October 25, 2025 • 36 mins
“A shocking family murder in Troy, Illinois. When Neil Howard dialed 911, no one imagined the true horror waiting in his mother’s basement.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
My mom.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
My mom walked around.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Respond your mom's not responding.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
Does she need an ambulance?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
They were very very.
Speaker 5 (00:15):
Does she need an ambulance?
Speaker 6 (00:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (00:20):
What began as a routine emergency.
Speaker 8 (00:22):
Call police department.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He said, she's got blood coming out of her mouth.
Speaker 8 (00:28):
God not, he said, said call her name. I won't
try to wake her up.
Speaker 7 (00:34):
Led to one of the most brutal domestic crimes this
country has ever seen.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
In a small town like this, you really don't hear
something like that so close together.
Speaker 9 (00:43):
I'm considering maybe.
Speaker 10 (00:46):
Moving because I want her to have the justice she deserves.
We're very hurt, were broken. It was very sudden. It
took us all as a shot. Guy was we.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Haven't written down. We're going to try to start nothing
in my work, and I use my ri silent. What
I have to do with him? You're all to get
my will.
Speaker 7 (01:09):
Neil A. Howard might not be a household name like
other famous killers, but in the quiet town of Troy, Illinois,
his actions tore through the community like a nightmare come
to life.
Speaker 8 (01:22):
And did the covers. There was blood, So I thought,
maybe she just matter, hope I touch her.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
She still want then look she had like a.
Speaker 8 (01:29):
Puny cop at her back. That's okay, I but she
still warm to touch, so just trusted. I almost wonder
if if he.
Speaker 11 (01:39):
Didn't do it and then called us with the Story's
what I'm thinking, because.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
He right here is still making it seem like he's
going back and forth with her, because that's the reason
why we.
Speaker 8 (01:47):
Didn't meet it.
Speaker 7 (01:48):
Neil was born around the year nineteen seventy eight, and
while most of his early life stayed out of the
public eye, the parts that have come out paint a
disturbing picture. Wasn't just your everyday guy. He was a
man carrying a lot of anger, with a violent past,
deep family drama, and emotional baggage he never unpacked. You'll
(02:10):
hear exactly what we mean in these interviews from people
who knew him best, his own girlfriend and his sister.
Speaker 12 (02:18):
I was normal, all right, who wet friend of mine?
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Normal?
Speaker 12 (02:24):
Al Right?
Speaker 13 (02:25):
Well we'll discuss that in a little bit, okay, sir, that.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
They haven't a really spot when it relates.
Speaker 10 (02:35):
So it's a very good.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Okay, that's Terry dates. I know Terry beats.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, my hedda last night with another an so okay, I.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Don't know are you sure?
Speaker 14 (02:59):
Yeah, I don't know the man.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Say, did you ever see the man before?
Speaker 12 (03:03):
No?
Speaker 7 (03:04):
This was like a I don't know if it was
like a tender meeting.
Speaker 10 (03:08):
Okay, I don't know who the man was or the
guy's name.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I just know that I had a date last night.
Speaker 7 (03:18):
I don't know, like I said that man right.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
There, there's a lot of child here. I was here
when your dad passed, oh my step Yeah, yeah he
passed here, right he did. Okay, I was here when
that happened.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Since then, my mom has been a train ride.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So how long were they married?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
But you know, she really just kind of and lately.
I mean, my brother is no angel, he's no angel.
But and I don't know what you know the story maybe,
but my mom has been talking to a lot of
different men on based on dating apps, and she's just
(04:14):
been out there. I won't even let my kids come
over here anymore because she's.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Just been so.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Out of her mind.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I mean she's she's drinking. I mean, she she's gone
to work drunk a couple of times.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
He talks about it. Troy Family Restaurant.
Speaker 12 (04:32):
Oh, shoot, you putting it together?
Speaker 15 (04:35):
Who she is?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yes? I just date there on Sunday.
Speaker 7 (04:40):
Yeah, and let's not sugarcoat it. Neil was a total deadbeat.
He was a grown man living in his mom's basement.
While his mother, Norma Jay Carricker, was out living her
life and being a loved figure in their town, Neil
stayed holed up downstairs. Norma was in her sixty she
(05:00):
had four kids and was the widow of Tom Carricker,
the former mayor of Troy. People adored her. She was
the kind of mom who never stopped caring, even for
a son like Neil.
Speaker 10 (05:12):
She was a very loving, bright, kind soul. She would
do anything for a friends and family.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
Now, Neil's violent behavior wasn't anything new. In fact, it
goes way back. In the year two thousand and five.
He was arrested in connection with his father's death. George W.
Howard had been shot and killed in Dallas County, Texas.
Neil was held for the crime, but later the grand
jury decided not to charge him and the case was dropped. Still,
(05:42):
the fact that he was even suspected of killing his
own dad raised a lot of eyebrows, and instead of
that being a turning point, it was only the beginning
of a pattern that got worse and worse. In the
years two thousand and two thousand and one, he was
charged with demanstic battery in not just one, but two
(06:02):
different counties in Illinois. Then in two thousand and four,
he was convicted of driving under the influence. By two
thousand and seven, he had already violated his probation. In
two thousand and eight, and again in twenty sixteen, he
was slapped with more domestic violence charges. Things hit a
(06:23):
new low in twenty eleven, when a court issued an
order of protection because Neil had reportedly threatened his own kids, and,
perhaps most chilling of all, just one year before the murder,
Neil was still being charged with domestic battery. As you
can see, the warning signs were flashing bright red.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Instead of so good, mat you say your omama, somebody
better come over here before that happening. Well, but you
so good making you want to slap your mom, I'm
gonna kill your MoMA.
Speaker 7 (07:08):
Little did anyone know that Neil was dead serious when
he said that? And this nine one one call says
it all.
Speaker 16 (07:16):
One of my mom and her.
Speaker 17 (07:19):
Mom walked through.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
My mom responds, Your mom's not responding, Does she need
an ambulance.
Speaker 17 (07:25):
Do you want the very very bad?
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Does she need an ambulance?
Speaker 17 (07:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 13 (07:34):
I am here the dogs at the door.
Speaker 10 (07:40):
All right, So are you wanting a welfare checkdown on her?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Then?
Speaker 9 (07:44):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
What is your name?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Sir?
Speaker 9 (07:45):
Mother?
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Ms New and what's your last name?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Neil hour are?
Speaker 9 (07:52):
Okay?
Speaker 10 (07:53):
What is what is your mom's name?
Speaker 8 (07:55):
No? One?
Speaker 7 (07:57):
And she's your mother's up?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
You're bringing 'em out.
Speaker 18 (08:01):
I think they didn't think you're some skits or oh
you said.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Her name is Norman, yeah, okay.
Speaker 13 (08:10):
And you said she's inside with who was a doll?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (08:15):
Wait, okay?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And she works like three jobs.
Speaker 8 (08:20):
This is the way I was right. So I shrews
against you.
Speaker 19 (08:23):
They go the winder us because she's table boat in
the winder room. I want to see nothing. I guess
it's that date on the conversion on the tenders or not.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I'm afraid of go in that room.
Speaker 8 (08:38):
I heard the dog winding in that room.
Speaker 13 (08:51):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (08:51):
I heard a guy neighbor had plays like three four times.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Alright, alright, fine, that's okay, send up for me, real quick,
send it for me.
Speaker 13 (09:08):
Where did I go?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Spin around?
Speaker 8 (09:11):
Listen?
Speaker 13 (09:11):
That's right now let's see vana tank. Listen, you're just
being attained. Brother, Just hold on, stop, hold on, I.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Know, stop moving your stop breathing, Come on, anything else
aoust to have your pockets?
Speaker 13 (09:43):
Give me welcome here, walk sit down, Sit down, sit down.
Somebody I'm putting on my car with the look welcome me,
welcome me. Good?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Are other units to clean the houses?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Looks like I'm gonna start clearing you guys.
Speaker 8 (10:09):
I got nothing, you got it.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I'm gonna clear.
Speaker 13 (10:15):
He's requesting more units. He believes this might be a homicide.
I'm gonna start clearing this house and gonna work my
way outside.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
You guys are completely digit does and everything.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
End twenty dree Troy Police.
Speaker 17 (10:30):
There's anyone in the house, make your presence known, Troy Police,
Troy Police, Troy Police, Troy Police, Troy Police.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
If you're in your major presence known. Play I'm in
the back of the house. No, I'm clearing that. We
don't know if there was someone else, if it was him,
this is all clear so far.
Speaker 13 (11:53):
The dude said that he heard the back door open
and somebody went out, but he never saw him. He's
also mad intoxicated, so I don't know if it's him.
He's the taint in my vehicle. Right now, Alex is
doing CPR until med gets here.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I have not cleared the base. M Troy Police.
Speaker 8 (12:09):
Troit Belie.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
If you're in here, make your presence known. No, he
just said he heard the back door opense. So here's
the thing.
Speaker 13 (12:18):
When the front no, he walked out Medicine the driveway
showed up. Super intoxicated started explaining how his mom would
invite random and over to have sex with them and
they would leave off of tender.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So then he was like, came in, do you live here? Yeah,
he goes, I heard the back door.
Speaker 13 (12:34):
Open and close, and then he goes, she turned the
country music up, country music up way loud.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
He said, I knocked on the door. She said no, no, no,
you don't have to leave.
Speaker 13 (12:45):
And that's the last he heard from her, Like earlier
in the night.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
So when we showed up, he asked, let's go inside.
Alex asked him, you go see if you can get it.
Speaker 13 (12:54):
He or come talk to us, because he was making
it seem like she was fine, just didn't want to
talk to him. And he comes outside and says, she's
in there, laying down. She's bleeding from her mouth.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
So we went in.
Speaker 13 (13:06):
I tell him to sit down because he's starting to
get agitated.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
He's like, why are you guys coming to me like that?
Speaker 13 (13:11):
He realizes obviously something has happened to her, whether she's
been choked or strangle or what.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
But she's bleeding. So he's he's the tang in my car.
Speaker 13 (13:22):
Guy maybe, but on the all chance he's telling the truth.
Have a dog come out. If they start to lead
us somewhere, we might have something. If they say there's
nothing in the full of shit that she.
Speaker 18 (13:33):
Was still faintly inside, alive and fine, fine, yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Then she had a crap around.
Speaker 8 (13:40):
I don't know, but the flood of the power. Let's listen.
Cords still on her neck when you yeah, so I
took it off in a charchyr.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
She's warmed.
Speaker 8 (13:47):
I'll tell you that's.
Speaker 13 (13:49):
The house is cleared right now, the garage is cleared.
I don't want to go on there. No, I'll double check.
Let me check underneath the stuck You're right, no, why not?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I'm I'm sober up.
Speaker 8 (14:05):
This is BS man.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
I'm hurt. What's what while you hurt?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I'm hurt.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You got me behind my back like, that's how it
has to go. We're working in about the X. What
do you mean for what? What? What am I if
I have a crime? You're just right now being the table. Yes,
I don't.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
I know how this works.
Speaker 19 (14:22):
Man, I'll call my family, Walrior man, you can call
when you get a chance.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Okay, is that right?
Speaker 13 (14:28):
Man?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
It's hurt. You didn't see who right out of your house.
Speaker 17 (14:34):
I hadn't.
Speaker 8 (14:34):
I'm not supposed to go up to stay you see.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Here's a beat like I gotta sit there when you
be quiet.
Speaker 8 (14:46):
That's how we raised.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Okay, I'm just asked raised a little different then I guess. Okay,
this is BS.
Speaker 8 (14:52):
You guys got me hemmed up.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
You're not hammed up. You're just being.
Speaker 8 (14:57):
You guys.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Okay, Well, I'm just checking see if you're a.
Speaker 7 (15:02):
In the next clips, you'll see how Neil's outbursts kept escalating,
clear signs that he knew far more than he was
letting on.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Crazy man, I can't believe you guys are doing it.
Speaker 8 (15:14):
As you said. Your only detention. You're not under arrest.
Speaker 20 (15:18):
All wrong.
Speaker 9 (15:20):
You're not gonna go anywhere now you're single.
Speaker 7 (15:24):
Okay, so they're gonna check.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
On you to let them do their job well than
I being.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
He told for sir, because we have a serious situation
going on.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Well I told you what was go on?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Look at the fall, mean guys over look at him.
Speaker 9 (15:37):
We'll handle it.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
No, right, well, what.
Speaker 12 (15:46):
Wrong?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Hey?
Speaker 9 (15:48):
Let them do the job?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Man A right your job.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
I'm gonna get you.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
They told me. Man to me any medical ever? Bang? Okay,
to put your feet.
Speaker 8 (16:04):
In the card.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
No, that's back down the.
Speaker 21 (16:09):
Doing there in the car?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Man, No, jac bore you hog going to hear me.
You're gonna sit down. You believed me?
Speaker 15 (16:19):
You marvas dad for.
Speaker 13 (16:32):
Send me.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
What's going on?
Speaker 17 (16:36):
Look at her?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Che mean guys over look at her? Pall so down
right there? Hey chill out? Yeah, I'm telling you to
chill out.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
What what you're doing? This all wrong?
Speaker 3 (16:49):
No, I'm not flip.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Do what job?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
They're going to check on you?
Speaker 17 (16:57):
Me erid to me?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Are you declining medical?
Speaker 8 (17:04):
The other climbing?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Ever? Okay, then put your feet in the car. He's like,
why are you.
Speaker 8 (17:14):
Why are you.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
To hear me? You're gonna sit down.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
You can't believe you hurt me?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Ain't nobody hurt you? Oh? This lost closer to you? Yeah, huh. Yeah,
he's freaking out. Brother. We're gonna go back to the
police department. Okay, you know you're just being to take.
Speaker 13 (17:39):
Okay, well we'll get you back there and look at them. Okay,
one nine, why die mother? Hold on one second, Hold
on one second, hold on one second.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
Expect I will listen round. I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Try one h.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I'll suppose one.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Job.
Speaker 13 (18:20):
I'll be transporting the mail back to posts beginning my
ledge three seven eight oh seven point four three seven
eight o seven point four car zero seven and not.
Speaker 8 (18:29):
Come up here.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
You a London.
Speaker 8 (18:37):
Und damn me.
Speaker 16 (18:45):
She's lead ship.
Speaker 13 (18:51):
Well wait, wait, t hord, why don't you calm down.
You're not going to tell you're going to the police department.
Speaker 11 (19:06):
Okay, building, he's in the back. Now we're at this point.
We're assuming that the guy that we have in custody
who is here is probably our guy. We don't have
anything else to go on like anybody else ran that
we can. There's no disturbance in the grass or anything
like that.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
So uh but if he pipes up with something that through, yeah,
so this stop sign here, if you go right, there's
a subdivision right behind here, and it's pretty dark back there.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
When Neil arrived at the station, his behavior gave officers
even more reason to suspect he was behind the cold
blooded murder.
Speaker 19 (20:03):
I want a fucking three hours, oh mine.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
That team need works.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Power.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
Yeah you know what?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
These yards are all wrong? Okay you know, Okay, that's
what we're here to find out.
Speaker 8 (20:34):
Okay, Well we'll get you inside. I'll get him.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Sure, give me. It's a bullshit man, s.
Speaker 12 (20:44):
Hurt.
Speaker 8 (20:46):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Sh s.
Speaker 8 (20:49):
Any type about that, brother Chase. If I'm allowed to
make it, buy, I gotta keep it and I gottah.
You look at my board, you see I take I'm sorry.
I gotta be busy with my mom than god is
(21:11):
can you stay up for me?
Speaker 7 (21:13):
At this point, it was clear to everyone Neil was
the prime suspect. The only real question left was whether
he would finally tell the truth or keep hiding behind
that mask of lies.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Hold the mind and had I got chuck it just
ye as far from my wrist. Yeah, I can't see it.
Speaker 8 (21:39):
I can get to call him home.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Trouble man.
Speaker 13 (21:41):
I want to know my mother.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
I'm flying bro home.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I know I.
Speaker 8 (21:48):
I don't want to Tram.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Man, I see a gurry come home.
Speaker 8 (21:57):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
You know he did stas guys to embarrassed the way.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
You're okay, but let me share any answers to you. True,
Sure you're okay?
Speaker 16 (22:10):
So, and I'm want to make sure you understand your rights? Okay,
you have the right to remain silent. Do you understand
that rights and anything you say can be used against
you in court or other proceedings. Do you understand you
have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice
before we ask you any questions and it has never
heard with you during questions?
Speaker 8 (22:29):
Do you understand.
Speaker 16 (22:31):
If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed
for you pre you have any costs before any questioning
if you wish.
Speaker 8 (22:37):
Do you understand?
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yes?
Speaker 16 (22:39):
But if there's one thing I want you to understand
about me, is that a lot of the questions that
I'm going to ask you, I already know the answers
to it.
Speaker 8 (22:48):
I just want to make sure that you're being honest
with you. Is that fair?
Speaker 15 (22:52):
That's what That's why I'm aware. I asked my sister
and I'm grund no reason why the steward will be
the same. When I'm wanting, I said, Lawyer, this is ridiculous,
and this.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Guy seems like a nice guy.
Speaker 8 (23:07):
Me, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And I am.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I said, he was gonna tell him what I told
them guys, LT night.
Speaker 16 (23:14):
And let me ask you something, and I am, I'm
a I'm a I'm a nice guy, and I'm an
honest guy.
Speaker 18 (23:25):
All I want is to do ask you questions, and
all I ask for is honesty back. And I can
tell you right now, I don't have any judgment toward
you in any way, shape or for me.
Speaker 8 (23:37):
That's that's not me.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
In fact, I like you.
Speaker 16 (23:40):
I think you're a good dude, and I think you're
putting a bad situation that made this difficult for you.
But what I'm concerned with is, again, I want to
make sure that there's no stomach don turned and I
want to know what kind of person you want.
Speaker 8 (23:57):
I want to make sure that.
Speaker 16 (23:58):
When I talk to you that you're giving me the
answers they are truthful one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
You know what I mean, Because when the powers that
be listen to our interview, they I want them to
I want to be able.
Speaker 16 (24:10):
To tell them, Hey, I talked to Neil. He's been
one hundred percent honest with me. It is what it
is versus Hey. You know, he gave me this and
then it changed to the bad, and then it changed this, and.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
So I guess my biggest con my biggest thing is
is consistency.
Speaker 8 (24:28):
I've told you everything you know, and I.
Speaker 16 (24:32):
Can't wait to get the results from the skin that
they lifted underneath her fingernails, because if there was any
kind of struggle whatsoever, anybody got scratched, it doesn't take
anything for DNA to show up underneath her fingernails. So,
you know, it's one of those things where if I
have the opportunity to speak to somebody and they can say, look,
(24:52):
here's the deal.
Speaker 8 (24:53):
We got to an argument, it got heeded and we
just should happened, and it.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Is what it is.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
I didn't mean for it to happen. If that's the
type of thing that happened, I.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Can, you know what, I can understand him.
Speaker 8 (25:09):
And we never guy said how don't even know she
passed until we got here. No, I had no idea
what happened. Let me ask you a couple of questions.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
What happened to your pants. Why did get all ready
needs your work pants?
Speaker 8 (25:24):
You see's paint and these did the pants? Said? You
put the gentlemen in the pocket and they end up
in your shooting. Okay, so you're saying change, No, you
can answer my old lady anything. How many times they
told me to throw these away? Well? Yeah, it looks
like they've about had all pretty comfortable. So if you're
saying that they've been like, they've been like that, man,
(25:47):
that's my girl. Well I have to ask you have
to understand them. I didn't even well, you have to
understand why I'm asking you. Right, I'm not accusing you.
I'm just asking you. And I'm not scratched.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You're not.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
So during the entire incident, did she scratch you at all?
Speaker 8 (26:07):
Oh? No?
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Like what is like when you guys were when you
talk with her at all?
Speaker 8 (26:12):
Like, did you guys ever get into a physical argument
or never? One time in my life? Yes? Not one
time with your mom. I'm never not one. Did she
ever mean well? No, no, I mean like in general
in general, like did you let me ask you? Never
in my life? My sister tell you anybody that knows
(26:33):
me and tell you, and I.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
Ain't never came to that, never once.
Speaker 8 (26:37):
She had never put her hands on them. Good Okay.
Speaker 7 (26:41):
Despite the officer giving him plenty of chances to come clean,
Neil just kept making excuses.
Speaker 8 (26:48):
Again.
Speaker 16 (26:48):
I have to reemphasize you reinitiate a conversation with me,
and I'm more than happy to stem out.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
But you and I'm happy to sit here and down here.
Speaker 9 (26:58):
Well, I can bullshit with you if you want me to,
but I want to make sure you understand your rights.
Speaker 8 (27:03):
I think about it.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I don't know what I'm doing. I have no idea
what's going on to figure out what happened in.
Speaker 8 (27:13):
So it was when we hitting over.
Speaker 14 (27:14):
With somebody in and Neil and I second to explain
what I was trying to tell you. You understand that
whenever there's a death, we work for the person that's deceased.
So we start at the highest level that anything could
be happening, and we look at every single person. My
job is to either prove you did it or.
Speaker 8 (27:37):
You didn't do it. He did it or he didn't
do it. They did it or they didn't do it.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
So why we kind of do that is is we
look at the first person that was.
Speaker 14 (27:44):
There, the last person to seeing the last person we're
talking to, and we do a lot of information work
on that. That's why we ask you questions over because
when you give us the answers and we go, we
go prove okay.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
So one of the things when somebody dies is what
we do.
Speaker 14 (27:55):
Pack DNA at the autopsy anybody that we believe could
have came in contact with there we also take DNA
from them. I have a search one to do the
bugle swabs of DNA in your and yourn And that's
why I'm gona I'm gonna open the can.
Speaker 8 (28:06):
I'm gonna give you the search works.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
You can see it.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
I'm gonna open the kit.
Speaker 8 (28:09):
In front of me.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I'm gonna ask you to do the bugle swallow yourself.
So I'm gonna shove my hands in your face.
Speaker 8 (28:13):
I'm gonna put it back in. Don't see it.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
So what you can tell she has correct So I
can't by looking. But when the pathologist does his thing
and the CRISTI does that, what they're gonna.
Speaker 8 (28:25):
Do is gonna look at uh. They're gonna they're gonna
do a sex sexual saft hit.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
They're going to scrape her fingernails, they're going.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
To swallow her body.
Speaker 14 (28:33):
It's going to show whoever touched her as DNA at
certain spots.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
That they take it.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
And some of some of those spots are gonna be
key areas of where injuries work and things.
Speaker 14 (28:44):
That we've seen that look suspicious on that should be
on a normal person to die for natural causes.
Speaker 8 (28:48):
Okay, so how we do this is we tea people's DNA.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
I get search ones that way, It's easier for me
to get search ones.
Speaker 20 (28:57):
How mom not check? They're on the steps? And my
mom and I texted my sister and I texted my
girlfriend who won't want to see my phone. And I said,
in case the emergency call you, why call you in
your own answer? And then I called them both and
(29:18):
then do you do you want to answer?
Speaker 16 (29:21):
No?
Speaker 8 (29:21):
And then I call him number one. I was, I
got nervous, hilary, eerie, eerie killing, and I got scared.
And then who you've seen the messages? And just to clarify,
you called battle way before you walk.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Into the room.
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Yeah, I need not have been in that room. I
got in that room. So what the hell was going on?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
What do I call it?
Speaker 8 (29:46):
Let me call you something old that. Okay, if I
old up picking me up the dump down as the X,
that's something that you would nothing. Man, You know, I
gotta give him a sister.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Where you want.
Speaker 8 (30:00):
This is going to ruin everything. Everybody think. I want
to let her down the slow and I don't want
to tell I'm that fault for no.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
I said she with her he was the east.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
So that's why we're making this into what we need
to have you around available for us. Okay, m So
at this point we have to have everybody around to
get help us.
Speaker 8 (30:23):
And I'd like to see my sister.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
You okay, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (30:30):
Leave?
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Yeah, can I leave? Your mother's deceased. You know the leerson.
Speaker 8 (30:36):
We know that saw her last that.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
We can talk to you.
Speaker 8 (30:38):
I ain't see her last night.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
You did too, I've seen her last night. You walked
into the ausers asked you to. You were the last
one there with her, so you're the only one we have.
Speaker 8 (30:49):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I didn't see her last night and tell he told
me to go in there, absolutely know that. But then
you spoke with her. You spoke with her and either
caught my sister and let me talk to her. You
just woke with her a fair.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Oh, I didn't steer.
Speaker 8 (31:04):
I told you.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
I know you said you talked to her at eight thirty.
We're not accusing you of anything. You gotta understand you're
the last person that her when the officer showed up
and you called to have her checked on right home.
We're not going in there you go in. They thought
you guys are rowing in. They said, go get all
in and tell me who you are, you and how
you're going.
Speaker 8 (31:22):
Nothing, no, no, exactly what the officer spoke.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
That's why they asked you to go. Okay, go he
don't settle down.
Speaker 8 (31:28):
I don't blame you for being upset. I don't.
Speaker 19 (31:32):
No, I want to see I got them talk to
my sister right now, or anyone telling me, No, you're
not you even know you're not going.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
We're going in, but we're not a genius and you
last time won the star. I go just whatever that
guy was last one it saw and we had that
written down. We're gonna try to check out. Well, there's
nothing in my word day and then I didn't use
my writing. Roommate, silent, what's that got to do with it?
Speaker 8 (31:56):
What are they gonna do with me?
Speaker 12 (31:57):
And you're holding me against my will, because for all
we know, he's you're responsible for us.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
We don't trying to prove this.
Speaker 8 (32:05):
Oh no.
Speaker 7 (32:07):
It was strange how desperate Neil was to talk to
his sister, almost as if he was scrambling to get
his story straight before the truth caught up with him.
But this wasn't the first time he clung to his
sister and played the victim. In fact, just hours before
the murder, he had bombarded her with texts and missed calls,
(32:27):
clear red flags that something was seriously wrong.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
I told you that he did play a finger at me,
and you went, I aint onegins you like that? That
what you before?
Speaker 21 (32:37):
I raise my voter don't mean nothing and say only
why do a thing?
Speaker 8 (32:45):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (32:46):
At this point they knew he was the killer. All
they wanted now was to hear the devil confess with
his own lips.
Speaker 12 (32:55):
You you ain't doing told you're in the wrong room,
perspect If you're any talk, you're gonna be finishing the
only time.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
You're the only wink we have to anything that occurred
the last night. You're the only thing we have to
your mom, her phone, the messages, the people.
Speaker 8 (33:13):
That were there. You're our only link Why would.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
I let you lead and give to your mom a disjusice?
Why not having the only person that can help us?
You're the only singing. What else you want?
Speaker 21 (33:25):
I don't know yet because I've not been back out
there with the crime sy anyway, I don't know what
else is out there.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
That's why I'm asking you. You are my only like.
Speaker 8 (33:33):
So if you let's let's roll and reverse the roles.
Why would be right up the street.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
I need somebody need to talk to you.
Speaker 8 (33:40):
Why a lawyer right now?
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Okayle that I'm going to.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Be dead, explained to you, that's what you want as
your lawyer, I'm gonna be done, explained what I'm trying
to do.
Speaker 8 (33:48):
I'm just trying to help you. I told you them
for making gong her phone.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
And I have no ability to look at that while
I'm here with you. But now, if you're not hold
me against my will? Now you said you want a lawyer,
I can't even talk.
Speaker 8 (34:00):
To you, and you're gonna hold me.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Slementary asking are you asking for?
Speaker 8 (34:05):
Are you gonna hold me? Are you asking? Are you
gonna hold me?
Speaker 4 (34:08):
You just told me you're gonna hold me.
Speaker 21 (34:10):
I've got gonna let you know we're not me because
you are my only link to her, and I'm not
gonna go try after you let me talk call my sister,
and you said, I'm I told you I want to
go call your sister and I need to talk.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
That's why I asked for them. And I gave everything,
everything that I know to you provoluntarily.
Speaker 8 (34:28):
And I knew I should have said that. The right's
remain time that we have.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Double if you want to help your mind, I'm trying
something on you. Everything time.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
Look at the time for a look at our phone.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
You know, let's be very clear right now. Okay, do
you want a lawyer or do you want to talk
to us?
Speaker 8 (34:45):
I want to talk to my sister.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
I think, well, amazed me, I gotta call her st.
Speaker 8 (34:57):
So will you allow us to go call her? They
come back and talk to you. I want to talk
to her. I just asked you a question. I want
to talk to her. I want I want, well, I
need to talk to her on the cell phone myself.
Speaker 7 (35:10):
And that you're doing out And for the next three hours,
Neil just sat there in that cold interrogation room, silent, stubborn,
pretending to nap like nothing happened. He never confessed, not
a single word.
Speaker 9 (35:28):
Right right, all right, Neil beating a lash drink of
water for head out right, I'll put that cut back
on your hand. So you're gonna ask about the phone number, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (35:43):
I'll get it. Let's be in the car. Okay, okay,
all right, right right, go back towards.
Speaker 7 (35:57):
But the truth didn't need his permission to come out.
DNA scraped from under Norma's finger nails told the real story.
It was a perfect match to Neil, and that was
all the jury needed. Neil A. Howard was found guilty
of murdering his own mother and was sentenced to thirty
years behind bars. To this day, the town of Troy,
(36:20):
Illinois still feels the weight of that tragedy, a small,
tight knit community shaken by a crime so personal, so preventable,
that it left more questions than answers. The red flags
were everywhere. So now we turn it over to you.
Do you think this could have been stopped? Was justice
really served? Or was it all just too late?
My mom.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
My mom walked around.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Respond your mom's not responding.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
Does she need an ambulance?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
They were very very.
Speaker 5 (00:15):
Does she need an ambulance?
Speaker 6 (00:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (00:20):
What began as a routine emergency.
Speaker 8 (00:22):
Call police department.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
He said, she's got blood coming out of her mouth.
Speaker 8 (00:28):
God not, he said, said call her name. I won't
try to wake her up.
Speaker 7 (00:34):
Led to one of the most brutal domestic crimes this
country has ever seen.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
In a small town like this, you really don't hear
something like that so close together.
Speaker 9 (00:43):
I'm considering maybe.
Speaker 10 (00:46):
Moving because I want her to have the justice she deserves.
We're very hurt, were broken. It was very sudden. It
took us all as a shot. Guy was we.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Haven't written down. We're going to try to start nothing
in my work, and I use my ri silent. What
I have to do with him? You're all to get
my will.
Speaker 7 (01:09):
Neil A. Howard might not be a household name like
other famous killers, but in the quiet town of Troy, Illinois,
his actions tore through the community like a nightmare come
to life.
Speaker 8 (01:22):
And did the covers. There was blood, So I thought,
maybe she just matter, hope I touch her.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
She still want then look she had like a.
Speaker 8 (01:29):
Puny cop at her back. That's okay, I but she
still warm to touch, so just trusted. I almost wonder
if if he.
Speaker 11 (01:39):
Didn't do it and then called us with the Story's
what I'm thinking, because.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
He right here is still making it seem like he's
going back and forth with her, because that's the reason
why we.
Speaker 8 (01:47):
Didn't meet it.
Speaker 7 (01:48):
Neil was born around the year nineteen seventy eight, and
while most of his early life stayed out of the
public eye, the parts that have come out paint a
disturbing picture. Wasn't just your everyday guy. He was a
man carrying a lot of anger, with a violent past,
deep family drama, and emotional baggage he never unpacked. You'll
(02:10):
hear exactly what we mean in these interviews from people
who knew him best, his own girlfriend and his sister.
Speaker 12 (02:18):
I was normal, all right, who wet friend of mine?
Speaker 6 (02:24):
Normal?
Speaker 12 (02:24):
Al Right?
Speaker 13 (02:25):
Well we'll discuss that in a little bit, okay, sir, that.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
They haven't a really spot when it relates.
Speaker 10 (02:35):
So it's a very good.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Okay, that's Terry dates. I know Terry beats.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, my hedda last night with another an so okay, I.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Don't know are you sure?
Speaker 14 (02:59):
Yeah, I don't know the man.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Say, did you ever see the man before?
Speaker 12 (03:03):
No?
Speaker 7 (03:04):
This was like a I don't know if it was
like a tender meeting.
Speaker 10 (03:08):
Okay, I don't know who the man was or the
guy's name.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I just know that I had a date last night.
Speaker 7 (03:18):
I don't know, like I said that man right.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
There, there's a lot of child here. I was here
when your dad passed, oh my step Yeah, yeah he
passed here, right he did. Okay, I was here when
that happened.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Since then, my mom has been a train ride.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So how long were they married?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
But you know, she really just kind of and lately.
I mean, my brother is no angel, he's no angel.
But and I don't know what you know the story maybe,
but my mom has been talking to a lot of
different men on based on dating apps, and she's just
(04:14):
been out there. I won't even let my kids come
over here anymore because she's.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Just been so.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Out of her mind.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I mean she's she's drinking. I mean, she she's gone
to work drunk a couple of times.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
He talks about it. Troy Family Restaurant.
Speaker 12 (04:32):
Oh, shoot, you putting it together?
Speaker 15 (04:35):
Who she is?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yes? I just date there on Sunday.
Speaker 7 (04:40):
Yeah, and let's not sugarcoat it. Neil was a total deadbeat.
He was a grown man living in his mom's basement.
While his mother, Norma Jay Carricker, was out living her
life and being a loved figure in their town, Neil
stayed holed up downstairs. Norma was in her sixty she
(05:00):
had four kids and was the widow of Tom Carricker,
the former mayor of Troy. People adored her. She was
the kind of mom who never stopped caring, even for
a son like Neil.
Speaker 10 (05:12):
She was a very loving, bright, kind soul. She would
do anything for a friends and family.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
Now, Neil's violent behavior wasn't anything new. In fact, it
goes way back. In the year two thousand and five.
He was arrested in connection with his father's death. George W.
Howard had been shot and killed in Dallas County, Texas.
Neil was held for the crime, but later the grand
jury decided not to charge him and the case was dropped. Still,
(05:42):
the fact that he was even suspected of killing his
own dad raised a lot of eyebrows, and instead of
that being a turning point, it was only the beginning
of a pattern that got worse and worse. In the
years two thousand and two thousand and one, he was
charged with demanstic battery in not just one, but two
(06:02):
different counties in Illinois. Then in two thousand and four,
he was convicted of driving under the influence. By two
thousand and seven, he had already violated his probation. In
two thousand and eight, and again in twenty sixteen, he
was slapped with more domestic violence charges. Things hit a
(06:23):
new low in twenty eleven, when a court issued an
order of protection because Neil had reportedly threatened his own kids, and,
perhaps most chilling of all, just one year before the murder,
Neil was still being charged with domestic battery. As you
can see, the warning signs were flashing bright red.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Instead of so good, mat you say your omama, somebody
better come over here before that happening. Well, but you
so good making you want to slap your mom, I'm
gonna kill your MoMA.
Speaker 7 (07:08):
Little did anyone know that Neil was dead serious when
he said that? And this nine one one call says
it all.
Speaker 16 (07:16):
One of my mom and her.
Speaker 17 (07:19):
Mom walked through.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
My mom responds, Your mom's not responding, Does she need
an ambulance.
Speaker 17 (07:25):
Do you want the very very bad?
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Does she need an ambulance?
Speaker 17 (07:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 13 (07:34):
I am here the dogs at the door.
Speaker 10 (07:40):
All right, So are you wanting a welfare checkdown on her?
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Then?
Speaker 9 (07:44):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (07:44):
What is your name?
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Sir?
Speaker 9 (07:45):
Mother?
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Ms New and what's your last name?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Neil hour are?
Speaker 9 (07:52):
Okay?
Speaker 10 (07:53):
What is what is your mom's name?
Speaker 8 (07:55):
No? One?
Speaker 7 (07:57):
And she's your mother's up?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
You're bringing 'em out.
Speaker 18 (08:01):
I think they didn't think you're some skits or oh
you said.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Her name is Norman, yeah, okay.
Speaker 13 (08:10):
And you said she's inside with who was a doll?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (08:15):
Wait, okay?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And she works like three jobs.
Speaker 8 (08:20):
This is the way I was right. So I shrews
against you.
Speaker 19 (08:23):
They go the winder us because she's table boat in
the winder room. I want to see nothing. I guess
it's that date on the conversion on the tenders or not.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I'm afraid of go in that room.
Speaker 8 (08:38):
I heard the dog winding in that room.
Speaker 13 (08:51):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (08:51):
I heard a guy neighbor had plays like three four times.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Alright, alright, fine, that's okay, send up for me, real quick,
send it for me.
Speaker 13 (09:08):
Where did I go?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Spin around?
Speaker 8 (09:11):
Listen?
Speaker 13 (09:11):
That's right now let's see vana tank. Listen, you're just
being attained. Brother, Just hold on, stop, hold on, I.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Know, stop moving your stop breathing, Come on, anything else
aoust to have your pockets?
Speaker 13 (09:43):
Give me welcome here, walk sit down, Sit down, sit down.
Somebody I'm putting on my car with the look welcome me,
welcome me. Good?
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Are other units to clean the houses?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Looks like I'm gonna start clearing you guys.
Speaker 8 (10:09):
I got nothing, you got it.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
I'm gonna clear.
Speaker 13 (10:15):
He's requesting more units. He believes this might be a homicide.
I'm gonna start clearing this house and gonna work my
way outside.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
You guys are completely digit does and everything.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
End twenty dree Troy Police.
Speaker 17 (10:30):
There's anyone in the house, make your presence known, Troy Police,
Troy Police, Troy Police, Troy Police, Troy Police.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
If you're in your major presence known. Play I'm in
the back of the house. No, I'm clearing that. We
don't know if there was someone else, if it was him,
this is all clear so far.
Speaker 13 (11:53):
The dude said that he heard the back door open
and somebody went out, but he never saw him. He's
also mad intoxicated, so I don't know if it's him.
He's the taint in my vehicle. Right now, Alex is
doing CPR until med gets here.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I have not cleared the base. M Troy Police.
Speaker 8 (12:09):
Troit Belie.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
If you're in here, make your presence known. No, he
just said he heard the back door opense. So here's
the thing.
Speaker 13 (12:18):
When the front no, he walked out Medicine the driveway
showed up. Super intoxicated started explaining how his mom would
invite random and over to have sex with them and
they would leave off of tender.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So then he was like, came in, do you live here? Yeah,
he goes, I heard the back door.
Speaker 13 (12:34):
Open and close, and then he goes, she turned the
country music up, country music up way loud.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
He said, I knocked on the door. She said no, no, no,
you don't have to leave.
Speaker 13 (12:45):
And that's the last he heard from her, Like earlier
in the night.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
So when we showed up, he asked, let's go inside.
Alex asked him, you go see if you can get it.
Speaker 13 (12:54):
He or come talk to us, because he was making
it seem like she was fine, just didn't want to
talk to him. And he comes outside and says, she's
in there, laying down. She's bleeding from her mouth.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
So we went in.
Speaker 13 (13:06):
I tell him to sit down because he's starting to
get agitated.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
He's like, why are you guys coming to me like that?
Speaker 13 (13:11):
He realizes obviously something has happened to her, whether she's
been choked or strangle or what.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
But she's bleeding. So he's he's the tang in my car.
Speaker 13 (13:22):
Guy maybe, but on the all chance he's telling the truth.
Have a dog come out. If they start to lead
us somewhere, we might have something. If they say there's
nothing in the full of shit that she.
Speaker 18 (13:33):
Was still faintly inside, alive and fine, fine, yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Then she had a crap around.
Speaker 8 (13:40):
I don't know, but the flood of the power. Let's listen.
Cords still on her neck when you yeah, so I
took it off in a charchyr.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
She's warmed.
Speaker 8 (13:47):
I'll tell you that's.
Speaker 13 (13:49):
The house is cleared right now, the garage is cleared.
I don't want to go on there. No, I'll double check.
Let me check underneath the stuck You're right, no, why not?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I'm I'm sober up.
Speaker 8 (14:05):
This is BS man.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
I'm hurt. What's what while you hurt?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I'm hurt.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You got me behind my back like, that's how it
has to go. We're working in about the X. What
do you mean for what? What? What am I if
I have a crime? You're just right now being the table. Yes,
I don't.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
I know how this works.
Speaker 19 (14:22):
Man, I'll call my family, Walrior man, you can call
when you get a chance.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Okay, is that right?
Speaker 13 (14:28):
Man?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
It's hurt. You didn't see who right out of your house.
Speaker 17 (14:34):
I hadn't.
Speaker 8 (14:34):
I'm not supposed to go up to stay you see.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Here's a beat like I gotta sit there when you
be quiet.
Speaker 8 (14:46):
That's how we raised.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Okay, I'm just asked raised a little different then I guess. Okay,
this is BS.
Speaker 8 (14:52):
You guys got me hemmed up.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
You're not hammed up. You're just being.
Speaker 8 (14:57):
You guys.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Okay, Well, I'm just checking see if you're a.
Speaker 7 (15:02):
In the next clips, you'll see how Neil's outbursts kept escalating,
clear signs that he knew far more than he was
letting on.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Crazy man, I can't believe you guys are doing it.
Speaker 8 (15:14):
As you said. Your only detention. You're not under arrest.
Speaker 20 (15:18):
All wrong.
Speaker 9 (15:20):
You're not gonna go anywhere now you're single.
Speaker 7 (15:24):
Okay, so they're gonna check.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
On you to let them do their job well than
I being.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
He told for sir, because we have a serious situation
going on.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Well I told you what was go on?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Look at the fall, mean guys over look at him.
Speaker 9 (15:37):
We'll handle it.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
No, right, well, what.
Speaker 12 (15:46):
Wrong?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Hey?
Speaker 9 (15:48):
Let them do the job?
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Man A right your job.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
I'm gonna get you.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
They told me. Man to me any medical ever? Bang? Okay,
to put your feet.
Speaker 8 (16:04):
In the card.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
No, that's back down the.
Speaker 21 (16:09):
Doing there in the car?
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Man, No, jac bore you hog going to hear me.
You're gonna sit down. You believed me?
Speaker 15 (16:19):
You marvas dad for.
Speaker 13 (16:32):
Send me.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
What's going on?
Speaker 17 (16:36):
Look at her?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Che mean guys over look at her? Pall so down
right there? Hey chill out? Yeah, I'm telling you to
chill out.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
What what you're doing? This all wrong?
Speaker 3 (16:49):
No, I'm not flip.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Do what job?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
They're going to check on you?
Speaker 17 (16:57):
Me erid to me?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Are you declining medical?
Speaker 8 (17:04):
The other climbing?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Ever? Okay, then put your feet in the car. He's like,
why are you.
Speaker 8 (17:14):
Why are you.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
To hear me? You're gonna sit down.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
You can't believe you hurt me?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Ain't nobody hurt you? Oh? This lost closer to you? Yeah, huh. Yeah,
he's freaking out. Brother. We're gonna go back to the
police department. Okay, you know you're just being to take.
Speaker 13 (17:39):
Okay, well we'll get you back there and look at them. Okay,
one nine, why die mother? Hold on one second, Hold
on one second, hold on one second.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
Expect I will listen round. I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Try one h.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
I'll suppose one.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Job.
Speaker 13 (18:20):
I'll be transporting the mail back to posts beginning my
ledge three seven eight oh seven point four three seven
eight o seven point four car zero seven and not.
Speaker 8 (18:29):
Come up here.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
You a London.
Speaker 8 (18:37):
Und damn me.
Speaker 16 (18:45):
She's lead ship.
Speaker 13 (18:51):
Well wait, wait, t hord, why don't you calm down.
You're not going to tell you're going to the police department.
Speaker 11 (19:06):
Okay, building, he's in the back. Now we're at this point.
We're assuming that the guy that we have in custody
who is here is probably our guy. We don't have
anything else to go on like anybody else ran that
we can. There's no disturbance in the grass or anything
like that.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
So uh but if he pipes up with something that through, yeah,
so this stop sign here, if you go right, there's
a subdivision right behind here, and it's pretty dark back there.
Speaker 7 (19:41):
When Neil arrived at the station, his behavior gave officers
even more reason to suspect he was behind the cold
blooded murder.
Speaker 19 (20:03):
I want a fucking three hours, oh mine.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
That team need works.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Power.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
Yeah you know what?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
These yards are all wrong? Okay you know, Okay, that's
what we're here to find out.
Speaker 8 (20:34):
Okay, Well we'll get you inside. I'll get him.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Sure, give me. It's a bullshit man, s.
Speaker 12 (20:44):
Hurt.
Speaker 8 (20:46):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Sh s.
Speaker 8 (20:49):
Any type about that, brother Chase. If I'm allowed to
make it, buy, I gotta keep it and I gottah.
You look at my board, you see I take I'm sorry.
I gotta be busy with my mom than god is
(21:11):
can you stay up for me?
Speaker 7 (21:13):
At this point, it was clear to everyone Neil was
the prime suspect. The only real question left was whether
he would finally tell the truth or keep hiding behind
that mask of lies.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Hold the mind and had I got chuck it just
ye as far from my wrist. Yeah, I can't see it.
Speaker 8 (21:39):
I can get to call him home.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Trouble man.
Speaker 13 (21:41):
I want to know my mother.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
I'm flying bro home.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I know I.
Speaker 8 (21:48):
I don't want to Tram.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Man, I see a gurry come home.
Speaker 8 (21:57):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
You know he did stas guys to embarrassed the way.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
You're okay, but let me share any answers to you. True,
Sure you're okay?
Speaker 16 (22:10):
So, and I'm want to make sure you understand your rights? Okay,
you have the right to remain silent. Do you understand
that rights and anything you say can be used against
you in court or other proceedings. Do you understand you
have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice
before we ask you any questions and it has never
heard with you during questions?
Speaker 8 (22:29):
Do you understand.
Speaker 16 (22:31):
If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed
for you pre you have any costs before any questioning
if you wish.
Speaker 8 (22:37):
Do you understand?
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Yes?
Speaker 16 (22:39):
But if there's one thing I want you to understand
about me, is that a lot of the questions that
I'm going to ask you, I already know the answers
to it.
Speaker 8 (22:48):
I just want to make sure that you're being honest
with you. Is that fair?
Speaker 15 (22:52):
That's what That's why I'm aware. I asked my sister
and I'm grund no reason why the steward will be
the same. When I'm wanting, I said, Lawyer, this is ridiculous,
and this.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Guy seems like a nice guy.
Speaker 8 (23:07):
Me, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And I am.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I said, he was gonna tell him what I told
them guys, LT night.
Speaker 16 (23:14):
And let me ask you something, and I am, I'm
a I'm a I'm a nice guy, and I'm an
honest guy.
Speaker 18 (23:25):
All I want is to do ask you questions, and
all I ask for is honesty back. And I can
tell you right now, I don't have any judgment toward
you in any way, shape or for me.
Speaker 8 (23:37):
That's that's not me.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
In fact, I like you.
Speaker 16 (23:40):
I think you're a good dude, and I think you're
putting a bad situation that made this difficult for you.
But what I'm concerned with is, again, I want to
make sure that there's no stomach don turned and I
want to know what kind of person you want.
Speaker 8 (23:57):
I want to make sure that.
Speaker 16 (23:58):
When I talk to you that you're giving me the
answers they are truthful one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
You know what I mean, Because when the powers that
be listen to our interview, they I want them to
I want to be able.
Speaker 16 (24:10):
To tell them, Hey, I talked to Neil. He's been
one hundred percent honest with me. It is what it
is versus Hey. You know, he gave me this and
then it changed to the bad, and then it changed this, and.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
So I guess my biggest con my biggest thing is
is consistency.
Speaker 8 (24:28):
I've told you everything you know, and I.
Speaker 16 (24:32):
Can't wait to get the results from the skin that
they lifted underneath her fingernails, because if there was any
kind of struggle whatsoever, anybody got scratched, it doesn't take
anything for DNA to show up underneath her fingernails. So,
you know, it's one of those things where if I
have the opportunity to speak to somebody and they can say, look,
(24:52):
here's the deal.
Speaker 8 (24:53):
We got to an argument, it got heeded and we
just should happened, and it.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Is what it is.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
I didn't mean for it to happen. If that's the
type of thing that happened, I.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Can, you know what, I can understand him.
Speaker 8 (25:09):
And we never guy said how don't even know she
passed until we got here. No, I had no idea
what happened. Let me ask you a couple of questions.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
What happened to your pants. Why did get all ready
needs your work pants?
Speaker 8 (25:24):
You see's paint and these did the pants? Said? You
put the gentlemen in the pocket and they end up
in your shooting. Okay, so you're saying change, No, you
can answer my old lady anything. How many times they
told me to throw these away? Well? Yeah, it looks
like they've about had all pretty comfortable. So if you're
saying that they've been like, they've been like that, man,
(25:47):
that's my girl. Well I have to ask you have
to understand them. I didn't even well, you have to
understand why I'm asking you. Right, I'm not accusing you.
I'm just asking you. And I'm not scratched.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You're not.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
So during the entire incident, did she scratch you at all?
Speaker 8 (26:07):
Oh? No?
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Like what is like when you guys were when you
talk with her at all?
Speaker 8 (26:12):
Like, did you guys ever get into a physical argument
or never? One time in my life? Yes? Not one
time with your mom. I'm never not one. Did she
ever mean well? No, no, I mean like in general
in general, like did you let me ask you? Never
in my life? My sister tell you anybody that knows
(26:33):
me and tell you, and I.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
Ain't never came to that, never once.
Speaker 8 (26:37):
She had never put her hands on them. Good Okay.
Speaker 7 (26:41):
Despite the officer giving him plenty of chances to come clean,
Neil just kept making excuses.
Speaker 8 (26:48):
Again.
Speaker 16 (26:48):
I have to reemphasize you reinitiate a conversation with me,
and I'm more than happy to stem out.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
But you and I'm happy to sit here and down here.
Speaker 9 (26:58):
Well, I can bullshit with you if you want me to,
but I want to make sure you understand your rights.
Speaker 8 (27:03):
I think about it.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
I don't know what I'm doing. I have no idea
what's going on to figure out what happened in.
Speaker 8 (27:13):
So it was when we hitting over.
Speaker 14 (27:14):
With somebody in and Neil and I second to explain
what I was trying to tell you. You understand that
whenever there's a death, we work for the person that's deceased.
So we start at the highest level that anything could
be happening, and we look at every single person. My
job is to either prove you did it or.
Speaker 8 (27:37):
You didn't do it. He did it or he didn't
do it. They did it or they didn't do it.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
So why we kind of do that is is we
look at the first person that was.
Speaker 14 (27:44):
There, the last person to seeing the last person we're
talking to, and we do a lot of information work
on that. That's why we ask you questions over because
when you give us the answers and we go, we
go prove okay.
Speaker 8 (27:53):
So one of the things when somebody dies is what
we do.
Speaker 14 (27:55):
Pack DNA at the autopsy anybody that we believe could
have came in contact with there we also take DNA
from them. I have a search one to do the
bugle swabs of DNA in your and yourn And that's
why I'm gona I'm gonna open the can.
Speaker 8 (28:06):
I'm gonna give you the search works.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
You can see it.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
I'm gonna open the kit.
Speaker 8 (28:09):
In front of me.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I'm gonna ask you to do the bugle swallow yourself.
So I'm gonna shove my hands in your face.
Speaker 8 (28:13):
I'm gonna put it back in. Don't see it.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
So what you can tell she has correct So I
can't by looking. But when the pathologist does his thing
and the CRISTI does that, what they're gonna.
Speaker 8 (28:25):
Do is gonna look at uh. They're gonna they're gonna
do a sex sexual saft hit.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
They're going to scrape her fingernails, they're going.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
To swallow her body.
Speaker 14 (28:33):
It's going to show whoever touched her as DNA at
certain spots.
Speaker 8 (28:37):
That they take it.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
And some of some of those spots are gonna be
key areas of where injuries work and things.
Speaker 14 (28:44):
That we've seen that look suspicious on that should be
on a normal person to die for natural causes.
Speaker 8 (28:48):
Okay, so how we do this is we tea people's DNA.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
I get search ones that way, It's easier for me
to get search ones.
Speaker 20 (28:57):
How mom not check? They're on the steps? And my
mom and I texted my sister and I texted my
girlfriend who won't want to see my phone. And I said,
in case the emergency call you, why call you in
your own answer? And then I called them both and
(29:18):
then do you do you want to answer?
Speaker 16 (29:21):
No?
Speaker 8 (29:21):
And then I call him number one. I was, I
got nervous, hilary, eerie, eerie killing, and I got scared.
And then who you've seen the messages? And just to clarify,
you called battle way before you walk.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Into the room.
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Yeah, I need not have been in that room. I
got in that room. So what the hell was going on?
Speaker 3 (29:44):
What do I call it?
Speaker 8 (29:46):
Let me call you something old that. Okay, if I
old up picking me up the dump down as the X,
that's something that you would nothing. Man, You know, I
gotta give him a sister.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Where you want.
Speaker 8 (30:00):
This is going to ruin everything. Everybody think. I want
to let her down the slow and I don't want
to tell I'm that fault for no.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
I said she with her he was the east.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
So that's why we're making this into what we need
to have you around available for us. Okay, m So
at this point we have to have everybody around to
get help us.
Speaker 8 (30:23):
And I'd like to see my sister.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
You okay, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (30:30):
Leave?
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Yeah, can I leave? Your mother's deceased. You know the leerson.
Speaker 8 (30:36):
We know that saw her last that.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
We can talk to you.
Speaker 8 (30:38):
I ain't see her last night.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
You did too, I've seen her last night. You walked
into the ausers asked you to. You were the last
one there with her, so you're the only one we have.
Speaker 8 (30:49):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I didn't see her last night and tell he told
me to go in there, absolutely know that. But then
you spoke with her. You spoke with her and either
caught my sister and let me talk to her. You
just woke with her a fair.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Oh, I didn't steer.
Speaker 8 (31:04):
I told you.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
I know you said you talked to her at eight thirty.
We're not accusing you of anything. You gotta understand you're
the last person that her when the officer showed up
and you called to have her checked on right home.
We're not going in there you go in. They thought
you guys are rowing in. They said, go get all
in and tell me who you are, you and how
you're going.
Speaker 8 (31:22):
Nothing, no, no, exactly what the officer spoke.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
That's why they asked you to go. Okay, go he
don't settle down.
Speaker 8 (31:28):
I don't blame you for being upset. I don't.
Speaker 19 (31:32):
No, I want to see I got them talk to
my sister right now, or anyone telling me, No, you're
not you even know you're not going.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
We're going in, but we're not a genius and you
last time won the star. I go just whatever that
guy was last one it saw and we had that
written down. We're gonna try to check out. Well, there's
nothing in my word day and then I didn't use
my writing. Roommate, silent, what's that got to do with it?
Speaker 8 (31:56):
What are they gonna do with me?
Speaker 12 (31:57):
And you're holding me against my will, because for all
we know, he's you're responsible for us.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
We don't trying to prove this.
Speaker 8 (32:05):
Oh no.
Speaker 7 (32:07):
It was strange how desperate Neil was to talk to
his sister, almost as if he was scrambling to get
his story straight before the truth caught up with him.
But this wasn't the first time he clung to his
sister and played the victim. In fact, just hours before
the murder, he had bombarded her with texts and missed calls,
(32:27):
clear red flags that something was seriously wrong.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
I told you that he did play a finger at me,
and you went, I aint onegins you like that? That
what you before?
Speaker 21 (32:37):
I raise my voter don't mean nothing and say only
why do a thing?
Speaker 8 (32:45):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (32:46):
At this point they knew he was the killer. All
they wanted now was to hear the devil confess with
his own lips.
Speaker 12 (32:55):
You you ain't doing told you're in the wrong room,
perspect If you're any talk, you're gonna be finishing the
only time.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
You're the only wink we have to anything that occurred
the last night. You're the only thing we have to
your mom, her phone, the messages, the people.
Speaker 8 (33:13):
That were there. You're our only link Why would.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
I let you lead and give to your mom a disjusice?
Why not having the only person that can help us?
You're the only singing. What else you want?
Speaker 21 (33:25):
I don't know yet because I've not been back out
there with the crime sy anyway, I don't know what
else is out there.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
That's why I'm asking you. You are my only like.
Speaker 8 (33:33):
So if you let's let's roll and reverse the roles.
Why would be right up the street.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
I need somebody need to talk to you.
Speaker 8 (33:40):
Why a lawyer right now?
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Okayle that I'm going to.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Be dead, explained to you, that's what you want as
your lawyer, I'm gonna be done, explained what I'm trying
to do.
Speaker 8 (33:48):
I'm just trying to help you. I told you them
for making gong her phone.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
And I have no ability to look at that while
I'm here with you. But now, if you're not hold
me against my will? Now you said you want a lawyer,
I can't even talk.
Speaker 8 (34:00):
To you, and you're gonna hold me.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Slementary asking are you asking for?
Speaker 8 (34:05):
Are you gonna hold me? Are you asking? Are you
gonna hold me?
Speaker 4 (34:08):
You just told me you're gonna hold me.
Speaker 21 (34:10):
I've got gonna let you know we're not me because
you are my only link to her, and I'm not
gonna go try after you let me talk call my sister,
and you said, I'm I told you I want to
go call your sister and I need to talk.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
That's why I asked for them. And I gave everything,
everything that I know to you provoluntarily.
Speaker 8 (34:28):
And I knew I should have said that. The right's
remain time that we have.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Double if you want to help your mind, I'm trying
something on you. Everything time.
Speaker 8 (34:37):
Look at the time for a look at our phone.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
You know, let's be very clear right now. Okay, do
you want a lawyer or do you want to talk
to us?
Speaker 8 (34:45):
I want to talk to my sister.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
I think, well, amazed me, I gotta call her st.
Speaker 8 (34:57):
So will you allow us to go call her? They
come back and talk to you. I want to talk
to her. I just asked you a question. I want
to talk to her. I want I want, well, I
need to talk to her on the cell phone myself.
Speaker 7 (35:10):
And that you're doing out And for the next three hours,
Neil just sat there in that cold interrogation room, silent, stubborn,
pretending to nap like nothing happened. He never confessed, not
a single word.
Speaker 9 (35:28):
Right right, all right, Neil beating a lash drink of
water for head out right, I'll put that cut back
on your hand. So you're gonna ask about the phone number, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (35:43):
I'll get it. Let's be in the car. Okay, okay,
all right, right right, go back towards.
Speaker 7 (35:57):
But the truth didn't need his permission to come out.
DNA scraped from under Norma's finger nails told the real story.
It was a perfect match to Neil, and that was
all the jury needed. Neil A. Howard was found guilty
of murdering his own mother and was sentenced to thirty
years behind bars. To this day, the town of Troy,
(36:20):
Illinois still feels the weight of that tragedy, a small,
tight knit community shaken by a crime so personal, so preventable,
that it left more questions than answers. The red flags
were everywhere. So now we turn it over to you.
Do you think this could have been stopped? Was justice
really served? Or was it all just too late?
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