Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviews Emily Lynn Paulson author of Hey, Hun: Sales, Sisterhood, Supremacy, and the Other Lies Behind Multilevel Marketing. Why did she quit MLMs even though she made up to $40,000 a month. How it led to her drinking addiction. She used her cancer diagnosis as a MLM opportunity. The truth about how many MLM members break even. The dark side of MLM life: woman selling their houses, judging each other, and more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Money Making Conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's the show that she is the secrets of success
experience firsthand by Marketing and Brandon expert Rashan McDonald. I
will know he's giving me advice on many occasions. And
in case you didn't notice, I'm not broke. You know
he'll be interviewing celebrity CEOs, entrepreneurs and industry decision make
because it's what he likes to do, it's what he
likes to share. Now it's time to hear from my man,
Rashan McDonald money Making Conversations.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Hi, this is Rashaan McDonald. Was so eloquently spoken by
the one and only. Hey, I welcome to money Making
Conversation masterclass. Wow, you know I have a great show today.
I feel I have a great show every time I
opened his mic, so I kind of like put myself down,
Like I said, I got a great show today. Rashawn,
you you need to look.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
In the mirror.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Brother.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
You just kind of slammed yourself. Now, just kidding. I
think today is as it is every week. There's no
perfect time to start following your dreams. Because I recognize
that we all have different definitions of success for you.
It may be the size of your paycheck mine is
inspiring you to accomplish your goals and live your very
best life. It's time to stop reading other people's success
stories and start.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Living your own.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
People always talk about their purpose a gift. You know,
if you have a gift, not gifts, because a lot
of people say gifts. You have to be focused. Focus,
focus on one thing, get it right, then move on.
Don't focus on a lot of things and get them
all wrong. Lead with that gift, and don't let your friends, family,
or co worker stop you from planning or living your dreams.
Let's get money making conversations started. First guest, you know
(01:35):
it's going to be Emily Lynn Pauls, and she would
take us into the world of multi level of marketing,
which I know nothing about. It's going to be an interview.
I don't want you guys to miss You can't miss it. Emily,
she's on the line right now.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
She's waiting.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
She's waiting to talk to Reshans. She's waiting to tell
everybody her life experiences in that world. And it's a
great book. I read the book. It's a very thick book.
So if you're a person who likes to read little
bitty books do not. Her book is great. It'll keep
you focus because it's very funny, it's very uh whoh,
it's a lot and it's great. And then second guest
guess would be me. I'll be on the show today
(02:08):
of Coase. She said with Shane, you're always on the
show because you're hosting the show. Ah, well, yes, yes, yes,
but you'll be able to talk to me today because
I want to talk about how to be a successful
business owner. Wow, I'm gonna tell you the mistakes I
made because in order to be successful in anything, I'm
just gonna tell you you have to have made mistakes.
We are gonna get this show started. She is on
(02:30):
the line. My guess is Emily Lynn Paulsen. She's the
author of Heyhun Sales, Sisterhood Supremacy, and the Other Lines
behind Multi Level of Marketing. Emily signed up for this
Sisterhood free cars, the promise of a successful business of
her own. Instead, she ended up with an addiction, broken friendships,
and the rubble of a topo pyramid scheme. My guest
(02:51):
rose to the top and in her tell all book
you read about an eye opening, funny and dangerous personal
story rising to the top of the pyramid world and
multi level marketing as we all know of it. I
know nothing about this. Please welcome to the money making
Conversation master class I spoke to earlier. She's passionate about
what she has to say. Emily Land Paulson, how are
you doing, Emily?
Speaker 5 (03:12):
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, Emily, where are you based at?
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I am actually in central Oregon, so other coast.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I've been out there. I've been to Portland, Oregon a
couple of times. Really really really woos the.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Area up, a lot of good fishing and hunting, correct,
am I.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
Right, that's right, yp So.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
You've always lived up in the in that area of
the country. Did you go to college up there? Schooling
up there? What keeps you in Portland, Oregon? Because I'm
assuming it's not Portland, organ is Central Oregon? Because the family,
I'm sure keeping you up there now.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Yeah, you know, I've kind of been all around. I
grew up in Montana, was in California, then I was
on Pennsylvania for a while in Seattle. This is really
just where we kind of met in the middle. We
wanted a little more world can you.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
All West coast. See, I think you've kind of doted
over the Pennsylvania. Now what what what made you dot
over the Pennsylvania and drug you right back? You said
my Dana Califonia see at Pennsylvania. Hold hold, hold old.
How did you get to Pennsylvania and what made you
go back?
Speaker 5 (04:19):
It was a little detour. So it was my husband's
job took us out there outside of Philadelphia and we
loved it. We loved it, and then it was his
job took us back. So we've been mostly on this
side of the country.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Cool. Well great.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I'm based in Atlanta and my show is UH is
streamed and is also a podcast, is live right now
and I try to bring on guests that tell to
educate me. And the first thing I got to ask
is what is multi level marketing?
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Yeah? So multi level marketing, you know their corporations and
they use a business model that involves getting contractors, so
just people, do you sign up to independent contractor sell
product the family and friends, and then they recruit other
people to do the same. So you know, it's different
in direct selling. You know, just selling a product to
(05:09):
one person direct from the company. Is that you have
these levels of pay, and you're rewarded for recruiting other
people to sell the same thing. So it's the multi
level thing that makes it different from just regular sales.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
So now I've always heard this all my life from insurance.
People try to get me to sell insurance, but there's
always tied to you, well, you got to get more
people to sell. That way you get more people. Then
also you make money off the people you get. Is
that am I mistaking?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
That's it?
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Nope, that's that's it. Yep.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So I so the whole purpose with people have always
approached me about multi level marketing. If I always said, hey,
we'll show they're making money over there. Brother, you're missing out.
I said, who over there? What do you got to
We'll see what happens. Is you you you selling insurance,
but really you sell insured, but you want to get
other people beneath you, and then you want those people
beneath you to get other people beneath them, and then
(06:02):
you want people another level underneath you. So now you've
got all these levels beneath you, which enables you to
get paid based on their efforts.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Correct exactly?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Wow, and how did you get involved with that? Does
you sound like, you pretty smart to me. When I
when they told me that I ran, I ran for
the heels. I went, oh, I'm not going to do this.
This is just sounds weird to me. It means that
that means that I'm telling other people that just work,
so I won't work technically.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Correct, right right. Well, so the idea is that you know,
you you're basically going into business with your friends and family.
That's how it sold, right, And I think part of
the reason is, you know, like you, I didn't really
understand what it was at first either, and instead of
maybe doing more research on my end, I thought, Hey,
(06:54):
here's my friend who's telling me about this, and I
trust her. She seems trustworthy. I don't think she'd lead
me astray. And I thought, you know what, what's the harm?
What's the harm in trying this out? So I really
kind of ran with ignorance, I guess in the beginning,
instead of you know, like you did, run the other direction.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Right, But it's but it's the call of potential money
making opportunities.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
They pique your interest. That's what piqued my interests, you.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Know, because because because everybody who's making money is very
vocal about it a very they live, they drive nice cars,
they live in a good house.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
They're very and almost like religious about it. They preach
on it.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
They almost like make you feel like you missing out
an opportunity, like you're not a smart person for participating.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Mm hmm. Well, and you hear the stories of the
very very very small percentage at the top, and you
hear so you hear it so much that you think, oh,
this must be most people's experience, because that's what I'm hearing.
But what you don't hear is that you know, ninety
nine percent of people are not there, They're not at
the pinnacle, right, So you kind of hold on to
this hope. Well, gosh, I could be that person, I
(08:06):
could drive that car, I could make all that money.
It could be me right right.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, guess what, hey, hun Sales Sister, who is Supremacy
and the other lines behind multi level Marketing? I'm speaking
to Emilyley and Paulson about this book, And the reason
I brought on the show was that, you know, we
hear a lot of but we always want to get
to that finish line. We always want to be able
to make a lot of money in our life. Well,
you walked away from forty thousand dollars a month.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You quit. That's a lot of money.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
It is, it is, And you know that was at
one period of time. I didn't make that every month
of the entire time. You know, that's one thing about
multi level marketing too. It fluctuates a lot, and it's
you know, very it's like a house of cards built
on sand really like. So for me, I got to
this place where I was doing all the things and
(08:58):
it was working for me. So I was in that
very small percentage, and I assumed because it had worked
for me, that other people, if they did the same
thing I did, it would work for them too. And
over time I realized, well, shoot, this is not working
for other people. Why not? And it was because mathematically
it couldn't. You know, there's only so many people. Things
get saturated. And I really was making money because so
(09:24):
many other people were losing money. And that was a
realization that made me, you know, make my exit.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Okay, cool, now, all let's started for you. Twenty fourteen,
I believe that's when I've read in the book yep
or twenty fourteen and.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Walk us through the steps. Where were you in your
life before you got into this world. Were you happy?
Were you working?
Speaker 6 (09:44):
You?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Did you use marriage? You had kids? What did you
Were you looking for a part time job? Are we
looking for extra income? What pushed you in this direction
that made you just take off the blinders and just
see nothing but the opportunity.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Yeah? Yeah, So I was, you know, a stay at
home mom. I had been out of the workforce for
almost ten years because I, you know, stayed at home
with the kids and my husband, you know, traditional kind
of roles. He worked out of the house, and I
really just I wanted something like I just wanted some
escape from the mundane. I wanted to be able to contribute.
(10:21):
You know. It had been a long time since I'd
had any recognition for anything really, and so when this
came into my life, it was it kind of filled
all those pain points. It was like, Okay, well this
is it could be potential money. You know, there's some
really cool products that I could use. It's something outside
of what I'm doing now. It gives me a little
(10:43):
escape to go do something, meet with friends, you know,
go have wine whatever, go to these like retention events.
And I thought, you know, I just I just had
hope that it could be something, and then it was
packaged up with this community of other women who were
all doing the same thing. So it really just fell
into my lafe this time when I think I was
just lonely, I was looking for other options, and I
(11:05):
just had a lot of hope that it could fill all.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Those needs lonely though. Yeah, what was the product?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
So, yeah, it was wellness skincare. You know, there was
a kind of a wide range of products, but it
was mostly you know, skincare products.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, I've been approached with the vitamins. I've been through coffee,
I've been approached. The very first time I was approached
was insurance. I remember I was in college. It was
insurance in bar. I'm just letting everybody know. You know,
it's not trapped to a white community or a Hispanic
community or a black community. Its multi level marketing is everywhere.
It's everywhere, and it's whoever was pitching that story. But
(11:43):
it's always the person at the top of the pair,
a bit at the top of it that's singing the
highest praises about making money. Because the more people that
get underneath them, then guess what the money goes up.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
That's the whole process.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
So their their role is to convince thousand people that
being underneath them and they live in the wealth of
your hard work. And so you're in So you so
you were you excited?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
You somebody told you they do you go to a class?
Did you go to a seminar? Did you do something
on the line? How did you get your training?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
You know, there really isn't any training. You're just joining
up a friend and you basically are signing your your
social Security number and your credit card number and and
you're basically doing you know, you're putting your livelihood into
this person's hands. And so they're telling you kind of
well you're smart.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Okay, I go, you're smart now, you know, so you
walk right into this. I heard the word lonely in there,
so I can under you susceptible whenever the emotions are
tied to decisions, okay. And so now this is a stranger, correct.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
It was actually a friend. It was a friend from
high school, you know, a distant friend, but someone who
you know was raised in the same town. I was
in someone who I trusted and I had this supposed
proof on social media that she was succeeding. And so
I kind of trusted that if I did what she
said that that would work for me too.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And what was what would work for you.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I'm just asking these questions because you know the story,
and I'm just trying to pull the story out of
you a little bit more detailed because of the fact
that you know in some ways, you know there's there's
a bigger story behind all this because a lot of
people are falling. I want to use the word victim
because we all make decisions. And you know, if I'd
have chose to get into selling insurance, or selling coffee
(13:38):
or selling vitamins, that was my decision. It's when you
get in and how the approach of how you have
to be successful is what the decision that made you
come out of it?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Come out of it. But it took you a while.
How long were you in the in the How long
were you selling?
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Almost seven years?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Okay, so he was in there for a minute. Now,
you didn't just dive in and just come on back
out there.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Oh No, I was in deep. I was in really deep.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So for twenty fourteen, twenty twenty one, basically you was
in the world of multi level marketing. Now let's talk
about because everything's based on I don't want to use
any words that sound negative, but everything's based on a pyramid.
You know a lot of people at the bottom and
you go up to the top. How did you start
building your your Could I use the word followers or
(14:30):
your sales team?
Speaker 5 (14:31):
Yeah? Yeah, certainly followers are downline. It's usually called downline.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
How did you start building that?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Honestly, I did the same thing that my friend who
you know had me, who enrolled me did. I just
started talking to people. I started talking to my friends.
And one thing that I had going for me is
that in the area I was living in at the time,
and I was living in Seattle at the time, there
were not a lot of people who knew about this company,
who knew about these products. So I had that on
(14:59):
my as When people heard of this, they're like, oh,
those look cool, I've never heard of this before. Sure
I'll try them, And so I didn't. I wasn't competing
with anybody, and so I had that going for me.
I also had going for me the fact that you know,
first of all, these are all buy in organizations. You
have to pay to play. So I bought the whatever
thousand dollars kits to join. Wow, right, not cheap? Right,
(15:23):
these like these things are not inexpensive to join. But
again that's all danced around because you know you're getting
all this products and you get to try everything. And
to me, I was kind of like, oh sure, I
like all this stuff. You know, why the heck not?
And I obviously you know, so I had that going
for me. I had the.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Privilege thought, I want to go to this break and
when we come back, I want to finish this conversation
because what happens if I let me let you continue,
you won't finish the thought.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
You are now tuned into the money making conversations.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Minute of Inspiration with Rashawn McDonald La.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Nay Love what You Pray of You A and M
University and You Texas for about four years and got
her engineering degree. Lonnie worked as an engineer for IBM
and other companies for more than ten years. Did she
realized that engineering was not her passion. Stand up comedy
was her gift.
Speaker 7 (16:11):
I just think everybody should tell their journey, and especially
people of color. People don't understand how hard it is
for us to make it. That's why I want everybody,
especially during the pandemic, to share their story, you know,
and so this is my story. I grew up in
Detroit and the Brewster Projects, and it just takes you
through that whole life thing, because you know, some people
(16:32):
only know me from real or from Chelsea Ladley or
you know the shows that Rashan will put me on.
So but you know, it's a whole journey.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
If you want to hear this full interview with Lonnie Love,
visit Moneymaking Conversations dot com.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Keep winning.
Speaker 6 (16:51):
Now let's return to Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rashan McDonald.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Thank you for returning. And I'm speaking of Emily Lynn
Paul's about her journey. You know, she has a background
as a chemist. She's an advocate for the truth. She
talks about in her book The Journey of this fascinating
World of Multi Level Marketing. She sees it as a
cult and the virality of misinformation. And they preyed upon
her and she felt her world of isolation because she
(17:17):
was a stay at home mom and that isolation they
use a lot on a lot of women who will
stay at home mom all feel isolated. And as you
as you were telling your story about getting involved, that
that played a major role in you you spend a
thousand dollars, so you immediately got to recoup your investment, correct.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Yeah, yeah, you got to recoup the investments. And that's
why a lot of people don't ever make money, because
you're starting out in the negative to begin with.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Right.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
So for me, it was you know, talking to friends
and family and trying to get them to try the
products I was selling and trying to get them to
join the same way I did. And what happened, well,
you know, just as luck I should have it. In
my case, I did have friends who are interested, and
like I trusted my upline who I joined, you know,
(18:07):
they trusted me. They said, well, you join this so
you know you're a smart person, right like, you wouldn't
lead us astray. And so they joined as well, and
so pretty quickly I recoup my investments and then started
you know the love bombing where I was getting you know,
mentioned in team newsletters and tagged on social media, and
(18:28):
I was getting little gifts in the mail, and I
was all of a sudden getting you know, rewarded and uh,
you know noticed for things that I hadn't been noticed
for in a really long time.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
So you're saying that. Now, let me ask you this.
Let me ask you to Emily, this book is about
this book you wrote. Okay, you just talked about your
level of isolation, your level of insecurities, and like I said,
pick attention. That's being brought to you. A stay at
home mom, a great stay at home mom. You know
you educated obviously because I mentioned you a chemist. So
(19:01):
is this something just happened to you or this can
happen to anyone.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Well, that's gonna happen to anybody. It really can. And
you know, there's a reason that a lot of the
stories in multi level marketing start just like mine, like
oh I was lonely and then I joined, or you know,
I had just lost my job and then I joined,
or just gotten divorced. It really does. There's a lot
of pain points and MLMs really do prey on that vulnerability.
(19:29):
So anyone in any kind of vulnerable position is susceptible.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Now in twenty fourteen, there's a journey in all this.
You're getting your friends, the people you know, and they
getting their friends people they know, They getting relatives and
love would underneath them.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
That's what the whole that's how multi level of marketing works.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
You get other people to be underneath you, they get
other people being underneath them.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
That's how it works.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
So now what I immediately hear is that you've invited your
friends to this world. They committed. One thousand dollars can
get you a certain kind of a way, okay, but
you get you Your success is being reaped off the
fact that you brought them on.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Bull mm hmm exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Now when did they start looking at you sideways?
Speaker 5 (20:14):
So you know, I I kind of started looking at
the sideways when I was, you know, coaching them, just
like I was being coached to, you know, reach out
to people to you know, do these cold calls to
do all this income producing activity and personal development. And
yet they weren't growing the same way I was. And
you know, mathematically they couldn't because obviously we were in
(20:36):
the same network trying to recruit the same people, and
it just doesn't work that way. So, you know, a
lot of those platitudes like you know, take it till
you make it and you know, just keep grinding, you know,
you'll right, like it's you hear a lot of those things,
and a lot of those things are repeated, so you
just think, gosh, if I just keep working harder. It's
(20:58):
this meritocracy where you know you don't want to quit
because you think, if I just did one more thing,
one more cold call, maybe that will be the thing
that you know, pushes me over the edge, it makes
me successful.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
And that's why you were saying okay, because we mentioned
in your bio it said, you know, you made up
to forty thousand dollars a month. You used to reach
on hold up, hold up, hold up. I didn't do
that every month, but once you start making money, you
kind of like hooked. So if you made up to
forty thousand dollars a money, the possibilities starts to drive you.
At what point in the in this lane of opportunities
(21:29):
from twenty fourteen to twenty to twenty one, did you
feel you peaked as a representative or as a person
in emaill.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
I would say twenty seventeen. And you know, something interesting
happened at that point is I got sober, which you
write obviously read in the book. And that was a
big part of my awakening, really was I wasn't drinking anymore.
I wasn't, you know, sending cold messages after having a
couple of glasses champagne, and I realized I started seeing
(21:59):
a lot of this stuff. I started seeing that my
team wasn't really succeeding the same way that I was.
And that's when, you know, slowly kind of the wheels
started calling off the bus a little bit.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Now it says you got cancer, correct, yep. Now I
I'm a cancer survivor twenty fifteen. Not to make you
feel guilty or anything, what type of cancer did you get?
Speaker 5 (22:26):
I had cervical cancer.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Okay, mine was thyroid cancer and I was twenty fifteen,
and I went through the surgery, and I feel, you.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Know, you know, a cancer, no one says one cure.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
As long as you live in life and taking the pills,
then you live a good life and pray that everything
continues to go your way. But cancer is powerful because
once they tell you have cancer, you can just run
you up the heels and make you wonder what's going
to happen to you next? Now you got cancer, and
use it for pity to grow your MLL business base.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
How and why?
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Yeah? So again, like I said, the really the low
point is always used, right, So you're already primed to
look for people's vulnerabilities and so when I found out
I had cancer, it's my upline, and other people in
the company suggested like, hey, how can we make something
good out of this? And of course I'm thinking like,
(23:23):
well that would be great. You know, I'd love a distraction.
What you know, what can I do? And so it
suggested like, hey, well why don't you have a little
like event and then you can give your your portions
of your profit to charity. And like, on its face,
that sounds all lovely and good, but it's requiring people
(23:43):
to buy something from a company that then benefits, you know,
all of the people in the upline.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Fundraiser basically, right, a fundraiser.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
For the product, right right, right. And you know, obviously
I donated my profit. You know, I made good on
my donation, but it still gave me a signal boosts
in the company. It still gave all of my uplines money,
and you know, obviously benefits the company the most because
it benefits the people at the top the most. And
so trying to do something that like seemed charitable. But
(24:13):
I could have just said, hey, do you want to
donate twenty dollars in this charity. I didn't have to
rope in a product purchase. So you know, look, it
made you look.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Good and you got the hype, you got the sale,
you got the you know, the moving on up the lane.
You got more people involved, and you knew the fact
that every time I told somebody I had cancer, then
people wanted to somehow rescue me. I'm just talking personally,
wanted they felt sympathy for me. They always said what
can I do for you? So when you announced that,
(24:44):
then you had the perfect lane of opportunity and you
basically took advantage of it. I'm not saying you're a
bad person, but that's what that's what can do. That's
what can happen when you tell people you have cancer.
And so at that point, why.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Did you did you? Did you?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I'm sure guilt took over right and feel and you
first started feeling bad?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Correct, Yeah, And this was again like when I when
I stopped drinking. This is when a lot of these
things kind of started to hit me. Like, you know,
that wasn't on the up and up. And you know, again,
when you're when you put your trust into these people,
you know in this I would say commercial cults. You know,
in this group that you're listening and repeating everything they're saying,
(25:30):
and you're being coachable, and you're doing what they're telling
you to do. It's really easy to just fall into
that trap of Okay, you know, you say this is
a good idea and it seems like a good idea,
and then looking back and realizing, you know what, that
wasn't such a great idea.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Now, let me ask you this, Emily, how did you
get out? Because to me, it's like seven years.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
That's a lot of people you you, and I'm sure
there's a lot of people underneath you, a lot of friends,
a lot of cousins, a lot of their friends. And
then can you just like walk away and say I'm out?
Don't they feel like angry?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
Yeah? Oh, it was a long process of you know,
waking up and realizing you know that that was part
of it, is like, wow, I've brought so many people
into this, how can I just leave? You know, I
stayed in for a long time.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Kind of well, that kind of like validated its reality
because you was in for a long time. You know,
people just don't hang around something that's not good or
just the deceptive that long and so and so you
were in there, like you said twenty fourteen or twenty
twenty one, five years, six years, seven years, I'm I'm
if you tell me this is a good thing you've
(26:35):
been at five years, I'm going to listen.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I'm going to listen.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
And so now, you know, but if you're telling me
you leaving and I'm I'm following your advice, did, I
will tell you right now I'm mad at you.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Mm hmm. Yeah. So yeah, I was, you know, just
real honest about the process. As I was kind of
realizing that I didn't like a lot of the behaviors anymore.
You know, I stopped doing the cold calling and the
reaching out, and I didn't recruit people anymore, and I
didn't sell the products anymore. I didn't terminate my account,
I didn't leave, but I, you know, talk to my customers.
(27:09):
I talk to people on my team and just say, hey,
you know, I'm I'm uncomfortable with uncomfortable with this. I'm
not going to be actively selling this anymore. I'm basically
going to go dark. And I kind of assumed, like
I'll just stay, you know, until my paycheck drives up
and then that'll be it. Right And then obviously, like
I decided to kind of go into recovery advocacy. I
(27:31):
put this on the back burner COVID happened. I mean
it was kind of like this whole series of events,
and you know, during COVID, I really realized I could
not be associated anymore because there was so much problematic
and predatory activity in MLM that that's what made me finally,
I'll sign it. Send in the termination form.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
We'll be right back with more money making Converse Stations
Masterclass with Rushawn McDonald.
Speaker 8 (28:03):
HBCUs represent Black Excellence. If you attend or are an
alumnus of an HBCU, we want to hear.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
About your story.
Speaker 8 (28:11):
The MYHBCU Story digital Library will allow current HBCU students
and alumni to share their stories. Registration is open to everyone.
More information is available at HBCU college day dot com.
Click my HBCU Story. Next, you can upload a photo.
The photo can be recent or from when you attended
your HBCU. Then share your academic or social experience at
(28:35):
your HBCU, which can be your favorite class, hangout, joint,
homecoming game, student center, honor, off campus party, Greek show,
and how attending an HBCU changed your life. We also
want to hear stories if you pleasure a fraternity or sorority.
The goal is to use your my HBCU story to
promote and uplift the HBCU brand. Your HBCU prepared you
(28:59):
for success, and now we want everyone to read about
your black excellence. More information is available at HBCU College
day dot com. You can click my HBCU story to
share your story.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
Now let's return to Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rashaun McDonald.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Wow, you know, Abily or you know, I want to
thank you for coming on my show. And I'm just
just saying that because you know, you told me a
side of you that is uncomfortable, you know, because it
sounds kind of manipulative. It sounds kind of like, you know,
you did what you wanted to do to be successful,
(29:38):
and then a lot of it was tied to drinking
a lot of an addiction and you once you once
you cleared up that addiction, you started to see your
world a lot clearer and it took you on the
path of I want to say, redemption.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Is that the grect word?
Speaker 7 (29:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (29:53):
You know, I just try and at this point, like
do the next right thing and you know believe, I
really believe like the best apology has changed behavior, and
that was really my reasoning behind writing the book, Like
I fully throw myself under the bus, you know, just
say like, hey, I was complicit in this, I did this,
and this is why you need to hear about it,
because this is what goes on and this is what
(30:14):
to look out for.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Well, well, you know, one day for sure, as my
listeners are listening to this, what advice would you give
them them if somebody approaches them about an MLM. Let
me ask you this. First of all, what do you
need to look for to make that will let you know?
Is an email a multi level marketing platform? What should
they look at?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Yeah, So if you have a person talking to you
wanting to join a business right you know, and asking
you for a buy in, if you have to pay
to join, I mean that's a pretty big red flag,
you know. Look, you can always just give it a
little Google like say is this blank company in MLM
and you'll find out. But generally, if you have to
(30:58):
sign the dotted line and join, you have a sponsor
or an upline that is a multi level marketing company.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
You know, my daughter I remember when she graduated from college. Recently,
she like, there are a lot of people are using
it as kind of like a form of employment opportunity,
and so she was going in they were saying her
sal it was fifty thousand dollars a year or sixty
thousand dollars a year, and she gotta make all these
cold calls.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
She had to buy this.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
So I just tell everybody is a lot of people
are using this as a form of employment. They call
it an employment, but it's not really employment. And like
you said, doe to research Google a company and it
will help you get there. But more importantly, if you
have time, and I recommend that you have time, Emily,
how can we reach out to you? And if where
can we buy this book as it don't sell right now,
(31:44):
Hey Hans.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
You know what, it comes out in one week, but
you can pre order it anywhere. You know, always support
your local bookstore if you can. And I'm on all
platforms at Emily Lynn Paulsen.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Well, Emily Lynn Paulson, thank you for coming on Money
Making Conversations her book, Hey Hans, Sisterhood, Supremacy and other
Lies behind multi level Marketing. Thank you for coming on
money making a conversation mar Basterclass, you are fantastic.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
Thanks for having me, Thank you for joining us for
this edition of Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Money Making Conversations
(32:29):
Masterclass with rough Shan McDonald is produced by thirty eight
to fifteen Media Inc. More information about thirty eight to
fifteen Media Inc. Is available at thirty eight to fifteen
media dot com. And always remember to lead with your
gifts
Welcome to Money Making Conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's the show that she is the secrets of success
experience firsthand by Marketing and Brandon expert Rashan McDonald. I
will know he's giving me advice on many occasions. And
in case you didn't notice, I'm not broke. You know
he'll be interviewing celebrity CEOs, entrepreneurs and industry decision make
because it's what he likes to do, it's what he
likes to share. Now it's time to hear from my man,
Rashan McDonald money Making Conversations.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Hi, this is Rashaan McDonald. Was so eloquently spoken by
the one and only. Hey, I welcome to money Making
Conversation masterclass. Wow, you know I have a great show today.
I feel I have a great show every time I
opened his mic, so I kind of like put myself down,
Like I said, I got a great show today. Rashawn,
you you need to look.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
In the mirror.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Brother.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
You just kind of slammed yourself. Now, just kidding. I
think today is as it is every week. There's no
perfect time to start following your dreams. Because I recognize
that we all have different definitions of success for you.
It may be the size of your paycheck mine is
inspiring you to accomplish your goals and live your very
best life. It's time to stop reading other people's success
stories and start.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Living your own.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
People always talk about their purpose a gift. You know,
if you have a gift, not gifts, because a lot
of people say gifts. You have to be focused. Focus,
focus on one thing, get it right, then move on.
Don't focus on a lot of things and get them
all wrong. Lead with that gift, and don't let your friends, family,
or co worker stop you from planning or living your dreams.
Let's get money making conversations started. First guest, you know
(01:35):
it's going to be Emily Lynn Pauls, and she would
take us into the world of multi level of marketing,
which I know nothing about. It's going to be an interview.
I don't want you guys to miss You can't miss it. Emily,
she's on the line right now.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
She's waiting.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
She's waiting to talk to Reshans. She's waiting to tell
everybody her life experiences in that world. And it's a
great book. I read the book. It's a very thick book.
So if you're a person who likes to read little
bitty books do not. Her book is great. It'll keep
you focus because it's very funny, it's very uh whoh,
it's a lot and it's great. And then second guest
guess would be me. I'll be on the show today
(02:08):
of Coase. She said with Shane, you're always on the
show because you're hosting the show. Ah, well, yes, yes, yes,
but you'll be able to talk to me today because
I want to talk about how to be a successful
business owner. Wow, I'm gonna tell you the mistakes I
made because in order to be successful in anything, I'm
just gonna tell you you have to have made mistakes.
We are gonna get this show started. She is on
(02:30):
the line. My guess is Emily Lynn Paulsen. She's the
author of Heyhun Sales, Sisterhood Supremacy, and the Other Lines
behind Multi Level of Marketing. Emily signed up for this
Sisterhood free cars, the promise of a successful business of
her own. Instead, she ended up with an addiction, broken friendships,
and the rubble of a topo pyramid scheme. My guest
(02:51):
rose to the top and in her tell all book
you read about an eye opening, funny and dangerous personal
story rising to the top of the pyramid world and
multi level marketing as we all know of it. I
know nothing about this. Please welcome to the money making
Conversation master class I spoke to earlier. She's passionate about
what she has to say. Emily Land Paulson, how are
you doing, Emily?
Speaker 5 (03:12):
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, Emily, where are you based at?
Speaker 5 (03:17):
I am actually in central Oregon, so other coast.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I've been out there. I've been to Portland, Oregon a
couple of times. Really really really woos the.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Area up, a lot of good fishing and hunting, correct,
am I.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
Right, that's right, yp So.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
You've always lived up in the in that area of
the country. Did you go to college up there? Schooling
up there? What keeps you in Portland, Oregon? Because I'm
assuming it's not Portland, organ is Central Oregon? Because the family,
I'm sure keeping you up there now.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Yeah, you know, I've kind of been all around. I
grew up in Montana, was in California, then I was
on Pennsylvania for a while in Seattle. This is really
just where we kind of met in the middle. We
wanted a little more world can you.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
All West coast. See, I think you've kind of doted
over the Pennsylvania. Now what what what made you dot
over the Pennsylvania and drug you right back? You said
my Dana Califonia see at Pennsylvania. Hold hold, hold old.
How did you get to Pennsylvania and what made you
go back?
Speaker 5 (04:19):
It was a little detour. So it was my husband's
job took us out there outside of Philadelphia and we
loved it. We loved it, and then it was his
job took us back. So we've been mostly on this
side of the country.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Cool. Well great.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I'm based in Atlanta and my show is UH is
streamed and is also a podcast, is live right now
and I try to bring on guests that tell to
educate me. And the first thing I got to ask
is what is multi level marketing?
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Yeah? So multi level marketing, you know their corporations and
they use a business model that involves getting contractors, so
just people, do you sign up to independent contractor sell
product the family and friends, and then they recruit other
people to do the same. So you know, it's different
in direct selling. You know, just selling a product to
(05:09):
one person direct from the company. Is that you have
these levels of pay, and you're rewarded for recruiting other
people to sell the same thing. So it's the multi
level thing that makes it different from just regular sales.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Right.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
So now I've always heard this all my life from insurance.
People try to get me to sell insurance, but there's
always tied to you, well, you got to get more
people to sell. That way you get more people. Then
also you make money off the people you get. Is
that am I mistaking?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
That's it?
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Nope, that's that's it. Yep.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So I so the whole purpose with people have always
approached me about multi level marketing. If I always said, hey,
we'll show they're making money over there. Brother, you're missing out.
I said, who over there? What do you got to
We'll see what happens. Is you you you selling insurance,
but really you sell insured, but you want to get
other people beneath you, and then you want those people
beneath you to get other people beneath them, and then
(06:02):
you want people another level underneath you. So now you've
got all these levels beneath you, which enables you to
get paid based on their efforts.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Correct exactly?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Wow, and how did you get involved with that? Does
you sound like, you pretty smart to me. When I
when they told me that I ran, I ran for
the heels. I went, oh, I'm not going to do this.
This is just sounds weird to me. It means that
that means that I'm telling other people that just work,
so I won't work technically.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Correct, right right. Well, so the idea is that you know,
you you're basically going into business with your friends and family.
That's how it sold, right, And I think part of
the reason is, you know, like you, I didn't really
understand what it was at first either, and instead of
maybe doing more research on my end, I thought, Hey,
(06:54):
here's my friend who's telling me about this, and I
trust her. She seems trustworthy. I don't think she'd lead
me astray. And I thought, you know what, what's the harm?
What's the harm in trying this out? So I really
kind of ran with ignorance, I guess in the beginning,
instead of you know, like you did, run the other direction.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Right, But it's but it's the call of potential money
making opportunities.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
They pique your interest. That's what piqued my interests, you.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Know, because because because everybody who's making money is very
vocal about it a very they live, they drive nice cars,
they live in a good house.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
They're very and almost like religious about it. They preach
on it.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
They almost like make you feel like you missing out
an opportunity, like you're not a smart person for participating.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Mm hmm. Well, and you hear the stories of the
very very very small percentage at the top, and you
hear so you hear it so much that you think, oh,
this must be most people's experience, because that's what I'm hearing.
But what you don't hear is that you know, ninety
nine percent of people are not there, They're not at
the pinnacle, right, So you kind of hold on to
this hope. Well, gosh, I could be that person, I
(08:06):
could drive that car, I could make all that money.
It could be me right right.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, guess what, hey, hun Sales Sister, who is Supremacy
and the other lines behind multi level Marketing? I'm speaking
to Emilyley and Paulson about this book, And the reason
I brought on the show was that, you know, we
hear a lot of but we always want to get
to that finish line. We always want to be able
to make a lot of money in our life. Well,
you walked away from forty thousand dollars a month.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
You quit. That's a lot of money.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
It is, it is, And you know that was at
one period of time. I didn't make that every month
of the entire time. You know, that's one thing about
multi level marketing too. It fluctuates a lot, and it's
you know, very it's like a house of cards built
on sand really like. So for me, I got to
this place where I was doing all the things and
(08:58):
it was working for me. So I was in that
very small percentage, and I assumed because it had worked
for me, that other people, if they did the same
thing I did, it would work for them too. And
over time I realized, well, shoot, this is not working
for other people. Why not? And it was because mathematically
it couldn't. You know, there's only so many people. Things
get saturated. And I really was making money because so
(09:24):
many other people were losing money. And that was a
realization that made me, you know, make my exit.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Okay, cool, now, all let's started for you. Twenty fourteen,
I believe that's when I've read in the book yep
or twenty fourteen and.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Walk us through the steps. Where were you in your
life before you got into this world. Were you happy?
Were you working?
Speaker 6 (09:44):
You?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Did you use marriage? You had kids? What did you
Were you looking for a part time job? Are we
looking for extra income? What pushed you in this direction
that made you just take off the blinders and just
see nothing but the opportunity.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Yeah? Yeah, So I was, you know, a stay at
home mom. I had been out of the workforce for
almost ten years because I, you know, stayed at home
with the kids and my husband, you know, traditional kind
of roles. He worked out of the house, and I
really just I wanted something like I just wanted some
escape from the mundane. I wanted to be able to contribute.
(10:21):
You know. It had been a long time since I'd
had any recognition for anything really, and so when this
came into my life, it was it kind of filled
all those pain points. It was like, Okay, well this
is it could be potential money. You know, there's some
really cool products that I could use. It's something outside
of what I'm doing now. It gives me a little
(10:43):
escape to go do something, meet with friends, you know,
go have wine whatever, go to these like retention events.
And I thought, you know, I just I just had
hope that it could be something, and then it was
packaged up with this community of other women who were
all doing the same thing. So it really just fell
into my lafe this time when I think I was
just lonely, I was looking for other options, and I
(11:05):
just had a lot of hope that it could fill all.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Those needs lonely though. Yeah, what was the product?
Speaker 5 (11:14):
So, yeah, it was wellness skincare. You know, there was
a kind of a wide range of products, but it
was mostly you know, skincare products.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Yeah, I've been approached with the vitamins. I've been through coffee,
I've been approached. The very first time I was approached
was insurance. I remember I was in college. It was
insurance in bar. I'm just letting everybody know. You know,
it's not trapped to a white community or a Hispanic
community or a black community. Its multi level marketing is everywhere.
It's everywhere, and it's whoever was pitching that story. But
(11:43):
it's always the person at the top of the pair,
a bit at the top of it that's singing the
highest praises about making money. Because the more people that
get underneath them, then guess what the money goes up.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
That's the whole process.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
So their their role is to convince thousand people that
being underneath them and they live in the wealth of
your hard work. And so you're in So you so
you were you excited?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
You somebody told you they do you go to a class?
Did you go to a seminar? Did you do something
on the line? How did you get your training?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
You know, there really isn't any training. You're just joining
up a friend and you basically are signing your your
social Security number and your credit card number and and
you're basically doing you know, you're putting your livelihood into
this person's hands. And so they're telling you kind of
well you're smart.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Okay, I go, you're smart now, you know, so you
walk right into this. I heard the word lonely in there,
so I can under you susceptible whenever the emotions are
tied to decisions, okay. And so now this is a stranger, correct.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
It was actually a friend. It was a friend from
high school, you know, a distant friend, but someone who
you know was raised in the same town. I was
in someone who I trusted and I had this supposed
proof on social media that she was succeeding. And so
I kind of trusted that if I did what she
said that that would work for me too.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
And what was what would work for you.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I'm just asking these questions because you know the story,
and I'm just trying to pull the story out of
you a little bit more detailed because of the fact
that you know in some ways, you know there's there's
a bigger story behind all this because a lot of
people are falling. I want to use the word victim
because we all make decisions. And you know, if I'd
have chose to get into selling insurance, or selling coffee
(13:38):
or selling vitamins, that was my decision. It's when you
get in and how the approach of how you have
to be successful is what the decision that made you
come out of it?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Come out of it. But it took you a while.
How long were you in the in the How long
were you selling?
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Almost seven years?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Okay, so he was in there for a minute. Now,
you didn't just dive in and just come on back
out there.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Oh No, I was in deep. I was in really deep.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So for twenty fourteen, twenty twenty one, basically you was
in the world of multi level marketing. Now let's talk
about because everything's based on I don't want to use
any words that sound negative, but everything's based on a pyramid.
You know a lot of people at the bottom and
you go up to the top. How did you start
building your your Could I use the word followers or
(14:30):
your sales team?
Speaker 5 (14:31):
Yeah? Yeah, certainly followers are downline. It's usually called downline.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
How did you start building that?
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Honestly, I did the same thing that my friend who
you know had me, who enrolled me did. I just
started talking to people. I started talking to my friends.
And one thing that I had going for me is
that in the area I was living in at the time,
and I was living in Seattle at the time, there
were not a lot of people who knew about this company,
who knew about these products. So I had that on
(14:59):
my as When people heard of this, they're like, oh,
those look cool, I've never heard of this before. Sure
I'll try them, And so I didn't. I wasn't competing
with anybody, and so I had that going for me.
I also had going for me the fact that you know,
first of all, these are all buy in organizations. You
have to pay to play. So I bought the whatever
thousand dollars kits to join. Wow, right, not cheap? Right,
(15:23):
these like these things are not inexpensive to join. But
again that's all danced around because you know you're getting
all this products and you get to try everything. And
to me, I was kind of like, oh sure, I
like all this stuff. You know, why the heck not?
And I obviously you know, so I had that going
for me. I had the.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Privilege thought, I want to go to this break and
when we come back, I want to finish this conversation
because what happens if I let me let you continue,
you won't finish the thought.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
You are now tuned into the money making conversations.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Minute of Inspiration with Rashawn McDonald La.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Nay Love what You Pray of You A and M
University and You Texas for about four years and got
her engineering degree. Lonnie worked as an engineer for IBM
and other companies for more than ten years. Did she
realized that engineering was not her passion. Stand up comedy
was her gift.
Speaker 7 (16:11):
I just think everybody should tell their journey, and especially
people of color. People don't understand how hard it is
for us to make it. That's why I want everybody,
especially during the pandemic, to share their story, you know,
and so this is my story. I grew up in
Detroit and the Brewster Projects, and it just takes you
through that whole life thing, because you know, some people
(16:32):
only know me from real or from Chelsea Ladley or
you know the shows that Rashan will put me on.
So but you know, it's a whole journey.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
If you want to hear this full interview with Lonnie Love,
visit Moneymaking Conversations dot com.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Keep winning.
Speaker 6 (16:51):
Now let's return to Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rashan McDonald.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Thank you for returning. And I'm speaking of Emily Lynn
Paul's about her journey. You know, she has a background
as a chemist. She's an advocate for the truth. She
talks about in her book The Journey of this fascinating
World of Multi Level Marketing. She sees it as a
cult and the virality of misinformation. And they preyed upon
her and she felt her world of isolation because she
(17:17):
was a stay at home mom and that isolation they
use a lot on a lot of women who will
stay at home mom all feel isolated. And as you
as you were telling your story about getting involved, that
that played a major role in you you spend a
thousand dollars, so you immediately got to recoup your investment, correct.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Yeah, yeah, you got to recoup the investments. And that's
why a lot of people don't ever make money, because
you're starting out in the negative to begin with.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Right.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
So for me, it was you know, talking to friends
and family and trying to get them to try the
products I was selling and trying to get them to
join the same way I did. And what happened, well,
you know, just as luck I should have it. In
my case, I did have friends who are interested, and
like I trusted my upline who I joined, you know,
(18:07):
they trusted me. They said, well, you join this so
you know you're a smart person, right like, you wouldn't
lead us astray. And so they joined as well, and
so pretty quickly I recoup my investments and then started
you know the love bombing where I was getting you know,
mentioned in team newsletters and tagged on social media, and
(18:28):
I was getting little gifts in the mail, and I
was all of a sudden getting you know, rewarded and uh,
you know noticed for things that I hadn't been noticed
for in a really long time.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
So you're saying that. Now, let me ask you this.
Let me ask you to Emily, this book is about
this book you wrote. Okay, you just talked about your
level of isolation, your level of insecurities, and like I said,
pick attention. That's being brought to you. A stay at
home mom, a great stay at home mom. You know
you educated obviously because I mentioned you a chemist. So
(19:01):
is this something just happened to you or this can
happen to anyone.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Well, that's gonna happen to anybody. It really can. And
you know, there's a reason that a lot of the
stories in multi level marketing start just like mine, like
oh I was lonely and then I joined, or you know,
I had just lost my job and then I joined,
or just gotten divorced. It really does. There's a lot
of pain points and MLMs really do prey on that vulnerability.
(19:29):
So anyone in any kind of vulnerable position is susceptible.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Now in twenty fourteen, there's a journey in all this.
You're getting your friends, the people you know, and they
getting their friends people they know, They getting relatives and
love would underneath them.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
That's what the whole that's how multi level of marketing works.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
You get other people to be underneath you, they get
other people being underneath them.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
That's how it works.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
So now what I immediately hear is that you've invited your
friends to this world. They committed. One thousand dollars can
get you a certain kind of a way, okay, but
you get you Your success is being reaped off the
fact that you brought them on.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Bull mm hmm exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Now when did they start looking at you sideways?
Speaker 5 (20:14):
So you know, I I kind of started looking at
the sideways when I was, you know, coaching them, just
like I was being coached to, you know, reach out
to people to you know, do these cold calls to
do all this income producing activity and personal development. And
yet they weren't growing the same way I was. And
you know, mathematically they couldn't because obviously we were in
(20:36):
the same network trying to recruit the same people, and
it just doesn't work that way. So, you know, a
lot of those platitudes like you know, take it till
you make it and you know, just keep grinding, you know,
you'll right, like it's you hear a lot of those things,
and a lot of those things are repeated, so you
just think, gosh, if I just keep working harder. It's
(20:58):
this meritocracy where you know you don't want to quit
because you think, if I just did one more thing,
one more cold call, maybe that will be the thing
that you know, pushes me over the edge, it makes
me successful.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
And that's why you were saying okay, because we mentioned
in your bio it said, you know, you made up
to forty thousand dollars a month. You used to reach
on hold up, hold up, hold up. I didn't do
that every month, but once you start making money, you
kind of like hooked. So if you made up to
forty thousand dollars a money, the possibilities starts to drive you.
At what point in the in this lane of opportunities
(21:29):
from twenty fourteen to twenty to twenty one, did you
feel you peaked as a representative or as a person
in emaill.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
I would say twenty seventeen. And you know, something interesting
happened at that point is I got sober, which you
write obviously read in the book. And that was a
big part of my awakening, really was I wasn't drinking anymore.
I wasn't, you know, sending cold messages after having a
couple of glasses champagne, and I realized I started seeing
(21:59):
a lot of this stuff. I started seeing that my
team wasn't really succeeding the same way that I was.
And that's when, you know, slowly kind of the wheels
started calling off the bus a little bit.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Now it says you got cancer, correct, yep. Now I
I'm a cancer survivor twenty fifteen. Not to make you
feel guilty or anything, what type of cancer did you get?
Speaker 5 (22:26):
I had cervical cancer.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Okay, mine was thyroid cancer and I was twenty fifteen,
and I went through the surgery, and I feel, you.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Know, you know, a cancer, no one says one cure.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
As long as you live in life and taking the pills,
then you live a good life and pray that everything
continues to go your way. But cancer is powerful because
once they tell you have cancer, you can just run
you up the heels and make you wonder what's going
to happen to you next? Now you got cancer, and
use it for pity to grow your MLL business base.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
How and why?
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Yeah? So again, like I said, the really the low
point is always used, right, So you're already primed to
look for people's vulnerabilities and so when I found out
I had cancer, it's my upline, and other people in
the company suggested like, hey, how can we make something
good out of this? And of course I'm thinking like,
(23:23):
well that would be great. You know, I'd love a distraction.
What you know, what can I do? And so it
suggested like, hey, well why don't you have a little
like event and then you can give your your portions
of your profit to charity. And like, on its face,
that sounds all lovely and good, but it's requiring people
(23:43):
to buy something from a company that then benefits, you know,
all of the people in the upline.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Fundraiser basically, right, a fundraiser.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
For the product, right right, right. And you know, obviously
I donated my profit. You know, I made good on
my donation, but it still gave me a signal boosts
in the company. It still gave all of my uplines money,
and you know, obviously benefits the company the most because
it benefits the people at the top the most. And
so trying to do something that like seemed charitable. But
(24:13):
I could have just said, hey, do you want to
donate twenty dollars in this charity. I didn't have to
rope in a product purchase. So you know, look, it
made you look.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Good and you got the hype, you got the sale,
you got the you know, the moving on up the lane.
You got more people involved, and you knew the fact
that every time I told somebody I had cancer, then
people wanted to somehow rescue me. I'm just talking personally,
wanted they felt sympathy for me. They always said what
can I do for you? So when you announced that,
(24:44):
then you had the perfect lane of opportunity and you
basically took advantage of it. I'm not saying you're a
bad person, but that's what that's what can do. That's
what can happen when you tell people you have cancer.
And so at that point, why.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Did you did you? Did you?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I'm sure guilt took over right and feel and you
first started feeling bad?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Correct, Yeah, And this was again like when I when
I stopped drinking. This is when a lot of these
things kind of started to hit me. Like, you know,
that wasn't on the up and up. And you know, again,
when you're when you put your trust into these people,
you know in this I would say commercial cults. You know,
in this group that you're listening and repeating everything they're saying,
(25:30):
and you're being coachable, and you're doing what they're telling
you to do. It's really easy to just fall into
that trap of Okay, you know, you say this is
a good idea and it seems like a good idea,
and then looking back and realizing, you know what, that
wasn't such a great idea.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Now, let me ask you this, Emily, how did you
get out? Because to me, it's like seven years.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
That's a lot of people you you, and I'm sure
there's a lot of people underneath you, a lot of friends,
a lot of cousins, a lot of their friends. And
then can you just like walk away and say I'm out?
Don't they feel like angry?
Speaker 5 (26:01):
Yeah? Oh, it was a long process of you know,
waking up and realizing you know that that was part
of it, is like, wow, I've brought so many people
into this, how can I just leave? You know, I
stayed in for a long time.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Kind of well, that kind of like validated its reality
because you was in for a long time. You know,
people just don't hang around something that's not good or
just the deceptive that long and so and so you
were in there, like you said twenty fourteen or twenty
twenty one, five years, six years, seven years, I'm I'm
if you tell me this is a good thing you've
(26:35):
been at five years, I'm going to listen.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I'm going to listen.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
And so now, you know, but if you're telling me
you leaving and I'm I'm following your advice, did, I
will tell you right now I'm mad at you.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Mm hmm. Yeah. So yeah, I was, you know, just
real honest about the process. As I was kind of
realizing that I didn't like a lot of the behaviors anymore.
You know, I stopped doing the cold calling and the
reaching out, and I didn't recruit people anymore, and I
didn't sell the products anymore. I didn't terminate my account,
I didn't leave, but I, you know, talk to my customers.
(27:09):
I talk to people on my team and just say, hey,
you know, I'm I'm uncomfortable with uncomfortable with this. I'm
not going to be actively selling this anymore. I'm basically
going to go dark. And I kind of assumed, like
I'll just stay, you know, until my paycheck drives up
and then that'll be it. Right And then obviously, like
I decided to kind of go into recovery advocacy. I
(27:31):
put this on the back burner COVID happened. I mean
it was kind of like this whole series of events,
and you know, during COVID, I really realized I could
not be associated anymore because there was so much problematic
and predatory activity in MLM that that's what made me finally,
I'll sign it. Send in the termination form.
Speaker 6 (27:57):
We'll be right back with more money making Converse Stations
Masterclass with Rushawn McDonald.
Speaker 8 (28:03):
HBCUs represent Black Excellence. If you attend or are an
alumnus of an HBCU, we want to hear.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
About your story.
Speaker 8 (28:11):
The MYHBCU Story digital Library will allow current HBCU students
and alumni to share their stories. Registration is open to everyone.
More information is available at HBCU college day dot com.
Click my HBCU Story. Next, you can upload a photo.
The photo can be recent or from when you attended
your HBCU. Then share your academic or social experience at
(28:35):
your HBCU, which can be your favorite class, hangout, joint,
homecoming game, student center, honor, off campus party, Greek show,
and how attending an HBCU changed your life. We also
want to hear stories if you pleasure a fraternity or sorority.
The goal is to use your my HBCU story to
promote and uplift the HBCU brand. Your HBCU prepared you
(28:59):
for success, and now we want everyone to read about
your black excellence. More information is available at HBCU College
day dot com. You can click my HBCU story to
share your story.
Speaker 6 (29:13):
Now let's return to Money Making Conversations Masterclass with Rashaun McDonald.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Wow, you know, Abily or you know, I want to
thank you for coming on my show. And I'm just
just saying that because you know, you told me a
side of you that is uncomfortable, you know, because it
sounds kind of manipulative. It sounds kind of like, you know,
you did what you wanted to do to be successful,
(29:38):
and then a lot of it was tied to drinking
a lot of an addiction and you once you once
you cleared up that addiction, you started to see your
world a lot clearer and it took you on the
path of I want to say, redemption.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Is that the grect word?
Speaker 7 (29:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (29:53):
You know, I just try and at this point, like
do the next right thing and you know believe, I
really believe like the best apology has changed behavior, and
that was really my reasoning behind writing the book, Like
I fully throw myself under the bus, you know, just
say like, hey, I was complicit in this, I did this,
and this is why you need to hear about it,
because this is what goes on and this is what
(30:14):
to look out for.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Well, well, you know, one day for sure, as my
listeners are listening to this, what advice would you give
them them if somebody approaches them about an MLM. Let
me ask you this. First of all, what do you
need to look for to make that will let you know?
Is an email a multi level marketing platform? What should
they look at?
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Yeah, So if you have a person talking to you
wanting to join a business right you know, and asking
you for a buy in, if you have to pay
to join, I mean that's a pretty big red flag,
you know. Look, you can always just give it a
little Google like say is this blank company in MLM
and you'll find out. But generally, if you have to
(30:58):
sign the dotted line and join, you have a sponsor
or an upline that is a multi level marketing company.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
You know, my daughter I remember when she graduated from college. Recently,
she like, there are a lot of people are using
it as kind of like a form of employment opportunity,
and so she was going in they were saying her
sal it was fifty thousand dollars a year or sixty
thousand dollars a year, and she gotta make all these
cold calls.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
She had to buy this.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
So I just tell everybody is a lot of people
are using this as a form of employment. They call
it an employment, but it's not really employment. And like
you said, doe to research Google a company and it
will help you get there. But more importantly, if you
have time, and I recommend that you have time, Emily,
how can we reach out to you? And if where
can we buy this book as it don't sell right now,
(31:44):
Hey Hans.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
You know what, it comes out in one week, but
you can pre order it anywhere. You know, always support
your local bookstore if you can. And I'm on all
platforms at Emily Lynn Paulsen.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Well, Emily Lynn Paulson, thank you for coming on Money
Making Conversations her book, Hey Hans, Sisterhood, Supremacy and other
Lies behind multi level Marketing. Thank you for coming on
money making a conversation mar Basterclass, you are fantastic.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
Thanks for having me, Thank you for joining us for
this edition of Money Making Conversations Masterclass. Money Making Conversations
(32:29):
Masterclass with rough Shan McDonald is produced by thirty eight
to fifteen Media Inc. More information about thirty eight to
fifteen Media Inc. Is available at thirty eight to fifteen
media dot com. And always remember to lead with your
gifts
Host
Rushion McDonald
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