Episode 16: Jeff Kober Unveiled: Exploring Cults, Meditation, and the Quest for Inner Peace

In this thought-provoking episode, Craig Shoemaker and special guest Jeff Kober dive into the complex worlds of cults, wellness grifters, and meditation. They explore the allure of spiritual systems, the dangers of misplaced trust, and the quest for inner peace in a chaotic world. Through personal stories and candid insights, they unravel the challenges of seeking meaning amidst manipulation, urging listeners to look beyond the illusions. Join us as we discuss how to find true enlightenment and the courage to see beyond the surface.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Another episode of My Wife Joined a Cult. I kind
of chuckle when I say that title because it sounds
so deep and heavy, and I like to treat things
with a little bit of lightness, even though you could
consider a lot of what we're all going through in
society period. By the way, it's very toxic out there,
and we're going through a season right now, and it's

(00:26):
really kind of butts up against someone like me who
wants to live in spirit and good vibration. So this
podcast has taken all sorts of forms and directions, and
I'm really happy to be bringing it to you, and
I mean happy. It's cleansing, it's investigatives. There's a lot

(00:49):
to it. And let's get to the guest. I'm going
to introduce them without the credits that we usually do.
We're a Hollywood guys. We both had successful careers, and
I've never even mentioned my career but four on this thing,
and I'm not going to mention it now or his,
but I will tell you he has had quite a career,
a lot of credits. You can look them up later.
That's not what this is about. Hey, Jeff, Jeff.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Cober, Hey Graig goodness, here look at that man.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
You got your nice microphone, and you look very astute
and intellectual with your books.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
I got a lot of books back here, and I've
read some of them.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Oh, if I put books behind me, it's it's I
might have glanced at a few of.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Them, if you want to know this.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Actually, I don't have a curtain for this window, and
it was to block the sun.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
So this is actually a.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
You know what, You've got some gaps. I'm going to
bring you some of my books.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yeah, my wife would kill you. Every time I bring
a book in the house. I have to get rid
of three.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Oh god, I think my life has been that way
with people, though. I got to get rid of three
to put in one. But anyway, how are things going
in your life? You're married now since i've seen you last,
and your son. I remember your son's name is Henry.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Am I right about that? That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
I knew him when he was a wee lad. He's
probably in his forties now.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
He's thirty five, is he really? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh that's the way we age see the kids that
used to see you know, literally as toddlers, and then
they're thirty five, and then you're a grandparent. That's how
we age someone else's not how I feel about myself.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
And it feels like that's just not possible. It's not
possible that I'm as old as I am.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
It's not possible, you know. I go to my reunions
and I see people, See my kid just walked in.
You can keep the phone. I can't talk right now. No,
we're doing trades, or we're doing fantasy trades. By the way, folks,
we will get to the cult stuff, don't you worry.

(02:58):
But really life is about having fun, and it's it's
about all of it. You can't just focus on this
is serious, and that's what makes for great drama. Always
there's always humor involved, and there's also a camaraderie in
a friendship. And we go back very long time. Henry
is now thirty five.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
You know what I do with my kids is I
go to my reunions, right, Jeff, and I go, I
cannot look like these people. There's no way they are
my age. Right. I look, and I go, that's my
that's my grandfather, not even father. Some of them look
like my grandparents. Ye, I can't be that. And then
I'll see people in the streets and I'll go, oh
my god, they could be my age. They look like

(03:38):
they you know, So now what I do with my kids?
I go, I'll see somebody in a walker is like
ninety seven. I go, that was my prom date. I'll say,
I baby sat that guy. I remember how even a little.
But yeah, I mean, I'm just making fun of myself.
And yeah, the age age catches all of us.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
And you like me, like I do. We actually.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Not that one of us is ever going to retire,
because that's not what life is about.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
It's not about.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Working, working, working so you can then quit and then
not have anything to do. It's about working so that
the work that you're doing feeds you and enlivens you
and wakes you up more and more and more as
you go further along. And yeah, you do look different
than your fellows in situations like that, because you are

(04:37):
different most.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Often, it is true. And it's to bring up work
because we all know it works if you work it,
and that's how life works.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yes, it does.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
It works if you work it, and it stops when
you stop. And it's an ever growing evolution, which brings
me back to the podcast. Is this podcast is an
evolution and it's it's constantly reforming and even intent, even
intent has happened through different guests and different feedback, and
I get feedback from people it's my wife joined a cult.

(05:12):
And I talked to you, Jeff, that you have been
into cults. Well they will remain nameless.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, you wouldn't. Like one of them had a big
article in the Hollywood Reporter about them as a cult leader.
And then another one was someone that I worked with
for some time but in the meditation community.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
And you know, since.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
We're talking to you about this last week and deciding
to come on and talk, I started asking myself, you
know what the hell was that about? And you know
what it was about in both cases was looking for

(06:07):
something to something that worked to make you feel better inside.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
The outside, to make something sides well.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
For me, it wasn't something from the outside to make
my insights feel different. It was about finding some technique,
some way of doing things that allowed me to begin
to access the feel good that actually lived within me.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
But doesn't that come from the outside because it's coming
from an outside source. That suggested process is coming from
an outside source, because you're going to that person to
get the tips to get the mentorship and so on.
Am I correct about that?

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Well? Yes, and.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
We're doing improv now. Yes, and that's the name.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Of my next podcast. Yes. And because we have this
idea that you know, if you're a good person, you
will know how to do.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
X, Y and Z.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
You will know how to fall in love, you will
know how to raise children, you will know how to
show up at a job. You will know how to
be a good friend. Bullshit, we don't know how to
do anything. We come in and you know, we might
have like markers in us from prior lives. If you
buy into that, we all have definite propensities when we

(07:34):
come in, but we don't know how to tire our shoes.
You have to teach children how to sleep at night,
you know, you have to teach. We have to be
taught everything, and that has to come from outside. And
the the problem arises in people who have something to

(08:02):
offer that they have taken ownership of that is as
actually something that is universal, and they just happen to
be the first person to.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Offer it to you, or they title it properly, they.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Title it properly, they say this is you know, yeah,
this is mine, this is and you do it.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
You know, they tweak it a little bit.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, exactly, and then they did it to you and
you go like, oh that actually worked. I feel different
right right, and wait I can take a breath. Wait,
and they are all people.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
You said this in your.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Your preamble of your of your your first season in
your podcast, that they have that kind of a personality
that makes you feel seen, that makes you.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
I said, that sounds pretty wid You didn't say it
like that.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
I said it better.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
I should have you be my interpreter, like the U
N Here's what I'm Here's what I mean, here's what
I'm saying. Really turned this into something golden.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Take you said it.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
You said that they have those the kind of uh
some kind of personalities that that are you know, that
that pull people in.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
I can't remember the words you use, but what.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Well one of them is wellness s grifters. That is
for sure.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Well that's I like that one.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, that's that's that's one that I'm nailing down. And
I've got that one where I'm saying that I know
that this is true. There's a lot of it out there. Yeah, yeah,
ton of wellness s grifters that propose to be your answer.
And this is what a lot of this podcast is about.
It's like to warn you to really vet people. Yeah,

(09:55):
does this really connect with something that will be good
for me? And that's a tough decision to make, by
the way, especially if you when you're in a position
where things are going so well. You might be you know,
in the throes of your maybe alcoholism, maybe drug addiction.
You might be the throes of resentment. It could be
anything that you're vulnerable, and this person's your answer. The

(10:19):
whole idea is yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Well, two things to finish the thought. When someone looks
at you, someone who clearly has something and that is
something you don't have. They seem to have some solid
base that they're standing on that you can't feel in yourself.

(10:44):
And when that person with the solid base looks at
you and offers you recognition and you are so desperate
for recognition. You don't know that, but you know that
you need to You have the need to matter in
some passions not you need to prove you need to matter.
And this person looks at you and gives you attention,

(11:04):
and in essence or in actuality says you matter. Oh,
oh my god, that's that it feels right. There's a
rightness to it, because we're meant to be happy, joys
and free, and they've given you a moment of that.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
And then there's this.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Really tricky part where in order for me to do
anything of value, anything of artistic value, anything of human.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Value, I have to.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Overcome the places in my ego that hold me back.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
And to.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
Find the way of doing that, you have to go
against something that's screaming in your ear. Don't do that,
don't do that, don't do that. You have to throw
yourself off the cliff. And someone is saying, throw yourself
off this cliff.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
I'll catch you.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
And there are things in you saying don't do it,
don't do it, and some of them are legitimate. You
really don't do it because this is the bad person
to trust. But you can't tell the difference when you're
in that state.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
When you're in that state, you can't you can't see,
you know, past well past the curtain, like the Wizard
of Oz. You can't see past that curtain. There's somebody
back there. Don't look behind the curtain. I'm the great
and powerful. Go away. Do not see what you're seeing,
And this, this is the grand illusion.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely right, absolutely a world.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
So we are in a position where do we have
the logic, do we have the reason? Do we have
the accountability to truly look past that curtain? Do we
have the courage like the like the the Cawberly Lion.
Do we have the courage to go past these fears
and really address things that were ignoring? Painting the red

(12:55):
flags green? That's what I do. Oh, they can't be
can't be that? And do I have the courage? And
the answer for me personally is yes, I do. I
want to talk to you about something about meditation that
I've been I've been in a little quandary about meditation. Ah,
and this is this is actually they're either perfect guest
for it because we can have a respectful conversation about

(13:17):
it where I'm I'm sort of challenging without ego, challenging
without agenda that I really want to know the answer
because I've had some some other thoughts on meditation, meditation
which has worked for me in the past. I also
teach guided laffitation myself, where the laughter is the pathway
to enlightenment. Oh man, I got to bring you to

(13:41):
I'm having a workshop this weekend. I've got to bring
you to one of these workshops. Really dig it. It's
such a fast pathway to that enlightenment space, that clear space.
It's it's like a bullet train. Man, It's I love
it so cool. Anyway, here's the thing with So, I
watched her lotus, my ex. I watched her dive into meditation.

(14:02):
I watched her father dive into meditation, like heavy, heavy
dive he did. And the results are you know, there's
that expression, I don't want what they have. Yeah, the
results were more self obsession. So I'm blowing back and
saying to you, well, is meditation the answer when you
don't have someone holding you accountable, when you don't have
someone holding your feet to the fire, when you don't

(14:24):
have someone reflecting back to you some pain that you
might be causing. If I go in her internal I
can internalize and justify anything. Criminals can do that all
the time they're sitting a jail stone. I'm not guilty,
So I'm wondering what your response is to that. She
also did tapping. That was her thing. She'd tap top tap, tap,
tap tap. You know, I'd be saying, can you listen

(14:46):
to me, you know, no top top tap tap tap,
and it was like abusive and it's sae with meditation. Oh,
I'm doing the Hanahna Puna Poona prayer and it's basically going,
I'm not I'm going to dismiss you and dis expect
you and allegedly do this prayer that's bringing me to enlightenment.
But I've never seen any in her case, I've never

(15:07):
seen any time when she comes out of it and goes,
I'm now ready to be present, mindful, aware, good person,
kind listening never happened out of those meditations. And she
she met her boyfriend at a meditation retreat with Joda Spencer.
So I'm wondering, you know, and then we're going to

(15:29):
get into your cults as well. What do you think
about what I'm saying now? Is is it truly the
pathway to enlightenment?

Speaker 2 (15:40):
There are myriad pathways to enlightenment.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
One of the problems is just as there are you know,
people mean a lot of different things, using the word love,
using the word God, using.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
The word meditation.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Yeah, you know, uh.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Are you are you saying? Everything gets bastardized, It gets
into the wrong hands.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
Well, anything that's that's true. But I'm also saying that
there are meditation. There are things that are presented as
meditation that are not meditation. They're uh potanal yoga, sutras

(16:30):
uh yoga. We see as just this, you know, postures,
these different awesome as yoga is actually uh, the physical
postures of it is just a very small piece of it.
The whole of yoga is about stilling the mind and.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Like uh, like.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Water that has been ruffled, if you steal the surface
of it, you can see the bottom of it. And
getting to the bottom of that water. In this metaphor,
is what true meditation is about. It's about discovering that
I am not these upsets of the mind. I am

(17:16):
not these ideas of what I am. I am not
this place where fears reside. I am not this place
where greed avarice resigns. I'm not this place where that
is transactional in nature. The truth of me is identical
with the truth of you and meditation. True meditation doesn't

(17:43):
try to shift the mind to look at things differently. Initially,
it's about getting in touch with that place that is
beyond the mind, transcendent of the mind, that is at
one with the whole of consciousness. From that place, bad
behavior doesn't arise.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yes, I've said that for years about spiritual's Latin word
for breath. Yes, is when I take a sacred pause
in any situation, contrary action takes place than what my
ego would have done.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
And if we look at things as I look at
things like, rather than this animal nature with a thinking
apparatus trying to get in touch with spirit, what I
am a spirit having the experience of this animal nature
with a thinking apparatus.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Exactly exactly right.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
And as such, it's part of the gig to get
lost in ego, to find out it doesn't work, and
then to say, okay, what else is there? And then
do the work to get in touch with consciousness underlying
the ego and begin to set aside all of these
ideas of what supple to be happening and what is what,

(19:06):
all the ideas that I have of my of my
strengths and weaknesses, of my of what I deserve or
don't deserve. You know, I'm I'm filled with ideas of
I grew up thinking that I was not worthy of life,
little one happiness, and then I got you know, I
started trying to fill myself with ideas of no, you

(19:29):
deserve happiness, you deserve life. But there's it didn't push
the other ones out. They're still there floating around. But
there's a truth that we can get in touch with them.
That I'm in touch with most of the time. That is,
that is beyond all of those thoughts. I don't have
to pick through and find the right thoughts to go

(19:50):
into a given day. I get in touch with the
truth of what I am, then point myself in the
direction of someone else's say how can I be of
service and really have a connection with and then allow
the flow of consciousness to occur between us. That's what
meditation actually brings me to. And there are practices that
are sold as or seen as meditation that are about

(20:15):
shifting the ego and the ego's way of seeing things
in order to feel more powerful, in order.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
To exactly and justify manipulations.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
And and and every.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
I told you this, and my meditation, my meditation, I
informed you, I this higher source within you informed you
that it's great to go be selfish, do whatever it takes,
don't care what people think. This is what Sometimes it's
almost like it's in the wrong hands, if not guided properly,

(20:47):
or if not or if a person isn't willing to
truly go deep in this to the point of self evaluation,
to the point of of maybe making amends or something like,
to that effect is really breaking it down to that.
That's the whole thing I'm talking about. In this guidance
and guided meditation. Is there a guidance to that system,

(21:11):
that guidance system that says, Oh, I'm going to take
contrary action when I come out of this meditation, I'm
going to actually help heal people. I'm going to go
be of service to people. I'm going to make amends.
I'm going to apologize. I haven't seen that take place,
at least in the case of Lotus, who does a
lot of meditating. I've not seen it once. It's just

(21:32):
it seems like, oh, I'm going to go in there
for more justification because I'm doing this for me, and
I'm going I'm getting freedom and all of those things,
those buzzwords that she's been taken to by by the leader.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
And there are people I know, I know a cat
from Ricia Kesh who's like becoming a.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
You know, like a.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Well known teach sure who The first time I met him,
I looked at him and I smiled and nodded, and
he just looked at me, and I realized, you know,
he didn't, he did not. He never smiled at me.
And he's a very smiley guy. And it's because I
saw him for who he is, and who is as

(22:21):
someone who you know, uses the power that he has
found to enrich himself h. Monetarily, uh sexually, you know,
in terms of status. H.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
There's a yes, power can be misused, and the it's
we can't. We can't. It's not meditation that is the problem.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Here, right, It's there's the difference.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's people who.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Are either sociopaths and don't care what happens because of
their behavior. People who are so terrified that they have
to take care of themselves at the expense of others
and have rationalized it for themselves.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
And these people it's like they give it a bad name,
you know, they.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
They give they give spiritualities exactly.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
And because listen, there's a there's another documentary. I love
these documentaries about calls the bi I mean, right, how
many people have done bickram yoga but don't really know
what's behind it, is this power hungry guy who's abusive
and everything else. And now the people have come out.
But in the meantime, while you're in it, while these
people are in it, they're not thinking this. They're thinking

(23:53):
this as their savior. They feel fantastic, and he's guiding
them to that place. That's what's going on with Lotus
with ok is she she's oh, there's my answer, there's
my there's my freedom, literally using the word freedom and
sovereign freedom and golden cages and all this kind of stuff.
This language.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Well, now, let's let's take a step back and make this,
this a little more universal, because here's here's.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
This is not okay.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
I'm going to make a statement about the capitalist system.
And this does not mean that I think that money
doesn't matter, because it absolutely matters. And it doesn't mean
that I'm gonna that I'm that I don't think people should.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Care about money.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
But there is a bill of goods that's been sold
to us that if we do X, Y and Z
and have this and this and this, we will be
happy and known in the history of our culture or
the world, has ever done this, this, and this and
become happy. It doesn't come from out here. But that's

(24:57):
a system that we're sold, just as spiritual system is
sold to us. That system is sold to us, and
we go and we do it, and we do it
as full as we can, and we actually some of
us succeed very much at it and it doesn't change
anything in here. And then someone comes along and drop

(25:19):
something on you and suddenly you feel better.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
That's a real that's.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
A real challenge to make sense of inside exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
You know, well, it's a challenge for me as the
observers sometimes because I'm looking at this, I'm looking at
these different programs if you will. You know, there's yoga,
there's tapping, there's meditation, and I've been on the other
side of toxicity from people who do participate in those things. Yeah,

(25:54):
alan On's another one. I've I've run into people, run
into people who dealt with a lot of people, almost
like a badge of I'm an alan On, I work
an allan On program and you don't. So therefore, end
of argument, I win.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
Because as a cudgel, Yeah, exactly, it's a cudgel.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Uh, It's I've seen it happen and it's laughable sometimes
and it's like it's a conflict other times where I
have to question myself are they correct and saying they
go to alan On. Here's the difference to me, if
I hear an experience that you have had of some

(26:33):
sort of gained wisdom, some sort of breakthrough, some sort
of transformation, and literally hear the story of it, as
opposed to I'm an alan On, I meditate, I tap
whatever it is. If I hear I tapped one day
and I came out of that tapping with an apology,
with issuing Maya Kulpa, and I had an amazing discovery.
I know personally, I share a story about somebody doing

(26:54):
an intervention on my ego and I file for divorce
from my ego. That day. Someone did a little intervention
to me. Some higher source told me file the papers.
That was the voice that was inside of me. And
I tell the story because it worked, right. It worked
every single time I'm up against my ego, I let

(27:17):
it go. I surrender. The victories happen the count and
I've loads of stories about it. But I'm not going
to people and going here's what you need to do, right,
you know, here's here's what I do. You know, here's
what I think you should do. That's what I did.
Now what you get out of it? Yeah, I'm powerless
over that. And it's great, you know, we share our
experience strength and whole. And some ninety percent of the

(27:41):
people are going, I don't care, I don't believe you.
Does it matter though.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Well, there's I I think that there is a complete
lack of.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
There is. People are without hope because they are feeling.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
The desperation of aging, of loneliness, of not being able
to get ahead of the epe ball with work of nothing.
They don't see anything on the horizon that offers them
the idea that it's going to get better, and that
better is going to bring me along. And the church,

(28:36):
the religious system of our culture, has been progressively falling
apart because of all sorts of bad behavior, there of
course abusive power. So we have people who are desperate
for meaning and desperate, desperately looking for something that promises

(28:58):
they will feel better if they do this, and we
can't just keep you know, blaming the people who are
acting out of that place or taking advantage of others.
We can blame them. We can blame those who are
taking advantage of others out of who are in that desperation.

(29:19):
But I really want to recognize for myself and for
others that it's it is. This world is not for
the faint of heart. There is no bypassing sorrow. There's
no bypassing pain. There's no bypassing the need for sweat

(29:44):
and guts.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
And grit exactly. And the avoidance of pain is worse
than the pain. Let's take one pause for one second. Here,
my son is walking in. Jackson, come on in, this
is my friend. Jeff. Hey, Jackie, Jackson, I have to
you have to take the phone. There's something's blowing up
about our fantasy. These guys are going back and forth.
And by the way, Jeff, I'm feeling their anger. There's

(30:07):
something going on. Just say it's Jackson Craig's son and
get into some of these it's that one, that one,
that one, Okay, and I'm gonna dismiss you and get
back to this podcast. It's so funny. It's funny how
representative that is is. Like I'm feeling this anger. I
was like I would see that. It's like literally a barrage.
Since we started of text messages over this trade that

(30:29):
I wanted to make in fantasy. So I'm in another cult.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
This is fantasy football.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
I'm in fantasy football cult. It's like, but in this case,
there there are no leaders, which is fantastic to me. Great,
and that is the definition of a cult to me,
if you're going to separate what it is. And I
know you've had experiences with two different leaders.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
By the way, people don't talk about this. There was
a cult going on with a big acting teacher back
in the day. Well that's all I would ever hear.
And then they have these vulnerable students that come from
all over the country and see, take this great acting class,
and this is going to lead to their career. Very

(31:12):
manipulative from what I heard, very very manipulative. I bet
you know who I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
No, well, I I uh, it's somebody.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
That you idolize.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
No no, no, no, no, you took.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
There are a couple of people who spring to mind, is
there really Okay, yeah, this one is.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
I'm almost sure you would know who it is. This
one is in a cult that a lot of people
know about.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah that much? Okay, Yeah, that was one of the
ones that sprang to mind.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, yes, And if you took it, you had to
go through this and you know, uh, they brought the
system that from that cult into the acting. So now
it's a cult. Now now you're this acting cult along
with the cult of this kind of religious thing, and
it's power manipulation, and you're off bring people something they

(32:01):
can't find themselves, and that would be a career in
this case, that would be a better actor, that would
be casting in something. It's this desperation, especially in our business.
By the way, you and I have done very well. Yes,
all things considered, millions of people in the world is
probably millions of people even want to be an actor
or on television. You and I have been on hundreds

(32:23):
of shows. It's amazing. He's gut. We come from nothing.
We weren't granted this. But I think I'm reflecting this
to you. What I would offer to you is one
of the reasons you got You and I have both
done very well in our lives is because we're humble
enough to let go of ego and to understand that

(32:46):
it's not about empowering someone else. It's not about the
outsides filling my insides. It's really about I'm going to
keep getting better, and that's what I present and bring
everywhere I go.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
I'm going to keep getting better. That's that is so huge,
the idea that there's no end.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
You get to.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
That's right, there's no You can win an Oscar and
literally not even be invited to go into the onder
the red carpet the next year. That's how fast and
fickle we are in a society. Yeah, and by the way,
you and I have been there. The loneliest night of
my life is when I won the top award you
can win as a comedian. Is the loneliest night of
my life? Is that crazy? On ABC, I'm presented, There's

(33:32):
Lily Tomlin and the Great Roseanne and they handy this award.
You're the Comedian of the Year, the American Comedy Awards.
And I instantly was completely lonely, absolute fraud, im positive syndrome.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Here it is.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
I go, wait a minute, I went, I went for this.
I really wanted this award, and Jerry Seifeld won before me,
and the generals look at this, and now this is
how I feel.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
So this was I My true spiritual work began when
I got my first role in a major motion picture
and it didn't fix me no, and it helped.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
It helped you ruin you and hit your bottom, because
then you realize you go, is there is that? Is
that all? There is? Too?

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (34:29):
My god, oh there is my friend? And let's I
mean it. Really you get to that point and with
this is where the really deep spiritual and evolutions and
evolving of self. This is where the rubber hits the road.
This is where we can really get great and be
prepared for any sort of shift or anything that happens
in relationships, which, by the way, Hollywood, a lot of

(34:50):
cult going on.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
There, tell me, by the cult.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Of the cult of look what you can and be.
Look what I have literally shiny objects. It's called tinsel
Town for a reason. It's a shiny object. Yeah, follow
this lore, just like all the cults do. Follow this,
and we have your answers. We have fame for you.

(35:16):
I just saw something, Jeff today. I it just sometimes
just blows me away. I'm not exaggerating when I tell
you this. They have the new cast of Dancing with
the Stars. Do you know about this?

Speaker 3 (35:29):
No, I I think I think I read something about
one of the people.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Is a uh had a little trouble with.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
A convicted felon.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
She's going to do her dance with a bracelet on
her ankle.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
It's going to be it's gonna put glitter on it.
They're gonna they're gonna bling it up her her ankle
bracelet because she's still a felon in serving her time.
And that's who they rewarded God. And that is that's
not Hollywood. There's nothing else that will tell you what

(36:08):
Hollywood is. That is the phoniness that takes place, and
that's what to get back to this cult, that's the
Hollywood that is offered to my ex wife by that leader.
Look at us. We've got lights, we've got camera, We've
literally like, here we go. Let me do a dance
for you this week. Let me do some sort of
display of how happy I am. And you and I

(36:31):
both know in Hollywood ain't happy lot, ain't happy a lot.
It never never came from achievement in Hollywood. Never. No,
as a matter of fact, it was the opposite effect.
I just came up with that off the top of
my head. By the way, I never thought about this before.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
So well, it's and we see it in.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Society wide worldwide now in terms of the curated lives
that are shown on Instagram and Facebook, and everyone has
this smile as if you know, we see like we
see five seconds in someone's life where the rest of
the day they might be miserable, they might be angry,

(37:17):
they might be abusive, but here they're smiling. And this
is the These are the clothes they're wearing, and this
is the person that they love. And this is you know,
you could be me if you take this class, if
you send me your money, if you.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Exactly exactly all the things that I am right now, everything,
every road leads to happiness. It all leads to laughter.
It all leads to that vibration, that frequency that I
hope would be more frequent for people. And that's how

(37:52):
I have chosen to live. And this is even the
offers that I make to lotus. I must give an update.
By the way, I have a new update from Rods.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
What's happening.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
You're the first to hear this. She texted me. We
text She texted last night with an offer to discuss something,
and I was honest with her. I said, I don't
trust you. Instead of being codepending, Oh you know, seeing
the red flag, Oh here we go, seeing the green flags.
No no, no, no, no, I said I at this point,

(38:23):
I'm not ready for that because there's no trust that's
been developed. Then we got into a dialogue is how
can I build trust back? So there's my announcement. Is
she is proclaiming that she is shifting into a space
of tonight. She says she's going to offer amends. How
about that? So one of the reasons I'm telling you

(38:45):
this is that it's a new discovery. It just happened
moments ago where she actually said I will get back
to you tonight because I'm going to offer you Now.
The reason I say this is many people told me
to give up, just give up. I can't lead a
horse to water. And by the way, I'm not saying
this horle is going to drink. I don't know, but
these what it's going to be. Is it more phoniness?
I have no idea. I do know it's a progress, progress,

(39:08):
not perfection. It's just progress. And it makes me feel
better that, at least for the moment, she's hearing me
and hearing there's been damage here, and hearing my concern
about the children and addressing it for the first time
because she doesn't she literally runs and runs and runs

(39:28):
and goes to her guru and everything else. So I
will let you know what happens with this. It's a
ever never ending saga. But what I do say is,
and I wonder if you can relate to this. There
is the whole letting go thing, right, there's this surrender
letting go and you can't control people and all that
kind of stuff. But there's also something that's at play here,

(39:48):
at least in this particular case, a toxic femininity that's
going on where women are emasculating men. Not of course,
this goes for all religions. Anything is. It's not all
it's not all you. But I have noticed that in
my life and my personal experience is there's a lot
of it going on where men are being men. I'm

(40:10):
a man, and I'm showing up as a man. I'm
also showing up and saying, hey, I'm sensitive to your feelings,
all the stuff you wanted me to be. I am
all those things. I'm going to be absolutely compassionate for you.
I'm going to stand for women because of you've been
oppressed all these years. But there's the missing part is
the patriarch is then we diminish ourselves. And I'm standing

(40:31):
as a man if my children. I am a father, yes,
And as much as you're trying to disrespect me, as
much as you disrespect me, I'm not going to stand
for that. Under the guise of femininity, under the guise
of independence, under guise of of this is what these
children should see, an independent woman. And I'm gonna go
make my own money. Okay, great, but it's under the guys,

(40:54):
it's not the truth. So the truth is I've been really,
really supportive, really loving, and keep on loving no matter what.
So that's what I was going to suggest to you
or talk to you about, is is where we're in
our manhood, where it doesn't threaten, it doesn't abuse, it
doesn't control, manipulate. It's the manhood, and I think there's

(41:17):
a lot of that that's lost these days. Thoughts. I
just said a lot.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Discuss again, this is all off the top of this
from my spirit that I share with you, my friend.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
I know you connect with a lot of this, and
I'm after your wisdom as well. I want to hear
the reflection back on what I just said.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
So when you use the term patriarchy, that has negative
connotations to me.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
That's right, yes, just as.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
The term patriarchy would put me at a one down
position as well. And they I think that there are
aspects of being a man that caused me to see

(42:16):
things in a certain way and tend to approach challenges
in a certain way, just as there are aspects of
being a woman that cause them to see things in
a certain way and approach challenges in a certain way.
And my way of looking at these sorts of differences,

(42:38):
these sorts of issues is first of all again and
this is meditation. It's go to that there is a
place in meditation that I found the first time I
meditated in the form that I that I that I
teach now, there was an experience of I am here,

(43:00):
and my thoughts are over here. I am here, and
my history, my gender, my sexuality, all of that is
over here. And I am that which enlivens these ideas
of myself, and that sees the world through these ideas
of myself. But I am not these ideas of myself.

(43:22):
So when I go to that place and then look
at the world through these ideas of myself, I can't
see the antecedents of someone who has to fight in
order to be heard because of their history. Who has

(43:43):
to who ends up attacking me because of their history
with other men or or not being able to hear
what I'm saying because of their history.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
With other men.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
That's correct, and it's historical. And here's the thing, compassionate
wise get it. Absolutely get it. I even get why
she would leave the marriage. I mean I get it
on an intellectual level, even a spiritual level. I get
it because of what you're saying, because of the build
up of how man are seen about maybe the man

(44:14):
in her life, her father, whatever it is, and it
gets projected on and that I don't want to take
that on or feel guilty or defend. And that's sometimes
what I do because I'm defending for my life. Not
to quote Albert Brooks, but it's like defending my life
sometimes when you're going to attack me and I look
at the look around, I go, what the hell was that?

(44:35):
Who was that to? And here's what's interesting. I never
shared this before. When we got together for years, we
met in a totally spiritual way. Everything was about that,
what a wonderful way to live. Yeah, I remember being
in the situations I look around the room ready for
her to attack me like other women had, and she
didn't because the key to our relationship was she sees

(44:57):
me for who I truly am, and I that's not
what she dictates me to be, and reverse that as
I saw her for who she truly was, and that's
who I stand for. By the ways, I do believe
that who she truly is is love, light, and levity.
I believe that, yeah, and just gone astray because there's
these lures out there. There's demonic people out there, there's

(45:17):
evil people out there, and they are out there. They
are out there literally with an agenda. They will get you,
they will find you. It's like Liam Neeson, I will
find you and I will copy.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Her spirit there. It's it's there. They're vampires. They are vampires,
exactly right.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
And I think there's a reason why vampires. There's been
vampire movies and stories since the beginning of time, but.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
You always have to invite them in. So it's like
someone says you matter, you're beautiful, I see you, and
and they feel empty yep, and and oh, come and
tell me more, or you just invited me in, and

(46:03):
then you're screwed.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
And and people go to strangers instead of keeping it
into the family. You know, familiarity breeds contempt, It really does.
And I think that that's the problem with I think
that's a problem with people staying together, is they go,
oh geez, they've seen all my uglies. Oh my god.
I can't imagine somebody looking at my hairy ass and
thinking this is really good, this is very attractive. But

(46:25):
you know, it happens. It happens. I have no idea
how anyone, including her, we go that's oh geez, I
got I gotta have some of that hairy ass. So
but what happens is we go to strangers that don't
see the hairy ass. They don't see any of it.
They only see what they want you to see, and

(46:47):
they want to reflect back to you.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
We our relationship right now is based in what we
know about each other, the experience we had of each other,
and then this big section that is completely built inside
our minds. And most Westerners have the experience of each

(47:11):
other through that image in the mind. And you're either
more like the image in my mind than the last
time I saw you are less like it. And then
I've got to wonder, what, why is it? Why are
you not that image, whereas to really truly be with
somebody is to be with that person as an ever evolving, moving, growing,

(47:35):
expanding experience of consciousness. So, but that big vast area
in there is we're making that shit up.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, most of our.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Life, that most of what the experience we're having of
each other is made up.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Isn't it all projection too? Well, if you feel something
about someone, it's always someone that's like you, or it's
always so, and it's you're seeing yourself a part of
yourself you don't want to see. So the attacks become
an attack on yourself. Really, have you ever noticed that
gangs when they attack each other, they look alike, they

(48:14):
are alike. They're gangs of people that are a rival
gang is just like the other gang. It's not like
there's a Muslim gang against a white gang. You know,
it's self hate, which exists everywhere. So that gets projected
onto you. When somebody doesn't like me, I'm going, oh,

(48:35):
this has nothing to do with me, This has nothing
to do with me, or they're seeing me. As a
matter of fact, I just had a beautiful breakthrough with
someone who works for me. Today. Things were really tense
and she said, you're barking at me, and I knew
that I wasn't barking because I work with other people
that don't say that I'm barking. So it has to
do with the projection that was going on that she
sees me as some dad whatever. Hell, I'm not going

(48:58):
to get into the analyzation. Yeah, but if they're seeing
something that they don't want to recognize, recognize within themselves,
So I think the meditation to do to reset that.
I think that that can be a reset for that discovery.
Where I've been at meditations before, I go, oh, that's

(49:18):
only you, that's not them whatsoever. And the moses code
I am that, comma, I am, I am that. The
comma is the code I am, I am you, I
am you. I am that, I am that, I'm that,
I'm that. And when I get to that space, Oh,

(49:38):
it's glorious. It's glorious because it lets all resentments go,
because lets all of this anger go because I'm that
and I'm that, I'm that, I'm that. I recognize me
in you and you most likely recognize me you.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Absolutely is that cool.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
It's It's the way it all, It's the way it
all works absolutely. I mean we looked at it from
a different perspective, but from and we come at it
from different directions.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
But yeah, but the.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Truth is the truth, and the road ends in the
same place.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Yeah, there's only yeah, and it's for me. Well, one
thing I want to say about the the you know,
not giving up hope with Lotus is that, you know,
one of the things that I was told a long
time ago was we never discount anyone's capacity for change.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
And we do, though, don't we do.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yeah, we dismissed people all the time and say, yeah,
you'll never change, You're.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
This Repperds don't change their spots. We are programmed with
this programming, and the programming I've been getting feedback give up, No,
don't do that, you know, and I just don't. My
experience is I've watched miracles, and my experience is, don't
quit before the miracle. If I quit my mom, I
would not have an amazing relationship with my mom today,

(51:06):
and it's amazing. So therefore that's my experience. I had
to let all my ego, all of it, pride, goodbye, surrender,
and now it's complete radical acceptance. And this can happen
with everyone. Including lotus. The difficulty is it's tough to be.

(51:26):
It's tough to be having the children witness this. It's
tough for the children to be subjected to this, you know,
the kidnapping, the you know, and you worry about what
else can happen. And then I also go to the
other side of hey, don't make that happen in your
mind first, you know, don't make that manifest. So is

(51:47):
that little rub that happens?

Speaker 2 (51:49):
Here's what looks like to me, is that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
The the direction that I study the truth from says
the consciousness is primary, that each of us is a
unique experience of expression of consciousness, but that underneath that
unique expression, I am the same as you, and that

(52:20):
we're having the experience of separation in order to find
the way to.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Well, basically to love.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Yes, the separation of us pushes us apart, but that
consciousness became all of this separation in order to have
the joy of finding a way to reunite with itself
and love itself, recognize itself.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
As you said, is that amazing? How it really is? Oh?
You need is love and it's it is it is,
But I've experienced it's truth, not a concept. I've experienced
that as reality. Yeah, and it happens. I've noticed the

(53:04):
political divide that we're in the middle of right now.
That season is really up in the level of anger
and intolerance, and both people are acting like the other
ones more intolerant and more bad than the next. Let
me just keep low lighting them, and that's gonna make
me feel better. No, neither one of you are happy
that one of you are enlightened. If that's where you're

(53:25):
gonna come from, keep projecting, keep projecting, keep listing, keep listing,
keep listening, not listening anything about yourself. Let me get
in this gang. Oh, another one's gonna attack the other way.
I got someone else in my gang. I feel so
much better. But do you really are you really free?
Resentment free? At the meek showing hur at the earth.

(53:46):
That's resentment free, man. You know what I mean. I'm
better when I'm meek, then when I'm I'm powerful.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
If I'm looking through the eyes of the ego, I
will always be operating from fear.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
That's exactly where it exactly right.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Because it's all about the survival mechanism in me.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yes, and I don't think people. I don't think people
understand the word ego, I really don't. Maybe you could
explain it better that maybe in a way that people
can understand. I think people think it's an ego maniac
is just some you know, maniac, like some leader that's
boasting about themselves. I think they believe that that's all
ego is, and it's not.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
There's a there's a cat named David Hawkins who was
a psychiatrist and I believe became enlightened and who taught
about non duality, the nondual approach toward consciousness for many
years and wrote a book called Letting Go that was
really powerful, and I was actually in alcoholics anonymous for

(54:46):
over fifty years. You know, what he talks about is
he sees all of us as consciousness having an ego experience,
and the ego is the expression of our animal nature.

(55:11):
So it's driven by the needs of the animal, and
the needs of the animal.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Are survival of self first.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
That is the primary thing that this nervous system operates.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
And animals not being of service in the jungle.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
No, you no, it's it's it's it's about survival of
itself first, which means it's not going to mess with
something that is going to kill it, but it's and
it's going to but it's going to be sometimes it
means that it will eat its young. But second behind
that need to survive is the need to find its tribe,

(55:51):
to find its family.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
It's heard, it's it's village.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Yeah, which also implies the opposite, which is the need
to find its enemy. So if I'm being driven by
the need to find my people, my herd is also
I have the need to just discern, discover, and define

(56:16):
what is against me and my people. And so that's
where the other those are my enemies because they want
to take our turf, you know kind of thing. So
I'm being driven by the need to survive first, the
need to find my people and make sure they survive second,
and comfort is third. If I get those other two

(56:38):
taken care of, then I want to feel better. I
want to take a load off. I want to know that.
I want to have that feeling of being okay. And
that is how we know ourselves before we do work
to get in touch with the spirit of what we are.

(57:00):
And here's something that's really interesting that if I get
in touch with the spirit of what I am, I
know that I cannot be created nor destroyed the energy
of me, So I don't have that need for survival.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Oh that's powerful.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
And when I know myself as the truth of what
I am, I know that everyone around me is also
what I am, so that I don't have that need
to define my enemies and define my tribe. And the
ancients talk about consciousness as sat chit onanda, which is existence,
consciousness and bliss, and that bliss onanda is the very

(57:42):
nature of what I am. Is bliss and bliss is
not some kind of euphoria or ecstatic sense. It's the
sense of Oh, it's the sense of just being okay,
exactly as I am, exactly as the way things are.
So though those needs of the ego, that need to
just feel okay, is the truth of me. When I identify

(58:06):
with and align myself with the truth of me, I
feel okay, and I feel that I don't have any enemies, and.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
I feel that love is the order of the day.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
And if you don't have enemies, there's no need to defend.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
There's no need to defend. And it's like and you say,
and there's no need to stand behind my red cape
when you charge, I just get to stand aside and
go like, oh you're you're changing charging the red cape.
Tell me more about that, you know. But when I'm
identified with the individuality, your attack means that I have

(58:47):
to defend. And I stand behind the cape and you
run into me. And it's not like geez, I should
have got out of the way.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
It was like you're bad. I need you know.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
And and then then we get into the whole thing
of like, yes, all the different things that mean attack,
all the different things that mean uh, red cape, all
the different thing survival.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yeah, we believe those perceptions. We have to believe them
for our own survival because we think that we need to.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
We think that. And but none of us, very few
of us are being attacked.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
I've been you know, someone pulled a gun on me once,
you know, And and I've been in car wrecks that
were like life threatening, you know. But it's it's very
rare that we actually have predators that we're you know.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
So it's all about social and it's and it's and
it's what we bring in. It's what we bring in too.
It's how I always look at how am I accountable
for bringing this in and not only bringing it in
bringing in the resentment that's attached to it. And here's
the thing that I believe that I live by is
and I try to do this, I shouldn't say I'm
always this way. Is my defense is no better than

(01:00:00):
their offense. My defense and my defensive actions, my, my,
my comebacks, my I've never pressed, you know, enter and
you know they respond, oh wow, you're so enlightened. No,
my my defense is offensive. They're only looking at me.

(01:00:21):
I was looking. Oh you started. It doesn't matter who
started it. My defense is now offense. It's offense to
prevent myself from having more attacks.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
So so now to return to the conversation about what
the ego is. Yeah, when I get defensive, it's because
I feel that some version of me, my idea of me,
has been attacked by you. I only feel attacked if

(01:00:57):
I think that version of me has to be upheld.
And it's another way of saying it is you can
offer a fence, but I have to take a fence
in order to be offended. But if you offer a
fence and I say, ah, that's interesting, tell me more,

(01:01:17):
then that's a different conversation than you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Started at first.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
There there are ways of looking at this that allow
me to step out of the back and forth and
find the way to be loving and kind even in
the face of attack.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Which doesn't mean I let myself be run over.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Yes, well, standing this is my big one is I
just have to stand. This goes back to the man thing.
I'm gonna stand. I'm a man and I'm going to
stand in my manhood. And they talk about you know,
divine feminine. Well there's divine masculine as well. And we're
also accused of not being a divine. We're accused of

(01:02:03):
being pigs. And it's like, when I got divorced, what'd
you do? What'd you do? What'd you do? Men got
that label?

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Man?

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
I mean, we really do. We have the label of
the abusers, the attackers, the rapists, so all of those
things we have that that we're kind of up against.
And I'm sitting there going, that's not me. No, they're
saying it is, you know, and now it's going to
be defensive. But it's standing in my manhood. That's not
manhood like domination and control, just in my manhood, with

(01:02:34):
my being, with my love, light and levity, just being
that in connection with my highest source, my highest good,
my highest purpose. That is being a man to me today,
not getting over, not getting dominating, not you know, bullying
or any of that stuff. Stay there and take the

(01:02:54):
hits sometimes have the courage, but have the cur to stay.
Who I am is so important. It's part of my evolution,
my personal evolution and transformation.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
If if what you say includes the for me, my
willingness to say, I can see that you're really upset,
tell me more, then I'm right there with you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Well, that's being a man because you're being in your courage.
You're not being in fear, because if you're attacked and
you go into fear mode, you're not going to ask
them that question. You have no presence, you have no
mindfulness to be even able to to create those words.
You can't create a vibration if you're in a vibration
of fear. And part of being a man to me
is not being in fear. It's really acknowledging the false

(01:03:51):
evidence appearing real. It's going, Okay, what false evidence are
you building right now? Now? Come back to your presence,
come back to your mindfulness, come back to compact and empathy.
That is strength. There's strength in that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
I don't know that that is necessarily manhood in nature
or male in nature. I don't know that that is
uh isn't isn't some part of that just being a
human who is in touch with who has integrity, meaning

(01:04:29):
the oneness of the outside and the inside.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
I don't know the answer that. I do know that
I hear a lot about feminine, divine, feminine, and I
know that there's a search for that, and I know
that that's a reason why people are separating now, because
that is separate.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
I think that, but I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
I'm not sure what it is that people are describing
to you as divine feminine. But the it's it's just
like using ellan on as a cudgel. It's the same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
I agree, that's my point. Yeah, So whether whether these
qualities are masculine or a real man, I just know
that standing firm, like you were talking about being stepped on,
I'm just not going to be stepped on. And I
don't think that is necessarily a feminine quality or like

(01:05:21):
a Yeah, I don't think that's necessary. I have not
observed that, to be you, women have certain tendencies and
men have certain tendencies and my observation or experiences are
it's usually a man that's got to put the foot down.
I've had enough of this. I'm going to stand for
my family, protect my family with everything I have.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
Well, that's certainly your experience, absolutely, yeah, I mean that's clear,
that's very clear.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Yeah, And it's been my experience a bunch. I mean
sometimes I fought for my life and to fight for
my very life. Yeah, my wife before this was worse, worse,
I'm not kidding. It costs me over a million dollars
just to defend, just to hold on to fifty to
fifty custody. Oh god, Because here's the thing, this is

(01:06:09):
a fact. There are women out there that are using
the fact that men have been abusive. So the pendulum
went too far on the me too to oh it's
a bad date. It's you know, I'm gonna make sure
that this guy gets a bad Yelp review, you know,
I mean basically in life. But it's to the point
where there will be false allegations knowing that men are

(01:06:31):
known as the abusers.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
I had it, I had it done to me.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
You did, Yeah, well.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Sucks. It was h.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
In my fight for custody for fifty to fifty custody.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
In the filing. It was uh.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
He he once punched the wall in his anger and
put a hole in it. And he played a bad
person in movies.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Oh, man, do I identify with that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
What did I have once?

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Yeah, it was another movie thing. Oh I had my
son say the word marijuana in a movie when he
was two.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Oh my god, that's scarring for life.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
You know, it's I should have actually should be in prison.
Uh but yeah, oh yeah, they'll they'll take these things
and exaggerate them and use them, and it's just so sad.
The court system just it's it's not built for this.
It's not built for recovery. It's not built for solution.
It's not built for even higher source, higher power. God,

(01:07:48):
it's not built that way. There is this war that
goes on, and then you have to go into the
toxic mail. Sometimes or not half to, but a lot
of times you go into the toxic mail. You're gonna go, oh, no,
you're not doing that to me. I'll do this double
back to you, and I'm going to accuse you back.
But you know what, usually the men wouldn't lose that battle.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
Oh my god, I. I there was one time I
got some uh this was as we were co parenting.
I got a I got a texture, an email or
something that was just like that was just attacking me,
and I went, this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Is all none of this is true, none of that right.
And I wrote back this and this and this and this.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
And you know, and I was like, oh god, I
think I I think I finally made a point and
I got I got an email back that was like
defcon for and it was it was like it was
it taught me the lesson that I'm not good at that.
I'm not good at blowing up the other side. So

(01:08:55):
it was just never going to do that again because
I don't I know, I don't have those chops.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
I'm so relate to that. I remember I went to
this really mean lawyer and I actually said no to
him at first because he was talking about attack and going, no,
I don't want you to do that. I just want
you gonna make sure things are fair. You know, Oh,
we're gonna go, we're gonna put we're gonna say this
about her, and she's gonna do it to get me
this information. You know, I don't have that, like you said,
I don't have it in me. Yeah, And the stuff

(01:09:23):
that Lotus has done, the conniving, the backstabbing, the the disloyal,
the this this sneaking in the night, it's not in me.
I can't come back at that. I can only come
back in my own presence, my own kindness, my own compassion.
That's what I have, which is basically a feminine trade.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Allegedly, now, see I I I allegedly allegedly because this
the whole swam me that Kananda is one of the
main guy who brought like meditation and Eastern thought to America.
He was in like eighteen ninety two or three. He

(01:10:09):
came to the Chicago the World Federation of Religions or something,
you know, the world. They had a big conference there
and he's spoken and everyone's like, wait what, this is
really interesting stuff. And one of the things that he
said was this whole idea of eye and mine is
the root of all troubles. It's the problem when I

(01:10:33):
say this is mine or I need this, and looking
at things through that lens is the problem. And looking
at things not through that lens is not feminine in nature.
It's it's more about the truth of life in nature
and truth is not dog eat dog. Truth is not

(01:10:56):
the truth of life is not if you get it
a means less for me, or I have to step
over you to get to the good stuff, or I
have to fight you to death in order to feel safe.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
That's not truth, that's ego.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
That's exactly right, and there is that whole safety thing.
I just have a I have to conclude this with God.
I could go on and on with you. We should
make it a three parter. I still didn't even get
much more much into the damn cults that you're in
for God's sake, and how you got out and we
got to do it. We'll have you back on again.

(01:11:36):
I saw you on soul Boom. That's how That's what
reminded me about you and your process and how you
deepen your process into meditation and how you approach the world.
That's why I have respect for you and why I
had you on. I want to bring this to the
world of different perspectives on how to deal with conflict. Yeah,

(01:11:56):
I went to that lawyer before, I said, and I
ended up hiring him again because you go get her.
This guy turned into my enemy. I was like, it
was horrible because he turned that on to me once.
I didn't want to pay him this, you know, gouging me,
And now I'm in. I'll get you. I've got emails
to prove it. You're oh my god, I'm the worst

(01:12:16):
person in the world when I do. This is not me.
It's not my character. Keep people can paint me all
the way they want, It's just not me. And my
hope is that this, this divine presence that I really
immersed myself into, it will bring beautiful results, including this,

(01:12:38):
including this conversation, which is which went in different avenues
of who knew where it was going. Both of us
were just in the moment, expressing where we are in
the moment, having some laughs, having some inspiration, having some thoughts,
having some debate, even having some questions, some quandaries. Well,

(01:12:59):
oh Gooy's said that, I don't know if I know
about that. You know, it was kind of fun to
have that discovery with you. I hope you had fun today.

Speaker 3 (01:13:06):
It's been a delight man. Thank you, Thank you for
the conversation. No, it's really it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
Let's let's do it again, you know, or just go
or just go out for a cup of something. Where
do you live, by the way, what area, Studio city? Okay,
not too far that far?

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
All right, all right, brother, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Man, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
So.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Jeff Kober was our guest. Look him up on IMDb,
go look at all his work. He's done, and thanks
for God's sakes, he's achieved a lot, folks, but mostly
he's achieved enlightenment.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Right, yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
I love you, man, Love you, man.