15 - Amaro's Peculiar Sense of Smell (S13E15 Hunting Ground) - Munch My Benson: A Law & Order: SVU Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Emmy found ketamine and oldevics.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yeah, probably putting him in a k hole incapacitate his
victims before he torches and kills her.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
In New York City, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
These are their stories.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
All right, guys, we are back with another much by
Benson podcast, where we're going to take a deep, dark
dive into the world of Law and Order SPU. Every
week we discuss an episode in depth, we go through
all the various ins and outs of it, and we
give you our takes on it. My name is Adam.
I live down here in Texas. Josh is on the
line with me. How are you doing out in California?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Josh, I'm doing all right. I've been spending a lot
of time doing background for this episode, because it's right
from the headlines.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, so I've.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Been really really getting all the background information for Long
Island serial Killer.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah. It's pretty disturbing stuff, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a kind of just a complete quagmire,
just a clusterfuck of poor policing, and yeah, it's rough.
For the background of this one. Wasn't fun background, that's
for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Well, do you want to just get to it unless
you got something fun that you're watching on the outside.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I watched both a feature film and a forty eight
hours mystery about the case that I'll talk about when
we dive into the background for the episode.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
I watched The Ghost in the Darkness, the Michael Douglas
Val Kilmer film about the Savo man eating lions. So
if you guys have any questions about late nineteenth century
man eating lions, I've got a lot of information about
that fascinating stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Actually, yeah, hit up Adam on Twitter if you have
questions about that. It's at at switters.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
That's right. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, what's where can
people find you on Twitter?

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Josh, I'm at Old Man Dugan.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah. Nice. So yeah, let's get to this episode. Nobody
cares about lions.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Well they might, but the lions aren't pertinent to this episode.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
You might be surprised.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, animals are kind of pertinent to the episode. But
well we'll get into that later. All right. So to
recap this episode, which is episode fifteen from season thirteen
called Hunting Ground, our Vic Haley is booked for a
quote catering gig from the back pages of Everyone's Favorite
weekly muckraker the Downtown Voice, not to be confused for
the Village Voice. She has dinner with her John, who

(02:40):
has requested the girlfriend experience, and then reluctantly agrees to
go for a ride in his jeep, which is not
tinted at all, but has a cage section in back
that's totally only for his dog Oryan. Next time we
see her, Oriyan and she have switch places, and she's
clearly in for a bad fucking time. Post weekend, Bone
Sash with Harry Connock Junior Live meets up with Tomorrow
at Haley's mother's place, where a message is played with

(03:00):
Hailey confessing to sleeping with men for money. We quickly
learn that this message was sent via recording playing over
a payphone at Union Station during rush hour. This guy
seems to know what he's doing. Finn and Rollins chased
down leads at escort agencies, where they learned there was
another likely victim, Roxy, who went missing on Christmas Eve.
Rollins is quick to slap a label on our Purp

(03:21):
as a predatory psychopath, but we quickly learned that despite
the fact she was rushing to judgment, she's not wrong
because our vic is running through some seriously green tinted woods,
being chased by Ryan and Brewster with a tranked art rifle.
We then get some crucial deats from an army wife
come escort who was spooped by the guy on a
date a few months earlier. Dodging a real bullet on

(03:42):
that one. Benson tries to use her burgeoning relationship with
her executive ADA almost boyfriend to fire him up into
some law enforcement overreach of subpoenaing all the subscriber records
of the online version of The Downtown Voice. The leads
from her army wife and a beat cop who id's O.
Ryan unearthed a slew of bodies and a horse bay
Warner's got eleven bodies she's examining. Roxy'ed been eating acorns

(04:04):
and had ticks, which Warner thinks they can id by
catalog to tick DNA down to the county. We're a
week end of the investigation, which is an epoch in
SVU years. There are also so many cops working with
the unit you almost forget this as an episode of SVU.
The squad is coordinating a massive search for any leads
across the tri state area, but entomology saves today, narrowing
the tick DNA down to Ulster County and the catskills.

(04:25):
We have a traumatized devic Lizzie, who miraculously escaped during
a power outage over Labor Day weekend. She's been in
the psych ward for five months and is still extremely scared.
Brewster is a fucking psychopath and gives girls the option
of hanging themselves if they want to end the game.
Hunt and rape, Hunt and rape. When the cops picked
up Lizzie, they didn't believe anything she said. They raise
to Hammond Island Preserve, where the green tint is out

(04:45):
in full force. They find Haley in a shack. Live
stays with her while Lamarrow and the other officers check
the perimeter. Somehow, Brewster gets past them and outs himself
as an incell who could double as an literary indie
rock front man who believes that only animals are honest.
What a fucking weirdo. Just as he's about to punish
Live for having reached for her ankle, gun Amarro plugs
him with two in the chest from the crawls based

(05:06):
under the shack. We find out this is Amorrow's first kill,
which means he's got some paperwork to fill out, but
not before he skyped with his wife on deployment, and
we get to watch as his marriage disintegrates in real time. Okay,
so that's the episode.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
There's a lot to learn about the Long Island serial
Killer with this one, there really is. So I know
you did some research on it.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
I did a lot of research on it. We had
to delay the taping of this episode by a day
and then by another hour because I was so deeply,
deeply involved with this research that it was really pushing
things anyway. So this episode is based on the Long
Island serial Killer. There's an episode of forty eight Hours

(05:48):
Mystery that can be streamed on the extremely wonky CBS
News website. If you just search for Long Island serial
Killer videos on YouTube, it'll come up. The case was
also the basis for the scripted film by documentarian Liz Garbus,
who directed What Happened Nina Simone and Who Killed Garrett Phillips.
Her feature film on this subject is called Lost Girls,
which dropped on Netflix in March. Lost Girls also featured

(06:11):
Dean Winters and presumably operates in a world in which
Brian Cassidy moved out to Suffolk County by twenty ten,
so over the course of about twenty years, the yet
to be caught Long Island serial killer, or craiglist River
as he's sometimes called, is killed between ten and twenty
victims and dumped their remains in the brush dunes and
marshland at Gilgo Beach and Oak Beach along the Ocean

(06:32):
Parkway in Suffolk County and the area of Jones Beach
State Park in Nassau County. Four bodies were discovered in
December of twenty ten when an officer and his dog
were doing routine training exercises near where the Gilbert family
had coincidentally been imploring Suffolk County police to search since
Shannon Gilbert disappeared in May of twenty ten. This was
the area around the gated community of Oak Beach where

(06:53):
she'd been last seen by multiple witnesses. She placed a
frantic twenty three minute nine to one to one call
from a house there after having been driven to the
house of Joseph Brewer by her driver, Michael Pack. Pack
was said to have been in pursuit of her when
she likely crossed paths with a physician with Tye suff
County law enforcement doctor Peter Hackett. Meanwhile, the police took
an hour to respond to the nine to one one call,
and when they arrived, Shannon was nowhere to be found.

(07:15):
Two days later, doctor Hackett called Shannon's mother and told
her that he ran a home for wayward girls and
asked that there'd been a missing person's report filed for
Shannon when asked about having made this call, and a
subsequent call where he denied having any contact to Shannon,
like another three days after the initial call, when after
about having made these calls, he denied ever having called
the Gilbert home or having met Shannon for months to

(07:38):
anyone who would ask, until he was finally confronted with
phone records corroborating Mary Gilbert's claim that he had called
them twice. At this point he changed his story and
said that he called, but never said he ran home
for wayward girls. None of the four bodies found initially
were that of Shannon Gilbert. Instead, they were of four
other call girls who would advertise their services on Craigslist,
where Shannon also ran ats. All four had been strangled

(07:58):
and dumped in burlap sacks in the weeks following the
disappearance of Melissa Barthelmy in two thousand and nine, her
younger sister received sexually explicit threatening phone calls from her
killer placed on Melissa's phone. Around the time of Melissa's disappearance,
there were slew of calls to the Manorville area where
the possible Long Island serial killer suspect John Bitrolf lived.
Bitref was convicted in twenty seventeen of the murder of

(08:20):
two prostitutes, one in nineteen ninety three one in nineteen
ninety four thanks to DNA linking them to the bodies.
He was also said to enjoy killing animals, and Melissa
Barthelmy was best friends with the grown daughter of one
of Bitrell's victims that he was eventually convicted of killing.
Bitrolf also only lived three miles from the second dumping
site that was unearthed. A few months after the initial
find of four victims. In March and April of twenty eleven,

(08:43):
the remains of six other bodies were found. The first
belong to Jessica Taylor, who had died in two thousand
and three when her naked just member Torso was found
atop a scrap heap in Manerville.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Her skull and hands, and the rest of her remains
were found eight years later at Gilgo Beach, along with
the mains of three more Jane Does, a toddler likely
belonging to Jane Doe number six, and an unidentified Asian
man wearing a dress. These bodies dated back to nineteen
ninety six, over a year after Mary Gilbert was badgering
the Suffolk County Police to search for Shannon. She was

(09:15):
finally found in the thick brush of the marshland directly
behind doctor Hackett's house. To show Mary Gilbert where Shannon
was found, the police drove her to Hackett's house and
showed her from his deck. Police have linked ten bodies
to the Long Island serial killer, but Shannon Gilbert is
the one they refused to link to him, ruling her
death as a drowning after becoming disoriented on drugs.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
When she was.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Finally found, her clothes and belongings were nowhere near where
her body was found. The police's explanation was that the
thick brush must have pulled her jeans off her body
as she was wading through.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
The muck, as it does.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, they said she drowned in mere inches of water.
The Gilbert's family lawyer had her body examined by another
forensic pathologist who said that her hy bone in her
neck was broken like it would be if she was
the victim of strangulation. There are five other bodies in
addition to Shannon Gilbert that have been found that may
or may not be attributable to the Long Island serial killer.
The through line with all of the police investigation through

(10:11):
this Long Island serial killer case is that the police
seem to have been wildly inept for a investigation of
this magnitude. No one believed them, No one cared because
they're prostitutes, No one believed the family. It's just this
shocking level of an aptitude across the board from all
of these police officers. It's really disturbing to watch. Yeah, well, uh,

(10:33):
I guess we should dive into the episode.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Huh yeah. On that fun note, let's get back to
the episode. So I was gonna talk about some other
through lines going through this episode. So dogs are a
big part of this episode. There's a dog named Orion
who's a blue healer who is owned by the perpetrator
that comes back and forth. But even before then, we
cut kind of an out of the way reference to
a dog because when Benson and Harry Connock Junior go

(10:55):
on a date, they go see The Artist, which is
a silent film from what twenty two twelve, Right.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
It was released in late twenty or in twenty eleven,
but it was Oscar Season, which they would have been
going to.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, so twenty eleven Oscar Season. It won the Best
Picture and it was the silent film, and the dog
was like the main character in it. Now with those
dog notes because I'll just finish out my dog notes.
So my dog is partially the same breed blue healer.
He's a mutt, so he's not purebred or anything. But
in one scene they say it's a blue healer, a
very rare breed. It's not a rare breed at all.

(11:27):
It's an extremely common breeze. Maybe not New York City,
but you see blue and red healers or Australian cattle
dogs is another name for them all over the place.
They're kind of annoying because they are natural herders and
so they will nip at you if you are doing
something that they don't want you to do, or vice versa.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Should we talk about David Hayden for a second, which
was Hayden Executive EIGHTYA David Hayden, okay, who is played
by Harry connot Junior. This is one of four episodes
that he's in. He gets a four episode arc during
season thirteen where the writing staff is clearly like scrambling
to come up with something in the wake of Stabler leaving. Yeah,
so this is his second last episode. This is kind

(12:07):
of the only one where we get a glimpse of
what a relationship between Live and he could be.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
So this is pre Barba then, right, he's an.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Executive ada, Yeah, he would be above Barba anyway. This
is more like ron Leebman's character in that episode that
we covered Angela from Who's the Boss? Her character Yeah,
or headed in the current season Yeah, which you're surely
not caught up with.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
It all, not even clothes.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, but he's basically the Eightya's boss. He's been transferred
to the Manhattan Bureau for a four episode arc basically,
and then he resigns in disgrace after one of his
underlings carries out a gross in miscarriage of justice. I
guess we should talk outside the theater. They walk right
by our Purp who's grabbing the latest copy of The
Downtown Voice from a curbside paper dispenser with his dog.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
What I think is interesting about this episode is that
there's well, in the world of SVU, there's two free
alt weeklies in New York, because the Village Voice is
also a thing in this world, not just the Downtown Voice.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
No, no, And the Downtown Voice is just like lethally
ripping off the Village Voice's name.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
Oh my gosh, so much so. And they're advertising revenue
as well.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I kind of love that this episode isn't fucking around
with red herrings at all. No, we know from scene one, oh,
this guy's are target.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, this guy's are target. This guy is a serial
killer or an extreme freak, and it's going to take
off from here. It's really disturbing. The car ride with
the girl in the cage, Holy shit, that was fucked up.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, it's instantly just like, oh fuck, we're gonna get
a dark, dark episode. When we come back from the
post credits, the first scene is Lvia like getting the
call and then she's having to rush to the scene.
I like that Tomorrow seems pleased that Olivia got her
screw On.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, he does. I also like that he can tell,
you know, he hasn't been her partner for twelve seasons
like Stabler had been.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
But he knows, he probably he can probably he can
probably smell Harry Conning Junior's come Honner.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Absolutely, thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Presumably it smells like bleach. Right.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
You have to think, now, do you think that the
show creators think that Harry is Okay? So, I haven't
seen enough of the Harry Conic episodes, but in my mind,
I think that they think that a New Orleans accent
sounds just like a slow New York accent, and so
that's why they cast him.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
You can practice law in New York if you grew
up in New Orleans.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Okay, it's true, but he just doesn't have to have
a New York accent. New York is a cosmopolitan city
with people from all over the world.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Isn't that the truth? Okay, here's one thing I'll say
about this episode. It really goes hard on the storylines
for every one of the main characters. Yes, we get
we get a storyline with munch Kind. Except for Finn,
we don't really get any any Finn to Tuola in
this episode.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
But he's just a cop doing his job.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah, he's just a cop doing his job. Munch is
extremely pro backpages, which I'll get to in a little while.
Back Pages is the advertising kind of setup by which
you used to be able to find escorts and other
things back in the day. It has since been legislated
out of existence.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Largely because of cases like this. The initial case is
actually from Craigslist. Yeah, and Craigslist had to get rid
of theirs too, exactly.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Now it's controversial, and we'll get there, but yes, these
sorts of things did lead to it being shut down.
But Munch is definitely pro backpages because it keeps publications
like the Downtown Voice afloat.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
His favorite weekly Muckraker.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Apparently they're the only people doing local news anymore, he says. Now,
of course, Olivia's dating Harry Connick Junior. We get a
little drop about Rollin's character because it is the Super Bowl.
We find out and Craigan asked her how she did
during the Super Bowl because she is a recovering gambling addict.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
I suppose we should place this like where it's happening
in SVU and this is obviously happening in the first
season without Stabler season thirteen because they had to fill
such a big hole. Yeah, they really loaded Rollin's and
Amaro backstory into these episodes big time. I believe season thirteen,
Warren Light was the showrunner. I was just listening to
a podcast about the upcoming Stabler show and he talks

(16:15):
about how this season, the new season, they tried to
roll out the character development on these new characters a
lot slower because they'd sort of like made the mistake
of going into this way too fast. Yeah, and doing
a bunch of backstory about characters that you don't care
about yet.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
Exactly, and just doing whole backstory episodes about them.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, because the Rolins gambling episode has already happened at
this point, and like Craigan decides that he's going to
keep her on, but she has to go to a
gambler's anonymous meetings. It's definitely something. There are some growing
pains in this season that are related to how they're
unloading backstory. But holy shit, do they cram a lot
of that into an episode it's about a serial killer.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
They sure do. And I would say the worst parts
of this are when we have to watch Danny Pino
Niko Morrow talk to his wife in Afghanistan via Skype,
which is, for one thing, kind of an irritating storyline,
but just features some just really outdated looking camera work
and just ham fisted technology references. It's just this weird
fish eye view lens kind of of Amorrow talking to

(17:14):
his wife. It looked like something straight out of Nickelodeon.
Did you notice that there was a Brewster McCloud reference.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
I did. It's one of the Altman movies I haven't seen, though,
so it sort of didn't land with me unfortunately.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah. So Budcourt lives underneath the bleachers in the Astrodome
and he makes a Renaissance style flying machine under the
bleachers of the Astrodome which eventually flies in the Astrodome.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Like based on Da Vinci. Yeah, basically on the Da
Vinci's sketches.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, basically based on the Da Vinci's sketches.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Which also play a factor in Hudson Hawk.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, Brewster Vercloud. It's a lot of fun. I highly
recommend it. It's nice for an Altman film in that
it isn't a three and a half hour long ensemble
cast character study kind of thing. It's just a straightforward
movie and it's fun and it's a bud courte so
you don't get too many of those.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, we need more bud Court features.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Bud Court is now in session, mock trial with Jay
Reinhold needs to imitate alright, but court is.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Now in session.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
Please besteesus not just see when you got someone's hand
of your ass?

Speaker 3 (18:16):
All right, let's lose the puppet.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Then from Arrested Now, I wanted to come back to
the dog because in my mind, the dog kind of
saves the day. So at the very end, when Olivia
Benson is about to be murdered by Brewster, the serial killer,
the dog barks, which breaks Brewster's concentration for just long
enough for Tomorrow to get a handle on things and

(18:44):
come up with a plan for saving the day, which
he does eventually.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Well, let's not chalk that up to benevolence on a
Ryan's part. What's going on is he hears Amorrow in
the crawl space under the cabin. Yes, and he's barking
at Tomorrow. He's not trying to dave Benson's life.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
Well does Yeah, but he's a tough dog, so he
doesn't understand what he's doing.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, he's inadvertently saving Benson's life, but it's not intentional.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Oh. Another film that I found this reference scene, which
I think applies is nineteen ninety four Surviving the Game
starring Iced Tea, Rutger Howard, and Gary Busey, among others,
where I think it's like the Deadliest Catch of All
Man something like that anyways, where some rich guys pay
a bunch of money to hunt Iced Tea.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Essentially, I hope he fucks him up.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
He does in the end.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
So there are a few things, a few things in
the episode that sort of owe to the actual Long
Island zero Killer. After hearing the message that Brewster made
Haley leave on the machine, we get the mother saying
that the cops she spoke to on Sunday wouldn't listen
and said Haley was likely outpartying. This seems to be
a nod to the many cops who wouldn't listen to
the Long Island serial killers victims families when they called

(19:53):
to say their daughters or sisters were missing. They ran
into a persistent attitude from the cops that prostitutes were
prone to running off and that they didn't really seem
to be human.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
How disturbing were those phone calls? Every one of them
was dark.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
That's what the serial killer was doing to Melissa Barthelmy's sister,
who was only fifteen. He was calling her and telling
her he was gonna fucking rape and kill her.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Dang, that's super fucked up.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Then the other thing that sort of ties into that
is him using the Grand Central Station payphones to relay
communication with the family is sort of ripped from the
case too, because when the real Long Island serial killer
was calling Melissa's sister, he was doing so from highly
trafficked tourist areas like Times Square, so they couldn't figure
out who.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
He was easily. Yeah. Now their first leads lead them
to these escort agencies that advertise in back pages, and
I just want to point out the second escort agency
they go to. I loved this performance. It probably was
my favorite performance of the thing. The guy there, for
one thing, his office is a fake SAT tutoring service,
which I think is just a genius bit.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's called a the SAT.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, but this guy comes across as one of these
like classic Downtown New York characters. He probably could have
been a minor bit role in uncut gems. This guy's fantastic.
He says the bought her a new grill because she
was a meth addict, and he says, cuspid to cuspid
ten grand how much the new ves cost? Yeah, oh,

(21:17):
I love that. Really great performance. That guy really owned it.
He was probably my favorite bit part because honestly, that's
one thing that this lacked was sort of standout small
roles for the characters. It was definitely very main cast
focused episode.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Right, and then very very heavy on the vic the purp,
the Vick's mom is in at a fair amount, and
then we get you know, then we get the army
wife and her husband. Yeah, and Lizzie the victim who escaped.
But that's most of what we have. That isn't just
like a really functional this is a doctor, this is
a whoever. There's not a lot of color in this
episode other than that.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah, that's true. I would say that the that the
scene it, I guess it was the morgue. It seemed
like it was a larger facility than the regular morgue.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
We go to, well, yeah, you got to have room
for eleven fucking bodies.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
Dozen heavily decomposing bodies in there, really disturbing stuff for SVU.
I mean that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Our department really had to do a lot for this
episode because that's a lot of fucking corpses that they
had to come up with.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, they brought it. It was fairly realistic looking too.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Uh yeah, in various stages of d comp too, so
because you know this is presumably happening over the course
of a couple of years at least. All right, so
can we talk about how great Munch as Martha's Vineyard
dig was. When they're trying to identify the van by
the sticker and it was either an MVY or an MB,
Munch says, yeah, she said either MV or MB, and

(22:38):
they could be Martha's vinyard.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
There's a lot of criminals up there. Yeah, that was
really good, very much a Kennedy dig.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, it was delightful. I love that it's all basically
a dig on rich corporate fucks who have who have
summer homes on Martha's vineyard.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Absolutely, we also get.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Munch talking a lot about supporting the First Amendment. This
seems like the more cohesive version of Munch that I
think we both sort of have the impression of but
as we've hit him in random episodes, there's shit where
it's like this doesn't make any sense, and this seems
to adheer a lot more to his worldview.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Absolutely. So another thing, since I always like to go
there whenever a drug comes up in our viewings, I
went to psychonatwiki dot org because the girls were drugged
with ketamine. That's what was in the barbs that he
was shooting at them during the game, and it seems like.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
There they descend into k holes.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, they descend into k holes exactly, which you know,
is definitely plausible. I think that at a high enough
dosage there is supposedly the experience of dying. For instance,
I found a couple experience reports and at two hundred
and sixty milligrams of ketamine it was described as lost
in Paisley, and when you increase to three hundred milligrams,

(23:48):
this experience report was titled the Void Finding Peace in Death.
So I would say that it sounds like at a
high enough dosage you would get those side effects that
were described in the episode. Though it is commonly used
as a sedative. I know when I got my wisdom
teeth removed. They gave me ketamine among other things.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Doesn't Lost in Paisley sound like a Prince album that
was never released?

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Yeah, Prince album or you know, it sounds timey to me, like, yeah,
like an Oasis song that was just a straight ripoff
of something from Revolver. But that's just me.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
I think I probably associate Prince with Paisley Park a
lot more because I lived in Minneapolis for five years.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Absolutely, But Loston Paisley, Loston Paisley sounds like a tell
all documentary about how Prince was abusing his staff members
or something like that at First Avenue.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, I wish that, like Prince had hired Kevin Smith
to do a documentary about him and then it all.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
It's just an a vault, really interesting.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
I wish that had come out. Let's talk about how
weird the green tinting is and the scenes in the woods.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah, there was a lot of weird stylistic choices just
with the camera work, and yeah, the woods are incredibly green.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
There's the weird flashback that she has to the shack
that's like a POV shot where she's talking about the crawlspace.
We're talking about Lizzie. Now, yeah, where Lizzie's talking about
the crawl space and we get the weird shot that's
clearly just the camera which was set up in the
same spot for when Living Tomorrow are charging the shack,
clearly the same angle. So they didn't even bother to

(25:15):
They didn't bother to repo at all. They just kept
going with that shot. We're like, oh, we'll just use
this shit for b ROLL. That the flashback for POV,
We'll use that too. Yeah, So that was super weird.
But I was going back and forth a second time,
watching and going back and forth between screens on my computer,
and it was so green that I thought my computer
screen was fucked up for a second, Yeah, because I
seriously was like, what the fuck's up with my computer?

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, it was bizarre, just incredibly green. But they also
kind of did that in the scene where the girl
is locked in the cage in the back of the truck,
there's a really kind of weird tint.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
They definitely kept it in the shack too. Yeah, they
definitely kept it there because liv looked weird because they
still had the green tint there.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yeah, she did look super weird. Strange, strange choices in
the episode kind of goes with the the weird skype
vision stuff. Yeah, we saw there was also a weird
as far as like that the way they color corrected.
It seems like different people did this because the scenes
on the beach also have a very completely different feel.
Those are totally bleached out.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
That actually makes sense, Like I feel like that's a
choice that I feel like stylistically really works. Yeah, it's
I mean, it's a little unusual to see an SVU,
but it definitely works. You know, you've got this led out,
bleached out, stark, fucking landscape where the dogs are just
this is we're talking about when they find the body. Yeah,
they find a lot more bodies and the dogs are

(26:35):
just parked over bodies, and she lives comes around the dune.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
As far down the beach as you can see. Basically,
it's so fucking bleak.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Like you watch you watch that and mic post score
comes up, Like that scene really fucking works. It's instantly
just like, oh fuck this. You get the sinking feeling
in the pit of your stomach.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, absolutely so. Should we get to some of the
other stuff in this We always do some extra segments.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Can we talk about how they clearly had to employ
a goose wrangler for very little cost.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
I almost forgot about the goose. Yes, they had a
wounded goose in a scene.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, there's a Canadian goose. There's a Canadian goose in
a cage in his apartment when they go to rate it,
and they find every possible incriminating thing that you can find,
so they know they're obviously on the right track. But
holy shit, when they get in there and there's a goose,
I'm like, well, they really brought in a goose wrangler
for really no cause the goose didn't do much other
than sort of like drive home the fact that he

(27:31):
cares about animals exactly.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
I mean, that's the only thing. He cares more about
animals than he does about people.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
But like, how much did it cost to get that goose?

Speaker 3 (27:38):
I mean, I think you can get a goose for
fairly cheap.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
I don't know the wrangler's not cheap either.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
Yeah, I mean, I guess you need to have like
an acting goose.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
You got to find a picture goose.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
You got to find a goose that's not going to
hiss and bite the other actors. So a trained goose,
you know what does a train goose go for nowadays, Josh,
you're on Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
It's probably a couple hundred dollars at least.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
You don't think he gets.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
For a seriously, five seconds of screen You don't think
you gets SAG minimum for a day. I bet the
whole thing costs about a grant. Between the wrangler and
the goose itself, it's probably about a grand and it's
for no more than what ten seconds of screen time.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
If that I don't even know if it was ten seconds.
They do point it out, though I thought they were
just kind of going to leave the goose in the corner.
But though somebody does point out that he saves geese
on his free time.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
I sty says, nurses birds back to health, and kills women.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
I'm a big fan of guys that grant facing due
process but also think pretty good tonight.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
We always do a few segments. One of them that
we do is called New York State of Mind, where
we talk about the way New York shows up.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
In this one, there's a heavy emphasis on state here
because the net is cast a lot wider in this one.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
There is Yeah, they go out to Nassau County in
this one. They go up way upstate to Sogerty's which
is by Woodstock, and those are all all the locations
they go are at least believable. But what I was
going to talk about in this segment instead of doing that,
although there is one, there is one interesting location they
go to. So the down Town Voices address, which sixty

(29:02):
eight Washington Square South, is actually nyused Bob's the Library,
which is the real building that's there, which is a
really cool place. It's extremely interesting looking on the inside.
It's this kind of big empty box. It's got a
huge atrium and like I don't know, like fifteen floors
or something, and all the stacks are on the sides
of it. Over the years, they've had a number of

(29:22):
suicides happen there. People have jumped off from the higher levels.
They've had to put in a barricade which is now
a perforated metal barrier. But it looks amazing. It's definitely
something worth checking out if you're around a Washington Square park.
There was a Bob's Boy homeless kid that lived in
it for I don't know a few months, at least.
He was an NYU student who couldn't afford student housing,

(29:43):
so he lived in there.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I mean, student housing for NYU has to be insanely expensive.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
You know, you're talking about a school that I think
it's like thirty thousand dollars a semester or something like that.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, since it's really pricey.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
It's extremely expensive.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
You think with a name like New York University, you
think with a name like that, it's a state school.
It's not.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
It is not super absolutely not. Yeah, it's extremely expensive.
And I mean, I'm sure they have pretty good student
aid packages. But if you're in that zone where you
don't qualify for the student aid, but you also can't
afford to live in Manhattan, which few.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Can, which no one can anymore.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Yeah, exactly, you're kind of fucked. But no. What I
wanted to talk about with this segment instead was about
the back pages themselves that they talk about so much.
So at this point there is no Village Voice anymore,
and that's because it was unable to fund itself. So
Village Voice and many other weeklies funded themselves with their
kind of somewhat blurring the lines between illicit and illicit material.

(30:39):
In this case, was a thing called backpage, which was
basically the adult section of the Village Voice, which advertised,
for lack of a better word, call girls. It was
a huge resource for sex workers to advertise themselves.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Call girls and call boys.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
And call boys absolutely call people of all kinds, and
it was not the first such entity to face fury
after things like the Long Island serial killer came around.
Beginning in about twenty ten, Craigslist, which had been basically
the premier spot to find a sex worker online, came
under fire, and by twenty eleven, Craigslist no longer offered

(31:18):
any adult services, so most of those switched to Backpage,
which had an online feature at this point and was still,
of course a huge fundraiser for Village Voice. Backpage came
out of Village Voice as the same people spun it off.
Now it became a huge hub for sex workers, and
with that it became a hub for sex trafficking as well,

(31:38):
And so this is where the kind of laws against
it started up. Now there's it back and forth here,
because well, yes, Backpage did clearly lead to children and
adults being trafficked. It also was a much safer way
for willing sex workers to find customers, and in fact,
it's estimated that seventeen percent fewer or sex workers were

(32:01):
killed during the kind of hot era of Craigslist and
back pages, so from about two thousand and two to
twenty twelve when they began to be shut down, So
there were significantly fewer deaths as a result of being
engaged in sex work. And so nowadays it's kind of
pushed sex work back into the shadows, out onto the
street where there's real you know, sort of classic view

(32:22):
of pimps who beat up the people that work for
them instead of being able to be independent contractors, which
places like Craigslist and back pages allowed. So it's fairly controversial.
They're definitely willing sex workers out there and their lives
have been made much more difficult by these things being
shut down. Back Page itself was essentially ended by a
law passed in twenty sixteen called CESTA.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
I think Craigslist doing away with their whatever they called it,
it wasn't back pages. I think Craigslist doing away with
that was a direct result of Long Island serial kill.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yeah, Craigslist was, well, there was a because they did it.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Basically, there was there was social or there was pressure
from the people to get rid of it. Because people
were dying.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah, exactly, Well, Craigslist voluntarily shut it down. Yes, now, no,
So SESTA is the Stop Enabling Sex Trafficking Act. There's
also the Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act FASTA. So these
are the two bills that were signed in twenty seventeen
by the Trump administration.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
How did corporations get rich off of this bill?

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Actually, tell me if you have some knowledge about this.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
No, I'm just operating under the assumption that this is
all just a cash grow because that's everything that the
Trump administration's done. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Well, I mean the thing is that is that it's
has made it a lot more dangerous to be a
sex worker, is the big takeaway? Now, at the same time,
it might have limited some there definitely was sex trafficking
done through these websites. There's also a rent Boy is
another one that was shut down. There's a few of these.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
However, I really miss rent Boy.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yeah, I know you're a big fan. However, it does
also seem like, you know, it's one of these challenging situations.
So it did some bad, but it probably did more
good than it did bad.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah, we have a tendency as a society. We think
we identify something that's an ill and don't think about
the other aspects that it's actually helping with. Absolutely, especially
when it comes to sex workers.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Absolutely, And it's not like sex trafficking has stopped because
they shut down these websites, not even close.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
They're going to find a way to traffic people.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
It just becomes more dangerous for people that are doing
this for the right reasons, whatever those are, to do this,
and it becomes a lot, a lot worse for them.
So it's kind of an interesting story. Of course, this
did lead to the end of the Village Voice, which
if you're looking at why the Trump administration might have
wanted to shut this down, it's because it's yet another
way to get rid of good journalism outfits. Right. But yeah, no,

(34:44):
it's an interesting story, and it's definitely one of those fraught,
complicated issues that there's good and bad in there at
the same time. But yeah, no more backpages anymore, and
increasingly fewer and fewer All weeklies anywhere. Houston's All Weekly
is gone, New York's has gone. They're just all dying,
which is sad.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Houston's All Weekly was pretty sad though.

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah, I mean it's true, I.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Had plenty of times where I had to kill an
evening in Houston and I picked up that fucking I
picked up that fucking weekly and you just look through
You're like, what is this town?

Speaker 3 (35:17):
Well, we were pretty spoiled. Austin Chronicle is a pretty
good one.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, the Chronicle's pretty fucking great. Yeah, I really love
the Austin Chronicle does a lot of awesome shit.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
Also, New York Times columnist Nicholas Christoff, who is ostensibly
on the left, played a big, big part in shutting
down back pages with some.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Of his arguably on the left. Yeah, exactly, depending on
who you talk to. If you listen to Trump, he's
on the left.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, absolutely, Well, this guy definitely took a very strong
position against it. He's against human trafficking, which who isn't. However, again,
it is a complicated issue, and.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah, it does more harm than good.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah, a lot of people have died as a direct
result of being forced into much more dangerous ways to
do sex work than at the time. But okay, so
this is kind of a dark episode in a lot of.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Ways, super dark. Can we talk about dead Horse Bay
for a second?

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Sure, Yeah, talk about dead Horse Bay.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
I don't know shit about it, but it's the most
ominous name for anything that I've ever heard.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
It's a real place, Yeah, it is a super ominous name.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Like if we're to believe what they said in the episode,
is where the city used to dump dead horses.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Right, yeah, I mean there's a lot of those places
in New York though, fresh Kills and is Fishkill?

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Is that a thing too? Isn't that a thing in
New York?

Speaker 3 (36:31):
Probably? I mean, I know fresh Kills is the old
landfill on Staten Island which is now basically a wildlife preserve?

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Is that some gallows humor in the naming?

Speaker 3 (36:41):
I guess yeah, right, good reason not to go to
Staten Island at least up until recently.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Did you look up whether Hammon Island Preserve is a
real place?

Speaker 3 (36:47):
You know? I did? I think it is. Yeah, Hammond
Island Wildlife Preserve. It's a real place.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
It's where they said it is sort of northwest of
Socrates in Ulster County. I presume, yeah, exactly, really close
to Woodstock all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Should we get into rating the episode.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
Let's rate this episode. So we rate these episodes on
a number of criteria. We do each one from one
to ten, and then we get a composite score off
of that rating system. We're going to going backwards order
for this one, and I think this number is going
to be reasonably high. So let's start with the depth
and breadth of lives ruined.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Here.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
You get a higher score the more people's lives were
completely destroyed by this episode. There were a lot in
this episode.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
We have what a Yeah, it's a serial killer. So
there's eleven victims that they found dead. Eleven dead victims,
plus four more that they can't account for in his diaries.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Plus three living victims who are in various stages of
having their lives ruined. I guess one not strictly a victim,
but an almost victim who's probably Yeah, the Army wife
fairly disturbed by it.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
She couldn't after this be going through survivor's guilt.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
We have Amorrow's marriage.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Amorrow's marriage, and he has a child at this point.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Right, Yeah, they have a kid. There's also the concern
that with this being his first kill, that maybe he
gets a thirst for blood. Yeah, it's true, and he
has to kill again.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
As they do. Oryan the dog no longer has an owner,
so we don't know what's going to happen there.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
And really his operating purpose in life is probably out
the door too. He doesn't get to hunt girls anymore.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Seriously, he's the Gary Busey character from Surviving the Game,
and well, his job is over.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
All the employees of the Downtown Voice because Harry Connock
Junior lays down the.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Law, shuts them down.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
The family members of all the victims, they're all fucked, you.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
Know, the pimps advertising in the Downtown Voice because their
livelihood is over and both of them seem like stand
up characters, you know, pun bought for Niers.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
I think if there is a cause for a ten
rating and the fucking breadth of fucking fallout from this episode,
this is it.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Yeah, and there's a lot of stuff. I mean, so
Olivia and harro Conic Junior's relationship is it's doomed.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
It's got to be on the rocks now.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
It's doomed from this because he says, this only works
if we're not involved in the same cases live.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
We can't call in any chits on each other. This
us it only works if I don't get near a
case you're working on, and for the record, Detective, I
do want this to work.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
He's sniffing the case she's working on in a big way. Really,
I mean, who's there. If there's a ten, this is
a ten. This is a ten. Basically, munch Fin and
Kragan come out of this pretty well. But nobody else
that we see does. Everybody else's shit is fucked up? Yeah, yeah,
I'm okay with ten.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Problematicness of this episode also quite high. I'm gonna go
with maybe an eight on this.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
They could have found ways to found ways to make
this more problematic in a way, in a way that
would not be good. Yeah, they didn't do that. But yeah,
there's a lot to really unpack here. It's this is
a bleak leak episode.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
It's very dark and you're kind of yeah, you're forced
to confront really evil dark things.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, I will say that when we finally get to
the nuts and bolts of what his belief system is,
it's not really well realized. There's an order to everything
in nature, hunt, feed, breed.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
All in the now.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
I'm honest. Animals don't lie about what they want, not
like you.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
Whores will tell you they want you as long as
you're paying Graham.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
You don't have to use that.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
I just want you to talk to me and help
me understand all this. No, you don't.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
You're a liar too.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
You don't think I tried.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
I held doors, bought dinner, and they look past me
every time like I was.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Nothing until I pay them then I'm good enough. Yeah,
that one's good.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
All of it's just this weird insult line. I kept
trying to place what indie rock band from the mid
Auts he would have been the front man for.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
He looks exactly like Tim Heidecker from Tim and Eric.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
I thought I was thinking more that he looked like
if you could somehow merge John Darniell and Colin Malloy
into one person, that's who he would become.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
The animals don't lie like these whrrors That line. Yeah,
it's fucking dark.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
It's just a really weird overarching view of the world.
It feels like they got to that part of the
episode and sort of just mailed it in a little bit. Yeah,
but the rest of the episode is so good though.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
It's really good. I mean in like the scene with
the not in a.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Fun way necessarily, but it is a really good episode.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
The survivor in the you know, mental ward and sogerties.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Oh she's fucking great. Great, she's really fucking good. There's
not a moment that I don't buy z Kine. So
that's rained de Corsi. She should get a shout out.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Absolutely, she was great.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
She Also she's in an episode in season eleven, the
episode with Kathy Griffin and Sutton Foster.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Nice. So I'm going to say it's an eight as
far as problematic goes, because it could have taken it
another notch or two. But yeah, not that much.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
There are definitely ways that this could have gotten even
more problematic, and it didn't go that far. But it's
very high up. We've got the police ignoring prostitutes, we've
got no one paying attention to the victims families. There's
a lot of shit like that where you know, they're
still hitting the notes of what's super problematic about the
actual case while still having SVU actually saved the day.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, exactly, And they're getting into like hot button real
world issues that are problematic in multiple different directions.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah, First Amendment violations and all of that. Yeah, it's
it's really covering a broad spectrum of problematic areas.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
So the guest performances, I mean they were all great,
but they were mostly small. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
So yeah, this is a big shortcoming. There's not much
for this episode. I mean, I don't think they're bad,
and I think, like, especially Lizzie's good, she's great. Haley's
good when she's on screen. What's his fuck? Not Brewster?
I mean Brewster, but not Brewster because that's not as really. Graham, Yeah,
Graham Winger, he's good, and then they have the dumb
where he's espousing his in cell worldview and that doesn't

(43:21):
really work.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, that was a little, a little off. Josh Mostelle
as the Backpage's pimp, Dylan Pope, he was great, Yeah,
he's great, but kind of small parts. So I don't know,
maybe but five yeah, four or five, Yeah, let's say four,
because again they were good, but they were small. And
then this overall quality seven.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, that sounds good. I mean, obviously you don't instantly
rewatch this episode.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
No, that's true.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
The prospect of watching it a second time was unappealing.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
I only watched it once and I didn't feel the
need to watch it again. I was taking notes while
I watched it, so.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
I watched it twice and man, it's it's a tough episode.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yes, I mean it's supposed to be tough, and they
pulled it off. It was good.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, they pulled it off, but yeah, I'd go like seven.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Yeah, So that puts it at a seven and a quarter,
which is the pretty high third highest rated episode we've
watched so far, at least according to our metrics.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Are carefully considered metrics.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
Absolutely behind only A Season three's Ridicule, which is our
top rated one so far as.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
It should be. Ridicule was fucking great.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
And then I believe we're looking at yeah, we're looking
at Juvenile from season four, which is another great one.
So this was a lot of fun. I guess we
need to roll another episode, though, don't we.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
I don't know that fun is the apt word, but
this was really good. I'm in a pretty dark place
right now because all this long Island serial killer research
that I had to do.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
You know, if you want to stay in that dark place,
I highly recommend a podcast called Man in the Window,
which is about the Golden State killer who was eventually apprehended.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
But thanks Steff Michelle McNamara.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
Yeah, so partially there was a big actually network people
that were all trolling, believe it or not, DNA databases
like twenty three and meters, and they were able to
find information about the guy who ended up being a killer,
who was a police officer, in which one of the
reasons why he wasn't necessarily found in the first place.
But in my mind it had some parallels to this.
There was a lot of times where the police themselves

(45:20):
were the reason this guy wasn't being found. This story
is just the most disturbing shit you're ever going to
hear in your life. It was at the time my
wife was having to stay in a town called Longview
in North Texas, so she was away from me for
months at a time. So the thing with this Garden
State Killer, one of the things.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
He would do is he Golden State Golden State Killer.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
Garden State wasn't a wasn't in Jersey, No, sure wasn't,
but the Golden State Killer. One of the things he
would do is people would laugh about him. He was
a kind of a peeping town and they would be like, oh,
he might be outside the window. And there was one
case where a girl was saying to her boyfriend who
was over, oh ha haha, what if he's outside the
window right now. And she went and looked behind the
curtains and the guy was fucking standing there staring at her. Anyways,

(46:01):
disturbing stuff like this. One time, my wife woke up
in the middle of the night called me at one
am because there were people outside her window at this
apartment in Longview. Turns out they were just working on
the air conditioner there. But holy shit, it gave me
a heart attack.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Why was she having to spend all this time in Longview, Texas?

Speaker 3 (46:16):
She had to do a rotation there they do this,
and so she was doing surgeries up there basically because
they have hospitals there too.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
And were they lighting her cut?

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Yeah, they let her cut. She does all kinds of cutting,
of course. Nowadays. Mostly it's like, you know, these cool
arthroscopic devices that they use, but were laparoscopic?

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Sorry to be technical, No, I want you to be technical. Yea,
what does laparoscopic mean?

Speaker 3 (46:39):
I don't know exactly. Is it roboticized or something? Basically, yes,
So basically you're shoving these kind of long needles that
have little hand grip things at the end of them
into people and they're kind of like grabbers. So like
the grabber you used to get the hair ball out
of your drain or.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
The trash in the lake on the cleanup days. Exactly,
Keep Austin beautiful.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Only this one. You're using to cut people's arteries and
cauterize them so you can you remove their junk. Exactly.
Whatever you're removing, give them tubul igations and hysterectomies and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
What they'd be used for appendectomies too.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
Yeah, probably exactly. She doesn't do appendectomies, that's somebody else.
But she does do pistectomies, and it's not entirely different.
So I think we've reached the time in the episode
where we have to hit the randomizer.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Button holding my breath.

Speaker 4 (47:27):
I make that fun.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
I just pressed the button. It gave me one thirty one,
which is an episode from season six called Hooked. It's
another Jean de Segonzac directed episode we've seen many many times.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
So Hooked is from season six. It's episode fifteen. If
we look at the summary at Law and Order fandoms wiki.
The detectives discover that a murdered teenage girl was a
prostitute and had contracted HIV while working on a pornographic
film which leads them to her killer. This episode has

(48:03):
oh sweet. This episode has Hayden Panitieri in it, one
of her two performances. But this is not the one
where she's a child. This is the one where she
is presumably older, because the other one she's in when
she's like five is much weirder. So this is one
of the Hayden Pantiery episodes, so that should be fun.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World, Josh, Indeed, I'm pumped. Indeed,
all right, well I'll talk to you then.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, sounds great.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
All right, have a good one.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Looking forward to this one. I like that Tomorrow seems

(49:49):
pleased that Olivia got her screw on.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Yeah, he does. I also like that he can tell,
you know, he hasn't been her partner for twelve seasons
like Stabler had been, but he knows.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
He can probably can he can probably he can probably
smell Harry Conne Junior's cumner.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Absolutely, thank you for that.

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15 - Amaro's Peculiar Sense of Smell (S13E15 Hunting Ground)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}15 - Amaro's Peculiar Sense of Smell (S13E15 Hunting Ground)