Ep 306: Jon Jones Retires. UFC Fight Night Recap. International Fight Week Preview including UFC 317

Episode 306: UFC Heavyweight Champ Jon Jones retires. We talk about his legacy.  UFC FIght Night Recap.  It's a big week for UFC with International Fight Week and UFC 317.  All the latest news. 









Hit up the show:

X (formerly Twitter): @MMAafterhours @RealMikeCarlyle @FranklMika @CagedMindsMMA

Email: [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
What's up everybody? Welcome back. It is MMA after Hours.
It's Michael Carlile, joined as always by Micah Franko. Micah,
how you doing, man?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Man, I'm coming off of another busy weekend. You had
Bare Knuckle Texas Nashville, three huge fights and one new
interim champion and some drama with a four man tournament
to bring up to tell you about Bare Knuckle when
we're able to get to that, of course, there was

(00:33):
LFA fund heck the PFL. We now know that Robotanov,
Alfie Davis are lightweight finals, Justin Wetzel, Marcy Alvez the
bat andweight finals, and Liz Carmouche versus Jenna Bishop the
women's flyweight finals. We also unfortunately saw that Kevin Lee

(00:54):
is never going to be the same again. So I'm
just like over here from a busy weekend from let's
get to Vegas.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Shit, you had to bring up Kevin Lee, didn't you?
Real quick? I want to touch on him. I feel
really bad for that dude. He's by no stretch old,
But as he said on social media, I'm not a coward.
At least I can say I tried. I shot for
the stars. My legs aren't what they used to be.
I can't absorb shots anymore, and honestly, I don't know

(01:24):
if it will come back. That's got to be a
tough spot to be. Is one thing. If you're old
and washed and your body's failing you, you can't do
what you used to do. But theoretically, Kevin Lee, age wise,
should still be in his prime. He's in a tough spot,
and like he said, I don't know that it's coming back,

(01:44):
that is getting any better. I feel bad for Kevin.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Lee mid thirties physically athletically and still run as fast,
lift as much as ever. Looks like a million bucks
when you put him up there on the scale. But
his ability to react in an offensive manner, his ability

(02:08):
to put together offense, to put together his wrestling, and
obviously he doesn't have his legs in him to be
able to weather taking big punches anymore from elite strikers
with four round gloves.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
It's just not the same.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
And it's an old adage, but people say, you never
know when your chin's gonna go, but when it's gone,
it's gone. And unfortunately for Kevin Lee, this looks like
a situation where it's gone, and it might be best
for him if he's able to move into a coaching
role or something, because I just don't know if he's

(02:46):
gonna be able to find the recipe to be a
title contender once again.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah you know. I mean, look, he's only thirty two
years old, but I mean, unfortunately for him at this point,
he made will be forty.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
To my knowledge, I can't really only think of Andrea
Orlowsky as a as a case study of someone that
we've seen get touched up look like they were that
Kinney description and then be able to power through it,
change their style and still become very effective in the sport.

(03:28):
I can't give you any more examples to my mind
of guys that we've seen that take abuse and they're
able to come back from it after they're not absorbing
it the same way. It is an unfortunate situation to
Kevin Lee. We saw him go out there, give it
his all, go for some big fights. I just think

(03:50):
it's time to possibly look at another career path in
this same field.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah for sure, for sure, all right, Micah, Before we
get into fight night, before we get into International Fight
Week in UFC three seventeen coming up this Saturday, and
all that the big news drops on Saturday, Dana White
delivers the news postfight press conference. John Jones has informed
the UFC he is retiring tom Aspinall, no more interim

(04:19):
beside that name. He is your UFC heavyweight champion. How
surprised were you surprised at the news? John Jones is
hanging it up, He's walking away. We're not getting Jones aspinall.
Presumably we're not getting John Jones back in the octagon
ever again, we can talk about that as well. But

(04:40):
how surprised were you at the news on Saturday?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
It was more just anti climatic. There was gonna be
two results, a Tom Aspinall fight announced or retirement announced,
and the saga had been long and drawn out to
I don't know if we can believe Dana White when
he said a couple of weeks ago, oh, John agreed

(05:05):
to the fight? Well do you mean did he say,
oh yeah, I'll fight tam Aspinall guys.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Or like was pen of paper? Did he agree to
the fight?

Speaker 2 (05:14):
And to be a fly on the wall to know
what happened between Hunter, John and Dana will give us
a lot more information to just say, kind of just
let the air out of the room, and you said, Eh,
John Jones, this kind of gets and.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
Capsules his whole career.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
We've had midnight strippings, You've seen headlights of headlines of
arrest and oh yeah, there's still more of those coming
in charges. This just kind of felt like platter for
the course, for the John Jones story, an unceremonious ending.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, I've got no reason not to believe Dana when
he says the fight was agreed to. Now, whether Penn
had been put to paper, I don't know. I've take
him at his word for that. I find that to
be very believable, because otherwise, at some point you have
to move along. And if there wasn't some sort of
at least verbal agreement in place, I got this other stuff,

(06:08):
but this that. But yes, we'll do the fight. I
think they probably would have moved on before. Now maybe
I'm wrong on that, but regardless the end result, John
tells them, and I'll paraphrase here, not interested in fighting anymore,
not feeling it, whatever, whatever. In hindsight, did UFC make

(06:29):
a mistake waiting this long thinking this fight was going
to come together? Whether or not you had a verbal
agreement whether or not Pinner been put to paper. And look,
it's easy to armchair quarterback when we know the outcome already.
But with the benefit of hindsight, should they have just
moved along months ago or do you think they did
the right thing waiting because this was the fight to make.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
This is the only fight to make. The UFC could
not move on from this fight. Dana White said something
a couple of weeks ago. He thought Georgia Saint Pierre
retired early. He thought habib Nor mccamm metov retired early.
He thought Daniel Kormier retired early.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
Of course the UFCITY.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Was going to think that John Jones was retiring early.
Look at the trends. Look at the traction that his
name gets when it attracts on social media. Look at
the ticket sales when John Jones is put.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
In a headliner.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Of course they're going to tell you he's walking away
too early.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
And I think that when you look at Surreal Gone Alexandro.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Volkov, there's no one clamoring for Tom Aspinall to be
defending his interim title. There's no one clamoring that Tom
has been wronged by being on the bench. Tom has
been wronged by John Jones, ducking him is the narrative.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
That is why the UFC.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Was right to wait as long as they did, until
it appears that John Jones waved the flag and said
it's over.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Guys, We're just not having these talks anymore. I'm retired.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yep. I think this is what you were saying. You
just said it a little differently, but the bottom line
is there wasn't another fight to make, even if fuck it,
we ain't waiting around John You're stripped. Well, okay, you
take John out of the picture, surreal Gohn moves from
number two to the number one contender Volkov. You mentioned Pavlovich,

(08:42):
Curtis Blades who got to win over the weekend Almeida.
You're right, nobody's flamoring for those fights, So I think
that kind of gave UFC if they needed an excuse
or if they needed a reason to wait, they had
this luxury. This is there's only one fight to make
in the Head Division, and we'll wait for it a while.

(09:03):
Because while yes, maybe it's not fair to Tom. Hell,
maybe it wasn't fair to make Tom wait for till
after the Jones Stipe fight that was still a fight
to make as well, but nobody else is clamoring to
see Aspinall. Volkoff Aspinall. Pavlovich. You know, so you had

(09:23):
that luxury, so I you know, I don't blame UFC
for waiting because there was only one fight to make.
In the end, for whatever reason, John decides he's not
interested and and that's cool and all that, but now
you do have to move on. Aspinall is your champion,
no more interim. I'm going to assume that sooner rather

(09:46):
than later we get a fight announcement for Aspinall. Maybe
not his fault, but I don't know how excited other
than Aspinall first real title defense, no more of this
interim shit. I don't know how excited we're gonna be
when that fight is announced. Aspinall versus Gone or Blades
or whomever it may wind up being.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
The fight this past weekend was very competitive. We'll get
to that ladder between Blades and an unranked Kuniyev.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's not great.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
And then Pavolch has not regained his magic.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
And Gone's last win.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Dana White thought Volkov got the win, but he still
took the loss.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
This is not.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Gonna be the illustrious moment that that Tom Aspinall was waiting.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
That's that's the unfortunate part about this.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
It's a it's an unceremonious end to John Jones's heavyweight
title run, and it's a very unceremonious beginning for Tom Aspinall,
where the fight that everybody wanted to see is now
still left behind, and it's not an alloring crop of

(11:05):
pay per view drawing names in front of him to
be Dan's partners. It's a very interesting time for the
UFC heavyweight division.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Let me ask you this, Aspinall. I don't want to
say clean out the division, but over the next year
and a half gets three wins, I think it's fair
in an eighteen month period he could fight three times.
Do we revisit Jones Aspinall at that point John maybe

(11:36):
gets the itch or Hey, all right, you've proved yourself.
I'll fight you now. I guess the better way to
ask this John Jones retires, is he done? Do you
think he changes his mind down the road? He is
thirty seven years old, he's about to turn thirty eight
in July. So while time may not be on his side,

(11:57):
dude still looks as good as he ever has the ring.
Do you think this is really it for Jones?

Speaker 2 (12:04):
My short answer would be yes, because I just in
the specified inclusive training environment that John Jones has been
a part of. I know a couple of the guys
have already moved to Colorado. I don't think that there's
much thought of keeping team bones around.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
So could John get the inchin a year year and
a half.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, But what I'm saying is we're talking about John
Jones sitting on his couch for a year and a half.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
John Jones, I don't believe is going to a gym.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
I don't think that he's gonna continue hitting pats.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
I think that.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Maybe you see him around the world doing some seminars
because he'll be making money.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
But I don't, I don't.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I don't think we're gonna see the same intensity and
fire from John Jones. I got a feeling that done
may be done with John Jones.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I tend to agree with you on that, Mica. So
operating on the assumption John is done, it is a career.
There's gonna be no changing of the mind. There's gonna
be no comebacks. In a couple of years. Is John
Jones the greatest of all time? Sixteen wins in USC
title fights, youngest UFC champion of all time, twenty fight

(13:20):
unbeaten streak, two division champion, twenty two career wins in
the UFC, that's tied for the fifth most of all time,
never been knocked down in his MMA career. I could
keep going and going and going. Is John Jones the
best UFC fighter of all time?

Speaker 2 (13:40):
There's a really really competitive argument to say it's a
three way tie between Silva, GSP.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
And Jones.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
I think because there's enough when you say stripped, arrested,
peed test some of those humanitarian clauses in there, there's
an holes in the pristine armor of John Jones to
give life to other guys in this conversation.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Does Silva get dinged for maybe sticking around too long
whereas maybe Kabebe gets a benefit of the doubt by
getting out while the gitting's good and hasn't come back,
And would John run that risk should he come back?

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Not to mention, we're gonna have the ducked aspinall aspinect
aspect of it, and you want to go the GSP argument, Well,
he had the Sarah loss. Guys, he did get a
really big gift two times in a row. Pondent and
Hendrix hugely the debatable decisions and then got out on

(14:46):
the division.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
Really Terry picked the Bisbee fight.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
And duck Robert Whittaker before he was supposed to defend
that title. So each guy is not impervious to fault
where it's hard to get past differentiating which one of
those three. But it's hard not to remember the dominance
of young John Jones as a light heavyweight champion as
GSP's second title reign, and the incredible debut introduction and

(15:16):
run through the title that Anderson Silva had were don't
forget everyone's still trying to catch him for wins and
some of it did most of that defending the damn
middleway title.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yep, let me ask you this, because, all right, if
we can agree John, if not the greatest, he's tied
for greatest. Does it feel like there was meat left
on the bone? And I don't mean that from a
retiring to soon standpoint, but you kind of alluded to
some of the outside the octagon issues, whether it was

(15:48):
Pico Grams, whether it was problems with the law as
great a career as John Jones has had, does it
feel like it should have been better? Could have been better?

Speaker 2 (16:02):
John Jones had this limitless potential. There was this alter
ego though, this bones character if you want to call him, so,
this alter ego that can't stop getting in trouble that
has ruined what was the generational talent. You could think
back to Nike Data, Rade wanting to be affiliated with

(16:26):
John Jones. These are major sponsors coming in. It was
a gateway to what would become the Rebok deal. John
Jones had a potential long before all MMA fighters to
really be affiliated with these massive brands, these nationally known entities,

(16:46):
and he messed it up. So you want to ask
if there was meat left on the bone. There was
potential for John Jones to be generationally different and to
have that Connor McGregor earning potential, but to have had
the squeaky clean reputation, and instead he became the worst
nightmare of what most CEOs that didn't want to get

(17:09):
involved with in the sport thought an MMA fighter is
nothing but trouble. So, yeah, there was meat left on
the bone. From a boardroom perspective of financial perspective, and
if a lot of those incidents don't happen, the Cormier fight,
the Anthony Rumbel Johnson fight, there's fights that we.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Get that happened a lot sooner, and.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
We test John Jones's greatness even more and possibly to
add to that legacy and the earning potential.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
So yeah, there were meat left on the bone.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
We're just thankful he did get most of the crucial
light heavyweight names he needed to fight on his resume.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
It's interesting because I think if this were anybody else,
the focus would be more on the what could have been,
what should have been? But when John Jones was in there,
he was so damn good, the focus is more on
place in his Is he the greatest? Is he tied
for the greatest? Is he's the second greatest of all time?

(18:04):
I feel like if we were talking about anybody else,
or the exact same resume, the exact same outside the
ocagon issues, it would be a what if what could
have been? So I mean, I guess in a weird way,
it's a credit to John and how damn good he
was that despite all the outside stuff, he still looked

(18:26):
upon as if not the greatest of all time, certainly
one of the greatest. But for me, I still have
a little bit of a hard time, and I don't
penalize him for it in terms of the goat talk,
but I still have a little bit of a hard
time not thinking about what could have been. Because as good,

(18:46):
look as great as he was, with the outside distractions
and everything else that went on, if you don't go
three years from July or excuse me, from February of
twenty twenty to March of twenty twenty three, if you
don't have the UFC two hundred fiasco, if you don't

(19:07):
have the Cormier the second win overturned to a no contest,
if you don't have the run ins with the law
that kept him out of the octagon at different points
in time for periods, how much better he could have been.
And when I to the point where when I throw
out the question is he the greatest or is he

(19:29):
one of there's there's no question at all. Fuck yes
he is. He destroyed everybody. As great as he was,
it feels like he could have been even better.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
His biggest enemy has always been himself, and the proof
is in the pudding. His lone loss on MMA twenty
eight and one twenty eight and one is it disqualification
because of illegal elbows? Even though those are an l egal,
it's still John Jones got in his own way and

(20:05):
cost himself his only blemish in this sport. As John
Jones has continued to be the only cause of his
own blemishes in life, I would definitely have to say
that we look at what he's done and he's the greatest.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
There's a god.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Given talent to watching John Jones perform. Where I've heard
stories people in the gym back in the day, John
Jones would leave the party to show up to sparring
in the morning, swix the mouthwash, beat up everybody in
the room. That is just natural lee. He is the greatest.

(20:47):
It doesn't compare to the hours of work that gsp
and Anders and Silva had to put in on this list.
John Jones could just get out of bed, walk into
and probably beat both of them up.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Will hung over.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
When you look back at John there's certain fighters He's
always going to be attached to for various reasons, but
at the top of the list when you think of
John Jones, even if maybe the fights weren't classics, that
they're not going to be inducted into the UFC Hall
of Fame, Cormier, that has to be the first thing

(21:26):
that pops up, right.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Sorry for me, it's Gustusen because you say the all
time John Jones, and I'm like the guy that pushed
him the hardest, the guy that we thought went at
him the hardest that the first fight went.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
I think it's going didn't go into the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yes, that Jones Gustison fight pops up to me. If
you say John Jones and his most dramatic rival, I
would have to say Cormier because the drama the build
up was bigger almost than the fights.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, and I would look, I agree with young Gustafson,
but they came back in the second fight and knocked
him out in the third round. Again, look, he was
also too and zero against Cormier, even though one was overturned.
But the jawing back and forth constantly the UFC two

(22:22):
hundred fight that didn't happen, that that gave us Cormier
laying on top of Anderson Silva for three rounds.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
Those are just camire.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, they just didn't like each other and that fed
into the rivalry. Even if the actual fights were, if
we're being honest, anti climactic.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Daniel Cormier looked lucky that he had forty year old
Anderson Silva was standing in front of him that night.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
I mean it was not an inspired for formance for
what was supposed to be. Maybe it was that big
of an emotional letdown, but that was not inspired for
a guy that was on camp up against the guy
that was around the arena at that time. So I
don't know, and it does, like you say, part of
jones greatness is the fact that even though those were

(23:11):
his two greatest rivals, he.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Dominated them both in the rematch.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
I know one's and no contest, but the rematches were
not with the original fights were no.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Look, I'm I cannot disagree with you on that, and
ultimately that's that's how you determine the victor and rivalries.
And yeah, those fights, they they were not closed. That
the unanimous decision that the one that was overturned was,
if I recall correctly, he knocked out Cormier. Cormier that

(23:43):
that was when Joe Rogan was never going to interview
someone after they had been knocked out and suffered a
concussion again and well, yeah, I mean, I'm sure he minute,
We just don't it, but it still happens. Yeah, it
was real quick, and we can move along because I've
always been fascinated by the Cormier and Jones dynamic.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Look.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Two different lifestyles, two different ways of going about life.
But if you put them both to a light detector test,
especially Cormier, I think the big difference is Cormier, like
most fighters, felt like he had to work for everything
and all that stuff. We just talked about John Jones
about how great he was, but how much better could

(24:25):
he have been? I mean, already arguably the greatest of
all time, but how much better could he have been
if he was working as hard as other And not
that he wasn't working hard when he was working, but
he also had the party lifestyle and all that. I
would bet almost anything if you put Cormier on a
light detector test and he had to answer truthfully, that

(24:46):
was the biggest reason for their beef. That and I
don't mean that in a bad way towards Cormier. I
get it. I'm sure a lot of fighters who aren't
particularly fond of John Jones kind of the same thing.
Everything comes so damn easy for him, and if he
worked as hard as I did, goddamn how good could
he be. I would bet that's probably at the root

(25:07):
of their feud, And obviously as that few develops and
you have fights and you have shit talking and all that,
but I bet the core of it is just that
Cormier felt like he had to work for everything, and
everything came so easy to John, to the point where
John arguably at times took that for granted.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
Shit. That's a good theory.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
I'd like to ask Cormier about it, because I have
no clue. I like the thought that the original interaction
was just that off putting that he thought John was
an asshole.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
I'm the Olympian and you said you're gonna take me down.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
And I could see maybe some of that progressing as
they got to know each other better and he started
asking around and you find out about John. I think
that Cormier thought he was an asshole kids just the
moment he met him, and John took offense to him,
thinking he was an asshole, and that's enough, you know,
they said the littlest thing would set off Michael Jordan.
I think both those guys got that killer in them

(26:02):
like that, and yeah, just a little. The shit sent
it down because there can only be one Alpha.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
With Jones's retirement, with Aspinall having the interim removed from
his name, he is now your heavyweight champion. We talked
a couple minutes ago Micah about the heavyweight division. If
you are a betting man, who do we see Aspinall
defend his heavyweight title against first?

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Aspinall against Gone in October in Las Vegas. If there
is any sort of way that they can change that
Paris fight night to a pay per view, heck, maybe
we do it there.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
But Gone Aspinall next heavyweight title fight.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
If you're UFC, do you feel like you have to
do Aspinall's first And I have no idea what the
schedule is, so maybe it's not even possible, but you
feel like you have to do it in England somewhere.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
The schedule would allow it.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
I just don't see them in the end of the
year going back overseas to the UK. Maybe there's a
fight night lined up, but we've already been tentatively told
October in Vegas, November in MSG, December is back in Vegas.

(27:15):
You're not getting through those three months without having as
Spinall fight.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I just I think
in a perfect world, to maximize Aspinall, especially against a
less than heavyweight division right now, you do that in
London somewhere if you can so somewhere in the UK.
But yeah, I'm not sure it lines up. And my

(27:41):
guess would be Aspinall's been ready to fight for a while,
so we're probably going to see that first title defense
sooner rather than later.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I hear you on making sense for the UK. Elliott
Suporia's last fight was not in Spain. We've had four
UFC champions from Africa, and yet this past weekend we
were in Baku, Azerbaijan that exactly houses one top fifteen lightweight.

(28:12):
So the geographical schedule doesn't always make sense.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Oh no, one hundred percent. I think this is a
little different in that you're trying to shine up a
less than division and Aspinall won't get a better reaction anywhere.
And I'm not saying he'd get a bad reaction in
Vegas or anything like that, but he'll get a crazy
reaction in the UK. That That's why I think in
a perfect world you absolutely do it there. It ain't

(28:38):
a perfect world. And unless you're going out of your
way to schedule an event in the UK, I don't
think it lines up calendar wise. And look, all that's fine.
I don't think it's going to ruin anything. If it's Vegas,
if it's you know, wherever, if it's New York, what
have you. That's why I brought that up. But yeah,

(28:58):
I'm with you. I don't I don't get lines up
so the sooner you can get aspenall in there against someone. God,
I hope it's not gone, but that makes the most sense.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
It's sometimes ain't a perfect world because in a perfect
world Khalil Rountree and Jamal Hill would not have went
all the way around the world to Baku to fight
in front of just as many people as they would
have at the Apex. And that's because the main event
went underway at two am local time after the local

(29:34):
star already won. So the arena done empty. Unfortunate for
Roundtree and Hill.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, and I guess that's a good segue UFC Fight
night this past week in Baku. You just mentioned that
main event Jamal Hill Khalil Roundtree, round Tree gets the
unanimous decision. I haven't seen that many people that disagreed
with it, except for one of the two competitors.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Jamal Hill. Don looked shocked. What was shocking to me?
And if you guys didn't know that, he thought he
was in the fight. Looked none further than his corner.
No favors done to Jamal Hill.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
When a head of the fourth round they said it's
a close fight, go out there and you gotta.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Win the round.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
My inentation was you need a win by knockout right now.
Your leg is getting chopped apart. It's not going well.
That wasn't the feeling from the Jamal Hill corner and
they did as a service then to their fighter who
was not able to get back into the fight. What

(30:45):
has happened to Jamal Hill is gonna be a great conversation,
but he actually is the one that started the leg
kicking game. Rountree gets to it, does it at a
much better effectiveness.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
See we're talking.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
About at a point, Hill was a head on leg
kick and the one limping because Roundtrees technique is that
damn smooth, a noticeable limp, labored movement and that's when
the overhands, the looping shots start to collect you get
knockdowns in the third I think there was a second one.

(31:17):
You come to get a third knockdown into the fourth round.
The jabbing to the body was beautiful, a complete domination
from Khalil Rowntree, who's taken his striking to another level.
And they were talking a lot on the broadcast, and
I gotta agree that a lot of this was the
same kind of thought process that Alex Berrera goes through.

(31:39):
I'm gonna disable your leg and then make you play
in front of me and then let my hands be takeover.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, a couple things. I think Jamal hills corner, like
you mentioned, did him a great disservice. There's no way
they thought he was winning this fight. They just couldn't have.
Even if you felt like maybe he wasn't down four
to ozh going into that fifth round, there's no way
you thought you were up on the scorecards. And if
they really did think that, Jamal Hill might need to

(32:07):
find a new team. But my guess is they didn't
think that. But they were telling him what he wanted
to hear when they probably should have told him what
he needed to hear, which is like you said, you
need to go out and get a knockout. As far
as Khalil Rowntree, Look, the guy's always been a good fighter,
don't get me wrong on that, but standing toe to

(32:29):
toe with Pahara, it almost feels like that gave him
a fresh breath of confidence that maybe he didn't know
he had, and it's kind of changed his approach.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
I could see that.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
It's reminiscent to me of how Carlos Condict came out
of the GSP fight. He looked on fire the next
two in his own and that's what Rountree did here,
the overhands, the way he was setting up, because you
got to dip for the overhand, so to set up
the dip, he was attacking the body with straits all night.
We're still not seeing that same athleticism.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Do you buy into any of.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
The thought that I had before where the Achilles injury
has diminished what was Jamal Hill's game?

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (33:17):
I don't think there's any doubt about that. And look,
that's certainly unfortunate. Yeah, yeah, I think that's definitely part
of it. Again, if he look maybe a lot of
this is Jamal Hills just trying to say face, but
if he really felt like he was up and this

(33:40):
was a great miscarriage of justice. Well, yes, I certainly
agree with you one hundred percent on the Achilles injury
and how that's changed him. I think he's got a
lot bigger problems as far as his fight career going
forward if he truly believed he was up and that
he got robbed.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
When you heard one judge gave it forty nine forty
six Hill before looking at the scorecards, because one judge
did have him around, what round did you think he won?
I thought it was going to.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
Be the first first. Yeah, So to see that a
judge gave.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Him the fifth round, it's arguable to say his team
thought they were forty eight forty seven, but it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Really. The part that's hard to get by is you
needed to tell your.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Man heading into that fifth he needs to win by knockout,
because there wasn't much thought that the second, third, and
fourth there was an argument for Jamal Hill to win,
especially getting knocked down two times.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
In the third.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, what do you think's next for Rowntree?

Speaker 3 (34:47):
It depends that. That's a really interesting question because.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Take a deep breath, and I gotta ask you this.
Shatam Aspinall's first heavyweight title defense behind Alex Perreira.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Uh. I think that's more exciting than anything you make
with a current heavyweight in the UFC heavyweight rankings. Does
Alex a certainly look like he was on that trajectory

(35:23):
ready to move to heavyweight? Has the loss against an
Caliev this, Nope, I'm coming back from my belt. That
seems like, from the outside looking in, that's been his focus.
Does he change that focus again and say, fuck all that,
keep the damn belt, Magamed, I'm going to heavyweight. I
don't think anybody would have a problem with it, But

(35:46):
I don't know that Alex does that. I almost think
he wants to reclaim the light heavyweight title and then say,
all right, boys, fight over it. I'm going to heavyweight.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
So well?

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Is the second part of that question? If Alex moves
up to heavy eight and is Aspinall's first opponent, does
that open up Rowntree to get the title shot against Ankliath?
Is that why you're asking me it?

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Basically my thought process would be this, If we're going
Ferrera an Kilajav rematch, I think that means we're setting
up Brown Tree Prochaska for a number one contenders.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Fight.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
If not one of the two of them is.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Fighting an KILIAV will Alex moves up and the other
one probably.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
Just sitting around and waiting for the winner. Because I
don't know what else to do with that division.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
I mean, there's only a couple guys I want to
see fight each other, and if we deduct Alex from
that equation, I don't really want to lose. I just
want those three to fight each other at this point,
Yeri Jamal and Maga mad Sorry, Yanblohovich, I'm not trying
to bring you back into the car conversation.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
I'm just not I would agree with you on that.
I don't know that Rackete gets back into that conversation either. Yeah,
that's you know what, that's interesting. I think again, perfect world.
You let aspinall get a win or two against the

(37:22):
rest of the heavyweight division. You get that Pereira ank
Eliav rematch, and then assuming Alex wins, he moves up
to heavyweight, and then all of a sudden, you've got
excitement in the heavyweight division. I don't know that you
you blow your shot right out of the gate on that.
Although it's very interesting and it wouldn't shock me I

(37:44):
really hadn't given that a lot of thought until you
brought it up, But I think that would change things.
So let's assume Alex is sticking around, he fights ankliav
Yuri and Rountree for I got next.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
That's what I believe is gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Does this performance overall raise your level of expectations that
the ceiling just raised for Clil Rowntree for what he's
capable of.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
I think it answered question. Look, he's thirty five. But
I think, and we talked about this last week as well,
are we seeing the Khalil that we had seen before
the Alex fight or did that fight change him? Does
he have newfound confidence? And look, this was his first

(38:36):
fight after that, so maybe I should pump the brakes
a little. All he's a changed man, newfound confidence. He
went out and got the win and that's what he needed.
But I think there were questions what were we going
to see? He answered those questions. So until proven otherwise,
I think we have to go with yeah, whether it's

(38:56):
just we look at him different, or whether it is
more confident, better fighter now, I do think the ceiling's
higher than I thought it was before the before the
Perira fight.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
For sure, he still got the power. He's a violent,
destructive man. I'm a little worried about his Nate Diaz
face that it's gonna fall off one day, because he's
quite bleeding easily these days after Pereira.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
But Rountree is.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
A handful and the confidence, the aura has hit a
new level, Like, uh, gotta ask you this one go
to Steve Harvey rowt top five answers on the board.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Did you freaking think that there was.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Any chance that ralphay Alpha Zeve would win the co
main event on the strength of his wrestling?

Speaker 3 (39:45):
I did not.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Steve very impressive, and look, we talked about, if I
recall correctly last week when we were previewing the card,
this might be it for Zive. You know, was the
the last fight shaking off the rust? It was short
notice all that, or is that what we get post injury.

(40:09):
I'm not surprised, he one. I'm a little surprised. It
was unanimous decision, and I'm certainly surprised, Like you said,
the strength of.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
The wrestling, the strength of the wrestling, getting the takedowns,
closing down those last two rounds.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Surprise that our very close first round. All three were
just like, yeah, you want it. I know the judges
weren't from Azerbaijan, but it felt like it. I thought
that round was a lot quoster.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
I don't know what to make of the upper bound
limits for Ralphie Alpha Zeve. I do feel like that
we can with confidence say he has less lingering effects
from his acl injury than Jamal Hale does from his
Achilles injury.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
That much, I feel is evident.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Nope, I'm one hundred percent with you on that. I
thought that was a really good win for if az Eve.
I'm curious what's next for him. Again, again, not shocking
that he won the manner he went about doing it. Yeah,
I did not see that coming at all.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Well, I know he called out Dan Hooker, which Dan
Hooker's hand. The last time I saw it, that thing
looked gnarly like it was stitched up, but it looked
like a shark bit out.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
I don't know what he's gonna do fight wise next.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
I would say the most logical matching we have Moye
Kano Daryusch this weekend. I think that someone in that
realm would play into the next physive matchup.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
I think You're probably right on that.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Look.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
I wouldn't hate on the Hooker fight. I think Hooker,
if he had his brothers, is looking up at the
rankings and not down. I think that would be really
fun fight. But my guess is Hooker would prefer to
fight someone of him in the rankings and not below him.
And if that's the case, if you want to tell

(42:05):
me the Daryushmykano winner, yeah, I'm here for that.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
We get to the feature fight where Curtis Blade survives
Rivan Kuniyev in a very close split decision that I'm
not up in arms with, but I'm a bit surprised
Blade got that third round.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
I'm does it? Does it feel like Curtis Blade's missed
out on a golden opportunity, again benefit of hindsight, but
with a convincing win, with the announcement afterwards that John
is retiring. Aspinall is your you know, interim tag re move,

(42:51):
He's your heavyweight champion. If you were looking at someone
other than Surreal Gone to be the first title challenger
for Aspinall, Curtis Blades could have made a strong argument
for that. Coming out of Saturday in a less than
stellar performance, I don't think he is making that. I
don't think anybody is making that argument at this point.

(43:12):
Did Curtis Blades miss out?

Speaker 2 (43:17):
It was not aesthetically pleasing aesthetically there was a lot
of damage done to Curtis blades right eye, and he
even sat after the fight he.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Felt something in his knee as mc alpop.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Injury, bad performance, A lot to build on for Curtis Blades,
but nothing that builds him forward from here. This is
the uh unfortunateness of the heavyweight division where dare I
say Hamdi abdu Wad versus Mohammed Usman might have been

(43:51):
a bit more dramatic and excited, where abdu Wad came
out on fire, got hit in the face, and then
we saw Mohammed Usman dig down deeper than he ever
has to get that victory.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Credit to Kamaru's little brother, the Usman family. Back to
back weekends on a roll for sure?

Speaker 1 (44:08):
For sure, I don't I don't even know if you
can answer this, But as far as assuming Blades isn't
out for a long time, injury or anything like that,
what do you see next for Curtis? Because again a
convincing when he could make the argument, I should get
first crack at Aspinall. I think he's not going to

(44:31):
win that argument at this point. Does he have the
luxury of sitting back, healing up and waiting for Aspinall
and presumably gone and then saying I got next, or
do you think he's gonna have to fight again?

Speaker 3 (44:50):
I am really quickly as you were posting that question.
Gave me enough time.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Stargate Pavlovich is to fight at Waldo Cortes Acosta in August.
I could see the winner of that fight and Curtis
Blades fighting towards the end of the year because we've
got to start moving this division forward. I just feel like,

(45:17):
if you're Dana White, you told Volkov, hey, we're gonna
do We're gonna make this right for the ridiculous loss
on the scorecards to Gone.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
I don't think giving him Curtis Blades is that solid.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Can you build intrigue in a third Aspinall fight with Blades?
The first one is when Aspinall suffered the injury, he
comes back and just destroys Blades in the first round knockout.
I mean maybe you can, I don't know. I also
know that in the not too recent past, Blades has

(45:54):
a loss to Pavlovich as well. I think Blades is
in a tough spot.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
It's a very tough spot for Blades. You beat out
me and uh I you know, Derek.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
Lewis is coming up to this.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
I don't know, it's past past. I don't know what
to do with Curtis Plads.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
He's gonna do with the UFC tells him, and it
sounded like he's fighting down at this point.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Yeah, I think you're probably right on that, and you
are right.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
If we are able to get into lusive Aspenall fight
in the UK. I think they've already sent Curtis Blades
over there two times. It just be the UFC UK
trilogy of heavyweights. I am that that could work out
in the favor. We finish it where it started. We
need a name that the crowd's gonna react to. They'll
they'll brew Curtis because they're cheering Tom.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Nope, that's right. The fight that Aspinall suffered the injury,
that was in London. The rematch was in Manchester. Yeah,
we'll see.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Take this one over to Liverpool, you know, pop around.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
The country there exactly exactly a whole damn what else
in this crowd? This fight night card stood out for you? Micah.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Don't know what to make of Mutpabek or Obief. He
looks like a killer, but he missed weeight by ten pounds.
Incredibly efficient throwing Tufik Mustafaief on his back and ripping
his arm off, nearly taking the whole shoulder. But shit, man,
you missweight by ten pounds. The guy the fight moved
up to one sixty five, so great performance, but big miss.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Also, I know in the post fight presser, have somebody
who's as how impressed were you with him? And Dana's like, wait,
the guy who miss weight by ten pounds? You ask
me how impressed I was? And I'm paraphrasing a little bit. Yeah,
he missweight by ten pounds.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Guys, the Ziem Shatakov didn't miss weigh and he came
out in a bar and burner on that short list
that we gotta be talking about later as fight of
the year. Shatakav versus Malta just freaking wild. Malta hurts
Shattakov to the body, empties the gas, saying looking for

(48:00):
the finish, you get Nazine looking more technical in space,
starting to walk the body, great elbow, the cut rips
opened into a brawl. This was an incredible fight. The
right hooks get the finish, and it was where is
this button? I love when they say there's a button

(48:21):
and it's not the same place for every guy, because
you could see Shattakov kept hitting to the side of
the jaw and when he punched Motors straight on, turned
out the lights.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Buddy.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
That was an incredible finish.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yep, for sure, for sure. Anything else on the fight night,
uh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Stupid refereeing real quick when John Young Park has already
been assaulted multiple times to his oculars, his eyes, he
had been poked in me eyes like the three stooges,
and then he's obliterated with an illegal knee and not
to mention after the illegal need The ref is so

(48:59):
slow that there is follow up ground and pounds to
the vulnerable fighter. I don't know how the Iron Turtle
was able to cut through the rest of the second
round and even get the back in the third round,
but it is ridiculous and it's criminal that the fight
got into the third round.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
That needed to be a dq on Rdiev.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
I don't understand how we got into a third round
on that fight. Sorry to not bring up a great
performance as the last thing, but that has to be
admonished that that is unacceptable.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
No, I agree with you on that that was a
bit of a head scratcher. Enjoyed the fight night. Of course,
this week we've got UFC three seventeen International Fight Week.
We'll talk about that in a little bit. I know
at the beginning you touched on some of the stuff
that warmed your heart from this past week, but what

(49:54):
else other than fight night really piqued your interest this
past weekend.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Throughout the PFL. So let's go over to LFA.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Shout out to Beatrice Musquete the mesquite the ten time
Brazilian jiu Jitsu world champion, second round TKO due to
grounding pound she captures the LFA Women's bandomweight title, the
third one of those handed out. I think we'll be
seeing her on the Contender Series, if not in the
UFC very soon. Poomi Nakuda a decision win over Cody Davis,

(50:25):
former LFA champion, quite possibly the best flyweight outside of
the UFC. Keep an eye on Poomy Nakuda. It was
a huge weekend for Bare Knuckle. You go over to Nashville.
You have the Music City Brawl from our friends at BKB.
BKB forty two surviving getting knocked down, getting up off

(50:46):
the mat. Lt Nelson with an incredible right hook knocks
out sam Lera, the two division champion retains his title.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
That one was amazing and a unanimous.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Decision for the wolf Man as he defends the welterweight
title for the first time.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
A fun night in the trigone from Nashville.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Same time, BKFC made their debut in Texas the Fort
Worth area. It was the Dickies Arena and this one
got to tell you about the wild story real quick.
We knew that the main event was getting changed Carlisle
because Franco Tanaglia had visa issues getting into the country.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
David Feldman then announces that.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Ben Bonner is stepping in and then at the press
conference this week announced that Bonner versus Soto in the
main event was for an interim lightweight title.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
So it drew my curiosity, jumps my eyebrow up. How
is Tanaglia getting stripped of the title if there's visa issues,
isn't some of this on the promotion not being able
to get the fighter in. He was not stripped because
of VISA issues. Tanaglia was strip because after he informed.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
BKFC that he was not going to be able to
make it into the States and they realized there was
this VSA.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Issue, he jumped into an MMA fight.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Congratulations Franco Tanaglia on the first round victory. It kind
of brought up the suspicion that maybe the MMA fight
was already on the table, and how committed to BKFC
are you?

Speaker 3 (52:25):
So now it appears that there.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Has been some renegotiation and Tanaglia has signed an exclusive
deal with BKFC, so he's back in the fold. As
of the press conference, we were told he has stripped.
I've seen in the rankings they're still listing him as
the champion as of our recording. Interesting to see how
that plays out. Dana White laid out a plethora of

(52:52):
fights in the announcement for that July twenty sixth fight.
But because I know he's kind of almost a I
don't know, he's he's a he's a some kind of
weird obsession of the podcast. What do you think about
Bryce Mitchell going down to one thirty five.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
It can't hurt.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
It's worth the trynrmaka Metov is not a massive puncher,
and we got to see how depleted the ability to
absorb violence is. From Bryce Mitchell, I don't hate the
call out. I don't love the call out, but it's
an interesting one. Aaron Pico Top of the food Chain

(53:34):
debut moss Are Heavy Love. Do you think the winner
gets a shot at Volkanovski?

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Maybe?

Speaker 2 (53:46):
I feel like that could be in the works if
the UFC was gonna move forward with the aer Rodriguez
versus Volkanovski. I think we have that announcement by now.
I'm pretty sure that moving the fight from Guadalajara to
San Antonio really did change the parameters of what that
card will look like.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. I think it
could take on a whole different look.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Mike Davis is gonna be fighting Mitch Ramirez. July twelfth,
UFC Nashville, Paulo Costa versus Roman Coffee Love we lose
it from this weekend. From UFC three seventeen, it's pushed
back to July nineteenth. UFC three eighteen Matthew Rebecci versus
Bris Duncan. Danny Silva versus Kevin Vallejo are two fight

(54:34):
night additions for the Vegas August second card, Miles John
versus John Masimoto, Elijah Smith versus Tomaschiti Cozama, Andre Fidei
versus Christian Rodriguez. Those three fights you can see August ninth,
UFC Vegas one oh nine. King Bobby Green is gonna

(54:55):
be returning to octagon UFC three nineteen. He's taking Go
Carlos Diego Fahda Edsimbarbosa moving back up to lightweight on
the same card to take on Dakar Close. We mentioned
the Sergate pavlch Waldo Cortesa Coasta fight has been announced
for August twenty third. Same card also gains Sumadaci versus

(55:20):
Kevin Barjas, Nordene Imavov versus Kyo Bihalio. UFC Paris September sixth,
most likely, I'm guessing that one's going to be the
main event of that card if it remains a fight
night without Surreal Gone tom Aspital and then September thirteenth,

(55:41):
the UFC not Che card in San Antonio Gaines Jared
Gordon versus Ralfa Garcia.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Interesting a couple of things I want to ask you
about real quick, Micah, before we look ahead to International
Fight Week in UFC three seventeen and all that good stuff.
Dana White over the weekend was asked for his thoughts
on Jake Paul fighting this weekend, going head to head
with UFC seventeen. Holly Holm also won that card of
the Komain event, and Dana said he had no idea

(56:09):
Jake Paul was fighting on Saturday night. You believe him?

Speaker 2 (56:14):
No, I believe that Dana White is acutely aware of
all big time combat sports events. I'm sure that he
always believes hisn't bigger and you're not gonna lead credence
or credit to any of the ones that you don't
feel is there.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
But I think that.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
It was a very very shrewd negotiating and even oh,
Holly Holme's the co main event. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're
not keeping tabs on what a former women's dam weight
is doing.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
I think he deft out protests too much.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Well, a couple things here, and I agree with you
one hundred percent. Even if you're of the mindset, well,
Dana's focused on UFC. He don't have time to worry
about other shit. Dana's in the boxing game now. He
knows every big time boxing event that's happening. I would
also say Dana knows everything going on on Saturday, on

(57:13):
any going up against any big UFC card, whether it's
NBA Playoffs, which we know are wrapped up now, congratulations
of Oklahoma City, whether it's you know, college World Series,
whether it's college football in the fall, whatever, he knows
what's going on, what boxing events are happening. I would

(57:33):
be very shocked if Dana truly had no idea that
there was a Jake Paul card this Saturday.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:42):
I think he's playing with us a little bit. Yeah,
I don't believe that one.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Oh and before we get too far away from it,
also a shoutout this past weekend to Want Archiletta. He
got a disgusting jumping knee knockout victory on a A.
Baraka card that was in Laughlin, Nevada. I believe that
that was a showcase for Wan Archilett. I wouldn't be

(58:08):
surprised if we see him in the UFC really soon.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
One other thing I wanted to ask you about, as
it relates to John Jones retiring. Tom aspinall the interim
tag remove he is now your UFC heavyweight champion. There
are no UFC champions currently from the United States of America.
I bring this up only because you look at the

(58:32):
UFC fan base in this country. I don't think we're
telling tales out of school. I don't think we're mischaracterizing anything.
There is a big, for lack of a better term,
maga fan base for the UFC. Does it hurt the
UFC that they are no champions from America?

Speaker 2 (58:53):
I don't think so, because all those champions as America
wants ben the knee every time they see Donald Trump.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
True, true, But I'm just I mean, yeah with that
fan But yeah, I agree with you. And look, I
think the UFC's not that America is not important. Hell,
it's most important. But UFC looks at itself from a
global standpoint as opposed just from a US standpoint.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Are we not counting Kayla Harrison and more as a
as an American? Ah?

Speaker 1 (59:26):
You know what I forgot about Kayla? You're right, you
are right there. Let's amend it. There are no UFC
men's champions. And by the way, after Kayla's last fight,
maybe the original statement is true again, who knows? But no,
you are one hundred percent right, Kayla Harrison's there, she

(59:46):
counts one hundred percent. That was just an oversight. It
wasn't a shot at the women or her or anybody else.
But no men's UFC champions from America.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Okay, all right, Well we're getting patriotic and we're doubling
down on it. Who do you see as the most
likely next male American champion?

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Fuck? I should I should have anticipated this coming.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
That's a very good question.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Uh, Corey sad Hagen might be our next best hope
as he takes on Morob Dualish Philly.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
If you look, I mean Stricklyan. Yeah, Strickland is two
in the middleweight rankings. I don't. But it also feels
like he's not all that close to a title shot,
depending on what happens.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
With hollow Well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Hell, Halloway is not American anyway, is he?

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Yeah? He is?

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Okay? Hawaii Okay, uh yeah, okay? At Hawaii Australia an island.
I could remember it was a big island or a
little island.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Holloway.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Maybe let me get.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
Sean Brady's name into the conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Yeah, Sean Brady Balloon Bahama.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
I think he actually is American.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Guys, belall, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he just.

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
Claims really hard not to be, but he actually is.
So we have a couple.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Yeah blaws from Chicago. It doesn't get too much more
American than that, so you know. But yeah, then I
just and again doesn't phase me one way or the other.
I want to see the best. I don't care where
they're from. But I know for a certain part of
the fan base that could be an issue. That's why
I thought we should probably bring that up.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
It could be an issue. But that depends how much
that fan base pays attention to the issue. Because if
you just put their faces on a poster Volkanofsky, JDM
and du plus C, you can mistake Fanford is being
anywhere well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Fair point, fair point, fair point, all right, Micah International
Fight Week upon us UFC three seventeen. On Saturday, You've
got the UFC Hall of Fame inductions, You've got the
UFC BJJ debut, There's a slap fight on Friday night,

(01:02:19):
the big fan fest they have going on in Vegas
this week. It is a huge week for the UFC.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
It is a stupid big week, and of course the
grappling on Wednesday three D Champions. You can be keeping
up with all of this over at the UFC YouTube page.
It's free to watch to see the grappling.

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
In the Octopit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
I'm not sure what we're really calling that thing, but
it's an octagon shape pit, so it's the Octopit. No,
it's not the octopus, the octopit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
I actually like that, the Octopit. I think they should
roll with that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
The Octopit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Mikey Mussamecchi is crazy. His opponent who I have a
hard time with, the Brazilion here Eerson. I believe the
dude is an adc C at ib JJAF champion. He
has credentials just like crazy. The guys that have been

(01:03:17):
doing this the season so far, watching on YouTube, they're
getting after it. This is gonna be incredible. If you're
thinking about petitively tuning in, i'd suggest it give it
a try. UFC is not just sending now there MMA
fighters in these grappling arenas, but these are some legit
best in the world grapplers on showcase, so this just

(01:03:40):
isn't Oh, how good are these guys, these are really
good guys all Wednesday night that are gonna be showcased.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Yep, Thursday night, you get the UFC Hall of Fame
inductions Mark Kerr who's being inducted by Dwayne the Rock
Johnson by the way, vid Or Belleft, Robbie Lawler, Amanda
new Uniez who's coming out of retirement. You've got Israel
Atisania and Kelvin Gastolum going into the Fight wing. Charles

(01:04:08):
Olavera gets the Forest Griffin Community Award. So another big
night during International Fight Week with the Hall of Fame inductions.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Man and Nuniaz For some reason, feels like far and
Above to me, the headliner like the greatest women's champion.
I know she's returning to the UFC, but Far and
Away takes my breath away out of this line.

Speaker 4 (01:04:35):
No disrespect to anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
I don't disagree with you on that. Of course. If
you wonder why the hell's the Rock inducting Mark Kerr, well,
Rock not too long ago finish wrapping a movie where
he plays Mark Kerr. So you got that tie in
that that actually makes a lot of sense. And having
Dwayne Johnson there adds to the star Power. But yeah,
I actually agree with you. A man in Nuniaz seems

(01:05:00):
like the headliner of this class man.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
What a career she's had, and to think about coming
over from Brazil basically being brought over as an opponent
for Strikeforce for Chris Cyborg to all the years later
fight Cyborg and quite literally from a mainstream MMA perspective,
surpass Cyborg.

Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
A truly amazing career.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Great that she's gonna get to have for a moment
before even the biggest fight of her career coming up
against Kayla Harrison.

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
So yeah, truly looking forward.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
To that one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
On Thursday night Friday, you got the fan Expo. I
believe we've got some Canelo Crawford.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Yes, how about that with the TKO boxing whatever we're
calling it. Yeah, before the ceremonial way ends, you get
a Canelo Crawford press conference.

Speaker 4 (01:05:56):
That one's gonna be big.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
And then later in the evening he even got some
Power Slap. I believe it's Power Slap thirteen. So guys
can get on over to fouth on Blue for that one.
I believe that Dumpling and the Hawaiian hit Man are
going five rounds for a super heavyweight title in the

(01:06:19):
main event Raw Wolverine Bada and Russell ConA Rivara light
heavyweight title fighting your co main event, and even a
tripleheader of title fights Anthony Blackburn and Azel Rodriguez welterweight
title fight in your feature.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Then on Saturday, what most offics are here for UFC
three seventeen, T Mobile Arena, your main event, vacant lightweight
title on the line. Iliot Taporia Charles ola Vera. This
should be a really fun fight. They both got finishing
rates of almost ninety percent for their career, the most

(01:07:01):
finishes in UFC history, and I don't think anybody's given
Charles much of a chance.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
Of winning most omissions in UFC history.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
And I think it's the words are sizable betting favorite
when you look at Ilia Sutoria because with his dynamic
reco Roman wrestling background, a high level BJJ black belt
that he wears himself and legit one punch knockout power,

(01:07:31):
not many people feel that there's a lot of room
for error For a Charles Olavera. It was very hittable.
You've said it before because we've seen him falter on
the scale that he is dead to you we must
note that our Minsar Yukian is the backup. My first

(01:07:51):
question to you, Michael Carlisle, before we get into any
of the stakes or anything Saturday night at the Team
Obile Arena, the UFC three seventeen main event, who fights
in it?

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Uh? Well, this gets to my first question for you
to answer your question Olivera to Poria. Second question, so
if Charles Olivera is suddenly undead to me, am I
going to regret that Saturday Night?

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
Don't know?

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
You may?

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
It becomes a very interesting equation. I wanted to say
before I watched the Michael Chandler fight that Charles Olivera
is not going to have a chance. That Elliots Saporia
is going to be able to get into the pocket
and blast away on him win by knockout. That's what
a lot of people are expecting. That may play out
in that fashion. But the Poria will have to get

(01:08:46):
through a hailstorm of front kicks and teeth kicks. I
don't know if you were, Paul, but Olivera did blow
out Chandler's knee in the fight that they had. He
was able to oblique kick him and injure him. The
O Blake kicks, the teeth kicks, they become also consequential.
If Olivera is able to get onto the back, he

(01:09:08):
has an opportunity. He is deadly with his arm bars,
his triangles, his guillotines. All that being said, it's hard
to talk me out of saying Elliott's to Poria is
not going to have the higher level of success. He's
just tighter, he's more tucked in with his guard, he's
more defensively sound. And I get worried when I go

(01:09:31):
back to the Michael Chandler fight and in the fifth round,
Michael Chandler on no leg is out boxing Charles Olivera.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Olivera at plus twenty at plus three twenty five is
very intriguing to me. That's why I'm contemplating Olivera maybe undead. However,
to Pooria at minus four twenty five, he's minus four
twenty five for a reason. It's hard to envision a

(01:10:04):
scenario where Taporia doesn't win. But if Olivera gets through
the weight cut, pretty well, he's a hell of a fighter.
I don't want to sell Charles short, but again, you
look at the odds on this and Taporia is the
overwhelming favorite for a reason, but you to give me

(01:10:27):
plus three twenty five on Charles Olivera. That is pretty tempting.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Charles Olivera was mentally broken, he was beatable. He was
someone that did not respond well to damage. We're not
talking about heavenly broken. We're talking about shining away from it.
Didn't like it, wanted to get away from it. That
boy became a man who is a lion, and he's

(01:10:53):
now more confident in getting hit and working through the positions.
We saw him be able to do that again against Chandler.
We saw him get I want to say dominated, but
there were very rough moments in that Arminser Yuki infin.
It started off back with Olavera selling out for the
YEA team, being put on his back and being beat

(01:11:14):
up by elbowst That's why was a split decision. This
is not a Charles Olavera who gives up. This is
a Charles Olavera who also, dare I say, has more
weapons than Elliot's Aporia. We know that he has the
multitude of submissions. He's the greatest submission finisher in UFC history.
That was the only I think Accolade you left out. Yeah,

(01:11:34):
during your great intro. His elbows are better, his knees
are better, his waitesai clinch is better. It's a conversation
of who's the better leg kicker. But once we take
out the leg kicking, the arsenal of kicks continues for Olavera,
where it goes to a very boxing centric attack from Teporia.

(01:11:57):
Does the size make a difference? There was a lot
time where Olavera was a small lightweight. He is now
troubles cutting weight. As we've seen, he's so large. He's
gonna be the bigger fighter, the more muscular fighter. Elliott Taporia,
his natural weightcut, believes he is the next echelon of superstar.

(01:12:19):
He will have the deeper, gayest tank, he has the
bigger power, and.

Speaker 4 (01:12:23):
It feels like he is the next superstar.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
And it's hard to vote against a guy that we
really haven't seen touched, challenged or anything versus a guy
that will all time is very flawed.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
Yeah, it's it's an interesting matchup. I guess the only
real concern from the Taporious side of things is a
different weight class. How's that going to affect things? Like
you said, it seems more natural, so you wouldn't expect
that to be a problem. But maybe fighting in yeah,

(01:12:58):
I don't know, maybe up fighting against being in there
with a lightweight. Maybe there's a little difference there. But again,
you totally understand why Iliot Taporia is the huge betting
favorite your comin event MICAH flyweight title on the line,
the champ Alexandre Pantosia defends against kai Kara France. Alexandre

(01:13:24):
Pantosia is what seven fight win streak. He hasn't lost
since twenty July of twenty twenty. He's been on a
hell of a role. I don't want to seem like
I'm by any means dismissing kai Kara France at all,
but this year seems like it's Pantosia's fight to lose.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Is there any chance that we all gave too much
of a chance schaias Sakara in December? Yes, and as
Sakara got absolutely a mass absolutely blowing up in front
of us.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
And that's the question, did we give him too much
of a chance or was Pantosia it's just that damn good.
I think it's probably being honest, probably a little bit
of both. But regardless, you you can't dismiss how great
Pantosia was and totally dismantling Asakura.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
You don't want to negate the one punch knockout power
that is kai Kara fronts kai Kara Frantz did absolutely
sleep a Steve Ersig that gave fits to Pantosia and
pushed Pantosa really hard. But this is the Pantosia who
came out that fire and absolutely wrecked Kaiasa Kara. And

(01:14:47):
it's a Kai Kara Frantz who I'm checking it real quick,
but I want to believe he was supposed to have
a fight recently. Oh no, No, he's been sitting idle
for ten months waiting for this. How much does that
weigh in that since August, since that Steve Hersik knockout.

Speaker 3 (01:15:07):
UFC three oh five.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
I don't know if there's been injuries. There's nothing that
I'm seeing officially that fell out Kayasacara has spent ten
months waiting for the fight. Is this a good thing
or a bad thing for him? For Kai Car France,
kay Car franxcuse me? I think I said Askar again.
That's I'm saying two Minik names, getting it backwards.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
No doorries to worries. I'm gonna say it's good even
if there was nothing major, just to be able to
heal up from little nagging things. And yes, ten months,
but we're not talking year and a half, two year
layoff or anything like that. I'm gonna say the layoff
could only be good for Kai Carra France.

Speaker 4 (01:15:51):
This may sound like a joke, but.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
Depending on how much influence Craig Jones has had on
Kai Carra Franz like he did Jack Dela Magne Lena
may have an impact on this fight. We've seen that
this Australian grappling scene has come up and it's been
very formidable against the sambo and traditional.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
Jiu jitsu players.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
That will be a very big aspect because Amir Al
Bosli Branda Moreno, it's losses in two of the last
three fights for Kay Carra Frantz, who did knock out
a title challenger, but he's had four minutes of success
behind two losses is what we're looking at in the
last two years. He may be able to capture fire

(01:16:37):
or lightning in a bottle. I think he's the bigger
to punch you here, but we can't negate that Pantosia
is a better striker that we've all give him credit for,
and he's going to be the better, more superior grappler
from him. I wouldn't be surprised if people are looking
on their betting if you're going for a Pantosia finish,
if you're looking for a late brown and pound TKO

(01:16:57):
or possibly submission from pent in this fight. If you
do see the upset, it's because car Fronts won by knockout.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
Yeah, it'll be interesting. Mike Betting lying Pantosia minus sixty
five Kai Cali Frants plus two fifteen underdog for that one.
Lightweights up next, Benil Daryusch, the number ninth ranked lightweight
against Rinaldo Moykano, your tenth ranked lightweight. I don't know

(01:17:29):
that I see either one of them fighting for the
title again, but damn I'm looking forward to this fight.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
It's gonna be a fun fight technically on the feet,
I think that darn Uge is the better fighter Moi.
Kato's willing to go for it, though I don't know
how much momentum he really feels he lost off of
the Mahasha fight or how much he just learned from it.
It feels like Daryush has been passed by even though

(01:17:56):
we love the salt and pepper hair. Look, I think
that he feels a little bit long in the teeth
and that's something he has to uphill and fight back against.
Where moy Kano, Yeah, he lost, but he lost to
the best in the world, and I don't know if
you can be that disappointed in shooting for the stars.
I think we're gonna look at moy Kano is the

(01:18:17):
favorite here on this one or is this up?

Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
Beckham uh.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
Muikano minus one sixty two Bnil Daryusch plus one thirty six, So.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Not too far off right, Greckham, You got to give
that slight momentum and edge towards moy Kano, and it
just feels like Banil Darjusch. If he doesn't get offensive
right away.

Speaker 4 (01:18:39):
You can put him in the wrong predicament.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
Yep, I'm with you on that. Fly Weight's up next
Brandon roy Val Joshua Van. This should be another interesting fight,
and I suppose a little insurance should something happen with
Kaikara France with the weightcut or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Brandon roy Vall, playing with fire water remain on the card,
wants to make that impact to get notoriety to get
a flyweight title fight. He's the better grappler here. He
is gonna take I think, amonishment to the fact that
most of us are suggesting he's not the better striker.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
Year.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
I hope he doesn't let the ego go to his
head because I believe he could win this one easily
by submission.

Speaker 3 (01:19:20):
On the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
Josh Van is fire on the feet, puts together incredible combos.
I don't think they can make enough improvements in his
defense to make a stallworth of differences because he does
get hit quite a bit for how good he is
with his box and how lighty is on the feet.
Roy Vall wins this fight, and he should to get

(01:19:42):
the next title fight. But this is going to be
an incredible learning experience for Joshua Van. I just don't
think he can get over all of the veteran experience
and big spots that Royvall has already been in.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Yep, Ben Van taking this on short notice. He just
fought three weeks ago opening up the pay per view
Peyton Talbot and Felipe by Lima.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
This is not a good fight for Peyton Talbot, Felipe
Lima on short notice. B Miles Johnson should be in
the top fifteen at one point thirty five. Peyton Talbot
already bit off more than he can true and was
exposed by Hianni Barcelos. This one is not a good
fight for him to be taking. I like Lima, he

(01:20:23):
is the more well rounded fighter here in every facet.
Talbot has to make this one dimensional wrestling match to
be successful for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
For sure, and then you get the prelims. What stands
out to you on the prelims Micah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
Terrence mc kennedy should catch a body or get knocked
out doing so. If he's smart. He wrestles Slava bor Chef,
but I think he's gonna want to make it exciting
enough that all fire could be on there. You got
to watch out for Jacobe Smith, his dad, Gilbert Smith's
and when I've interviewed multiple times, h incredible young boxer

(01:21:00):
taking on Nico Price. Price coming back for another fight,
but I don't think this one works out well for him.
Big expectations on the young Smith. Jonathan Gadinez was supposed
to be much farther up the card. He gets dropped
down now with a short notice opponent Alvin Hines has
a tenacious clinch wrestling game, and if he drags you

(01:21:22):
to the ground, he is a problem for a big man.
I think that Jonathan though, probably wins this one, being
able to keep it standing a bit more high level
experience coming in. Don't know if you're surprised about this one.
Tracy Cortez a favorite over Viviana Arujo. That's ten versus eight,
ten coming in as the betting favorite. Do you think

(01:21:45):
Arujo just done?

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
Maybe not only that surprise that Cortes is coming in
as the favorite, pretty big favorite A minus two twenty five.
I am surprised at that. I guess we'll find out
on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
Might be putting a bright shiny dollar on Aujo.

Speaker 4 (01:22:05):
At a parlay on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Just because Jason McVeagh ultra short notice against Sadikris. He
may be hiding in the doghouse. Dumas, there you go.
You never know what he's doing in that doghouse. Say
not to mention, not to forget, because you're mentioning everybody.
Delgado versus a mel A mel a late start to
the game, a lot of big expectations on Delgado. Hermnson

(01:22:30):
has to wrestle to be effective against Rodriguez. Rodriguez the
Brazilian a much bigger puncher and is the younger fighter.
Interesting stuff on the pre limps. I don't know if
this is the greatest IFW A per view we've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
It's probably not, but I don't think it's the worst either.
I think the the main cards really good. But yeah,
it's look is International Fight Week. There is a ton
of shit literally going on out there, so we'll be
out there this week. If fans are heading out there,
there's plenty of stuff to keep you occupied and make

(01:23:09):
sure you have a good time as it relates to
combat sports, whether it's the BJJ Hall of Fame, Power Slap,
the Fan Expo for fans if you've never been to
that before, it is well well worth it. And of
course the pay per view on Saturday night.

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
We also have this week PFL seven. You get your
semifinals at middleweight and light heavyweight. Also, they got a
special showcase feature at bantamweight Sergio Pedis Ruffian stops former teammates.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
That was probably the best fight on the card.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Fabian Edwards knockout artist cakes On wrestler Josh Saverio in
the main event Wrestler's Battle and the co main event
Phil Davis Sullivan cally pretty excited for the main car there.
I believe we also get your heavyweights semi finals on
the prelimbs, so we get the last of your semi

(01:24:05):
final action from the PFL before they take a good
month off. We get to the finals the five hundred
thousand dollars on the line in August during the day
on Saturday, you got some BKFC seventy seven from the UK.
Your main event welterweight title fight. Connor Tyranny his UK
welterweight title defendant against the former middleweight champion from the UK,

(01:24:30):
Danny Christie. A technician versus a big power puncher. That's
live and free on your BKFC app. Carlisle just for you,
also because I know you love Bellator. The debut from
BKFC of Jimmy Wallhead. I'm sure you remember that name.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Does not excite me in the least, but.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
You remember the name you knew from Bellator.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
Does not excite me in the least. But you knew
the name, but I knew the name. Mike can't tell
everybody how they can keep up with you.

Speaker 4 (01:25:00):
It's over at cageminds dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
Ton of results up, pull us the recaps from this
past weekend's action, Cage Minds, Pombatsports news on YouTube and Facebook.
All kinds of interviews and clips are up. It's Cage
Minds Underscore, CSM on TikTok x Instagram.

Speaker 4 (01:25:17):
Who knows what we're gonna be posting this week?

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
Get the show on X at MMA after Hours. You
can get me at Real Mike Carlisle. We will talk
to you next week for another episode of MMA After
Hours here on the After Hours podcast network.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
Love combat sports.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
I have a website for you, cageminds dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
That's c A G E. D M I n DS
dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
Fight news from around the world, in depth interviews, live
event coverage covering combat sports for over a decade. Established
in April twenty eleven, That's cageminds dot com.