Heidi Hollis

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Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Government's denying, militaries denying, eventhe mainstream media denies it. But they
are here, and they've been herefor a very long time. The Mutual
UFO Network has been on the fucklines, uncovering the truth since nineteen sixty
nine, and now we're sharing thattruth with you. Welcome, move far.

(00:33):
What's up with your hosts Katie Paige, Shane Heard and Tara Guy Juice
exclusively on the KGRA Digital Broadcasting Networkwondering What's Up? Sorrow Week? What's

(00:58):
up Everybody? And it is tonight and you are listening to mouf on
What's Up Radio, the show thatsays discovery starts with curiosity, and curiosity
starts with Moufon. Brought to youby KGRADB dot Com. As always,
we are endorsed by moufon the MutualUFO Network, always asking that all important

(01:18):
question are we alone in the universe? I am your host, Katie Page,
the Colorado Moufon State Director, andwe have one of my good girlfriends
on tonight, Heidi Hollis. Heidi. You know she is going to be
talking about shadow people and hat Man, which she coined the terms for,
and she's going to talk about howthis phenomena exposes a particular bridge between euphology,

(01:42):
the paranormal, and the spiritual world, and I am so anxious and
excited to finally have her as aguest on our show. We got to
hang out there in Oregon and let'ssee what was at the mcmanville UFO fest
a couple years ago. And thenwe got to hang out in Boulder just
I don't know, maybe or fivemonths ago. I'll have to ask her
when that was. Time is justa big blur for me. But anyway,

(02:05):
I have a few things I wantto kind kind of announce. I
wanted you guys to save the date. The move On Symposium has announced their
dates. It will be in theDallas Fort Worth, Texas area in Irving,
Texas July eleventh through fourteenth, Somark out those dates in your calendar
and make plans to attend. Thatshould be a great conference. Also,
this coming Gosh is coming up sofast. It is coming Saturday. I'll

(02:28):
be on the East coast in Virginiain Maryland. I'm flying into Virginia and
going to Maryland for the Mysteries ofSpace and Sky. So that's going to
be a great event. Hope tosee you guys, if you're in that
area, I'd love to see youout there for that. And then our
own Shane heard on the twenty eighthof October, right before Halloween, will
be speaking for Phoenix move on.And unfortunately Shane is sick tonight, so

(02:50):
he will not be with us.Shane will miss you and we hope you
get better. But let's bring inTara die Ulis. You can see Tara
right here at Skytour live stream withmy D'Antonio right here on KG. All
right, Tara, you are onmute. How are you doing and what's
up? What's up? Katie?Welcome everybody. Good to see you all.
Yes, all, thank you guysfor being here and listening. Tonight

(03:13):
should be a great show kind ofHALLOWEENI and let's bring this gap between hat
Man, Shadow Man, UFO's paranormal. I think they're all connected in some
sort of way. Don't you takethings so too, Tara. It's to
me, it's all about energy andthat's all connected, no matter what it's
we're talking about. So yes,it's all connected. I wish I knew
what it meant, though, Iknow maybe our guests will have some answers

(03:37):
to that, But where do youhave to kick us off tonight? Well,
today's Halloween inspired meme is but asinspired by our guests. It's The
Outlanders by our guest Heidi Hollis,And so it shows the doorway at Bigfoot's
house where trigger treats are laying onthe ground after falling over dead so cross,

(03:57):
their tongues are hanging out and Bigfoot'swife is leaning out the door with
a surprise look on her face.And while he's standing there on one leg
with the other foot legs stuck outin front of him, Bigfoot says what
they said, something like smell myfeet. So I happily obliged. Okay,
So that was a long story forthis, but it is hilarious.

(04:18):
It's so cute. I love likethe little bugs flying around in the green
stad and it's just you know,I went to her it's the Outlanders comic.
I think we have a banner forthat, but I encourage all of
our listeners to check out her artworkthere because it is hilarious. Oh yeah,
this tell us about this, Tara, Well, this is I in

(04:40):
spirts and Shane was gone. It'sHidie and Katie and myself. You know
we're a little spacey, so it'sthe Space Girls tonight. So hang on
everyone, We're in for a funtime, I think. I think,
so fun interesting time. Do youhave any products? Well, so I
do. Actually found on Amazon ourguest book, you know, this is

(05:01):
The hat Man. It's the it'sthe true story of evil encounters. It's
a book by today's guest, HeidiHollis, and I can't wait to talk
to her about it. But inspiredby her book is this Halloween costume that
can also be found on Amazon.Oh. They're full body suits that instantly
transform anyone into a shadow being.These can be found for adults or children,

(05:25):
and you can get as scary asyou like. Ah, that's pretty
creepy. I mean, oh mygosh, the pranks. Oh please don't
do it. I know. Handscan slip out of the suit. And
this constant costume features sharp fingers andglowing eyes. And if you want to
push it further, you can findyourself a trench coat, you know,

(05:47):
or perhaps a dramatic cape at atop hat or a fedora. And what
you have is shir to frighten anyone, especially if they read this book and
you're own hat Man and so arewe going to dress up for Halloween?
I know we have a special guestcoming in on Halloween and it falls on
a Tuesday night. You know,it's when Halloween falls on a weeknight.

(06:11):
You know, it's always Friday Saturdaynight. So Halloween on a Tuesday night
this week, and we have DavidMorehouse is going to be our guest Halloween
Night. But I'm thinking maybe weshould dress up. And I'm thinking I
would like kind of that hat man, I dmy, have you a little
pop hat or something put on?That'll be fun great. I just have
one recommendation. If you do thatsuit, cover your hair up before you

(06:33):
put the zipper on, because Ido speak from experience on that. So
yeah, all of that, thebook, costumes, and clothes, everything
can be found on Amazon, ofcourse. And lastly, remember to stay
hydrated, especially if you're going out. You know, fuel up is the
only product that contains an advanced alVera formula, So visit fuel up dot

(06:57):
gg's slash move on for more information. And so Katie Shane's not here,
So what do you got for ustoday? Well? I have a really
short case of the week, butit's actually really compelling and Saturday we had
an awesome guest fly in to speakto Colorado. Move on, Sam Moronto.
We've had him as a customer showbefore. I think he's the state

(07:18):
director for Illinois and he was sharingwith all of us the Tinley Park mass
sighting. So his specialty is likemass sightings, right, and we all
benefited from his so many years ofresearch. And I mean he did the
you know, the O'Hare Airport masssighting and this, yeah, and these

(07:41):
lights. So I have an interestingcase and I acted, Hi, Kathleen,
thanks being here. So I sentthis case to him just an email
today and I can't wait to gethis feedback on it as well. But
it's it's a short little case asfar as the description goes. Its case
one three four three one three Categoryone case. Can I tell you,
I don't know a lot of theseCategory one cases are pretty compelling to me,

(08:03):
so I don't always just assume becauseit's a CAT one case, which
is kind of you know, thehigher up they go. We have CAT
one, Cat two, and CATthree which stands for category category threes.
Are you know your close encounters?You know, really good evidence cat twos,
you have good video photograph advidence andsometimes people overlook these category ones is

(08:24):
insignificant, but they're not. Someof my favorite cases have been categorized as
category ones. This took place Septembertwenty seventh, twenty twenty three, at
nine thirty six pm. It's fromAbbotsford, Georgia, and basically the witness
just stayed and I love this.I have a good video. That was
a whole description. I have agood video. Okay, sure, let's

(08:48):
see it. What's closed as aunknown. So I'm going to show you
first the original video and listen tothis little kid. And I think this
kind of goes hand in hand withour guests tonight as well, Heidi Hollis.
So let's listen to this cute littlekid here in this video. So
if we can roll the original that, I don't know what goes on?
More angels the angels fashion see canI say it? The w s flapping

(09:13):
all look, it's the angel,it's angel's mom, it's angels DC,
that's bread. Those are angels mom. Isn't that the cutest? So I

(09:43):
took and I slowed down the videoand I got it because it kind of
starts out a little pixelated, soI cut that pixelated part off, went
to where it gets really crisp andclear. I zoomed it in and I
slowed it down, so channel,if you could please run that next slowed
down video, it's pretty cool.I added music to it. I don't

(10:56):
know what happened to the music disappearedit did. That's strange. What do
you think of that? I mean, they're moving in unison together. Yeah,
it seems like they're attached or connectedwith each other, but their shape
kind of changes, but they're almostsaying equal distance apart or you know,
it's triangular. Very interesting. Didyou see the two little things fly through

(11:20):
it? Now? Those kids?The birds or bugs? Perhaps because when
you're looking at it at full speed, it's pretty fast. Hair's one screenshot
I captured, and then I capturedanother one where it's you know, isn't
that it's almost mylar by balloon ish, But they're too there seem too structured
for that, if that makes senseright, And the way they stay in

(11:43):
unison together, you would think themarlar balloons would be floating on the wind.
Kind OF's differently and they just kindof morph and unison. So,
like I said, I sent thisto Sam Moronto, who is on our
video and photo team. I foundthe more I look at this, like
so many cases, the more Islowed it down, I really took a
close look. I'm like, waita minute, this is not acting like

(12:05):
you know, Hey, thanks,how's it going going good? Hi?
Raymon? Thanks for being here.Anyway, So the more I watch it,
the more compelled I was, andI'm like, no, this this
is acting very strange. So kindof a cool case, cool video.
Yeah, yeah, did you takeit get into the Mars archives? Yeah?

(12:26):
I did actually, so so youknow, move on asks, you
know, are we alone in theuniverse? Right? Well, even during
the recent congressional hearings, biologics werebrought up when discussing crash retrievals, non
human intelligences, and unexplained phenomena.And so now you can show those first
two pictures. So what would youdo if you saw biologic, a life

(12:48):
form that was not considered the norm? Would you be able to describe it
or even draw a picture of it? Right? So for today I wanted
to do something kind of fun.I went into a few cases case files
and pulled out eyewitnessed sketches of humanoidbiological entities and so there you go,
Shanell, thank you. This.So this creature was seen in October of

(13:11):
nineteen sixty three, and it's justkind of a basic sketch. The next
one is based on a sighting fromOctober two thousand and three in San Luis
Obispo, California, and noticed thelarge black eyes, the ear holes,
and even a vein on its head. This had comes from an August nineteen

(13:31):
ninety four case. Kala has lipsand stuff. Here you see the entire
body of that case. The nextone it has it said, it has
tight skin, prominent elbows and kneesloll scary. It has suction cups on
its fingertips. It has made rectianfingertips. Interesting. So the next one,

(13:52):
this sketch involved a case with thepolice officer in Canoa, Oklahoma.
I hope, I said that right. This was some from September of nineteen
ninety two. And yeah, it'slike the big dark eyes, but they're
almost like human eyes inside of thatkind of strange. This craft and this
occupants were seen in Happy Camp,California. The witnesses were about sixty feet

(14:16):
away and they saw this land andwere able to one was able to sketch
what they saw. And there's likean egg in this person and they say
three occupants emerged from the egg.Yeah. Interesting. That reminds me a
little bit of scorl isn't it strange? Yes? Yes, And here's another
drawing of the situation. It's abeautiful drawing and it almost puts you right

(14:37):
there in the moment. But theywere in a secluded campground and this is
what they saw. Great artist,I know, it's really cool to see
some of these cases, all ofthe sketches, regardless of what the quality
is, it gives you some insightinto what they saw. So here's a
triangular craft that was hovering over theground. Close to the ground. The

(14:58):
door endow materialized and in the doorwaywas a person and in the window was
a bigfoot. Oh see, therewe go. I knew it. Here
is the humanoid being in the hairycreature that was seen in that triangular craft.
So, you know, kind ofNordic looking, you know, humanoid,
very humanish looking. You know,it's very strange. So this eight

(15:22):
foot tall hairy creature hugging, hugginga small Let me start this over.
This eight foot tall hairy creature wasseen hugging a smaller one while he was
standing next to a barbed wire fencein Pensacola, Florida, and he's standing
on, you know, just standingthere. This is a well known image
from the Barney and Betty Hill casefrom September of nineteen sixty one, and

(15:43):
there are lots of case files inthe Mars about this. There were humanoids
wearing military uniforms that were seen andit looks like there're by some control panels
there. Very interesting. Here isthe sketch made by Barney Hill showing fish
in the windows. He was ableto identify where the leader and others were
at the control panel and even saidthat one of the figures was grinning.

(16:08):
Oh interesting, that is interesting.Here in the window the body appeared black
or dark gray against the lights,so more of a silhouette. And I
think we saw one of the caseslike that. What is that a shadow
figure? This image appeared in theAthens, Georgia newspapers based on a local
sighting and it depicts a being froma UFO and this was drawn by an

(16:32):
art student. Here is another artistimpression of a creature seen in Knox,
Indiana, from November nineteen eighty eight. And it should be noted that this
case was deemed a hoax. Okay, I was gonna say he has four
feet, you know, it's justkind of yeah, you could just describe
that. So the next note hisT shirt says, I'm sorry, I'm

(16:56):
hoaxing. What I liked about thissketch was that it looks to me like
an astronaut standing in a tic tac. Right, it's Sarah a big Marshall
the stake with Marshal and man.It was said to have a transparent front
on it. This this yeah,this image came from the International UFO Reporter

(17:18):
Winter nineteen ninety five issue. Itshows a robot and a humanoid and don't
they both look similar? The robotwith silver, the humanoids was white,
and both in suits with hoods andgloves. And it's kind of interesting,
fascinating. It seems to me likein the sixties and the seventies, and
maybe because of popular culture, wehave a lot of these eties and like

(17:41):
you know, they have like divingsuits, black blueter with the belts and
the emblems and that, you know, I find that interesting and shifts as
time goes on. What do youthink that was our government first learning about
these suits, and first you know, practicing with them. And now they've
got it down pat you know,because we've had guests that thinks some of

(18:02):
this stuff is from our government.You know, we can to keep an
open eyes. This is from Octobernineteen fifty two out of Salem, Oregon,
and this is called the Oregon creature, and it was described as wearing
headgear similar to a chic in thedesert. Its eyes were large, two
to three inches in diameter, andthey glowed like filaments in an old electric

(18:22):
light bulb. And they actually andthey're also described as they appeared to be
headlights or reflectors. The suit materialgave the impression of heavy satin or a
fine metal mesh, and the entiresuit was white except for a tiny clothing
on the jacket. So this nextone that we're showing now is a detailed
drawing of an alien rod. I'msorry to interrupt, but I'm like this

(18:47):
one that has a solver rod likeaol. That's interesting. Okay. It
appeared in a man's bedroom window,and it was three to four feet tall
and was holding that silver rod andhe said it looked like it was covered
in thin boxes, and he speculatedthey were perhaps shields. So I wonder
what the silver rods for, Katie, I don't. Yeah, yeah,

(19:08):
it's kind of that shield reminds meof the Albert County et, you know,
with the helmet and the shield andthe Oh interesting, it's it's really
interesting. So the next one,here are some ebes, which are extraterrestrial
entities and their spaceships, sighting fromin October November nineteen ninety five in Long

(19:29):
Island, New York. This wasseen through a living room window from a
distance of approximately seventy five yards.And then the next picture shows the zoomed
out image of that. So that'swhat he saw through the window. Yeah.
Good artists, I know, Iknow, so you know. And
Katie. So the next the lastone, there's my what do you think

(19:53):
about all that? Katie? Didyou say you did that one? That
one's yours? No, I didn'tdo that. I don et r too.
I've been working on it. Yeah, you can see some around over
my shoulder here, but there theirwork in progress right now. So but
no, I think somebody somewhere shoulddo like like you just did, gather
a lot of these and I knowpeople have done your Preston Denn. It's

(20:17):
really good Ajo Box Presidon Denn.It's really good at like collecting a lot
of these different cases and putting samewith Michael schrat how he illustrates his phenomenal
kind of forgotten cases. But tohave what did you just love? Hi,
Eric, Happy Tuesday? I wouldlove to have like a poster of
just a different means. So Ithought of it first. No, I

(20:40):
had already thought of it, Ijust didn't mention it. All right,
you're really gonna make the poster ofall the et beans. I think there
are enough files that anybody can dothis. There are enough varieties that anybody
with interest in this UFO, paranormalanything, there's a lot of stuff to
research and studies. So it'd befun for anybody. And and if you

(21:03):
have a design you're being drawn toanything, I say, go for it
and do it because we we allcan't do it, and so share what
you're doing with everyone. And youknow, sure, now I find that
an interesting just an interesting thought ingeneral, is I know we have our
stereotypical you know, short grays,tall grays, you know, the Nordics,

(21:23):
the Draco's, the Reptilians, theant people, and on and on.
But when you look at a varietyof sketches like this, they're just
all so uniquely just slightly have theirown little twist or spin on them.
And I'm wondering where that comes from. Are we are we manifesting or part
of the equation? I guess,And you know, that's the question I

(21:45):
always have, because there's just allthese slight differences, and for the life
of me, that's something I've beenjust wanting to do for so long,
is you know, find I mean, the two that I came across in
Elburg County are so similar and wedidn't know each other, and they're really
close, but you know, tofind ones that match are like, okay,
there's a link, you know whatI'm saying. Yes, Yes,

(22:07):
to have a database of that thatjust it just has the images but brief
subject of what it is and thenwhere, when and maybe even the time.
You know, then that's how youstart seeing the patterns and stuff.
But they're just fun. It's justyou know, it just just makes me
drive to want to read more.So glad you enjoyed that. Yeah,
I really thought that that probably tooka lot of time and work, so

(22:29):
thank you for doing that, Terra. We all benefit from that to see
all those awesome So without Shane's haveyou heard we miss you, Shane?
You feel better? I know,darn it, you'll feel better. So
did you watch those movies yet?I haven't had it. I've been so
busy, but I think they're goodfor Halloween weeks. So I've decided I
went to save them and that weekendbefore Halloween, I'm going to do a

(22:51):
horror mash. I think after Halloweenwe will prieve you some of these movies
on who, Netflix and whatnot.But I think it's time to bring in
our guests. What do you think, Oh, I think that'd be great.
I'm really excited to meet her andtalk to her. He has a
pretty lengthy bio, but it's worthreading, so I'm going to read it.
So here we go. So HeidilHeidi Hollis O t RL is known

(23:15):
for having discovered, name to findand trademark two other worldly realities, shadow
People and hat Man. These phenomenaexplore a particular bridge between eupology, the
paranormal, and the spirit world thatHollis has been speaking in every format for
decades now. With her first book, Hollis embarked on a unique journey to
find answers that led her to theliterally to literally inform the world, as

(23:41):
told in The Secret War, atrue story about a real alien war and
Shadow People. Hollis has also writtenseveral other chart topping books on a variety
of phenomenon touching on cryptozoology, toholy encounters like The Hat Man, Jesus
Is No Joke, Picture Prayers,and others. Hollis is the host of

(24:03):
Dark Becomes Light on the number oneiHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast
Network. Heidi Hollis has been featuredglobally on various television and radio programs like
Ancient Aliens, The Proof Is OutThere, Strange Evidence Beyond Belief with George
Nori, The Unexplained Files, MysteryHunters, and the co host on the

(24:26):
CW for Mysteries Decoded. She isalso an occupational therapist, treating clients with
psychological, cognitive, learning and physicalchallenges to reach her fullest potential, which
is awesome. Thank you for doingthat, Heidi. Her popular paranormal webcomic
The Outlanders That Like You Saw atthe top of the show. Here can

(24:47):
be enjoyed here, which is onInstagram dot com The Outlanders Comic. She
has received thousands of stories and sharesome of her and share some in her
blog, The hat Man Letters.So she also has a blog where people
can share their hat Man and shadowMan encounters right here, The hat Man
Letter. So please welcome to theshow, Heidi Hollis, Hi, friend,

(25:11):
it's so good to see you.Katie. It's nice to meet you
there. Terra, It's awesome.Feel great to have you on the show.
It truly is. And I knowyou know, when we were hanging
out paling around together, we oftendiscuss, like, you know, you
kind of live in this spiritual paranormalworld of cryptozoology and hat Man and shadow
Figure, how does that bridge thegap into eupology? You know? So

(25:33):
I would kind of like to startoff by asking you have you had a
UFO sighting encounter or any kind ofconnection into the UFO world, so to
speak, And if so, whatwas that? Girlfriend? My goodness,
I started there. I wanted everybodyto hear. I had a UFO group

(25:55):
for fifteen years, you know,and it's like it met at the local
library. I had anywhere from fiftyto one hundred people every meeting. Moufon
wanted me to make it a chapter, but at the time I wasn't.
I didn't want to go that routebecause they weren't that big into experiencers,
you know, and also the feesand you know, I had, you

(26:18):
know, college kids and stuff.They didn't they didn't want to do that.
So I'm like, you know,let's keep it real as we are,
you know. So it was calledUFO to you dot com, so
the number two LETTERU dot com andmy goodness, it's still up. And
I just always started from there.And I've always said the UFO shadow people,

(26:41):
Enhampman phenomenon always were connected. Itell you, telling me a story
about you and your sister and anexperience you guys had. Do you want
to share that? And where whereare you located when you started this UFO
group? Where were a lot ofthese sightings from? Which state wisconsinsconsin.
It's a pretty active state, veryvery active state. Yeah, and gosh,

(27:06):
that experience you're talking about, mylovely robotic toy clown thing, that
is that where we're going? Yeah, Yeah, that's a crazy experience.
So I was a kid, andI must have been about I don't know,
maybe six years old, and mysister is probably four years old,
and my mother sent us up togo get my brother for dinner. And

(27:29):
so we're like, you know,close in age, we're like racing against
each other who could get to hisroom first. So we go to the
second floor when out of his bedroomcomes a robotic toy clown and we didn't
have anything remote control back then,and we're just like, oh cool,
you know, and we're like,let's get closer to this, and my
sister pushes past past me. She'sa tiny little bully and shows me to

(27:49):
decide to get closer to the toyclown, and you know, it came
out of his room, did aninety degree angle turn, you know,
right at us, and when Itell you, this, feeling of terror
hit us, like I don't knowwhat. We did not get closer.
There was probably two three feet fromit, and we both felt it was

(28:11):
draining us where we were moving inslow motion, not that it seemed in
slow motion. We were moving inslow motion. And so she somehow she's
quick man. She pushed past meto get ahead of me to leave the
situation. I'm like, oh,no, you know, and I go

(28:32):
to run the other way to getto the stairs, to run down the
stairs. I got to the topof the stairs and I watched my sister
tumble down the stairs as she lostconsciousness in slow motion, and me,
I lost consciousness at the top ofthe stairs. That's how quick she was.
She got to the middle of thestairs before she passed out. And

(28:55):
the weirdest thing I remember faintly watchingmy mother pick up my limp sister at
the bottom of the stairs and puther on the couch. I woke up
at the top of the stairs lookingaround for that horrid little robotic toy clown
and couldn't find it, and wejust never spoke of it. Now it
gets crazy because I don't know.It's almost as if it didn't happen.

(29:21):
Ten years later, I'm sixteen,the memory comes right back to me and
I'm like, hey, my sistersitting in the middle of the kitchen doing
her homework. I'm like, doyou remember where kids in that robotic toy
clown came actress? She goes whatshe starts crying. I thought that was
a nightmare. I'm like, oh, no, you draw what you saw,
and I'll draw what I saw,and we both drew the same darn

(29:44):
thing. This horrid little creature.It was like a ball, a bigger
ball sitting a small ball sitting ona bigger ball, and its hands were
just connected to its belly, andthese feet just kept coming forward weird,
and it should have wobbled, right, it should have wobbled, but it
wasn't touching the ground. My sisterand I are like, I don't think

(30:07):
it was touching the ground. Itwas levitating, coming straight at us.
And of course it came out ofmy brother's room. We never saw it
before. We never saw it again, so I asked him, did you
have something like that? It's like, you know, he was like,
eighteen, Why would I have atoy clown? Okay, you know,
And it was the most horrid scarything I've ever seen. And it wasn't

(30:33):
until I saw the old Communion movie. So I don't know how long later
that I saw there was a robotictoy clown in the freaking movie, and
I was like, my god,you know, and i'd heard, you
know, of course, that alienswould put out a toy to try to
lure a child. You know,and so I felt like we avoided it

(30:57):
because she got away. I wokeup in the exact same spot and position,
and I lived in a haunted house, right, and my sister and
I were like, that wasn't thedemonic crap we had going on. This
is something else, but we justdidn't know what. I never felt in

(31:17):
my whole life. Still, Idon't feel like I've been abducted. I
have seen alien beings. They havetried, but I got another good story
for you about that. But youknow, it's like people think I'm in
the paranormal. No, people tryto put me in the paranormal because the
shadow people hat man, but thosebeings are related directly to abducting alien beings.

(31:41):
I've never been quote ghost hunter.I've been a UFO person. So
Katie gave me the hook opper.Already. Let me speak up, muffan,
What is this? This is thebeginning for people to understand these connections,
because you know, like soone,any of us know, through the
decades, we like to put thingsin boxes. We like to try and

(32:04):
make sense of things. And hey, that that encounter you had. I
mean, first of all, thisis Halloween time, right, I mean
clowns. Forget about it. Thatis terrifying, peepy, It's horrible.
It was horrible, horrifye it wasno, absolutely no I have you know.
Tell me then, So you ranthis group for how many years?

(32:25):
The fifteen years? Wow? Years? Yeah, it's not my beginning.
I've been out there for a longtime, you know, talking about this.
I have always said, alien,alien, Alien. I've seen so
many UFOs, I've lost count.I've seen various beings. I've lost count
of the different types. And it'slike, but you know, again,

(32:47):
I don't fall into that category ofI was abducted, taken. So it's
like I feel like a little bitlike thrown out of the the box.
It's like, oh, that's justtoo weird. And that's how it was
for me introducing to phenomena nobody hadever heard of before. So there I
was again out of the box,you know, and people are like,

(33:08):
that's not a real phenomenon, youknow, but you know, I had
to speak my truth. It's like, I'm a therapist. I'm not nuts,
you know. It's I'd like totalk about these things as I do
any other topic, casual, fullof flaws and humorous because all I wanted
to do growing up is be acomic strip artist, that's all. And

(33:30):
you're a great one. Thank you. Sharing the outlanders that is all I
ever wanted to do, and I'ma goofball because of it. So well,
I think you bring up so manyimportant things. So Heidi, I
mean speaking your truth. I meanI think you know that's all we can
do is speak our truth, andpeople may judge us and put us wherever

(33:52):
they want to put us. Atthe end of the day, that's all
we each individually have the power todo. And I want to commend you
and thing thank you for bringing HiJennifer. I want to commend you and
thank you for bringing you know,shadow Man, hat Man and these phenomenon
And quite frankly, when you talkedabout cryptozoology and some of these more high
strangeness type phenomenon, you are puttingyourself out there for ridicule and judgment and

(34:16):
laughter and people, you know,putting all sorts of these different labels on
there. But look where it's comethrough these decades. I mean you started
back in this one in the earlynineties, Heidi. It was middle nineties.
No, I was looking into it. They'll before. Yeah, and
now this is a well known phenomenonand so many people around the world have

(34:39):
experienced what your you have experienced,so and thank you for to speaking your
truth. I mean that's all wecan do. I appreciate it. You
know. It's like I had awebsite before a lot of people had a
website. So it was always inthe top like fifty websites in the world
for UFOs. Imagine that, well, the top fifty because they used to

(35:00):
vote on them, you know.And one of my good friends, she
was a graphic artist, did coolstuff, you know. I had a
ball with it and always answering,always updating the website weekly and just so
active in it. And so italways shocks me when people are like surprised,
you know about U folks, whatyou know, have you been?

(35:25):
It's like, well, no,not just you. I mean it's a
lot of folks, a lot offolks. I get it a lot.
And I'm like that was where Iwas. I was my comfort zone,
you know. So yeah, andit's still I enjoy a lot more than
demons and shadow people's stuff. Youknow. It's it's just, uh,

(35:45):
I don't know, you know,my dad little did I know his background,
but you know, he used totry to get me to change my
pen name. You make a penname for my books and stuff like,
you know, you don't have touse your full name. And I'm like,
I'm like, well, Dad,you don't have any sons. I

(36:06):
plan on keeping this name and abusingit to its fullest. So and Heidi
Holli sounds kind of cool. SoI'm gonna stick with it and I get
it out. In this world,you know, people get judged, and
I have a lot of people kindof you know, use different names to
say who they are. But I'mjust like, throw myself out there,
judge as you will. And youknow that's just too bad. You know,

(36:30):
what are you gonna do? Laugh, I'll laugh before you do,
you know. So it's like,just be who you are and breaking in
a whole two phenomena shadow people andhat Man boy being a black woman on
top of it all, being awoman first of all, that's the harder
part. Oh my gosh. Theysure don't like that though. We make

(36:52):
up most of the audience that's listeningto this, that's watching these shows.
But gosh, that name might Houseis just too fluffy for somebody that discovered
demons and the devil. Oh,well, too bad. I don't know.
Yeah, Ahard, Well, that'sjust the issues you're dealing with are
very frightening. And you know,I've started your book on the hat Man

(37:15):
and you talked about growing up ina haunted house. But what what has
struck me from the beginning is yoursense of humor and how you're able to
look at the other side of it. So you're dealing with these issues that
are really frightening, but they becomea norm for you. And is that

(37:36):
you know, you grew up ina haunted house and you've experienced it,
where a lot of us haven't.You know, we hear this, we're
like, oh my gosh, butthings become normalized. And because they're normalized,
does that help you with your humorbecause you have to deal with it
one way or the other. AndI think it's such a great example of

(37:58):
your cartoons and your son how theirreal life issues that they're experiencing, and
we all could learn from it.So yeah, I appreciate that. It's
like a lot of people, youknow, I've seen look at the cover
of that book and say, oh, no way am I reading that?
That looks so scary, and I'mlike, if you know me well enough,

(38:22):
I have tons of humor in there, because it's a hard pill to
swallow. I don't I know howto clear a room with terror, but
I don't want to do that.I want people to stick around and ask
interesting questions, be comfortable. Idon't want them to run in fear.
I don't want to sit here witha flashlight under my chin talking about this

(38:44):
stuff, you know. I wantto talk about it as I would anything
else. And I'm trying to getpeople comfortable with themselves and what they're experiencing
so they could roll over in bedand tell their spouse what they experience instead
of contacting me on the other sideof the planet. You know, that's
a seat. That's a shame.Uh, you know what we're doing something

(39:04):
wrong. We should be further alonghour after all this time. So I'm
trying to get people to just belike, well, if that crazy woman
you know talk about this, she'sa therapist, what you know, It's
like yeah, and I'm okay andmy job's secure, you know. So,
So, Heidi, when was yourfirst experience with a shadow man or

(39:29):
a hat man and can you sharethat with us. Yeah, I was
in college and I was broad daylight. I was walking with a friend of
mine through a park and she's justchat chat chatting, carrying on, and
I caught something in the corner ofmy eye and I was like, the
heck did I see that? Youknow? And I saw it jump behind

(39:51):
a bush, go to a tree, and a few good times I saw
really clear, and I was like, I've walked a little bit faster to
closer to her, though it's broaddaylight. We reach our destination, turned
back, and the darn thing followedus on the way back. And by
that time I was just beside myselfand I'm like I grabbed a piece of
paper and I said, look,I don't know what I just saw following

(40:15):
us, but I saw this thing. And I drew what I call the
head and shoulder shadow Being, whichis on my website. And I'm thinking
my friend's gonna look at it andstart cracking up, but instead she looks
at it and goes, I'm notthat thing again. It was normalized for
her. It was normalized for her, and I was like, she shows

(40:37):
her dad, He goes, ohgreat, is that thing back. I'm
like, oh, my gosh.You know, I grew up in a
haunted house. I knew what ghostswere, I knew what ghosts felt like.
This thing was evil. It's like, holy crap. And I was
staying there at her house and Ihad to grab something upstairs where my room

(41:00):
was. This immediately after getting thisconfirmation from her and her dad, and
I go up there. Didn't haveto turn the lights on bright still right
outside, grab what I needed,turned around to leave the room, and
that thing, I get chills everytime I think about it was blocking my
way out. You and I justthat sense of fear. I mean,

(41:28):
I just don't even know how toexplain, like you feel you're going to
die. And I knew it's weirdto say, but in the presence of
these things, you could feel whatit wants to do to you. And
it wanted to kill me. AndI knew if I ran, it was
going to get me. I knewif I collapsed, it was going to
get me. I knew if Iswung at it it was going to cause

(41:51):
harm. And something I felt likejust kind of guided me, like just
move slowly and steadily, saying aprayer, and I just kind of closed
my eyes and walked through it becauseI couldn't have stood there any longer,
you know. Oh man, Iit was bad. By the time I

(42:15):
got to the top of the stairs, my legs were jelly and I just
kind of fumbled down the stairs andmy friend opened the door, like,
what was that? What are youfollow down stairs? For I had no
air in my lungs. I waslike, it's upstairs, you know.
And I did not know it then, but that was the beginning of it
transferring onto me. But I didn'trecognize it because I started seeing another drawing.

(42:40):
It's on my website, our ShadowSpiders the Nightmares nightly and but I
was like, what's going on withme? I waking up in the middle
of the night. First I'm dreamingof a spider, right, and then
I feel a giant, man eatingsized spider drop on my bed and with

(43:02):
every step it's moving my blankets andI opened my eyes to see it's there.
So I'm jumping out of the bedlooking for a broom, a shoe,
anything to kill it. And sometimesit be thousands of little ones.
So and this just wouldn't stop.I'm like, what is this? But

(43:22):
I didn't know it was connected tothe big thing I saw. So that
was a big guess. So thespider things are connected to the bigger thing
that was following you in the parkand college. And yeah, what did
that look like? Can you describeit? The thing in the point you
saw in the park. Sure itwas if you can imagine, like almost

(43:45):
ten foot tall, kind of lookinglike a man with its head directly connected
to its shoulders, with slanted,red glowing eyes but no feet. I
saw that Halloween. I did notknow people are using Halloween cost That's I
don't do it. That's scary.It's frightening, like horrifying. It's a

(44:10):
demon and it's an active demon.You know, it's not like you know
every once in a while, sothe experiences it, it sees you.
Okay, it's horrifying. So yeah, so it kind of looks like that.
But let me be clear that shadowpeople were never people. I call
them shadow people just because I wastired of explaining to my friends. They

(44:34):
shadowy things, you know, youknow, it kind of shape shifted,
and they shape shift so they couldbecome spiders, they could become a streak,
they could become a cloudy I sawone. Oh boy, it makes
me mad. I can't stand thesealien things. Okay, some of them
I can always feel when they're aroundme. Right, And and by the

(44:57):
way, I don't use any fluffyterms like I found so many of my
friends that went into these fields,they suddenly used all these fluffy terms for
things. And I'm like, dude, it was an alien I don't know
what the heck. Instead of likeeclectically speaking, it did this and I
felt a flutter. No, no, I was sleeping. I could feel

(45:19):
the presence of this thing, likeI feel like something would alert me in
the room. Something's in here.And I opened my eyes. Ever you
ever accidentally walk under a spider droppingand their legs are up like this at
you. You know they're dropping andyou see it doing that. So I
saw a big shadow spider coming formy face. I woke up, like,

(45:43):
you know, like not a spreakingshadow spider again. And then it
closed its legs and retracted and guesswhat it turned into. It was a
face of a gray a great alienbeing. Wow, that's what I was
gonna ask you next. When yousaid you've encountered these alien beans, how
are you encountering them? And youjust kind of said at least in one

(46:07):
instance, the shadow Spider turned intoa gray because we have heard through many
of our guests that these ET's orsome of these ets can project different images
and morph and turn into things.And then of course, you know,
I know Heidi and I have talkedabout you know, we're both out in

(46:28):
Boulder, Well we met for lunchand Boulder the highest strangeness activity both at
Skinwalker and Elbert County, and youknow the skin Walkers and how they shape
shift. So you're saying that someof these shadow beings can are et possibly.
Oh yeah, so, oh gosh, there's so much, there's so

(46:50):
much to say, so a lotof people. So my first book is
called The Secret War, right,and people are like, wow, so
you're the first to have research andit's like, well, yeah, that's
the book, and like, howcan you research something that nobody's ever heard
of and it's just my own experiences, and how could it be accurate?

(47:12):
Where today we're still talking about exactlywhat these things are doing today with no
group of people to talk to becauseI was the solo person. You know,
my one friend, I hadn't talkedto her in years after I had
left. It was just whatever.But you know, it wasn't like we
compared notes, you know, soit didn't come to me by me researching

(47:37):
I had I could get. Ohmy gosh. I'll be as fast as
I can explain. I was livingin an apartment by myself. I was
in college. I woke up onenight. I thought somebody broke in,
you know, my dad, Andmy dad's in my head saying a young
woman should not live on the firstfloor of an apartment by herself and somebody

(48:00):
could break in. I'm like,but I was wise. I got a
first floor apartment with fancy bars onthe windows, so I was okay.
But when I woke up and itsounded like somebody broke into my apartment,
I couldn't get out right. Yes, so I wake up. I hear

(48:20):
a loud rustling on my apartment.I'm like, oh no, oh no,
my door's wide open. Whoever itis is in my living room right
outside my bedroom door. My phone'snot near me. I'm like, okay,
okay, okay, Heidi, you'regonna put your feet on the floor.
You're gonna run as fast as youcan to the front door, right,
And so I'm like, I countto three, and I just start

(48:42):
running as fast as I can toget out of the the through the living
room. And that's when I stopbecause I see these like three foot tall
little children in my living room andthey have there's two of them, and
they have their back to me,and they're going through my bookshelf. And
I'm like, what hold on?I think I could take on some kids,

(49:05):
you know. And I stood inthe middle of the of the both
of them, and I looked atthem and I'm like, where are you
What are you doing here? Youknow? I thought I was about to
die, you know, And I'mlike, what are you? What are
you doing here? You know?Like they had my stuff in their hands,
and I grabbed it and I said, put this down. You know,
what are you doing? What areyou doing? What are you doing
here? And then those little kidsturned and looked at me. Okay,

(49:31):
they were the Grays. They hadthe big black eyes, two slits for
a nostril and a slit for themouth, but their mouths were open,
like oh no, she's up.So their mouths were open. And but
again I didn't feel intimidated. Ihad already joined a UFO group. It

(49:54):
wasn't my own at the time,and it was interesting becau because like,
within two weeks of me joining thatgroup, the uh, I had a
black helicopter over my place and thenI get these things this, you know.
So anyways, I grab the stuffout of their hands. I'm like,

(50:15):
put this down, what are youdoing here? And then I hear
noise behind me. There's two morein my walk in closet, just going
through all this stuff, and allof them turned to look at me,
and their mouths were open, likeoh crap, you know, and make
a long story short. There's twomore in my kitchen. There's two more

(50:35):
in my bathroom. It's just nuts. I picked one up and shook it.
It's a long story. I'm sorryI abused this tiny little thing.
But I didn't abuse that. Ijust I was tired of them not answering,
and their mouths were open, youknow. And it sounds crazy,
but they just disappear or run outor like what no, And it's sorry,

(50:57):
I'm skipping over stuff. And Idon't mean to make a on comical
either, because it was horrorfying.It was a horrifying experience. I did
not know, you know, andI knew what they were because I read
books about these things. I justI couldn't understand why the why they were
there. And it didn't even dawnon me, like, gee, why
am I not paralyzed? You know, I'm going around interrogating all of them,

(51:21):
you know, and yeah, wellyeah, right, Well I thought
I was about to die. Ithought some of me broke in, and
I'm like, oh man, youknow what am I going to do?
But when you see these eighty bittythings, You're like, I could,
I could kick them out, youknow. But so this is what happened,

(51:43):
how it ended. After I sawall of them were in there,
I was in the kitchen yelling atthe two, and I'm saying to all
of them really fast, who areyou? What are you doing here?
Who are you? What are youdoing here? Who are you? What
are you doing here? You know? And I saw to my right the
bathroom door. The light was on, but the door was closed, so

(52:06):
I knew there had to be morein there. So I flung the bathroom
door open, and when I did, I accidentally knocked one of them down.
He was behind the door, Andthere was one that was at the
toilet and it was picking up somethingI had on the back of the toilet,
and that one was wearing like theskin tight like suspender, like like

(52:31):
like tight skin suit, but ithad these little strap like like parts there,
and so I grabbed them by hislittle suspenders. I feel terrible the
others. I don't recall them havingany clothes on. I know I did.
I picked it up, and Idid. I'm feel bad when I

(52:52):
think about it. Nervody things.Oh, be kind to the aliens,
you know they I didn't invite themwhat they came into my apartment. I'm
trying to defend myself. I didn'tknow what was going on. I was
in college, and just you know, I picked that one up and with
every word I repeated, because noneof them are answering me, and I

(53:15):
said, who aren't you? Whataren't you? Do? You know,
really really like methodical. It soundshorrible, so bad, but I don't
feel so bad because I don't likethese beings anyways. But this this one
in particular, though, Oh man, I'll never forget this thing. I
had him up close when I heardin my head, I'm your nephew,

(53:40):
I'm your nephew. Oh, AndI turned to look at the one on
the ground, and he had hisarms up like this like he was afraid
I was going to step on him, right, and oh, it's just
so crazy. And I watched thisthing shape shift into my nephew right in

(54:00):
front of my eyes, into ababy blue suit and an afro okay,
And I had this one in myhand that I just yelled at, you
know that, who are you?And I saw I turned to see who
said I'm your nephew. I'm yournephew, and watch him change right,
and that's when I just, Ijust I feel so bad. But I

(54:27):
was like, I said, you'renot my nephew. You look like him
when he was ten years old.You know, he's my nephew, is
like a year younger than me.He's twenty years old now, you know,
Like, so stop lying, youknow. And then I turned my
attention back to the one in myhands. And that's when I got a
really good look at this thing becauseI had him up close. Wow,

(54:50):
and who. This thing had abulbous head like the grays, but it
was flesh toned with a spring offreckles on its nose, human blue eyes,
curly red, tough to hair ontop of its head. And I
felt like I did this thing was. It was shaking like a shirted out

(55:15):
robot, you know, like veryvery very fast. It's just you know,
and I I remember feeling like likeI just terrorized a child. This
is when I felt bad. Youknow. It was half us and half
them, you know. Interesting,it was a it was a hybrid.
And I I put it down.I'm like, hey, hey, hey,

(55:36):
it's okay, relax, relax.It's like, I'm not gonna hurt
you, I said, But youknow, I'm asking all of you,
who are you. Nobody's answering,and then this one's over here lying to
me, you know, and andI and this sounds comical, but this
is the honest truth. I again, I'm thinking I just terrorized a kid.

(55:58):
And I could feel it's tear orin the weeds. It was.
It was breathing like a kid's aboutto cry, you know, you know.
And and I said, hey,calm down, do you want a
cookie? I'll go get you acookie. And I turned to leave my
bathroom and and I'm looking at myrefrigerator and I have like a beautiful cookie

(56:22):
jar on top of my refrigerator.And that's when I saw all the other
gray beings there must have been likenine of them were at the door and
they were they formed a V andI was like, oh great, what
do you guys want now? AndI'm like, I need to get a
cookie to calm down your little creaturehere. You have a little kid.

(56:44):
And and it sounds so weird,but it was like they all went onto
their heel toe heel toe all atthe same time, right, and they
did that a couple of times,and then they went, you know together,
and I felt this way hit me, you know, and I was
out, wow, okay, Andthat takes us right up to break and

(57:07):
oh my goodness. So when youwere out of the shadow people right after
that. Yeah, So when weget back, we're going to do an
evening on Earth with an extra treasurewith Heidi. But let's take our break
really quick. We're just captivated andwe will see you after the break,

(57:37):
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(58:05):
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at KGr dB dot com. Allright, before we get to an evening

(01:01:09):
on Earth with an extra treasurill,I want to put a period on that
encounter you had with these little grades. So I'm assuming these guys are pretty
small, like they were tiny,tiny, Like, I mean, how
big three three and a half threeand a half yeah, yeah, Grades,
yep, absolutely, So they allgo out your door they all kind

(01:01:32):
of go back on their heels.You are knocked out, and then what
happens next day? I am backin my bed and I was like,
oh, no, you did notjust you know, I was like,
what was that? What? Oh? Oh? Right away, I was
like, oh no, you didnot do this. And that day I

(01:01:52):
saw that head and shoulder shadow peoplein my place. It was that immediate,
and I was like, I'd onlyseen the shadow spiders and what am
I looking at? You know,there's just so much to the story.
I couldn't understand. I get thesethings and all of a sudden, I'm
bombarded again. And it wasn't untila little bit time later that I got

(01:02:15):
a college, I got a roommate, I moved into another apartment in the
same building, and that's when Igot answers about shadow people. So it's
like, I try to skip overthese stories because there's so much detail.
But it's like, yeah, so, so did you have evidence, like

(01:02:37):
you they were picking up things andwas your house like ramsack when you woke
up or didn't feel like a dreamto you? Or well, I mean,
I don't even know how how itdidn't. That's the crazy thing.
They really trashed my place. Theywere going through my pots and pants.
It was so loud. It's notlike a freight train of activity going on
in my place. It was loud, and I guess they assumed they knocked

(01:02:59):
me out. I was not,you know, but I was shocked.
I looked around. Oh my gosh, everything is organized. But guess what
the thing I took out of thehands of the one the first one was
a tiny photo album. Guess whatwas in there was a photo of my
nephew in that baby blue suit andan afro. So they were gathering information

(01:03:24):
and I was like, oh,this is this? I mean wow.
So it was like a reconnaissance orso. I don't know. They were
trying to gather the info. Butyou know, I'm always so angry about
that experience because, you know,and I have to make it fun because
it was traumatizing, you know,but it shouldn't have happened. They were

(01:03:45):
not invited, and I honestly feltit was directly connected to my having joined
that UFO group. I joined thatgroup because I had UFOs that were coming
down when I was asking them toshow you subscribe what that looks like,
you know, for you because wehave others do that as well, so

(01:04:05):
the UFOs. Yeah. The firsttime, I had a friend very very
religious and was like, oh,that stuff is demonic, and it got
me questioning. I'm like, wellthat's true, you know. I'm like,
I went out to this parking lotand I was like, you know
what, if you guys have anythingto do with that, I'm done right

(01:04:26):
now. I'm not going to lookinto this at all unless you show yourself
right now. Oh my goodness,a freaking craft showed up this a count
of three, and I was like, oh, and it just streaked the
length of the parking lot and justlit it up. Probably one of the
more dramatic ones. I was witha group of friends were somewhere up in

(01:04:49):
Massachusetts and we saw a bunch oflights and they're really high up and they
look like they were shooting at eachother. It was really strange. Dozens
of them. And I've never Iliterally said this to the heavens. I'm
like, well, since you guysare here, I've never seen a triangular

(01:05:10):
shaped craft, So if you don'tmind dropping by it, appreciate it.
Again, it's probably six of usat count of three, this freaking craft
dropped down so low. We hitthe dirt and it was just like you
want to see me, Heidi,want to see this side? And my
friends hit me. You ask forthis to go to go? I'm like,

(01:05:35):
who would have thought? And mycameras in the car. I'm on
the ground though I didn't want tostand up. It was that it was
like the maybe two three stories aboveus. Wow, you know, and
they've shown up. The last timethey showed up was like a year ago.
I mean, but I don't usuallygo out and say, hey,
come on, but they do,and very dramatically up before. Yeah,

(01:06:00):
they can show themselves or a flashof light in the sky or sometimes they're
close encounters like that. But reallyquick, I start a new little segment
called an Evening on Earth with anExtra Terrestrial. Yeah. So so we're
mighty year. Yeah. So thefirst question I like to ask is if
you, I mean, you're invitingthis one, this one is invited by

(01:06:25):
you. Where on Earth would youhave an evening on Earth? Where would
you have this take place? Anywhereon the planet on the planet. Okay,
we're gonna like because they could probablyprotect me, right no matter where
we're going. I want to checkout a like Set of the Earth like
stuff. You know, I wantto go there. I want to go
there, and I really want tosee what's going on down there. I

(01:06:45):
don't care if it's you know,in the middle of the water. You
know, I want to go downthere. And yeah, that's what we
center. So we're at the centerof the Earth. Yes, just so
happens. At the center of theEarth. You can get any food in
the world. So what would youserve extraterrestrial Well, I'm gonna assume that
they prefer to eat people or something, but I'm gonna go with a nice

(01:07:11):
big triple scoop, like some RockyRoad ice cream. Oh, it's all
the all the fixings. An alienbeing I had interaction with told me they
always wanted to experience ice cream.So that's why ice cream. Yeah,
I'm like, yeah, we'll doice cream. I like that. Ice

(01:07:32):
cream is great. Why not havedessert. I'm never gonna recommend any movie.
Yeah, dessert first, always.Any movie. Yeah, any movie
for your e t friend. Ohokay, well we're gonna go with Marky
Mark's Infinite Yeah, Mark Wahlberg.It's uh, I think it's on Amazon

(01:07:54):
Prime or something, and it's veryinteresting it is. I don't want to
spoil it for anybody, but lookup Infinite because it kind of proves we
are infinite, aren't we? AndI'd want them to see, like,
are we really as infinite as thismovie shows? I know what I'm watching
tonight. After the show. Thereyou go, and I'm gonna have my

(01:08:16):
Rocky Road ice cream and watch InfiniteLike this has happened before. It's times
that I could get. There yougo and I have my movie and I
know what I'm doing. Yeah,they go, and what music? If
you're gonna have some music in thebackground while you're eating your ice cream?
Oh, we're gonna put on somedeep, deep purple stuff with Prince.

(01:08:38):
How about that? I love it. I love it. I love it.
It's like, can you do chordslike that? That man can play
a guitar? Wow. Man,I'm a huge Prince fan, so I
love that we share. My maidenname is Nelson, so you know,
here you go, you're driving mypurple car, so I know. And
I have my purple jeep, andI was gonna name my purple jeep.

(01:09:00):
He's named Apollo, but I wasgoing to name him Purple Rains. So
there you go. See she's gotthe like the dream car. I am
a purple fanatic, That's why Iliked so much. And she's driving my
freaking jeep. I'm like, girl, this is my dream card right here.
I have it around there in Boulder. It's awesome. It's awesome car.
And also, so you get toask one question. What question would

(01:09:20):
that be? Do they believe inGod as well? Interesting? That's a
good good question. I wonder aboutthat too, if ETS has spirituality,
And that actually just leads us verynicely into kind of the bottom line on
this whole phenomenon because Heidi, youyou mentioned you know, demonic and negative

(01:09:42):
and they're not invited. And youknow, when you look at at the
UFO phenomena in a hole, youknow, it's easy to put our own
human belief systems or motivations on whyand what they're doing. And that's hard
to do. But how do yousee this as you know, do you

(01:10:03):
think there's some that are you know, more positive or negative than others?
Is this all energy related? Howdo you view all this at the end
of the day, you know,as far as it gets strange, and
we don't have a whole lot ofwhat we have, like twenty minutes,
leng, No, we have anhour? Oh we have an hour?
Oh well, let me get comfortable. Okay. Cool. So it gets

(01:10:26):
interesting because the other half of thestory is I was met with more positive
alien beings myself in college roommate andyou know, it's like, how do
I view it? Well, itgot proven to me personally that there is
a conflict in contact. And itwas also explained to me it's like,
do you feel like your pet hasa soul? I'm like, well,
yeah, it's like do you feelyou know, maybe a toad has a

(01:10:49):
soul? Well, yeah, welldon't you think aliens would? Oh yes,
I do think aliens? You know, this is the more positive being.
And I'm like okay, yeah Ido. And it's like, well,
just as people can be infiltrated orinfluenced poorly, there are beings that
can be as well, and thatwould involve these you know, people are

(01:11:12):
wondering, are what's the commonality betweengrays reptilians. It's like they do thing
similar but not exactly. You know, it's like, but what is the
agenda? And it was explained tome that the shadow beings was the connecting
factor. So and it's it's sostrange. It's like for myself, you

(01:11:33):
know, like I was saying,how could I have studied something that nobody's
ever heard of before? It cameby way of this alien contact that myself
and my college roommate had, andhow that came to be I'll say real
quickly. She went to a differentcollege than I did. She was Pentecostal,

(01:11:54):
super religious, didn't get into youknow, oh you're demonic friends,
you know, what are you gettinginto? And she fell into the category
of all my other friends that Ithought this stuff was just a bunch of
hokey stuff. Or they couldn't talk. I couldn't talk about it unless they
were making fun of it. Soshe's driving to her school one day,
broad daylight. A being jumped onthe hood of her car and shoved its

(01:12:17):
head through her windshield and she Idon't know how she made it to her
class, but she called me ina panic, just talking a mile a
minute. She's Puerto Rican, veryvery heavy accent. I don't speak Spanish,
and she was like, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, What's going on? She's like, this alien I'm like

(01:12:40):
an alien. You know. It'slike I could hear her crying. I
could hear the stress. And I'mlike, do you need me to come
pick you up? You know,I don't understand. It's a long story
short. We later meet up atthe lake in Milwaukee and uh, and
I'm like, so, tell meyou know what took place? And she
starts telling me this whole you knowwhat happened. And then she's explaining to

(01:13:04):
me and there's a whole lot ofdetails in it. She's like, I
need to meditate. I'm like,meditate. You know, I didn't know
she did that. Sitting in thecar, she's telling me this cool story,
and now she wants to go tosleep. I don't know what she's
trying to do. She closed hereyes for a split second and her accent
reduces and her voice changes, andshe says, hello, I've been waiting

(01:13:28):
to speak to you for a verylong time. Again, Super. I
can't even stress how religious she was. You know, I'm like, ah,
Samantha, and it said, no, this is not Samantha. Oh
no. Now, i'd been attendingthis UFO meeting. I had seen people

(01:13:48):
be regressed, and i'd seen peopleas they're talking about their experience, all
of a sudden, like the beingis talking through them. I've seen that
like on twice, two occasions beforethat. So I was like and the
voice said, you know, Isaid, oh, really, who's speak
Anthony. She's trying to mess withme. I'm what you would call an

(01:14:10):
alien. Oh really, you know, it's like, well where are you?
Then? You know, like,oh, I'm in a ship very
high up and I'm like a shipand I'm like, well, show yourself
then, you know, and he'slike, I cannot any any longer because
your governments know how to shoot usdown. And I was like, you

(01:14:30):
know, and I know something's up, you know, but I was still,
you know, I'm pressed up againstthe door, like should I jump
out of the car? And I'mlike okay. And then the voice said,
but I think I'm close enough toproject an image of myself. And
before I could say yes or no, the car started filling with this hum

(01:14:53):
and that's when this tiny, fleshy, pink colored creature that kind of looked
like a small child appeared in theseat between the both of us, and
I was like, oh, okay, okay, okay, I can't believe
I believe it. I see you, okay, okay, okay, I'm
like, what, you know,what when am I looking at? You

(01:15:15):
know? And so I knew thisis real, you know. And again,
to make a long story short,my friend Pau's back and she's like,
oh man, what was that.And I'm like, I don't know,
but I saw it. You hadyour eyes closed. She's like,
I saw it. I was onthis other place and she's like, you
know, I was like, whatare you what is it? How what

(01:15:36):
are you doing? She's like,I don't know. I want to meditate,
and and I saw this being inthis space and and so we're like
kids in a candy shop. We'relike, you know, we go back
to the apartment. I'm like,I think you can do it again.
You see if you can do itagain, I'm like yeah, and I
and yeah. I asked all thequestions, like can you tell us a

(01:15:59):
lottery number? You know, likecan you you know, you feel like
you got all the keys to theuniverse, tell me everything, you know?
And it was crazy and I'm skippinga whole lot of steps, but
most of the questions, and thiswas time and time again. We were
trying this day after day. Thebeing would say, it would not benefit
you to know that, you know. I'm like, where's your planet?

(01:16:23):
How would you know what I'm speakingof? What's the name of it?
You wouldn't know what it is anyhow. And it was like, well,
what the why They're not tell youanything? But they are. Yeah,
I'm like, what's the point?You know? Why are you here?
And then I just got bored andstarted talking about anything, and I shared
one dream with him, and that'swhen I got answers. I told them

(01:16:46):
I had a crazy dream. Isaw the moon. It seems so real.
I saw the moon coming towards theplanet, like it was going to
hit us, but a ship appearedin front of it and started pulling the
moon so it wouldn't kill us.And I finally get an answer from him.
He goes, well, we saw, he said, I don't do

(01:17:12):
dreams, but we saw the darknessin your planet was pulling the moon towards
it. We saw what happened,and we intervened to pull it off.
Course you call them shadow people.We call them the shadows. Oh,
and that was the beginning of thismind blowing Like what did I just come

(01:17:33):
into and it's being day after day, week after week, month after month,
would tell me all this information aboutwhat these things were. He'd already
proven to me he was real,you know, and everything he's told me
is coming to pass. It's like, you don't know this now, but

(01:17:55):
this is a worldwide phenomenon. It'sgoing to come to such a head where
it's going to be so widespread.This is what you need to warn people
about. Don't record me, don'twrite this down. You know you need
he said. He essentially told meyour book will turn out nicely. I'm
like, who's writing a book?I'm in college, have much to do,
you know, And uh but uhyeah, I wrote that book while

(01:18:18):
I was in college. This isher book. Well, Heidi, that's
that's kind of I mean, whatan interesting, interesting story this. So
you're dealing with part it's you're talkingabout needing protections. So you're dealing with
these terror these horrifying things and howcan you stay safe? And that's what

(01:18:42):
I find interesting about your book.And you know, you have obviously some
faith behind you or you're you you'rehelping. You know, faith comes in
all forms. It's not not necessarilydenominational. But you know, it's being
positive and putting protections around you.And you talked about like the helling costume.
It's almost our own personal responsibility tomake sure that we don't invite these

(01:19:04):
negative things in and have those protectionsaround us. And your books have some
wonderful techniques on how to rid yourselfof these things and give you some peace
and some faith, and they're justthe hat man and I love it.

(01:19:25):
The illustrations are great, and soI guess on that you know, it's
a kind of a positive negative typeof thing, and you feel this negative
force with that shadow and the darknessand stuff. Do you think that all
shadows are negative? Do you thinkthat can they change shift negative and positive?
Or I'm not really sure? Butwhat do you say about your protections

(01:19:47):
and what people should do about that? Well, it's an ailien to tell
me that I didn't pray enough toknow that I had taken a step back
from religion, you know, Jesusbeing real or anything like that, And
for this being to tell me,do you know Christ is who he said

(01:20:10):
he is? What it's like?Come on now? And it's like when
you're in the presence of these darkthings, they come from a dark source.
There was a light source out there, that is God, that is
where Christ came from. This isthat, you know, and so,
and it just wasn't him telling methis. I'd had other experiences that moved

(01:20:34):
me to understand, Oh, man, Jesus is no joke, which is
the title of my other book.Because I was a skeptic, I slammed
what people were saying Jesus in mypiece of toast to a piece of wood,
you know, I'm like, comeon, yeah, I was like,
that's just a bunch of malarkey,you know. And before you know,

(01:20:56):
it took me two months to writethat book, The Secret War,
four years to get it published,and I sent it out all over the
place to try to get people andto publish it, which were other authors
in the field and radio show hostsand so if anybody spoke of Shadow People
before, that's probably because I senthim a copy try and get it published.
And I was just, you know, I was just trying to,

(01:21:19):
you know, get it out.And during that time, I'm editing,
finishing things here and there, andI had a Christ Jesus experience that changed
everything for me. And being aspainfully honest as I can It's like,
I'm not a psychic, I'm notanything special, but hot dog, if

(01:21:41):
something happened, I'm gonna write aboutit. I don't know. I don't
know how to put a title onit. And I can share with us
a little bit about what happened foryou. Oh gosh, yeah, the
first time, because I've seen themseveral times now. I was, I
was in school. I worked,and I come home, take a nap,
go to my class. I camehome till my roommate turned TV down.

(01:22:03):
I go to lay down in mybed and yeah, I mean,
you get your pillows ready and whatever, and you get on the bed.
Well, I I missed the bedand hit the floor, and I was
like, what the heck? AndI got up. I'm like ow,
you know, and I go toget up and I'm not in my bedroom.

(01:22:28):
I was for some reason. Ohguess me, good chills. I
was in front of my my family'shome, and I can't even tell you
what it's like to be like,well, how did they get here?
You know? And I'm like lookingaround, I'm trying to make sense of
it, and I see this manat the end of my parents' driveway.

(01:22:49):
It's kind of a long driveway,and I was like, I was I
was supposed to meet a family friendnamed Quincy at my family's home. So
I'm like, yeah, this isthis, what's going on? You're supposed
to come here, you don't rememberhow you got here? And there goes
Quincy right now, and I seethis man coming up, and I mean,
still being my silly self, almostimmediately I recognize who it was,

(01:23:12):
and I just palmmed my face,like, oh my god, you know.
And he gets close to me andI'm not looking up. I'm palming
my face. And this man sayshello, as if he's going to talk
about the weather, and I'm like, hello, you know, and and
he goes, do you know whoI am? If you knew who I

(01:23:34):
was, he would not hesitate tosay it. And I remember pulling my
hands away from my face and I'mstuttering, yah, yeah, your haus.
I don't speak a lick of Spanish. And he said, yes I
am, and I saw him justoh bubs. He like rows up off

(01:23:57):
the ground. He's all in thisoff white and just unbelievable. And he
started telling me about his life andhow so much needed to be done and
and I'm just like still my crazyself going holy so anxiety. I'm hitting
my leg, I'm pinching myself.I am here, he is here.

(01:24:20):
I could barely listen to him becauseI'm freaked out in a good way,
because I just can't believe it.And then that's when I realized the ground's
really close to me. I'm touchingthe ground with my hand. I'm like,
oh, I'm on my knees.I don't even remember falling to my
knees. And then he stopped talking, and that's when I started again again.

(01:24:42):
I'm like, what do you wantme to do? And that's when
he said, you need to finish. You need to show us some things.
You need to finish writing your book. And that was the Secret War
Book. And he and one thingthat really meant a lot to me,
he said, don't worry what otherpeop people say. No that I'll be
there to give you the words.Because I was painfully shy. I would

(01:25:06):
not do presentations in my very toughclasses because I was too nervous. I'd
give up the grade, you know, instead, and just make sure I
had straight a's and everything else soI could pass. So for him to
say that and to introduce two topicsto the world. Nobody realized it was

(01:25:26):
because Jesus promised me that. Sobefore I come on any show or do
anything, I look to the heavensand I'm like, I say, you
promised me you'd give me the words, and I'm holding you to it because
I have nothing to say. Butdo you believe they got to protect yourself?
Sorry? But yeah, so doyou believe there is this battle going

(01:25:47):
on? Is it for people's souls? What is happening here? And are
we hitting you with everything that's comingout in the news in Congress and you
know these big strides were taken.Is this all part of that plan?
And what are we to expect?You know? It? Is this this
thing, this presence, this threat, this darkness that's here. I don't

(01:26:11):
care if it comes in the formof an alien being that's been essentially possessed.
Imagine that possessed beings by a shadowypresence. That's the connecting factor.
And what are they probing for?What are they trying to get at?
They come at you usually when yourguard is down, when they can paralyze

(01:26:33):
you and say now I've got you. You know, oh big man,
you have to paralyze me and comeat night while I'm sleeping. What a
bunch of crap is that the shadowbeings do this, that the aliens do
this. They can't take us aswe are, So there's something to be
said about the human potential and thesoul that they want. They are trying

(01:26:53):
to stop us evolving. Essentially,when it comes to this battle, we
have to realize that we have asoul first off, before we could take
a step. So many people areat the first stage of realizing, Hello,
there's something inside. I'm not agod because I didn't create myself.

(01:27:14):
I didn't do that. People arelike, oh, this is what did
it? I'm like, whatever floatsyour boat. But when you're looking into
a ten foot tall shadow being andyou're like, I take you on,
go for it, throw a shoeat it. Then, because God,
you know, I know what Ihave to use to take that on.
And it's not just me. Yes, you have to stand firm, but

(01:27:35):
also have no doubts that there isanother source that is a polar opposite and
that's what I call on. That'sGod, that's Christ. You know I'm
biased because I am absolutely Christian.You have a little meeting with Jesus.
He kind of flip that all tothe signe. I was not on that

(01:27:57):
page at that time, you know, but before he popped in, so
uh yeah, so it was itis. It is a it is a
big battle. They do want toconquer us. But as far as like
what's happening with this revelation of theUFO phenomenon, Oh my goodness, there's

(01:28:17):
so much to say about that.I learned about my father having ties that
are really man deep in the government. Just watch the team show Millennium.
That was who was your dad?And I'm sorry, I know he passed,
you know, in the last whatyear or so, so appreciate it.

(01:28:40):
Can you talk about who maybe yourdad was and what his connection is?
Yeah? I could, I couldspeak to some of it. I
did not know that he ran aNORAD station. I didn't know. I
didn't know a lot of things abouthim, and uh, there's some things
I don't know when I could everspeak about all of it. But when

(01:29:02):
I was watching a television series calledMillennium with my friends, and my friends
are laughing like, oh my god, to this lady looks just like you
on the series, and then theycalled her agent Hollis and we froze.
I'm like, what on earth isthe new character I've never seen before?
And it's got my name in myface? And they introduced her sister,

(01:29:25):
same nickname I gave my sister,and then they say, my dad's full
name is my character's name father onthe show? What? Yeah? Yes,
it's it's a lot. There's alot of things on there. And
guess what she didn't know her fatherwas involved in the government either, So

(01:29:46):
it's a lot. It's a thirdand final season of Millennium, which is
a spin off of The X Files, you know, And I've found more
answers recently regarding that that I'm stilltrying to sink into my But I remember
saying to my dad, calling himup, Dad, why are we on
TV? You know? And he'slike, what show? I'm like,
I told him. All he saidwas huh. That's all he said.

(01:30:11):
Oh he knew more, he knew, he knew more. So that's all
I could say about that. Butit's I I man, it's so much
more. Recently, I'm learning aboutelements that I just never would thought i'd
be going to. So I hopevery soon I'll be able to speak to

(01:30:33):
it more as I come to understandmore things. But you know, with
the government saying, oh my god, the whole uIP conversation, I'm like,
stop calling it that. Lets youget the title that we've been thanks
to us who have been in thetrenches saying UFO all this time. Suddenly
you're going to try to whitewash it. Heck, no, they are UFOs

(01:30:58):
and you're welcome that. We didn'tgive up until you started talking though it's
all lies. I didn't fall forit. But you know, everybody's like,
well, aren't you just glad they'rebringing it up Heidi, Well,
yeah, but not if they're gonnalie and have people whistle blow on themselves.
You know, it's it's they needto cough up what's in their backyard,

(01:31:19):
dig it up already, and quitwith the stupidity of playing us for
fools. I've been interrogated by thegovernment. I don't know if you guys
have, but it wasn't fun.And yeah, I don't know why I
don't get paralyzed or forget stuff.It ticks them off. I smacked one
of the military guys. I'm notviolent, I swear to you. I

(01:31:42):
didn't mean, I didn't mean tosmack the guy, but he took in
my pants. This this military dudeand I and he was telling me,
this is all going to seem likea bad dream. You're not gonna remember.
So yes, I am, Iremember you, you know. So

(01:32:08):
it's crazy. It's a crazy world. So I don't know, Heidi,
how has this made you think aboutif there is an afterlife or if there
is something that happens after this,you know, with these abilities, these
aliens and you know our I wouldassume maybe we're all one. But I'm

(01:32:29):
just curious what your thoughts are onthat. Yeah, well it's it's strange
for myself. Again, it goeshow do we get answers? Sometimes it
comes from your own experiences. AndI've had some experience that I didn't know
how to put a name or titleto it. But since I was a
kid, I've talked about this placethat I know I go to, which

(01:32:53):
looks like ancient Greek buildings but they'rewhite, marble and crystal. So I
call it the chrys Still City,and I was I'm just very familiar with
it and the people and what happensthere. And then I've heard people have
near death experiences and they're talking aboutthis place, and I'm like, what,

(01:33:15):
so, I'm very aware of theirbeing and in between and their being
an afterlife, and that these alienbeings are very aware of it as well,
and they try to intervene in people'snear death experiences, which is not
okay if they're not so positive guys. You know, but I've been in
this field for a while to know, and sat alongside of people who were

(01:33:41):
sleeping with guns dinner their pillows tokill the next alien that came floating their
kid out the window, only forthem to say, you know, I
watched the transition go I'm chosen,I'm special. This happened for a reason.
And I don't want to pooh poohwhat people believe to be true for
themselves. They have to do whatthey have to do to survive. But

(01:34:02):
when I saw all of them gothat way, I was stunned. I'm
like, what you I saw thisguy pacing the floor at the meetings talking
about the rifles he's got in hishouse, I'm gonna kill, you know,
and and the blood on my pillow, and then he became this serene
man. I'm chosen, I amspecial, I'm like, it was weird.

(01:34:28):
I can't even stress that enough.And now the extra element Heidi that
that that is a Korean and shouldpeople be a little more to just sort
of jump on that. It's allyeah, my rainbows. Man. It's
like, guys, if you didn'tput out that invitation to say, come
on in and you know, haveat my children, you know, do

(01:34:48):
this whatever you want. Uh,this is not okay. You know,
if I had a friend that keptsmacking me upside the head when they came
over and then apologize I don't wantthem over. Why are we okay with
this? The word abduction, youknow, it's an it's an assault.
But that's why they change it tocontact ee. And I'm like, I

(01:35:11):
am very worried about those folks thatare having these experiences that have changed.
Oh they taught me something right afterthey probed me or cut my gut open,
you know, or took my baby. That's that's not okay. You
know, an abusive husband will bringyou flowers. You know, we've got
to have some more understanding. AndI you know, being biased and being

(01:35:36):
having the Christian background though I have, honestly my closest friends are Jewish and
Muslim. Wherever I move is.I don't know why, but it's just
what it is. And it's like, and I've known some of them to
have some issues like this too.But I'm like, I tell people I
use in Jesus name, get outof here. You're not welcome. Yeah,
why does it work? They leave? Why do they not like it?

(01:35:58):
I you know, it's the forceof It's what I identify with as
their opposing force. A lot ofpeople are like, I don't get into
that religious thing, but I justsaw the devil, you know, and
they describe man. I'm like,well, that's a religious term. You
know. Why are we afraid tosay we're Christian? Out of all the
religions I know? And I don'tgo to church. I'm realistic though.

(01:36:21):
I know what works, I knowwhat helps, and I know what I'm
comfortable with. It's that's why I'vewritten written all the books that I have.
They kind of all encompass the same. Get comfortable with your soul,
Realize there's a threat and there's athere's a God that's out there to protect
you. I think it's interesting,Heidi. Two. In your comics,

(01:36:44):
you have Love and Light, WatchingOver and it's hyperical. It's hysterical love
and licensed giant eyeball watching us thatit's funny. I'm glad you caught someone.
Yeah, that's their name. Loveit. I'm just like, did
I just read that? Ry?Oh, that's hilarious. It's very positive

(01:37:06):
though, it's awesome. I tryI try to encompass real elements of what
we deal with in this crazy worldof ours into that. There's Bigfoot,
there's aliens, there's a ghost,there's love and light, there is speaking
of big photo sasquatch. Do youfeel these beans are connected to UFOs and

(01:37:28):
ets or or what do you feelabout these creatures these scripteds? I do
I feel they are. I mean, it's pretty clear that they're hanging out.
I don't know if they're the petof some of these creatures or not
UFOs, but they're infiltrating and Ican tell you a really quick story about
something. This is nuts. SoI always have television producers calling me for

(01:37:49):
I want you to do this right. I got this one producer talking to
her for a while and then Ihang up the phone and then she texts
me. She's like, what wasthe voice on the phone. It's like
oh no, I like, herewe go, because every once in a
while there's there's I get this,it's a guy's voice that I'll talk through

(01:38:09):
my phone to people and I can'thear it, but others do. And
then she's trying to tell me whathe's saying, and that she's just like
calls me back. She goes,look, I heard this man talking and
he keeps saying tell her not togo, no, don't go. And
I'm like and then she's like,okay, he's describing to me something.

(01:38:31):
As I'm talking to her, sheand she described a conversation I had earlier
in the day when I was livingin California. This is just like two
years ago or something. And she'sdescribed the conversation. I was going to
go hiking in the mountains with agroup of three people. And she's like,
I'm not going to repeat this.This is terrible. I'm not this

(01:38:55):
is stupid. I'm like what She'slike, he says, you want to
go on a hike with three people, but something happens to you, and
it's like, but I don't wantto say what it is. And she's
like, you sit down and somethinggrabs you. It's a freaking bigfoot.
Okay, he says, a hairycreature grabs you. No, don't go.

(01:39:15):
Do you think I went on thathike? I would. I hope
you didn't. I did not.I did not, No, but I'd
had some run ins with them,and one that I saw in somebody's home
that so I don't know what thatis. I don't know why it was
able to manifest inside somebody's place,and I saw it with one other friend

(01:39:40):
manifest and disappear. Right, I'veheard that before, So if there is
a trickster element to some of theseet shadow beans hat Man, First of
all, can you define or explainto us a difference between shadow and hat
man? I mean, obviously it'sthe hat but are there any other differences
between the two. Yeah. Unfortunately, when I first introduced them to the

(01:40:03):
world, I had all the differentcategories names, so shout spider, shadow,
streak, shadow, cloud, hatman, shadow is what I called
him, so people keep categorize himas a shadow being. A few years
after I did try to correct itand tell people, oh, no,
he's very different from just being ashadow being, because yeah, he could

(01:40:24):
appear as a shadow, but hecould step out of the shadows and be
very solid like you or I andgrab. He talks, he has teeth,
he has clothing. I mean,he is very, very solid and
very interactive with people and their souls. Unfortunately, I just if he likes

(01:40:46):
to kind of a grim reaper type. I mean, if he shows up,
is that like Doom and Gloom,You're like, he's got a grim
reaper looking thing that works for himthough you could call him a grim reaper
type, I guess. But hehe likes to play with his food,
if you will. He likes tomess with people anything you can imagine.
He bites, the cratches, hekicks, he rapes men, women,

(01:41:12):
children, whatever you can imagine.And it's like when people are in his
presence, if he's at a certainlevel, like I get a lot of
people. You asked somebody as areall of them good? Bad or some
good? You'll hear some people onlineand they're trying to grow in this understanding
of this phenomenon. They're not allbad. The one I see is good.

(01:41:33):
I'm like, what makes them good? Well, I wasn't scared.
Oh well, I'm not scared either, mind you, but I'm pretty sure
that nasty piece of crap is prettyevil and he's observing you. He's looking
for a way to get at you, and he's very patient. He might
wait forty years and find a wayat your soul, but he's going to

(01:41:57):
find it. So if it's inyour space, don't don't be patient with
it. Get rid of it.And one of the ways of doing that
is blessing your space. And that'sthe other hat Man book that you've got.
Because I had so many people Iwrote it. I always give it
out like this is how you blessyour space to clear it, but people
weren't getting it. So I drewthat second hat Man book so people see

(01:42:18):
how to do it. Yeah,this one right here, Yes, that's
the one and one teaches you howto clear your space. I had so
many kids reaching out. You know, they're not just playing on your cell
phone. Yeah, there you go. They're not just playing on your cell
phone. They're reaching out to mesaying, I'm seven years old, my
mommy thinks I'm crazy. Please help. And that's a good question, Heidi.

(01:42:41):
Do they seem to appear because ofthe encounters I had in connection with
which I made all these years laterto the ranch phenomenon with the shadow beings
was when I was a younger child. So when you're an innocent child and
these things are trying to make yoursoul or whatever and you're not aware how
to protect yourself, I mean,can you then you know? How do

(01:43:05):
we protect children? And why children? Like what is going on with that?
It ticks me off? And that'swhy when I went back to the
ranch and you and I talked,I kind of was in this fighting mode
like, look, I don't wantanything, but I mean most of most
people out there obviously do not wantbad things attached to them, right,
And I think that's why you hadthat phenomena of people taking something that's so

(01:43:28):
traumatic and terrifying, a scary eventwith either hat Man show up, shadow
Man, extraterrestrials, and abduction,and they try to put a positive spin
on it because you said it it'sa way to cope, it's a way
to have humor around it. Butwe're talking about something that's really traumatic.
People suffer PTSD from these things,and so why children and how? I

(01:43:50):
mean, what are some things thatwe can do And how do you advise
parents that have children that might besaying, hey, mom, dad,
I'm seeing things room yeah, butwhat's a dude. He's a groomer,
like a pervert. He will groomchildren. This is why he goes after
them when they're young. He triesto get them to be comfortable with his

(01:44:12):
presence. The hat Man does hisminions as well, the shadow people,
just to get them comfortable and youknow, and sometimes not sometimes very terrifying,
very aggressive, and to get youto crumble in fear, especially if
you're a strong spirited person, child, whatever. But otherwise I've had people
say I would snuggle up with himat night. Oh imagine, he don't

(01:44:34):
imagine, But I had another guy. I don't know how you're two and
three years old having a memory beingin your crib and hat Man threatening your
life and understanding that, Oh,how's that possible? But absolutely so.
He does what it takes to getthe kids to bend to his will,
and he's trying to control their path. Okay, it's not you know people

(01:44:59):
like well I played with weage Aboardonce. Well, yeah, that could
have attracted them, for sure,But when they really work on a person
they like, they hate my guts. I take it as a compliment,
but when it really works on aperson, I'm like, well, who
are you that they're trying to stopyour future and stop what you're capable of.

(01:45:19):
They are a powerhouse. They arethe talented people, the creative people,
the evolving people. So it's ninetimes out of ten it's that versus
oh, you're such an evil person. But they call alcohol spirits for a
reason. These things take advantage ofyou when you're down, when you're sick,

(01:45:40):
when you're dying. So if thepresence of negative aliens, negative shadow
things are around you when you crossover, they're the first to grab at
you. You have to get ridof them. Now. I thought it
was funny, Heidi in your bookthe I'm not I'm not laughing at the
such, but your book is justwonderful, the humor in it. But

(01:46:02):
how the kid goes to tell hisparents or his mom that he saw something
and she goes, oh, youate some beans again. Yeah, man,
you just get laughed at. It'strue. It's true, and it's
sad. It's like, you know, it's like it's time that we get

(01:46:26):
comfortable with this. And uh,that's why I take the approach that I
do. There's enough spookiness out thereand I just you know, fine,
let's have it laughed together and let'stake this stuff seriously at the same time,
there's a way and a method toit. And I'm hoping God willing
that we find these answers together forall of it. Right. I Mean

(01:46:48):
we often hear that as children,don't we like, it's the boogeyman,
it's your overactive imagination. I mean, you know it's beans whatever. And
can you speak about like, likeyou have siblings, right, so can
you talk about why perhaps certain phenomenonboth in the UFO world paranormal seem to

(01:47:13):
affect different people, even within familygroups siblings differently. Well, it runs
in my family. We've we've alllived in a haunted house. We experienced
things. The shadow people went afterthem, all this stuff. You know,
after I started talking about it,They're like, gosh, I can't
sleep at night. I'm like,woops, you know they've gone after my

(01:47:35):
patients. They've gone. But youknow it, they do follow family lines.
And but there's just like there's theartists, the creative minded in the
family. They really seem to target, uh, those people who think outside
the box, those who can seemore clearly what these things are up to
and maybe warn the next person tryingto be talking from the yead work.

(01:48:00):
If you can see your enemy coming, you are ahead of the game.
They don't want that. You couldprepare yourself and prepare the next person.
So that's why you'll hear people sayI saw this thing looking in the window.
Suddenly my house is messed up becausethey saw you could see. That's
why they come, yeah, it'scrazy. And that that might also help

(01:48:23):
to explain why so many abductees willcall them abductees for the show often have
these psychic gifts or precognition because youhear this time and time again. I
mean, move on. Years ago, we did not have the e RT
team, which is the Experience ResourceTeam. We have it now, and

(01:48:43):
I'm happy that mofon has that resourcefor you know, you know these experiencers,
because it is important to be ableto share them with other people who
will take the time. And thepeople on the R t our own Shane
hurt Is on the RT, theyare trained in how to listen and talk
and you know, assistance and guidancebecause that was something that was available to

(01:49:08):
them in years past. So I'mreally grateful that that we found taking that
step to do that because it's soimportant if you are going through these I
mean, it is a scary topic, and I'm glad you have a sense
of humor and a lightheartedness that weboth appreciate so much about it. But
at the end of the day,it is a scary phenomenon and it and

(01:49:30):
you know from what I'm hearing,for none of these things are good,
right, any of these this darkenergy, And that's how I've alwa viewed
it for me personally. You know, you have positive negative, ying and
yang good energy, bad energy,and you know, how do we surround
ourselves and even some of the thingsaround here. You know, I'm quickly,

(01:49:53):
you know, get out whatever thisis. But how can you tell
the difference? Is like, youknow, I have loved ones that passed.
We all do within our family.How do we know it's not you
know, Grandpa or Dad or whoever, and it's something else like when something
normal happens. Is there a wayto tell the difference. We have a
gut instinct for a reason, youknow, And I think it tells us

(01:50:15):
while that thing felt like it wasthreatening my soul versus not, you know,
a spirit is it's more comforting andsomething that is absent of light.
That's what shadow people are. It'san absence of light. I get that
so much in the email, likenothing reflected darker than the dark dark hole
and a black hole, yes,darker than the dark. The room was

(01:50:39):
dark, but this was darker.And it's just it's very distinctive. So
in the beginning, when I wasintroducing this topic, I had so many
ghost hunters saying, Oh, you'rejust in a shadow of ghosts. I'm
like, wait till you meet one, And slowly they started getting what I
was talking about. And because itwas just as these alien beings told me,

(01:51:00):
people are going to start seeing theseand droves and then the next step
happens. And that next step issomething I hope I could talk about soon
as I get more information. Butthe book The Secret War is an alien
book that happens to introduce what thesoul element is, what these dark things
are, you know, So it'snot a paranormal ghost hunter book. It

(01:51:25):
is an alien book. What's happeningwith the alien abductions and the contact and
what are the different forces of beingsout there? And if I was wrong,
this phenomenon wouldn't be this big growingthing as it is now. And
you know it's a shame too.I have to say really quickly. People
think that all the material that's outthere and shadow people hat Man is my

(01:51:46):
stuff. It is my stuff.But you know, guys think they could
present it better than us ladies,right, and so they grab it and
then they distort it and they're tryingto conjure it and putting all this inform
out there. That's, oh,there's nothing to worry about, that's okay.
They're in your home and and it'sit's causing harm. And people wonder

(01:52:08):
why I trademarked these things. It'sbecause of the harm and to slow people
have died from their challenges to conjurethese things, to drug themselves to conjure
these things. And then I hear, oh, there's this show out there
hiding you what, there's a moviehidie what. I'm like, holl it.
They contacted me. I told them, no, it's my material.

(01:52:30):
They go and do it anyways,and it's a shame and a sham and
it's a it's it's harmful. Soh yeah. If people, I'm like,
why did stan Lee trademark Spider Man? Like why you know why did
you put a trademark? Well,kind of important. You want you want
to protect people. With only acouple of minutes left in the show,
you've been a fascinating guest and Iappreciate you bringing up these hard to talk

(01:52:55):
about topics. Taking market times andyou know it's a good time of year
to kind of talk about these.But yeah, an important topic, nonetheless,
because I do think there's a battleout there and it's been going on
for thousands of years. But what'sin't On a positive note, not all
terterrestrials are negative, are they?No, we have some good ones out
there fighting us. I mean,do you believe that to be true?

(01:53:16):
Yes, a secret word, there'sa dark and a light source absolutely at
odds with each other, and knowthat there's a god and you've got to
be able to protect yourself, youknow. And I hope people get that
message and if they have questions andthe experiences they've had, I also have
on my program Dark Becomes Light answerpeople's emails or on a YouTube channel.

(01:53:39):
YouTube channel, so feel free towrite me through my website. Yeah.
Yeah, no, Like I said, I think that's an important way to
close this on a positive, lightheartedlike you know, keep your positive gratitude
is important around these important positive thinkingand most importantly, I think we're all
hard on ourselves. So yes,it's nice to you know yourself, start

(01:54:03):
there, start there, and thenalways shine that light out to others.
And don't keep these things secret,keep a journal, talk to people if
scary things are happening, especially toyour children or any kids that you know.
And I really want to thank youHeidi. I hope we get to
see each other again soon. Girlfriendto move on conference. Hello, I've

(01:54:26):
not done one. Yeah, wewould like that through my name in the
hat. I mean, I haveso much to talk about yet, so
yeah, truly I appreciate you both. Thank you for having me on and
thank you. We'll have to doit again right, yes, yes,
and thank you Tara, thank you, Tihanelle run in the back end.
We're going to do it without you. Bill Skywatcher, we miss you.

(01:54:49):
Thank you for running. K gA and Shane Hurd please get better.
And I hope you're with us well. Actually next week we're going to be
doing a rerunch, but we willbe back. I will be out there
on the East coast for that conference, so we will see you a week
from now, and I hope therest of you all have a fabulous rest

(01:55:09):
of your week with many good thingscoming your way. So until then,
we'll see you a week from now, So good night, everybody. Good
thanks Hid, thank you,