December 24, 2025 • 23 mins
In this special Christmas episode, we delve into the festive spirit by exploring the greatest Christmas movie ever made -- Batman Returns. We look at Tim Burton’s unique direction, the evolution of characters like Penguin and Catwoman, and the critical receptions of both fans and executives.
00:00 Welcome to the Christmas Roundup
01:13 The Greatest Christmas Movie Ever Made
04:30 Multiple Returns
09:34 Casting and Production Insights
11:05 Controversies and Criticisms
14:57 The Evolution of The Penguin and Catwoman
22:09 Final Thoughts and Christmas Wishes
Father Malone
FatherMalone71@gmail.com
Patreon.com/FatherMalone
00:00 Welcome to the Christmas Roundup
01:13 The Greatest Christmas Movie Ever Made
04:30 Multiple Returns
09:34 Casting and Production Insights
11:05 Controversies and Criticisms
14:57 The Evolution of The Penguin and Catwoman
22:09 Final Thoughts and Christmas Wishes
Father Malone
FatherMalone71@gmail.com
Patreon.com/FatherMalone
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Welcome mag Midnight viewers to a special Christmas roundup. I'm
Father Malone, and with me is the festive pug straight
from the North Pole, South Pole. It's not Santa, that's
the thing. Oh that's where Jed, the dog who plays
the thing at the beginning of the film is located.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Whether you celebrate Hanukkah or Christmas, or Kwanza or Ramadan
or to Life Day, it is a time of joy
in every other year but this one. Although nineteen forty
one must have been an interesting Christmas, so let's make
this interesting year of our interesting times a little more joyous,
a little more Christmas. And to that end, I've chosen
to focus on and recommend the greatest Christmas movie ever
(01:18):
made from nineteen ninety two. Here's the trailer.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I've been down the angel all that's time for me
to a cent from the sewers of Gotham. A new
villain emerges. You didn't invite me, oh, I cry the
(01:51):
movetops of Gotham. The perfect enemy comes to life. I
am catulis hermy fro Yeah, and the only one who
(02:17):
can save this city is a creature of the night
they stood.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
We had something together we do.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
While she craves a romance, she can sink her claws
into you headnot a girl like he plots a foul
rain of destruction. My dear penguins, Tik stop man. That
time I've come and I call out you have above
(03:41):
Gotham lose its greatest hero.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's right, you tinsel covered motherfucker's Batman returns. What that's
not even the best Batman movie? Fuck you put that
in your stocking? Is Diehard of Chris Movie, Yes, Gremlins, Yes,
the Reth Yes, Kiss, Kiss, Bang Bang, lethal Weapon, long Kiss,
good Night, The Last Boy, Scout, anything by Shane Black,
(04:10):
basically Nightmare before Christmas. That one seems obvious, doesn't it?
Yet somehow I have to hear those fucking songs in October.
Don't get your snowflakes in my fake blood, Tim tim Burton.
If you're gonna mash up the holidays, Halloween needs to
invade Christmas and then knock the other way around. And
that is exactly what we have here. Let me tell
(04:31):
you what a score Batman nineteen eighty nine was for
US comic book fiends. Once it came out, you could
say the name Batman out loud and not have some
dingus immediately shout no no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no Batman, because that was the level of interaction most
people had with the character. Can't be silly and for kids.
To be fair, that was the general public's view on
(04:53):
comic books as a whole. They couldn't have known that
by the time Tim Burton got time. They couldn't have
known that by the time Tim Burton got to saying
action for the first time, readers of Batman had seen
him training with Assassins. The Joker had been given a
tragic and twisted backstory, Dick Grayson had left and become
night Wing, and thanks to Frank Miller, we'd seen not
only a dark future for Bruce Wayne, but we got
(05:16):
a reimagined origin in Batman Year one, so not just
adult comics, but actually mature comics. That same public was
unprepared for an industrialized Gotham city that drew inspiration from
every decade in discipline, or a Joker who's grinning rictuses
literally carved into his face. Though these surprises were not unwelcome,
(05:37):
pulling in four hundred million dollars off of its fifty
million dollar budget, becoming the fifth highest grossing film of
all time at that time, not to mention the merchandising.
You couldn't turn around without seeing someone sporting a bat
symbol somewhere on their person. Clothing and posters and toys
and happy meals. Warner Brothers ends up learning a lesson
that twentieth century Fox had been taught by George Lucas
(06:00):
in the nineteen seventies. You can make more with the
spinoff products than you can the actual film. This will
be a problem later, because right now Warners is a
glow with the success of Batman, and plans are immediately
set in motion for a sequel. Sam Ham, Batman's credited screenwriter,
is brought back for its initial draft, which would have
found Batman tangling with Harvey Dent in his transformation into
(06:23):
two Face, a plot thread that had already been seated
with Billy d Williams appearance in the first film, But
Warners was insistent that the Penguin or the Riddler be
the next antagonist, given the fact that nobody knows who
the fuck two Face is. Ham chose the Penguin, Burton
added Catwoman, and while Ham is given the credit for
the Christmas setting, I suspect this was actually Burton, given
(06:45):
that Burton had made his own pass at a Batman's
screenplay some five years before that included a tree lighting
scene where the Joker launched that Christmas tree into the
stratosphere like a fuck in a rocket. Ham's script for
Batman Returns had Catwoman and Penguin teaming up against Batman,
while its overall plot concerned a massive treasure hunt and
uncovering Gotham's dark history and the Wayne Family's place in it,
(07:09):
none of which was much interest to Tim Burton, who
had by then focused on the modern day fairy tale
Edward Scissorhands, and that was the fundamental stumbling block in
the first film. I read more than one interview with
Sam Ham at the time where he kept reiterating that
we didn't want to make this a normal thing. You
didn't want people saying, Oh, there's the Policeman, there's the Milkman,
(07:30):
there's the Batman. Actually, Sam, quite a few of us did,
including Tim Burton enter screenwriter Daniel Waters. He detracted Burton's
attention with his nineteen eighty eight dark comedy masterpiece Heathers.
Waters brought an absurdist almost nihilistic viewpoint to Batman, which
paired nicely with Burton's idea of a Gotham fueled by
(07:51):
trauma out when Vicky Vale and basically any narrative connections
to the first film and in came an almost dreamlike
reality where rich parents a bend and their babies into
rivers that lead to sewers that lead to a life
raised among penguins, where a herd of cats can resurrect
you after you've fallen. Thirty stories to the hard pavement below.
In other words, comic book a heightened reality than our own,
(08:16):
one in which I do not need to know that
Batman's tall bat ears are in fact antennae, the parts
of which he's outsourced from shell companies, so his secret
identity won't become public. Blah blah blah, hit the fucking
bat signal already. Waters script was a vast improvement. Although
a little more snarky and occasionally one linery than I
(08:37):
prefer it still wasn't Tim burtony enough, and when Daniel
Waters refused to add that extra splash of a whimsy,
he was replaced with then go to WonderBoy script Doctor
Wesley Strick. He was more than happy to graft on
a subplot about Gotham's first born in an entire penguin
colony outfitted with tiny missiles and tiny metal hats. I'm
(08:59):
going to sign with Daniel Waters on that Michael Keaton
doubling his salary and actually getting the proper credit at
the start of this film pulled back hard on the
script's portrayal of Batman, reducing dialogue to the bare minimum.
In fact, he, like Burton, felt that Batman should be
a piece of this story and not its focus, which
is one of the main criticisms you hear about this flick.
(09:20):
There's hardly any Batman in Batman Returns, to which I say, Ary,
your fucking palette pastry is great, but sometimes you need
some protein and that protein can be its own version
of delicious? Am I hungry right now? I think I'm
probably hungry right now? Anyway, we have returning Hammer Horror
stalwart Michael Goff as Alfred penniworth n pat Hengele as
(09:40):
Commissioner Gordon. But when it came time to the New Hires,
there was only one choice for the penguin, Dustin Hoffman,
Marlon Brando, Christopher Lloyd and Robert de Niro. That was
what Warners was pushing. Thankfully, Danny DeVito fit the vision
Tim Burton had been crafting of the Penguin short, round
and grotesque, and when it came to Catwoman, the choice
(10:02):
was equally laser focused. There was only ever one Lena Oland,
Jody Wattley, Ellen Barkin, and Jennifer Jason Lee. And of
course we know who was actually hired, Annette Benning, no joke,
She got pregnant right before she was hired and stepped away.
Then Sean Young went nuts and dressed up in a
cat suit and showed up on the Warner Brothers lot
(10:23):
demanding to see Tim Burton. And then we got Michelle Pfeiffer. Oh,
and they hired Marlon Wayans to play Robin, a holdover
from earlier drafts that introduced him briefly with an eye
towards Batman and Robin. As the third film, Wayans had
a payer play contract Warner Brothers paid. Filming was conducted
in Burbank at the Warner Brothers lot instead of Shepperton
(10:43):
in England, owing to the fact that Burton wanted this
film to feel entirely different from the first, which included
American extras as the denizens of Gotham, And although the
penguin portion of the shoot I'm talking about the actual
penguins in their habitat that needed to be maintained, proved
a bit trying, Evidently it was a smooth operation overall.
Here endeth the smoothness. If you remember or have heard
(11:06):
of any controversies with Batman Returns, then it definitely involves
a clown no way scarier than the joker I'm talking
about Ronald McDonald and the Batman Returns Happy Meal tie ins.
Tim Burton himself is on record saying that executives from
McDonald's were baffled and horrified by the black icker that
sometimes dripples from the corners of the penguin's mouth. To
(11:28):
be fair, the Penguin and Batman Returns is really fucking gross.
I don't think I ate salmon for the entirety of
the nineties, thanks to the sight of Oswald Cobblepot gobbling
it down raw. Also, I want to fill her void
Jesus Christ. Of course, the disgusting elements are easy targets.
I'm sure it was way easier to focus on that
(11:48):
than try to articulate the unease they felt at the
dark mirror version of Batman's origin presented at the beginning
of the film. Paul Rubens and Diane Salinger that's Pee
Herrman and Simmo from Tim Burton's Pee's Big Adventure are
the Cobblepots, a disgustingly moneyed Gotham couple whose child turns
out to be an abomination that they pull a Moses
(12:09):
routine on casting his wicker basket into the sewers, so
rather than Bruce Wayne losing his parents and inheriting everything
and eventually playing at being a freak, Oswald, Cobblepot is
abandoned by his parents and loses everything and is an
actual freak. I mentioned the overwriting criticism of the movie
is lack of Batman. That's the overwriting criticism from film fans.
(12:32):
Comic book fans, on the other hand, took umbrage mainly
with how loose Burton was playing with their beloved characters.
And I get it. I have my favorites, and I
have my own preconceived notions on how they should be presented.
I read a draft of one of the proposed remakes
of Escape from New York that had Snake Pliskin as
having bought land in Manhattan that was nullified when the
(12:54):
government turned it into a prison, and that was part
of his personal mission there, and it had flashbacks to
the time on the front lines in Russia where he
loses his eye. Fuck. It was horrible, and I'm sure
i'd be twice as vocal about it had they actually
committed that bullshit to Celluloid. So I totally understand wanting
some goddamned loyalty to the character as originally conceived. For instance,
(13:18):
the penguin here, as I mentioned, born a freak with
flippers and that nose to a fabulously wealthy family. They
abandoned him in the sewer, where he's adopted by a
colony of penguins that are still living in the abandoned
Gotham Zoo. In the comics Golden Age, penguin didn't have
an origin. He was just a jolly fuck who loves
stealing bird themed shit. Then in the Silver Age we
(13:39):
finally got a name in a history, Oswald Cobbalpot. The
penguin grew up an only child with an overprotective mother
who made him carry an umbrella everywhere lest he contracted
pneumonia like his ailing father. Oh, and his parents own
a bird shop and he's fascinated by birds. He studies
ornithology in college, and then the bird shop is reap
(14:00):
and his parents are devastated and die and he turns
to a life of crime. What they didn't go with that?
It's so scintillating. And here's the thing, most of the
fans upset with the change didn't even know this origin
because it was rewritten in the Silver Age. Then Oswald
Combopot became a beak nosed fat boy who was mercilessly
teased by his older brothers. Those brothers one time beat
(14:23):
him up and killed his birds, and then Oswald slowly
methodically murdered his brothers and made it all look like accidents.
That's a way better origin. But wait, there's more, because
after the crisis on infinite earths, now Combopot is a
businessman who owns the Iceberg Lounge and came up thanks
to his wealthy family's connections. So just like one tends
(14:45):
to hold the Saturday Night live cast they experienced in
high school up as the greatest cast ever, so too
does one's initial experience of a character tend to cement
your ideal version of them. The origins for catwomen are
just as multiple. She was simply the cat when she
first appeared in Batman comics, dressed in a thigh bearing
purple dress with a green cape and a cat mask.
(15:08):
That was Batman number one in nineteen forty. Like the penguin,
she wouldn't get in an origin or a name until
a decade later. Now, let's say you aren't a fan
of the mousey secretary who gets pushed out a window
by her corrupt boss and revivified by Garfield and friends,
which in turns unlocks an agent of chaos. You must
be a fan of the original backstory, the one that
(15:30):
she doesn't know herself because meets Selina Kayle Jewel thief
extraordinaire who was hid in the head and suffered amnesia.
That's it. That's all we get. And then they've retired
the character, thanks in no small part to the implementation
of the comic book Code, which let me read to
you the guidelines for costume and marriage slash sex. Nudity
(15:50):
in any form is prohibited as indecent or undue exposure.
Suggestive and solacious illustration or suggestive posture is unacceptable. All
characters shall be depicted in dress reasonably acceptable to society.
Females shall be drawn realistically, without exaggeration of any physical qualities.
Divorce shall not be treated humorously nor represented as desirable.
(16:15):
Illicit sex relations are neither to be hinted at nor portrayed.
Violent love scenes, as well as sexual abnormalities, are unacceptable.
Respect for parents, the moral code and for honorable behavior
shall be fostered. A sympathetic understanding of the problems of
love is not a license for morbid distortion. The treatment
(16:36):
of live romance stories shall emphasize the value of the
home and the sanctity of marriage. Passion or romantic interest
shall never be treated in such a way as to
stimulate the lower and baser emotions. Seduction and rape shall
never be shown or suggested, and sex perversion or any
(16:56):
interference to same is strictly forbidden. Faced with that, most
comic book companies pulled back on their costume female characters altogether,
a freeze that would eventually be obliterated thanks to the
popularity of the Adam West Batman TV series and its
rotating Catwoman, which forced DC to finally bring her back.
(17:16):
She'd get a new origin in nineteen eighty three, although
it's more like they actually filled out the rest of
her tale of amnesia. Turns out she's on the run
from an abusive boyfriend and then they killed her. I'm
not kidding, and they did it off screen. Bruce just
mentions it. It's so stupid, and it was on Earth two,
so they could just disavow it if the fans didn't approve.
After Crisis on Infinite Earths when they wiped the whole
(17:40):
slate clean, Batman Year one introduced us to yet another
origin for Selina Kyle, a sex worker. Way to go,
Frank Miller, I couldn't stand the Nolan Batman films, but
the Dark Knight got one thing painfully right. The Joker
tells his own origin story a few times in a
few different ways. These are multiple characters. What do you
(18:01):
need from them? That's what they are, Tim Burtons, In
no way reality version of Batman is every bit as
valid as Christopher Nolan's or even Joel Schumacher's. None affect
the other and can be enjoyed in their own This
should have been old news, considering we'd had the Batman
black and white cereals in the forties, the Adam West
Show in sixty six, that ridiculous seventies revival, the Legend
(18:24):
of the Superheroes, not to mention the animated fair, The
Adventures of Batman in sixty eight, or the shorts that
appeared on Sesame Street. They were hanging out with Scooby Doo.
It was also The New Adventures of Batman and he
shows up on the fucking super Friends. You can love
any or all of them. For me, I love a
contained world. The more outlandish the better, and as long
as they're telling an interesting story in a deeply visual,
(18:47):
deeply artful way, I'm willing to go along with any alterations.
You think Batman lighting a fire breathing villain on fire
is unforgivable, I'd counter there are worst crimes on screen.
Bruce Wayne scratching a CD like an LP a CD
player with a bat symbol on it, which is better
than a bat credit card, but not by much. Disappearing
(19:07):
black Eye makeup, tiny people in penguin costumes. They're all
really dumb, and I mentioned some of that cringey dialogue.
I was their number one son and they treated me
like number two.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Oof.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Deliver me from the Cat's skills, but none of that
can overshadow what a perfect, little, self contained film this is.
I wish it had been Burton's only one. I think
Burton wishes this has been his only one. It has
the explosions and fights and car chases you'd get in
any superhero film, but ultimately it's more interested in the
inner workings of these broken people and all the ways
(19:41):
they reflect and refract each other. More specifically, the villains
function as aspects of Batman's personality. People say there was
not enough Batman in this movie, Well, what is the
Penguin if not a far darker version of Bruce Wayne's origin,
and Catwoman the perfect representation of the war between his
own personalities in his present and Max Shrek a haunting
(20:02):
portent of a potential future. And in that way, Batman
Returns is the most clever retelling of a Christmas Carol
of all time, and it did it with the height
of style. People were shocked by the S and M
latex styling of Catwoman suit. God damn, I love that
white stitching. But I ask you, was that not the
natural conclusion of that character's look into the Penguin? He
(20:24):
what waddled and sent that made him a penguin. How
about he's the closest human equivalent, with a nose that
can only be a beak, and actual penguins raised him.
And of course Bruce Wayne is sitting in firelit Wayne
mannor just pensively waiting for the moment when the bat
signal will come streaming through that window and his life
will have purpose. Not to mention, this film is savage
(20:46):
when it comes to its take on merchandising and capitalism.
The specter hanging over Gotham isn't the Riddler, it's Max
Schrenk's department store as a giant symbol of consumerism, and
at one point the script was even more pointed with
suven stands all over Gotham packed with Batman paraphernalia. So
not just a shot at the overall commercialization of Christmas,
(21:07):
but more specifically how exploited Burton felt at the hands
of Warners and their merchandising frenzy in nineteen eighty nine.
And then there's the plot where the citizens of Gotham
are completely taken by this political outsider. After all, lawlessness
is running rampant. It's time for a mayor who clamped
down on all these riots and make Gotham great again.
(21:28):
When I first saw Batman Returns, I thought that little
plot contrivance was pretty corny. It was in fact inspired
by a couple of episodes of the old television series,
which is as corny as you could get. I mean, sure,
Gothamites would swarm around a parade where free money is
being distributed, but come on, no one's going to fall
for a slick makeover and aggressive advertising campaign. They wouldn't
(21:49):
elect someone so clearly in the pocket of a crazed
a billionaire, right, the one funding those fucking riots Nowadays.
The outlandist part is that when Gotham citizens find out
that the pengh as a horrible person and holds them
in contempt, they actually turn on him. Tell me again
how morally and politically complex those Christopher Nolan Batman films
are again. I know you're all gonna watch Gremlins and
(22:11):
die Hard in a Christmas story, but I want to
urge you all to add Batman Returns to the rotation.
Maybe it didn't work for you as a Batman film,
but give it a chance as a purely Christmas flick,
because the fact is You're not going to find a
film more suffused with the holiday spirit in either appearance
or character. In the end, Evil is banished, Bruce finds
a modicum of peace, and Catwoman is free from any
(22:33):
of the shackles that we're keeping her down. The movie
says it better than I can.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Well come with me. Merry Christmas, mister Wade, met Christmas, Holt,
good will toward men and woman.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
From Ripley Jean and Foxy and me. Merry Christmas to all.
It's all a good night.
Welcome mag Midnight viewers to a special Christmas roundup. I'm
Father Malone, and with me is the festive pug straight
from the North Pole, South Pole. It's not Santa, that's
the thing. Oh that's where Jed, the dog who plays
the thing at the beginning of the film is located.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Whether you celebrate Hanukkah or Christmas, or Kwanza or Ramadan
or to Life Day, it is a time of joy
in every other year but this one. Although nineteen forty
one must have been an interesting Christmas, so let's make
this interesting year of our interesting times a little more joyous,
a little more Christmas. And to that end, I've chosen
to focus on and recommend the greatest Christmas movie ever
(01:18):
made from nineteen ninety two. Here's the trailer.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I've been down the angel all that's time for me
to a cent from the sewers of Gotham. A new
villain emerges. You didn't invite me, oh, I cry the
(01:51):
movetops of Gotham. The perfect enemy comes to life. I
am catulis hermy fro Yeah, and the only one who
(02:17):
can save this city is a creature of the night
they stood.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
We had something together we do.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
While she craves a romance, she can sink her claws
into you headnot a girl like he plots a foul
rain of destruction. My dear penguins, Tik stop man. That
time I've come and I call out you have above
(03:41):
Gotham lose its greatest hero.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's right, you tinsel covered motherfucker's Batman returns. What that's
not even the best Batman movie? Fuck you put that
in your stocking? Is Diehard of Chris Movie, Yes, Gremlins, Yes,
the Reth Yes, Kiss, Kiss, Bang Bang, lethal Weapon, long Kiss,
good Night, The Last Boy, Scout, anything by Shane Black,
(04:10):
basically Nightmare before Christmas. That one seems obvious, doesn't it?
Yet somehow I have to hear those fucking songs in October.
Don't get your snowflakes in my fake blood, Tim tim Burton.
If you're gonna mash up the holidays, Halloween needs to
invade Christmas and then knock the other way around. And
that is exactly what we have here. Let me tell
(04:31):
you what a score Batman nineteen eighty nine was for
US comic book fiends. Once it came out, you could
say the name Batman out loud and not have some
dingus immediately shout no no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no Batman, because that was the level of interaction most
people had with the character. Can't be silly and for kids.
To be fair, that was the general public's view on
(04:53):
comic books as a whole. They couldn't have known that
by the time Tim Burton got time. They couldn't have
known that by the time Tim Burton got to saying
action for the first time, readers of Batman had seen
him training with Assassins. The Joker had been given a
tragic and twisted backstory, Dick Grayson had left and become
night Wing, and thanks to Frank Miller, we'd seen not
only a dark future for Bruce Wayne, but we got
(05:16):
a reimagined origin in Batman Year one, so not just
adult comics, but actually mature comics. That same public was
unprepared for an industrialized Gotham city that drew inspiration from
every decade in discipline, or a Joker who's grinning rictuses
literally carved into his face. Though these surprises were not unwelcome,
(05:37):
pulling in four hundred million dollars off of its fifty
million dollar budget, becoming the fifth highest grossing film of
all time at that time, not to mention the merchandising.
You couldn't turn around without seeing someone sporting a bat
symbol somewhere on their person. Clothing and posters and toys
and happy meals. Warner Brothers ends up learning a lesson
that twentieth century Fox had been taught by George Lucas
(06:00):
in the nineteen seventies. You can make more with the
spinoff products than you can the actual film. This will
be a problem later, because right now Warners is a
glow with the success of Batman, and plans are immediately
set in motion for a sequel. Sam Ham, Batman's credited screenwriter,
is brought back for its initial draft, which would have
found Batman tangling with Harvey Dent in his transformation into
(06:23):
two Face, a plot thread that had already been seated
with Billy d Williams appearance in the first film, But
Warners was insistent that the Penguin or the Riddler be
the next antagonist, given the fact that nobody knows who
the fuck two Face is. Ham chose the Penguin, Burton
added Catwoman, and while Ham is given the credit for
the Christmas setting, I suspect this was actually Burton, given
(06:45):
that Burton had made his own pass at a Batman's
screenplay some five years before that included a tree lighting
scene where the Joker launched that Christmas tree into the
stratosphere like a fuck in a rocket. Ham's script for
Batman Returns had Catwoman and Penguin teaming up against Batman,
while its overall plot concerned a massive treasure hunt and
uncovering Gotham's dark history and the Wayne Family's place in it,
(07:09):
none of which was much interest to Tim Burton, who
had by then focused on the modern day fairy tale
Edward Scissorhands, and that was the fundamental stumbling block in
the first film. I read more than one interview with
Sam Ham at the time where he kept reiterating that
we didn't want to make this a normal thing. You
didn't want people saying, Oh, there's the Policeman, there's the Milkman,
(07:30):
there's the Batman. Actually, Sam, quite a few of us did,
including Tim Burton enter screenwriter Daniel Waters. He detracted Burton's
attention with his nineteen eighty eight dark comedy masterpiece Heathers.
Waters brought an absurdist almost nihilistic viewpoint to Batman, which
paired nicely with Burton's idea of a Gotham fueled by
(07:51):
trauma out when Vicky Vale and basically any narrative connections
to the first film and in came an almost dreamlike
reality where rich parents a bend and their babies into
rivers that lead to sewers that lead to a life
raised among penguins, where a herd of cats can resurrect
you after you've fallen. Thirty stories to the hard pavement below.
In other words, comic book a heightened reality than our own,
(08:16):
one in which I do not need to know that
Batman's tall bat ears are in fact antennae, the parts
of which he's outsourced from shell companies, so his secret
identity won't become public. Blah blah blah, hit the fucking
bat signal already. Waters script was a vast improvement. Although
a little more snarky and occasionally one linery than I
(08:37):
prefer it still wasn't Tim burtony enough, and when Daniel
Waters refused to add that extra splash of a whimsy,
he was replaced with then go to WonderBoy script Doctor
Wesley Strick. He was more than happy to graft on
a subplot about Gotham's first born in an entire penguin
colony outfitted with tiny missiles and tiny metal hats. I'm
(08:59):
going to sign with Daniel Waters on that Michael Keaton
doubling his salary and actually getting the proper credit at
the start of this film pulled back hard on the
script's portrayal of Batman, reducing dialogue to the bare minimum.
In fact, he, like Burton, felt that Batman should be
a piece of this story and not its focus, which
is one of the main criticisms you hear about this flick.
(09:20):
There's hardly any Batman in Batman Returns, to which I say, Ary,
your fucking palette pastry is great, but sometimes you need
some protein and that protein can be its own version
of delicious? Am I hungry right now? I think I'm
probably hungry right now? Anyway, we have returning Hammer Horror
stalwart Michael Goff as Alfred penniworth n pat Hengele as
(09:40):
Commissioner Gordon. But when it came time to the New Hires,
there was only one choice for the penguin, Dustin Hoffman,
Marlon Brando, Christopher Lloyd and Robert de Niro. That was
what Warners was pushing. Thankfully, Danny DeVito fit the vision
Tim Burton had been crafting of the Penguin short, round
and grotesque, and when it came to Catwoman, the choice
(10:02):
was equally laser focused. There was only ever one Lena Oland,
Jody Wattley, Ellen Barkin, and Jennifer Jason Lee. And of
course we know who was actually hired, Annette Benning, no joke,
She got pregnant right before she was hired and stepped away.
Then Sean Young went nuts and dressed up in a
cat suit and showed up on the Warner Brothers lot
(10:23):
demanding to see Tim Burton. And then we got Michelle Pfeiffer. Oh,
and they hired Marlon Wayans to play Robin, a holdover
from earlier drafts that introduced him briefly with an eye
towards Batman and Robin. As the third film, Wayans had
a payer play contract Warner Brothers paid. Filming was conducted
in Burbank at the Warner Brothers lot instead of Shepperton
(10:43):
in England, owing to the fact that Burton wanted this
film to feel entirely different from the first, which included
American extras as the denizens of Gotham, And although the
penguin portion of the shoot I'm talking about the actual
penguins in their habitat that needed to be maintained, proved
a bit trying, Evidently it was a smooth operation overall.
Here endeth the smoothness. If you remember or have heard
(11:06):
of any controversies with Batman Returns, then it definitely involves
a clown no way scarier than the joker I'm talking
about Ronald McDonald and the Batman Returns Happy Meal tie ins.
Tim Burton himself is on record saying that executives from
McDonald's were baffled and horrified by the black icker that
sometimes dripples from the corners of the penguin's mouth. To
(11:28):
be fair, the Penguin and Batman Returns is really fucking gross.
I don't think I ate salmon for the entirety of
the nineties, thanks to the sight of Oswald Cobblepot gobbling
it down raw. Also, I want to fill her void
Jesus Christ. Of course, the disgusting elements are easy targets.
I'm sure it was way easier to focus on that
(11:48):
than try to articulate the unease they felt at the
dark mirror version of Batman's origin presented at the beginning
of the film. Paul Rubens and Diane Salinger that's Pee
Herrman and Simmo from Tim Burton's Pee's Big Adventure are
the Cobblepots, a disgustingly moneyed Gotham couple whose child turns
out to be an abomination that they pull a Moses
(12:09):
routine on casting his wicker basket into the sewers, so
rather than Bruce Wayne losing his parents and inheriting everything
and eventually playing at being a freak, Oswald, Cobblepot is
abandoned by his parents and loses everything and is an
actual freak. I mentioned the overwriting criticism of the movie
is lack of Batman. That's the overwriting criticism from film fans.
(12:32):
Comic book fans, on the other hand, took umbrage mainly
with how loose Burton was playing with their beloved characters.
And I get it. I have my favorites, and I
have my own preconceived notions on how they should be presented.
I read a draft of one of the proposed remakes
of Escape from New York that had Snake Pliskin as
having bought land in Manhattan that was nullified when the
(12:54):
government turned it into a prison, and that was part
of his personal mission there, and it had flashbacks to
the time on the front lines in Russia where he
loses his eye. Fuck. It was horrible, and I'm sure
i'd be twice as vocal about it had they actually
committed that bullshit to Celluloid. So I totally understand wanting
some goddamned loyalty to the character as originally conceived. For instance,
(13:18):
the penguin here, as I mentioned, born a freak with
flippers and that nose to a fabulously wealthy family. They
abandoned him in the sewer, where he's adopted by a
colony of penguins that are still living in the abandoned
Gotham Zoo. In the comics Golden Age, penguin didn't have
an origin. He was just a jolly fuck who loves
stealing bird themed shit. Then in the Silver Age we
(13:39):
finally got a name in a history, Oswald Cobbalpot. The
penguin grew up an only child with an overprotective mother
who made him carry an umbrella everywhere lest he contracted
pneumonia like his ailing father. Oh, and his parents own
a bird shop and he's fascinated by birds. He studies
ornithology in college, and then the bird shop is reap
(14:00):
and his parents are devastated and die and he turns
to a life of crime. What they didn't go with that?
It's so scintillating. And here's the thing, most of the
fans upset with the change didn't even know this origin
because it was rewritten in the Silver Age. Then Oswald
Combopot became a beak nosed fat boy who was mercilessly
teased by his older brothers. Those brothers one time beat
(14:23):
him up and killed his birds, and then Oswald slowly
methodically murdered his brothers and made it all look like accidents.
That's a way better origin. But wait, there's more, because
after the crisis on infinite earths, now Combopot is a
businessman who owns the Iceberg Lounge and came up thanks
to his wealthy family's connections. So just like one tends
(14:45):
to hold the Saturday Night live cast they experienced in
high school up as the greatest cast ever, so too
does one's initial experience of a character tend to cement
your ideal version of them. The origins for catwomen are
just as multiple. She was simply the cat when she
first appeared in Batman comics, dressed in a thigh bearing
purple dress with a green cape and a cat mask.
(15:08):
That was Batman number one in nineteen forty. Like the penguin,
she wouldn't get in an origin or a name until
a decade later. Now, let's say you aren't a fan
of the mousey secretary who gets pushed out a window
by her corrupt boss and revivified by Garfield and friends,
which in turns unlocks an agent of chaos. You must
be a fan of the original backstory, the one that
(15:30):
she doesn't know herself because meets Selina Kayle Jewel thief
extraordinaire who was hid in the head and suffered amnesia.
That's it. That's all we get. And then they've retired
the character, thanks in no small part to the implementation
of the comic book Code, which let me read to
you the guidelines for costume and marriage slash sex. Nudity
(15:50):
in any form is prohibited as indecent or undue exposure.
Suggestive and solacious illustration or suggestive posture is unacceptable. All
characters shall be depicted in dress reasonably acceptable to society.
Females shall be drawn realistically, without exaggeration of any physical qualities.
Divorce shall not be treated humorously nor represented as desirable.
(16:15):
Illicit sex relations are neither to be hinted at nor portrayed.
Violent love scenes, as well as sexual abnormalities, are unacceptable.
Respect for parents, the moral code and for honorable behavior
shall be fostered. A sympathetic understanding of the problems of
love is not a license for morbid distortion. The treatment
(16:36):
of live romance stories shall emphasize the value of the
home and the sanctity of marriage. Passion or romantic interest
shall never be treated in such a way as to
stimulate the lower and baser emotions. Seduction and rape shall
never be shown or suggested, and sex perversion or any
(16:56):
interference to same is strictly forbidden. Faced with that, most
comic book companies pulled back on their costume female characters altogether,
a freeze that would eventually be obliterated thanks to the
popularity of the Adam West Batman TV series and its
rotating Catwoman, which forced DC to finally bring her back.
(17:16):
She'd get a new origin in nineteen eighty three, although
it's more like they actually filled out the rest of
her tale of amnesia. Turns out she's on the run
from an abusive boyfriend and then they killed her. I'm
not kidding, and they did it off screen. Bruce just
mentions it. It's so stupid, and it was on Earth two,
so they could just disavow it if the fans didn't approve.
After Crisis on Infinite Earths when they wiped the whole
(17:40):
slate clean, Batman Year one introduced us to yet another
origin for Selina Kyle, a sex worker. Way to go,
Frank Miller, I couldn't stand the Nolan Batman films, but
the Dark Knight got one thing painfully right. The Joker
tells his own origin story a few times in a
few different ways. These are multiple characters. What do you
(18:01):
need from them? That's what they are, Tim Burtons, In
no way reality version of Batman is every bit as
valid as Christopher Nolan's or even Joel Schumacher's. None affect
the other and can be enjoyed in their own This
should have been old news, considering we'd had the Batman
black and white cereals in the forties, the Adam West
Show in sixty six, that ridiculous seventies revival, the Legend
(18:24):
of the Superheroes, not to mention the animated fair, The
Adventures of Batman in sixty eight, or the shorts that
appeared on Sesame Street. They were hanging out with Scooby Doo.
It was also The New Adventures of Batman and he
shows up on the fucking super Friends. You can love
any or all of them. For me, I love a
contained world. The more outlandish the better, and as long
as they're telling an interesting story in a deeply visual,
(18:47):
deeply artful way, I'm willing to go along with any alterations.
You think Batman lighting a fire breathing villain on fire
is unforgivable, I'd counter there are worst crimes on screen.
Bruce Wayne scratching a CD like an LP a CD
player with a bat symbol on it, which is better
than a bat credit card, but not by much. Disappearing
(19:07):
black Eye makeup, tiny people in penguin costumes. They're all
really dumb, and I mentioned some of that cringey dialogue.
I was their number one son and they treated me
like number two.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Oof.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Deliver me from the Cat's skills, but none of that
can overshadow what a perfect, little, self contained film this is.
I wish it had been Burton's only one. I think
Burton wishes this has been his only one. It has
the explosions and fights and car chases you'd get in
any superhero film, but ultimately it's more interested in the
inner workings of these broken people and all the ways
(19:41):
they reflect and refract each other. More specifically, the villains
function as aspects of Batman's personality. People say there was
not enough Batman in this movie, Well, what is the
Penguin if not a far darker version of Bruce Wayne's origin,
and Catwoman the perfect representation of the war between his
own personalities in his present and Max Shrek a haunting
(20:02):
portent of a potential future. And in that way, Batman
Returns is the most clever retelling of a Christmas Carol
of all time, and it did it with the height
of style. People were shocked by the S and M
latex styling of Catwoman suit. God damn, I love that
white stitching. But I ask you, was that not the
natural conclusion of that character's look into the Penguin? He
(20:24):
what waddled and sent that made him a penguin. How
about he's the closest human equivalent, with a nose that
can only be a beak, and actual penguins raised him.
And of course Bruce Wayne is sitting in firelit Wayne
mannor just pensively waiting for the moment when the bat
signal will come streaming through that window and his life
will have purpose. Not to mention, this film is savage
(20:46):
when it comes to its take on merchandising and capitalism.
The specter hanging over Gotham isn't the Riddler, it's Max
Schrenk's department store as a giant symbol of consumerism, and
at one point the script was even more pointed with
suven stands all over Gotham packed with Batman paraphernalia. So
not just a shot at the overall commercialization of Christmas,
(21:07):
but more specifically how exploited Burton felt at the hands
of Warners and their merchandising frenzy in nineteen eighty nine.
And then there's the plot where the citizens of Gotham
are completely taken by this political outsider. After all, lawlessness
is running rampant. It's time for a mayor who clamped
down on all these riots and make Gotham great again.
(21:28):
When I first saw Batman Returns, I thought that little
plot contrivance was pretty corny. It was in fact inspired
by a couple of episodes of the old television series,
which is as corny as you could get. I mean, sure,
Gothamites would swarm around a parade where free money is
being distributed, but come on, no one's going to fall
for a slick makeover and aggressive advertising campaign. They wouldn't
(21:49):
elect someone so clearly in the pocket of a crazed
a billionaire, right, the one funding those fucking riots Nowadays.
The outlandist part is that when Gotham citizens find out
that the pengh as a horrible person and holds them
in contempt, they actually turn on him. Tell me again
how morally and politically complex those Christopher Nolan Batman films
are again. I know you're all gonna watch Gremlins and
(22:11):
die Hard in a Christmas story, but I want to
urge you all to add Batman Returns to the rotation.
Maybe it didn't work for you as a Batman film,
but give it a chance as a purely Christmas flick,
because the fact is You're not going to find a
film more suffused with the holiday spirit in either appearance
or character. In the end, Evil is banished, Bruce finds
a modicum of peace, and Catwoman is free from any
(22:33):
of the shackles that we're keeping her down. The movie
says it better than I can.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Well come with me. Merry Christmas, mister Wade, met Christmas, Holt,
good will toward men and woman.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
From Ripley Jean and Foxy and me. Merry Christmas to all.
It's all a good night.
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