October 20, 2020 • 35 mins
My next guest Nwaka Onwusa is a Black woman working in a white male-dominated space. She is the Vice President and Chief Curator at The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Nwaka is a music lover and a contemporary bohemian with an old soul. At the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Nwaka develops informative, immersive exhibits and celebrates musical expression diversity. During this period of civil unrest, music played a role, especially from a historical perspective. Please welcome to Money Making Conversations Nwaka Onwusa.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Money Making Conversation. I am your host, Rushan McDonald.
I recognize that we all have different definitions of success.
For some, it's a sizeable paycheck. Mine is helping people
wake up and inspiring them to accomplish their goals and
live their very best life. These are my passions and
that's what I'm going to do for you. Please keep
listening to Money Making Conversations. I want you to stop
(00:21):
tripping over small challenges and prepare to rise above the
bigger obstacles that life will present to you. That's what
we do on Money Making Conversations. My next guest, and
Walker on Musa, is a black woman working in a
white man world dominated. She's a startup. I'm telling I've
done several interviews on Money Making Conversation and said you
(00:41):
gotta speak to and walcome. You got a big to him.
She's the next level, next level. So we're gonna find out.
She is the vice president and chief creator at the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Walker as a
music level, a contemporary bohemian with an old soul. I mean,
that's that's young people. You know you've ever been around
up coming room and go She teamed, but she talked
(01:02):
like she forty. That's that's you know, we'll talk to her.
We're talking like she like she Secily Tyson. That's what
we're actually gonna be interviewed Sicily Tyson on the show
to day. That's how soul. That's our spirited. She is
in the nameties at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,
and Walker develops informative immersive exhibits celebrates the diversity of
musical expression during this period of civil unrest. Music has
(01:24):
this role, especially from a historical specter. Please welcome to
money making Conversations and Walker and Woosa Is that right? Yes,
I don't know what's Once you get past the name,
we're all good and mark up, come on the way.
Oh my gosh, I'm honored to me. This is crazy.
(01:46):
Just listening to the intro, I'm like, damn going up.
But I have been, like you know, and I've interviewed.
I've been fortunate and blessed with the show because I've
been doing it and interviewed a lot of great people.
And when the name starts popping up, if you didn't
be and walkome man, she on fire, that's okay, cool, okay,
But then everybody kept you know know she you know
she got that old spirit. You know she you know
(02:08):
she she's young when she talked like you about fitting,
you know, she tells about that old who soul and
this young body and talk about that and why people
why people are so engaged with your person. Now, I
know that's that's a lot to say, because you know,
your your spirit wasn't was designed to just talk about yourself.
(02:30):
But when people talk about you, you have to be
delivering something to them that made them excited and made
them respectful to make you a recommendation. That's all you
wanted life. You want people to recommend you to. That's
like a good that's like a credit reference, right, sore reference. Right.
So talk about it being the vice president chief curator,
(02:50):
because I'm that's a big word, curator. We're gonna get
to that word in a minute. But just tell me
what people think so much of it? Waka, oh my god.
Well I again honored um to be on this call
and to be speaking with you. Um, I you know what,
I'm just gonna leave it as um. It's a guide
in me. I'm just gonna leave it as that because
(03:11):
I don't have the full answer for that. But UM,
I know I'm passionate about my work and I can
definitely blame that on my parents. UM, both my mom
and dad. UM hard workers, entrepreneurs, UM, very strong work ethic,
and that is what powers me. That's what feels me.
So you know, I'm all about the work and let's
(03:33):
just get it done. And UM having an opportunity to
curate and put out different, um, a number of different
exhibits with different varying topics. UM, you know, probably that's
what people are feeling. But definitely the passion. So I'm
sure that that's what folks are feeling. And music really
is about passion. I know that I didn't. I didn't
(03:56):
I couldn't read, but I knew that I knew my
mom's favorite music. That's born. You can't read, But you
know about Johnny Taylor because I knew that. I could
just see the words that they put on that. So
I didn't know that's sad, Johnny Taylor, but I knew
those are the words you put together. That was my
mom and dad's favorite music. And so because music plays
that role and it means so much to us, what
does it mean to you? Gosh, music is definitely a lifeline.
(04:21):
Like what you said, you don't have to speak the
same language, you don't need to read. Um. Music is
just one of those things where you know you are
you are moved the power of music. We hear these slogans, um,
and it can found cheesy at times, but to truly
feel the power of music, I'm gonna makes you cry, dance, laugh,
(04:41):
I want to hit somebody. I mean, you got you
got all kinds of range of emotions. But music is
just so powerful and I love that that is truly
the universal language. It really is what connects us. It
doesn't matter where you from, what walk you're walking. Um,
that's what I love about music. I mean the messages
that are in the in the music, that's what it
(05:02):
is inspiring to me. You know. It was really interesting that,
you know, because I look at my life, you know,
and uh uh you know, I look at how music
has played a role, and I degrees in mathematics and
I can always remember a radio's important to me. And
and then as I was touring on the road and
stand up comic are certain song who just keep me awake,
(05:25):
you know, uh, keep me Bruce Hornsby's at that first
album put out, Graceland by Paul Side. You know those
those songs, uh, you know, And and now I got
my Pandora and I've just got if you listen to
my Pandora, I got from Kim to Kirk Franklin to
uh to uh to uh Bruce Springsteen, you know to
(05:51):
you know that that to me. And then I got
you know, flow Ride of My House. You know what
I'm saying. I got, you know, I Rise, you know
a d you know what I'm saying. So and so
that's to me. When I listened to my when I
when I go through that whole realm, I got Patty
on there and and I just go and I got
(06:11):
I got Willie Hut Show there. You know, it's just
it's just it's just it's just it's so important. And
then when you create a curator at the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame, that's like the mecca where every everybody,
every artist who's done music wants to get there, like
the Basketball Hall of Fame, like the Hall of They
want to get there, right and you want to get
(06:33):
MP and the creator explain that, explain that role, and
then explain if there are pressure, what is the pressure
being that person. You know, I'm still pinching myself. So
this is a recent promotion that happens for me as
a rock hall. And again, just to be a curator
to your point where Sean as you were saying, just
(06:54):
to even work at the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame and um be a curator there. Really, i'man was
a dream. I didn't even know I had UM to
be quite honest, you know, So to be there, I mean,
we are running the narratives. Were as curators what curators do,
We're writing the stories. We are the storytellers. You know,
you have filmmakers who are sharing stories, you have novelists
(07:15):
who are sharing stories. Will curators tell that story in
the physical space, regardless of it's an art museum to
a music museum. And so I'm happy to be there
to shift um the narratives to um provide even more
inclusion about amazing UM musicians and you know, and just
to do that work. So it really is my citadel.
(07:37):
I watched the Game of Thrones and I just really
I'm honored, like it's my I feel like I'm a
mister in the citadel. Like it's just such an honor.
The collection UM is just beyond dope. I mean going
over jeez, over thirty thou forty thousand different artifacts collected. UM.
They're so impactful of musical history, UM, to the fabrics
(07:59):
of who we are. I mean there's you know, I'm
kind of going all over the place. I'm just excited
about it. But the thing about it is that no,
you're not. Because when you when you walk in and
you and Heaven, you know, it's like it's like a
no different than I'm sure when they put the African
American Museum together. There's so many likes and it's something
(08:19):
made you cry, some made you emotional, some made you
I can't believe this. I didn't know. And that's why
I started our conversation just talking about music in general,
because you can't have this job being a singular thought person.
You know, I just like country, I just like a rock,
I just like rap. You have to have a palette
(08:42):
of music. That's like I was talking about, you know,
like I said, I'm a toopod guy. You know what
I'm saying. You know, but I listened to Snoop too,
you know, I know, like I said, a great Sleight album.
You know, you can call me al. I can just
remember that video with Chevy Chase and Paul Simon like
it's playing on TV right now today. You know, you've
(09:02):
got to be born in the USA, you know, you know,
you got to be able to understand that's just some
of the songs, but it's even deeper than that, and
so that's what you've been. You know, a person of color.
People can question whether you should be in that position. Absolutely,
you know, I will I mean a number of experiences, um,
(09:24):
but one of them rings out so plainly for me.
I've started my career, my curating career, UM, a museum
career for that fact, at the Grammy Museum in Los Angeles,
and UM, you know there was an exhibit specifically, I
remember it right now, what's called the Sounds of Laurel Canyon,
California Dreaming and that's you know, you're talking about Buffalo,
(09:46):
Springfield and Johnny Mitchell, and I mean you're hitting on
all of these really phenomenal bands, UM, predominantly white bands, UM.
And you know, doing my research knowing the photographers no
were the key players with this movement. But I remember,
I will not forget there was a writer who came
in and like, you know, number one, they were looking
(10:08):
for Waker. My name is kind of ambiguous, so like
who is Waka? Where is she? I remember looking for
a Japanese woman one, So that was already that was like, okay,
now I be black, um, and why not know him
as Japanese. Gotta be Japanese. That's close. So hey, we
(10:34):
all connected from the continent. So we're looking for a
Japanese woman, um, and they find out that I'm black,
and so the feedback was just like damn um whole
And so even to your intro, like, Waka, you've curated
this Laurel cay and exhibit and you're black. And I
was about thirty or twenty nine or something at that point. Okay,
(11:01):
there we go fifty and spirit and that's when that
came out, and that's how that was manifested. But yeah,
I mean it's just you know, I like, I like
I like having an ambiguous name. I like if people
can't tell if I'm a male or female or you know,
like I love that. Um. Just let's the work speak
for it. Though. So they came not knowing, oh I
(11:22):
was a black woman. Um. They came because hey, this
is a dope topic and it's timely for that time,
you know, for that period. Um, but let's just check
it out. But yeah, yeah, let's just check it out
because this is interesting. It's really amazing when I you know,
when I say that, I find so much fun. You know,
first of all your energy and you came so you know,
(11:43):
so I know the people I talked to that they
have personalities and they're very opinionated people. When they say, man,
you need talk to you. She's your son. We just
we just stocked. Can we take interviewing you? I gotta
hit it all that out, okay. And so yeah, so
when when I look at when I look at her,
you said, you started the Grammy Museum. Okay, tell us
(12:05):
about your you know, because people want to know how
you get these gigs. You know, what did you? Can
you sing? Your your spoken word? Artist? Can you play
an instrument? You degree? When did you go to college?
Major in music or art? One of those key things
that got you in this position at the Grammy Museum
(12:26):
and now at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
as the vice president and curate chief. Give me chief.
She's a c c at the Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame. Just keep people just see see her. Who's that? No?
The chief creator? Okay, oh my god. Well the longest
short um is essentially I just will say it is
(12:49):
my title. Thing is just definitely out of your comfort zone. Um.
I had no idea. Again, I'm a daughter of an
immigrant mother from the South, like I had no idea
of what a curator was. So that was not my
initial aspiration. Nor did I truly understand the the impact
of museum. Um. You know, at a younger age for
(13:11):
someone to say, hey, you know, I'm going in as
a back you know, as an undergrad with museum studies,
it was not. That was not me um. So again
my passion just for music in general, not having access
to it because I grew up in a very Pentecostal
home where we were only listening to gospel music. I
mean maybe some maybe some James Brown, you know, some obviously,
(13:35):
some Supremes, a lot of motown um in general. So
I was able to at least be introduced to these
foundational musicians in our music. Come on, you know my dad,
look cut my dad. Being Nigerian, we got to Bob
Marley of course and say line all of these you know, yeah,
(14:00):
because we're gonna do it like a name that tune
in a minute. You know what I'm saying, I might hurt,
You might get yourself hurt. Don't don't hurt read um.
But you know, I'm just truly stepping out of my
comfort zone. Is how I got started at the Grammy Museum,
from you know, stepping up to volunteering myself to curate
(14:24):
my first exhibit, which is called hip Hop a Cultural Odyssey,
and just to really launch out and reach and connect
different artists and uh managers and public that this is
a whole business. When you're working in a music museum,
it's interesting because you know, your foot is in the
music industry to an extent, in your foot is in
the museum world. Um so. So I love that that
(14:47):
makes things so interesting. Um So to grow in that
and just learn and working with such a prominent organization
like they're Recording Academy. Um definitely. You know now looking
at it, I mean because I did write this script, um,
but looking at it now, to be at the Rocket
Roll Hall of Fame is such an honorable um progression
(15:08):
in my career and I'm just look, I started out
in the box topice, working part time okay, um, I okay,
so that's the real you know, the real deal. And
I was like, damn, okay, so I can. I can
do this and love music as much as I do.
Like so yes, I do think play a mean old tambourine.
Don't have any come on you on your show and
(15:30):
do that. You have to ruing me onside that ass, right,
But you know, starting out just taking chances. I I
had no idea what the Grammy Museum had to offer,
but again put it in the work, starting from the bottom,
hustling and growing and seeing how how the institution works,
(15:51):
how it's built, UM, and seeing that from the doors. UM,
I think I had the best of you in that
institution from um from being a ticket takers so that
was really interesting. Like I had the ticketmaster background and
knew how to build shows and all of that. So
again just utilizing all of my talents, then my passion
for the music, passion for education, UM, all of those
(16:14):
things were able to be UM used in one place.
And that's why I was like, Wow, this is this
is the thing, this is it for me. All of
the other ideas that I thought I had for myself,
UM kind of went up the window. You know, I
wanted to be an attorney. I wanted to be an
entertainment lawyer. And I'm like, I still get to deal
with um lawyers and attorneys all the time, with the
(16:35):
states and dealing with contracts. So I get to you know,
scratch that itch, you know. UM. The music part again,
that's daily. UM. But there's just so much that I
get to do in this role, and I'm honored and
really in the education component of it, was excited to
share my path and my journey with youth to know that,
(16:55):
you know, you don't have to know everything, you don't
know need to know what you want to be leaving college,
leaving right out of high school or whatever it is,
and especially in today's climate, but to know that you
can find a career in a museum or um. You know,
in these odd odd places, in these unique jobs. There's
there's work to be done. And now with COVID, we're
(17:18):
learning that there's so much to be done. UM, we're
just evolving the way we create at this point. So UM,
you know, it's really amazing. UM when our when our
interview people are I look at my life, you know,
because it starts someplace why these people forces need to
be heard. And my minor in college, my degree is
in mathematics. My mind was in sociology, sociology, and I
(17:46):
always tell people that sociology changed my life, you know,
because of the fact that it made me realize what
why we're all fighting right now, that so much was
denied educationally in my high school, real my middle school
with they just stopped, you know, they know when they
brought us over his slave, they freed us and then
he swung forward to Brown versus a board of education.
(18:09):
Then they went to mar Luther King. He got assassinated.
That was it. That was our black history. And that's
how that was our black participation in this country according
to the people who allowed that information to y'all because
they didn't want to let anybody know how we were mistreated.
Like and that's what the that's why I respect about
the Jewish community. They got their story, told the Jewish people,
(18:30):
they're telling their story that they letting everybody know what
the Germans did. And with the Holocaust world, don't you
don't you try to bask this. Y'all did this to us.
And so when it's happening with the blacks in America.
And when you when I took this tote, it brought
me the tears. I realized I didn't know. I didn't
know because nobody allowed that information to be shared with me.
(18:53):
So whenever I meet a fellow sociology major minor person,
it's a certain because guess what, you know what I know.
You know the pain that I'm talking about, you know
the anger. Then I'm talking about the disappointment I have
to say in the American educational system denying information. Come
on now, and that's true. And then and then when
(19:15):
you look at it too, I'm like, the role that
we play and what we do in society is really
to just be truth tellers, to really break the truth
and whatever it is I mean, I mean, it's the
most quote to be, to be a reflection of the times.
And that's why I love you. And we can break it.
(19:36):
Let's do it. You can't have the wine with it,
but you know, and and it's and it's so true.
I mean, whatever your career path is, be be an
activist in that. And that's where I's like, hey, we
can change the narrator. We can share stories that have
never been told, or highlight musicians whose stories aren't out there,
the Laverne Bakers of the world. I mean, let's share
(19:58):
those stories, let's talk about those stories. And to be
able to do that, like you're doing through your show,
to do that in a museum like the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame or the Grammy Museum or whoever,
the Smithsonian, it's an honor to write that history that
people can then go back and have another and a
fresh perspective based on something that you were able to
(20:20):
to introduce. I think that's powerful. Well, talking to you
is powerful. We're talking to you. Know why why I
started this show. Every interview I go, I get more relaxed,
I get more honest about because you know, started an idea.
Everything starts with that idea. You don't know if people
are buying too and people and you know, I remember
I first started the show. You know, I didn't know
if they was calling me because they know I knew
(20:41):
famous people like Steve Harvey. I was managing them, or
the calling because Rushan McDonald. They wanted to hear if
they want to buy into what I was trying to say.
And so now there's changed that people are understanding my
message is about them. You know, you're the star, you know,
but you know, but it's a start in different lane
because everybody used to stars and on television and the
(21:01):
favor But the stars of the entrepreneurs stars are the
people of the machines, the people who we call the movies,
and the shakers of this business who sometimes imply private planes,
and the people who you consider the star still on
first class, you know. And that's how businesses. And I'm
talking to Reset to Stay, I'm talking to the vice
president and chief Career Curator I call u c C
(21:25):
at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Cleveland.
You know, see, I will just tell you all this.
I'm just catching that on the on the on the
on the ride, on the ride, because you know, she
was just she was. Cleveland just did a big spread
on her a few days ago. She said, yes, you're right.
(21:46):
How you know all that stuff? How you know that?
Because Sai, I know we can see you all. I'm
not the pertinent proclaiming you as the next big star
in this, in this, in this what when I say
a perfect time. She's black, she's beautiful, she's informative, she
has a resume. You know, I always hear people you
(22:07):
know the next step is president, face President. You're not
down there, you know, You're not down there selling tickets
no more, you know what I'm saying. And I like
her because she got two titles. You know what I'm saying.
She walked around just cause she get bored of being
the VP. Can just be a chief creator? Right? Que
(22:28):
what you doing over here? Chief creators in the room.
So so let's let's tell everybody what her chief creator.
It's not something some some contraption in your kitchen to
make break. Okay, it's not a blender if you get
buy on late night TV. Okay, what is a It's
(22:51):
not a vita mix? Uh juicer? What is the chief creator?
Oh my god? Yes? But essentially, the website dictionary term
for curator is truly just the keeper of the collection
(23:14):
or the custodian of the museum. So I'm overseeing the
entire territorial Affairs division. And so that's from our library
and archives UM into our collections, into our curators and preparators,
and I mean it's a it's a team that makes
all of this move and work. So UM I advantaging
(23:36):
that team, overseer of that UM and making sure that
you know the narratives and the stories the artifacts that
we collect UM are relevant, are powerful UM and are
making sure that we're keeping the museum UM moving forward,
keeping the community moving forward, keeping our perspectives moving forward.
(23:57):
So I'm again honored to be in the role, like
to be a gatekeeper, even it's just an honor. So
so yeah, that's that's my job as chief curators. How
I would would it now that even came down You
got me cackling over here. I need for water like water. Okay, Uh,
(24:24):
your latest exhibit has been said all alone has been
said along with voices of rage, hope, and empowerment. Share
with us you know what that is about and what
it's important because when when we we we started out
talking about the importance of music, and and you was
like you said, walking in, how do you get the information?
How do you how does information come to you? Our
(24:44):
records come to you, or guitars coming to you or
jackets coming to you. Because all this is a part
of the process of what should be in the in
the museum and why it's important to put in the
museum because aren't you kind of like limited on your
space because the building is a in size and then
what do I what I put it? I just put
(25:05):
it on video. Now how do you continue to grow
your brand? Right? UM, you're completely like thousand percent correct
that we have a finite space of what we can
you know, exhibit in the museum, UM, a finite number
of galleries in the museum and a growing collection, which
(25:26):
is absolutely beautiful to have a you know, a solid
permanent collection that can help to tell tell a story
like it's been set all along. UM. I was really
grateful to be able to just pull artifacts from our
collection that have either never been on display before UM
or to you know, go out and look for a
(25:48):
new artifacts to help UM further the conversation with newer
artists who are making music now and who are are
new UM cooners and culture shifters of today, UM, and
to continue to tell that story. So, you know, in
this world, in this pope, curating through COVID, as I
call it UM, which is something that we're all doing.
(26:10):
UM is recurating how we reach people. So to do
things virtually now virtual exhibits, you know, was something that
museums played with, but it's now something that we're having
to rely more heavily on just because you know, tourism
is down. Museums are closed UM permanently or you know, temporarily.
(26:32):
So we have to find new ways of reaching our audience.
So to go beyond the gallery space, to go beyond
ten thousand square feet or seven thousand square feet UM
and make it virtual where the globe can see the
work and and learn from it and be inspired and
moved by it. That's really powerful. So we are shipped
(26:53):
into a more digital UM experience that we create for
our visitors. UM. But you did ask me about It's
been said all along voices of rage, hope and empowerment,
and that really was birth out of I'm calling it
is our civil rights of this new millennium, you know,
with the civil rights movement of UM, where you know,
the killing the murders of of you know, black bodies.
(27:17):
Let's just call it what is UM, you know, the
murders of black bodies. The musicians who have risen to
the occasion to lend their voice and put their bodies
on the line UM musically, UM, putting their careers on
the line by speaking up and speaking out during such
a critical time UM, and to continue to pass on
(27:37):
those messages and narratives that inspired this new generation because
when you look at it historically, in every war, going
back to the Civil Wars, revolutionary, the musicians, the bands
always went out first. Those trumpets and those horns were
facing the soldiers, those people who are on the front line.
The music was always a part of the narrative. It
(27:58):
is a part of our cultural shifts, like every revolution
has a soundtrack. So from Martin Luther King having marching
arm and are with Navid Staples or the Staples singers
or you know, either Caves being in the mix or
whoever I mean from the music is gag wonder come on,
(28:21):
I mean, the whole thing. Um music has always played
a curst So to anyone who I say, who wants
to diminish that, um, you gotta be blind and disillusions.
I mean. So that's why this exhibit is called It's
been Dead all along, highlighting black voices who have been
speaking out about injustice and inequality and for equal rights.
(28:44):
One of the things that I love about managing our
collection and being so new to Cleveland into the Rock Hall,
is that I'm discovering things maybe that um the staff
may have forgotten about, or you know, they may have
seen it, so it's fresh to me. UM. So that's
really nice to pull out these things that are in
our vault. UM. We have these beautiful lyrics written by
(29:07):
James Brown. We always typically hear you know, say it
lot on black and I'm proud. We don't hear the
other anthem, don't open up the door for me, or
you know, I don't need nobody to open up the door.
I don't get it myself. You know, we have the lyrics,
we have the I don't mean nobody, I don't need
(29:30):
you to do this for me. So, I mean we
have those lyrics that those are affirmations. Those are messages
of of um, strength, of rage, of hope, empowerment, and
so that's where I wanted us to. You know, we
go through these transitions of rage, hope, and empowerment and
still come out resilient. UM. The photos that are even
on display in this exhibit are primarily from black photographers, UM,
(29:53):
some who people may know, some who they may not,
including Chuck Stewart UM, who is phenomenal, who shot the
album cover for Gil Scott Hearing and for that single
the Revolution will not be televised. I mean the girl
come on now. Just you make me mad, girl, I
(30:16):
wanted just follow your roses. Won't be like, oh, you're
a little bit black man on your show. You're just
walking about HRC. Turn right, turn right, girl, girl, who
are you talking? Nobody's nobody don't. I can't let you
in here. They find out you on my shoulder, They're
gonna knock you off because every time you talk, I'm
(30:39):
just oh that song, I'm just dropping the word a lyric.
Oh year, because girl, that that's that is a beautiful
thing to be part of history, living history and being
able to history. Right, No, it's it's absolutely beautiful. So
it is. It is, you know, a celebration of the past.
But while we are off so looking at the musicians,
(31:02):
the songwriters, the creators of the future UM to you know,
be inspired by their work as well. So that's you know,
essentially what that exhibit is. But it was it was
such a powerful thing to do UM you know, during
that time, and it's a great way again to to
make sure that these artists are continued to be talked
(31:24):
about in these institutions, in in the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame UM again, holding holding voices and holding
leaders accountable. I mean, these stories and narratives should always exist,
um within our institutions. So UM, I'm doing my due
diligence as as CC people who don't know, the people
(31:48):
who don't know, but to make sure that these stories
are are always in the narrative. Because the important thing
that you said, like as you said, not knowing about
um these important moments in our history and learning about
them at school and your undergrading your sociology and your
acro studies and Marco, you know what we're talking about.
(32:10):
When you started, you going for real for it was
like it was like it was it was, it was.
It was tragic information for me because I was one
of these guys who were read smart, one of know
at all guys. And I'm like, you kidding me. You
got to be kidding. You just gotta be a lot
just can't be. So it is so much information that
(32:31):
is denied of everybody, White people, Hispanics, blacks especially that
when you here being told to you go or this
some black stuff, listen, some made up some faith news.
Ain't know way black people did all this and you
we did, we did, we did. And to see that
I have a beautiful as they said Black Queen up there,
(32:54):
the vice president a k a c. C. Creator at
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. If Cleveland, I
know you've been to Slimmers. I gotta go to Slimmers
and get you some sandwiches up there clean. That's what
I mean. You gonna get low. See what I'm saying.
That's what i mean. But as soon as this pandemic,
I'm gonna get on. I'm apply Cleveland too much together
(33:18):
to do with that, but I'm gonna get up there
in the Cleveland. But now now the weather, now the
weather is taking a turn. Follows up. But no, no, no, no,
I love cold weather. I lived in Chicago five years.
I got closed that I can't. I'm in Atlanta now
I got closed. They just sit They're just sitting like
they just sitting in my closet because I have no
(33:40):
reason to put them on right now because the weather.
Oh yeah, but to Cleveland. I stepped on the plane.
People look at me like, I'm oh, he's just he's ready,
he ready, he ready for everything, He ready for everything.
But you know, the beauty of why I brought you
on the show is to let the world know about
you because you are a riding and star. You are
a representative of what we need, people who are willing
(34:02):
to share the information, but more importantly respected not because
of the color your skin, but who you are. Because
the color your stink would have stopped you. Who you
are got you your job. And that's what that we
need to understand. That's the narrative that's being discussed on
money making conversation today. I want to thank you. You know,
it's thirty more minutes. We got to stop talking. So
I don't know why people come in to the show.
(34:22):
I'll tell him. I'll tell him twenty man, they be
said talking to your talking, just talking, and we can
talking this thirty too. I ain't taking no blame for this, y'all.
And can talk. That's when she got the job. But
guy don't know how to stop talking. She'll not talk
talking people. They're probably walking around with ear plugs on
the pably probably probably you. Thank you so much for
(34:45):
having me though, truly honored for you recognizing me and
um and just for all those voices who are who
are rooting for me as well. Thank you. I'm rooting
and you stay safe. We talked soon. Bye bye. If
you want to hear more money Man cover say interviews
please go to Moneymaking Conversation dot com. I'm Rashan McDonald.
I'm your host, H
Welcome to Money Making Conversation. I am your host, Rushan McDonald.
I recognize that we all have different definitions of success.
For some, it's a sizeable paycheck. Mine is helping people
wake up and inspiring them to accomplish their goals and
live their very best life. These are my passions and
that's what I'm going to do for you. Please keep
listening to Money Making Conversations. I want you to stop
(00:21):
tripping over small challenges and prepare to rise above the
bigger obstacles that life will present to you. That's what
we do on Money Making Conversations. My next guest, and
Walker on Musa, is a black woman working in a
white man world dominated. She's a startup. I'm telling I've
done several interviews on Money Making Conversation and said you
(00:41):
gotta speak to and walcome. You got a big to him.
She's the next level, next level. So we're gonna find out.
She is the vice president and chief creator at the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Walker as a
music level, a contemporary bohemian with an old soul. I mean,
that's that's young people. You know you've ever been around
up coming room and go She teamed, but she talked
(01:02):
like she forty. That's that's you know, we'll talk to her.
We're talking like she like she Secily Tyson. That's what
we're actually gonna be interviewed Sicily Tyson on the show
to day. That's how soul. That's our spirited. She is
in the nameties at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,
and Walker develops informative immersive exhibits celebrates the diversity of
musical expression during this period of civil unrest. Music has
(01:24):
this role, especially from a historical specter. Please welcome to
money making Conversations and Walker and Woosa Is that right? Yes,
I don't know what's Once you get past the name,
we're all good and mark up, come on the way.
Oh my gosh, I'm honored to me. This is crazy.
(01:46):
Just listening to the intro, I'm like, damn going up.
But I have been, like you know, and I've interviewed.
I've been fortunate and blessed with the show because I've
been doing it and interviewed a lot of great people.
And when the name starts popping up, if you didn't
be and walkome man, she on fire, that's okay, cool, okay,
But then everybody kept you know know she you know
she got that old spirit. You know she you know
(02:08):
she she's young when she talked like you about fitting,
you know, she tells about that old who soul and
this young body and talk about that and why people
why people are so engaged with your person. Now, I
know that's that's a lot to say, because you know,
your your spirit wasn't was designed to just talk about yourself.
(02:30):
But when people talk about you, you have to be
delivering something to them that made them excited and made
them respectful to make you a recommendation. That's all you
wanted life. You want people to recommend you to. That's
like a good that's like a credit reference, right, sore reference. Right.
So talk about it being the vice president chief curator,
(02:50):
because I'm that's a big word, curator. We're gonna get
to that word in a minute. But just tell me
what people think so much of it? Waka, oh my god.
Well I again honored um to be on this call
and to be speaking with you. Um, I you know what,
I'm just gonna leave it as um. It's a guide
in me. I'm just gonna leave it as that because
(03:11):
I don't have the full answer for that. But UM,
I know I'm passionate about my work and I can
definitely blame that on my parents. UM, both my mom
and dad. UM hard workers, entrepreneurs, UM, very strong work ethic,
and that is what powers me. That's what feels me.
So you know, I'm all about the work and let's
(03:33):
just get it done. And UM having an opportunity to
curate and put out different, um, a number of different
exhibits with different varying topics. UM, you know, probably that's
what people are feeling. But definitely the passion. So I'm
sure that that's what folks are feeling. And music really
is about passion. I know that I didn't. I didn't
(03:56):
I couldn't read, but I knew that I knew my
mom's favorite music. That's born. You can't read, But you
know about Johnny Taylor because I knew that. I could
just see the words that they put on that. So
I didn't know that's sad, Johnny Taylor, but I knew
those are the words you put together. That was my
mom and dad's favorite music. And so because music plays
that role and it means so much to us, what
does it mean to you? Gosh, music is definitely a lifeline.
(04:21):
Like what you said, you don't have to speak the
same language, you don't need to read. Um. Music is
just one of those things where you know you are
you are moved the power of music. We hear these slogans, um,
and it can found cheesy at times, but to truly
feel the power of music, I'm gonna makes you cry, dance, laugh,
(04:41):
I want to hit somebody. I mean, you got you
got all kinds of range of emotions. But music is
just so powerful and I love that that is truly
the universal language. It really is what connects us. It
doesn't matter where you from, what walk you're walking. Um,
that's what I love about music. I mean the messages
that are in the in the music, that's what it
(05:02):
is inspiring to me. You know. It was really interesting that,
you know, because I look at my life, you know,
and uh uh you know, I look at how music
has played a role, and I degrees in mathematics and
I can always remember a radio's important to me. And
and then as I was touring on the road and
stand up comic are certain song who just keep me awake,
(05:25):
you know, uh, keep me Bruce Hornsby's at that first
album put out, Graceland by Paul Side. You know those
those songs, uh, you know, And and now I got
my Pandora and I've just got if you listen to
my Pandora, I got from Kim to Kirk Franklin to
uh to uh to uh Bruce Springsteen, you know to
(05:51):
you know that that to me. And then I got
you know, flow Ride of My House. You know what
I'm saying. I got, you know, I Rise, you know
a d you know what I'm saying. So and so
that's to me. When I listened to my when I
when I go through that whole realm, I got Patty
on there and and I just go and I got
(06:11):
I got Willie Hut Show there. You know, it's just
it's just it's just it's just it's so important. And
then when you create a curator at the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame, that's like the mecca where every everybody,
every artist who's done music wants to get there, like
the Basketball Hall of Fame, like the Hall of They
want to get there, right and you want to get
(06:33):
MP and the creator explain that, explain that role, and
then explain if there are pressure, what is the pressure
being that person. You know, I'm still pinching myself. So
this is a recent promotion that happens for me as
a rock hall. And again, just to be a curator
to your point where Sean as you were saying, just
(06:54):
to even work at the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame and um be a curator there. Really, i'man was
a dream. I didn't even know I had UM to
be quite honest, you know, So to be there, I mean,
we are running the narratives. Were as curators what curators do,
We're writing the stories. We are the storytellers. You know,
you have filmmakers who are sharing stories, you have novelists
(07:15):
who are sharing stories. Will curators tell that story in
the physical space, regardless of it's an art museum to
a music museum. And so I'm happy to be there
to shift um the narratives to um provide even more
inclusion about amazing UM musicians and you know, and just
to do that work. So it really is my citadel.
(07:37):
I watched the Game of Thrones and I just really
I'm honored, like it's my I feel like I'm a
mister in the citadel. Like it's just such an honor.
The collection UM is just beyond dope. I mean going
over jeez, over thirty thou forty thousand different artifacts collected. UM.
They're so impactful of musical history, UM, to the fabrics
(07:59):
of who we are. I mean there's you know, I'm
kind of going all over the place. I'm just excited
about it. But the thing about it is that no,
you're not. Because when you when you walk in and
you and Heaven, you know, it's like it's like a
no different than I'm sure when they put the African
American Museum together. There's so many likes and it's something
(08:19):
made you cry, some made you emotional, some made you
I can't believe this. I didn't know. And that's why
I started our conversation just talking about music in general,
because you can't have this job being a singular thought person.
You know, I just like country, I just like a rock,
I just like rap. You have to have a palette
(08:42):
of music. That's like I was talking about, you know,
like I said, I'm a toopod guy. You know what
I'm saying. You know, but I listened to Snoop too,
you know, I know, like I said, a great Sleight album.
You know, you can call me al. I can just
remember that video with Chevy Chase and Paul Simon like
it's playing on TV right now today. You know, you've
(09:02):
got to be born in the USA, you know, you know,
you got to be able to understand that's just some
of the songs, but it's even deeper than that, and
so that's what you've been. You know, a person of color.
People can question whether you should be in that position. Absolutely,
you know, I will I mean a number of experiences, um,
(09:24):
but one of them rings out so plainly for me.
I've started my career, my curating career, UM, a museum
career for that fact, at the Grammy Museum in Los Angeles,
and UM, you know there was an exhibit specifically, I
remember it right now, what's called the Sounds of Laurel Canyon,
California Dreaming and that's you know, you're talking about Buffalo,
(09:46):
Springfield and Johnny Mitchell, and I mean you're hitting on
all of these really phenomenal bands, UM, predominantly white bands, UM.
And you know, doing my research knowing the photographers no
were the key players with this movement. But I remember,
I will not forget there was a writer who came
in and like, you know, number one, they were looking
(10:08):
for Waker. My name is kind of ambiguous, so like
who is Waka? Where is she? I remember looking for
a Japanese woman one, So that was already that was like, okay,
now I be black, um, and why not know him
as Japanese. Gotta be Japanese. That's close. So hey, we
(10:34):
all connected from the continent. So we're looking for a
Japanese woman, um, and they find out that I'm black,
and so the feedback was just like damn um whole
And so even to your intro, like, Waka, you've curated
this Laurel cay and exhibit and you're black. And I
was about thirty or twenty nine or something at that point. Okay,
(11:01):
there we go fifty and spirit and that's when that
came out, and that's how that was manifested. But yeah,
I mean it's just you know, I like, I like
I like having an ambiguous name. I like if people
can't tell if I'm a male or female or you know,
like I love that. Um. Just let's the work speak
for it. Though. So they came not knowing, oh I
(11:22):
was a black woman. Um. They came because hey, this
is a dope topic and it's timely for that time,
you know, for that period. Um, but let's just check
it out. But yeah, yeah, let's just check it out
because this is interesting. It's really amazing when I you know,
when I say that, I find so much fun. You know,
first of all your energy and you came so you know,
(11:43):
so I know the people I talked to that they
have personalities and they're very opinionated people. When they say, man,
you need talk to you. She's your son. We just
we just stocked. Can we take interviewing you? I gotta
hit it all that out, okay. And so yeah, so
when when I look at when I look at her,
you said, you started the Grammy Museum. Okay, tell us
(12:05):
about your you know, because people want to know how
you get these gigs. You know, what did you? Can
you sing? Your your spoken word? Artist? Can you play
an instrument? You degree? When did you go to college?
Major in music or art? One of those key things
that got you in this position at the Grammy Museum
(12:26):
and now at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
as the vice president and curate chief. Give me chief.
She's a c c at the Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame. Just keep people just see see her. Who's that? No?
The chief creator? Okay, oh my god. Well the longest
short um is essentially I just will say it is
(12:49):
my title. Thing is just definitely out of your comfort zone. Um.
I had no idea. Again, I'm a daughter of an
immigrant mother from the South, like I had no idea
of what a curator was. So that was not my
initial aspiration. Nor did I truly understand the the impact
of museum. Um. You know, at a younger age for
(13:11):
someone to say, hey, you know, I'm going in as
a back you know, as an undergrad with museum studies,
it was not. That was not me um. So again
my passion just for music in general, not having access
to it because I grew up in a very Pentecostal
home where we were only listening to gospel music. I
mean maybe some maybe some James Brown, you know, some obviously,
(13:35):
some Supremes, a lot of motown um in general. So
I was able to at least be introduced to these
foundational musicians in our music. Come on, you know my dad,
look cut my dad. Being Nigerian, we got to Bob
Marley of course and say line all of these you know, yeah,
(14:00):
because we're gonna do it like a name that tune
in a minute. You know what I'm saying, I might hurt,
You might get yourself hurt. Don't don't hurt read um.
But you know, I'm just truly stepping out of my
comfort zone. Is how I got started at the Grammy Museum,
from you know, stepping up to volunteering myself to curate
(14:24):
my first exhibit, which is called hip Hop a Cultural Odyssey,
and just to really launch out and reach and connect
different artists and uh managers and public that this is
a whole business. When you're working in a music museum,
it's interesting because you know, your foot is in the
music industry to an extent, in your foot is in
the museum world. Um so. So I love that that
(14:47):
makes things so interesting. Um So to grow in that
and just learn and working with such a prominent organization
like they're Recording Academy. Um definitely. You know now looking
at it, I mean because I did write this script, um,
but looking at it now, to be at the Rocket
Roll Hall of Fame is such an honorable um progression
(15:08):
in my career and I'm just look, I started out
in the box topice, working part time okay, um, I okay,
so that's the real you know, the real deal. And
I was like, damn, okay, so I can. I can
do this and love music as much as I do.
Like so yes, I do think play a mean old tambourine.
Don't have any come on you on your show and
(15:30):
do that. You have to ruing me onside that ass, right,
But you know, starting out just taking chances. I I
had no idea what the Grammy Museum had to offer,
but again put it in the work, starting from the bottom,
hustling and growing and seeing how how the institution works,
(15:51):
how it's built, UM, and seeing that from the doors. UM,
I think I had the best of you in that
institution from um from being a ticket takers so that
was really interesting. Like I had the ticketmaster background and
knew how to build shows and all of that. So
again just utilizing all of my talents, then my passion
for the music, passion for education, UM, all of those
(16:14):
things were able to be UM used in one place.
And that's why I was like, Wow, this is this
is the thing, this is it for me. All of
the other ideas that I thought I had for myself,
UM kind of went up the window. You know, I
wanted to be an attorney. I wanted to be an
entertainment lawyer. And I'm like, I still get to deal
with um lawyers and attorneys all the time, with the
(16:35):
states and dealing with contracts. So I get to you know,
scratch that itch, you know. UM. The music part again,
that's daily. UM. But there's just so much that I
get to do in this role, and I'm honored and
really in the education component of it, was excited to
share my path and my journey with youth to know that,
(16:55):
you know, you don't have to know everything, you don't
know need to know what you want to be leaving college,
leaving right out of high school or whatever it is,
and especially in today's climate, but to know that you
can find a career in a museum or um. You know,
in these odd odd places, in these unique jobs. There's
there's work to be done. And now with COVID, we're
(17:18):
learning that there's so much to be done. UM, we're
just evolving the way we create at this point. So UM,
you know, it's really amazing. UM when our when our
interview people are I look at my life, you know,
because it starts someplace why these people forces need to
be heard. And my minor in college, my degree is
in mathematics. My mind was in sociology, sociology, and I
(17:46):
always tell people that sociology changed my life, you know,
because of the fact that it made me realize what
why we're all fighting right now, that so much was
denied educationally in my high school, real my middle school
with they just stopped, you know, they know when they
brought us over his slave, they freed us and then
he swung forward to Brown versus a board of education.
(18:09):
Then they went to mar Luther King. He got assassinated.
That was it. That was our black history. And that's
how that was our black participation in this country according
to the people who allowed that information to y'all because
they didn't want to let anybody know how we were mistreated.
Like and that's what the that's why I respect about
the Jewish community. They got their story, told the Jewish people,
(18:30):
they're telling their story that they letting everybody know what
the Germans did. And with the Holocaust world, don't you
don't you try to bask this. Y'all did this to us.
And so when it's happening with the blacks in America.
And when you when I took this tote, it brought
me the tears. I realized I didn't know. I didn't
know because nobody allowed that information to be shared with me.
(18:53):
So whenever I meet a fellow sociology major minor person,
it's a certain because guess what, you know what I know.
You know the pain that I'm talking about, you know
the anger. Then I'm talking about the disappointment I have
to say in the American educational system denying information. Come
on now, and that's true. And then and then when
(19:15):
you look at it too, I'm like, the role that
we play and what we do in society is really
to just be truth tellers, to really break the truth
and whatever it is I mean, I mean, it's the
most quote to be, to be a reflection of the times.
And that's why I love you. And we can break it.
(19:36):
Let's do it. You can't have the wine with it,
but you know, and and it's and it's so true.
I mean, whatever your career path is, be be an
activist in that. And that's where I's like, hey, we
can change the narrator. We can share stories that have
never been told, or highlight musicians whose stories aren't out there,
the Laverne Bakers of the world. I mean, let's share
(19:58):
those stories, let's talk about those stories. And to be
able to do that, like you're doing through your show,
to do that in a museum like the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame or the Grammy Museum or whoever,
the Smithsonian, it's an honor to write that history that
people can then go back and have another and a
fresh perspective based on something that you were able to
(20:20):
to introduce. I think that's powerful. Well, talking to you
is powerful. We're talking to you. Know why why I
started this show. Every interview I go, I get more relaxed,
I get more honest about because you know, started an idea.
Everything starts with that idea. You don't know if people
are buying too and people and you know, I remember
I first started the show. You know, I didn't know
if they was calling me because they know I knew
(20:41):
famous people like Steve Harvey. I was managing them, or
the calling because Rushan McDonald. They wanted to hear if
they want to buy into what I was trying to say.
And so now there's changed that people are understanding my
message is about them. You know, you're the star, you know,
but you know, but it's a start in different lane
because everybody used to stars and on television and the
(21:01):
favor But the stars of the entrepreneurs stars are the
people of the machines, the people who we call the movies,
and the shakers of this business who sometimes imply private planes,
and the people who you consider the star still on
first class, you know. And that's how businesses. And I'm
talking to Reset to Stay, I'm talking to the vice
president and chief Career Curator I call u c C
(21:25):
at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Cleveland.
You know, see, I will just tell you all this.
I'm just catching that on the on the on the
on the ride, on the ride, because you know, she
was just she was. Cleveland just did a big spread
on her a few days ago. She said, yes, you're right.
(21:46):
How you know all that stuff? How you know that?
Because Sai, I know we can see you all. I'm
not the pertinent proclaiming you as the next big star
in this, in this, in this what when I say
a perfect time. She's black, she's beautiful, she's informative, she
has a resume. You know, I always hear people you
(22:07):
know the next step is president, face President. You're not
down there, you know, You're not down there selling tickets
no more, you know what I'm saying. And I like
her because she got two titles. You know what I'm saying.
She walked around just cause she get bored of being
the VP. Can just be a chief creator? Right? Que
(22:28):
what you doing over here? Chief creators in the room.
So so let's let's tell everybody what her chief creator.
It's not something some some contraption in your kitchen to
make break. Okay, it's not a blender if you get
buy on late night TV. Okay, what is a It's
(22:51):
not a vita mix? Uh juicer? What is the chief creator?
Oh my god? Yes? But essentially, the website dictionary term
for curator is truly just the keeper of the collection
(23:14):
or the custodian of the museum. So I'm overseeing the
entire territorial Affairs division. And so that's from our library
and archives UM into our collections, into our curators and preparators,
and I mean it's a it's a team that makes
all of this move and work. So UM I advantaging
(23:36):
that team, overseer of that UM and making sure that
you know the narratives and the stories the artifacts that
we collect UM are relevant, are powerful UM and are
making sure that we're keeping the museum UM moving forward,
keeping the community moving forward, keeping our perspectives moving forward.
(23:57):
So I'm again honored to be in the role, like
to be a gatekeeper, even it's just an honor. So
so yeah, that's that's my job as chief curators. How
I would would it now that even came down You
got me cackling over here. I need for water like water. Okay, Uh,
(24:24):
your latest exhibit has been said all alone has been
said along with voices of rage, hope, and empowerment. Share
with us you know what that is about and what
it's important because when when we we we started out
talking about the importance of music, and and you was
like you said, walking in, how do you get the information?
How do you how does information come to you? Our
(24:44):
records come to you, or guitars coming to you or
jackets coming to you. Because all this is a part
of the process of what should be in the in
the museum and why it's important to put in the
museum because aren't you kind of like limited on your
space because the building is a in size and then
what do I what I put it? I just put
(25:05):
it on video. Now how do you continue to grow
your brand? Right? UM, you're completely like thousand percent correct
that we have a finite space of what we can
you know, exhibit in the museum, UM, a finite number
of galleries in the museum and a growing collection, which
(25:26):
is absolutely beautiful to have a you know, a solid
permanent collection that can help to tell tell a story
like it's been set all along. UM. I was really
grateful to be able to just pull artifacts from our
collection that have either never been on display before UM
or to you know, go out and look for a
(25:48):
new artifacts to help UM further the conversation with newer
artists who are making music now and who are are
new UM cooners and culture shifters of today, UM, and
to continue to tell that story. So, you know, in
this world, in this pope, curating through COVID, as I
call it UM, which is something that we're all doing.
(26:10):
UM is recurating how we reach people. So to do
things virtually now virtual exhibits, you know, was something that
museums played with, but it's now something that we're having
to rely more heavily on just because you know, tourism
is down. Museums are closed UM permanently or you know, temporarily.
(26:32):
So we have to find new ways of reaching our audience.
So to go beyond the gallery space, to go beyond
ten thousand square feet or seven thousand square feet UM
and make it virtual where the globe can see the
work and and learn from it and be inspired and
moved by it. That's really powerful. So we are shipped
(26:53):
into a more digital UM experience that we create for
our visitors. UM. But you did ask me about It's
been said all along voices of rage, hope and empowerment,
and that really was birth out of I'm calling it
is our civil rights of this new millennium, you know,
with the civil rights movement of UM, where you know,
the killing the murders of of you know, black bodies.
(27:17):
Let's just call it what is UM, you know, the
murders of black bodies. The musicians who have risen to
the occasion to lend their voice and put their bodies
on the line UM musically, UM, putting their careers on
the line by speaking up and speaking out during such
a critical time UM, and to continue to pass on
(27:37):
those messages and narratives that inspired this new generation because
when you look at it historically, in every war, going
back to the Civil Wars, revolutionary, the musicians, the bands
always went out first. Those trumpets and those horns were
facing the soldiers, those people who are on the front line.
The music was always a part of the narrative. It
(27:58):
is a part of our cultural shifts, like every revolution
has a soundtrack. So from Martin Luther King having marching
arm and are with Navid Staples or the Staples singers
or you know, either Caves being in the mix or
whoever I mean from the music is gag wonder come on,
(28:21):
I mean, the whole thing. Um music has always played
a curst So to anyone who I say, who wants
to diminish that, um, you gotta be blind and disillusions.
I mean. So that's why this exhibit is called It's
been Dead all along, highlighting black voices who have been
speaking out about injustice and inequality and for equal rights.
(28:44):
One of the things that I love about managing our
collection and being so new to Cleveland into the Rock Hall,
is that I'm discovering things maybe that um the staff
may have forgotten about, or you know, they may have
seen it, so it's fresh to me. UM. So that's
really nice to pull out these things that are in
our vault. UM. We have these beautiful lyrics written by
(29:07):
James Brown. We always typically hear you know, say it
lot on black and I'm proud. We don't hear the
other anthem, don't open up the door for me, or
you know, I don't need nobody to open up the door.
I don't get it myself. You know, we have the lyrics,
we have the I don't mean nobody, I don't need
(29:30):
you to do this for me. So, I mean we
have those lyrics that those are affirmations. Those are messages
of of um, strength, of rage, of hope, empowerment, and
so that's where I wanted us to. You know, we
go through these transitions of rage, hope, and empowerment and
still come out resilient. UM. The photos that are even
on display in this exhibit are primarily from black photographers, UM,
(29:53):
some who people may know, some who they may not,
including Chuck Stewart UM, who is phenomenal, who shot the
album cover for Gil Scott Hearing and for that single
the Revolution will not be televised. I mean the girl
come on now. Just you make me mad, girl, I
(30:16):
wanted just follow your roses. Won't be like, oh, you're
a little bit black man on your show. You're just
walking about HRC. Turn right, turn right, girl, girl, who
are you talking? Nobody's nobody don't. I can't let you
in here. They find out you on my shoulder, They're
gonna knock you off because every time you talk, I'm
(30:39):
just oh that song, I'm just dropping the word a lyric.
Oh year, because girl, that that's that is a beautiful
thing to be part of history, living history and being
able to history. Right, No, it's it's absolutely beautiful. So
it is. It is, you know, a celebration of the past.
But while we are off so looking at the musicians,
(31:02):
the songwriters, the creators of the future UM to you know,
be inspired by their work as well. So that's you know,
essentially what that exhibit is. But it was it was
such a powerful thing to do UM you know, during
that time, and it's a great way again to to
make sure that these artists are continued to be talked
(31:24):
about in these institutions, in in the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame UM again, holding holding voices and holding
leaders accountable. I mean, these stories and narratives should always exist,
um within our institutions. So UM, I'm doing my due
diligence as as CC people who don't know, the people
(31:48):
who don't know, but to make sure that these stories
are are always in the narrative. Because the important thing
that you said, like as you said, not knowing about
um these important moments in our history and learning about
them at school and your undergrading your sociology and your
acro studies and Marco, you know what we're talking about.
(32:10):
When you started, you going for real for it was
like it was like it was it was, it was.
It was tragic information for me because I was one
of these guys who were read smart, one of know
at all guys. And I'm like, you kidding me. You
got to be kidding. You just gotta be a lot
just can't be. So it is so much information that
(32:31):
is denied of everybody, White people, Hispanics, blacks especially that
when you here being told to you go or this
some black stuff, listen, some made up some faith news.
Ain't know way black people did all this and you
we did, we did, we did. And to see that
I have a beautiful as they said Black Queen up there,
(32:54):
the vice president a k a c. C. Creator at
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. If Cleveland, I
know you've been to Slimmers. I gotta go to Slimmers
and get you some sandwiches up there clean. That's what
I mean. You gonna get low. See what I'm saying.
That's what i mean. But as soon as this pandemic,
I'm gonna get on. I'm apply Cleveland too much together
(33:18):
to do with that, but I'm gonna get up there
in the Cleveland. But now now the weather, now the
weather is taking a turn. Follows up. But no, no, no, no,
I love cold weather. I lived in Chicago five years.
I got closed that I can't. I'm in Atlanta now
I got closed. They just sit They're just sitting like
they just sitting in my closet because I have no
(33:40):
reason to put them on right now because the weather.
Oh yeah, but to Cleveland. I stepped on the plane.
People look at me like, I'm oh, he's just he's ready,
he ready, he ready for everything, He ready for everything.
But you know, the beauty of why I brought you
on the show is to let the world know about
you because you are a riding and star. You are
a representative of what we need, people who are willing
(34:02):
to share the information, but more importantly respected not because
of the color your skin, but who you are. Because
the color your stink would have stopped you. Who you
are got you your job. And that's what that we
need to understand. That's the narrative that's being discussed on
money making conversation today. I want to thank you. You know,
it's thirty more minutes. We got to stop talking. So
I don't know why people come in to the show.
(34:22):
I'll tell him. I'll tell him twenty man, they be
said talking to your talking, just talking, and we can
talking this thirty too. I ain't taking no blame for this, y'all.
And can talk. That's when she got the job. But
guy don't know how to stop talking. She'll not talk
talking people. They're probably walking around with ear plugs on
the pably probably probably you. Thank you so much for
(34:45):
having me though, truly honored for you recognizing me and
um and just for all those voices who are who
are rooting for me as well. Thank you. I'm rooting
and you stay safe. We talked soon. Bye bye. If
you want to hear more money Man cover say interviews
please go to Moneymaking Conversation dot com. I'm Rashan McDonald.
I'm your host, H
Host
Rushion McDonald
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