November 28, 2025 • 56 mins
In this thought-provoking episode of Mindset Mastery Moments, Dr. Alisa Whyte sits down with Dr. Rachel Laryea, a Yale-trained PhD anthropologist and founder of Kelewele, whose work challenges the dominant narratives of wealth, power, and capitalism. Together, they explore what it truly means to reshape economic systems in a way that honors culture, community, and collective well-being.
Dr. Laryea shares her remarkable journey from Wall Street’s fast-paced financial sector to the deeply intentional world of anthropology and ethical entrepreneurship. She reveals how her Ghanaian heritage, academic research, and lived experiences inspired her to create a business rooted in community-centered economics — one that redefines success beyond individual achievement.
Throughout their powerful conversation, Dr. Alisa and Dr. Laryea unpack the complex relationship between race, wealth, and access, highlighting the ways traditional capitalist frameworks often leave marginalized communities behind. They examine how entrepreneurship can become a tool for liberation when built with cultural integrity, shared value, and an abundance mindset at its core.
This episode illuminates the importance of shifting from scarcity to collaboration, from extraction to empowerment, and from individual gain to collective advancement. Dr. Laryea offers a refreshing, necessary perspective on what ethical entrepreneurship looks like — and why cultural roots can be a catalyst for economic innovation.
🌐 Connect with Dr. Rachel Laryea
Instagram — Dr. Laryea
🔗 https://www.instagram.com/drlaryea/
Kelewele NYC
🔗 https://www.instagram.com/kelewelenyc/
Black Capitalism
🔗 https://www.instagram.com/black.capitalism/
🎙️ Connect & Grow with Dr. Alisa Whyte
Global Empowerment Leader | International Bestselling Author | The #1 Mindset Disrupter™
🌐 Podcast Website:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
Welcome to Mindset Mastery Moments, the best growth
mindset podcast, recognized bymillion podcasts and ranked as a
top mindset podcast by FeedSpot.
We're proud to be in the top 1%on listen notes.
Join Dr.
Alyssa White as we explorepowerful insights and strategies
(00:24):
to elevate your mindset.
Let's dive in.
SPEAKER_05 (00:27):
Hello, disruptors, and welcome back to another
phenomenal episode of MindsetMastery Moments.
Well, today we're going to flipthe lens.
What if capitalism isn'tsomething you escape?
Hmm, but something you reshapefor the collective good.
My yesterday brings WallSecrets, Ivy Lean Brilliance,
(00:50):
and Cultural Roots together tochallenge how we think about
wealth, ownership, and freedom.
She's proof that you can thriveinside the system without losing
yourself.
And I'm telling you, it's one ofthe things that keep me going.
She is sparking a conversationthat's urgent for our time.
I'm honored to welcome Dr.
(01:11):
Rachel Larley to my interestmoment.
Let me tell you a little bitmore about her before you hear
from her.
Dr.
Rachel Larry Larrier is aninvestment practice at JP Morgan
Asset and Wealth Management, aYale-trained PhD anthropologist
and the founder of Kinley Willy,a culture-found forward
(01:32):
lifestyle brand built aroundplantain.
Her story began in 2014 as abroke vegan undergrad at NYU.
She interned a Goldman Fast oncemultiple jobs, including a life
live-in nanny in New York.
She stretched her budget bycooking affordable plantain
(01:53):
dishes.
Now wait till we tell you whatyou can do with plantain.
Started as survival food turnedinto a movement, from plantain
brownies to ice skiing, tocookies, and even a plantain and
blespen burger.
Rachel turned her experimentsinto Kelewele, a brand launched
at a plantain party in 2018 thatraised just a few hundred
(02:15):
dollars, but grew to generateover$200,000 in gross revenue by
2021.
She secured partnerships withNew York, NYC's cafes, and even
test its own storefront inBrooklyn's decab market.
She built all of this whilepursuing dual PhDs at Yale and
working on Wall Street.
Today her story has beenfeatured in form, spotlighted by
(02:38):
Goody Sanchez and herforthcoming book, Black
Capitalist from Penguin RandomHouse, asked roll questions
about whether blackprofessionals can thrive within
capitalism without replicatingthe very system that once
oppressed us.
Listen, we are going to betalking today.
So scoot up your chair, get yourfavorite beverage, and listen,
(03:01):
share this with someone so thatyou guys can talk about it
after.
Welcome to Mindset MasteryMoments again.
Tell us who you are in your ownwords, what you do, and exactly
(03:23):
why you are.
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
Yeah, thank you so much, Dr.
White, for having me.
It's such an honor and aprivilege to be here and be in
conversation with you.
I mean a little bit about me.
I think everything that I'vebeen interested in, everything
that you mentioned in terms ofthe work that I've done has
always been at the nexus ofrace, social good, and ethical
(03:45):
entrepreneurship.
I'm someone who's always reallybeen interested in race and
money.
And I think the stories thatI've told about that in
different mediums really shareinsights about that kind of
critical relationship betweenrace and money.
And today, you know, I do a fewthings.
I work at JP Morgan Chase, wherecurrently I'm a wealth
(04:06):
management researcher.
My past role at the firm was aninvestment strategy.
I continue to run Killy Willieas well.
Also just, you know, publishedmy book, With You Spoke To,
Black Capitalist, A Blueprintfor What is Possible.
And then that work is reallyspecial to me because I think it
really crystallizes so many ofmy experiences across academia,
(04:29):
nonprofit, for-profit,entrepreneurship to really tell
a story about how do we navigatethis crazy thing, this crazy
system called capitalism in away that's going to be in
service of us, really with anethos of black consciousness and
really with an eye towardseconomic liberation as well.
(04:53):
And so I'm just excited to behere and to share that message.
SPEAKER_05 (04:56):
I'm excited and then so happy to hear that you wrote
the book.
I mean, there've been, ofcourse, a lot of individuals
right somewhere in this subjectarea.
What's unique, and I haven'tread all of them, I read just a
couple.
And I'm still getting my my feetinto navigating capitalism.
But I feel like the premise thatyou are writing from resonates
(05:21):
very deeply with me.
I first of all, you're firstgeneration American.
We talked about this off camera.
I am uh I legally immigrated aUSA half of my life ago.
And so I've spent the same timeliving in Gayana, South America
and living in the USA.
And I am built on covering thecapitalism, what capitalism is
(05:43):
and how it affects us.
And I seem to be just uncoveringit so much over time.
The one thing though, animmigrant as a woman of color
living in the United States, Ihave never um subscribed to that
I am less than or that successis something that I won't have
(06:05):
because of the color of my skin.
However, I am I think I was alsoliving in a world where I did
not see quote unquote color.
I did not under I know color andracism and prejudices exist, and
I just like to say prejudicesbecause racism is one of a
prejudice, right?
There's also the fact of being awoman, being an immigrant, and
(06:27):
all this stuff.
Um we're not gonna we're notgoing over on politics and all
that.
We're just going on what myexperience is here, guys.
So don't shut us down.
I'm building up something herethat Rachel is gonna help us
address.
Um what I'm learning though isthere's all kinds of mindsets
that we can have through acapitalist society.
(06:49):
And one that you are speakingand encouraging us to is one
that I firmly believe in isdon't let it stop you from being
and doing what you've put onthis earth to do and be and
have.
And that's what I am gettingfrom your work, from what you've
written and what you stand for.
(07:10):
If you don't mind commenting onthat as deep or as high or
wherever you want to go, you'reyou're you know how to handle
yourself and and you're welcometo speak freely here at Mindset
Master Moments to educate ourlisteners and viewers.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
And I think what's reallyimportant to also comment on is
you were kind of sharing yourown experiences immigrating to
this country and naturalizingand even kind of the mindset
that you had around not feelingthat you were precluded from any
opportunity, right?
I think that's so importantbecause I think for a lot of I'm
(07:49):
a first generation American.
And so growing up in a householdof Ghanaian immigrants, it was a
similar ethos around if you putin the effort, if you focus on
your education, specificallythat was, you know, my mother's
mantra, you can achieve.
And so the mindset, I think,from that kind of immigrant lens
(08:12):
adds a level of nuance that Ican't say is something that is
shared when you're talking abouta global black community.
The context is different, thecontext is different in the
sense of we can have a sharedkind of mindset and how we
relate to capitalism or relateto institutions or structures,
(08:34):
but say a black Americanperspective of a person who
might have a longstandingintergenerational legacy in the
US can be a very differentcontext for how they might
relate to institutions, relateto capitalism, relate to
themselves, and what they mightbelieve is possible for them,
because that context of race isvery different than what it was
(08:57):
for me, for example.
And so I think it's reallyimportant to name in the context
of recognizing, even still, thatdespite the nuances within the
black community intra-racially,there is still the same hopes
and desires and motivations whenwe're talking about how can I
(09:18):
make sure that I have financialsecurity?
How can I make sure that my, youknow, my dreams and motivations
are fulfilled in the long term.
We all want that for ourselves.
And so it then becomes about howdo we do it together?
Because I think what capitalismdoes exceptionally well is it
breeds a nature and a behavioraround individualism.
(09:42):
It makes us believe that thereare not enough resources for all
of us to win.
It makes us believe that inorder for me to be successful,
someone else has to be defeated.
And it breeds this kind ofscarcity mindset.
Yeah.
And so ultimately, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And so the opportunity for us isreally to notice what's going on
(10:03):
in that kind of systemic cultureand say, we're gonna do
something different and we'regonna respond to it differently
in service of the collective usrather than in service of the
individual.
And this is really around thekind of black consciousness
piece that I think is socritical because it's not about
saying that capitalism is good.
(10:25):
We know and can point to allevidence of violence,
exploitation, and extractionthat is embedded in the
framework and the creation ofit, especially in a Western
context.
But it is about saying thesystem that we have in front of
us is a system that's stillgoing to allow us to have some
level of choice and agency if wework together in order to
(10:51):
achieve it.
Yeah.
And so that is where we have theplaying ground to really kind of
think through okay, how do we dothis thing?
How do we show up in the hereand now in a way that's gonna
allow us to exercise our agencyin service of that kind of
economic liberation that we'relooking for in a way where no
one gets left behind in this?
(11:12):
Right, right.
And so that's that's really thechallenge.
That's the call to action.
Of course, there's challenges,there's nuances, but that really
should be the North Star whenwe're talking about how do we
engage in capitalism today as wemove in service of something
that's a little bit moreequitable for all of us at the
end of the day.
SPEAKER_05 (11:31):
Yes, I absolutely love that.
I concur with that.
One of the things when wecreated or everything about what
I do with mindset, mindsetmaster moment, mindset master
260, everyone knows mindset,mindset, mindset is what I talk
about.
Because when it comes toeverything that's presented to
(11:51):
us as humans, to humanity, I ofcourse because I am a black
woman, a black person, that'swhere my lens is always gonna be
my area, and that's the thepeople who I'm gonna relate to
most on the planet, our journey.
And so I believe that mindset isthe key to our success.
(12:11):
It's the key to socio in thebottom, it's in the foundation
of socioeconomic developmentthroughout Western civilization,
on the African continent, thediaspora, wherever we go, it's
going to be how we think andsee.
And so that's why I'm sopassionate about teaching how to
mainly to attack the scarcitymindset, because scarcity
(12:36):
mindset is so sneaky.
It is one of the most sneakythings for adverse ways of
thinking that sneaks up on us inall areas of our life, from what
we drive to what we wear, whatwe eat, when we eat, who we
spend time with, how we interactand communicate, collaborate or
not collaborate with people isbeneath that simple word of
(12:59):
scarcity.
So it's what we're gonna tacklea lot here.
And Rachel has written thisawesome book.
I'm gonna tell you from now, ifyou're listening to this, get a
copy of it.
See, again, my guests do notcome here asking me to promote
things, but if they're on thisplatform, it's because their
message resonates with not justour podcast.
(13:20):
It's not good for ratings anddownloads, it's actually what I
believe in.
And when I say it, you're gonnawant to get a copy of this book
and connect with what shestarted.
Rachel, let's dive in a littledeeper.
You have lived two worlds, as weshared earlier.
People rarely cross Wall Streetand anthropology is a little bit
of a like this girl is a BA, andat the same time, you are
(13:42):
building a cultural blend withPlantins at the center.
Well, when we go anywhere else,tell us when you look at that
journey, what's that summonthread that ties it all
together?
Because a lot of things saymaybe make sense, and it's this
is how we are I call usunicorns.
Um, this is how unicorns areborn.
Tell us how you did it and howwhat brought it all together for
(14:05):
you.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
Yeah, you know, it's a funny thing because I've
always just let my curiositylead me at the end of the day.
And I'll be right now.
Um because I remember my firstjob out of college was at
Goldman Sachs.
(14:26):
And you know, by any estimation,people are like, You got a job
at Goldman, you're doing it.
And I was like, you know what?
I actually think I'm gonna quitmy job to go do this dual PhD in
anthropology and black studiesat Yale.
People are like, what are yougonna do with that?
Why would you even make thatdecision?
And that's just one example, butthere have been so many times in
(14:47):
my life where people are like,What are you gonna do with that?
We don't understand it.
I was like, you don't have tounderstand it.
I just know that my curiosity isleading me to do this thing.
And I think for me, some of theconceptual like kernels in my
life have always been situatedaround what might it mean to be
black and wealthy.
(15:08):
Because growing up inpredominantly white community
that I did, not on account of myfamily's financial circumstance.
My mom, she won a housinglottery through an affordable
housing program that allowed usto live in the community that we
did.
And it was the case that everyrepresentation of wealth that I
(15:28):
saw was associated withwhiteness.
And for me, growing up as ayoung black girl, being in these
spaces, but certainly not ofthem, and occupying the kind of
marginal spaces of thecommunities that I was in, I was
wondering what are thedepictions of black wealth and
where are they and how can Irelate to them?
And so those were the initialquestions that guided my
(15:51):
curiosity that led me to makedecisions that were nonsensical
to others, but it made perfectsense to me.
I think for that first role atGoldman, I didn't know anything
about high finance, but I gotrecruited and it was actually my
older brother who had advisedme.
He was like, just check it out,see what they have to say.
(16:12):
It was an internship prior toyou know going full-time there.
He's like, just see what youknow that opportunity is like.
And it was the first time that Iwas able to really get exposure
to black sociality in thiscontext.
And it ruptured so much of whatI had learned in undergrad
(16:34):
around, again, preconceivednotions on how black people can
or should relate to capitalism.
And we're talking about GoldmanSachs, you know, a leader within
the Wall Street community, andpeople would say that's the
belly of the beast.
Right.
Capitalism.
So here I was dealing with thesellout narrative, quote
(16:58):
unquote, around like, oh, you'redeciding to go here and work
here, but I was like, it's somuch more nuanced and
complicated than that.
Than that.
So we can't resign ourselves tothese reductions of what it
means to show up in certainspaces and you know, leverage
the resources in those spaces inorder to create tangible,
(17:21):
productive outcomes foryourselves and for your
community.
And I saw people doing that forthe first time, and I was like,
oh my goodness, I have to writeabout this, I have to study this
because it was missing in thediscourse that I saw when I was
in undergrad.
And I was like, surely, youknow, I can go to grad school
and really kind of tease thisout because we need to see and
(17:44):
understand this message moreclearly.
So I thought, you know,anthropology was the best way to
do that.
In undergrad, my favoriteprofessors were anthropologists.
And funny enough, though theywere my favorite professors, I
never actually took an anthro101 class.
I just happened to be trained byanthropologists.
So I was like, oh, I need to geta PhD in anthropology because I
(18:05):
love what they're doing, so Ineed to do that.
And that was a very interestingexperience because anthropology
gave me the methodology aroundhow do you interview, how do you
really extract these kind oforal histories, learn from
people, do participantobservation, really put yourself
(18:27):
in the context to understanddeeply the systems, the
phenomenon that you're trying tostudy, and ask the question why
and how to really drill downinto the individual level that
speaks to people's beliefs, toyour point around mindsets and
their behaviors that are abyproduct of those beliefs.
(18:48):
And so that gave me the kind ofmethod, and I paired it with
black studies because my mypassion, my heart is for our
people, and I needed to bereally rooted in a black
consciousness to then leverageand deploy the methodology to
tell the story that was going tobe in service of us.
And so, but part of the curiocurious thing was that you know,
(19:12):
I went to the African AmericanStudies Department at Yale, and
here I come saying, Hey, I wantto tell this story because I've
got this evidence, on-the-groundevidence of how people are using
the tools of this system in newand really profound ways that I
think are really service of us.
(19:33):
And people are looking at mescratching their head, they're
like, don't know about that.
You know, we don't know aboutyou know, capitalism working for
black people.
We don't know about how you canthink about these tools
differently because that iscounter to everything that we've
discussed, everything that we'vefought against.
(19:54):
Right, you know, and so for meit was like I can stand
definitively 10 toes down onthis because I didn't make it
up.
You know, Andy gave me themethod and the evidence of point
to all these people's lives,point to how people are doing
this every single day, and finda sense and point to the fact
(20:15):
that you know we live lives thatare complicated and
contradictory.
America's a contradiction.
It's life, liberty, happiness,you know, but at the same time,
yeah, life, liberty, these arethings that are not guaranteed
to people.
And yet we persist, and yetpeople still pursue this
(20:39):
American dream.
Yeah.
So when it comes to engagementswith capitalism and how we can
operate in systems that, yeah,they might not be designed for
us, but we still persist.
And in community, we still findways to make it and you know,
activate our dreams.
And so that for me was thecritical space that I wanted to
(20:59):
work in and pursue this work,despite, you know, kind of
counter thoughts.
Um, and you know, doing thatstudy at the same time for me
personally.
I always loved plantains.
I'm a fellow plantain lover,yeah, such as yourself.
And I felt like this was thebest time to start a business.
SPEAKER_04 (21:20):
Well, I'm in the throes of grad school is like
this is a time, and I thoughtthat's the craziest time to who
starts a business in the middleof grad school.
SPEAKER_02 (21:31):
Right?
But I thought it really from astrategic standpoint because I
was like Yale, place that isvery well resourced, and they do
not just care about me as astudent, but they care about me
as an entrepreneur as well.
Yeah, and so I am going to usethese six years that I have with
(21:52):
almost unlimited resources at mydisposal to make the most of it,
you know, and so I was at theentrepreneurial center, I was
talking to all of the advisors,I was getting all the grants
because I was like, this time isso crucial.
And so I'm going to make themost of it.
And so I think just having avery strategic framework was
(22:14):
also intentional for me to makethe most out of any seat that I
found myself in.
Um, and so that was huge.
That was huge, and that's whatled me to start Killowilly
really focused on culturalfamiliarity, but also doing
something that was innovativeand unique.
Cause I think for me, I, youknow, transitioned into a pre
(22:35):
primarily a plant-based dietwhen I was an undergrad.
You know, plantains came to thefore for me because I was like,
wow, you know, they'remeat-free, they're meat
substitute, they're dairysubstitute.
So I was making all these dishesand I'd like to.
SPEAKER_03 (22:49):
I did not even know that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:51):
Yeah.
And I'd go to the grocery storeand I'd go to the vegan aisle
and I'd see nothing wasresonating with me culturally.
I was seeing like beyond me,impossible, and all these other
things, and they're all well andgood, but I wasn't seeing
anything that reminded me ofgrowing up in my mom's home
(23:11):
making me Ghanaian food.
I didn't see that, you know.
And so I needed to see somethingthat reflected me.
And so that was really why Istarted Killowilly.
And, you know, it's existed inso many different ways now.
We just recently this year addeda hospitality element to it.
And so we offered travel staysactually on a beach lodge in
(23:32):
Mafia Island that I was able toacquire this year, and it's
beautiful, and it's a way toreally get people back to the
continent to get everything, Ibelieve, has to be situated in
roots, it has to get back to thesource of whatever the thing is.
And so that's been a great wayto just bring the business back
(23:55):
home on the continent.
And, you know, I think anytimeyou're talking about food, it
conjures up memory, belonging,identity.
And so it was really importantto create experiences that spoke
to that as well.
Um, yeah, and so that becamepart of the grad school journey.
And then towards the end of it,going back into finance, it was
really with this super nuancedand refined thinking about okay,
(24:21):
if I'm going to be now at JPMorgan Chase, be back in, you
know, the belly of the beast, ifyou will, it's really about what
is the role that I'm playingthat is in service of black
consciousness, that is inservice of community making, in
a way that's going to help, youknow, our people and move the
needle.
(24:41):
And so that's always front ofmind for me around how can I use
the seat that I'm in to make apositive difference when you're
talking about economicliberation.
Yeah.
And so that's been the throughline, the journey.
You know, for some people,they're now starting to get it,
which is funny because you know,when I first had that leap to
leave Goldman, they're like,What are you doing with this?
(25:03):
And now looking back, they'relike, Oh, we see what you're
doing.
We're seeing right.
SPEAKER_05 (25:06):
It takes a minute, it takes a good minute for
people to catch up.
I love the main point that yousaid.
You said, I first of all, youlead with curiosity.
I believe that's one of thebiggest things that you can do
with your life and your mindsetis we a lot of us have these
shoulders in you should be oryou're supposed to.
(25:27):
And a lot of times when we'refunctioning under those
frameworks, it's not our own.
And that's kind of kind of justto get off course of your own
true North Star or off-purposeor your own why.
And that's what leads to a lotof the dissatisfaction that a
lot of folks find themselves in,whether it's later in life or
(25:47):
throughout life.
And so that's one thing I wantto point out to our listeners
and viewers.
The other thing is, you know, itsounds really wild to uh put
yourself in the belly of thebeast to be doing starting a
business while you're in gradschool.
This all this stuff about whatyou said is so phenomenal.
Everything that you said was andhearing that how can I mindset,
(26:10):
right?
What can I do while I'm here?
And if I can point out, a lot oftimes Americans have asked, will
ask me, well, Elisa, what is whyis it that you know, an
immigrant, why are immigrantscomfortable just coming over
here and letting these peoplepay you whatever?
(26:32):
Or letting them treat you andtalk to you however.
One of the things that comeswith being an immigrant is we
know dollar for dollar, dollaris a dollar wherever you go, but
at the same time, wheneveryou're in the US, a dollar
translates to so many dollarsfrom wherever we come from,
right?
And so we do the math and weknow that over wherever we are,
(26:56):
there aren't as many jobs.
So whether we're wiping thefloor, clean tables at
McDonald's or cleaning schoolsat the end of the day and
picking up, you know, stuff offthe floor that no one wants to
touch or smell.
We know that that if they'regiving us minimum wage, if it's
$7 an hour, it's equal to somany thousands of dollars where
(27:18):
we come from.
And then we're going to be ableto live in a very small home, a
low-income home, or share homewith multiple family members,
different generations thatcreates a support system for
kids to be able to drop off theschool, get meals, be safe,
still be in the village and inthe community that we're so used
(27:39):
to.
And then we're going to help paythe bills together, which cuts
it by so much, and then we'regoing to pool our money together
to buy another home and build ahome or establish a business for
family members that is inanother country.
And I can go on and on with thestory, but it's all we're
thinking as immigrants is howcan I get ahead?
And it's how can we worktogether so we can get ahead.
(28:03):
When when Rachel got on here,she started talking about
instead of we already havecapitalism, we're not gonna move
it out at all.
It's working around it.
So, Rachel, here's one thing Ilove that you said I had to
share that story because a lotof people asked me that
question, and I wanted to givepeople through my perspective,
(28:23):
again, I'm not speaking for allimmigrants, what generally, even
from speaking to so manyimmigrants, what our market is
and how we approach coming intothe USA, not understanding
capitalism at all, butapproaching life as a village.
And we and I'm telling you, I'velooked across Dominican,
Mexican, you know, all theimmigrants, different from
(28:46):
different places from Africa.
What I just described is athread that we use through our
cultures.
A lot of living in the USA isthe reason why you would see uh
uh one of us driving um acatalog, but we went and bought
it from a buy here, pay hereplace.
We probably cash for way lessthan what it it's worth.
(29:07):
It looks really nice and shiny,but we all can fit in there.
And so we we're we we might looklike we just got the nicest car,
but we bought it because it canfit everybody in there and it's
reliable.
So just understand.
So this is what Rachel says.
She says that you you really itreally, really just stopped me
(29:27):
in the trap.
And that's what correlated withwhat I just said.
Capitalism isn't something toescape, it is something to
reshape.
It sounds radical because itmakes us uncomfortable.
Like, how the heck do we reshapecapitalism?
What does it actually mean inpractice when you talked about
it, Rachel?
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
Yeah, great question.
It really means firstunderstanding how capitalism
works, understanding what it isand what are its primary
outputs.
So I think as I Spoken to peopleeven in the development of this
book.
Um, people have wildly differentdefinitions of capitalism, and
(30:07):
some of those definitions aremore emotionally led than
definitionally led, right?
And it could be, oh, it's theroot of all evil, or it's this
thing designed to keep us down.
Um but capitalism is really aneconomic system that prioritizes
and focuses on private ownershipand profitability in excess.
That's what it's really about: private ownership and (30:31):
undefined
profitability.
And so for me, I think it'simportant to understand how it
drives at those two things,ownership and profitability,
through some of the things thatwe talked about before.
That notion of individualism,that notion of scarcity mindset,
(30:51):
competition, exploitation,because it's if I can exploit
and extract someone's labor,then I can sell the byproduct of
that labor in excess as thecapitalist to make excess
profit, right?
Um, and so those become like thecore tenets of capitalism and
(31:12):
understanding how it functionsin that way.
Then it's okay, I've got theunderstanding.
How do I then relate to it?
Because again, I think, and thisis where it gets nuanced.
It's not to say that the idea ofowning things is bad.
People have entrepreneurialdreams, people have dreams to
own a home, own a business,whatever it is.
(31:33):
And people also have dreams tobe profitable, to have more
discretionary income or passiveincome that exceeds the money
that you need to live yourday-to-day life.
Okay.
But then it's how do I strivefor these things in a way that
doesn't reproduce the harms ofcapitalism?
(31:54):
How can I strive towards beingan owner, having more
discretionary income in a waythat's not going to be
exploitative or extractive,violent, or harmful?
And so then the question reallybecomes if you think about
capitalism through a communalmindset, a mindset focused on
collective social good, on akind of black consciousness,
(32:16):
what changes in your beliefs andthen subsequently your
behaviors?
And I think there's so manyexamples of how this starts to
show up.
So for example, and people willsay, Well, I'm not an
entrepreneur.
And a lot of people, especiallywithin the black community,
historically we've beenconsumers because we haven't
(32:36):
historically owned that much inan American context, especially.
And so some might say, Oh, well,there's limited agency within
that.
And I would say, actually,you've got a lot of agency when
you're operating and thinking incommunity, because we oftentimes
feel most agentic when we'revoting.
And that's something thathappens on a not so regular
(32:58):
basis, even though it'spredictable.
But I would say we actually voteevery single day, multiple times
a day with our start to thinkabout collective economic power,
how it then leads to politicalpower, it demands you be in
community with people.
When you think about, yeah, Imight feel like my greatest
(33:21):
contribution to capitalism or mygreatest relationship to
capitalism is through a consumerlens.
But when I start to think aboutthat in relation to other people
too, think about, hey, do wehave shared objectives about how
we want our community to looklike?
Then we start thinking aboutthose organizing principles
about where are we going tospend our money?
(33:42):
How are we going to pool ourmoney together in a way that
allows us to have more capitalcollectively than we otherwise
would have had individually?
What decisions do we then get tohave available to us?
What options open up when westart thinking and moving in
that way?
That's an incredibly powerfulposition to be in.
But it requires and demands yoube in community.
(34:04):
I think another example, youknow, for folks who might be
corporate professionals, theywork in different institutions
like myself.
And again, you might think I'min this big institution, I don't
really have agency in thiscontext, system wasn't designed
for me, built for me.
What is the what is the agencyin that?
And I would say there's actuallya really powerful pragmatic
(34:25):
theory about how we can thinkabout institutions and our
relationship to them.
And it's called theundercommons.
I got that theory from scholarsFred Moten and Stefano Harney,
and they talk about theundercommons in the context of
academic institutions, but Iwould argue that you can
transpose them to other ones.
And they say that you can'taccept the fact that
(34:48):
institutions are a place ofenlightenment.
You know, you can't be naiveenough to believe that,
especially if they havestructural biases.
But you can't ignore the factthat institutions can be places
that have significant resourcesthat you can benefit from.
So for example, let's put thisin the context.
(35:09):
I work on Wall Street.
I'm not going to be naive enoughto say, oh, Wall Street is for
me, black women, as we areseeing unemployment rates
skyrocket amongst black women incorporate America.
I'm not going to sit here andsay that it's for us.
I'm not going to be naive enoughto do that.
But I am going to say that thereare resources, well, the ones of
(35:32):
us who are in corporate America,you know, that we can tap into.
How do you do this?
Again, community.
And so they make the case forhow you can build an
under-common space.
It's a space wherebyprofessionals come together,
they recognize that, okay, we'rein this space.
These spaces are not perfect,but how can we work together,
(35:53):
pool the resources that we allhave as being part of this
space, and really think aboutthe different forms of capital
we have available to us?
And I'm not just talkingmonetary capital, but what's our
social capital?
SPEAKER_05 (36:07):
Human resource capital.
What class do we have access to?
SPEAKER_02 (36:11):
All of that, right?
And cultural capital.
And how can we just createpipelines of access for that
under common space, that kind ofsub-community within the bigger
institutional body to give usaccess to realizing the dreams
or goals that we have.
And so even at JP Morgan Chase,there's an organization called
(36:33):
the African Alliance that I'm apart of.
And that brings togetherhundreds of people on a monthly
basis.
And we collect ourselves onZoom.
We sometimes do in-personactivations.
It becomes a safe space.
Right?
Right.
People connect, they learn, wejust have real talk.
(36:53):
I even found my current jobthrough connecting with a woman
in the undercommons who referredme for the seat that I'm in now.
So these are just examples ofhow you do it.
And I think even from anentrepreneurial lens, you know,
being someone who's in a reallypowerful position to create the
(37:15):
culture of a business.
Come on now.
You have to be asking yourselfthe question of how do I do
this?
This thing of okay, I am anowner of something or private
owner of something.
I certainly want to beprofitable because again, the
bottom line is profitability forbusiness.
But that overlay of social good,what changes in your ethos and
(37:39):
your behavior as a businessowner when you're thinking that
way.
So at the cultural level, it'show do I create a culture for my
employees, for my team, wherethey feel valued for their
intrinsic value, not just fortheir output, you know, and
really making thatcollaborative.
And these are hard questions,you know.
I'm not saying any of this iseasy, but that's the standard
(38:02):
that we have rise to.
Um, and it's possible.
And I think that's thehopefulness of it, because there
are so many examples of howpeople do this in a way where
you can use the tools ofcapitalism, but create new
outputs within it.
SPEAKER_05 (38:18):
I love it.
I love it.
And technically, what Idescribed opening to leading
into the question that youprovided is if you listen
clearly when I talked about howas Emirates again generalizing,
we survived coming from our homecountries into a new world and
coming into a capitalistsociety, what are we aware of
(38:42):
what that is, even I was not.
You know, I had some insightcoming from school, but nothing
prepared me for what it lookedlike in reality in a in a more
developed country, in a thirdworld country, to haves and the
have nots.
And, you know, it's funny, Ipeople thought I was a have and
definitely were not.
But when I looked at how wesurvive it, we're technically on
(39:03):
to something.
And that's why I brought it upand described it because a lot
of us as Americans born andraised here who don't have an
immigrant bloodline or pattern,immigration pattern to the
United States question, how doyou all do it?
Like I went to college, I wentto Yale.
How is Rachel going to Yaledifferent from me going to Yale?
(39:26):
Well, there's a mindset that wasembedded into her without her
knowing it.
And that's why I think you'rethe best, one of, you know, one
of the best, if not the best, toteach on this reshaping of
capitalism for our benefit as apeak, black and brown people as
well.
So here's a question when itcomes to wealth power and
legacy.
What are some of those trapsthat a lot of us as ambitious
(39:49):
professionals often findourselves in when it comes to
building wealth in the systemthat wasn't designed for us?
I mean, this is the reality.
Again, like you said, you're notsaying these things are easy.
If you think it's hard, then itis.
If you think you can do it, thenyou can.
So just understand, we aretrying to open up your mindset.
(40:10):
Where are those?
What does it look like?
SPEAKER_02 (40:12):
Yeah, I would say that um it's such a powerful
question.
One thing that immediately comesto mind that I am super
passionate about now and eventrying to work on here at JP
Morty and Chase is how do weencourage and inspire people to
move from a savings mindset intoan investing one?
(40:35):
Because I think that there, youknow, there's so many dynamics
at play that make the idea ofinvesting very scary, I think,
for a lot of people, becausewhen you've worked so hard,
you've labored so hard for themoney that you've earned, the
fear of losing it, you know, canprevent you from investing it.
(40:58):
Yeah.
And I think just when it comesto even like at a technical
level, in order to maximize yourgrowth, maximize your wealth
potential, investing isnecessary.
And I think the upside of theworld that we're living in now
is that you know, knowledgearound financial literacy and
wellness is becoming more andmore democratized.
(41:19):
And so there's access anddifferent channels to learn
about how to invest.
But there's I think that leap offaith that still has to happen
around okay, I might be savingall of this money, but again,
you're missing out if you're notallowing yourself to actually be
invested in the market.
SPEAKER_05 (41:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (41:40):
And so that's I think a really crucial piece.
Um, yeah, honestly, you know,you talk about mindset, and
we're just I think so in locksup when it comes to this because
I'm so anchored on beliefs andhow that just makes a real, real
critical difference in how you Ithink show up in life, show up
(42:01):
when it comes to uh wealthintergeneral, right
intergenerational wealth andcreation cycle for yourself, for
your family.
And I think it's also aroundjust beliefs around what an
individual an individual feelsthat they are worthy of as well.
You know, and I think it's it'sa harder thing to ask oneself
(42:26):
the question of what can I do?
How can I show up?
What can I learn to make adifference?
It's so much harder to do thatthan it is to say capitalism
doesn't work for me, there's noopportunity.
And I would just challenge us todo the harder thing because I
think that especially when maybethe idea of homeownership or,
(42:47):
you know, when it's some ofthose critical indicators of
wealth, homeownership orbusiness ownership or some kind
of financial health, financialliteracy, you see within the
racial wealth gap how black,Hispanic, and Latino people fall
behind in comparison to theirwhite counterparts.
There is still opportunity, um,even if that doesn't feel
(43:09):
accessible, if again, we'reanchored in a kind of communal
mindset of how we can do ittogether.
Okay, because if it feelsindividually inaccessible,
surely it's possible at thecommunal level, but it really
has to be rooted in that inorder for it to be kind of
actualized.
And so, yeah, but it starts somuch with like opening the
(43:31):
paradigm and shifting it aroundwhat we think we are worthy of,
what's available to us, andwhat's the strategy to activate
it?
SPEAKER_05 (43:39):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Yeah, so those are just some thoughts that come to
mind around some of the maybehurdles to how we think about
wealth and how we access it aswell.
SPEAKER_05 (43:50):
Absolutely.
Wow, very well said.
I mean I mean, I concur with allof it.
In your book, Black CapitalistUm Rewriting, I want to make
sure I say it correctly, theblueprint of what's possible.
SPEAKER_02 (44:04):
A blueprint for what is possible.
SPEAKER_05 (44:07):
A blueprint for what is possible.
That's giving us solution, it'snot just commentary and
research.
You take head on blackcapitalists.
You in that book, you take onthe insight that you give.
You just went head on withbelieve is urgent for us and
right now.
Again, a lot of what I talkabout is always now.
(44:29):
The belief system, shifting thatpower line.
Tell us a little bit more ofwhat you hoped that your readers
would get in terms ofunderstanding the sense of
shifting their belief and takingthat sense of urgency to the
right now.
SPEAKER_02 (44:43):
Yeah, I think that we are living in an
unprecedented time.
I think we are living in timeswhere it's become very clear
that the Calvary is not coming.
It is up to us to create thepresent and future that we want.
SPEAKER_05 (45:01):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (45:02):
And so it's really about how do we do that?
And I think that for so long,especially within the black
community, we have been debatingthe issue of capitalism and
economics at the intersection ofrace for a long time.
And everybody's got their owneconomic identity.
Some people say I'm acapitalist, some people I'm a
(45:24):
socialist, some people I'm ananti-capitalist, whatever it is
that has been the core ofdebate, and so much of the
reason why we haven't been ableto align.
You know, and so for me, I thinkthe greatest hope, the greatest
call to action is unifiedaction.
Even the times that we are in,we cannot afford to keep
(45:47):
debating and arguing.
SPEAKER_03 (45:49):
Come on now.
SPEAKER_02 (45:50):
We have to put that aside and say, what is the
strategy?
Because again, as we weretalking about earlier, we've all
got the same general hopes,dreams, and wants.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we need to do an assessmentof what is the landscape?
What are the tools available tous?
How are we going to actionagainst the unified objectives
(46:12):
that we've collectively agreedare in service of all of us and
those things that wecollectively want together?
Then how what's the playbook?
How do we activate that?
That's the conversation I thinkwe need to be having rather than
capitalism is good, bad, orwhatever, you know?
And so I think that's that's thehope to get us to movement
(46:34):
collectively.
SPEAKER_05 (46:35):
Yes.
Oh, I love it.
Man, time goes by so quickly onyour we have not even uncovered
some of the tenants.
And so I would love to have youback and a couple.
So I'm gonna be reading the booktoo, which will help us really
dive in a little bit more.
But on the show, Rachel alsodoes a segment that's called
(46:58):
Flip the Script.
It's where our guest shares amoment where you have to
completely shift your ownmindset.
And of course, I feel likeyou've shared one with us and
how I changed the trajectory ofyour life.
SPEAKER_02 (47:09):
Oof, goodness.
See, a time where I flip thescript.
Yeah, I feel like I've lived afew lives at this point.
I'm I'm I am agreement withthat.
I'll tell you what, I probablyright now.
I think, you know, after thelaunch of the book, and it was
kind of it was funny because myagent, my literary agent, before
(47:29):
I published the book, she kindof foreshadowed, she was warning
me, she's like, you know, you'regonna have to fight if you're
gonna publish this book.
And I left it off.
I didn't really think too muchof it.
But now that it's published, andnow that I've seen the spectrum
of responses to it, I seeexactly why she said that to me.
You know, it has been really ashifting in my own self around
(47:56):
how can I show up for this in away that's going to, you know,
really just continue to servethe purpose that I know I've
been called to have when itcomes to this work and the
message that I think that is soimportant for us to anchor on
and move on.
And I am truly an introvert.
(48:18):
I'm someone who, you know, lovesto just be in my own space.
Um, and I feel most energized bythat.
But this has really called me toshow up, yeah, speak up, you
know, really be out there inways that have felt truly
uncomfortable.
You know, so I am playing withmy own kind of comfort zones and
(48:41):
extending them and stretchingthem and just really anchoring
on the why as I do that to giveme the energy, you know, and the
resilience to keep showing upfor that.
So yeah, I'm I'm in my own kindof personal journey of growth
that's requiring a lot more ofme than I in the past.
(49:01):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (49:03):
After all of this, Goldman, Yale, JP Morgan, Killy
Rele, how do you define successnow for yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (49:11):
Success, it's definitely doing the scary
thing.
Um, yeah, I don't I don't havelike indicators of, you know, if
I have achieved this goal or no,it's just if something's in my
heart and it terrifies me, butit's where my curiosity is
(49:33):
leading me to, I say, all right,Rachel, gear up.
We're gonna do it.
It's gonna be terrifying, butwe're gonna do it still.
And when I can be on the otherside of it and say, I did it,
did it scared, did it terrified,like that's success for me.
SPEAKER_05 (49:49):
And it sounds very much like a big part of my
definition of success.
I just managed to take out If Ididn't take it out, it's just
what feels right with me.
It resonates that what I'mcalled to do, I'm committed to
it, it I do it, whether I feellike I am afraid, whether I'm
wounded or emotionallydistressed, whatever that looks
(50:12):
like does not change the factthat this is what to be done
now.
And if I can't do it now becausephysically I can't, I will rest
and I will be back in everybodyout of the party regardless,
right?
So I kind of I can see that.
I think that's why I always ask,what is success for you now?
Because I could talk to you a ma year from now, a month from
(50:34):
now, and it might feel a littlebit of a variation of the
definition that you have.
But it's always so wonderful tosee how we as humans define
success so differently.
And if we do define success sodifferently, that means our
focus can be different, eventhough we might be working on
the same thing.
It just to me it opens up spacefor us to be like, to we're not
(50:58):
I'm not gonna fight you on whatsuccess is for you, right?
But someone might be like, well,that's hogwash.
And I'm like, if you're fightingwith what someone does, right,
that's what you need to do yourwork.
And I just I just feel likewe're gonna have a whole lot of
show where we just bring all thedefinitions that our guests have
gone over because it's so it'sso powerful.
Here's the other thing that Ihave to ask you.
(51:21):
Let's talk a little bit aboutKilly and where it's at right
now.
Uh, I know that's not the onlything on your hand.
Where is it at right now?
And what what can we benefitfrom?
What do you want the world totake away about Killy Willie?
And how does it base in all thework and things you're doing
right now?
SPEAKER_02 (51:40):
Kellowilly, where is it at right now?
It is ever evolving.
I think, you know, such such thelife of an entrepreneur.
You're always evolving, alwaysshifting the business to, you
know, meet life, where you're atand everything else.
You know, it started reallyfocused on plantains and the
(52:00):
different service offerings,whether it was through the brick
and mortar, our e-commercebusiness.
And so now it's focused on thee-commerce business as well as
our wholesale partnerships witha couple of cafes here in New
York City.
But through the e-commerce,we're able to have nationwide
shipping for some of ourproducts.
And we do also, you know,catering events as well.
(52:20):
But I think when I talk aboutthe shift is really the
incorporation of the on thecontinent travel experiences
that has gotten me reallyexcited.
Um, to have the opportunity forpeople to come to um, you know,
our lodge in Mafia Island, whichI went for the first time and
(52:45):
had such an incredibleexperience.
I was just, again, some of thoseplaced in my heart around have
to figure out how to make thisavailable, you know, as an
offering of Killowilly.
And here we are now, and it's anoffering of Killowilly.
And it's just a really beautifulway, again, to continue and pull
(53:06):
that thread of how do you tellstories at the intersection of
culture, food, experience in away that's gonna be meaningful.
I think, you know, when people,you know, think about food
brands, it's it's not just aboutthe food, it's about the
experience.
What is the story?
What's the like richer contextthat you're offering?
And so that was always reallyimportant to me.
(53:27):
And so now to evolve a businessin this way is huge.
And we're planning on working onum, you know, a similar stay in
Ghana.
And that of course is superspecial to my heart because
being, you know, Ghanaian, it'show can I get back home and
share home with others as well.
And so that's on the roadmap fornext year, and we'll see.
(53:51):
I I treat it really like a hugeexperiment, you know.
I just you know, think aboutwhat's the curiosity, what's the
angle, what's the opportunity,and lead with that.
But that's where it's beentoday.
And um, yeah, I think to thepoint of how can people engage
with it or what is the message,it's really on cultural
(54:14):
connection.
You know, I started Kellerreally with the hope that I can
be West African, the next personfrom Latin America, the next
person from the Caribbean.
We all have a sharedunderstanding of plantains.
Sure, we prepare themdifferently.
We might even say the wordplantain differently.
Yeah.
We all know what we're talkingabout, you know.
SPEAKER_05 (54:34):
Come on now, love that it's ripe, half ripe.
SPEAKER_02 (54:38):
Right.
When it's weak, when it's green,what you know, and so that
becomes a point of culturalconnection.
And so at the end of the day,it's always about how can we be
in community with each other indifferent ways.
And so, yeah, that's that's thethrough line.
It's always community, it'salways connection and
(55:00):
engagement.
SPEAKER_05 (55:01):
All right, guys.
So if you're watching us,Rachel, Rachel's website is
rachelaurier.com.
All of it is in the description.
You can get a copy of her book.
We'll have the link directly touh her website where I can
purchase a copy of her book, andthen also we do have the website
for Kalawalaynyc.com where youcan learn more about travel and
(55:24):
all you can order.
I did see that yesterday whereyou can order some of the
delicious.
Go to her Instagram.
We have it also here in thedescription where you're
watching and listening to theepisode.
Delicious needs of food went toour Instagram.
So Rachel has to go, but shewill be back for another episode
with us, I'm pretty sure.
Rachel, thank you so much forbeing here.
(55:46):
You're just phenomenal humans.
Great spirit.
Thank you for reminding us thatwe don't have to run from
systems, we can reshape them forsomething greater.
SPEAKER_02 (55:54):
Yes, yes.
Thank you for having me.
This was the highlight of myweek, my day.
It's been a gift.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_05 (56:00):
Yes, guys, and we are going to Ghana.
We'll let you know you'll seesome adventures of us because
you all know how passionate I amabout the African continent and
the Africans in the diaspora.
So more to come from RachelLarway.
Keep in touch with her.
Until next time, keep masteringyour mindset.
Keep leave with now.
Thank you so much.
I know you have to be
Welcome to Mindset Mastery Moments, the best growth
mindset podcast, recognized bymillion podcasts and ranked as a
top mindset podcast by FeedSpot.
We're proud to be in the top 1%on listen notes.
Join Dr.
Alyssa White as we explorepowerful insights and strategies
(00:24):
to elevate your mindset.
Let's dive in.
SPEAKER_05 (00:27):
Hello, disruptors, and welcome back to another
phenomenal episode of MindsetMastery Moments.
Well, today we're going to flipthe lens.
What if capitalism isn'tsomething you escape?
Hmm, but something you reshapefor the collective good.
My yesterday brings WallSecrets, Ivy Lean Brilliance,
(00:50):
and Cultural Roots together tochallenge how we think about
wealth, ownership, and freedom.
She's proof that you can thriveinside the system without losing
yourself.
And I'm telling you, it's one ofthe things that keep me going.
She is sparking a conversationthat's urgent for our time.
I'm honored to welcome Dr.
(01:11):
Rachel Larley to my interestmoment.
Let me tell you a little bitmore about her before you hear
from her.
Dr.
Rachel Larry Larrier is aninvestment practice at JP Morgan
Asset and Wealth Management, aYale-trained PhD anthropologist
and the founder of Kinley Willy,a culture-found forward
(01:32):
lifestyle brand built aroundplantain.
Her story began in 2014 as abroke vegan undergrad at NYU.
She interned a Goldman Fast oncemultiple jobs, including a life
live-in nanny in New York.
She stretched her budget bycooking affordable plantain
(01:53):
dishes.
Now wait till we tell you whatyou can do with plantain.
Started as survival food turnedinto a movement, from plantain
brownies to ice skiing, tocookies, and even a plantain and
blespen burger.
Rachel turned her experimentsinto Kelewele, a brand launched
at a plantain party in 2018 thatraised just a few hundred
(02:15):
dollars, but grew to generateover$200,000 in gross revenue by
2021.
She secured partnerships withNew York, NYC's cafes, and even
test its own storefront inBrooklyn's decab market.
She built all of this whilepursuing dual PhDs at Yale and
working on Wall Street.
Today her story has beenfeatured in form, spotlighted by
(02:38):
Goody Sanchez and herforthcoming book, Black
Capitalist from Penguin RandomHouse, asked roll questions
about whether blackprofessionals can thrive within
capitalism without replicatingthe very system that once
oppressed us.
Listen, we are going to betalking today.
So scoot up your chair, get yourfavorite beverage, and listen,
(03:01):
share this with someone so thatyou guys can talk about it
after.
Welcome to Mindset MasteryMoments again.
Tell us who you are in your ownwords, what you do, and exactly
(03:23):
why you are.
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
Yeah, thank you so much, Dr.
White, for having me.
It's such an honor and aprivilege to be here and be in
conversation with you.
I mean a little bit about me.
I think everything that I'vebeen interested in, everything
that you mentioned in terms ofthe work that I've done has
always been at the nexus ofrace, social good, and ethical
(03:45):
entrepreneurship.
I'm someone who's always reallybeen interested in race and
money.
And I think the stories thatI've told about that in
different mediums really shareinsights about that kind of
critical relationship betweenrace and money.
And today, you know, I do a fewthings.
I work at JP Morgan Chase, wherecurrently I'm a wealth
(04:06):
management researcher.
My past role at the firm was aninvestment strategy.
I continue to run Killy Willieas well.
Also just, you know, publishedmy book, With You Spoke To,
Black Capitalist, A Blueprintfor What is Possible.
And then that work is reallyspecial to me because I think it
really crystallizes so many ofmy experiences across academia,
(04:29):
nonprofit, for-profit,entrepreneurship to really tell
a story about how do we navigatethis crazy thing, this crazy
system called capitalism in away that's going to be in
service of us, really with anethos of black consciousness and
really with an eye towardseconomic liberation as well.
(04:53):
And so I'm just excited to behere and to share that message.
SPEAKER_05 (04:56):
I'm excited and then so happy to hear that you wrote
the book.
I mean, there've been, ofcourse, a lot of individuals
right somewhere in this subjectarea.
What's unique, and I haven'tread all of them, I read just a
couple.
And I'm still getting my my feetinto navigating capitalism.
But I feel like the premise thatyou are writing from resonates
(05:21):
very deeply with me.
I first of all, you're firstgeneration American.
We talked about this off camera.
I am uh I legally immigrated aUSA half of my life ago.
And so I've spent the same timeliving in Gayana, South America
and living in the USA.
And I am built on covering thecapitalism, what capitalism is
(05:43):
and how it affects us.
And I seem to be just uncoveringit so much over time.
The one thing though, animmigrant as a woman of color
living in the United States, Ihave never um subscribed to that
I am less than or that successis something that I won't have
(06:05):
because of the color of my skin.
However, I am I think I was alsoliving in a world where I did
not see quote unquote color.
I did not under I know color andracism and prejudices exist, and
I just like to say prejudicesbecause racism is one of a
prejudice, right?
There's also the fact of being awoman, being an immigrant, and
(06:27):
all this stuff.
Um we're not gonna we're notgoing over on politics and all
that.
We're just going on what myexperience is here, guys.
So don't shut us down.
I'm building up something herethat Rachel is gonna help us
address.
Um what I'm learning though isthere's all kinds of mindsets
that we can have through acapitalist society.
(06:49):
And one that you are speakingand encouraging us to is one
that I firmly believe in isdon't let it stop you from being
and doing what you've put onthis earth to do and be and
have.
And that's what I am gettingfrom your work, from what you've
written and what you stand for.
(07:10):
If you don't mind commenting onthat as deep or as high or
wherever you want to go, you'reyou're you know how to handle
yourself and and you're welcometo speak freely here at Mindset
Master Moments to educate ourlisteners and viewers.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
And I think what's reallyimportant to also comment on is
you were kind of sharing yourown experiences immigrating to
this country and naturalizingand even kind of the mindset
that you had around not feelingthat you were precluded from any
opportunity, right?
I think that's so importantbecause I think for a lot of I'm
(07:49):
a first generation American.
And so growing up in a householdof Ghanaian immigrants, it was a
similar ethos around if you putin the effort, if you focus on
your education, specificallythat was, you know, my mother's
mantra, you can achieve.
And so the mindset, I think,from that kind of immigrant lens
(08:12):
adds a level of nuance that Ican't say is something that is
shared when you're talking abouta global black community.
The context is different, thecontext is different in the
sense of we can have a sharedkind of mindset and how we
relate to capitalism or relateto institutions or structures,
(08:34):
but say a black Americanperspective of a person who
might have a longstandingintergenerational legacy in the
US can be a very differentcontext for how they might
relate to institutions, relateto capitalism, relate to
themselves, and what they mightbelieve is possible for them,
because that context of race isvery different than what it was
(08:57):
for me, for example.
And so I think it's reallyimportant to name in the context
of recognizing, even still, thatdespite the nuances within the
black community intra-racially,there is still the same hopes
and desires and motivations whenwe're talking about how can I
(09:18):
make sure that I have financialsecurity?
How can I make sure that my, youknow, my dreams and motivations
are fulfilled in the long term.
We all want that for ourselves.
And so it then becomes about howdo we do it together?
Because I think what capitalismdoes exceptionally well is it
breeds a nature and a behavioraround individualism.
(09:42):
It makes us believe that thereare not enough resources for all
of us to win.
It makes us believe that inorder for me to be successful,
someone else has to be defeated.
And it breeds this kind ofscarcity mindset.
Yeah.
And so ultimately, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And so the opportunity for us isreally to notice what's going on
(10:03):
in that kind of systemic cultureand say, we're gonna do
something different and we'regonna respond to it differently
in service of the collective usrather than in service of the
individual.
And this is really around thekind of black consciousness
piece that I think is socritical because it's not about
saying that capitalism is good.
(10:25):
We know and can point to allevidence of violence,
exploitation, and extractionthat is embedded in the
framework and the creation ofit, especially in a Western
context.
But it is about saying thesystem that we have in front of
us is a system that's stillgoing to allow us to have some
level of choice and agency if wework together in order to
(10:51):
achieve it.
Yeah.
And so that is where we have theplaying ground to really kind of
think through okay, how do we dothis thing?
How do we show up in the hereand now in a way that's gonna
allow us to exercise our agencyin service of that kind of
economic liberation that we'relooking for in a way where no
one gets left behind in this?
(11:12):
Right, right.
And so that's that's really thechallenge.
That's the call to action.
Of course, there's challenges,there's nuances, but that really
should be the North Star whenwe're talking about how do we
engage in capitalism today as wemove in service of something
that's a little bit moreequitable for all of us at the
end of the day.
SPEAKER_05 (11:31):
Yes, I absolutely love that.
I concur with that.
One of the things when wecreated or everything about what
I do with mindset, mindsetmaster moment, mindset master
260, everyone knows mindset,mindset, mindset is what I talk
about.
Because when it comes toeverything that's presented to
(11:51):
us as humans, to humanity, I ofcourse because I am a black
woman, a black person, that'swhere my lens is always gonna be
my area, and that's the thepeople who I'm gonna relate to
most on the planet, our journey.
And so I believe that mindset isthe key to our success.
(12:11):
It's the key to socio in thebottom, it's in the foundation
of socioeconomic developmentthroughout Western civilization,
on the African continent, thediaspora, wherever we go, it's
going to be how we think andsee.
And so that's why I'm sopassionate about teaching how to
mainly to attack the scarcitymindset, because scarcity
(12:36):
mindset is so sneaky.
It is one of the most sneakythings for adverse ways of
thinking that sneaks up on us inall areas of our life, from what
we drive to what we wear, whatwe eat, when we eat, who we
spend time with, how we interactand communicate, collaborate or
not collaborate with people isbeneath that simple word of
(12:59):
scarcity.
So it's what we're gonna tacklea lot here.
And Rachel has written thisawesome book.
I'm gonna tell you from now, ifyou're listening to this, get a
copy of it.
See, again, my guests do notcome here asking me to promote
things, but if they're on thisplatform, it's because their
message resonates with not justour podcast.
(13:20):
It's not good for ratings anddownloads, it's actually what I
believe in.
And when I say it, you're gonnawant to get a copy of this book
and connect with what shestarted.
Rachel, let's dive in a littledeeper.
You have lived two worlds, as weshared earlier.
People rarely cross Wall Streetand anthropology is a little bit
of a like this girl is a BA, andat the same time, you are
(13:42):
building a cultural blend withPlantins at the center.
Well, when we go anywhere else,tell us when you look at that
journey, what's that summonthread that ties it all
together?
Because a lot of things saymaybe make sense, and it's this
is how we are I call usunicorns.
Um, this is how unicorns areborn.
Tell us how you did it and howwhat brought it all together for
(14:05):
you.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
Yeah, you know, it's a funny thing because I've
always just let my curiositylead me at the end of the day.
And I'll be right now.
Um because I remember my firstjob out of college was at
Goldman Sachs.
(14:26):
And you know, by any estimation,people are like, You got a job
at Goldman, you're doing it.
And I was like, you know what?
I actually think I'm gonna quitmy job to go do this dual PhD in
anthropology and black studiesat Yale.
People are like, what are yougonna do with that?
Why would you even make thatdecision?
And that's just one example, butthere have been so many times in
(14:47):
my life where people are like,What are you gonna do with that?
We don't understand it.
I was like, you don't have tounderstand it.
I just know that my curiosity isleading me to do this thing.
And I think for me, some of theconceptual like kernels in my
life have always been situatedaround what might it mean to be
black and wealthy.
(15:08):
Because growing up inpredominantly white community
that I did, not on account of myfamily's financial circumstance.
My mom, she won a housinglottery through an affordable
housing program that allowed usto live in the community that we
did.
And it was the case that everyrepresentation of wealth that I
(15:28):
saw was associated withwhiteness.
And for me, growing up as ayoung black girl, being in these
spaces, but certainly not ofthem, and occupying the kind of
marginal spaces of thecommunities that I was in, I was
wondering what are thedepictions of black wealth and
where are they and how can Irelate to them?
And so those were the initialquestions that guided my
(15:51):
curiosity that led me to makedecisions that were nonsensical
to others, but it made perfectsense to me.
I think for that first role atGoldman, I didn't know anything
about high finance, but I gotrecruited and it was actually my
older brother who had advisedme.
He was like, just check it out,see what they have to say.
(16:12):
It was an internship prior toyou know going full-time there.
He's like, just see what youknow that opportunity is like.
And it was the first time that Iwas able to really get exposure
to black sociality in thiscontext.
And it ruptured so much of whatI had learned in undergrad
(16:34):
around, again, preconceivednotions on how black people can
or should relate to capitalism.
And we're talking about GoldmanSachs, you know, a leader within
the Wall Street community, andpeople would say that's the
belly of the beast.
Right.
Capitalism.
So here I was dealing with thesellout narrative, quote
(16:58):
unquote, around like, oh, you'redeciding to go here and work
here, but I was like, it's somuch more nuanced and
complicated than that.
Than that.
So we can't resign ourselves tothese reductions of what it
means to show up in certainspaces and you know, leverage
the resources in those spaces inorder to create tangible,
(17:21):
productive outcomes foryourselves and for your
community.
And I saw people doing that forthe first time, and I was like,
oh my goodness, I have to writeabout this, I have to study this
because it was missing in thediscourse that I saw when I was
in undergrad.
And I was like, surely, youknow, I can go to grad school
and really kind of tease thisout because we need to see and
(17:44):
understand this message moreclearly.
So I thought, you know,anthropology was the best way to
do that.
In undergrad, my favoriteprofessors were anthropologists.
And funny enough, though theywere my favorite professors, I
never actually took an anthro101 class.
I just happened to be trained byanthropologists.
So I was like, oh, I need to geta PhD in anthropology because I
(18:05):
love what they're doing, so Ineed to do that.
And that was a very interestingexperience because anthropology
gave me the methodology aroundhow do you interview, how do you
really extract these kind oforal histories, learn from
people, do participantobservation, really put yourself
(18:27):
in the context to understanddeeply the systems, the
phenomenon that you're trying tostudy, and ask the question why
and how to really drill downinto the individual level that
speaks to people's beliefs, toyour point around mindsets and
their behaviors that are abyproduct of those beliefs.
(18:48):
And so that gave me the kind ofmethod, and I paired it with
black studies because my mypassion, my heart is for our
people, and I needed to bereally rooted in a black
consciousness to then leverageand deploy the methodology to
tell the story that was going tobe in service of us.
And so, but part of the curiocurious thing was that you know,
(19:12):
I went to the African AmericanStudies Department at Yale, and
here I come saying, Hey, I wantto tell this story because I've
got this evidence, on-the-groundevidence of how people are using
the tools of this system in newand really profound ways that I
think are really service of us.
(19:33):
And people are looking at mescratching their head, they're
like, don't know about that.
You know, we don't know aboutyou know, capitalism working for
black people.
We don't know about how you canthink about these tools
differently because that iscounter to everything that we've
discussed, everything that we'vefought against.
(19:54):
Right, you know, and so for meit was like I can stand
definitively 10 toes down onthis because I didn't make it
up.
You know, Andy gave me themethod and the evidence of point
to all these people's lives,point to how people are doing
this every single day, and finda sense and point to the fact
(20:15):
that you know we live lives thatare complicated and
contradictory.
America's a contradiction.
It's life, liberty, happiness,you know, but at the same time,
yeah, life, liberty, these arethings that are not guaranteed
to people.
And yet we persist, and yetpeople still pursue this
(20:39):
American dream.
Yeah.
So when it comes to engagementswith capitalism and how we can
operate in systems that, yeah,they might not be designed for
us, but we still persist.
And in community, we still findways to make it and you know,
activate our dreams.
And so that for me was thecritical space that I wanted to
(20:59):
work in and pursue this work,despite, you know, kind of
counter thoughts.
Um, and you know, doing thatstudy at the same time for me
personally.
I always loved plantains.
I'm a fellow plantain lover,yeah, such as yourself.
And I felt like this was thebest time to start a business.
SPEAKER_04 (21:20):
Well, I'm in the throes of grad school is like
this is a time, and I thoughtthat's the craziest time to who
starts a business in the middleof grad school.
SPEAKER_02 (21:31):
Right?
But I thought it really from astrategic standpoint because I
was like Yale, place that isvery well resourced, and they do
not just care about me as astudent, but they care about me
as an entrepreneur as well.
Yeah, and so I am going to usethese six years that I have with
(21:52):
almost unlimited resources at mydisposal to make the most of it,
you know, and so I was at theentrepreneurial center, I was
talking to all of the advisors,I was getting all the grants
because I was like, this time isso crucial.
And so I'm going to make themost of it.
And so I think just having avery strategic framework was
(22:14):
also intentional for me to makethe most out of any seat that I
found myself in.
Um, and so that was huge.
That was huge, and that's whatled me to start Killowilly
really focused on culturalfamiliarity, but also doing
something that was innovativeand unique.
Cause I think for me, I, youknow, transitioned into a pre
(22:35):
primarily a plant-based dietwhen I was an undergrad.
You know, plantains came to thefore for me because I was like,
wow, you know, they'remeat-free, they're meat
substitute, they're dairysubstitute.
So I was making all these dishesand I'd like to.
SPEAKER_03 (22:49):
I did not even know that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:51):
Yeah.
And I'd go to the grocery storeand I'd go to the vegan aisle
and I'd see nothing wasresonating with me culturally.
I was seeing like beyond me,impossible, and all these other
things, and they're all well andgood, but I wasn't seeing
anything that reminded me ofgrowing up in my mom's home
(23:11):
making me Ghanaian food.
I didn't see that, you know.
And so I needed to see somethingthat reflected me.
And so that was really why Istarted Killowilly.
And, you know, it's existed inso many different ways now.
We just recently this year addeda hospitality element to it.
And so we offered travel staysactually on a beach lodge in
(23:32):
Mafia Island that I was able toacquire this year, and it's
beautiful, and it's a way toreally get people back to the
continent to get everything, Ibelieve, has to be situated in
roots, it has to get back to thesource of whatever the thing is.
And so that's been a great wayto just bring the business back
(23:55):
home on the continent.
And, you know, I think anytimeyou're talking about food, it
conjures up memory, belonging,identity.
And so it was really importantto create experiences that spoke
to that as well.
Um, yeah, and so that becamepart of the grad school journey.
And then towards the end of it,going back into finance, it was
really with this super nuancedand refined thinking about okay,
(24:21):
if I'm going to be now at JPMorgan Chase, be back in, you
know, the belly of the beast, ifyou will, it's really about what
is the role that I'm playingthat is in service of black
consciousness, that is inservice of community making, in
a way that's going to help, youknow, our people and move the
needle.
(24:41):
And so that's always front ofmind for me around how can I use
the seat that I'm in to make apositive difference when you're
talking about economicliberation.
Yeah.
And so that's been the throughline, the journey.
You know, for some people,they're now starting to get it,
which is funny because you know,when I first had that leap to
leave Goldman, they're like,What are you doing with this?
(25:03):
And now looking back, they'relike, Oh, we see what you're
doing.
We're seeing right.
SPEAKER_05 (25:06):
It takes a minute, it takes a good minute for
people to catch up.
I love the main point that yousaid.
You said, I first of all, youlead with curiosity.
I believe that's one of thebiggest things that you can do
with your life and your mindsetis we a lot of us have these
shoulders in you should be oryou're supposed to.
(25:27):
And a lot of times when we'refunctioning under those
frameworks, it's not our own.
And that's kind of kind of justto get off course of your own
true North Star or off-purposeor your own why.
And that's what leads to a lotof the dissatisfaction that a
lot of folks find themselves in,whether it's later in life or
(25:47):
throughout life.
And so that's one thing I wantto point out to our listeners
and viewers.
The other thing is, you know, itsounds really wild to uh put
yourself in the belly of thebeast to be doing starting a
business while you're in gradschool.
This all this stuff about whatyou said is so phenomenal.
Everything that you said was andhearing that how can I mindset,
(26:10):
right?
What can I do while I'm here?
And if I can point out, a lot oftimes Americans have asked, will
ask me, well, Elisa, what is whyis it that you know, an
immigrant, why are immigrantscomfortable just coming over
here and letting these peoplepay you whatever?
(26:32):
Or letting them treat you andtalk to you however.
One of the things that comeswith being an immigrant is we
know dollar for dollar, dollaris a dollar wherever you go, but
at the same time, wheneveryou're in the US, a dollar
translates to so many dollarsfrom wherever we come from,
right?
And so we do the math and weknow that over wherever we are,
(26:56):
there aren't as many jobs.
So whether we're wiping thefloor, clean tables at
McDonald's or cleaning schoolsat the end of the day and
picking up, you know, stuff offthe floor that no one wants to
touch or smell.
We know that that if they'regiving us minimum wage, if it's
$7 an hour, it's equal to somany thousands of dollars where
(27:18):
we come from.
And then we're going to be ableto live in a very small home, a
low-income home, or share homewith multiple family members,
different generations thatcreates a support system for
kids to be able to drop off theschool, get meals, be safe,
still be in the village and inthe community that we're so used
(27:39):
to.
And then we're going to help paythe bills together, which cuts
it by so much, and then we'regoing to pool our money together
to buy another home and build ahome or establish a business for
family members that is inanother country.
And I can go on and on with thestory, but it's all we're
thinking as immigrants is howcan I get ahead?
And it's how can we worktogether so we can get ahead.
(28:03):
When when Rachel got on here,she started talking about
instead of we already havecapitalism, we're not gonna move
it out at all.
It's working around it.
So, Rachel, here's one thing Ilove that you said I had to
share that story because a lotof people asked me that
question, and I wanted to givepeople through my perspective,
(28:23):
again, I'm not speaking for allimmigrants, what generally, even
from speaking to so manyimmigrants, what our market is
and how we approach coming intothe USA, not understanding
capitalism at all, butapproaching life as a village.
And we and I'm telling you, I'velooked across Dominican,
Mexican, you know, all theimmigrants, different from
(28:46):
different places from Africa.
What I just described is athread that we use through our
cultures.
A lot of living in the USA isthe reason why you would see uh
uh one of us driving um acatalog, but we went and bought
it from a buy here, pay hereplace.
We probably cash for way lessthan what it it's worth.
(29:07):
It looks really nice and shiny,but we all can fit in there.
And so we we're we we might looklike we just got the nicest car,
but we bought it because it canfit everybody in there and it's
reliable.
So just understand.
So this is what Rachel says.
She says that you you really itreally, really just stopped me
(29:27):
in the trap.
And that's what correlated withwhat I just said.
Capitalism isn't something toescape, it is something to
reshape.
It sounds radical because itmakes us uncomfortable.
Like, how the heck do we reshapecapitalism?
What does it actually mean inpractice when you talked about
it, Rachel?
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
Yeah, great question.
It really means firstunderstanding how capitalism
works, understanding what it isand what are its primary
outputs.
So I think as I Spoken to peopleeven in the development of this
book.
Um, people have wildly differentdefinitions of capitalism, and
(30:07):
some of those definitions aremore emotionally led than
definitionally led, right?
And it could be, oh, it's theroot of all evil, or it's this
thing designed to keep us down.
Um but capitalism is really aneconomic system that prioritizes
and focuses on private ownershipand profitability in excess.
That's what it's really about: private ownership and (30:31):
undefined
profitability.
And so for me, I think it'simportant to understand how it
drives at those two things,ownership and profitability,
through some of the things thatwe talked about before.
That notion of individualism,that notion of scarcity mindset,
(30:51):
competition, exploitation,because it's if I can exploit
and extract someone's labor,then I can sell the byproduct of
that labor in excess as thecapitalist to make excess
profit, right?
Um, and so those become like thecore tenets of capitalism and
(31:12):
understanding how it functionsin that way.
Then it's okay, I've got theunderstanding.
How do I then relate to it?
Because again, I think, and thisis where it gets nuanced.
It's not to say that the idea ofowning things is bad.
People have entrepreneurialdreams, people have dreams to
own a home, own a business,whatever it is.
(31:33):
And people also have dreams tobe profitable, to have more
discretionary income or passiveincome that exceeds the money
that you need to live yourday-to-day life.
Okay.
But then it's how do I strivefor these things in a way that
doesn't reproduce the harms ofcapitalism?
(31:54):
How can I strive towards beingan owner, having more
discretionary income in a waythat's not going to be
exploitative or extractive,violent, or harmful?
And so then the question reallybecomes if you think about
capitalism through a communalmindset, a mindset focused on
collective social good, on akind of black consciousness,
(32:16):
what changes in your beliefs andthen subsequently your
behaviors?
And I think there's so manyexamples of how this starts to
show up.
So for example, and people willsay, Well, I'm not an
entrepreneur.
And a lot of people, especiallywithin the black community,
historically we've beenconsumers because we haven't
(32:36):
historically owned that much inan American context, especially.
And so some might say, Oh, well,there's limited agency within
that.
And I would say, actually,you've got a lot of agency when
you're operating and thinking incommunity, because we oftentimes
feel most agentic when we'revoting.
And that's something thathappens on a not so regular
(32:58):
basis, even though it'spredictable.
But I would say we actually voteevery single day, multiple times
a day with our start to thinkabout collective economic power,
how it then leads to politicalpower, it demands you be in
community with people.
When you think about, yeah, Imight feel like my greatest
(33:21):
contribution to capitalism or mygreatest relationship to
capitalism is through a consumerlens.
But when I start to think aboutthat in relation to other people
too, think about, hey, do wehave shared objectives about how
we want our community to looklike?
Then we start thinking aboutthose organizing principles
about where are we going tospend our money?
(33:42):
How are we going to pool ourmoney together in a way that
allows us to have more capitalcollectively than we otherwise
would have had individually?
What decisions do we then get tohave available to us?
What options open up when westart thinking and moving in
that way?
That's an incredibly powerfulposition to be in.
But it requires and demands yoube in community.
(34:04):
I think another example, youknow, for folks who might be
corporate professionals, theywork in different institutions
like myself.
And again, you might think I'min this big institution, I don't
really have agency in thiscontext, system wasn't designed
for me, built for me.
What is the what is the agencyin that?
And I would say there's actuallya really powerful pragmatic
(34:25):
theory about how we can thinkabout institutions and our
relationship to them.
And it's called theundercommons.
I got that theory from scholarsFred Moten and Stefano Harney,
and they talk about theundercommons in the context of
academic institutions, but Iwould argue that you can
transpose them to other ones.
And they say that you can'taccept the fact that
(34:48):
institutions are a place ofenlightenment.
You know, you can't be naiveenough to believe that,
especially if they havestructural biases.
But you can't ignore the factthat institutions can be places
that have significant resourcesthat you can benefit from.
So for example, let's put thisin the context.
(35:09):
I work on Wall Street.
I'm not going to be naive enoughto say, oh, Wall Street is for
me, black women, as we areseeing unemployment rates
skyrocket amongst black women incorporate America.
I'm not going to sit here andsay that it's for us.
I'm not going to be naive enoughto do that.
But I am going to say that thereare resources, well, the ones of
(35:32):
us who are in corporate America,you know, that we can tap into.
How do you do this?
Again, community.
And so they make the case forhow you can build an
under-common space.
It's a space wherebyprofessionals come together,
they recognize that, okay, we'rein this space.
These spaces are not perfect,but how can we work together,
(35:53):
pool the resources that we allhave as being part of this
space, and really think aboutthe different forms of capital
we have available to us?
And I'm not just talkingmonetary capital, but what's our
social capital?
SPEAKER_05 (36:07):
Human resource capital.
What class do we have access to?
SPEAKER_02 (36:11):
All of that, right?
And cultural capital.
And how can we just createpipelines of access for that
under common space, that kind ofsub-community within the bigger
institutional body to give usaccess to realizing the dreams
or goals that we have.
And so even at JP Morgan Chase,there's an organization called
(36:33):
the African Alliance that I'm apart of.
And that brings togetherhundreds of people on a monthly
basis.
And we collect ourselves onZoom.
We sometimes do in-personactivations.
It becomes a safe space.
Right?
Right.
People connect, they learn, wejust have real talk.
(36:53):
I even found my current jobthrough connecting with a woman
in the undercommons who referredme for the seat that I'm in now.
So these are just examples ofhow you do it.
And I think even from anentrepreneurial lens, you know,
being someone who's in a reallypowerful position to create the
(37:15):
culture of a business.
Come on now.
You have to be asking yourselfthe question of how do I do
this?
This thing of okay, I am anowner of something or private
owner of something.
I certainly want to beprofitable because again, the
bottom line is profitability forbusiness.
But that overlay of social good,what changes in your ethos and
(37:39):
your behavior as a businessowner when you're thinking that
way.
So at the cultural level, it'show do I create a culture for my
employees, for my team, wherethey feel valued for their
intrinsic value, not just fortheir output, you know, and
really making thatcollaborative.
And these are hard questions,you know.
I'm not saying any of this iseasy, but that's the standard
(38:02):
that we have rise to.
Um, and it's possible.
And I think that's thehopefulness of it, because there
are so many examples of howpeople do this in a way where
you can use the tools ofcapitalism, but create new
outputs within it.
SPEAKER_05 (38:18):
I love it.
I love it.
And technically, what Idescribed opening to leading
into the question that youprovided is if you listen
clearly when I talked about howas Emirates again generalizing,
we survived coming from our homecountries into a new world and
coming into a capitalistsociety, what are we aware of
(38:42):
what that is, even I was not.
You know, I had some insightcoming from school, but nothing
prepared me for what it lookedlike in reality in a in a more
developed country, in a thirdworld country, to haves and the
have nots.
And, you know, it's funny, Ipeople thought I was a have and
definitely were not.
But when I looked at how wesurvive it, we're technically on
(39:03):
to something.
And that's why I brought it upand described it because a lot
of us as Americans born andraised here who don't have an
immigrant bloodline or pattern,immigration pattern to the
United States question, how doyou all do it?
Like I went to college, I wentto Yale.
How is Rachel going to Yaledifferent from me going to Yale?
(39:26):
Well, there's a mindset that wasembedded into her without her
knowing it.
And that's why I think you'rethe best, one of, you know, one
of the best, if not the best, toteach on this reshaping of
capitalism for our benefit as apeak, black and brown people as
well.
So here's a question when itcomes to wealth power and
legacy.
What are some of those trapsthat a lot of us as ambitious
(39:49):
professionals often findourselves in when it comes to
building wealth in the systemthat wasn't designed for us?
I mean, this is the reality.
Again, like you said, you're notsaying these things are easy.
If you think it's hard, then itis.
If you think you can do it, thenyou can.
So just understand, we aretrying to open up your mindset.
(40:10):
Where are those?
What does it look like?
SPEAKER_02 (40:12):
Yeah, I would say that um it's such a powerful
question.
One thing that immediately comesto mind that I am super
passionate about now and eventrying to work on here at JP
Morty and Chase is how do weencourage and inspire people to
move from a savings mindset intoan investing one?
(40:35):
Because I think that there, youknow, there's so many dynamics
at play that make the idea ofinvesting very scary, I think,
for a lot of people, becausewhen you've worked so hard,
you've labored so hard for themoney that you've earned, the
fear of losing it, you know, canprevent you from investing it.
(40:58):
Yeah.
And I think just when it comesto even like at a technical
level, in order to maximize yourgrowth, maximize your wealth
potential, investing isnecessary.
And I think the upside of theworld that we're living in now
is that you know, knowledgearound financial literacy and
wellness is becoming more andmore democratized.
(41:19):
And so there's access anddifferent channels to learn
about how to invest.
But there's I think that leap offaith that still has to happen
around okay, I might be savingall of this money, but again,
you're missing out if you're notallowing yourself to actually be
invested in the market.
SPEAKER_05 (41:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (41:40):
And so that's I think a really crucial piece.
Um, yeah, honestly, you know,you talk about mindset, and
we're just I think so in locksup when it comes to this because
I'm so anchored on beliefs andhow that just makes a real, real
critical difference in how you Ithink show up in life, show up
(42:01):
when it comes to uh wealthintergeneral, right
intergenerational wealth andcreation cycle for yourself, for
your family.
And I think it's also aroundjust beliefs around what an
individual an individual feelsthat they are worthy of as well.
You know, and I think it's it'sa harder thing to ask oneself
(42:26):
the question of what can I do?
How can I show up?
What can I learn to make adifference?
It's so much harder to do thatthan it is to say capitalism
doesn't work for me, there's noopportunity.
And I would just challenge us todo the harder thing because I
think that especially when maybethe idea of homeownership or,
(42:47):
you know, when it's some ofthose critical indicators of
wealth, homeownership orbusiness ownership or some kind
of financial health, financialliteracy, you see within the
racial wealth gap how black,Hispanic, and Latino people fall
behind in comparison to theirwhite counterparts.
There is still opportunity, um,even if that doesn't feel
(43:09):
accessible, if again, we'reanchored in a kind of communal
mindset of how we can do ittogether.
Okay, because if it feelsindividually inaccessible,
surely it's possible at thecommunal level, but it really
has to be rooted in that inorder for it to be kind of
actualized.
And so, yeah, but it starts somuch with like opening the
(43:31):
paradigm and shifting it aroundwhat we think we are worthy of,
what's available to us, andwhat's the strategy to activate
it?
SPEAKER_05 (43:39):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (43:40):
Yeah, so those are just some thoughts that come to
mind around some of the maybehurdles to how we think about
wealth and how we access it aswell.
SPEAKER_05 (43:50):
Absolutely.
Wow, very well said.
I mean I mean, I concur with allof it.
In your book, Black CapitalistUm Rewriting, I want to make
sure I say it correctly, theblueprint of what's possible.
SPEAKER_02 (44:04):
A blueprint for what is possible.
SPEAKER_05 (44:07):
A blueprint for what is possible.
That's giving us solution, it'snot just commentary and
research.
You take head on blackcapitalists.
You in that book, you take onthe insight that you give.
You just went head on withbelieve is urgent for us and
right now.
Again, a lot of what I talkabout is always now.
(44:29):
The belief system, shifting thatpower line.
Tell us a little bit more ofwhat you hoped that your readers
would get in terms ofunderstanding the sense of
shifting their belief and takingthat sense of urgency to the
right now.
SPEAKER_02 (44:43):
Yeah, I think that we are living in an
unprecedented time.
I think we are living in timeswhere it's become very clear
that the Calvary is not coming.
It is up to us to create thepresent and future that we want.
SPEAKER_05 (45:01):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (45:02):
And so it's really about how do we do that?
And I think that for so long,especially within the black
community, we have been debatingthe issue of capitalism and
economics at the intersection ofrace for a long time.
And everybody's got their owneconomic identity.
Some people say I'm acapitalist, some people I'm a
(45:24):
socialist, some people I'm ananti-capitalist, whatever it is
that has been the core ofdebate, and so much of the
reason why we haven't been ableto align.
You know, and so for me, I thinkthe greatest hope, the greatest
call to action is unifiedaction.
Even the times that we are in,we cannot afford to keep
(45:47):
debating and arguing.
SPEAKER_03 (45:49):
Come on now.
SPEAKER_02 (45:50):
We have to put that aside and say, what is the
strategy?
Because again, as we weretalking about earlier, we've all
got the same general hopes,dreams, and wants.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we need to do an assessmentof what is the landscape?
What are the tools available tous?
How are we going to actionagainst the unified objectives
(46:12):
that we've collectively agreedare in service of all of us and
those things that wecollectively want together?
Then how what's the playbook?
How do we activate that?
That's the conversation I thinkwe need to be having rather than
capitalism is good, bad, orwhatever, you know?
And so I think that's that's thehope to get us to movement
(46:34):
collectively.
SPEAKER_05 (46:35):
Yes.
Oh, I love it.
Man, time goes by so quickly onyour we have not even uncovered
some of the tenants.
And so I would love to have youback and a couple.
So I'm gonna be reading the booktoo, which will help us really
dive in a little bit more.
But on the show, Rachel alsodoes a segment that's called
(46:58):
Flip the Script.
It's where our guest shares amoment where you have to
completely shift your ownmindset.
And of course, I feel likeyou've shared one with us and
how I changed the trajectory ofyour life.
SPEAKER_02 (47:09):
Oof, goodness.
See, a time where I flip thescript.
Yeah, I feel like I've lived afew lives at this point.
I'm I'm I am agreement withthat.
I'll tell you what, I probablyright now.
I think, you know, after thelaunch of the book, and it was
kind of it was funny because myagent, my literary agent, before
(47:29):
I published the book, she kindof foreshadowed, she was warning
me, she's like, you know, you'regonna have to fight if you're
gonna publish this book.
And I left it off.
I didn't really think too muchof it.
But now that it's published, andnow that I've seen the spectrum
of responses to it, I seeexactly why she said that to me.
You know, it has been really ashifting in my own self around
(47:56):
how can I show up for this in away that's going to, you know,
really just continue to servethe purpose that I know I've
been called to have when itcomes to this work and the
message that I think that is soimportant for us to anchor on
and move on.
And I am truly an introvert.
(48:18):
I'm someone who, you know, lovesto just be in my own space.
Um, and I feel most energized bythat.
But this has really called me toshow up, yeah, speak up, you
know, really be out there inways that have felt truly
uncomfortable.
You know, so I am playing withmy own kind of comfort zones and
(48:41):
extending them and stretchingthem and just really anchoring
on the why as I do that to giveme the energy, you know, and the
resilience to keep showing upfor that.
So yeah, I'm I'm in my own kindof personal journey of growth
that's requiring a lot more ofme than I in the past.
(49:01):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (49:03):
After all of this, Goldman, Yale, JP Morgan, Killy
Rele, how do you define successnow for yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (49:11):
Success, it's definitely doing the scary
thing.
Um, yeah, I don't I don't havelike indicators of, you know, if
I have achieved this goal or no,it's just if something's in my
heart and it terrifies me, butit's where my curiosity is
(49:33):
leading me to, I say, all right,Rachel, gear up.
We're gonna do it.
It's gonna be terrifying, butwe're gonna do it still.
And when I can be on the otherside of it and say, I did it,
did it scared, did it terrified,like that's success for me.
SPEAKER_05 (49:49):
And it sounds very much like a big part of my
definition of success.
I just managed to take out If Ididn't take it out, it's just
what feels right with me.
It resonates that what I'mcalled to do, I'm committed to
it, it I do it, whether I feellike I am afraid, whether I'm
wounded or emotionallydistressed, whatever that looks
(50:12):
like does not change the factthat this is what to be done
now.
And if I can't do it now becausephysically I can't, I will rest
and I will be back in everybodyout of the party regardless,
right?
So I kind of I can see that.
I think that's why I always ask,what is success for you now?
Because I could talk to you a ma year from now, a month from
(50:34):
now, and it might feel a littlebit of a variation of the
definition that you have.
But it's always so wonderful tosee how we as humans define
success so differently.
And if we do define success sodifferently, that means our
focus can be different, eventhough we might be working on
the same thing.
It just to me it opens up spacefor us to be like, to we're not
(50:58):
I'm not gonna fight you on whatsuccess is for you, right?
But someone might be like, well,that's hogwash.
And I'm like, if you're fightingwith what someone does, right,
that's what you need to do yourwork.
And I just I just feel likewe're gonna have a whole lot of
show where we just bring all thedefinitions that our guests have
gone over because it's so it'sso powerful.
Here's the other thing that Ihave to ask you.
(51:21):
Let's talk a little bit aboutKilly and where it's at right
now.
Uh, I know that's not the onlything on your hand.
Where is it at right now?
And what what can we benefitfrom?
What do you want the world totake away about Killy Willie?
And how does it base in all thework and things you're doing
right now?
SPEAKER_02 (51:40):
Kellowilly, where is it at right now?
It is ever evolving.
I think, you know, such such thelife of an entrepreneur.
You're always evolving, alwaysshifting the business to, you
know, meet life, where you're atand everything else.
You know, it started reallyfocused on plantains and the
(52:00):
different service offerings,whether it was through the brick
and mortar, our e-commercebusiness.
And so now it's focused on thee-commerce business as well as
our wholesale partnerships witha couple of cafes here in New
York City.
But through the e-commerce,we're able to have nationwide
shipping for some of ourproducts.
And we do also, you know,catering events as well.
(52:20):
But I think when I talk aboutthe shift is really the
incorporation of the on thecontinent travel experiences
that has gotten me reallyexcited.
Um, to have the opportunity forpeople to come to um, you know,
our lodge in Mafia Island, whichI went for the first time and
(52:45):
had such an incredibleexperience.
I was just, again, some of thoseplaced in my heart around have
to figure out how to make thisavailable, you know, as an
offering of Killowilly.
And here we are now, and it's anoffering of Killowilly.
And it's just a really beautifulway, again, to continue and pull
(53:06):
that thread of how do you tellstories at the intersection of
culture, food, experience in away that's gonna be meaningful.
I think, you know, when people,you know, think about food
brands, it's it's not just aboutthe food, it's about the
experience.
What is the story?
What's the like richer contextthat you're offering?
And so that was always reallyimportant to me.
(53:27):
And so now to evolve a businessin this way is huge.
And we're planning on working onum, you know, a similar stay in
Ghana.
And that of course is superspecial to my heart because
being, you know, Ghanaian, it'show can I get back home and
share home with others as well.
And so that's on the roadmap fornext year, and we'll see.
(53:51):
I I treat it really like a hugeexperiment, you know.
I just you know, think aboutwhat's the curiosity, what's the
angle, what's the opportunity,and lead with that.
But that's where it's beentoday.
And um, yeah, I think to thepoint of how can people engage
with it or what is the message,it's really on cultural
(54:14):
connection.
You know, I started Kellerreally with the hope that I can
be West African, the next personfrom Latin America, the next
person from the Caribbean.
We all have a sharedunderstanding of plantains.
Sure, we prepare themdifferently.
We might even say the wordplantain differently.
Yeah.
We all know what we're talkingabout, you know.
SPEAKER_05 (54:34):
Come on now, love that it's ripe, half ripe.
SPEAKER_02 (54:38):
Right.
When it's weak, when it's green,what you know, and so that
becomes a point of culturalconnection.
And so at the end of the day,it's always about how can we be
in community with each other indifferent ways.
And so, yeah, that's that's thethrough line.
It's always community, it'salways connection and
(55:00):
engagement.
SPEAKER_05 (55:01):
All right, guys.
So if you're watching us,Rachel, Rachel's website is
rachelaurier.com.
All of it is in the description.
You can get a copy of her book.
We'll have the link directly touh her website where I can
purchase a copy of her book, andthen also we do have the website
for Kalawalaynyc.com where youcan learn more about travel and
(55:24):
all you can order.
I did see that yesterday whereyou can order some of the
delicious.
Go to her Instagram.
We have it also here in thedescription where you're
watching and listening to theepisode.
Delicious needs of food went toour Instagram.
So Rachel has to go, but shewill be back for another episode
with us, I'm pretty sure.
Rachel, thank you so much forbeing here.
(55:46):
You're just phenomenal humans.
Great spirit.
Thank you for reminding us thatwe don't have to run from
systems, we can reshape them forsomething greater.
SPEAKER_02 (55:54):
Yes, yes.
Thank you for having me.
This was the highlight of myweek, my day.
It's been a gift.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_05 (56:00):
Yes, guys, and we are going to Ghana.
We'll let you know you'll seesome adventures of us because
you all know how passionate I amabout the African continent and
the Africans in the diaspora.
So more to come from RachelLarway.
Keep in touch with her.
Until next time, keep masteringyour mindset.
Keep leave with now.
Thank you so much.
I know you have to be
Host
Dr. Alisa Whyte
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