September 17, 2025 • 29 mins
The episode offers a comprehensive look at the Chevrolet Monte Carlo, tracing its evolution from its 1970 launch as a personal luxury coupe with significant muscle car performance to its eventual discontinuation in 2007. It highlights the car's origins and early success with powerful V8 engine options, particularly the SS 454, before shifting focus to its later generations which emphasized luxury and efficiency during the "malaise era" and saw a revival of the SS trim with NASCAR-inspired styling. The article also discusses the Monte Carlo's strong presence in pop culture and its dominant role in NASCAR, ultimately explaining why this versatile vehicle, despite its rich history and performance capabilities, remains an overlooked muscle car by many enthusiasts and collectors today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What if we told you there was a car, an
American classic that on surface it looked like this elegant
you know, luxury coup.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Yeah, like a pure boulevard cruiser, comfort prestige.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Exactly, But secretly it had the heart of a real
muscle car. I mean, a car that could actually smoke
a Corvette back in the day.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It sounds kind of like a myth, doesn't it, But no,
it's absolutely true. It's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Actually, it really is how one car could be marketed
for luxury but packed that kind of punch.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
That's the thing. It wasn't just like a marketing angle.
It's sort of the core tension of the Monte Carlo.
This unexpected power under this elegant skin.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That duality. Yeah, that's what makes it so interesting.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
It just refuses to be put in one box, you know.
It makes the history really compelling.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
You're spot on that mix of contradiction and sheer capability.
So today we're doing a deep dive into the Chevrolet
Monte Carlo, a car that honestly gets overlooked a lot
and misunderstood.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Definitely. People might know it as like a smooth cruiser
or maybe a NASCAR legend.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Or they saw it in a movie, right, But its
identity is just so much richer, so much more complex
than most people realize. It's a real automotive chameleon.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So our mission here is basically to unpack that whole
fascinating journey. We'll look at its origins, which were pretty ambitious,
a personal luxury car but with serious performance potential, and.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Then track how it changed over the years, yeah, adapting to.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
The time exactly, and look at its legacy wide indoors.
But the whole time, we really want to spotlight why
that muscle aspect just doesn't get the attention it deserves.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And how we'll do this, as always is pull the
best insights from a whole range of sources, give you
the shortcut to really understanding this icon. Lots of surprising facts,
cool detailed.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So yeah, let's get into it. Hashtag tab tag I
the genesis of a personal luxury coup with Muscle nineteen
seventy nineteen seventy two first generation.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Okay, so to really get the Monty Carlos story, we
got to rewind back to the late nineteen sixties. It
was such an interesting time for cars, kind of transitional,
wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, oh, absolute utely. The whole landscape was shifting. The
pure muscle car craze was maybe starting to peak, but
people still wanted something exciting, not just a boring sedan.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Right, They wanted something a bit more refined.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, but still cool exactly, sophistication and sporty appeal. That
was the growing demand a car that felt luxurious, comfortable,
you know, a nice ride, but still looked dynamic, felt engaging.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
And that really gave birth to the whole personal luxury segment.
It was about expressing yourself, having something a cut above
the average.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Without going full sports car like a giant Cadillac and.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
GM saw this coming. I mean they always did, right,
They had the Pontiac Grand Prix, which got that sleek
redesigned in sixty nine and was just flying off the.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Lots huge success. But Chevrolet, they didn't really have a
direct shot at the Ford's Thunderbird, which basically invented this
whole category. Chevy needed something specific for their lineup.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
So how do you launch a new car like that,
especially when your sister brand, Pontiac is already killing it
in a similar space.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, Chevy's play wasn't just let's make a comfy two door.
It was about carving out a distinct identity for the
Monte Carlo, aiming for someone who wanted that refinement, that quiet.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Ride, but still wanted it to look sharp, elegant.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Right and crucially, they aimed for a more accessible price
point than say a Thunderbird or even maybe the Grand Prix.
That widened the appeal significantly.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And boom. September eighteenth, nineteen sixty nine, they introduced it
for the nineteen seventy model year, and the name itself
Monty Carlo m Monaco pretty clear signal right, upscale, glamorous.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
No mistaking the aspiration there. They weren't trying to be subtle.
This was meant to feel more special than a regular Chevelle.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Or Impala, and the marketing slogan kind of nailed it.
A personal luxury coup that offered a lot more car
than it has to be.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I love that line. It suggests something extra, something indulgent.
And the price base price three and twenty three dollars,
that was really key.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
How does that compare to like the average car? Back then?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Average car price in nineteen seventy was around thirty five
hundred dollars, so The Monte Carlo offered this step up
in style and features for less than the average that
made luxury feel attainable, huge part of its initial success
hashtag hashtag see distinctive design and upscale features.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Okay, let's talk design, because this is where the Money
Carlo really stood out. It wasn't just you know, a
Chevelle with fancier trim. This car had its.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Own vibe totally. It was built on GM's A Special platform. Now,
for folks listening, a platform is like the cars skeleton,
the chassis, the core bits. The A Special was a
stretched version of the regular, a body shared only with
the Pontiac grum Prix. That stretch was critical.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
How so what did that do for the look?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It dictated that profile, that long, almost regal look, had
one hundred and sixteen inch wheel base, same as the
four door Chevelle. Actually, but, and this is important, four
inches longer than the two door chevell Ah.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Okay, so that extra lengths really made a different.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Huge difference. And combine that with the hood. Oh man,
that hood sixty nine inches long, the longest hood ever
put on a Chevrolet.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
At the time. Sixty nine inches. That's incredible. No, wonder
it looks so distinctive, so stretched out, almost graceful.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You really needed some space to park that thing. And
you can see the influences too. Sources point to the
Cadillac El Dorado the peak of personal luxury then. Monte
Carlo was definitely aiming high and.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
The details were just perfect for that image. That chrome
grill with.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
The tiny squares, yeah, seven hundred and twenty of them,
really intricate, and the Knight's crest emblem, that Corinthian helmet
gave it a touch of class heritage.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Round headlights and chrome bezels, classic look. And then the
short trunk to balance out that enormous hood. Visually, that
just worked.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And the inside it delivered on that luxury promise. Simulated
wood trim, they actually modeled it after Rolls Race ELM trim.
Can you believe that in a Chevy.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Wow, it's aiming high.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Plush seats, really comfortable and you could load it up
with options, power windows, AC still a big deal then.
And that Landau vinyl roof. Explain the Landau roof again, right,
It's where the back part of the roof is covered
in vinyl, often with like a chrome strip. It mimicked
the look of a convertible's folded top, gave it an
extra touch of elegance without being a full convertible. Really
(06:07):
popular style cube. Back then, it just screamed luxury hashtag
tag tag tag d the overlooked musclecar credentials.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Okay, elegant, luxurious, crazy, long hood, fancy interior check chick chick.
But here's the twist. Here's where it gets really interesting
and why we're calling it overlooked muscle Underneath all that
fancy trim.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, despite the luxury marketing, that first gen Monti Carlo
had serious performance potential hiding in there. This is where
the story flips.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Absolutely. The base engine wasn't some wimpy six cylinder. It
was a three hundred and fifty cubic inch V eight
yeah five point seven leaders the turbo fire small block,
and even with just.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
A basic two barrel carburetor, it made two hundred and
fifty horsepower gross horsepower we should clarify it, and three
hundred and forty five pound feet of.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Torque, which for a car marketed as a luxury cruiser
back then is actually pretty stout right.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Definitely not sluggish at all, more than enough to move
that car with authority, a really strong starting point.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And that was just the start. You could option up
to two different four hundred cubic inch V eights if
you wanted more power.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
But the real monster, the one that makes people do
a double take, the SS four to five four package.
This is the hidden beast. We hinted at tell.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Us about the SS four to fifty four. This is
the core of the muscle argument.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh yeah, this is where it roars. You got the
massive four hundred and fifty four cubic inch big block
V eight seven point four leaders of pure American iron.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Okay, how much power are we talking.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
We're talking three hundred and sixty horse power and a
stump pulling three hundred and eighty pound feet of torque.
Just imagine that kind of force in a car designed
to look elegant and ride smooth.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
It completely messes with your perception of the car.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Totally defies expectations. Supercar level of power basically wrapped in
the sophisticated package.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It wasn't just an engine swap, right, It was a
whole package deal exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
It wasn't just jamming a big engine in there. That
four to fifty four was only available with the heavy
duty turbohydramatic three speed automatic really robust trends.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Mission built to handle the power, and you.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Got a heavy duty suspension tune for performance, plus automatic
level control for the rear suspension so it stayed level
even when you hammered it. Proper performance engineering.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And the price for all this, get this.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Just four hundred and twenty dollars extra over the base model.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Four hundred and twenty bucks.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
That's it, which even back then was incredible value. Think
about that today, getting that kind of massive engine and
performance upgrade for maybe what thirty three hundred dollars in
today's money, insane bang for your buck.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So how did it actually perform? Did the magazines test it?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh yeah, Motor Trend tested one zero to sixty and
seven seconds flat quarter mile and fourteen point nine seconds
at ninety two miles per hour?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Okay, fourteen point nine. How does that stack up against?
Like other muscle cars, a Chevelle Ss.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It was right there with them. It could hang with
and sometimes even beat cars like the Chevelle Ss, which
had a much more aggressive image.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And here's the absolute kicker, the thing that makes you
just shake your head motor tren found the Monte Carlo
SS four fifty four was actually faster in the quarter
mile than the Corvette by a tenth of a second.
The Corvette, Chevy's flagship sports car beaten by this, this
personal luxury coup. How is that even possible? And why
isn't that the headline story about the Monte Carlo.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
That's the paradox, isn't it. It's phenomenal performance, but it's
still kind of this hidden gem. Part of it is rarity.
They didn't build that many.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
How rare are we talking?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Only three eight hundred twenty three in nineteen seventy and
even fewer in seventy one, just one nine hundred and nineteen.
That's tiny numbers compared to other muscle cars. So they
just weren't as visible.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Makes sense. Hard to become an eyiconft nobody sees you exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And you still hear those rumors right about the LS six, Yeah,
the super.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
High performance four to fifty four, the four hundred and
twenty five horse power. One did any Monty Carlos actually
get that?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
The legend persists, but official Chevrolet records say no. The
LS six was strictly Corvette only. But hey, it adds
to the mystique, doesn't it. The Standard ESS four to
fifty four was already a.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Monster, true, So why did they kill the SS four
fifty four after all the two years nineteen seventy one
was the last year for it.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
It really came down to marketing strategy mostly. Chevrolet decided
they wanted to push the money Carlo firmly into the
luxury camp less muscle, more plush, so.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
The performance was almost inconvenient for the image they wanted.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Kinda yeah. Plus, you had emissions regulations starting to bite,
the first rumblings about fuel economy. The writing was sort
of on the wall for those big thirsty engines. They
pulled the plug on the SS package. Hashtag tag EE
sales success and shifting tides.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Okay, so the SS four fifty four was short lived,
but overall, how did the first gen Monty carlos sell
I know? There was a strike early on?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, a big one hundred and thirty six day strike
at the Fisher body plant delayed things initially could have
been bad for a new model, but no, it was
a smash hit right away.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Really, how big a hit?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Nineteen seventy its first year, they sold almost one hundred
and forty six thousand of them. Wow, and get this,
that was triple the sales of the Ford Thunderbird that year.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Triple the Thunderbird. Okay, so people absolutely loved this blend
of style and you know available power.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
They really did, and sales kept climbing. Peaked over one
hundred and eighty thousand by nineteen seventy two. It's a
dominant player.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
With that peak. Nineteen seventy two also marked a turning point,
didn't it. The whole muscle car era was starting to fade.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, the storm clouds were gathering. The nineteen seventy three
oil crisis was just around the corner, going to shock everyone.
Emission standards were getting way tighter. The focus was shifting
fast from horsepower to miles per gallon.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And that brings us to something really important, something that
confuses people looking back at old car specks. The horse
power ratings changed in seventy two, right.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Critically important point. Yes, they switched from gross horsepower ratings
to SAE net ratings.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Explain the difference because the numbers dropped grastically on paper.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Right, So that same three point fifty v eight that
was two hundred and fifty gross horse power in seventy one.
Suddenly in seventy two it's rated at one hundred and
sixty five net horse power. The four fifty four dropped
from three hundred and sixty gross to two hundred and
seventy net.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Looks like a massive power cutnight, but it.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Wasn't quite that simple. Gross horsepower was measured under ideal
conditions and gen on a stand, no accessories, no real exhaust,
kind of optimistic. Net horsepower was measured more realistically as
installed in the car with all the accessories, air cleaner exhaust, everything.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So net was closer to the real world power you actually.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Got exactly now. Power was starting to decrease due to
early emissions controls, lower compression ratios, things like that, but
the rating change itself made the drop look much much
bigger than it actually was. In some cases. It's key
context for comparing cars from before and after seventy two
hashtag tag TiO Navigating the malays Era and downsizing nineteen
(12:38):
seventy three, nineteen eighty eight, Second, third, and fourth generations.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Okay, so the first gen ends on a high note
sales wise, but with those storm clouds gathering and that
confusing horse power change. Then we had the second generation
seventy three to seventy seven, and this is deep into
what people now call the Malayse.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Era, right, oh yeah, firmly in the Malay's era. This
generation really shows the industry struggling, grappling with the oil
crisis fallout, much tighter emissions rules. Engineers were really fighting
in uphill battle.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Performance just wasn't the priority anymore, not at all.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It was fuel economy, emissions, safety, Those were the driving forces.
Cars got heavier, oft and slower. It was a tough
time to make exciting cars.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
And the Monte Carlo changed quite a bit for seventy three.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
It did new body built on the regular a body
platform now shared at the Chavelle and others. Lost that
unique a special base.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
And the look it got bigger.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Right well, definitely bulkier, heavier, look those big sort of
swoopy fenders, the colonnade style roof with the fixed rear
side windows. It looked more formal, less sleek than the
first gen. Still elegant maybe, but different, heavier, and.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
The performance image took a.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Big step back. The SS trim was gone completely, replaced
by a custom package clear signal we're focusing on luxury now,
not speed.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
What about the engines? Could you still get a big
block you could?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Surprisingly, the four to fifty four V eight stuck around
as an option through nineteen seventy five, but its power
was way down. Catalytic converters came in, other emission stuff.
They were really choking those engines.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So the focus was luxury, but the engine options started getting.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, this era saw some strange stuff. You had the
standard three fifty V eight, a four hundred V eight,
but then starting in seventy eight, they offered an Oldsmobile
diesel V eight, a diesel Carl a diesel my Carlo. Wow,
that really shows how desperate they were for fuel economy
numbers totally. And you had various V sixes popping up too.
From a thundering four fifty four just a few years
earlier to offering a diesel quite the shift shows the
(14:33):
turmoil of the times.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
But the luxury touches remained.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh yeah, Landau roofs were still huge swivel bucket seats.
Those were cool, made getting in and out easier in
those big coops plush interiors. It doubled down on being
a comfortable cruiser, and it kind.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Of cemented its place competing against cars like the Chrysler
Cordoba right rich Crenthian leather exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
It really leaned into that personal luxury fight. But in
doing so, it kind of lost that muscle car connection
from the first gen almost completely became a different car
in people's minds.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
And here's a weird fact. By seventy seven, the Monte
Carlo was actually bigger than the newly downsized Chevy Caprice.
The full sized car.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Isn't that wild? Shows how bloated some of these cubes
got even as other cars were shrinking, A real product
of its time.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Okay, so after that bulky second gen we get the
third generation seventy eight to eighty, and now downsizing wasn't optional,
it was mandatory.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Right absolutely. This was the era of cafe corporate average
fuel economy standards. Automakers had to make their fleets more
efficient or face big fines. So everything got smaller.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
And the Mandi Carlo shrunk too.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yep, moved to the smaller G body platform shared with
the Grand Prix Cutlass Regal, much lighter, more compact, a
necessary move.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
How did this staling change.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Smoother lines, more aerodynamic, less fussy than the seventy three
to seventy seven cars. Still pretty boxy by today's standards,
but definitely cleaner, more conservative, maybe a bit anonymous compared
to the first.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And engines still chasing efficiency.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Oh yeah. V sixs became much more common. Small V
eights were still around, but performance was absolutely secondary. Mileage
was king.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
And how to do in the market. Imports were getting
really popular.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Then it was tougher. The Monte Carlo, like a lot
of American cars, struggled a bit to stand out against smaller,
often more fuel efficient imports from Japan and Europe. It
was a challenging time for the traditional American coup.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
But then, just when you think the Moni Carlo story
is kind of fizzling out into efficient, boxy anonymity, the
fourth generation arrives eighty one to eighty eight, and something
exciting happens in eighty three.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
The Yess returns. Yeah, this was a big deal, a
real resurgence of spirit for the Monte Carlo.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Now it wasn't the SS four fifty four kind of
performance right now?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Definitely not that level of brute force. Now, this SS
had the three hundred and five cubic inch V eight
The five point zero Leader made about one hundred and
eighty horse power, modest by today's standards, but respectable for
the time.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
But it was more than just the engine, wasn't it right?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Crucially, it got a performance tuned suspension, better handling, specific
axle ratio. It was much more engaging to drive, a
real step back towards sportiness.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
And the look that fourth gen SS, especially the later
ones with the slope nose, yeah, they just screamed NASCAR totally.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
The styling was directly inspired by the race cars that
air Coop designed with the sloped rear glass. Wasn't just
for looks, it was amuligation for NASCAR. They built road
cars that looked like the race cars because the Monte
Carlo was dominating on the track.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
It had been Chevy's main NASCAR weapon for years by then, hadn't.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
It since seventy one? Basically, that original long wheelbase and
hood design just worked incredibly well for stock car racing,
great stability, good aerodynamics for the time. It was the
car to beat for much of the seventies and eighties.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And driven by absolute legends.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Icons Richard Petty Daryl Waltrip and of course Dale Earnhardt Sr.
The Intimidator. He became synonymous with the Chevy Monte Carlo
countless wins championships. It cemented the car's legacy in racing.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Seeing that car win every Sunday death only boosted its image.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
No question. And this fourth genss even with the three
ZHO five, it had that vibe. It could, you know,
smoke the tires as they say. It brought back some
of that first gen muscle car feeling, even if it
was an eighties interpretation. It felt fun again.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Became kind of the quintessential eighties American muscle car for
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It really did. But like before, the era came to
an end. Nineteen eighty eight was the last year for
the rear wheel drive Monte Carlo, replaced.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
By the Lumina Coupe right front wheel drive YEAP.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
GM was shifting everything intermediate to front wheel drive. Muscle
car sales were down overall safety and emissions rules were
getting tougher. It was the end of the line for
that traditional layout for the Monte Carlo. A bit sad
really hashtag taed tag three the front wheel drive era
and final chapters nineteen ninety five to two thousand and
seven fifth and sixth generations.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
So after eighty eight, the money Carlo name disappeared for
a bit. How long was the gap?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Six years? Quite a hiatus, felt like it might be
gone for good, but then it came back in nineteen
ninety five for the fifth generation.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
But it was different, very different, completely.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Different animal front wheel drive now based on the Chevy
lumined platform, the GMW body which underpinned like half of
GM's cars back then.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
It felt like a big shift from its rear wheel
drive routs.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Huge shift reflected where the industry was going, packaging efficiency,
more interior room for the size, shared components to save.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Costs, and what were the options trim levels engines.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
You had the basic LS trim and a sportier Z
thirty four. Engines were all V sixes. The LS got
a three point one leader about one hundred and sixty
horse power, decent commuter.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
In the Z thirty four.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
That was the performance one relatively speaking. Yeah, it had
a three point four liter V six making around two
hundred and ten two hundred and fifteen horse power, so
not a tire shredder, but definitely pepier decent performance for
a mid sized front wheel drive coup in the mid nineties.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Was it trying to be a muscle car?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Not really, No, it was more of a stylish, comfortable,
reasonably quick personal coup for the era. Different mission.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And how did people react to the name coming back
on FWD cart Did it sell?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It actually did okay, initially sold over forty thousand ninety
five showed the name still had recognition, still had appeal
even with the drive train change. People liked the styling okay.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Then the sixth and final generation launched for the two
thousand model year, big styling changes here, right, tried to
connect back to the past.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, they really leaned into the heritage look. New headlights,
more aggressive, But the big thing was the rear end,
the tay lights, the shape of the trunk lid. It
was deliberately designed to echo the look of the popular
seventy seventy two models. A very conscious retronaut trying.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
To recapture some of that old magic. Did the SS
trim come back strong?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It did come back, but initially it wasn't earth shattering.
Started with the three point eight Leader V six about
two hundred horsepower, good solid engine, but not exactly thrilling.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But then they added boost yep.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
In two thousand and four they offered a supercharged version
of that three point eight leader V six bumped it
up to two hundred and forty horse power. Now we're talking.
That made a real difference, gave the FWDSS some genuine kick.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And then the really big news for performance fans. For
the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
V eight power to yes. For two thousand and six
and two thousand and seven they did something pretty wild
for a FWD car. They stuffed a five point three
liters V eight under the hood.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
A V eight Monte Carlo. Again, how much power?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Three hundred and three horsepower? First V eight and a
Monte Carlo since the eighties a really potent engine.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
How did a front wheel drive car handle three hundred
and three horse power? Must have been tricky.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
It definitely had its challenges. Yeah, torque steer could be
an issue if you just stomped on it. But GM
put a lot of effort into the chassis, tuning, traction control,
and honestly, it was quick, really quick.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
How quick are we talking?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Believe it or not? That V eight Monte Carlo SS
was the second fastest car in Chevrolet's lineup at the time.
Only the Corvette was quicker.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Wow, So even as a FWD car, it still had
some serious performance credit.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The end, it really did. It showed Chevy was still
trying to inject excitement into the nameplate, pushing the limits
of that platform.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And the NASCAR connection was still strong in this era,
very strong.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
The styling continued to draw inspiration from the race cars,
especially Dale Earnhardt's famous number three three. They leaned into
it heavily with special editions, the Intimidator Edition, Tony Stewart editions,
celebrating that racing heritage was a key part of its identity.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Then so if it had VA power again, looked cool,
had the NASCAR connection? Why did he get canceled in
two thousand and seven.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Ultimately, sales just kept declining. The market for big two
door Coons was shrinking rapidly. People were moving to Sedan's SUVs, practical.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Stuff, and the Camaro was coming back soon right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Exactly, The re real drive Camaro was on the horizon
to be Chevy's affordable performance coup So the Monte Carlos
time just ran out. End of an era after almost
forty years, so that.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Covers the production history, the ups and downs. But the
Monte Carlos story is bigger than just assembly lines, isn't it.
It really became part of the culture.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Oh absolutely. It had this cool factor, this blend of
style and sometimes menace that just worked on screen.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
And training day right. Yeah, Denzel's character driving that beat
up seventy.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Perfect car for that character, added this layer of gritty realism,
street cred. And then you see a pristine seventy one
show up in The Fast and the Furious Tokyo Drift
shows its timeless appeal crossing genres and.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Didn't one show up on a game show?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah? Fun fact, a restored seventy two Monte Carlo was
a prize on The Price Is Right back in twenty twelve,
which is kind of amazing. Shows its broad recognition in.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
A music too. Seems like it popped up a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Especially in hip hop and rock videos. It often symbolized
like individuality, maybe a bit of rebellion, just a cool
looking American car with presents, and while it was cruising
through pop culture, it was absolutely crushing it on the racetrack.
It's fascinating how it had these two lives.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Luxury car on the street, absolute beast.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
On the track pretty much. It dominated NASCAR in two
long stretches seventy one to eighty nine basically, and then
again from ninety five to a seven when.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
It came back. Why was it so good for NASCAR?
Was it just the engine?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Not just the engine? Especially those early ones. That long
wheelbase gave its stability, The long hood helped with weight distribution,
and the kape, especially after aerodynamic tweaks over the years,
just worked really well on the big oval tracks. Teams
loved it. I do a lot of wins, tons of wins,
multiple championships, driven by the biggest names Petty Waltrip, Earnhardt,
(24:13):
Jeff Gordon, Jimmy Johnson. The list goes on. Its racing
success absolutely elevated its image, even if the street car
didn't always match the track car's performance. Hashtag tack tag
tag CC. Why is it underappreciated as a muscle car?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Okay, so let's circle back to that core question. First
Gen could beat a vet NASCAR legend for decades. Why
isn't the Mighty Carlo usually mentioned in the same breath
as say, a gto or a charger When people talk
muscle cars, why is it still kind of underappreciated in
that specific way.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
It's a great question, and it comes down to a
few things. I think, first, perception and marketing. It was
deliberately marketed as a luxury car first. That automatically set
it apart from cars like the Chevelle SS or the Roadrunner,
which were sold purely on performance, on being aggressive stre machines.
The Monte Carlo's image was softer, more refined, even when
(25:04):
it had the SS four to fifty four under the hood, So.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
The elegant rapper kind of hid the muscle in a way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Then there's the rarity of the really hot ones. Like
we said, fewer than six thousand SS four to fifty
fours were ever built, compared to tens, even hundreds of
thousands of other muscle cars. It just wasn't common enough
to become that kind of icon for the masses. Out
of sight, out of mind based some and then you
have the later generations. As the car evolved got less powerful,
(25:30):
eventually went front wheel drive. That diluted the overall performance
image for a lot of people. They remember the eighties
V six version or the nineties FWD version, and forget
about that fire breathing first gen.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So the later history kind of overshadowed the early muscle
I think so in.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
The general public's perception. And finally, there's collector priorities. When
people think GM muscle, they often default to Chevelle, gto
maybe Cutlass four forty two. Those cars have the more established,
purely aggressive muscle car image.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Even though Monte Carlo SS four fifty four was basically
mechanically identical to a Chevelle SS four.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Fifty four pretty much same engine, same frame underneath for
the most part, but the Chevelle looks more like the
stereotypical muscle car. So historically, collectors have often paid more
for the Chevelle.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Which means the Monte Carlo SS four fifty four might
be a relative bargain exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
That's the key takeaway for enthusiasts today. You can often
get nearly identical big block performance, plus a more luxurious
interior and unique styling for less money than a comparable
Chevelle SS. It's a seriously undervalued classic, a true hidden
gem in the market. Hashtag tag tag tad duff. The
Monte Carlo's unique appeal and lasting legacy.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So when you boil it all down, what's the Monte
Carlo's unique appeal, what's its lasting legacy?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I think it's that blend, that unique combination of luxury
and muscle. It offered something different, a refined ride, comfort style,
but with the option for serious, serious power. Not many
cars pulled that off quite the same way.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
It was incredibly totally.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
It proved to wear so many hats, upscale, cruiser, NASCAR, champ,
movie star. It adapted, it excelled in different roles, always
had that certain presence.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
It was never just one thing.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Never it was a bridge between worlds maybe luxury and performance,
street and track. It evolved with the times, face challenges,
but always kept a core identity. That refusal to be
pigeonholed is its strength.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And what about collectibility today? Which ones are people looking for?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Well, the first gen car is definitely, especially seventy seventy two,
and the SS four fifty four is the holy grail obviously.
Also the fourth gen SS models from the eighties are
hugely popular that NASCAR look. They're relatively affordable, fun to drive.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Is it hard to find parts for them?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Actually, that's a big plus. They built four point four
million Monte Carlos over the years, and they shared so
many parts with Chevelles, Malabis, regals, cutlasses, mechanical parts, suspension bits,
even some trim pieces are relatively easy to find and
often interchangeable, makes owning and restoring one much more feasible
than some rarer.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
So the early ones are gaining value definitely.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Those seventy seventy two's, especially the SS four to fifty fours,
are getting serious attention now as people realize what they are.
Prices are climbing steadily. The eighties SS models are great
entry points, good for modifying, and even the later FWDSS cars,
particularly the V eight and supercharged ones, have a following
for people who want a more modern classic with that
NASCAR vibe. There's kind of a Monti Carlo for everyone
(28:24):
hashtag howtag outro.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So there you have it, the Chevrolet Monte Carlo. What
a ride, huh? From elegant luxury coup that could surprise
a Corvette to a dominant NASCAR legend, navigating decades of change,
always balancing that line between performance and prestige.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
It really is an amazing story of adaptability, sophisticated, one minute,
absolute powerhouse the next. It just refused to fit neatly
in any box.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Exactly, which maybe is a good takeaway for you listening
right now. Think about things, cars, ideas, whatever, that don't
fit simple labels. How many cool things do we overlook
because they don't fit our expectations?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah? Great point. The Monte Carlo story really leaves you
wondering what other underestimated muscle is out there, hiding in
plain sight, just waiting for us to see its full
potential beyond the easy definition. It's a fantastic car and
maybe a good way to think about things in general.
What if we told you there was a car, an
American classic that on surface it looked like this elegant
you know, luxury coup.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Yeah, like a pure boulevard cruiser, comfort prestige.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Exactly, But secretly it had the heart of a real
muscle car. I mean, a car that could actually smoke
a Corvette back in the day.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
It sounds kind of like a myth, doesn't it, But no,
it's absolutely true. It's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Actually, it really is how one car could be marketed
for luxury but packed that kind of punch.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
That's the thing. It wasn't just like a marketing angle.
It's sort of the core tension of the Monte Carlo.
This unexpected power under this elegant skin.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That duality. Yeah, that's what makes it so interesting.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
It just refuses to be put in one box, you know.
It makes the history really compelling.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
You're spot on that mix of contradiction and sheer capability.
So today we're doing a deep dive into the Chevrolet
Monte Carlo, a car that honestly gets overlooked a lot
and misunderstood.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Definitely. People might know it as like a smooth cruiser
or maybe a NASCAR legend.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Or they saw it in a movie, right, But its
identity is just so much richer, so much more complex
than most people realize. It's a real automotive chameleon.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So our mission here is basically to unpack that whole
fascinating journey. We'll look at its origins, which were pretty ambitious,
a personal luxury car but with serious performance potential, and.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Then track how it changed over the years, yeah, adapting to.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
The time exactly, and look at its legacy wide indoors.
But the whole time, we really want to spotlight why
that muscle aspect just doesn't get the attention it deserves.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And how we'll do this, as always is pull the
best insights from a whole range of sources, give you
the shortcut to really understanding this icon. Lots of surprising facts,
cool detailed.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So yeah, let's get into it. Hashtag tab tag I
the genesis of a personal luxury coup with Muscle nineteen
seventy nineteen seventy two first generation.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Okay, so to really get the Monty Carlos story, we
got to rewind back to the late nineteen sixties. It
was such an interesting time for cars, kind of transitional,
wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, oh, absolute utely. The whole landscape was shifting. The
pure muscle car craze was maybe starting to peak, but
people still wanted something exciting, not just a boring sedan.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Right, They wanted something a bit more refined.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, but still cool exactly, sophistication and sporty appeal. That
was the growing demand a car that felt luxurious, comfortable,
you know, a nice ride, but still looked dynamic, felt engaging.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
And that really gave birth to the whole personal luxury segment.
It was about expressing yourself, having something a cut above
the average.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Without going full sports car like a giant Cadillac and.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
GM saw this coming. I mean they always did, right,
They had the Pontiac Grand Prix, which got that sleek
redesigned in sixty nine and was just flying off the.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Lots huge success. But Chevrolet, they didn't really have a
direct shot at the Ford's Thunderbird, which basically invented this
whole category. Chevy needed something specific for their lineup.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
So how do you launch a new car like that,
especially when your sister brand, Pontiac is already killing it
in a similar space.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, Chevy's play wasn't just let's make a comfy two door.
It was about carving out a distinct identity for the
Monte Carlo, aiming for someone who wanted that refinement, that quiet.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Ride, but still wanted it to look sharp, elegant.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Right and crucially, they aimed for a more accessible price
point than say a Thunderbird or even maybe the Grand Prix.
That widened the appeal significantly.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And boom. September eighteenth, nineteen sixty nine, they introduced it
for the nineteen seventy model year, and the name itself
Monty Carlo m Monaco pretty clear signal right, upscale, glamorous.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
No mistaking the aspiration there. They weren't trying to be subtle.
This was meant to feel more special than a regular Chevelle.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Or Impala, and the marketing slogan kind of nailed it.
A personal luxury coup that offered a lot more car
than it has to be.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I love that line. It suggests something extra, something indulgent.
And the price base price three and twenty three dollars,
that was really key.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
How does that compare to like the average car? Back then?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Average car price in nineteen seventy was around thirty five
hundred dollars, so The Monte Carlo offered this step up
in style and features for less than the average that
made luxury feel attainable, huge part of its initial success
hashtag hashtag see distinctive design and upscale features.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Okay, let's talk design, because this is where the Money
Carlo really stood out. It wasn't just you know, a
Chevelle with fancier trim. This car had its.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Own vibe totally. It was built on GM's A Special platform. Now,
for folks listening, a platform is like the cars skeleton,
the chassis, the core bits. The A Special was a
stretched version of the regular, a body shared only with
the Pontiac grum Prix. That stretch was critical.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
How so what did that do for the look?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It dictated that profile, that long, almost regal look, had
one hundred and sixteen inch wheel base, same as the
four door Chevelle. Actually, but, and this is important, four
inches longer than the two door chevell Ah.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Okay, so that extra lengths really made a different.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Huge difference. And combine that with the hood. Oh man,
that hood sixty nine inches long, the longest hood ever
put on a Chevrolet.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
At the time. Sixty nine inches. That's incredible. No, wonder
it looks so distinctive, so stretched out, almost graceful.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You really needed some space to park that thing. And
you can see the influences too. Sources point to the
Cadillac El Dorado the peak of personal luxury then. Monte
Carlo was definitely aiming high and.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
The details were just perfect for that image. That chrome
grill with.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
The tiny squares, yeah, seven hundred and twenty of them,
really intricate, and the Knight's crest emblem, that Corinthian helmet
gave it a touch of class heritage.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Round headlights and chrome bezels, classic look. And then the
short trunk to balance out that enormous hood. Visually, that
just worked.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And the inside it delivered on that luxury promise. Simulated
wood trim, they actually modeled it after Rolls Race ELM trim.
Can you believe that in a Chevy.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Wow, it's aiming high.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Plush seats, really comfortable and you could load it up
with options, power windows, AC still a big deal then.
And that Landau vinyl roof. Explain the Landau roof again, right,
It's where the back part of the roof is covered
in vinyl, often with like a chrome strip. It mimicked
the look of a convertible's folded top, gave it an
extra touch of elegance without being a full convertible. Really
(06:07):
popular style cube. Back then, it just screamed luxury hashtag
tag tag tag d the overlooked musclecar credentials.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Okay, elegant, luxurious, crazy, long hood, fancy interior check chick chick.
But here's the twist. Here's where it gets really interesting
and why we're calling it overlooked muscle Underneath all that
fancy trim.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, despite the luxury marketing, that first gen Monti Carlo
had serious performance potential hiding in there. This is where
the story flips.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Absolutely. The base engine wasn't some wimpy six cylinder. It
was a three hundred and fifty cubic inch V eight
yeah five point seven leaders the turbo fire small block,
and even with just.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
A basic two barrel carburetor, it made two hundred and
fifty horsepower gross horsepower we should clarify it, and three
hundred and forty five pound feet of.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Torque, which for a car marketed as a luxury cruiser
back then is actually pretty stout right.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Definitely not sluggish at all, more than enough to move
that car with authority, a really strong starting point.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And that was just the start. You could option up
to two different four hundred cubic inch V eights if
you wanted more power.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
But the real monster, the one that makes people do
a double take, the SS four to five four package.
This is the hidden beast. We hinted at tell.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Us about the SS four to fifty four. This is
the core of the muscle argument.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh yeah, this is where it roars. You got the
massive four hundred and fifty four cubic inch big block
V eight seven point four leaders of pure American iron.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Okay, how much power are we talking.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
We're talking three hundred and sixty horse power and a
stump pulling three hundred and eighty pound feet of torque.
Just imagine that kind of force in a car designed
to look elegant and ride smooth.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
It completely messes with your perception of the car.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Totally defies expectations. Supercar level of power basically wrapped in
the sophisticated package.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It wasn't just an engine swap, right, It was a
whole package deal exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
It wasn't just jamming a big engine in there. That
four to fifty four was only available with the heavy
duty turbohydramatic three speed automatic really robust trends.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Mission built to handle the power, and you.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Got a heavy duty suspension tune for performance, plus automatic
level control for the rear suspension so it stayed level
even when you hammered it. Proper performance engineering.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And the price for all this, get this.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Just four hundred and twenty dollars extra over the base model.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Four hundred and twenty bucks.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
That's it, which even back then was incredible value. Think
about that today, getting that kind of massive engine and
performance upgrade for maybe what thirty three hundred dollars in
today's money, insane bang for your buck.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So how did it actually perform? Did the magazines test it?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Oh yeah, Motor Trend tested one zero to sixty and
seven seconds flat quarter mile and fourteen point nine seconds
at ninety two miles per hour?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Okay, fourteen point nine. How does that stack up against?
Like other muscle cars, a Chevelle Ss.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It was right there with them. It could hang with
and sometimes even beat cars like the Chevelle Ss, which
had a much more aggressive image.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And here's the absolute kicker, the thing that makes you
just shake your head motor tren found the Monte Carlo
SS four fifty four was actually faster in the quarter
mile than the Corvette by a tenth of a second.
The Corvette, Chevy's flagship sports car beaten by this, this
personal luxury coup. How is that even possible? And why
isn't that the headline story about the Monte Carlo.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
That's the paradox, isn't it. It's phenomenal performance, but it's
still kind of this hidden gem. Part of it is rarity.
They didn't build that many.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
How rare are we talking?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Only three eight hundred twenty three in nineteen seventy and
even fewer in seventy one, just one nine hundred and nineteen.
That's tiny numbers compared to other muscle cars. So they
just weren't as visible.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Makes sense. Hard to become an eyiconft nobody sees you exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And you still hear those rumors right about the LS six, Yeah,
the super.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
High performance four to fifty four, the four hundred and
twenty five horse power. One did any Monty Carlos actually
get that?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
The legend persists, but official Chevrolet records say no. The
LS six was strictly Corvette only. But hey, it adds
to the mystique, doesn't it. The Standard ESS four to
fifty four was already a.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Monster, true, So why did they kill the SS four
fifty four after all the two years nineteen seventy one
was the last year for it.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
It really came down to marketing strategy mostly. Chevrolet decided
they wanted to push the money Carlo firmly into the
luxury camp less muscle, more plush, so.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
The performance was almost inconvenient for the image they wanted.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Kinda yeah. Plus, you had emissions regulations starting to bite,
the first rumblings about fuel economy. The writing was sort
of on the wall for those big thirsty engines. They
pulled the plug on the SS package. Hashtag tag EE
sales success and shifting tides.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Okay, so the SS four fifty four was short lived,
but overall, how did the first gen Monty carlos sell
I know? There was a strike early on?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, a big one hundred and thirty six day strike
at the Fisher body plant delayed things initially could have
been bad for a new model, but no, it was
a smash hit right away.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Really, how big a hit?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Nineteen seventy its first year, they sold almost one hundred
and forty six thousand of them. Wow, and get this,
that was triple the sales of the Ford Thunderbird that year.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Triple the Thunderbird. Okay, so people absolutely loved this blend
of style and you know available power.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
They really did, and sales kept climbing. Peaked over one
hundred and eighty thousand by nineteen seventy two. It's a
dominant player.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
With that peak. Nineteen seventy two also marked a turning point,
didn't it. The whole muscle car era was starting to fade.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, the storm clouds were gathering. The nineteen seventy three
oil crisis was just around the corner, going to shock everyone.
Emission standards were getting way tighter. The focus was shifting
fast from horsepower to miles per gallon.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And that brings us to something really important, something that
confuses people looking back at old car specks. The horse
power ratings changed in seventy two, right.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Critically important point. Yes, they switched from gross horsepower ratings
to SAE net ratings.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Explain the difference because the numbers dropped grastically on paper.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Right, So that same three point fifty v eight that
was two hundred and fifty gross horse power in seventy one.
Suddenly in seventy two it's rated at one hundred and
sixty five net horse power. The four fifty four dropped
from three hundred and sixty gross to two hundred and
seventy net.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Looks like a massive power cutnight, but it.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Wasn't quite that simple. Gross horsepower was measured under ideal
conditions and gen on a stand, no accessories, no real exhaust,
kind of optimistic. Net horsepower was measured more realistically as
installed in the car with all the accessories, air cleaner exhaust, everything.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So net was closer to the real world power you actually.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Got exactly now. Power was starting to decrease due to
early emissions controls, lower compression ratios, things like that, but
the rating change itself made the drop look much much
bigger than it actually was. In some cases. It's key
context for comparing cars from before and after seventy two
hashtag tag TiO Navigating the malays Era and downsizing nineteen
(12:38):
seventy three, nineteen eighty eight, Second, third, and fourth generations.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Okay, so the first gen ends on a high note
sales wise, but with those storm clouds gathering and that
confusing horse power change. Then we had the second generation
seventy three to seventy seven, and this is deep into
what people now call the Malayse.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Era, right, oh yeah, firmly in the Malay's era. This
generation really shows the industry struggling, grappling with the oil
crisis fallout, much tighter emissions rules. Engineers were really fighting
in uphill battle.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Performance just wasn't the priority anymore, not at all.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It was fuel economy, emissions, safety, Those were the driving forces.
Cars got heavier, oft and slower. It was a tough
time to make exciting cars.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
And the Monte Carlo changed quite a bit for seventy three.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
It did new body built on the regular a body
platform now shared at the Chavelle and others. Lost that
unique a special base.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
And the look it got bigger.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Right well, definitely bulkier, heavier, look those big sort of
swoopy fenders, the colonnade style roof with the fixed rear
side windows. It looked more formal, less sleek than the
first gen. Still elegant maybe, but different, heavier, and.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
The performance image took a.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Big step back. The SS trim was gone completely, replaced
by a custom package clear signal we're focusing on luxury now,
not speed.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
What about the engines? Could you still get a big
block you could?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Surprisingly, the four to fifty four V eight stuck around
as an option through nineteen seventy five, but its power
was way down. Catalytic converters came in, other emission stuff.
They were really choking those engines.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
So the focus was luxury, but the engine options started getting.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, this era saw some strange stuff. You had the
standard three fifty V eight, a four hundred V eight,
but then starting in seventy eight, they offered an Oldsmobile
diesel V eight, a diesel Carl a diesel my Carlo. Wow,
that really shows how desperate they were for fuel economy
numbers totally. And you had various V sixes popping up too.
From a thundering four fifty four just a few years
earlier to offering a diesel quite the shift shows the
(14:33):
turmoil of the times.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
But the luxury touches remained.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh yeah, Landau roofs were still huge swivel bucket seats.
Those were cool, made getting in and out easier in
those big coops plush interiors. It doubled down on being
a comfortable cruiser, and it kind.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Of cemented its place competing against cars like the Chrysler
Cordoba right rich Crenthian leather exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
It really leaned into that personal luxury fight. But in
doing so, it kind of lost that muscle car connection
from the first gen almost completely became a different car
in people's minds.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
And here's a weird fact. By seventy seven, the Monte
Carlo was actually bigger than the newly downsized Chevy Caprice.
The full sized car.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Isn't that wild? Shows how bloated some of these cubes
got even as other cars were shrinking, A real product
of its time.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Okay, so after that bulky second gen we get the
third generation seventy eight to eighty, and now downsizing wasn't optional,
it was mandatory.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Right absolutely. This was the era of cafe corporate average
fuel economy standards. Automakers had to make their fleets more
efficient or face big fines. So everything got smaller.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
And the Mandi Carlo shrunk too.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yep, moved to the smaller G body platform shared with
the Grand Prix Cutlass Regal, much lighter, more compact, a
necessary move.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
How did this staling change.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Smoother lines, more aerodynamic, less fussy than the seventy three
to seventy seven cars. Still pretty boxy by today's standards,
but definitely cleaner, more conservative, maybe a bit anonymous compared
to the first.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And engines still chasing efficiency.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Oh yeah. V sixs became much more common. Small V
eights were still around, but performance was absolutely secondary. Mileage
was king.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
And how to do in the market. Imports were getting
really popular.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Then it was tougher. The Monte Carlo, like a lot
of American cars, struggled a bit to stand out against smaller,
often more fuel efficient imports from Japan and Europe. It
was a challenging time for the traditional American coup.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
But then, just when you think the Moni Carlo story
is kind of fizzling out into efficient, boxy anonymity, the
fourth generation arrives eighty one to eighty eight, and something
exciting happens in eighty three.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
The Yess returns. Yeah, this was a big deal, a
real resurgence of spirit for the Monte Carlo.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Now it wasn't the SS four fifty four kind of
performance right now?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Definitely not that level of brute force. Now, this SS
had the three hundred and five cubic inch V eight
The five point zero Leader made about one hundred and
eighty horse power, modest by today's standards, but respectable for
the time.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
But it was more than just the engine, wasn't it right?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Crucially, it got a performance tuned suspension, better handling, specific
axle ratio. It was much more engaging to drive, a
real step back towards sportiness.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
And the look that fourth gen SS, especially the later
ones with the slope nose, yeah, they just screamed NASCAR totally.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
The styling was directly inspired by the race cars that
air Coop designed with the sloped rear glass. Wasn't just
for looks, it was amuligation for NASCAR. They built road
cars that looked like the race cars because the Monte
Carlo was dominating on the track.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
It had been Chevy's main NASCAR weapon for years by then, hadn't.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
It since seventy one? Basically, that original long wheelbase and
hood design just worked incredibly well for stock car racing,
great stability, good aerodynamics for the time. It was the
car to beat for much of the seventies and eighties.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And driven by absolute legends.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Icons Richard Petty Daryl Waltrip and of course Dale Earnhardt Sr.
The Intimidator. He became synonymous with the Chevy Monte Carlo
countless wins championships. It cemented the car's legacy in racing.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Seeing that car win every Sunday death only boosted its image.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
No question. And this fourth genss even with the three
ZHO five, it had that vibe. It could, you know,
smoke the tires as they say. It brought back some
of that first gen muscle car feeling, even if it
was an eighties interpretation. It felt fun again.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Became kind of the quintessential eighties American muscle car for
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It really did. But like before, the era came to
an end. Nineteen eighty eight was the last year for
the rear wheel drive Monte Carlo, replaced.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
By the Lumina Coupe right front wheel drive YEAP.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
GM was shifting everything intermediate to front wheel drive. Muscle
car sales were down overall safety and emissions rules were
getting tougher. It was the end of the line for
that traditional layout for the Monte Carlo. A bit sad
really hashtag taed tag three the front wheel drive era
and final chapters nineteen ninety five to two thousand and
seven fifth and sixth generations.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
So after eighty eight, the money Carlo name disappeared for
a bit. How long was the gap?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Six years? Quite a hiatus, felt like it might be
gone for good, but then it came back in nineteen
ninety five for the fifth generation.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
But it was different, very different, completely.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Different animal front wheel drive now based on the Chevy
lumined platform, the GMW body which underpinned like half of
GM's cars back then.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
It felt like a big shift from its rear wheel
drive routs.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Huge shift reflected where the industry was going, packaging efficiency,
more interior room for the size, shared components to save.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Costs, and what were the options trim levels engines.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
You had the basic LS trim and a sportier Z
thirty four. Engines were all V sixes. The LS got
a three point one leader about one hundred and sixty
horse power, decent commuter.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
In the Z thirty four.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
That was the performance one relatively speaking. Yeah, it had
a three point four liter V six making around two
hundred and ten two hundred and fifteen horse power, so
not a tire shredder, but definitely pepier decent performance for
a mid sized front wheel drive coup in the mid nineties.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Was it trying to be a muscle car?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Not really, No, it was more of a stylish, comfortable,
reasonably quick personal coup for the era. Different mission.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And how did people react to the name coming back
on FWD cart Did it sell?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
It actually did okay, initially sold over forty thousand ninety
five showed the name still had recognition, still had appeal
even with the drive train change. People liked the styling okay.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Then the sixth and final generation launched for the two
thousand model year, big styling changes here, right, tried to
connect back to the past.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, they really leaned into the heritage look. New headlights,
more aggressive, But the big thing was the rear end,
the tay lights, the shape of the trunk lid. It
was deliberately designed to echo the look of the popular
seventy seventy two models. A very conscious retronaut trying.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
To recapture some of that old magic. Did the SS
trim come back strong?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It did come back, but initially it wasn't earth shattering.
Started with the three point eight Leader V six about
two hundred horsepower, good solid engine, but not exactly thrilling.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But then they added boost yep.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
In two thousand and four they offered a supercharged version
of that three point eight leader V six bumped it
up to two hundred and forty horse power. Now we're talking.
That made a real difference, gave the FWDSS some genuine kick.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And then the really big news for performance fans. For
the last couple of years.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
V eight power to yes. For two thousand and six
and two thousand and seven they did something pretty wild
for a FWD car. They stuffed a five point three
liters V eight under the hood.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
A V eight Monte Carlo. Again, how much power?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Three hundred and three horsepower? First V eight and a
Monte Carlo since the eighties a really potent engine.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
How did a front wheel drive car handle three hundred
and three horse power? Must have been tricky.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
It definitely had its challenges. Yeah, torque steer could be
an issue if you just stomped on it. But GM
put a lot of effort into the chassis, tuning, traction control,
and honestly, it was quick, really quick.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
How quick are we talking?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Believe it or not? That V eight Monte Carlo SS
was the second fastest car in Chevrolet's lineup at the time.
Only the Corvette was quicker.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Wow, So even as a FWD car, it still had
some serious performance credit.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The end, it really did. It showed Chevy was still
trying to inject excitement into the nameplate, pushing the limits
of that platform.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And the NASCAR connection was still strong in this era,
very strong.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
The styling continued to draw inspiration from the race cars,
especially Dale Earnhardt's famous number three three. They leaned into
it heavily with special editions, the Intimidator Edition, Tony Stewart editions,
celebrating that racing heritage was a key part of its identity.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Then so if it had VA power again, looked cool,
had the NASCAR connection? Why did he get canceled in
two thousand and seven.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Ultimately, sales just kept declining. The market for big two
door Coons was shrinking rapidly. People were moving to Sedan's SUVs, practical.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Stuff, and the Camaro was coming back soon right.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Exactly, The re real drive Camaro was on the horizon
to be Chevy's affordable performance coup So the Monte Carlos
time just ran out. End of an era after almost
forty years, so that.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Covers the production history, the ups and downs. But the
Monte Carlos story is bigger than just assembly lines, isn't it.
It really became part of the culture.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Oh absolutely. It had this cool factor, this blend of
style and sometimes menace that just worked on screen.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
And training day right. Yeah, Denzel's character driving that beat
up seventy.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Perfect car for that character, added this layer of gritty realism,
street cred. And then you see a pristine seventy one
show up in The Fast and the Furious Tokyo Drift
shows its timeless appeal crossing genres and.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Didn't one show up on a game show?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah? Fun fact, a restored seventy two Monte Carlo was
a prize on The Price Is Right back in twenty twelve,
which is kind of amazing. Shows its broad recognition in.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
A music too. Seems like it popped up a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Especially in hip hop and rock videos. It often symbolized
like individuality, maybe a bit of rebellion, just a cool
looking American car with presents, and while it was cruising
through pop culture, it was absolutely crushing it on the racetrack.
It's fascinating how it had these two lives.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Luxury car on the street, absolute beast.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
On the track pretty much. It dominated NASCAR in two
long stretches seventy one to eighty nine basically, and then
again from ninety five to a seven when.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
It came back. Why was it so good for NASCAR?
Was it just the engine?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Not just the engine? Especially those early ones. That long
wheelbase gave its stability, The long hood helped with weight distribution,
and the kape, especially after aerodynamic tweaks over the years,
just worked really well on the big oval tracks. Teams
loved it. I do a lot of wins, tons of wins,
multiple championships, driven by the biggest names Petty Waltrip, Earnhardt,
(24:13):
Jeff Gordon, Jimmy Johnson. The list goes on. Its racing
success absolutely elevated its image, even if the street car
didn't always match the track car's performance. Hashtag tack tag
tag CC. Why is it underappreciated as a muscle car?
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Okay, so let's circle back to that core question. First
Gen could beat a vet NASCAR legend for decades. Why
isn't the Mighty Carlo usually mentioned in the same breath
as say, a gto or a charger When people talk
muscle cars, why is it still kind of underappreciated in
that specific way.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
It's a great question, and it comes down to a
few things. I think, first, perception and marketing. It was
deliberately marketed as a luxury car first. That automatically set
it apart from cars like the Chevelle SS or the Roadrunner,
which were sold purely on performance, on being aggressive stre machines.
The Monte Carlo's image was softer, more refined, even when
(25:04):
it had the SS four to fifty four under the hood, So.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
The elegant rapper kind of hid the muscle in a way. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Then there's the rarity of the really hot ones. Like
we said, fewer than six thousand SS four to fifty
fours were ever built, compared to tens, even hundreds of
thousands of other muscle cars. It just wasn't common enough
to become that kind of icon for the masses. Out
of sight, out of mind based some and then you
have the later generations. As the car evolved got less powerful,
(25:30):
eventually went front wheel drive. That diluted the overall performance
image for a lot of people. They remember the eighties
V six version or the nineties FWD version, and forget
about that fire breathing first gen.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So the later history kind of overshadowed the early muscle
I think so in.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
The general public's perception. And finally, there's collector priorities. When
people think GM muscle, they often default to Chevelle, gto
maybe Cutlass four forty two. Those cars have the more established,
purely aggressive muscle car image.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Even though Monte Carlo SS four fifty four was basically
mechanically identical to a Chevelle SS four.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Fifty four pretty much same engine, same frame underneath for
the most part, but the Chevelle looks more like the
stereotypical muscle car. So historically, collectors have often paid more
for the Chevelle.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Which means the Monte Carlo SS four fifty four might
be a relative bargain exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
That's the key takeaway for enthusiasts today. You can often
get nearly identical big block performance, plus a more luxurious
interior and unique styling for less money than a comparable
Chevelle SS. It's a seriously undervalued classic, a true hidden
gem in the market. Hashtag tag tag tad duff. The
Monte Carlo's unique appeal and lasting legacy.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So when you boil it all down, what's the Monte
Carlo's unique appeal, what's its lasting legacy?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
I think it's that blend, that unique combination of luxury
and muscle. It offered something different, a refined ride, comfort style,
but with the option for serious, serious power. Not many
cars pulled that off quite the same way.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
It was incredibly totally.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
It proved to wear so many hats, upscale, cruiser, NASCAR, champ,
movie star. It adapted, it excelled in different roles, always
had that certain presence.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
It was never just one thing.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Never it was a bridge between worlds maybe luxury and performance,
street and track. It evolved with the times, face challenges,
but always kept a core identity. That refusal to be
pigeonholed is its strength.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And what about collectibility today? Which ones are people looking for?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Well, the first gen car is definitely, especially seventy seventy two,
and the SS four fifty four is the holy grail obviously.
Also the fourth gen SS models from the eighties are
hugely popular that NASCAR look. They're relatively affordable, fun to drive.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Is it hard to find parts for them?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Actually, that's a big plus. They built four point four
million Monte Carlos over the years, and they shared so
many parts with Chevelles, Malabis, regals, cutlasses, mechanical parts, suspension bits,
even some trim pieces are relatively easy to find and
often interchangeable, makes owning and restoring one much more feasible
than some rarer.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
So the early ones are gaining value definitely.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Those seventy seventy two's, especially the SS four to fifty fours,
are getting serious attention now as people realize what they are.
Prices are climbing steadily. The eighties SS models are great
entry points, good for modifying, and even the later FWDSS cars,
particularly the V eight and supercharged ones, have a following
for people who want a more modern classic with that
NASCAR vibe. There's kind of a Monti Carlo for everyone
(28:24):
hashtag howtag outro.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
So there you have it, the Chevrolet Monte Carlo. What
a ride, huh? From elegant luxury coup that could surprise
a Corvette to a dominant NASCAR legend, navigating decades of change,
always balancing that line between performance and prestige.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
It really is an amazing story of adaptability, sophisticated, one minute,
absolute powerhouse the next. It just refused to fit neatly
in any box.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Exactly, which maybe is a good takeaway for you listening
right now. Think about things, cars, ideas, whatever, that don't
fit simple labels. How many cool things do we overlook
because they don't fit our expectations?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah? Great point. The Monte Carlo story really leaves you
wondering what other underestimated muscle is out there, hiding in
plain sight, just waiting for us to see its full
potential beyond the easy definition. It's a fantastic car and
maybe a good way to think about things in general.
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