaker 1 (02:34:53):
It's my time is twenty three forty eight, so or
maybe twelve minutes till.

Speaker 2 (02:35:01):
Well we can fill up the remaining twelve minutes.

Speaker 1 (02:35:04):
Well, o case, I didn't want to keep you too long.
I know you if you like.

Speaker 2 (02:35:12):
Art Bell was three hours, but he had more advertisements
and breaks. Same with George Newry. Yes, not everybody that
does the three hour show, but some do, and as

(02:35:34):
long as I can get a word out, I'll be
happy to participate.

Speaker 1 (02:35:41):
Already, there were some other things that I had read,
but I didn't get them jotted down in time. Questions,
I promise you next time you're one.

Speaker 2 (02:35:58):
Every everybody has their own style, you know, like I
tend to talk too much. Oh, no, you do fine,
I'll talk over the host, you know sometimes you know
it could be more of a conversation. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:36:19):
Well, I'm a listener anyway, so I have had no
trouble listening to you to explain things.

Speaker 2 (02:36:29):
Yeah, and sometimes you know, for most questions. I mean,
I've been doing this for a long time. You know,
I can't count the number of radio shows and podcasts
I've been on. But yeah, you get kind of like

(02:36:54):
the same not in all cases, you get the same
question and you've got your answer to it that you've
given many times. So sometimes it's like good when I think,
I find it really good when a host kind of

(02:37:21):
ask you a question that you actually have to think
about yes, and not just repeat an answer that you've
given before, and you were able.

Speaker 1 (02:37:34):
To do that, well, I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:37:39):
You know, like you just asked me something that completely
stopped me. Well, is there anything you would like to
talk about, because I'm just not used to getting that
from a host of a podcast, or I think another
time somebody asked me a question that I didn't have

(02:38:03):
a ready answer for. It's like, somebody gave you a
billion dollars, what would you do with it? Yeah, well, yeah,
that's that's it.

Speaker 1 (02:38:19):
I don't know if it was me, if I had
that much money, I have health issues, I would be
concerned about taking care of that first before buying something.

Speaker 2 (02:38:29):
Or you know, well, I mean for the for the research,
you know, I would. I would say I would because
I know people who are involved in research that tries
to replace or offer alternatives to some of the current views,

(02:38:56):
either in consciousness studies or archaeology or something like that.
And the only thing I could that I finally said
to this archaeology professor who asked me that question, I
kind of said, probably and now some kind of alternative

(02:39:20):
research organization, Yeah, try to give people the facility to
carry out research that might not be funded by some
of the standard universities and scientific institutions and governments. You

(02:39:43):
know that that might That's the best answer that I
could come up with that question. I hadn't heard it before,
so I think about it for a minute.

Speaker 1 (02:40:00):
Well, before we have you on again, I promise I'll
read all of your books. I've only read Forbidden Archaeologists,
but I'll put an order in for all of them
that wack.

Speaker 2 (02:40:13):
And one interesting book to get is one that doesn't
sell very much, but I think it's very interesting called
Forbidden Archaeologies Impact. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:40:29):
So I've seen it listed on Amazon. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:40:33):
Yeah, And that book is for me very interesting because
sometimes people would ask what has been the reaction to
your work? So I put together kind of everything you
know that has to do with that topic, the different

(02:40:55):
reviews that different scientists and archaeologists published in the scientific journals,
and I also put in my replies, letters to the
editor and things like that, and then I put my

(02:41:18):
correspondence with different scientists and academics where they ask questions
or make objections to things I say. And so I
think it's a very interesting book. I hope it's one

(02:41:38):
of the ones that you get.

Speaker 1 (02:41:41):
I'll for sure get it, and it sounds like really interesting.
It probably would have helped me if I had read
that one before the interview.

Speaker 2 (02:41:49):
Here you know, in another sense, Yeah, it's always been.
You know, sometimes I do interview views in person. Yeah,
where you're in a television studio or radio studio and
the host whoever's going to interview me or talk to me,

(02:42:10):
comes in. They've got a forbidden archaeology book with about
five hundred bookmarks in it, you know, and like on
page five hundred and ninety three, you.

Speaker 1 (02:42:26):
Say, what did I say? I don't remember that page.

Speaker 2 (02:42:33):
You know, I don't have a photographic memory. Yeah, you know,
so I'm I'm kind of happy if the host or
the interviewer just wants to ask the questions that come
to them. I wrote the introductions to my books in
such a way that, I mean the main books for

(02:42:57):
Biden Archaeology, Human devolution, and so on, that if a
reporter or host of a show just reads the introduction,
they'll get the whole substance of the book. You know,
why I wrote it, what the results, what my methodology is,

(02:43:22):
what's in each of the chapters, and so in a
fairly short period of time. Because not every person who
interviews me, I can't really expect them to read a
nine hundred page book. And you know, that's a little
bit too much, but if they read the introduction they'll

(02:43:49):
get the gist of it pretty quickly. So anyways, Welsa,
I appreciate you here.

Speaker 1 (02:43:59):
We're coming up on the top of the hour, and
like I say, I'd be very interested in having you
back on in the future and I'll follow you along
in interviews and stuff you do and see if there's
any new evidence that would really be interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:44:17):
Yeah, I'd be happy to do that, alrighty, sir, Well
you have have a good evening.

Speaker 1 (02:44:23):
I say, it's been an honor to have you on
and we'll look forward to doing it once again in
the future. Yep, thank you, sir. I'll let you get
to bed or whatever you need to take care of
and you have a good night, and thank you for

(02:44:45):
forget again for coming on the show. I hope in
the future my interview skills improve. I'm sure they will
over time.

Speaker 2 (02:44:52):
But you did fine well. Thank you, especially with the
stop the questions.

Speaker 1 (02:45:00):
Thank you, sir. And all right, I'll send a link
to Uhlrie uh for my page.

Speaker 2 (02:45:09):
Okay, thank you much to you.

Speaker 1 (02:45:11):
Good night.

Speaker 2 (02:45:13):
Did I tell your listeners thank you sir, m.

Speaker 1 (02:45:48):
M M M.

Speaker 3 (02:46:02):
And MS

Speaker 2 (02:46:11):
And the man an

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