November 7, 2024 • 22 mins
Writer Xaque (pronounced Zack) Gruber makes his directorial debut with Sallywood. He wrote the screenplay based on his own experiences as the personal assistant to eccentric award-winning actress Sally Kirkland. Xaque discusses the making of this wonderful odyssey -- an insider look into Hollywood and what the still vital Kirkland faces with getting older in a town where youth is celebrated most.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In every humdrum life, there is a muse, someone who
ignites inspiration.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I had Sally Karko.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Okay, I'm mailing a bat with Zach Kruber. There he
is in his library and he's the writer director of
Sally Wood. Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hi, I'm so happy to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Me too, And I have a confession to make.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Okay, Robin, I had to google how to pronounce your name.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yeah, I know, it looks like I'm from Mars or
I don't know. You know, it translates so funny in
different languages too, But that is indeed my name, Zach Krueber.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
All right, So is it?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Are you named after someone because of the spelling or
actually yes?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So, once upon a time, in a land called Austria,
there was a man named Franz Gruber. Do you hear
that is?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
So he wrote the Christmas songs Nice, Holy Nice. That
was my grandfather seven generations ago. He wrote that song
in German. It was still Enocht highly Enocht wow, and
it you know, people know it and love it in
(01:19):
every language. But his middle name is my first name.
So long story short, anyway, that song is my family song.
It's Christmas is in my blood. Let's just say.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh, I can only imagine it must be sung every
single Christmas in a very special way.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I listen every time I hear that song. It's like,
I swear, it's like a message from God. It's like
a message from an angel looking at me. It's such
a special thing, and I specially love hearing it, which
isn't very often in the German language. It's just really
beautiful the language it was written in so.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Well, I didn't expect to hear that, Zach. So that's
a great story.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I'm full of really good stories.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yes you are, So tell me about your little back trap, backdrop.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Where are you exactly?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Okay, So in downtown Vero Beach, Florida, of all places,
see my alligators. I'm dressed Berry, Florida right now. I inherited.
I guess you could say this library of art books.
It's thousands of art books that span the entire history
of art from prehistoric times to modern times. And the
(02:36):
whole town comes here and checks out these art books.
So basically, there was a library in town housed in
our art museum. They decided they didn't want it anymore
and they were going to just get rid of this
library and toss it, I don't know, in a dumpster.
So I decided, no, no, no, I'm going to save this.
I guess I'm a librarian now, you know. I mean,
(02:58):
I'm doing this completely altruistic, just because I love books
and I love which is this perfect segue into Sallywood
because I'm a writer in that movie, and I do.
I love actual you know, paper, like Okay, look at this, Robin.
This is this is my Most people put this in
their phone.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
No, I do the same thing, Zac.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I have a calendar book where I write all my
stuff down week by week, and this is my brain.
I read old school this book, old school the best
way to go.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I mean, I maybe I'm an alien, but I much
prefer paper and pen than digital.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
So do you do you write your scripts longhand as.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Well initially and then I and then, you know, because
of the way of the world, I type it into
my laptop with final draft software. But I don't like
to read books on Kindle. I really prefer a paper book.
On an airplane, I'm always reading a book or two
and magazines. I'm really you know, I hope it doesn't
(04:06):
ever go away. I love the old the old ways.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, we're kindred spirits, I feel are we?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Oh good?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yes, because me too. I love you know.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I was going to do a fancy salllywood background like
you have, but I thought no, I always let people
see my book collection here, being an artist, I'm primarily
a fine artist. I did all the calligraphy. I don't
know if you can see on these signs.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, that you can see that. I actually took a
calligraphy marker and did all the actual signs on little
pieces of woods, so you can see where the books were.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I love it, so Sallly would. Obviously this is a
true story, right, Yes, this is some' you've been besties
with Sally Kirklet Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah. Should I tell you the timeline?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yes please?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Okay, So two thousand and two I drove to Los Angeles,
hardly knowing a soul and met Sally Kirkland. Okay, that
was where the actual story took place. Was two thousand
and two into two thousand and three, and then in
two thousand fast forward fourteen or fifteen, I wrote it
(05:20):
into a screenplay. I wrote the story of my meeting
Sally and working for her into a screenplay as an
exercise kind of, you know, to see how would this
be as a film. I presented it to Sally in
twenty fourteen or fifteen, I think it was fifteen, and
she said, give me the weekend to read it, and
(05:41):
I said okay, And then she read it. She goes, oh,
you wrote me as the world's biggest narcissist and I
can't wait to play myself this way. And I went, oh, great,
does that mean you're in? And she goes, yes, I'm in.
And I thought, oh great, I already have my lead actress,
I have my script. Now I just need everything else,
a lot of things. But she said, I want you
(06:03):
to film in my apartment because a lot of the
scenes take place in her apartment. That's her actual apartment,
and in your bed, in her bed which the whole
of Hollywood has slept in with her and including me.
And actually this is crazy but true. The lead actor
who plays me in the movie, Tyler Steelman, who's on
(06:23):
the poster standing right behind your head, he was auditioned
on her bed with her. She insisted, like, I want
to do these auditions on my bed. It's just easier.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
It's like having breakfast in bed auditions in bed with
Sally Kirkland.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
So show there, there is a show there.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I and you know what, it became such a normal
thing in my life that I thought it was completely normal.
Like I didn't even think, this is so crazy that
we're having strangers, actors, young actors coming to lay in
bed with her to do this audition. It just seemed
completely normal to me because that's how deep into her
world I was. So we had cameras and lights all
around her bed. Me and my producer and whoever else
(07:08):
were sitting there watching these actors come and go from
her apartment onto the bed, and we'd be like, that
one was good. Oh no, that one wasn't as good.
But when Tyler came on the bed when he was
a spooner, When Tyler was on the bed with her,
it was just magic. It was like it was this
(07:29):
chemistry and harmony that they were just riffing with each
other like good tennis players playing tennis. They were just
making each other. They were bringing out the best in
each other, you know, and making me laugh. And I
just looked at my producer and went, that's my mouth going,
Oh my gosh, and like basically going, it's him. Well,
(07:53):
you know he kind.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Of looks like you a little bit, wouldn't just say,
like a younger version of you?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Perhaps?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
You know. It's funny that you say that, because a
lot of people have said that and they're like, Oh,
he captures you. He is you, he looks like you,
he acts like You'm like, really, because I that's just
that's just chance. I mean, that's just incredible because we
didn't even we didn't even rehearse, we didn't have time.
We cast him, and then like I'm not even kidding,
(08:22):
it feels like less than a week later we started
filming and there was no time really to rehearse because
we were still auditioning other actors and getting other pieces
in place. And I just was like, I, you know,
he's got a script to memorize. Now, like, let's just
hope this all works.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
So I'm really I'm really happy that people see such
a connection between he and I. I love him by
the way, be oh, I.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Absore him and I absore the movie. And I was
just thinking, You've got so many wonderful connections. I mean,
you must know everyone in Hollywood.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yeah, no, we we lucked out, honestly, my first feature film,
and I have four Oscar nominated actors, one Oscar winner
Keith Carody, he won an Oscar for Nashville. Actually, so
I yeah, I have just this great array. You know,
it's kind of like making a movie. See, I'm a painter,
(09:16):
so I think of things in terms of making art.
And when you're making a painting in your art studio,
you have all you have fifty million colors to pick from,
and actors. I see them as like my special beautiful
tubes of paint. You know, I'm like, I want this color,
I want this, I want her, I want him, and
then you work them together into a composition that you know,
(09:40):
you hope and pray is going to be something beautiful.
And so thank you for responding so well to the film.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Oh and a lot of people responded well, Zack, I
think you won like you were the darling of the
film festival circuit.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I'm just I'm just thrilled. Listen.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
It took a while, though.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, so far we've won almost forty film festival awards
and counting. But I think the greatest thing for any
creative person is to create something that an audience responds to,
you know, and emotionally connects with That's the best you
can hope for, whether it's a song and you're a musician,
(10:21):
or a painting or a film or a piece of writing,
whatever it is, and that you emotionally connect with it. Wow,
Like you know, I it's a joy. I feel like
I just gave birth to a baby. This film is
like a baby. And when you're making a movie, that
baby is you're pregnant for a few years, you know
(10:44):
what I mean. It's like an elephant. So you you know,
you finally give birth and you're really hoping and praying
that the world loves your baby and they are loving it.
Rob And I'm so happy.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, I know, it's so Sally. Was she improvising a
lot of her dialogue or did.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
You write most of her dialogue and then say, okay,
you can riff on that.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
She was off book, which means memorized every line about
I don't know. Three months before we started filming. She
it was incredible to me. I gave her the script.
You know, she's made hundreds of movies and hundreds of
TV shows, plus lots of theater and everything else. So
I was really, I shouldn't have been amazed, but I
(11:37):
was truly amazed that shortly after I gave her the script,
she knew every line and she knew every scene, and
she was like, she has she's had assistance post me
and they were there rehearsing with her and doing the
scenes with her right in front of me, which was
so surreal because They're actually saying the words that she
and I said to each other in two thousand and two.
(12:00):
Now I'm seeing it with these other people saying these lines,
and I'm going, this is I can't. I feel like
I'm is this real? It's not bizarre.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
There's also like a little side story here about Hollywood
assistants and what they are, what they really go through,
because I know a couple, Oh you do, and yes,
and you're not exaggerating at all.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I mean, inside, Skinny.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I will tell you I've been lucky because a lot
of Hollywood assistants have real horror stories, you know, having
food thrown out them, having you know, being treated like garbage,
just awful stuff. Sally was never mean to me. She's eccentric,
she's colorful, she's emotional. She can be high strung, but
(12:53):
she can but she was always very human with me.
And I worked for other celebrities and producers and people,
and compared to some of the really bad horror stories
I've heard, I've been pretty fortunate I worked actually in
true real life. I went from working from Sally Kirkland
(13:13):
to Henry Winkler and in the movie and Michael Levitt
their production partners, or they were, you know, they've produced
a lot together. In the movie of Sally Wood, I
leave Sally Kirkland for a character I named Ned Levitt
played by Michael Lerner in his very final film performance.
(13:34):
I know, and I'm honored actually that Michael Lerner gives
his final film performance in my little film, because I
loved Michael Lerner in ELF. I loved him. And the
Postman always rings twice, you know, Broadway so many movies
over the years. Oh Barton Fank was nominated for Best
(13:56):
Supporting Actor. So what I did was I combined Henry
Winkler and Michael Levitt and then added some fiction in
there too, and made this new character. I wanted him
to be a TV producer from a much older generation,
like almost a MERV Griffin type era guy. And he
is on his sixth wife, and he is an old
(14:19):
mogul who's kind of like about everything, and he was
the perfect actor for this role. But back to the
beginning of what I was saying, Henry Winkler was a
complete joy to work for.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I'm so happy to hear that.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, Oh, a complete joy. In fact, I'm reading his
autobiography right now. I'm so excited to read it. And
Michael Levitt and I are very close friends. So and
Henry and I are friends. So I feel very yeah,
and Sally and I are friends. For a while, I
worked for Tony Basil. Do you remember her tell me
first singer dancer?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yes, Katie.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
She actually contributes the theme song the in the opening
credits for Sallywood, which is a song she recorded in
the sixties, and it is it's just a really great
theme song. But yeah, I worked with a lot of
different people and they were all collectively really good experiences.
Thank god. Yeah, I do feel lucky that way because, oh,
(15:20):
you know, you hear the horror stories.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Ahh. Yeah, we're not going to mention names, but.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Writing obituaries have you become more adept at that since
you've worked for.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Sally, you know? I so, yeah, in the movie. The
first thing she ever had me do was write her obituary,
which I still couldn't wrap my head around why am
I writing this obituary? And we eventually moved away from
her writing her obituary and being fixated on that, but
I did find it recently. I found the original obituary
(15:58):
that I wrote with her or her in a file,
and I'm like, oh my gosh, this might end up
in the Smithsonian. I don't know what. But still it's
just and it's long because we kept adding to it
and just kept growing. It was just ridiculous how much
information was in there. I mean, an obituary is generally
(16:20):
a column or maybe at the most a page, and
this went on for pages, and yeah, you know, listen.
It's so it's not an easy life being an actor.
It can be a great life, but it can be
a very stressful life because no matter what level you are,
(16:43):
you're always pounding the pavement looking for that next gig,
hoping for that next gig, and you're at the mercy
of a lot of other people unless you are you know,
Cate Blanchette, maybe, I don't know. There's certain people maybe
who are the AA list, but there's plenty of other lists,
and believe me, I have a lot of actor friends.
(17:04):
It is a tough line of work, so.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Especially for women and as they get older.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Right, Yeah, And Sally's had the high highs and the
lo lows. And in one particular lo lo, which is
about the time I met her, she was like fixated
on her obituary. And I think Sally would the story
is this beautiful friendship story where I'm helping her navigate
(17:31):
her way back to living and wanting to work and
wanting to get back to where she'd like to be
at eighty. It's inspiring because there is you know, there's
an old saying you are not your age, you are
your energy. And I think Georgia O'Keefe said that, and honestly,
(17:54):
I love that you are your energy. We are our energy.
You can be eighty and have the umph of a
thirty year old.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Then I'm sixteen, Zach, Oh, yes.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I thought you were. I thought maybe around there. I
wasn't sure. Sixteen seventeen.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, Arrested Development, it's my favorite show.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
One of my favorite lines, she says, medication is a
wonderful thing, much better than a facelift.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Is that something she actually said or did you write
that both.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Both? She said something like that and then I kind
of tweaked it. Yeah, Oh gosh, I've and believe me.
For all the funny Sally stories in this movie, there's
thousands more. There's so much every day. In fact, I
think during this interview she's already called me like, you
know five times. I'm you know, people say how long
(18:57):
were your assistant? I'm like, I think I'm still her assistant.
I don't know. I never really ended.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, so maybe there's a part too in the works,
if you will, there could be.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I do think that the way that the story evolves
on screen, there could be so many new avenues with
where to take it. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I
like that a lot. I'm more interested in life and
hope and friendship than I am about death or you know,
(19:34):
dark harrowing subject matter. I love comedy. I really only
want to work making comedies. I love people laughing in
an audience, and I feel like you can handle a
dark subject with humor and lightness and make it so
much more enjoyable and compelling.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Absolutely, have you thought ever about bringing this to this
because I think it is like perfect.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Wow, Rob, And that's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
For life theatrical.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I love that because there's a lot of interiors and
there's you know, a colorful.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I'll help you produce it.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So what do you.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Hope audiences come away with after seeing Sally Wood? I
think you gave us a little hint, you know, a
couple of minutes ago.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But expand on that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
What do I hope audiences come away with? Come away with?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah, I really feel like the audiences so far this
year have come away with a great warm feeling, a
great warm and a hopeful warmth. They also learn about
Sally Kirkland, and you know through the movie she's confused
with Sally Kellerman. She people don't quite know how to
(20:54):
place her. She feels forgotten about, and I feel like
here I am giving her a spotlight and a chance
for people to learn about this great woman of our
age who's basically she started with Andy Warhol in the
sixties in his experimental films, Yeah I mean, and then
(21:17):
working through every decade Charlie's Angels, Three's Company, all the
way into the nineties. She was on murder, she wrote,
she was on law and order. She was in Bruce
Almighty and now she was just an eighty for Brady
last year. There's there's a huge span of years there,
in decades that not many people can say. Yeah, I
(21:39):
started with Andy Warhol and I was just an eighty
for Brady and now Sally would which who knows how
far Sallywood can go? You know, with a one week
cinema engagement that we have upon us, we could we
qualify for awards season And wouldn't that be lovely? I
really feel in normal, mostly hopeful. I think audiences feel
(22:01):
that way when they come out of the film and
warm and good, like, Yeah, at any age I can
triumph and get back in the game.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Absolutely well, Zach, it was lovely speaking to you.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Have very happy holidays.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Thank you so much. Robin, you too. Yeah, and I
really appreciate this so much. Let's be in touch, definitely.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I don't know where I belong anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
You came into my life and you've brought me hope.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
God just be use the rest of the world forgot
about you. Doesn't mean I have
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Always new, always refreshing, always can't always billing about Robin
Milling delivers what celebrities are saying to you, you
In every humdrum life, there is a muse, someone who
ignites inspiration.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I had Sally Karko.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Okay, I'm mailing a bat with Zach Kruber. There he
is in his library and he's the writer director of
Sally Wood. Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hi, I'm so happy to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Me too, And I have a confession to make.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Okay, Robin, I had to google how to pronounce your name.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yeah, I know, it looks like I'm from Mars or
I don't know. You know, it translates so funny in
different languages too, But that is indeed my name, Zach Krueber.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
All right, So is it?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Are you named after someone because of the spelling or
actually yes?
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So, once upon a time, in a land called Austria,
there was a man named Franz Gruber. Do you hear
that is?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (00:57):
So he wrote the Christmas songs Nice, Holy Nice. That
was my grandfather seven generations ago. He wrote that song
in German. It was still Enocht highly Enocht wow, and
it you know, people know it and love it in
(01:19):
every language. But his middle name is my first name.
So long story short, anyway, that song is my family song.
It's Christmas is in my blood. Let's just say.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh, I can only imagine it must be sung every
single Christmas in a very special way.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I listen every time I hear that song. It's like,
I swear, it's like a message from God. It's like
a message from an angel looking at me. It's such
a special thing, and I specially love hearing it, which
isn't very often in the German language. It's just really
beautiful the language it was written in so.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Well, I didn't expect to hear that, Zach. So that's
a great story.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I'm full of really good stories.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yes you are, So tell me about your little back trap, backdrop.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Where are you exactly?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Okay, So in downtown Vero Beach, Florida, of all places,
see my alligators. I'm dressed Berry, Florida right now. I inherited.
I guess you could say this library of art books.
It's thousands of art books that span the entire history
of art from prehistoric times to modern times. And the
(02:36):
whole town comes here and checks out these art books.
So basically, there was a library in town housed in
our art museum. They decided they didn't want it anymore
and they were going to just get rid of this
library and toss it, I don't know, in a dumpster.
So I decided, no, no, no, I'm going to save this.
I guess I'm a librarian now, you know. I mean,
(02:58):
I'm doing this completely altruistic, just because I love books
and I love which is this perfect segue into Sallywood
because I'm a writer in that movie, and I do.
I love actual you know, paper, like Okay, look at this, Robin.
This is this is my Most people put this in
their phone.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
No, I do the same thing, Zac.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I have a calendar book where I write all my
stuff down week by week, and this is my brain.
I read old school this book, old school the best
way to go.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I mean, I maybe I'm an alien, but I much
prefer paper and pen than digital.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
So do you do you write your scripts longhand as.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Well initially and then I and then, you know, because
of the way of the world, I type it into
my laptop with final draft software. But I don't like
to read books on Kindle. I really prefer a paper book.
On an airplane, I'm always reading a book or two
and magazines. I'm really you know, I hope it doesn't
(04:06):
ever go away. I love the old the old ways.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, we're kindred spirits, I feel are we?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Oh good?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yes, because me too. I love you know.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I was going to do a fancy salllywood background like
you have, but I thought no, I always let people
see my book collection here, being an artist, I'm primarily
a fine artist. I did all the calligraphy. I don't
know if you can see on these signs.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, that you can see that. I actually took a
calligraphy marker and did all the actual signs on little
pieces of woods, so you can see where the books were.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I love it, so Sallly would. Obviously this is a
true story, right, Yes, this is some' you've been besties
with Sally Kirklet Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah. Should I tell you the timeline?
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yes please?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Okay, So two thousand and two I drove to Los Angeles,
hardly knowing a soul and met Sally Kirkland. Okay, that
was where the actual story took place. Was two thousand
and two into two thousand and three, and then in
two thousand fast forward fourteen or fifteen, I wrote it
(05:20):
into a screenplay. I wrote the story of my meeting
Sally and working for her into a screenplay as an
exercise kind of, you know, to see how would this
be as a film. I presented it to Sally in
twenty fourteen or fifteen, I think it was fifteen, and
she said, give me the weekend to read it, and
(05:41):
I said okay, And then she read it. She goes, oh,
you wrote me as the world's biggest narcissist and I
can't wait to play myself this way. And I went, oh, great,
does that mean you're in? And she goes, yes, I'm in.
And I thought, oh great, I already have my lead actress,
I have my script. Now I just need everything else,
a lot of things. But she said, I want you
(06:03):
to film in my apartment because a lot of the
scenes take place in her apartment. That's her actual apartment,
and in your bed, in her bed which the whole
of Hollywood has slept in with her and including me.
And actually this is crazy but true. The lead actor
who plays me in the movie, Tyler Steelman, who's on
(06:23):
the poster standing right behind your head, he was auditioned
on her bed with her. She insisted, like, I want
to do these auditions on my bed. It's just easier.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
It's like having breakfast in bed auditions in bed with
Sally Kirkland.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
So show there, there is a show there.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
I and you know what, it became such a normal
thing in my life that I thought it was completely normal.
Like I didn't even think, this is so crazy that
we're having strangers, actors, young actors coming to lay in
bed with her to do this audition. It just seemed
completely normal to me because that's how deep into her
world I was. So we had cameras and lights all
around her bed. Me and my producer and whoever else
(07:08):
were sitting there watching these actors come and go from
her apartment onto the bed, and we'd be like, that
one was good. Oh no, that one wasn't as good.
But when Tyler came on the bed when he was
a spooner, When Tyler was on the bed with her,
it was just magic. It was like it was this
(07:29):
chemistry and harmony that they were just riffing with each
other like good tennis players playing tennis. They were just
making each other. They were bringing out the best in
each other, you know, and making me laugh. And I
just looked at my producer and went, that's my mouth going,
Oh my gosh, and like basically going, it's him. Well,
(07:53):
you know he kind.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Of looks like you a little bit, wouldn't just say,
like a younger version of you?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Perhaps?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
You know. It's funny that you say that, because a
lot of people have said that and they're like, Oh,
he captures you. He is you, he looks like you,
he acts like You'm like, really, because I that's just
that's just chance. I mean, that's just incredible because we
didn't even we didn't even rehearse, we didn't have time.
We cast him, and then like I'm not even kidding,
(08:22):
it feels like less than a week later we started
filming and there was no time really to rehearse because
we were still auditioning other actors and getting other pieces
in place. And I just was like, I, you know,
he's got a script to memorize. Now, like, let's just
hope this all works.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yea.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
So I'm really I'm really happy that people see such
a connection between he and I. I love him by
the way, be oh, I.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Absore him and I absore the movie. And I was
just thinking, You've got so many wonderful connections. I mean,
you must know everyone in Hollywood.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yeah, no, we we lucked out, honestly, my first feature film,
and I have four Oscar nominated actors, one Oscar winner
Keith Carody, he won an Oscar for Nashville. Actually, so
I yeah, I have just this great array. You know,
it's kind of like making a movie. See, I'm a painter,
(09:16):
so I think of things in terms of making art.
And when you're making a painting in your art studio,
you have all you have fifty million colors to pick from,
and actors. I see them as like my special beautiful
tubes of paint. You know, I'm like, I want this color,
I want this, I want her, I want him, and
then you work them together into a composition that you know,
(09:40):
you hope and pray is going to be something beautiful.
And so thank you for responding so well to the film.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Oh and a lot of people responded well, Zack, I
think you won like you were the darling of the
film festival circuit.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
I'm just I'm just thrilled. Listen.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
It took a while, though.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, so far we've won almost forty film festival awards
and counting. But I think the greatest thing for any
creative person is to create something that an audience responds to,
you know, and emotionally connects with That's the best you
can hope for, whether it's a song and you're a musician,
(10:21):
or a painting or a film or a piece of writing,
whatever it is, and that you emotionally connect with it. Wow,
Like you know, I it's a joy. I feel like
I just gave birth to a baby. This film is
like a baby. And when you're making a movie, that
baby is you're pregnant for a few years, you know
(10:44):
what I mean. It's like an elephant. So you you know,
you finally give birth and you're really hoping and praying
that the world loves your baby and they are loving it.
Rob And I'm so happy.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, I know, it's so Sally. Was she improvising a
lot of her dialogue or did.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
You write most of her dialogue and then say, okay,
you can riff on that.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
She was off book, which means memorized every line about
I don't know. Three months before we started filming. She
it was incredible to me. I gave her the script.
You know, she's made hundreds of movies and hundreds of
TV shows, plus lots of theater and everything else. So
I was really, I shouldn't have been amazed, but I
(11:37):
was truly amazed that shortly after I gave her the script,
she knew every line and she knew every scene, and
she was like, she has she's had assistance post me
and they were there rehearsing with her and doing the
scenes with her right in front of me, which was
so surreal because They're actually saying the words that she
and I said to each other in two thousand and two.
(12:00):
Now I'm seeing it with these other people saying these lines,
and I'm going, this is I can't. I feel like
I'm is this real? It's not bizarre.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
There's also like a little side story here about Hollywood
assistants and what they are, what they really go through,
because I know a couple, Oh you do, and yes,
and you're not exaggerating at all.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I mean, inside, Skinny.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I will tell you I've been lucky because a lot
of Hollywood assistants have real horror stories, you know, having
food thrown out them, having you know, being treated like garbage,
just awful stuff. Sally was never mean to me. She's eccentric,
she's colorful, she's emotional. She can be high strung, but
(12:53):
she can but she was always very human with me.
And I worked for other celebrities and producers and people,
and compared to some of the really bad horror stories
I've heard, I've been pretty fortunate I worked actually in
true real life. I went from working from Sally Kirkland
(13:13):
to Henry Winkler and in the movie and Michael Levitt
their production partners, or they were, you know, they've produced
a lot together. In the movie of Sally Wood, I
leave Sally Kirkland for a character I named Ned Levitt
played by Michael Lerner in his very final film performance.
(13:34):
I know, and I'm honored actually that Michael Lerner gives
his final film performance in my little film, because I
loved Michael Lerner in ELF. I loved him. And the
Postman always rings twice, you know, Broadway so many movies
over the years. Oh Barton Fank was nominated for Best
(13:56):
Supporting Actor. So what I did was I combined Henry
Winkler and Michael Levitt and then added some fiction in
there too, and made this new character. I wanted him
to be a TV producer from a much older generation,
like almost a MERV Griffin type era guy. And he
is on his sixth wife, and he is an old
(14:19):
mogul who's kind of like about everything, and he was
the perfect actor for this role. But back to the
beginning of what I was saying, Henry Winkler was a
complete joy to work for.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I'm so happy to hear that.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, Oh, a complete joy. In fact, I'm reading his
autobiography right now. I'm so excited to read it. And
Michael Levitt and I are very close friends. So and
Henry and I are friends. So I feel very yeah,
and Sally and I are friends. For a while, I
worked for Tony Basil. Do you remember her tell me
first singer dancer?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yes, Katie.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
She actually contributes the theme song the in the opening
credits for Sallywood, which is a song she recorded in
the sixties, and it is it's just a really great
theme song. But yeah, I worked with a lot of
different people and they were all collectively really good experiences.
Thank god. Yeah, I do feel lucky that way because, oh,
(15:20):
you know, you hear the horror stories.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Ahh. Yeah, we're not going to mention names, but.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Writing obituaries have you become more adept at that since
you've worked for.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Sally, you know? I so, yeah, in the movie. The
first thing she ever had me do was write her obituary,
which I still couldn't wrap my head around why am
I writing this obituary? And we eventually moved away from
her writing her obituary and being fixated on that, but
I did find it recently. I found the original obituary
(15:58):
that I wrote with her or her in a file,
and I'm like, oh my gosh, this might end up
in the Smithsonian. I don't know what. But still it's
just and it's long because we kept adding to it
and just kept growing. It was just ridiculous how much
information was in there. I mean, an obituary is generally
(16:20):
a column or maybe at the most a page, and
this went on for pages, and yeah, you know, listen.
It's so it's not an easy life being an actor.
It can be a great life, but it can be
a very stressful life because no matter what level you are,
(16:43):
you're always pounding the pavement looking for that next gig,
hoping for that next gig, and you're at the mercy
of a lot of other people unless you are you know,
Cate Blanchette, maybe, I don't know. There's certain people maybe
who are the AA list, but there's plenty of other lists,
and believe me, I have a lot of actor friends.
(17:04):
It is a tough line of work, so.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Especially for women and as they get older.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Right, Yeah, And Sally's had the high highs and the
lo lows. And in one particular lo lo, which is
about the time I met her, she was like fixated
on her obituary. And I think Sally would the story
is this beautiful friendship story where I'm helping her navigate
(17:31):
her way back to living and wanting to work and
wanting to get back to where she'd like to be
at eighty. It's inspiring because there is you know, there's
an old saying you are not your age, you are
your energy. And I think Georgia O'Keefe said that, and honestly,
(17:54):
I love that you are your energy. We are our energy.
You can be eighty and have the umph of a
thirty year old.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Then I'm sixteen, Zach, Oh, yes.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
I thought you were. I thought maybe around there. I
wasn't sure. Sixteen seventeen.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, Arrested Development, it's my favorite show.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
One of my favorite lines, she says, medication is a
wonderful thing, much better than a facelift.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Is that something she actually said or did you write
that both.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Both? She said something like that and then I kind
of tweaked it. Yeah, Oh gosh, I've and believe me.
For all the funny Sally stories in this movie, there's
thousands more. There's so much every day. In fact, I
think during this interview she's already called me like, you
know five times. I'm you know, people say how long
(18:57):
were your assistant? I'm like, I think I'm still her assistant.
I don't know. I never really ended.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, so maybe there's a part too in the works,
if you will, there could be.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I do think that the way that the story evolves
on screen, there could be so many new avenues with
where to take it. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I
like that a lot. I'm more interested in life and
hope and friendship than I am about death or you know,
(19:34):
dark harrowing subject matter. I love comedy. I really only
want to work making comedies. I love people laughing in
an audience, and I feel like you can handle a
dark subject with humor and lightness and make it so
much more enjoyable and compelling.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Absolutely, have you thought ever about bringing this to this
because I think it is like perfect.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Wow, Rob, And that's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
For life theatrical.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I love that because there's a lot of interiors and
there's you know, a colorful.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I'll help you produce it.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
So what do you.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Hope audiences come away with after seeing Sally Wood? I
think you gave us a little hint, you know, a
couple of minutes ago.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But expand on that.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
What do I hope audiences come away with? Come away with?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah, I really feel like the audiences so far this
year have come away with a great warm feeling, a
great warm and a hopeful warmth. They also learn about
Sally Kirkland, and you know through the movie she's confused
with Sally Kellerman. She people don't quite know how to
(20:54):
place her. She feels forgotten about, and I feel like
here I am giving her a spotlight and a chance
for people to learn about this great woman of our
age who's basically she started with Andy Warhol in the
sixties in his experimental films, Yeah I mean, and then
(21:17):
working through every decade Charlie's Angels, Three's Company, all the
way into the nineties. She was on murder, she wrote,
she was on law and order. She was in Bruce
Almighty and now she was just an eighty for Brady
last year. There's there's a huge span of years there,
in decades that not many people can say. Yeah, I
(21:39):
started with Andy Warhol and I was just an eighty
for Brady and now Sally would which who knows how
far Sallywood can go? You know, with a one week
cinema engagement that we have upon us, we could we
qualify for awards season And wouldn't that be lovely? I
really feel in normal, mostly hopeful. I think audiences feel
(22:01):
that way when they come out of the film and
warm and good, like, Yeah, at any age I can
triumph and get back in the game.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Absolutely well, Zach, it was lovely speaking to you.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Have very happy holidays.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Thank you so much. Robin, you too. Yeah, and I
really appreciate this so much. Let's be in touch, definitely.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I don't know where I belong anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
You came into my life and you've brought me hope.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
God just be use the rest of the world forgot
about you. Doesn't mean I have
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Always new, always refreshing, always can't always billing about Robin
Milling delivers what celebrities are saying to you, you
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