May 23, 2025 • 18 mins
"Maybe you're just too sensitive." Sound familiar?
In this jaw-dropping episode, we expose gaslighting—one of the most insidious forms of emotional manipulation used to gain control by making you question your own reality. Whether it’s happening in your relationship, your family, or even at work, this episode will help you recognize the red flags and take back your power.
We break down:
🔥 The psychology of gaslighting—why abusers do it and how it works
🚩 Real-world gaslighting phrases and behaviors to look out for
🧠 How gaslighting leads to anxiety, confusion, and self-doubt
💼 The rise of workplace gaslighting—how bosses gaslight employees and destroy morale
✅ Practical strategies for confronting gaslighting and setting boundaries
If you’ve ever felt like you’re going crazy—even though deep down you know something’s off—this episode is your validation.
🎧 Listen now to reclaim your voice, your truth, and your clarity.
➤ Found this helpful? Subscribe, share this with someone who needs to hear it, and leave a review—it helps others find the support they deserve too.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/mindbenders-brain-teasers-philo-psych--6019641/support.
In this jaw-dropping episode, we expose gaslighting—one of the most insidious forms of emotional manipulation used to gain control by making you question your own reality. Whether it’s happening in your relationship, your family, or even at work, this episode will help you recognize the red flags and take back your power.
We break down:
🔥 The psychology of gaslighting—why abusers do it and how it works
🚩 Real-world gaslighting phrases and behaviors to look out for
🧠 How gaslighting leads to anxiety, confusion, and self-doubt
💼 The rise of workplace gaslighting—how bosses gaslight employees and destroy morale
✅ Practical strategies for confronting gaslighting and setting boundaries
If you’ve ever felt like you’re going crazy—even though deep down you know something’s off—this episode is your validation.
🎧 Listen now to reclaim your voice, your truth, and your clarity.
➤ Found this helpful? Subscribe, share this with someone who needs to hear it, and leave a review—it helps others find the support they deserve too.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/mindbenders-brain-teasers-philo-psych--6019641/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So have you ever walked away from a chat feeling
totally lost? Like you must be the one who's confused,
even when your get is screaming that you know what happens?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Oh? Absolutely, it's a really disorienting feeling like you've somehow
stepped out of sync with reality exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, and we're going to dig into why that might
be happening today. It comes down to this subtle but
honestly incredibly damaging kind of manipulation called gaslighting.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Right. It's a word we hear thrown around a lot now,
you know, but it's more than just buzz. It describes
a real pattern, a way someone can systematically make you
doubt your own reality.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, it's not just disagreeing, is it.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
It's deeper, much deeper, and it pops up everywhere close relationship, sure,
but also like at work, maybe even with your doctor
sometimes anywhere there's a power dynamic.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Really, we've really gone through a lot of material on this,
trying to understand how it's defined, how it actually looks
in different situations, and even some new research looking at
it in the workplace. And our goal really is to
give you a clearer picture what is gaslighting? How does
it sneak into conversations and hopefully help you feel more
solid in your own perceptions.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's crucial stuff. And the name itself, gaslighting actually has
a pretty fascinating origin. It comes from a play and
then a movie called Gaslight.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh right, the old black and white film, that's the one.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
The whole plot revolves around this husband who is deliberately
messing with his wife's environment to make her think she's
losing her mind.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
How does he do that?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, one of the main things is he keeps dimming
the gaslights in their house subtly, you know, okay, and
when she notices and says, hey, are the lights dimmer,
he completely denies it, tells her she's imagining things, she's mistaken.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And he does other things too, hiding objects, making noises,
all while isolating her so nobody else can confirm what
she's seeing and hearing. It's all designed to make her
doubt her own senses.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
That's chilling. It really shows how someone you trust can
just chip away at your reality bit by bit.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Exact actually constant denial, constant distortion, until you start thinking
maybe I am crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And that's the core of it, isn't it. Twisting reality.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
That's the definition, really, And it's funny how the term
just exploded recently. Merrion Webster actually named it word of
the Year not too long ago.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Really, why this spikee?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, they pointed to, you know, the whole landscape of misinformation,
fake news, conspiracy theories online. Gas Lighting became the word
people reached for to describe deliberately misleading others for some
kind of gain. The lookups one up something crazy like
seventeen hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Wow. But psychologically it's more specific than just lying right.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh, definitely. The American Psychological Association the APA defines it
as manipulating someone so they doubt their own perceptions, their experiences,
or even their understanding of things, and experts in the
field describe it as a tactic, a deliberate one often
used to distract or shift, blame, or just plane belittle
someone and make them feel small.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And damage that does.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It can be really pro found. I mean, think about it.
If you can't trust what you see, what you hear,
what you feel, that's fundamental, you start to lose trust
in your own internal compass.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, you'd constantly be second guessing yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Constantly leads to deep insecurity. You might even start to
wonder if there's something genuinely wrong with your mental health
just because someone else keeps insisting your reality isn't real.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
And like you said, it's not just in marriages.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Like the movie, No, not at all. It happens at work,
between a boss and employee, within families, parents and kids, siblings,
even say in a doctor's office, where there's that inherent
authority imbalance.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's about the manipulation within that power dynamic.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Precisely, and it helps to know that people might do
it for different reasons, not always the same motivation. You know,
like what well experts talk about a few types. You've
got the malicious gas lighter. This is someone maybe with
a narcissistic or sociopathic traits, who is intentionally manipulating for control.
It's a core tool for them.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Okay, that sounds pretty calculating.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It often is. Then you have maybe uh self protecting
gas lighters, people who lie or twist things mainly to
avoid getting into trouble.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So let's about dominating the other person, more about saving
their own.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Skin, kind of like maybe they messed up at work
and try to convince everyone the instructions were different, making
you doubt your memory. There's still gaslighting by denying your reality,
but the primary driver might be avoiding consequences. Some suggest
these folks might feel remorse if confronted.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Maybe interesting distinction still harmful.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Though, oh absolutely. And then there's a really tough one,
the kind of person who denies your reality even when
you have like cold hard proof, You.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Share them evidence and they still say, Nope, didn't.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Happen exactly, just a complete refusal to acknowledge anything but
their version. It's a total dismissal.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
But regardless of the why this feels important, the impact
is the problem.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
That's the crucial takeaway. Intent doesn't erase the harm. It's
damaging behavior period no one should.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Have to put up with. And it works because it's
often so sneaky, so subtle.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It's not always big dramatic fights. Often it's these little phrases,
these small interactions that minimize how you feel, shift the blame,
make your worries seem silly.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
A constant drip of doubt.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, and over time that leaves you feeling confused, angry
but not sure why, insecure, just constantly questioning yourself.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Which is why recognizing the language they use is so powerful.
Let's maybe break down a few common phrases.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Good idea, Yeah, because the way they're used is key.
How about I really think you need to calm down?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Classic right instantly makes your reaction.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
The problem exactly. You could be reacting totally appropriately to
something awful, but nope, the focus shifts to how you're reacting,
not what you're reacting to. It completely trivializes the issue.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
A healthy response would be more like, why you seem
really upset? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Precisely validation, not dismissal. Okay, here's another one. Maybe sad
about you to someone else, just so you know, my
partner's been acting a little irrationally lately.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
That's sitting the stage.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
It's isolation, pure and simple. They're poisoning the well, planting
doubt in others' minds, maybe to make you more dependent
on them, or just to control the story. So if
you do reach out, people already think you're the unstable.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
One, undermining your support system before you even use it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Nast very then there's the deflection. You're bullying me, ah
the victim card right now. Obviously, actual bullying is wrong,
but gas lighters weaponize this accusation when you're just trying
to say hold them accountable or set a boundary. Totally,
they become the victim. You become the aggressor, and it
plays on insecurities. If you worry about being too harsh,
(06:38):
that accusation can really make you back down fast.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay, how about the non apology apology I'm sorry if
you're mad?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Eh? That little if it sounds like an apology, but
it takes zero responsibility, doesn't it none at all? The
problem isn't what they did. The problem is you're feeling.
Your anger is the issue. Apparently, a real apology would
be curious about the anger, want to fix things that
if just sidesteps everything.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Then there are the ones directly targeting your support network,
like I'm not sure your friends really have your best
interests at heart.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, another isolation tactic. Sometimes sadly friends aren't great, but
in this context, it's usually about cutting you off from
outside perspectives, making you rely solely on the gas.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Later a good reality check there is probably thinking weight
has these people I've trusted for years suddenly turned back?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Exactly? Trust your gut on that one. Then there's you're
too emotional heard that one.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Before, usually aimed at women, but not always.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Not always. No, it dismisses your feelings entirely. The implication
is that emotions are bad, logic is good, and they
are the logical rational one. Your actual reason for being
emotional gets ignored.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
It's incredibly invalidating. What about sarcasm like oh yeah, your
life is so hard?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Pure trivialization. It just mocks your experience, implies your struggles
aren't real or you're exaggerating, shuts down any real converse station.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Immediately a supportive person asks why you feel that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Way right now? Things get even more insidious with phrases
like you just think that's what you mean. It's not
what you really mean.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Whoa telling you what's in your own head?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yes, it's countering your self perception. They claim to know
your mind better than you do. That directly attacks your
self trust, makes you doubt your own thoughts.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
That's deeply manipulative, similar maybe to you don't really want that?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Very similar. It often just means I don't want you
to have that, but they frame it as knowing your
desires better than you. It makes you feel incompetent, unable
to choose for yourself it's withholding control.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And then say a professional setting, maybe something like look
I know about these things.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, that can be tricky. Sometimes it's just someone stating
their expertise. But if there's a power imbalance doctor, patient, boss, employee,
it can be used to shut down your experience, like
my expertise trumps your lived reality.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Making them the sole source of truth.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Right form of isolation. Then you get the really blunt
stuff like just you're crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Doesn't get much more direct than that.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Nope, total responsibility dodge makes you question your sanity, your judgment.
It's a direct hit.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And sometimes they try to back that up right, like
so and so thanks, you're crazy too.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, the invisible Armies. They rarely name names, do they.
It's always everyone thinks this or people are saying it.
Just reinforces that feeling of isolation. Making it seem like
the whole world agrees with them, makes you feel completely
alone in your view. And finally, the bedrock of gaslighting
outright denial it didn't happen that way, just flat out
(09:39):
rewriting history exactly, telling you your memory is wrong, that
something you clearly recall never occurred or happened differently. It
creates so much confusion and self doubt. It's incredibly effective.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Unfortunately, understanding these phrases is huge, And you mentioned earlier.
In relationships, this often follows a kind of cycle.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, researchers have noticed a pattern often in three stages.
It frequently kicks off with something called love bombing.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Love bombing, what's that?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
It's like an overwhelming flood of affection and attention right
at the start, constant compliments, gifts, always texting, just making
the person feel incredibly special and adored.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Why do that?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, it builds a really strong emotional bond fast makes
the person more likely to overlook problems later, you know,
creates this really positive initial image that's hard to let
go of. If the bad stuff started immediately, you might
just leave. So it hooks you in pretty much, and
it can reappear later too, after fights to pull you
back in.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Okay, So after the love bombing.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Then comes stage two, the gas lighting cycle itself. This
is where the manipulation really takes hold. Researchers talk about
these feedback loops loops. Yeah, Like, first the person being
gas lit gets really focused on how the gas lighter
sees them. They might start explaining away bad behavior to
keep that initial good image intact.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Second, isolation often kicks in the gas lighter, pushes friends
in family away, so the person doesn't get outside reality checks.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Right, We talked about those phrases exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And Third, all of this, the gas lighting, the rationalizing,
the isolation, it all feeds on itself. It wears down
the person's self worth, makes them trust others less and
deepens the cycle.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
That sounds exhausting and confusing. Is there a way out?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yes, that's stage three, insight and recovery. It starts the
moment the person recognizes what's happening, the light bulb moment
kind of yeah. Just acknowledging I am being daslighted allows
them to see their partner's behavior more clearly without that
idealized filter from the love bombing stage. And that insight
is what breaks the cycle.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
But the damage done before that insight it can.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Be significant, Oh incredibly So people talk about feeling like
they've lost their sense of self, feeling worthless, confused.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Just broken understandable.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
They can become really guarded, mistrustful of everyone, which sadly
can lead to even more isolation, maybe even.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Paranoia and the mental health impact.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It's serious. Research links gas lighting to higher stress, fear, anxiety, depression, PTSD,
even things like substance abuse, personality disorders, in extreme cases, psychosis,
self harm, or suicidal thoughts.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
That's heavy, it is.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And it's why you know. If you or someone you
know is going through this, reaching out is so important.
There are hotlines, crisis lines, resources are.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Available, absolutely critical dimension So looking at the person doing
the gas lighting, what's driving them? Why do people do this?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Research usually points to two main motivations, often working together.
One is avoiding.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Accountability, dodging blame right.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
For anything, really cheating, not pulling their weight, breaking promises
they deny, they shift blame. The problem isn't my behavior,
it's your reaction or you're too sensitive.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Okay, that makes sense. What's the other driver?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
A need for control. Gas Lighting is a powerful way
to keep someone dependent, to stop them from becoming too
independent or confident. By constantly making them doubt their own judgment,
their abilities, their perceptions, you keep them reliant on you.
This control need often shows up in other ways too, threats, rules.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Verbal abuse, So avoiding blame and needing control often mixed together.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Often Yes, now most of this understanding initially came from
studying personal relationships, right, Yeah, but it's getting much more
attention in the workplace now too, which is good because
it definitely happens there. For a long time though, there
wasn't much formal research specifically on workplace gaslighting.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But that's changing.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
It is. Some recent work has actually developed tools to
measure it, like the gas Lighting at Work Questionnaire.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Okay, what does that measure?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
It focuses on two main things, trivialization and affliction.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Privialization like we talked about with the phrases minimizing concerns.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Exactly, a boss undermining an employee's perspective, their fears, making
them feel like their view just doesn't matter. And affliction
that's more direct, the boss actually inflicting emotional pain, directing
negative feelings towards the employee.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
So the research defines workplace gaslighting as a boss using
both of those things, trivializing and causing distress.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
That's the refined definition. Yeah, someone in power using both
trivialization and affliction, And studies using this are finding links
like more gaslighting seems connected to more role conflict, you know,
when employees get conflicting demands.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Maybe the stress makes bosses lash out.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
That way could be and not surprisingly, it's negatively linked
to job satisfaction. Being gaslighted at work makes for a
pretty miserable, toxic environment.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Makes perfect sense. So okay, if you think this is
happening to you at work or anywhere, what can you
actually do? How do you respond?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well? There was this really interesting discussion drawing from online
forums actually, that suggested a strategy basically become a wall.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Become a wall. How does that work?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
The idea is the gaslighter wants a reaction, right, They
want to shift the blame onto you, make you emotional,
make you doubt yourself. So the wall strategy is about
not giving them that reaction, calm trying to yeah, don't
overreact emotionally, calmly, restate your position or what you experienced.
If they say that didn't happen, you might say that's
not how I remember it, or I know what I heard.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
If they push, maybe say something like, we clearly see
this differently, let's talk about it later. The key is consistency.
Don't get sucked into arguing the same points over and
over or trying desperately to convince them.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Don't feed the cycle exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And another good point raised was, look, it's okay to
pause and think, could I possibly be wrong here, especially
if it's a one off thing. We all misremember sometimes right,
But crucially, don't automatically dismiss your own view, especially if
you see a pattern emerging. If this kind of misunderstanding
keeps happening, pay attention, trust the patterns, the pattern, and
(15:51):
also acknowledge that dealing with this is exhausting. It's okay
to decide you need space from relationships where this is happening.
There's this idea that a relationship can only be as
healthy as the least healthy person in it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That's powerful, so beyond the wall idea. Are there other
general tips for resisting this kind of manipulation?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, definitely. A big one is stop trying to change
the manipulator. Their patterns are often very deep seated. Focus
on managing your response. Okay, well know you're on triggers,
what makes you doubt yourself? What are your sensitive spots?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
They might push self awareness huge.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Stick to facts as much as possible, avoid getting drawn
into purely emotional debates. Let go of needing to win
or prove your right to them.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
That's hard. Wanting validation it is.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But you likely won't get it from them. Also, don't
feel you constantly have to defend yourself. That just keeps
you engaged on their terms. Try to end the interaction quickly,
short answers, change the subject, physically leave if you need to.
Boundaries absolutely critical. Know your boundaries, state them, stick to them.
Limit time with people who do this if you can,
(16:55):
try not to take their attacks personally. See them as tactics.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Easier said than done, so time for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Working on your own confidence helps, and talking things over
with a neutral, trusted friend or therapist can be incredibly validating.
Just getting an outside perspective, like a reality check exactly,
and if it feels safe, you might calmly state that
their behavior isn't acceptable. But know that resisting this stuff
is a process. It takes practice, vigilance and being kind
(17:22):
to yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Okay, so wrapping this up, gaslighting, it's this really insidious
manipulation that messes with your sense of reality.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, it's subtle but powerful, and it shows up everywhere
relationships work. Understanding the tactics is really the first defense.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And the core message seems to be about trusting yourself,
your feelings, your perceptions.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
They matter absolutely. If something feels off, it probably is off.
Don't let someone else tell you what you did or
did an experience. Seek out people who validate you, who
see you.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And maybe a final thought for everyone listening, how often
might we maybe completely unintentionally dismiss someone else or get
defensive in a way that makes them question themselves.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Oh, that's a good question. How can we be more
validating in our own communication? How do we build trust
instead of accidentally chipping away at someone else's reality?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Definitely something to reflect on. How do we make sure
we're not the ones holding the gas light? Even a
little bit food for thought.
So have you ever walked away from a chat feeling
totally lost? Like you must be the one who's confused,
even when your get is screaming that you know what happens?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Oh? Absolutely, it's a really disorienting feeling like you've somehow
stepped out of sync with reality exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, and we're going to dig into why that might
be happening today. It comes down to this subtle but
honestly incredibly damaging kind of manipulation called gaslighting.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Right. It's a word we hear thrown around a lot now,
you know, but it's more than just buzz. It describes
a real pattern, a way someone can systematically make you
doubt your own reality.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, it's not just disagreeing, is it.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
It's deeper, much deeper, and it pops up everywhere close relationship, sure,
but also like at work, maybe even with your doctor
sometimes anywhere there's a power dynamic.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Really, we've really gone through a lot of material on this,
trying to understand how it's defined, how it actually looks
in different situations, and even some new research looking at
it in the workplace. And our goal really is to
give you a clearer picture what is gaslighting? How does
it sneak into conversations and hopefully help you feel more
solid in your own perceptions.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's crucial stuff. And the name itself, gaslighting actually has
a pretty fascinating origin. It comes from a play and
then a movie called Gaslight.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh right, the old black and white film, that's the one.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
The whole plot revolves around this husband who is deliberately
messing with his wife's environment to make her think she's
losing her mind.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
How does he do that?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, one of the main things is he keeps dimming
the gaslights in their house subtly, you know, okay, and
when she notices and says, hey, are the lights dimmer,
he completely denies it, tells her she's imagining things, she's mistaken.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And he does other things too, hiding objects, making noises,
all while isolating her so nobody else can confirm what
she's seeing and hearing. It's all designed to make her
doubt her own senses.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
That's chilling. It really shows how someone you trust can
just chip away at your reality bit by bit.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Exact actually constant denial, constant distortion, until you start thinking
maybe I am crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
And that's the core of it, isn't it. Twisting reality.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
That's the definition, really, And it's funny how the term
just exploded recently. Merrion Webster actually named it word of
the Year not too long ago.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Really, why this spikee?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, they pointed to, you know, the whole landscape of misinformation,
fake news, conspiracy theories online. Gas Lighting became the word
people reached for to describe deliberately misleading others for some
kind of gain. The lookups one up something crazy like
seventeen hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Wow. But psychologically it's more specific than just lying right.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh, definitely. The American Psychological Association the APA defines it
as manipulating someone so they doubt their own perceptions, their experiences,
or even their understanding of things, and experts in the
field describe it as a tactic, a deliberate one often
used to distract or shift, blame, or just plane belittle
someone and make them feel small.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
And damage that does.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It can be really pro found. I mean, think about it.
If you can't trust what you see, what you hear,
what you feel, that's fundamental, you start to lose trust
in your own internal compass.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, you'd constantly be second guessing yourself.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Constantly leads to deep insecurity. You might even start to
wonder if there's something genuinely wrong with your mental health
just because someone else keeps insisting your reality isn't real.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
And like you said, it's not just in marriages.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Like the movie, No, not at all. It happens at work,
between a boss and employee, within families, parents and kids, siblings,
even say in a doctor's office, where there's that inherent
authority imbalance.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's about the manipulation within that power dynamic.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Precisely, and it helps to know that people might do
it for different reasons, not always the same motivation. You know,
like what well experts talk about a few types. You've
got the malicious gas lighter. This is someone maybe with
a narcissistic or sociopathic traits, who is intentionally manipulating for control.
It's a core tool for them.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Okay, that sounds pretty calculating.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It often is. Then you have maybe uh self protecting
gas lighters, people who lie or twist things mainly to
avoid getting into trouble.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So let's about dominating the other person, more about saving
their own.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Skin, kind of like maybe they messed up at work
and try to convince everyone the instructions were different, making
you doubt your memory. There's still gaslighting by denying your reality,
but the primary driver might be avoiding consequences. Some suggest
these folks might feel remorse if confronted.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Maybe interesting distinction still harmful.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Though, oh absolutely. And then there's a really tough one,
the kind of person who denies your reality even when
you have like cold hard proof, You.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Share them evidence and they still say, Nope, didn't.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Happen exactly, just a complete refusal to acknowledge anything but
their version. It's a total dismissal.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
But regardless of the why this feels important, the impact
is the problem.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
That's the crucial takeaway. Intent doesn't erase the harm. It's
damaging behavior period no one should.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Have to put up with. And it works because it's
often so sneaky, so subtle.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It's not always big dramatic fights. Often it's these little phrases,
these small interactions that minimize how you feel, shift the blame,
make your worries seem silly.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
A constant drip of doubt.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, and over time that leaves you feeling confused, angry
but not sure why, insecure, just constantly questioning yourself.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Which is why recognizing the language they use is so powerful.
Let's maybe break down a few common phrases.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Good idea, Yeah, because the way they're used is key.
How about I really think you need to calm down?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Classic right instantly makes your reaction.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
The problem exactly. You could be reacting totally appropriately to
something awful, but nope, the focus shifts to how you're reacting,
not what you're reacting to. It completely trivializes the issue.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
A healthy response would be more like, why you seem
really upset? What's going on?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Precisely validation, not dismissal. Okay, here's another one. Maybe sad
about you to someone else, just so you know, my
partner's been acting a little irrationally lately.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
That's sitting the stage.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
It's isolation, pure and simple. They're poisoning the well, planting
doubt in others' minds, maybe to make you more dependent
on them, or just to control the story. So if
you do reach out, people already think you're the unstable.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
One, undermining your support system before you even use it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Nast very then there's the deflection. You're bullying me, ah
the victim card right now. Obviously, actual bullying is wrong,
but gas lighters weaponize this accusation when you're just trying
to say hold them accountable or set a boundary. Totally,
they become the victim. You become the aggressor, and it
plays on insecurities. If you worry about being too harsh,
(06:38):
that accusation can really make you back down fast.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay, how about the non apology apology I'm sorry if
you're mad?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Eh? That little if it sounds like an apology, but
it takes zero responsibility, doesn't it none at all? The
problem isn't what they did. The problem is you're feeling.
Your anger is the issue. Apparently, a real apology would
be curious about the anger, want to fix things that
if just sidesteps everything.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Then there are the ones directly targeting your support network,
like I'm not sure your friends really have your best
interests at heart.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, another isolation tactic. Sometimes sadly friends aren't great, but
in this context, it's usually about cutting you off from
outside perspectives, making you rely solely on the gas.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Later a good reality check there is probably thinking weight
has these people I've trusted for years suddenly turned back?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Exactly? Trust your gut on that one. Then there's you're
too emotional heard that one.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Before, usually aimed at women, but not always.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Not always. No, it dismisses your feelings entirely. The implication
is that emotions are bad, logic is good, and they
are the logical rational one. Your actual reason for being
emotional gets ignored.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
It's incredibly invalidating. What about sarcasm like oh yeah, your
life is so hard?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Pure trivialization. It just mocks your experience, implies your struggles
aren't real or you're exaggerating, shuts down any real converse station.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Immediately a supportive person asks why you feel that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Way right now? Things get even more insidious with phrases
like you just think that's what you mean. It's not
what you really mean.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Whoa telling you what's in your own head?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yes, it's countering your self perception. They claim to know
your mind better than you do. That directly attacks your
self trust, makes you doubt your own thoughts.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
That's deeply manipulative, similar maybe to you don't really want that?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Very similar. It often just means I don't want you
to have that, but they frame it as knowing your
desires better than you. It makes you feel incompetent, unable
to choose for yourself it's withholding control.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And then say a professional setting, maybe something like look
I know about these things.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, that can be tricky. Sometimes it's just someone stating
their expertise. But if there's a power imbalance doctor, patient, boss, employee,
it can be used to shut down your experience, like
my expertise trumps your lived reality.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Making them the sole source of truth.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Right form of isolation. Then you get the really blunt
stuff like just you're crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Doesn't get much more direct than that.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Nope, total responsibility dodge makes you question your sanity, your judgment.
It's a direct hit.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And sometimes they try to back that up right, like
so and so thanks, you're crazy too.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, the invisible Armies. They rarely name names, do they.
It's always everyone thinks this or people are saying it.
Just reinforces that feeling of isolation. Making it seem like
the whole world agrees with them, makes you feel completely
alone in your view. And finally, the bedrock of gaslighting
outright denial it didn't happen that way, just flat out
(09:39):
rewriting history exactly, telling you your memory is wrong, that
something you clearly recall never occurred or happened differently. It
creates so much confusion and self doubt. It's incredibly effective.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Unfortunately, understanding these phrases is huge, And you mentioned earlier.
In relationships, this often follows a kind of cycle.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, researchers have noticed a pattern often in three stages.
It frequently kicks off with something called love bombing.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Love bombing, what's that?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
It's like an overwhelming flood of affection and attention right
at the start, constant compliments, gifts, always texting, just making
the person feel incredibly special and adored.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Why do that?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, it builds a really strong emotional bond fast makes
the person more likely to overlook problems later, you know,
creates this really positive initial image that's hard to let
go of. If the bad stuff started immediately, you might
just leave. So it hooks you in pretty much, and
it can reappear later too, after fights to pull you
back in.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Okay, So after the love bombing.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Then comes stage two, the gas lighting cycle itself. This
is where the manipulation really takes hold. Researchers talk about
these feedback loops loops. Yeah, Like, first the person being
gas lit gets really focused on how the gas lighter
sees them. They might start explaining away bad behavior to
keep that initial good image intact.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Second, isolation often kicks in the gas lighter, pushes friends
in family away, so the person doesn't get outside reality checks.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Right, We talked about those phrases exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
And Third, all of this, the gas lighting, the rationalizing,
the isolation, it all feeds on itself. It wears down
the person's self worth, makes them trust others less and
deepens the cycle.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
That sounds exhausting and confusing. Is there a way out?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yes, that's stage three, insight and recovery. It starts the
moment the person recognizes what's happening, the light bulb moment
kind of yeah. Just acknowledging I am being daslighted allows
them to see their partner's behavior more clearly without that
idealized filter from the love bombing stage. And that insight
is what breaks the cycle.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
But the damage done before that insight it can.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Be significant, Oh incredibly So people talk about feeling like
they've lost their sense of self, feeling worthless, confused.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Just broken understandable.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
They can become really guarded, mistrustful of everyone, which sadly
can lead to even more isolation, maybe even.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Paranoia and the mental health impact.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It's serious. Research links gas lighting to higher stress, fear, anxiety, depression, PTSD,
even things like substance abuse, personality disorders, in extreme cases, psychosis,
self harm, or suicidal thoughts.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
That's heavy, it is.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And it's why you know. If you or someone you
know is going through this, reaching out is so important.
There are hotlines, crisis lines, resources are.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Available, absolutely critical dimension So looking at the person doing
the gas lighting, what's driving them? Why do people do this?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Research usually points to two main motivations, often working together.
One is avoiding.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Accountability, dodging blame right.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
For anything, really cheating, not pulling their weight, breaking promises
they deny, they shift blame. The problem isn't my behavior,
it's your reaction or you're too sensitive.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Okay, that makes sense. What's the other driver?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
A need for control. Gas Lighting is a powerful way
to keep someone dependent, to stop them from becoming too
independent or confident. By constantly making them doubt their own judgment,
their abilities, their perceptions, you keep them reliant on you.
This control need often shows up in other ways too, threats, rules.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Verbal abuse, So avoiding blame and needing control often mixed together.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Often Yes, now most of this understanding initially came from
studying personal relationships, right, Yeah, but it's getting much more
attention in the workplace now too, which is good because
it definitely happens there. For a long time though, there
wasn't much formal research specifically on workplace gaslighting.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But that's changing.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
It is. Some recent work has actually developed tools to
measure it, like the gas Lighting at Work Questionnaire.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Okay, what does that measure?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
It focuses on two main things, trivialization and affliction.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Privialization like we talked about with the phrases minimizing concerns.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Exactly, a boss undermining an employee's perspective, their fears, making
them feel like their view just doesn't matter. And affliction
that's more direct, the boss actually inflicting emotional pain, directing
negative feelings towards the employee.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
So the research defines workplace gaslighting as a boss using
both of those things, trivializing and causing distress.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
That's the refined definition. Yeah, someone in power using both
trivialization and affliction, And studies using this are finding links
like more gaslighting seems connected to more role conflict, you know,
when employees get conflicting demands.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Maybe the stress makes bosses lash out.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
That way could be and not surprisingly, it's negatively linked
to job satisfaction. Being gaslighted at work makes for a
pretty miserable, toxic environment.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Makes perfect sense. So okay, if you think this is
happening to you at work or anywhere, what can you
actually do? How do you respond?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well? There was this really interesting discussion drawing from online
forums actually, that suggested a strategy basically become a wall.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Become a wall. How does that work?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
The idea is the gaslighter wants a reaction, right, They
want to shift the blame onto you, make you emotional,
make you doubt yourself. So the wall strategy is about
not giving them that reaction, calm trying to yeah, don't
overreact emotionally, calmly, restate your position or what you experienced.
If they say that didn't happen, you might say that's
not how I remember it, or I know what I heard.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
If they push, maybe say something like, we clearly see
this differently, let's talk about it later. The key is consistency.
Don't get sucked into arguing the same points over and
over or trying desperately to convince them.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Don't feed the cycle exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And another good point raised was, look, it's okay to
pause and think, could I possibly be wrong here, especially
if it's a one off thing. We all misremember sometimes right,
But crucially, don't automatically dismiss your own view, especially if
you see a pattern emerging. If this kind of misunderstanding
keeps happening, pay attention, trust the patterns, the pattern, and
(15:51):
also acknowledge that dealing with this is exhausting. It's okay
to decide you need space from relationships where this is happening.
There's this idea that a relationship can only be as
healthy as the least healthy person in it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That's powerful, so beyond the wall idea. Are there other
general tips for resisting this kind of manipulation?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, definitely. A big one is stop trying to change
the manipulator. Their patterns are often very deep seated. Focus
on managing your response. Okay, well know you're on triggers,
what makes you doubt yourself? What are your sensitive spots?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
They might push self awareness huge.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Stick to facts as much as possible, avoid getting drawn
into purely emotional debates. Let go of needing to win
or prove your right to them.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
That's hard. Wanting validation it is.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But you likely won't get it from them. Also, don't
feel you constantly have to defend yourself. That just keeps
you engaged on their terms. Try to end the interaction quickly,
short answers, change the subject, physically leave if you need to.
Boundaries absolutely critical. Know your boundaries, state them, stick to them.
Limit time with people who do this if you can,
(16:55):
try not to take their attacks personally. See them as tactics.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Easier said than done, so time for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Working on your own confidence helps, and talking things over
with a neutral, trusted friend or therapist can be incredibly validating.
Just getting an outside perspective, like a reality check exactly,
and if it feels safe, you might calmly state that
their behavior isn't acceptable. But know that resisting this stuff
is a process. It takes practice, vigilance and being kind
(17:22):
to yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Okay, so wrapping this up, gaslighting, it's this really insidious
manipulation that messes with your sense of reality.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, it's subtle but powerful, and it shows up everywhere
relationships work. Understanding the tactics is really the first defense.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
And the core message seems to be about trusting yourself,
your feelings, your perceptions.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
They matter absolutely. If something feels off, it probably is off.
Don't let someone else tell you what you did or
did an experience. Seek out people who validate you, who
see you.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
And maybe a final thought for everyone listening, how often
might we maybe completely unintentionally dismiss someone else or get
defensive in a way that makes them question themselves.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Oh, that's a good question. How can we be more
validating in our own communication? How do we build trust
instead of accidentally chipping away at someone else's reality?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Definitely something to reflect on. How do we make sure
we're not the ones holding the gas light? Even a
little bit food for thought.
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