March 23, 2025 • 38 mins
Today I speak with Recording Academy member, Gabi Grella about mastering and her career as a mastering engineer.
Contact Gabi here to inquire about mastering services for your next project:
https://www.gabigrellamastering.com/
Contact Gabi here to inquire about mastering services for your next project:
https://www.gabigrellamastering.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi everyone, This is your host Sarah Harrelson, and today
on the Mind Your Music Business podcast, we have with
us fellow Recording Academy member Gabby Grella, a mastering engineer
from New Jersey. At only the age of twenty six,
she has worked on over one thousand songs, including Kesha's
(00:27):
Gag Order live acoustic EP, meet Me Next Christmas by Pentatonics,
and Love the Way I Love You by Citizen Queen,
just to name a few. She graduated from NYU's Clive
Davis Institute of Recorded Music, has worked at Sterling Sound,
and is also a singer songwriter. And this is my
favorite line from your bio while I was reading it.
(00:49):
Being a mastering engineer in an extremely male dominated sector
of the music industry is not always easy, and she
hopes to make every future woman's engineering path easier and
more accessible.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I love that. Thank you for being on the podcast today, Gavi.
How are you good?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be
talking to you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So, your education at NYU mentioned that it covered production, mixing,
and business. So what ultimately made you decide you wanted
to be a mastering engineer as opposed to a mixing
engineer or a producer, right.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
A big part of that was that I took a
tour of Sterling Sound. They were still in New York,
and Sterling Sound is a very prestigious mastering company, if
anybody doesn't know that. And it was through a summer
high school course at NYU. So I was a junior
in high school going into senior year. I didn't know
(01:51):
basically anything about the music industry. I didn't even know
that mastering or anything about.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
The audio world in general.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I don't know what I thought happened to a song
before it was on my Spotify, but I just didn't
even like I just didn't even think about it. And
we got to tour that studio and listen to a
couple of songs and just kind of learned about what mastering.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Was, and I really took a liking to it.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I started dabbling a bit on my own, and then
when I went to college, we kind of, as you said,
it was a very holistic curriculum, so I learned pretty
much everything there is to know in the music industry.
But then I found myself really liking the mixing classes
and the recording classes and more things on the engineering side,
(02:38):
and then I was able to take a mastering course,
and I just sort of felt like that was a
good spot for me. I would like I used to
beg my friends to let me master stuff for them,
almost to the point of I'll pay you just let
me practice when I was in college. So it felt
like a good combination of my enjoyment of engineering and
(03:03):
I sort of i started doing it. I feel like
I wasn't bad at it, so I was like, let's
give this, Let's give this a go. So that's how
I kind of narrowed in on it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, And for those who are listening who maybe don't
fully understand what mastering is or why it's important for
the final stage of production of a song, can you
just briefly explain what mastering does to a mix and
why it's so important in the final stage of production.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Absolutely, So mastering is, as you just mentioned, the last
stage of making a song, so we are the last
people to touch it before it goes onto streaming, radio,
whatever platform. And a big part of mastering is you
always hear of the loudness wars. If you don't know
what the loudness wars are, it's basically.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Songs just keep getting.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Louder and louder, because a big thing with loudness is
that perceived perceived loudness is that you hear something louder
and you think it's better, like it equates to better.
So our job is to make sure that your releases
as an artist are competitive with other releases that are
out right now. And there's a bunch of different guidelines
(04:15):
for that, which is really boring and nobody wants to
hear about it.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
But there are certain.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Levels or specs that we have to fill to, like,
you know, fulfill that quota and make sure that it
is on the same competitive level as other songs. And
we're also just like the last pair of ears listen
to something. So I find myself just doing final tweaks.
I take a very i don't want to say, a
(04:44):
backseat role, but I'm not going in there being like, okay,
I need to fix everything, like it's it's very much
that I understand that everyone from before me likes the mix,
is happy where the mix is, so I'm not trying
to go in there and change things.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I'm just trying to enhance. So maybe I'll do just
a little. I do very, very.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Small EQ moves like it is so minimal sometimes but
I hear the difference and it I think keeps it.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Really true to the mix.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
That kind of that was a long way of answering
the question, but it's yeah, final tweaks loudness. We do
a lot of different formatting, so for CDs, vinyl like well,
we handle all of that as well. And something that
I always kind of equate it to is baking. So
(05:34):
for mixing, you're literally you're at you're measuring up the
ingredients very specific. You're you're deciding how much cinnamon and
how much flour, how much X y Z goes in
the oven. Mastering is like cake comes out. I have cake,
like I can't go back and you know, add more
cinnamon to it. Like it's kind of what's there is there,
(05:55):
and so my job is to add maybe some icy,
maybe some sprinkle. It's like, you know, just little finishing
details at look and sound good to outside people and
make it, you know, stand out as opposed to may
be a cake that doesn't.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Have any icing on it. It's going to be more appealing,
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, I love that analogy because I always think of
mastering as like the chef's kiss, so like the icing
on the cake that exactly.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, it's silly, but especially for stereo mastering, some people
do stem mastering, so it'll be I find that to
be basically just mixing.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Against that, I prefer.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
To do, like I tell, you know, people should they
should trust in the mix, you know, like you got it.
I'll just take the one file and I'll just do
do what I do.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, yeah, because mastering can't fix a bad mix, it's
just enhancing it.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
No, Yeah, it's it's a tough thing because.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
I'm obviously not a part of songs from the very
very beginning, so you kind of have no idea.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
You don't know what people.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Recorded on, you don't know what the ring is going
to because all of these aspects ultimately come down to
how the affect how a master is going to sound.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Like a lot of people would be like, oh, it's
not sounding loud compared to other ones.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
And in one aspect you can just raise the volume,
but in another aspect, like arrangement has a lot to
do with loudness, production has a lot to do with it,
Mixing has a lot to do with it. So there's
a lot every little step has an impact on the
final product, which is sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I could go back and you know, maybe.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Like help with something in the in the early stages
to make it.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Sound as good as it can.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
But my yea, my main goal is just no matter
what I get, how it sounds, trying to make it
sound as good as it possibly can. Right.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And I always think that mixing and mastering are two
different kind.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Of beasts on their own.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And yeah, there's many mix engineers that don't do mastering,
and I think it's because there are different types of
skill sets. So in your mind, what do you think
makes a good mastering engineer?
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I think that practice definitely makes perfect I find myself
learning things every day and with every master that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I do, I think that a huge part in my success.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So to say would be that I took a lot
of ear training courses in college. My professor was Jim Anderson,
and he's amazing guy, like an amazing engineer. He and his
wife do incredible work, and he would this was like
the infamous course.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Everybody was like, oh no, like the ear training class.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
So it was he would play things from It was
Dave Moulton's Golden Ears. I took two rounds of this class,
and pretty much it would play a song or snippet
of a song, playing the same snippet but like remove
like five hundred hurts from it and be like what changed, and.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You'd like a be it and you'd have to be
able to kind.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Of clock that, oh, like that's something in the low
or something in the high change. So that was like
I think that helped me a lot because I'm able
to just immediately kind of hear frequencies when I'm I
always listen through to a mix first just to kind
of see what sticks out to me, and I'm like, okay,
(09:28):
might need to tweak here, tweak their, but I'm able to.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Fine, Like I have a fine point of targeting what
like what exactly I'm hearing.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Because of that course, and.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I think this is this isn't exactly to make a
great mastering engineer. But I think just like being a
good person like makes people want to work with you more.
That goes for any thing, whether it's mixing production, but
just you know, people.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Want to work with people they like.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
So just you know, being being yourself, I find putting
out good you get good back. So that's something that
I look for that in collaborators too. Like with I
think a lot of it comes down to your relationships
and if someone I feel like some people might just
be more inclined to maybe throw you an opportunity or
(10:22):
want to work with you again because you're nice, like
not obviously if it works bad, they're not going to
want to work with you again.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
But if it's a good experience, and that's I think
it's a good tool to have. It's just being like
a just don't be a bad person.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, I think that's so important for any job in
the industry.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Just about yeah, literally exactly that.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And it's so important, like you said, to be able
to detect things in the mix, and your training is
definitely important for an engineer. So what do you use
in current days for mastering as far as gear And
I'd really like to know what are your thoughts on
some of these new AI plugins that are trying to
(11:09):
take the job of a mastering engineer, such as ozone
and Lander, because it seems to me that a lot
of these plug ins people are using for free just
raise the level of the mix and don't really do
any specific EQ tweaks to them.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Okay, so first I'll start with what I use. I
use Sequoia.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
That's my dove of choice and it's kind of specifically
for mastering.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I really like it.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
She is a pretty penny, but I love her like
I really you can really get in and fine tune.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Parts of the song. They just have a lot of
I was about to say.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Weird editing tools, but like niche editing tools that kind
of are really helpful.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
For a mastering engineer. I have.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
PMC six' one. MONITORS i use the links high low.
HILO i need to find out how to pronounce, that
because every TIME i say, IT i, DON'T i just say.
BOTH i have A GRACE m nine oh, five which
those are both kind of.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
LIKE dda TO d converters and like INTERFACES i.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
HAVE i have a travel rig WHERE i Have i've
probably just messed up all the names of what those,
were but for my travel. RIG i have A mojo,
too which is From Cord, electronics and My Holy, GRAIL
i love her. Dearly My Baar DYNAMIC dt nineteen ninety
pros or my, headphones AND i started mastering in headphones
(12:45):
because it was DURING covid pretty much is WHEN i really,
started and they're they're very flat in my, opinion so
they give you a really good starting point AND i
trust them more than right now anything. Else and Then
i'll just use like the air pods Or AirPod, MAXES
i guess the big ones, too to do a little
(13:06):
test on the headphones because you need to BE i
feel like mastering studios are known for being the perfect
perfect environment for listening to, music but ninety nine percent
of people are never going to be listening to music like,
that SO i think it's really important to check it.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
In the mediums that people are going to be.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Listening but the, AirPods The AirPod, maxes and maybe just
coming out of the computer, speakers just to just make
sure it sounds good, everywhere BECAUSE i feel like sometimes
it's easy when it sounds good and these, expensive expensive,
headphones expensive.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Speakers but, yeah but then you can check it on
your phone and maybe it's peaking in certain.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Places, exactly it might sound a little.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Weird and that's also THE rx just came out with,
this oh what's called the Streaming, preview which helps with
you can listen to it the song and it'll give
you what it's going to sound like On.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Spotify so that's a, cool cool little.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Feature, yeah so that's kind of that's all my gear and.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
For THE ai. THINGS i you, know.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
It's funny a lot of people have different opinions about.
It like there's some people That i've been telling, Me,
gabby you need a backup. Plan you're gonna need to
get a new job soon because your job's gonna be,
chopped AND i.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Was, Like, okay, awesome thank you so. Much love.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
THAT i, PERSONALLY i think that it depends on a
lot of. SITUATIONS i think that THESE ai or mastering
plugins can be really helpful to some people who maybe
don't have the budget for to have somebody like a
(14:57):
specific mastery engineer to do, it because isn't always it
can be, expensive so when you're working with a smaller,
budget that's definitely an option something THAT I SINCE i
run my own, Business i'm able to be flexible with
(15:17):
my prices pretty. Much and not That i'm like COMBATING
ai with, this BUT i feel like THAT i try
to help smaller artists or maybe the college students or
whatever and be able to work with their budgets so
they're still able to have a real person work on
it rather than needing to USE. Ai SO i try
(15:39):
to be helpful in that. Sense because this is an
anecdote from school THAT i thought WAS i feel like
it sums up THE ai, business especially in mastering pretty
well for right.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
NOW i can't say how good it's going to get
in the next couple of.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Years but he sent one of my professors sent a
song To, lander and you, KNOW i think he was
saying that they claim that we'll make it like, perfect
it'll be the perfect.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Master so we got the master.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Back he was, Like, okay So i'm going to resubmit
this master to, them and if they claim to make
the perfect, master they should just send it back and be, like, no,
notes it's.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Perfect would you believe? It they. Didn't they took.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
The file that was apparently the perfect master and then
they just put whatever chain back on. It AND i
think that's kind of interesting because in aspects like, that
when you're claiming to have the perfect master or really good,
master it should be able to technically detect if it's
already been, mastered especially by the same.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Platform SO i thought that was.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Really, interesting AND i DON'T i can't say what the
future IS i think that people will always there's certain
people that are gonna try to having a human human
ears on it and also HAVING i think the human
interaction mastering, too because you're able to at least, ME
i don't have a manager or anything, like it's literally just,
(17:12):
Me So i'm emailing clients back and forth and they're
able to give me notes and we can like either
hop on a phone call or just. Correspond and IT'S
i know that people like the feel of being able
to talk and have a more collaborative ENVIRONMENT i guess
than it would be WITH, ai.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right and, yeah it might be an affordable option for
people to use THOSE ai, tools but, yeah it's always
seems to me that it's just raising the level and
not putting like a human touch or tweaks on. It
SO i think it is important to have that human. Aspect,
YEAH i.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Think it's hard because not EVERY i don't know how
it treats different, songs but not if.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
It just slaps like a limiter on.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
It not every song tolls for. That you, know every
song is, different and that's WHAT i. Think it's something
that they are not able to like deal with or
capture at the, moment, WELL i.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Don't, know then it can become like over compressed and,
yeah make it sound. Worse AND i think another THING
i like with the human aspect of mastering, engineers it's
in a lot of their practices to do the metadata
tagging on the files before they send it back to
(18:34):
the artists or. Songwriter AND i think that's really important
because you, know if you're using THESE ai, tools they're
not going to code the metadata for, You so just
having that little final touch that the engineer can add
for you so you have everything there and you know
when you send your songs to.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Radio they have all the metadata and everyone's.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Happy that's something THAT i would definitely try to bring more.
Light Two also because a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Don't have, metadata AND i don't know if it's that
they don't know that they should or.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
If they're just like maybe not they don't feel it's.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Necessary but, yeah metadata is important and it's good to,
have and that's, yeah a master engineer can definitely help
with that.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Too, Yeah, yeah definitely important to list all of your, writers,
publishers all that information in the songs in the. Files
and another THING i want to talk to about talk
about is.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Vinyl so.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Can you explain to everyone how mastering for vinyl is
different from mastering a song or album for.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Streaming, yeah, SO i feel like there's a couple of
different answers to this That i've learned over the past
couple of.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
YEARS i think that a big part of.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
It it depends whether you're using like you're using and
collaborating with a cutting, engineer someone who is like a
master engineer but cuts the, vinyl versus JUST i guess
a website that you just submit the form.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
To and THEN.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I think the difference is HAVING i guess the specific cutting,
engineer BECAUSE i find THAT i went to a panel AT,
as which is The Audio Engineering society event they have
every year In New, york AND i was listening to
this panel on vinyl, mastering AND i forget who was on.
(20:35):
IT i Know Piper pain was on, IT i forget
who the other two women were BECAUSE i was, LIKE
i feel Like i'm doing this. WRONG i don't think
That i'm sending the correct FILES i need to, Send
and they were basically, like just send the masters as
they are and we'll tweak it on our, end kind
of like they were, like don't really change anything because
(20:57):
we're gonna like we can tweak as we, Need so.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
In that, sense it's not super.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Different in another, Sense i'm ACTUALLY i just got an
email about this yesterday with someone saying that they needed
specific masters for, vinyl AND i GUESS i don't like.
TRANSPARENTLY i don't know what goes on in the cutting,
environment SO i don't know why one requires one thing
(21:26):
and one the. OTHER i guess maybe it's just the
business model or how the plant.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Runs but When i'm.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Doing specific vinyl, masters it does depend on the, GENRE
i would.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Say but normally you want to give the song more.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Headroom AND i believe you want to take out some
of the, lows and you just want it in general
to be somewhat quieter than what the streaming master might
be because there's so many there's so many annex to the
vinyl and, cutting AND i don't want to speak too
much on it BECAUSE i don't know a lot about
(22:06):
it AND i don't want to give out the wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Information but you definitely need to sort.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
OF i don't want to SAY i would tame THE
i guess the streaming masters a little bit to make
it a better fit.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
For a, vinyl if that makes.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Sense, Yeah and would it be the case maybe if
someone wants to also make a vinyl edition of their,
album would maybe you send those masters to someone who
just does vinyl and they'll stick it in their software
fix THE.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Eq.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Yeah NORMALLY i don't, Really i'm NOT i don't talk
to whoever is doing the vinyl. Normally normally it'll BE
i just send the clients my final files and then
they sort of take it to wherever they're going to
be getting the vinyls. Made So i'm not even really
included in, that WHICH i. Think i'm pretty sure THAT'S
(23:00):
i think that. STANDARD i don't, know but, Yeah i'm
not super super involved in.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
That.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, YEAH i got to see someone.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Doing it at nineteen seventy five studio In, nashville AND
i remember him saying the same, thing just taking out
a lot of the, lows more headrooms so that way
the needle isn't jumping the needle.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
YET i don't want the needle to. Jump.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah it's really cool, Though like it's a really really
cool process AND i would like to learn more of,
it AND i.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Think it would be.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Beneficial probably to me and my clients IF i just
know more about, it but it is somewhat a, separate
a separate, thing like there are very specific mastering engineers
who specialize in.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Vinyl, YEAH i would not consider. Myself, YEAH i, mean
OBVIOUSLY i don't have like a cutting area or like
the you.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Know, Yeah, yeah it's definitely a different process for a different.
Format so, also currently it's becoming more prominent to see
more female producers and mixing engineers out, there but still
a little bit rare in my, opinion to find female mastering.
Engineers so why do you think that the audio engineering
(24:21):
sector of the music industry is still pretty male.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Dominated, yeah that's a tough one as to WHY i think.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
That, HONESTLY i don't know. WHY i think it could.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
BE i think it can be, intimidating, yeah even WHEN
i was first learning about it and seeing, it and
can be a bit of a boys club SOMETIMES i
feel like that could kind of BE i don't, know
like a little maybe off. PUTTING i feel, like, honestly
(24:59):
just a lot of people don't even know what mastering
is or that it. Exists like even people in the
music industry don't always.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Have a grasp right on what it.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Is you, Know LIKE i REMEMBER i was giving a
final presentation in, college so my capstone about, mastering and
people who have been in the industry for years were, like,
oh this is a good this gives us like.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
A better understanding of what it actually.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Is SO i think just a lack OF i don't
want to say, resources because there are a lot a
lot of resources out there for, it but.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Maybe like a lack of the spotlight.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
On, it so to, SAY i feel like it's more
common to just hear about, mixing, production. Songwriting so maybe
people just kind of like me WHEN i started, out
they just didn't even know that it.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Existed and it's ALSO i don't.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Know in, school you, know there was one mastering, Course
it's not like there was A i didn't grant. IT
i didn't go to a college where it was all audio,
based so other.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Schools might have more of a focus on. It but
if there's, not.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
If you go to a school in music, school you
might not even be learning about what.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
MASTERING i just feel like it's kind of like an
under LIKE i would.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Say wizard Of oz behind the, curtain kind of like,
weird weird. Things SO i don't, KNOW i don't know so.
MUCH i GUESS i don't. KNOW i don't want to sound.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Dumb by being, LIKE i don't know why women.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
WOULDN'T i don't know that women, wouldn't you, know want
to go into, it or that there also are a
decent amount of women mastering.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Engineers but because mastering isn't.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
In the spotlight so, much people don't know about, it
and then people also would probably know more about the you,
know if you look at lists of like the best mastering,
engineers it'll be most of them will just be like,
male which whether that's true or, NOT i don't, know but,
(27:02):
yeah there's definitely JUST i think needs to be more
of a like education around it and just AND i
think an emphasis on it could help BECAUSE i think
people like, you young women, WHATEVER i think they would
find it interesting if maybe you, like if they knew
what it.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
WAS i don't, know, Though, yeah, YEAH i.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
AGREE i think it's more of a niche position.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
An, audio and there's so many.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Resources out there about mixing and, production but not as
much with, mastering or maybe it's just not in the
spotlight as. Much but to go back to what you
said about being a little bit more, INTIMIDATED i kind
of had the same experience WHEN i went To belmont
BECAUSE i was studying music business but my minor was,
(27:54):
production SO i had to take some audio engineering class
and every time it would be like me and they're
female and the rest were. Guys so, yeah sometimes that felt,
like you, know.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Kind of a boys.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Club you didn't get to be as hands on on
the console or you, know the spotlight on the class
was more on mixing rather than.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Mastering SO.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I think it's less intimidating for women now because there's
so many resources and groups and social media out there
that shines light to these jobs for, women and you,
know sometimes there's more resources with, mixing SO i think
it's always really cool WHEN i meet a female mastering
(28:38):
engineer out.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
There, yeah and it's there are definitely Like i'll give
a shout out to mix with the. Masters they do
master classes with a lot of mastering.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Engineers there's a.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Lot of like YouTube videos now and stuff about. It
BUT i feel like also seeing like as a girl
and then seeing you know how people's like seeing someone
that looks like you doing the thing and that you, realize,
oh like this is, cool LIKE i.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Want to do, This like that's something that is going
to be helpful, with you, know mixed with The. Masters
they're doing a highlight With.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
HEPOCHODREY i, Think i'm so, sorry that's not how you
pronounce your. Name but she's an amazing mastering, engineer and
so they are taking time to highlight some you, know
women mastering engineers as. Well and, YEAH i just really
think that there there would and could be more if
it was more maybe spoken about or. Taught but it's
(29:43):
also like, weird AND i get that people are kind
of like it's a little Too it can be, tedious
SO i understand that it's maybe not everybody's you, know
a cup of tea, either but so can.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Mixing mixing is very.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Tedious oh, yeah extremely.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Tedious so one of the last QUESTIONS i want to ask,
you what are some of your favorite projects you have worked?
Speaker 3 (30:06):
On, ooh, okay So.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Meet Me Next christmas By pentatonics was a very exciting.
One it was in the Original netflix movie Called Meet
Me Next, christmas AND i had been a fan Of
pentatonics for a really long, time so that was a
very exciting one to work.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
On and THEN i worked With Scott, hoying who's.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
One of the guys In pentatonics on one of his
original songs Called Rose without The. Thorn and that's a
really really special one to me because it got nominated
for A grammy this past, year and that was like so.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Exciting it was.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Just he so we finished, it AND i didn't even
know that it was going to be.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
He was going to submit it for consideration or. Anything you.
Know it was.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Only When grammy season kind of rolled around AND i
saw a post about it AND i was, like, oh,
Cool LIKE i didn't know it was going to be
up for.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Consideration fun and then it got nominated and it was
just a Very.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
It's it's interesting because you, KNOW i started out being
a singer, songwriter and in my, brain A grammy's always
kind of been, like, wow that would be, incredible, amazing
and now it's it's kind of cool looking that even
though my career has, shifted it's like it still might
be leading potentially to that result one. Day so that
(31:39):
was that just that really meant a lot to. Me
and to be working with someone who he's so, kind
Like scott is so. Nice him and his Husband, mark
they have worked with them on a couple of projects
and they managed this girl group Called Citizen, queen and.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Just every interaction with, them.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
They the people who are, like they're so, inclusive they
are like your biggest, fans like they are just very
grateful to, them just very very grateful to. Them and
that just became a very special project for. Me and
RECENTLY i just worked on a song from The New
(32:19):
smurfs movie that's coming Out july. Sixteen, yeah and it
was it's Called Higher love and it was By Desi
trill and it was Featuring CARDI, B Dj, Khaled, Natania
oh my, Gosh, natanna And.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Subby oh my. Gosh i'm so. SORRY i literally should
have looked up forcations of things before. This i'm so,
sorry but that.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
To have something in a, SOUNDTRACK i didn't even know
it was going to be in a soundtrack, actually BUT i.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Knew that it was going to BE Dj khalen and
Then CARDI, b AND i was, like, wow like this is, well,
YEAH i had on a second and then.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
When the song came, out they were, like, oh it's
for The New smurfs movie AND i was, like you
didn't even.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Know, NO i literally had no, idea AND i was,
like maybe it's.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
GOOD i didn't know BECAUSE i would have been more
nervous about, it but.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah more. Pressure.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
YEAH i mean it's interesting Because i've read a lot
about the you, know mastering for you don't actually master for.
MOVIES i didn't realize. This it's they have a like
a mix engineer that does the movie, stuff but Then
i'm just mastering what you're gonna hear on like the
soundtrack On.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Spotify but just just a little distinction there BECAUSE i
THOUGHT i was, like, oh IF i master this and.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
It's gonna be WHAT i hear in the, movie and it's, like, no,
girl that's not that's not.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
It but, well we'll have to keep an ear out
for when the movie comes.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Out oh, yeah, YEAH i gotta keep an ear. Out
but those are just some of the the most recent
ONE i.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
WORK i just it's hard BECAUSE i work on a
lot of really really good music that's really special and
important to. Me like at The spotify end Of Year,
WRAPPED i think half of my hundred were artists That
i've worked. On SO i really love a lot of
the music THAT i work, on and so a lot
of these projects are.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Just special to.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Me every project in some sense feels very special to
me BECAUSE i feel lucky that people trust me with
their art BECAUSE.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I know how.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
LIKE i know how much you care about a, project
how much work goes into, it and for people to
want to work with, me to like my stuff and
to be a part of, it JUST i feel very.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
LUCKY i just feel Very it's.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Got to be so fulfilling to work on music that
you're so passionate about as, well and she definitely. Is
maybe it was a hard stepping stone at, first you,
know trying to build up your portfolio to you, know
getting the, gigs getting the projects to work.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
On, yeah it's definitely it's taken a. While but.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Everything That i've worked on that's out so far has
been just like independent from my, Business SO i Really.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I'm working my.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
WAY i still have a lot more to, go BUT
i am very grateful to all of my clients who you,
know come back to me and like they're so. Nice
they refer me to or they refer other people to,
me and so that's.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
It's very.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Special AND i also feel lucky That i'm able to
communicate directly with, them LIKE i love being able to
have that one on one because a lot of times
not seeing a manager.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Isn't helpful because managers can be, very very. Helpful BUT i.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Think IT'S i think it's fun developing relationships with the
artists and now some of them have become like friends of,
mine and something THAT i feel maybe isn't as common in.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Mastering it tends to be very separate artists.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Engineers, yeah like, separate But i'm kind of trying to
like merge out a little, bit like, yeah, yes And
i'm very much a people person and SO i feel
Like i'm i don't, know.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Trying to Just i'm just trying to do, it do
it my way as. All but that's a good.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Thing so there's that gives you an edge because there's
a lot of mastering engineers that are not social or.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
People, yeah and, yeah Some i've met people and they're like,
wow like engineers tend to be more like. Introverted, yes,
yes but, YEAH i was given the gift of the.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Gab so where can people find you if they want
to work with you on their next?
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Project?
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Yeah SO i have a website That's Gabby grillamastering dot com.
Ipell my name Is SILLY A G A B I G. R.
E L L a On. Instagram i'm At Gabby. GRELLA
i have like in my, BIO i have a link
to my website and my, WEBSITE i have a section
with my intake form that is SOMETHING i use just
(37:18):
to keep everything. Organized you're just like fill in your, deadline,
budget all that good stuff and Then, i'll you, know
start emailing with you and we'll nail something. Down but
pretty very much every social media is At Gabby grella
and my Emails Gabbygrilla music at gmail dot.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Com you can email me. Everything you can send a
carrier pigeon to. Me any any means any means nice and.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
EASY i will link all of those links and information
in the liner notes of the.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Podcast thank. Yeav thank you so much for being on
the podcast.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Today thank, you it's been a. Pleasure
Hi everyone, This is your host Sarah Harrelson, and today
on the Mind Your Music Business podcast, we have with
us fellow Recording Academy member Gabby Grella, a mastering engineer
from New Jersey. At only the age of twenty six,
she has worked on over one thousand songs, including Kesha's
(00:27):
Gag Order live acoustic EP, meet Me Next Christmas by Pentatonics,
and Love the Way I Love You by Citizen Queen,
just to name a few. She graduated from NYU's Clive
Davis Institute of Recorded Music, has worked at Sterling Sound,
and is also a singer songwriter. And this is my
favorite line from your bio while I was reading it.
(00:49):
Being a mastering engineer in an extremely male dominated sector
of the music industry is not always easy, and she
hopes to make every future woman's engineering path easier and
more accessible.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I love that. Thank you for being on the podcast today, Gavi.
How are you good?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be
talking to you.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So, your education at NYU mentioned that it covered production, mixing,
and business. So what ultimately made you decide you wanted
to be a mastering engineer as opposed to a mixing
engineer or a producer, right.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
A big part of that was that I took a
tour of Sterling Sound. They were still in New York,
and Sterling Sound is a very prestigious mastering company, if
anybody doesn't know that. And it was through a summer
high school course at NYU. So I was a junior
in high school going into senior year. I didn't know
(01:51):
basically anything about the music industry. I didn't even know
that mastering or anything about.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
The audio world in general.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I don't know what I thought happened to a song
before it was on my Spotify, but I just didn't
even like I just didn't even think about it. And
we got to tour that studio and listen to a
couple of songs and just kind of learned about what mastering.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Was, and I really took a liking to it.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I started dabbling a bit on my own, and then
when I went to college, we kind of, as you said,
it was a very holistic curriculum, so I learned pretty
much everything there is to know in the music industry.
But then I found myself really liking the mixing classes
and the recording classes and more things on the engineering side,
(02:38):
and then I was able to take a mastering course,
and I just sort of felt like that was a
good spot for me. I would like I used to
beg my friends to let me master stuff for them,
almost to the point of I'll pay you just let
me practice when I was in college. So it felt
like a good combination of my enjoyment of engineering and
(03:03):
I sort of i started doing it. I feel like
I wasn't bad at it, so I was like, let's
give this, Let's give this a go. So that's how
I kind of narrowed in on it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, And for those who are listening who maybe don't
fully understand what mastering is or why it's important for
the final stage of production of a song, can you
just briefly explain what mastering does to a mix and
why it's so important in the final stage of production.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Absolutely, So mastering is, as you just mentioned, the last
stage of making a song, so we are the last
people to touch it before it goes onto streaming, radio,
whatever platform. And a big part of mastering is you
always hear of the loudness wars. If you don't know
what the loudness wars are, it's basically.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Songs just keep getting.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Louder and louder, because a big thing with loudness is
that perceived perceived loudness is that you hear something louder
and you think it's better, like it equates to better.
So our job is to make sure that your releases
as an artist are competitive with other releases that are
out right now. And there's a bunch of different guidelines
(04:15):
for that, which is really boring and nobody wants to
hear about it.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
But there are certain.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Levels or specs that we have to fill to, like,
you know, fulfill that quota and make sure that it
is on the same competitive level as other songs. And
we're also just like the last pair of ears listen
to something. So I find myself just doing final tweaks.
I take a very i don't want to say, a
(04:44):
backseat role, but I'm not going in there being like, okay,
I need to fix everything, like it's it's very much
that I understand that everyone from before me likes the mix,
is happy where the mix is, so I'm not trying
to go in there and change things.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I'm just trying to enhance. So maybe I'll do just
a little. I do very, very.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Small EQ moves like it is so minimal sometimes but
I hear the difference and it I think keeps it.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Really true to the mix.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
That kind of that was a long way of answering
the question, but it's yeah, final tweaks loudness. We do
a lot of different formatting, so for CDs, vinyl like well,
we handle all of that as well. And something that
I always kind of equate it to is baking. So
(05:34):
for mixing, you're literally you're at you're measuring up the
ingredients very specific. You're you're deciding how much cinnamon and
how much flour, how much X y Z goes in
the oven. Mastering is like cake comes out. I have cake,
like I can't go back and you know, add more
cinnamon to it. Like it's kind of what's there is there,
(05:55):
and so my job is to add maybe some icy,
maybe some sprinkle. It's like, you know, just little finishing
details at look and sound good to outside people and
make it, you know, stand out as opposed to may
be a cake that doesn't.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Have any icing on it. It's going to be more appealing,
you know.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, I love that analogy because I always think of
mastering as like the chef's kiss, so like the icing
on the cake that exactly.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, it's silly, but especially for stereo mastering, some people
do stem mastering, so it'll be I find that to
be basically just mixing.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Against that, I prefer.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
To do, like I tell, you know, people should they
should trust in the mix, you know, like you got it.
I'll just take the one file and I'll just do
do what I do.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, yeah, because mastering can't fix a bad mix, it's
just enhancing it.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
No, Yeah, it's it's a tough thing because.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
I'm obviously not a part of songs from the very
very beginning, so you kind of have no idea.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
You don't know what people.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Recorded on, you don't know what the ring is going
to because all of these aspects ultimately come down to
how the affect how a master is going to sound.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Like a lot of people would be like, oh, it's
not sounding loud compared to other ones.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
And in one aspect you can just raise the volume,
but in another aspect, like arrangement has a lot to
do with loudness, production has a lot to do with it,
Mixing has a lot to do with it. So there's
a lot every little step has an impact on the
final product, which is sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I could go back and you know, maybe.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Like help with something in the in the early stages
to make it.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Sound as good as it can.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
But my yea, my main goal is just no matter
what I get, how it sounds, trying to make it
sound as good as it possibly can. Right.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
And I always think that mixing and mastering are two
different kind.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Of beasts on their own.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And yeah, there's many mix engineers that don't do mastering,
and I think it's because there are different types of
skill sets. So in your mind, what do you think
makes a good mastering engineer?
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I think that practice definitely makes perfect I find myself
learning things every day and with every master that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I do, I think that a huge part in my success.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So to say would be that I took a lot
of ear training courses in college. My professor was Jim Anderson,
and he's amazing guy, like an amazing engineer. He and his
wife do incredible work, and he would this was like
the infamous course.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Everybody was like, oh no, like the ear training class.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
So it was he would play things from It was
Dave Moulton's Golden Ears. I took two rounds of this class,
and pretty much it would play a song or snippet
of a song, playing the same snippet but like remove
like five hundred hurts from it and be like what changed, and.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You'd like a be it and you'd have to be
able to kind.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
Of clock that, oh, like that's something in the low
or something in the high change. So that was like
I think that helped me a lot because I'm able
to just immediately kind of hear frequencies when I'm I
always listen through to a mix first just to kind
of see what sticks out to me, and I'm like, okay,
(09:28):
might need to tweak here, tweak their, but I'm able to.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Fine, Like I have a fine point of targeting what
like what exactly I'm hearing.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Because of that course, and.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
I think this is this isn't exactly to make a
great mastering engineer. But I think just like being a
good person like makes people want to work with you more.
That goes for any thing, whether it's mixing production, but
just you know, people.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Want to work with people they like.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
So just you know, being being yourself, I find putting
out good you get good back. So that's something that
I look for that in collaborators too. Like with I
think a lot of it comes down to your relationships
and if someone I feel like some people might just
be more inclined to maybe throw you an opportunity or
(10:22):
want to work with you again because you're nice, like
not obviously if it works bad, they're not going to
want to work with you again.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
But if it's a good experience, and that's I think
it's a good tool to have. It's just being like
a just don't be a bad person.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, I think that's so important for any job in
the industry.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Just about yeah, literally exactly that.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
And it's so important, like you said, to be able
to detect things in the mix, and your training is
definitely important for an engineer. So what do you use
in current days for mastering as far as gear And
I'd really like to know what are your thoughts on
some of these new AI plugins that are trying to
(11:09):
take the job of a mastering engineer, such as ozone
and Lander, because it seems to me that a lot
of these plug ins people are using for free just
raise the level of the mix and don't really do
any specific EQ tweaks to them.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Okay, so first I'll start with what I use. I
use Sequoia.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
That's my dove of choice and it's kind of specifically
for mastering.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I really like it.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
She is a pretty penny, but I love her like
I really you can really get in and fine tune.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Parts of the song. They just have a lot of
I was about to say.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Weird editing tools, but like niche editing tools that kind
of are really helpful.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
For a mastering engineer. I have.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
PMC six' one. MONITORS i use the links high low.
HILO i need to find out how to pronounce, that
because every TIME i say, IT i, DON'T i just say.
BOTH i have A GRACE m nine oh, five which
those are both kind of.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
LIKE dda TO d converters and like INTERFACES i.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
HAVE i have a travel rig WHERE i Have i've
probably just messed up all the names of what those,
were but for my travel. RIG i have A mojo,
too which is From Cord, electronics and My Holy, GRAIL
i love her. Dearly My Baar DYNAMIC dt nineteen ninety
pros or my, headphones AND i started mastering in headphones
(12:45):
because it was DURING covid pretty much is WHEN i really,
started and they're they're very flat in my, opinion so
they give you a really good starting point AND i
trust them more than right now anything. Else and Then
i'll just use like the air pods Or AirPod, MAXES
i guess the big ones, too to do a little
(13:06):
test on the headphones because you need to BE i
feel like mastering studios are known for being the perfect
perfect environment for listening to, music but ninety nine percent
of people are never going to be listening to music like,
that SO i think it's really important to check it.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
In the mediums that people are going to be.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Listening but the, AirPods The AirPod, maxes and maybe just
coming out of the computer, speakers just to just make
sure it sounds good, everywhere BECAUSE i feel like sometimes
it's easy when it sounds good and these, expensive expensive,
headphones expensive.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Speakers but, yeah but then you can check it on
your phone and maybe it's peaking in certain.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Places, exactly it might sound a little.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Weird and that's also THE rx just came out with,
this oh what's called the Streaming, preview which helps with
you can listen to it the song and it'll give
you what it's going to sound like On.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Spotify so that's a, cool cool little.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Feature, yeah so that's kind of that's all my gear and.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
For THE ai. THINGS i you, know.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
It's funny a lot of people have different opinions about.
It like there's some people That i've been telling, Me,
gabby you need a backup. Plan you're gonna need to
get a new job soon because your job's gonna be,
chopped AND i.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Was, Like, okay, awesome thank you so. Much love.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
THAT i, PERSONALLY i think that it depends on a
lot of. SITUATIONS i think that THESE ai or mastering
plugins can be really helpful to some people who maybe
don't have the budget for to have somebody like a
(14:57):
specific mastery engineer to do, it because isn't always it
can be, expensive so when you're working with a smaller,
budget that's definitely an option something THAT I SINCE i
run my own, Business i'm able to be flexible with
(15:17):
my prices pretty. Much and not That i'm like COMBATING
ai with, this BUT i feel like THAT i try
to help smaller artists or maybe the college students or
whatever and be able to work with their budgets so
they're still able to have a real person work on
it rather than needing to USE. Ai SO i try
(15:39):
to be helpful in that. Sense because this is an
anecdote from school THAT i thought WAS i feel like
it sums up THE ai, business especially in mastering pretty
well for right.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
NOW i can't say how good it's going to get
in the next couple of.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Years but he sent one of my professors sent a
song To, lander and you, KNOW i think he was
saying that they claim that we'll make it like, perfect
it'll be the perfect.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Master so we got the master.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Back he was, Like, okay So i'm going to resubmit
this master to, them and if they claim to make
the perfect, master they should just send it back and be, like, no,
notes it's.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Perfect would you believe? It they. Didn't they took.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
The file that was apparently the perfect master and then
they just put whatever chain back on. It AND i
think that's kind of interesting because in aspects like, that
when you're claiming to have the perfect master or really good,
master it should be able to technically detect if it's
already been, mastered especially by the same.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Platform SO i thought that was.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
Really, interesting AND i DON'T i can't say what the
future IS i think that people will always there's certain
people that are gonna try to having a human human
ears on it and also HAVING i think the human
interaction mastering, too because you're able to at least, ME
i don't have a manager or anything, like it's literally just,
(17:12):
Me So i'm emailing clients back and forth and they're
able to give me notes and we can like either
hop on a phone call or just. Correspond and IT'S
i know that people like the feel of being able
to talk and have a more collaborative ENVIRONMENT i guess
than it would be WITH, ai.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right and, yeah it might be an affordable option for
people to use THOSE ai, tools but, yeah it's always
seems to me that it's just raising the level and
not putting like a human touch or tweaks on. It
SO i think it is important to have that human. Aspect,
YEAH i.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Think it's hard because not EVERY i don't know how
it treats different, songs but not if.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
It just slaps like a limiter on.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
It not every song tolls for. That you, know every
song is, different and that's WHAT i. Think it's something
that they are not able to like deal with or
capture at the, moment, WELL i.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Don't, know then it can become like over compressed and,
yeah make it sound. Worse AND i think another THING
i like with the human aspect of mastering, engineers it's
in a lot of their practices to do the metadata
tagging on the files before they send it back to
(18:34):
the artists or. Songwriter AND i think that's really important
because you, know if you're using THESE ai, tools they're
not going to code the metadata for, You so just
having that little final touch that the engineer can add
for you so you have everything there and you know
when you send your songs to.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Radio they have all the metadata and everyone's.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Happy that's something THAT i would definitely try to bring more.
Light Two also because a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Don't have, metadata AND i don't know if it's that
they don't know that they should or.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
If they're just like maybe not they don't feel it's.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Necessary but, yeah metadata is important and it's good to,
have and that's, yeah a master engineer can definitely help
with that.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Too, Yeah, yeah definitely important to list all of your, writers,
publishers all that information in the songs in the. Files
and another THING i want to talk to about talk
about is.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Vinyl so.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Can you explain to everyone how mastering for vinyl is
different from mastering a song or album for.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Streaming, yeah, SO i feel like there's a couple of
different answers to this That i've learned over the past
couple of.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
YEARS i think that a big part of.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
It it depends whether you're using like you're using and
collaborating with a cutting, engineer someone who is like a
master engineer but cuts the, vinyl versus JUST i guess
a website that you just submit the form.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
To and THEN.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I think the difference is HAVING i guess the specific cutting,
engineer BECAUSE i find THAT i went to a panel AT,
as which is The Audio Engineering society event they have
every year In New, york AND i was listening to
this panel on vinyl, mastering AND i forget who was on.
(20:35):
IT i Know Piper pain was on, IT i forget
who the other two women were BECAUSE i was, LIKE
i feel Like i'm doing this. WRONG i don't think
That i'm sending the correct FILES i need to, Send
and they were basically, like just send the masters as
they are and we'll tweak it on our, end kind
of like they were, like don't really change anything because
(20:57):
we're gonna like we can tweak as we, Need so.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
In that, sense it's not super.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Different in another, Sense i'm ACTUALLY i just got an
email about this yesterday with someone saying that they needed
specific masters for, vinyl AND i GUESS i don't like.
TRANSPARENTLY i don't know what goes on in the cutting,
environment SO i don't know why one requires one thing
(21:26):
and one the. OTHER i guess maybe it's just the
business model or how the plant.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Runs but When i'm.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
Doing specific vinyl, masters it does depend on the, GENRE
i would.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Say but normally you want to give the song more.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Headroom AND i believe you want to take out some
of the, lows and you just want it in general
to be somewhat quieter than what the streaming master might
be because there's so many there's so many annex to the
vinyl and, cutting AND i don't want to speak too
much on it BECAUSE i don't know a lot about
(22:06):
it AND i don't want to give out the wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Information but you definitely need to sort.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
OF i don't want to SAY i would tame THE
i guess the streaming masters a little bit to make
it a better fit.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
For a, vinyl if that makes.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Sense, Yeah and would it be the case maybe if
someone wants to also make a vinyl edition of their,
album would maybe you send those masters to someone who
just does vinyl and they'll stick it in their software
fix THE.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Eq.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Yeah NORMALLY i don't, Really i'm NOT i don't talk
to whoever is doing the vinyl. Normally normally it'll BE
i just send the clients my final files and then
they sort of take it to wherever they're going to
be getting the vinyls. Made So i'm not even really
included in, that WHICH i. Think i'm pretty sure THAT'S
(23:00):
i think that. STANDARD i don't, know but, Yeah i'm
not super super involved in.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
That.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, YEAH i got to see someone.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Doing it at nineteen seventy five studio In, nashville AND
i remember him saying the same, thing just taking out
a lot of the, lows more headrooms so that way
the needle isn't jumping the needle.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
YET i don't want the needle to. Jump.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah it's really cool, Though like it's a really really
cool process AND i would like to learn more of,
it AND i.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Think it would be.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Beneficial probably to me and my clients IF i just
know more about, it but it is somewhat a, separate
a separate, thing like there are very specific mastering engineers
who specialize in.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Vinyl, YEAH i would not consider. Myself, YEAH i, mean
OBVIOUSLY i don't have like a cutting area or like
the you.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Know, Yeah, yeah it's definitely a different process for a different.
Format so, also currently it's becoming more prominent to see
more female producers and mixing engineers out, there but still
a little bit rare in my, opinion to find female mastering.
Engineers so why do you think that the audio engineering
(24:21):
sector of the music industry is still pretty male.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Dominated, yeah that's a tough one as to WHY i think.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
That, HONESTLY i don't know. WHY i think it could.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
BE i think it can be, intimidating, yeah even WHEN
i was first learning about it and seeing, it and
can be a bit of a boys club SOMETIMES i
feel like that could kind of BE i don't, know
like a little maybe off. PUTTING i feel, like, honestly
(24:59):
just a lot of people don't even know what mastering
is or that it. Exists like even people in the
music industry don't always.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Have a grasp right on what it.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Is you, Know LIKE i REMEMBER i was giving a
final presentation in, college so my capstone about, mastering and
people who have been in the industry for years were, like,
oh this is a good this gives us like.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
A better understanding of what it actually.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Is SO i think just a lack OF i don't
want to say, resources because there are a lot a
lot of resources out there for, it but.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Maybe like a lack of the spotlight.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
On, it so to, SAY i feel like it's more
common to just hear about, mixing, production. Songwriting so maybe
people just kind of like me WHEN i started, out
they just didn't even know that it.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Existed and it's ALSO i don't.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Know in, school you, know there was one mastering, Course
it's not like there was A i didn't grant. IT
i didn't go to a college where it was all audio,
based so other.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Schools might have more of a focus on. It but
if there's, not.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
If you go to a school in music, school you
might not even be learning about what.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
MASTERING i just feel like it's kind of like an
under LIKE i would.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Say wizard Of oz behind the, curtain kind of like,
weird weird. Things SO i don't, KNOW i don't know so.
MUCH i GUESS i don't. KNOW i don't want to sound.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Dumb by being, LIKE i don't know why women.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
WOULDN'T i don't know that women, wouldn't you, know want
to go into, it or that there also are a
decent amount of women mastering.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Engineers but because mastering isn't.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
In the spotlight so, much people don't know about, it
and then people also would probably know more about the you,
know if you look at lists of like the best mastering,
engineers it'll be most of them will just be like,
male which whether that's true or, NOT i don't, know but,
(27:02):
yeah there's definitely JUST i think needs to be more
of a like education around it and just AND i
think an emphasis on it could help BECAUSE i think
people like, you young women, WHATEVER i think they would
find it interesting if maybe you, like if they knew
what it.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
WAS i don't, know, Though, yeah, YEAH i.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
AGREE i think it's more of a niche position.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
An, audio and there's so many.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Resources out there about mixing and, production but not as
much with, mastering or maybe it's just not in the
spotlight as. Much but to go back to what you
said about being a little bit more, INTIMIDATED i kind
of had the same experience WHEN i went To belmont
BECAUSE i was studying music business but my minor was,
(27:54):
production SO i had to take some audio engineering class
and every time it would be like me and they're
female and the rest were. Guys so, yeah sometimes that felt,
like you, know.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Kind of a boys.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Club you didn't get to be as hands on on
the console or you, know the spotlight on the class
was more on mixing rather than.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Mastering SO.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I think it's less intimidating for women now because there's
so many resources and groups and social media out there
that shines light to these jobs for, women and you,
know sometimes there's more resources with, mixing SO i think
it's always really cool WHEN i meet a female mastering
(28:38):
engineer out.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
There, yeah and it's there are definitely Like i'll give
a shout out to mix with the. Masters they do
master classes with a lot of mastering.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Engineers there's a.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Lot of like YouTube videos now and stuff about. It
BUT i feel like also seeing like as a girl
and then seeing you know how people's like seeing someone
that looks like you doing the thing and that you, realize,
oh like this is, cool LIKE i.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Want to do, This like that's something that is going
to be helpful, with you, know mixed with The. Masters
they're doing a highlight With.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
HEPOCHODREY i, Think i'm so, sorry that's not how you
pronounce your. Name but she's an amazing mastering, engineer and
so they are taking time to highlight some you, know
women mastering engineers as. Well and, YEAH i just really
think that there there would and could be more if
it was more maybe spoken about or. Taught but it's
(29:43):
also like, weird AND i get that people are kind
of like it's a little Too it can be, tedious
SO i understand that it's maybe not everybody's you, know
a cup of tea, either but so can.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Mixing mixing is very.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Tedious oh, yeah extremely.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Tedious so one of the last QUESTIONS i want to ask,
you what are some of your favorite projects you have worked?
Speaker 3 (30:06):
On, ooh, okay So.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Meet Me Next christmas By pentatonics was a very exciting.
One it was in the Original netflix movie Called Meet
Me Next, christmas AND i had been a fan Of
pentatonics for a really long, time so that was a
very exciting one to work.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
On and THEN i worked With Scott, hoying who's.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
One of the guys In pentatonics on one of his
original songs Called Rose without The. Thorn and that's a
really really special one to me because it got nominated
for A grammy this past, year and that was like so.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Exciting it was.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Just he so we finished, it AND i didn't even
know that it was going to be.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
He was going to submit it for consideration or. Anything you.
Know it was.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Only When grammy season kind of rolled around AND i
saw a post about it AND i was, like, oh,
Cool LIKE i didn't know it was going to be
up for.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Consideration fun and then it got nominated and it was
just a Very.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
It's it's interesting because you, KNOW i started out being
a singer, songwriter and in my, brain A grammy's always
kind of been, like, wow that would be, incredible, amazing
and now it's it's kind of cool looking that even
though my career has, shifted it's like it still might
be leading potentially to that result one. Day so that
(31:39):
was that just that really meant a lot to. Me
and to be working with someone who he's so, kind
Like scott is so. Nice him and his Husband, mark
they have worked with them on a couple of projects
and they managed this girl group Called Citizen, queen and.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Just every interaction with, them.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
They the people who are, like they're so, inclusive they
are like your biggest, fans like they are just very
grateful to, them just very very grateful to. Them and
that just became a very special project for. Me and
RECENTLY i just worked on a song from The New
(32:19):
smurfs movie that's coming Out july. Sixteen, yeah and it
was it's Called Higher love and it was By Desi
trill and it was Featuring CARDI, B Dj, Khaled, Natania
oh my, Gosh, natanna And.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Subby oh my. Gosh i'm so. SORRY i literally should
have looked up forcations of things before. This i'm so,
sorry but that.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
To have something in a, SOUNDTRACK i didn't even know
it was going to be in a soundtrack, actually BUT i.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Knew that it was going to BE Dj khalen and
Then CARDI, b AND i was, like, wow like this is, well,
YEAH i had on a second and then.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
When the song came, out they were, like, oh it's
for The New smurfs movie AND i was, like you
didn't even.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Know, NO i literally had no, idea AND i was,
like maybe it's.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
GOOD i didn't know BECAUSE i would have been more
nervous about, it but.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah more. Pressure.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
YEAH i mean it's interesting Because i've read a lot
about the you, know mastering for you don't actually master for.
MOVIES i didn't realize. This it's they have a like
a mix engineer that does the movie, stuff but Then
i'm just mastering what you're gonna hear on like the
soundtrack On.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Spotify but just just a little distinction there BECAUSE i
THOUGHT i was, like, oh IF i master this and.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
It's gonna be WHAT i hear in the, movie and it's, like, no,
girl that's not that's not.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
It but, well we'll have to keep an ear out
for when the movie comes.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Out oh, yeah, YEAH i gotta keep an ear. Out
but those are just some of the the most recent
ONE i.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
WORK i just it's hard BECAUSE i work on a
lot of really really good music that's really special and
important to. Me like at The spotify end Of Year,
WRAPPED i think half of my hundred were artists That
i've worked. On SO i really love a lot of
the music THAT i work, on and so a lot
of these projects are.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Just special to.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Me every project in some sense feels very special to
me BECAUSE i feel lucky that people trust me with
their art BECAUSE.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I know how.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
LIKE i know how much you care about a, project
how much work goes into, it and for people to
want to work with, me to like my stuff and
to be a part of, it JUST i feel very.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
LUCKY i just feel Very it's.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Got to be so fulfilling to work on music that
you're so passionate about as, well and she definitely. Is
maybe it was a hard stepping stone at, first you,
know trying to build up your portfolio to you, know
getting the, gigs getting the projects to work.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
On, yeah it's definitely it's taken a. While but.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Everything That i've worked on that's out so far has
been just like independent from my, Business SO i Really.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
I'm working my.
Speaker 4 (35:19):
WAY i still have a lot more to, go BUT
i am very grateful to all of my clients who you,
know come back to me and like they're so. Nice
they refer me to or they refer other people to,
me and so that's.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
It's very.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Special AND i also feel lucky That i'm able to
communicate directly with, them LIKE i love being able to
have that one on one because a lot of times
not seeing a manager.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Isn't helpful because managers can be, very very. Helpful BUT i.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Think IT'S i think it's fun developing relationships with the
artists and now some of them have become like friends of,
mine and something THAT i feel maybe isn't as common in.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Mastering it tends to be very separate artists.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
Engineers, yeah like, separate But i'm kind of trying to
like merge out a little, bit like, yeah, yes And
i'm very much a people person and SO i feel
Like i'm i don't, know.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Trying to Just i'm just trying to do, it do
it my way as. All but that's a good.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Thing so there's that gives you an edge because there's
a lot of mastering engineers that are not social or.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
People, yeah and, yeah Some i've met people and they're like,
wow like engineers tend to be more like. Introverted, yes,
yes but, YEAH i was given the gift of the.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Gab so where can people find you if they want
to work with you on their next?
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Project?
Speaker 4 (36:54):
Yeah SO i have a website That's Gabby grillamastering dot com.
Ipell my name Is SILLY A G A B I G. R.
E L L a On. Instagram i'm At Gabby. GRELLA
i have like in my, BIO i have a link
to my website and my, WEBSITE i have a section
with my intake form that is SOMETHING i use just
(37:18):
to keep everything. Organized you're just like fill in your, deadline,
budget all that good stuff and Then, i'll you, know
start emailing with you and we'll nail something. Down but
pretty very much every social media is At Gabby grella
and my Emails Gabbygrilla music at gmail dot.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Com you can email me. Everything you can send a
carrier pigeon to. Me any any means any means nice and.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
EASY i will link all of those links and information
in the liner notes of the.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Podcast thank. Yeav thank you so much for being on
the podcast.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Today thank, you it's been a. Pleasure
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