July 16, 2025 • 24 mins
Sarah Harralson interviews producer and mixing engineer, Dale Penner about his career and process.
Connect with Dale Penner for mixing and production services below:
https://www.paradise-alley.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dalepenner/
Follow Sarah Harralson below:
https://sarahharralson.com/
Connect with Dale Penner for mixing and production services below:
https://www.paradise-alley.com/
https://www.instagram.com/dalepenner/
Follow Sarah Harralson below:
https://sarahharralson.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in today
to the Mind Your Music Business podcast. I can't believe it,
but we are already on season five of the podcast,
and today we are talking all things production with a
producer and mix engineer that I have been working with lately.
(00:26):
He produced my single Denham, and co produced and mixed
my upcoming single put Yourself in My Boots, which is
out on July eleventh. So Dale Pinner has decades of experience,
notably producing records such as Nickelback's first album, The State,
Lover Boys, Top Gun soundtrack hit Heaven in Your Eyes,
(00:49):
and has worked with Michael McDonald and is currently producing
records for an array of artists, including songs from Snap's
publishing artist You Are Worthy by Wendy moutin the Ring
by Garage Boys two three two by Delaney, and songs
by Andrew Salgado and Carson Alexander and many many more
(01:11):
to come. So Dale, thank you so much for being
here today.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I'm good, Sarah, how are you? Thank you for inviting
me to your podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Of course, thanks for being on it.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So I just want to start off by having you
tell the listeners how you got into.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Production and engineering.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Was it a path you always wanted to take, or
where you were a musician and maybe just stumbled upon it.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Well, I was. I always loved music and always always
part of my life.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
And my mom was a piano teacher, and I took
piano lessons from her, but at an earlier age became
really interested in the process of recording and going to
concerts and listening to records and figuring out how they
were made. So I moved to Vancouver, where I started
(02:10):
my career by banging on doors and trying to get
a job as an assistant engineer in a studio, And
at one point I was successful and got a job
at Mushroom Studios where artists like Heart and so on
we're recording. And I started off as an assistant engineer
and working the way up through the ranks to one
(02:34):
day I got a call to come in and record
a song with the Lover Boy, who was at the
height of their career at the time, and that opened some.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Doors for me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Nice and when you were working at Mushroom Studios, is
that how you met nickel Back?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I met Nickelback sometime later.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I started at Mushroom Studios for engineering there and then
eventually getting into production, and then I started. I had
a project that had some success with EMI Records up
here in Canada with a band called e Connlin Crush,
and I had developed a female artist named Holly McNarland
(03:17):
that and by this time I was working with a
management company in Los Angeles. I had a personal manager
there and my manager and I shopped as Holly McNarland
artist and for a deal and got her signed to
Universal Records. It was Daniel Glass's first signing at the
new Universal Records in New York, and she did super
(03:38):
well in Canada, and so I had a bit of
a reputation in where I lived in Vancouver as being
developing some great talent and you know, getting some leverage
into the US market. And that was also at the
time that bands like Motley, Cruze, Aerosmith, ac DC, all
of these artists were coming up to Vancouver to record
(03:59):
with Bruce Fairbirn and Bob Rock. So I was in
a hub of a lot of stuff going on. And
that's when I met the Nickelback Boys when their manager
called me and asked sent me a three song CD
and asked me if i'd be interested in coming.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
To a rehearsal.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So I want to talk to you about your pre
production process so you quote in your biography before even
going into the studio, I am also a part of
the pre production process, making sure to get to know
the artist or band, working on arrangements with them. It's
all about input, commitment, and having a dialogue with each other.
(04:40):
Many producers take the reins where they pretty much play
every instrument themselves and.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Put their own stamp on the music.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
My position on that is this will only make you
sound like every other band unquote. I couldn't agree more
with this, especially to modern technology age where there's so
many producers out there just trying to stamp out as
many songs as they can per week, and you know,
(05:10):
some of them, at least in my experience, will do
like a short call with the artist and then boom,
it's done like a week later, with the producer.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Doing all of the instruments on the song.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
So I really appreciate the amount of time you spend
with an artist to make sure that the song is
their own and that it's being developed within their vision.
So why do you think it's so important spending so
much time with the artists during the production process.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
That's a good question and something I think I just,
you know, I developed that from a very early part
in my career where I worked with some producers like
David Tickle who worked on a couple of U two
albums and stuff like that, and I just that's what
they did. They were there, like the pre production process
was like they would come into town a week before
(06:02):
the studio was booked and start working with the band.
So I I saw where where it made it, where
it made a difference on a couple levels, and for
me on the on the personal level. You know, when
you go into produce uh an artist's music, you they
are really letting you into their creative space, which is
pretty personal for a lot of them. So I think
(06:23):
it's important to get to know the artists outside the
studio because when they come to the studio, they're kind
of in my environment. And when I meet them outside
the studio, like go to a show, go to a rehearsal,
go out for a beer or whatever, I'm kind of
getting to know them outside of their just their songwriting
and everything. Because a lot of artists that you see
(06:44):
on stage are not like that. Personally they have they're
they're they're a different there can be a different personality.
So I try and get to learn a bit about
the artists, partly because I think it's gonna it's going
to help me to know how to produce them, like
which buttons to push basically when I read something or
where I you know, when something I think could be better.
(07:05):
So I think it's important on that level. In terms
of the songs, you know, you need you hire a
producer to have an outside opinion on your on your
material and I and there's certain things that that with
with song development that needs to happen before you record them,
because for the most part, you can't after you've really
(07:27):
recorded the song. So getting together and hearing their songs
and listening to them and giving them feedback on you know,
what if this course was like that, or what if
this song had a bridge and just all kinds of
stuff that they probably didn't think of because they wrote
the song, uh and they so on that on that,
you know, in terms of songs. That's that's why I
(07:49):
think it's important as far as working with the band
and not just doing everything you know, myself, or getting
one person that comes in plays everything. I think that's
that just does That might work for some pop pop
artists that are very teeny, like teen pop or something.
(08:10):
But I prefer to deal with the hand and un
dealt And that's because there's a there's a chemistry there
and even if they might not be as you know,
as good a player as the you know, somebody you
might bring into to play all these parts, they the
chemistry of having everybody together is what makes the band.
(08:33):
And I work with a lot of bands, so that's
part of why I feel as super important to get
uh and not every song needs the same. So if
you're if you have a if you have a kind
of a production template, I think you're you're missing out
on the opportunity to really figure out who can what
person can do this to the song. I mean, Sarah
(08:55):
and I were just talking about this a few minutes
ago for about one of her songs, like who's going
to be the best person to add a fiddle track
to this? You know, so I don't use the same
fiddle player for all tracks or the same guitar player.
Really find somebody to to, you know, to fit the mold.
And a lot of times that's just you know, taking
(09:15):
the band and going with what they have and then
embellishing it by bringing somebody else in.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, And we've done the same in the past. With guitar,
We've used someone who has more of a rock edge
that would make sense for that song, and then if
we want to go more country, we use someone who's
a little bit more country. So I think it is
important to use different people. And it does depend on
the genre because you're talking like straight pop or hip hop,
(09:43):
then you're probably going to use mostly tracks. But in
your career, you started off working primarily in the rock genre,
So what made you expand into working in other genres
such as pop and country? And do you have a
different process for each genre you're working with.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
There's a slightly different process, but I would say for
the most part, it's it's very similar. It's the it's
get to know the artists, get to hear the songs,
help develop the songs, get everything worked out, and then
before you go to the studio, uh, and then record.
I mean there's certain situations with Sarah, with you Sarah,
for example, where you you know you have you had
(10:27):
you have a drummer, but the other people we kind
of filled in. So in that case, that would be
that would be part of that excuse me, that would
be part of that process.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Do you have a favorite genre you like producing? Is
it rock?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I like rock?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I don't know if it's it's a favorite, but you know,
I think I I it was partly because you know,
when I produced Nickelback and they and they just became
so successful, I just got a lot of calls to
produce artists that sounded a bit like them or wanted
to have their you know, success or we're heavy rock.
(11:05):
And then a lot of the pop stuff started getting
to be really computer driven, programmed, that sort of thing,
and I think that's what kind of really made me
sort of turn towards doing some more country stuff or
Americana because it kind of brought me back to where
what the bit you know they make? Right, those kind
(11:26):
of genres tend to make records a bit differently in
that they get a band together and they play, they
perform it, they don't piece it together with a computer.
And that's you know, I started out as a recording engineer.
That's the way records were made, and so I think
I just decided that, Okay, I'm going to go o,
I'm going to try and work on some of this
(11:46):
stuff because I'll be able to use the skills that
I developed with artists, you know, recognizing great performances and
doing all of those things in a genre where people
are setting up, you know, for people in a room
and everything up and playing it.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
So that's that's what motivated me to do it.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
And then you know, I started did a couple and
started getting a few more calls to do some and
now it's a big chunk of my workflow.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, And you also have worked in sound designing and
post mixing and films. So how is it different mixing
for films versus like a single for the radio.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Well, mixing a single for the radio is like a
creative experience. Working something for film is a bit more
like a day job the way kind of the way
the way I see it. In fact, I'm just finishing
up a twenty minute short feature film that's going to
be you know, one of those blasts that you see
in the theaters before, you know, before your movie starts
and whatever else. And this was like, it's different because
(12:53):
you have all of these tracks of dialogue and they're
recorded in different environments.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
So part of the processes editing.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
And fixing the the you know, the technical problems with
the dialogue recording, and then it's a matter of there's
a lot of that room ambience changes, so you're just
dealing with a whole set of the whole different set
of a whole different set of parameters.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
The fun part.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Is when you you know, put in sound effects, Like
this film I'm mixing right now is about a shooting
episode in an office, so there's lots of uh, you know,
people falling down, bleeding, gunshots, banging, glass breaking, so that
that kind of you know there there's there is definitely
(13:40):
an art to getting the audio mix right for a
film because it does make the h it does it
does add to the what's you know, the on screen
impact of the visuals.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
But it's just different.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
You're just dealing with you know, you don't you know,
with mixing music, you might be dealing with some tuning
problem on a guitar or some other things, a sixty
cycle hum when you're taking When I'm doing film and stuff,
it's it's more, you know, creating even room tones so
that the ambience stays the same. Fixing the dialogue and
just getting everybody's you know, voices sound like they're in
(14:14):
the same room, even though different mics or whatever.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Right, it's a bit more, it's a bit more of
a fixed thing.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And so do do they already send you like the
audio for gunshot, sound effects that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Or do you ever create it yourself?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I'd say fifty to fifty. Sometimes I'll get all of
that stuff. Like I'll get like it'll be like twenty
tracks or thirty tracks, you know, ten tracks of dialogue,
sound effects tracks, fully tracks, and the odd time I'll
add some stuff, you know, if I get into mixing
the film and I feel like that something needs a
bit more impact going from one scene to the next,
(14:51):
or you know, somebody's getting you know, ripping around in
a car and burning out. It's got to it can't
just sound like I'm like yourophone fifty feet away has
got to sound that. It's got to be an intensity
to it. So, right, there's some of that. There's a
little bit of everything.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Really.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, very cool.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So since the beginning of your career, technology and music
has evolved so much. You're not based in Nashville, but
it's great because we can utilize a software called session
Wire and do remote sessions from our studios, which can
save a lot of time and money instead of you know,
having to fly out producers from you know, wherever they
(15:34):
live to studios nowadays. So can you explain to the
listeners how session Wire is different from maybe using Zoom
for instance, for a remote session.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Sure, session Wire is developed by people that worked through
the studio, grew up in the studio process, so it's
intuitive for people that are familiar with the recording environment.
It's it's it is like Zoom in terms. It has
a video component, but connected to that is a is
(16:07):
a high resolution audio playback. So I can I can
be For for example, a project that actually that Sarah
and I did over a year ago with danim there
was I had a travel issue, I couldn't come to Nashville,
and so we set up session wire session at the studio,
(16:30):
putting a putting a camera in the studio room, putting
a camera in the control room, hooking up talkback mics
to every musician with a foot switch, and so on and.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
So on, and it's and it is kind of like
being there.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I can I can uh the audio I get coming
into my studio here from the Zoom app is full
high res audio. I get exactly what they're hearing in
the control room. If the engineers solos a snare drum
in the control room, that's what I hear in here.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
So it's a.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Great way to manage a session like that. And when
the artists kind of get warmed up to it and
get familiar with it, they tend to realize that it's
not really and it's not really impeding the process at all.
In some ways, it's making it better. And I'll explain
that in a minute, But yeah, you can go in
(17:24):
there and listen to it, produce the session, and it
saves It can save money, like you were saying, in
terms of travel expenses. But I think the big thing
about it is for me is I get to have
access to projects that I might not have access to,
and also I get to have musicians play on my
(17:46):
projects that I might not have access to, because pretty
much everybody has a recording rink of some kind at
home if you're in the game. So that's there's lots
of pluses. When a lot of my work is mixed related,
I will just mix for projects. A lot of times
things I didn't really produce or record. It's great for
that I could do mixed revisions, like the person is
sitting right beside me, and they can listen to the
(18:09):
mixed playback in their own listening environment, whether it's you know,
in their studio, on their headphones, on their phone, you know,
wherever they make their wherever they make their choices. So
it's it's it's been a like you say, the technology
has changed a lot, and I've reinvented myself several times,
and this is I kind of feel pretty pretty darn
excited about the way technology is going now.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, well it's been a great tool because we've already
had you know, people doing remote work from their home studios.
But this is nice because you can do it, you know,
over session wire with someone. Rather than me sending all
my tracks to you you giving your notes, I'd take,
(18:53):
you know, my own time to do revisions. Instead, you're
listening in real time, so you can just say, I
think I'd rather have that before a musician spends their
whole time doing all these tracks that aren't in the
right direction for the song, right.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I use it for pre production too. It's it's a
great you know, you can you can whether it's doing
a session wire call from a band's rehearsal studio. You mean,
you can literally do it on your phone. So it's
it's it's just another great tool to have in the toolbox.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
It is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
How else has technology changed for your process? Do you
mix and produce more in the box now or do
you still utilize a lot of outboard gear?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Uh, I've I've I've in the last three or four years,
I've changed to mixing pretty much in the box. Up
until then, I would I used a need summing mixer,
But now the technology has really come so far that
the computer sounds really good.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
I mean I have I use great mic preamps.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
That's that's really an important quality that you're you know,
don't just plug into your focus right red mic preamp,
your tune a dollar interface. I mean you can, but
if you're mixed, you know, you need to use the
things outside the box that are that are still really
important and I think mike pre amp things like that.
A lot of the other processing in the box is
(20:19):
really good for me. The main thing that made me
switch over to mixing in the box h two things actually,
and like I mentioned, the audio quality has really gotten
to be fantastic. Sample rates are higher, all of that
kind of kind of kind of stuff. But my recalls
are now exact and used to drive my mastering engineer
(20:41):
crazy when I call them up. You know, I'd want
to do a little tweaker on on something and man
to get the recall process was lengthy and so the
that has that that has helped, you know, with the
things being much sounding, much better in the box.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Right, And I think last time I talked to you,
you mentioned cloudlifter is a good option for a pre amp.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Cloudlifter is a it's like a game booster for a
certain kind of microphone. Okay, yes, sure, SM seven mic
which a lot of people use, very popular. I use
it on vocals, electric guitars. It's a very low output microphone.
And they've come up with a cloudlifter which which boosts
a gain. As far as pre amps go, I use
(21:31):
either a Universal Audio two pre amp. I have a
Summit two pre amp. I have a Chandler it's called
the abbey Road reissue. It's kind of modeled after the
abbey Road console. It's it sounds really good. And these
are all high end, high end pre amps. And you
can just plug them straight into the line input of
your whatever interface you're using.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So do you for anyone who's listening, maybe they're a
producer or starting out is one. Do you have any
quick advice for people who are getting into production?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Uh, work hard like any other, Like any other job.
Get to know some artists if you're if you're just
starting out and you're trying to develop your your resume
of tracks that you've produced, go around to some clubs.
Find some cool bands that you that you know, think
have a sound that you would that you could, uh
(22:31):
you know, contribute to and offer to produce them for free.
Take them you go, say, you guys are in a studio,
I'll donate my time. And however, just kind of start
developing some content like that. If you have the opportunity
to work alongside somebody that's already doing it, uh, somebody
(22:52):
that's doing what you want to do in five years,
by all means, try and get in that. I mean
I learned an awful lot by being in this listed
engineer and then an engineer, but just the whole time
working with you know, well known successful producers to come
in and I learned a ton, So if you can
get in on those sessions, that's going to you know,
(23:13):
that's going to be your best, best way to pick
up some cool tricks.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's also great advice that you
mentioned earlier. Just to spend a lot of time and
pre production with the artist and getting to know them.
I think that's really important. So thank you so much
for being here today, Dale. How can people find you
if they want to work with you? Maybe there's some
(23:40):
artists listening that are looking for production on their songs.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Sure, my website is Paradise Hyphenali dot com. My social
media is at Dale Panner. You can get hold of
me through my website. If you just google my name,
you'll probably get my website near the top of the
search engines.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
And yeah, please do.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I'm always interested in finding new artists and seeing what
people are up to.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Perfect I am going to link your website in the
liner notes for listeners and everyone who's listening, be sure
to listen to Good Girls by Carson Alexander, which is
out on July seventh, and Dale was the mixing engineer
on that and my own song put Yourself in My
Boots that Dale produced that will be and mixed and
(24:29):
that will be on all streaming platforms on July eleventh.
So thank you so much, Dale, thank you Sarah,
Hi everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in today
to the Mind Your Music Business podcast. I can't believe it,
but we are already on season five of the podcast,
and today we are talking all things production with a
producer and mix engineer that I have been working with lately.
(00:26):
He produced my single Denham, and co produced and mixed
my upcoming single put Yourself in My Boots, which is
out on July eleventh. So Dale Pinner has decades of experience,
notably producing records such as Nickelback's first album, The State,
Lover Boys, Top Gun soundtrack hit Heaven in Your Eyes,
(00:49):
and has worked with Michael McDonald and is currently producing
records for an array of artists, including songs from Snap's
publishing artist You Are Worthy by Wendy moutin the Ring
by Garage Boys two three two by Delaney, and songs
by Andrew Salgado and Carson Alexander and many many more
(01:11):
to come. So Dale, thank you so much for being
here today.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I'm good, Sarah, how are you? Thank you for inviting
me to your podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Of course, thanks for being on it.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So I just want to start off by having you
tell the listeners how you got into.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Production and engineering.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Was it a path you always wanted to take, or
where you were a musician and maybe just stumbled upon it.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Well, I was. I always loved music and always always
part of my life.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
And my mom was a piano teacher, and I took
piano lessons from her, but at an earlier age became
really interested in the process of recording and going to
concerts and listening to records and figuring out how they
were made. So I moved to Vancouver, where I started
(02:10):
my career by banging on doors and trying to get
a job as an assistant engineer in a studio, And
at one point I was successful and got a job
at Mushroom Studios where artists like Heart and so on
we're recording. And I started off as an assistant engineer
and working the way up through the ranks to one
(02:34):
day I got a call to come in and record
a song with the Lover Boy, who was at the
height of their career at the time, and that opened some.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Doors for me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Nice and when you were working at Mushroom Studios, is
that how you met nickel Back?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
I met Nickelback sometime later.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I started at Mushroom Studios for engineering there and then
eventually getting into production, and then I started. I had
a project that had some success with EMI Records up
here in Canada with a band called e Connlin Crush,
and I had developed a female artist named Holly McNarland
(03:17):
that and by this time I was working with a
management company in Los Angeles. I had a personal manager
there and my manager and I shopped as Holly McNarland
artist and for a deal and got her signed to
Universal Records. It was Daniel Glass's first signing at the
new Universal Records in New York, and she did super
(03:38):
well in Canada, and so I had a bit of
a reputation in where I lived in Vancouver as being
developing some great talent and you know, getting some leverage
into the US market. And that was also at the
time that bands like Motley, Cruze, Aerosmith, ac DC, all
of these artists were coming up to Vancouver to record
(03:59):
with Bruce Fairbirn and Bob Rock. So I was in
a hub of a lot of stuff going on. And
that's when I met the Nickelback Boys when their manager
called me and asked sent me a three song CD
and asked me if i'd be interested in coming.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
To a rehearsal.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So I want to talk to you about your pre
production process so you quote in your biography before even
going into the studio, I am also a part of
the pre production process, making sure to get to know
the artist or band, working on arrangements with them. It's
all about input, commitment, and having a dialogue with each other.
(04:40):
Many producers take the reins where they pretty much play
every instrument themselves and.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Put their own stamp on the music.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
My position on that is this will only make you
sound like every other band unquote. I couldn't agree more
with this, especially to modern technology age where there's so
many producers out there just trying to stamp out as
many songs as they can per week, and you know,
(05:10):
some of them, at least in my experience, will do
like a short call with the artist and then boom,
it's done like a week later, with the producer.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Doing all of the instruments on the song.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
So I really appreciate the amount of time you spend
with an artist to make sure that the song is
their own and that it's being developed within their vision.
So why do you think it's so important spending so
much time with the artists during the production process.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
That's a good question and something I think I just,
you know, I developed that from a very early part
in my career where I worked with some producers like
David Tickle who worked on a couple of U two
albums and stuff like that, and I just that's what
they did. They were there, like the pre production process
was like they would come into town a week before
(06:02):
the studio was booked and start working with the band.
So I I saw where where it made it, where
it made a difference on a couple levels, and for
me on the on the personal level. You know, when
you go into produce uh an artist's music, you they
are really letting you into their creative space, which is
pretty personal for a lot of them. So I think
(06:23):
it's important to get to know the artists outside the
studio because when they come to the studio, they're kind
of in my environment. And when I meet them outside
the studio, like go to a show, go to a rehearsal,
go out for a beer or whatever, I'm kind of
getting to know them outside of their just their songwriting
and everything. Because a lot of artists that you see
(06:44):
on stage are not like that. Personally they have they're
they're they're a different there can be a different personality.
So I try and get to learn a bit about
the artists, partly because I think it's gonna it's going
to help me to know how to produce them, like
which buttons to push basically when I read something or
where I you know, when something I think could be better.
(07:05):
So I think it's important on that level. In terms
of the songs, you know, you need you hire a
producer to have an outside opinion on your on your
material and I and there's certain things that that with
with song development that needs to happen before you record them,
because for the most part, you can't after you've really
(07:27):
recorded the song. So getting together and hearing their songs
and listening to them and giving them feedback on you know,
what if this course was like that, or what if
this song had a bridge and just all kinds of
stuff that they probably didn't think of because they wrote
the song, uh and they so on that on that,
you know, in terms of songs. That's that's why I
(07:49):
think it's important as far as working with the band
and not just doing everything you know, myself, or getting
one person that comes in plays everything. I think that's
that just does That might work for some pop pop
artists that are very teeny, like teen pop or something.
(08:10):
But I prefer to deal with the hand and un
dealt And that's because there's a there's a chemistry there
and even if they might not be as you know,
as good a player as the you know, somebody you
might bring into to play all these parts, they the
chemistry of having everybody together is what makes the band.
(08:33):
And I work with a lot of bands, so that's
part of why I feel as super important to get
uh and not every song needs the same. So if
you're if you have a if you have a kind
of a production template, I think you're you're missing out
on the opportunity to really figure out who can what
person can do this to the song. I mean, Sarah
(08:55):
and I were just talking about this a few minutes
ago for about one of her songs, like who's going
to be the best person to add a fiddle track
to this? You know, so I don't use the same
fiddle player for all tracks or the same guitar player.
Really find somebody to to, you know, to fit the mold.
And a lot of times that's just you know, taking
(09:15):
the band and going with what they have and then
embellishing it by bringing somebody else in.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, And we've done the same in the past. With guitar,
We've used someone who has more of a rock edge
that would make sense for that song, and then if
we want to go more country, we use someone who's
a little bit more country. So I think it is
important to use different people. And it does depend on
the genre because you're talking like straight pop or hip hop,
(09:43):
then you're probably going to use mostly tracks. But in
your career, you started off working primarily in the rock genre,
So what made you expand into working in other genres
such as pop and country? And do you have a
different process for each genre you're working with.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
There's a slightly different process, but I would say for
the most part, it's it's very similar. It's the it's
get to know the artists, get to hear the songs,
help develop the songs, get everything worked out, and then
before you go to the studio, uh, and then record.
I mean there's certain situations with Sarah, with you Sarah,
for example, where you you know you have you had
(10:27):
you have a drummer, but the other people we kind
of filled in. So in that case, that would be
that would be part of that excuse me, that would
be part of that process.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Do you have a favorite genre you like producing? Is
it rock?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I like rock?
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I don't know if it's it's a favorite, but you know,
I think I I it was partly because you know,
when I produced Nickelback and they and they just became
so successful, I just got a lot of calls to
produce artists that sounded a bit like them or wanted
to have their you know, success or we're heavy rock.
(11:05):
And then a lot of the pop stuff started getting
to be really computer driven, programmed, that sort of thing,
and I think that's what kind of really made me
sort of turn towards doing some more country stuff or
Americana because it kind of brought me back to where
what the bit you know they make? Right, those kind
(11:26):
of genres tend to make records a bit differently in
that they get a band together and they play, they
perform it, they don't piece it together with a computer.
And that's you know, I started out as a recording engineer.
That's the way records were made, and so I think
I just decided that, Okay, I'm going to go o,
I'm going to try and work on some of this
(11:46):
stuff because I'll be able to use the skills that
I developed with artists, you know, recognizing great performances and
doing all of those things in a genre where people
are setting up, you know, for people in a room
and everything up and playing it.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
So that's that's what motivated me to do it.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
And then you know, I started did a couple and
started getting a few more calls to do some and
now it's a big chunk of my workflow.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, And you also have worked in sound designing and
post mixing and films. So how is it different mixing
for films versus like a single for the radio.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Well, mixing a single for the radio is like a
creative experience. Working something for film is a bit more
like a day job the way kind of the way
the way I see it. In fact, I'm just finishing
up a twenty minute short feature film that's going to
be you know, one of those blasts that you see
in the theaters before, you know, before your movie starts
and whatever else. And this was like, it's different because
(12:53):
you have all of these tracks of dialogue and they're
recorded in different environments.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
So part of the processes editing.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
And fixing the the you know, the technical problems with
the dialogue recording, and then it's a matter of there's
a lot of that room ambience changes, so you're just
dealing with a whole set of the whole different set
of a whole different set of parameters.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
The fun part.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Is when you you know, put in sound effects, Like
this film I'm mixing right now is about a shooting
episode in an office, so there's lots of uh, you know,
people falling down, bleeding, gunshots, banging, glass breaking, so that
that kind of you know there there's there is definitely
(13:40):
an art to getting the audio mix right for a
film because it does make the h it does it
does add to the what's you know, the on screen
impact of the visuals.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
But it's just different.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
You're just dealing with you know, you don't you know,
with mixing music, you might be dealing with some tuning
problem on a guitar or some other things, a sixty
cycle hum when you're taking When I'm doing film and stuff,
it's it's more, you know, creating even room tones so
that the ambience stays the same. Fixing the dialogue and
just getting everybody's you know, voices sound like they're in
(14:14):
the same room, even though different mics or whatever.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Right, it's a bit more, it's a bit more of
a fixed thing.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And so do do they already send you like the
audio for gunshot, sound effects that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Or do you ever create it yourself?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I'd say fifty to fifty. Sometimes I'll get all of
that stuff. Like I'll get like it'll be like twenty
tracks or thirty tracks, you know, ten tracks of dialogue,
sound effects tracks, fully tracks, and the odd time I'll
add some stuff, you know, if I get into mixing
the film and I feel like that something needs a
bit more impact going from one scene to the next,
(14:51):
or you know, somebody's getting you know, ripping around in
a car and burning out. It's got to it can't
just sound like I'm like yourophone fifty feet away has
got to sound that. It's got to be an intensity
to it. So, right, there's some of that. There's a
little bit of everything.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Really.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, very cool.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So since the beginning of your career, technology and music
has evolved so much. You're not based in Nashville, but
it's great because we can utilize a software called session
Wire and do remote sessions from our studios, which can
save a lot of time and money instead of you know,
having to fly out producers from you know, wherever they
(15:34):
live to studios nowadays. So can you explain to the
listeners how session Wire is different from maybe using Zoom
for instance, for a remote session.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Sure, session Wire is developed by people that worked through
the studio, grew up in the studio process, so it's
intuitive for people that are familiar with the recording environment.
It's it's it is like Zoom in terms. It has
a video component, but connected to that is a is
(16:07):
a high resolution audio playback. So I can I can
be For for example, a project that actually that Sarah
and I did over a year ago with danim there
was I had a travel issue, I couldn't come to Nashville,
and so we set up session wire session at the studio,
(16:30):
putting a putting a camera in the studio room, putting
a camera in the control room, hooking up talkback mics
to every musician with a foot switch, and so on and.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
So on, and it's and it is kind of like
being there.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I can I can uh the audio I get coming
into my studio here from the Zoom app is full
high res audio. I get exactly what they're hearing in
the control room. If the engineers solos a snare drum
in the control room, that's what I hear in here.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
So it's a.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Great way to manage a session like that. And when
the artists kind of get warmed up to it and
get familiar with it, they tend to realize that it's
not really and it's not really impeding the process at all.
In some ways, it's making it better. And I'll explain
that in a minute, But yeah, you can go in
(17:24):
there and listen to it, produce the session, and it
saves It can save money, like you were saying, in
terms of travel expenses. But I think the big thing
about it is for me is I get to have
access to projects that I might not have access to,
and also I get to have musicians play on my
(17:46):
projects that I might not have access to, because pretty
much everybody has a recording rink of some kind at
home if you're in the game. So that's there's lots
of pluses. When a lot of my work is mixed related,
I will just mix for projects. A lot of times
things I didn't really produce or record. It's great for
that I could do mixed revisions, like the person is
sitting right beside me, and they can listen to the
(18:09):
mixed playback in their own listening environment, whether it's you know,
in their studio, on their headphones, on their phone, you know,
wherever they make their wherever they make their choices. So
it's it's it's been a like you say, the technology
has changed a lot, and I've reinvented myself several times,
and this is I kind of feel pretty pretty darn
excited about the way technology is going now.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, well it's been a great tool because we've already
had you know, people doing remote work from their home studios.
But this is nice because you can do it, you know,
over session wire with someone. Rather than me sending all
my tracks to you you giving your notes, I'd take,
(18:53):
you know, my own time to do revisions. Instead, you're
listening in real time, so you can just say, I
think I'd rather have that before a musician spends their
whole time doing all these tracks that aren't in the
right direction for the song, right.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
I use it for pre production too. It's it's a
great you know, you can you can whether it's doing
a session wire call from a band's rehearsal studio. You mean,
you can literally do it on your phone. So it's
it's it's just another great tool to have in the toolbox.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
It is. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
How else has technology changed for your process? Do you
mix and produce more in the box now or do
you still utilize a lot of outboard gear?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Uh, I've I've I've in the last three or four years,
I've changed to mixing pretty much in the box. Up
until then, I would I used a need summing mixer,
But now the technology has really come so far that
the computer sounds really good.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
I mean I have I use great mic preamps.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
That's that's really an important quality that you're you know,
don't just plug into your focus right red mic preamp,
your tune a dollar interface. I mean you can, but
if you're mixed, you know, you need to use the
things outside the box that are that are still really
important and I think mike pre amp things like that.
A lot of the other processing in the box is
(20:19):
really good for me. The main thing that made me
switch over to mixing in the box h two things actually,
and like I mentioned, the audio quality has really gotten
to be fantastic. Sample rates are higher, all of that
kind of kind of kind of stuff. But my recalls
are now exact and used to drive my mastering engineer
(20:41):
crazy when I call them up. You know, I'd want
to do a little tweaker on on something and man
to get the recall process was lengthy and so the
that has that that has helped, you know, with the
things being much sounding, much better in the box.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Right, And I think last time I talked to you,
you mentioned cloudlifter is a good option for a pre amp.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Cloudlifter is a it's like a game booster for a
certain kind of microphone. Okay, yes, sure, SM seven mic
which a lot of people use, very popular. I use
it on vocals, electric guitars. It's a very low output microphone.
And they've come up with a cloudlifter which which boosts
a gain. As far as pre amps go, I use
(21:31):
either a Universal Audio two pre amp. I have a
Summit two pre amp. I have a Chandler it's called
the abbey Road reissue. It's kind of modeled after the
abbey Road console. It's it sounds really good. And these
are all high end, high end pre amps. And you
can just plug them straight into the line input of
your whatever interface you're using.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So do you for anyone who's listening, maybe they're a
producer or starting out is one. Do you have any
quick advice for people who are getting into production?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Uh, work hard like any other, Like any other job.
Get to know some artists if you're if you're just
starting out and you're trying to develop your your resume
of tracks that you've produced, go around to some clubs.
Find some cool bands that you that you know, think
have a sound that you would that you could, uh
(22:31):
you know, contribute to and offer to produce them for free.
Take them you go, say, you guys are in a studio,
I'll donate my time. And however, just kind of start
developing some content like that. If you have the opportunity
to work alongside somebody that's already doing it, uh, somebody
(22:52):
that's doing what you want to do in five years,
by all means, try and get in that. I mean
I learned an awful lot by being in this listed
engineer and then an engineer, but just the whole time
working with you know, well known successful producers to come
in and I learned a ton, So if you can
get in on those sessions, that's going to you know,
(23:13):
that's going to be your best, best way to pick
up some cool tricks.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's also great advice that you
mentioned earlier. Just to spend a lot of time and
pre production with the artist and getting to know them.
I think that's really important. So thank you so much
for being here today, Dale. How can people find you
if they want to work with you? Maybe there's some
(23:40):
artists listening that are looking for production on their songs.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Sure, my website is Paradise Hyphenali dot com. My social
media is at Dale Panner. You can get hold of
me through my website. If you just google my name,
you'll probably get my website near the top of the
search engines.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
And yeah, please do.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I'm always interested in finding new artists and seeing what
people are up to.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Perfect I am going to link your website in the
liner notes for listeners and everyone who's listening, be sure
to listen to Good Girls by Carson Alexander, which is
out on July seventh, and Dale was the mixing engineer
on that and my own song put Yourself in My
Boots that Dale produced that will be and mixed and
(24:29):
that will be on all streaming platforms on July eleventh.
So thank you so much, Dale, thank you Sarah,
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