Christopher O'Brien

None

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Government's tonight, military's tonight, eventhe mainstream media denights. But they are
here and they've been clear for everylong time. The Mutual UFO Network has
been on the flock lines uncovering thetruth since nineteen sixty nine. And now
that we're sharing that truth with you, welcome lupon What's Up with your hosts

(00:35):
Kabi Page, Shane Hearn and Taraguid Jukes, exclusively on the KGr A
Digital Broadcasting Network, wondering What's up? So are we? What's up?

(00:58):
Everybody? It is another Tuesday night, the best night of the week,
Tuesday next because I get to behere live with all of you and our
special guests. You are listening tomuff On What's Up Radio, the show
that says discovery starts with curiosity,and curiosity starts with Muffon. Brought to
you by KGr adb dot com.I hope you go to their website and
check out all their excellent shows andtheir great content. As always, we

(01:21):
are endorsed by MUFON The Mutual UFONetwork, always asking that all important question,
are we alone in the universe?I am your host, Katie Page
to the Colorado MUFON State Director andMARS administrator. Plus I do my own
independent research and investigations out there.I'm happy you guys are all here tonight,
and boy, I mean I'm kindof fan girling out here. We

(01:44):
have an excellent guest for you tonight, and I am like super fan all
five books here. We have ChristopherO'Brien here, and I can't be more
excited to have him on the showtonight. He has just done incredible research
out here on this very fascinating topicof cattle mutilations, et cetera, and
all the high strangeness that goes withit. So I'm really looking forward to
having Chris on the show tonight.I also wanted to mention in a couple

(02:07):
of years or a couple of years, in a couple of weeks, I'll
be flying to Virginia and I'll betalking at the Mysteries the Space and Sky
conference right here on October twenty one, which is a Saturday in Maryland,
and that should be a fun event. So if you're anywhere in that area,
I hope to see you out there. That'll be a really fun day,
So check it out if you can. Mysteries of Space and Sky.

(02:30):
So let me go ahead and introducemy awesome, wonderful co host. We
have Tara Diulas. You can seeTara right here on Sky Tour stream live
with Mark Antonio on KGRA. Howyou doing, Tara? Hey, look
up Katie. Hello everyone. Haveyou had a good week. Yes,
it's a nice week, so that'sgood. Yeah, what is changing?

(02:52):
It's really beautiful, so that's awesome. Do the do you get the fall
colors like we do here in theRockies North We do Arizona for sure,
but not not such in the desert, right, yeah, so pretty this
time of year. And let's bringin Hi, Kathleen, good to have
you here. Let's bring in Shaneheard. Shane is assistant take director for

(03:15):
Arizona mouf On as well. Howyou doing, Shane? I think you're
muted. I was coughing earlier.Appreciate. Yeah, doing all right,
but been busy, but you knowwho isn't so yeah, that's right,
right, And you know, Iknow not to bragger anything, not that.
Tara and I don't work hard allday long, but you're working a

(03:37):
full time job too, so youknow I have to remember, like oh
boy, yeah right yeah, yeah, busy for sure. Yeah yeah,
Well We appreciate you taking the timeto be here. I know you stay
sometimes over at the office and itmakes a late night for you so special.
Thanks to Shane glad to do it, Ajol Fox, glad you're here.

(04:00):
So Ara, what do you haveto kick us up tonight? Oh?
Great? Well, today's meme bringsus to a landscape with a cow
sitting under a tree, Only he'sactually sitting on a teen er totter with
the low end on the ground andup above him on a from a branch
above jumps an alien onto the highend and as a cow looks that put

(04:20):
in, the alien shouts sorry thetractor beams busted. Isn't that appropriate with
Chrispy and your tonight? That's hilarious. I don't think a little alien has
a much as much way as heneeds to get him launch, brother,
I don't think so. It substints mass on that alien. I don't

(04:40):
know. The cows just looking ifthey're so patient, you know, sitting
there. I won't say it.I was gonna say maybe he doesn't have
half a brain. I didn't arguewith my kids. What a cowsping?
Do they? I don't know.We'll tell you about cowsping. You know,
we'll yeah, we'll definitely talk aboutthat. Well, well, there's
a theme running today, so oundin Etsy are all sorts of fun gifts

(05:01):
featuring cow abductions. And there's kindsof t shirts and sweatshirts, all sorts
of images. And then there's abeautiful stained glass with the UFO and a
cow dangling in the beam. AndI'm loving these steel stainless dangle earrings.
Those are very fun. And theholidays are coming up. How about an
abduction ornaments the little blue glass clowat the bottom? I love it.

(05:25):
So this awesome table lamp changes colorsand has an alien inside at the top.
It's gorgeous. Here's a beautiful charcuterieboard. You know, a fun
item for the kitchen. Oh boy, I know. How about a give
my Christmas list? Grow I'm givingyou guys ideas. How about a model
kit that you can build and placethe cows in the scene yourself. That's

(05:46):
kind of fun. Maybe maybe youjournal and here's a notebook cover you ate
your's not fun. You can illuminateyour hallway with this fun night light.
Here's a conversation starter, an alienabduction cow mirror, if you get the
mirror, you might as well getthe earrings to match. Right, They're

(06:11):
really nuts. Okay, Actually Ilike this picture. It's it's a photo
realistic large canvas of a cow cotin a bean. It could be hung
anywhere. And then lastly, afterall this, if I were a cow,
I might be worried about being abducted. So I think that's why you
can always find them Halloween drest ucondposts. You know, maybe the aliens

(06:32):
won't recognize them. You just haveto look and you can probably find it
on at sea folks. That isfantastic. Some great fines right there.
That is awesome. So I lovethat Kit. It was shame last week
you talked about a film right onye did you watch it? Tara?

(06:53):
That was I didn't get a chancetoo, but I haven't listened. I
have it on my notes. Listen, what do you think, Katie?
I love The film was called theyWon't Save You, or that no One
will Save You, No one willsave you and there's no I was so
curious because there's no dialogue in thefilm. Yeah, and I want to
watch it again. I absolutely lovedit. Yeah. Nice, Well,

(07:15):
mel and I are going to watchit as soon as we can, So
okay, well we'll critique it whenwe can. All three talk about it.
But Shane, what do you have? Have you heard this week?
Yeah? Have you guys heard?There's another really interesting UFO show that came
out Friday as a matter of fact, on Netflix, and it is an
Ambulance Entertainment Vice Studios and Boardwalk Picturesentry into Netflix and it's a four part

(07:46):
documentary. I was able to watchit over the weekend and I thought they
did a really good case. I'mnot going to spoil it, but I
will tell you about some of theinteresting things on there. Again, it
was like a war episode documentary.And the first one was called Messengers,
and this was profiling the Stevensville,Texas case. It occurred in two thousand

(08:11):
and eight, and they just,uh, they just did a really great
job and laying it out talking tothe right people. It's sort of the
model where they'll they'll do interviews anda little bit of a re enactment and
some you know, CGI and stuffto help, you know, to move
the story along. And I thoughtthey did a great job. Wasn't sensationalistic
at all, It's very factual.I thought, and throughout the the each

(08:37):
episode they interviewed different experts. Soone of our friends, Kevin Nuth was
one of the individuals that you know, offered commentary on the cases. Uh.
And then there was also who was, oh yeah, Robert Powell.
So he was a former moof onguy and he's one of the co founders
of the SU which is LA LaLA that stands for Scientific Coalition of UAP

(09:03):
Studies. So so they had somescientific review on it as as they went.
The second episode, which was oneI was not familiar with, which
I was kind of amazed at that, especially as significant that this one was.
It was the broad Haven Triangle andbroad Haven is a town in the

(09:26):
UK. It was a Welsh town, and over four hundred and fifty people
saw this big cigar shape UFO asfirst reported by a group of boys,
and then it just spread like wildfire. And then the third episode, again
something I did not hear much about, was on Fukishima and that there were

(09:46):
UFO sightings immediately prior and then obviouslythe earthquake and all of that happened,
and they had some really interesting stuffon there and not heard. And then
the last one was one that wereprobably often there with is the aerial school
from Zimbabwe where you know, Ithink it was over sixty or seventy students

(10:09):
and teachers saw these things just youknow, feed away from them. And
this was the case where doctor Johnmac psychiatrist from Harvard, had went and
interviewed all of the all of thoseand we just love that case. Right,
it's just so so therest on thatbecause we watched the whole series just

(10:31):
the other night, and there's alittle twist on that fourth episode that I
was not aware of, and Idon't want to give a spoiler away,
but there's another different alternative view onthat case. And I was like,
oh, really, I had neverheard that before, so yeah, me
too, buy it. And itreally made you think and take a different
perspective and kind of way like,huh, you know, I'm not going
to give away what happened, butthere was a new twist to that,

(10:54):
and I really enjoyed that. Youknow, yeah, I know, I
don't want to spoil that either.You gotta watch. And then I read
this one article that had kind ofan interesting take on it, you know,
kind of a you know, areview of it, and they had
spoken to the director. His name'sJan Motskin, and I thought this was

(11:24):
really interesting because, you know,we we've talked a lot about how the
taboo has kind of been lifted sincetwenty seventeen, and you know, we
know that it has and many manypeople are able to come forward and speak,
but you know, it's not dead. The taboo is still there.
And this was interesting comment he made. He said, I thought it would
be really easy to get people toparticipate in this film series, and I

(11:48):
was shocked at how hard it wasto get almost everybody to agree on camera,
to be on camera. He stated, it was a traumatic event for
almost all of these people, andthat is something to consider, right And
so I realized by the end ofthat we're trying to get people to relive
a kind of trauma, and youknow, and then to some people it

(12:11):
was just sort of a stigma orshame where they're embarrassed and they don't want
to be outed, so to speak, in their community. I think that's
just so sad, you know thatwe're people are still you know, being
held down by that. But itis true, and we just it just
tells me to be more sensitive,you know, about people in their experiences

(12:31):
and not you know, not puttingthem on the spot per se and and
you know, being a little gentlewith them and that that's something we learned
on the art as well. Soright, and we're still up against that,
and especially you know, these smallerclowns. I've been doing some you
know, in person interviews and stuff, and there's people that are like,
I don't want to be on camera. I don't want my face out there

(12:54):
because it'll ruin my reputation in thistown. And it's still going on and
we have to be very sensitive forthat for sure. Sure yep, good
point. So yeah, so thatwas that was about it. Just wanted
to make that known to folks andI highly recommended it. Feel it's well
done. Yeah, yeah, let'sshow the tail. Yeah, let's do
it. The very first time Isaw something in the sky, I really

(13:18):
hesitated to say anything that anybody.This is where it landed. Half of
the door lights, It was likethe cool algy How was it one with
whatever it was? They looked likeidentical, a very big hedge. Walt
wat. We don't know. Thiswas not a one off event. These

(13:41):
things happen all the time. Theyhappen all the time. Since the nineteen
forties, we've been told by authoritiesand scientists that this is ridiculous. There
were over sixty kids that's saw whatI saw. The guys thick and I

(14:09):
could to eat. And I thinkwhatever people saw was intelligently controble and it
was not manufactured by the United Statesor any other nation for that matter.
When I started looking into these stories, we can get files from thirty fourty
years ago that we've never been ableto see. They were tortured by the
fact that no one would listen tothem. You are You're trying to live

(14:31):
in normal life, You're trying tomove on. But opens some force again.
My relationship suffering. I suffering.I'm still on my quest. I
will find out what happened. Wehave to keep relearning that lesson that human
beings are not the center of theinternets. Most people would say the question

(14:52):
is like, oh, we arealone. I think the question is who
are we? And good question?Who are who are we? Why are

(15:16):
we here? What are the dayof the week? So taren you want
to share your mark case first?Or should I go first? Which do
you want to go? Oh?You can go first, go for it.
Katie, Well, I have avery short one, so I could
do mine super fast because I'm sawI didn't look at all. Your image
is gonna go pretty. But eachother sometimes like I don't know until like

(15:39):
the last night, I'm like,oh, it looks like she has a
good one. Yeah, I'm so. I'm excited to see what you have
to share. But I just sincewe have Christopher O'Brien on, I thought
i'd go into the system and seewhat we have for mutilations. And this
one, this case one two six, three, five eight, it's a
category one case. It occurred AprilApril twelfth, twenty twenty one, twelve

(16:00):
five in the afternoon, and it'snorth of Tucson, so right in your
neck of the woods, you guys. And the witness states that she saw
an object. So she said,this object was above us right at noon
in a clear blue sky. Itwas dark in color and rough in texture,
almost like the surface was made ofpanels. I was with my dad

(16:21):
at the time, but didn't wantto give his info. He is the
one that first noticed it's moving westto east slowly. When I saw it,
it appeared to have stopped. Itdisappeared as we were looking at it.
I have seen other impossible lights outhere at our property that border state
land north of Tucson. I haveneighbors that have also seen objects here.
We have also had cattle mutilations happenhere, parts cut off, very clean,

(16:45):
no tracks or blood. I havethose pictures. It happened in a
narrow time window, so they sawthis object in a small window of time.
The mutilation occurred. The investigator wasunable to do any interviews or gather
more information for whatever reason, soit went in as insufficient data. But

(17:06):
we have a couple of pictures here. They're not overly graphic, but a
little bit. So we always liketo put up a warning that it may
upset some viewers. But there's theone photo and then there's the other,
and it's really hard to tell fromthe photos. And this is something we
can talk to Chris about because unlessyou're right there in front of the animal,

(17:27):
I think it's really hard to tellwhat's going on here. But so
that's my case of the week.So yeah, well it kind of brings
up some questions I want to askChris about. But what do you have
for the marse case, Tara?I mean, do you get a lot
of mutilation cases there in Arizona.Before we move on, I'll let Shane
answer that. He's a little bitmore in touch with those. I haven't

(17:48):
seen any personally. What was thatyou mean, the mutilation cases in Arizona.
I actually had one myself. Yeah, yeah, and it was it
was literally a mile from my house. And what was kind of interesting about
it. I ended up concluding themost likely explanation was predation, just because

(18:10):
it was too old, I thinkto really tell. But it actually was
pretty graphic, and gosh, ifI thought about it, I would have
showed a picture of it. Maybeat break we can upload some Yeah,
I'll just show you this kind ofoh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah.

(18:30):
So its its head was missing andall of the internal organs and everything.
But you know, interesting here inArizona, state law says if you find
a dead livestock, you have tocontact the Sheriff's department, and you have
to contact the Department of Agriculture.And so when I was investigating that,

(18:55):
I met called them and they cameout on site and I had it all
taped off and stuff, and theycame out kind of rendered their opinion and
and the the ag guy also andit. But it's unusual to have an
entire head missing and some other thingsand again find it. Did they find
the head? Oh? I dida three hundred yard walk around in the

(19:18):
desert. Took me, you know, an hour or two to just keep
walking back. I couldn't find anything. But you know, coyotes maybe could
have pulled off. But you know, I'd be really interested in Chris's take
as well. And but you know, the stuff that happens every day in
almost every state, so it is, it's a real phenomena. Well,

(19:41):
in his book he talks about that. And I don't know if people realize
the number of cattle that are onthis planet, and and he given point
in time, there's billions of them. So let's you know, things happen.
So yeah, all right, Terry, what do you have for Mars
this week? Well, today's Marscase is a really old historic one,
about sixty five years old. Ittook place in about nineteen fifty eight aboard

(20:03):
the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt aircraftcarrier, you know, as it cruised
the waters between Florida and Cuba.So the historic mof On report was received
twenty years after the incident, andwas recounted by a shipman who was eighteen
years old while on duty during oneof actually three reported incidents where a UFO

(20:26):
reportedly buzzed the FDR. So,I think there's a picture of the FDR
and you can see that that's ahistoric picture of it. There see a
little forty two there, and here'sthe first of several witness sketches of the
siding. The witness stated he wasit looks like a picture there. He
was down below decks when people startedrunning up to the flight deck, so

(20:51):
he ran up the ladder and followed. So here from Life magazine is a
picture of the USSFDR and its flightdeck, and it gives you a scale
as to how large this ship is. That and once on deck, the
witness, along with about twenty fiveother individuals, saw a light in the
sky hovering over the ship at somedistance. It started out as orange but

(21:14):
then appeared red and it was keepingpace with the ship. And after a
short time the light descended to withina hundred feet where it now appeared oblong.
It was a cigar shape. Doesthat sound familiar? Shade with a
row of square windows softly lit frombehind. The witness stated, we could
see the outline of the occupants movingabout inside. He said heat waves were

(21:40):
emanating from the underside of the craftand he could feel heat from it.
There was no sound coming from it, but a person who was standing next
to him said he could hear aroaring or a low pitched grinding noise.
So the witness talked about occupants lookingout the windows. One was standing and
another one was at the window withthe raised arm as if trying to get

(22:03):
a better view of the ship andthe men below. He said he could
see the outline of bumps or protrusionfrom the head of the occupants that had
the raised I know it's a silhouette. He thought this might be some type
of uniform. Now, he said, it's within a hundred feet so this
thing was huge, right, sohe could he thought that maybe that might

(22:26):
be some type of uniform. Right, so he stated that the object was
about the size of a juice canheld at arm's length, but it had
rounded ends kind of sounds like atip tiktapoge a juice can just frozen with
rounded in So so they all watchedas the UFO hovered for about two minutes

(22:48):
two to five minutes, and theobject began to turn red from the bottom
up. The red suddenly changed orange, and the objects shot up into the
sky and out of sight at anincredible speed. So did this really happen?
Well, the Mars file does notcontain the investigative disposition or the investigation,
but it does contain some interesting tidbittidbits. There are newspaper articles with

(23:10):
the tension grabbing headlines, and thereare UFO Update Journal articles about the FDR.
And shortly after the nineteen fifty eightciting it's reported that the Chief of
Naval Operations, Navy Brass, AirForce Brass, Marine Corps Brass, and
some captains from other Air Force carrierscame aboard the Roosevelt. So a request

(23:32):
for public records was initiated by thewitness, asking for information specifically on incidents
of nineteen fifty two, fifty three, and fifty eight. Requested were photocopies
of pertinent log entries, all intelligencereports, all data entered into logs,
photographic evidence, radar, written narratives, and such. So the Executive Officer

(23:53):
of the US Roosevelt replied stating,I don't know of no such thing happening,
adding, and I'm sure I wouldbe aware of such an incident,
you know, had it happened.So the Department of the Navy Ship's History
Branch stated they found no injuries aboutany UFO sightings. The Department of the

(24:15):
Navy Office of the Chief of NavalOperations replied that no injuries were found relating
to any UFO sightings. The reportingparty even wrote to the TV show Unsolved
Mysteries asking them to do a showon the incident, and they also sent
a letter declining the suggestion. Sothe FDR's own newsletter years later, ran

(24:37):
an article about the sighting reports andasking the question to those who were aboard
during the time, did any ofyou observe the sighting or hear of anyone
who did. They were hoping toget someone to write in. You know,
Shane talked about it being traumatic.Some of these well. The witness
said that for some time after thesighting he found that he could not stay

(25:00):
in line on ship, and hewent a wall. He yep. He
returned, served brig time and wasassigned new duty stations. He stated that
all witnesses aboard the ship reportedly gottransferred or went a wall. So there
you go. Kind of an interestingcase there. Sorry, no, that's

(25:26):
really fascinating. And there's that beingnavy connection again right now. Yeah,
I think that's what's really crazy isis you know, we think the tik
tak and the gimbal and go fast, we're you know, we're it.
I mean, there's probably dozens hundreds, maybe of cases before and and they're
just playing dumb. So that's that'sa great case and a great a great

(25:51):
example of the value of Mars.Yes, and just historical cases in general,
like we'll never figure out this puzzlewithout number one, all the pieces,
with all the different offshoots of thephenomenon itself, number two, without
the historical data. It just youknow, so it's so dang important.
And that was an excellent case,Terra. Yeah. Interesting. I mean

(26:15):
sometimes I'll look through all these dangmagazines, you know, from the sixties
and seventies, and there's so muchin there. I mean, you could
spend a lifetime just going and relearningall these things, but that are just
not talked about or overlooked or forgottenabout, and I think they're really important
pieces to the puzzle and sosification too. You know. I mean that was

(26:37):
a ton of work right there thatyou just showed and pre personal computer.
So what a job that investigator did. Kudos to them. It really you
know, having a chance to reviewthese cases really up to my game and
held me to some standards that Ireally hadn't been you know, thinking about,

(26:57):
because they are just so thorough andit's easy to take a you know,
just not not look hard or takethat extra little step. But it's
they're interesting whether you do anything orabout just reading the cases I find are
fascinating. So and I think we'vetalked about this on the show a lot.
I mean it seems to me andyou know, you can disagree if

(27:18):
you want, but in working theMars cases and having just pioneers in the
field on it seems like the legworkthat investigators and researchers did years ago just
we've gotten, i hate to sayit, a little bit lazy with our
computers and just thinking we can sitbehind the screen and be what, you
know, whatever. And the workthey did back then, you know,

(27:40):
old school letters and interviews and gettingreports and radar and I mean it just
goes on going to libraries and youknow, things like this so yeah,
fascinating and I love That's why Ithink it's important to share these cases too,
So thank you for doing that too. Yeah, all right, I
think it's time to bring Chris on. What do you get? I think?
Yeah, I hit him on theshow, So, Christopher O'Bryan.

(28:03):
So. From nineteen ninety nine totwo thousand and two, Chris investigated hundreds
of unexplained events in south central Colorado, North central New Mexico, and north
central New Mexico. His investigations arechronicled in his Mysterious Valleyed Book trilogy and
his event log of UFOs cattle Mutilations, Crypto Creatures, et cetera, is

(28:26):
one of the largest databases of unusualoccurrences from a single region of North America.
His research was funded by Lawrence Rockefellerfrom nineteen ninety seven to two thousand.
His latest book, Stalking the Herd, is the most comprehensive book ever
written addressing the perplexing cattle mutilation mystery. He is currently marketing UFO surveillance gear

(28:48):
and software monitoring equipment with the UFOData Acquisition Project UFO DAP UFO DApp.
Their gear and software are located inseventy six locations in fourteen countries and growing
weekly. O'Brien has appeared in overninety TV show segments and films such as

(29:10):
Ancient Aliens, Coast to Coast toA, Fox Hunters Inside Edition, Extra,
Tucker Carlson Originals, and AMPTC Today, et cetera. He helped produce
the award winning documentaries It Could HappenTomorrow, Accidental Truth, and James Fox's
films Phenomenon and Moment of Contact,and he currently is located in New York.

(29:33):
Please welcome to the show, ChristopherO'Brien, Like I said, is
such an honor current to have here. I'm a stupid fan here just kidding.
You could borrow the books, Tara, I'll get yeah, a little
correction on the intro. My tenyears of of Official you know, that

(29:57):
went into my My Dada be andit's kind of the ten years that I
look back at sometimes rather than fondly. Was from nineteen ninety two to two
thousand and two, pretty much preInternet for the most part. Uh,
And it did involve hundreds of thousandsof miles of travel, hundreds of interviews,

(30:23):
possibly as many as a thousand interviewsthat I conducted real time with people,
and you know, I had togo to research libraries and and you
know, use paper morgues and andsheriff's offices files and and and do it
the old fashioned way of actually beingthere. Now it's so convenient with the

(30:48):
Internet that you can accomplish so muchmore in in the the amount of time
that I spent running around doing it, you know, old school and and
and that I think the point iswell taken that we can't get complacent and
we can't get you know, lazyand rely on our tools too much,

(31:11):
because a lot of what goes intogood research in this and these fields is
eyeball to eyeball, looking at people, how they how they recan't their their
testimony, looking at body language,looking at how they fidget, how they
respond to certain questions. This isall really really super important when you're dealing

(31:37):
with but you know, as someoneI think pointed out, these these events
can be the life altering they havebeen for me. I'm involved in this
because I'm an experiencer. When Iwas six years old, I had a
close and personal encounter with non humanentities that was the most you know,
important, life changing event, reallyin my life and sharing that with us.

(32:04):
Where and where and how and whathappened? Do you I sharing that
with us? Or well? Quickly? Yeah. I was followed around my
neighborhood by four three possibly four nonhumananities are definitely three. There may have
been a taller one that was standingback. The only reason why I could
really see them is they were holdingI called them stick men with spears.

(32:27):
They were impossibly skinning. They wereholding these glittering rods that were about almost
as tall as they were, andthey had very colored light and white light
kind of shimmering up and down,almost like phosphorns in the ocean. And
it gave off enough light so thatI could see the shape of their their

(32:50):
heads and their impossibly skinny arms,but it wasn't enough to really get details.
I blocked out what their eyes lookedlike. People constantly asked me what
they have the big eyes, andI really don't remember. And I've not
allowed myself to be regressed to openup any doors that I don't want to
open. And because I I wasnot paralyzed like most people who have these

(33:16):
experiences are, I was perfectly mobile. I dashed out of my room to
run up to my parents' room onthe second floor, and I turned the
stairs to go up to the secondflight of stairs, and they were standing
at the top waiting for me.And I got a little better look at

(33:37):
him because there was a little bitmore residual like in coming into from the
outside. I ran through the kitchen. They blocked my way, or for
some reason, I ended up insteadof going around to the back of the
house where my parents had a bedroomdoor, I ended up going the next
door to the neighbors. I wentto a hedge and went to their pounding

(34:00):
on the door, and nobody openedup. They had a like a yard
light that was displaying a pretty,you know, pretty large beam on the
ground of light. And so Iran out to the next neighbor's yard and
to get a lot of room betweenme and the light, and I was

(34:20):
waiting for them to come through soI could get a better look at him.
And and the thing that terrified mewas that they turned sideways came through
the light like pieces of paper,like all of a sudden, they had
no depth. They were two dimensionalor something like paper balls. And I
can only see these really thin linescoming through the light, and I don't

(34:44):
really remember much after that. Ipounded on the next name of the Barker's
door, and I remember the porchlight coming on, and that's the last
thing I remember until seeing my sistercoming with her robe flashy, putting on
a flat in the breeze from herrunning. I thought she was an angel
coming to save me, and itturned out it was my sister who was

(35:06):
eighteen. Oh my god. AndI wouldn't go down to my baby,
you know, to the baby mybedroom in the basement, and she said
I tried to nurse her. WhenI finally fell asleep, I was so
traumatized, and so you know,of course my parents say, they said

(35:27):
you were sleepwalking. It was anightmare, and of course I've never had
a nightmare like that since I've neversleepwalked. And my little brother believed me,
but everybody else in the family,you know, they they didn't really
make much about it, and soI just kept quiet about it for many,
many years. I didn't really Ittook me a long time, after

(35:51):
even getting involved in these subject matters, to come forward and talk about it,
because I was afraid that by openingmy mouth I would be trashing years
of hard work, and that myincredibility would just go out the window.
And finally I said, that's justbeing dishonest. I have to really,
you know, to tell tell peoplewhat I went through and how crucial a

(36:14):
role this particular incident made in mylife. I devoured every book I could
find on UFOs. I was avery precocious, smart little kid. I
learned how to read when I wasfor Wow, I read an Incident and
Exeter or you know, the weekthat it came out, you know,
in nineteen sixty five. This wasa really paradigm shifting event for me,

(36:40):
and as was the standing in lineat safe Way when I was ten,
and at this point, having readprobably a dozen books on UFOs Ballet Keel,
I read Georgia Damsky, Donald Johnky Land, Donald Keo read both
of them. Some I don't thinki'd read Interrupted Journey by then. I

(37:06):
don't even think it was out yet, but the Betty Hill Partney Hill story.
But very soon I read that,and we're standing in line at Safeway
and I see this headline on theInquirer flying saucers killed my horse in quotes,
and there's just horribly slaying horse lineon the ground and they're pointing that

(37:28):
in nineteen sixty seven, by anychance, Yeah, that was nineteen sixty
seven in November. And you know, my mom, she she took one
of them at the cover. Imean, I'm begging her for fifty cents
to buy the magazine and and shesays, you're not. I'm not going
to let you read that. Youknow that RAF or whatever. You know,
we're us And she was, shewas pretty adamant about her. But

(37:52):
I was absolutely insistent. I wouldnot leave that store until she bought that.
And so that's how I learned aboutthe first real publicized animal unexplained livestock
death case, the Snippy the horsecase. And uh and that's how I,
uh, I found out about theSan Luis Valley for the first time.
That was where I first saw thatterm. And it's you know,

(38:13):
a PQ my my curiosity. SoI went to, you know, to
the encycloped and I looked at lookedit up and looked saw where it was
and got a kind of an ideaabout it. And little little did I
know that in you know, thatwas what sixty seven. So fast forward
twenty thirty years there, all ofa sudden, I'm living in this place

(38:34):
right, and and it wasn't.I wasn't drawn there by UFOs and snippy
by any stretch. I had movedto Santa Fe with my girlfriend and and
we just didn't like it. Wesaw three horrible car accidents, and my
girlfriend was not a good driver,I felt, really was. But you
know, I haven't know that she'sgoing to be driving around in this crazy

(38:57):
traffic. And it just a placedidn't have a vibe that we were.
We felt, you know, likeit would be a good place to you
know, make home. So Ihad friends that lived up in the inquest
Own, this little town in theSant Louis Valley, and they had two
extra bedrooms. They said, look, you came here and visited a few
months ago. It's a beautiful place, so why don't you come up here
and see if see if it's youknow, something a place you'd like to

(39:20):
live. And so we don't onlyhave much of the choice at that point.
So we went up there and Iended up getting involved, and you
know, much much to my surprise, in all this uh par normal stuff.
And it all started with a NewYear's Eve party ninety two. Everywhere
went in the party, people weretalking about a UFO siding that had evidently

(39:44):
two big one hundred foot oals hadflown over town on the summer nights ninety
two. And I found eighteen witnessesas I started to look into it,
and out of there were twelve ofthem at my party. And now this
is a So it was a bigdeal to discover this. And when I

(40:04):
brought everybody together after you know,encountering little groups here and there and all
talking about the same thing, I'mseeing what's going on here, I brought
them all together and said, youguys all saw the same thing, and
you're I'm hearing the same story fromeverybody. And Charlotte High I never forget
she she goes, oh, Decembernight, that was the same night they
had a mutilation down in Coastia County, which is a couple of counties south.

(40:27):
And I thought, oh boy,here we go. And I immediately
went to my little local paper publisherKis and Dennett said, you know,
the crest On Needle needs this story. I've got a scoop. And so
she said, well, next papercomes out, and it's a monthly.
So next paper came out in twoweeks and he says, you know,
I'll give you five hundred words andmake it snappy and and do your your

(40:52):
due diligence. I'm not going tojust put something any old thing it's not
researched or anything. You know,give me something good. And within two
weeks I had enough material to writea book. Wow, the Mysterious Valley
is my serious vale? Is yours? Yeah? Yeah? And I got

(41:14):
him. I picked up a majorpublishing deal with Saint Martin's Press, that's
the second or third hardest publisher inthe world. And I got offered sixty
thousand by HarperCollins. But the bookthat they did on on the George W.
Bush Fortunate Son, they got suedby the Bush family and they had
to burn ten thousand copies and allthat money that they were gonna pour into

(41:35):
the pr publicity campaign for my book. And Whitley Steber had a book coming
out, and there's a couple otherSt. Martin's Press authors we all got.
You know, that was the endof the Valley. But they did
a big push on the book.It went went into ten printions. There's
a lot of a lot of copiesof that book out there. You know,

(41:57):
if I had known now what Iknew at the end of writing that
for book, I would have writtenit a little differently, but I stand
behind it. I tried to toshow the process of what it's like for,
you know, a neophyte investigator tobecome an investigator. And so I
discovered what I called rules an investigationalong the way, and I would share
those thirteen rules as as I learnedthem. And and that's you know,

(42:22):
it's kind of James Redfield. Ithink he had the solicitating prophecy, and
he had the ten the ten rulesof something and and and so I took
that concept and applied it to aninvestigative uh, you know sort of format
if you will. And uh,and I do stand behind all those rules.

(42:43):
I think they're very important for peoplethat want to get involved in this
in this field really have to haveyou have to have some clear guidelines,
and you have to have some somerules of investigation into not only it here
too, but have people who arebeing impacted by your work to hold you

(43:04):
to those rules. And and I'veyou know, for thirty years, I've
I've said, hey, people,if you don't like what I'm doing,
show me which one of these rulesI'm violating and and uh, you know,
I will, I will. Youknow, I will do better if
I can, you know. Andnobody's ever come forward, and not any
of them, so I guess Imust be doing something right. But you

(43:27):
know, we're unfortunately the you know, my mentor and teacher and research partner
and and very very close to yourfriend David Perkins, who I considered the
number one expert in the in thefield of cattle mulations, which is what
I've become fairly well known of itbefore. We just lost a month ago

(43:51):
ago, and and we were finishingup the initial part of writing the follow
up to Sucking the Herd. Hewas going to be my co author for
that, and and it's really ait's really tough continuing on without him because
we were very very close. Sohe was like an older brother to me.
And I considered him the brightest thinkerin the in this whole field,

(44:16):
not only the dead cows, butbut consciousness studies, guy in earth science
studies, you know, psychology,whether it's individual or collective psychology. He
was just a tremendous thinker. He'sone of the few people that really challenged
me intellectually consider myself to be apretty pretty, pretty bright guy and uh,

(44:40):
and he was the only one thatreally made me think, UH would
ask the questions that I would go, whoa you know, back in my
chair type thing, and wait aminute, I got to think about that
for a second. People are raregifts, aren't they. I'm sorry for
your lost Chris. Yeah, yeah, it was rough. But so now

(45:00):
that I've I've been put in thecaptain's chair, I'm I'm finding it's weird.
Just in the past month, I'veI've had I don't know, I'm
probably fifteen invites to be on showsand stuff, and I'm I'm now having
to turn people down and pick andcheese carefully what shows I go on,
because I just I don't want toburn myself out and become become over exposed.

(45:24):
I've you know, one thing aboutDavid David Perkins, You don't really
a lot of people haven't heard thatname before. That's because, like me,
he's never made a single call tothe media to promote himself. He's
never which to me is one ofthe you know, I wish I'd made
that as to a fourteenth rule inmy investigative rules. There's too many people

(45:46):
out there that are that are thinkthat this is a some sort of quick
path to fame or something or fortune. And let me assure you it's not
notoriety of one thing famous something Iwant to become notorious. Then yeah,
go around touting that aliens are comingin and they're gonna take over the planet.

(46:07):
They're gonna abduct your children, they'regonna remount your cow. That's not
gonna win you many points. Getmy book. And Christopher, how big
of a town did you grow upin? I mean when, when when
this event happened to you as achild. How like you said, it

(46:27):
seemed like it was a small town, And what about your family? Did
it wasn't? It was Bellevie,Washington when I was twelve. If I
still today had my paper route thatI had when I was twelve, I'd
be Bill Gates's paper boy. Ohmy gosh, Dinah is the It's like
the Beverly Hills of western Washington.Did your family have any experience? No,

(46:53):
nobody else, Well my dad did. He claimed that he saw strange
Craft on their brand new our unitwhen they he was in the Coastguard sound
right in forty seven when the MorayIsland Harold Doll Fred Krisman case happened.
He was in the Kenneth Arnold.He was in the Coast Guard from forty

(47:17):
five to forty eight, I think, and from forty four to forty eight,
and he did tell the family ona number of occasions, which he
denied later, that they saw objectsgoing in and out of the streets of
wonder Fuca and impossibly fast speeds,and when they reported it to their superiors,
they were told that they hadn't beentrained properly in how to read their

(47:42):
units, when they knew darnwell thatthey had. And so they realized that,
you know, that they should justkeep their mouth shut. And they
never made an issue out of itand said, well, we know what
we saw, and you know,made a big deal out of it.
They just you know, it wasone event. It happened. They saw,
you know, these things to sendten thousand feet and impossible, uh

(48:05):
time frame and it appear to goin disappear into the water. Us how
it was couched me. And lateron, when I got into all this
stuff, my dad totally went intodenial and got angry when I pressed them
on it. I never told youthat, so Chris you did. I'm
not making it up so you'd remembersomething. There was no this was never

(48:30):
a subject that ever came up,I mean when I was interesting. So,
Chris, do you mind sharing justa few of your kind of steps
of investigations with those who are kindof just starting out? You know,
well, yeah, opened them upand start reading them. For me,
it's been so long since I thesesubjects are polarizing now that they you know,

(48:53):
people immediately knee jerk react on oneside or the other. Yes,
they're believers, it's not believing,and you have to really, you know,
understand that at least up until therecent what I call the neo modern,
the new modern age of upology thatwas usually did with the New York

(49:15):
Times article, the Ralph bluemantal Keenarticle and in twenty seventeen. Ever since
then, we are in a nuancedperiod now of it's not either you believe
or you don't believe. There arenow nuanced levels in between now that this

(49:37):
subject has broken through, and somaybe that rule isn't as applicable as it
was back when I wrote it.But you're going to find that people,
you know, this either is somethingthat they're willing to accept the possibility of
or it's the demonic, it's ofthe devil, is going to be your

(49:58):
your number one around this country inthis day and age with a third grade
reading average that many communities have nowin this country, which is just I
warrant, uh, you're going tofind that. Yeah, it's if it's
something that has high technology and wedon't know what it is and it can't
be explained, it's got to beof the devil. It's got to be

(50:21):
satannic. It's got to be demonic. All this is demonic and one of
the one of the things that's RonJames are one of our foremost experts.
Excuse me, I've been seeing thatin all these articles and I'm thinking,
Wow, I got to get hispr guy. You know, Ron,

(50:45):
bless us heart Ron and I.It's kind of an insider joke. Ron's
one of my best friends. I'veworked with him on and ouf for twenty
years professionally in videography and other things. It's just I find it very interesting
that he should be quoted as sayingthat one of the reasons why we're having

(51:05):
such a problem within the US governmentwhile there's so much resistance about this new
age of modernity in the ufoverworld isbecause these guys are fundamentalists, these congress
people and politicians, and they believethis is demonic and we shouldn't give it
any attention that it should be.I mean, I mean back, you

(51:29):
know, I think a lot ofthe listeners know, and I know you
know, Chris At you know theTide to the Elbert County Ranch for me,
from the mid seventy seventy five toseventy eight, that's one of the
big things they looked at were Sataniccults. And where do you lie with
that? Right now? I mean, I mean, I know what my
own conclusion is that I drew readingall your books and others. But what
do you where are you with that? Well? You know again, I

(51:55):
really think it's rather ridiculous. Youknow, all through history and even into
prehistory, if humans didn't know whatsomething was and it had any sort of
veneer of negativity, then they wouldthey would think that it was you know,
bad gods or demons or whatever,you know, fill in the blank

(52:17):
of negative entity that you had inyour belief system. And this goes all
the way back to the Messiah andthe Dinka in Africa, the Greeks,
Uh, I mean they all hadthey you know, put put faces on
and and and and personified these typesof entities with characteristics, with personalities,

(52:44):
and and if you go into someof the cultures today, like if you
go to the Middle East and youhave a polter geist case, it's automatically
set a special type of law enforcementofficer will get involved in a in a

(53:04):
case of the gin. And there'seven a whole court system that's designed to
handle cases where the gin have beenyou know, fingered as as being the
perpetrator of a particular series of events. And there's even a legal system designed
around around this whole approach. Nowthis is agent we're going back, you

(53:28):
know, thousand plus years that we'vehad this type of interpretation of phenomenal events
in every countries. In near easterncountries in India, you have a similar
type of situation where certain certain typesof afflictions are thought to be caused by

(53:52):
negative God forms and that sort ofthing. In this country, of course,
being predominantly need major Christian uh andin going more fundamentalists every year,
it seems anything but in terms ofmy personal view on there's any colonization of
spirit is not a good thing forme. We all should have uh you

(54:15):
know, we all are responsible forour direct connection to our own divinity and
anything that tries to colonize that oror it to me is a very bad
thing. And we're seeing the resultsof that manipulation right now in this country.
And we could do I could doa week's worth of shows talking about
this particular subject, which I won'tbore you with. I think that is

(54:38):
a very very good way to putit, Chris, and I really haven't
heard anybody put it that way before. Like any time you've indulge in a
belief or in one form or anyform, and its dominantly in a box,
you have to keep keep your viewswide open and experience the ying and
the yang, the good and thebad, all these different things. So

(55:00):
I've never heard it quite put thatway before, and I really appreciate that.
Okay, Well, the bottom line, Katie is is that we have
a personal responsibility for our own processof connection with divinity. You don't need
a rabbi, you don't need apriest, you don't need some an intermediary
opening and closing the door for youto to your connection with God or the

(55:23):
Creator or Allah or or or youknow. It's it's it's a it's a
deeply personal spiritual process that we're allgoing through from birth to death, and
we owe it to ourselves to doingto others as we would have them doing
to us. That's the cardinal ruleand uh and everything else kind of falls

(55:45):
into a working of one's divine connectionto will. Your true will is your
divine will, and that's that's ournumber one. Well, with only a
minute left to break, I'm sorry, Shane, go ahead, non,
no, go ahead, it takeslonger. Go ahead, okay, because

(56:06):
I'm like, we'll have a littlebreak, And I was just going to
ask him, since we have lessthan a minute now before break, do
you think as part of the processof what contact is about to teach us
maybe these spiritual things have you seenthat kind of be part of the process
and a whole or do you thinkit is completely not that there is an
element of that? Absolutely, yeah, and we could talk about that when
we come back. I think that, in my case, is a classic

(56:29):
example of that. So okay,yeah, that's yeah. So when we
come back from break, we're goingto do and evening on Earth with an
extraterrestrial with Chris, So I'm anxiousto get his answers on that, and
we will dive into you know moreon the mutilations and and I want to
touch base two on you know whatyou what you think about everything that's happening
since twenty seventeen. So more withChris on the other side of the break.

(56:52):
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(01:00:15):
connected only at kg R a dBdot com. I got my dance anyway.

(01:00:45):
So new segment and Evening on Earthwith an extraterresture. I like to
ask our guests every week, sowhether you believe they're coming from somewhere else
or coming up from our oceans wherever, whatever we're dealing with, even if
it's interdumental, and that's what we'regoing to get into here a little bit
too. I want to know Chris'sview on that. But where on Earth

(01:01:07):
would you want to have an eveningwith an ET? I don't know.
That's I've never been asked a questionlike that before, So I like,
as I want them is in quarantinefor at least ninety days. Smart Smart,
Maybe we could have that passed throughsystem where they have gloves on their

(01:01:30):
side. We have gloves on ours, and we could maybe have I don't
know, Chinese takeout or something.That's an excellent answer, Like, so
you have the gloves, you're inlike a lab somewhere, and you're passing
through like the old, like theold, like systems at the bank or

(01:01:51):
whatever. I like, right,right, Chinese takeout And Okay, you're
gonna play some music in the background. What song or music or band would
you like? Well, I'm quitepartial to to ambient music. It's it's
what I listened to when I work, when I sleep. I have a

(01:02:14):
a really good Pandora channel that's deepambient, and I'm really into people like
Eric Wolco and Steve Roach and BrianEno and make Balls and there's a whole
bunch of really talented ambient composers outthere. I also make ambient music myself.

(01:02:37):
I'm a keyboard player. I wouldn'tI wouldn't think too, you know,
pollute their minds with some of theinanities that go for popular music.
Pass for popular music in this dayand age, there's very little of it
that has any sort of redeeming qualities. It's super compressed. There's no having

(01:03:00):
and flowing of dynamics. The humanelement is being processed and programmed out of
music. Everything's too perfect. Itall sounds the same. I sound just
like my dad did when I wastalking to him about the Beatles. It's
inevitable you call that music. AndI say, yeah, I do.

(01:03:22):
See a lot of other people andI said, I'm never ever, when
I get to be your age,i am never gonna talk about the kids
music the way you talk about ourmusic. And and look at you now,
just ask me about rap hey us. Last, for this is where
I liked the segment because now Ihave a whole list, like three or

(01:03:43):
four new people to go check out, and you're right having ambient music on
in the background. It's wonderful whenwe do that too at night when we
go to see like whether it's crystalsinging bowls or whatever, just to have
exactly add that. Well. Ilike the stuff that's scared towards, you
know, Beata and theta work myself. And then when I'm when I'm in

(01:04:04):
a in a position where I'm notdoing the major thinking, I'm doing projects
and things like that, maybe maybeputting things together, doing artwork that sort
of thing, designing covers or designingstuff. Then I'll I'll throw some beats
in man. I prefer the oneworld kind of music. One of my

(01:04:25):
favorites is Afro celt sound System,which is a combination of African North African
drumming and stringed instruments with Celtic musicand it's just absolutely jaw dropping lead.
Just you can't not be in ahappy place when you when you hear this
music and system. Huh what isthat called? Again? I would love

(01:04:47):
that celt sound System. Nothing nowthey're now I think they just call them
Afro celt now. But they've releaseda dozen or so albums and then the
first four albums are just really good. I can't speak enough about them.
And there's there's a bunch of otherpeople too that I really would like to

(01:05:08):
listen to that falls into that worldmusic genre. I like stuff that did.
I imagine somebody on the other sideof the world will be sitting there
bopping too as well. Yeah,and I'm sure any too would appreciate that
as well. I mean there's somethingtoo drumming in that, so yeah,
it's all it's all real people playingreal instruments, right. They do kind

(01:05:30):
of dive into a little bit ofof of electronic dance music. They do
have some some uh computer generated beats, but then it's all augmented with real
world class drumming and and the ulAnd player the single bag bagpipes that you
don't blow into it played like aflute with a bag. The ul and

(01:05:54):
player they have is is just unbelievablygood. And the flute and piccolo playing
and penny whistle playing is some ofthose Irish show reels and pen and Jake's
and stuffer along with the African beats. It's really fun, fun music.
I love that. I love that. I have to agree with you.

(01:06:15):
I have the Fisherman's h What wasthe movie The Fisherman's Well, Fisherman's Wharf
soundtrack, and it's all that likewhole like pirate music, and I just
love it anyway, it's very Celtic'sgreat. So what film would you show
an et? What? What?What's one movie? Film or movie?

(01:06:35):
I'd show him. I'd show himthe film Et as a comedy and and
and get their reaction of how thatlittle creature that has a next that went
when his next up? Oh youhave the little kid kuldkarate chop him and
kill him, you know, so, uh, that's great. That would
be interesting to get their reaction ofour maybe misplaced view of what you know,

(01:07:00):
non human life is intelligent. Humanlife is like a sense of humor.
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.And what one question would you want
answered? How come you've been youhaven't wanted to reveal your presence here on
this planet, which you've been herelonger than we have. How come you

(01:07:20):
waited so long to show up knowingthe answer? As well? When you
started popping off nuclear weapons, youput us in harm's way and we had
to show up to tell you thatyou're living alongside of bees nest and the
bees aren't happy. And that's whythose early sighting reports and the fifties,

(01:07:41):
forties and fifties featured fleets of UFOs, I mean large groups of UFOs.
They showed up en mass to letus know that we're in trouble, that
they think we're playing around with theiryou know, that their with their potential
safety and and perhaps they don't trustus with our new toys. And that's

(01:08:03):
why we had the modern age ofUFOs begin because of our use of fissionable
materials. There's no question in mymind that that's why they showed up.
And I really do think, youknow, get into the question that you
mentioned before the break, What doyou think we're dealing with here? I

(01:08:25):
think we're dealing with other tenants inthe building. We're not. There's other
intelligent you know, non human entitiesthat are impossibly quasi human entities that that
exist here alongside us. Whether they'rein the two percent, you know,
we've the ninety eight percent of theoceans that we haven't explored. There's a

(01:08:47):
good chance that it's not by accidentthat the first intelligence agency in this country
was founded all the way back inthe eighteen eighties. And it was there.
There wasn't the army, It wasn'tuh, you know, foreign some
sort of foreign intelligence agency to gospy on people. It was the Office
of Naval Intelligence. Started back inthe eighteen eighties. Why because sailors were

(01:09:12):
seeing events described on the Roosevelt andfifty eight. There's good there's some pretty
tantalizing evidence to suggest that we've we'vehad our warships have seen uh, you
know, prior to the turn ofthe nineteen to twentieth century, that they
had seen things. Uh. There'sa report from the ninth, nineteen fifteen

(01:09:34):
of a very close encounter of acraft with our our navy. So it's
not like the government hasn't known thatthey're here. It's just that they didn't
have a way. Back then,they had absolutely no clue what they were
dealing with, but they sure asheck started a branch of the Navy to

(01:09:57):
try to exhaust all efforts to findout what going on. It wasn't for
another sixty years that we had ournext intelligence agency in this country. And
I think that that that underlines thatpossibility that we are dealing with something that
has the presence in our oceans.Also, I think there's a possibility that

(01:10:19):
we're dealing with something that slightly that'slearned how to be or is slightly out
of phase with our particular dimensional reality. That they're existing maybe in frequency ranges
that we can't detect readily, thatthey are able to manipulate their phase abilities

(01:10:40):
and can phase in phase out ofour reality. Whether you want to call
that dimensional. Maybe it's you know, due to some sort of dimensional dimensional
capabilities, or maybe it's just simplya phase existence that we aren't aware of.
The People often ask me, well, what do you Why why are

(01:11:02):
these aliens coming here and taking thesebody parts? And I said, well,
how do you know that they're notactually us sending back from the future
chefs to gather parts that are fromanimals that are illegal to eat in the
future, which they will be cowswill be illegal to eat sometimes, and

(01:11:26):
they and they're bringing them back fortrillionaires to have million dollars dinners of illegal
cattle parts. That makes way moresense than anything coming from outside of our
solar system, or even from oursolar system coming here to take out the
rear ends of cows, gather genitalia, make a lip and I stew or

(01:11:47):
utters to flay or whatever the hellthey're doing with the bloodketting. Yeah,
if the criteria hybridize your dying race, which is the Kakamami, we reason
that I hear constantly being touted about, Oh, their their their race is
dying. They need cattle, hemoglobeand genetic material to hybridize their dying race.

(01:12:11):
Well, why the heck don't theypick the lock on on a one
of them big super freaking farms upin in Well County, uh and and
and go in there. There's hugevats of hundreds of gallons of the stuff.
Just slop up some of that andbeaming up aboard your ship or do
it with a with a teeter totteror whatever however, you know, and

(01:12:35):
uh, and leave our poor cowsalone. They're not speaking around in the
pastures of our of our world,gathering parts for for some nefarious purpose on
for some nefarious uh you know it'skaka maybe BSh. None of it works.
Well, mean, it's at leastlike the possibility. Could could I

(01:12:57):
ask you, because you're leading intosome things. I I want to talk
a little bit about UFO DApp.But first I was gonna say, I
think you and I met. Itwas at a conference, uh, and
I think it was maybe the InternationalUFO Congress, maybe Phoenix and twenty nineteen
ish something. I gave my myuf DAT presentation. Now, yes,

(01:13:20):
and we sat there at the tablefor a while and chatted. But I
did want to talk a little bitabout UFO DAT because part of what you're
talking about here is is a youknow, a couple of points. One
is that you know, uh,they're not making theirselves their presence, you
know, formal contact. Right,We're left with all this this uh mystery

(01:13:45):
of who they are and what theyare, and there's a lot of theories
on that, but you know,there's no evidence or you know, actionable
data to to to do that.And I know at one of the intentions
of UFO TAP what was to collectsome meaningful data. We can't have to

(01:14:08):
sifically, you know, make somedecisions based on some science, because I
mean, you made a good point. We're anthropocentric and we personify everything,
right, cartoons, ships, whateverit is where this is how humans think.
We just can't help it. Soyou know, whether it's God and
he's an old man on the thronein the sky or or you know,

(01:14:30):
gods and goddesses like Zeus and whatever. You know, it's just how humans
operate. But the fact is therethere is a reality that we're dealing with.
There is an objective which I don'tI don't deny it. Yeah,
people people introduce me as as aufologist from time and time, and I

(01:14:50):
I politely ask him not to referto me. I don't want to be
lumped in with those people because ofthe of the the citrestrial hypothesis. To
me, it's the least likely explanationof what we're dealing with and in order
to make any headway on this particularconundrum or question, if you will,

(01:15:13):
I've been working for years with WayneHollenbeck, who was a move On member
Orange County move On for many years, did contract law for the CIA for
classified materials. Was kind of pluggedin on some levels in aerospace and other
places. And he tricked me intoaccepting a camera and a bunch of ethernet

(01:15:39):
cable to hook up a camera ontop of a building in Sedona when I
was living in Arizona, to totry to capture some of these sedonium aerial
activity that goes on from time totime. And you know, he tricked
me into it by leaving it thereand then telling me, oh, by
the way I left a camera there, I want you to hook it up.
And so that's how youth adapt.The genesis of it started. Back

(01:16:02):
in two thousand and five. Ihad always had the dream of going to
the San Luis Valley with with gearand trying to you know, have a
have a standalone system that would thatwould be able to on its own autonomously
pick up, you know, evidenceof stuff. And at the time when
I tried to cost it out,it was virtually impossible to accomplish. But

(01:16:24):
if if I had the transmitters andthe other things that I needed, it
would have been somewhere around eight ornine hundred thousand dollars at the time I
didn't have that. Yeah, well, can you can you describe for for
our audience what UFODT. Yeah,you fodapt is is. Uh, it's
pretty simple. Uh. It's asome software that has been designed by a

(01:16:50):
gentleman named Ron Old. He's acomputer science scientist, wiz. He worked
for Disney. H he's, uh, you know, an inventor. Basically,
he designs and then invents electronic gear. And what he's done is he's
devented a software architecture that allows fordifferent data gathering instruments to be coordinated together

(01:17:19):
autonomously by on their own. Andthey range from up to six optical systems.
Cameras pantilt zoom analog cameras with blazegratings for breaking light at night into
its frequencies. It's different spectra,fixed cameras with world wide angle lenses fisheye

(01:17:43):
all sky cams to cover the entiresky. If you have that kind of
vista, you know, if you'reon top of a tall building. Then
you have an unobstructive view, usea scott All skycam and then that will
trigger the computer to alert all theirsensors. Now, along with up to
six of these cameras, you canalso get the MSDA, which is a

(01:18:06):
multi system data Acquisition unit which hasa variety of scientific gear which includes magnetometers
similar to what Francis Ridge and hismade our program as, but ours are
a little bit more powerful. Soa magnetometer to register any changes in the
Earth's magnetic field. You have accelerometerswhich are tied in to GPS and then

(01:18:30):
tied into the Earth's measuring the Earth'sgravity field and looking for any performations or
changes in the gravity. There's aradio frequency spectrum analyzer which zips up and
down the radio frequency looking for anyaberrant spikes in the radio frequencies. Similar

(01:18:50):
like Skinwalker Ranch where they have thatone point sins you make her signal,
That would be an example of ofyou pick it up with a radio frequency
spectrum analyzer. And then there's acomplete atmospheric uh you know, sweet speed,
temperature, temperature, the humidity.It's the same package that they use

(01:19:13):
on the space station. The samesame thing. And then there's you know,
we're gonna down the line, we'regonna have radar. We're gonna be
going in and put in some moremore exotic experimental gear that can plug in.
You have a two additional plugins thatyou can put other other gear of

(01:19:34):
your own choosing. Now, allthis stuff is contained in a box which
is about this big wow, bythis wide, by this stall and U
and it. It has its owndedicated computer software program that allows you to

(01:19:56):
operate the gear anywhere in the worldover the Internet. It has most importantly
for the optical stuff to sexy,uh stuff that all everybody wants to.
Let me see some footage. Imean, you know, everybody wants to
see footage. Nobody wants to seemagnetic data or gravitations because they're not scientists.
And that's what scientists want to Iwant to see. They want to
see the stuff that they can reallyyou know, learn learn something from optical

(01:20:20):
data is only good for for oozeand oz. It's like going to fourth
of July. I think these areall wonderful advances, though, I mean
seeing in different lay Yeah, I'mnot knocking it. I'm just saying that
the other data is vastly more importantwith scientists unless you're an optical physicist,

(01:20:41):
which Bruce of Bacabee would be anexample of one day. So what's important
is how don't they put this sincesince optics are are so important, he
put a lot of thought into howto get the cameras to work as one
unit. Everybody have seen all sortsof really fun UFO footage, but you

(01:21:04):
haven't seen a second camera filming itthe same event. If you have a
second camera, what happens? Youcan triangulate the event. Now our unit
has complete GPS, it runs offGoogle Maps. When an event occurs,
it shows you a dot on amap. It gives you altitude, gives

(01:21:24):
you speed, it gives you relationshipdata which you normally can't have just in
with a single camera. So ifyou have up to six cameras that know
there's an event, they've been alertedby the software, and they wheel around
in concert together and focus on theevent, it's amazing how much data you

(01:21:47):
can get from that. And what'seven more fun, these design targeting software
that motion tracks and follows the object, so it can be flying around and
you're gonna have all six cameras followingit with the cameras closest to it zooming
in the other cameras taking intermediate positionsout to infinity to why super wide angle.

(01:22:13):
So our software has been for threeyears, has been on a deep
learning the curve of the lesson.It's been teaching itself how to discriminate.
I was going to ask, Ithought I read that there. Yeah,
it's it's self disting. So it'sfactors out, bugs, birds, particulate

(01:22:36):
matter it has. It's still havingsome difficulty with, but it's learning that.
And obviously conventional aircraft, you canhook it into flight twenty four,
which is your your programmage used todetermine any transpondered flight in your area.
And also if you want, youcan take the the GPS data and send

(01:23:00):
it off the space dot Com andyou can actually get still images of the
area during the event and look headdown view from space at the area in
which you've had an event happened.This is people say, well, you're
you followedists. I say, no, I'm not a U follogist, but
if I was, this is whatI would be working on it. What

(01:23:24):
do you think Chris about like thetrickster element? So I mean, if
there's a trickster element to the phenomenon, could they just avoid these cameras well,
that's that's that's a big possibility.But see, I think that we're
in a in a cat and mousegame here. I think that they've been
waiting for us to go. Yougot us, you know, so,

(01:23:47):
I'm an optimist. I'm filling thelast you'll forget this, the half full,
half empty a scenario, I'm fillingit. I think it's it behooves
us to try to use the powersof modern technology and h and low cost.
I must remind people that to geta full blown system is less than

(01:24:11):
five thousand dollars. To get anelementary entry level system is three hundred.
You can start with three hundred dollars, have the software, a couple of
cameras, and you're you're out tothe races, and then we're not making
any money off this ron makes ninetydollars for his software. He spent six
years and wrote one hundred thousand linesof code. We need to type them

(01:24:33):
up on this time. Ninety dollarsto pay for the brains of this thing
is not that big of a deal. You can add on whatever gear is
going to work with the with thesoftware. There are certain cameras that we
recommend simply because you're going to getbetter quality for your for your dollar.
But what he does these are deployedChris. You know, we're in fourteen

(01:24:57):
countries. We have eighteen states inthe United States, two provinces in Canada,
and we have at last count seventysix. We're expanding weekly. It's
growing incrementally now that the beyond SkinwalkerRanch crew is using our gear to take

(01:25:18):
take out to these hotspot areas andwe have actually uh gear at Skinwalker Ranch.
They use the software to coordinate theircameras. And we have a guy
that's at the Wolf Research Project,which is next door to skin Walker,
and he's putting in the system towatch the watchers, which I like that.

(01:25:41):
Yeah. I thought I saw onone of these television shows a couple
of years ago. They were onCatalina Island, and I thought that,
what they have your equipment there?Yeah? Yeah, uap X y UAP
has our system. They've plugged acup of their own things into it,
and so they've renamed it something else, which I find a little dis caseful.

(01:26:08):
It's I mean, come on,credit where credit is due, guys.
Yeah, you know we're the first. A number of people have tried
to do this, including you know, as you know well known Mark D'Antonio
was working with the group with fundingfrom Douglas Trumbull, the famous special effects

(01:26:30):
guy from Blade Runner and Close Encountersand unfortunately died now but a system that
was going to be dropped into areaswith a three hundred and sixty degree cameras
pointing in all different directions and stuff. And then another group that didn't get
off the ground was UFO Data,which was the COUPOS Folks, the Center

(01:26:56):
for UFO Studies, the group thatwere started by J. J. Allen
Heine in Chicago, Mark Rodiger,rich Y tech, Leslie Keene I think
is on their board, and Alexanderwent the scientists from Ohio State. They
were going to do a similar thing, and they were working on developing software
and trying to come up with asystem. But Ron and I and Wayne

(01:27:19):
beat everybody to the punch, andso now these other efforts are kind of
falling away, and you Folk Data, much to their credit, said hey,
look we're not going to try toreinvent the wheel. You guys,
you know, I have to leadus to it, but man, if
you get some data, you've gotsome scientists here that are really interested in
looking at it. So why don'tyou be the data gathering a portion of

(01:27:42):
this and we'll be your your yourdata and analysts as your partners. And
so we partnered up with them,and also the you know, the Scientific
Coalition for UFO Studies is very interested. Robert Powell and his folks are run.
Our engineer did a presentation for thema couple of years back and got

(01:28:02):
some really good feedback and they're they'reall on board and willing and able to
help us do some paperwriting possibly.And you know, I probably should say
this here, but NASA recently aweek or two ago and say, hey,
we'd love it that the public wouldcome up with a way to possibly

(01:28:25):
help us begin our our study.And so we're going to approach NASA with
with a plan to to get theminvolved in maybe getting some of these systems
set up and manned by real scientificprofessionals, which which should be really great.
It's one thing to have a grassrootsthing with a bunch of websity kids

(01:28:45):
and folks that are that are outthere, you know, using our protocols
and using our instructions effectively, they'regoing to get some stuff. But man,
if you know, if you've gotsome physicists are doing this, or
engineers or people that are fining it, it could be really exciting. What

(01:29:09):
this is the beginning of the newmodern age of of ufology, and that's
going to be data driven, andmuch to your point, Katie, I'm
really excited to find how these systemsare blocked from gathering data and whether maybe
there's two systems in the same area, whether they're both blocked or only one

(01:29:32):
is blocked that great blocked. Seewhy was the one that was blocked or
somehow circumvented. How was that possible? It opens up all kinds of of
of just like on Skinwalker Ranch,you know, they that series on History
Channel, they launch rockets and they'rehaving trouble collecting certain data with their instruments,

(01:29:54):
and so they repeated that on BeyondSkinwalker here in Milburgh County, and
it's like it hit a wall andthe same thing. So it's almost like
no data is also data because something'sgood keeping. If you get that consistently
from point to point on on theplanet, then you're looking at something that
is that is extremely fast and howit's able to react to the presence of

(01:30:19):
technology, and and that opens upa whole new avenue of discussion. And
I'm really excited at this. I'mI'm so proud to be to be a
part of this. Uh, thiseffort we've we makes quite a bit of
that way because of the exposure onthe shows. You know, we have

(01:30:43):
a whole discord has a whole channelnow for people to share their footage and
to comment on footage. And it'sit's it's getting it's getting added to every
day. I can't even keep upwith it. And nobody's come up with
anything really good from what I've seen, I've seen well with We've had a

(01:31:04):
lot of good optical stuff, butagain it's equivocal. We haven't gotten a
kind of magnetic and gravitational anomalies thatI know we're going to happen here very
soon. That's the stuff that we'relooking for. How is that different than
made Our I thought made Our wassort of the instrument that determines a disruption

(01:31:28):
in electromagnetic field. Are you familiarwith it or not? Yeah, it's
it's it's similar to made our Whatmakes made our really interesting. What frand
frands original intention was is to havea network of these things. Yeah,
so that we could watch craft asthey fly from one made our units of

(01:31:51):
coverage to another. And that's thesame thing that we have with with the
the ufodapp system. The magnetometer thatwe have is uh. I don't think
it's quite as uh. There aresome differences to it. I think they
made our you know, may havea larger range than ours, but I'd

(01:32:14):
really need to compare the the specson it. They're very, very similar
though. Yeah, but it isa one trick pony and that you're only
looking at, you know, thatparticular thing that it's it's simple and it's
really affordable. It's a few hundredflucks and I know that's on my shopping

(01:32:35):
list. But where where can folksget like your system? Is it commercially
available or yeah, yeah, we'vewe've had it available for a couple of
years now. It's you know,we're doing he's doing updates monthly too on
the software. It's getting better andbetter and better. It's just UFO DAP

(01:32:56):
uh UFO dot acquisition project at theuphodap dot com and we have a list
of all our locations, a completebreakdown of all the gear. What we
do, that's I take a reallysmart moving. Our part is that Ron
customizes each unit for the person's setup. So if a person, let's

(01:33:20):
say, has trees in the backof their house, he doesn't need a
camera that goes all the way around. He can only he can use cameras
at just point in the directions wherehe has clear visibility. Let's say you
have you know, a narrow,narrow window of opportunity optically. Obviously,
the censor data is going to begenerated from all around you, but the

(01:33:42):
optical data if you've got trees blockingblock and you either cut down your trees
or you know, form your visualcameras to that. And the more you
can form your cameras that the lessexpensive it will become. So if you're
going to put in one hundred degreefixed camera camera, it's gonna cost you
a lot less than a pantiled zoomcamera that's you know, gets operating,

(01:34:06):
you know, like it's a securitycamera upside down basically with a better lens,
and these things can zoom into thirtysix times optical zoom. It's not
digital zoom blowing up pixels. It'syeah, real optical zoom. So in
the slew rate is amazing. Yousee, you can zip by and it'll

(01:34:26):
follow it, so, you know, and it's it's cool to watch it
when it when it acquires an object, it'll you know, the bounding box
comes up and the targeting boxes inthere and it falls around and it's pretty
cool. Are there any deployed inArizona? Yeah, yeah, but I'll
have to find out a Paradise Valley. There's one, a new one that's

(01:34:49):
going in somewhere. Is there onein the San Louis Vally out here?
Yeah, there's we have them in. There's one at the UFO watch tower,
and then there's another one going inas we speak. Jay Widener is
putting one in and quest them.That's awesome. But the other thing it's

(01:35:10):
interesting too, it's it's because we'redoing this deep learning program. It's it's
learning to be more and more discriminating. So now if it does have something
that it can identify, we havea system set up to alert you.
So if a true unknown is identified, you know, a folder is made,

(01:35:34):
the event goes into the folder.It automatically sends out up to three
emails and alerts up to three people. You immediately go to the system and
and and look at the event happeningin real time. So it's an instantaneous
alarm system that will enable people tobe alerted right away when a true unknown

(01:35:58):
shows up on your system thirty threein the morning. Yea, everybody's jumping
up with their kids. I'll beokay with me, but I can't think
of a better way to be wokenup. Yeah, you run towards it,
or have my computer on and andyou can. You can operate the

(01:36:24):
camera manually. You can pam that'sme, spin it around. You can.
All this stuff is is uh,all the optical stuff is able to
be with a Pantel Zoom cool orPTC camera. You can you can operate
it, uh, you know,on your own, even if you're on
vacation in China. Yeah. Hey, before we move on, I just

(01:36:45):
want to just say real quick onthe made our thing. Folks that have
made are are able to submit reportsto move on, ye and then move
on correlates that that that made oursubmission to any case data that we have,

(01:37:08):
so kind of to your point,Chris, that that you can you
can take some action like if somebody'shaving an event, it'll send an alert
and then we check to see ifthere's any cases, you know, being
submitted. I've worked through four casesthat had made our data part of the
investigation, where which is super cool, right because you know data you want,

(01:37:30):
you want trace evidence if you canget it. You want you know,
video, photo radar, but anykind of data, electromagnetics and you
can plug. Made our right intothe to the MSDAU and submission control.
That could be one of your sensors. So I made our gbus alongside all
these others, yeah platforms, andit's all open source. It's on Raspberry

(01:37:54):
Pie so people can put in andwith it. I wouldn't suggest it.
It's pretty pretty well done the wayit is. But you know, if
you have the ability and then knowhow and stuff, you can go in
there and and you know, tweektweak stuff. Again, we're trying to
be as open source as we can. We do not charge extra money for

(01:38:14):
gear. The only thing we chargefor that we make money on is the
software, which showed as I mentionedat where at least he should he should
try to recoup some of that timeand energy. But it's all it's all
at cost, and and we tryto work you know, the best available,
you know, package that we canput together for your particular budgets.

(01:38:39):
Make sure you check out that website, folks. I think Chanelle just had
it up. So we're starting torun out of time, Christopher, so
I hate to change it. Wenever started talking about the cattle. I
started your book, and maybe youcan start out by talking to people.
I read in the book about ancientcattle utilations, and I think you have

(01:39:00):
a picture of it too, ofsome cave drawings, and I wanted to
get your interpretation of that. Andthen the silly fresco fascinated. Yeah,
I sent those images there. Therewe go, but put the other one
on first, Katie. Okay,now you have to imagine this. This
is a fresco and on the TAsilly fresco, the TWA silly platform and

(01:39:24):
Algeria. This is about I thinkit's about eight thousand years old, this
particular image. Now you have tolook carefully at the cattle. You'll notice
that this is the front of aherd that on the wall, and the
fresco goes about twenty feet, soyou've got well over one hundred cows streaming

(01:39:47):
behind these cows, and at thevery front of the herd is you have
this little scene. And so goto the other other image. Now,
okay, now what are you lookingat here? You're looking at some some
you know what, are obvious humans, the dark characters. There's four of
them, five of them. Youhave one that seems to be in the

(01:40:11):
front is talking to the cows,he's taunting them, and then one is
holding back another one who looks likehe's running to the larger character. And
then you have a woman who's justsitting there watching this whole thing. And
then you have what appears to bea front leg line there. It's not

(01:40:33):
a back leg. Both back legsare there, so it's got to be
that right front leg that's been cutoff. And you have a person that
looks like a half a person,but I think the lower part of the
body has worn away. On theoriginal photographs, you can you can you
can see the outline of the lowerpart of the body. That's not a

(01:40:53):
half a person, but they seemto be pulling out the reproductive track of
this cow. And at the frontis something that is not human that if
it was a human doing that,it would be black, it would have
kind of a point he head,it would have clothing on, and it
would look like the other figures.But it doesn't look like the other figures.

(01:41:13):
It looks like some sort of alienghost, right figure it is operating
on the other leg. It lookslike or possibly the neck of the animal
with some sort of tool that ithas in its hand. Now, if
this isn't you know, some sortof depiction of a cattle mutilation in progress.

(01:41:36):
I don't know what it is.It doesn't conform to anything else.
I've studied as many of these frescoesas I can. There's cattle were such
an important part of their of theirlife as they are today. We still
have the newer the Dinka, theMessi, these tribes still cattle are used

(01:41:59):
as currency. Is money in there, you know, today, in their
in their culture, and that's themost important thing that they have in their
culture. And they everything that theydo is is for and by the by
the cows, and much more thaneven in India. And so to have
this kind of depiction of what appearsto be an unnatural looking creature working on

(01:42:28):
a cow and all the cows comingto check it out, and it's to
me it's the oldest known depiction ofa catimulation. Wow, And I challenge
anybody to come up with anything older. This is probably around eight thousand years
old. Five to eight thousand yearsthey're they're not sure. Beautiful artwork too.

(01:42:51):
Yeah, So I just happened tostumble on that when I was researching
the culture, because it was soin one of the periods of the culture
is called the Bovidian, you knowfrom the word bovine, the Bovidian period
of the Facili plateau. So Iwas chasing down the mushroom shamans that also

(01:43:16):
were featured in that culture. There'sanother picture in the Book of Shaman with
mushrooms growing off off in the drawingthat was done from the cow down by
Chance's wife. As many of usknow, like nineteen sixty seven with Snippy
the Horse and sat Louise Valley,that kind of spurred on what we now

(01:43:38):
know as the more current mutilations rightgoing forward from sixty seven. But as
your five books suggest, there's somuch to this phenomenon, just not cattle
mutilations, but the trickster element,to the spiritual element, to the you
know, the sasquatch or the cryptidelement, and you know, you you

(01:43:59):
open into Pandora's box. I meanthat's yeah, I really had to,
you know. I don't like thatpeople go around thinking they figured something out
and then having blinders on and andyou know, deep diving into a confirmation
biased by only accepting data into theirreality that conforms to their particular you know

(01:44:21):
bias. To me, that's intellectualdishonesty. I don't want to point any
fingers or name any names, butwe all know who the people are that
have been promoting the aliens are mulatingour catlet meme. I am the one
that's responsible for all those images thatyou showed terror before. I put was

(01:44:41):
the first one to put on theinternet a photograph of a a road sign
warning people of open range with acow and above it some kids mind saucer.
I put that online back in ninetysix, I think ninety seven,
and since then it is blossomed intothis incredible you know, worldwide cultural mean,

(01:45:08):
yeah, I was just fascinating.That was the first one to ever
ever show people that there were twoof these signs. Too bad you can
copyright that. I know it's amillion dollar idea. But I have a
question for you because for me,you know, just based on my own
experiences, it's always been a questionof how much is military involvement, how

(01:45:30):
much is unknown phenomena? And youknow, speaking with Richard Doughty and lawfulin
one time, I kind of corneredhim and I wanted to ask him a
couple of questions, and he saidthat I should foya the Agricultural Office.
And with all your research and thethousands of interviews you do, and I
know it spreads further than New Mexicoand Colorado, you must have been all
through the Midwest, right, what'syour take on the agricultural and the Air

(01:45:57):
Force's connection to all this? Well, you know, again I do I
do my boilerplated response when people askme, you know, what's what's the
bottom line? Who's doing this?There are multiple groups with varying agendas,
some divergent, some convergent, andthey're doing this for a variety of reasons.

(01:46:25):
I'm the first one to come upwith, uh, you know,
data that suggests that when rich,big ranches want to expand and they try
to buy off the little guys surroundingthem. Back in the seventies, there
were ranchers that were willing to terrorizethese ranchers into selling by doing mutilations on

(01:46:45):
their ranches. This is something thatnobody has looked into. I have three
count of three county sheriffs that havegone on the record on video and said
that a particular rancher in Coastia Countywas trying to drive ranchers into bankruptcy and
selling their land by aideen in abetting hell copter crews that were going down

(01:47:09):
and either shooting, stealing, ormulating the ranchers cattle. This was back
in seventy five. One rancher lostforty nine head of livestock, shot,
stolen, or mulated in a twoweek period. We haven't no rancher to
spend hit two hundred times in Oregonthat nobody has heard about. I'm not

(01:47:31):
supposed to talk about it. I'mnot supposed to give away any any details.
I'm chasing this weird air while installingscreaming that was just mentioned that John
Malone, who owns the most landin the United States, is trying to
buy up all these ranches out inOlburgh County. And I want to know

(01:47:53):
why. Why is John Malone buyingup all our land. Well, that's
a good thing to look into,and as far as the government goes,
you know, that's fine. Ido think there's there's a body of evidence
that suggests a government's been involved allalong, either monitoring the situation and maybe
mutilating a few cows to find outwhat the other ones are looking for,

(01:48:15):
maybe doing their own sort of followup work. They're definitely monitoring the situation.
But it's the beef industry. Godforbid, we should talk about the
largest political lobby in this country,the most powerful lobby that you never ever
hear about ever unless you're Oprah,right and you say I'm never going to
eat another Hamburger again. When you'redoing a mad cow expose on Oprah's show.

(01:48:42):
This is back in ninety nine.The next day she was sued for
two billion dollars by the beef industry. She fought it. It took her
a year. She won, butit cost her a million dollars to get
the case thrown out of court.So I eat beef of beef a dairy.
I only eat the beef that's that'sgrain fed. I don't eat industrialized

(01:49:09):
beef protein fast food hamburgers. McDonald'scould have, by their own admission,
up to one hundred animals in asingle burger. Other people have said up
to a thousand animals. Maybe youknow some processed McDonald's going to be sued
by McDonald's now any other than beef. Problem is that the beef industry is

(01:49:30):
the largest income producer in agriculture.Okay, by far, and God forbid,
we should have preon disease breakout incattle herds in our beef industry.
Preon disease is one of the mostdetrimental life forms and maladies that you can

(01:49:51):
contract. It's one hundred percent fatal. It can take up to thirty forty
years to incubate before it hits you. It may be the reason why we
have had a five thousand percent increasein dementia deaths in this country. Pres
are misfolded proteins a thousand times smallerthan the smallest virus, which was the

(01:50:13):
smallest life form. There's a problemwith calling it a life form because you
can't kill proteins. You can turnthem off from misfolding, which is a
preon disease. When all of asudden, the protein starts to fold,
and then it causes other proteins tofold. And what that does is it
happens within nerve tissue and in thebrain. And when when this cascading effect

(01:50:40):
happens, it can break up synapticpathways. You forget to breathe, You
forget that, you know, yourheart forgets, your brain forgets to tell
of your heart to beat, andeventually you die of terrible hardcore dementia symptoms.
We have had outbreaks of matcow diseasein the in the modern era.

(01:51:01):
In fact, in England in fromeighty six to ninety six they had,
you know, the whole scourge ofcases and then the hoof and mouth disease
broke out, which is the secondmost beard thing in the rancho Land.
And so when that happened, theythat's it. You know, all the
cattle in the you know, theGreat Britain, you know, Scotland,

(01:51:27):
Ireland, we haven't even touched on. I mean, this doesn't just happen
to cows, but you know,horses, sheep, goat ye. Well
yeah, yeah. There's different typesof sponge ofform and sethopathy and humans.
It's called kutzo jakov CJD and DarrenElkot's called chronic wasting disease, and sheep
it's called scrapey. Yeah. Ilove the answer that it's not as simple.

(01:51:50):
I think we all want to simple. I think the beef industry is
involved in this. I think thatthey're sampling animals in beef herds around the
world to make sure that we're notseeing any sort of outbreak of map cow
disease location period. So, andthere's there's other things that we cooperate with.
That mute map really quick. Weonly have a few minutes left.

(01:52:13):
I just wanted to show up somethingreally quickly. I mean, I mean,
if you could speak on this justfor a minute. I mean,
look at that now. Each eachone of these ms is an area of
high incidents. Those are not individualcases. Those are five or more animals.
Wow. Wow, Look in Oregon, there's very few. Right.
Well, there is some suggestion ifyou look at this map the downwind,

(01:52:38):
the downstream of where we utilize uraniumand fissionable materials, you'll notice a correlation
where the ms are. There's there'sthe ends, which are nuclear plants to
use, which are uranium minds.There seems to be a downwind and downstream
correlation that David fergus Uh saw onin seventy nine. Now, when we

(01:53:01):
had the Fukushima event in twenty eleven, we had a big plume come over
and hit northern California in Oregon,and I told David, I said,
well, if your radiation theory iscorrect, and we should see an outbreak
of cases in where we rarely havecases west of the Rockies. And sure
enough, the next year we sawthe beginning of a wave that at last

(01:53:25):
count has hit over two hundred andtwenty five animals at last count. So
there may be something to this environmentalmonitoring agenda theory that David came up with.
And also there's been suggestions that youcan actually prospect for heavy metals and
oil and gas by mulating animals,taking their tongues and looking at the residual

(01:53:50):
effects or environment has from eating thegrasses. So you know, they may
be prospecting. There may be agroup it's prospecting uh, certain areas of
the country and looking where they're goingto find, uh, you know,
viable mineral rights to go in andbuy. That's an interesting as simple,

(01:54:12):
uh the subject it is, itis head achingly complex. It is complex,
and the more you were in,the more complex it gets. Yeah,
and if you have any sort ofinteresting subject at all, there's only
one book that even begins to coverany of it. And of course it's

(01:54:33):
buy book Stalking the Heart right herewhen I finished. Yeah, it's interesting
interview that I just did. Theytalked about the School of Minds being on
these ranches, you know, fiveseparate times digging for different materials and that.
So the fact that you just mentionedthat is kind of mind blowing to

(01:54:53):
me. It's sooner and I youknow, gosh, I wish we had
a whole another couple hours with you, Chris. It's it's been a fantastic
I can always come back with Iwould love for you. Okay, I
have so many other questions from thebooks. What once you get get out
of out of out of the doghouse? For my ptificating earlier now very interested

(01:55:20):
ignorance and stupidity really did make mescratch hitch in places I can't find where
to scratch. So are you goingto be speaking anywhere? Or where can
people find your work? You havea window, They don't. They don't
invite me to speak, But Ithink I rarely get invited out to speak.

(01:55:40):
You would think with UFODAP just absolutelytearing up the field right now behind
the scenes, that every UFO conferencewould want to want to find out more
about it. But I haven't talkedabout you for Depp since well, I
don't know. I mentioned it acouple of commerces that I've done in the

(01:56:03):
last couple three years, but noone's beating down my ringing my phone and
beating down my door to get meto well. That's yeah, it's a
great idea. You can go right. You could go to our Strange planet
dot com learn more about Chris andhis work and check out you can get

(01:56:23):
all his books at Amazon. SoI hope you purchase some of his books,
all of his books. Follow Katieand get all five because they're and
Chris. I appreciate having you on. Thank you Tera, thank you Shane,
thank you Chanelle, and thank youto Bill Skywatcher and Kadrra. Until
next Tuesday night, I hope you'llall have a fantastic rest of your week.

(01:56:45):
Keep looking up, keep reporting thingsto move on if you see them,
and really do check out Christopher O'Brien'syou Know New Technologies. I think
that's an important piece of the poson. I'm super excited that all these high
strangest areas are doing scientific work becauseI think you're right. It's it's it's
all of that combined where we're goingto find these answers. And Chris is
on the front line of that andhas been for a long time. And

(01:57:08):
I appreciate your work more than you'llever know. So thanks so much,
and have a good week, everybody. Yeah, thanks, that's right.
Thank you.