31 - It's a Bad Way to Wake Up If You're a Recovering Alcoholic (S13E23 Rhodium Nights) - Munch My Benson: A Law & Order: SVU Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Capassidy, you ask hunch My partner. Nice to see you too, Olivia.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's been a long time. You look good. What do
you know those guys used to work us for you
last century and now you're moonlighting for Bart Gunzel. They
mentioned the dead girl at his party might have come up.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
And you couldn't give us a call. Hey, I've done
it for three years. I kind of jeopardize that for
a murder charge. Sex trafficking. We all have our marching orders.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, so do we.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
In New York City sexually based offenses, you're considered especially heinous.
These are their stories. Hi, everybody, welcome to munch My Benson.
My name's Adam. I live in Galveston, Texas. I am

(01:16):
joined on the line by Josh. How are you doing
out there in California?

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Josh, I'm doing terribly right now. Yeah, I'm working, you know,
roughly ninety hour weeks. That's done, yep. But it's cool
because I'm non union on a weekly salary, so you
know I'm making less minimum wage. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
They're looking out for you though, right.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
I don't think anyone realized that my job was going
to be this time consuming.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
One of the things I've enjoyed about editing these podcasts.
Josh is kind of going back and seeing a snapshot
in time. So the most recent one I've been working on,
we recorded it in mid June, right before my son
was born, and at that point there was a lot
of stuff going on in the news. That's when the
George Floyd protests were just kicking off and there was
lots of action going on. Well, when we come back

(02:00):
to edit this episode in the future, I feel like
we're going to want to remember what exactly is going
on at this very point in time, because, yeah, things
are happening. Man. We are now somewhere between forty eight
and seventy two hours into Donald Trump's coronavirus.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yep, Mike Lee going around hugging everybody as a super spreader,
along with you know, all of Trump's administration.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Chris Christy, the whole gang. Funny enough, Ted Cruz tested
negative because I imagine that having been in Ted Cruz's
presence personally, nobody wanted to talk to that guy, not
a single person.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
God justs but he actually he's already had it.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
That's true. Anyways, way too early to tell what's going
to happen. With all this, because anybody that's tried to
predict anything about twenty twenty is full of shit, because
God knows what the fuck's going on. So we got
a lot to get to a lot. We have part
one of I believe, the only three part Law and
Order SVU episode that's ever been filmed. I have no

(02:57):
exact knowledge of that. I know there's a few two parters.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
There might have been a three parter with William Lewis
where Live got kidnapped. That's Schreiber. There might there might
have been a three parter in there too, but that's
the only other one that I can think of off
the top of my head.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
But yeah, this is a three part episode. There's a
whole lot of plot for us to get to, in
a whole lot of fun stuff going on, so you
want to just launch into it and see where it
takes us.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
We open cold on a raging bachelor party and soon
find out that these obnoxious moneyed tools are a veritable
who's who of the New York social scene, comprised of Yankees,
Canadian goalies, cable news personalities, and secret service agents. Sex
workers are flating, cigar chomping douche bros pool side and
the underage manitobin subset of that working demographic are ruining

(03:47):
about to be laid cable news hosts nights by turning
up dead under a pile of coats. Jump to the morning,
and SVU is arriving to a scene that we know
to have been tampered with because the direct midpoint between
Abagala and Run and Faroh is shoveling some be horseshitted
story about fishing said winnipegger out of his pool and
giving her mouth to vomit caked mouth even worse than

(04:10):
a haphazardly altered crime scene. The celebrant was none other
than will Brady, the police Commissioner's son. It's cool, though,
King Cop Daddy told sonny boy to fully cooperate. The
unit starts questioning partygoers, and it's instantly clear that our
magnanimous host is intent upon being less than forthcoming about
virtually every detail surrounding the party. The dozens of scantily

(04:31):
clad women at the party weren't hired. They were plus ones. Sure,
news weasel, Sure, these knockout model types wanted to hang
out with you. Everyone will buy that. We do find
out that our post mortem swimmer was woozy per the
shockingly douchiest suit. But when Liv wants to steamroll Rich
John's like a power drunk cop driving through protesters, Craigan says,

(04:54):
slow your role. These fuckers a lawyer up faster than
you can bat your purty. But steely Eyes tells us
that are underage Vic from the Prairie Provinces tested positive
for scopolamine and had a significant amount of ejack in
her stomach to go with abrasions on her knees. It's significant, yeah,
significant amount of ejack, but that there was no sign

(05:16):
of forced sexual activity. So this ball is back in
SVUS court. After the unit seems to be getting no
help from anyone, Will Brady shows up with a USB
drive that tracks him the whole night. This irritates Live
because she apparently doesn't realize that even if it's meant
to exonerate the Commission's son, it can also help them
piece together what happened that night. They figure out that

(05:38):
are totally on the level. Talking head Lyden found our
teen canuck dead in his bedroom where she'd staggered on camera,
and had help relocating the corpse from a diplomatic security detail.
But where did these wonderful women come from? A lusty
blonde escort by the name of Carrissa Gibson who clearly
wants some pino peen, right, quick smash cut to wait,

(05:59):
is that Cassidy? Hey, fucking hell, we just can't catch
a break. This is Cassidy's world. We're just trapped in it.
Cassidy looking like a low rent mobbed up Jamoke tells
his boss man, doctor Talb, from House, who has apparently
taken the cessation of house two days earlier, very badly
because he's already forgotten how to button up his shirt
and is running a high end escort service in New York,

(06:21):
as quote Bart Ganzel, that he has to stop piling around.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Oh Jesus Christ, that's unweeldy. All right, this is like
a five line sentence, all right. Cassidy looking like a
low rent mobbed up Jamoke tells his boss man, doctor
Talb from House, who has apparently taken the cessation of
house two days earlier, very badly because he's already forgotten
how to button up his shirt and he's running a

(06:48):
high end escort service in New York as Bart Ganzel,
that he has to stop piling around with his comely
agent escort because shit's about to go sideways. The alert
from their well placed mole wasn't in time, though, because
Tomorrow and Rollins stroll In and Cassidy cold Cox Tomorrow
to start a fight and maintain his cover with his
diagnosticition turned pemp. They send Cassidy to Rikers to maintain

(07:10):
his cover and question a ridiculous bart Ganzel, who gives
them the name of the girl who brought the vic
to the party. Sprung from the Clink Live in Tomorrow
trackdown Cassidy at a low class strip joint where he's
scouting for diamonds in the rough. Cassidy foists Tomorrow on
Carissa Amaro shames Carrissa for her chosen vocation. In between
Ganzel's previous interrogation and Cassidy's intel given to Live, it

(07:30):
turns out that the team Bringer was on a Sunday
morning flight to Cartagena, but she had ties to Ganzel's
rival d'lia Wilson, who caters to a super exclusive clientele
when she's not tending to her goats. Then Cragan finds
a folder of compromat from an undercover op slid under
his door. This shit is too hot for SVU, and

(07:51):
Craigan tells liv they're kicking this hot dump up to
one pp. Then a former governor croas and his corpse
is wearing his pants like he was a member of
Chriss Cross. Finn and Rollins quickly poke a hole through
a paper thin cover story provided by Governor Fletcher's assistant,
who confesses they found his wrinkled naked ass sprawled out
on his leather couch. Expelled via happy ending Warner says

(08:14):
the governor, with a heart condition was murdered with a
quadruple dose of Viagara and a dash of scopolamine, and
Finn and Rollins scoop up the Asian masseuse, who turns
their attention to Delia's booker, Iris. Iris starts to come
clean when a defense attorney barges in and tells her
to shut the fuck up. Only Iris ain't having none
of that shit. She's not going to take the fall
for Delia and tells Delia's lawyer to go screw. Iris
flips on Delia. Delia is arraigned, bail is set at

(08:37):
two million dollars, and just as quickly, Delia's purved out.
DERSHOWITZI attorney puts up his town home for collateral to
spring his client. Slash friend not Dershowitz, threatens Kragan, Benson
and Tomorrow, telling them they're playing in shark confested waters.
Then Chris shows up trying to tell Tomorrow what really
happened to the governor, but she thinks she's going to
be next and gets spooked at the prospect of making
a statement in the precinct where the bot CoP's eyes

(08:59):
can see. Smash cut to Cragan coming to in his bed.
He's got a bloody hand and there's a dead Carissa
with her throat slashed at the foot of his bed,
and we get a shocking. So this is why I
stopped drinking, Dick Wolf, We sure.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Do blood on your hands in a hore in your bed, and.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Not remembering a goddamn thing, because we all know that
Craigan was a blackout drunk.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, I guess it's a bad way to wake up
if you're a former alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Did I relapse?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
I assume by the Alan Dershowitz style lawyer, you're talking
about Arvin Sloane from Alias Yeah Kin Yeah, big Ron
Rifkin fan he really plays the skeazy, evil attorney. Well,
oh yeah, when he threatens them in the hallway of
the court building, it's a legit threat. Yeah. I mean,
I feel like Dershowitz could be threatening me about saying

(09:54):
libelous things about Gallaine Maxwell.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Or something, you know, Oh for sure. Okay, So I
think before we get into anything, we probably need to
touch on the fact that this is ripped from not one,
but two headlines.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay, yeah, go ahead, please.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
So this episode owes partly to the rape accusation levied
against New York City Fox five News reporter Greg Kelly,
interesting son of the then New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly.
Ray Kelly was commissioned twenty two to twenty thirteen and
was the National Father's Day Committee two thousand and three
choice for Father of the Year. Greg Kelly's accuser charged

(10:28):
that he'd taken advantage of her when she'd had too
much to drink, but the DA's office ended up not
bringing charges against him, citing insufficient evidence. Weird per an
interview with BuzzFeed, she said she felt strongly and suddenly
very impaired on the third drink they had on a
date while they were both seeing other people. She remembers
only bits of what happened after their three drinks at
a bar. She only put together that she'd been raped

(10:50):
over the days that followed. This meant, of course, that
no drug test was going to turn up anything. When
she started asking questions, hinting that she might be trying
to piece together with he drugged her, he clammed up
and more or less didn't respond to her communications. She
later found out she was pregnant by him because her
boyfriend had previously had a vasectomy. She didn't end up
pressing charges for three months, waiting until January of twenty twelve,

(11:13):
meaning there was very little real life SVU was able
to use to prove a crime advent committed.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
I'm sure they really investigated a rape allegation against Ray
Kelly's kid too.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Oh yeah, totally. Of course, the tabloid press in New
York vilified the accuser the true blue New York Golden Boy.
So that's fucking great.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Actually, I think you kind of have three actually, because
you obviously have Heidi Flice.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Delia Wilson's actually an apparent nod to the Upper east
Side Madam soccer mom Madam Anna Christina. Yeah, both of
these cases had happened in the six months leading up
to this episode.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh okay, I mean was that the Elliot Spitzer was
the east Side bad So.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
She's the soccer mom madam. Okay, So she ran a
laborate prostitution ring from an Upper east Side apartment that
was busted in early twenty twelve. She had cops in
the payroll who were tipping her off to any raids,
and her lawyer put up his condo as collateral for
her two million dollar bail. She pled guilty and was
sentenced to six months, which she'd served while awaiting trial.
She was running prostitutes to an HIV positive Charlie Sheen,

(12:19):
who was paying extra to have unprotected sex with her girls.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Great guy.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
So yeah, yeah, good times. I mean, obviously, like almost
any madam bust, they're probably pulling in a little here
or there. Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously in recent memory,
Jeffrey Epstein is closer.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, yeah, rip, yeah no, But that was clearly a joke.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
We both want to be on record for that, because
Jeffrey Epstein can fucking burn.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
But Dillian Wilson is also definitely has a touch of
the Heidi flies about her because Heidi flies. She also
had a farm, but in her case it was a
parrot rescue farm that she lived out at, and there's
certain things like that.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, Dilia Wilson had a weird animal protection thing going
on to Sorry, Pristina.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
D Okay, I don't want to give any spoilers away
from the second slash third part of this three parter
because I've actually watched the whole thing at this point.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, spoiler alert. The next part is not just one part.
It's actually two full fucking episodes. It's like an hour
and twenty minute. It's a full fucking movie.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, but what three times as much blot as a
regular movie has? Holy shit. No, But I would say
that the Elliott Spitzer case comes into it as well,
because they take down some powerful people are taken down.
I'll just put it that way, and we will get
there when we get there. Should we talk about some
of the actors involved? You tease them in the recamp?

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Obviously starting at the Sad Top, We've got Dean Winters,
who's back as Cassidy.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
You know what, I was thrilled with Dean Winter's performance,
and he.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Was actually really good in this episode. I do get
into this in the in my episode notes, but he's
actually so much better in this part playing this by
far the bells getting that.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
By far the best Dean Winners performance that I've seen
on SVU, at least in the munch of my Benson run.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, he's actually a ton of fun. This is his
first time back since season one. We'll get into all
that later. Uh huh. Okay, So then we've got Pipa
Black playing Carissa Gibson.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
I just want to say about PIPA Black. She has
the most Australian name I've ever heard in my life.
She also is about the most Australian looking person I've
ever seen that's not an Aboriginal Australian. Yes, surprisingly, until
the second time I watched this, I didn't even detect
notes of her accents.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
I picked it up right away. Okay, it was actually
fairly bothered by it. Initially. It's one of those like
she sort of has a milk toast. Who knows where
this accent's from. She's masking Australian, but she's not trying
to be a New Yorker either, so you can't really
tell what the fuck she's supposed to be in Australia.
She was in Neighbors. She was also right before this
in there was that NBC sitcom in twenty ten and

(14:55):
eleven called Outsourced. She was in that too. That's what
NBC fans at the time would have known her.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Asked, Yeah, I mean she's good. Who else we got,
I mean we got.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Well, we've got brook Smith playing Dalia Wilson. Yeah, she's
probably most famous as Catherine Martin the VIC and the
Hole in Silence of the Lambs.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, she's done like multiple episode work on Grey's Anatomy,
Ray Donovan, Bosh, and Bates Motel.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Speaking of Bosh, Eric Ledeen the I guess you'd call
him like the straight Anderson Cooper guy. He is probably,
at least in my mind, most well known for being
the investigative reporter from Bosh, but he's also been in
a bunch of other things as well. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
He played Jamie Wright in the first two seasons of
The Killing. He was Jay Edgar Hoover in Boardwalk Empire,
like a super young j Edgar Hoover h before the
FBI was started.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
He was James Chaffin in Generation Kill. If any of
you guys saw they the David Song mini series, Yeah,
starring a guy went to middle school with which one
Stark Sands.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Okay, the same middle school you went to with Richard Spencer.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
He didn't show up until ninth grade, which was my
last year being there. But yes, so I did not
really know him. Sure, I know people that knew him
though your.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Locker like right next to him, though, didn't you.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
I mean we would have been near each other and assembly,
but I don't remember man. Yeah, especially when he got
decked by that guy right after the inauguration. I really
wanted to say that I knew him, but I really
just yeah, racking my brain, have no recolletion of having class,
having any conversation with a fucking guy.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Doesn't he fully off the Trump train? Now?

Speaker 1 (16:22):
I think he's been fully deplatformed. He's like not on
Twitter anymore. Maybe he is, I don't know, but I
don't have to hear about him.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Back to Eric, either Laden or Laddin. He was also
in I know they are multiple listeners of this show
that used to watch Long Meyer. He was in Longmyer,
he was in Shooter, he was in Madmen, and he
was in for all mankind and this is like multiple
episode arcs. He wasn't just in one episode of these shows.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Then we've got Peter Jacobson as Bart Ganzelle. Yeah, he
was Talb from House obviously, so he was on like
four seasons of House, I think, and then he was
in Colony the Americans and Ray Donovan also a.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Lot of Ray Donovan crossovers.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, a lot of Ray Donovan This good thing though
Ray Donovan characters have appeared in the show.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
We've got Reggie Cathy, who is probably best well known
as the kind of the same character in The Wire,
playing the kind of sleazy, well connected in that case,
he's a journalist turned kind of political operator.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
In this case, he's yeah for Karkatty.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, he's a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Norman Wilson is his character's name, since that's in the
same universe. He's presumably changed his name because Karkatty screwed
the Poochsa royally that he had to flee the old
Line state to opt out for the relative anonymity afforded
him in New York. He's also won an Emmy for
Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama for House of Cards

(17:40):
before his untimely death in twenty eighteen, reportedly from lung cancer.
Barry Quorns returns in conjunction with his OZ castmatee Dean
Winters through the next season in three episodes, including the
next two parts. And then this is kind of a
particular note. Barry Querns shares a last name with a
character he played in OZ, Marvin Corns, forcing one to

(18:01):
wonder whether OZ is also in this universe, which opens
up another can of worms, because Stabler, Cassidy and we
haven't gotten to him yet, but JK. Simmons, they're all
three in OZ, and they all three pop up on
this show. So he was also Barry k Word in
Lights Out Warren Lights Show right before this, which makes

(18:23):
me assume that he's the father to former Chiefs running back,
Barry Word.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Gets curiouser and curious, sir. Of course, we already kind
of mentioned Ron Rifkin, who, in addition to being in Alias,
was in La Confidential.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
And before this, he'd actually showed up in the season
thirteen premiere as Marvin Exley, which is based on the
Dominique Strauss Khan case, where franko'neiro plays the DSK part.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
I can't wait till we get to that one sounds fun.
He's in one hundred and ten episodes of Brothers and Sisters,
which I have not watched a single one of them,
so I have no comment on that.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, I know, I was like, yeah, I mean, Jackie
watched that, but she's probably the only listener, only listener
of the show that much. Brothers and Sisters. Okay, and
so we've got two more. We've got Amy Hargraves, who
played Iris Peterson. She was Jane Wellesley in season five
episode to Manic, which we covered back in It was

(19:17):
the best of Culkins. It was the worst of Culkins. Yeah.
Now it's been a while since I've seen that episode,
but I believe she was the sales rep who gave
the unit the goods on the company, knowing about aftral
severe possible side effects. She's played three characters on five
episodes of SVU. She was also in twenty episodes of Homeland,
and she's main cast on Thirteen Reasons Why. She was

(19:41):
heavily featured in The Fastbender Schlong Vehicle Shame, and I
mean heavily featured.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Which I gotta say, did you watch that movie?

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah? I saw, I saw it.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
I would have enjoyed it if it was about more
about just like, you know, actually shamefully masturbating all the time.
But there there was a lot of his sister singing
New York, New York or some shit in a bar,
and it's just about maybe want to slit my wrists digression, Sorry.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
About Amy Hargraves. She was also Sam Macon Blair's character's
sister in Blue Ruin, that awesome Jeremy Solnier movie, which,
if people haven't seen Blue rowin Blue Ruined, the fucking shit,
it's so good. And then lastly, we've got Matt Burns
playing Will Brady. This is the Sioux Falls native's second
appearance on SVU. The first time was in season eleven,

(20:31):
episode two from two thousand and nine called Sugar, where
he played Owen Cassidy in a Sonya Paxton episode featuring
Eric McCormick, which makes me have to wonder does this
mean that Cassidy is related to the police Commissioner? Interesting
because presumably Will Brady has changed his name after the
shame that befell him under his pseudonym own Cassidy. But

(20:53):
I assume they're also.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Can well, I got we got one more IMDb note.
But I do want to just point out that Will Brady,
the police commissioner's kid, looks exactly an acts exactly like
Jared Kushner. I saw that guy and I was like, oh,
this guy did it. He's a scumbag. But it turns
out he didn't really do it. He was just he
was just discussed. Yeah. I want to give a shout
out to the the homicide detective who was investigating the

(21:18):
governor's murder. And I apologize. There's lawn work going on
next door to me. Guy's doing the best job of
blowing that anybody's ever done it. Nope, nought, fuck it,
all right, fuck this, Okay. I want to give a
shout out to the homicide detective who investigated the governor's death.
And he is played by Paul bart Gaze. He has

(21:39):
a small part in it. He only has a couple
of lines, but I enjoyed it, so I looked him up.
In the late eighties, he was a regular in Troma films,
so he was in Toxic Avenger Part two and three.
He was in Class of Newcombe High Part two, Bikini Bistro,
A lot of fun ones. So it's a lot of
fun stuff to check out there. I would I'm kind
of interested in going down his entire filmography. Holy shit,

(22:05):
there's a lot of things that happen right away in
this one, right yeah, pull.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Side, We straight up see an escort go out of
frame and after a beat, here is zipper, followed by
an ecstatic moan. So there are five people watching this
fucking douchebag get blown.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Let's talk about the wardrobe here. So we're in a
bachelor party, right Yeah. Every guy in the bachelor party
is wearing a suit, which is a little weird, Like
what kind of asshole goes to a bachelor party wearing
a suit? There's also about like one hundred dudes there.
It's a big bachelor party.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
The extras budget on this episode was fucking insane.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Really, this is, so to speak, beating around the bush
because there is a lot of lingerie in this bachelor party.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah. Well, while watching a show constantly detailing grotesque rapes
for its viewers, it's somehow more shocking and jarring to
see a real piece of shit young captain of industry
getting pleasure from being blown by a sex worker. Has
this show canditioned us to not be able to accept
transactional but presumably consensual sex acts as Okay, I.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Mean it kind of has because I'm like, you know,
and just see sort of like above board semi nudity.
We've discussed this before. Yeah, it's it's almost more shocking
to see somebody choosing to be naked than to see
somebody whose clothes have been ripped off as part of
a murder.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
And you know, sometimes it's live taking the victim's clothes
off to show them their bruises.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, I would say in this one, we have a
little bit. We have a couple times where we could
queue that live line with the little girl on girl
action from Hooked, because yeah, that's it. They definitely make
a point. Okay, this whole thing is a set up,
right to obviously have Eric Ledein find the dead body
in his bed. Yeah, and it's an extended setup though
there's a lot going on. There's somebody filming the whole

(23:46):
thing with it. It looks like a pretty high end
prosumer camcorder from like the early two thousands, which I
think is funny. It's a little qoint.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Clearly one of their buddies is a videographer.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
I thought it was a little quaint to see one
of those things.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, there was also a former Yankee at this bachelor party,
so that makes this a baseball episode, right.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Well, former Yankee plus two current major leaguers, so definitely
a baseball episode. I was trying to see because there
was like a couple dudes that looked like I'm stereotyping
blah blah blah, but they look like NFL players right
where they were like large.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
They did mention there was an there was an NFL
player there.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Oh they did. There was any belief they did.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
It in NHL, yes, but I believe they also mentioned
there were football players there in the in that rundown
of who I was there, and there were maybe I
may be misremembering.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Multiple hedge fun guys, two secret Service agents, and then
of course the bachelor party dude.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
And some foreign dignitaries.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah. I mean, these fucking dorks. Though they're surrounded by
ultra haunt escorts, they're supposed to be partying, and they're
fucking talking about the IMF loans to Greece. What fucking dorks? Man?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
I hate Yeah, fuck those guys.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Really, this is like they are the main reason why
New York actually sucks is because it's filled with finance
dickheads like those guys.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
This is probably a pointed statement about that.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
It definitely is. It's definitely like making a point to say,
these guys fucking suck because obviously, clearly one of the
Hedge Fun guys that are mentioned is.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Just the worst douchebag ever.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
I mean, next to the open robed old fucker. From
which episode was that Bound Bound? Yeah, we covered that
in Bound, which we we covered in SBU and Matricide
by proxy, that was episode twenty one. We had an
open robed young man who loved to stick it to
the old ladies, and by old we mean like octagenarian old.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Not stick it too, stick it in the old. That
guy was awesome though, I'm super into that guy anyway.
So the obvious conclusion is that they're getting around saying
that it's Derek Jeter because they say he's retired. Now,
if this was a year later, the presumption is that
it's a Matt and it's Matt Harvey.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Right, yeah, I guess you're right. I didn't really look
at that as far as the years, because a Rod
still in the league at this point, right, Yeah, but
a Rod.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Doesn't go to bachelor parties. He just fucks people in
front of paintings of himself as a centaur.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
That's true. Well, yeah, Jeter is totally a bachelor party dude. Brow.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, I'm just trying to think of some former Yankee
that's douchey enough that would have been retired in two
thousand and.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
It's Mo, man, It's Mo. And as it turns out,
these guys are all like fundamentalist Christians who have like
genocide parties in their backyard, and that's what Marianna Rivera is. Therefore,
he's like, oh, we can, we can kill indigenous people.
That's I'm here for it.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yep, there's another Marianna Rivera outrageous thing that I want
to say, but I'm not going to. Moving right along.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Unanimous Hall of Famer fuck that. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Fuck that guy. Anyway. I love that these fuck nuts
of privilege all got trapped in and overloaded ab elevator
trying to escape. I fuck that.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
But there's a whole scene of like in the background,
there's there's like text trying to open up the elevator.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, they're all fucking trapped, fucking idiots. So Wall Street
Guy number one, Chris Stack, the actor.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Oh my god, we'll say I remember the top of red.
She could barely talk, but like she was on something.
Nothing that I gave her.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
I'm not sure what that look on his face was,
as he related that he remembered what she looked like
while blowing him, but I don't think it was going
to endear him to Rollins.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, and remember, I don't remember the exact timeline, but
this is a sixteen year old Canadian girl. So she
did not grow up in the mean streets of New
York City. She grew up in the nice, down home
world of Winnipeg, Manitoba. And as somebody who's been watching
a lot of Canadian television recently, there's some bad people
out there, but generally speaking, the family life is always

(27:44):
at least comforting, and you know, there's always a warm
meal to be had at Tim Horton's, and you know,
it's just everybody's friendly up there.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I usually drink out of a Tim Horton's mug.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Nice it's a friendly Calgary. Yeah from Calgary.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Weird Calgary, Calgary. No, we went to Banfs a couple
of years ago.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
I hear that Yellowknife's going to become the new Calgary.
That's what Arctacare has been telling.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Me because of global warming.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Well partially because of global warming, because they do bring
that up, but also because of the resource boom. There's
uranium and diamonds to be mined up there.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Man, well, I guess that's where I'm going now. Uh huh.
So so Live has been on this unit for fourteen
to fifteen years at this point. Yeah, how the fuck
is she asking Craigan why he wants them to tread lightly?

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah? Obviously the police commissioner's kid was there, plus a
bunch of super rich people, like how many times have
they been in trouble with iab with all sorts of people.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
What doesn't she understand about how money affects power and
policing in this country?

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Absolutely? So I want to backtrack just slightly because that
finance sky douchbag. After he says well, ooh her, well,
I say, I remember the top of her head. He
then immediately turns to rawlins looks at the handcuffs in
her jenes, which I don't know if that's like exactly
the best place you should be putting those if you're
a detective right, because somebody could easily access them like.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
They should be. Well, they're probably on a button like
they should be on a belt. Yeah, sort of cuff
holster almost but whatever. But he says to her, do
you ever use your handcuffs and bit you ever get
laid without pamport?

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Pretty good comeback.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
That's pretty much her her moment in the episode. Otherwise
she kind of sucks.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, but he basically is like, well, you're right, that's
a good point. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
No, I mean that was a quick brutal burn.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
I just want to throw this out because I don't
want to talk about it very much. But we have
some brutal scenes in this that I don't even think
that you mentioned, or if you did, ID wasn't listening about.
We just take this down shift. We're going ninety miles
an hour because we've been in the midst of a
lurid sex party for the first five minutes of the show,
and we immediately shift gears and we're at Nika Morrow's house.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
With this my next note his ah wife. It is
just like God, it's boring. Just immediately all energy has
lost and we have to hear about their shit.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
This is actually the first episode she's in after Street Revenge,
which we coming back in Fantastica, Yeah, where he drove
off to Philly midshift to assault Maria's buddy before he
finds out she was changing on with therapy. That was
like five episodes before this.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, and this was definitely kind of foreshadowing her role
in Military Justice, which, yeah, I'm going to looking up
the name what we did.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
They're clearly like about to separate.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, right, things are not going well between them, Yeah,
they're not, and they're not going well on screen, and
it's really Amorrow is not. He does not really do
well in this episode as a police officer. To his credit, though,
I wouldn't say that he necessarily did anything inappropriate with
whatever fucking name is, Carissa. He held the line as

(30:48):
it were, Yeah, but Cassidy and well everybody keeps making
these insinuations that he didn't. Yeah, So Cassidy says it,
and Ganzelle says that, and all these people talk about
his relationship with Carrisa.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
I know why they're doing that. I remember that Tomorrow
was going to be the mark, yeah, and they were
going to fuck Tomorrow over. I know that's the angle
that they're going for, and so they're trying to impugne him,
like set up the stage for when she eventually wears
him down. But yeah, obviously don't get there quite yet.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
As it turns out, that's not what they did.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
That's not what they ended up doing because Tomorrow kept
rebuffing her advances.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, but honestly, as it turns out, they had a
better angle going after Craigan to begin right, because going
after Craigan goes after the entire investigation, whereas going after Amorrow,
who gives a shit about Tomorrow, he's just a regular detective.
We need to talk about this Warner scene because this is, yeah,
one of the greatest Tamartuni appearances of all time. I

(31:43):
think this is definitely goes in the pantheon.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, but so, so she tells them that it's a CuPy.
Cuppy stands for Circumstances on determined pending police investigation. So
she's basically like, hey, fuckers, this isn't on my plate anymore.
You have to prove that a crime happened. It's not
just going to be the Emmy bailing your asses out,
which then Rollins decides she's going to butt heads with Warner.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
I'm kicking this back to you. It's a copy appending
police investigation.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
You told us she was dead when she went to
that pool.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Somebody moving the body doesn't prove homicide.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
It's your job. Thanks a lot, which makes this what
the third or fourth time we've seen Rollin's giving two
to a woman of color who is just doing her
fucking job. Yeah, that's actually a great I mean, I
think it's pretty clear she's a racist, right, I mean
she gave attitude to Ronnie Pattison Street revenge.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Huh. You want me to match a Metro card to
a board of ed employee.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
I don't have time for that.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
One hundred and thirty five thousand people work here. Well,
it's the police matter, so you don't have to make time.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Excuse me.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
All I have to do is stay black and eye. Yeah,
Ronny Pettis was just doing your freaking job. She was
actually trying to help them. Yep, and fucking yeah, fuck Rowlands,
what was your other? Was your other? Rolands?

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Well? Then, well the scapollamine bit. Obviously, I've used it.
I wish I used it one additional time, because that
fishing trip in port A was fucking brutal.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
I think I threw up seven or eight times from
seasickness because it was like what eight foot seas nine?
It was six to eight, which is we shouldn't add
on that size the boat.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
No, I mean you have to be on a really
big boat for that, Like there's no there's no party
fishing boat where that's comfortable. They should have told us
it's going to be miserable, That's what they should have
told us.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Because it was.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
It was.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
There were only what two people who didn't throw.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Up, me Pike and Bobby and Mannix, So there are
four of us that didn't throw up.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Out of the Manx, Mannix threw up, I think, oh.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
He might have, but he think he only.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Threw up once. But he threw up and was napping
for a little bit inside.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
But there were like three of us that didn't throw
up out of twenty two people on board, and including
the uh the captain threw up. I don't know if
the deckhands.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
One of the other deckhands did too. I think he
was hung over.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
The lady who was working the galley, she definitely puked.
It was miserable, that terrible. We had no business being
out there. We got three fish between thirty like twenty
five people over the course of eight hours. Back to
the show, this is my favorite Warner, one of my
favorite Warner moments of all time, because she's talking about
the victim, Maggie Murphy, and she says there's no signs
of trauma except for abrasions on her knees, semen in

(34:15):
her mouth and throat, and two and a half ounces
in her stomach contents. That's more than one guy. This
girl was working hard, Yeah, which is an understatement because
I actually went down and tracked down the math.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Now I've seen the math done somewhere else. Someone else
did it for me, so I didn't have to.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
So the average male ejack is sometime somewhere between one
point twenty five and five millileaters. Now two point five
ounces is approximately seventy four milli leaders. So what we're
talking about is somewhere between fifteen and sixty loads dumped
in her mouth, with the median load working out to

(34:53):
about twenty twenty spooches down the pipe. Yeah, which is
this woman is sixteen years old, Josh. This is not
the first time we've hyper sexualized underage girls and SVU,
but still I'm just I'm shocked. I'm shocked.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
When Live sees her body pool side, she says, oh,
she's so young. Casting wise, they probably actually cast a
twenty something. Yeah, probably, Yeah, it looks like to look
at her, I don't think that you can just say, oh,
she's so young like Live did, because the actress that
they cast, she doesn't look scream sixteen. She doesn't scream like.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
She doesn't look fourteen like the fourteen year old that
was in that Michael kay Williams episode.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, I think who was maybe even thirteen. Yeah, that
was creepy as fuck. Yeah that was gross. This is like,
twenty isn't old, but I mean twenty still like feels
young to me as far as like, who could even
talk to a twenty year old? What's the point of
that anyway?

Speaker 1 (35:47):
But they keep hitting back on this though, because Olivia
later says, we need to go after these guys. Maggie
Murphy was sixteen and she spent the whole night on
her knees.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, and then there's the whole like she's pissed that
some surge gave her a breast implant.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
We got a hit on our bigs. Breast implants her
plastic surgeon. I did her as Maggie Murphy from Winnipeg.
She's sixteen, sixteen, and he gave her implants live.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
We can't prosecute a Winnipeg's surgeon. His whole job in
this episode is really just raining live in. Yeah, it's like,
this is probably the worst most detached from reality policing
that we've had lived since maybe the first three episodes
that we covered.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, which was the first episode she was in, and
then of course the heavy for four episodes because.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, four sorry it was the fourth episode.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
One Baby Gone was episode four. That's the one where
Brookshields abducts baby boy Dough.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Right after this, she also gets pissed when they hand
her the video coverage of virtually the entire night.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
I know, right, they have eight hours eight hours of footage,
yud you do, because she was indignant that theseies, rich
douchebags were having fun with prostitutes. Yeah, and for the
most part, okay, so obviously one of these girls was
underage and was therefore the wrong reasons as it turns out.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
And was used as a pond. Like that's all fucked
up inarguably, but to be fair to the guys in
the Bachelor party, this was like a semi legal thing. Yeah,
they're getting escorts, and I mean that's not legal.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
No, no, but getting escorts is legal. It's getting legal. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, it's exchanging money for sex explicitly.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, that's that. They weren't doing that. They're paying money
to have them come to the party. That's yes.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Well the implication, of course, is something entirely different.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Sure, but I mean at least as long.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
As they're just dancing, then it doesn't matter. As long
as it's just strippers.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, or they're just hanging out and having a conversation,
you know, that's all they're doing.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
While getting blown pool side.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Well, but I mean that's just a side. That's what
happens at the end of a conversation with a finance guy.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Right, finance guys should never get blown.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
But liv gets so indignant about this, and she's a
career sex crimes investigator. This is not nearly the worst
thing that she's experienced. Yeah, is seeing a party full
of dick Obviously their dickheads, and they probably have money
that shouldn't belong to them, but still, it's like them
having sex workers over at their house is not the
worst thing that Live has investigated, and she treats it

(38:09):
like it's like such a terrible, you know, moral failing.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
When Brady hands over the tape, he says, hey, you
only get married for the first time once. I know,
so he's clearly already planning for a divorce.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
I know, what a dick head, Yeah, what a douchebag. Well,
and yeah, the way he had his hands all over
those lap dancers definitely screamed first marriage.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
In the next scene, where Rollin's and Finn and Amorrow
are sitting around the table going through evidence pouring over
the camera footage, Rollin says, never underestimate and NaN's capacity
for self delusion, which to me read is way too
poignant for something to be coming out of Rollins's mouth.
So I did a little digging. So the first time

(38:50):
these words explicitly were put together was Roger Cohen wrote
a New York Times opinion piece about Cadafi called The
Price of Delusion. This is in April of twenty eleven,
and he said, but never under estimate the human capacity
for delusion. And then as I dive deeper, it looks
like this is all a nod to a passage from
seventeen fifty nine's Adam Smith treatise The Theory of Moral Sentiments.

(39:10):
I found this information on some blog called the Conservable Economist.
So the passage from the book reads thusly, or from
the treatise, whatever essay, whatever this fucking shit hadened.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Neoliberal screed actually prodiliberal. Yeah, liberal screed.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
So Smith wrote, the opinion which we entertain of our
own character depends entirely on our judgments concerning our past conduct.
It is so disagreeable to think ill of ourselves that
we often purposely turn away our view from those circumstances
which might render that judgment unfavorable. He is a bold surgeon,

(39:52):
they say, whose hand does not tremble when he performs
an operation upon his own person. And he is often
equally bold who does not hesitate to pull off the
mysterious veil of self delusion which covers from his view
the deformities of his own conduct. Rather than see our
own behavior under so disagreeable an aspect, we too often

(40:14):
foolishly and weakly endeavor to exasperate anew those unjust passions
which had formerly misled us. We endeavor, by artifice to
awaken our old hatreds, and irritate afresh our almost forgotten resentments.
We even exert ourselves for this miserable purpose, and thus
persevere in injustice, merely because we were once unjust, and

(40:37):
because we are ashamed and afraid to see that we were.
So this self deceit, this fatal weakness of mankind, is
the source of half the disorders of human life. If
we saw ourselves in the light in which others see us,
or in which they would see us, if they knew all,
a reformation would generally be unavoidable. We could not otherwise
endure the site.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
So was the richer Cohen about Libya? Was that before
Kadafia was toppled?

Speaker 2 (41:02):
And was it like it was April of twenty eleven?
So I think so, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I think the Arab spring, the Arab spring was happening,
but Kaddaffi hadn't fallen yet. Yeah, And so I mean,
did you read it? I didn't.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, I read it. It's not that long.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
But was it arguing in favor of military action against Libya?

Speaker 2 (41:19):
No, it's really just a piece about Goddaffi being fucking
being insane. He would endear himself to the West, and
then it's just Kadaffi.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Being yeah, but building him up as as like an
oriental kind of despot who needs to be thrown over.
Because it's interesting hearing that Adam Smith piece and then
thinking about how we overthrew Libya without having any plan
in place with what to do with it afterwards, because that's.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Wow, that's weird. That's not like us at all.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
No, no, yeah, And so I mean we've done a
good job of stabilizing the entire fucking world over the
last twenty years, but not the podcast for that picking.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Up where the United Kingdom did.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah where they left off, Thanks Briton. Okay, So for
Eddie listener who does know who Adam Smith was, he's
essentially the father of economics and capitalism. Yeah, kind of
the original champion of the free market. Presumably this makes
Rollin's a capitalist pig if she's quoting it.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, obviously, I mean that makes sense. One more kind
of like world events thing going on. So the newscaster dude,
Eric Laedeen, was trying to he was going to go
cover the crisis in North Korea.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yes, and he was.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
He was about to leave the country to do that
before they actually held his plane. Didn't really turn out
too much because he as it turns out, besides moving
the body, he didn't have any part to play in
the murder.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
But still, so I was tampering with the crime scene.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Tampering with the crime scene, thank you. But so I
was trying to figure out what that could have been.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
And yeah, I looked into it too.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
And I'm pretty sure they were probably talking about the
death of Kim Jong ill, which happened in December twenty eleven.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
I looked at a timeline of North Korea at this time. Yeah,
so the North Korean government was engaging in a slew
of bullshit posturing. Yeah, and this is all right around
the centennial of Kim Il sung's birth, who was the
founder of North Korea. They've been trying to blaunch a
bunch of satellites and failing, and this resulted in food
aid getting cut off. And this is all right at
that time. North Korea was posturing a lot at this point,

(43:14):
and so there was a lot of diplomatic bullshit going
back and forth.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
But they were sort of having to because you know,
they wrote this back in April. They were having to
look into the future a little bit and be like, okay,
well where would he be going? And so there's a
little bit of predictive forecasting going on here about geopolitical shit.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
And they made it. They made it vague.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah, yeah, they kept it vague. In April, they shot
up a satellite and it exploded, but the satellite was
violating an arms treaty that they had signed back in
December or January.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah. But so this was all part of like a
behind the scenes power struggle going on after the death
of Kim Jong Ill right and right when Kim John
King was kind of cementing his leadership, right before he
became friends with our big fat leader. Love them, man,
they're great.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Good. Dude's big shout out to Dennis Rodman for breaking
the iron curtain.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Over there, we cut to bar Ganzel. Yeah, and holy shit,
he is bearing a lot of chests when we meet him.
I had four buttons undone on that striped shirt. Well,
he's got two buttons done above the belt and he's
wearing a medallion. This is what I imagine Jeffrey Epstein
wished he could be like before William Barr had him killed.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah, but man, Yeah, I love Ganzelle. He's a lot
of fun. Peter Jacobson has a lot of he relishest when.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
He's getting interrogated. When he's getting interrogated, I seriously he
was chomping online so much. I thought he was chewing guph.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Now. That was another scene where it's like I was
just marveling at the lingerie budget at this episode because
it's just like there's so much lingerie, Like did they
just buy an entire Fredericks of Hollywood before they made this?

Speaker 2 (44:46):
It's one of those weird things where like if you
know anything about how movies are made or TV is made,
you have to wonder like how much their featured extra
budget is because like all of them in Lingerie have
to be making more, like right, you don't sign up
as an extra to do that, like you're you're getting
a bump. And so they seriously have at least over

(45:06):
the course of this episode. What thirty women walking around
in lingerie?

Speaker 1 (45:11):
No, what I want to know is there a graded
scale there, because there's a few women that we definitely
watching that first day.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
If they're if they're up in front in like if
they're on camera, trained on camera, like the ones who
are giving them.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Like there's a red the ones who were giving.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
A lap dance to Will, though, they're definitely getting more
of a bump because they're like featured extras and there
their time to lingerie.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
They got the lingerie multiplier, you know, it's like the
it's like the Mega millions kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
I don't know how things work New York wise, and
I haven't worked on a lot of shows where I'm
high enough up on production on a show where like
there's there's a lingerie scene or something like that to
know how exactly it works in LA But it's not.
There's no way they're not having to pay a higher
premium for that. And I mean most background is making
fuck all now, I mean fifty dollars on an eight

(45:58):
hour day or something.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
It makes sense. This was both the season finale and
then the season premiere, and the network requested to have
a two part season premiere have a double time slot,
so it's not surprising that they had like an extra
budget for these episodes, right. I really enjoyed Dean Winter's
Cold Cocky Tomorrow because at this point in the episode,
like I was already sick of Tomorrow and I'm just

(46:21):
going to tell you we get a lot more tomorrow.
There's a lot of tomorrow in this fucking three parter,
and Dean Winters knocks the shit out of him.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah. Also like his like suggestive interplay with liv is
like seriously funny and not funny laughing at Dean Winters
delivering the lines like no, actually like relishes these lines.
And he's actually really good.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
In this well, and I totally buy.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
I can't believe we're talking about this. I can't believe
we're both like, Oh, Dean Winters was actually really good
in this episode, but he was, No, it.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Was I totally bought his character, like him as this
as this guy, the kind of like questionable ethics undercover
guy that fits.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
And like deep cover. Yeah, he's been in with Gan
for what two or three years?

Speaker 1 (47:01):
It totally fits as opposed to what he's in season one,
where's he's you supposed to be kind of like the
junior detective under mar Munch and he really just falls flat.
But so I totally like that.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
So back to Jacobson, I think he does hit a
few weird notes in the interrogation, weird enough that I
kind of have a hard time buying him as a
high dollar escort runner. Yeah, I could see that, But
somehow that actually adds like an element of camp to
this episode that still plays kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Deelia Wilson totally is more believable as the kind of
high priced madam than he is.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Just got this farm. What the fuck? This is like
the most elaborate cover I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
What her farm?

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Like, what the It's also a three and a half
hour jog from New York.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, yeah, that's so.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
I looked up all the cards for this. We'll just
do this right now because we're talking about one of them.
Her farm is twenty three North Union Street in Cambridge,
New York. Cambridge, New York, is a three and a
half hour drive from midtown Manhattan. Where that's for you
precinct is I timed it from Grand Central Terminal, so
you know, right downtown and yeah, three and a half

(48:07):
hour drive. It's just northeast of Albany, Jesus are, It's
really fucking far. It's right on the Vermont border. It's
actually kind of believable if she's catering to New York
state big weeks. So if her business, do.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
You think she was feeding Keith Nary women for an exium.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Well probably man Man next even watching the val no
I need to though, yeah, next shit, I.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Mean fun ish it in like a holy shit, this
is fucked up.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
In a true crime way. But still it's like I
totally bought it. When I looked up, I was like, wow,
that's really far for tomorrow to Who was it who
went up there? Finn and Rollins, I don't remember now,
Benson was that? Yeah, Benson and Tomorrow. Yeah, that's a
seven hour driving day.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
They went up twice.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
That's two full days to rest her after. Yeah, that's
right exactly, it's a lot of driving. Still I buy
it because it's right next to Albany. Her clientele would
be there potentially, even though even if you're in govern
in New York State, like you don't stay in Albany
that much. Let's be honest.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I mean, she had two ex governors. She was on
their speed dial, I know, but one of them. I
guess you can drop that down to one though, one
of them.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
So next card that we're going to get to. One
of her ex governors lived in the Flat Iron Building.
So his address one seventy one Fifth Avenue, crazy. That's
one of the five most iconic office buildings in the
United States. It's the Flattering Building. Yeah, I know that,
Like normally I don't even bring it up. Oh, back
to Cambridge, New York. Cambridge, New York is where Pie

(49:31):
Alan mode was or originated apparently. Okay, yeah, so there
you go. But yes, the real address of the Flattering
Building is one seventy five Fifth Avenue, but there is
no one seventy one because it would be another storefront
in the Flattering Building. I don't think there's too many
apartments there.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, it could be right, maybe if you're an ex governor.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Yeah, I don't know, it's true. And then the last card,
there are only three cards. The other one was Ganzel's Players,
and that one actually also makes a lot of sense,
just like Delia's. It was five seventy one West twenty
third Street. It would be right across the street from
the Chelsea Piers, right across the West Side Highway. So
actually totally believable, like if I were.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
But is it believable as a residence, because I have
a hard time buying that as a place where someone lives.
That looks like a club where he was hanging out.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
Oh yeah, where he was hanging out was totally a club.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
It's listed as Bart Ganzel's residence. Yeah, but what in
the fuck life does this guy live the address club?
I know fully, totally totally.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
It's always like a bar. It might have been the
same set, like the same location from the strip club
that they go to to meet Cassidy later. It's just
been redressed.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Oh, they would have had to heavily redress it. Yeah,
maybe you're probably there's no windows, there's no and there
was light coming in from outside, which makes it a
weird strip club.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
But I would also say for a strip club, it
had really low ceilings. Yeah, and it's a it's a
weird quibble. But I haven't been to too many strip clubs.
I'm kind of more on.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
The The only one that it's sort of reminiscent of
for me is Mary's. Is it Mary's Bar and Mary's Place?
I think it's Mary's Bar, Mary's Bar in Portland. It's
the oldest strip club in Portland. But it's like a
straight up bar with a normal low ceiling.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah. See that makes sense to me. I've been to
a place in Tijuana where it was like that. Where
it's just like basically like a little stage with a
pole in it, and but it's basically a bar, and
it's like, so there's some girl there.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
No, no, no, not Hong Kong, not Hong Kong.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
The opposite end of the spectrum from Hong Kong. Yeah, well,
maybe that upper room for our listeners that have not
been to Tijuana. Sorry, sorry, the like in the mix
still in the main section, we're not talking about in
the rooms where the dancers would take you up for prost.
I don't know there's a menu anyways, there is. There
are clubs in Tijuana that are not like clubs in
the United States. We'll put it that way.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
So yeah, yeah, I mean like mid day and you're
just like, what the fuck did I just walk into?

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Anyway, it's an experience. Great town. It really gets under
underrated by people, but highly recommend Tijuana.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
TJ is great.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Be safe everywhere you go, but it's a lot of fun. Still. Okay,
so back back.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
To weird digression.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
So did we talk do we want to talk about
the governor scene? Because I really love the governor scene.
So the governor is dead and they're walking and great
performance from Paul Poor Jesse again as the as the
like throwaway one, you know, under five homicide detective who
they ask him what cause for you.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
I'm not a skilled sex crimes detective like you guys,
but my suspicions were aroused when I noticed that the
former governor's pants was and zipped and on backwards. Okay, okay.
So when the assistant is like giving the details and
then she sort of walks away but she's still within earshot,

(52:39):
Fin's like, at least that makes me feel better. I'd
hate to think hers was the last face I saw
before he checked out, I know, And I'm like, Jesus Christ,
that is that's so fucking harsh.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
That's the I've never heard them actually like basically talk
shit about how ugly a woman was on a.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Yeah, it's really fucked up, and so like this. So
she's played by Sandra Landers, whose first tim dB credit
was in The Dick Wolf penned school Ties. Then she's
not in another thing from nineteen ninety two all the
way until two thousand and nine, where she was in
The Lovely Bones and The answer Man. Then she landed this.
It must feel shitty to have this line dropped about you.
When you're struggling to get parts. I will note that

(53:21):
after not landing anything on screen between this episode asked
VU in twenty twelve through twenty eighteen, she's actually had
a solid last two years, landing in the report, high Town,
the plot against America and the politician. Things appear to
be looking up for her. But oh god, that's got
to be harsh. Like you watch that episode and you're
you're probably not on screen anymore when that line comes up,
and it's probably not in your sides when you see it.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
But when you come back and watch it, Because.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
When you come back and watch it and that makes
it to air, you're just like.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
What the fuck when your fucking like sister watches that,
or your kids or something, and.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Then any family member is going to be like uh.
And the shitty thing is she would have told everyone
to like all of her friends, Oh, I'm in the SSPU. Yeah,
like whatever.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
I have like several lines in this SVU, like it's
like a not totally insignificant part.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah she's not an under five.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Yeah, brutal, totally brutal.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
It's a really rough one of the.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Worst things I've heard Finn say. I think maybe the
worst thing.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
I think it's the worst thing I've heard him say.
It's just like what the fuck. And Rollins doesn't give
any pushback either.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
She's not like, man, that's not you can't say that shit,
because I could see Rollin's saying, like, you can't talk
like that. I'm sorry, nothing, just lets it go drops.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
So then we get to Warner and the Morgue or whatever.
She says his blood pressure was seventy over twenty five. Yeah,
and I'm like, that's okay. Neither of us are doctors,
but how can you measure blood pressure postmar You can't,
Like a beating heart is the thing that's providing the blood.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Pressure, Yeah, exactly, there's it's zero. That's what it is,
zero over zero.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
And like, as a non doctor, it's my understanding that
the only force providing blood pressure after death is gravity.
So that's why, like when they cut open a dead body,
the blood doesn't rush out of that wound.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Yeah, because it's all on your feet or whatever.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Yeah, if you're supine, like it would all settle. So
if you're cutting on top of the body, there's no bleeding.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Yeah. No, that was weird. That that was like a weird.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Like when is this dead guy getting a blood pressure stuck.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
It's a good point.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
They established that he had a heart condition. Yeah, your
blood pressure can vary, correct like your blood pressure doesn't
set in at one rate. So if he was seventy
over twenty five at a doctor's appointment, I don't know
how they'd have those records.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yeah, a they wouldn't. So maybe he has like a
nurse on staff or something that's taken it back.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
I mean he's a former governor, so maybe.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yeah, exactly, So that would be the one thing that
it could have made sense.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
The way it's presented, it does not make sense.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
So if you say, are getting a naked massage from
a Japanese messuse who's scantily clad and you're naked, your
blood pressure is going to be different pre massage, then
it will be post massage, right, or at least he
was quick or mid massage, maybe it would be definitely
it'll like spike mid massage. Yeah, yeah, he's quick.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
It'll like yep, as will.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Now you in your recap said the word viagra, but
Emmy Warner did not say.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
You know what's easier than saying off rand the erectile
dysfunction drugs.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Well, okay, here's the thing. I did the research because
she said she had he had two hundred milligrams of
an interrectile dysfunction drug. So they are two main ed drugs.
There's obviously viagra and there's Cialis, and they're two different
active ingredients. Cialis has tadala phil and Viagra has sildenafil titraate.
The dosages are what interested me because she said it

(56:33):
was four times the regular dose. So as it turns out,
has to be viagra because he had two hundred milligrams.
A regular dose of viagra's fifty milligrams, so it checks out.
If it was to dalaphil, it would have been five
milligrams is regular dose, it would have been something like
twenty a lot more. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
I can't remember what exactly you said about.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
I think forty forty yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Forty forty yeah, yeah, because you said two hundred milligrams.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So it was viagra, and I think
I've not dabbled in viagra, but my understanding is if
you take too much of it, it's it's a wild ride.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Okay, So you know, I listened to comedy podcasts and stuff,
and Every once in a while someone will say they
like took viagra and that like their heart was racing,
and yeah they were. They were sort of like a
little concerned the one time they took it.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
I think most comedy podcasts are sponsored by certain.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Hey, Viagra. If you want to be a sponsor of
munch My Benson, yeah, reach out via email or Twitter
or munch My Benson at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Yeah. You can also find us on Facebook at whatever
the fucking Facebook. Yeah. I think it's just a bunch
of my Benson, but there are.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
A bunch of numbers and ship behind it. But yeah,
Twitter is the one that we check more often. Yeah,
if you want to reach out via Twitter, but we
do bens.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
We have a Facebook, we have an IG. Yeah, we're
out there. Also Viagra. If you guys are listening, you
can rate and review us on your podcasting app.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
That always.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
That helps us out a lot.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
So yeah, everyone, it's a pfisor I think right.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Yeah, Pfizer. So Pfizer, please feel free. We'll gladly put
in ads for Viagra. I feel like we're doing one
right now. So if you want to pay us for
this one, cool, go for it. Okay, so I love
Marvin Exley. Ron Rifkin essentially playing the part of like
renowned piece of shit Alan Dershwitz. Rifkin is basically playing Dershowitz,

(58:17):
barging in trying to shut up Iris, only you to
get sent away. Fucking love that shit.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yeah, man, Riffkin in this really reminds me of He
really reminds me of this the Sydney Pollock character from
Eyes White Shut, like you're in way too deep, you
can't handle what's about to happen here, which is actually
probably Alan Dershowitz from the Jeffrey Epstein case.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
I mean it's like, yeah, Eyes White Shut kind of
real life, you know, as it turns out.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Yeah, do you guys know I represent an arms dealer, right,
because that's what Jeffrey Epstein really was. That's how he
really made his money allegedly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
But everyone you can rate and review Alan Dershowitz podcast
as well.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Apparently, yeahs one, give it a one, Give it a one?
Cool anyway, don't give us a one please. If it's
Alan dersho what's giving us a one? I'll take it
as a badge of honor. But at least if you're
going to do that, dirsh, at least leave a review
also with your ID on it.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
So did you do any research to find out why
they named it Roodium Nights? Because I thought that was
a kind of a curious name.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
I actually watched it a third time today because we
were maybe going to tape last weekend and then didn't know,
and so I watched it a third time, and it
occurs to me that it's a really tenuous title, but
that it Roadium's like a really rare precious metal. It's
like super sold, probably some dumb class thing. And I
don't feel like it tracked, Like I don't feel like

(59:40):
anyone really knows what Rodium is to be able to
have the episode of easily the biggest cliffhanger that SBU's
ever done, well, certainly a season ending cliffhanger.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Wasn't there one with like a tragic car accident or
am I confusing that with the original series where like
it's cab it involved in like a terrible car wreck
or something.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Once well, stay Bler's wife is yeah, that's right, Yeah,
Benson's there or something. But I don't know if that's
a season finale.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
No, it's not a season finale. No, it's like a
mid season two part.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
I mean, this is it. Yeah, Creagan wakes up in
fucking bed with a dead hooker and sorry, dead escort, yeah,
dead sex worker. She calls herself an escort, so I'll
leave it as escort. But he wakes up in bed
with a dead escort and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Dead fiance to a you know, diagnostician.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Yeah, he wakes up and he wakes up and it's
it's funny because again, I watched all fucking three hours
of this show. I watched the whole thing, and then
I went back and watched this one again, and I
totally forgotten how there's no build up to it. It's
just she's talking Tillmorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
It is the most jarring, fucking smash cut.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
She's talking to Tomorrow, and then it's like cut to
Craigan looking at his hands covered in blood.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
This is the smash cut of smash cuts.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I don't know if you have more notes on this,
but I'm I want to cover so ad dealer arraignment.
We have eighty A rose Callire weird Ada. Per the
fandom wiki, she frequently handles minor raiments cases appeals and
motions frequently. Yeah, so is this minor? Yeah, no, I
feel like it's not. Now for a frame of reference,

(01:01:16):
season thirteen eighty as jump all over the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Place, Yeah, there's no there's no ada. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
We start with Cabot for two episodes, Yeah, then Novak
for three, Calire for one, Cabot for four the next five,
then executive Ada, Hayden for two of three, Callire again Hayden,
and Callier in the next one, Novak for one of
the next three, Cabot none, and then back to Callier.
So fucking weird.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
This definitely would have been a case for Donnelly, right,
Like you bring in like the executive.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Age, she might have been a judge at this point.
You still you bring in like she's definitely a judge
at this point because she stepped down in what's it's
fucking an episode.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Seasoned Prosecutors that you have because this goes all the
way to the top, and yeah, there's a lot of
things that will fall out from this. Let's just say
the most unrealistic thing about this whole three part episode
is how much fallout there is, because holy shit, there's
a lot of fallout.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Okay, so but That's my last note is did you
catch the weird insert of the mid five between Tomorrow
and Benson when Baiale was set at two million dollars
and they're walking out of the courtroom. There's a weird
tight shot just on their hands at waste level, giving
each other five. But it's tight where you can only
see them between the I don't know, like mid section,

(01:02:30):
mid section to the knees, you know, like strike zone basically,
so weird.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
I mean also, like two million dollars bail for that
it's not enough, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Clearly because it was a townhome. Yes, it was enough
to exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
And I mean, I'm telling you, like, these people they
can I just listened to the whole thing about Jeff
Epstein's relationship with fucking Deutsche Bank, and these people can
fucking shit out alone for three hundred thousand dollars whenever
they want to. It's nothing for them. But man, yeah,
this one it looks like it's going all the way
to the top. I want to give it like a
little bit of a teaser for a segment I'm going
to do next time, because this episode really it gets

(01:03:08):
to this amazing cliffhanger with our guy Don Cragan played
by Dan Floric, and Dan Floric is in my mind
part of a kind of a not as long as
I thought, but a tradition of big bald bosses in television.
And I've done a deep dive and partially I went
through this because this episode really, really really reminded me
of an episode of X Files called Avatar, which features Skinner,

(01:03:31):
who wakes up in bed with the dead prostitute next
to him. Ironically, Skinner is usually only in plot episodes
of X Files, and that is not a plot episode
of X Files. It's a throwaway Monster of the Week,
but it's the one where Skinner wakes up next to
a dead prostitute and a whole lot of shit falls
out from it. This is like the biggest plot episode
we get at this point of SVU, but it being

(01:03:53):
about Cragan, And of course I think that Mitch Poleggi
and Dan Floric are kind.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Of part of a brotherhood, a fraternity.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Their fraternity of big bald bosses, and I'm going to
get into all of the rest of them because I've.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Got I feel like, for alliterative purposes, it has to
be a brotherhood of Big Bald Bosses.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Brother hat of Big Bald Bosses. That's that's absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
And there I feel like that's going to be the
name of the next EPISODEO.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
It probably is. It probably is. But I wanted to
tease that a little bit because I didn't put it
all together in my mind yet, and I didn't know how.
I mean, we've already talked. God, how long have we talked?
We need to put this shit to bed because the
next one is going to be at least two hours long. Oh,
because it's so fucking long.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
It's a super episode.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
You have no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
I haven't seen it yet. I watched it years ago,
but I haven't seen it in at least a decade.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
We're going to have to approach it from a different
way because it's too fucking big. It's so much happens.
But regardless, be that as it may, can we put
this one to bed? Can we can rank this fucker?
I don't even know exactly how we're going to rank
this shit because it leaves us wanting so much. We
don't even know where we stand anyways. Okay, so let's
let's get there. We rank these episodes. You guys know

(01:05:01):
it you love it. We rank them on a on
a ten point four criteria scale, so we can come
up with a come up with a you know, a
language to discuss where they fit next to each other.
And we with the criteria, we judge on our quality.
Guess how problematic it was in the depth and breadth
of the lives ruined. So let's start with the quality.
What do you think overall? How did this one play

(01:05:23):
to you?

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
It's so weird because it's an episode that there isn't
really an analog for. Yeah, I mean, when do we
have a cliffhanger like this at the end of a season.
I really don't recall there being one at all, So,
I mean, aside from the last episode of this last
season twenty one, but that's a different thing entirely because
they had four more episodes slated but they didn't get
to shoot because of the pandemic. Yeah, I mean, I

(01:05:45):
think this episode's good. I think it's pretty fucking good.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
I think it's solid. I mean, the only other cliffhanger
episode we had was Intent. That was season nineteen, episode eight,
which we covered in is that Staten Island slang? And
that was an episode that had a kind of b
plot tacked onto it that had a cliffhanger, but the
A plot was wrapped up by the end of it.
So the A plot, Baby, this is all a plot.

(01:06:09):
There's no fucking B plot in this shit. It is
is hard a plot, And I agree with you. I
think it's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
We have like maybe two minutes of B plot in
this episode. Yeah, I know, the little lamar aside with
this wife. That's pretty much it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yeah, and that's the worst part of it. It really,
it really kind of drags it down. But you forget
about it so quickly. Yeah, you forget about it real fast.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
I mean, I think this is pretty solid. I think
it's probably like a at least a seven, probably an eight, right,
I thought.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
I was thinking seven or eight. Let's see what sevens.
I'm looking at sevens that we've done recently. So risk
was a seven that was season four, episode twelve. I
have no idea which one that was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
I honestly have no idea what episode that was. Sometimes
it's I mean, like I think it's one we have
an edited rent.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah, exactly. So let's go a little bit further back.
So we said hunting Around was a seven. That was
this is better than Tomorrow's peculiar sense of smell. We
also said Death or Christian Entertainment was a seven. That
was pretend, So.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
That one's really good.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
That one was really good.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
It's really good.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
The Rory Kurk Mayor Winningham one was a seven.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
I think it's in that range. I thought seven makes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Sense because of how significant it is, the ending you
will never forget.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
So let's see what we given A two. The only
eight we've given to is Payback. That was the very
first episode.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
So I think it's I think this is Payback. Yeah, yeah,
I think this is an eight.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
I like it. Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Payback's the first episode. Yeah, and I think if we
visited that we might drop it. But we're not going to.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Yeah, I don't want to think about that episode again.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
No, and we've already the one I just did. We
a man, I feel bad about us, you know, changing
scores to fit our scoring system. It makes me feel unethical.
But yeah, regardless. So guests. The guests are all good,
but none of them are really stand out, are they?
Except for maybe Peter Jacobson. He really is the the
one that really leans into it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
I would say that Reggie Kathy is great too. Yeah,
he doesn't get to do much yet, but he's so
old and Cassidy. Cassidy's fucking awesome. I mean to have
Kathody be in an episode this much and have it
be that good and have him be that good.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Is definitely a standout, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Yeah. So I think we're at least like six or seven, right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
I'm comfortable with seven for this one, So I think
it's better than no.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
One's not doing the work, like Jacobson is going so
far over that he's airing into camp, but it's still fun.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
It's fun. Yeah, any idea how Maggie got in? I
wish I knew. I called every escort I'd sent. They
all swore they didn't know the girl that she came
with Anya Solar And Anya hasn't called me back. What
did an you look like? Nett tall Tan, We need

(01:08:50):
to talk to Anya. You guys don't have her? Oh man,
that just sucks. But like, okay, so like A six
was the Brenda Blevin episode that we did with Cleay
Devall and Mark Farrell persona and this is better than that.

(01:09:13):
So yeah, seven seven works? Uh, the Vicky and Baker
Connor pollow juvenile, which we did and who's the perfect
victim for a ninety pound tort purp That was a seven,
And I think it kind of is the same kind
of vein. It's good performances that are fun.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Yeah, Rifkin's really good. I think just kind of across
the board. This one's strong.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Yeah, Wise, nobody screws the pooch, even Pippa Black's like
somewhat distracting accent. Is not nearly as bad as some
that we've seen. Not nearly as bad. No, not Connie
Nielsen or Brenda blen No, not not even close. I
mean I just had like a fucking two minute supercut
of Brenda Blevin dialogue that we dropped into that episode
because it was so bad we had to put it

(01:09:53):
in there. So bad. It's like three different accents that
she's wavering between. Oh God, okay, So how proudblematic was this?
Because obviously there's problematic things. Emmy Warder is giving us
details about the amount of seamen in a sixteen year
old girl's stomach.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Kind of being twenty guys worth, the media.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Is twenty guys media and twenty guys. It could be
on either end of that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Yeah, but the minimum is still like the minimum is
teen or something, right, yeah, tea point eight, we're teen
point eight to fifty nine. Yeah. Anyway, so we've got that,
we've got the whole element of anyone coming to the
big city from Manitoba is going to get eaten up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
I feel like there's a better big city for to
go to. Why didn't she just go to Calgary? Man?
You know, she could get into the oil business there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
You know, well, do you really just want to be
boning roughnecks? Hey?

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
You know what those are roughnecks that are making a
good wage. You got great health coverage.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
You know, there's like I actually really love Calgary.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Sex work is dangerous wherever you go, but it's going
to be considerably less dangerous in a country that has
you know, nationalized health care right where you get good
access to all manner of statrics and kinnecological care. In
her case, I were going to stayed at home. You know,
you don't even have to leave the Prairie provinces. Yeah, yeah,
go to Saskatoon.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
You've got the element of having to fight the power.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Yeah, I mean, there's like a definitely allusion to this
is like Epstein before we all had Epstein brain right,
kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Yeah, But I mean he would have been a thing
that everyone in the writer's room would have known about
Epstein and his reputation. I mean I'd heard of his
sex plane, yeah, fucking years and years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
But it wasn't at the front of everybody's mind. I mean,
some of these other kind of high profile madams had been.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
With New York high society shit, it absolutely would have
been true. I mean, fucking Trump was hanging out with him, sure,
of course. Yeah, I mean multiple presidents and Prince Andrew,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, the entire upper management
of Deutsche Bank, YadA, YadA, YadA. Yeah, there's a ton
of fucked up shit in this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
There is a ton, but is it on screen problematic
stuff though? I mean, besides basically like what they do
to the sixteen year old Finn's comments about the poor assistant.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Super problematic fuck up and no one calls him out
on it. And then you've got Tomorrow as the violent
tempered cop who claims to respect women but can't give
his wife the autonomy to go through therapy, and I mean,
to be fair, I think at this point, hasn't he
found out that she cheated while she was on deployment
or something. I think that's what Chris is getting at there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
They're implying that, So are you saying that he's a
Puerto Rican stereotype.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
The savior complex? But doesn't really have the grounds to
do that because he's his father's son and his father
was an abusive dick and violent tempered instead of he's
violent tempered. But he claims to value women and to
respect them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
And all, yeah, he's a hothead, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
We have the obligatory Why are you making this life decision?
Did you when you were little? Did you hope this
was the life?

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
You're?

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Fuck you dude? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
I do like how Finn kind of shames him for
not having fun at strip clubs.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
I thought that's funny, and I think we both say
that as people who are like I.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Don't have that much fun of strip clubs either.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
I don't want to have that much fun of strip clubs.
I mean, Hong Kong is a different thing entirely. What
the fuck is that? But yeah, strip clubs, there are
a lot of douchey guys as the strip clubs generally,
I'm not like wild about them.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
It's a weird scene, but at the same time, I thought.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
I have had fun at a strip club in this case.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Did you find it to be problematic? On the scale
of SVU episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
There's like a lot really like almost every two or
three minutes, there's something that you're just like, yeah, Jesus Christ,
I mean, and there's that we've been conditioned by by
the show to view basically all sex that isn't like
in a monogamous relationship as this thing that is to
be looked down upon. And holy shit, do they spend

(01:13:46):
a lot of time objectifying women in a way that
is meant to make you feel bad.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Yeah, there's a lot of skin in this one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
There's a lot, a lot of skin, a lot. It's
really wild. Anyway, I think there's a lot of problematic
shit in this episode that is fun.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
Yeah, okay, okay, but I mean seven.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
We have to think about that old fuck ovenor dead
naked on his couch they put in our brain.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
I know they sure did. And they dressed up and
did his pants on backwards.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
Yeah, and they go close, close, tight, shot on his
crotch with his pants backwards, so we are absolutely forced
to think about his dick there, and.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
Again, man, we should talk about that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
Says that he was nice and quick.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
Okay, that that bumps it up a boy. Eight Do
we want to say? Eight?

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
I mean there's so much it's I mean, it's not hooked,
it's not that bad. It's it's pretty pervasive throughout this episode.
I think it's an eight.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
What else do we have?

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
His ten?

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
We had? We had okay, the page Turco dianeal one.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Yeah, ridicule episodes, fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
That's such a good one. Okay, I like eight. Eight works.
It works for me. And maybe I'm just biased because
it's so weird to evaluate, like act one, right, which
is what we're doing here, or maybe acts one and
two of his five act structure, which I think it
might be.

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
Well, I mean they're all like four act with the
cold open. Yeah, and then next week we've got a
fucking I don't know, forty act weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
God, it's so long. It's so fucking long.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
With a prologue and the prologue that we just watched.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
It would you think it's a nine? I mean, for problematic?
Is it a nine? Do we have a nine?

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Let's let's leave it at eight. I think eight's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
But we've never done a nine before. Ridicule was a ten.
So eights for problematic have been the Stephen Bogartist Torquil
Campbell on Civilized that was highly problematic.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
This is this is that problematic? Yeah, we're right, we're
right at eight. I this is not worse than on civil.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Hunting Ground, which was really problematic. That was the serial killer,
Long Island serial Killer. So okay, eight works. Okay, So
depth and breadth of lives are ruined. And this is
potentially hard to judge because we have one victim who's dead,
but we have a lot of people's lives that are
kind of maybe thrown into turmoil by this.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
There are a lot more than one victim's dead. Winnipeg girl,
the Winnipeg.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
I'm talking about the Winnipeger. Yeah, but then the okay,
the the I guess, I guess the governor, Issa side, Yeah, Carissa, Yeah,
you're a good boyt Carissa the governor, Yeah, Carissa the Governor,
the Winnipeggar. Yeah, a lot of fucking like Kadaffi, you know,
A lot of people's a lot of people's careers are
are thrown into turmoil through this one.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
And we've got the big like happening to a main
cast member for the entire run of the show thus far. Yeah,
there are only three of them on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
On the role guy, this guy was principal cast in
season one of Law and Orders.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
He's been in this universe since nineteen ninety, Yes, he
sure has. And he wakes up with a dead escort
in his bed and he clearly does not know how
it got there. Yeah, the scale is so personal in
this one, despite the amount of their Three dead people
are a lot of dead people still. Yeah, for an
episode of SPU, that's not that unusual. But one of
them is in Craigan's bed and he is therefore implicated

(01:16:53):
in her murder.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
He sure is, Yeah, he sure is.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
And then she was very clearly murdered. Her throat is
clear across.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
I kind of feel like, like makeup didn't do a
great job with that road slit. It didn't look that real, right.
They could have, you know, gashed it more. They could
have had some entrails filling out. I don't know, I
thought of.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
The effects were not great there, but yeah, whatever practical
effects more.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
Now, you're right, You're absolutely right. Also, they had been
warned by uh fucking Ron Rifkin about staying away from
this case and kind of right before this happens.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
But warned, and we haven't seen them continue to pursue
the case. Really no, no, from that scene. The only
thing we have seen is Carissa walking up tomorrow after
work outside of the police station and then Craig it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
So we almost never have this. We never have a
dick Wolf where there's just a principal cast member is
thrown into flux like this and we don't know what's happening.
So you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
I mean, this isn't just like, oh I might get
a divorce. No, yes, what the fuck? I have to
beat a murder rat?

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
You sure do? Yeah? And a what happened? Why is
there a murdered woman in my bed?

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
And he clearly has no memory of anything.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Did I do it? Is the next question?

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Yeah? Did I fall off the wagon?

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Yeah, which we'll find out. Yeah, it's a lot, It's
definitely a lot. What else do we have? We have
a we have a war going on between the well,
there's definitely something going on in the world of escorts
in New York City.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
Yeah, clearly that and all of the comely escorts who
are just trying to go about their daily business are
caught in the crosshirs.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
Seriously, Now, all of them were on camera, right, you know,
they might have dodged the security camp, but they didn't
dodge the SD card that was turned into SVU the
eight hours of footage, and neither did all of the
you know, high price celebrities. Like everybody knows which Winnipeg
Jets goalie was at that party. People are going to
be talking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
We've also got the clear dissolution of Tomorrow's marriage, which
I don't give a fuck about, an that is like
a factor.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
We've got that poor fucking actress who had very few
roles just get just get humiliated on screen by Iced
Tea who normally.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
I feel like that we don't normally have.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
No normally we do. You think of Finn as being
like one of the kind of more stand up guys
in the whole universe. Yeah, not here, No, not at all. Okay, yeah,
you're talking me into it. I think because of the
immediacy of the Craig and the insane ending I think
it's a ten because we don't have these situations ever,
You're right, and Craigan's as stand up as any of

(01:19:20):
them are. Yeah, I mean, he's just the.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
Good captain who doesn't fuck up and it stands by
his unit. But if they're about to go overboard on something,
he's gonna fucking make sure they don't.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
I mean, and it being a season finale means that
you have to wait, you have to wait months, huh.
I mean I would say that in some ways, it
kind of does remind me of an episode where we
gave a nine that was to juvenile, the Becky and
Baker episode where that was a nine. Now the tens
that we've given out for that category were Hooked, which
is a different scale.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
There's an AIDS outbreak in New York because of that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Yeah, and then also Hunting Ground, which is the serial
killer episode, and.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
This get I don't think it's quite there, but but
it's at nine at least.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
Okay, So it's interesting because of course we've never had
principal cast be involved. Yeah, in the Lives ruined like this, right.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
Well, except for I mean there's the obvious, like in
Hunting Ground, they are involved. Borrow has just killed somebody,
and Live is going to have some presumably have some
PTSD shit because she was held cap it for a bit.
But I guess this isn't as immediate and dire as Yeah,
Kragan's Kragan's here also hunting ground.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
We gave it a ten because of the you know,
dozens of bodies that were buried on that beach on
Long Island.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
Not there were watched sixteen victims, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
Yeah, and not I mean, and that's like where it
got there. It wasn't necessarily because of of Liv's situation. Yeah,
this is definitely like gets there with Craigan. His life
is really going down the toilet and it's going to
be going down the toilet for spoiler alert about the
next hour and twenty minutes minutes. Yeah, about the next
hour and twenty minutes is going down the toilet.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
And so okay, I think it's probably a ten. I
think it's kind I think I mean both that it
gets resolved because everyone's seen episodes with Greigan after this,
But from where this episode leaves off, it is it
is a ten.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
So this one gets to really a really high mark then, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
It is, but this is like a Pantheon episode.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
It's a good one. It's a really good one, and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
Especially this part. This part is probably I haven't seen
the second and third parts, but this part is clearly
the episode that it's one of those episodes that everybody
who's seen it remembers of st You.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Can confuse it with the part one of the next part,
because you know, it's kind of starts where this one ended,
where Craig is waking up with the Carisa in his bed,
and yeah, it's it's shocking, and there's a few other
things that are shocking like that in SVU. So right now,
this is the second highest rated episode that we've seen,
and I kind of I get it. This is a
Pantheon episode. This is probably going to go down as

(01:21:49):
the best Tomorrow episode that we see, if I had
to guess, I don't know. We'll figure that out later.
But it comes in at eight and a quarter eight
point twenty five tracks.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
So it's just barely better than Ridicule. Wasn't Ridicule at.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
Yeah, barely better than Ridicule and still substantially worse, I
mean not worse, but under Hooked, which is.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Still almost a full isn't it almost at.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
It's a full point under Hooked. I mean it Hooked
was outstanding. I highly recommend Hooked watch that one. But
this one was really good. This one was good. It
was fun. It ends in a way that really makes
you want to get into the next one.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
Yeah, and yeah, you really want to watch the next episode,
like I've held off for two weeks now basically, yeah,
from watching the next part because I don't want to
have to watch It's so long that I don't want
to have to watch it more than twice, and I
don't really have the time.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
Yeah, I would definitely plan ahead, maybe take your notes
over several watchings, or at least, like, don't try to
don't try to take notes all at once.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
At least I don't have the recap.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
Yeah, it's gonna be fun. It might be a little
long next week. It's already been a little long this week.
Let's let's get out of here. We don't need to
roll one, thankfully for next.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Week, because everyone knows where this is going.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
I know where we're going. We are going to season fourteen,
episode one slash episode two. It's called Lost Reputation, and guys,
it's order pizza before you watch it, because I started
watching it thinking it was going to be there was like, oh,
it's two different episodes. We'll just watch episode one and
then I'll come back and watch the episode two later. No,
it's just the way Hulu has it is. They put

(01:23:18):
it all together as one and that's how it was aired.
So it's an hour and a half long. Yeah, and
it feels like it sometimes, So it's a long episode.

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
Since we're not having Bill and Ted welcome us into
whatever the randomizers chosen from us. Guess we can reiterate
the whole rate and review business. Yeah, find us on
iTunes or Apple Podcasts, I guess is what it is now.
Find us there, rate and review us, you know, follow
the social media's Yahoo, Spotify, wherever you know. There are
other places wherever you listen, you can probably rate and

(01:23:48):
review us. Yeah. Munch My Benson is our handle on
Instagram and Twitter. We have a subreddit that you can
also just listen to the episodes through the subreddit if
you want. Nice that's just our backslash munch my Bension. Yeah.
I don't know. We're all over everything.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
We sometimes we're actually good about posting regularly too. We're
trying to do better.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
I mean, I get everything posted. I I was like
a week behind on Instagram. But we're also you can
tweet at us and we will answer. I get push
notifications for everything that happens on Twitter. Absolutely definitely tweet
at us. We will answer, and we have an email
if you need to email us or something. That's munch
My Benson at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
Yeah, let's call it there, because I've got a lot
of work to do to put together fucking recap for
this next one.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
And I've got to find a way to take notes
on a giant episode. You're gonna have to working ninety
hours a week.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Yeah, three hours of television. I would say, maybe take
notes as you go the first time.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
Just watch it going to Yeah, I'm definitely going to. Yeah,
I'm probably gonna have to do it now. Just start watching.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
It's I'm just gonna give you a warning, guys. It's
different than watching a regular SVU because it's it's an
hour and a half and settle in, Buckle up, it's
not like watching TV.

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
Pour a drink and bring the bottle big time.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
I'll talk to you next week, Josh, Yes, monchar Benson,
Please liberally. At least that makes me feel better. I'd

(01:26:29):
hate to think hers was the last face he saw
before he checked out.

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31 - It's a Bad Way to Wake Up If You're a Recovering Alcoholic (S13E23 Rhodium Nights)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}31 - It's a Bad Way to Wake Up If You're a Recovering Alcoholic (S13E23 Rhodium Nights)