April 28, 2025 • 54 mins
Adam's Paternity Leave continues, so we'll re-release a stunt-casty ep with some pretty left turns. Patreon payments are frozen for the time being. A few resourceful new Munchies have figured out a work-around where you can join as a free member and upgrade from there to a paid account which charges you for one month and unlocks the back catalog behind the respective tier of the paywall. After that first payment, you won't be charged again until we're dropping new content (which we'll warn everyone is coming), so if you want more of this it can be had, along with access to the fully uncut episodes from 100 to present and Movie Club episodes.
Law And Order: SVU frequently takes the viewer to uncomfortable places, and co-hosts Josh and Adam are no strangers to the depths of the criminal imagination. Still, they were not fully prepared for this vertiginous descent into the tawdry wrinkled world of swinging elder sex. If you want an in-depth discussion of the ethics of mercy killing, the NYPD’s somewhat lax emergency first aid standards, and whether or not one should speak to the police while wearing nothing but a fully open robe and a smirk, then you've come to the right podcast. Benson, Stabler and the rest of the squad are joined by stars Jane Krakowski and Anthony Rapp for "Bound" (Season 5, Episode 23). This will definitely leave you "satisfied." Enjoy!
Music:
Divorcio Suave - "Munchy Business"
Thanks to our gracious Munchies on Patreon: Jeremy S, Jaclyn O, Amy Z, Diana R, Tony B, Zak B, Barry W, Drew D, Nicky R, Stuart, Jacqi B, Natalie T, Robyn S, Christine L, Amy A, Sean M, Jay S, Briley O, Asteria K, Suzanne B, Tim Y, John P, John W, Elia S, Rebecca B, Lily, Sarah L, Melsa A, Alyssa C, Johnathon M, Tiffany C, Brian B, Kate K, Whitney C, Alex, Jannicke HS, Roni C, and Nourhane B - y’all are the best!
Be a Munchie, too! Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/munchmybenson
Be sure to check out our other podcast diving into long unseen films of our guests’ youth: Unkind Rewind at our website or on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts
Follow us on: BlueSky, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, and Reddit (Adam’s Twitter/BlueSky and Josh's BlueSky/Letterboxd/Substack)
Join our Discord: Munch Casts Server
Check out Munch Merch: Munch Merch at Zazzle
Check out our guest appearances:
Both of us on: FMWL Pod (1st Time & 2nd Time), Storytellers from Ratchet Book Club, Chick-Lit at the Movies talking about The Thin Man, and last but not least on the seminal L&O podcast …These Are Their Stories (Adam and J
Law And Order: SVU frequently takes the viewer to uncomfortable places, and co-hosts Josh and Adam are no strangers to the depths of the criminal imagination. Still, they were not fully prepared for this vertiginous descent into the tawdry wrinkled world of swinging elder sex. If you want an in-depth discussion of the ethics of mercy killing, the NYPD’s somewhat lax emergency first aid standards, and whether or not one should speak to the police while wearing nothing but a fully open robe and a smirk, then you've come to the right podcast. Benson, Stabler and the rest of the squad are joined by stars Jane Krakowski and Anthony Rapp for "Bound" (Season 5, Episode 23). This will definitely leave you "satisfied." Enjoy!
Music:
Divorcio Suave - "Munchy Business"
Thanks to our gracious Munchies on Patreon: Jeremy S, Jaclyn O, Amy Z, Diana R, Tony B, Zak B, Barry W, Drew D, Nicky R, Stuart, Jacqi B, Natalie T, Robyn S, Christine L, Amy A, Sean M, Jay S, Briley O, Asteria K, Suzanne B, Tim Y, John P, John W, Elia S, Rebecca B, Lily, Sarah L, Melsa A, Alyssa C, Johnathon M, Tiffany C, Brian B, Kate K, Whitney C, Alex, Jannicke HS, Roni C, and Nourhane B - y’all are the best!
Be a Munchie, too! Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/munchmybenson
Be sure to check out our other podcast diving into long unseen films of our guests’ youth: Unkind Rewind at our website or on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts
Follow us on: BlueSky, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, and Reddit (Adam’s Twitter/BlueSky and Josh's BlueSky/Letterboxd/Substack)
Join our Discord: Munch Casts Server
Check out Munch Merch: Munch Merch at Zazzle
Check out our guest appearances:
Both of us on: FMWL Pod (1st Time & 2nd Time), Storytellers from Ratchet Book Club, Chick-Lit at the Movies talking about The Thin Man, and last but not least on the seminal L&O podcast …These Are Their Stories (Adam and J
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
What do you mean.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
When I was in nursing school, I see daughters by
their mother's beds, trapped, watching their lives disappear.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
So you help them.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I set them free.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
How many were there?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Dozens?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Do you remember any of their names?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
They were all called Mama.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
In New York City, sexually based offenses, they're considered especially heinous.
These are their stories. Welcome to munch My Benson. My
name's Adam. I live in Galveston. I'm joined on the
line by Josh. How are you doing out there? Josh?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Well, I'm doing all right, I guess all things considered. Yeah,
so you listeners will be listening to this way in
the future, because we're moving ahead in advance of Adam's
the kid that's on the way in Yeah, Switter's household,
(01:32):
looming fatherhood. Yes, so we are recording this in the
middle of all of the police riots, the yeah, the
police protests, and the riots that are ensuing that are
seem to be fomented by the police at every turn.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Almost hopefully, when you all are listening to this in
the future, there have been good results from what has
gone on, but where I'm things don't look very good
for our old Republic right now, it's looking kind of bleak,
kind of depressing.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, it's feeling a lot like Interwar Germany here.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Sure is it? Sure? Sure is? So? Instead of thinking
about the looming demise of representational government, let's talk about
an episode of Law and Orders for you, Josh. This
week we are covering an episode called Bound. It's from
season five. It was episode twenty three. It's an interesting one.
(02:37):
It has some fun things, and it also kind of
falls apart at the end. But let's just get into it.
I'll give a little recap and then we can talk
about it. A realtor and a client walk into a
brownstone discussing the price when they find an elderly woman
who'd been strangled to death and a live elderly man
in the midst of having a heart attack. This will
(02:57):
surely affect the sale price. Sbu arrives and immediately suspects
the dying man of the dead woman's murder. The woman's
daughter informs the cops that the old lady did a
lot of entertaining. If you know what I mean by that,
I mean she had lots and lots of old sex.
Now we meet a few of her paramours, including a
(03:19):
wizened tango instructor and a twenty something scumbag wearing an
open silk purple robe who is an extremely gross piece
of shit. Richard Sutton, aka the old man with the
heart attack, has had three dead former wives and a
current living one who has Alzheimer's and who's been placed
in a dingy nursing home while he lives off her
ample estate. He's got to be the purp right. An
(03:43):
interview with the intubated Sutton reveals that Emmy Warner had
screwed up her timeline of the death and that Sutton
was almost certainly not the purp. George Wong searches the
FBI database for similar crimes, and two cold cases are
found that match the crime precisely, with elderly women killed
the exact same kind of climbing rope. Uh oh, it's
(04:04):
a serial killer. As it turns out, all three victims
had cancer and had utilized the same in home care
service one RDH, which is crawling with recognizable celebs, including
Jane Krakowski as an Emma Spevak, the nurse manager, and
Anthony Rapp as Matt Spevak, the doctor in charge. You
(04:24):
know what that means well. All three Vics had doctor
Spevak's foundation listed as the primary beneficiary in their wills.
Uh Oh. Spevak was also an inveterate gambling addict and
was cooking his foundation's books to cover his debts. To
boot he was an avid rock climber. It's not looking
good for doctor Spevak. Heard evidence, though, is lacking, so
(04:48):
Sbu opt to put the screws into the sister, who
must have been a co conspirator, only to find her
with ligature marks around her neck just like the other Vics.
A search leads them to the home of one of
o Hardh's patience, where they find a dead old lady
on a bed and doctor Spivac himself dead from a
gunshot wound and festooned with climbing rope. Csu tech Judas,
(05:10):
Cipher and Wong both find strange inconsistencies in the crime scene,
which casts doubt on the original theory of the scene.
The lady had been killed by a stroke caused by
an injection of air into her blood, and there is
no syringe found at the scene. Now it must have
been Emma. They find Emma watching some old home movies
that show her brother having loads and loads of fun
(05:31):
with their now dead mother while Emma stands around looking
very sad. As a coincidence, the mother had also died
from a stroke, but in order to exhume the body
to determine if that stroke had been caused by an
air embolist, Novak needs to travel to Judge Siegelman's house
at night, only to find like every single SVU judge
hanging out there playing poker together. Now she gets the
(05:53):
necessary warrant, they exhume the lady and they find the
needle mark on the corpse. A little game angry abusive
male comp and frightened a lady comp played by Elliott
and Olivia do eventually get Emma to admit to her crimes,
including killing literally dozens of old ladies who, in her words,
were all called Mama. The end, I call this one
(06:22):
a throw Mama from the train.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Dick Wolf can't wait, can't wait for audio to be
cut in from that.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Because that seems to be That seems to be the
takeaways that all moms need to fucking die.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yes, yeah, he sick.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
What a dream mom is having?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Really?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I'm so trying to sell me this get away from me,
you who's his ass? Whoever wrote this episode really had
some Freudian issues here?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Yeah, no shit, let's uh, well that's not a big deal.
Anythings really stand out from this episode to you. It
was definitely she was an angel of mercy, but in
a weird way because so typically angels of mercy, and
there's been a few of them, including one Neil's Hoogel,
a German nurse who killed something like four hundred people,
(07:16):
And typically what angels of nursey do is they see
people that are suffering and they choose to put them
out of their misery, kind of like a youth and
asia like you do with a dog. Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
But she started doing this when she was in nursing
school though, And I don't think the implication with those
early deaths is that they were also terminal, like later
on we have valid or we have verification that well,
two of the three that sort of bring this case
(07:49):
to the serial killer area, two of the three were terminal.
One was in remission. Yeah, so that's already one person
that she's killed was in remission.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
She's not being an angel mercy for the victims the
people she kills. She's killing for the daughters.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yes, for the daughters. For the daughters, because they all
are daughters of mothers. Yeah, apparently daughters of mothers have
the undying urge to see their mothers die.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah. No, ship man.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Wow, it gets really dark in that last scene.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Rough statement, it's kind of funny because it gets so
dark at the end, Yet at the same time, the
episode has kind of gone off the rails at this point, like,
you know, the plot kind of grinds to a halt
because we've gone through a couple really big twists and turns,
and it's just kind of hard to really fly with.
With the scene where she's watching the films, it just
(08:43):
kind of it's just kind of died at this point,
So you know, you're watching, you're kind of in a daze,
and then she's just like they were all mothers. At
the end, You're like, wait, what do you what now?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Oh god, Yeah, it's okay. So I remembered this episode
and I knew that Krakowski was the killer, So that
takes a little bit of the fun out of it
for you. And once you've seen this episode, it's pretty
hard to forget that she turns out to be a
random's like Mother serial killer. So there's it's weird watching
it knowing what's going to happen. Should we skip back
(09:18):
to the beginning? It's the ending we obviously kind of
needed to address right away.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, no, shit, I think we should talk about all
the famous people in this first, and then we'll get
to you and then we'll I mean, I think the plot,
I don't know, we'll go through some of the more
fun bits, but I think we really need to talk.
There's a lot of famous people in this episode, kind
of headlined by Krakowski and Anthony Rapp, Right, you want
to talk about either one of them. Jane Kurkowski's been
(09:44):
in a bunch of different stuff. To me, she will
always be cousin Vicky from National Lampoon's Vacation back in
nineteen eighty three. But she's probably much more famous to you,
as you know, she was in most of Ali McBeal.
She is in uh all of thirty Rock. That's probably
where she's Jenna Maroney from thirty Rock. That's probably her
(10:06):
biggest role. But she's been in tons of stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
She was in Unbreakable COMMI Schmid, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, so I mean tons and tons of stuff. She's
highly recognizable. First time I saw her in my hackles
always get raised when I see a famous person in SBU.
You know, it's like, oh, they must have done it.
And when I saw her, I'm like, holy shit, it
must have been her.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And then but there are two of them, and so
there's the weird like, okay, well it's one of these too, clearly, yeah, exactly.
Even if you haven't seen this episode before, you know
it's either the brother or the sister. It's either Matt
or Ammas feedback. Anthony Rap of course was in he
was Darryl in Adventures and Babysitting exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Thank you for calling that out first. I was worried
you were going to say something else.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Now fuck that shit. No, he was Darryl in Adventures Babysitting.
He's also in Daisy Confused.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Tony the nerdy guy.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, yeah, the nerdy guy who's trying to get with
the get with the like kind of creepy. She's like
what fifteen or sixteen? Yeah, going to be a senior,
I think, or she's going to be a freshman and
he's going to be a senior.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
He was in school Ties. So dick Wolf connection there
since Dick Wolf wrote School Ties, and he was he
was in Rent. He was the narrator in Rent. And
for people who weren't like cognizant of the world in
the nineties, Rent was basically the nineties version of Hamilton.
It was the it was the musical of that decade
(11:32):
that like permeated the sort of social consciousness like Hamilton has.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, fuck that shit.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, he's also he's in uh, he's in Star Trek
Enterprise now. Oh and obviously the probably most important aspect
of the Anthony rap.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, and the one story that ties.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, he was the He was the first accuser to
come forward and named Kevin Spacey as a Spacey basically
prepped on him when he was fourteen. They were both
they were in concurrent Broadway State or Broadway productions, and
(12:18):
Spacey put the moves on him at his apartment.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah. And it's a really creepy story.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Sor Yeah, it's and that's what set off the He
was the first accuser to name Spacey, and then at
least fourteen more have named Spacey as being like serial
sexual predator.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah. It was in nineteen eighty six. This was before
Spacey was famous.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
He was in he was basically in Miami Vice at
this point.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, he was in a supporting role in a Broadway
production of Long Day's Journey in Tonight, starring Jack Lemon
in this version, and Rapp was also on Broadway at
the time. He was in Precious Sons with Ed Harris
and Judith Ivy, and they were both the way they met,
they were both receiving a lot of praise on Broadway,
(13:05):
and so they had a big party for both different
productions that kind of mixed and that's how we met him.
And then rap didn't know who Kevin Spacey was after
the event happened, and Rapp was at a movie theater
when he was sixteen he saw working Girl and he
saw Kevin Spacey on screen and a working girl and
(13:28):
basically had a you know, a PTSD trauma attack because
it was the first time he'd ever seen him on screen.
Had no idea really who he was, you know, as
far as being a famous person. And of course Kevin
Spacey after that would go on to become a very
famous person. So very upsetting shit, but good on Anthony.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Rapp coming forward. We also first disclosed actually in two
thousand and one in an article in The Advocate. Yeah,
but there was there was there were legal ramifications that
recluded them from being able to name Spacey then, but
he wanted to then, It's just they couldn't legally do it.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
But I mean he should he Uh, I mean it's
got to take a lot of guts to come forward
about a guy who was massive in Hollywood. Massive. All right,
so we get back to uh, I guess it's more
fun the stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, so let's kick him back to the top. Sure, First,
before we go back to the beginning, we should probably
note that at this point in time, the like level
of fame between Anthony Rapp and Jane Kerkowski is roughly
equivalent to one another.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Like, I mean he's he's the narrator in fucking Rent,
you know, like he he was a very noticeable star.
She had she had basically she had essentially just been
in Ally mcbeial. She had a ton of other credits,
but her big role was Ally mcbeil. Would have gone
off the air two years earlier.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, but thirty Rock hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So, Yeah, thirty Rock hasn't happened yet, so like exactly, so,
like they're sort of like the equivalent of the fame
equivalent of one another.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Oh well, well, we're still talking about famous people. I
think we're burying the lead because we get yet another
wire tie in in this episode because Jimmy McNulty's ex
wife is Anthony Rapp's attorney.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
The Wire and homicide Life on the Street. Yeah, she
was in the unit with Munch on homicide and so
then she pops up here and this is I think
this is a second episode that she's in as Nicky Stains.
She actually has a weird like late season arc. She
pops up in season nineteen and twenty in two kind
(15:40):
of big two big like mythology episodes.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Essentially, of course, we're talking about Callie Thorne. Yes, the
actress who.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Is good as also to rescue me.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, she is. She's in a bunch of recent seasons. Interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, but she put she went like twelve she went
I think twelve years in between episodes of SVU and
then got reintroduced as a defense attorney.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
But same character, she's in the game, same game. Yeah,
she's Nicky Stains throughout. Huh. All right, so okay, let's
go back to this top. Now we've talked about the
actors involved.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Well, just wait, should we talk about the nurse also?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Please?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So the nurse who when they when they first get
to the hospital.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Of the nurses, no, so so their first, they're one
of their first, like when they first start keying in
on the home care company RDH. All signs point to
this nurse who was one of their in home nurses.
And his name in the show is Gary Devall and
he had been fired from RDH and was now working
for Meals on Wheels delivering meals to elderly people. And
(16:42):
this actor is very hard to track down. He's not
listed in the IMDb page, he's not listed in the
credits of the show, and he's not on the fandom
bookie page either. Now we will continue to do some
research on this and hopefully by the time we air
this we will actually have found who gets is. But
at the moment, it's a big who done it? And
(17:03):
he has more than one scene. It's not an under
five throwaway character.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I've yet to see an under five knock get credited. Yeah, so,
I don't know what the hell's going on here. Maybe
he's just a ghost from three minute a baby.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I don't Yeah, it's possible. It's possible he's standing there
in the window. But he had a really fun bit.
But I guess we'll get there in a second.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
But yeah, okay, so should we go back to the
beginning now?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
The cold open was pretty fun.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I gotta say, yeah, yeah, So I love when Sutton's
croaking on the sidewalk.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
The EMT asked Elliott if you know CPR, yeah, which
I sort of laughed, assuming cops hadn't know it.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, they do have to know CPR.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Only kind of. So I did a dive on this
because I was like, I've always I've been CPR certified
a bunch of times, yeah, in different states. I was
always under the impression that cops had to be CPR certified.
In New York, however, officers did not have to be
certified in CPR until twenty seventeen. What Yes. This was
(18:08):
the subject of controversial case in twenty ten where a
ten year old girl, Brianna Ojeeda, suffered an asthma attack
that led her mother, Carmen Ohada, to rush her off
to the hospital. Her mother turned the wrong way down
a one way street, and officer Alfonso Mendez pulled her over,
but refused to administer CPR, later saying that he'd only
(18:28):
learned CPR from a textbook and never practiced.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Not a dummy, Holy shit.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
So after issuing a citation, Mendes followed the car that
Ojeda was driving, didn't lead her, followed the vehicle to
the hospital. So CPR was something that NYPD taught its officers,
but apparently not well. Brianna was pronounced dead an hour
(18:55):
after battling through traffic on the way to the hospital,
with neither of police nor a nine to one one
call made by officer Mendez. It took seven years for
Brianna's law to get through, to get through the gears
of justice in Albany. But now officers need to recertify
every two years. This is as of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
They need to recertify every two years, like I do
to to.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Like we did at the boat. Yeah, to give a tour,
and that was unofficial. That was that was just you know,
our boss doing that because he thought it was right. Yeah,
this is insane. I mean I've been like a CPR
first aid was like certified before because I was a
lifeguard way back in the day.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Nowadays, the coast Guard makes me get certified.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
But yeah, surely they would.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah that's yeah, but uh wow, I'm.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, I'm kind of nicheless fucking shocking, but I'm also
like a hunt. Until twenty seventeen in New York, cops
didn't have to be fucking CPR certified.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And you wonder why people are ups it. That's shocking.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Ten year old girl died. W cop didn't ever get
he got to look at CPR in a textbook.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
He didn't call an ambulance on his little shoulder radio.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Wow, nope, didn't turn on his lights, didn't guide the
car to the fucking hospital.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
All right, like common sense ship whatever. Okay, So uh
so stable gives five chest compressions tops yeah, and then
they bust out the defibrillator.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah. I mean, which is it's just fair. You're supposed
to give compressions until until they have something.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I love.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I love the e MT like asking do you know CPR?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I know?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And then it's okay, you have the defib you have
the defib out like four seconds later.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
The compressions are if you need to, because you're if
you're doing compressions right, you're gonna break the rib gage.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I gotta say that the Sutton character, he doesn't. He does.
He's the Sudden character, is asked to do so much
work with ship on his.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Face, doesn't get to talk.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
In this scene, he has a he has like a
breathe and oxygen mask on his face, and they're wheeling
him out to the ambulance from the house and he's
like Elliott's questioning him while he's he has this mask
on his face and he's like basically mumble moaning something
that you can't understand, and Ellen, I'm sorry. Yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Detective stamp Loo, can you tell me what happens?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
It's just sudden, tell me what happened.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I'm sorry for what.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Later on, of course he's interviewed while he's literally intubated. Uh,
and so he has to write down his answers. It's
really good he has. He's asked to do so much,
and he's actually one of my favorite parts. Richard Easton
is the name of the actor, and he did great
sort of.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Recalls those scenes in Uh, how fuck what was the
name of the episode where the girl has her mouth
wire shot?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah exactly, that was uh yeah, pretend from season eight
that that makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Uh, and so that was episode uh, episode fourteen.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Okay, so back to bound. I also really like the
the look on the realtor's face when she realized that
there was a dead body there. It wasn't that shock
that there's a dead body here. It was it was
just like a.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Goddamn it, there goes this sale. Yeah, god damn it.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Do you know how much Mike.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I was gonna make. I was gonna make fucking.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, you're five percent commission on whatever? A two million
dollars sale. Yeah, let's see. So we we go to
the Boy Toys to start with, and it's all very funny,
this kind of They actually lead us down some really
good paths on this episode without until we find the
real culprits and the Boy Toy man so gross.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I think this is the best performance in the episode.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
This This guy is so problematic.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
This guy is so great. I mean, like I really
every line that comes out of your mouth, we could
just drop.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Into this episode.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
We could just drop in all of his dialogue and
everyone's jaw would drop if they've not seen this episode.
This guy is such a grief that's a big deal.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Say about a foot of your age difference, you should
try it. Older women, they have more experience, they're less inhibited,
and you don't have to worry about getting him knocked up.
Forgot to mention financially independent.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Donna has a lot of dough.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Definitely sweetens the pot. So he's wearing a purple silk
robe that's just open and we don't see below its waist,
so we have no idea what's down there.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Oh, he's hanging dong. He's hanging dong like Stable and
Benson are both just like sitting there having a look
at this guy's junk. There's no way, there's no way
this guy is not open robing it and just fucking
free wheeling the whole time.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
When informed of the death of a woman he had
had sex with last night, he says she was fine
when I left her.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
No, I take that back.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
She was satisfying.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
It's a fucking hell. It's so good. Uh So so
we get there because like her her instructor at Hot
to Trot. Yeah, it was also amazing. I'm assuming I was.
I was kind of hoping for Bobcat Goldthwaite to pop up,
but I guess we're not going to get that. No,
So instead instead it's this old guy, Harvey Cohen, who
(24:45):
taught her how to tango.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
He was a respectable looking old guy though he had
some yeah panache.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, but he was super jealous because she showed up
with her boy toy Ben uh Ben Pauler m hm,
and so he kicked them out of class because she
was too flirty. Uh fucking hell. Okay, So this guy
I looked him up, Trevor Jones, who plays Ben Poller
b robed Uh yeah, toy Uh he's he's he's now
(25:20):
a line producer. He he doesn't really have a lot
of acting credits. He only has a few ton and
he jumps to being a producer. He's a credits and
he was an a D two. But yeah, yeah, why
is he not still acting?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I know he was. He was solid, really solid. Yeah,
a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
I mean, wardrobe helps him out a lot. Here he
is wearing the sleaziest purple robe ever. But he, I
mean he lip he like licks his chops and steps
into like just tears into the lines. You should try it.
Older women, they have more experience, they're less inhibited. You
don't have to worry about getting them knocked up.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
So gross, I mean, there's so many good lines from
him he has. I think he has all of the
best lines except for one that Warner says that is uh,
I guess. I mean, we've already heard the rundown, so
we can talk about it. Because while we're talking about
great lines, Warner is talking about the woman that is
(26:24):
found dead next to Anthony Rapp's character. Vivia Callis did
have a stroke, but it wasn't caused by fear puncture
mark on her neck.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I missed it at first because her skin is so wrinkled,
this wrinkly old bag. I almost missed it.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Oh my god. There's a lot of fucking anti old
shit going on in this episode, and I am here.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
For So when we come back to the precinct, Kragan
asks what's he doing? What's he doing hanging around with
a queen of the charity? Yeah, and I'm like, maybe
his balls are the ones receiving charity.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
That's right, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Especially, I mean, that's not that's not out of school,
that that question. This episode puts everything on the table
with elder sex.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, support these balls. You know, there's a lot of
kind of fun little side character roles in this episode.
I think that's kind of it's like a story of
these like side characters. So the next group is that
we find the two other victims, uh, and we meet
the husband of one of them and the son of
the other one, And both of these roles were fantastic too.
(27:37):
Zelman the old man is. I found this to be
a very problematic scene because he's got like a black
nurse pushing him in his wheelchair while he's talking to
the cops. And she's never even acknowledged by any of
the speaking actors. It's not even they don't even look
at her, she doesn't nod to them, nothing. But he
(27:59):
was kind.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
But I suspect that it may not be racial, and
that it's really that all of the principal cast on,
all of the main cast on the show probably hates background.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yeah that's true. But still like I felt bad for
her in that scene because it's just like, man, you
look like a fucking just a prop as a beating
heart and would like to get a credit in this,
you know.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, I mean she got a featured background. She got
a featured background bump at least. Yeah, so there is
that it could be worse. She got more than all
the other fucking boners that are like sitting sitting in
scenes where you can't see their face prominently.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah. Now, the other son is a real scumbag. He
works at a car dealership, and he has not said
that his mother was murdered, And by.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
By giving him that occupation, we we get the very
shorthand version of this guy's shipper.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Yeah, this guy, this guy has zero morals.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
And yeah, he's a car salesman. Yeah, he's the worst.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
He'd sell your mother to. Yeah. And then after that
we find the incologists, because it kind of is a
kind of rapid fire path through these different people, and
the ancologist is the one that eventually leads us to
rd H. The in home care provider. Now, the oncologists
immediately when they bring up the fact that several of
(29:17):
his patients had been murdered, said well, if I'd done it,
I would have done a better job at murdering them,
so you wouldn't even know.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Well, it's not even that. I really think he's hinting
that he's doctor Kavorkian and he euthanizes his terminal patients
on the rag.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yeah, no shit, maybe, but he's so.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Fucking good at it. That they're never going to catch him,
so what the fuck ever?
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, maybe he's actually the allusion to Neil's Hogel, the
German super serial killer. Like, seriously read about this guy
four hundred plus victims.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
But I mean he does say that his patients are
paying for this kind of care, this level of care,
and you know, if you want to be put out
of your misery.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
This level of care includes dying peacefully.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, I'm totally pro mercy killing.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
I gotta say, just kind of step aside. Like only
the only on SVU moments in this There's no other
show that has an oncologist on for a you know,
three line segment where one of the lines has him
speculating about killing his elderly patients and how he would
get away with it. There's no other show.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Not how just that he would. Yeah exactly if I
were doing this, there wouldn't be a fucking trace lady.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
So good on them for that. I mean really like
Bravo SVU. Of course. Respected Dignity Health is the name
of the in home care provider, and we kind of
briefly mentioned the Gary Devaal character. He has some great
lines and I really want to feature this guy and
talk about him because he has this back and forth
(30:54):
with his with his meals on wheels lady that where
he's getting taken in by the cops and he's basically like, sorry,
old brod, I'm not gonna hang out with you today,
and she's like, but you're the only one who visits me.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
But then he's like, he'll be back tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean, he was kind of nice to her,
and then he says stuff like the bitches lying getting
fired was the best thing that ever happened to me.
And also I'd never rip off Susan, she was a sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with anything that he says here. Yeah,
I mean Brooks, Donna Brooks is basically a completely selfish
He missed who anyone who did work for her, she
probably would treat like shit.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Yeah, absolutely, fuck that lady. And what does she need
to roll up?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
She docked him because he was ten minutes late. She
docked him pay because he was ten minutes late.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
It's New York City, the subways run late. All sorts
of things happened. Yeah, old bruh, I really think that's
an effort. I think that I like his his scenes.
Does that change how we feel about the first vic?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Like at first she was just getting her bone on,
you know, but now it's like, Okay, well she was
kinda like terrible to her in home healthcare provider.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So are you saying that it's likely that this episode
is pro killing the elderly, Like it's basically like a
Logan's run for New York City.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I don't know that she was. We don't know that
she was ever convicted.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
It's true, we don't, and we don't know the full
story behind the dozens of other victims. We do know
that the mom was a piece of shit because we
see evidence of the mom straight up ignoring her and playing.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Super eight, that super film trip that she clearly just
watches on a loop in like the dark. She watches
that every day.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It's the saddest shit you're ever gonna see, the Super
eight strip with like her just like standing there in
the background while her little brother is, well, her twin
brother is getting all sorts of praise and affection from mom.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Oh my god, that is the slash funniest. So like
you're sad for a second and then you're like, Jesus
fucking Christ, this is in this episode, this fucking thing
is crazy.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Yeah. So, I mean I'm saying
that we don't know enough about the other victims to
really judge whether it was justified or not. But the
two that we kind of do know enough about, it
seems totally justified. Like they both deserved it.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
So yeah, and they were terminal, so whatever.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, it's the it's the.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Sorry kind of calous. But that's kind of what the
I think, that's kind of what the show is having
us believe. Yeah, because because the two that the two
that are terrible of the three, the two that are
terrible were terminal.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah. No, Well, and really, what did these women have
to offer society anymore? They were literally just a burden.
They were just a burden on everyone, on the healthcare system,
on their daughters, on their poll.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Okay, so she should We should probably jump back for
a second too, when we when when we're back on
Sutton is potentially being the perp uh, and they go
to where he's dumped his money, but Alzheimer's wife mm
in a home below well below her means yeah, and
she's sitting there and she's like looking for a telegram
(34:19):
from President Trump. Yeah, sorry, President Truman.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Truman.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah yeah, President Truman, just sitting there like really.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, yeah, they're pretty cruel to that old lady too. Uh.
You know, honestly, though I was thinking about it, that
nursing home did not look that bad, you know, they
it was. It was another case of like, we need
to come up with a name for this syndrome, because
it's come up. It showed up in the second episode
of SVU that we did when we covered Haunted, that
(34:51):
was in Hot Mike Sandibal comes in the back Door
episode two of Munch of My Benson where Finn is
walking by a perfectly normal suburban home and he says,
this place is a dump, and well.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
It's sort of it's like the detached classism of the
of the elite who don't realize what the world is like.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yeah, and okay, so it might have been the fanciest
looking nursing home, and it definitely was overcrowded, but that
was clearly just a choice from the show. But it
wasn't dirty and there weren't like nurses beating their patients
or anything like that. No, it could definitely get worse
than that.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, it's not like the home that the Home and
Happy Gilmour. It's sort of interesting when they talk about
how Warner, like when Warner realizes she was wrong about
the time of death because of the room temperature and
the fact that Donna had been working out and she
worked out at five am, so like the body temperature
and the rigor that had set in was actually had
(35:49):
had thrown her off, the thrown her off the time
of death, and that instead of being the night before
at like ten pm, it was more like what six
thirty or.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Something, six thirty am, Yeah, because it was so it
was freezing inside the house and she had just worked out,
and so there was this combination. I didn't do enough.
I didn't do any checking to see if that makes
her mouth it? Did it? Like it was some good
science shit going on there.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Theoretically, Yeah, there was.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Actually, like Warner's moments were all really fun because she
had that moment which was like I buy that, And
then she had another one where she just shows up
to show a picture of the mummified neck of the
dead mom which is really fun, just sort of like
gratuitous gore that they have to show us, like here's
a picture of a you know, a woman that's been
(36:38):
dead for seven years. And then and then of course, uh,
my favorite line in the show, puncture wound on her neck.
I missed it at first because her skin is so wrinkled.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Gosh.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
You know. The thing about this episode for me is
that I really liked all the bits that didn't have
the two famous like stunt cast members in it. Really
and they them in it was I felt like a
kind of ground to a halt, like, uh, well.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Because we had such a weird journey to find like
hyper sexually active old people.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah, and you have.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I mean like once they're introduced once, once the real
killers are introduced, we don't get any more of the
boy toy.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
No, we don't get the boy toy. We get we
get a like a nerdy doctor who I don't know
how he has time to be a doctor because he
spends all his time gambling Atlantic City and going rock climbing.
And then the sister who doesn't do anything but just
like plot old people's demise and her brothers. Yeah, now
(37:47):
we get. One of my favorite things in the episode
was when Finn and Munch go to search Speedvac doctor
Spevac's apartment. They you know, this is when they find
out that he's had these gambling debts, and there's just
this perfect answer machine message that plays when Munch hits
the button.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Answering machines blinking probably collection agency.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Heice feedback, you're late again, you better pay up, doc,
but we're coming over. Doesn't sound like Mastercar. It's clearly
just like they grabbed a PA and we're like, hey,
say this line.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, they probably gave that to like the key
set Pa, Key PA got to do that. Yeah, that's
that's just you know, five minutes.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
And then there's another great the other great scene in
the second like the kind of I guess a little
hard to say what the act structure of this episode
is because it goes on such a random winding path,
but sort of in the second half, the best moment
I think is when Novak goes over to the judge's
house and there's the multi judge poker game going on.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Which they like called everyone off the bench figuratively and
I guess literally called everyone off the bench. And so
is gambling still illegal?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
You would think so, but it wasn't clear whether they
had any money on the line.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I don't think these judges hang out with each other
unless they can steal money from one another.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yeah, exactly. But that was a really fun scene because
all those judges are great and you rarely get to
see them doing anything but being just judges on the stand.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah. Yeah, no, I I was kind of into it.
It's weird there are so many of them there that
that they I don't think all of them had a
line in this episode. I don't think so either, so
some of them, some of them just sat there. I
don't know. It was like, I enjoyed having that scene
in there. Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Well, you got anything else to point out before we
get to some of the segments here. I don't have
anything for New York State of Mind this week, but
but go ahead.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So I've got a couple things. It's really weird how
shock Benson is to discover their twins when they're standing
up I know, the over the family grave plot that.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Exactly they're twins.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Like twins, don't I've never met twins? What are they like?
Or like? In Patriot where the father of twin daughters
says that the thing he's his fear in life is twins.
It's one of them something like that. It's super weird.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
I know, I mean it seemed like kind of obvious.
I mean, not obvious, but at least not that crazy
that these people they look to me about the same age.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah, Oh they're twins. That's it. No, I mean it
wasn't a little weird that they already had funeral plots
and they're like, you know, thirty years old.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
But I also think it's funny when Wang comes up
with the idea to reenact the sibling rivalry. So, Wang,
is it just his purpose with the unit to come
up with crazy role playing scenarios?
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Is that his primary function?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Then we get the scene where Stabler plays the shithead
older brother to Benson. He says the like the line,
I think it's the lone, but like the walk off
line is, women shouldn't be cops, they shouldn't be doctors.
They're two weak and stupid.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, he really likes, really selling this whole role play.
So and then and then uh, she says, Kurkowski says,
mothers are all the same. You try to be good
to them and all they do is treat you like dirt.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Yeah, man, that line at the end.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, Well, and then she says it always works so
and then it yeah, they were all named Mama, and
she says it always works so quickly, and you're like, wait,
what always always? And then she reveals dozens of fucking
elder elder, maternal elder. I guess it's not what mattrass
(42:03):
side if it's not your mother.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, it's only mattress side if it's your mother.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I mean she did commit mattresside once, yes, and then
it was like, I guess mattriss side by proxy. I
gut you could say for these for these other embattled daughters,
you will never get out from the specter of their
mother's judgment. Now.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Interestingly enough, besides, uh, I guess Donna Brooks, the two
victims that we kind of go down the rabbit hole with,
we don't see their daughters ever. We see their shitthead
son and their their elderly husband, but we don't see
the daughters. Maybe she's branching out and just killing whomever
at this point because she's sick of Yeah, she's discriminate
(42:43):
embolises to uh daughter mothers.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Well, yeah, I mean she's clearly like her herm is
sort of advancing yeahs as her as her rage builds.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yeah, because at this point, I guess it's less about
killing the old women than it is about uh, punishing
her brother. I mean that's what she's moved on to
the climbing rope. So yeah, now we can start ranking
this thing. We rank these episodes every week and we
do it on a ten point scale. We have four
(43:15):
different criteria that we rank on. We do it on
the quality, the guess how problematic it was, and how
ruined these people's lives were by the course of the episode,
and then we create a composite score based off of
all those criteria. So let's where do you think about
the quality. Let's just start at the top now. For me,
(43:37):
this one was kind of mixed because it had some
really good stuff in it, and it also kind of
it just kind of fell apart as far as just
the driving plot to the end would be my biggest
problem with it.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, the quality is all front loaded. Yeah, and then
when we get to the two big guests, you know,
starting in I don't think either one is really in
it before act too.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Right, Yeah, definitely not. No, they're not in it for
quite a while. We go through we burned through like
four different suspects before we even get to them.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, and so they're they're really not involved until they're
there too. Bring this toy to a halt from the
episode to a halt, at least not the story, I guess.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I mean I don't think that either of them are bad.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
No, I don't think so either. I just think the
I just think the show kind of goes off the rails.
I think that.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yeah, it's sort of like it's paced in such a
weird way that everything is interesting. Everything that's interesting is
in the first the cold open, in the first two acts. Yeah,
and so then we're just left, we're left to sort
of like play out the string. There's so much insane
elder stuff that it's actually kind of funny. Yeah, it's
fun I think it's I think it's good, but it's
sort of like it's ultimately middling because of how how
(44:54):
it whimpers through the final two acts. You want to
put a number on it, I'd say five, or you.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Say five or six? Okay, I was going to say four,
So let's say five. Five. Yeah. Now it has again,
it has Anthony Rapp and Jane Krakowski, So it's got
a couple of big stars in it, and it had
a lot of really fun smaller parts, so a lot
the guess it's gotta be kind of high on guests.
I'm going to say eight for the guests because I
(45:20):
thought it was a lot of fun there, and.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
There's so many, so many of the bit parts that
Ben Paller, the nurse Gary, yeah named nurse Gary Deval. Yeah,
they're all pretty great.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
The oncologist was great, I.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Mean, yeah, Kavorkian Oncologists is fucking awesome.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Yeah. A Sutton, Richard Sutton, the guy who has to
speak with the tube and.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Is the guy who basically doesn't. He has to act
through three scenes, act through three scenes and he doesn't
have something covering his mouth in one of them.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah, and that when he's dying from a heart attack,
so he's just moaning.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Yeah, yeah, he was having to add they're putting him
through the fucking ringer in this episode.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yeah, it's so much fun, so much fun. That the
shitty son who's the car salesman, lots of good stuff.
All of it is fun.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, lots of lots of fun with the guest stars.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
And it's also got I gotta be high in this
next one. How problematic it was, because it's pretty problematic.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Oh yeah, I mean every word out of Ben Poller's
mouth is appalling.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Holy shit, it's yeah, yeah, it's it's really something. Holy shit.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I mean it's not a ten. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
No, no, it's not a ten, but it's a seven.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
Maybe it's.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah, I think it's firmly like a seven. Mate, you
could probably convince me to go eight and seven.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
We'll say seven and a half. I like seven and
a half because it definitely is uh, it's definitely, man,
it goes to some places. Now, this last one might
be a little controversial, though, because how do we even
describe how ruined people's lives were because they are on
the verge of death.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
We don't know that. We only know that two of
them were on the verge of death. We don't know
how many others were actually terminal. But they all this
fuck yeah they owe. But she also murdered these mothers
of people, like she murdered dozens of people, and the
fallout has to be pretty fucking big. Yeah, because she
(47:24):
presumes that they don't like their mother, but she's projecting,
and holy shit, she kills so many people.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
And it's not just her because her brother, remember, has
convinced all these other ladies to bequest him all their
money in their minds, yeah, I'm sorry to bequeath him
all of their money so that he can pay off
his gambling debts. They think they're giving it to charity,
but really he's just ripping them off. So all these
people who think that they are going to inherit, you know,
(47:53):
their mother or wives, you know, whatever the state, find
themselves in the poorhouse or working at a use car dealership.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
It goes to that fucking key set who's on the voice.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah, exactly, So you're right. I mean it definitely does
cause some pain and suffering this episode.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yeah, and it's like, in terms of scale, we probably
are dealing with two episodes so far that have meted
out as much fucking ruination as this one.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yeah, and they both got ten.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
She killed dozens of people.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Yeah, I'm unwilling to go to ten, though I might
go to nine.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
No, I won't go to ten. It's but holy, I mean,
she she fucking kills dozens of people, and on top
of that, her brother is also cheating all of these people.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
Yeah, and on top of that all these old people
are out there having sex ruining their children's lives too.
So think about that too.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Eight eight eight, yeah, eight, I mean it's a lot.
It really is a lot.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Decline and fall we had as an eight and.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
I don't even remember what decline and fall is. We
just did it right.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
It was the last one we did, Josh, and it
was the one where the uh, the old guy raped
his grandson's Like it's been a long.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Week in between I know, shit we last recorded and
what we recorded this time.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
It's it's been like a decade since last week happened.
But uh, but that was the one where the you know,
she was the bartender at the party and the old
and the grandpa raped her.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
But he also presumably raped raped dozens of exactly.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
So that was an eight, and I think.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, this is comparable. Well, but we've got two different
people who were fucking victimizing people in this.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
To make no mention of Ben Pauler or something.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
Yeah, I mean they were all because son's ruining lives too,
suddenly ruined his wive's life.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
And look at all the lives that are look at
all the lives that are ruined in the episode before
we figure out she's a serio killer.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Yeah, it's true. Now again I would I would say,
I'm mean, I'm gonna stick with eight. I don't think
I'm gonna budge higher than eight. Maybe nine, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
I think it's at least an eight and a half.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
Okay, eight and a half.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
It's more than Decline and Fall. It's gotta be.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
It's got I mean, you're right, there.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Are people fucking dying in this one. There are a
lot of that. Anyone died in Decline and Fall.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
No, we don't.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Dozens are murdered.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
No, the problem is that we're just we're the agist
and uh, it's it's a problem with the show. We just.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
And the show's informing our agism.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yeah, so okay, we have to confront that. So eight
and a half it is that that puts this episode
firmly in the higher tier of episodes that we've watched,
which I think it's interesting because while the plot goes
off the rails, there's so much fun stuff, even in
the last last third of the episode with the the
you know, whole Judge collection and then and then particularly
(50:54):
the eight eight millimeter film that she watches where it's.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Just that so great, that's Super eight footage is fucking insane.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
It's amazing, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
And you you like, there's no no question that she
sits there watching this.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
All the time. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean she had
the whole Super eight players set up. You know, that's
not something you just have in two thousand and four,
you know. So I think we can put this one
to bet rest there. It gets a seven seven point
two five.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
It's pretty high.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
It's pretty high.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
But if you think about of insanity.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
There's a lot of insanity.
Speaker 4 (51:31):
There's good guest stars. There's it's got the guest star
kind of like Spectrum because it doesn't have the it
does have standouts. It has two standout stars, and it's
got really good smaller bit parts. So it's it's it's
really strong in that and you know, she kills dozens
and dozens of people. She doesn't even know how many
people she's killed. She can't remember.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
Yeah, it's hell, it's great. There's it's it's too bad
that the episode whimpered out like sort of you know,
lost all steam in the second half.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
Yes, it could have been a great Yeah, it could
have been a really great one. But really the thing
holding it back was just it just the kind of
riding failed us in the second half. Yeah, but yeah,
I think I think we can call it there. Hopefully
the next one we get is going to be a
good one. I'm firing up the old randomizer right now.
(52:25):
I hate that far and it is giving me number
two ten. That is episode eight, season ten. It's called Persona.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
And Persona per the Long Order fandom wiki page. Benson
tries to help a woman who is the victim of
spousal abuse, going so far as to hide in the
stairway to protect her. Wild hiding, Benson uncovers another long
buried crime. This one features two time Oscar nominee Brenda Levin.
(53:01):
It features Clear du Val, It features Mike Farrell Hell
yeah yeah from Nash uh, and it features uh Nathaniel
Marston who you will probably vaguely recognize. But he's in
a he's a mystero. Yep, yep.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
All right, until then, guys, my Benson and much more.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Benson
What do you mean.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
When I was in nursing school, I see daughters by
their mother's beds, trapped, watching their lives disappear.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
So you help them.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I set them free.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
How many were there?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Dozens?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Do you remember any of their names?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
They were all called Mama.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
In New York City, sexually based offenses, they're considered especially heinous.
These are their stories. Welcome to munch My Benson. My
name's Adam. I live in Galveston. I'm joined on the
line by Josh. How are you doing out there? Josh?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Well, I'm doing all right, I guess all things considered. Yeah,
so you listeners will be listening to this way in
the future, because we're moving ahead in advance of Adam's
the kid that's on the way in Yeah, Switter's household,
(01:32):
looming fatherhood. Yes, so we are recording this in the
middle of all of the police riots, the yeah, the
police protests, and the riots that are ensuing that are
seem to be fomented by the police at every turn.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Almost hopefully, when you all are listening to this in
the future, there have been good results from what has
gone on, but where I'm things don't look very good
for our old Republic right now, it's looking kind of bleak,
kind of depressing.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, it's feeling a lot like Interwar Germany here.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Sure is it? Sure? Sure is? So? Instead of thinking
about the looming demise of representational government, let's talk about
an episode of Law and Orders for you, Josh. This
week we are covering an episode called Bound. It's from
season five. It was episode twenty three. It's an interesting one.
(02:37):
It has some fun things, and it also kind of
falls apart at the end. But let's just get into it.
I'll give a little recap and then we can talk
about it. A realtor and a client walk into a
brownstone discussing the price when they find an elderly woman
who'd been strangled to death and a live elderly man
in the midst of having a heart attack. This will
(02:57):
surely affect the sale price. Sbu arrives and immediately suspects
the dying man of the dead woman's murder. The woman's
daughter informs the cops that the old lady did a
lot of entertaining. If you know what I mean by that,
I mean she had lots and lots of old sex.
Now we meet a few of her paramours, including a
(03:19):
wizened tango instructor and a twenty something scumbag wearing an
open silk purple robe who is an extremely gross piece
of shit. Richard Sutton, aka the old man with the
heart attack, has had three dead former wives and a
current living one who has Alzheimer's and who's been placed
in a dingy nursing home while he lives off her
ample estate. He's got to be the purp right. An
(03:43):
interview with the intubated Sutton reveals that Emmy Warner had
screwed up her timeline of the death and that Sutton
was almost certainly not the purp. George Wong searches the
FBI database for similar crimes, and two cold cases are
found that match the crime precisely, with elderly women killed
the exact same kind of climbing rope. Uh oh, it's
(04:04):
a serial killer. As it turns out, all three victims
had cancer and had utilized the same in home care
service one RDH, which is crawling with recognizable celebs, including
Jane Krakowski as an Emma Spevak, the nurse manager, and
Anthony Rapp as Matt Spevak, the doctor in charge. You
(04:24):
know what that means well. All three Vics had doctor
Spevak's foundation listed as the primary beneficiary in their wills.
Uh Oh. Spevak was also an inveterate gambling addict and
was cooking his foundation's books to cover his debts. To
boot he was an avid rock climber. It's not looking
good for doctor Spevak. Heard evidence, though, is lacking, so
(04:48):
Sbu opt to put the screws into the sister, who
must have been a co conspirator, only to find her
with ligature marks around her neck just like the other Vics.
A search leads them to the home of one of
o Hardh's patience, where they find a dead old lady
on a bed and doctor Spivac himself dead from a
gunshot wound and festooned with climbing rope. Csu tech Judas,
(05:10):
Cipher and Wong both find strange inconsistencies in the crime scene,
which casts doubt on the original theory of the scene.
The lady had been killed by a stroke caused by
an injection of air into her blood, and there is
no syringe found at the scene. Now it must have
been Emma. They find Emma watching some old home movies
that show her brother having loads and loads of fun
(05:31):
with their now dead mother while Emma stands around looking
very sad. As a coincidence, the mother had also died
from a stroke, but in order to exhume the body
to determine if that stroke had been caused by an
air embolist, Novak needs to travel to Judge Siegelman's house
at night, only to find like every single SVU judge
hanging out there playing poker together. Now she gets the
(05:53):
necessary warrant, they exhume the lady and they find the
needle mark on the corpse. A little game angry abusive
male comp and frightened a lady comp played by Elliott
and Olivia do eventually get Emma to admit to her crimes,
including killing literally dozens of old ladies who, in her words,
were all called Mama. The end, I call this one
(06:22):
a throw Mama from the train.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Dick Wolf can't wait, can't wait for audio to be
cut in from that.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Because that seems to be That seems to be the
takeaways that all moms need to fucking die.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yes, yeah, he sick.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
What a dream mom is having?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Really?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I'm so trying to sell me this get away from me,
you who's his ass? Whoever wrote this episode really had
some Freudian issues here?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Yeah, no shit, let's uh, well that's not a big deal.
Anythings really stand out from this episode to you. It
was definitely she was an angel of mercy, but in
a weird way because so typically angels of mercy, and
there's been a few of them, including one Neil's Hoogel,
a German nurse who killed something like four hundred people,
(07:16):
And typically what angels of nursey do is they see
people that are suffering and they choose to put them
out of their misery, kind of like a youth and
asia like you do with a dog. Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
But she started doing this when she was in nursing
school though, And I don't think the implication with those
early deaths is that they were also terminal, like later
on we have valid or we have verification that well,
two of the three that sort of bring this case
(07:49):
to the serial killer area, two of the three were terminal.
One was in remission. Yeah, so that's already one person
that she's killed was in remission.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
She's not being an angel mercy for the victims the
people she kills. She's killing for the daughters.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yes, for the daughters. For the daughters, because they all
are daughters of mothers. Yeah, apparently daughters of mothers have
the undying urge to see their mothers die.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Yeah. No, ship man.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Wow, it gets really dark in that last scene.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Rough statement, it's kind of funny because it gets so
dark at the end, Yet at the same time, the
episode has kind of gone off the rails at this point, like,
you know, the plot kind of grinds to a halt
because we've gone through a couple really big twists and turns,
and it's just kind of hard to really fly with.
With the scene where she's watching the films, it just
(08:43):
kind of it's just kind of died at this point,
So you know, you're watching, you're kind of in a daze,
and then she's just like they were all mothers. At
the end, You're like, wait, what do you what now?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Oh god, Yeah, it's okay. So I remembered this episode
and I knew that Krakowski was the killer, So that
takes a little bit of the fun out of it
for you. And once you've seen this episode, it's pretty
hard to forget that she turns out to be a
random's like Mother serial killer. So there's it's weird watching
it knowing what's going to happen. Should we skip back
(09:18):
to the beginning? It's the ending we obviously kind of
needed to address right away.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, no, shit, I think we should talk about all
the famous people in this first, and then we'll get
to you and then we'll I mean, I think the plot,
I don't know, we'll go through some of the more
fun bits, but I think we really need to talk.
There's a lot of famous people in this episode, kind
of headlined by Krakowski and Anthony Rapp, Right, you want
to talk about either one of them. Jane Kurkowski's been
(09:44):
in a bunch of different stuff. To me, she will
always be cousin Vicky from National Lampoon's Vacation back in
nineteen eighty three. But she's probably much more famous to you,
as you know, she was in most of Ali McBeal.
She is in uh all of thirty Rock. That's probably
where she's Jenna Maroney from thirty Rock. That's probably her
(10:06):
biggest role. But she's been in tons of stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
She was in Unbreakable COMMI Schmid, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, so I mean tons and tons of stuff. She's
highly recognizable. First time I saw her in my hackles
always get raised when I see a famous person in SBU.
You know, it's like, oh, they must have done it.
And when I saw her, I'm like, holy shit, it
must have been her.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And then but there are two of them, and so
there's the weird like, okay, well it's one of these too, clearly, yeah, exactly.
Even if you haven't seen this episode before, you know
it's either the brother or the sister. It's either Matt
or Ammas feedback. Anthony Rap of course was in he
was Darryl in Adventures and Babysitting exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Thank you for calling that out first. I was worried
you were going to say something else.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Now fuck that shit. No, he was Darryl in Adventures Babysitting.
He's also in Daisy Confused.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Tony the nerdy guy.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, yeah, the nerdy guy who's trying to get with
the get with the like kind of creepy. She's like
what fifteen or sixteen? Yeah, going to be a senior,
I think, or she's going to be a freshman and
he's going to be a senior.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
He was in school Ties. So dick Wolf connection there
since Dick Wolf wrote School Ties, and he was he
was in Rent. He was the narrator in Rent. And
for people who weren't like cognizant of the world in
the nineties, Rent was basically the nineties version of Hamilton.
It was the it was the musical of that decade
(11:32):
that like permeated the sort of social consciousness like Hamilton has.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, fuck that shit.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, he's also he's in uh, he's in Star Trek
Enterprise now. Oh and obviously the probably most important aspect
of the Anthony rap.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, and the one story that ties.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, he was the He was the first accuser to
come forward and named Kevin Spacey as a Spacey basically
prepped on him when he was fourteen. They were both
they were in concurrent Broadway State or Broadway productions, and
(12:18):
Spacey put the moves on him at his apartment.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah. And it's a really creepy story.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Sor Yeah, it's and that's what set off the He
was the first accuser to name Spacey, and then at
least fourteen more have named Spacey as being like serial
sexual predator.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah. It was in nineteen eighty six. This was before
Spacey was famous.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
He was in he was basically in Miami Vice at
this point.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, he was in a supporting role in a Broadway
production of Long Day's Journey in Tonight, starring Jack Lemon
in this version, and Rapp was also on Broadway at
the time. He was in Precious Sons with Ed Harris
and Judith Ivy, and they were both the way they met,
they were both receiving a lot of praise on Broadway,
(13:05):
and so they had a big party for both different
productions that kind of mixed and that's how we met him.
And then rap didn't know who Kevin Spacey was after
the event happened, and Rapp was at a movie theater
when he was sixteen he saw working Girl and he
saw Kevin Spacey on screen and a working girl and
(13:28):
basically had a you know, a PTSD trauma attack because
it was the first time he'd ever seen him on screen.
Had no idea really who he was, you know, as
far as being a famous person. And of course Kevin
Spacey after that would go on to become a very
famous person. So very upsetting shit, but good on Anthony.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Rapp coming forward. We also first disclosed actually in two
thousand and one in an article in The Advocate. Yeah,
but there was there was there were legal ramifications that
recluded them from being able to name Spacey then, but
he wanted to then, It's just they couldn't legally do it.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
But I mean he should he Uh, I mean it's
got to take a lot of guts to come forward
about a guy who was massive in Hollywood. Massive. All right,
so we get back to uh, I guess it's more
fun the stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, so let's kick him back to the top. Sure, First,
before we go back to the beginning, we should probably
note that at this point in time, the like level
of fame between Anthony Rapp and Jane Kerkowski is roughly
equivalent to one another.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Like, I mean he's he's the narrator in fucking Rent,
you know, like he he was a very noticeable star.
She had she had basically she had essentially just been
in Ally mcbeial. She had a ton of other credits,
but her big role was Ally mcbeil. Would have gone
off the air two years earlier.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, but thirty Rock hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So, Yeah, thirty Rock hasn't happened yet, so like exactly, so,
like they're sort of like the equivalent of the fame
equivalent of one another.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Oh well, well, we're still talking about famous people. I
think we're burying the lead because we get yet another
wire tie in in this episode because Jimmy McNulty's ex
wife is Anthony Rapp's attorney.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
The Wire and homicide Life on the Street. Yeah, she
was in the unit with Munch on homicide and so
then she pops up here and this is I think
this is a second episode that she's in as Nicky Stains.
She actually has a weird like late season arc. She
pops up in season nineteen and twenty in two kind
(15:40):
of big two big like mythology episodes.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Essentially, of course, we're talking about Callie Thorne. Yes, the
actress who.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Is good as also to rescue me.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, she is. She's in a bunch of recent seasons. Interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, but she put she went like twelve she went
I think twelve years in between episodes of SVU and
then got reintroduced as a defense attorney.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
But same character, she's in the game, same game. Yeah,
she's Nicky Stains throughout. Huh. All right, so okay, let's
go back to this top. Now we've talked about the
actors involved.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Well, just wait, should we talk about the nurse also?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Please?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So the nurse who when they when they first get
to the hospital.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Of the nurses, no, so so their first, they're one
of their first, like when they first start keying in
on the home care company RDH. All signs point to
this nurse who was one of their in home nurses.
And his name in the show is Gary Devall and
he had been fired from RDH and was now working
for Meals on Wheels delivering meals to elderly people. And
(16:42):
this actor is very hard to track down. He's not
listed in the IMDb page, he's not listed in the
credits of the show, and he's not on the fandom
bookie page either. Now we will continue to do some
research on this and hopefully by the time we air
this we will actually have found who gets is. But
at the moment, it's a big who done it? And
(17:03):
he has more than one scene. It's not an under
five throwaway character.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I've yet to see an under five knock get credited. Yeah, so,
I don't know what the hell's going on here. Maybe
he's just a ghost from three minute a baby.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I don't Yeah, it's possible. It's possible he's standing there
in the window. But he had a really fun bit.
But I guess we'll get there in a second.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
But yeah, okay, so should we go back to the
beginning now?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
The cold open was pretty fun.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I gotta say, yeah, yeah, So I love when Sutton's
croaking on the sidewalk.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
The EMT asked Elliott if you know CPR, yeah, which
I sort of laughed, assuming cops hadn't know it.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, they do have to know CPR.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Only kind of. So I did a dive on this
because I was like, I've always I've been CPR certified
a bunch of times, yeah, in different states. I was
always under the impression that cops had to be CPR certified.
In New York, however, officers did not have to be
certified in CPR until twenty seventeen. What Yes. This was
(18:08):
the subject of controversial case in twenty ten where a
ten year old girl, Brianna Ojeeda, suffered an asthma attack
that led her mother, Carmen Ohada, to rush her off
to the hospital. Her mother turned the wrong way down
a one way street, and officer Alfonso Mendez pulled her over,
but refused to administer CPR, later saying that he'd only
(18:28):
learned CPR from a textbook and never practiced.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Not a dummy, Holy shit.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
So after issuing a citation, Mendes followed the car that
Ojeda was driving, didn't lead her, followed the vehicle to
the hospital. So CPR was something that NYPD taught its officers,
but apparently not well. Brianna was pronounced dead an hour
(18:55):
after battling through traffic on the way to the hospital,
with neither of police nor a nine to one one
call made by officer Mendez. It took seven years for
Brianna's law to get through, to get through the gears
of justice in Albany. But now officers need to recertify
every two years. This is as of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
They need to recertify every two years, like I do
to to.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Like we did at the boat. Yeah, to give a tour,
and that was unofficial. That was that was just you know,
our boss doing that because he thought it was right. Yeah,
this is insane. I mean I've been like a CPR
first aid was like certified before because I was a
lifeguard way back in the day.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Nowadays, the coast Guard makes me get certified.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
But yeah, surely they would.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah that's yeah, but uh wow, I'm.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, I'm kind of nicheless fucking shocking, but I'm also
like a hunt. Until twenty seventeen in New York, cops
didn't have to be fucking CPR certified.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And you wonder why people are ups it. That's shocking.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Ten year old girl died. W cop didn't ever get
he got to look at CPR in a textbook.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
He didn't call an ambulance on his little shoulder radio.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Wow, nope, didn't turn on his lights, didn't guide the
car to the fucking hospital.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
All right, like common sense ship whatever. Okay, So uh
so stable gives five chest compressions tops yeah, and then
they bust out the defibrillator.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yeah. I mean, which is it's just fair. You're supposed
to give compressions until until they have something.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I love.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I love the e MT like asking do you know CPR?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I know?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
And then it's okay, you have the defib you have
the defib out like four seconds later.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
The compressions are if you need to, because you're if
you're doing compressions right, you're gonna break the rib gage.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I gotta say that the Sutton character, he doesn't. He does.
He's the Sudden character, is asked to do so much
work with ship on his.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Face, doesn't get to talk.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
In this scene, he has a he has like a
breathe and oxygen mask on his face, and they're wheeling
him out to the ambulance from the house and he's
like Elliott's questioning him while he's he has this mask
on his face and he's like basically mumble moaning something
that you can't understand, and Ellen, I'm sorry. Yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Detective stamp Loo, can you tell me what happens?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
It's just sudden, tell me what happened.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I'm sorry for what.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Later on, of course he's interviewed while he's literally intubated. Uh,
and so he has to write down his answers. It's
really good he has. He's asked to do so much,
and he's actually one of my favorite parts. Richard Easton
is the name of the actor, and he did great
sort of.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Recalls those scenes in Uh, how fuck what was the
name of the episode where the girl has her mouth
wire shot?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah exactly, that was uh yeah, pretend from season eight
that that makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Uh, and so that was episode uh, episode fourteen.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Okay, so back to bound. I also really like the
the look on the realtor's face when she realized that
there was a dead body there. It wasn't that shock
that there's a dead body here. It was it was
just like a.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Goddamn it, there goes this sale. Yeah, god damn it.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Do you know how much Mike.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I was gonna make. I was gonna make fucking.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, you're five percent commission on whatever? A two million
dollars sale. Yeah, let's see. So we we go to
the Boy Toys to start with, and it's all very funny,
this kind of They actually lead us down some really
good paths on this episode without until we find the
real culprits and the Boy Toy man so gross.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I think this is the best performance in the episode.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
This This guy is so problematic.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
This guy is so great. I mean, like I really
every line that comes out of your mouth, we could
just drop.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Into this episode.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
We could just drop in all of his dialogue and
everyone's jaw would drop if they've not seen this episode.
This guy is such a grief that's a big deal.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Say about a foot of your age difference, you should
try it. Older women, they have more experience, they're less inhibited,
and you don't have to worry about getting him knocked up.
Forgot to mention financially independent.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Donna has a lot of dough.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Definitely sweetens the pot. So he's wearing a purple silk
robe that's just open and we don't see below its waist,
so we have no idea what's down there.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Oh, he's hanging dong. He's hanging dong like Stable and
Benson are both just like sitting there having a look
at this guy's junk. There's no way, there's no way
this guy is not open robing it and just fucking
free wheeling the whole time.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
When informed of the death of a woman he had
had sex with last night, he says she was fine
when I left her.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
No, I take that back.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
She was satisfying.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
It's a fucking hell. It's so good. Uh So so
we get there because like her her instructor at Hot
to Trot. Yeah, it was also amazing. I'm assuming I was.
I was kind of hoping for Bobcat Goldthwaite to pop up,
but I guess we're not going to get that. No,
So instead instead it's this old guy, Harvey Cohen, who
(24:45):
taught her how to tango.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
He was a respectable looking old guy though he had
some yeah panache.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, but he was super jealous because she showed up
with her boy toy Ben uh Ben Pauler m hm,
and so he kicked them out of class because she
was too flirty. Uh fucking hell. Okay, So this guy
I looked him up, Trevor Jones, who plays Ben Poller
b robed Uh yeah, toy Uh he's he's he's now
(25:20):
a line producer. He he doesn't really have a lot
of acting credits. He only has a few ton and
he jumps to being a producer. He's a credits and
he was an a D two. But yeah, yeah, why
is he not still acting?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
I know he was. He was solid, really solid. Yeah,
a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
I mean, wardrobe helps him out a lot. Here he
is wearing the sleaziest purple robe ever. But he, I
mean he lip he like licks his chops and steps
into like just tears into the lines. You should try it.
Older women, they have more experience, they're less inhibited. You
don't have to worry about getting them knocked up.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
So gross, I mean, there's so many good lines from
him he has. I think he has all of the
best lines except for one that Warner says that is uh,
I guess. I mean, we've already heard the rundown, so
we can talk about it. Because while we're talking about
great lines, Warner is talking about the woman that is
(26:24):
found dead next to Anthony Rapp's character. Vivia Callis did
have a stroke, but it wasn't caused by fear puncture
mark on her neck.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I missed it at first because her skin is so wrinkled,
this wrinkly old bag. I almost missed it.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Oh my god. There's a lot of fucking anti old
shit going on in this episode, and I am here.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
For So when we come back to the precinct, Kragan
asks what's he doing? What's he doing hanging around with
a queen of the charity? Yeah, and I'm like, maybe
his balls are the ones receiving charity.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
That's right, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Especially, I mean, that's not that's not out of school,
that that question. This episode puts everything on the table
with elder sex.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, support these balls. You know, there's a lot of
kind of fun little side character roles in this episode.
I think that's kind of it's like a story of
these like side characters. So the next group is that
we find the two other victims, uh, and we meet
the husband of one of them and the son of
the other one, And both of these roles were fantastic too.
(27:37):
Zelman the old man is. I found this to be
a very problematic scene because he's got like a black
nurse pushing him in his wheelchair while he's talking to
the cops. And she's never even acknowledged by any of
the speaking actors. It's not even they don't even look
at her, she doesn't nod to them, nothing. But he
(27:59):
was kind.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
But I suspect that it may not be racial, and
that it's really that all of the principal cast on,
all of the main cast on the show probably hates background.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yeah that's true. But still like I felt bad for
her in that scene because it's just like, man, you
look like a fucking just a prop as a beating
heart and would like to get a credit in this,
you know.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, I mean she got a featured background. She got
a featured background bump at least. Yeah, so there is
that it could be worse. She got more than all
the other fucking boners that are like sitting sitting in
scenes where you can't see their face prominently.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Yeah. Now, the other son is a real scumbag. He
works at a car dealership, and he has not said
that his mother was murdered, And by.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
By giving him that occupation, we we get the very
shorthand version of this guy's shipper.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Yeah, this guy, this guy has zero morals.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
And yeah, he's a car salesman. Yeah, he's the worst.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
He'd sell your mother to. Yeah. And then after that
we find the incologists, because it kind of is a
kind of rapid fire path through these different people, and
the ancologist is the one that eventually leads us to
rd H. The in home care provider. Now, the oncologists
immediately when they bring up the fact that several of
(29:17):
his patients had been murdered, said well, if I'd done it,
I would have done a better job at murdering them,
so you wouldn't even know.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Well, it's not even that. I really think he's hinting
that he's doctor Kavorkian and he euthanizes his terminal patients
on the rag.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yeah, no shit, maybe, but he's so.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Fucking good at it. That they're never going to catch him,
so what the fuck ever?
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, maybe he's actually the allusion to Neil's Hogel, the
German super serial killer. Like, seriously read about this guy
four hundred plus victims.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
But I mean he does say that his patients are
paying for this kind of care, this level of care,
and you know, if you want to be put out
of your misery.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
This level of care includes dying peacefully.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, I'm totally pro mercy killing.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
I gotta say, just kind of step aside. Like only
the only on SVU moments in this There's no other
show that has an oncologist on for a you know,
three line segment where one of the lines has him
speculating about killing his elderly patients and how he would
get away with it. There's no other show.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Not how just that he would. Yeah exactly if I
were doing this, there wouldn't be a fucking trace lady.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
So good on them for that. I mean really like
Bravo SVU. Of course. Respected Dignity Health is the name
of the in home care provider, and we kind of
briefly mentioned the Gary Devaal character. He has some great
lines and I really want to feature this guy and
talk about him because he has this back and forth
(30:54):
with his with his meals on wheels lady that where
he's getting taken in by the cops and he's basically like, sorry,
old brod, I'm not gonna hang out with you today,
and she's like, but you're the only one who visits me.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
But then he's like, he'll be back tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Yeah, I mean, he was kind of nice to her,
and then he says stuff like the bitches lying getting
fired was the best thing that ever happened to me.
And also I'd never rip off Susan, she was a sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with anything that he says here. Yeah,
I mean Brooks, Donna Brooks is basically a completely selfish
He missed who anyone who did work for her, she
probably would treat like shit.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Yeah, absolutely, fuck that lady. And what does she need
to roll up?
Speaker 1 (31:40):
She docked him because he was ten minutes late. She
docked him pay because he was ten minutes late.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
It's New York City, the subways run late. All sorts
of things happened. Yeah, old bruh, I really think that's
an effort. I think that I like his his scenes.
Does that change how we feel about the first vic?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Like at first she was just getting her bone on,
you know, but now it's like, Okay, well she was
kinda like terrible to her in home healthcare provider.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So are you saying that it's likely that this episode
is pro killing the elderly, Like it's basically like a
Logan's run for New York City.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I don't know that she was. We don't know that
she was ever convicted.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
It's true, we don't, and we don't know the full
story behind the dozens of other victims. We do know
that the mom was a piece of shit because we
see evidence of the mom straight up ignoring her and playing.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Super eight, that super film trip that she clearly just
watches on a loop in like the dark. She watches
that every day.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
It's the saddest shit you're ever gonna see, the Super
eight strip with like her just like standing there in
the background while her little brother is, well, her twin
brother is getting all sorts of praise and affection from mom.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Oh my god, that is the slash funniest. So like
you're sad for a second and then you're like, Jesus
fucking Christ, this is in this episode, this fucking thing
is crazy.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Yeah. So, I mean I'm saying
that we don't know enough about the other victims to
really judge whether it was justified or not. But the
two that we kind of do know enough about, it
seems totally justified. Like they both deserved it.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
So yeah, and they were terminal, so whatever.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, it's the it's the.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Sorry kind of calous. But that's kind of what the
I think, that's kind of what the show is having
us believe. Yeah, because because the two that the two
that are terrible of the three, the two that are
terrible were terminal.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah. No, Well, and really, what did these women have
to offer society anymore? They were literally just a burden.
They were just a burden on everyone, on the healthcare system,
on their daughters, on their poll.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Okay, so she should We should probably jump back for
a second too, when we when when we're back on
Sutton is potentially being the perp uh, and they go
to where he's dumped his money, but Alzheimer's wife mm
in a home below well below her means yeah, and
she's sitting there and she's like looking for a telegram
(34:19):
from President Trump. Yeah, sorry, President Truman.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Truman.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah yeah, President Truman, just sitting there like really.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Yeah, yeah, they're pretty cruel to that old lady too. Uh.
You know, honestly, though I was thinking about it, that
nursing home did not look that bad, you know, they
it was. It was another case of like, we need
to come up with a name for this syndrome, because
it's come up. It showed up in the second episode
of SVU that we did when we covered Haunted, that
(34:51):
was in Hot Mike Sandibal comes in the back Door
episode two of Munch of My Benson where Finn is
walking by a perfectly normal suburban home and he says,
this place is a dump, and well.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
It's sort of it's like the detached classism of the
of the elite who don't realize what the world is like.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yeah, and okay, so it might have been the fanciest
looking nursing home, and it definitely was overcrowded, but that
was clearly just a choice from the show. But it
wasn't dirty and there weren't like nurses beating their patients
or anything like that. No, it could definitely get worse
than that.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, it's not like the home that the Home and
Happy Gilmour. It's sort of interesting when they talk about
how Warner, like when Warner realizes she was wrong about
the time of death because of the room temperature and
the fact that Donna had been working out and she
worked out at five am, so like the body temperature
and the rigor that had set in was actually had
(35:49):
had thrown her off, the thrown her off the time
of death, and that instead of being the night before
at like ten pm, it was more like what six
thirty or.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
Something, six thirty am, Yeah, because it was so it
was freezing inside the house and she had just worked out,
and so there was this combination. I didn't do enough.
I didn't do any checking to see if that makes
her mouth it? Did it? Like it was some good
science shit going on there.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Theoretically, Yeah, there was.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Actually, like Warner's moments were all really fun because she
had that moment which was like I buy that, And
then she had another one where she just shows up
to show a picture of the mummified neck of the
dead mom which is really fun, just sort of like
gratuitous gore that they have to show us, like here's
a picture of a you know, a woman that's been
(36:38):
dead for seven years. And then and then of course, uh,
my favorite line in the show, puncture wound on her neck.
I missed it at first because her skin is so wrinkled.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Gosh.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
You know. The thing about this episode for me is
that I really liked all the bits that didn't have
the two famous like stunt cast members in it. Really
and they them in it was I felt like a
kind of ground to a halt, like, uh, well.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Because we had such a weird journey to find like
hyper sexually active old people.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah, and you have.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I mean like once they're introduced once, once the real
killers are introduced, we don't get any more of the
boy toy.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
No, we don't get the boy toy. We get we
get a like a nerdy doctor who I don't know
how he has time to be a doctor because he
spends all his time gambling Atlantic City and going rock climbing.
And then the sister who doesn't do anything but just
like plot old people's demise and her brothers. Yeah, now
(37:47):
we get. One of my favorite things in the episode
was when Finn and Munch go to search Speedvac doctor
Spevac's apartment. They you know, this is when they find
out that he's had these gambling debts, and there's just
this perfect answer machine message that plays when Munch hits
the button.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Answering machines blinking probably collection agency.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Heice feedback, you're late again, you better pay up, doc,
but we're coming over. Doesn't sound like Mastercar. It's clearly
just like they grabbed a PA and we're like, hey,
say this line.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, they probably gave that to like the key
set Pa, Key PA got to do that. Yeah, that's
that's just you know, five minutes.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
And then there's another great the other great scene in
the second like the kind of I guess a little
hard to say what the act structure of this episode
is because it goes on such a random winding path,
but sort of in the second half, the best moment
I think is when Novak goes over to the judge's
house and there's the multi judge poker game going on.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Which they like called everyone off the bench figuratively and
I guess literally called everyone off the bench. And so
is gambling still illegal?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
You would think so, but it wasn't clear whether they
had any money on the line.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I don't think these judges hang out with each other
unless they can steal money from one another.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Yeah, exactly. But that was a really fun scene because
all those judges are great and you rarely get to
see them doing anything but being just judges on the stand.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah. Yeah, no, I I was kind of into it.
It's weird there are so many of them there that
that they I don't think all of them had a
line in this episode. I don't think so either, so
some of them, some of them just sat there. I
don't know. It was like, I enjoyed having that scene
in there. Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Well, you got anything else to point out before we
get to some of the segments here. I don't have
anything for New York State of Mind this week, but
but go ahead.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So I've got a couple things. It's really weird how
shock Benson is to discover their twins when they're standing
up I know, the over the family grave plot that.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Exactly they're twins.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Like twins, don't I've never met twins? What are they like?
Or like? In Patriot where the father of twin daughters
says that the thing he's his fear in life is twins.
It's one of them something like that. It's super weird.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
I know, I mean it seemed like kind of obvious.
I mean, not obvious, but at least not that crazy
that these people they look to me about the same age.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Yeah, Oh they're twins. That's it. No, I mean it
wasn't a little weird that they already had funeral plots
and they're like, you know, thirty years old.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
But I also think it's funny when Wang comes up
with the idea to reenact the sibling rivalry. So, Wang,
is it just his purpose with the unit to come
up with crazy role playing scenarios?
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Is that his primary function?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Then we get the scene where Stabler plays the shithead
older brother to Benson. He says the like the line,
I think it's the lone, but like the walk off
line is, women shouldn't be cops, they shouldn't be doctors.
They're two weak and stupid.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, he really likes, really selling this whole role play.
So and then and then uh, she says, Kurkowski says,
mothers are all the same. You try to be good
to them and all they do is treat you like dirt.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Yeah, man, that line at the end.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, Well, and then she says it always works so
and then it yeah, they were all named Mama, and
she says it always works so quickly, and you're like, wait,
what always always? And then she reveals dozens of fucking
elder elder, maternal elder. I guess it's not what mattrass
(42:03):
side if it's not your mother.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, it's only mattress side if it's your mother.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I mean she did commit mattresside once, yes, and then
it was like, I guess mattriss side by proxy. I
gut you could say for these for these other embattled daughters,
you will never get out from the specter of their
mother's judgment. Now.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Interestingly enough, besides, uh, I guess Donna Brooks, the two
victims that we kind of go down the rabbit hole with,
we don't see their daughters ever. We see their shitthead
son and their their elderly husband, but we don't see
the daughters. Maybe she's branching out and just killing whomever
at this point because she's sick of Yeah, she's discriminate
(42:43):
embolises to uh daughter mothers.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Well, yeah, I mean she's clearly like her herm is
sort of advancing yeahs as her as her rage builds.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yeah, because at this point, I guess it's less about
killing the old women than it is about uh, punishing
her brother. I mean that's what she's moved on to
the climbing rope. So yeah, now we can start ranking
this thing. We rank these episodes every week and we
do it on a ten point scale. We have four
(43:15):
different criteria that we rank on. We do it on
the quality, the guess how problematic it was, and how
ruined these people's lives were by the course of the episode,
and then we create a composite score based off of
all those criteria. So let's where do you think about
the quality. Let's just start at the top now. For me,
(43:37):
this one was kind of mixed because it had some
really good stuff in it, and it also kind of
it just kind of fell apart as far as just
the driving plot to the end would be my biggest
problem with it.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, the quality is all front loaded. Yeah, and then
when we get to the two big guests, you know,
starting in I don't think either one is really in
it before act too.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
Right, Yeah, definitely not. No, they're not in it for
quite a while. We go through we burned through like
four different suspects before we even get to them.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, and so they're they're really not involved until they're
there too. Bring this toy to a halt from the
episode to a halt, at least not the story, I guess.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
I mean I don't think that either of them are bad.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
No, I don't think so either. I just think the
I just think the show kind of goes off the rails.
I think that.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yeah, it's sort of like it's paced in such a
weird way that everything is interesting. Everything that's interesting is
in the first the cold open, in the first two acts. Yeah,
and so then we're just left, we're left to sort
of like play out the string. There's so much insane
elder stuff that it's actually kind of funny. Yeah, it's
fun I think it's I think it's good, but it's
sort of like it's ultimately middling because of how how
(44:54):
it whimpers through the final two acts. You want to
put a number on it, I'd say five, or you.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
Say five or six? Okay, I was going to say four,
So let's say five. Five. Yeah. Now it has again,
it has Anthony Rapp and Jane Krakowski, So it's got
a couple of big stars in it, and it had
a lot of really fun smaller parts, so a lot
the guess it's gotta be kind of high on guests.
I'm going to say eight for the guests because I
(45:20):
thought it was a lot of fun there, and.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
There's so many, so many of the bit parts that
Ben Paller, the nurse Gary, yeah named nurse Gary Deval. Yeah,
they're all pretty great.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
The oncologist was great, I.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Mean, yeah, Kavorkian Oncologists is fucking awesome.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Yeah. A Sutton, Richard Sutton, the guy who has to
speak with the tube and.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Is the guy who basically doesn't. He has to act
through three scenes, act through three scenes and he doesn't
have something covering his mouth in one of them.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah, and that when he's dying from a heart attack,
so he's just moaning.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Yeah, yeah, he was having to add they're putting him
through the fucking ringer in this episode.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Yeah, it's so much fun, so much fun. That the
shitty son who's the car salesman, lots of good stuff.
All of it is fun.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, lots of lots of fun with the guest stars.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
And it's also got I gotta be high in this
next one. How problematic it was, because it's pretty problematic.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Oh yeah, I mean every word out of Ben Poller's
mouth is appalling.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Holy shit, it's yeah, yeah, it's it's really something. Holy shit.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I mean it's not a ten. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
No, no, it's not a ten, but it's a seven.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
Maybe it's.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah, I think it's firmly like a seven. Mate, you
could probably convince me to go eight and seven.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
We'll say seven and a half. I like seven and
a half because it definitely is uh, it's definitely, man,
it goes to some places. Now, this last one might
be a little controversial, though, because how do we even
describe how ruined people's lives were because they are on
the verge of death.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
We don't know that. We only know that two of
them were on the verge of death. We don't know
how many others were actually terminal. But they all this
fuck yeah they owe. But she also murdered these mothers
of people, like she murdered dozens of people, and the
fallout has to be pretty fucking big. Yeah, because she
(47:24):
presumes that they don't like their mother, but she's projecting,
and holy shit, she kills so many people.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
And it's not just her because her brother, remember, has
convinced all these other ladies to bequest him all their
money in their minds, yeah, I'm sorry to bequeath him
all of their money so that he can pay off
his gambling debts. They think they're giving it to charity,
but really he's just ripping them off. So all these
people who think that they are going to inherit, you know,
(47:53):
their mother or wives, you know, whatever the state, find
themselves in the poorhouse or working at a use car dealership.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
It goes to that fucking key set who's on the voice.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah, exactly, So you're right. I mean it definitely does
cause some pain and suffering this episode.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yeah, and it's like, in terms of scale, we probably
are dealing with two episodes so far that have meted
out as much fucking ruination as this one.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yeah, and they both got ten.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
She killed dozens of people.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Yeah, I'm unwilling to go to ten, though I might
go to nine.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
No, I won't go to ten. It's but holy, I mean,
she she fucking kills dozens of people, and on top
of that, her brother is also cheating all of these people.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
Yeah, and on top of that all these old people
are out there having sex ruining their children's lives too.
So think about that too.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Eight eight eight, yeah, eight, I mean it's a lot.
It really is a lot.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Decline and fall we had as an eight and.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
I don't even remember what decline and fall is. We
just did it right.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
It was the last one we did, Josh, and it
was the one where the uh, the old guy raped
his grandson's Like it's been a long.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Week in between I know, shit we last recorded and
what we recorded this time.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
It's it's been like a decade since last week happened.
But uh, but that was the one where the you know,
she was the bartender at the party and the old
and the grandpa raped her.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
But he also presumably raped raped dozens of exactly.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
So that was an eight, and I think.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, this is comparable. Well, but we've got two different
people who were fucking victimizing people in this.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
To make no mention of Ben Pauler or something.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
Yeah, I mean they were all because son's ruining lives too,
suddenly ruined his wive's life.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
And look at all the lives that are look at
all the lives that are ruined in the episode before
we figure out she's a serio killer.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Yeah, it's true. Now again I would I would say,
I'm mean, I'm gonna stick with eight. I don't think
I'm gonna budge higher than eight. Maybe nine, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
I think it's at least an eight and a half.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
Okay, eight and a half.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
It's more than Decline and Fall. It's gotta be.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
It's got I mean, you're right, there.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Are people fucking dying in this one. There are a
lot of that. Anyone died in Decline and Fall.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
No, we don't.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Dozens are murdered.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
No, the problem is that we're just we're the agist
and uh, it's it's a problem with the show. We just.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
And the show's informing our agism.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yeah, so okay, we have to confront that. So eight
and a half it is that that puts this episode
firmly in the higher tier of episodes that we've watched,
which I think it's interesting because while the plot goes
off the rails, there's so much fun stuff, even in
the last last third of the episode with the the
you know, whole Judge collection and then and then particularly
(50:54):
the eight eight millimeter film that she watches where it's.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Just that so great, that's Super eight footage is fucking insane.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
It's amazing, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
And you you like, there's no no question that she
sits there watching this.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
All the time. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean she had
the whole Super eight players set up. You know, that's
not something you just have in two thousand and four,
you know. So I think we can put this one
to bet rest there. It gets a seven seven point
two five.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
It's pretty high.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
It's pretty high.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
But if you think about of insanity.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
There's a lot of insanity.
Speaker 4 (51:31):
There's good guest stars. There's it's got the guest star
kind of like Spectrum because it doesn't have the it
does have standouts. It has two standout stars, and it's
got really good smaller bit parts. So it's it's it's
really strong in that and you know, she kills dozens
and dozens of people. She doesn't even know how many
people she's killed. She can't remember.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
Yeah, it's hell, it's great. There's it's it's too bad
that the episode whimpered out like sort of you know,
lost all steam in the second half.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
Yes, it could have been a great Yeah, it could
have been a really great one. But really the thing
holding it back was just it just the kind of
riding failed us in the second half. Yeah, but yeah,
I think I think we can call it there. Hopefully
the next one we get is going to be a
good one. I'm firing up the old randomizer right now.
(52:25):
I hate that far and it is giving me number
two ten. That is episode eight, season ten. It's called Persona.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
And Persona per the Long Order fandom wiki page. Benson
tries to help a woman who is the victim of
spousal abuse, going so far as to hide in the
stairway to protect her. Wild hiding, Benson uncovers another long
buried crime. This one features two time Oscar nominee Brenda Levin.
(53:01):
It features Clear du Val, It features Mike Farrell Hell
yeah yeah from Nash uh, and it features uh Nathaniel
Marston who you will probably vaguely recognize. But he's in
a he's a mystero. Yep, yep.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
All right, until then, guys, my Benson and much more.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Benson
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