Episode 17: Talking with Dani From Cult Chronicles Podcast

In this gripping crossover episode of "My Wife Joined a Cult," Craig Shoemaker joins forces with the host of Cult Chronicles to unravel his personal encounters with cult culture. From his father’s unorthodox lifestyle in the mountains of Pennsylvania to his ex-wife’s descent into multiple cults, Craig shares raw, unfiltered stories that dive deep into the psychological grip these organizations have on their followers. He reveals his theories on how cult leaders manipulate through praise, control, and shame, creating a dangerous allure that entraps the vulnerable. This episode offers a compelling exploration of the fine line between fascination and fear in the world of cults, providing listeners a unique glimpse into Craig’s own battles with the dark forces that have shaped his personal and family life.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, Craig, thank you so much for coming on Cult Chronicles.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
It is more than my pleasure because I certainly have
been a part of the cult culture, if you will,
for quite some time since my dad. Wow yeah so
and then my Alex wife. So I am very familiar
also fascinated by cults at the same time. It's almost
like a law of attraction, my drawing this in my

(00:29):
draw because I do love the cult documentaries.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's very interesting. I think that's why I started this podcast,
because I am very curious about cults and then like
what draws people to them?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, I have a new theory that has not been
on You're the first to hear this theory.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Oh I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I have not brought this up on my own podcast yet.
I have a theory on how the cult leaders do it.
I watched the The Mother The Mother is One or
whatever it's called on HBO. This woman could claim she's
God and then she has these men her gods that
were you know here. It is so they all show

(01:08):
up on this campus like some normal, normal looking people.
That's how it always happens. They always look normal, even beautiful.
These women are hot. If they weren't so messed up.
So I, uh, this is it. They praise, They praise people.
That's how they do it. So my ex wife was
praised by the leader, constantly praised, called the soul sister.

(01:35):
So this is how they do it. So what they're
not feeling at home, they might be getting it at home,
or they might not be getting at home, but what
they're getting from these people is constant praise and that
lures them in. It's a lure, and then they don't
realize it's appealing to their fragile ego. And that's how
it works. My dad did it too. He would I'll

(01:56):
give you an example. Every time I would go up
and visit him in the mountains of pennsylvani and he
had it was called Pocono Adventures on Mules. He'd take
people on mule rides and he had a harem of
women's cause he literally called his harem fourteen yes, oh yeah, yeah,
it was his harem. Yeah, and he this is how
he did it. So I would go up with my roommates.
There was Mike, Steve, Rob and me, and each time

(02:19):
we would go up to the mule farm and we
would contribute. We would do something I Remember Rob was Rob.
Rob would always do the best things right. He was
like the teacher's pet. So like the ground was frozen,
and Rob said, why don't we because they're trying to
put fence posts in? He says, why don't we make
a fire in all the places we want the fence posts.
My father said, oh, it's a great idea. Look at
you're even said it's a great idea. So every time

(02:43):
we were finished for the day, he would rate us
Rob's number ones. Do use number two. You're number three
just because you're my son, doesn't make you rank up there.
And Mike, you're out there, you're number four. Poor Mike.
Mike was never even above four. So that makes you compete,
eat for the affection and the approval of the leader.

(03:04):
So now my ex wife is now in multi level
marketing where hey, you get the praise this week because
you did all this, which the money goes up to
the leader.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Right.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Seeah, that's how it works. That's the formula. I just
figured this out. I'm gonna bring it on my podcast too.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Well, do it on your podcast too, because people would
love to hear this, because I think that's that's like
the most common question people ask right, like how did
you even get into a cult? How did you? Most
of the time people don't realize they're getting into a
cult until it's too late. And I had daniellemestenek on
and she talked about like like the cost of joining

(03:42):
and then also the cost of leaving, and so like
they join this cult because they get all this like praise,
all this happiness. It feels good. And then they're like,
oh my gosh, like, well I told him I'd follow him,
so I'm going to keep following him or her whoever.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
It's crazy then and they build in something. They build
a shame system. If you try to leave, they shame you,
humiliate you, come after you, threaten you. And that's the
other operation at.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Play well, and they take away your whole community, yes,
because not your community is.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
These people build the community. Are these people and you're
all together Now we're going to remove you from the community,
and you're going to remove yourself and how dare you?
And they shame you back into it. The first cult
that this leader took my ex wife to when we
were married was a whole other cult. That's who took
her there. She wasn't the leader. She was the co leader.
She took her there and getting out of that thing,

(04:37):
my son called it Boo group. He was really little,
used to go Booh group, Booh group because she was
always with the group. Yeah, this group, just with these
pontificating people, just on and on with theories and theories
and theories of life and business, and it's all there's
no experience that's shared. It's of success, but it's all
theories and lies and fraud and cons They don't believe that.

(05:01):
When she tried to get out, humiliated and went back
in just to that one and it admitted that she
was in a cult, finally did admit it and got
out and then then connected with her now leader. It's
just it's fascinating but also frightening, and it's also incredibly
sad to watch somebody plummet like this, a person who

(05:23):
was the greatest human being I ever met. That Your marriage, oh,
of course, we don't want to get to it. It
did not end in a normal way, that's for sure,
because cults operate in deception. They're experts at it. I
cover up intimidation and we'll get to that. Any question

(05:47):
you asked me, I've got a full story on her.
You know, my podcast has called my Wife Joined a cult,
and it is a whole. It's a It's an incredible
tale of a descent into darkness. I compare it to
Darth Vader. You know, Darth Vader once this. Remember it
was a little boy. You can't believe that that little

(06:08):
Anakin became I see the false storm sky walk up
with all that anger. You can't believe it's the same
kid going any You know, I just can't, and you
that's the same with her. I cannot believe that this
is the choice that she would make to abandon her
family to go to this other family.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
So who was she before the cults?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
I used to say that, this is very clear. I
said this nationally. I always said this. I'm a national figure,
I guess you could say. And I would always say,
she's the greatest human being I ever met. And there
wasn't even a second and third place. There was no
silver and bronze. She had all three.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
And I used to think to myself, no one could
ever not like her. I used to say that to her,
No one could ever not I cannot imagine anyone having
a problem with her. Now years later, I have at
least thirty people that email me what happened to her?
She stole from me. She just went down this really
dark path. It's it's to this day, even this morning,
I'm texting her and I'm saying, since you, since you've

(07:16):
hooked up with this I call her Broke, it's close
to her real name, this leader. You've had total losses.
There's not been one single win. But you see, you
can't speak logically to them. If they're in the cult,
you cannot speak logically, and you cannot say anything about
their leader. Oh yeah, they are just convinced that this

(07:37):
is theydify.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Their leaders put there on such a pedestal, right, and
so it's like almost like a godlike figure to them.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Exactly exactly. Oddly enough, one of the mistakes I made
is I had my wife on a pedestal. I had
her in that place where she's the greatest human being ever,
and that might have had something to do with it.
I don't know what really happened, or if it's just
mental illness, bipolar. I really don't know. She won't be
diagnosed either. That's another thing she refuses because that's like
the outside world. You see what I mean. You can't

(08:05):
go to outside sources. You have to go to the
inside sources within the structure of this toxic femininity that
they propose and these women's groups, and it's really it's
really sad. And the problem with me talking about it
that I run into is will it be regarded as
sexism or misogyny if I say it? You see what
I mean. I could share my experience and it's my

(08:27):
true experience, but it can't be put through any filter
of like an anger, which there is anger, frustration. It
can't be put through those filters because people hear it
and go, ah, he's a bitter ex husband. Therefore the
message is.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Out, but of course there's anger. How many kids do
you guys have together? She just like, abandon your whole family.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Well, we have two kids. It's fifty to fifty custody.
I have a feeling that I have no idea what
she's going to do in the case, because she's now
involved with a guy who lives ways away and I
don't know what's going on there. But I do know
she now has a pot podcast. It's a sex podcast
with her leader, yes, about about sado masochism, dominance, beating

(09:09):
as that's where you get your love and pain from pain.
And I said, please, you gotta, you gotta shut that
one down. Okay, I'm okay with all your multi level marketing.
You've been in the soap business, you've been in the
mommy minutes, you've been in all these things. This one
you got to shut down because our kids will be
embarrassed in the school yard once people find out about this.

(09:29):
And you know, when she says to me, I'm going
to live the life I want to live, that's her answer,
because that's the answer she's convinced to have with this
cult leader. It's it's beyond every time my insanity. Though
I'm insane too. We have to actually think that when
I text her any of these things, these facts that

(09:52):
she's going to text back, I'm ready for my epiphany.
I'm ready to do a self inventory. I'm ready for rehabilitation,
which she promised she would do the kids. She promised
the kids she would go to rehab.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
What does she need rehab for? If you don't mind
me asking.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Well, that's the thing is that's unfortunately it sounds where
it's unfortunately there's no chemicals involved, although she did do
medicine journeys, you know, with plant medicine, which but that
might be a good thing, but the person who did
the journey, her shaman, was not a real shaman. Listen
to this one. She goes and does that with Broke,

(10:28):
her leader twice. Broke gets commissioned on that. Then Broke
gets commissioned on the one that the shaman is, all
of a sudden, the coach. So I paid nine thousand
dollars to this coach that I never met or knew
anything about. And she goes, I've made all the money
in the family, so just nine thousand dollars. Boom, She's
a coach all of a sudden. So that's the insanity.

(10:53):
But my insanity is thinking that she's going to someday
go yeah, I've had it, I'm out, which I have
watched her do. She sort of got into another one.
She was in this other thing that I encouraged her
to go to. By the way, I encouraged to go
to this thing that I had done before, this education thing,
and I will i'll name it. I won't name it.

(11:14):
But she got involved in We're going, Oh good, she's
gonna be free of Broke and get into this and
then she got out, and I saw them act like
a cult, trying to keep her in and humiliate her
and shame her. I watched her do it. She finally
got strong and goes, I'm out in front of us
because we actually asked her. All of a sudden, she's
focusing on all this and these people she's building. She's

(11:36):
making collages of these people that she had just met,
like these were her loves. Yeah, that's the gang mentality.
She's making a collage. I'm gonna make a collage of
your damn husband. Bring it here, Bring it here, Bring
it to your family. All these hours spent listening parties
and all that, they're convinced that this is their answer,
and these are there. They have love right in front

(11:58):
of them. And I guess take it some mental issue.
Whatever it is, something that's passed down through generations. I
don't know the answer. I have theories.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
So so is this leader. Does she have like a
bunch of other people that are following her the way
your wife is?

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Well, I had a husband reach out to me and
said that she convinced his wife to leave him, and
she did so. He reached out to me. She convinces
mamas to get their sovereign freedom, that's her quote, and
get out of your golden cage. I had my wife
in a golden cage. That's what she called it. She
literally I caught her crying in the other room. She

(12:36):
moved into another room, by the way, when we were married,
and I caught her crying her and she goes, I said,
what's wrong? She got a middle golden cage.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
What does that mean? A golden cage.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
I guess it's supposed to mean. See, a lot of
this is like old school, like mad men type of stuff,
like I had her. You know, here you go woman,
you know, and and here I'll make sure you have
a golden cage that is lined with whatever you want
it to be. You know, I live in a nice
neighborhood and all that stuff. And that's the golden cage.

(13:10):
That she's in a cage. And she needed her sovereign freedom.
That's what she was convinced that she didn't have. And
I will tell you one hundred percent she had that.
And I remember one of the sad things when I
read I went, I poked my nose over at the
at Broke's page and she said, there's a husband out
there that blames me for his victim much. This is

(13:31):
what she says, right, And then I read this and
somebody goes, my my ex wife, She goes, she didn't
leave that marriage. She escaped and she literally thought that
she was hold on it. I just pressed the achille.
I pressed the wrong button. I'm going to call you,
call you back. I pressed the I wanted to press

(13:51):
the ignore or whatever. That's actually my that's actually you
can leave it. And that's my spiritual guide. Oh my god,
this guy is amazing. He keeps me high vibration. It's
the only way to defeat the darkness is to be
a Jedi master. So much darkness to bring it back

(14:11):
to that that metaphor that it's it's a it's a
beautiful it's one of it's our favorite film, me and
Nick children. But it so represents life. You know. The
Force is like God, higher power, whatever you want to
call it. That's within us. And then the darkness, the
sith Lord, the people like Broke will take the vulnerable away,

(14:33):
especially vulnerable because Anakin's parents were killed. Mom was killed.
Now there's anger. I will help you with your anger.
I will help you with your anger. It's my sith lord,
ooh anger, you have force.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Force is not working with you today.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
So uh, you can tell. I love Star Wars. But
there is so much symbolism in that movie. And I
never knew it at the time. You know, when I'm
watching this and when I'm a kid, I'm not going, oh,
there's so much symbolism here. I'm just going, oh, this
is really cool. But now I get it that people
are brought into dark force, the force, this other thing,

(15:17):
this evil that's within people. I don't think people are
born evil. I really don't. All of them. You can
name Hitler whoever you want, not born evil. Even when
I coach, I tell people you are born love, light,
and levity. We're born that that's what we wish to be.
Our potency wishes to be revealed, our love, our laughter,

(15:37):
our light wishes to come out. But then other people
grab a hold of you in your most vulnerable moments.
And that's why I go to this guy as a coach.
He keeps my vibration high so that I can draw in,
draw in better moments, better more epiphanies, more love. I

(15:59):
can draw that in as opposed to my reactions to
her become exactly what she wants and she becomes the
victim and it's all justified, so you see, and then
I become justified my reactions. And it's tough to be
on the other side of a cult, it really is,
because you're just you're watching this and then just they

(16:23):
think you're the bad person, You're the evil one that's
not allowing them to be free and who they are.
And I get it. I mean I get it all.
You know, I'm a very compassionate EmPATH, so I get
it all, and I feel the feelings, but I also
feel it's the bad. There's about being an mpath. I
always know when people are lying, and that's a real

(16:45):
threat to liars.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Oh yeah, especially compulsive liars.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yes, I she lies as easily as she breathes. Now
it's that bad. This is this beautiful woman. We brought
these children and by the way, amazing children. They are
top notch children. I have no idea how they got
this way. I mean top notch. That my son is
so good to his sister. It's almost like they both

(17:12):
know what they went through with their mom, and they're
not going to attack their mom. They're not going to like,
yeah exactly, and they're going to gravitate towards that and
not just you know, kind of ruffle the feathers at all.
And they also watch her. She's very abusive, she's a bully.
She does it like a hippie, though she does know
where's the sunshine And meanwhile, just control the manipulation, doesn't listen.

(17:35):
They tried to share their feelings but did an intervention.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
On her, Oh dear lord, and it didn't work.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
It was obviously not because he or she, like, you know, this.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Is a year ago. I made the mistake of flying
her friend out here, who is a complete and I
just didn't put to it. I was so out of it.
I didn't couldn't put two and two together. This is
another absolute cult type idiot, like a complete idiot, and
I just saw it. I just saw it coming. But
I said, I'm going to give it a shot because

(18:04):
that's someone she will trust. So my theory was good.
And we go to this park with the kids. Meanwhile,
the woman's I got of her mind too. She's having
the kids do legos and invites my ex over to
do legos with us, and we build like what the
family looks like with legos I'm just going, oh, Craig,
what did you do? What did you do?

Speaker 1 (18:25):
You're trying to do anything to get her to like see.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, exactly exactly, So I fly her out, who's definitely
has a cult mentality. I remember I should again again.
You're gonna freak when you hear this. I remember when
we first got together and this woman was her one
of her best friends, and the woman had a baby
and told my was it my girlfriend at the time,

(18:50):
maybe my wife at the time, that she wanted to
drown her baby. Yeah, that's what she said.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Oh my gosh, you don't know this about me, Craig.
I have ten month old baby. I just had a baby,
and I have a three year old at home. Oh
it's like that makes me want to murder somebody. I can't.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
There's the irony is like I hate people who hate
you know what I mean? Like, this is what we
go through. But that's that's the demons, and that's the
dark side calling us. Yeah, it's calling us to that.
And I've got to be steady and still and be
a Jedi master. Jedi master doesn't give into anything unless
you become anakin sweet and so I have got to

(19:34):
stay this way, and my son is this way fifteen
years old. He's been a master all this time, never angry,
treats his sister with such respect. He's amazing with his sister,
which is unbelievable. I can't imagine any other child treating
a ten year old sister, a precocious, funny sister, in

(19:54):
the way he treats her with such safety respect. Like
I'll try to watch it. I'll try to put an
RRA move R rated movie on. He stops me. He says,
she's watching dad. She can't watch an R rated movie.
She could.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Do You think that he's like that because he knows
that his mom is like not fully being the parent,
so he stepped into that parent role for her. Like
when he's not.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
With you, no, always no with me and without me,
he's this way. He is just a really great friend
to her. He plays with her, he laughs with her,
and there are two like peas in a pod, like
and she talks for him like it's his lawyer. Like
I'll say, do you clean your room? She goes, he
didn't clean it because he didn't have time. I didn't
ask you, and I have a lazy I'm looking right at

(20:40):
him that's what she does. She's his attorney. It's it's
hilarious the two of them, and they gang up on
me a little bit, you know, in a fun way,
but they really are so close good because they have
to protect one another because there's some day that I
might not be here. And he's an old soul and
I think that's what guides him is He's got this
old soul, great human being person. He just is so sweet.

(21:04):
He's what she was before, my ex wife. That's what's
funny that he's really much more, you know, calm than
I am. I'm from Philadelphia. I've got some gruff to me.
Somebody who works for me says that I bark somewhere whatever,
so but I am aware enough to go, Okay, I'm
not going to bark or be conscious of it and
all that kind of stuff. It's how I grow and transform.

(21:24):
And this has been a very transformative journey for me.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
And you have to grow and transform. You have to
do those things to continue to like move forward in
your life. You can't just stay where.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
You are, no, but some people do.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Some people do.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Not only did they not go forward, they go back
into the darkness.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
They go backwards, did something fears, I'm sorry, did something
traumatic or like, I don't know, like did something trigger
this for her? Like was she going through like a
hard time? What was happening there?

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yes, And that's just just opinion. I always try to
come from experience, but I do have experience with this
opinion she had when we met. We met at a
spiritual center of all places, which is all about big
g you know, it's all about the higher power God
what everyonet to call it. It's all about that. That's

(22:18):
your solution, that's your life. And by the way, when
you do that, yeah, we stop going. Though. That was
a disappointment and one of my regrets. So as a
matter of fact, this guy was just calling me my
guide is from there, and I went back to him,
and she respects him too, And when we're trying to
work things out, we went to him. And then she

(22:38):
runs away because the demons pull her away. The dark
side pulls that away. They don't want any interest in
upper vibration, higher power, higher source whatever. They are threatened
by it. It's also like Wizard of Oz is like
they wanted to you ever see the Wizard of Oz? Yep,
she wanted the shoes She coveted the shoes the wicked witch,
because the shoes are your shine. People wish to take

(23:00):
away or shine glisten. That's what the whole goal is
is like I don't want other people to glisten because
I can't. I still live in this fear. So we
met there, and the reason she was there, I had
a reason because I was dealing with my other wife
at the time and that was a nightmare. Also, I
really draw them in, and I really it's amazing. I

(23:23):
would actually say almost worse. Almost, yeah, actually worse, believe
it or not even worse than having That's how bad
that one went. And I was trying to work it
out spiritually rather than seeing if I can control it
or make it to happen. I was trying to make
that marriage work. And we met as friends, and she
was in there for her reason. You know what her

(23:43):
reason was. Two brothers committed suicide within three weeks of
one another.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Oh my goodness, exactly. That'll break a person.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Exactly, and she never dealt with it. She went to
this false prophet and that's where she went with her
energy and her life. She went to this person to
fill this hole that she has not acknowledged she's very
similar to her father. Her father also, I literally went

(24:12):
to his wedding and he did a toast. He didn't
even acknowledge that he had these sons, let alone that
they were gone.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Oh I know that that's how some people cope. I
get that because, like I knew a family and they
had three kids, and the oldest had committed suicide, and
they took down every single picture. They basically like erased
his existence because that was the only way that they
could cope with it. It was like if he never existed. No, which,
like I can't understand that, because like I would put

(24:38):
up more pictures and be like, look, I had this child.
But I'm different, and I try to understand that everybody
deals with loss differently.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Like wow, now that's really interesting you said that, and
it causes me to think back. She had no pictures
of these brothers in our house either, weird none. I
don't even know what they look like as if they did.
She had some stories about the one she liked more
who lived with her for a couple of stories, but
never went to grief recovery, never really dealt with that,

(25:10):
and just went to this place of anger misplaced rage.
Of course she's going to be angry about that. And
the father. I watched him ignore in this toast that
he even had children, let alone dead, Oh my gosh, alone,
that they committed suicide within three weeks of one another,
in the same home they were brought up in. One

(25:31):
jumped and one hung himself.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Oh my, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, almost like an f you to the father.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Was it like a were they like? Was it like
because they committed suicide that they didn't want to bring
it up because I know that some people have like
shame or like that's religious.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Oh, definitely, definitely shame. Oh my god, of course.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Well, oh they're dead, but we don't want to talk
about it because they killed themselves and we don't want
to talk about that.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Again, it's just theorizing. So yeah, there's a lot of
pride in her culture, and she's inherited that. You know,
the father I shouldn't talk about the father's not fair,
but she would tell me what he would do, and
I watched what he did, and she became exactly like that.
She's extremely controlling and manipulative, filled with pride, will not

(26:20):
express regret, will not apologize, amend the behavior just continues
it no matter how many times I ask. So she's
indoctrinated with that system of being. I'm right, it's righteous.
It's going to find people that are, you know, like
he did, I guess, find people that will collude and
people that praise you. That's what you do. You find
the people that will appeal to your gigantic, narcissistic ego.

(26:44):
People throw the word narcissism around a lot these days.
You absolutely narcissists everywhere. I've been accused of being a narcissist,
which makes me laugh.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
From your ex wife.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
No, I don't think she says it. Maybe she does.
I have no idea, but I know so. I just
people thought and I would be one technically because of
what I do. I do my comedian high level, and
I made it really far and a lot of that
takes self promotion. But here's the thing is that I

(27:16):
know that I'm not. I'm extremely codependent. I'm a rescuer,
and good narcissists have no interest. As a matter of fact,
the reason I'm still standing against this tyranny is because
I want to take care of my children, not me.
I don't have an interest in being back together with
someone that stole a million dollars from me, changed our
pass wherever our bank account, ca napped the kids twice.

(27:38):
What Yeah, she kidnapped them twice.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
What does she do with them? Like, just take them
because she didn't want you to have them.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
You took them to unknown locations. Had me arrested the
one time. So I'm laying in jail and a slab
with COVID. She attacked me physically, like literally went nuts,
scratching and clawing and punching, and I pushed her off
of me. And that's enough these days, especially for the dude. Yeah,

(28:08):
cops came. They asked no questions, and they cuffed me.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
And especially if she's like pressing charges.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
And she did so, and I said, please look at
my scratches, please, and they would not do it. I'll
never forget. The cop continued to say, you can thank
oh Jay, That's all he kept saying to me. As
I was humiliating in front of my house with my
children in the house. She wasn't there because she's a thief.
In the knife, she sneak. She went to these cops
and did this and there was no investigation, no nothing.

(28:36):
They just put me on the slab all night long
with the lights on. I was just so humiliated and frustrated,
and it was just it was so disheartening. We were
married at the time, and it was absolutely it was devastating.
And then had a restraining order. So then she took
the kids to an unknown location and cut them off

(28:57):
from me. And they're very clear on this by the
way I've had them. That's the other frustration I have
is I want to get them. I have recorded them
with the truth. We have such a bad society. Our
society is not helping them mentally ill. No.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Absolutely, I was going to ask if you have your
kids in therapy because of these situations that they've been in.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Oh, listen to this. She goes, they go to therapy.
She and my son recorded me as I was driving.
He had the phone recording me as I was driving, saying, hey,
we're not going to You know this is not good.
You know what you just witnessed. I was trying to say,
you know, she's violent. I said, this is not good.

(29:39):
It's not what your parents should be doing, like something
like that. He records it and I sent it to
her to say, hey, you know, you might want to
look at what you're representing yourself to be to the children.
She sends it to the therapists who had me reported
the child services for endangering the children, for driving while talking.
Swear to God, they show up at my door. This

(30:01):
is our system that we're in. Then I had called
the cops on her because she was violent. They laughed
at me, they said, they said, hey, pal, we just
cleaned up somebody had her head smashed into the payment.
You think we're gonna worry about you and your scratches.
And they walked away. And that's the society we live in.
So I'm so frustrated I'm in this position. I want
these kids to be heard by somebody, like a mission.

(30:23):
So today I was thinking about getting somebody like a
mandated reporter to interview them, give them the questions to ask,
to make sure that it's out there that she's kidnapped
them twice. She's been violent a number of times, and
she took them. The one was an unknown airbnb that
she got as her safe house. She claimed that she
needed a safe house. She played the victim card. Now

(30:46):
what do you think you look at me? A big
You can't tell him, A big six foot two guy,
two hundred some pounds. Which one are you gonna believe
the hippie whose nickname is Lotus?

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Right, Well, in our society is built to believe when look,
I mean so pros and cons about this, right, because
there are so so many years that they just didn't
believe women. They're like, you're not being abused, you're not
being abused, and there's still some of that. But then
on the flip side, when a man is being abused,
they're like, ah, you can't be abused, you're a man.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Like, okay, well, there's no there's no halfway houses for men. No,
I don't think one exists.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
There's a domestic violists.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Like you're allowed to talk about it. It's a shame
to even talk about it, like me talking to you
about this. There's critics out there. Yes, weissy, you know,
whatever it is you know. And and here's the thing
is I talked to another woman about this. She says, yeah,
the woman. There's a group of there's a type group
of type of women that draws in the guy that
they say they want. That's what I am. I'm a

(31:43):
guy that she would want. I'm a feminist actually, and
very much into feminine causes and grow up with only mom,
you know, loving and of service and generous and fully,
you know, all of this stuff. She says. They get
what they want and then they attack, and when the
guy comes back at them, they go see, they become
the victim and they blame. That's the system that we're under.

(32:05):
That's the toxic femininity.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, that's the type of abuse as well.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Exactly, she was convinced that she was in a cage.
She was convinced that she needed to get out. And
if you have enough people convincing you, you're gonna get brainwashed.
And there's none of her left. She's completely brainwashed. She
cannot see the forest through the trees at all. She's
she's done.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
So did they kind of like start there that they're like, hey,
your husband kind of sucks. You should maybe think about
like these other things, or like do they gradually get there,
Like how do they get to the point where they're like,
you're in a golden cage and your husband's abusing you
and like he's keeping you as a prisoner and all
these things like this. That sounds nuts to me, especially,

(32:46):
it's all nuts.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
She left a great marriage, she left a great husband,
a great provider, a great loving person. She left all
of that and blew it up instantly. By the way,
we were on a vacation together back east with her
two step sons, my sons, with the ultimate vacation. I
think we covered five states. We're in a home that
I was about to bube on the Jersey Shore this

(33:08):
amazing time. We're on roller coasters. She and I are
on these mountain roller coasters just together as a duo,
literally as she was plotting this this thing that she did,
literally plotting while she's having this great time. That's how
clever they can be, and how just so deceptive. So
here we are. I have photos of it, this amazing time.

(33:31):
Weeks two weeks she came back early. Now I know
why she was plotting this thing. We moved into another house.
She moves us in completely, like here's a ladder that
you can go visit your friends, kids, all this stuff.
We're fully in this house and I go on the
road and I'm sending you actually love messages. I land,

(33:52):
I'll never forget it, it says, read your email. It
was the most devastating thing I've ever read life. I
took the kids, so she took the kids to an
unknown location, wouldn't let them speak to me. I had
to go to the school to find them, humiliate them.
She doesn't mind humiliating, embarrassing these kids, anything to get

(34:13):
what she wants, which she decided. This is what she had.
No process, by the way, no warning, no nothing. And
then I look the house that I bought before I
knew her. Then I sold it and signed the papers
over to her. Like the mutual bank account, she changed
the password and stole a million dollars, moved intto a

(34:35):
private account. This is the level that people like this
can go to. And here's the thing me talking about it,
I'm the abuser my reactions. I remember my lawyer, he goes,
this sounds misogynistic. I'm going what I said what I
was so angry with him, And that's the thing. Now
I'm angry. That's what they want. Of course, our society's

(34:58):
built on that. Our society is built on this. And
then so a man man's rights are really going down downhill,
and a white man's rights really going downhill. And this
is not to sound like a victim. That's just a fact.
It is just a fact, you know, And I get it.
All of this, I get minority rights I've been into
for a long time because it wasn't fair. It just

(35:20):
wasn't fair. Women's rights not fair. But now it swings
over the pendulum and goes way over and it gets abused.
So then it becomes I believe her, without any vetting,
without any process, I just believe her. Look at that guy.
Now back to the narcissist thing. I would look like

(35:40):
a narcissist because I'm a popular comedian, actor, producer, and
I'm very successful and all that stuff. Of course I'm
going to look like a bully narcissist. That's how I
got there. That's how it's always going to look on
the outside. And she knows this and plays it. She
plays it really well. If she ever got into a room,
like if we had a consulting, but actually we did,

(36:02):
we had mediation. She tried to look good and she
stormed out. There was another waste of money. Then way
to go to lawyers. And I've got a lawyer that
says that sounds misogynistic, because I was saying, how is
that fair? That she gets half right?

Speaker 1 (36:16):
So were other people in the cult doing these same things?
Is this like what they were teaching the women to do,
or what they are teaching the women to do. It
sounds like the cult is still going strong.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
So uh yeah, it's going strong, not strong strong. She
doesn't have that many followers. I'll tell you off air,
I'll give you her the address. You know, you can
watch some of these things that she says. I could
read some of them to you. This it started. It's
all about multi level marketing and entrepreneurship. Right, you could
be a and they call themselves freedompreneurs. They have all

(36:46):
these buzzwords that just keep them in. It just keeps
them around, It keeps them engaged. It's a wow, freedom pneur.
Soul sister, my soul sister. And that's how they do it.
It's a manipulative thing. And these are vulnerable. Look, I
get why she's vulnerable. Who wants the identity of just

(37:06):
the mom of children and and just you know, relying
on a breadwinner father and husband? You know, who wants
that menopause? All those things she hit right, I get it,
and would be in full support of something healthy as
a reaction. This was the reaction though, So I'm going

(37:26):
to empower this woman. They literally had listening parties for hours.
They were called listening parties, and it was only this
woman pontificating. But you couldn't feedback. Or she would allow
my ex wife to pontificate, but no feedback. I don't
the world do you not get feedback?

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Right?

Speaker 2 (37:45):
It sounds like you're just justifying crimes, which she's now
a criminal, Just justify the crimes, don't feedback. Might want
to look at that. This is how they operate.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Well, I'm not trying to bring you down. They're trying
to build you up, right, like exactly, Yeah, yeah, back's
really important to you need that to get better, to
be accountable.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, this is my jam. I mean I'm accountable all
the time. One of the best things I ever did
was I made amends to her after the divorce, and
it was amazing. For a few days, the kids got
to see that it was their best days of their lives.
They couldn't believe it because I did full on Maya Kulpa,
full on my responsibility, full on and that one zinger,

(38:26):
thinking that it would allow her to get to that
space of healing herself, and it did for a second,
but then then she goes back and I think that
woman shames her. If she ever even says I met
with my husband and my ex husband or anything like that,
I think she gets shamed and she's afraid of her.
It seems that way.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
It's like the crabs in the bucket metaphor have you
heard that metaphor? Tell me so, if you have like
one crab in a bucket, he'll get out, right. But
if you have a bunch of crabs in a bucket,
one crab trying to get out, the other crabs will
pull that crab back into that bucket, like they will
never let a crab get out. And so like if
she she like sees the light right and she comes
and you're like, it's all my fault. You're right, I

(39:09):
fucked up, And then she goes back to her what
she probably thinks is her mentor her like this person
in her life that she should she's idolizing, and she's like, no, like,
fuck that guy. He's he's an asshole. He's doing all
these bad things. You're just he's brainwashing.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
You exactly, And so are the pins, and so are
the people that are actually saying something to her, like
I have. I've sent her thirty different people. It's say
she's in a cult. Thirty people that say she ripped
them off. Nothing gets through because those are all wrong people.
According to the cult leader. She cannot see her cult

(39:47):
leader in any other way except for this. Do I
what's that she's like on drugs? Oh? Yeah, it's like
a drug. I think you asked me before, what would
she go to rehab for you? I didn't even know
to h that's the problem. Is I wish that she
was addicted to a drug or alcohol because they could say, oh,
go get I would say probably narcissism, because it's malignant narcissism.

(40:09):
Anybody they can live like this and just think nothing
about the consequences, nothing, not even a breath of thinking
about consequences.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Seems like a mental health facility exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
I mean the old days, they put you in a
straight jacket, right. Well, but I always wonder even how
that happens, like what sort of thing happens. I try
to go to her friends and relatives. As a matter
of fact, I one of my intentions of the podcast
is I'll tell you that I'll tell the truth out there, right.
And here's the thing that I would challenge anyone. I've

(40:41):
got receipts, So don't try to tell me that this
is just some bitter ex husband or whatever it is. Now,
I got the receipts. I have all the proof in
the world, video proof, audio proof, kid witnesses proof. I've
got all the proof.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
When you have other husbands coming to you telling you, like,
my wife's going through this too.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Now what Yeah, to find an email. This is a
couple of years ago, he said, Yeah, she had the
same I gotta find him. I'd like to have him
on my podcast because he suffered for it as well.
He didn't have kids, though, I got we have young kids.
She took their lives and blew it up. She kidnapped
them that night and took them away, and they're going,
what in the world just happened? You imagine you're that age,

(41:20):
you know, eight at the time, an eight year old girl.
You love your dad. You watch this loving dad, you
watch this mother abuse him, and then take you away
to a safe house, which she had one of the
other fathers. I read this text exchange she had. He says, babe,
I'll help you out, get you away from him. She

(41:40):
put it out there that she needed to escape and
get to a safe house. She got two different safe houses,
that's what she called them. And was it true? One
hundred percent not true. The only thing that I am
a threat of is just telling you the truth. That's
my biggest threat.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
So these other men that are in her life, like
obviously this coll isn't saying like all men are bad,
because there's other men in her life. So are they
part a part of the colt as well?

Speaker 2 (42:09):
No, here's here's I have a theorem and that. So
I'm glad you're talking about this because this will inspire
me to do my own podcast, or maybe I'll just
broadcast this as my podcast.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
I'll send it over you can have it.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
That'd be great. Yeah, it's these are really great questions
regarding man hate. Because now broke, let me tell you
what she did to her ex husband, who I know, Yeah,
tell me that guy, really nice guy. So they go
away on a freedom preneur trip over in Australia. Here
I am watching the kids. Thank you so much. You
would always thank me for being this amazing husband, paid

(42:41):
for everything, all that kind of stuff supportive, took time
off of work so she could go to Australia and
find her freedom. Preneurship. They went and they by the way,
I had to watch the kids on other weekends and
take off time of my work because I work on weekends.
Because she would learn a dance, she would drive three
hundred miles to be with the learning a dance. Talking

(43:02):
about narcissisms. What in the world, I don't think Mark
Cuban is learning a dance to become a successful entrepreneur,
you know. I mean, I've never seen one entrepreneur do
it the way they do it.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Are they getting like TikTok famous or what's happening there?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
No, no, no, it's like no, it wasn't even for TikTok.
It was for this convention that they were having, and
you know about the system that they're in, and yeah,
this new product that they have that they discovered, it's
going to change the world and all that kind of stuff.
And there they are, and this woman writes on her
social media she's posing, She's always posing half naked, This

(43:36):
inner fifties woman looks like it's an OnlyFans account. Oh
Man bragging about constantly bragging about her sexual escapades, her freedom,
all these things. She says, I had a one night stand,
like she's cheated on her husband and I loved it.
I snuck out. This is when she's with my in

(43:58):
Australia with my wife. The time I snuck out of
four in the morning and this man took me into
He showed me the awesome power of I'm just unbelievable,
like you're reading like a romance novel. He took me
into his arms and all this, and she says this
for her children to read and her husband to read.

(44:18):
And I said something to my wife at the time.
I said, this isn't nice. Right, She goes, and she'll
never forget it. She defend her. She goes, Oh, the
kid's not gonna read social media posts.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
That's not true.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
But if they don't, the parents do. And then the
kids hear them in the car talking about these nuts.
She doesn't think like that because she's so in love
with this guru. So now she starts posting the exact
same way with the capital letters the explanation points. Come on,
Mama's calls him, Mama's come on, you can do this too,
you can get your freedom. So then she does this

(44:51):
whole freedom thing. She went away, I'm a homeschooling mom
and I went away. Every pimple that she ever pops,
she has to s share it and it changes. So
then it changes into I don't like to use his name,
but I'll use a code name, Meet Rundell. I'll never
forget that day she goes Meet Rundele, Like people are

(45:12):
just sitting there going, I wonder what she's up to next?
And now introducing him. There she is with this guy,
both without shirts on and just say meet Rundele. And
it talks about the dominance And I know BDSM, which
is you know, bondage sandomasochism and all that. Now she
knows about that, and she's here to teach women how

(45:33):
to have orgasms because my sex life was. You know
what I want to say to her and my ex wife,
all this stuff that you're promoting, why don't you try
it within the structure and the construct of your marriage.
Try it. See what your partner says, the one you betrothed,
the one you've had vows with, the one you committed to.

(45:55):
Try commitment first before you go to all of these
other alternative believe in them. Then she would believe in
anything that she did. First of all, Broke believed it.
And then my ex wife believed every word that would
come out of this woman's mouth, and it would change
all the time, just pontificating. It's called to me, it's

(46:15):
called justifying. She justifies her crimes, and her one child
ended up not talking to her for a year. That's
the humiliation. And then she then once he comes back,
she here, she posts here, he is that, you know,
this smiling face, wanting the whole image to be out there.
And they're all about their image. So now my ex
wife copies literally the exact style with the same emojis,

(46:40):
same capital letters, same exclamation points, the exact same posts
of Look who I am should be, Look who I
want you to believe that I am posting being in
a bed of money, Look what I have.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
I was gonna I was gonna ask, like, because this
is a business, right, like a business quote quote unquote,
So does she actually make money in this? No business?

Speaker 2 (47:11):
I actually said to her. She says, I we have
we build wealth for mama's out there right right. It's
always got women, right, That's why you're back to the
The man thing is, it's a complete disrespect of men
unless the man serves the purpose. So Rundel serves a
purpose alleged. I guess my ex wife's boyfriend serves a
purpose in Colorado. He must serve a purpose. I guess

(47:32):
the new purposes. He's dominating her with whips and chains
or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Which how is that feminine?

Speaker 2 (47:38):
She's never ever mentioned it once when we were together,
ever pain If anything, she said it hurt my my
big she said that that would hurt sometimes, right, So
that's so weird to me when I now hear you
want to be hurt and that's your love, that's your
that's your pleasure. So it's all odd to me. The

(47:59):
whole whole fall off the cliff is just where in
the hell did this happen? How did this happen? What
in the world is inside of her brain? It might
have been fried by these medicine juries. I have no idea.
The guru was a you know, the shaman was a
fraud as well, trying to get her to do a
coaching program. It's all manipulative, manipulation. So at the top

(48:20):
of multi level marketing is always somebody right at the top,
or broke is at the top of the down line.
So she needs to make sure that these these mamas
are empowered and told how great you are. I watched
these posts. It's a joke. It's this praise pre you
beautiful girl. You go girl. If it's true, you go girl.

(48:42):
But it's not even true. This stuff is the truth,
so I said, to my accent. But she doesn't listen
to anything I says. I always propose truth to her.
I said, if it's true you're building wealth, let's redo
the let's redo the the agreement I pay you at
this point, Well, it sounds like you should be paying me.
Won't do it.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
I was gonna ask about that. How she's making money.
If she's not actually making money, does she have a
job or is it just like your is it alimony?

Speaker 2 (49:10):
She hid the job from me. I have no idea
what her job is. She claims it's this claims it's that.
I have no idea because she's so secretive as part
of who she is become. She hid money from me
during her marriage. She hid her jobs, her associates, all
of it. She wouldn't show me a business plan, just
took my money, though I've invested literally hundreds and hundreds

(49:32):
and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Being a supportive husband
and yet I get called the abuser or whatever the
tag is that women run with. So I get that
tag after doing exactly what one would want. Full support.
I supported her getting her freedom and having her own business.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Right is really important, especially like like I mentioned earlier,
I have young kids, and so you lose yourself being
a mom. Yes, get that, Like, I totally totally Why
do you think I have two podcasts? Because I lost myself.
I needed to figure it out exactly, and I did.
And my husband very supportive. He was like, you know
what you want a podcast? He like bought me a

(50:13):
fancy computer for it. He bought me a fancy Mike.
He's like, how can I help you do this thing
because you need something. Yep, that's for you.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
I totally get. I'm glad that you get it right.
And you're still married.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
I'm still married. Oh I would never divorce my husband.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yeah, well, there you go, unless you join it. Unless
unless you join a feminist, toxic feminist cult. I mean,
you know, and even be calling it toxic feminists. I
would get the label. Oh he there he goes again.
He's a sexist, he's a misogynist. These are just women
that want their freedom and no, it's not. It's the
freedom within the construct of a relationship that you vowed

(50:49):
to have and brought children into the world to have together. Yeah,
now you just blow it up on theories, theories from
a very very dark figure or a sith lord that
has taken her heart and her spirit and just sucked
it and took it hostage.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
I don't get that vibe from you though, that I
don't get that vibe. I don't feel like you're like
misogynistic at all. I feel like, oh, but my view
is on it. I feel like feminists, like the feminist
movement has gone too far. I understood the initial need
for it, but I feel like it's gone way too far.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Well, yeah, me too, to me too? Turned into a
bad date, right, a bad date as he's I'm sorry,
I had a bad date, and she said I'm gonna
go get him. And you know what, they have websites.
As a matter of fact, I'm on on a date
now and there's a website that my assistant found where
they can they can take you down. And a woman
completely lied. I'll tell you. I'm gonna tell you the

(51:45):
truth of what I said. This is a conversation. We're talking.
That sounded pretty good. You know. I met her and
I just see her photos on the day and it's
like late at night. I'm in my bed and I'm
talking to her and she says, I'm one hundred and
eighty six pounds. I said, from your photos, you don't
look like you are, right. Yeah, okay, And that might
not be the best thing in the world to say,

(52:06):
but it wasn't where she took it. She cursed me
up and down.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
You.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
I mean, she went after me to the point I'm going, whoa, whoa, whoa,
take it easy, you know, call me a sexist, a misogynist,
an abuser. And then she looks up by the way
she looks it up and it's on my record that
I had a restraining order from the ex wife, and
she goes, yeah, your abusive, visiting, abusive. That now she's
really after me. So now it's her, She's gonna take

(52:32):
me down. And this is what happens with vindictive women.
It might be vindictive, Ben, We're not that smart though,
to be honest with We're not that smart. I'm not
that clever, not that secretive. I can't do this stuff
that happens. I wouldn't know what site to go to
to talk about how bad a woman is. So had
no idea. But she went to this site and used

(52:54):
my name and said that I told her to send
me a photo of her on a scale.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
What.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah, you go what? But there's people that are gonna
believe it.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Oh and they don't know the situation right, Oh.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
No, they don't know that she completely twisted it, that
she walked into this with this built up of anger
for her whole life and it gets projected onto me.
That's when people do this projecting. Look, I'm a coach myself,
and I'm very much aware of projection where projection exists,
including myself my hypocrisies. But I'll tell you this much.

(53:29):
I stay in that high vibration to check out when
I'm being hypocritical, check out when I'm not telling the truth.
This is a self awareness that takes place. It doesn't
take place in most of society. Just go with the
It's like clickbait. So here's the clickbait he makes people
going on a scale. I think I've had women that
don't go on another date with me, they ghost me.
I think they probably go to these sites. I'm pretty sure. Well,

(53:53):
because you're married, you don't go to these sites. But
that's true out these guys, and you know, and and
they're these the sits don't exist for men. There's not
men they're going, don't go near her, you know what
I mean, just doesn't exist. But there's tons of these sites.
It's really terrible what our society is becoming. I just
want to live in love, light and levity. That's all
I want in my life. I was hoping with a partner.

(54:15):
I still hope with a partner. I still hope that
that manifests itself so these kids can see something normal
instead of seeing this absolute first they watched, well not
as much to my youngest daughter, but they watched my
ex wife before. This completely annihilate any childhood. My older

(54:35):
sons have annihilated it. Police sminer's counselors, special masters, all this, therapists, counselors,
all of this. That's what she did when she sought
revenge upon me. She took us all down. That horrible
rope cost me a million dollars. It's old on fifty
pers and custody. That's the system that we're in. We're

(54:56):
not in a man favored system. Plus the system itself.
Without being in the system, boys are going to gravitate
towards their mom because the mom is less of a disciplinarian,
easier way they're going to do the narcissist the thing
of appealing to the kid, you're the greatest, you're the greatest,
where a guy is gonna go, hey, dear omer, which

(55:19):
is a kid going to gravitate towards well?

Speaker 1 (55:21):
And I have to say my boys are both mama's boys.
Like they and that doesn't mean they don't love their dad,
but they are definitly mama's boys.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Of course they are. I just told you. Some of
the reason, yep. Some of the reason is like they
don't want to hear this crap from me. And then
my ex wife before this, she would call it abuse
if I did discipline and I never was like hitting
or but no, it gets the same category as that,
and that's how the kids see it. So then they're
gonna go, he's a narcissist, he's a control freak or

(55:49):
whatever she's bombarded them with and they get brainwashed. That's
the system that we're under. We're in a system right now.
It's really not in a good state because the men
and women's roles have changed, and then you've got frauds
that are really really in there, like this woman broke.
They're going to use that vulnerability to the best of

(56:10):
their ability so they can selfishly have their needs met.
And it's greedy and it's dark, and that's the road
she took. She took this dark and greedy road. And
I don't think there's any coming back unless some miracle occurred.
I have people saying prayers for her all the time.
But and if people go, that's not a cult, oh

(56:31):
yeah it is. And here's the other thing. You might
have had this on your podcast already. No one it's
in a cult. Ever says they're in a cult. No one.
They will never say the word. They'll say, oh, it's
my religion, it's my this. No, they're never going to
say it's a cult.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Or they justify it right, Oh yeah, like the I
did Branch Davidians, and so David Koresh would say, well,
it is a cult. But also you have to think
like Jesus had twelve disciples in that as a cult too.
So it's totally fine because in.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
The Bible, you were in the branch Davidians.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Oh, I wasn't I just did an episode on them.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Oh no, wow, I was gonna start interviewing you. No.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
I did have Kevin Jones on though, and he was
a kid and he he was like born in the
branch Davidians and so I had him on. He explained
some of the situation and it was crazy. But like
the problem is, like I go back and forth because
the people that are in the cult, they fully believe

(57:32):
whatever it is, right, Like like your wife or ex wife,
excuse me, she fully believes in broke and she believes
in this situation and she's kind of a victim in
that right. So like I love to hear like that
side of it, but also we have to look at
the side like this person is completely manipulating and taking
control over all these people and ruining their lives. Like

(57:54):
if your ex wife ever comes out of this situation,
she's gonna be like like I lost everything.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Well she lost respect to the children too. By the way,
how can you respect for a woman that embarrasses you
by taking you to an unknown location like a kidnapper?
How can you respect somebody that you watch your father
literally walk in the door and hand over checks and
then you go steal his money and change the password

(58:21):
on a bank account. How can you respect somebody when
you see a father literally flashing peace signs and saying
let's go to a peaceful place and watch their mother
strike out physically or run away in this horrible way.
I mean, it's just time and time again. How can
you respect that somebody that won't do a process or

(58:42):
show up for a therapy, a group of therapy to
make sure that you honor the vows of your marriage
and sickness and in health and your own sickness and
not take care of How can you respect somebody that
promises I will go to rehab kids, but then does
not do that, and it expects me to go. Is
what she told them? She goes he needs the rehab.
Do you respect that? And that's what she created. But

(59:03):
she'll say. What these people do is they'll say it's poisonous.
You're you're poisoning the children. I said, this is what
they're witnessing, witnessing it, and it doesn't take any poisoning.
I might remind them of something. I mean, that's where
that's when I get bad. I'll remind them. And she's
got this podcast, and can you text her and ask
her to stop it, you know, because it's not going

(59:25):
to come from me. I'm thinking, Oh, but she ignores
our son. Please mom, don't do this. Nope, she's going
to do it. That's how sick they can become. There's
such denial. And here's the part that I don't enjoy
this is this is going to come across as that's
not a brag, but it's like something I am proud of.

(59:48):
I am proud of my courage and this goes way back.
I mean I was courageous. I was kidnapped when I
was a kid and by a serial pedophile. And uh,
I've had a lot of courage in my life to
go against predators, a bullie and I stand, I stand,

(01:00:08):
I don't, I don't cave. And I did an intervention.
I've done a few interventions. I remember the one that
I did. I got on the bed with this woman
who was literally bleeding like crazy from a fall and
covered in ashes and beer cans and everything is an
afternoon intervention. Everybody else stood back, their family, the family members,

(01:00:29):
and I got in there and I said, we love you,
and I got her to go to rehab. But the
point I'm making is. I wish there are more people
that did did it that way, that had the courage
instead of going nothing I can do or I don't
want to get involved. That's the line I cannot stand.
And this includes her family friends. I tried reaching out

(01:00:51):
to them. I'm just just known as like some bitter
ex husband's trying to save his marriage, you know so.
And I have a problem in my life that I
do try to save people. I try to rescue them,
and this turns out as a matter of fact, she
lived in a tree house when I met her and
had to go to the bathroom forty yards away in
the woods. That's when I met her, and then I
remember her being in when we first got together in

(01:01:12):
my gigantic tub, which was as big as her tree house.
She was just enjoying it and listening to her and
she was in her headphones listening to Ballroom Blitz and
singing it out loud. I remember walking. I was so
proud that I was able to supply this for her,
this new life, and I just wish there were more
people that were had some bravery to confront. And one

(01:01:37):
of the reasons I do the podcast, I'm hoping that
someone's listening, and they say, I am going to confront
her find out if these things are true. I had
talked I keep telling them talk to the children. Think
I'm making up talk to the children. And then I
didn't mention this before. But the cult leader, Rundel boyfriend,
the dominant sex sex dominant guy stud he came after

(01:02:02):
me and threatened me. I have the text messages for
what to the FBI. He says, he's taken away my children.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
She have no rights to your children.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Of course he doesn't. Logically, I'm saying, there's no logic anything,
no logic. She doesn't have a right to kidnap them.
Either she doesn't have a right to be abusive or
she doesn't have it. She has no right to uh
to have caused physical harm to me. She has no
right to do that, or lie or deceived. She has
no rights to do it. It doesn't matter. They don't
talk about rights in their world. There is no there

(01:02:36):
is no rules, she said. Just yesterday, she texted me,
I will do whatever I want, live the life however
I wanted. Is it really really is that right? So
he threatened me, and he says, you're poisoning the kids.
And all that never met me. How would you know

(01:02:57):
she had him do that? She gave him the number.
He's an accomplice in a crime. It's a crime threatening
me to crime. So I'm in this position of do
I bring in the authorities, because anytime I've tried that
before at backfires because they're not skilled people to work

(01:03:18):
for child services have no skills, they're underpaid. Why would
someone want to do that? So that the underpaid people.
I've always said if I run for president, I would
fund the police. I would tie times ten so that
they have education on how to deal with mental illness,
to how to deal with conflict within marriages and espousal
abuse and all of that. That's what I would do.

(01:03:39):
Take the money that you're sending for tanks and BBS
military industrial complex, which is a bunch of crap. It's
a bunch of crap. Why why you're just paying these
people to waste your time and they're going to go
sell it somewhere else. It's not going to protect us
at all. I want to be protected right here on
our land by police that want to be police, because

(01:04:01):
they're well paid. They should be paid more than lawyers. Well,
there is have a system. The lawyers have a system
now that they're all in it. Not they all, if
anybody's listening, not they all, but so many of them
are in it together. I remember when I was at
a family I had a family law attorney. I look
down the hallway and they're laughing together, the opposing counsel

(01:04:23):
because they're friends. I'm paying for that laughter, by the way,
because it's hourly. It's a bad system. So as much
as I want to take matters into my hands, my
hope is that the village takes care of it. That's
my hope. That she has a friend.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
It says enough, right, Yo, Yeah that would be ideal.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Right, Yeah, it would be ideal.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
What advice would you give to a husband or any
family member? I guess it could be a wife too.
It could be any family member that's dealing with a
situation where like their loved one isn't a cult in
like you can't get through to them. Now, what do
you do?

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Yeah? Well, obviously my advice doesn't work. But the only
advice I do have, as far as you know, it's
like resentment is like drinking poison and hoping they die. Yeah,
is deal with your resentments? I have to healthy in
a healthy way, constantly work on my spiritual practice. I
told you the guy during the interview, he called me,

(01:05:21):
and that's what he's there for. He's there to uplift me,
to make sure I stay in that vibration because the
only thing that's going to solve anything is a true
Let's say she did have a switch one day, do
you think she wants to go back to the guy
that attacks her or she want to go back to
the guy that's loving and understanding and peaceful, a peaceful warrior.

(01:05:47):
Which do you think she would want to go back to?
Which would she be attracted to if she ever did
have an awakening? And that's what I believe is I
have to constantly pay attention to my own self awareness,
my own self care. And that's the advice I would
give anybody is make sure it really. The other thing

(01:06:09):
is I would like to get a support group myself.
I'm just throwing it out there right now. It's a
support people wonderful, I mean, it's really a support is
what we all need in a healthy way, that is,
but it's spiritually based. Is a big key for me
not be a victim, don't go blaming I'm not blaming
her for everything, you know, I blame our looking inside

(01:06:30):
of myself of how I create these things, How I
created again and again and again. That's the insanity is
I created as well? So that's that would be my
long winded suggestion.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
No, that's great, because like it's it's tough. What do
you what do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
What do you say if she ever did like wake
up and she figured out like, oh my gosh, I've
been in a cult this whole time, Like I can't
believe I did this. Would you want her to come back?
Like would you want her back? Or would you just
be like I can't anymore, Like we're just it's too much,
too much water under that bridge.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
I'm so glad you asked me the question because I
just look at if I'm answering you, I take a
sacred pause. I'm not going to just react from my head.
I'm going to take a pause on that one, and
whatever flows out of me will flow out of me.
And that's this. I don't know the answer to that.
I certainly there's so much damage that's done now, you know,

(01:07:33):
like let's say I I could go to a house
of abuse or you know, I could go to a
home at this point, you know, I mean, it really
is some of this stuff I didn't even describe that
she did. But again, I don't like being a victim.
I don't like victims. So I don't know the answer.
I do know that the person she was before like

(01:07:56):
of course, and I know what to do now as well.
What I would do in this case is really not
allow obviously, you know, go down these crazy roads of entrepreneurship,
freedompreneurship and all that kind of stuff. Get the hell
out of that, Get a legit job what she used
to have. I also admired her jobs that she did.

(01:08:16):
She was an interpreter Japanese interpreter for documentaries and films,
and she also did worked on movie sets as a
union electrician. It was really impressive. She made her own documentary.
She's really an impressive woman. And then got the kids
and then started questioning herself. I guess, questioning the marriage
that she married the right guy. I don't know. I

(01:08:38):
can't get inside of her head. And I always wonder
when the che cheating, lying, stealing. I always wonder when
that began. I do know that my son turned to
his little sister and says, you never knew mommy before
broke and I turned to both of them, I said, what
do you think is the reason for the divorce. You're
going to talk to your spouse someday. Our parents were divorced.

(01:09:00):
What are you going to tell them? Because mommy was brainwashed?
They're very clear on that. That's not me telling them.
They watched it happen. They watched her go to these
zooms for hours upon hours instead of going on dates
with their dad, or honoring their dad, or being friendly
or anything else. That's where she went. So the only
way that I would consider it. And I am still available,

(01:09:23):
my dating life is horrible, and quite frankly, again this
is just honesty. I think that there are women that
energetically do not want to be a part of this,
you know, walking into this mess. It's scary. I just
had a guest on He'll do yours, by the way,

(01:09:45):
if you want. Is the you know Lorie Valo sins
of my mother. I'm good friends, old friends with her brother.
Oh perfect, I knew the brother that was murdered as well. Yeah,
and it's just a sad tale. But the one thing
he said on my podcast it is really difficult for

(01:10:06):
me to accept. Is he kept going to people and saying,
please listen to me. He was the only one, and
they wouldn't. The mother wouldn't listen, the sister wouldn't listen.
And obviously they have two dead children now as a
result of not listening. So that's what my thing is like,
is somebody going to listen to somebody could do an
intervention on her, get her rehabilitated. She's going to have
to be reverse brainwashed. Oh yeah, he's going to take

(01:10:30):
a clinician to do this. So if she came out
of that clean and clear, I don't know, but I
do know that it just affects everybody. It's generational trauma.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
Absolutely, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
And the kids put it away. My son goes, I'm
in acceptance, you know, really, I don't even know if
I believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
I think it'll affect your kids for a long time. Unfortunately.
I know you know that, but like, like they're going
to deal with this for the rest of.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Their lives, for the rest of their lives. I keep
saying to her, I what kind of lesson do you
teach them? And disrespect me in this way that you do.
She disrespects me all the time. She'll just run out
of her room if I'm trying to talk to her.
They watch that happening. She turns into this disassociated face.
I call it the face. It's the ugliest thing you've
ever seen. I can't even believe she can do it.
Just ignore everything that I'm saying, even if it concerns

(01:11:22):
a kid. She decides she's the decider of what we
talk about, what she answers. The questions that she answers,
she only answers the ones that she's comfortable with. Today,
she texts me, she goes, I emailed you responses to
these requests I made. Here are some of the requests
I requested. As long as you're posting things on your

(01:11:44):
social media, it's all personal. Post your apology of saying
that I'm abusive. Contact my sons, your step sons, and
ask them to do a zoom for the whole family
and apologize for telling them that I'm abusive that they
run with. So these are my little requests. You sound

(01:12:05):
little right, just making repairs for damage that was done.
And the other thing I said is fill out the form.
It says how much money you make? Now you're a
real simple or have your lawyer contact me, which I've
been asking for four months. These are the little things
she goes. I responded in an email, and I wrote back,
unless you made some concession, unless you made some sort

(01:12:28):
of compromise. If that's what I'm not going to read it,
let me know. And sure enough she hasn't. So that's
what must be. More of denial, more of her twisting,
more of her turning, more of her manipulation and control.
That's what people and cults they do. They're really experts
at it. She's like an outeur at manipulation that they

(01:12:50):
have to be. It's their survivor. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
You said something earlier and it made me think. So
you said that she had all these jobs and then
she had baby.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Do you think that this is postpartum depression? Like just
really like some people never get better after they have
babies and they don't realize that they are depressed and
they never get help and they never recover from postpartum
depression exactly. Do you think that this could be some
of that?

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Absolutely? Absolutely, And the problem is it's menopause. That's a factor.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
I mean, there's a lot of facts as well.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Correct depression. And she'll go on these rants as if
she's not depressed anymore because of her sovereign freedom, because
of all these theories. Here, I am swimming, here, I
am dancing. Just I literally bought her a vanity light.
I had no idea what it's gonna be used for.
I did. I was a boorting I and she's constantly

(01:13:50):
in front of a vanity light. Here's the life I
want you to believe that I'm having right now. She
just follows broke and the same thing. Here's the life
that you can have, mom as you can have more orgasms,
more sex, have it within your marriage right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Too. But I bet your husbands want that too.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
I would love that. I'd love to give you plenty
of orgasms. And I did. I mean, you know, oh,
by the way, her being afraid of me, that's the
that's the narrative she puts out there. I have receipts
on this one too. She texted me, she says, come
make love to me in her house. I said, all right, kids,
I'll be back. So it wasn't afraid of me. She

(01:14:30):
cried her eyes out that night. I'll never forget that.
Loads of orgasms and that was the last time we
ever were intimate. That was a year end of the divorce.
And she just told me, right there, you're not afraid
of me. You're only afraid of the truth. It's all
a bunch of bs to make it look good. But
postpartum depression is a killer. Is so is mena pause?

(01:14:55):
What I keep saying is what makes you not be diagnosed?
And I'm going to tell you what makes her not
being diagnosed is the leader tells her you don't need
to do that. You don't need to do that. That's
like some other system that we're in. We're bucking the system.
We're rebels, right, And.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
She gets all that the endorphins from going back to
the leader, leader telling her what she wants.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
You go, girl, you keep your freedom. Don't you listen
to him? This is he just he's just as a
matter of fact, Rundel when her boyfriend, when he wrote me,
is all these accusations of what I was, and I'm
just saying to myself, oh my god, this is pure projection.
Turns out I found out that he beat her son
and was reported to child services. Oh my god. Yes,

(01:15:39):
So another thing I feel like there was getting restraining
orders that want these people nowhere near my children there.
But it's such a world that they live in of
their own brainwashing that they're okay, criminals live like this.
They're own death row, going I didn't do anything, or
they deserved it, or whatever it is, they justify it. Yeah,
we live in a world of that. But again, I

(01:16:00):
wish there are more courageous people that would confront we
confront these things and say you can do better than this,
and look at your children, what you're doing to them
for the rest of their lives. Are going to remember this.
Now she could look at them and go, oh, I'm done.
That would be a miracle. I'm done. And I do
think that there's some sort of I thought about this

(01:16:23):
this morning. The demons, spirit, the devil, whatever you want
to Biel's above, whatever you want to call it. I
think that it's so out there that if you call
it out, the narrative is you calling it out become
the bad one. I think there's tons of it, And

(01:16:46):
they're in charge of the media, they're in charge of
what you see in Hollywood. So you must go down
that agenda, or you're the crazy one for saying to them, no,
this is not good. There's no value to this, there's
no morals to this, is no what. But they're saying, no,
no follow us. These are the crazy ones that are

(01:17:07):
calling us out on this. That's the new narrative. That's
what's happening. Is if you say, if I say, for instance,
she's possessed by demons, I sound like a crazy person.
What do you mean demons? Because they've seen what demons
supposedly are. You see the ex or sister or whatever
it means. She's possessed by some demonic some people call
the Jezebel spirit. Whatever it is, she is possessed by

(01:17:29):
it to the to the way that there is no out.
She can't even talk to a spiritual leader that she
once liked. We went to meetings with him, and she
would just say, I'm gonna do the She would put
me on mute, just this passive aggressive thing and sit
there and just stare and she says to him, I'm
doing the hnaba pooha prayer. What's that prereta hannama pooh

(01:17:51):
a prayer? It was her excuse that she would just
be silent and not listen to me. This is in counseling.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Did broke tell her not to go counseling or not
to be in counseling with you, like, not to participate
in all that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Of course she did. Of course she did. If it
doesn't serve Broke, it's not good. Everything has to serve her.
They manipulated me into a crypto investment. But there was
BS soaps. Mommy minutes, you're at a millionaire. I'm talking
hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars that I invested
in all of these things, and I just listed it

(01:18:26):
this morning for my ex wife. I go, she has
lost led to total loss, including the loss of your family.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
Are these are little different?

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
That's not enough?

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Like different multi level marketing companies? Are they all the same?
Is she just like creating whatever out of thin air
and like, oh, this is our next adventure to be
entrepreneurs or freedompreneurs or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
Right. I have a term that someone else gave me.
This term. I love it, wellness s grifters. They're wellness
s grifters. They go around talking about wellness and spirituality
and they use it to manipulate. They act like everything's love.
Love is one is the documentary. That's what it's about.
Love literally, and here we're gonna love you. We're gonna

(01:19:08):
love you because no one else could like we could.
And that's what broke does. No one could give you love.
And we're gonna have a lot of money too, because
you're gonna be empowered and you're gonna create wealth for
other women just like you. So they have a cause.
They believe this is the cause.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Most have a cause though, right right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
Yeah, and then they all love is one. This love
is one. They did wellness drifting. They sold trinkets and
crystals and everything else to the vulnerable people that believe
this is spiritual to hold a crystal and all that
kind of stuff and tarot cards and all that. That's
what it does. That's that's what this does. And it
appeals to them and it draws them in like a
magnet because you're because they're having a tough time of life,

(01:19:51):
and everybody wants the easy way out. It's an easy
way out, actually, yeah, see, because they make it easy
by praising, by never confronting, by not asking you to
be accountable. She's not asked to be accountable. I ask
her to be accountable all the time. Ain't gonna happen,
So that's people say, is it a cult? Yes, it is,

(01:20:11):
even though it's just one person, even though it's not
called something, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
It doesn't matter. There's like characteristics to cults. She's got
the charismatic leader. So that's one of like the main
things that you need for a cult is a charismatic leader.
Check they have like an US versus them mentality.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
They have even the fact that she says, mamas, come
join me, so she's relegated to no dads follow me,
m mamas.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
They have like their own special language where they're like
like right, they have like the freedom.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Sister all this stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
Yeah, I mean they have like they're hitting check marks
left and right.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
And the check mark that I discovered today or just
after watching that document is the praise thing that's keeps
them in and the lore of money, the law of
success and all that kinds of that's what that's what
keeps them in. So these people in that cult to
love is one they sold things. They had, They had videos.
I'm afraid now to go on dates with anybody that does.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
Videos, which is everybody nowadays, right, everybody does videos at
this point.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Yeah, we live in ego culture and I look at myself,
I go, you do videos too, Who are you to say?
And then I say to himself, but yeah, but you're
a professionally been doing it for years. You're making people laugh.
You're not trying to get them in a cult. Oh
yes you are. You're trying to get them to pay
a cover charge. It's a dynamic that I deal with
and not wanting to be hypocritical and be real and
be guided, you know, by goodness, and I am. I

(01:21:45):
love making people laugh to this day. It's amazing. What
a gift to share.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
And you've been a comedian for so long, you're very
good at it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
Thank you well. I won the Comedy or American Comedy Awards,
literally the Top Award and and all these other awards,
and you know, top one hundred of all time, Top
specials of all time, Ecomedy Central. It is great. But
I always like to say, I don't want to brag,
but my best reward ever, I'm going to show it
to you right now. The wife before this, I won

(01:22:16):
the horses Ass Award at her family reunion. My Horse's Ass.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
I am very proud of this. So I've been at
this being a horse's ass for a long time two wives.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
So do you like do you make jokes about this
for your stand up?

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Working on it? I'm really working on it. I'm really
really I will be honest with you whenever this I
know I coach by the way, I was going to
talk about that too. My coaching comes from personal experience,
though I never tell somebody something that I haven't experienced.
Like I remember I was helping a guy. I also

(01:22:55):
help people with sobriety and things like that. Right, helping
this guy, And I'll never because you talked about cross dressing, right,
because I could put makeup on and it's the guy
with a mustache doing how you get cross dressed with
them big mustache sensor. I kept thinking of myself and
as much as I could say anything that I've done
in the past with drugs and alcohol, I actually said

(01:23:17):
to him, I have nothing for you. I can't identify.
I don't do that. There's nothing bad about me not
doing it, it's just so I don't want to share
with people. That's something I have not experienced. I've experienced
tremendous success with comedy, millions of dollars, millions of people,
millions of last it's it's fantastic, it's amazing. So I
don't want to coach anybody into something that's an opinion.

(01:23:40):
I want to coach them into something that they can experience,
that I've experienced, they can learn from. But I don't
know how that answers the question. The answer the question,
I can't remember what the question was.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
You're making jokes about your situation very well. I feel
like the coaching like that, you're not making jokes about it,
but you're using your situation to help other people.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
And so yes, including my podcast, my podcast, I have
all these great podcasts with Oscar winners everything, they don't
do anything. This one is the more popular podcast than
any one I've ever done. We're huge in India, Canada.
I can't even believe this. And I have no marketing yet, nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
And it just thefe My wife is an a whole one.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
My wife joined a cult. My wife joined the cult
is becoming big. And I like to do this in
my life as I like to be of service. I'm
of service to people, and by sharing this stuff, which
is ugly, I'm being of service. Now back to the
question in my stand up, this I coach, this is
for free. People have a hard time of the comedian

(01:24:42):
if they still feel the comedian is in pain. So
if I say I'm divorced at this point the start,
they all go ooh, yeah, And I don't want them
to go ooh. Yet they won't go ooh with something
else that I'll share, you know, they won't go oo

(01:25:05):
if I have a lot of bits about a woman's world. Oh,
it's a woman's world, you know, Like, uh, they convince
you diamonds, diamonds are forever. I'm like, so is bad credit.
But that's a joke, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Right, you can fix your credit like it's.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
Joke and it's fun. There's no there's no healing needs
to be done necessarily. They smell it if you're not healed.
I tell my students this all the time, as it
don't bring that to the stage. There's this one who
open for me and she she will walk home I
hate my kids and she would say I want my
husband X husband dead and I was like, yeah, yeah,

(01:25:47):
there's another way to say that, right, yeah, And I
get it, but there's another way to say it. So
I'm working on wandering there. I'm still wandering into the
dating material. You know this is all new and fresh. Yeah,
and it'll get there. And it's getting there. I have
a new bit that I'm doing. You're the first to

(01:26:07):
hear this too. I just debuted it the other day.
I was doing a podcast and the guy says, you
have Aspergers, right, So, and my son was there, and
he's there, and he's he then instantly googles it and
looks it up. He goes, oh my god, that's it.
He's got eight of the ten ten. He has no
filter because I have no filter, right, Everything just comes
out of me. And he was so happy. Actually I

(01:26:29):
was married, and he ran back to his stepmom. He goes, here,
it is here, it is. He's got Asperger's, like, this
is the reason he acts like this. So now I
have a bit in my act where I go, look,
I have Aspergers. I have no idea what I'm saying.
So if I say something off color, I go, it
was my ass burgers. And if you're picking on me,
I have an affliction.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
I said, you're punching down. So anyway, that's my new bit.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
I like it. I love comedy. My husband and I
actually we frequently go to comedy works here in Denver
because we love you just want to laugh, right, and
so I think I've seen five or six comedians come through.
We love it. So if you ever come out.

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
Here, let me. For some reason, she doesn't book me anymore.
It's a bummer. I guess, well, it's it's the draw.
You got to be able to draw. And the older
I get, the less people. My people are dying and
they don't go out of the house. People see I
go see you when they hit fifty. You won't see
me because she's not booking me in Denver. I might
be able to go to the other improv or something
like that, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
I've never been to the improv in Denver.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Yeah, it was in a dicey area.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
Oh isn't everything well not the comedy works in Landmark.
That's no, That's the one I go to. Is the
one in Landmark.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
I like that one, safe and peaceful, and I mean
I've always had great times there. But maybe I maybe
she'll give me one night or something.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
You'll come, Yeah, I'll come. Let me know. Cult people
ill will will hold the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
Wouldn't it be great to have a cult of laughing?

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
Yeah? Yes, can I do?

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
That's just laughing. I am trying to do I am
doing that. Actually, I'm trying to build a laugh mob.
Or I am building I keep saying trying, I'm building
a laugh mob. We have groups that I conduct workshops
guided laffotation. I take people through guided lafftation. These are
my solutions of life. I don't just want to sit
and complain about being in being in a cult. I
want to keep on coming up with solutions to offer

(01:28:29):
other people, to be of service to other people. I
do chuckle chatter and guided lafftation and laugh for life
therapy programs.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
Well, they say that laughter is the best medicine, right
that you know, open up and say, ha ha, That's
what I say.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Right, If it's the best medicine, why are we not
going to comedy clubs. You're a pharmacy.

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
Oh I go to comedy clubs a lot. We do
it a lot. We like that's like a nice state
night for us.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
When you come to Southern California. I work here a lot.
I'm in Southern California. I'll get you tickets free tickets
to any show.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
Perfect. I need to actually to make a trip out there.
I've got a lot of people that want me to
come to southern California.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
Am right, you should come out here. So even though they're.

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
Nuts, well well California people, I'm sure somebody somebody's from California.
They're like, we're not that bad.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
Oh well no, actually most of them say that they're
that bad. They do admit it. I'm from Philadelphia, which
is very edgy, no filter, which is why you are
well ass burgers. When I was a kid, used to
the TV was on the fritz, used to bang it
and it would come back to life. That's what I
want to do with people. Want to just pop them
in the head when they're idiots. But the other side

(01:29:35):
of me is very spiritual. So I'm stuck between not
mi stay and kiss my ass. That's where I live
all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
It makes it challenging.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
I want to embrace you and then mace you, hug you,
and mug you. That's that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
That's like you're California and your Philadelphia competing all time.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
They compete all the time. I mean, I need to
end up in the Midwest.

Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
A lot of people are moving to the Midwest right now.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
So oh, by the way, my ex wife's boyfriend is
in Colorado.

Speaker 1 (01:30:05):
I want to meet.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Him because they have been because my kids have been
kidnapped twice. They're afraid that that's what she's gonna do,
either have me killed and then so she can go
there and move in with him, or that she'll just
kidnap them out here. I'm stuck in a position of going,
do I let them out of state? You know, do
I prevent that. I'd let it happen already because I

(01:30:30):
always go back to nice guy and always go back
to cleaning things up on my part. And I did
let them go on a trip, and she was good
on the trip. It was great. They had a family
trip and she didn't do anything. But they're scared, and
I'm scared. I'm scared. You don't know what anyone's capable of,
Like Lori Valo, I think anybody, anybody in a planet,
was going she's gonna kill the two kids. You know,

(01:30:51):
no nobody thinks like that. We all live in denial.

Speaker 1 (01:30:54):
Well, because you want to think the best of whoever. Right,
You're like, well, that's a mother, Like she's not gonna
kill them.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
Exactly, and you only remember them for how you want
to remember them, you know what I mean? It takes
a lot. I just heard statistic I talked about this
on my podcast. If someone has shown evidence, if they
have confirmation bias, if on something, and they're shown evidence,
absolute evidence that it's not true, take a guess at
the percentage of people that will switch their opinion to

(01:31:22):
the truth. The percentage of people.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
I thought it was a third, but I think it's
less than that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
Actually seventeen percent.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
Okay, that is sad. Oh yeah, So.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
If I showed actual footage of her beating me, they
would either say, oh, you deserved it's the footage is
messed up. You shouldn't do that to your kids, to
subject them to the footage whatever it is, some other
reaction other than oh, she needs to be stopped. And
that's the sad thing for me. Again about the courage
thing is I wish that she had friends or families

(01:31:53):
said she needs to stop and return to her true self,
which is a beautiful, beautiful beating. She was incredible, and
that's what I would hope would happen.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
Well, I hope that that does happen. I hope for
your kid's sake at least. Yeah, like, if nothing else,
like they need to have a decent stable mother. Yeah, so, Craig,
thank you so much for coming a Cult Chronicles sharing
your story. I'm gonna link everything so that way anybody
can find you, your podcast, your website, everything will be
in the show notes, so whoever wants to find you

(01:32:26):
can easily do that. And when you come to Denver,
I'll come see you. And when I come to California
we'll meet up then too.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
Reread tickets to my show. And also I'm way into
conspiracy theories, so have me on that one too.

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
Oh yeah, if you guys don't know, I have a
second podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:32:44):
I recently posted something on my social media and a
lot of people are like, I didn't know you had
two podcasts. So I have another podcast called rabbit Hole.
So if you want to go check that out.

Speaker 2 (01:32:52):
Yeah. I love conspiracy. Matter of fact, I think that's
what's going on here. There's a dark force out there.
It is capturing people, taking their entire spirit and soul
and and taking it down this road which is so
destructive and so harmful.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
But anyway, that's that is the theory that Yeah. All right,
thank you so much. By