Ep 331: A Look Back At The Final UFC Event On ESPN. All The Latest News.

Episode 331: We look back at UFC Fight Night, the final UFC event on ESPN.  Does PFL have a Francis Ngannou problem? All the latest news,





















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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
What's up everybody? Welcome back to MMA after Hours. It's
Michael Carlisle and Micah Frankel.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Micah, how you.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Doing, man?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Wild and crazy like ever?

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Wild and crazy like ever? We had the final, final,
final UFC ESPN card from the Apex this past weekend.
Of course, UFC January twenty fourth starts the paramount era
of the company and coming off of the pay per
view a couple of weeks ago and then this past

(00:36):
week's Fight Night, the final two ESPN events. I'll say
this the main event maybe gave us a little something
we weren't quite expecting from the Apex on Saturday.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
I think I was expecting it. I was kind of
dreading it, but I was hopeful. I was fearful last
week because there was one part of me that said,
Manel Camp should be the favorite in this fight. He
is the favorite in this fight. Gosh, if we're all
picking him, this is so gonna bite us. And instead

(01:10):
he put on a performance that was the other way
injects him into a conversation that I thought it was
quite possible. We're not done talking about who could be
the biggest flyway attraction in Japan, because now we've got
two former Rizon champions going for the Young Interim Champion.

(01:31):
This was the optimal performance for one guy and unfortunately
the worst case scenario for another guy, but kind of
worked out the way everyone thought it was going.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
To the Young Interim Champion. What did I miss?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh? Sorry, World Champion? My bad?

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Okay, I've said, did we go back in ding Van
because Pantosia got hurt? Sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
There's so many interim titles flying around the UFC today,
I kind of get a little confused about whose interim,
who's BMF, and who's a champion. It's a little confusing.
We're moving boxes around right now as we're getting ready
to head to paramount, and I'm getting a little confused
if this one said interim or this one said undisputed, gotcha?

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Gotcha. Look, I'm not surprised that gep one. I'm surprised
it took him less than half a round and it
was quite as impressive as it was. But yeah, him
actually winning that in and of itself, I don't think
was a shocker. He earns the performance of the night
and look if the man is due. He looked, damn good, look.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Damn good in doing it. Manel Camp has really come
into his own from coming over from Rizen and having
the world championship, had agree under their promotion and stumbling
out of the gate, having issues with being put on
his back against Mohammed and Mukhayev. You wondered would he
be able to reach the form that the highlights were

(02:53):
producing on YouTube where we gonna be able to see
that guy, And now he has really transformed into being
that guy, into having that comfort level in the octagon.
And he's an odd character, but he is a killer
once you get him in that ring, in that cage,
whatever fighting surface he happens to be competing in. That

(03:14):
part was spectacular. Also, this is a statement maker. Brandon
Royval has been through wars. Brandon Royval. When we do
the year review for twenty twenty five, this thing is
going to be in the conversation with Fight of the
Years and to see someone that was able to go

(03:34):
with the champion, excuse me, the full champion. Let me
put the respect BAC on his name, Joshua Van in
a manner that Royval was able to for five rounds.
What does that say to you about Manalcamp takes him
out like you said it wasn't even a full round.
Speaks volumes about the power, about the way he was

(03:55):
able to put Royval in a situation that he wanted to.
Hugely impressed with Manel Camp just from those outsetting aspects
for sure.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Oh look, styles make fights. I don't think this was
necessarily a good matchup for roy Val, and Camp made
him pay, and certainly since his UFC time anyway, the
biggest win for Camp. And if you know, we're operating
on the assumption that Pantosia is going to be out

(04:25):
for a while and Van will make at least one
title defense before Pantosia comes back. You know, last week
I was dead set, Nope, nothing that happens on Saturday
is going to change this. It's going to be Tara.
I still feel that way, but I will acknowledge Camp
did everything he possibly could on Saturday to say Nope, Carlile,

(04:48):
you're wrong. I won't next. And here's why I should
get it. I do think it's going to be an
interesting decision for the UFC.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
It's an interesting decision because Manel Camp forced it, and
we'll look back at it. Was it the best idea
to want to trade in the pocket if you're royval
his kicking game needed to be more pronounced. If you're
this lengthy of a flyweight, the jab has to be
more effective. But to the credit, the body attacks the

(05:17):
cornering and then unleashing what was a picture perfect right hand,
because that was a fastball right down the pipe, I
mean cuts the guard in half. Royvall totally misses the
defense and it connects right into the glove on the chin. Basically,
that was a devastating right hand. I love the precision

(05:38):
that Camp is able to put together, able to display,
But what I don't love it's his marketability right for
a title fight right now, because I don't know if
the baby diapers are communicating with most of us. I'm
not even sure what the African born, Portugal raised Las

(05:59):
Vegas now resident was trying to communicate. He's an awkward
one on the mic.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
He's a little awkward. You shouldn't hold that against him,
but let's be honest, that'll be held against them a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Again.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
I still think Tara is next, just I don't see
a way around that. But if UFC decided to go
in a different direction, I wouldn't have a huge problem
with it.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Three knockouts in a row. Location location location matters a lot.
Here we'll talk about quoite Yoharagucci and why he's immediately
eliminated from this conversation. It's not like a bad thing,
but he's not really a part of the conversation at
the moment. As much as you and I last week
thought it was unlikely, I'm now hearing chatter online that

(06:56):
the UFC is Act actually actively scouting sites in Japan
for Q two. The thought that Tatsuya Tira, Manel Camp.
Each one has a history, each one has a name.
One of them is Japanese born, but one of them,
my same argument with Koijiharaguchi is a former world champion

(07:20):
in that country. I really do feel like it kind
of is a toss up who gets that next title fight.
But three knockouts in a row, it's hard to really
quantify between Tyra for me and Camp, which victory is
way more right now with three wins their solid wins

(07:43):
versus holy shit, Tyra just like man handled Brandon Moreno,
it's neck and neck for me.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Do you take away from Tara that all right? For
all the man handling of Moreno he did Reno's turning
around and fighting in two months.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Man, you're jumping the gun. You're jumping the gun. You're
jumping the gun.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Okay, No, My point was, was it that much of
a man handle. If dude's okay to fight in two months.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
That is a really great point the uf you're you're
you're gonna make me a conspiracy theorist though here because hey,
hey Brandon, it's fine that you got stopped. We really
actually needed them to do that, because now you're perfectly
healthy to go fight in Mexico two months later. All right,

(08:32):
hold on, that's where my brain goes. If we talk
about is Moreno that hurt, it's like, no, he's not,
and that just happens to work out perfectly to sell
a junkload of tickets in Mexico.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
All right, you brought up conspiracy theory. Fit, let's go
full conspiracy theory. What if the plan all along was
we'd really love for Moreno to win this, but if
he gets in trouble, if we if if it stopped early,
maybe he's okay and could turn around and fight in Mexico.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Lo and behold a lot of people after that.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Fight were complaining, hey, Moreno was defending himself. He was active.
This fight was stopped early. Look I like putting on
a tinfoil hat as much as anybody else. I don't
buy that for a second. Let says you brought up
conspiracy theory, and we were all talking after the fight,
how that might have been a little bit of an
early stoppage. You think maybe that was part of the plan.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
It just happens to work out for them. We could
put the tinfoil hat on and agree it all works out.
And that's where you start saying, Okay, to talk about
Japan makes sense, But what if that is we can
divert that talk about Japan. We have Koi Jiharagucci, we
have Manel Camp. Whether you're putting Tatsooja Tira in the
main event or not, you're like, well, we have three

(09:56):
well known Yes they are flyweight, but well known fly
weights from one area of the world. Why not strike
will the iron is hot and he either one of
the two. It feels like could get that next shot
at Joshua Van if you see he's only got one arm.
But Pantosia already back in the gym, already lifting weights

(10:19):
with whatever body part is healthy enough that man is
determined to get back sooner or later. But I really
do feel the UFC is pressing towards someone is fighting
for that belt. April May I was more intrigued by
the reports that they are scouting Japan for Q two.
That feels likely, like we're like, Oh, they're gonna hurry

(10:40):
up and get to Japan. Maybe they are. If they're
really looking Q two and making those offers.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
It's certainly possible. If it does, I think that's almost
certainly Tara, and I hear what you're saying about Camp
and all that, But assuming nobody's hurt, nobody has to
pull out, nobody's not ready to take the fight on
that timeline, it makes too much sense for it not
to be Tara.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
No money attached to a know nothing just Michael Carlisle opinion.
Which fight is more exciting the Nel Camp or Tatsuo
You Tira versus Joshua Van? Which one would you? You
just straight up you prefer to just watch for free
you get to see it. Which one you want to see?

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Hor Gucci, that was just I don't see that honestly
is being a possibility. Though he's too far down in
the rankings. You're really upsetting the Apple cart. To answer
your question, if you're doing it in Japan, Tara home crowd,

(11:49):
all that, all that, if you're doing it neutral site somewhere,
if you will, if you're doing it in the middle
of the country, if you're doing it in New York,
if your hell, if you're doing it in Vegas, maybe
it is Camp, but I think it's gonna be Tara.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
I'm just two explosive strikers like Van and Camp. I
just feel that that's a possibility for magic to happen,
a giant knockout to facilitate. I kind of understand what
the Tyra Van fight is gonna look at look at
every Tyra fight as he relentlessly chases the takedown. I'm

(12:28):
just for the most athetically appealing and marketing fight. I
think Camp might be easier to produce the highlights and
sell tickets on. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Look, we often after cards, especially after bigger cards, talk
about what's next for whomever and all that, and a
lot of times it's done for fun and to amuse
ourselves as much as anything else. The reality in this situation,
whoever doesn't get Joshua Van next may not get a

(12:57):
title shot. Depending on how things play, you assume after
a title defense, Pantosia is gonna be ready, which means
whomever doesn't get the shot against Van is going to
have to fight someone else almost certainly. Who knows what
happens there? Do things change? You know? Once Pantosia is

(13:18):
back and let's say he beats Van, then what so?
I do think it's very important for both these guys, again,
working on the assumption Joshua Van is doing a title
defense before Pantosia comes back. One of these guys is
gonna get their shot and the other one. Look, they

(13:39):
could certainly get it further down the line, but they
may wind up getting left out in the cold.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
You're right, because we'll jump around and talk about it's
the last show of the year. I'm gonna just have
fun and mix the segments altogether. February twenty eighth, the
UFC is in Mexico City and the main event it's
number four Brandon Moreno versus number seven. Assume Alabaia. On
top of that one, we also have February seventh, the

(14:07):
Fight Night in Vegas. The Cole Maane event is almir
Al Bazi number five versus Number eight koig Haragucci. There's
a real opportunity that the winner of one of those
two fights is fighting, quite possibly the guy that gainst
the short end of the stick on this title fight option.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
I Moreno would certainly be back in the conversation with.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
A win, But God forbid, Horagucci wins and.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Does it spectacularly, because all of a sudden he's gonna
jump up in the rankings. If you're seriously looking at Japan,
he gets thrown in the mix, and I think that's
two guys that Camp loses out to should this title
defense take place in Japan. So here's a yeah. I mean,

(15:00):
it gets really interesting.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Horragucci looks impressive. He could jump both of them. It's
Horror Gucci versus Van, and you could easily look at
the komain event being Camp versus Tyra. Maybe you all
get a fight on the same card, But it feels
less likely that we would see Horr Gucci versus Tyra.
I don't know if Japan would want to see two
of their favorite sons go against each other. More likely

(15:22):
that Camp and Van in some sort of way are
taking on Horror Gucci and Tyra. Should everything work out,
and like you said, Brandon Moreno beats a La Bayev.
He's at a main event fight. Hey, don't worry, it
was an early stoppage. Whether we're alluding to this just
works out perfectly for everybody or not. That victory puts
him back in the mix because he's Brandon Dan Moreno

(15:44):
and he's one fight away from always being in the mix,
or this is a really nice spot to retire, retire.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
I mean, look, anything's possible, but he's young, but he's old. Yes,
there's a lot of wear and tear on that body.
As long as you're in the mix. I don't know
that he walks away. I mean, look, maybe I'm wrong.
I'm not going to pretend it to be in the
head of Brandon Moreno. But he comes back with the win.
Even if that doesn't guarantee him a title shot, and

(16:14):
honestly it probably doesn't, but it keeps him right there
in the mix. I mean, hell, he's still top five
in the division. A win's only going to bump him up.
So yeah, I don't know, but it does make things
very interesting for sure.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
The flyweight division now has so many different storylines, so
many different directions, that it can go. Like you said,
the interestly level peaks, the amount of countries that are
supporting their big time fighters, and where this title goes,
how Pantosia's injury progresses. There are so many elements that
make this one of the most fun divisions in the

(16:50):
UFC right now?

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Does it complicate or make things easier? Should Van not
be successful in his first title defense, it's not against Pantosia.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
I love chaos. It makes things better if he wins,
because you now have this John Jones esque figure. We're
talking about like the second youngest champion in UFC history
now starting to take on these legends. That's what I
mean in John Jones esque figure, where you're now seeing
the same thing. Well Jones beat Showgun. Who's next for him?

(17:28):
After the title? Oh macheetah oh Rashad, you're saying, oh wait, no, man,
just beat Pantosia. He might have to see Hora Gucci,
he might have to see Camp, he might have to
see these guys that were recognized as world class flyweights
in other places. And then he's really able to attack
building a legacy that sounds anticing if he's able to
pull it off. If not, you have this whole generation.

(17:50):
There's a possibility truly of the first Japanese champion in
UFC history. That can't be short sighted now, No, very true,
very true.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
I think the flyweight division is going to be very
very interesting in twenty twenty six, no doubt about it.
And oh, by the way, barring some sort of setback
you mentioned it, Pantosia already back in the gym. He's
going to come looking for his title at some point
and he's going to get that title shot. Now. Will

(18:20):
he be able to capitalize on that? Quite possibly? Maybe not.
But if if we're mapping out tentative plans for the
flyweight division, that the title belt, you're probably looking somewhere
April May for a van defense and then August ish

(18:41):
Pantosia return.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Quite possibly, maybe a little later, maybe September October. We'll
see how quickly the injury goes. And who knows. Joshumavan.
We've already seen with Royvalle he's down with getting in
a war, So there's a possibility maybe there's a warning
up with some cuts and taking a couple months off.
We know the UFC likes to predict the calendar, but

(19:08):
this flyweight division, right now is so much fun to
be unpredictable.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
It really is, it really is, and certainly looking forward
to seeing what comes up with that in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yes, sir, Now on the other side, let's flip that coin.
He's fought nothing but rank competition his entire UFC tenure.
How fuck does Brandon roy Val that you just took
another loss. You're like looking, You're like, it's fifty to
fifty with him and Moreno, but now you're looking up

(19:43):
at some other guys. Van's got one on you, and
now we just have this loss. What's going on for
Brandon roy Val? How dire does this feel? Because it
feels pretty dire to me.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
It's, you know the old saying, beauty is in the
eye of the beholder. I guess it depends on how
you look at it. You're right, fights nothing but killers.
He's also two and three in his last five fights. Now,
this gets back to the beauty in the eye of
the beholder thing. Those three losses camp Van Pantosia, by

(20:17):
the way, wins against Mareno and Tara sprinkled in there.
So it's interesting. It's and I don't have Moreno's recent
fights pulled up in front of me. But I'm guessing
you're looking at something similar there. But we're talking about
Moreno being a win away from being right back in
the conversation and Reyval probably having some work to do. So, yeah,

(20:39):
it's unfortunate for Royval, but yeah, I think for the
short term he's on the outside looking in that they're
guys that have leap frogged him and he's probably going
to have to wait his turn.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Moreno on his strength, it's Albasi and Ursig in the
last two and it's unanimous to the detriment of Royval.
The Moreno and Tira victories his most recent are both splits,
so there's always that argument factor did he win him
did he lose them? There's splits.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
You know what, if you want to just go last five,
I would tell you Royval has the more impressive resume.
They're both two and three. Yes, Moreno's three losses Pantosia, Royval, Tara.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
His two wins are Ersig and Albosi.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Not not disrespecting, but I would I would say at
the very least Royval and Moreno's last five are equal.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
I would give the edge to Royval.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
But that being said, moreno bigger name, more accomplished. He's
going to give that benefit of the doubt that that
Royval's not going to And to.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
The matter of absolutely fucking nothing, because we know how
to use who feels about the rankings? Ass Arman, Sorry
Yuki in roy Val still ahead amore Reino at four,
dropping down to Camp jumps up four to number two.
So Camp is ahead of Tyra in what the non
official who gives a shit? These aren't the UFC matchmaker

(22:19):
rankings tell us from the website. So there is that.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Also there is I wouldn't put a whole lot of
stock into that, but it is worth noting because that's
really what we have to base things on until the
matchmakers make their decision. So yeah, I don't discount it,
but I don't put a lot of stock into it either.
As you said, ask armand Serukian about that.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Now in the featherweight division, we have a new entrant
into the top fifteen. He comes in at thirteen, Kevin Vijayos,
who put together a spit tacular finished. But for my money,
I want to be honest because we're gonna give a
lot of praise to him. He lost that first round Giga,

(23:07):
Chikatse got caught. He's showing the signs of aging. But
I'll give it to the man. I think he won
the first round even though he split both of his
legs open. He was throwing them so hard.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, I I knew.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Look, chikat came in as the underdog.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
I thought he was going to get the win though,
so hey impressed right there. Not the greatest of first rounds,
as you pointed out, but man Kevin came back in
the second round and boom. So yes, not as an
impressive win as you had from camping in the main event,

(23:48):
for sure, but certainly a statement win nonetheless, and like
you said, pops up in the rankings.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Now tight technical the defense. He absorbed a lot of
those kicks off the arms. He was a use the
right hand to back up. Chikatse took advantage of a
tendency on the way that Giga exits out through the
beautiful spinning back fist and then he is so fast.

(24:13):
I love that right hand. As Jakatse is plumbing, then
you get the elbows on the ground. Beautiful finish, never
giving Chikatse and Mill a second to recover at all.
Killer finish. But the one similarity that I wish Villejos
would change from his night because it was too similar

(24:36):
to mannel Camp is come up with a better call out,
because that was Baby Diaper's itself too. Calling out Cub
Swanson who's been retired for over a year and now
you're coming in at number thirteen. There's some other names
on the card, and if you want a striker, I
think there was one also on the main card that
pulled off a spectacular headkick who you could have called out.

(24:58):
I don't know if we needed to go with a
guy that's uh been retired for over a year now.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Not the best call out, And look, I get it,
you want your fighter focused on the fight and not
looking ahead. But at least between the time the decision
was announced and a microphone goes in his face, somebody
whispers in his ear, this is who you want to

(25:25):
call out, This is who you want to call it.
Call out this one, this one or this one. Don't
call out the guy who, for all intents and purposes,
is retired.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Call out Danny Gey call out, Patrecio Putbull, call out
Josh emmittt. You could have those names locked and loaded
known entities a little bit older cats who also have
a propensity to like to throw the hands. All those
would have fit the requisite requirement of that call out.
You were looking for an older guy that wants to
bang boom right there, those are names in the rankings.

(25:56):
Would have worked out for v j O's he dropped
the ball and a huge opportunity.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Assuming Brian Ortega is going to stay at featherweight, I
would have called him out in a heart because that's
a name and by the way, currently ranked higher than
those names you mentioned at nine. Yeah, I would have
shot my shot. Not that Emmit or pit Bull would
have been bad choices either, but call your dad. Don't

(26:21):
call off the guy who hasn't foughten over a year
and may not be fighting anymore. That doesn't seem the
way to sell your sizzle with a win that you
had to know was probably going to get you in
the rankings.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Brian Ortega's book to fight hanatamay Kano in his lightweight Davy,
that's right. I think UFC three twenty four, UC three
twenty five one of the next upcoming pay per views. Sorry,
I don't have a right in front of me, everybody,
but that number nine. There should not be there. He
has exited the division finally officially. We can all kind
of breathe a sigh of relief that he won't be

(26:56):
trying to cut that extra weight for sure. For sure,
I already break him up. Melchizaua Costa the left head cook.
I thought this was a fifty to fifty fight. So
did the odds makers. He said, fifty to fifty. F
that shit and absolutely blast Morgan Sharier. That is five
in a row for Costa. I don't know what's next

(27:18):
for him, but man, if he wants to fight with
a j host, that would be action personified for a
Fight Night main event. He is on the way at
this point.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Very impressive when no doubt about that.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Now. On the way is an interesting term I just said,
because maybe on the way how Marcus Mushecha acclaim Brazilian
jiu Jitsu world champion came to MMA with high expectations.
A lot of people had those for him. His grappling
looks like baby diapers. To continue with the theme of
the fight of the day, and he cannot take damage.

(27:56):
The fight was rightfully scored to draw. Maybe do you
think Kenny should have been deducted another point for all
the reworkings of the cage. I mean, I don't know
if he thought it was uneven. He's kept grabbing and
pulling it.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Maybe.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Here's what I do know.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
UFC matchmakers might want to reevaluate some stuff because this
is back to back cards. You had draws on now,
two different fights in two different weight classes, with two
different sets of circumstances, a level of fighters, rankings wise
and all that. But you go months and months and
months and months and months without seeing draws, and we've

(28:35):
got in draws in.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Back to back weeks.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Dumb luck or bad matchmaking, meteor showers, okay, fair enough.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Shit happens in here sometimes, like a ref scoring the
fight for Lance Gibson. I don't know how you find
two rounds in the opening fight of the main card
against I don't know how you find two rounds in
there for Lance Gibson. You got to take down early,

(29:06):
didn't do a lot with it. Green was landing big strikes,
takedown late. I thought that was a great night for
King Green, even with the knockdown included. Didn't see that
being a split.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Here's why I don't have a problem with that. You
had another judge that scored the first round for him
and another judge that scored the second round for him,
so that the other judge just scored both rounds for him.
So my point is, and I get why you're saying,
I actually agree with you, but the judges actually saw
it similarly, just the other two didn't have it in

(29:40):
him to give him both rounds.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Interesting that scoring I not one of the ones I
would have went with. So the main card fun. Also
Sisari only Alonchak good luck to him because it appeared
that he was on crutches after his unanimous decision debut victory,
So hopefully that's not too bad, doesn't hamper his career

(30:04):
too bad. And then in the feature pre lim Yaroslav.
I've heard it as Amoslav for years, and then all
of a sudden, Fitzgeral is telling it's m Osov. Well,
Imosov gets a submission win. He passes the Magni test.

(30:25):
We know that is a hard one on most welterweights,
and once it was to the ground, it was like
a hot knife through butter.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
You passed the Magni test onto the next one.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yaroslav. I think he has potential there in the top fifteen,
but I don't know if it's top five. He is
a monster grappler, but he is not the fastest cap now.
Also early on in the card, we got to keep
up with the theme. We mentioned the sloppy draw earlier,
one of our themes of the year. We need more heavyweights,

(31:01):
and at least here we saw the debut of two
very successfully one who's having a life redemption story, Steven
Asplin breaking records, showing off the determination to drop down
from over five hundred pounds out one point in his life,
and he put a pace on Sean's sheriff that I

(31:21):
don't think many heavyweights could duplicate.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Or handle five hundred pounds.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Five hundred pounds now to two sixty five and the
man puts out one hundred and thirty strikes or one
hundred and fifty fights in a two round knockout. We're
talking about nine minutes. He even get the full ten
minutes to put this kind of offense together. I don't
know if we're looking at a true contender, but we
definitely have a fun story on our hands and someone

(31:50):
that's willing to get in there and entertain and in
the same no, you have Galerme Pat who definitely has
a different body type but a very precise job. It
was able to keep his distance, showing a very composed
striking game in handling, and Alan Frey that was looking
for every takedown he possibly could and had nothing but
his face being met with damage.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Did any of the three heavyweight fights give you any
reason to be cautiously optimistic about the rebirth, if you will,
of the heavyweight division?

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Cautiously optimistic is a good way to put those two
fighters from the prelambs. As Blunt comes from a family
of fighters, he obviously has a work ethic determination for
the fight game. Glerman Patt looks like a million dollars,
I mean a good at reason that any to have
hope from those two as we look at that top one. No,

(32:42):
not a lot of hope overall, but just to say it,
it's not a high level of skills, but we've got
to start from somewhere to rebuild this heavyweight division. And
this car gave me as much hope as any did
throughout the year.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Okay, fair enough, fair enough and again the final ESPN
card goes out in the Apex January twenty fourth, and
next UFC event, and that will be on Paramount Plus.
We spent a lot of time after the pay per
view talking about the ESPN era, but we can put

(33:18):
a bow on it. I think UFC and I think
they're better off. I also don't think there's the new
ESPN streaming platform were it not for the partnership with
with UFC and how they grew plus.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
So I think it was.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
A win win for everyone, and now UFC is off
to greener pastures. I don't know how that works out
well long term for ESPN. We'll find out, I guess,
but certainly the move to ESPN was a good one
for UFC, and they parlay that into an even bigger
deal with Paramount.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
There are so many layers to this because I've heard
a lot of people throw out their columns, their feelings,
their thoughts. There's a lot of numbers flying around. Also,
the effect of losing UFC is easily feelable because I
think I saw a statistic that just this week ESPN

(34:19):
and Plus lost three hundred thousand subscribers and Peramunk grabbed
about three hundred to four hundred thousand subscribers. So the
UFC American fan base quickly migrated. But the bigger question
that that then proposes is it was a bigger platform.

(34:39):
This was the ultimate of sport to be on ESPN.
It validated the UFC in a way that they're on
the same ectalt as the major sports leagues and boxing itself.
To be on ESPN, that in itself is momentous. But
did that relationship actually generate more fans? I don't know,

(35:00):
benefited in that way if nothing else. I've seen The
theory being thrown out by some people is did the
UFC just find a way to buckle down on the
hardcore to make more money off of the fans that
they have instead of this relationship generating new fans. I
don't know, because it looks like there's about six hundred

(35:23):
thousand of US in America, and that's what it is
right now. And I'm not sure in the Spike era
of the Fox Sports era, if we knew that number,
if it was greater or less.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Than Oh, I think it definitely grew. Now how much
I don't know that we could pinpoint, but it almost
had to you. You say there's six hundred thousand of
US here in America, and I get how you and

(35:54):
others get to that, but those same six hundred thousand
people continue to sell out every arena of the the.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
UFC goes too.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
They continue to buy every single pay per view that
they I don't totally buy that now, it may not
be that much greater than that number, but yeah, I
think it almost had to grow it just because the
sport continues to grow. And yes, ticket prices, pay per
view prices continue to go up as well. So if

(36:25):
you just hold the same number, then at higher prices
you're going to make more money. But I do think
there was growth. You're right that being affiliated with ESPN
legitimized them in a way that they had not been
legitimized previously, and something that they definitely wanted. It's also

(36:46):
something that's no longer needed in this day and age.
The way the streaming world works, you go to the
biggest streaming platform who's willing to offer you the biggest money,
whether that's Paramount, whether that's Netflix, whether that's Prime, whether
that's Disney, whether that's ESPN, or go on and on
and on.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
I think the sport grew.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
I think UFC is better for it, and I think
at least going into Paramount, they're better for that deal
as well. Well, you know, we can re evaluate that
deal more as it's coming to an end, or it
gets re upped, or whatever winds up happening there.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
It'll be interesting to see now moving over to that
other platform that is now starting to become a sports platform,
It'll be interesting to see does the sport grow anymore,
because now you're literally introducing it to a new audience.
Being on paramount A lot of the people they're looking
at dramas, they're looking at traditional TV. The NFL just

(37:47):
became available on that app, I believe this year with
some games. So it's not your traditional sports entertainment audience.
It's a new audience. I wonder if the sport does
grow or if this is just transferring where us to
hardcorees we're watching it to another place, because how much

(38:07):
how many more people could not could get introduced to
the UFC, not and on about football having came from
the Fox relationship, the ESPN relationship, It shouldn't be new
to a lot of the sports fans. It's not.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
But if you're in the past, you've had to pick
and choose. I'm gonna buy two pay per views a year.
I'm gonna buy three pay per views. Hell, even if
you said I'll buy six pay per views a year
roughly half. Well, now for your regular subscription you get
every fucking pay per view. So from a streaming standpoint,

(38:41):
the pay per view numbers are going to go up
dramatically short term anyway, Does it continue to go up?

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Do you continue to.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Grow off of that? You know that's going to be
the challenge for Paramount and for UFC. But for what
you were paying for plus roughly you now get all
the event events, including the numbered events. The are we
calling them premium live events now? But like WWE does,
until somebody comes up with something better, let's just refer

(39:11):
to them that way.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
They're all gonna be free.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
So unless you're just putting on an absolute plunker of
a card, you should be getting pretty significant pay per
view numbers premium live event numbers. If you're UFC, at
least in the early going.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
I agree with you, But based on the ESPN plus model,
it's been a while since those numbers have been readily available.
Much like depending on which boxing streaming service you look at,
some like to throw their numbers out there and some
don't say at all. So it's just left for us
to guess. So it'll be interesting to see which direction,

(39:52):
also on that avenue Paramount decides to take. Are they
gonna boost their numbers out there to show us to
them all the time, Hey we got a million viewers?
Is this first one? Or do they keep them because
a lot of the streamers keep their numbers very true.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Look, honestly, at the end of the day, as long
as those checks clear, that's all that matters. But I
hear you will we be able to point out to
numbers and say, oh, this pay per view got this
many streams, this one got that many streams. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
We'll have to find out on that, but.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Certainly Paramount believes in this or they wouldn't have dropped
the money that they did to get UFC. They're very
confident that they're going to grow their subscription database and
keep those people around.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
So we'll see how that plays out. It's definitely a
bright future, a lot of possibilities for Paramount, for CBS,
for the UFC moving into the future, and it definitely
was a crucial element in the history the legacy of
the UFC to have had that relationship with ESPN, to

(41:04):
get them to where they are today.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Speaking of the future, Micah, I know I probably stole
your thunder on one or two, but you got some
fight announcements for us.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
The first fight night of the year in Las Vegas
at the Apex is gonna be February seventh, and Mario
Batista versus Venisius Lope dog ola Vera is gonna be
the main event. First, I just want your reaction on
that one nine versus twelve.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
It'll be a banger.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
It's two top fifteen bantam weights both looking to move up.
This seems like this is a good opportunity for ola
Vera should he be victorious.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
But I do like the matchup. I like the that context,
we have the ultimate opportunity to break into the top
ten for Olavera, and from a stylistic perspective, I really
do like this matchup in the Mario Batista favor because
his cardio, his ability to hit takedowns. Olavera's hands are

(42:12):
so low every time he fights, he's so excited. This
might be the kind of matchup though, that gives him fits.
We already mentioned it a mere al Basi Koig Kurugucci
does this fight happen. Yes, bringing that up because our

(42:32):
mere al Bosi has Unfortunately, guys, this is not like
a joke, but unfortunately the injuries other things outside of
fighting have kept him from fighting. So it's almost a
I'll beware, not he's gonna miss wait, but shit, I
hope he can make it to the octagon healthy. This
card is ridiculous. They already announced a lot of it.
H Gene Matsumoto, Farid bosherat seventeen to one versus fourteen

(42:56):
and h bantam weight. That one on the prelimpse is
probably gonna be one that is gonna stand out among
the card. Not to mention, we get to Wing Kung
on the night when she takes on Eduardo Mara, so
a couple nice ones there for the first fight night
in the APEX. On top of that, now we have

(43:17):
the announcement that the UFC the Toyota Center the return
to Houston on February twenty first Sean Strickland, Anthony Fluffy Hernandez.
That's three versus four in the middleweight division. We also
know Macy Chesson, Aileen Pattis rank women's band weights also

(43:38):
added to that card. Could this be a last stand
for Sean Strickland.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
As a legit title contender.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yes, yes, could be.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
I think not comparing him to these fighters, but I
think as long as he wants to keep fighting, he
can be in that Nate Diez Masvidal winner.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
But point that the winner lose.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
I'm gonna talk shit, and people are gonna want to
see me fight. They either want to see me knock
somebody out or see me get knocked out. So I
think he's always gonna have that drawing power, but a
loss here probably permanently removes him from legit title contention.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
On the flip side, do you think that Anthony Hernandez,
is this the one that gets you a title fight?

Speaker 1 (44:34):
It gets him a strong ass argument for a title fight.
I think there might be a couple of guys ahead
of him that that would argue they should be next.
But a win and an impressive win, he can stay
his lane.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Bringing that up. How much stock do you put into
it or how much does it just feel unrealistic or
actually I'm gonna that thought. Shit, Sorry, I know you're
gonna hate me for this. I'm gonna hold that thought
because this is gonna lead us down somewhere Jacoby Smith.
See whoon Okay is a fight between well to weight prospects.
Jacoby Smith must be highlighted. That guy is gonna make

(45:13):
noise next year. That's the only other fight I wanted
to mention, getting back to that thought process. We're highlighting
these guys, We're moving them forward. Is there gonna be
a problem with champions wanting to jump weight classes in
jump sports? Illiot Saporia has a lot going on in

(45:34):
his personal life, but he did take the time out
at some point recently to tell someone I can only
see myself fighting in MMA one or two more times
before going to boxing HAMSA team I have says I
can only see myself fighting at middleweight one more time
before going to light heavyweight. Is there an issue with
the UFC building these stars in these weight classes and

(45:55):
we get built up for these rivalries, these contender fights,
these other matchups, and apparently these guys have much other
short term plans in mind to not do any of
that stuff. Well, the moving up.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
In weight is always going to be an issue to
a certain degree. UFC can control that, at least make
it happen on their terms. I would argue, first of all,
I to Poria wanting to box, let's get back into

(46:28):
octagon first. But that may not be the problem it
once was with TKO Boxing's first event coming up in January,
in UFC itself or TKO having a bigger hand in
the boxing world. If you're really dead set on boxing
and Dana can't talk you out of it, well fine,

(46:49):
you're gonna box for us. So maybe that's not a problem.
Now I realized Toporia probably doesn't want to box just
for the sake of boxing. There's specific opponents he has
in mind that maybe TKO would or would not want
to partner up with be able to partner up with,
so that could complicate things. But is Taporia or anybody

(47:11):
else as long as UFC has them under control that
they're not going they can want a box all they won't,
but they're not.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Gonna be able to without the US. He's okay. Just
feel like from the fan perspective, it's a little harder
to get invested in the championship rain if Toporia is
already fantasizing about mahashev at Welterweade and you wonder it's

(47:39):
the gay chee E pimblet winner even going to really
fight to Poria, could he try to level leverage up
to welterweight or if you're a Mahasha, if you're like, Wow,
what's it going to be like for him to fight
Strickland hernandez a Movov. Those have been matchups that we've
been like waiting all year to see. It feels a
little harder than to get invested in guy when you're like, well,

(48:01):
how long are they really gonna tempt us with sticking
around in the division. They're willing to call their other names,
they're willing to talk shit, they're willing to say I'll
fight anybody any day of the week, and then you
see them once in a dominating fashion and they're not
willing to fight again for eight months.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
You want a hot take before we get to January
twenty four, Pemblic Gaichee, The interim comes off of that match?

Speaker 2 (48:24):
You think the interim comes off of that match?

Speaker 1 (48:27):
I think it's very possible. I think if there had
been bigger backlash to an interim title fight being the
main event on a card that had Kayla Harrison and
Amanda Nunez for the bandamweight title, I think it would
have already come off I think there's a real possibility
to Poria does not fight in twenty twenty six, and

(48:47):
deep down he knows it. And I also think if
that's going to be the case, there's a possibility when
Taporia comes back, it ain't gonna be a lightweight anyway,
and deep down he knows that. In UFC no that
so depending on how things go for him and his
personal situation, which he talked about on social media over
the last couple of days, depending on how that plays

(49:09):
out over the next couple of weeks before we get
to the twenty fourth of January, I would not be
shocked if the interim tag does not come off of that.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
There's something about armins or Yukians, mystery disciplinarian actions that
are being taken towards him from the UFC that you're
still just there with Pimblet and kai Chie and it's
a fine fight. And when you look you learn that
there's a lot going on in circumstances and divorce and

(49:42):
alleged blackmail and domestic violence, all kinds of things coming
up for Iliots Aporia. You can understand why he is
nowhere near fighting shape right now, even though he probably
was offered the opportunity to true, so should he feel
cool doing it? It still feels weird that that we're

(50:03):
kind of backdooring into this world title fight that, as
you said, could be a world title fight. But in
no way do you feel like any of the probably
best three lightweights in the world who have fought him
at lightweight in the last year and a half are
actually a part of this fight. It's just a weird

(50:23):
circumstance that you're like, well, fuck man, this is an
interim title place because this is the ultimate silver medal
of the lightweight division. Ever. Yeah, a couple things on that.
I think if you have an ankling to Poory is
going to be out longer than.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Anticipated, and he wants to move up when he comes
back based on the length to time he's going to
be gone. It's anti climactic afterwards to take the interim
off of the belt. Whoever wins between Patty and Gage,
we just saw that with aspinall, something they didn't want
to do, but John retiring and unretiring kind of forced

(50:59):
their hand on that. I don't think you want to
go down that road again if you can help it.
That's why I think that happens. The Serukian thing, Let's
be really honest. It's not a mystery. Now. Is it
based in fact or is it based on suspicion or
what UFC thinks. That's certainly debatable, but it's not a mystery.
They do not believe Armin Serukian was really injured when

(51:21):
he pulled out of that fight. They think there was
something else going on. Either he didn't take the weight
cut serious, or he was having weightcut problems and wasn't
going to be able to make the weight so he
fabricated the injury. Now is there truth in that?

Speaker 2 (51:35):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
I wasn't there, I wasn't backstage. I don't know, But
I really don't think it's a mystery. Based on how
things have played out, is it accurate, Is it based
in fact? Is it based an opinion? That is certainly debatable,
and I don't have the answer to that. But based
on how things have played out, based on what Dana said,

(51:56):
because we've seen fighters missweight before I brought it last week,
olivera was the fucking champion missed weight and was stripped
of the title.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
They haven't held that against him.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
I firmly believe they think Serukian was faking the back injury.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Oh oh wait, we're actually all good. Armin Siryukian has
a title fight, He's good, He's booked for one. Hype
Armenia Grappling Championship about Armin Sarayuki in Shaa bullet.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yeah, I'm sure Serukian feels just as good about that
as if he had not been left out of the
interim lightweight title picture.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Who knows what he feels, but he doesn't feel like
the UFC and him are any a symbiotic, loving relationship, right,
But I mean, there's no other explanation, right.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
They have to believe he was not really injured, or
that it was not nearly as significant as he made
it out to be, and he could have been should
have went out there again, whether that's fair or accurate,
that has.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
To be what they believe, right. Dana White said, he knows.
I know, we know, they know. Only people that don't
know are all of us that watch. So supposedly this
all makes sense behind closed doors, even though I'd like
for it to just make a little more sense in public.
I'm not sure wherever gonna get it. Just like we know,

(53:23):
we're not getting Alex Ferreira at the White House of
all the names that have thrown their names in the hat.
In a recent interview, Alex, let's let's keep it short.
I'm looking to you the full quote. It ain't happening
for him. He's not doing it. He knows that his
plans for the year lie elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
I don't think we know that for sure. I think
you're probably right Alex himself social media.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Here's the quote.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
I'll say it because it's short and simple. Looks like
the White House is a no go and that was
the end of it. Look, everybody, he can't be on
the White House card. Despite what the President said, you
can't have more title fights on that fucking card than
there are a weight classes with titles. So the whole
eight or nine champions thing was never gonna happen. The

(54:14):
reality is you're not selling tickets for this event that
you're building a fucking mini stadium for. So Yes, it's
a big event, Yes you want to show out, but
you still got stuff for the rest.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Of the year that you got to book out. Everybody
can't be on that card.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
If Alex is not on the White House card, I
think we see him before the White House or shortly thereafter.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
I don't think we're going to go a long.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Period of time without seeing him. Even if you're right
it does appear from his mouth, he will not be
at the White House.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
He'll be fighting in Q two. Let's be honest. They
keep him active, they keep him going. I was reluctant
hoping we just went and see him in Q one
for the best of Alex and get him some recovery
and some time out there. So I'm guessing Q two, yep.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
I would agree with you on that, stepping away from
the UFC for a second, but keeping it with Mma
Francis and Ganhu the biggest signing, least active person in
the history of PFL, maybe stepping into the PFL cage
again sooner rather than later.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
I am going to disagree with you, Jake Paul was
under contract to and that motherfucker too. Well, that's you
know what, that's a fair point. That's a fair point.
I'm not trying to make this a big old war.
But you're like the least active. I'm like, no, I
could give you one more.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Because because he's specifically when they signed him, specifically said he.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Was going to fight and yeah, so, yeah, all right,
you're right on that.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
I stand corrected.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Didn't do it, didn't do it at all. But Francis
and Ghanu, Dana, why where the smoke? There's fire? And
Dana White originally no, never, no never, not no never,
he was about to burn down your village if you
brought up the name Francis and Kanu, and those screams
and vigorous attacks at the words on his name have

(56:14):
have lessened all the way to where Dana almost recounted
his story of a physical encounter between himself and Francis
when they disagreed about a postfight bonus. Instead of being pushed,
now it sounds like it was more kind of just
stuck his hand out in front of Daana and stopped
Dana from walking by him, rather than grabbing him, putting

(56:35):
his actual hands fully on him. And according to Francis,
his PFL contract runs out before the White House card.
Whether they ever get him in the cage again or not,
I don't think we see Francis back in the UFC.
But strangers should have happened, and I feel like there

(56:57):
is a better opportunity now then there was that I
ever believed there was going to be.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
I'm still gonna leave. Look, you never say never in
this business. I'm gonna lean towards no. Because if Dana
White thought there was any chance of getting Francis and
Ghanu back, I don't think he brings up the whole
physical altercation, even if that has been walked back some
since then, I don't think that happens. Also, I think
there's still some question over what exactly in ghan Who's

(57:31):
deal with PFL is, because he still has one fight
left on that contract. Now, is there a time limit
on when that fight has to be booked? Maybe there is.
That certainly wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.
But it sounds like listening to in Ghanu talk and

(57:52):
listening to the PFL that for better or for worse,
we're gonna get in Ghanu and Nenkov, who just won
that the PFL heavyweight title, We're gonna get them sometime
early in twenty twenty six, if all goes according to plan.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I don't know. If all goes according to plan, it
may not. They say it, but and Nemkov said it.
Nemkov made the call out that was his choice. He
wanted the Anganu fight that's what he's calling for after
winning the inaugural PFL actual World Heavyweight title. The mor
season titles, no more super Fright titles, they're actual heavyweight champion,

(58:33):
Vedeem Nemkov. I don't know if it happens or not.
I I almost lean towards we're not gonna see Francis
and Kanu in MMA ever again. He's gonna wait his
PFL contract out. However long that takes. The UFC isn't
gonna bite, and we'll eventually see him in another exhibition
boxing match of some sort.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Look, that's very possible as well. By the way, in
case you were wondering, were of twenty twenty four is
the last time we've seen Francis and Ganu in MMA.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
It was one fight in the PFL hen in Faheta.
Wasn't even a hard fight. He looked dominant, he looked great.
They're paying him what they offered him. I can't understand
why he hasn't racked up fights, why he hasn't wanted
to just even though there's secondary names, just rack up
a dominant run to absorb more money. I mean, these

(59:29):
were low risk, high reward fights. That's been the most
surprising of me for Francis and Ghana is that he's
willingly been this inactive and that's where it's the money's
been made in boxing. He returns to boxing, he doesn't
have interest in MMA.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Well, I think he has interest in money, and there's
nothing wrong with that. I think from his standpoint, PFL
didn't have anything to offer him. He was gonna get
paid anyway, so he wasn't sweating it that much. You said,
exhibition boxing are back to boxing after this. I think

(01:00:06):
that is far more likely than him Mary's signing with UFC.
If the stars aligned and you could bring him back
to fight at John Jones, I think UFC would be
interested in that. I don't know that those stars align.
You can't get John to fight guys currently on the roster,
so I don't know that that's really a possibility. So

(01:00:30):
why do you bring back another aging heavyweight for a
division that you're looking for. You're definitely looking to give
it a shot in the arm, and in the right situation,
Francis could certainly do that, but he's what thirty nine
years old.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Without a Jones there, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
That you're paying him what he's looking for to fight
Tom Aspinall, So yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
I think a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Things would have to fall into place for a USC
return to happen. I wouldn't close the door on it,
but I wouldn't bank on it either.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
We have Jones one foot in, one foot out, we
have Aspinall, and then there's Surreal gone hell. Yeah. From
a theoretical standpoint, the UFC needs Francis and Ganu. Heavyweights
age the slowest in MMA. He's thirty nine, give him
the forty four before he's not viable anymore. It's not
like he's accumulated rough mileage in these last few years.

(01:01:24):
He's not Brandon Moreno Brand and Roy Vall that we
were talking about earlier in the year, with all these
hillacious fights. A lot of the fights have just been
these quick, vicious knockouts. The UFC from that perspective, if
it's outside of the Dana White and Hunter Campbell and
who knows how the relationships interpersonally are with Francis and

(01:01:45):
Ganu from just having another heavyweight. We need more heavyweights.
That is the moniker of our show this year. We
need more heavyweights. I would take Francis and Ghanu, depending
on the price tag.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Well, and see that's where it gets complicated. I'm with you, Yes, yes,
you take Francis and Ganu in a heartbeat. You're not
paying him that kind of money to fight Surreal Gon
or Alexander Volkov or Sergey Pavlovich or Curtis Blades or
Waldo Cortes a Coaster or Jaydon Almeida or Spivak again,

(01:02:18):
if you could book him and John Winner gets aspinall
something like that. Yes, I don't see that happening. So
that's why I say, Noah on Anganu. But you're not
bringing him back to rule over a division of Volkov,
Pavlovich Blades. You'd bring it back for Jones help. We

(01:02:38):
don't even know what the fuck Aspinaul's status is with
the eye injury. We assume he'll be back sooner rather
than later, but that may or may not be the
case if you take him out of the equation. It's
certainly from a financial standpoint, doesn't make a lot of
sense to bring in Gandu back. And I think that's
where it gets complicated. If you're just telling me the fighter,

(01:02:59):
all things being equal, Fuck, yes, we're bringing Francis and
got you back you look at the money, you look
at the opponents you've got to offer him. I think
you just stand clear and figure out another way to
try to rejuvenate the heavyweight division.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Anyweight division sucks, and there's the name to REJUVENI it.
I mean, we're looking and we talked about it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
But but but does it rejuvenate it? If it's his
big fight return to UFC is Pavlovitch and I'm knocking.
I'm not knocking, sirgay, but but I mean, if it's
Alexander Volkov, if it's surreal, I would argue it doesn't.
And maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
If you look at the way that Kevin Askepell and
just one and the way that gerlerme Pat just won,
they're on a trajectory to be cut when they're six
and one and end up back in the third ring
circus that they came from before. Remember Martin Bunde having
dominance over the division and getting set back to octagon
well fight for their heavyweight title at the end of

(01:04:02):
this year. That's why give me a proven commodity over
a young commodity, because I don't know if they're gonna
like that young COMMODI even if that young commodity is victorious.
That's the other reason why I'm on board with the
Francis Anganu, because they can't tell me that they're gonna
like any of the young guys if they're not successful
in the manner that they want them to be with

(01:04:22):
the physique that they want them to have.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Speaking of three ring circuses, we would be remiss if
we did not mention Micah. This Friday on Netflix, Jake
Paul takes on Anthony Joshua.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Man. You love you some, Jake Paul. I do not, but.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
I am fascinated that this man can continue to draw
the streaming numbers he does and make the money he
does boxing and finding willing opponents that'll play the game.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Willing components that will play the game. There's a lot
of money attached to the game. And again that's where
those whole Dezone does not release any streaming numbers. Makes
it really interesting because we're awaiting the revival of boxing
from TKO, which is a subsidiary of Ring, and we
haven't talked much about Ring over the last two weeks.
And it's not like they ain't just throwing money around.

(01:05:16):
They paid almost four million dollars for Lamont Roach Junior
versus Isaac Cruz. They paid over six million dollars to
have David Benevetaz go down to Saudi Arabia. We just
don't know how much streaming, how many eyes are actually
generated on these events, which will actually be a subsidiary
to the next biggest player in boxing. That's where again

(01:05:38):
boxing is strange and Netflix is the only one that reports.
So yeah, Jake Paul is a big draw. The kids
love some Jake Paul, and the fact that it comes
free with your Netflix subscription without an extra paywall. You
just got to have the basic shit generates a lot.
The only thing that still kind of confuses me about
this one is does this fight matter? Because last time

(01:06:00):
I checked, Anthony Joshua didn't matter in this country.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Jake Paul obviously draws because he keeps booking these fights.
So even though we don't know the numbers, somebody's making
money here.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Does this fight matter?

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
I'm gonna say, in the grand No, in the grand
scheme of things, No, Jake Paul doesn't catapult himself with
a win. Joshua doesn't revitalize his career with a win.
They're both going to get a paid ay, even if
it's not what we think it is, it's gonna be handsome. Otherwise,

(01:06:41):
Joshua is not doing it in the grand scheme of things.
Does it matter?

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
No, I agree with you, it does not. It's an
interesting dichotomy. I've seen the two have social media photos together.
I think they played paintball or something back in the day,
and Jake Paul reached out to a dancing partner that
he felt comfortable with. Anthony Joshua is a huge name

(01:07:06):
from the outset. It feels like this is the most
dangerous fight of Jake Paul's career. There's a weight restriction
on a heavyweight fight, which is absolutely unheard of. Joshua's
taking this so seriously. There's already talk, I believe, of
him and Fury finally doing the dance in London and

(01:07:28):
Fury trying to build that up so much has already
taken Jake Paul, which that fifth round knockout lost to
Daniel Dubois almost makes you think Anthony Joshua could be
damaged goods. You just got to remember, though, back to
what he did to Francis and Ghana, to remember that
he is still a real heavyweight with big punching power.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Agreed. No, I agree. All things being equal, you assume
Joshua wins this and wins it pretty convincingly and pretty early.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
I don't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
I believe all things are equal. I think this fight
goes the distance, and I think.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
We get a controversial decision. I wouldn't be surprised. I
I really do think that the Joshua camp has underestimated
how detrimental it is gonna be to a heavyweight to
cut weight for the first time in his life, to
be restricted of calories, to be restricted of nutrients, to

(01:08:28):
be restricted of waters. Here's a reason why they're trying
to deplete him and weaken him walking into the cage.
I think there's some very savvy moves by the MVP
Promotions to put Jake Paul.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Yeah, I think it's going to be very interesting, for sure,
it's there. Of course, MVP is putting Jake Paul in
a position to be successful.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
That's what they do. By the way, don't.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Fault him for that, but you look at who Jake
Paul has fault and every one of those fights come
with some sort of caveat.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
MVP Promotions does a very good job of doing what
they can to give Jake Paul every opportunity to be successful.
They feed the coal to keep this train on the
tracks and going.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
At least you've got a good undercard to help solidify
the present and future of boxing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Oh no, wait, you don't either.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
You've got Anderson Silva and Tyron Woodley.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
And then on top of that, Lesia Bumgardner Caroline Duboise.
They're both champions. That is a title fight. Yeah, so
relatively great records, each one of them defending their title.
Bump Gardner against Leah bo doing and then it's Camilla

(01:09:46):
Pintara challenging Caroline and a base. It's just I don't
know how the well MVP is still the biggest promoter
in boxing. It's hard to say that the cards that
they produce that don't feature Jake Paul have resonated. And
it's questionable how much of a star has Amanda Serrano.

(01:10:10):
Oh wait, there's another more inactive PFL signing than frances
and Gano. She was also crossover. And it's not like
Amanda hadn't done MMA. She had fought for Jre Mospital's
Icon Fighting Championships three times two years ago. But I
don't know how much of a star MVP has made her,
So fingers crossed for Domboise and Bumgardner favorites on this

(01:10:32):
weekend that this does help their profile for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
And that's basically your your main card.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
The Paul Josh will fight Bomb Gardner.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
And they'll doing and Silva would lee also Jamal Harvey
and Kevin Cervantes a six round super featherweight bout. That's
your main card. Everything else is prelims, And honestly, I
don't know how many people are checking out the prelims. Hell,
I don't know how many people are checking out the
main card other than the main event itself.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
Yeah, I don't know. So the Jake Paul experience and
MVP promotions, it's been very good for Jake Paul yep.
But I almost wonder if it's just if it's the
main course that just keeps the appetite, that keeps the
bar open the rest of the week. It's that one
bit concert each and every so many months that just
keeps the place running for the rest of the time.

(01:11:26):
Pretty much pretty much, all.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
Right, Micah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
The plan.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
Is to take the next two weeks off for the
holidays and come back rare and to go in January.
Next show tentatively scheduled for January sixth. Should situations warrant,
we'll come back sooner than that, but take a couple
of weeks off for the holidays and then get ready
for UFC on Paramount After this weekend, after the Paul

(01:11:54):
Joshua fight, everything kind of slows down for a few weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
So you guys know how I kind of normally go
overboard on our end of the year awards, our year
end review. Well, now Michael Carlisle's giving me two extra
weeks to work on it. This might be a two
hours show, all the incremental tidbits. We might have a
worse ref moment of the year. Who knows what I'm
gonna go and research in the next couple weeks to

(01:12:21):
put together for that giant recap of twenty twenty five?
Who was a big year?

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Or you could use that two weeks to whittle down
the insequential stuff and really make it tight and lean.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
No, No, let's go big bass. Everybody will miss us
to want to hear us for hours. Oh if you'll
miss these lovely voices talking MMA. Obviously, pro wrestling doesn't
take a take any time off, guys, we will be
doing that show, yes consistently. If you miss us.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Enough, absolutely, Micah. Tell everybody how they can keep up
with you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Cageminds dot com, Cage Mindscombat Sports News, Facebook and YouTube.
We will be live every week. I'm believing for my
fight show and who knows, we'll fall Dragon Michael Carlisle
on that one. Just in case there's any breaking news,
maybe we'll just do it on there. Cage Minds Underscore
CSN on the rest of your social media, get the
show on.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
X at MMA after Hours. You can get me at
real Mike Carlisle. Happy Holidays to everybody, Merry Christmas, Happy Honika, Kwanza,
whatever it is you celebrate, and if you don't celebrate anything,
well happy not celebrating anything as well. We'll talk to
you soon here on another episode of MMA After Hours

(01:13:32):
here on the After Hours podcast network.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Love Combat Sports. I have a website for you, Cageminds
dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
That's C A G E.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
D M I n DS dot com. Fight news from
around the world, in depth interviews, live event coverage covering
combat sports for over a decade. Established in April two,
Levin that's cagemids dot com,