Ep 324: UFC 321 Ends With An Eye-Poke. New Strawweight Champ Crowned. Latest News.

Episode 324: An eye-poke ends UFC 321 main event early.  Should UFC run back Aspinall vs. Gane? Mackenzie Dern wins the women's Strawweight Championship.  All the latest news. 












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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to MMA After Hours. It's Michael
Carlisle and Micah Frankel. Micah, what's going on? Man?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
What's going on? There's a whole shit loading going on. Obviously,
we got the wildest pay per view of the year
ahead of us to talk about, and someone that we
know dearly in a main event this weekend, so there's
a there's a whole lot shaking. Not to mention, there's
some dirty boxing bare knuckle, and that's not even talking

(00:34):
about what happened to Tom Aspinall's eyes.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Oh God, I guess we should just start there. UFC
three twenty one this past week in Yas Island and
your main event, Tom Aspinall's first official heavyweight title defense
taking on Surreal Gone and we get a no contest.
I poke to Aspinall's eye. He is on a to

(01:00):
continue A look, crap happens sometimes and that's the way
it goes. But a really sour ending to this pay
per view.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Deep breath, everybody, We're gonna be here for a while.
Strapping your seatbelts, get ready to cruise. We are on
a Gone Aspinall highway for this episode. I feel like
we got to get this out. We got to talk
about it before we get all the way to what
we'll spend most of the time on. Let's start on
that first three minutes. I think that before we bashed

(01:33):
Surreal Gone for the idiotic move that he did that
ended the fight, we have to admit he was faring
a lot better than most people expected. I think that
we thought it was a foregone conclusion that Tom Aspinall
was gonna run through Surreal Gone. Make a statement here,
and Surreal Gone, for the most part, did a lot

(01:56):
better than most of us. Look.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh uh, that I think is undeniable regardless of how
the fight's end. The fight ended because all of Aspinhall's
fights are over pretty quickly, and we went into this
in great detail last week. Only a couple of fights
make it out of the first round, so you assume
this is going to be quick work for Aspinall. And yes,

(02:21):
the fight didn't make it out of the first round,
but what we got action wise was really dictated and
controlled by Surreal Gone, And I don't think many of
us thought that was going to be the case going in.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Who thought that the athleticism, the ability to cover space
and exit from would be so critical to the fight.
Tom Aspinall early on it felt like was trying too
hard for the knockout coming up short as he was
rushing forward, loading up, and you got a surreal God
who was able to find his bounce, fine his flow,

(02:53):
the jab, the cross. They were both working to a
point where tom Aspinall's bleeding. His nose is already bleeding,
and we're seeing them both effectively use a kicking game.
Tom Asminal, though, was worrying me in the aspect that
he was getting caught and he was trying to explode. Now, yes,
he was getting closer and closer as the round went on,

(03:13):
but there was a lot going on well for Surreal Gone,
to the point that it felt if we got that
other thirty five seconds thirty five seconds, maybe there's a knockout.
But if things kept playing out in that thirty five
seconds like they played out the previous four to twenty five,
we were looking at a ten eight round for Surreal Gone.
And that's just mind blowing from what was expected of

(03:37):
this fight, and even from the aspect that Surrel Gone
got away from a couple takedowns. I don't think we
expected to see those scenarios.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
This was interesting because and it sounds like at some
point you're gonna change your tune on Cereal here a bit,
and that's cool. But he came out with a really
good game plan and whether it was Aspinall under estimated him,
whether it was we underestimated him, surreal, God looked really
damn good, uh in that fight up until the point

(04:08):
where it ended. And then we get the eyepoke.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, even even before the eyepokeroke quick about ten to
fifteen seconds before, we did have an Aspinall attempt at
a takedown and the defense that was used was a
straight palm to the face, a near finger to the
eye incident in that scenario. Also in that sequence we
almost had a foreshadowing we did.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Then we get the eyepoke and Aspinall unable to continue.
I've got thoughts on this. I'm one certain you have
thoughts on this. Your thoughts, Mike Aspinall saying Nope, can't
do it, can't continue and the fight gets caught.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
There are so many thoughts. We were live. We did
a watch along shout out Jayleen Fuller, The Gentleman and
Rob Guterrez joining me here in studio for the watch along,
so with two experienced MMA fighters next to me. Rob's
had eight MMA fights in his career, Jalen's already I believe,
about to have his thirteenth professional fight. When they first

(05:18):
saw they're like, oh, he's gonna take a couple of minutes,
Come on, get back in there. And I don't think
that you could really acknowledge how devastating it was because
a lot of us are now it seems like, almost
numb to the fact that there are ipops. I brang
up that we were doing the live in studio. Also
because we didn't have the volume on, not trying to

(05:40):
get here with any copyrights from the UFC, We didn't
have anyone monitoring the audio from the pay per view,
did not know that tom Asmitaal was immediately screaming I
can't see, did not know the sequence of events that
played out with Herzog and the doctors kind of giving

(06:00):
every opportunity for the fight to continue, where it seemed
like the tune from tom aspinall did not change for
four minutes. It was I can't open my eye and
I can't see. This isn't happening. That was quite wild
and it looked it's still wild. Also that the finger
that went in deeper did less damage. I guess the

(06:22):
other one actually did scrape across something. But do we
turn Surreal God's nickname now into Curly because that was
some three stooges defense man.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
I'm gonna say no. Look, I'm also and I'm not
one hundred percent of sure where you're gonna come down
on the Aspinall side of things. I don't fault Tom
at all. If you want to say, oh, he was
getting his ass beat and he saw a way out
and he took it, you're entitled to that opinion. I'm
Tom Aspinall. I get poked in the eye. I can't see,

(06:57):
I'm not fighting. We talked so much about fighters, say
on here, and usually it's about eating punches, and look,
corners step up for the fighter because the fighter is
not going to do it for himself. I got no problems.
Aspinall said he couldn't see, he's not continuing the fight.
I get it, and that's fine. Now if you want
to question, was it as bad as Aspinall made out,

(07:20):
I do think that's fair. But ultimately none of us
know except Aspinall, and after the fact, you know when
we find out more about the severity of the injury,
but I got at this point no reason to not
take him at his word. This hurts like shit, I
can't see. Oh damn, this fight ain't happening.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
There was no reason if you're tall in Aspinall to
continue the fight. If you can control the fact that
you are now diminished, you are now lesser than because
you got poked in the eye. Some would like to
use the excuse that the fight wasn't going his way,
and that is kind of more brought up in this spirit.

(08:07):
I feel like of kind of the stupid things that
came out of Chile Sunton and Anthony Smith's mouths on
the post fight, because that's where I bring up we
didn't have the audio on. It seemed like Aspinall was
almost immediately adamant that he couldn't see. And there is
some question to be made about that because we all

(08:29):
understand there's five minutes, you got poked in the eye.
There is a foul and maybe it was just a
lack of composure from Tom Asmitall, because no one thinks
that you can't see or that you're lying. It's just
that he was so adamant about it the whole time.
You would have liked to have seen him try to

(08:49):
have went through the process and not just continued with.
What many will use is the escape. That's their excuse
to say he escaped.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
And I do get that because to me, while yes,
you could look at it as his immediate reaction signaled
the severity of the injury, and that's more of the
camp I fall into. I can't see how people would
be like, oh, this fight wasn't going well for him.
He immediately knew I just got poked in the eye.
I can get out of this, and he capitalized on it.

(09:24):
I don't buy that. If we find out later, hey,
wasn't a serious injury at all, then maybe we revisit
that portion of it. But you said, and I think
it was just a word to use, But I think
you said something to the effect of he was compromised
after the ipot. Compromise is getting hit upside the head
of being not loopy, being blinded, and not being able

(09:45):
to see out of one eye. To me, that's a
little more serious than being compromised. It's unfortunate. I actually
and I know we'll talk about this side of it
as well, I feel really bad for Surreal gone here.
Now he's the one who poked the eye intentional or not.
But it's a bad situation. I'll tell you this though.

(10:11):
The only people this truly sucks for are the people
who pluck down the money for the pay per view.
Everybody else comes out of winner here. And we can
get into that in a bit as well.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
I can see what you're saying about that. I'm not
sure it is disabled.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Is disabled a better word?

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I couldn't find a better word, like what you would
you say? Disabled? Either way, it feels like.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Injured, pretty significant injury. If you can't see, that's pretty signetant. Now,
it's not a bone snapped into or or torn acl
and you're trying to hop around on one leg like
like Daniel Russo or some shit and karate kid. But yeah,
if you can't if he truly could not see and
there's damage to the eye, that's pretty damn serious.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
I agree with you, and even that moment, it's hard
to want to fully buy into for me that tom
Asminal wanted out because I tend to more that I
think about it lean towards what you're saying. I think
people just would have been happier if he would have
waited the four minutes and then complained like hel about

(11:18):
how bad the I is. And then you escape a
lot of the trash talk because at least you gave it,
you're all to restart it. And is there a part
where it's appalling behavior. It's kind of like a magic
word you can't see. I can't see. It's usually a
magic word to stop the fight, and this time it

(11:39):
was almost a repetitive statement that had to be forced
for the referee and the doctors to hear it. And
even they were just kind of adamant, let's let the
five minutes pass and see clears up. So I think
that comes back to hurt the character of tom asminaal
where you're almost arguing that the fight needs to be
stopped where they want to the system. And then I

(12:01):
don't think the videos from the doctor's office, I don't know,
with how harsh social media is, if they really help him.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
I don't believe I would have posted those because look again,
I'm not questioning the injury, but the way he was acting,
you assume the next day that I swollen shut what
you can see as red as hell. And it just
looks deformed and disfigured. And while you could certainly see
the irritation, it wasn't like that at all. I think

(12:33):
if this happens late in the second round or the
third round, for me anyway, I could a whole lot
easier buy into the Aspinall looking for a way out
thing and all that. But this early in the fight,
even though the round wasn't going the way Aspinall wanted
it to, there's a lot of fighting left to go.

(12:54):
I don't just me personally, I don't think he was
looking for a way out. That being said, I agree
with you one hundred percent. They were gonna take the
five minutes regardless. Unless Aspinall's eye is laying on the canvas.
They were taking the five minutes. So maybe if he

(13:15):
reacts a little differently than the reaction after the fight's
a little different as well. But to me, this is
more of Aspinall. Oh my god, this really hurts. My
eye is screwed up and I can't see. Let's not
dick around. I would like to go see a doctor.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
I think that we got robbed of possibly an all
time great heavyweight fight. They're both phenomenal athletes in great shape.
There were some leg kicks from aspenall body kicks. There
was a right hand that landed Gone, obviously busting him
up to the nose. There was so much more for
us to learn about. We wanted to know who Tom
Aspinall is. We thought we knew who Surreal Gone was,

(13:54):
and it felt like it was brewing into telling us
what we needed to know, more about what was deeper
inside the skill and the will of both men. But
what we have is a no contest, and should it
have been a no contest? Is there a thing as
a accidental I stabbed you with three fingers in the

(14:17):
freaking eyes. Maybe maybe one finger, but three damn fingers
into the eye is the same accidental as as anything.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yes, it's one hundred percent. It can It can be
one hundred percent accidental. If you're going out and you
got your hands extended, you're probably not just extending one finger.
You're you're extending multiple fingers. I get how it happened.
I don't think that Surreal God's a dirty fighter. I
don't think he did it on purpose, but the result,

(14:51):
you know, Look, I can accidentally punch you in the nuts,
or I can intentionally punch you in the nuts, it's
gonna hurt just as bad either way. Right, So same
thing with an ipoke, whether it's intentional or not, it
hurts and can inflict the damage. Now, if you want
to say, all right, an experienced fighter like Surreal gone,

(15:13):
should he know better than have the fingers extended. Yeah, probably,
much like any other fighter. Look, I will tell you
there's no better fighter in the world at extending fingers
when when when they go into shots in the head
than arguably the greatest MMA fighter of all time, John Jones.
So I mean there's also a a strategy to it.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
I guess for most of the night, I want to
give the refs a lot of credit. We saw cage grabs,
immediate stoppages, we saw short pulls, immediate stoppages. We saw
point deductions. We saw refs getting up in asserting themselves
in people's business. Because even though we want the refs

(15:57):
to be silent and not a part of the action,
they took that trajectory for so long that we had
the argument, what stops you from walking out there and
poking your opponent in the eye, What stops you from
sliding it inside leg? Kick all the way up, just
to just to weaken the man in the belly a

(16:19):
little bit more. You get one freebee. We all know
that there's a freebee. There never isn't a freebee. So
I think that seeing the proactiveness of the referees was
a step in the right direction because it has to be.
And on the gone side, where we say less of

(16:39):
maybe it was a disqualification worthy val because he had,
just as we said, nearly stuck fingers in the eye
with that palm strike takedown defense a couple moments earlier.
So it wasn't like God wasn't riding the line of
maybe my fingers will go in his eyes. So if

(17:01):
that's how you play, I don't know how you can
say it's not intentional. It's intentional for me to have
my hands out like this. It's just not intentional for
where they land, even though anytime you land to strike
it is intentional. It's basically that same weapon you're using,
which will bring up like three other people's comments from
this week.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Look, I think the motion is almost certainly intentional. I
don't think the ipoke itself is necessarily intentional. I believe
that the goal there is you want the other fighter
to think, oh my god, he's about to poke my eye.
I need to change what I'm doing. I need to
move whatever, you know, to distract the opponent. Now, is

(17:42):
that walking a fine line? It is, But as long
as you're not poking the eye, then it's not a
rules violation. Now, obviously we know he poked the eye,
but again, I don't think it was an intentional I
poke per se. But I'm also not naive enough to

(18:03):
think that it was just coincidence that when he was
going in you had the fingers extended. But hell, we
see lots of fighters do that.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
That's why I think we have to have a bigger
deterrent to deter them from doing it, so that we
don't have main event fights ending from epokes, so that
we don't have fighters first to continue due to ipokes.
Where where do you fall on? And it's a totally
different conversation. I've heard many a fighter's talking about, well,
if it was a closed eye from a punch, he

(18:32):
would have had to keep fighting, or he is a quitter.
There's blood in the eye, you have to keep going
as a quitter. So to them, it felt like a
lot of the conversation did stray where we know foul
injury versus injury caused, But it seems like if there's
not a deterrent, what's to be the difference between the

(18:52):
two from a fighter not fouling where they're like, hey,
I'm gonna cause an injury anyway, and that puts me ahead.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
I would argue serrel Gon suffered the ultimate deterrent. The
bout was ruled in no contest. He was well on
his way to Now, look, it's one round and who
knows what happens in round two, round three, But based
on the first round, he was well on his way
to winning the world title. And that goes away, we're

(19:23):
almost certainly getting the rematch. Who knows how that plays out,
how Tom trains differently. So I hear you, but I
would argue that, yes, surreal Gon was punished. His opportunity
to capture the UFC World Heavyweight Championship went down the
drain for that night. Now, yes he's going to get
another opportunity, but who knows how that's gonna play out.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
These are a lot of people's comments coming up, and
I want to examine a few of them. There's a
couple of guys that we like that I've talked about this.
Jim Miller said, I are the response of an inner bitch,
and he has fully been able to control not poking
all of his opponents in the face for his record

(20:10):
setting forty three fight UFC career, forty three fights. And
the man's not an eye poker. And he said it's
the fault of the inner bitch.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
I mean a UFC championships, the Jim Miller win.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
We never said he was a fact.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Now, No, he didn't poke anybody in the eye any titles.
Oh look, and that's what I'm not going to everybody's
entitled to their opinion. I get what he's saying as well,
but I pokes in this sport are a big enough
of an issue that the UFC went to the trouble
of creating nude gloves to try to rid the sport

(20:49):
of these nasty eyepokes. The gloves didn't work, the fighters
didn't like them for whatever reason, so they did away
with them. But I hear what he's saying, and there's
some truth to that. I'm not disputing what jam Miller
said there. But it's also more than just if you
poke somebody in the eye, you're lazy, you're dirty, you're

(21:11):
not disciplined, this, that or the other. Again, sometimes shit
just happens.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Or what about Mighty Mouse. It's the reaction because you're scared.
It's just a natural reaction. It's just how you train
that way. And he says his hands were always open
after he was throwing strikes, just because that's natural.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
See, and I think again, and I'm not justifying anything,
but I tend to fall more into that camp. If
Surreal God had a history of being a dirty fighter
and things like that, maybe we look at this differently.
But God's controlling the fight at this point. Why would

(21:53):
he intentionally do anything to jeopardize that. I don't think
that he would see now to me, and I don't
agree with it this either, But I've seen a lot
more of the rather than blaming Surreal Gone stuff to
Aspinall's not tough, Aspinall's not a man. You should have
sucked it up. It's it's die in the cave blah

(22:15):
blah blah, which I don't agree with either, But I've
seen a lot more of Aspinall should have been tougher,
more so than the blaming Gone. Although I get both
sides of it. I just don't agree with either side.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Not to bring up what I was also watching this
week and a lot of time it gets a bare knuckle,
it's bare knuckle boxing. There's no reason why you wouldn't
be measuring the distance doing that same thing. And I
feel like the finger pokes the eye, the fingers to
the eye, the eye pokes are a lot more prevalent
in MMA, and I think it's partly because there's a

(22:50):
lack of a deterrent, and secondarily, there is a fear
of getting put on your back and wrestling, so your
hands are open in that deterrent to try to stop
the person. And as gone was, poking off, the pushing
off the face, and because there's no point to turrent,
you're okay with poking your opponent in the eye because

(23:11):
there doesn't seem to be the fear in bare knuckle.
They get in there and two dudes just exchange and
but to the point of I don't want to judge
bare knuckle fighters, but they're a a less fine tune
machine rather than the elite level of MMA fighters we're
talking about. So if those dudes can just fearlessly trade

(23:31):
in the pocket without eyepokes occurring. I don't see why
it happens so much in MMA, and I'm just comparing
the two because they're the two sports where your fingers
are available. Boxing it's not.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
But you answered your own question, like literally during that
you answered your own question, and bare knuckle you don't
have to worry about being taken down. In MMA, you do,
so you are using your fingers to push away.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
So that's where I feel like the fouls are intentional.
You know what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Well, well, no, not necessarily, but it does open up
the potential for more more I pokes certainly. Yeah, I
don't dispute that at all, but that doesn't mean it's
dirty or you necessarily have to have more of it. Again,
sorel Gon suffered the ultimate deterrent. I don't know why
that's even an argument. We actually, you know, real quick

(24:26):
rematch or not, srel God may never have the opportunity
he had this past Saturday, being the fight going the
way he wanted it to like that. Who knows what's
gonna happen in the rematch. Now, look, maybe Gon goes
out and dominates, and hell, maybe he pokeshim in the
damn I again, I don't know, but I again, if
you if you want to tell me I poke incidental

(24:50):
or not automatically, it's it's a point deduction. If that's
what we're going to do every fight. I don't have
a problem with that. I'm just saying I don't know
that that changes anything. Because you are trying to you're
trying to land your punch or whatever. You are trying
to get away because you don't want to be in

(25:10):
a situation where you get wrapped up and taken down.
I get it, but I don't know that we necessarily
have to have sweeping changes because of this incident.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
I think that referees need to just enforce the fouls
more prevalently so we don't have more of these incidents.
And I almost just feel like if it was that
prevalent of a foul, because it's a fight ending foul,
it should have been a disqualification win for tom aspinall.
And maybe we don't call Surreal Gond dirty and I
don't want to say it was intentional. How about just

(25:45):
this one. It was a foul and it was horrendous
enough to be fight ending. So if a foul is
fight ending, it's just more of a question with a referee,
when does it become a disqualification win versus a no contest,
Because let's let's forget the words intent. Let's just look

(26:06):
at A foul. Is a foul is a foul, And
this was such a foul that it was fight ending.
And that's where I feel like you have to hit
them hard to make these deterrents. A no contest now
assures us of a rematch, and they do get that
time to make the adjustments. Surreal Gone Blue one night.

(26:27):
Maybe if you're Tom Aspinall, if you're really affected by this,
do you pitch a bitch enough? No, he doesn't get
a rematch. The guy tried to stab my eyeballs out.
I don't feel like it's safe for me to get
in there with him. Fuck getting knocked out. I need
to see it later in my life. And he's fouling.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Tom Asabadall a'ate got that kind of pulled my man,
And if he wants to play that, then we'll just
get gone and John Jones for the vacant UFC title.
I would argue, outside of Aspinall's eye and Surreal Gon's opportunity,
the only losers here are the people who pluck down

(27:05):
money for UFC three twenty one. Here's why they say
that we're going to get the rematch. And I know
Dana wasn't happy about that postfight, but unless you were
just going to cave and give John Jones everything he wanted,
what else were you going to do with Tom aspinall
after this fight or gone? If Gon wins. Maybe you

(27:25):
run it back if Gon wins, But what other options
were there? We were you going to break out Alexander Volkov?
No disrespect, but who's itching for that fight?

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Pavlovitch was a I thought that was a bad decision too.
I thought I'll made a one watching it live. I
know Volkov was more active, but he was not Mackenzie
durn level of activeoffice back to cause that much damage.
I thought that was a bad decision. Keep going, sorry,
that's right now.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Maybe you want to say, well, alex was gonna go
up to every way and he was going to challenge
the winner. Maybe, but that could still happen. If you're UFC,
you get to book another heavyweight title fight between these
two that people already care about more than they cared
about the first one. Maybe this keeps Alex in light
heavyweight one more fight. Maybe it doesn't, but it draws

(28:17):
interest in a division that unless John really is back
and is going to be back for a while, it
draws the vision to interest to a division that there
ain't a lot of interest in right now. So I
would argue from that, now, that doesn't.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
You UFC didn't need to be mad that this happened.
Does it works out well for them? Yes, Dana seemed
mad And did Dana really need to say that? He
basically alluded to Tom Quinn He's the one God poked
in the eye. He didn't want to fight. He didn't
say he was injured so bad he could not continue.
Dana White literally said he did not want to fight.

(28:54):
We've said shit here, and I don't think any of
it really crossed the line of who was the harsh's
critic of Tom aspitall? And it might have been Dana White.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yes, I will look, you also don't like to end
pay per views and title fights the way that ended,
so I get that as well. I was a little
surprised at ed Dana's reaction. Again, I don't, I truly
don't think this is a situation that could be helped.

(29:28):
I hate to sound repetitive, but sometimes crap just happens,
and I think that's what we've got here. But I'll
tell you this, people will be a lot more interested
in the rematch than they were for the original fight.
Maybe the Saudis weren't happy about this, and that's why
he was a little unhappy. I don't know, but I
was a little surprised by Dana's reaction.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
I would have been happier if you said, well, it's
a real God's the one that caused the FALLA damn it.
The fight had to end, so that sucks, and it's
a real god caused it, rather than Tom Aspinall didn't
want to fight. I just didn't understand that. I know
you don't want to go off the air in that manner,
but blame the damn ipokes. That was an interesting one,

(30:13):
and I was surprised that Data wasn't more convicted about
how he'd like ipokes to be handled as far as
point deductions or anything. They asked him in the post
Fipress conference and he was like, Ah, you know, this
shit happens. What are you gonna do? And I'll be like, wait,
what are you gonna do you're gonna give us an
answer of how you'd like the commission to handle it
if there was any way they didn't handle it, or
kind of illuminate into why you were happy with how

(30:35):
it was handled. I just thought it was an interesting
night of responses from Dana White concerning this main event.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Here's the other thing with your grand plan of all
eyepokes are automatically a point deduction. Anytime somebody's hand gets
three feet within somebody's face, they're gonna be grabbing their face.
Oh my god, I poke, I poke. So does the
official take the fighter's word, ignore the fighter, or do
we stop every goddamn two minutes for a five minute

(31:04):
replay to see how close the finger was to the
eye and things like it, and all of a sudden
it's like a football game that gets drug out because
we keep having challenges and replay assistance and all that.
That's another thing that I think has to be factored
into to all of this as well. Again, well, I'm
not against what you said. I just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
If the fingers are extended the fighterso didn't even have
the yell eyepoke, the refs would be jumping in there.
Warning him, jumping in there, warning him if you keep
extending that shit, jump in there. And it's not just
the ipoke, it's the action of threatening in that manner
towards the eye. You're allowed to do this, you're not
allowed to do that.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Okay, Hold right, did you watch last week's card, Micah,
did you remember the officiating on the card last week?
And these are these are the motherfuckers that you you
want to have, should be doing this, should be doing that,
And ask who you want to exclusively rely on. There's
a flaw in that theory, mic I'm just say it.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Well, come on, it's the same refs at anyway where
we are. So we yes, we're supposed to rely on
them to do their jobs, as the rule book says it,
fingers up, not fingers out. There's a whole lot to
be working with those fingers. We just know that Tom
aspinall wishes that's a real God, didn't poke him in
the fucking eye and try to blind him.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, Ultimately, and this is oversimplifying it, and it's probably
overlooking a lot of important things, like a lot of
the stuff you just brought up. Ultimately, you get to
do the rematch. It extends out an interesting fight in
the heavyweight division, where quite honestly, you don't have a
lot of interesting options without bowing down to John Jones

(32:51):
or without Alex moving up to heavyweight, which Dana also
seems to be against. So I don't it sucks for Asspenall.
It's certainly sucks for Gone, it sucks for the fans
who plucked down the money for UFC three twenty one,
But I don't really think this sucks nearly as bad
for UFC as Dana might have wanted you to believe
a post fight on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
This clears all the doors, all the hurdles for John
Jones Alex Maheta at the White House. There's nobody's not
to have them in a heavyweight fight. Now. The heavyweight
division is a muck and that's just a fun super fight.
We can make that shit right away.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
And you know what you're I don't think they make
that fight, but you're not wrong. If that's what they
want to do, you'd you know, look, let's be honest,
you're probably not running Aspenall gone back before March, So yeah,
I would think if Alex wants to move up and

(33:49):
you're going to allow that to happen, and John Jones
is the fight you want to make for him? The
Aspenall Gone certainly ain't standing in the way of it, and.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Can the innern can the fans make enough noise to
make that fight happen. We've seen Alex mentioned in social
media he didn't make the big speech because of the
passing of Arthur Jones, respectfully calling out in a respectful
manner John and then John and knowledge it this weekend
even basically opened up the door. Hey, White House, me
and Alex, what's stopping it? I think it's a huge

(34:21):
opportunity and I think they're gonna.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Do it well. John also said that after the no contests,
so I think he saw the writing on the wall there.
But yes, I do think both guys certainly that's more
of a resume builder for John Jones than Aspenall Gone.
So yeah, if that's the direction you want to go,
that's certainly White ass open now for sure, Micah for

(34:46):
all to talk about the main event, we did crown
a new champion on Saturday, Mackenzie Dern unanimous decision. She
becomes the brand new women's strawweight champion.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
And did it in an unconventional manner we could say,
because this was a fully winnable fight that again on
our live that you could check out out the Cage
Minds YouTube page. We were highly debating each round, did
the top time, did the pressure did the control win
out over the hailstorm of frantic strikes that was coming

(35:23):
up from the bottom. It also felt like that Mackenzie
Dern was very lucky that upkick. Well, Vienna Generoba was
down on all fours again fully should have been something
point deductible. Very lucky that that's not how the referee
took it. How Mark Goddard just pointed his finger and

(35:46):
yelled at Dern and never really actually stopped the action.
But it was a fully winnable fight for Vienna Jenjeroba
that I think the heart and the will of Mackenzie
Dern was able to just out work in those obviously
bad spots.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah. Look, it was certainly a very big win for her,
certainly the biggest moment in her career. I've got no
problems with the decision. I absolutely thought McKenzie durn won.
But just looking at the scorecards, man, they're all over
the place. One judge gave Janjeroba rounds two and three.
One gave her the first round, the other judge gave

(36:25):
her rounds one in three, So I think to us
so two of the judges gave her the third round.
Two of the judges gave her the first round. It
was just again, I think there were opportunities there for her,
she just wasn't able to capitalize it, and McKenzie Dern did.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
It felt like the fourth and fifth rounds were Dern
and the other three rounds you could debate back and forth. Definitely,
the first round felt like the swing round. I went
thinking just at the conclusion after the victory, I thought
it was one four five for Dern and I if
you went the other way, I could have seen one
two three being in jan Jueroba's favor because it was

(37:07):
amazing that she was getting the dominant positions but just
getting out work. It felt like she needed to get
out of the guard, be able to get to the
half guard, and it was amazing that she was willing
to use her elbows on the feet. She had some
nice strikes in the clinch, but didn't really focus that much,
just hammer fisting. I think she's gonna look back and
see missed opportunities. Credit McKenzie Dern, especially on the historical

(37:33):
nature of this victory, the first first overall competitor to
win ib jj F first place, a d c C gold,
and now a UFC title, So a trifecta of some
of the most herald of grappling competitions outside of the Olympics.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
I did, did, did. Don't know what you just said,
but it sounded impressive.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Real fans, real hard cars, y'all know what I'm saying.
It's a lot of letters. It sounds like alphabet super
We're used to it.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
What are you doing with McKenzie durn for a first
title defense? Is it gonna be Tatiana Sarez?

Speaker 2 (38:13):
We defer that one to the women's straweight division is
only called upon once, maybe twice a year. Let's wait
to see how things play out next month before we
start jumping into that bag of hats. Maybe way Lee
just comes back down. There's there's a real opportunity after
way Lee Sha Tenko. Does Waylee come back down? And

(38:34):
if she does, she just re grabs the crown whenever
they want to make that fight possible. Yell and shall
nan a. I forgot who you just said, but you
throw them all in a bag at Maybe it's Sores.
I just don't it's a repeat of this fight. Sores
could take Durn to the ground and then Dern's gonna

(38:54):
out work her once we're there. And I don't even
know if Sorez is as competitive with Dern on the
feet because of Durn's craziness. I think that'd be a
more fresh match up. Maybe to see jan Shallman, I'm
just not a lot of these are rematches with the
path that Mackenzie Dern took, and it feels like the
wom' strawweight division is muddled. The real answers you wait

(39:16):
till after Valentina and Waylea.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
What else on the cards stood up to you?

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Mikeah, Well, we already brought it up. We now understand
what Dana White said when he met I'll make it
up to your Volkov. Well, there was the makeup for
your Volkov. You lost an ugly smifth decision, and all
of a sudden you won an ugly split decision. So
all is right in the Alexander Volkov world. I don't

(39:43):
know if he really feels that way, Asthma Marzana Khanoff
impressively has to be looked at as a contender in
the light heavyweight division after starching Alexander Rackett, who might
be more well suited off by moving up to heavyweight.
We need those guys zoom back around to when we

(40:04):
get to the scorecards. How the fudge fudge does Usman
Nermagametov get sat down with the knee and not even
lose that round. When I say you have absolutely got
to maul a normal Gametov in that part of the
round to world to win a round, they're not doing

(40:26):
much to combat that narrative, even if it is the
same judges just succumbing to some pressure. We were seriously
having a debate and Mario Batista stealed the first round
with nearly mangling Derma gammettas fuck because Derma Medav controlled
the first round, but it seemed like Batista, with his
tenaciousness on the submissions, might have done more prevalent damage.

(40:48):
I thought the fight was all up for grabs in
the third To hear thirty twenty seven, It blew my mind.
But there is a perpetual height machine behind Usman. Dermagammettov
will be the next challenger after Peter Yong, Marob du
Wallach Philly. So we are continuing that narrative.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
I mean, all three judges saw it the same way.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
That was perplexing to me when we were having a
hated debate looking at it on a damage merit, and
especially with a knockdown, you can go twenty nine to
twenty eight, the first and the third for Norma gun
metalf I thought the first to be a swing round.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
To see all three judges go in that direction was
a little eyebrow raising, and to see a knockdown not
even get a round is even more eyebrow raising because
there wasn't much significant damage done from the normal gum
meta of control of that round. That was all surprising
to me. That's why it was left for last on
the main card to be brought up, because it just
felt like a foregone conclusion going in that if Mario

(41:45):
Batista did not finish Usman Umar Normogum out of Husman
nibergum meta member got out of any normal got met off,
he was not gonna get the victory, and that just
kind of is how it played out to me more
than we saw the second best man way in the world,
and that's what everybody wants to keep telling me, and
he was good. I just don't know if it was

(42:07):
that great ahead of the rest of the division what
Nurma gamad Off he gave us. And of course, how
can we not say what impressed us on the card
because Quillan Salikid, damn that was impressive.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
It was look real quick. I do agree with you
about the Nurma Gametov from the standpoint of it wasn't
the most impressive way it was might have been one
of the most least impressive thirty twenty sevens I've ever seen,
but he got well what he needed to. I'm saying,
I'm sorry, who did.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
You just say, Quillan Salikid that vicious head kick knockout
a nasare at high request. And I don't know if
you've already heard the story. They said it even on
the broadcast a few times. Sliquid didn't even start training
until Nasa Rat had already made his UFC debut.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Damn yeah, natural you know what wasn't impressive?

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Uh hemddua wad well.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
I would argue Chris Barnett was even less impressive, but
uh yeah, yeah, that that fight as a whole, I guess.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Which one of them is still on the UFC roster today. Well, yeah, yep, yep, yeah,
same thing for yeah that well Oza Maxim, his tenure
is over. Big upset for Mizuki in a way. The
decision over Jacqueline Amore, who was a massive favorite, looked
like the grappling gave out right away, and so did

(43:40):
her tenacity. Ludwick Kleine hold on, hold on, leg is
damn broken and he wins the fight. I'm like, that
is some tenacity to make it to the judges limping.
And if you're Rebeccy, you're like, dude, if this was
a five round fight, I had you you couldn't walk,
I had you hold on.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
So hamd he's not on the roster anymore. And did
you just say that Jacqueline Amorum is not either?

Speaker 2 (44:08):
No osat Maxim? Oh Maxim okay, okay, okay Maxim who
miss weighed and lost also I got you, okay. So
one winner who was who was unexciting in his four
fight tenure with the promotion, and another guy who miss
weeighted his last fight with the promotion. Both of them
it's more not released. I think it's contracts expired and

(44:28):
not extended. So if you're seeing released headlines, guys, those
aren't fully accurate. It's more like you're just kind of
done with the company. We are not gonna renew your option.
But little with Klein. He looked great for the first
two rounds, much more technical than Rebeccy, and then Rebeccy
became a dog starting again after these takedowns. Horrendous injury,

(44:48):
a bunch of smashing. This fight could have been a
TKO win from for Rebeccy. If you do just want
to backed off stand up man, stand up, I guess
that's a lot of wherewith all of what's going on,
no one noticed besides Klein in his corner. But hell
of a ballsy, courageous way to get through those five
minutes from Ludwick Klein, who I would like to talk

(45:10):
about what's next for him, but with his leg mangled,
it's probably a year out before we see him again. Yeah,
we probably got time to figure that one out, I
think so I from Alascarov was not that impressive, but
he does have a beat Nerma got out of his
corner now, so we did see the wrestling come out
of his chops and he got a victory. The refs

(45:31):
were also MVPs. And I don't know about you, but
I thought Jose Delgado might have pulled out that fight
with Nathaniel Wood.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
He could have went either way.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
That was a really close twenty nine to twenty eight
on all three score cards. That was a contentious twenty
nine to twenty eight.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
If you ask me contentious, I like it.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
We also had BKFC Roome, Italy. There is a new
cruiserweight champion, and you want to talk about contentious. We
don't get to see the star cords here. They don't
release them like the UFC. A split decision for Alessio
Sakara over Chris Camosi. He did knock one of Kemosi's
front teeth out. He did have a very competitive final

(46:12):
three rounds. I'll tell you the first two I felt
like we're all Commosi, and after that there were some
big shots landed. And it's weird for me to say.
I didn't think there were really three swing rounds, but
apparently there were. And Alessio Sakara shocks us all his
second fight in BKFC. He is the world champion. Franco
Tinaglia also tenacious, split decision win over Ben Bonner. That

(46:36):
one on a second watch, not as controversial the aggression
going into Nagulia's favor. That one. Very good aggression versus
tactical defensive awareness kind of battle fight announcements for this week,
we got a couple little ones chepe Merriskolls jumping in
to fight Pat Sabatini. November fifteenth, UFC neuro Aliev versus

(47:02):
sham Rock has been added to the UFC Catar card.
Mohammad naiav Versus Marlon Santos, which was supposed to be
a part of that Quitar card, has been jumped over
to the UFC three twenty three card December sixth. That
card also gaining the return of Jalen Turner short retirement

(47:23):
for the Tarantula and Edson Barbosa jumping back up to
one fifty five. Ibo Acelan is gonna welcome i Wan
Bravezinski to the to the UFC on that card. Also,
I might just be a little bit sick. I kind
of like that Turner Barbosa gives me some like Nostalia
feelings for that matchup. Yeah yeah. J Anderson Brito Massal

(47:47):
like Bajadasani added to the December thirteenth, Fight Night had
a couple other things I wanted to bring up to
you real quick. We saw her at the Hall of
Fame induction alongside Amanda and Ninya. The PFL has officially
announced Larissa Pacheco released from the company. She's gonna be

(48:07):
heading to the UFC anytime now. I hope we see
one forty five opened up. She was the former lightweight
and featherweight champion in the UFC. I think women's heavyweight
might be more intriguing than just bad and weight right now.
If we could get all the featherweights and bad and
weights together, let's just open it up and make a

(48:28):
woman's heavyweight.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
I bet you that never happens.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
I'm trying to think of ideas to add some spice
into a division, and I don't know if Larissa can
make one thirty five, but she would be a super
interesting name to see go against Kayla, assuming that we
only get one Kayla Amanda fight. Yeah, yeah, you're Rodriguez.
He has had hand surgery. He's out two to four months.

(48:54):
Do you think this affects anything in the featherweight division?
A title picture and why we haven't seen a Volkanovski announcement. Yet,
I thought we were gonna get one this year.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
I'm a little surprised that we're not getting that at
the end of the year.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
I thought we were. It was gonna be Murphy versus Volkanovski.
I had just thrown it out there, Rodriguez out for
a couple months, saw that one come up. Uh hey,
you guys remember Martin Windey, Well he will be returning
to Octagon December twenty eighth. He can go fight for
his old world title once again. Him and Wolf Furry
will do the deal that is in Prague at the

(49:33):
O two Arena Octagon making that big announcement about their
heavyweight title fight to close out the year.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Hold on, you just brought up Martin Boudet, but you
didn't bring up the fucking biggest news of them all. Finally,
from Michael Chandler, it has been announced. He's getting what
he wanted. Oh no, eight, he's not. He's actually fighting
Chad Mindez at our three AF excuse me, three Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
I'm like, don't call it RFA. That's it.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
I got.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
I got cards from that company I used to promote.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Real American Freestyle.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
You know why i'd remember that up.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I know why you didn't bring it up, but go ahead,
because I have.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
No clue who won or even competed at Real American
Freestyle two this past weekend, so I failed to think
I'm gonna remember that mad Mendez and Chandler are competing
by the time it actually happens. Well, there you go.
That brings us to this weekend. You want to talk

(50:38):
about names that you might know, might not know. Sure
DBX four tennessee free on YouTube. Yes, it's the Dirty
Boxing from Mike Perry, from John Jones. Your main event,
Gable Steveson is gonna take on Billy Swanson. Billy has
had some MMA in his background, not a highly credentialed prospect.

(50:59):
Steveson the biggest prospect of them all. I almost think
it is a good idea to make him get in
there and force him to use his hands. If you
were able to put Gable in a traditional amateur program. Honestly,
do we need to sign him up for some smokers?
We need to get him in the USA boxing. We
needed to work those hands, those feet to truly feel
comfortable being a mixed martial artist. So as eyebrow raising

(51:22):
and as strange as this is. I think this is
actually a crucial step in his maturation to be able
to get in there, use his striking and feel comfortable. No.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Yeah, if he's serious about MMA, this is a logical
step for him. I agree with you one hundred percent.
It makes total sense.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
The co main event you get Brian Battle. I believe
he'll make weight for this one taking a kill shot.
Nick korig is too. This is insanity. These are gonna
be two guys trying to maul and rough each other up.
This is gonna be some high level fun violence. The
card also has Francisco Ronaldo, Marie Agapava, and Braxton Smith,

(52:02):
all UFC veterans. There's a couple other nuggets of intriguing
fights on this card. It's all free on YouTube Friday night,
so ain't no harm, Ain't no foul if you check
it out. You also have BKFC Fight Night if you
have the BKFC app or your Fubu Fubo TV. They're
from It's Michigan this weekend. Esteban Rodriguez versus Zach Cavender

(52:25):
too heavy hitting two hundred and five pounders, Top five
eliminador next probably the winner gets ranked. You also have
unbeaten Nathan Rivera. He's probably the biggest star on this car,
most potential at four and zero, he's looking to climb
the ranks to make his argument for a featherweight title fight.
The kid has some true box and skills, is nice

(52:47):
and slick. He takes on former title challenger Tommy Star
Drum from the South African Star Drums. I think that
this one, I bet to say South African Tommy Stardus,
so that just went the other way with it. I
think Carlisle appreciated that.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yes, that's good.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Your BKFC Fight Night main event and co main event
for this one, also on Friday night or yeah, also
on Friday night. I believe you jump over to Saturday
and we get our UFC Vegas one ten card. Carlile,
what times are we starting that one?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
At? Uh main card at seven pm Eastern time and
your prelims are at four pm Eastern the main event.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
We're getting two top fifteen ranked featherweights. I believe this
is twelve versus thirteen. Steve me Machine, Garcia David Onama
for not being a finisher. Onama, you will hear a
lot of people talk about it the guy hits hard.
Steve Garcia definitely hits hard as he's a finisher. There
are two guys I feel that are cut out of

(53:54):
a very similar mole. They're best when they're both being aggressive,
but they can move back. There guys that when they're grappling,
they're both looking to get on top. More of a
ground and pound threat and thundering ground and pound Garcia,
you have to watch out for those slicing elbows, so
menacing Onama. He hits hard early, he kind of tapers
off somewhere in the first round, and then this is

(54:16):
a guy that is usually digging down deep to make
a dramatic comeback in the third round. I think there's
a lot of intrigue about this fight. It's more intriguing
almost that these guys are both having to fight each
other instead of you would think still kind of climbing
that ladder to fight up. So still intrigued to see
what plays out with the featherweight division in the new year.
But it's two aggressive featherweights. A ten fight combined win streak.

(54:39):
Steve's won six in a row. We know that five
of them were knockouts. David o'ama four in a row.
I think that you look the experiences in Garcia's favor,
not to mention he's been doing this all his life
almost and I'm really inspired by a guy that's turned
over no stones left unturned. He's someone that very early
when I met him, was oh, I need to sharpen

(54:59):
my hand. I'm going to Danny Romero's jim Oh. I
was with Chris Latrell in this group. Oh, I think
I'm doing great. I want to move over to the
Jackson Wyn Jym to fully commit to stuff. And he's
always left no stone unturned, so I can only imagine
what he's done to prepare as I've seen his wrestling
game be more concentrated on for this fight camp. As
he heads into it, I think there's a lot of excitement,

(55:21):
probably a lot more than we have for the comain
event that's flying under the radar. But I wonder if
there's almost going to be a drop off and I
let a Genlealan drump as Anti Jalia takes on Waldo
Cortes a Coasta Dalia. It was such a big deal
coming over from the PFL, a former champion there. He

(55:41):
makes his debut with the UFC in France in the
Acor Arena in front of a wild, ruckus mega crowd.
This is the UFC experience. Now you're the comin event
in the Apex against Waldo cortes A Costa, and I
don't know if calling him an enigma of the division
is accurate, but it's hard to get a beat on

(56:02):
the former pitcher. He throws great overhands, he doesn't care
if you let kick him. His grappling defense seems to
steadily and crying and increase, and he has some tricky submissions.
But I don't know how consistent he is. And that's
the same thing with Dilia. Neither guy is consistent, but
both guys can be monsters when they're at their best.

(56:24):
So you could see a long, sluggish heavyweight fight or
you could see an early dramatic finish for one of them.
It's really a toss up.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
It's literally a toss up. If you look at the
odds on this, Corteza Costa minus one oh five favorite
and minus one fifteen favorite for Ants. So yeah, I
mean it's pretty much a toss up.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Unbeaten Yadier del Valli we jumped further down on that
main card. Yes, I skipped over Jeremiah well versus Thimbo
Garromo Garombo a year away coming back, He's probably the
better striker, but can he on the feet and knock
you out out wrestled by Jeremiah Wells for three rounds,
That's going to be a huge question because Wells is
like a He's a box with arms and just this

(57:12):
physical presence. That fight's a toss up. It's also interesting
to see where Yadiyol Davari, talented Cuban prospect, takes on
Isaac de Glegerian, a monster wrestler. That one under the radar,
but I think there's a bright future. I don't know
if it's gonna be the most exciting fight, but you

(57:32):
could see the winner really being on a path to
grow into being a prospect in that one hundred and
forty five pound division. Dante Johnson on being at six
and zero. He makes his debut lower down there on
the pre limbs. I was intrigued by his punch selection
on the Contender series. He now takes on a Sadrikris

(57:54):
Dumas that mostly Internet wonders, how does this guy keep
getting booked? That was my thault exactly so we'll see
if Dante Johnson can make a statement in his debut,
and I have to do it. I have to do it.
Carlisle Women's band Weight Action. This is a ranked matchup
buried down here on the card. We know that, as

(58:16):
I mentioned earlier, there's only a couple names that matter,
but this one is ranked, and Caitlin Vieira versus Norma
Dumont is a pivotal matchup in this division because eventually
we're gonna run out of these Amanda Caitlin Kayla matchups
and we might end up with one of these too.
Caitlyn Vieira, we've seen her in five round fights, but

(58:37):
we've seen her be sagnet low volume. The winner here
is the one that can hold the other on the
cage for longer. I think you get a little bit
better movement out of Norma Dumont, but there's not a
high level of volume of striking coming down to either
one of them, and I think that they're going to
nullify each other enough that it's not going to go
to the ground, So look forward to a lot of

(58:58):
clinch work there. That's why this one's buried, but it
is pivotal in the women's bandamweight division. Yeah. Also, I
think that you're going to see a knockout because Kevin
Christian and Billy al Kanana, they're two big two hundred
and five pounders. So I don't know if this is
gonna be the most technical stuff, but at least I

(59:20):
think there's gonna be some fireworks here. Will someone looks
too impressed inside of the apex. So this weekend, there's apex,
there's dirty boxing, there's knuckle boxing. I think you're gonna
see a lot of brawls this weekend is what we're
leading up to.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Exactly. Prelimbs for fight Night again four pm Eastern time ESPN,
plus your main card at seven pm Eastern time. Anything
else we need to hit on.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
You don't want to talk about more, go ahead. I
was gonna ask you did you have anything more about
John Jones Alex Pereira. I bring that up earlier, kind
of cut you off on it, kept you short.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
No, no, no, I don't know that it happens. We'll see.
I mean, I think it will be great. I think
the oppertit with with what happened on Saturday with Aspinall
and Gone. Obviously those two are gonna be attached for
a while longer. So if if John's really coming back

(01:00:14):
and you're gonna give him what he wants and put
him on the White House card, Alex Prayer is the
perfect opponent. I'm not convinced Dana is going to just
allow Alex to move up without having a long drawn
out conversation with with with Alex in his camp first,
we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
If you're Alex, you don't walk in that room without
the whole camp. You need the whole team so you
can stand strong and stand firm in your quest to
fight John Jones. I don't think it happens at the
White House. I don't think you can you can risk that.
I think they'd be more willing to put Connor McGregor
in that spot to feel that he would fulfill an
obligation rather than John Jones. So I think the John

(01:00:57):
Jones Alex parrified does happen. I just don't think it
happens at the White House.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
You're gonna kill me for bringing this up. But since
you brought up Connor, there is news about a potential
fight for a former opponent of Connor McGregor, which.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
One you did see all that yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
It was going crazy yesterday all the apparently Mike and
there is some legitimacy to this Floyd Mayweather at Mandy
paquil are in talks to run it back eleven years later.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I did see that. It's not the Connor McGregor part
of it. Why I didn't think we were gonna bring
it out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
No, I know, it's the I know. Yeah, But there was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Also a controversial stoppage and boxing in a heavyweight fight
this weekend. We didn't bring that up. There was a
title fight last weekend with Boots Ennis that we didn't
bring up. So they Mayweather stuff. Did I go so
far out of left field? I was like, I missed
a Nate Diaz announcement. I miss I was like I
saw Jose Although on Paramount calling Brazilian football the other day.

(01:02:12):
I knew it wasn't him taking a fight. I didn't
know where you were going with this. I we haven't
bring up but uh, maybe we did. Anderson Silva, Chris
Widman apparently the co main event for Tank Davis, Jake Paul.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
We had not brought that up. Uh, And I now
completely regret jokingly bringing up Floyd Mayweather Matty Pacquiao too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
All of it just makes me sad, is the point.
All of boxing just makes me sad.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
And that's kind of why I brought it up, because
it doesn't sound like this would be an exhibition, although
maybe it winds up being. But why would forty I
get why Pacquiao would do it, because hell, he's been
fighting on and off the whole goddamn time. But after
all these exits, ambitions and things like that, why would

(01:03:02):
at forty nine Mayweather? Why would he want to have another,
like actual real fight that could blemish his record?

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
He was about to jokingly exhibition ty Yeah, I don't.
I don't know what Floyd's focus is or where his
money eludes. I mean you could say him and Manny
are in talk Stafi. I guess because mann He's like, hey,
I really fight Still I don't know what that does.
And I don't know what executive at Netflix is watching

(01:03:32):
all this, like, yeah, this is how we're getting into boxing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
I oh, I do hold on that. One's the easiest
question of all. You look at what the boxing they've
done has done for them, the Paul Tyson and things
like that. This is right up there, Alley as far
as getting views now, how many real boxing fans are
you getting? I think that's a completely different conversation. But

(01:04:02):
I get why Netflix would be interested in doing this.
I just don't understand why anybody else is interested in it,
and I think that's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
The operative word. Is anyone else interested in it at
this point? I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
I don't sure, and I regret bringing it up now,
but I thought it was worth a chuckle. And to
mention mikeet tell everybody how they can keep up with
you man.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Over at cageminds dot com. We've got interviews going up
this week Steve Wee Machine Garcia of course ahead of
his main event fight, a bunch of other fun things.
Should join us for the next watch along, and also
be on the lookout for a brand new show, possibly
something live across social media. Also that we're going to
be bringing a little bit different name than what I

(01:04:47):
said last week, but we're still working on that. So
a lot of fun things. Cageminds dot com. It's Cage
Mindscombat Sports News on Facebook and YouTube, Cage Minds Underscore, CSN,
TikTok x, Instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Get the show on X at mm A after hours,
you can find me at real Mike Carlisle. We will
talk to you next week for another episode of m
M A After Hours here on the After Hours podcast Network.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Love combat Sports. I have a website for you, cageminds
dot com. That's c A g E D m I
n d s dot com. Fight news from around the world,
in depth interviews, live event coverage covering combat sports for
over a decade. Established in April twenty eleven, that's cageminds

(01:05:42):
dot com.