Jeff MacBJurnie & Carl Andreasen

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Governments deny, militaries denying, eventhe mainstream media denies it. But they
are here, and they've been herefor a very long time. The Mutual
UFO Network has been on the frontlines uncovering the truth since nineteen sixty nine,
and now we're sharing that truth withyou. Welcome Moufan. What's Up

(00:34):
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KGRA Digital Broadcasting Network wondering What's up? Sorrow week? Whats up everybody?

(00:58):
It is Tuesday nights. Sorry,we're running a little bit late. We
had a ghost in the machine,a little bit of a glish But we're
here now, We're here live.Thank you all for being here with us.
We are moof on What's Up Radio, The show that says discovery starts
with curiosity, and curiosity starts withMoufon. Brought to you by kg R
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(01:21):
Network, always asking that all importantquestion, are we alone in the universe?
We have got a couple of greatguests for you tonight. We have
Jeff mac Bernie and Carl Andresen fromMount Wilson Ranch, And as you guys
know, the Colorado Ranch and MountWilson are on Wonderful Beyond Skinwalker and I
just recently got to meet Jeff inperson and visit his beautiful ranch, and

(01:44):
I'm excited to have them on theshow. I would first like to bring
in my co host, tarad Ulis. You can see Tara right here on
sky Tour live stream with Mark D'Antonioright here on KGIRA. Hey, Kathleen,
thanks for hanging in there with us. I hope you're having a good
Tuesday. I to mention a coupleof conferences. We have Contact in the
Desert coming endto May May thirtieth throughJune third. You can check out tickets

(02:09):
and all their speakers and all theevents at Contact inthe Desert dot com.
And also we have the Moufon Symposiumopening up at Moufon symposium dot com.
That's going to be out there inIrving, Texas July eleventh through the July
fourteenth, So hopefully you guys canmake it up to the symposium this year.

(02:30):
Any other news, I don't thinkso. Hi. How was your
week, Tara? Hi? Beengreat, been great, just doing a
lot of housework, and I'm justwondering, Katie, I know a lot
of laundry. Have have you everhad any housework nightmares? Katie? No,
never. I don't do housework.I don't cook, I don't clean.

(02:53):
I'm just kidding. That sounds likea nightmare. I don't know.
Well, today's me is inspired byhousework nightmares. So it finds a couple
in bed where one just turned onthe light and at the foot of the
bed is this green, alien,tentacled creature monster thing. And then the

(03:14):
woman's size. Oh thank god,because in the dark I thought it was
a pile of laundry. I wishI had a picture of my pile of
laundry in my room, because Ikid you not, it's bigger than that.
It's like Katie's mount everest of laundry. Oh my god. I just
don't have a closet space. Ieven have half my wardrobe down under the
house because I'm like, I'm justout of space anyway. So that's funny.

(03:38):
I need a copy of that one. Yeah, that's funny. Product.
There be an alien being the laundryany day. Well, today's product
is inspired by our guests you know. Now, they didn't know I was
going to do this, but Iwanted to share with you a brief snapshot
of the Mount Wilson website. Ohcool. Yeah, So it's a Mount

(04:00):
mt Wilson Ranch dot com and where, of course there are legends of UFO
sidings, ghosts, lost gold,and a bunch of other mysteries apparently.
So they're located just north of LasVegas and it has a storied past.
This ranch does that. Hopefully wewill get to hear more about. So

(04:21):
before Skinwalker Ranch, researchers were lookingfor UFOs and portals and paranormal activity at
Mount Wilson Ranch. So you caneven go to YouTube. They have a
full documentary and look how beautiful theland is out there. It's just gorgeous.
So you can also visit their blogwhere you can find more information about

(04:45):
their appearances on like the History channel. So you and I Katie can't go
there for a few days on vacationor anything, but well, Mount Wilson
Ranch only hosts large groups with specialentry in paranormal and research activities, and
maybe the guys can tell us moreabout that, but interest in groups can

(05:06):
do lots of other things. Aswell. When they're on the ranch,
they offer lots of guided or unguidedactivities. Look how beautiful that is.
You can go hiking and mountain biking, horseback riding, trail riding, skywatching.
Oh how about morning yoga in themeadow my eye, that sounds beautiful.

(05:30):
So research groups can reserve and plantheir experience on the ranch. You
know. But for those of uswho can't make it there in person for
whatever reason, why not visit theironline store. It's an Etsy store and
there you can there it is theMount Wilson Ranch. Go to the Etsy
and you can find your little pieceof Mount Wilson Ranch by purchasing one of

(05:54):
their fun products. Yet there's somethingfor everyone they look at. They have
t shirts and cups and glassware andstationery and coasters, all sorts of fun
stuff. So visit Mount Wilson Ranchdot com and shop or learn more about
this interesting place. And I can'twait to talk to our guest to find

(06:14):
out more information about it. It'svery cool, very cool. I got
to order my coffee mug. Yes, was I thinking that's what we need
today? As are Mount Wilson wrenchmugs? Yeah? I know it.
Yeah, really cool though, So, Tara, do you have a Mars
case? Yes, of course.So today's Mars case is a fun case.
It comes to us from Ipswich,Massachusetts, and involves a family of

(06:40):
three, a father, mother,and son. And on February eighth,
nineteen seventy nine, around six fifteenpm, the father left the house to
warm up the car in preparation forgoing out to dinner with his family.
He saw a lighted object hovering oversome trees across the street. When he

(07:00):
went outside, it was approximately aquarter mile away, and he watched the
object as the object started to moveslowly towards him. There's the object that
he drew. He noticed the entireunderside of the object was covered with a
cluster of brilliant white lights. Theobject was disshaped but slightly pointed at one
end. So he got very excited, which I would have too, and

(07:23):
ran into the house to get hiswife and son. The wife came out
and was the next to see theobject. She then noticed the object was
slowly moving towards them. So bothof them saw that, so they both
became very excited and emotional. That'sa big deal. Fearing that the object
would come over their house, andthey were screaming for their son. The

(07:46):
Sun then came out of the houseand saw the object hovering across the road.
It was then that the object startedto move to their left in what
they described as a very light manner, as if it had very little wait.
It seemed to almost sway slightly backand forth, as if it moved
in the light breeze. So getthis, the Sun ran after it down

(08:11):
the road, and he ran untilit's descended slowly behind a hill near an
outcropping of rock. So at thistime they all saw the object give off
a dull, reddish glow, andwhat they said was response to the object's
apparent increase in velocity, So asit was getting ready to get take off,

(08:35):
it got red. So this scaredthem all. The three witnesses then
went into the house and called thepolice. And so a copy of the
police report is also in the file, and you can go to the next
the next one. I think there'sanother picture. So the first picture was

(08:56):
the husband's drawing. This is thepicture the wife drew. So she says
she is not sure that it lookedlike windows were also on the object.
The husband didn't see that. Okay, So they they estimated there's the sun
drew that one the three witnesses,do we know how old the sun was?

(09:18):
The one that he was in highschool. They didn't have his age,
it was redacted out, but hewas a high school student, so
you know, old enough to seethat. So they contacted the police and
there it was on the same day, just a few minutes after it.
And then not six forty eight,this happened at six fifteen, and the

(09:39):
they estimated the size of the objectto be from seventy five to one hundred
feet in diameter. Interesting, youknow that big circle on the Rocky Mountain
Ranch was seventy five feet Oh wow, And it was around the same age
a couple of years later, seventynine years years. Well, the lowest
altitude was twenty five to three fivefeet. It was really low, right

(10:01):
at the top of the trees.And they said the highest altitude was about
fifty feet. So they they watchedit for over a minute as it moved
from southeast to excuse me, southwestto southeast. All three witnesses expressed their
feelings about the craft, which atthis time they were convinced it was a

(10:22):
craft, and all of them toldthe field investigator that they had been excited
and frightened. They were also,you know, concerned that there may be
radiation coming from this object. Butthey also said they were odd by the
beauty of the brilliant white lights thatwere visible on the underside of the object.

(10:43):
I've heard that before. Beautiful manuscript. You know, there's a lot
of people who can't even read thatanymore. Yeah, it's a lot of
people can't write it much. Let'sread it, right, I know.
That's what's neat about these cases,is handwritten. I know. So the
FI classified this as a siggnificant unknownand he there's there's they talked about this

(11:05):
severe emotional reaction to the sighting,and I think there's the next one slide.
Let's see the next one. Chanelle. They this is where they talked
about maybe there was radiation. Theywere excited, panicking, thought the object
would come over the top of them. That was before it moved to the
side. So here is all thedrawings made by all three different individuals.

(11:30):
And on one page it kind oflooks like a shower head, but then
it tilts up on the side andwe see that often in these cases that
these craft will tilt on its sideand then you know, whatever propulsion system
they're using, it it seems likewhatever happens when they tilted the side,
they go like hyper speed or something. Yes, did they see the object

(11:50):
exit? I wonder they just sawit go over an embankment. It went
up around the ridge and then therewere some rocks and it disappeared. The
sun went up there and it overlookeda valley, so when he got to
the top and looked across, hecouldn't find it anywhere, so it disappeared.
So it's just another interesting case thatreferences the psychological and emotional effects that

(12:13):
can happen to experiences, even ifit's just seeing an object in the sky.
But this was very close to themand three credible witnesses, so very
cool. Another fun case in theMars, you know file. So I
hope you all get a chance togo look at those someday with your library
cards. Just unbelievable of those historicalcases. I tell you what, man,

(12:37):
just seeing those police reports and thedrawings and you just spend hours upon
hours through those cases. Well thankyou for doing that. There's a lot
of work to share. Those Ireally appreciate you doing that. Thanks Kitty.
It's fun. I hope you allenjoy it. It's fun, awesome,
hey, I chance him? Allright, Well, anything else we

(12:58):
want talk about? A paranormal pixie? I love that. Thanks for being
here. Well, let's bring inour guests, shall we? All right?
More time than better? All right? So? Jeff Matt Bernie,
owner of Mount Wilson Ranch in Nevada, along with good friend Carl Andresen also
known as Carl Crusher on YouTube,are full time researchers and explorers of the

(13:22):
mysteries of reality, looking to lookinginto UFO sightings, Bigfoot reports, and
locations of high strangeness. Both haveworked extensively with the team at Skinwalker Ranch
and the owner, Brandon Fugel,leading to their appearance on the History Channel
series Beyond Skinwalker Ranch Season one,episode two at Mount Wilson Ranch, and

(13:43):
again with Beyond Skinwalker Ranch season twoand twenty twenty four that's coming up.
So they were episode two, Episodethree was Rocky Mount Ranch, and I'm
so excited for all. There's somebehind the scenes pictures right there, like
Andy and Carl and Jeff right thereand the crew back there it's a lot
of fun. Both Jeff and Carlhave been key research figures and rediscovering Mount

(14:09):
Wilson Ranch and its connection to SkinwalkerRanch. Both were previously owned by Bob
Igelo. Something I really can't waitto talk about. The personally utilized research
in quantum entanglement, human consciousness,various meditation methods and contact protocol as well
as working directly with Native American indigenousteachers to explore ancient locations known for paranormal

(14:31):
phenomena and UFOs. Please welcome tothe show, Jeff and Carl. Thanks
you guys for being here. Hi, thanks for having us, Thank you
for having us. Yes of course, yeah, all right, So Carl,
where are you coming from? Areyou in Utah or Nevada or I'm
in southern Utah So I'm just yeah, I'm just east of Jeff right now,

(14:56):
about three and a half hour drive, okay, just south of Zion
National Park. So it's really beautiful, beautiful that's on the Boocke list.
Yes, and I recognize where youare. Jeff. It looks like you're
in the saloon. Yes, Iam that haunted saloon. So just real
quick, I'm gonna just kick offI had the pleasure in honor of meeting

(15:20):
Jeff and Nick Knack his significant otherin Mount There we are Mount Wilson Raster.
This was what three weeks ago now, I guess it's been two three
weeks ago, and we got lookedat. We lucked out on the weather
because right after we got back,how much snow did you guys? Get
Jeff over three feet and it's snowingright now. Oh my gosh. I

(15:43):
mean, so you literally get snowedin there. I can imagine where you're
like, can't no, we keeppretty, you get out, Okay,
that's good. Okay. But We'resitting there in the saloon and I'm talking
with Nick Knack and there's a bigmirror the salon salon behind us, and
I'm talking to her and I seeon the upper balcony a shadow walk by

(16:07):
up there, and she's watching myeyes follow this person. There were people
there, So let's get into thata little bit. Let's kind of get
into the history Jeff and Carl ofyou know, how you acquired Mount Wilson
Ranch, how long you've been there, and maybe some of those paranormal things
that you've experienced there before we getinto the high strangeness UFO Bob Bigelow stuff

(16:30):
coming up on seventeen years of owningMount Wilson Ranch. Okay, I found
it in a little twenty five centnewspaper listening winds up. Robert Bigelow actually
owned it. You know, alittle bit of negotiations with mister Bigelow and
here we sit. That's amazing.So were you told very much about why

(16:52):
and what Bob Bigelow were doing thereon the ranch at the time or did
they keep you in the dark likeeverybody else. We were pretty in the
dark. I mean he made somecomments to me which at the time didn't
seem believable. I guess you'd say, you know, there's an alien base
under the mountain, there's a portal, there's some different things, you know,

(17:14):
and it was in kind of injoking, but today it sounds a
lot different. So did you haveany experience with high strangeness type of activities
goes, whether it's gohes, UFOsanything before you owned Mount Wilson Rancher Were
you just sort of thrown into this? What was your life like before all

(17:36):
this happened. Well, I comefrom southern New Jersey, so always at
the beach or out in the ocean. There was always a lot of strange
lights or things that you couldn't explain, you know, just a lot of
unexplainable lights and phenomena. Nothing thatI could say what it was. Right,

(17:56):
Did you have a particular interest init or not really until later?
Oh, I Coast to Coast Radiowas one of my favorite shows throughout my
life. So yeah, I've alwaysbeen into it. My dad was into
it. You know, we're intothe wild West, we're into gold mining,
just the whole West. So you'relike explorers and curiosity seekers even before

(18:19):
you own Mount Wilson Ranch. Whichis curious to me because I happened to
believe that all of us on thisplanet have you know, our past or
destiny, what we're supposed to goout and do. And apparently you are
where you are for a reason.And so how did you and Carl meet

(18:40):
and how did all this transpire?Oh, there's there's a book by Jacques
Vallet, and there's a picture inthere of the front of the ranch here
that was displayed in the New YorkPost. Steve Greenwall, I believe it
was who that was the Carl greenStreet. Green Street. So they had

(19:00):
a they had this picture in therethree times and they kept saying, this
is from Skinwalker Ranch, This isfrom Skinwalker Ranch. Meanwhile, you know
it clearly states and it says righton it it's from Mount Wolfson Ranch.
So I looked at the end ofthis article and I see Carl's name listed
at the end. My daughter knowsthe internet. Well, she made some

(19:26):
you know, contacts with Carl.Within three hours. Carl was back to
me like, what is this place? You know? He basically he didn't
even know anything about Mount Wilson,So, you know, basically, I
yeah, he's the guy. Heknows. Do you think they were trying
to keep that under wraps for areason and kind of directing all things to

(19:48):
Skinwalker and or That's what we've comedown to now. You know. I
didn't say anything about it for fifteenyears of owning it, you know,
and then I finally opened up withCarl, Carl and let this out.
I knew a little bit, butI didn't know what we know. Now
let's get into what we know.Now. What do you know now,

(20:15):
Carl? You want to kick inon some of this, what you've learned
since we've made a connection. Yeah. I mean, holy smokes, we've
come a long ways. So,like when Jeff and them first called me,
like everybody else, I really hadno idea that there was a second
location and that, you know,immediately some people and online. All I

(20:36):
could turn up was that, likethe people from the TV show Ghost Adventures
had gone up there. Jeff andthem had invited them up one time,
or let them go up to filmone episode. But I don't know that
that necessarily went that great, andit's not like a long term commitment to
the researching the location. It wasjust kind of like come up for a
day and then gone right Jeff,Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

(20:59):
So you know, all of asudden, these pictures are showing up
on all these articles, and atthe time I was kind of like helping
the New York Post get some information, mostly because they were doing a hit
piece on some of my friends,trying to debunk some of my friends when
I knew better and that the focusof what they were going after and those

(21:23):
articles was kind of misdirected. Andthen in the midst of that, well,
I was trying to help steer thatship back on track. The uh
you know those that photo got usedincorrectly. Jeff got in touch with me
and his daughter did Jordan, andto me, it was just mind blowing
that that they were able to keepa property secret for over a decade,

(21:48):
for that long, and then notonly that before him, how the MX
missile program was up there, archaeologistswere up there, and then it's there's
so much evident that Howard Hughes wasup there, and I mean we can
dig into the really old history thatgoes back clear before Area fifty one was
even created, and wow, andthat a lot of it ties into like

(22:11):
right before the Roswell crash happened,and the dates and the names, and
the biggest thing is like not justRobert Bigelow and the Skinwalker Ranch team being
there, but who was in thephotographs that we uncovered at the ranch with
him? Right? They're all tiedinto the psychic spy program, these directed

(22:36):
energy weapons patents and then like JacquesVilla and you name it, like the
who's who of the UFO community andwhatnot. Right, And that's a thing
that you know, Jeff and Iconnected on too, because you know,
in doing the research on the RockyMountain Ranch and going through doctor Leo Sprinkles
files and the original A profiles onthe Colorado Ranch. I come across this

(23:00):
photo. Some of them I don'thave them in the studio, but some
of them were taken actually out MountWilson Ranch before I knew the connections.
But Chanelle, if we can bringup that picture of that group of people,
I think I have the front ofthe picture, in the back of
the people, and this is toCarl's point, some of these players really,
I mean, we have the likesof there's doctor Leo Sprinkle there,

(23:21):
Bob Bigelow has got his arm around, Linda Moulton. How we have Greer
there, mccabee's there. Let's see. The back of the picture has all
the names, which is really kindof cool. Yeah, there I go,
Stephen Greer, George Lamb, Brucemccabee, Robert Bigelow, Linda Howe,
Leo Sprinkle, we even have theRockefellers and some of these people.

(23:41):
So I don't know, Jeff andCarl, what do you know about these
players and what do you believe theywere researching there and what were they up
to? What are some of therumors when that photograph was taken? Is
really interesting. I believe that wastaken in nineteen ninety four, and you

(24:03):
know it was at the Rockefeller Ranch. And what I know of this,
and it's all speculation, is thatthese individuals all formed and were part of
a group called the Aviary that waspart of the actual UFO research and recovery
team that was going around to allthese sites that dated back clear back to

(24:26):
World War Two to look for whatwas still there. Is that the same
avery that Richard Dodey is a partof. Yeah, so all of them.
I mean there's a lot of peoplenot even in this photo, like
how put Off and get Green anda lot of those guys that are in
that group, and this is justlike a small part of them. It

(24:48):
looks like that posed for the photoof this day. But even that's interesting,
like they all kind of split offinto their own little compartmentalized focuses of
what they did, you know,right, right, So when did you
start really researching and doing a lotof investigations on the Mount Wilson Ranch,
Carl? Pretty much what it's beenabout two years now, right, Jeff,

(25:11):
Yeah, coming up on two yearsyep. Yeah, So a lot
of it was just starting with thebasics, like what was really there and
what's not, Like, how couldwe match what's in the books to what
we find, and then talking toother locals there in the community and people
that live up on the mountain thathave been there for decades, you know,

(25:32):
And when all of those dots startedto connect, It's like the more
we kept digging, like literally andhistorically through the data, the more the
dots kept connecting, and it gotmore and more intriguing. So yeah,
now we've got two whole seasons onthe History Channel going and a lot more
going on. Do you guys havethe same kind of concerns about digging as

(25:55):
they did on Skinwalker Ranch? Youknow? And also to that point,
I know people worry about health effectsif you dig. I mean they had
the swelling of the brain and otherthings. Do you, guys, Jeff,
both to you and Jeff, youboth can speak to this. Do
you have concerns about any of thosetypes of things that are on the property.

(26:18):
Not at this point. I meanwe are actively digging, We've dug
and we're gonna dig more, youknow, we have we're looking for something.
Yes, yeah, we don't haveany hesitations, and we also have
a really open door policy to thepoint that, like on the website,
we need to update it because whenwe first created that website, we were

(26:41):
moving really quick with a lot ofchanges since then we've created it's like forty
dollars get a day pass to gohike around and take pictures and see the
place for like the daytime, forlike just one hundred and fifty bucks,
you can go up and run aroom for the night, so really easy

(27:02):
and accessible. Jeff and I didn'tespecially Jeff didn't want to do it something
where people couldn't go see for themselves. Like we don't fake anything and we
don't hide anything. If people wantto come and do their own experiments,
they totally can come and do thatthrough the patreonch we're actively actually looking I
mean, that's what we could reallysay about this. We're we're in full

(27:22):
research mode for what we're capable of. And what are you looking for?
I know there's gold on the ranch. Is that what you're talking about?
Or is there some paranormal stuff too? Believe it or not. The gold
is like a sidebar right now.We're looking for. I mean, we've
been directed you know, meta materials. That's exactly what we've been told we

(27:45):
have to find you know, we'vebeen told it's here. It's a big
blow. Find it, you know, or what do you think he knows?
I mean you said he taught thatthere was a spaceship under the ground,
And what else can can you share? Again? You see, this
is beyond me in that sense.There's something under there. You know.
The ground penetrating radar from season oneobviously shows there's something an array of some

(28:11):
sort. So Jeff has had acouple of experiences, first of all,
and then when I've gone up there, I've had experiences and kind of zeroed
in on a particular spot in thelower meadow that seems to be transmitting or
pulsing like a frequency or some radiationout of the ground. And so as

(28:32):
that has escalated into further and furtherexperiments, not only has the paranormal phenomena
coincided with it, along with evenUFO sidings and some of it that we've
captured on camera that's going to comeout probably in June on the TV show.
But there we got information from adisgruntled former employee of Bigelow that leaked

(28:56):
us photographs that sent to us asatellite image that is actually labeled that there
was an abandoned like an alien miningoperation underneath Mountain Wilson. And so we've
since then brought in experts that havedone magnetometry reading's ground penetrating radar, and
we get a highly barrassed object,a giant triangular object about two hundred feet

(29:22):
down under the lower meadow that isreacting to our experiments. And so there's
something there still underground. And that'sall coincides and fits with what Jacques Valet
talked about in his books, evenin his fictional stories and all of that,
that there was an underground tunnel systemwith a UFO, a giant UFO

(29:47):
underground that would literally come and gointerdimensionally underneath that mountain. Wow. So
I think you answered Tucson Muffon's question, who leave you that information? It
was sort of like a disgruntled Xand plow. Thank goodness for those and
been confessions. Now. I youknow, in talking with Jeff, is

(30:11):
there rumor to be these like freezersunderground or any other types of things underground
and what perhaps might of those thepurpose for those have been Have you heard
rumors or speculation about that? Well, there's been a lot of stories about
what mister Bigelow was doing here andwhat he had here. I mean,

(30:33):
when the film crews were here,Carl happened to be outside with me,
and there's a gentleman from one ofthe utility companies around here that pulled up
and he got to tell Carl astory that I had told Carl originally when
I met him. And this guy, you know, he's like, are
the freezers still there? Oh?And we both said, you know,

(30:55):
well what you know what about thesefreezers? And he basically said, oh,
mister biggew that guy's a nut,you know, blah blah blah.
He said he was going to flashfreeze these entities when he caught them,
put him in a spreezer, andIguana's way. Carl was standing right there
with me. Yeah, they hada plan. They had a plan to
use some kind of a radar systemlike an EMP system to capture a UFO

(31:17):
and then they were gonna flash freezethe alien entities or whatever in these freezers
and haul them straight to Area fiftyone. And that was the plan.
And it sounds crazy until you seewhat we've dug out of the ground up
there that we're not allowed to showhow far away are you the area of
fifty one seventy miles seventy five milesas the bird would fly not that far

(31:41):
just to the west of you,then south into the west. Okay,
that's not as stretch. Then Ihave a visual in my mind of like
Proton payaks with Ghostbuster traps, exceptfor a large scale, and they're going
to trap the extraterrestrial and put themin the freezers. And who's to say
they didn't do it in they're underground. I mean, can you imagine if

(32:05):
the two of you dig up thesefreezers and oh, I mean there's our
disclosure right there, two hundred feetunderground. Though that's pretty deep, you'd
think, how did it get there? You know, that's deep. It's
like Oak Island deep, right,Really it is, like it's very similar
to comparisons. That was one ofthe things that has been so shocking to
me going up there is the Ifeel like comparing directly across the Cursooak Island.

(32:31):
It's even more intriguing because Jeff hasfound these ancient artifacts like pottery and
spearheads, and the indigenous cultures thatwe've uncovered in the area that date back
to say that maybe what's underground ispart of this archaic tunnel system that's been
there for maybe tens of thousands ofyears as part of a ritual site.

(32:53):
So who knows how long this hasbeen there. You know, it's not
just Bigelow. I mean as farback as the written records go, there's
been people up there doing ceremonies andstone circles and all kinds of esoteric stuff.
You hold those up to the lightwhere I was there, Jeff was
holding it up to the sun,and because I mean they're gorgeous. Can

(33:14):
you speak a little bit, eitherCarl or Jeff about the indigenous people that
you know inhabited the region. Yeah, we have, you know, worked
with the archaeologists and other Native Americansas part of a group called the Reindigenizing
Minds Project, and basically to tryand connect the dots between the ancient petroglyphs

(33:37):
and the archaeology and written history,but also the oral traditions and the true
passed down lineage and stories from theNative Americans themselves instead of it just being
told from the white man's perspective.And when we match all that together and
go out there with this, goto these places where the phenomena exists or

(33:59):
seems to exist. What we findand what we've recently uncovered a lot about
is over in Mount Wilson Ranch,and in that area was inhabited by a
collection of people, mostly the Payute, the Northern and Southern Paiute, and
then there was the Ghoshen tribe andthe Anasazi and the Shoshone that all came

(34:19):
in and traded together around that area. But there's this whole movement of called
the ghost Dance movement that was startedby this shaman called Wovoca, and Wovoca
when he saw that the world waschanged and headed towards like destruction because of
modern progress, he initiated this sacredceremony where they would put these stone circles

(34:44):
on the ground and the tribe woulddo a dance around the stone circle in
a clockwise way, and Wovoca wouldstand in the center. And the story
is that he would literally teleport andtime travel like a portal into the future
to try and help our generation tostop calamities and to stop the world from

(35:06):
ending by helping people reconnect with theearth through nature and through these traditional ways.
And we find these stone circles andartifacts, and we know that Wovoka
and his teachings and influence was allthe way up through the region and would
have covered Mount Wilson. So it'sreally interesting that the ghost dance rituals and

(35:29):
all the world traditions to that matcheswith the supernatural experiences in these sightings of
the shaman that seemed to occur atthe ranch as well. Right, wow,
are there any traditions I know atSkinwalker Ranch they have the tradition of
the youth and the Cherokee and sortof like this. You know, some
people don't even like to say theword skinwalker. Is there any traditions of

(35:52):
that kind of activity there at MountWilson. Yeah, all of that existed
and was a prom across all ofthe tribes of the Desert Southwest. The
tradition of the shape shifter phenomena,specifically the Skinwalker one, is mostly associated
to the Navajo, but those tribeswere definitely communicating and trading all the way

(36:15):
across the southwest into Nevada, sothey knew about that and it would have
been a part of it. Right. Well, can you talk about how
large the ranch is? I mean, how many acres is it? And
do these anomalies or do these thingshappen all over the ranch or are they
in isolated pockets in the where peopleare is where you notice it mostly,

(36:42):
So the main area is you know, there's a few main buildings up in
the western part of the property.Property is still over one hundred acres.
Oh wow. So but mainly,like if we have like the paranormal,
it's in the buildings for sure.You know, we've had people camped out.
Are they freaked out while they're campingout? So's it must be like

(37:04):
a property wide thing. You know, a lot of a lot of the
sightings of the shaman have been outsidein the woods around the property, but
also in the buildings, Like itdoesn't really matter for him. So I
keep looking behind Jeff's shoulder up onthat balcony. You never know what we're

(37:25):
going to see on cameras, soyou guys keep keep a big experience the
whole time. We're going to seesomething. I just know it. And
that was funny for you, Katie, because we've had that exact experience what
you did. It's happened multiple times. I mean it's common. Yeah,
And you said back up in thatthat well, first of all tell us

(37:45):
about that beautiful piece of artwork.Where did that come from? Where did
you acquire that beautiful saloon back piece? There? So this piece back behind
me, This was all here whenI purchased the property. This thing is
an original from the eighteen forties,eighteen fifties somewhere. You know. It

(38:06):
has stories of coming around the cap, making it to the west. This
is maybe the fourth stop for it. Wow. You know, they put
a lot of time and effort intobuilding this. Everything around in here,
around this backbar right really extensive.But this was all done before me,

(38:27):
you know, just like the restof the building, the main building,
the guest house. You know.Again we're trying to figure that out now,
like who exactly put this together?You know, we have some names.
The names are friends with, youknow, like best friends with Howard
Hughes. They did all the workfor Howard Hughes. Yeah, can you
talk me a little bit about whatyou've d about Howard Hughes. And when

(38:47):
we went on our hike, Thankgoodness, Jeff saved us. He's like
here put in the GPS and hadyou not come to our restaurant, we'd
still be walking around out there.Lost it was a nice day out there
though. It was beautiful. Itwas beautiful. But there's Howard Hughes's runway
in the distance of there. Butcan you talk a little bit about what
you've uncovered about Howard Hughes and thehistory there. Well, it's called Williams

(39:10):
Landing Strip, and Dick Williams wasone of the previous owners. Dick Williams
owned a excavating contracting company in LasVegas in one of his main clients was
Howard Hughes. So that the infrastructurethat was built up here back in the
fifties into the sixties was pretty extensivefor in the middle of nowhere. You

(39:35):
know, everything here, you know, power included, was brought here.
You know, we're thirty miles awayfrom anything. So somebody put some money
into this to get this, youknow, a viable livable place. Yeah,
that's a that's a big, oldwide runway for large airplanes and it

(39:58):
goes in the path the direction perfectlyfor somebody taking off and landing that's leaving
that runway and flying straight over intoArea fifty one and landing and taking off
like they're transporting something or stuff.So and the connections there are really interesting
because the original the oldest owner thatwe have on record so far that we've

(40:21):
found is a guy named E.L. Norez, and he bought the
property with his wealthy wife who wasfrom Los Angeles. She was an actress's
stage actress, and they bought theranch back in the nineteen thirties. And
then he started a mining collective inpoh where he bought up all the rights
to dig underground in like the wholecounty there basically, and then within like

(40:45):
two years, all of a sudden, he was a state senator. And
then right after that Area fifty oneis created and the whole roswell things suddenly
occurred. And then the other thingI just want to jump to, that's
another dot that connects is that whenwe have all the pictures of Big Low
and his team up there at theranch, like they go back to see

(41:06):
what's still there, those photos wereall taken in nineteen ninety six, which
is the exact same year that themeta materials showed up at Art Bell's desk
in Nevada. That's all part ofthis whole US Congressional hearing right now about
crash recovered materials that they need toreverse engineer, So I think they may

(41:27):
have gone back up to Mount WilsonRanch recovered more of that material from underground
and smuggled some of it out bypretending it came from Roswell to get it
into Art Bell's hands, into LindaMoulton Howe's hands, And the first person
to test it was Travis Taylor frombefore Skinwalker or anything, clear back when

(41:49):
he was still in the defense intelligencestations. So the whole thing seems like
a conspiracy to smuggle meta materials outinto the public. It really does.
And we're learning one more. Imean, just on the show about you
know who Travis Taylor is, whathis connections are. And it bankes the
question, doesn't it Like, Let'sgo there for a minute, both for

(42:13):
Jeff and you, Carl. Let'sgo to what you guys think is going
on with the congressional hearings. Whynow, why is this coming out?
What do you think the endgame is? Let's talk about that for a minute.
What do you think Jeff, Let'stake this one. This is a
tough one. I mean, Iwish I really knew, you know,

(42:36):
I'm in it right now. We'recurious as to what the health effects are
of maybe like living here, havethere be something under here? We don't
know exactly. I mean, wecould go down a rabbit hole and tell
you his stories upon stories of likeyou were saying, like what's underneath the
here? You know, we've beentold stories of unbelievable things under here in

(43:00):
the chambers that are down there.But again, we don't know until we
dig. You know. That's probablythe easiest way that we could say it.
You know, it's kind of astraightforward thing. We know Bigelow and
his team when they were here,there's a bulldozer that's over at Skinwalker Ranch.
Now you know, we know thatthat bulldozer for a fact, was

(43:20):
buried in that meadow that I broughtyou down to, and it was buried
to its seat. So what werethey doing burying a bulldozer? You know
what what were they doing? Itdoesn't make any sense? So you know,
what is it exactly? It's either, I mean, we have so
many different theories about it, butI don't know. I can kind of

(43:44):
give you my big guess if youwant to hear my heart what I think
happens. Yes, I'll give youlike the readers dies version. I think
that what happened was when il Norastarted the mining collective, when he was
going in there looking for gold,which absolutely is gold, and Jeff and
I have found that, but theevidence is and what we've dug past the

(44:04):
gold barrier and that gold layer.They were digging way past the gold layer
too, like they didn't even careabout it. So they were underground clear
back in the nineteen thirties. AndI think that they ran into something that
Bob Lazar talks about saying that oneof the UFOs that he saw at Area
fifty one was from an archaeological digthat was something like twenty million years old.

(44:28):
And I think that El Norez andthe mining collective they ran into an
underground lavavant tube system or a keyvesystem that the indigenous people had there for
thousands of years before them. Thatthey were worshiping something underground, which is
why we have all those native artifactsall over the mountain and the ritual sites.
And I think that they got accessinto that tunnel system and they actually

(44:52):
captured some kind of a craft orrelic technology from underground that we would say
was a US. I think maybethey came up with roswell or they planted
Roswell to say that these things flyfrom outer space and came down from the
sky, when really, like inNew Mexico, when really they got it

(45:12):
from an archaeological site underground. Soit's kind of like try to get everybody
to look this way and look upwhen it really happened over here underground,
Like it's like an opposite thing.And so I think they recovered something,
and it makes sense that they justhauled it down those roads short eighty miles
away and put it at the facilityat Groom Lake and that, and then

(45:34):
they built Area fifty one around itright there. It doesn't make any sense
to haul an entire UFO from NewMexico all the way to Area fifty one
on trucks and not get seen.Makes sense to take it from Mount Wilson
down anyway. I think that theyrecovered a whole bunch of material there,
maybe even biologics, and then thatturned into program after program. We have

(45:59):
the MX, the Project Bambi,the MX Missile Program, Ronald Reagan's archaeological
team, and then all of asudden, Bigelow up there. And when
Bigelow's up there, the meta materialsshows up again. And where did they
say the meta material came from.They blame it on Roswell again, you
know, and Jacques Bellat even saidthey were going to do that in his

(46:19):
book, pretend that it came fromRoswell to hide where it really happened in
Nevada. So I think that's what'sreally happened and what it's reached the point
now to where all of those peoplelike how put Off, Tim Ryan,
all these guys Kit Green that areworking on understanding the meta material and how

(46:40):
it works, have somehow lost accessto being able to study it. So,
like Eric Davis and help put Off, when they try to go back
to the DA, all of asudden, the head of the DA can't
even get access, and that's whatcame out in the Eric Davis memo,

(47:00):
and all of a sudden they can'tget back in and see the UFO evidence
to even study that. They've beencut off too. And so now they're
like going to lose their funding,lose their jobs, and lose their information
and access to data. And sothey have to run to Congress and try
to whistle blown out. So Ikind of think that's what's going on.
Makes it makes a lot of sense. Go ahead, Yeah, well I

(47:22):
just so, do you think therewas a crash at Mount Wilson. Then
in the meta material that you're lookingfor, there's are there pieces of it
just all about and you just haveto look forward because I've seen little tiny,
a little tiny chip of one.I think that Linnimal and Hall had
one time. I've seen them,you know, not personally, but apparently

(47:44):
they did a lot of drilling inthat metal as well, so you know,
drill fragments. That piece looks likeit could be drill fragments, you
know, piece, you know,something if they hit something down there.
The story is that it like wasa fragment that was flaked off of the
whole. And this idea that theyalso recovered biologic material we immediately think of

(48:04):
like bodies, alien bodies and pilotsof a craft. The biologics might actually
be that the whole of the craftand the material itself portrays sort of like
it's infused with a sort of geneticsor DNA and has a consciousness response to
it when they test it. Interesting, that would make sense because we hear

(48:25):
that the that you can interface withthe craft to fly it right, that
it has a consciousness that connects toyour consciousness. Yep, so that that
would make a lot of sense tome. Let's talk about tunneling what have
you. What are the rumors you'veheard about tunnels underground? Do they do?
You speculate that perhaps they run,you know, somewhere through the ranch

(48:49):
and if so, where do theygo? Well, if we were going
to make a guess, I meanwe've had we call them the witches,
but they were psychics, I guesswe'd say, Carl right that that came
in and they actually did a seanceand they came down to As soon as
they're done, they're like in themiddle of it, they're like, how
the caverns that are under here?There's caverns under here? You know,

(49:13):
we've talked to, like Carl said, a whistleblower. I guess you would
call them, and that gave ussome information, and they said, well,
when you guys get down into thefirst level of these tunnels, put
on your hazmat suits and and puton your respirators. Wow, because you're
gonna, you know, enter intosome wild stuff down there. You know.

(49:36):
Again, we they've taken measurements.There's something putting energy out you know,
we had a my best experience ever. Here was this wild noise in
the middle of the night, youknow, and again it we didn't know
what it was. It came andit went. Nick Knack was here for
that. Years later, during thecourse of getting this in information from these

(50:00):
people, one of these audio fileswas the exact noise that we heard.
Oh wow, I mean then theexplanation of what this noise is, you
know, would say that whatever thisis is active, so it's coming and
going. Let's talk about that caveand here in a minute, I'll have

(50:22):
Chanel run a little video clip.But tell us about that corner. Well,
first of all, there's a pictureof the cave from a distance.
I think it's just titled Cave Chanel. If you want to pop up the
other there it is. So there'sthe cave from a little bit of a
distance. But Jeff, you weretelling me back in the back of that
cave, you were standing there,and can you tell everybody what happened there

(50:44):
what you filed. One day,Carl was basically doing he's a YouTuber,
so he's out there doing one ofhis YouTube videos and I'm just hanging out
in the back watching him do histhing. This energy came through the floor,
right through my feet, right throughmy body. It was like a
pulse, and I stood there andI just like took it in. I
was like, what was that?And then number two, it pulses and

(51:08):
hits me, you know. Carlthen takes a look at me because he
felt it too. And then thethird pulse came and it was like enough
that I just bolted out the doorof that cave, you know, tossing
out there, because it was justa strange feeling pulsing. I mean,
so there's a possibility that either there'scaverns under there, or maglev train or

(51:35):
something is running below your feet.Now. I have a little video clip
there when we were in the caveand Jeff is like, hey, like
kick on this and you'll hear thatit sounds hollow underneath. So if we
can run na chanal, that wouldbe great. Oh wow, crazy,

(52:00):
let's try again. I say,yeah, I saw it. Yeah,
oh it played oh yeah, okay, but it sounded really hollow. He
was kicking it and it sounded justlike a hollow drum. All right,

(52:22):
So it makes you wonder what's onntoday. We're already this this is flying
by. We're almost time for breakhere. When we get back, and
I forgot to. I usually giveour guests heads up, but they're gonna
have to just play off the cuff. But we do a little game called
an Evening on Earth with an extraterrestrialwhere you pick a location where you'd meet,
what food you would serve, asong or music you'd like the et

(52:44):
to hear, what movie you wouldrecommend in what one question? So you
have just a few minutes during breakto come up with your answers, and
we'll play that game when we getback from break, So we'll see you
on the other side. I hearda dog bark. Is that your dog?
Tarra? Yeah? What's the nameO D? But it's it's here.

(53:05):
He is, like, I havethat's O D. That is the
coolest dog on the planet. Youlook that red hair. Jeff, What,
Jeff, what does ODI stand for? Well, technically she's O D
D and she's outdoor dog when aD D. We had that conversation.

(53:31):
I keep I was telling Jeff,I'm like, I have a D H
D B q R S t Ub w x y Z. I get
that. I think we all haveit. If we're don't you, Yes,
I do, man it. Let'sbe a common trait to this topic.

(53:53):
I think I don't know, right, musicians, artists and a d
h D people. Okay, solet's play an evening on Earth with an
extraterrestrial. Let's see who we're wegoing to start with. We'll start with
the top there. We'll go withCarl first. So Carl, first of
all, what type of et areyou going to meet with? Reptilian A

(54:15):
Gray or who who are you goingto have this meal with? I think
it would be cool to meet withthe future type time travelers, even if
that is the Grays or whoever's controllingthe girls, would be really cool,
all right? And where on Earthwould you like to meet them? Anywhere
on the planet? Well, Ican't say Mount Wilson because I think Jef's

(54:36):
going to pick that one, soI'll leave that for him. So I'll
say here near my house is aplace called the water Canon Water Canyon Resort
and Winery by Zaion National Park.It's like a beautiful resort and vineyard,
and it would be like a reallygood repus and representation of our dimension and
planet in a beautiful place that isrelaxing and nice to be able to sit

(55:00):
and enjoy some of the nice thingsin life. That's a great answer,
is that somewhere close to wasn't there? Was it in Zion or was it
Arches? It it was somewhere inUtah that they had this like monument or
something that was discovered. Whatever happenedto that? Do you know what I'm
talking about? Yeah, that monoliththing that popped about in the desert.
Yeah, that was over kind ofby a canal about an hour east of

(55:23):
me. Yeah. I wanted togo out there, and then it was
missing by the time I had theirit went missing. Somebody took it or
did it vanish? I mean,it just disappeared. Yeah, there's just
like a triangle in the sandstone nowwhere it was and nothing's there now.
That's wild, And I think therewas some like through a move on and

(55:43):
other channels, I saw like thesecolumns of lights that were photographed in that
same in Elbert County, Colorado.We had a man in his significant other
on hardly and they're over by thecanyons in Franktown, Colorado and a big
column just like a scene in Utah, Like, what's with these columns.

(56:07):
It's so unusual anyway not to getoff the topic. Okay, so what
food are you going to serve thisextraterrestrial from the future. Oh, let's
just do pizza. I mean pepperonipizza is super easier, right, already
loves pizza, love it? Okay? And what music would you like to

(56:28):
expose them to? What kind ofmusic or song? I think it would
be really fun to listen to liketimeless classics and stuff that represent different genres,
so kind of like have a samplingof different cultures would be really cool.
That's a really good answer, becauseI think, yeah, musically,
you can learn a lot about thewhole planet Earth, like what's our what's

(56:52):
our mixtape? What's on your mixtape? And what's on mine? Yeah?
Oh yeah, I wonder if theymusic on other planets what that would sound
like? Maybe? Just like okay, and then what was the start?

(57:12):
And what movie would you want towatch with the e friend? Close Encounters
of the Third Kind is just sucha classic because it has so much to
do with everything that Jeff and Ihave been doing over the last like year
or so trying to replicate Jacques Ballet'sexperiments, which were all you know,
emulated in that movie by Steven Spielberg, and so I think it would be

(57:32):
fun to watch with him, andit would be kind of like a comedy
to watch together compared to the realthing. Yea, how close are we
really? And it begs the question, what did Jacques Vlet know about Mount
Wilson Ranch? I wonder? Youknow, Yeah, we found his projectors,
you know, we found his lightand sound projectors and got him working
again, and we got results whenwe used him, too cool. So

(57:57):
maybe some of that film has tiesto Mount Wilson Rash that we're unaware of.
That's really interesting. Okay, youget one question to ask your ET
buddy, what one question would youask? How long have you been interacting
in my life? Like? Howfar back? Like I would want to
know about certain experiences in my childhoodand have some validation to know if that

(58:19):
was or Oh cool, all right, we're going to get to that because
I'm curious now what those are.I'm sure we get to Jeff's answered.
Okay, Jeff, so what typeof ET are you meeting with? Oh?
I'm going to go right underneath andI'm going to go right to the
slee stack. The sleeve stack.Yeah, I'm going back to lost days

(58:39):
and what I'm projecting is underneath theme cool. All right? And where
where are you going to meet withyour extraterrestrial? Like Carl said, We're
going to hang out on the topof Mount Wilson in the in the dark,
in the dark. And what foodare you gonna serve? Well,

(59:01):
Carl got me on the pizza,so I'm gonna have to say some pork
girl egg and cheese if you knowwhat that is. But it's a new
Jersey thing, believe it or not, I don't know. I mean I
learned about all sorts of different dishesI had Paul tell me about or no,
who was it was Canada? Itwas Jason Gillomet. He was telling

(59:23):
me about these Canadian cheese and thecurds, the curds in it. Yes,
So okay, now I got twonew things I got to try.
What music are you gonna play,Jeff, We're gonna listen to some pink
pink Floyd watch the Stars? Nice? Perfect? And what movie you can't

(59:46):
pick? Close Encounters? Yea,he got me on that. I'm not
a big movie buff, but thatwas my favorite movie. And that was
that would be it. But I'mgonna say I if I'm going to go
into my favorite movie, let's gointo Convoy, a little trucker action back
to the day. Anybody mentioned convoyin a long time? And you got

(01:00:15):
to play the song too, right, you know it's a convoy. Great?
That is great? All right.What one question do you have for
the eh take? Can you takeme to your underworld? Okay, so
you think there may be living livingunderground? Yeah, I've got to.

(01:00:37):
You know, I look into everythingmy whole life. Everything's been pointed up.
Everything tells you to look up,Look up, look up. You
know. If I'm going to listento mister Bigelow, and you know,
I think he's a little more knowledgethan a lot of us. You know,
he points out there right beneath you. Look. You know, you're
right under our noses. There.You guys have it. Okay, everybody

(01:01:00):
forget the what's up? We arenow move on, look down, let's
down, look down. Oh mygod, that's funny. All right.
Thanks. Those are excellent answers,and it kind of tells us a little
bit more about you guys personally.So, Carl, I'd like to ask
you about your early experiences. Itsounds like you had some. Yeah,

(01:01:23):
So I had to share what youwould classify as an abduction experience when I
was like eleven years old over ata friend's house where him and I were
both basically woke up in the nightand when I woke up. I've only
really fully told this story on anotherpodcast that hasn't even come out yet,
so you guys are getting kind ofscoop on it. But oh, thanks

(01:01:45):
for sharing. Yeah, but heuh, Like, when I woke up,
we decided to sleep downstairs in thelower area in this living room where
I had this big projection TV thatwe thought was cool, and so we
were watching TV and turned it off, went to bed, and when I
woke up, I looked over andmy friend was already like sitting fully upright

(01:02:06):
and like he was like trying toscream out loud, but there was no
sound coming out, and there wasthis entity like down at his ankles trying
to grab his legs through the sleepingbag, like trying to grab a hold
of him. And so then Istarted panicking because at the same time this

(01:02:27):
all happened like so fast, youknow, I looked down and there was
a second one that is doing thesame thing, trying to grab at my
legs and my ankles, but it'slike their hands are like staticky and they're
like going through my legs, likeit can't really get a hold or a
grip, but it's trying. Andbehind these two, where the hallway is

(01:02:52):
supposed to be that would go downto the bedrooms in this bathroom, is
just this giant, like a spinningtunnel that looks like a water slide going
down into the dark. Like there'sthis black tunnel going down with this spinning
energy, like smoke around it,kind of like oily smoke looking stuff.
And then the weirdest part is behindthese two entities, up on the side

(01:03:15):
of this spinning opening is a thirdone that was taller and it sounds crazy,
but it had like this magic wandlooking thing just literally like out of
Harry Potter in its hand, andit was like taller than the other two
and looked different. And when Inoticed that third one, it was like

(01:03:37):
all of a sudden, lights out, And next thing I know, it's
not like I fell asleep. It'slike all of a sudden, I realize
I'm like opening my eyes coming outof the daze, and I'm looking up
at something I don't understand, likethis weird wooden thing with this metal thing.
And it took me a second Irealized now, all of a sudden,
I'm upstairs, underneath the kitchen table, and I'm looking at the bottom

(01:04:00):
of the kitchen table and I couldn'tand I don't remember moving or going up
there. My friend is there,and he's under the table too, and
he's also already awake and looking aroundconfused, and immediately he started crying and
we ran outside out into the backyard, and we both remembered all of it,
like what they looked like, whathappened, and we sat there and

(01:04:24):
talked about it, all freaked out. And that was like my first experience.
And then after that it was morelike weird shadow figures and sleep paralysis
incidents for me, Like in mylife growing up, off and on that
would happen occasionally and still even inmy adulthood now once in a while,
but most of it. When I'vetalked to my friend again, he remembers

(01:04:47):
all of that, but he nothingever happened to him after that, according
to him, So I don't know, but that was my first big one
Yeah, wow, did you talkto your parents about this at all?
I kind of tried, but Igrew up very like what you would consider
an orthodox Mormon religious perspective, andso to me, the whole thing,

(01:05:12):
like to go to my parents andgo to church leaders and things, or
to go to my family was allgoing to get packaged up like demons like
I had got like, which meantlike I was tormented by it for a
long time because I thought it meantthat I had done something wrong, or
that that meant that I was abad kid, and so that really that
kind of messed with me for awhile. I thought maybe I had done

(01:05:35):
something, you know, that hadattracted these this to happen to me.
I've matured since then, and Itotally understand all of this way more differently.
In fact, I'm way more proactiveto where I'm doing all this consciousness
and meditation training to try and likego to their front door and knock and
see what's up rather than wait forthem to come to me type of a

(01:05:57):
thing. So I take a differentapproach all the other Now you bring up
some really good points. Yeah,a lot to unpack right here. But
first and foremost i'd like to talka little bit about this hitchhiker phenomenon that
Skinwalkers at the Pentagon kind of coinedthe phrase, or at least I talk
about that hitchhiker phenomenon. Question numberone for both of you guys, do

(01:06:23):
you or did you compartmentalize the differenttypes of activity, because when we're talking
about these high strangeness ranch locations,we run the gamut of phenomena right from
the paranormal to the UFOs to thecryptids, which I also want to talk
talk about. But when did youconnect those? If you connect those?

(01:06:43):
And also do you feel like Italked to Jeff here at the beginning of
the show that these earlier experiences maybeit was targeted more towards you, Carl
than say your friend. And areyou were you set on a course that
you're continuing on to this day anddo you feel like that's the case?

(01:07:03):
Yeah, I'll just keep going.Since I just told that story to answer
that, it totally has unfolded tothe point that like even just me talking
about Wovoca and the ghost dance earlierand how that all ties in to me
is now part of this synchronicity thathas unfolded all the way back to when
my Native American friend Roger, fromthe project that we work on together,

(01:07:28):
when he started trying to get meto understand the ghost dance and things and
what was going on in Nevada.He finally sent me a picture of Chief
Wovoca, and when I saw it, it was like a PTSD moment for
me, where all the hair andmy neck stood up because it was just
like the shadow figures that would appearin my bedroom as a kid, this

(01:07:48):
man with the hat, this bigbrimmed hat and a tall hat, and
it was like looking at a photoof the real man that would come and
get me and when I was akid. And the fact that now all
the petroglyphs and where I've been goinginto these ancient locations and the stone circles
and spirals I've been obsessed with forthree years, and how I wound up

(01:08:09):
at Mount Wilson Ranch, this ancientsite. All that synchronicity is to me
is just like a symphony and aflow that I'm writing right now. It's
just like a music that I'm goingalong with with the universe and where it
takes me and answering all these questionsback from my childhood and all kinds of

(01:08:30):
stuff that you to scare me asa kid, But now it all makes
sense. Yeah, I can relateto you. I wanted to ask you
if you lucid dream or interact withyour dreams. I too had the shadow
figures from the ranch ears, andfor like three months I had this crazy
thing about aluminium quasi crystals and spiralsso much so yes, and I'm like,

(01:08:53):
I need like a protocol of thesespirals, and it haunted me for
years. I don't know what thesespiral mean, but we saw them on
the petroglyphs. Do you have anyidea what the spiral represents? Yes,
it's part of the core sacred frequencyand geometry of the whole universe that's connected

(01:09:14):
to who we are as conscious beings. And looking at that spiral and certain
petroglyphs and understanding that is like quantumentangling with the core of Fibonacci sequence and
that music of the universe. Andwhen you tap into that, it's like
getting off of our normal frequency anddefault mode of reality that we're in and

(01:09:38):
you get to suddenly perceive or geta glimpse of these alternate dimensions, either
through lucid dreaming or remote viewing orout of body travel and all of these
different things that the government knows aboutand uses in their secret spy programs.
And a lot of those guys wereup at Mount Wilson. But I utilize
all those now mixed with like NativeAmerican and Buddhist techniques to kind of explore

(01:10:01):
this whole topic. But yeah,to me, it's all it's all interconnected.
And the spiral, as I think, something that naturally came out,
like when Wovoka when he reawakened theghost dance to the Piout people, they
would go in a spiral and makestone spirals in the ground, and it
had to do with the rotation ofthe Big Dipper rotating around the North Star

(01:10:26):
and the whole synchronizing yourself and yourconsciousness with this with the rhythm of the
entire universe and the solar system allthe way up and all the way in
and all the way out. It'sjust that that whole message. It's it's
beautiful. It's about frequency too,and just kind of aligning your frequency and
elevating your frequency as you go throughlife and try to sort all this stuff

(01:10:49):
out. So I have a questionabout the paranormal and the UFO aspects of
this. And on the ranch,have you guys are there any bigfoot?
Have you seen any sasquatch? Whatcan you tell us about that? Katie?
You could actually speak about that.Well, did you see Katie?

(01:11:12):
Yeah, you guys had one right. Well, that was a question I
had because we were hiking up tothat cave and it was kind of like
it was a beautiful day. Wegot lucky with the weather, but there
were patches of snow and just likein Season one of Beyond Skinwalker at the
Rocky Mountain Ranch where it was blizzarding, we had our headlamps on and out
of nowhere were these bipedal prints footprintsin the snow, and then they disappeared

(01:11:36):
and came back up and disappeared.Well, here we are getting close to
the cave and we get up tothis section. I think I have a
picture of me by this round sacredcircle and there was a like a skull
somebody had placed there and I kneelingnext to it. But we look off
over to the snow and there weresome unusual prints in the snow. Now,

(01:11:57):
I asked, Jeff, do youguys have sasquatch up here. No
couple of things about these prints,Chanel. I think I have pictures of
those prints up there on the ridge. I think it's labeled bigfoot question marks.
Right. So first of all,the stride isn't that wide, but
you can clearly see like toes andyou can almost see an arch of a
foot. But what is interesting tome if it was a sasquatch, like

(01:12:23):
you would think the weight would beheavy. Yeah. At first, I
had Jeffkin, I had like quartersin my pocket, and I was trying
to toss quarters. So I wastrying to be all smart, like let's
put something my can measure, butit kept going. The quarters kept falling
into the snow. So somewhere upthere now it was like seventy five cents.
But I wanted to reach out withmy hand and put this piece of

(01:12:45):
equipment that's Geiga reader or whatever totry and get some measurements to them.
But I thought, I thought that, I mean, if they're inter dimensional,
are they just like ap rish sothey're not as heavy, because you
think if it was a heavy squatchor a baby squatch, they would go
down deeper. I don't know whatdo you guys think of this, Jeff

(01:13:08):
and Carl, I mean, haveyou seen things up there before or is
this like a first or what itwas that was the first for me to
see marks like that? For sure, I never have we haven't encountered that
there before. Wow, they're followingme. I haven't at Mount Wilson.

(01:13:28):
I've been to other locations where.Yeah, I've totally been on bigfoot expeditions.
My my opinions you asked earlier,like when did it come together or
did it come together like the separationbetween like UFOs and the paranormal. To
me, it was like kind ofafter a big Foot hunt that I went
on where I was totally like thewhole talk of interdimensional stuff was just like

(01:13:49):
a joke. To me. Itwas folklore. It didn't make any sense.
But now I've totally come to termswith that and understand it, and
the experiences that I've had have allbeen more like supernatural multimedium things where I
see a shadow figure that looks likea physical creature that actually leaves physical evidence.

(01:14:14):
But then before the whole experience isover, there's a big ball of
light floating over the campfire, youknow, like weird stuff like that,
where it's all mixed together and tryingto keep it all separate. I think
is kind of a perception that thegovernment and the Pentagon honestly want us to
have so that they can control thesecrets. But I think it's way more

(01:14:36):
all around us all the time andhas to do with the quantum entanglement and
a misunderstanding that we have of lineartime and how all that works. And
so yeah, yeah, I meanwe could talk about let's talk about that
a little bit. The programming thatwe're all I feel like puppets are,
you know, they want to keepus controlled, and let's run the program

(01:14:58):
that we're supposed to run. Andcan you guys speak about that? And
an experience I had there too invisiting the ranch. I actually had it
twice. We went out. Thefirst night it was a beautiful you know,
you could see the Milky Way,stars are really bright, moon was
low and had a couple just quickflashes. And then the second night I

(01:15:21):
was in where like the saloon buildingis and then they have the rooms and
a building across from it, andI think I was going to grab I
don't know, slippers or coat whatever. I was grabbing and I was coming
back. I was by myself andI just stopped to look at O'Ryan and
I'm like, okay, if you'reout there, show me a sign.
And this light was like this bigin the sky. It was huge.

(01:15:45):
It was a flash and then flashand then flash. It wasn't a satellite,
it wasn't a plane. And I'mscreaming. I'm like, anybody come
witness. I was the only oneto witness that, but it was it
was like, all right, thatwas really cool. I don't know what
that is. But let's talk aboutthe C five protocols and the ability to

(01:16:05):
you know, get those little winksand nods. Have you guys practiced that
out there on the ranch? Whathave your results been, and what do
you feel like all of us cando to do that wherever we are?
What about you, Jeff, whatdo you do to make contact in your
own way? Here? It's justnatural. I mean you just walk outside
and you're making contact time, yeah, yourself. Yeah. The amount of

(01:16:30):
light anomaly and unexplained things in thesky here, you know, there's way
too many of them. There's it'scommon occurrence, you know, back to
even when I was purchasing this frommister Bigelow. He stated to me that
there's you know, it's a commonthing here to see lights and these you
know, he said, football sizeships that would actually like morph into the

(01:16:51):
mountain is what he called it.And I never saw a football stadium sized
ship, but I've seen a lotof these lights that just you know,
they just come and go from themountain. It's you know, and they'll
make different curves and you know,they'll come in on like a curve and
swing right in and drop right inand disappear into the mountain and it seems

(01:17:14):
to be normal here. Yeah,as far as going, where are they
going in the mountain and how dothey get through the mountain? Yeah,
we've heard it turns into this vibrationand that's how they just enter in and
out, you know, they gothrough, they go from a solid to
a vibration to end and then theyvibrate and they come out frequent. That's

(01:17:40):
how they can apparently go into thisfixed earth thing. Interesting. As far
as as far as that whole fiveand trying to like contact methods and what
we've tried, we've done a tonactually, I mean personally, I do
a lot of the contact protocol ofmy own version, Like even the the
Monroe Institute has what they call theGateway process, which is really a high

(01:18:04):
level advanced method of creating mind palaceswhere you visualize and imagine rooms and doorways
to access these other dimensions. Andso you train yourself through these proactive meditations
and through that process as you gothrough the rooms and doorways, there's different

(01:18:25):
tools and objects and things that youdo in order to basically go from where
you're at now to these other planesof reality to communicate with these other dimensions
and entities there. So when youcombine that sort of approach with the CE
five at its core, which isthis idea of like how to reach out
with your consciousness into this field ofenergy and let them know where you are,

(01:18:49):
and you want to make contact toanything that's listening. It's kind of
like bird calling or whatever. Andso you do that in a way that
for me personally, I think mattersto have it to do with the area
that you're at in the history andthe culture of the things there and to
respect that. So, like whenI go to Mount Wilson, it's all

(01:19:11):
focused on the shaman and the nativeartifacts, there, and then with that
is this strange frequency that comes in, this pulsing alien signal that comes up
from the ground that pervades that wholeexperience. So there's this indigenous, spiritual,
esoteric experience going on when I gothere that invades my dreams where I'm

(01:19:33):
dreaming about my dad who died andall this other stuff. But then through
that, I'm waking up feeling likeI'm being scanned by some tractor being or
I'm getting a software update like vibratingthrough my body and stuff, you know.
And so there's this artificial signal thatwe're also zeroing in on. So
beyond just the CE five, we'reusing technology, and we're using like sound

(01:19:59):
sensors and and highly sensitive infrasound magnetometersand all kinds of stuff to be able
to detect these ultra low pulsing frequenciesand zero in on them and actually talk
to this thing where we project thesound frequencies back into the earth and then
see if it communicates back and itdoes whatever's there, it totally does.

(01:20:20):
And all of that's going to becoming out in the next season of The
Beyond Skinwalker. I hate to teaseit like that, but that's when they
came with the technology. We wereable to literally do close encounters of the
third kind stuff with Jacques Beallet's oldprojectors overlapped with modern stuff, so we
had advanced lasers, sound and lightprojection equipment on top of the old stuff

(01:20:45):
going at the same time, andwe got some crazy stuff that happened when
we started doing that down in themeadow. Oh, I can't wait for
that. And like you guys,I think you guys did two episodes.
We did two episodes too, andwe're both under the same non disclosure so
we can't really talk too much aboutwhat happened until after they air. But
how do you guys feel about BeyondSkinwalker and you know, them pulling this

(01:21:11):
information from the different locations. Imean, do you guys see that as
you know, a good thing orhas it been a good experience? And
you guys want to speak to thata little bit. It's definitely been a
good experience. I mean we're actuallygetting some you know, the funding to
do things like this and experiments andreally figure this out. I couldn't do

(01:21:32):
this on my own, you knowagain, So now reaching out, let's
say to Carl and then reaching out. You know, as we're going through
the show, research is getting done, you know, and like you said,
can we dig? Yeah, wecan dig. Can we blow stuff
up? You guys? You guysare blowing stuff up. I love it.

(01:21:58):
I love it. I love it. I love it. Oh,
hold on, I have a holdon. I have a question for Carl
here. I got to get tothe picture. Hold on a minute.
My computer's on a delay. Idon't know if anybody else is experiencing that,
but I certainly am. Uh.Okay, here we go right here?

(01:22:19):
Okay, is this a coffee mug? That is the size of coffee
mug that I need every morning?So I was a great picture, and
I had to ask. That isone of those big chowder coffee mugs.
So there's a you talked earlier aboutthe synchronicities in our lives. That bowl

(01:22:40):
that cut right there is one ofthem, because that was handmade by one
of our YouTube subscribers and Patreon followersnamed Patrick Malley. O'Malley. Now,
he came up just because he gotinterested in watching my YouTube channel, and
so he joined the Mount Wilson Patreon. Him and his I just flew out
from Florida to come visit the ranch, and Jeff and Patrick were back in

(01:23:04):
the back room looking through stuff andthat's when they found Jacques la and Bigelow's
old light projectors, And out ofeverybody on the planet, Patrick was like,
Oh, I used to put thoseapart and fix them all the time
back in the day, And sowhen we were having to be there,
he just happened to be there.So when we got when we were ready
to film for the History Channel,he actually flew back out from Florida and

(01:23:30):
came and was able to repair thatequipment and get it running again, and
we were able to use it onthe TV show to get the results.
And he also does pottery and broughtthose those big cups of That was a
really cool thing that he even endedup there. There was like one in
a million chants that he was thereand knew how to fix that machine.

(01:23:51):
And of all the pictures I choseto grab, it was that one.
Tell the story. That's funny.That's funny. I'm like, that's great.
So let me ask you guys,both Jeff and Carl, a question
here. So do you guys feelthat when you start to investigate and you're
really digging and you're reading books andyou're trying to connect the dots. Does

(01:24:15):
the activity increase for you guys?And what do you think that's about?
If it does. I mean,the last time the show was here,
after the explosions, there was definitelyphysical effects on people that lived around here,

(01:24:38):
equilibrium, like a loss of balance. Nick Knack was completely affected.
You know, she lost her balanceafter that for a month. Wow,
that's kind of scary. I mean, yeah, why do you think perhaps,
and both of you can take astab at this because I've noticed,

(01:24:59):
and I'm sure Tara has two andothers that for whatever reason, certain people
tend to be more affected or followcertain people more so than others, or
certain people can interact with the phenomenonmore so than others. Can you speak
about that and why you think thatmight be. I'm still trying to figure
that out talking about the hitchhiker phenomenagoing to these places. I definitely experienced

(01:25:25):
something strange like that the first timeI went to Skinwalker Ranch. And even
as I'm here right now in myother room, in the living room in
my house, I have a sensorthat was built by a scientist named Jim
Sagala that has a whole array thatcan tell if anything comes and goes into
my house, and we're actively trackingwhen I have abduction or strange paranormal experiences.

(01:25:50):
Just like a couple of nights ago, I had an experience where I
woke up and I thought that thesun was coming up because there was a
bright light come through my bedroom windows. And then it was like that same
vibration that Jeff and I both get. It was like this pulsing that goes
boom and vibrates up through my bodyfor like two seconds, and then it

(01:26:11):
turns off for like seven seconds,and then it turns on again and then
off again, and it's like somethingscanning my body or trying to update my
software. It feels very artificial andstrange, right, Jeff, Like I
mean here especially, you could saythat because we have absolute silence, not
a vibration, and you know nothingother than whatever's coming from this ground.

(01:26:34):
And like you said, it's differenttones, it's different pulses. You don't
know whether you hear it or feelit, but it's there. You know
exactly what it is. Again,who knows, you know? Going into
let's say, into this paranormal though, That's where I'd say it's it's funny
here at the ranch because myself andNick Knack don't really see this shaman entity.

(01:27:00):
We only get told about him frompeople that come here. You know.
I keep looking over at my JacquesVrolet book here. You know,
it's noted in his book about thistall native shaman that shows up here at
the ranch. You know, andeven in Carl's story, we can go
a little further because he was herewith the same gentleman that talked about the
freezers. This gentleman also was herethe morning that apparently mister Bigelow was chased

(01:27:29):
off the property by whatever this entityis. Now again, what does that
mean he wants to sell? Soas you see, Jeff, Tara is
private messaging me that she's seen thelights behind you change from like this red
glow to an orange glow. AndI'm like, okay, and I'm watching

(01:27:51):
and I just saw it twice.So I don't know if this is artifact,
yeah or what. But your lightsbehind you are changing. So those
are in the mirror and that's backthere and there their orange. No,
I was sitting here. It's somethingI checked something, you know, like

(01:28:11):
you said, you know who knowswho knows what that is? You know,
I try not to pay attention toit. I live here. So
we're getting ready to get more ofthose sensors like that one that I have
in my house, Like that eventthat I know, We're going to put
those sensors in and try to catchit because we're getting like when these events
happen, we can go and lookat the data. Like my friend Jim

(01:28:35):
who built the device, I hadthat experience with the vibrations at night,
and then before I could even golook on the website to see if the
sensor caught anything, he was messagingme saying, at three o'clock in the
morning, you had a huge spikein gamma radiation and microwave radiation in your
house for some reason. And sowe can correlate this data. So it'll

(01:28:57):
be interesting if we can line up, like when Jeff is experiencing it and
I'm experiencing it, If it's happeningat the same time and actually connected to
the ranch or something, that's sointeresting quantum entanglement. Right, we have
so much in common because here I'mtelling you, Jeff, they keep changing
from chel Orange just a lot.Anyway, yeah, so I'm about an

(01:29:23):
hour and a half away from theRocky Mountain Ranch property, and after filming,
I get an increase in things,things flying off the wall, paranormal
almost culture guys stuff here. Yeah, you saw him to Kathleen, right,
We're not all going crazy here,like is he gonna button? He's
changing the But my question for you, because we often hear people say that

(01:29:44):
the hat man or the shadow figuresare negative, what are your feelings about
that, Carl? Do you feeltheir negative or positive in your life or
you know, what are your thoughtson that? So my experience initially for
most of my life was that itwas just like a try. It felt
like I was being kidnapped or beingtaken out of my room at night,
and I didn't understand it at all. But the work that I've done since

(01:30:08):
then, especially as an adult,when I was able to finally get away
from the organized religion and look atthe world and ancient cultures, and especially
talking with my Native American friends,they really really helped me understand it all.
And to me now, I utilizethose experiences almost like these are you

(01:30:28):
know, travelers on the astral planeor you know, people in my group
or my family from alternate planes ofreality that basically come and take my consciousness
out of body and we go dowork on the other side, or we
go do other things. So Ihave this life that I live day to
day when I'm awake and live inmy physical life and paying my bills and

(01:30:50):
all that, but I have thiswhole other, augmented reality in my consciousness
where these interactions occur. And nowwhen I have these experiences, what I
felt like I was being abducted.Now I realize is is just the experience
of what it's like to have youryour awareness and consciousness detached from the antenna

(01:31:15):
of the brain and the body andtaken into these other frequencies of reality that
exist around us to see and traveland do other things. Wow. And
so I've learned how to do thaton my own now, and do that
in a way through those tools creatingthe mind Palace and all those different rooms
where I go there on my ownand it's less like getting hijacked, if

(01:31:36):
that makes sense. So now Igo and show up and interact with these
different places and different beings that usedto just come and sort of take me
when I was a kid. Ithink that's fascinating and thank you for sharing
that. It's just, you know, I think a lot of people share
those experiences to some degree. Youknow, you figure out your own way

(01:31:57):
to cope and to frame it sothat you can go through on a daily
basis. You were talking about likeinteracting with these entities or whatever it is,
but then you are also talking aboutlike the CE five. Do you
think that interacting is kind of thisCE five as well? I mean,

(01:32:18):
isn't it kind of the same thing? And do you need to really call
them because they know where you areand you can't really hide, right,
I mean, you can pull thecovers up over your head and they'll still
find you no matter what you right, Yeah, I think it's just kind
of like that, that whole ideaof sort of like waiting for it to

(01:32:39):
arrive or versus going fishing, youknow, and trying to like actually be
proactive. And so to me,when I look into the ancient cultures and
go visit the ancient petroglyph site,there's all these symbolism and even carved out
and stacked in false doorways and thingsthat represent like going to nowhere or going
to the other side or whatever.And so to me, it's like just

(01:33:04):
different ways of approaching it. Likecertain types of meditation, you're basically just
trying to sit and relax and goto zen and be at peace and be
at a zero space or whatever inthe mind and in the soul. But
then there's other like CE five,where you're trying to basically reach out telepathically

(01:33:24):
and tell them your exact GPS locationsand be like anybody that's out there,
we want to we want you toshow up and not just communicate in our
mind, but we want to seeyou and anything throughout now, throughout the
past, and all time into thefuture, all dimensions. We invite to
come and make an appearance, andyou sort of summon that, you know,

(01:33:45):
So it's more like a direct knockingon the door sort of approach rather
than just waiting for them to showup. And do you ever worry about
summoning something that might not be sogood? Yep, you bet. How
did you protect yourself against that?Do you have anything that you do to
help with that? To me,again, it's all with the I refer

(01:34:09):
to the indigenous methods, the Nativeof American methods and things like that.
For me, it has to dowith just the integrity and the sincerity of
your approach. Whenever I've involved friendsor colleagues of mine that have taken it
sarcastically, they have either literally physicallyand even mentally got hurt over time when

(01:34:31):
they dabbled with the stuff and don'ttake it serious. So yeah, that's
it's not really a joke to me. But for me, it's like I
don't really have a choice. I'vebeen experiencing it since I was a kid,
So to me, I just havesomething I have to tackle, just
like if I was born with thedisability. I have to sort out.
No that you you brought that upearlier, that you need to have a

(01:34:56):
good respect or deep respect for theland. It's indigenous people and I think
one of our listeners just asked,again, can you go over the indigenous
people of the area of Mount Wilsonone more time. Yeah, it was
mostly the Piute and Northern Paiute,as well as the Goshen tribe. There
was also the Shoshone tribe that camedown from the north, and then there

(01:35:18):
was other older cultures that go backfarther they call the basket maker culture,
the Fremont people, and then theyjust call them desert archaic, which is
like just Stone Age people. Butwhen you get back into desert archaic era,
that's when it gets really weird andyou get into these interesting legends of

(01:35:39):
the giants and little people and mythologyof communication with the star people coming down
and the Patrick lifts suddenly jump backten thirteen thousand years ago and get really
mysterious. Right. Have you guyslooked into the geology of the area.
I know we talked about gold beingpresent. Is there any things, any

(01:36:02):
minerals or things that are more rarethat are found there? And also water
features. Have you looked into aquifersor are there river streams? Because I
know, at least in my research, you know, I feel like some
of these are important features to haveall kind of together, the high magnetism,
the water, the geological things.So can you speak a little bit

(01:36:25):
about what's around the ranch. Jeffknows all that geology and the mining history
or of the mountain a lot morethan me. Yeah, this is like
an ancient seabed. Mount Wilson isa volcano, you know, so it's
a volcanic origin. There goes thelights. There's a lot of mineral content
in the ground around here at differentlayers, as it was distributed on the

(01:36:48):
lake bed or on the ocean floor, whatever this was, whatever surface you
know, the seabed was. Youknow, bismuth is what we're looking for,
you know, stuff of that sort. But there's there's every mineral you
could basically find is in Lincoln Countyin this area. I have a question

(01:37:12):
for you. Was the ranch evera working ranch? Did it ever have
cattle or anything? Or is thereanything going on with it now other than
it's just for research. Well,this was an original homestead, so it
goes back to the homestead days whereyou know it survives. It had its
own water source, it had itsown it was a ranch. I mean
they did farm it. They irrigatedit, they damned off Cross Creek and

(01:37:36):
made farmable land. Right now thesedays, you know, we have goats,
chickens, plenty of dogs and andand puppies. I wanted to take
home. Yeah, I know,is there any history? These lights behind

(01:37:58):
you jet they're going crazy? Sothere. You know, it's funny because
I don't even see them flickering atall. You guys, see what I'm
saying. I can see it.Who knows. It could be a camera
trying to focus. But it's odd. It wasn't doing it at the beginning
and doing it, yeah, untiljust recently, and it seems it's going
crazy depending on what we're talking about. What and we're talking about the history

(01:38:18):
of the Yeah, it's on it'son my screen here, but I don't
physically, I don't see it happening. Yeah, it's really interesting. Is
there a history of any cattle mutilationsor anything like that in the area.
They Yeah, people have definitely seena lot of mutilation, you know,

(01:38:39):
dead cows laying around, I meanon my property itself. We had a
I mean what I would just calla pile of guts, you know,
no explanation, just out in themiddle of the snow, just a pile
of guts and a long line ofblood, which again seven eight years ago,
nine years ago, before I waseven thinking about any of this stuff.

(01:39:00):
But you know, now it meanssomething because it's right down in the
meadow, close to that spot wherewe have a lot of weird energy.
Interesting, Jeff, have you interviewedany of the locals that have lived there
for generations and did they have anyinteresting things to share? With you or

(01:39:21):
tales of anything. I've heard somany awesome tales. You know. Donna
Bardeen was one of my favorites.She was an original here. She's here
for forty years or so. Shehung out with Bigelow's crew, She hung
out with the scientist. She hadstories upon stories, you know, just

(01:39:43):
you know, Karl speaks of thethree entities. You know, Donna had
one of the coolest stories of youknow, these smelly gray creatures, you
know, two small ones and onetaller. They smelled of sulfur. Oh,
you know, and she said itwas a common occurrence here. She
knew to shaman. You know.She was able to communicate when she met

(01:40:06):
me, you know, she waslike peg golf, She's like, what
are you? You know, likelooking at me confrontationally almost the first time,
but she picked up something on me. Whatever that was, I have
no idea, but again, likethis goes this is you know, I
synchronicity has it and I'm supposed tobe here for some reason. Yeah.

(01:40:28):
Have you had any personal experiences inyour life that nothing, you know,
like I would say that noise inthe middle of the night standing in that
cave with Carl, you know,but as far as like a ghost or
an entity, you know, nothingexcept for right now. Yeah, it

(01:40:55):
feels like we've opened the door.You know, this sportal that they've talked
about and I've been told about.I mean again, here's one more story
I can tell you about David Rockefeller. You know, the weirdest encounter I've
ever had. But I don't evenknow who the guy is for sure.
I have all of his email contacts, all of his information. But this

(01:41:15):
guy just shows up in out ofnowhere, basically, and he explains he's
one of the Rockefellers, their family. You know, his emails everything showed
that he is. And he saysplainly and bluntly right to me. He's
like, you know, I justwant to go check out the portal,
you know. Yeah, and hewent off, you know, he wasn't

(01:41:36):
gone for long, and he cameback and off he went disappeared. I
mean, it was a strange story. But did he go by the cave
again? For some reason, Ididn't take a picture of him. I
didn't do anything. He just cameand went like the winds. Sometimes you

(01:42:02):
hear that sometimes whatever this is keepsus from doing whatever or documented I'm guilty
of that too. When we havethese incredible things, you don't think to
grab a camera, or it's likea personal thing, you don't think to
do that. Maybe that's all partof the plan. I don't know,
but you know, you hear ittime and time. It happened to me.

(01:42:24):
I mean, myself and Carl talkabout that all the time, that
moment when that stuff happens and youlose your you know, And that was
I had, you know, almosttwo days with them and nothing right.
Strange we had that confusion happen whenthe History Channel came to when they saw
the weird red eyes down in thelower Meadow. Remember, they all came

(01:42:45):
back up to the saloon and thenwe're taking their coats and boots off and
cleaning their cameras. And then Davegot all mad at himself and Justin did
to. And they were the producersand they were like, we've been we
filmed documentaries in the jungle, likechasing exotic species and stuff. Why did
we give up filming and come backto the saloon, Like they got confused?

(01:43:05):
Remember, and then like we hadover a million dollars worth of digging
and drilling equipment. I'm not allowedto talk about too much yet, But
we had some crazy stuff happen rightin the middle of that, where half
of the group and production team allhad a real, really weird deja vu
experience and all confused, and atone point I was the only one filming

(01:43:27):
anything with my cell phone. Itgot so weird. But yeah, we've
had a group events and strange thingslike that happened for sure. Everybody walking
in circles. Yeah, yeah,And I just just now had a weird
experience because Carl just read my mind, because literally I was going to ask
the question, did anybody on thefilm crew beyond Skinwalker experience anything weird?

(01:43:49):
Didn't you answer me before I askedthe question? So night terrors? Yeah,
did you guys have any battery drainsor anything like that? I know
we did that Mountain range my batteryspecifically, Hillary had put brand new batteries
in everybody's mics, and I feltlike ten thousand knives coming down on me.

(01:44:09):
My battery went from one hundred tofifty and then blood pressure shot up,
shaking went to the barn, andit drained to nothing. So crazy
stuff like that. Did you guyshave any battery drains? Or any malfunction
of equipment anything like that. Tonsof equipment malfunctions. Yeah, batteries drained
the drones. The GPS signal getscompletely scrambled. And it's not that it

(01:44:31):
just gets scrambled, the GPS literallygets hijacked. So even though the drone
is flying in a straight line overNevada, the GPS records like it's flying
over Cuba or Bermuda or other places. And we've been able to replicate that
more than once. But yeah,that is super bizarre and a lot of

(01:44:55):
other weird stuff. You can mentionthe rest of it. Jeff. Yeah,
drones hitting the ground, I meanthat's common. Drugs do not fly
very well around here. Yeah,we had, We definitely had. The
last time History Channel came over amillion dollars worth of equipment and gear go

(01:45:16):
totally get crapped out or get almostemp like shocked it was. You'll see.
It's really interesting. So somebody askedabout water underneath the ground, fast
moving water, like, have youdiscovered any water aquifers under the ground.
Crawl Creek has basically gone underground,but now it's back above ground. But

(01:45:40):
the whole valley down where the meadowis is a fault line. And you
know Crawl Creek does run underneath theair, so there is definitely active water
running under whether it's a high volumeor anything or high speed, I have
no idea. And all the wayup the mountain, including the Shaman Cave
that sound hollow in the back,and the places where we set off the

(01:46:02):
explosions with the History Channel, thosewere all in attempts to access these old
volcanic lavavit tubes that like the wholeShaman Cave and the type of rock formations,
and then like those stacks of pinkrock coming out of the ground that's
all like rhyolite stuff. Those areall evidence that there could be vast almost

(01:46:26):
like a honeycomb system of tunnels underneaththat mountain we can get inside. So
yeah, the geology could totally belike a pulsating aquafer coming off that runoff.
Yep. It just begs a questionwhat's going on with these ranches,
in particular Skinwalker Mount Wilson, eventhe Rocky Mountain ranch was the seventies near

(01:46:47):
nor Red and you know Air ForceAcademy. What what all these people,
all these players, what are theyhiding? What? What? What's underground.
I mean, we had the samething where the GS was going to
Melmstrom to these missile silos. Youknow, so a lot of questions that
and I just can't thank you guysenough for all the work and research you're

(01:47:10):
doing. It's a full time job. It takes over your life, and
I think it's important for everybody,for all of mankind. So thank you
Jeff, thank you Carl for beinghere, time flew by, Thank you
Tara, thank you Chanel. Yeah, thank you Kagra and Bill Skywatcher and
all our listeners. I hope youguys all have a fantastic rest of your

(01:47:31):
week. I hope you guys goto Mount Wilson Ranch. Check out their
website, check out Carl the CrushersYouTube. I mean, there's so many
videos out there to watch and they'realso fascinating. And I can't thank you
guys enough for being here. Andwe will see you next time. I
move on. What's up? Havinga good night everybody. Thank you, delated the

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