Episode 11: Truth and Manipulation: Navigating Dark Waters

Craig Shoemaker sits down with his longtime friend, Adam Cox, a former radio personality and guest on Episode 11, as he shares his deeply personal experience of being connected to a cult through his sister, who fell under the influence of its leaders. He reveals the dark and complex dynamics that led to devastating consequences, including the manipulation and brainwashing of his family members.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
I am absolutely thrilled. My number one guests, the top
guest that I wanted on this show. And who knew
that our lives would come to this with the divine
order that's out there, the script writing that's out from
some sort of higher source. Who would know that this
all began with our guest was a huge radio personality

(00:30):
in Sacramento, and he talked on the air about a
man crush that he had and that man crush was me,
and I accepted it gladly. I loved it. We had
fun with it, and finally we met, and with much anticipation.
I've never had somebody expressive, expressive man crushed to me,
at least a straight man, and so I was very

(00:50):
excited for our first meeting. He was down with his
radio station doing a remote for American Idol when American
Idol was new in Hollywood and we had our meeting.
I actually was looking in the mirror how I was dressed,
and now I looked and we met that we've been
friends ever since. So Adam or as you were known
then Lucas Lucas in my phone, we've had quite a background.

(01:14):
You were in my movie. I cast you in my
movie totally baked. And when you're doing these things, when
you're living life, you just don't know what's in store,
do you. And both of us had a you know,
an experience with a cult that brings us here today.
But thanks for being here and welcome my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Thanks Craig. And also when I wrote my book, I
put you were a big chapter. There was a big
part of you of my book as well, from my
experience of what happened when I was in your movie
and then also talking about having a man crush on
you and finally getting you on my radio show. So yeah, yeah,
that's always good.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
And I did did you write in a book I
disappointed you when you met me?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
And and by the way, and I tell this to
everybody because I run into people all the time, and
people that do stand up comedy, and they're like, well,
who's your favorite comic, And you know, you're trying to
throw around like these you know names that more people
that have been in bigger movies than you, And I
was like, to be honest, the best stand up comic
that ever that I've ever seen live is Craig Shoemaker.

(02:19):
And you know what's funny is like the average person
may not know that, but all the comedians, like the
top comedians, all reference and say anytime I interview a
top comedian, they always and nice talk about Craig, like,
oh my gosh, she's the best. They all say, wow, thank.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
You for that. I needed that. I've had a little
self esteem dash of late, and I'm really happy to
hear that. I enjoy that, especially saying that comes from peers.
My belief is a lot of times I believe that
it's the opposite there. Especially I think that people project
their own stuff onto you. I don't know if this
is a whole other topic, but or maybe it's not.

(02:55):
Maybe we'll we'll head this way the word world of projection.
I noticed the critics of me. It's always people that
are like me. It's a white male. But I find
that lesbian comedians or lesbian's period and black comedians love
me like like I had dial. Hughley said, yours is
the best special I've ever seen. Thanks man, Kat Williams, Man, man,

(03:17):
I know you, You're a legend, you know. And then
but white people, I think, or anybody. So Kat Williams
has problems with his you know, with a lot of
his brethren right, it's you know, blacks and black comedians.
So I think that's what happens in life is I
think we project this stuff onto others who are reflection
of us that we don't want to see. What do
you think about that?

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, no, there's I definitely think that that's true. And
especially nowadays, we live in a time where it's just
the world is so different than it was twenty thirty
years ago that it's rejecting things now is like it's
way more than it was back then.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Well yeah, and it's people think that they all have
the right to their opinion, and they do. They have
the right to express it, and they do. But do
you have the right to take someone down based on
a meme, a quote or something you didn't understand? Do
you really have that right? And why exercise that right
to try to take someone out? I mean, one of

(04:16):
my goals is to enhance people and really inspire them
to go in a different direction. Even this podcast is
called My Wife Joined a Cult. One of the purposes
of this is to awaken some people, which is why
I have you on here because you certainly have an experience. Yeah,
I mean, I'm just gonna tell everybody that you're a
really good guy, Like you're a really good, solid guy.

(04:38):
And obviously we all have our stuff that we've done
in the past, and but people wouldn't listen to you
the good guy. The people don't listen to me a
good man with good intentions, and they see some part
of themselves they don't want to see. They get into fear.
Even the title of this podcast, people are angry with me,
how dare you do that to her? Well, they're not

(04:59):
going to the part. How dare she do this to
the family, They're not going there? And and I'm so,
what's your experience with that? With your I have to
say i'd even introduce you properly.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
I'm watching.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
I'm watching I'm watching Netflix called it's called Sins of
My Mother, right, I think, so, yeah, you think I'm
watching Netflix. I love cult documentaries. I guess because my
dad was a cult leader. My my ex wife left
the marriage and her family for a cult you know. So, uh,
which could be defined in any way, which we're about
to find out with yours is also different. So I'm

(05:37):
watching this thing. Oh my god, this is this woman
just went from you know, just like my wife just
went from this normal, happy, you know, family oriented and
good person to this dark place and literally committed murder
and of her children and her ex husband and her

(05:59):
probably her brother. And I'm looking and up, Pops, my
own buddy you. I couldn't believe you're her brother, right,
So what better person to have on here to watch
this very negative transformation take place in her, which we're
going to get to to have you have the experience

(06:19):
like I do, of yelling out there, please somebody listen
to me, and no one's listening. That's why I really
wanted to have you on here. What better person to
share your experience. And by the way, there aren't many
of us out there, you know what I mean? So
how lucky are we to have this connection?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
And that's why, you know, the reason I wrote a
book and did a podcast was to really have families friends,
have them be aware of what's going on, and to
be open and talk about things, because you know, a
lot of times in families when things are going weird
or somebody's acting weird and you don't call that out,

(06:58):
or you don't you know, you try to call that
out and somebody just pushes that away and sweeps another run.
Because I think emotionally, you know, if they don't want
to deal with it, or they don't want to think
the worst of somebody that their family could be doing something,
so they automatically discount everything that you say, which was
what happened to me. But the reason I wrote the

(07:21):
book and we do this podcast is to make sure
that families and people talk and open up. And you're
a huge advocate of talking things through and yes me
and all the things that can also help and bring delight.
Truth and you and I are all about truth. Hey,
what Donny is, well you tell the truth. Some people
call you a liar, which is the worst for me.

(07:43):
I mean when anytime you try to tell the truth
and they're like, oh, that can't be true, and you're like, no,
this is the truth. This is what happened.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, I mean, I'm one of the key. I got
such a beautiful quote out of Daryl Hammond's documentary about
his mom and he suffered a lot of torture from her,
and he said, the truth is a fiend to people
like this, And I find that to be the truth.
I have found that. And the other thing they'll blow

(08:13):
back is well, that's that's your truth. That's your truth,
and then I'm compelled to find witnesses like my children.
Well then it's like, oh, you're subjecting your children to it. Well, no,
my children are subjected to it anyway. So were those
children who are now dead, your niece and nephew. Yeah, yes,
all because no one would listen. No one would listen

(08:36):
to your take on it. Your truth was this is
my experience, experience. If it's actual experience you're sharing, that
is the truth of what happened. Now, then there's a
different perspective. I mean, I know my ex has a
different take on For instance, when I was arrested, she
had me arrested. Now I know for a fact what happened,
it's factual, but she has twisted those facts to make

(08:59):
her look like victim and me look like the perpetrator.
And that people can't do that, especially in the society now,
or did you find that more people, because you're a male,
would believe her ahead of you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Obviously that even happened in our family because if you
think my family was super close, we all got together
all the time, and I was supposed to be apparently
everybody's favorite, you know, because I would come to town
and everybody. I would joke and laugh with everybody, and
I make sure I spent time with each individual person.
It just seemed like I was that person. But when

(09:33):
push came to shove, when I went to my parents,
I said, Laurie is acting weird. She's freaking out. Something's
really wrong with We need to do something to help her.
As soon as I did that, then they looked at
me like, no, Glorie's fine, you know, leave her alone
kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
And did you find that you became the enemy, yes.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
And then I get shut out. I'm the one that like, well,
stay away from Adam because he's he's part of something.
And whatever lies that Laurie may have said about me,
because obviously she's trying to cover up what she was doing,
they bought in because she was a girl, a woman
that was you know, not in kind and all that

(10:17):
stuff too. So all that stuff, yeah, I had that
role played on me too.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Well. It's interesting. The other thing you, obviously you and
I have a lot in common, is you're also you
were in the limelight and popular and ratings. You literally
had ratings and you're at number one, and so you're
out there, so people assume a person like that, and
you know that I've had my great deal of success
in the entertainment business as well. So they think you're

(10:45):
now the manipulator. You Craig and you Adam are the
manipulators because look what you've done. You have become this
media person and it's ego, and they assume it's your
ego and you're so of course you're lying. You're putting
up a front because that's what you do every day,
is an entertainer and all that. Did you have that
element as well that played into it?

Speaker 2 (11:03):
I'm sure, I'm sure that that definitely played into it.
And you know, when you do have some kind of
success or something like that where you're in the in
the public eye, people don't I don't think they, you know,
when you're telling them something, I don't know how they
don't take it to one hundred percent. Maybe they'll be like, oh,
that's probably fifty percent true or something like that. But

(11:25):
if we get discredited because of being entertainers or being
in the livelin I think.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Also they think that your control freak, you're the control
or white male doesn't help either of these days, and
so we're discredited when you walk into the room. You know,
I'm a nonpracticing white male at this point exactly. And
what happens is there's so much judgment that's attached. I
saw a video the other day and I'm not I

(11:54):
purposely am out of politics because I'm just watching this
absolute venom that takes place, a hatred, and but it's
all rooted in fear. So it was this, by the way,
It's all rooted in fear, and people in fear are
afraid of truth. I watched this video of a guy
who went to this rally of the Pink Cats or

(12:14):
whatever they're called, and he was simply asking a question.
She's screaming at him with this she had never met
him before, you know, like you people, you people, you know,
you get out of my you know, Oh my god.
It was unbelievable. I mean, she was at the top
of her lungs, not listening to a word he was saying.
But she was trying to understand her. But because he

(12:35):
was a white male and because I think he might
have had maybe a Trump paddle on. I don't remember
that part, but she assumed. So much assumption is made,
and I'm wondering if so much assumption was made with
you because of being this. Look, we're powerful white man
as well. I mean, we're powerful, but we don't use
you and I do not use our power in that

(12:56):
way though. That's what's funny about it. That's not your thing.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
It's not we are different than a lot of other
people that are in our shoes. But you know, when
Laurie told me that she was becoming a translated being,
when I was sitting in her kitchen with her one night,
she goes, you know, if a bullet hit me, nothing
would happen to me, and I don't ever have to

(13:20):
eat again. I am literally transitioning into an immortal being.
And I looked at her and I was like, you know, Laurie,
you know none of that is true. And she looked
at me and she goes, you think I'm crazy, don't you?
And I was like, Laurie, I don't know if you're crazy,
but I know what you're telling me is not true.
And from that point forward, she had never talked to

(13:41):
me again. From that point, she ostracized me completely.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
And she got others. She got others to collude with her.
That's what bothers me about any call and my ex
wife in particular, they're not going to go get their gang.
They're gonna go get a gang that's going to back
them up. They're gonna go girl.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, what happened. And now this whole whole group of people.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
And it's especially women's empowerment. And here's the thing, you
and I are both sensitive guys. They think that were
these white dudes with patriarchal I fought for rights for
women in my whole life, you know, but I don't
know what I was fighting for because it's what I
believe did not really exist. What exists is there's absolutely

(14:27):
something that's not being dealt with. And she wasn't dealing
with something. My ex wife, if you could coore this down,
wasn't dealing with something. The core principles of life were
being ignored. And then somebody else gets empowered because you're
not looking to a higher source, you're looking to somebody
else that's going to fill in this hole. She looked

(14:50):
to her leader, Laurie looked at her leader, right, and
then they put the belief in it. Then you get
the peers to help out. Yeah, you need to, because
they're putting out this. I needed to do this so
now she put it out there. How did your other
siblings and your mom respond to her.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Well, the problem was that Laurie was telling lies to Summer,
my youngest sister, different than she would telling to my
mom and dad, So they would never put anything together
of what she was what she was saying that she
was doing. Like we all knew that she was trying
to predict the end of the world and the second
coming of Jesus and all the things that were going

(15:30):
to happen and all this stuff. And then she met
with Chad, and Chad was putting all these things in
her head. And then there was a group. And I
still believe, you know, people think it was just Laurie
and Chad and Alex, but I think there was at
least ten to fifteen more people that knew a lot
more than what is being said. And then I think
there's still hundreds of people that were part of a

(15:52):
group a cool like you said, that are still a room.
And I don't know if they You know, if I
was part of a could and I would be like, Okay, well,
the cult leaders are both in jail the rest of
their life. They killed kids. This is nothing what I
signed up for. But in my and I would believe
that people would just run the other way. But from

(16:12):
what I understand after interviewing some people, there are still
people believing that Laurie and Chad are going to get
let out of jail there and God's coming. So there
are still people even though the cult leaders are the
heads cut off, they're still stammering around waiting. That's how

(16:32):
crazy some people can. And I don't know how brainwashing works.
I never I don't understand it, but I know if
you have to be brainwashed to actually detach yourself from
reality and what really is happening.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Well that is it. That's exactly how brainwashing works. They
find someone who's vulnerable, that's looking for answers, and they
give them the answers and needs. The answers appeal to
their fears. These answers appeal to the things that they
desire that they don't believe that they're getting. They do
it through praise, they do it through lies and manipulation,

(17:06):
and they have you. They prey upon your feelings. And
what happened with my ex is she's got this woman,
this leader, right, and this woman's got her and she
praises her and acts like this is her greatest friend.
They don't even live three hundred miles away. I mean,
it just acts like she's this. They just keep on
going with this and come on, ladies, mamas, and you know,

(17:28):
and and then the mamas are going, yeah, I'm not
really understood at home. This is my theory. I'm not
understood at home. And I don't want my role to
be just a mother. Uh, And I don't want my
I want to have my own life and I want
to have my own freedom and all this thinking that
they're actually in some cage. So this is their breakout,

(17:49):
This is the person that's gonna help them break out.
This is their freedom to what they perceive to be true.
So then it becomes a brainwashing what it is true,
It is true, it is true, it is true. Need
to get out, need to get out, need to get out.
And I think that's the dynamic that happened with her,
and I think it happens with many people. Is once
they join, then they're in, and then their entire being

(18:13):
is taken over by absolute pontification and just beating in
and beating in. It's almost like somebody it's you know,
a hostage and hostages when they do these tortures, that's
what it is. They just put it into them, put
it into them, put it into them, and eventually you

(18:34):
give in. You see people that confess to crimes they
didn't commit. It's my manipulation. But the reason I'm doing
this podcast it's called my wife Joined the Cult. But
this goes on in society period. It goes on in politics.
It goes on by watching the news. They're going to
convince you through peer pressure, shame, fear, anything they can do,

(18:56):
any method they could do to follow them that they
have your aunt. How about you? I mean, what do
you do in your life to combat against things like that?
With brainy tempted brainwashing? What do you do about it?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I mean, I anytime anything sounds fishing to me or
anybody wants to you know, and you know, I'm super
nice guy and I listen to everybody. And you know,
there's one time a guy called me on the phone
when I was married and it's like, hey, you can
get this trip to Hawaii for like four hundred dollars.
And he's going through this whole thing, and I'm laying
it back to my wife and she's like and I'm

(19:32):
like getting my credit card out. She slams the phone down,
hangs up the phones, like, you idiot, you're being scammed,
this is a scam. I was like, no, it's good.
So yes, I am. I have been naive, but I've
I feel like if anything feels like evil, anything feels dark,
anything doesn't feel right, and I go with my gut

(19:54):
feeling now and I come to a point in my
life where I don't need to be accepted by everybody
or I don't care what people think. I used to
be huge for me, like being in radio. I cared
about what everybody's on. My livelihood was getting ratings and
having people like me on the radio, So I cared
about all those things. So I was very sensitive that.

(20:15):
But I've got to a place now where you know,
I focus, really focus on just trying to do the
right things, and if anything build odd, I go the
opposite way.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh good for you. I'm not that recovered, bro. I
just I just dated someone that I just believe the
whole package. I believed at all. I went in and
you know what, let's talk about this part of it
is a childlike enthusiasm that I have, and I think

(20:47):
you and I. Look, we share a lot of stuff.
I mean, basically, it's probably why your man crush all
me is. It's a it's a it's a good projection
of self. It's a good reflection of self that we're seeing.
We're seeing you and are good people. We're just really
good people in a world of some not good people
and we're trying to manage through that. And again, this

(21:07):
podcast is dedicated to assisting people to kind of get
out of that realm, out of that system that we
put ourselves in. The people pleasing they oh my god,
because it doesn't. Now you and I can say we've
had the top of the ratings. I've been to Comedian
or American Comedy Awards, Emmy Wars. I've been at the top.
You've been at the top. And what happens. People are

(21:27):
going to take you down and then you take on
their energy. It's an energy thing, it's an energy field.
But to keep that field, I'm really happy to hear
that you are keeping that field of You have to
discard what they think about you as long as you
stay in your truth. Some people are offended by that
truth and they're going to be upset with you and
come after you and analyze you and criticize you and

(21:49):
attack you. They're going to because they don't want to
look at themselves. That's my theory or belief, and I
think that's been proven true.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah. I believe that too anytime. And I call it
negative Nancy. Is that like there's a lot of people
in life who are just negative, right, Yes? And I
think with that they bring your energy down. And so
I try to align myself now now that and you know, Craig,
as we as you know, we've known each other for
like twenty something years, as we get older and we

(22:21):
listen that we lose a lot of the people that
we would hang out with because our time is so
valuable in who we spend time with. You and I
both recognize we want to be around positive energy and
spend our time doing positive things because negative negative brings depression,
it brings hard feelings and all these things. So yeah,

(22:42):
that's a big thing for me too.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah. And what I think that Laurie and my ex
wife have in common is they look at you as
a negative because you're not in agreement with them, right,
and they run from that. They run from them. I
cannot believe sometimes to the ability that she has and
even this send girlfriend the ability to cut off, block

(23:06):
run can't find them on social media anymore. How clever
they are in doing this, so they can hide and
only have the people in front of them that they
will buy the image to buy the bs. They're only
going to put those people in front of them. So
the way I guess not to combat that, but to
just I just want to honor something that you're basically

(23:28):
saying that I've been saying for a little while now.
I want to hang in rarefied air and with those people.
And we're the rare ones though, the ones that really
have the integrity, the ones that will even be self
reflective and and really dig down to the stuff where
I make mistakes. I want to be with those people
and be on that process, the process of recovery, the

(23:49):
process of positive thinking and being. And so I'm going
to welcome you to that club. We're gonna have the
rarefied air Club. Okay, you know you've heard of the
Mile High Club. Were in a rarefied air club.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Just be completely different reference too. But going back to
your wife, and Laurie thinks that me have in common
with Ry when Laurie would tell me stuff like, you know,
she wanted me to read these near death experience books,
and she wanted me to listen to this podcast. And
every time she would call me after she would smell

(24:25):
me a book or tell me this, and I told her, no,
I haven't read it, I haven't listened to it. And
then three weeks would go by she call, have you
read that? Are you? And I was like, no, I'm
just I'm not really interested in that. Da da da da.
But and she would do that with everybody. And so
the people like my brother Alex, who you know, who

(24:45):
tried to be a standup comic. He thought the world
of you. He wanted to be, He needed to be accepted.
He was alone, he needed something, and Laurie gave him
something that she got from chat exactly. And so because
because he felt like, oh I'm needed here with this,
I'm gonna read these, I'm gonna Alex used to listen

(25:06):
to eight hours of Comedy Central or Comedy Network on
Exum satellite radio while he's driving his truck. So he's
driving his eighteen willer and I call him. I was like,
what's what's good comedy did? What did you hear. He goes, oh, no,
I'm listening to this new podcast. I was like, huh,
he goes, oh, this guy Mike Stroud his podcast. It's
it's it's the most spiritual I've ever felt in my life.

(25:28):
And I was like eight hours of spiritual podcast. I said,
what happened to the comedy? He's like, no, this is
I mean there were there's going to be tense and there.
You need to listen to this. Like he literally converted
completely went from one thing to another, as Laurie had said,
this is this is the thing, and so he bought
it to it and that's how he put that whole.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Thing, and he ended up committing murder himself.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Right, Oh yeah, he's definitely involved in all the all
the murders with that and then he got murdered. And
it hasn't approven. But if you put one of one
to each other, everything that that happened that it was,
you know, people were like, oh, it's just a coincidence
he died. Coincidence. There's no coincidence as to what happened.
That whole thing, not one coincidence. They all they are

(26:17):
all murdered.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
It's it's a it's a world of darkness, although they
appear to be light right, they have smiles on their faces.
The smile that my ex has and the recent girlfriend
lights up a room. And there's where I get fooled.
There's where I get fooled. And because I'm vulnerable and

(26:42):
I also need some sort of validation, I need some
sort of approval. It's just that, I guess I seek
it in a different way. I seek it internally first.
And where can I really connect to this true source truth,
the true source, not the don't fear. Take that pause,
take that breath, and there's where it will be revealed.

(27:05):
When you're coming from this heady spot, this needy spot,
it's trouble. So if we're going to suggest something for someone,
really really take take the moments in your life to
really kind of check out the landscape of what's truly
going on. And I paint red flags green. I don't
know if you do that because you want to here's

(27:26):
the thing that you and I have a comment. We
want to think the best of everyone.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yes, And that was a I think, Well, apparently it's
a double edged sword because it can be a flaw.
I guess, yes. But when I was married, my ex
wife would say, I'm here to protect you because there's
people that will use you and you don't even see it.
Because I look at people, I was like, oh, he's
a great guy. No not, there's this, this, this. I

(27:50):
was like, it's hard for me to see that.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, in a world of and I'm in Hollywood, it's worse.
It's a world of transactional relationships. It really is. It's like,
what can you do for me? And when you're done
doing it for them, they're done. You're they're done with you,
and you go out the pasture as opposed to who
am I really ethereally connected to? And you're one of them?
By the way, we don't talk, we'll go years without talking,

(28:14):
but you're one of them. You're you're that guy. That
is the only the only memories that we have of
one another are pleasant, uplifting ones. Yes, So why why
do we so many times in life just not embrace
and go further into that. Let's go find the ones
that don't like me, Let's find the ones that like

(28:34):
I fought against her divorce, I mean with everything that
I have instead of saying no, that's a person, it's
not meant for you. In this rarefied error. She's in
lower vibration following someone following a crazy person who absolutely
talks to you should see. I read some of the

(28:54):
things on the air that she just a self obsessed, selfish,
greedy person and who has to be so self ingrandized.
So go ahead, go follow that. Why am I following?
Why do I want to be with someone that would
do that? It would go to somebody like that, but
tell women to leave their marriages and leave their families
and the kids will be fine, They're resilient. Why would

(29:17):
I want to be with that as a wife? Apparently,
you know, it's what she chose to become. I need
to use it as an opportunity to find a person
in my life that I can connect with. Now, how
have you had that experience in your life where you
just you know, you're connected with some of you left
one thing and then you have some discoveries when you

(29:39):
do that, And what are some of those discoveries you
found about yourself?

Speaker 2 (29:44):
And I think you hit something really that I've been
thinking about a lot, and that's people's level of energy
and people the level of competence and where they're at
in life and all these things and we're all at
different levels. Everybody's at different levels. But when you find
somebody that's at your level, wherever you are, you could
be way at the bottom of the middle, at the top,

(30:06):
I don't know where. But when you connect with somebody
and their vibration and their their their energy is way
different than yours, you realize that you guys are just
not meant to be friends, to be romance whatever it
is that I try to find connection, and with connection
means you guys are vibing on the same level. And

(30:30):
it's weird. And I say that about religion too. Everybody's like, well,
this church is true, this church is true, this is
this is my church. And you get judged for whatever
church you go to because everybody thinks their church is
the best church and everybody should go to their church,
where in my opinion, I was like, I think everybody's
a different levels of spirituality, how you feel about God,

(30:53):
how you and and what that happens. You get judgmental,
which the one thing God doesn't want you to do
is be judgmental. And it seems like those things that
you tend to you want everybody to be on your level,
and if they're not you have. It's hard sometimes to
tune it out and be like, well, obviously they're think

(31:15):
they're on this level and we're never gonna connect because
they're at this level and I'm at this level.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
But letting go and the family members, oh, family members
is really really difficult.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
I have one good experience, amazing experience which I like
to duplicate in my life period is my mom. I
hit a bottom with my mom, didn't talk to my mom,
and now it's the most extraordinary relationship to the point
where she calls me and says, you lift me up.
I mean, I'm it's unbelievable that we didn't speak. So
I know that it can be done with dedication, with
dedication to processes that really vibrate well with you, where

(31:55):
you get to truth, where you get to examine yourself,
where you go in there and you listen to their
people's feedback and things like that. Not just some people
that are just trying to take you down, but maybe
there's people out there that are indicating a message you
might want to hear. I heard a message from my
mom and my kids and my ex girlfriend get off
the damn phone instead of fighting that go oh I
got to do business and all I gotta go, Okay,

(32:18):
sacred pause, spiritus breadth, Nah. You need to hear that,
and then we keep evolving from there if we have
those people who can reflect. You tried to reflect some
of your truth back to people and they resisted it.
They just pushed it away. How's your relationship with your
mom and your younger sister now that you were the

(32:39):
one who is Do they ever apologize?

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah, they've we've we've had a meeting. My uncle who
I did the podcast with, called me and said, when
the kids were found, my mom knews for sure, and
then that Laurie was involved in all this and it
took it took all of that time before she realized
even though there were so many you know, red flags

(33:06):
all the way through that I got a chance to
uh Rex called me and said, hey, your mom wants to,
you know, sit down and talk with you.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
And I'm gonna give my mom's brother Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
And so I went to my mee, so listen to this.
So I moved to Saint George's, Utah to do a
radio show and I was there for a year and
a half. And when my parents and I were not talking,
they lived there, talk about awkward. Am I gonna run
into them at the store? Am I gonna at a
small town? So all this was going on. So finally, uh,

(33:39):
you know, when they found the kids and my mom,
you know, realized. I went to their house and me
and Rex sat there and my uncle and I was
talking to my mom and dad and it turned into
me screaming at the top of my lungs at both
of them, and I called them every name. I said,
you guys are the dumbest people a lot like I

(34:00):
literally let in I just because I had two and
a half or three years of just holding stuff, being
ostracized from my family, for me trying to say what
was happening, and nobody listening to me, and then call
I was saying, I'm uninformed. My dad send me an
email saying I'm uninformed, and just like all these things,

(34:22):
you know, I guess therapeutically screaming. But after that, every
time I'd say, okay, well, I'm gonna go back, maybe
two weeks later, went back to their house for dinner,
talked again, and then we would get into I would
get into it again, and literally it took months of
me going to their house and turning into screaming at
them still and then it just even is less and

(34:43):
less and less and less and less. And now we're
in a situation where they're moving down to Arizona to
be closer, you know, and Summer lives there my sister.
But me and my sister now have a better, way
better relationship. Me and my mom and dad have a
better relationship. But it's nowhere like it was before Laurie
blew up this through this bomb on her family. It's

(35:04):
not close, but it is going in the right direction.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, what about what about? This is something that reminds
me of like weapons of mass destruction. I mean, I
remember a guy was ready to punch me and go
kiss Saddam Hussein's flag because I questioned whether there were
weapons of mass destruction and whether we should be going
to Iraq. I use that because it doesn't it's not
as volatile for people as other current things that might
be going on. And it's conspiracy there is whatever it is. Yeah, Yeah,

(35:31):
it takes a little bit of theory. So you and
I had a theory that she was doing which and
my ex wife was doing she and people don't want
to hear those theories and they condemn you and they
call you a conspiracy theorist or whatever it is. I
use that as an example because all the people that
argued with me about the weapons of mass destruction, no
one ever apologized, no one ever came clean and said

(35:54):
you were right. It's going on now with other topics.
But like I said, I think that to me is
the symbolic one of how deep people can be in
their righteousness. Now my question is did they apologize?

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, my mom has apologized probably a thousand times. I
just got to the point where, you know, I go
to our house and she would cry and apologize. I
was like, Mom, you've already apologized way too much. I
understand you're sorry, and you know, I accept your apology.
So that that has happened.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
That's great.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
And so we've had we've had those discussions. But it's
still a work in progress. I mean, it's still and
there's still stuff that we just don't know and we
still don't agree on. So that's there's still some things
that are dividing us a little bit.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, one of the things that bothers me most is
those people they're in collusion with them and their accessories
and I'm sure they have guilt and their accessories to
this crime, like if they would have listened, you know,
there's this scenario of, well, if they would have listened,
maybe they would have stepped in. And that's just something
that drives me crazy. You and I have the courage
to step in and speak of truth that no one

(37:02):
wants to hear. And that what my screaming would be
to her accessories to the crime. She's been violent, she's
been a criminal, forging documents, all these things, and it's
just like, no hits him. It's him, it's him. Hi,
it's a patriarch, he's dominating and all that stuff. That's
what they just assume is true. So my thing is like, hey, hey,

(37:25):
get some guts and confront this and truly look at
I say. If you don't believe me, talk to the children.
There's innocent as could be, and they're going to tell
you what they witnessed. And what they witnessed is truth.
There's no person of it. They watched violence, they watched
mom run out of the room, they watched mom blow
up a family, they watched her do these things. They

(37:46):
watched them. They were kidnapped twice, so their witnesses, just
like your niece and nephew are witnesses. Just like the
nephew who actually did the documentary that I watched, Ye
witnessed it. This is our story, this is my story.
And people want to challenge your own story. Well, challenge
your own story that says you can't hear something alternative

(38:06):
to what you want to believe and lay in denial.
You lay in denial and you're gonna die, and other
people are gonna die, maybe not literally but figuratively. So
there's a repair going on with these people that you're
just fine. And finally you did scream at them, But
what you were trying to do the whole time was
not to be able to bring it to the screen place,

(38:27):
which is that's where I am. It's like somebody, somebody
step up, somebody confront her and say, this doesn't make sense,
this is not you. You need to get the hell
out of there. You need to stop listening to this
crazy person. But you know what they do. They'll email me,
they'll send me text messages. Well, she's nuts, you see

(38:48):
what she posted. But what are they doing about it?
Did you have anyone else helping you in this process
of trying to reveal who she was becoming who ended
up being a murderer, which I'm scared of that.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
By the way, Well, Charles is the one of who
Laurie was married to at the time, and he was
telling me all this stuff that's going on. Of course,
Laurie told my family not to listen to anything Charles
had to say, so they all cut him off. I
was the only one of the family that would take
a phone call, so Charles would tell me stuff, and
me and Charles were, you know, trying to get her
help or want not knowing what to do. So again, going.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Back, I'm sorry, Who's Charles?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Was Laurie's husband that that her and Alex murdered?

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Oh? Oh husband, Yeah, he so he's on to it.
He's trying to work with you. That was an ally
of yours.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
No, which him and I well, he told me about it.
So him and I were trying to get Lourie something
help somehow, try to get him help.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
By the way, and by the way, there's another thing
that's I want to talk to you about. Where's the help?
Where's the help? Where do I lead her to? I
just met with the guy the other Day's about Kennedy
and I'm going get her own kenemy. Whatever the hell
it is something where she gets stops with the brainwashing.
Where is the help? What kind of mental health was this?
People would say, Well, like our kids asked her to

(40:12):
go to rehab, because rehab means rehabilitate. You've got to
She's been programmed from this woman. Listen to thousands of
hours of this woman just constantly on top and top
of the feminine, feminine, the feminine and feminine ladies. Women,
come on, get your strength, get your independence. You know

(40:33):
that was the messaging. So that gets absorbed like a sponge.
Who who rings out the sponge? What kind of a
what kind of a therapy can you do? Where can
you send them?

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Oh? This is the question, and this is where we're at.
And I wanted to bring this up. So even I
told my dad, you know, you know, we gotta do
something about Laurie. He said, she's a grown woman. You
can't just go into her house. Think about this. If
you really want to take charge of it. If I
could have saved everybody's life, I would have gone into
hogty Laurie. Take her to a therapist or a jail,

(41:07):
or to do something, and then I would be in
jail for whatever, for kidnapping her to try to save
other people that she would be And so my dad's like,
she's a grown woman. You can't force her to do anything.
When she comes out of her delusion, she will And
at this point she hadn't heard anybody. That's what he said,
because he didn't know. So at this point, what do

(41:30):
you do? So Charles, Laurie's husband at the time, was
telling the police, my wife has gone crazy. She said
she was going to kill me. This is all on
video camera. It's all the documentary. Nobody can do anything.
Nobody did anything because you can't do anything. What do
you do? Laurie? Then they when the police did arrest

(41:50):
Laurie or send Laurie to a psychopal she passed it.
Who's the person that passed? Who's the guy that interviewed?
Asked her? Our system is broke. Police. You go to
the police and say, look, my life's in dangerous. She
can be dangerous or something. What are they gonna do?
She hasn't committed a crime yet.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Wow, unbelievable. This is just ringing. It rings so true
to me. And yes, so that was my initial question.
To you, and you don't have an answer either, is
where do you send somebody? Because you'll get the all
they have to want it. They have to want it themselves.
Well really, well, if they wanted themselves. She wanted her
children dead. There's the results of that. I had the

(42:31):
police here after she was violent again. And no one
can believe this if you ever meet her, there's not
a shot this hippie woo oh, so beautiful breathwork. I
do tapping. I meditate and it says, oh it's peaceful.
I go to Joe Despenser and I have a have
a montra meditation. No, this, this is this is who

(42:53):
I am. Oh, Craig, Craig just you know, he's just
upset and he's he's bitter and he's angry because because
I had enough, and you know, let's pray for him.
And this is what she does. So I had the
police here. You know what they said to me. They said, listen,
I don't want to be rude, but we just had

(43:15):
to clean up a woman's head. It was smashed in
the street. Do you think we're gonna think you need
to be protected a big guy like you. Yeah, And
another woman at the police station. I said, I thought
that she was behind me. Oh my god, I finally
had somebody listening. You ever have that happening? Go Oh,
I got somebody listening. I got somebody listening. This is great,
this is great. She goes. I met with her and
she said she's fine. That's the extent of the examination.

(43:41):
So I wanted to do an examination. Now you're telling
me I probably shouldn't because there's too many people that
are here to don't rock the boat, don't be alarmed.
I'll say things like I have threatening messages from the
cult leader's boyfriend, literally threatening messages to take the children
away and so forth. People I, oh no, but that

(44:01):
doesn't mean anything to anyone. So I keep thinking, is
there somebody in her family or father, you know, is
he going to say that's it? I've had it for
other His two children committed suicide, by the way, her
brother's committed suicide within three weeks or one another. Are
they going to step up to see that there isn't
more of this mental illness that's passed on passed on

(44:22):
to my children. But you can't process your own feelings properly.
You can't do anything besides being violent or running away
or whatever it is, or or false arrests. You know
what's going to happen? Where is where? Where does it explode?
Who could predict that? But if unless you take, unless
you take the dynamite and to take remove the gunpowder,

(44:46):
it's it's bound to blow at some point. And this
is a desperation that I have. It's like, what's next?
Because she's cam, because they're because they're calm for a while.
You probably didn't hear for them for a while, Laurie, Right,
nothing going on?

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Right months months nobody had heard from her, the people
that even my parents, like obviously she she cut me
off a long time. But there was months where her
and Chad they didn't call my my they cut everybody off.
There was you didn't know what they were doing where
they were. Yeah, but there's really nothing like what could
your ex wife's father do?

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Well?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Can he just go grab her and say get out
of this cold I'm going to take you home and
lock you in a room, Like literally, what can anybody do?
People have to make their own decisions, your ex wife, Laurie,
Chad Alex, everybody makes their own decisions. The problem is
is that we innocent people have to uh endure all
this pain, emotional pain, physical pain.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Fantasy, my fantasy is rehabilitation. That's my fantasy. And and
and she would say rehabilitate from what I'm fine, Well,
how about narcissism? About narcissism where you are so malignant
with your narcissism that you would affect these beautiful children.
Oh my god, there's such incredible, beautiful spirits. And she

(46:08):
just okay, let me just blow this up and let
you guys deal with it. Let me just and have
no follow up to that, No honesty, no listening to
the children, nothing except bullying. But she's got this woo.
She can't be a bully. I look like a bully,
and I look like a bully because I'm trying to
get her to go somewhere she doesn't want to go.

(46:29):
So I end up looking like a bully because I
desperately want for my children to see somebody in recovery
from whatever ails her. Find that out first. But so
here's the thing. She actually said this, Adam. She goes,
this is when we're married and happy and by the way,
blissful marriage. For a long time. I loved it. I mean,
I think she did I know the kids did, and

(46:52):
she just I mean, it's just so sad to just
watch somebody fall like that. But she says to me,
because I would talk about interventions, I have the courage
to do interventions, by the way, I've done them. One
of the greatest moments in my life was somebody's intervention
for alcohol and and I mean I walked in that room.
She was literally dabbing blood from her shoulder. I'm from

(47:14):
her elbow because she had fallen off the bed and
blamed the bed in the middle of the afternoon, watching
Steve Wilcose with cigarettes and beer cans everywhere, a grown
woman doing that and then saying, no, I don't have
a problem, right, tell me I look like I get
told me I'm fat, by the way, And I still
held onto that. Here's this woman to dabbing the giant
blood with a gauze pad. Say you're fat, shoemaker, I said,

(47:37):
what what shoemokey? I said, what what do you mean?
So like for a second, I took it on. She's
there with this you know, T shirt, with these boobs
that are dropping down all the way to her waist
and just sitting there smoking these slim cigarettes and just
complete ash trays and everything. Her life's a mess. And
I got on that damn bed. I looked there in

(47:58):
the eye and said, we family a whole bunch of people.
Nobody else but every are scared. One of the people said,
I'm gonna keep my person in the car for running away.
They were scared of her, like something's gonna happen. People
are afraid could confront and I'm not. And that makes
me a bully, That makes me the bad guy. That

(48:19):
makes me, Hey, just let it go, let it go.
People told you to let it go, right, yep, go.
She's gonna find her way. She might even find her
way back. She found her way to dig deeper, which
is what scares me about my exes. Was just in
Japan with this woman leader of hers. They went away

(48:40):
together and there they are just celebrating life and all
this pontificating about theories on life and all this stuff.
It's theories, But there's where is the help out there?
If I were running for president, if I were in government,
the first thing I would do. People talk about mental

(49:00):
illness and no one does anything about it. You can't
tell me, you cannot know what here you and I
have been at this a while. We still don't have
a solution for mental illness. Cost and the cost of
rehabilitation is ridiculous. These rehabs are out of sight. So
therefore you've got now. So now only the rich can

(49:23):
get well, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
And the rich don't want to get well though.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
The rich don't want to get well.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
We'll get there for a week and then they try
to get out because they got money. They want to
go do other things.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yes, yes, and they'll they'll go find a dealer. Yeah,
you know, they don't want to get well. It's exactly right.
But I did this intervention, and you know what, some
of it stuck. I don't know if it still is today.
I haven't talked to her in a little while, but
I felt very happy at least that I planted a
giant seed that did grow because she ended up in rehab. Well,
how is how is Laurie or how is my ex

(49:55):
supposed to know anything if there's not somebody doing that
intervention speaking the truth of reflecting back. Here's what we've seen.
You do reflect that and have the guts to do that.
That's my dream is that she's gonna have one of
her friends. She's got great friends, it says, ah, especially
the one who's in recovery. Her friend. It really upsets
me that she no longer speaks to me either. That's

(50:18):
the one where I'm going, Oh, you know, twelve step recovery.
You had your own bottom and you don't think that
you can help your friend. It just drives me crazy
how people can avoid this. A cop that says, oh,
she seems fine. The cops that told me, we're not
going to do anything about this. I thought, I said,
I thought, if somebody touches you, then it's an arrest.
I was arrested and I didn't touch right, just based

(50:41):
on her saying that I did right. It's just it's
it's insane the way a society is set up. So
where is the solution? I guess we don't have it today.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
No, And that's something that I think that when everybody
talks about change, especially now we're talking about politics, what's
going to change in the country. What do we need
but mental health? And it seems like there's more and
more people that have mental health issues then maybe twenty
or thirty years ago, maybe just because it's so more
open and there's so much more stuff going on. But

(51:14):
I think therapist. I think therapy can work for a
lot of people. There's others. There's all kinds of therapy
that works for you know, helping people depression, anxiety, you know,
listening to music, writing your thoughts down in a journal.
We had a we have some money on our podcast
as this event that came on that now works in

(51:36):
Arizona at a horse ranch where you go in the
horse therapy and you hold this hut, you hug this horse,
and the horse knows you're inside and knows what you're
going through and can feel your vibrant. It's like, this
is the kind of stuff that has helped a lot
of people, all different types of therapy, and I think

(51:56):
for mental health that that has to be number one.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
But here's the rub who has the money, right, the
money or big pharma. You think big farm is going
to encourage that because therapy is what's needed, and therapy
is a process. Therapy is something you deprogram and recondition yourself.
This is what I teach, by the way, is what
my coaching program is about, deprogramming so you can be

(52:21):
truly love light, levity, b who you really are. People
talk around the world. Authenticity. Yes, that is who you are,
but you've been bamboozled by putting stock into It's not
going to get better anytime soon because the leaders. The
leaders are not about that. They're deflecting over to the border.
They're deflecting over to here. They deflect where they want

(52:43):
you to deflect, so you won't truly look at yourself
and examine yourself as a nation and as a person.
As a world, you don't examine and we're not taught
to do that. We're not taught to go anywhere to
find these solutions for ourselves to take what's been conditioned.
And we've been bombarded with this conditioning. So that's why

(53:04):
the responses are I'm not never worked before. I'm not
going to go in there. Let them be. That was Nope,
it's so frustrated. I don't know if in our lifetime
that there will be a solution for this. It seems
to be getting worse.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Yeah, Unfortunately, there's just people that're just gonna suffer like
I mean, we're just literally we'll suffer through it and
try to do the best that you can and try
to be positive. I mean, you know, work, the life
is hard, already, and then when you have like unexpected
life events that are tragic happened to you, then then

(53:38):
that's where you have to really step forward and just
be like, gosh, I know there's not a lot of
help for this. I'm just gonna have to figure out
how to help myself.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Do you ever watch it? Try to find something you
want on Netflix and try to put in the word
spiritual healing. Is there anything about love and healing?

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (53:57):
I could to find it. I could to find it.
Doesn't get ratings, ironically, are cult documentaries?

Speaker 2 (54:07):
It's true. I mean people are interested in true crime for.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Sure, and oh my god, it's in an all time high.
A true crime is an all time high. We are
fascinated by it. But people are just not going to
tune into wellness. It's not it's not it doesn't it's
not interesting because we're not programmed that way. If you
watch the news every single day, it's only about what
bleeds leads. Yeah, it's only it's been that way for
a long long time. It's not just now, it's this

(54:32):
is the way it is, and then the entertainment came
into it. Now it's entertain you and the way to
entertain you are these stories that you're gonna go outside
of yourself, but really look in your own family. Now,
look at yourself. That's where it's all distractions. So is scrolling,
so is the Instagram TikTok all distract, distract, distract, all
to take you away from this self expedition that we

(54:55):
could all do. I've got to do it constantly. That's
part of the reason for doing this as well. I'm
getting this out. I need my own healing over this.
I'm extremely, extremely saddened to watch this woman I love
so much. I absolutely said to her, there was no
better person I ever met in my life. There was

(55:15):
no first issues, first, second, and third, bronze, silver and
gold all in one, and then just just apparently didn't
feel that about herself and needed to go get outside
validation and Laurie, if you could sum that up, is
that what she was looking for?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, looking for something like that. I wanted to be special,
you know, And she was great all the way until
she had that epiphitty or like I need to be somebody.
I'm somebody, you know. I don't know if it's a
midlife crisis. I don't know if it's like if It's
something when when people get to a certain part of
their life where they feel dull or they feel like

(55:53):
even though it's super successful raising kids, it's super successful
being a great spouse, you know, doing all kinds of stuff,
being in good health, working like, there's a lot of
things that you can look at yourself being successful. But
some people just feel like, I guess I just need more.
I want to be more or something different. I don't
know how it worked.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
I became very successful, so did you at the top
of the heap man. But the thing is that I
kept focusing on is I just wanted to have my family.
That's all. Just keep it there.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Now.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
The other people out there who sponsor or pay cover
charges or whatever it is, of course they're needed as well.
But I just feel like if we keep on, here's
my goal right now is to start a movement. The
whole thing is I used to be with politics. I'll

(56:46):
admitted big lefty and I'm going, oh my god, are
they angry. I was there because of the tolerance, because
of the empathy for other compassion for minorities and so forth,
and I'm going, oh my god, they became the party
of No. You can't have freeze speech. You can't even
have an inkling of the other side. It's all attack methods,

(57:06):
not like saying how great we are and how spiritual
we are and how evolved we are. It's like, how
dare you? And you're a bad person if you ever
supported Trump? All that kind of that's all become started
to become and then they start attack, attack, attack, And
now you're giving the guy attention. I said that all along.
I was never into him about you're giving them all
the attention. He's working your ass. You're stupid idiots, You're stupid.

(57:29):
So I love being in this independent, mindful space where
I get to like kind of see it and just
repair my own life. But here's the thing. I want
other people to join in on this. You know, like
contact means I want to be a part of the movement.
I want to be a part of a laugh out
love movement and have that at the top of our
list and have that vibration. It becomes attractive. So let's

(57:52):
say somebody this My theory is. I don't like theories usually,
but here it is. If you raise your vibration and
become from a place of laugh out love, right, you're laughing.
You're loving, You're living in light and genuine energy flow.
If you have that, you become attractive to the people.
So instead of the frauds that they're going for, they're
going for the frauds the shiny objects. Right, this is

(58:15):
like something real that we are delivering, and there are
going to be people that gravitate towards that that will
have a curiosity. Yeah, I'm feeling little real life crisis.
I'm feeling my spouse isn't really paying attention to me
and all that. If we bring that, maybe the spouse
comes along with you because now they're noticing your vibration

(58:35):
is higher, They're noticing something that they were probably detaching
from as well. So instead of this blame world, we
rising tides lift all the boats. That's my theory. What
do you think?

Speaker 2 (58:47):
I agree? I think that would be a great you know,
it's a great thing to go and I have good
ambition and anything positive I think is good. So I
can Can you do it? I hope? So?

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Well, here's the thing that's a it's a good question.
Can you do it? I'm gonna answer this off the
top of my head. Yes, of course. What if the
group was just you and me. Yeah, we're there. You
know what I mean? Like there it is.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Now that group I can guarantee. I know this for
a fact because I've already seen that. I've I had
groups myself, the Enlightened Up Group and so forth, and
I watch people go I said one of their assignments,
I've called them fun sigmons. Hey, why don't you post
funny memes on our website on our Facebook page? So
when people wake up, they don't look at something like

(59:33):
look at what the left did, look at what the
right day you live, trds, you you conservative maniacs, whatever,
instead of that that's ugly. It's ugly. You want that dad.
People get off on that. It's like an addiction. We're
addicted to it. It's an addiction. Step away. Okay, I'm
gonna go to this site. So that's my premise is,

(59:53):
let's build a site at the Laughter Heels. You know,
I've owned that organization for years, nonprofit. Gonna see some
funny memes and cut funny stories and see people sharing
of themselves and even their vulnerabilities and even the difficulties
they're having. I'm trying to keep this thing that I'm
doing the my my wife joined a cult. I'm allowing
it to expand with my heart, you know, naturally and

(01:00:17):
organically ex let it expand, And there's gonna be people
are cynical, going what is that? You know? I'm gonna
say to them, if your listen, I don't care, I
don't care. I would guarantee it means you're not evolved. Yeah,
I'm opinionated on it. Yeah I'm arrogant. Yeah, go ahead.
You can either listen to that and actually heed the warning,

(01:00:40):
or you can just spit me out and I don't care.
I'll never listen to you again. Okay, it's okay. I
don't need that's blood money to me. If I have
to make myself into what you want me to be,
it's blood money. I'm losing my own heart. I might
as well stab myself in the heart if I'm going

(01:01:01):
to do things for you. This is what I'm connected to. Goodness, kindness,
light bliss. That's why I had you on the podcast today.
You are one of those rarefied air people and happened
to have had this experience that is absolutely a nightmare
me too. We share that. What are we gonna do

(01:01:23):
about it? Doing about it. She's in jail. My exes
moved on boyfriend business. You know I'm doing by the way,
I'm redoing the I'm so bad at this stuff. I'm
still bad anything cunning. Yeah, you know, like all that's all.
I'm like right out with it too. I'm going to

(01:01:45):
redo the child support. My ex wife is also the
one before this was also really really bad, like like
really bad, twelve thousand a month I was given her.
She still actively she was this poor single mom. She
would portray herself as. And by the way they play that,
I get the people that agree you poor mother. Oh
my god. And then this go around, I'm paying her.

(01:02:10):
So then she's saying on the podcast, on her podcasts
and her stuff on social media, I create wealth for
mama's out there. Well, Mama, you got some wealth. Pay me.
I would love if I gave all the checks for
I would walk in the door and hand those checks
or every single time without any pause whatsoever. I would

(01:02:33):
love to have a dime come back to me instead
of being taken away. Yeah, and build and by the way,
you know where it would go, I'd build it for
the kids. Yeah, that's where that's where my life goes.
I want these children to live a beautiful life, a possibility,
and it's impossible when people take these roads, these narrow

(01:02:54):
roads where they just listen to themselves, they just pat
themselves in the back. You go girl. Then when I
saw you go girl, when they said did she escaped
her marriage? That's what I saw it on the page.
Oh yeah, you go girl, You go girl. You get
out of there, because she portrayed it as being abused,
which women use that word all the time, and we're not.

(01:03:16):
You'd say it all they want you and I are
not got bad moments. Sure, maybe the top of your
lungs you scream. I'd probably screamed the top of my Yeah. Whatever. Yeah,
it's not who we are at our core. We need
more people to connect with our core, our core values,
our core morals, our core standards, our core love. We
need to connect on that level. You talked there about energy.
It's energy and energy follows thought. Now that our thoughts

(01:03:39):
are in this direction, let's make it happen.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
I'm in.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
You're gonna sign up from my coaching program.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
I'm just kidding, my own coaching program, do you really? Yeah,
it's called Accountable goal dot Com. So I help people
achieve their goals in life. Just because I've achieved so
many different goals of my life that I feel like
I have a formula that can help people achieve. Whether
it's weight loss, or you want to be a singer,

(01:04:07):
or you want whatever it is that you want to
actually accomplish. I feel like it can help people accomplish that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
And what's it called again, give you your promo.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Accountable Goals dot com is my website.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Accountable Goals.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
I make people. Well, the thing is, I make people
accountable for what we decide. When you decide what your
goals are, I help you do that. It's the daily
check in with you, and I'll hold you accountable for
what you say you're going to do that day to
achieve your goal. And so every day it's a check
in that you'll be held accountable.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
That's interesting. It's interesting how I believe that in a
relationship that would make it strong. This ex girlfriend, and
she's an ext girlfriend. She says, I said, somebody, hey,
reflect to one another because she helped me. I don't
want you to do that. I don't need that, is
what she said. And oh you don't really, so solo,

(01:04:58):
you'd stay in your own mind and do things like
you just did, like break up with a text message.
Oh yeah, that's good, that's real good. So yeah, you're
gonna really achieve a lot of goals by quitting and
running and avoiding.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Oh yeah, now block me. Oh yeah, there you go
right down that road. Yeah, but you're talking about accountabit.
I love the title. I might sign up. I might
sign up and for accountable goals dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
You coach me. I coach you. I help you with
your goals. You help me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
We actually can make a deal, make it. We'll make
a side deal. We're neither one of us charges the other,
but we're there for one another. We need to all
be there for one another. I'm there for you for
a lifetime. Yeah, imagine you are with me for a lifetime,
and it manifests itself in funny ways. You had your
first movie part was in my pot movie Totally Baked,

(01:05:44):
and I got the first time in my life and
by the way, the last that a straight male had
a man crush on me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Stand up comic ever, I mean, everybody, I just I
just love it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Thank you man?

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Well, this, oh that's right. You saw me recently in Phoenix.
I forgot about that. By the way, on the side here,
did did the date ever work out?

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
No, Yeah, I was going to say that I knew that.
I saw that coming. There was just you know, we
know and by the way, in dating, that's the only
I'm going to have no upper vibration.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Vibration, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
That's what we want. And we were married to people
who didn't want that. Nothing wrong with them, that's just
the way they took it. And you talk about accountable,
that's the big thing that bothers me most about. Well,
one of the things that bothers me is non accountable.
This recent next girlfriend and my ex wife not accountable.

(01:06:51):
And I think people have a difficulty with that. I'm
sure you have a difficulty coaching them through that. People
don't want to admit it. They want to go find
somebody that goes yeah yeah, no, no, no, no, no, you
don't need to be accountable there, no, no, you're good,
You're good. Don't let them be negative. Don't let them
tell you know, because they think you're negative. If you're
holding him accountable.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Yeah, there's a positive way to hold somebody accountable and
still make him realize. Oh I need to do this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
That's exactly right. Yeah, you're the man.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
I love you too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
And uh, let's let's keep going going out there, all right,
let's bring light to the world.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
All right, Yep, you're doing great, Thank you man.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
All right? That's uh, Adam and how and we're gonna
go to Accountable Goals dot com to stay in touch
with him. Ye me go to Craig Shoemaker dot com.
Write me a note. You know what, I haven't put
it out there, Adam. I've been doing this podcast now.
This is about my tenth episode. I think it's all
been streaming of consciousness, but it's from my consciousness. It's
from a deeper place of meaning and purpose. It's driving

(01:07:50):
me to do this. You know, it's gonna some parts
are gonna be bitter, angry. This guy hasn't really worked
this stuff out, you know what I mean. And here's
some parts that people might relate and go, wow, I'm
in that space. Why I'm reaching out to all of
you and you stay in touch with me, you DM
me you, I will connect with you. If you're attacking, no,
you can go bye bye. But if you're curious, which

(01:08:12):
is such a key to the accountability, be curious, ask
me something. If you don't understand it, I will give
you the clarification, and we might be in this together.
We are in this together. We actually have a group purpose,
and that is to help others. We all need to heal.
We need to do it with love and laughter. That's
what I believe, that's what I've experienced, and let's just

(01:08:34):
expand that awareness. All right, all right, brother, let's hope
this recorded. I'm a tech idiot.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
Se