May 8, 2023 • 31 mins
Can a mentor change your life? Over the course of two decades Dan was guided by four radically different mentors: the Professor, a scientist-mystic; the Guru, a charismatic spiritual master; the Warrior-Priest, a rescuer of lost souls; and the Sage, a servant of reality. Each of them generated mind-expanding experiences that prepared Dan for his calling as a down-to-earth spiritual teacher. Tune in for an inspiring discussion with Dan Millman on his new #book Peaceful Heart, Warrior Spirit: The True Story of My Spiritual Quest.
Moments with Marianne airs Live in the Los Angeles area on KMET 1490AM & 98.1 FM ABC Talk Radio!
Dan Millman’s books and teachings have been a guiding light to millions of people. Author of eighteen books published in twenty-nine languages, Dan is also a former world-champion athlete, Stanford University gymnastics coach, martial arts instructor, and Oberlin College professor. His book Way of the Peaceful Warrior was adapted into a 2006 feature film. www.PeacefulWarrior.com
Moments with Marianne airs Live in the Los Angeles area on KMET 1490AM & 98.1 FM ABC Talk Radio!
Dan Millman’s books and teachings have been a guiding light to millions of people. Author of eighteen books published in twenty-nine languages, Dan is also a former world-champion athlete, Stanford University gymnastics coach, martial arts instructor, and Oberlin College professor. His book Way of the Peaceful Warrior was adapted into a 2006 feature film. www.PeacefulWarrior.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:15):
Welcome to Moments with Mary Anne.This is your host, Mary A Pistana,
and we're here today with special guestsDan Millman, who's here to share
with us his new book, PeacefulHeart, Warrior Spirit, The True story
of My spiritual quest. So Dan'sbooks and teachings have been the guiding light
(00:37):
to millions of people. He's theauthor of eighteen books published in twenty nine
languages, and as a former worldchampion athlete, Stanford University gymnast coach,
martial arts instructor, and Oberlin Collegeprofessor. His book Way of the Peaceful
Warrior was adapted into a film intwo thousand and six. So let's welcome
(01:00):
to the show, Dan Millman.Well, thank you, Mary, I'm
glad to be here with you.Oh my goodness, what an honored is
to have you here. And soonas I got my hands on this book,
man, it's a game changer,you know, and I was just
so impressed with it. Well,I'm very glad to hear that. Well,
why don't we start with the title. I mean, that's one of
(01:23):
the things that kind of really drewme in. What does it mean,
you know, to be, youknow, have the peaceful heart and warrior
spirit. Well, I came aboutthat term organically, actually, when I
was relatively young. I was stillin my late twenties and I was an
assistant professor at Oberlin College in Ohio, and I was teaching. I had
(01:46):
created a martial arts course around aikidoand tai chi, and I was going
to call the course the Way ofthe Warrior, which makes sense, but
they're internal sorts of martial arts.They're more receptive, they're not aggressive arts.
So a light bulb went on andI said, why don't I call
the course the Way of a peacefulWarrior? And only later, when I
(02:07):
wrote my first book did I comeup when I think of that, that
term, Oh, why don't Icall the book that? And over time
people ask me, what do youmean by peaceful warrior? That sounds like
a contradiction in terms, and yetit seems like everyone I meet is a
peaceful warrior and trained because all ofus are striving to live with a peaceful
(02:30):
heart in our lives, a senseof serenity, equanimity in the chaos and
change in everyday life, because we'venoticed particularly lately. But it's universal,
and so I think people could relateto the idea that they're striving to live
with a more peaceful heart. Butthere are also times we need a warrior's
spirit. It's not about fighting,except perhaps those inner demons of insecurity,
(02:55):
self doubt, and various kinds offear. But it's more about rolling up
our sleeves, standing up tall insideof ourselves, and marching into everyday life
and doing what we need to do. And often that takes a warrior spirit.
So it seemed natural when I waswriting my memoir Culminating Work after eighteen
books and forty years of writing,that I would call it peaceful heart warrior
(03:22):
spirit because it's really about all ofus. And I wouldn't presume to write
a memoir because I assume legions ofpeople want to read about this Dan Nolan
character, but more because it's abouta quest we all share. Each of
us is going up the same mountain, but by different paths, and so
that's why I ended up using thatterm, and that's why it applies to
(03:45):
all of us in our universal quest. Well, thank you for breaking that
down, because I think a lotof people look at that and go,
gosh, this is very interesting,and they look at warrior thinking, Okay,
this is, you know, Ihave to bring my fighting spirit to
my everyday life. And so whenyou talk about spirit what do you I
mean, how's that play a rolein our everyday lives and what does that
(04:09):
look like? Well, you know, I used to think spirituality was something
special and out there and elsewhere ina cathedral or perhaps a forest where we
feel a sense of spirit. Butmy view has changed. I think this
evolution started when I asked my littledaughter, then ten years old, now
(04:32):
a grown woman, an author inher own right. But when I asked
Sierrah to name some spiritual books shehad read, and she gave me a
list the next day, because shewas a voracious reader. And she gave
me a list of ten books,and not a single one of them had
to do with metaphysics, or theNew Age or religious belief even they were
(04:57):
books that inspired and uplift at her. And don't we all love to be
inspired and uplifted? And to me, that's what spirituality is ultimately for in
a practical way, and everyday lifethat we touch the numinis, we touch
that sense that's all around us.You know, it seems to me that
(05:19):
we all breathe and live surrounded byspirit, by beauty, by inspiration every
day, but normally we don't havethe eyes to notice it. It's not
like the weather person comes on theradio and says twenty percent chance of reigned
today and thirteen percent spirit out.It's always here, but we are often
(05:43):
preoccupied what am I going to doabout my relationship, about my finances,
about the decisions in front of me, And so we're preoccupied. And it's
only when we travel somewhere or walkin the woods where our eyes open up
and we begin to see the world, even for a few moments, with
the eyes of a child that wideeyed wow, and rediscover life and reappreciate
(06:08):
our own lives. So to me, it's about freeing our attention to begin
to notice the spirit that's around usall the time in everyday life. Well,
it's interesting because you brought up somethings I think people are really focused
on today when they talk about relationshipsand finances, there's all this worry.
(06:30):
So how do they integrate peaceful heart, warrior spirit with this kind of life.
Well, as you've seen in thebook, it covers some foundational elements
of my own particular journey that manypeople relate to in their own way.
But I was a young tramplinist,you know, who knew that jumping up
(06:51):
and down into trampling would lead toa scholarship to college, in a gymnastics
career, world championship, and teachingat Stanford University, coaching on the lead
team there. I never ever wouldhave imagined any of that. I just
knew I loved jumping on a trampoline. So I go through my athletic career
(07:13):
as actually a precursor or even thefirst part of my own spiritual quest.
But then I address four mentors thatI studied with for a period of well
a little over twenty years. Ididn't just gather initiations from one teacher or
another. These were four radically differentteachers, and I called them the Professor,
(07:38):
the Guru, the warrior Priest,and the Sage. And in response
to your question, after providing thatcontext, I would say the Sage had
the most realistic approach to facing challenges, internal challenges like worry, anxiety,
(07:59):
in various kinds of fear, selfdoubt, but also functioning well in the
world. And you know, functioningwell may not sound too spiritual or sexy,
but those who function well in life. Those who finish what they start,
get things done, and have somemodest accomplishments are more likely to have
a default sense of fulfillment in lifethan those who don't finish what they start
(08:24):
and don't get them so. Heoffered some reminders that I share with others
in my own way. One ofthe sayings I remember from him from the
stage was that when running up ahill, it's okay to give up and
quit as many times as we want, as long as our feet keep moving.
(08:48):
In other words, his focus inmind is not as much about trying
to fix our insides and have justthe right feelings and just the right thoughts,
because many of us have grown upin a culture you know and assume
we have to do that, wehave to quiet our mind and have only
positive thoughts and have right emotions likeconfidence and courage and compassion and gratitude and
(09:15):
all those good feelings which you're wonderfulto have. But he pointed out that
we have actually less control by ourwill. We can't will ourselves to feel
differently than the way we do inany given moment, even though emotions are
changing all the time, like thechanging weather and wet we don't have a
(09:37):
spam filter in our head. Wecan't stop thoughts from arising in our awareness
and then suddenly we notice them.The discursive or random mind, the monkey
mind, some call it. Thoseare a part of our lives. So
my approach is not to tell peoplehow to no longer feel anxiety and to
only feel good feelings. Many peopleclaim to be able to do that,
(10:01):
but I've found we have nobody hasreal control. It's not within our human
control just say I'm going to feeldifferently right now, or I'm just going
to stop those thoughts. In fact, the best way I know it to
become obsessed with something is trying notto think about it all day. So
instead of that, we accept ouremotions and our thoughts is natural to us
(10:24):
in the moment. And you know, it's wonderful that your show is called
Moments with Maryanne. I like thealliteration, but I also like the theme
because the sage also pointed out thatlife is a series of moments. Someone
came up to me once and said, Dan, you know, after that
talk, I really feel inspired.I said, don't worry, it'll pass,
(10:46):
because inspiration passes, motivation comes andgoes. Someone came up to me,
you know, sometime later and said, you know, Dan, you
seem like a nice guy. AndI said, sometimes, because we all
have neurotic moments and high functioning moments, we all have intelligent moments. I've
(11:07):
had some intelligent moments. I've alsohad some stupid ones. Ask my daughters,
I'll tell you so moments. Lifeis a series of moments, and
says a man named Cesari Pabes oncesaid that we do not remember days.
We remember moments. So I lovethe theme of your show. And that's
(11:28):
so what I would recommend to anyonesuffering from anxiety and doubts, which is
a human things. It means we'reengaged with life. I would say that
it's helpful to accept our thoughts andfeelings as natural to us in the moment.
And while we're doing that, aswe would in meditation, just notice
them. Yep, they're there,pleasant or unpleasant, but they're there.
(11:50):
They will pass. And the secondthing is to focus on a constructive purpose.
What do I want to do?What I like to get done right
now? And you know many ofus concerned about purpose. I am too.
Four of my books deal with likepurpose. So it's important but the
major purpose is not our cosmic longterm purpose, but it's the one that's
(12:13):
in front of us right now.I know my purpose right now. You
know yours right now on this moment. So to focus on that and then
do whatever we need to do,despite whether we're feeling positive or negative,
and do that. You know,the first time I won the National trampoline
Championship, I had an upset stomach. I was feeling nervous anxious, but
(12:39):
I still had to get up onthe trampoline, start jumping, jump higher
and higher, and then do myroutine. And life is very much like
that. As you remember. There'san incident in the book when I was
a little kid six years old andI was playing with Streetwise Old of France,
nine years old, and they climbedto a roof of a house under
(13:00):
construction. It was the weekend,no one was there, and they were
jumping off into a sand pit downbelow, sinking up to their knees,
and they said, come on,Danny, your turn. Well, I
was six, and I really wantedto do it. I mean, how
many of us said really wanted todo something, but we were afraid or
doubted ourselves. And I went tothe edge and I backed up. I
(13:22):
went to the edge, I backedup, and finally Steve, my older
friend, yelled something that I reallynever forgot. He said, Danny,
just stop thinking and jump. Andthat became like a master metaphor for me
that I remembered years later. Itworked well in gymnastics when I was feeling
nervous or afraid, but not aswell in relationships all the time. So
(13:48):
everything in moderation. But that's howI learned to face fear. I learned
to You know, there's a sayingdon't act without thinking, and don't think
when out acting. There's that balancethat each of us can do. So
we have stresses in everyday life.We can't really stop stress, but we
(14:09):
can learn to remember to take adeep breath and relax our body. And
you know, stress is not nearlyas harmful when you're relaxed at the same
time. So that's under our control. Whereas we can't guarantee it will never
feel stressed again. It's again it'sbeing engaged with life. So that's what
(14:33):
comes up for me. In responseto your lovely question, well, thank
you for taking the time to reallyexpand on that for our listeners. Because
you know, one of the thingsI hear all the time, and you
talked about your four books that talkon this is purpose and how people feel
about their lives that way, Imean, do you feel like life is
(14:54):
unfolding the way it should? Well, it's interesting. And one of my
books called The Hidden School, whichwas the third in the Peaceful Warrior saga,
the major theme I addressed there isa paradoxical theme. What that means
is it embraces apparent opposites. Nowwhat do I mean by paradox And really
(15:16):
I am answering your question here byproviding your context. Remember the opening to
a Tale of Two Cities, thatwonderful book starts out, it was the
best of times, it was theworst of times, and we could relate
to that. Most of us couldargue it's the best of times and find
(15:37):
many reasons for that. And wecould also argue it's the worst of times.
So how can they both be true? Well, it turns out we
live in two realities. One isappropriately we live in the conventional world,
a conventional mind. We do ourhomework, we do the housework, we
do, go to work in school, and raise kids. Whatever we need
(16:02):
to do. In this world,and probably ninety nine percent of our time
is often spent in the conventional mind. But there's also a transcendental line,
and that is the bigger picture.It's as if we were down in the
weeds in the bottom of a mountainand suddenly find ourselves transported to the peak
of that mountain and we look aroundat a panoramic view. Everything looks more
(16:26):
beautiful from a distance, and thatbig picture and big mind. Call it
transcendence, call it enlightenment, whateverwe call it. That has different truths.
So one can say that we havethat time is real. Time passes.
(16:47):
That's a conventional truth, it's observable. But transcendentally speaking, there is
no such thing as passing time.All we have is one present moment or
another. It's the eternal present.Someone can say, wait, I know
the past exists, and I havea photograph of my last birthday party,
(17:08):
but all they're doing is showing mean image in this present moment. So
by handling what's in front of us, rather than getting lost in memories or
imagination, memories of the past orimaginations of the future, we realize reality.
Our moment of power is right now, what's in front of us.
(17:30):
That's what we can control. That'swhen we can act this moment, this
moment and this moment. So inthis paradoxical world we live in where free
will exists conventionally speaking, but youknow, for example, we can make
choices anytime every day, but canwe choose what we're going to choose?
(17:52):
That may possibly be determined? Andthat's the transcendental or big picture truth.
So there are other adox is,like the opposites that I go into in
that particular book. So when youask, is everything unfolding as it should?
Getting back to your question, Ican properly answer it conventionally speaking,
(18:14):
No, No, there's so manythings you or I or listeners would like
to improve or change, whatever ourviews about life, politics, anything else,
there are things we'd like different.But transcendentally speaking, and I've been
I've visited that place. It hitme once on a sidewalk in Berkeley.
I actually discussed this in brief.I mentioned it in the new book in
(18:38):
Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit. I wassitting got a curb on Telegraph Avenue in
Berkeley. I was a college student, a young athlete, and I had
a couple hours before workout, Ihad just like free attention, free space.
I've done my homework. I justwas sitting and enjoying life. And
(18:59):
actually I remember eating it. Iwas eating a grapefood I just bought from
a kind of a local market.And as I was doing that, I
looked at cars dropping by at eyelevel because I was sitting in the curve,
exhaust coming out of the cars,some litter in the streets. And
suddenly, for no reason I candescribe, everything was absolutely perfect. I
(19:22):
was perfect. The world was perfect. Even though the Vietnam War was going
on and all these things were happening. I saw. I could not see
it, but anything less than aperfect part of our lives unfolding so transcendentitely
speaking, it's all divine perfection.We're learning lessons, they're getting dramatic,
(19:45):
and we have to stay with it, continue working with it, and just
stay the course do what we can. I think it will make a huge
difference in our lives as human beingswhen we be again to shift from a
competitive mind me first, to amore collaborative mind. Well, what's for
(20:06):
the highest good of all concerned?What's for the good of our children,
our grandchildren and future generations. Whatdo we really want, not just for
ourselves in the short term, butwhat do we want for the world to
look like? And when we canmake that shift, I think a humanity
had a pretty good chance. Well, wouldn't that be a great place to
(20:30):
come from? Here? You comefrom that kind of place. Well,
and it has me kind of thinking, I mean, you met these four
remarkable mentors. Did you kind ofgo out in search of them or did
they find their way to you?Well, again, a little background here.
When I was young, I wastotally into self improvement. I read
(20:55):
books on vocabulary, building on speedreading. I took courses in memory and
memorizing many objects at one so Ilearned sleight of hand and ventriloquism, and
acrobatics and martial arts. I wasreally into learning and improving myself. One
day, though it's not that Iburned out. I think the better each
(21:17):
of us is, the better itis for the planet. But I realized,
no matter how much I improved myself, only one person that benefited.
But if I could somehow influence otherpeople, that would make my life more
meaningful. I didn't know at thetime how I would do that. I
hadn't written any books. I wasteaching gymnastics and doing gymnastics, but I
(21:37):
just knew that impulse was in me. I guess it was the first calling
as a teacher, even while young, though I had nothing at the time
really to teach but sports. ButI believe that commitment to share whatever I
learned with other people was what openedme up to finding these four radically different
(22:02):
master teachers, one at a time. But the way I met them,
where I go into that in thebook of Course, and why I moved
on are part of the whole story. So let's just say it. It
seemed like apparent coincidences and synchronicities andtiming that I happened to meet these four
(22:23):
different teachers, and I wasn't evenlooking for a teacher. After the first
two. That was ten years ofmy life training in depth a way of
life with a professor and then theGuru, doing an immense number of spiritual
practices and techniques and programs and learningmodels and maps of human consciousness and all
(22:45):
that I was no longer looking fora teacher. I had written Way of
the Peaceful Warrior after that, afterthe influence of the first two teachers,
but then through another coincidence, someonesaid called me up out of the blue.
I'd tell them, and they said, this fellow, his name was
(23:06):
Michael book Binder. He read yourfirst book, Dan, and because I
only had that one book, heread your book and he'd love to meet
you. And he's giving a talkat a local women's center, a women's
club, down too far from you. And so I wasn't even going to
go because I wasn't looking. Itwas no longer really searching for a teacher.
But Joy, you know, thekids were, our little girls were
(23:27):
asleep for the night, and Joewas busy with something and said, Dan,
you know what about this martial artsfellow, this teacher metaphysics guy,
why don't you just drop by there? And I was sure glad I took
her advice, because when I sawhim, it was like meeting a long
lost brother. And we traveled together, we talked together, and and it
(23:49):
says I apprenticed with him as well. He was a dramatic type teacher,
I like any of the others,and then later on I would find the
same age through various changing circumstances.So that's the best way I can respond
to that question. About these fourteachers. By the way, I'm not
claiming they I had the best teachersof ever for anyone could find. Aren't
(24:15):
I lucky? Actually? I don'tbelieve there is a best teacher, or
best book, or best philosophy,or best religion, or best diet or
best system of exercise. I onlybelieve that there is the best for each
of us at a given time ofour lives. So I have complete respect
(24:36):
for each individual and the choices thatthey made finding what's best for them.
And we've all had mentors, rolemodels, and inspiring teachers in our lives.
We might remember one or two orthree teachers from elementary or middle school,
or high school or even college whodemanded our best and who inspired us.
(24:57):
So we've all had mentors. Butthese four represent four radically different approaches
to this spiritual quest which I describedin them book. Is the peaceful heart
warrior spirit kind of a way ofliving and something that you do throughout your
entire lifetime or is this something thatcould be cultivated in a like six months
(25:22):
or year. Oh, it's alifetime practice. I'm still practicing myself.
And I point out in the bookssome humorous incidents that happened. For example,
I was giving a talk in Melbourne, Australia, and I was introduced
to this very large audience. Iwas among other speakers that they invited in
and they said, Dan Milman isan expert in mindfulness from America Mindfulness.
(25:48):
So the first thing I said tothem was, you know, folks,
my wife would beg to differ,because when she sees how I sometimes do
the pots, scrub the pots,or do the dishes. After she makes
us a nice meal, she alwaysfinds spots I missed. So I'm still
practicing mindfulness. By the way,mindfulness has become a kind of thing.
(26:10):
People think, oh, I practicemindfulness, But all it means is just
paying attention to what's going on atthe present moment, without judgments, just
being aware. And when we turninward we call it mindfulness meditation. When
we turn outward into the world,we call it paying attention, noticing what's
around us. There was an interestingphrase the stage offered to me. He
(26:36):
said, when passing by a mirror, notice the frame. What does that
mean? Well, it means mostof us are preoccupied with ourselves. How
do I look? Am I doing? Okay? All about me? And
those who are the happiest in theworld have their attention on other people and
(26:59):
the world and what they'd like tooffer. And so turning our attention mindfully
into the world, I think canbe a very good practice rather than getting
lost in ourselves. So the frameof the mirror represents the outside world and
noticing beauty around us. So thoseare the kinds of practices. This approach
that I came up with, calledthe Peaceful Warrior's Way, is again it's
(27:23):
about all of us, and ittakes place here and now in daily light.
Now you know, anyone obviously who'sinterested and curious about this approach can
always drop by my website. Wecan mention it later if you like,
and there's a life purpose calculating it. It's free. You can just put
in your day of birth and maybegleans and interesting information sampling of what I
(27:45):
have in longer programs and books andso on. So that's and also the
books and my online courses and allthat are can be found at the website.
Why don't you share that website withus? Because I found it to
be such a great resource. Sureit's peaceful Warrior, not surprising dot com.
Peaceful Warrior dot com. That's easyenough to remember. Well, Dan,
(28:10):
thank you so much for taking thetime to be on the show with
us here today. Thanks for givingme the room to write. Well,
thank you, Dan, It's beensuch an honor to spend this time with
you and to talk about your newbook, Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit The True
Story of My spiritual quest. PeacefulHeart Warrior Spirits available at Amazon, barn
(28:33):
to Noble in all indie retailers,and if you don't see it on the
shelf, just ask for them toorder. Of course, remember support our
indie bookstores. You can also pickup this book from the publisher, New
World Library at Newworldlibrary dot com.Well, on that note, we're going
to pause here for a quick momentand we'll be right back after these messages.
(29:08):
I'd like to thank Jason Eastwood atGuitarfulness for sharing his inspiring music and
talent with us. His music isknown worldwide for cultivating atmospheres of harmony,
inner peace, and clarity. VisitJason's website at guitarfulness dot com, join
(29:30):
his newsletter, be part of hiscommunity, and download his music. Well,
we're at the end of our timetoday, I like to thank everyone
for tuning in. You've been listeningto Moments with mary Anne, where we
(29:52):
make every moment count. In asingle moment, your life can change.
(30:14):
Moments with Maryanne is a transformative hourthat covers an endless array of topics with
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(30:37):
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and visit Moments with Maryanne dot comfor more information. Game the game, Game
Welcome to Moments with Mary Anne.This is your host, Mary A Pistana,
and we're here today with special guestsDan Millman, who's here to share
with us his new book, PeacefulHeart, Warrior Spirit, The True story
of My spiritual quest. So Dan'sbooks and teachings have been the guiding light
(00:37):
to millions of people. He's theauthor of eighteen books published in twenty nine
languages, and as a former worldchampion athlete, Stanford University gymnast coach,
martial arts instructor, and Oberlin Collegeprofessor. His book Way of the Peaceful
Warrior was adapted into a film intwo thousand and six. So let's welcome
(01:00):
to the show, Dan Millman.Well, thank you, Mary, I'm
glad to be here with you.Oh my goodness, what an honored is
to have you here. And soonas I got my hands on this book,
man, it's a game changer,you know, and I was just
so impressed with it. Well,I'm very glad to hear that. Well,
why don't we start with the title. I mean, that's one of
(01:23):
the things that kind of really drewme in. What does it mean,
you know, to be, youknow, have the peaceful heart and warrior
spirit. Well, I came aboutthat term organically, actually, when I
was relatively young. I was stillin my late twenties and I was an
assistant professor at Oberlin College in Ohio, and I was teaching. I had
(01:46):
created a martial arts course around aikidoand tai chi, and I was going
to call the course the Way ofthe Warrior, which makes sense, but
they're internal sorts of martial arts.They're more receptive, they're not aggressive arts.
So a light bulb went on andI said, why don't I call
the course the Way of a peacefulWarrior? And only later, when I
(02:07):
wrote my first book did I comeup when I think of that, that
term, Oh, why don't Icall the book that? And over time
people ask me, what do youmean by peaceful warrior? That sounds like
a contradiction in terms, and yetit seems like everyone I meet is a
peaceful warrior and trained because all ofus are striving to live with a peaceful
(02:30):
heart in our lives, a senseof serenity, equanimity in the chaos and
change in everyday life, because we'venoticed particularly lately. But it's universal,
and so I think people could relateto the idea that they're striving to live
with a more peaceful heart. Butthere are also times we need a warrior's
spirit. It's not about fighting,except perhaps those inner demons of insecurity,
(02:55):
self doubt, and various kinds offear. But it's more about rolling up
our sleeves, standing up tall insideof ourselves, and marching into everyday life
and doing what we need to do. And often that takes a warrior spirit.
So it seemed natural when I waswriting my memoir Culminating Work after eighteen
books and forty years of writing,that I would call it peaceful heart warrior
(03:22):
spirit because it's really about all ofus. And I wouldn't presume to write
a memoir because I assume legions ofpeople want to read about this Dan Nolan
character, but more because it's abouta quest we all share. Each of
us is going up the same mountain, but by different paths, and so
that's why I ended up using thatterm, and that's why it applies to
(03:45):
all of us in our universal quest. Well, thank you for breaking that
down, because I think a lotof people look at that and go,
gosh, this is very interesting,and they look at warrior thinking, Okay,
this is, you know, Ihave to bring my fighting spirit to
my everyday life. And so whenyou talk about spirit what do you I
mean, how's that play a rolein our everyday lives and what does that
(04:09):
look like? Well, you know, I used to think spirituality was something
special and out there and elsewhere ina cathedral or perhaps a forest where we
feel a sense of spirit. Butmy view has changed. I think this
evolution started when I asked my littledaughter, then ten years old, now
(04:32):
a grown woman, an author inher own right. But when I asked
Sierrah to name some spiritual books shehad read, and she gave me a
list the next day, because shewas a voracious reader. And she gave
me a list of ten books,and not a single one of them had
to do with metaphysics, or theNew Age or religious belief even they were
(04:57):
books that inspired and uplift at her. And don't we all love to be
inspired and uplifted? And to me, that's what spirituality is ultimately for in
a practical way, and everyday lifethat we touch the numinis, we touch
that sense that's all around us.You know, it seems to me that
(05:19):
we all breathe and live surrounded byspirit, by beauty, by inspiration every
day, but normally we don't havethe eyes to notice it. It's not
like the weather person comes on theradio and says twenty percent chance of reigned
today and thirteen percent spirit out.It's always here, but we are often
(05:43):
preoccupied what am I going to doabout my relationship, about my finances,
about the decisions in front of me, And so we're preoccupied. And it's
only when we travel somewhere or walkin the woods where our eyes open up
and we begin to see the world, even for a few moments, with
the eyes of a child that wideeyed wow, and rediscover life and reappreciate
(06:08):
our own lives. So to me, it's about freeing our attention to begin
to notice the spirit that's around usall the time in everyday life. Well,
it's interesting because you brought up somethings I think people are really focused
on today when they talk about relationshipsand finances, there's all this worry.
(06:30):
So how do they integrate peaceful heart, warrior spirit with this kind of life.
Well, as you've seen in thebook, it covers some foundational elements
of my own particular journey that manypeople relate to in their own way.
But I was a young tramplinist,you know, who knew that jumping up
(06:51):
and down into trampling would lead toa scholarship to college, in a gymnastics
career, world championship, and teachingat Stanford University, coaching on the lead
team there. I never ever wouldhave imagined any of that. I just
knew I loved jumping on a trampoline. So I go through my athletic career
(07:13):
as actually a precursor or even thefirst part of my own spiritual quest.
But then I address four mentors thatI studied with for a period of well
a little over twenty years. Ididn't just gather initiations from one teacher or
another. These were four radically differentteachers, and I called them the Professor,
(07:38):
the Guru, the warrior Priest,and the Sage. And in response
to your question, after providing thatcontext, I would say the Sage had
the most realistic approach to facing challenges, internal challenges like worry, anxiety,
(07:59):
in various kinds of fear, selfdoubt, but also functioning well in the
world. And you know, functioningwell may not sound too spiritual or sexy,
but those who function well in life. Those who finish what they start,
get things done, and have somemodest accomplishments are more likely to have
a default sense of fulfillment in lifethan those who don't finish what they start
(08:24):
and don't get them so. Heoffered some reminders that I share with others
in my own way. One ofthe sayings I remember from him from the
stage was that when running up ahill, it's okay to give up and
quit as many times as we want, as long as our feet keep moving.
(08:48):
In other words, his focus inmind is not as much about trying
to fix our insides and have justthe right feelings and just the right thoughts,
because many of us have grown upin a culture you know and assume
we have to do that, wehave to quiet our mind and have only
positive thoughts and have right emotions likeconfidence and courage and compassion and gratitude and
(09:15):
all those good feelings which you're wonderfulto have. But he pointed out that
we have actually less control by ourwill. We can't will ourselves to feel
differently than the way we do inany given moment, even though emotions are
changing all the time, like thechanging weather and wet we don't have a
(09:37):
spam filter in our head. Wecan't stop thoughts from arising in our awareness
and then suddenly we notice them.The discursive or random mind, the monkey
mind, some call it. Thoseare a part of our lives. So
my approach is not to tell peoplehow to no longer feel anxiety and to
only feel good feelings. Many peopleclaim to be able to do that,
(10:01):
but I've found we have nobody hasreal control. It's not within our human
control just say I'm going to feeldifferently right now, or I'm just going
to stop those thoughts. In fact, the best way I know it to
become obsessed with something is trying notto think about it all day. So
instead of that, we accept ouremotions and our thoughts is natural to us
(10:24):
in the moment. And you know, it's wonderful that your show is called
Moments with Maryanne. I like thealliteration, but I also like the theme
because the sage also pointed out thatlife is a series of moments. Someone
came up to me once and said, Dan, you know, after that
talk, I really feel inspired.I said, don't worry, it'll pass,
(10:46):
because inspiration passes, motivation comes andgoes. Someone came up to me,
you know, sometime later and said, you know, Dan, you
seem like a nice guy. AndI said, sometimes, because we all
have neurotic moments and high functioning moments, we all have intelligent moments. I've
(11:07):
had some intelligent moments. I've alsohad some stupid ones. Ask my daughters,
I'll tell you so moments. Lifeis a series of moments, and
says a man named Cesari Pabes oncesaid that we do not remember days.
We remember moments. So I lovethe theme of your show. And that's
(11:28):
so what I would recommend to anyonesuffering from anxiety and doubts, which is
a human things. It means we'reengaged with life. I would say that
it's helpful to accept our thoughts andfeelings as natural to us in the moment.
And while we're doing that, aswe would in meditation, just notice
them. Yep, they're there,pleasant or unpleasant, but they're there.
(11:50):
They will pass. And the secondthing is to focus on a constructive purpose.
What do I want to do?What I like to get done right
now? And you know many ofus concerned about purpose. I am too.
Four of my books deal with likepurpose. So it's important but the
major purpose is not our cosmic longterm purpose, but it's the one that's
(12:13):
in front of us right now.I know my purpose right now. You
know yours right now on this moment. So to focus on that and then
do whatever we need to do,despite whether we're feeling positive or negative,
and do that. You know,the first time I won the National trampoline
Championship, I had an upset stomach. I was feeling nervous anxious, but
(12:39):
I still had to get up onthe trampoline, start jumping, jump higher
and higher, and then do myroutine. And life is very much like
that. As you remember. There'san incident in the book when I was
a little kid six years old andI was playing with Streetwise Old of France,
nine years old, and they climbedto a roof of a house under
(13:00):
construction. It was the weekend,no one was there, and they were
jumping off into a sand pit downbelow, sinking up to their knees,
and they said, come on,Danny, your turn. Well, I
was six, and I really wantedto do it. I mean, how
many of us said really wanted todo something, but we were afraid or
doubted ourselves. And I went tothe edge and I backed up. I
(13:22):
went to the edge, I backedup, and finally Steve, my older
friend, yelled something that I reallynever forgot. He said, Danny,
just stop thinking and jump. Andthat became like a master metaphor for me
that I remembered years later. Itworked well in gymnastics when I was feeling
nervous or afraid, but not aswell in relationships all the time. So
(13:48):
everything in moderation. But that's howI learned to face fear. I learned
to You know, there's a sayingdon't act without thinking, and don't think
when out acting. There's that balancethat each of us can do. So
we have stresses in everyday life.We can't really stop stress, but we
(14:09):
can learn to remember to take adeep breath and relax our body. And
you know, stress is not nearlyas harmful when you're relaxed at the same
time. So that's under our control. Whereas we can't guarantee it will never
feel stressed again. It's again it'sbeing engaged with life. So that's what
(14:33):
comes up for me. In responseto your lovely question, well, thank
you for taking the time to reallyexpand on that for our listeners. Because
you know, one of the thingsI hear all the time, and you
talked about your four books that talkon this is purpose and how people feel
about their lives that way, Imean, do you feel like life is
(14:54):
unfolding the way it should? Well, it's interesting. And one of my
books called The Hidden School, whichwas the third in the Peaceful Warrior saga,
the major theme I addressed there isa paradoxical theme. What that means
is it embraces apparent opposites. Nowwhat do I mean by paradox And really
(15:16):
I am answering your question here byproviding your context. Remember the opening to
a Tale of Two Cities, thatwonderful book starts out, it was the
best of times, it was theworst of times, and we could relate
to that. Most of us couldargue it's the best of times and find
(15:37):
many reasons for that. And wecould also argue it's the worst of times.
So how can they both be true? Well, it turns out we
live in two realities. One isappropriately we live in the conventional world,
a conventional mind. We do ourhomework, we do the housework, we
do, go to work in school, and raise kids. Whatever we need
(16:02):
to do. In this world,and probably ninety nine percent of our time
is often spent in the conventional mind. But there's also a transcendental line,
and that is the bigger picture.It's as if we were down in the
weeds in the bottom of a mountainand suddenly find ourselves transported to the peak
of that mountain and we look aroundat a panoramic view. Everything looks more
(16:26):
beautiful from a distance, and thatbig picture and big mind. Call it
transcendence, call it enlightenment, whateverwe call it. That has different truths.
So one can say that we havethat time is real. Time passes.
(16:47):
That's a conventional truth, it's observable. But transcendentally speaking, there is
no such thing as passing time.All we have is one present moment or
another. It's the eternal present.Someone can say, wait, I know
the past exists, and I havea photograph of my last birthday party,
(17:08):
but all they're doing is showing mean image in this present moment. So
by handling what's in front of us, rather than getting lost in memories or
imagination, memories of the past orimaginations of the future, we realize reality.
Our moment of power is right now, what's in front of us.
(17:30):
That's what we can control. That'swhen we can act this moment, this
moment and this moment. So inthis paradoxical world we live in where free
will exists conventionally speaking, but youknow, for example, we can make
choices anytime every day, but canwe choose what we're going to choose?
(17:52):
That may possibly be determined? Andthat's the transcendental or big picture truth.
So there are other adox is,like the opposites that I go into in
that particular book. So when youask, is everything unfolding as it should?
Getting back to your question, Ican properly answer it conventionally speaking,
(18:14):
No, No, there's so manythings you or I or listeners would like
to improve or change, whatever ourviews about life, politics, anything else,
there are things we'd like different.But transcendentally speaking, and I've been
I've visited that place. It hitme once on a sidewalk in Berkeley.
I actually discussed this in brief.I mentioned it in the new book in
(18:38):
Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit. I wassitting got a curb on Telegraph Avenue in
Berkeley. I was a college student, a young athlete, and I had
a couple hours before workout, Ihad just like free attention, free space.
I've done my homework. I justwas sitting and enjoying life. And
(18:59):
actually I remember eating it. Iwas eating a grapefood I just bought from
a kind of a local market.And as I was doing that, I
looked at cars dropping by at eyelevel because I was sitting in the curve,
exhaust coming out of the cars,some litter in the streets. And
suddenly, for no reason I candescribe, everything was absolutely perfect. I
(19:22):
was perfect. The world was perfect. Even though the Vietnam War was going
on and all these things were happening. I saw. I could not see
it, but anything less than aperfect part of our lives unfolding so transcendentitely
speaking, it's all divine perfection.We're learning lessons, they're getting dramatic,
(19:45):
and we have to stay with it, continue working with it, and just
stay the course do what we can. I think it will make a huge
difference in our lives as human beingswhen we be again to shift from a
competitive mind me first, to amore collaborative mind. Well, what's for
(20:06):
the highest good of all concerned?What's for the good of our children,
our grandchildren and future generations. Whatdo we really want, not just for
ourselves in the short term, butwhat do we want for the world to
look like? And when we canmake that shift, I think a humanity
had a pretty good chance. Well, wouldn't that be a great place to
(20:30):
come from? Here? You comefrom that kind of place. Well,
and it has me kind of thinking, I mean, you met these four
remarkable mentors. Did you kind ofgo out in search of them or did
they find their way to you?Well, again, a little background here.
When I was young, I wastotally into self improvement. I read
(20:55):
books on vocabulary, building on speedreading. I took courses in memory and
memorizing many objects at one so Ilearned sleight of hand and ventriloquism, and
acrobatics and martial arts. I wasreally into learning and improving myself. One
day, though it's not that Iburned out. I think the better each
(21:17):
of us is, the better itis for the planet. But I realized,
no matter how much I improved myself, only one person that benefited.
But if I could somehow influence otherpeople, that would make my life more
meaningful. I didn't know at thetime how I would do that. I
hadn't written any books. I wasteaching gymnastics and doing gymnastics, but I
(21:37):
just knew that impulse was in me. I guess it was the first calling
as a teacher, even while young, though I had nothing at the time
really to teach but sports. ButI believe that commitment to share whatever I
learned with other people was what openedme up to finding these four radically different
(22:02):
master teachers, one at a time. But the way I met them,
where I go into that in thebook of Course, and why I moved
on are part of the whole story. So let's just say it. It
seemed like apparent coincidences and synchronicities andtiming that I happened to meet these four
(22:23):
different teachers, and I wasn't evenlooking for a teacher. After the first
two. That was ten years ofmy life training in depth a way of
life with a professor and then theGuru, doing an immense number of spiritual
practices and techniques and programs and learningmodels and maps of human consciousness and all
(22:45):
that I was no longer looking fora teacher. I had written Way of
the Peaceful Warrior after that, afterthe influence of the first two teachers,
but then through another coincidence, someonesaid called me up out of the blue.
I'd tell them, and they said, this fellow, his name was
(23:06):
Michael book Binder. He read yourfirst book, Dan, and because I
only had that one book, heread your book and he'd love to meet
you. And he's giving a talkat a local women's center, a women's
club, down too far from you. And so I wasn't even going to
go because I wasn't looking. Itwas no longer really searching for a teacher.
But Joy, you know, thekids were, our little girls were
(23:27):
asleep for the night, and Joewas busy with something and said, Dan,
you know what about this martial artsfellow, this teacher metaphysics guy,
why don't you just drop by there? And I was sure glad I took
her advice, because when I sawhim, it was like meeting a long
lost brother. And we traveled together, we talked together, and and it
(23:49):
says I apprenticed with him as well. He was a dramatic type teacher,
I like any of the others,and then later on I would find the
same age through various changing circumstances.So that's the best way I can respond
to that question. About these fourteachers. By the way, I'm not
claiming they I had the best teachersof ever for anyone could find. Aren't
(24:15):
I lucky? Actually? I don'tbelieve there is a best teacher, or
best book, or best philosophy,or best religion, or best diet or
best system of exercise. I onlybelieve that there is the best for each
of us at a given time ofour lives. So I have complete respect
(24:36):
for each individual and the choices thatthey made finding what's best for them.
And we've all had mentors, rolemodels, and inspiring teachers in our lives.
We might remember one or two orthree teachers from elementary or middle school,
or high school or even college whodemanded our best and who inspired us.
(24:57):
So we've all had mentors. Butthese four represent four radically different approaches
to this spiritual quest which I describedin them book. Is the peaceful heart
warrior spirit kind of a way ofliving and something that you do throughout your
entire lifetime or is this something thatcould be cultivated in a like six months
(25:22):
or year. Oh, it's alifetime practice. I'm still practicing myself.
And I point out in the bookssome humorous incidents that happened. For example,
I was giving a talk in Melbourne, Australia, and I was introduced
to this very large audience. Iwas among other speakers that they invited in
and they said, Dan Milman isan expert in mindfulness from America Mindfulness.
(25:48):
So the first thing I said tothem was, you know, folks,
my wife would beg to differ,because when she sees how I sometimes do
the pots, scrub the pots,or do the dishes. After she makes
us a nice meal, she alwaysfinds spots I missed. So I'm still
practicing mindfulness. By the way,mindfulness has become a kind of thing.
(26:10):
People think, oh, I practicemindfulness, But all it means is just
paying attention to what's going on atthe present moment, without judgments, just
being aware. And when we turninward we call it mindfulness meditation. When
we turn outward into the world,we call it paying attention, noticing what's
around us. There was an interestingphrase the stage offered to me. He
(26:36):
said, when passing by a mirror, notice the frame. What does that
mean? Well, it means mostof us are preoccupied with ourselves. How
do I look? Am I doing? Okay? All about me? And
those who are the happiest in theworld have their attention on other people and
(26:59):
the world and what they'd like tooffer. And so turning our attention mindfully
into the world, I think canbe a very good practice rather than getting
lost in ourselves. So the frameof the mirror represents the outside world and
noticing beauty around us. So thoseare the kinds of practices. This approach
that I came up with, calledthe Peaceful Warrior's Way, is again it's
(27:23):
about all of us, and ittakes place here and now in daily light.
Now you know, anyone obviously who'sinterested and curious about this approach can
always drop by my website. Wecan mention it later if you like,
and there's a life purpose calculating it. It's free. You can just put
in your day of birth and maybegleans and interesting information sampling of what I
(27:45):
have in longer programs and books andso on. So that's and also the
books and my online courses and allthat are can be found at the website.
Why don't you share that website withus? Because I found it to
be such a great resource. Sureit's peaceful Warrior, not surprising dot com.
Peaceful Warrior dot com. That's easyenough to remember. Well, Dan,
(28:10):
thank you so much for taking thetime to be on the show with
us here today. Thanks for givingme the room to write. Well,
thank you, Dan, It's beensuch an honor to spend this time with
you and to talk about your newbook, Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit The True
Story of My spiritual quest. PeacefulHeart Warrior Spirits available at Amazon, barn
(28:33):
to Noble in all indie retailers,and if you don't see it on the
shelf, just ask for them toorder. Of course, remember support our
indie bookstores. You can also pickup this book from the publisher, New
World Library at Newworldlibrary dot com.Well, on that note, we're going
to pause here for a quick momentand we'll be right back after these messages.
(29:08):
I'd like to thank Jason Eastwood atGuitarfulness for sharing his inspiring music and
talent with us. His music isknown worldwide for cultivating atmospheres of harmony,
inner peace, and clarity. VisitJason's website at guitarfulness dot com, join
(29:30):
his newsletter, be part of hiscommunity, and download his music. Well,
we're at the end of our timetoday, I like to thank everyone
for tuning in. You've been listeningto Moments with mary Anne, where we
(29:52):
make every moment count. In asingle moment, your life can change.
(30:14):
Moments with Maryanne is a transformative hourthat covers an endless array of topics with
the best of the best. Herguests are leaders in their fields, ranging
from inspirational authors, top industry leaders, and business and spiritual entrepreneurs. Each
guest is gifted and a true visionary, a recognized leader in her own work
and while teaching others to develop,refocus, and grow, Maryanne will bring
(30:37):
the best guest and sometimes a specialsurprise. Don't miss this. You never
know just which moment will change yourlife forever. Make sure to tune in
and visit Moments with Maryanne dot comfor more information. Game the game, Game
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