Episode 9: Sleepless in Cult Chaos

In this emotionally charged episode, Craig delves into the struggles of sleepless nights and the heavy burden of dealing with a loved one deeply entrenched in a cult. Join Craig as he shares personal stories that reflect the overwhelming sense of helplessness, frustration, and the devastating impact of secrecy and avoidance in relationships. This episode also explores the eerie parallels between cult-like behaviors in society and my own experiences, as I navigate the complex emotions of fear, anger, and the relentless pursuit of truth in a world clouded by deception.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
It's actually four point thirty in the morning. It's pretty
common over the last several years for me to not
have good sleep. It's another toll that happens when you're
beloved joins a cult and blows everything up. Even previous

(00:33):
to the actual act of suddenly moving out and taking
the kids to an unknown location, there was the lead
up to it that caused such anxiety and I just
didn't know what to do about it. I remember being

(00:58):
angry and it just it angers me to when someone
walks away like she has such an ability to do.
I've actually never seen anything like it, cutting off any
input real quickly. I want to say that the parallels

(01:19):
of the girlfriend I was telling you about it just unbelievable.
Or she literally said I don't want your feedback because
I was said, how about we feedback to one another.
I thought it was a good concept. A lot of
these concepts I come up with also because of growing up.
The opposite of what people would accuse a man of being,

(01:40):
and that's a misogynist and sexist is I'm giving what
I believe that women are asking for, and that's emotional
availability and vulnerability and truth. I thought conceptually the concept
they gave me. I was doing that asking for feedback,
and I understand and what this does to someone, especially

(02:03):
someone in hiding. It doesn't want to be vulnerable, it
doesn't want to tell the truth. All the things that
they're asking a man to do incapable of doing it,
and so then the cover up just gets to be extraordinary.

(02:23):
I could not believe the way. I remember one time
I was going, now, listen to me, Listen to me,
and you know, the more you say listen, that's listen
to me. That's the ironies. The more I push, the
more pushback, the more ignoring, which angers me to be
ignored like that because we're partners, we're partners in parenting

(02:47):
at the very least. And to have the walk outs
and the I mean, we've had terrible incidents in the
front of our house. I'll because I go a little
you're gonna hear now crazy, Yeah, I go crazy because
I just can't make any logical sense out of this,

(03:07):
and it really jostles so many emotions in me to
be ignored. And I'm in fear, and I guess I
engage her fear. So she's literally like run me over
with the car. I'm half in the car because I'm
trying to stop her. I have just no methods to
stop this running away, avoiding, ignoring. It's just such. People

(03:35):
use the word abuse, but it just feels like emotional
abuse to not listen to someone to do the opposite
of what would be good for a family, or being honest.
That would be good for a family, to be honest,
and I'm asking for honesty worse, worse, worse, And but
she could take it to a degree. I still call

(03:55):
it the face. My ex wife would give me the
face and it was just this blank, emotionless, robotic face
that again I'd never seen it before. And I remember

(04:16):
one time she just put the pillow around her ears
and just scratched her ears to make a noise so
that she could drown out my noise. Just so, my
visual of it is just so caustic, toxic and rude.

(04:36):
And I'd say take the pillo off. So and then
if I reach down and take that pillow off, that's
the point of no return, because the only return is
going to be, oh, here's a man for lifetimes ago.
That's what a man does. A man acts physically, and

(05:01):
that's my physical act of pulling this pillow away. I
remember one time I had her backpack because I was
so desperate as I please listen to me, Please listen
to me. So what do I do? What do I do? It?
The same the time that she charged me, I took
the phone and I said, I'll give it back if
you tell the truth. But somebody programmed like this does

(05:23):
not have an interest in giving in or surrendering. And
it's not going to be a forced surrender. It's just
not going to be that way. See the dog's barking
in the background, even though it's the wee hours of
the day. So that scares me that this is the

(05:46):
problem with having a cult. I'm scared that somebody's breaking
in the house to kill me because you just don't
know what they're capable of. Knocks in the door. I
love people, and now I don't want knocks at the

(06:08):
door because I'm afraid it's the police or child services
or something like that. Because she can go that far,
and has gone that far, she has not gone far
into herself so that she doesn't do these things. She
has not examined why she can so easily manipulate systems

(06:28):
and everything else, knowing by the way, knowing that women
win these battles. Women win the battles because of the history.
So if I reach down to the pillow, if I
take the backpack, and I took the backpack, and I
think she hurt her finger once trying to get it
back and then use that I remember she went to

(06:49):
her friend I'm using other names, June, and brought this
whole scenario of this big bad guy and this big bad,
violent guy who's not I. Yes, I have a tipping point,

(07:12):
and I become intense and powerful, and I can understand
how that intimidates. This is one thing for sure, none
of that ever comes out if there's even decency in
return and truth, none of it. So this intensifies when

(07:39):
I'm being lied to and avoided. I'm very simple questions
I'll ask and there's no way this questions are going
to be asked. So like an intense attorney, I keep
going and going and going and digging and digging instead
of surrendering myself. So she went back to what I
call her June, it's always close to the real name,

(08:03):
and she shows her this evidence. Ah, yes, that's who
he is. Now she's got another person, and another one
and another one look at my finger. But there's no
way that she's going to anyone with any accountability. Every

(08:24):
single story she tells does not have an iota of
maybe if I just would have told him the truth
like a like a good person does or a couple
does as you work things out, there's just none of
that self discovery. I'm gonna keep doing mine and you know,

(08:45):
do the best I can, and sometimes it's not the best,
and that's not the best. To become intense and intimidating,
that's just no excuse, that's just the way it is.
As I have this feeling, it comes inside of me,
I'm like, God, so frustrated. What am I going to do?
What are my options? She exercises her options of secrecy

(09:05):
and deception and goes around and just amazing to me.
I'll get back to the girlfriend too. It's amazing to
me how these women that I've experienced. I can't say
all women, but it's amazing to me what I have
experienced with some women, the level of behind the back betrayal,

(09:31):
self obsession, these acts that are just like a spy.
I just followed someone who wrote a book that she
was just a spy for years sometimes I'd wonder is
she a spy? I mean, because this is not the
person that I believe that I married, but the level
of secrecy and hiding. They say, you're as sick as

(09:55):
your secrets. To me, that's sick. And my perception on
marriage as you share. So I gave everything without pause,
everything every dime I make. I do very little for myself.
I just I was just watching the Steve Martin documentary

(10:17):
and I think that he has a lot of things
in common with the obviously comedian and his father relationship
and having children late, and it was interesting to see
his process and how he does see the kids as
his kids as a reflection of what not to do.

(10:39):
And that's kind of how I raise the kids, is
I mean, I'm not perfect like that, that's for sure.
Like one of the things not to do I talked
about in the last episode is I I say things
that are just out of my own personal non healing,

(11:02):
say things that are still in that space of angst
and worry and fear and depression, whatever it is that
I say things out of that space instead of this
powerful space that I usually live in. So she goes
back and tells June, you know, I'll look at my

(11:22):
finger and now so now it's abuse. You know, it
gets labeled. It's the guy. It's the guy. It's the guy,
and that's clever stuff. I can't think like that. I
can just like even this podcast, I'm just simple to here.
It is. It's stream of consciousness. It's what's coming up
for me and my memories. I'm just sharing my memories

(11:44):
with you. I'm really attempting and you could find it.
Find the places. I don't really attempting not to come
from opinion, but just let you know the experiences. Now,
some of it's shaded with opinion and what I would
make conclusions, like I said about society or history or

(12:05):
generational trauma and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I'm
going to make some conclusions based on that, and you
can believe those are not But the facts are the facts,
and things are things, and the experiences experience and this
is what it is. And the experience was with June.
I went to an event with my wife at the

(12:27):
time for our child, a school event and one of
those all purpose rooms and the kids are up there
on stage and I love supporting that kind of thing.
It's beautiful. Their whole lives, all four children. I just
go to all of these things or participate in them,
whatever it was. We're singing and doing a play, and
they have words, anything like that. Talent contests so many

(12:49):
of these things throughout the years. And that's when all
parents get together in a beautiful community. And that woman
sat two people away from me and would not acknowledge
my existence. This is the mother of two of my
kids' best friends. And I said to Lotus afterwards, I said,

(13:11):
what you know, what's up with that? You know? And
can't you do something about that? Can't you tell her
what the truth is? The truth is, I didn't abuse you.
You've got your finger caught in the in the backpack? Now,
is my abuse that I took the backpack? Yeah, I
guess you could call it that. That's for sure. I

(13:32):
can guarantee the backpacks not taking if you tell the truth,
and the truth is, you need to be a couple
who's honest with one another with finances, with things like that,
that's what we all deserve to have in return, And
that's not what happened. In return. She did whatever she
wanted to do, She spent on whatever she wanted to

(13:54):
spend irresponsibly. So here I'm coming as a husband who's
being responsible actually does go out and earn the living.
And I just can't believe my former attorney would say
the word misogynist because I would express this stuff. I'd
express this. It's not fair. It's just as a guy.

(14:18):
You know, I don't want to make it about men
and women, but I guess I do. Really in this
position where I don't like victims, I really get bothered
by them. And I know that I'm not. I know
that that's not what I bring out to the world.
If I did, I would not have succeeded away from nothing,

(14:39):
and you know, achieved quite a bit. Sometimes though, I
guess it's just got to be okay to express it
so that other people can grow from it, or other
people can offer suggestions on not being a victim. I
certainly do know that being accountable does work. That is

(15:02):
for sure. That experience has worked for sure. So in
each piece that I do share, there is an accountability
on my part. For instance, taking the backpack, that's accountable.
That was an option, Taking the phone that was an option. Desperation,
Yet where are we discovering in ourselves a way to

(15:27):
relate to one another in humanity. I mentioned before the
reason I left the left is the left has just
become this attack source. I try to keep things evergreen
and non opinion, but this is just what I observe is,
let's just go make a list of what Donald Trump does.

(15:47):
And I'm not saying, quite frankly, not into there is
a list, and I'm not into what I see. I
don't have to be told I'm not into what I see.
And it started with his debate long ago. First time
he debated, I just want my god, he's name calling.
It was this stuff that I don't want my children

(16:08):
to see. I remember my young son very instantly said,
what's up with mister drunk? Like he was a drunk.
I don't share the values. Now, you can't attack the left.
So to convince me of these values that I just
don't share, you just can't do that. I will not
respond to that. But what I found was the reverse

(16:31):
is true. You can't get me to get behind a
democrat or whatever it is by attacking the other side
or analyzing, scrutinizing, making a list. I read a list
yesterday on Facebook. I couldn't even believe it. And it's
being cut and paste and passed around. Now, the reason
I bring this up is a follower mentality. There's so

(16:59):
much of a doubt there might be choosing to go
to this centered space, not the center of whatever it
is is centered. I'm very centered this way to remove
myself from this. I already have a real good habit
of not watching the news, but it's obviously it's out there,
so it comes across in the same as social media.

(17:19):
Just boom, middle, pop up, pop up, and this one
popped up. I actually thought it was written by this
friend of mine who's a good writer, but it wasn't.
Then I looked at it another I went, wait a minute,
he stole this from Mark, you know, And I realized
it's the same reason I left. It's just a regurgitation
of taking someone else's inventory and putting it out there.

(17:43):
And it's all to ignore your own. It's all so
we can avoid self introspection and examination. If you make
it about them, you point the finger and then three
are pointing back. You know you're ignoring that they're pointing back.
You just want to ignore it. Here's where the mob

(18:03):
mentality comes in. This is where the way to go.
It's done from ego. I did it. I would post
these things and there's I'm letting you know personal experience.
There is no reward. There is no reward in doing this.
So what yeah, yeah, you've done all these things. It's

(18:24):
just awful, and some are really awful. But it makes
me ignore the person I allegedly support. It makes me
not examine them or ask better of them, because there's
no other. So that's where we are, and that's where
what happens with the cults. So maybe I can bring

(18:47):
this to this parallel and you might have a better
understanding of where I'm coming from. Let's say you're anti
Trump and you're listing, listing, listing, listing all these things,
how dare he? Oh my god? And then all of
the jokes and all everybody's trying to be more clever
than the next, and they pass it around. It's unoriginal,
first of them, when you pass something around, it's not yours.

(19:10):
What I used to say about him, the reason I
wouldn't vote for him is because he doesn't share my values.
That's okay, right, but people who follow him that wouldn't
be okay. And then they would point out, what about
the libs, you know, libtards and all this kind of stuff.
So I would get in these fights, and I really
did believe that I was right, So stepping away, stepping back,

(19:33):
taking the sacred pause and breathing spiritus and Latin word
for breath, and really having the breath of who I
truly am, this power, power, propotency of who I am.
Let that take over, and that wouldn't inform me or
to guide me into Hey, here's write some stuff that
you're regurgitating. It was sent to you. I started to go,

(19:56):
wait a minute, who's sending this stuff. That's the truth
with science, same with during the whole pandemic. Who's sending
this stuff to me? I examined that and went, oh,
it's people that profit from making sure that I do
get into that mob and that gang. So I started

(20:17):
examining the gangs I've been in. I was in the Lefty,
the Lefty gang, if you will, and here's what I
have to say. It served no purpose whatsoever. I didn't
get into a gang that was loving. I didn't get
into a gang that was supportive. If anything, if you
say something outside of their scope, attack, mindless attack. I

(20:41):
remember one time I was you can also identify this
as now it's called woke, the virtue signaling the I'm
better than you are because I choose the better cause
I've got the better ribbon. That's mob mentality, that's cultish,
That's what it is. I'm pointing this out for a

(21:03):
reason because I think we all need to self examine
and figure out where we are in these mobs. The
follower ilk of which I accuse them, they're the only ones,
you know, the right wing, the Trumpers, the whatever you
want to call them. It's derogatory. So I'm not going

(21:23):
to do that. I'm doing it to identify it for
the story. But that's not what I wish to do
as a better man. As I could become a better man.
I wish to work on myself, work on If I'm
at a party, I work on my party. I work
on how I can contribute, how I can make my
party better, not how I can say how yours is worse.

(21:46):
This is a game. They both just come up with
lists that they were handed and then they just bring
the list out there, and how dare you could be
part of these communists of all of whatever it is.
It's just it's that's called insanity. The same behavior expecting
different results. There's just no result to it. So I'm

(22:09):
talking about this in regards to my wife joined a cult.
It could be people have asked me, what cult is it?
What cult is it? What's the cult of this woman
broke who preys upon vulnerable people women mamas that she
calls them. So there's something about the word mamas that

(22:30):
has that ring to it, like, wow, that's a great
identity that I have that, by the way, men could
never have. It makes you an exclusive group when I
believe we need unity, especially within a relationship, within a marriage.
So now when you're off with the cult of Mama's,

(22:53):
think about that. If you took a sacred pause, that's
serving your family to get to encouraged to again. Politically,
way to go. You attacked and so oh you called
them the orange and whatever it is, and I did it.

(23:14):
I don't feel great about it. It didn't do anything
for me to uplift me. It was not spiritually conscious
to do this. It was unconscious thinking that I it's
the ego thinking me and my ego would be served
if somebody went like a comment, this is the addiction
that we're into it turns into pure pressure, and it

(23:35):
turns into cultish. So I began to examine today the
cults that I have been in the past, and that
was one of them. And I left the Left this
year or two years ago or whatever. It was very
happy to have done so, because now I observe and
I just watched this ugliness that takes place in the

(23:55):
the memes that are out there, and it's the repetitive.
It's the repeating of certain slogans and stances, and they
are stances. I don't want to get into the political
because I know what that does. And right now, my

(24:17):
goal is to encourage and inspire, not make you go
into a space of attack yourself, because you might want
to attack based on the cult that you're in. You
don't want to call it that. No one ever. Here's
the thing, big key, No one calls their thing a cult.

(24:38):
No one out there says, yeah, I'm in a cult.
By the way, you might want to join. No one
it's say to me, did you join solientology? What is it?
I've experienced with scientology. There are lots of great scientologists
friends of mine. I don't know if I said this before.
In another episode, I'm friends with them. They never came

(24:58):
on to me I'm friends with oron Robert's son, the founder,
no one ever, so I actually called my buddy. I
think I might have said this. I called them one day.
Guys ever came on to me. I was like a
jilted lover or something else, like it goes because you
don't think seem like you need it. It's a really
beautiful answer, and we're friends. And I can't be disregarded

(25:20):
or chastised or criticized because I have These are my
experiences with them. They are my friends, and I don't
have the experiences of it. But how about members of
twelve Step. I've been members. I've been a member of
twelve step programs for many many for decades, for many years.
A lot of really bad people, but a lot of

(25:43):
really great people that are on the path to recovery.
And here are the steps they take. We take to
recover from whatever it is, whatever addiction it is. These
are the steps. And by the way I've analyzed it
time and time again, its scrutinized that this is far,
this is the this is actually not a cult. If
you're in twelve steps, it's not a call to can't
be there's no leaders. There's something in there says we

(26:05):
are but trusted servants, we do not govern. Aren't her leaders?
What a wonderful thing that would be if we all
did that. I used to encourage Lotus to go and
then she went to alan On. The problem is with
the Allanon thing is there she gets to blame like
she's with the alcoholic and that's where her problems are.

(26:25):
That's that's where show. And then there's subcults within that.
She joined the women's group, and the women's group say, yeah,
you know, get away from that. You know, here's how
you respond to the alcoholic having nothing to do with
knowing what the alleged behavior was of this alcoholic. An

(26:47):
alcoholic anyway, So then you get that group, well, subgroup,
you need to make your boundaries and all this kind
of stuff. So this it's kind of like I almost
do need a leader. But if you follow what's written,
there are no loopholes. It's absolutely perfect. We are but
trusted servants who do not govern. No douser fees anonymous

(27:12):
at the level press radio film. It's all written so perfectly.
It's a higher power of your understanding. So it's not religious.
What a beautiful thing that is and has led to
absolute recovery for me, recovery from a lot of pain. Man,
I think you probably heard it, and you're probably hearing

(27:33):
it now that it's current pain. But the reason I
don't want anyone to pity me or say I feel
sad for you. Yeah, I understand feeling's sad for the kids,
that's for damn sure, I do too. That's why I
do this, That's why I keep showing up for them
despite all these obstacles and twelve Steps talks about courage,

(27:57):
you have to have the cur to change the things
you can and the wisdom the difference. Aren't we there?
You know that's a serenity prayer. So that's sometimes where
we are. It's like, well, what's the difference? Can I
change something? Is there enough that I could say that
would somehow nudge her, guide her, spook her or whatever

(28:21):
into some other direction where she questions the leader, questions
her behavior, or is there someone out there that can
have her do that instead of me? So it's me
passing it and on to them. So this follower of
mentality that we have in our society, I've had it

(28:42):
as well. But somehow, I don't know what it is.
I got a little lone wolf in me. I do
love people. I love community. I like to be the
leader of communities too. I actually am beginning yet another
like workshop in a community. I've had this idea of
a community of laugh minded people, and I teach people

(29:02):
guide to laff atation and it really does change vibration
and frequency is beautiful. It's all about laugh out love.
And I think that it's not a cult. But I
would encourage anybody you know, reach out to me and
talk to me about it. You know, if you think
it's a cult, then we'll discuss it and you can
challenge me. I'm certainly open to all of that. But

(29:23):
I do want to form laugh mobs. We bring that
energy out to the world. It's genuine energy flow of
who we really are. We really are love, light and levity.
We are these things, but we're just not taught that.
We're taught in society to join these mobs of hatred
and not unity. It's not a United States at whatsoever.

(29:43):
And these people do pull the strings. They love it,
they thrive on it. They put so much money into it,
and it'll call something disinformation misinformation, whatever it is, and
so these alternative ideas get squashed and then peer pressure
takes over. So they have the gang's doing the work

(30:03):
for them. And that's what so government is basically a
cult leader. I can't make statements like that, can I.
My take on it is I've seen enough evidence to
support that premise. And I won't get into it, but
I will tell you the ones I've been in. I was.

(30:25):
I swore when I went away to college it was
a start over type of thing. I was beaten up
and things like that, and I just felt beaten and
I took a gap year they call it. I worked
in a law firm. I actually started my comedy career,
which was great. So I was able to supply all
the money to put myself through college. I never got
one dime from my mom sent me ten dollars one time,

(30:48):
never forget it. I bought beer with it, and I
was in and I joined a fraternity, and I swore
that I would never join a fraternity. I swore it
was buying friendship, is what I would say. It was.
It's people that I do think now that I'm thinking
out loud as I usually do, I do think it's

(31:10):
symbolic here. I was this independent guy, but I was lonely.
I was lonely three three hundred miles away from my home,
you know, poor and all that making ends meet and working.
I always did a lot of jobs, always did it,
very entrepreneurial. But I wanted a gang, and I went

(31:31):
for the theater. And the theater it was a gang
as well. And I love my theater gang. And yet
not quite connected. A lot of people like closeted, you know.
And I'm not saying this to be derogatory, but closeted
is like another form of lying, and I'm not really
into that, as you can tell. And so it just

(31:52):
didn't fit in there as much as I'd like to.
Got the lead and plays and musicals. Also had terrible
experiences with that, with losing myself on the stage and
pissing my pants. But I joined this fraternity, and I
did something that no one else does. I always do
that kind of stuff. I lived in the fraternity while
I pledged I lived in the house. I needed a

(32:12):
place to live. Someone convinced me. We got an open
place in the house, and it became a place where
I could be beaten literally literally beaten at any time
or tortured. They call it tortured or made to do things,
you know, for them like I was. You know, their
their personal concubine or whatever. No concubine sounds like sex,

(32:33):
and there's no sex in fault. But go to the
store or just you know, bend over pledge. I'm gonna
beat you whatever it is. And I found myself out
of my system of being and putting my power over
into somebody else. And these guidelines that were absolute insane guidelines.

(32:54):
If I tell you what it is, I mean just
ridiculous to what I subjected myself to. It so bad
that I got so sick that during another pledge class,
Sowerby had was deaf in one ear and they've put
a firecracker off, and the poor guy was like screaming
in pain and ed ball my pledge. You know, I

(33:16):
never tortured anyone, by the way, once I got into
that position of being a brother, and he broke his
leg and it was shivering because they keep you cold
all night long. They're putting us in ice water in
the river and attacking. And I still have a scar
and my finger from just of glass and just so
much it was going on and absolute, you know, intentionally

(33:40):
making you vomit and accumulating the vomit they call the
bucket of knowledge, which they dip you in. I mean,
just this really insane stuff. If I tell you this,
I mean, this is slightly what they would do is
stuff you with cigars and tobacco in your mouth and
put you in a closet with the other pledges and
make you smoke till you vomit it. I mean, just

(34:00):
so many things that they would just come up with,
these insidious, crazy things that they would do it just
so you could be a brother. Wow, there you go. Here,
you drink this, eat this, snort this, do whatever to
be your brother. You gotta earn this brotherhood. And I
got into it. I did it, and I did it courageously,

(34:20):
and other people would. I would be that guy, the
leader that said, come on, you can make it. We're
blindfolded all night long and water poured on us in
the middle of the winter time in the mountains of Pennsylvania.
And that's what we do in society. And it's the
peer pressure of don't quit. Don't quit. It was don't quit.

(34:45):
Come on, we're in this together. Let's be brave. It's
false brave. It's false courage. And I watched the same
guys who are ready to quit and crying during our
pledge class. I watched them be horrible to people. After that,
they became like the users. These are my observations of
what went down. So I drove them to the hospital.

(35:08):
The new hospital is really far away in the mountains,
but it was a new hospital. And this tells you
the level that I went to of no nutrition and
freezing and going through this. And I take them to
the hospital. One's got a broken leg that's shivering in
his cast, and the other ones got this ear thing
that's going on. I take them and I'm in the

(35:29):
waiting room and I went into full convulsions, I mean
big time. And they came out. They shot me with
I think courtizone or something like that. So I turns
out I had pneumonia, and you know, you think that

(35:49):
would be the bottom, but it wasn't. I stayed in
the fraternity, but those two guys came out. They were released.
They said, where's our ride? They said, we admitted them,
so they admitted. I was there for a whole week.
It was bad, and I still get you know, the reminders.
For a while, I had reminders. They put garlic in
my hair, so every time I would shower for about

(36:11):
five years, i'd have this horrible smell that maybe even
more than five years. I just couldn't believe how long
that lasted. They rubbed garlic powder in my head, another
of these tortures. And that's what's going on a lot
that I observe in society. That's what happened with with
Broke taking in as her as she was the leader.

(36:34):
She became the leader. First it was Raven and then
and I was I wanted to do something, so I
took this life Spring course years ago. It's now called
MITT So I had Lotus do that, and I was
so happy because, oh she's away from Broke and that

(36:55):
spell and this is a learning course. And we had
done another one called Landmark before that. And when we
did that again, people could call that a cult. But
what it really was not for me because there was
no you know, they asked, they tried to recruit and
all that, but I basically took what I needed out
of it and really had a great relationship with her,

(37:15):
and based on a lot of the tenets of that
program Landmark, which used to be asked, which got a
bad reputation. You know, this happens with all the groups.
But if I can take out what I need, and
I thought she would it was it's now called Mitte.
My friend runs it and I got him to get her,
to get her to go, and then I'm watched the

(37:37):
process of someone who is so tender, vulnerable, confused. My
assessment again, my assessment is she became a mom, she
became a wife, and her feeling is that she doesn't

(38:02):
have any power or identity. I think that's what it is. Again,
that's clinical assessment and not reality. But if you can
understand what I'm saying, if we can get past what
my judgments are, I think that's pretty good idea of
what was going on. And by the way, she expressed
some of this to me, so she needed outside validation

(38:27):
because it wasn't going to come here from a guy
that she's now trying to get away from as the
guy that's like the controller, like the one in charge
and literally the breadwinner of every dime that comes in.
And she had just been part of the other cult
and that she admitted to that. She admitted that Raven
was a cult, and she's started to get in one

(38:48):
multi level marketing after another. They did a Mama's thing,
teaching mamas how to raise kids, and all these vanity
photos that they took with one another as unbelievable, like
all these photos. You don't need a man in all
of history, you needed a man. Your father was responsible

(39:09):
for bringing you into the world. But it's forgotten and
it becomes venomous. And I started to notice, oh my, wow,
all these photos are family. It's just broke came down
for a photo session. What was that one called I
put so much money in you think I would know?

(39:31):
And yeah, it was the money that I earned. And
I wanted to be supportive because I wanted to have
compassion for I don't know, she doesn't want this to
be her identity. I get it. So, you know, middle
aged and hitting menopause and all that stuff. I get it.
So let's have empathy and compassion. Craig is So that's

(39:54):
where I'm coming from.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
What is it called Mama's so something Mama's again, but
it's teaching moms how to you know, whatever it was,
and it was raising independent child and all this kind
of stuff.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
And here's the thing with this cult leader unqualified. Someone
said you could sue just for that. You could sue
because she's not qualified to be doing these things and
leading these mamas or whatever. It is not qualified. There's
no certificate or anything like that, or no experience. It's
as they would just do things as they went. She

(40:33):
would just pontificate and they would. I think they brought
in another partner, but all the photos were just them
with their children. Men aren't needed. Maybe that's one of
the intentions of this podcast. I don't know. I mean,
maybe to do some switching around here, let's get together.
I just wanted unity with the world and with her.

(40:55):
That's all I wanted. I wanted this dream life of
a family. I used to play house when I was
kid or doctor with Livy Leaming and felt so great.
She would examine my chest with a stethoscope. I remember
that tender moment of feeling something I'd never felt in
my house because my house was very disassociated and not
loving and all that kind of stuff. But I remember

(41:17):
when we played house with Livy Laming and her we
operate on her younger brother, and this is when I
could live fantasies. So here I have this fantasy come
true as this family the first go around with the
other two sons. I mean that woman literally just went
on a vile mission to condemn me and lie about

(41:40):
me to the point where she could get people to
get those kids out and move them back to her
hometown of Rhode Island. She had just this horrible agenda,
and she just didn't stop at anything. She would accuse
me of anything, olestation, kidnapping, or what else. I mean,
just abuse and physical abuse. I mean, she just went

(42:00):
she knew that people respond to that. I was afraid
to even say the word molestations even just now. I
don't think I've said it in on podcast yet because
someone hears, Oh what does that do? What does that
do to you listening? You think it could be guilty?
Of course you do. I think it if I hear it.
But that's what she knows, and that's the trick, and

(42:24):
that's what Lotus knows as well. That's what Broke knows
as well. Is what's society going to respond to that
these men are doing this, are keeping us down, whatever
it is, they're abusive, Because there's a track record of abuse,
physical abuse, men killing, raping, all those things women aren't

(42:44):
known for it, so it comes with a reputation when
you're a man and I gotta tell you a good guy,
a good guy. It's not a bragging thing. I'm a
good guy. I've done tons of really bad stuff, but
underneath it all and I believe she's a good woman,

(43:10):
and we become vulnerable. I became vulnerable to that. It's
just this longing in size, like where am I going
to get my validation from? Where am I going to
get those feelings that I seek that I'm not getting
in my home or I'm not getting from myself? And
we go down these paths. I joined this fraternity. It's

(43:31):
completely it was just about drinking. It was just about
disassociating and anger, misplaced anger, and so much is going on,
beatings literally beatings. It's just I mean, it's insane. And
that was my one cult I was in. I've probably
been in a few others, but I never really joined anything.
I could never join anything because something inside of me said, no,

(43:55):
get your independence. And let me tell you. It's in
a loan road. I'm going to call it lonely. It's
a loan road. I call it rare fight air to
be in this space of listening to the potency when
these people are making us impotent men and women. So
not only men are impotent. They take away your power

(44:19):
and have you empower them. My dad did it. That
wasn't a cult. But I would visit every weekend. When
I was about twenty one. I lived with my friends
and we would go a hope. We had a house
full of guys that we all graduated together high school,
and we'd go up every weekend, and I watched how
it operated. And he was a manipulator. Again, I don't
like to say terms of somebody label them, but here's

(44:42):
what he did. We would go up it was me, Rob, Stephen,
Mike every weekend and build this mule business with him,
this farm he had all these acres. At least I
think he did. I never knew with him. He didn't
tell the truth a lot, boy, Look that repeat not

(45:02):
telling the truth. Yeah, hiding money, oh boy, A lot
of repeats now that I'm thinking about them. But yeah,
I married my father, so you marry your mother. I
married my father. Just these deceptions and things and manipulation
and control using come here, go away as control and
taking things away and giving and you know like it's

(45:22):
just it's just some manipulation. So I felt manipulated. So
I would go up every week and the one thing
he did was he would rate the women, and whoever
won the award that day, whoever did the best with
the mules, or worked in the ranch properly, or did
you know, whatever it was that they did, they got
to sleep in his quarters with him. They roll up

(45:44):
their sleeping bag. They would all sleep in this big area.
The goats were in there, and I mean, and then
he would just tap them and they get to go
with He called himself the King of the Poconos. You
can be part of my empires. What he used to
say to me five mules and about fourteen women. He
had one like lackey guy that would do some mechanical stuff,

(46:05):
but in general, and the way he would work people
is he would have meetings to let you know what
the king thought of you. So instead of empowering ourselves,
which are twenty years old, we don't really have that ability,
we allowed this man to tell us who we were

(46:26):
and he would rate us. I can imitate him, as
I said, Rob's number one. Just because you're my son
doesn't make you number one. You had earn it. Steve,
you're number two this week, Greg number three. Mike, you're
out there, poor Mike. Mike never got the good ratings.
But Rob, I was just with his widow recently. Rob

(46:48):
was a very good friend who passed away ten years ago.
Rob was always number one. Now what does that do
to me? That makes me compete? And that's what a
cult knows. They use these emotional manipulations to make you
compete for their affection and attention. So Lotus is like

(47:10):
number one with Broke for attention and praise. She's number one.
That's he, that's her, that's Brokes Rob. And Rob became
like a conciliary for my dad. And then my dad
started manipulating him. He made him buy property up there
in the Poconos. It was pokeon ventures, all mules, taking

(47:32):
people on mule rids. Under this sounds all crazy, but
it's my life. It's the life that's out there, and
challenge after challenge after challenge, and what do I do
about it? So back to the mit T thing is,
so she goes to this and this is what was

(47:53):
unbelievable to me. I was so frustrated. I was angry,
and I was calling the head of it, who's a
friend of mine? You know, what are you guys doing?
Can you do this? I was trying to manipulate, manipulate results.
That never works. And I was really angry because guess
what she did? She made it into them. Praising her

(48:14):
for her coaching. I thought she would go in and
find out how to be a good wife and mother. Again,
that was my intention. Again, trying to control outcome never
a good thing. But I thought that this group, which
is cultish, if you will, because I watched what they did,

(48:35):
and they would have these groups. And then I look
over and she's got a collage of some stranger. I'm going,
who's this guy? Honoring this guy photos of him and
making it like a collage, and what the hell is this?
These are their practices that they have for whatever it
is the reason they're doing it. That's what they did.

(48:57):
And we went to her graduate on Zoom, me and
the kids, and it was unbelievable what I was hearing,
and she looked, it's just so programmed and so out
of it. And we praised their way to go, but
lost this lost little I's gonna say, angel I guess

(49:21):
you could say I mean, just this lost soul and
there they were saying what they were programmed to say,
these groups of strangers and all of it. I guess
just keep saying to myself, we have a family, We're
are here for you, We're here to praise you, we're

(49:43):
here to honor you, we're here to love you, we're
here to support you. And you can make the illusion
that that's not true. But it's just an illusion. It's
not true. Something to Byron Cading program the work, is
is it true? Lotus doesn't ask that question. She assumes

(50:04):
things are true based on what she's told by people
She empowers. Raven Broke. Other mamas they got the power.
Men get the disrespect. This man gets the disrespect here.
I am hardworking. Put I literally just hand my checks
over every single time I come off the road or

(50:25):
whatever it was. However, am I living nice living here?
You go, just hand over the check. And it turns
out she was taking those checks, putting him into secret accounts,
knowing that she was planning something that Broke was encouraging
her to do. Get your independence. You're a mother and
a wife and that's not something too. I remember this

(50:49):
guy did a speech about it. Now everyone went up
in arms, and I was like, look at this speech
and go, this isn't that bad. He's saying that it's
not a bad thing to own your wife and mom.
Otherwise we would not we would perish as people. We
would perish if there wasn't a mother role. I mean,
we're all figuring this stuff out. But I know for

(51:11):
a fact you can't have society unless you have procreation
people together. And you wonder what's going to happen in
society if it's two individuals. And that's what my now
ex wife chose to be as an individual as opposed
to a family. And I know for a fact that
family works. I watched it work with us all the
times we do get together, even in divorce, that children

(51:35):
are happy and secure. That's the way to learn, not
when you're an angst in chaos and mayhem. We learn
and grow when we're centered. To have a family is centering,
and this is what they prey upon. This is what
So I watched her. I said, you got to get out.

(51:56):
There's another one. I didn't call it a cult, but
you got to get out. And her process of getting
out reminded me when she got out of the raven.
They have all these buzzwords to keep you in and
humiliate you and shame you. I watched her we were
driving because the kids wanted her out as well. We
were driving and I watched her and she would give in,

(52:17):
and then then I would watch her get a little stubborn.
I'm getting out, and she stayed in for a bit.
They were telling her the right things and encouraging her
for your coaching program, which I don't even know what
the coaching program was. Wouldn't share that with me, your
husband who's supplying the money for the coaching program. She

(52:37):
finally did it, and I watched her get braved. That's it,
I'm out, which was great. With that. I thought I
was hoping all this time that she would do that
with broke, and never has. That woman has had her
for fifteen years now, since the first insurance scam, multi
level surant, two year to millionaire, to RX, to soaps,

(53:02):
to all sorts of things, to funnels, building funnels and
all this kind of stuff. They're allegedly entrepreneurs. You're not
an entrepreneur if you don't make money. It's a concept.
All these things are into water machines now they're into orgasms.
I just found out recently selling dildo's or something like that.

(53:22):
I don't know. I'm not going to research anymore. I've
done enough. It's just insanity, and these people are insane
to keep you in a mob, but it goes for
check out your own mob. Are you in one where
religion can be one? Why is it always scientology. I'm

(53:43):
not saying anything great about scientology. I'm not saying anything
bad about scientology. Same with Christianity. I've been a Christian,
I've been I go to a church now and then
a man I admire beyond belief. I don't know if
I told the story or not, but this pastor has
shown himself to be so that I disagree with. But
I love him and I love a lot of his messages.

(54:08):
I was talking about this girlfriend. It suddenly just blew
everything up out for no rhyme or reason or anything.
I took her to that church, and the guy's sermon
was about me and bringing people together. And I brought
someone together who's the opposite of him politically, and I
just love this sermon. It was beautiful. We can find
this in everybody who we deemed to be our enemy.

(54:29):
We can find ourselves in them. I just don't want
to go about it the way Christian's Jews. I've been
you know, of satyrs at my house and when I
was growing up, and you know, my mom marries or
whatever it is. I mean, I get to see all
of it. And this independent guy, this is an independent guy.

(54:52):
I'll take from all of it. Just watch the Guy
Comedy special and a lot of it was about the
you know, the Torah or what he learned. You know,
he's bringing it, you know, and this is these are
the things that I've learned. There's some gained wisdom that

(55:12):
I wish to share and I need to share for
myself too. This relationship I just had, this girlfriend, I'm
I I am. I'm shocked, but I'm not shocked at
this this behavior of hers that out of the blue.

(55:34):
I don't know what her cult is. I don't know
what it is, but I do know the things that
I recall now a week later or whatever it is,
it's still fresh. I do recall the when people become
life coaches, often the therapists the same thing. Often they
needed themselves, and they refuse to listen to because they

(55:55):
have all the answers. When I don't have the answers.
Is when answers arrive, when I surrender results, when I
surrender myself. When I was asking her and I watched
this real fight, suddenly there was this fight that I
am woman, And how dare you manipulative man, controlling man?

(56:18):
How dare you say you're going to feedback or beam?
I don't want your mirror. That's what she said. I'm
going to go do this on my own, and that's
what Lotus did. How in the world can you grow
if someone doesn't say, hey, that hurt, or you might
want to try a different way, or my experience is this,

(56:39):
and I've found experience on both sides. This one didn't work,
and this one does work. This one hurt people, this
one loved people. How in the world and when we're
solo artists without getting proper feedback from someone who says
reflects back to us a mirror we look into a

(57:00):
for a reason. Oh my god, nobody told me I
had broccoli in my teeth. That's what you can do
for as a couple. Got broccoli in your teeth, keep
the broccoli there if you want, and force you to
take the broccoli out, but it's there. And this girlfriend

(57:22):
I call girlfriend, I mean, this is this was on
its way. I mean I just couldn't understand. This is
again our programming that's out there. So how can you
just abandon something when you put this love investment into
something and you expect the love to be returned and
that's what is happening. There's an exchange of love and

(57:44):
divinity and happiness and joy and laughter, fun community. And
to take that and put a stick of dynamite into
it with no process, no reason, It's just to me,
that's the insanity of our world where quick fix people

(58:05):
I think we know everything. And it was literally and
no matter what I would say to it reminded me
of Lotus, As I say, these children are going to
be affected by this. But there's a justification. When people
do these things, they just justify it. They find other
people to justify it for them, people that don't know

(58:26):
the truth of what's happening. So if Lotus or the girlfriend,
if they go to someone else and feedback, even at
therapist says this, this and this, it's only their perception
and perspective. It's the only thing they have, right, just
like you're only hearing my perspective. I'm hoping that I'm
sharing experience, not perspective. It's going to wander into both.

(58:47):
But your feedback back to me is still ill informed.
You can suggest to me what you've done, which I'm
open to. So will you done in your cult situation?
I called Katherine Oxenburg, whose daughter dealt with the next him.

(59:08):
I remember her talking to me about who's definitely into
how you handle the children. That's always a tough one
because there's this fine line of I mean here, I'll
tell you that this Rundel. Here's another text. He said,
you are playing the victim in every way. I don't
know where he gets that from. Never met the guy.

(59:30):
All these assessments, I have no idea where they come Well,
I do know where they come from. She asks him
to do this, she gives her perspective. So here's the
feedback of her perspective. Just so you know, this is
what she's putting out to the universe, into the world.
Is this guy is this? And it forces me to defend,

(59:51):
And at times my defense is like, you know, I
wanted to I have had visions of going and confronting
this guy. Tell me this. I'd ie man tell me,
i'd I I act like a tough guy, actually a
tough guy. That's how I go in to Philly. Okay,
let's go. Let's go. Not in a threatening way. Tell

(01:00:14):
me to my face. I'll tell you to your face,
my truth and experience of what's happened. You think Lotus
is ever gonna go to anyone, a therapist or anyone
and tell the truth. No, absolutely not. We went to
a therapist. I watched how she lied. It's a spiritual

(01:00:34):
therapist who I thought was great. By the way, Mum,
she's another one. I wish that's somebody she would listen
to the truth and maybe she could do an intervention.
She made the assessments based on her stuff. I watched
her do that with me. I saw her individually. She
projected her own unhealed stuff with her father onto me.

(01:00:55):
So me saying something rough, me saying something rough, me
saying something with with growl to it, anything you've heard it,
I've got that edge to me that's gonna be deemed
as ah, he's that you got to get away, You
got to go protect yourself, as opposed to what if
the solution was let me self examine and think what

(01:01:17):
would make him growl? What would make a dog growl? Well,
if you took away their food for no reason, if
you took away their water for no reason, if you
turn your back on them for no reason, if you
stop being loving to them for no reason, if you

(01:01:38):
were abusive towards them for no reason, that they can see.
So if someone's growling, maybe listen, and maybe that's the answer,
is to look at them as as you being a
dog whisperer. Our dog Buffy is completely different dog because

(01:02:02):
of my energy changed. If lotus changed the energy as
opposed to going out and go in with love, what
would the results be? I know what the results would
be for me, get it even better, me, get any
even better, husband, getting even better father. So when I

(01:02:22):
went in to myself, when this girlfriend went for this
walk with me and told me this perspective of what
women do, how they disrespect men, and how they become
victims and how they then attack and blame, and she
ended up doing exactly that, exactly that, even going into
my phone and violating my privacy, going to to gather
evidence so she could do that. This is a person,

(01:02:45):
it claims to be a life coach. I would not
want to take that advice from a life coach. But
her and lotus, any of these behaviors that they do,
I guarantee they are not going. I wanted people and go, Okay,
what can I do? I know, I do my process.
I went to Akille yesterday. Here's my stuff. I'm on

(01:03:09):
the phone too much. It's one of my things I'm
guilty of. That was what was great about this girlfriend
when she reflected back to me, you're on your phone
so much. I wanted to see what you were doing.
So that's why she went into the phone. I was
an excuse. I'm not saying it's a good thing. But
I looked at it and go, oh, my mom tells me,
my kids tell me. So now I get to go.

(01:03:30):
Let's adjust here, Let's get off this damn phone. Find
an alternative. It's an addiction. I encourage anybody to do that.
Self examined. Somebody says something to a reflective way, not
in a mean way, reflect back to one another, and
we can all healing get better. That's my concept. It's
not only a concept. I've watched it work. I watched

(01:03:52):
it work, and even in this case, again, that was horrible.
What she did. I mean I was reeling from I
still am a little bit. I also want, where's the
lesson here? If you're more present, maybe she wouldn't have
done that. Maybe same with Lotus, more present, more active.
I do regret that I should have asked on more dates,
should have gone back to the spiritual center where we met,

(01:04:14):
should have done a lot more of that stuff. And
if we were ever married, if we did stay married,
I can guarantee you that's exactly what would take place
with slips away. Oh, let's come back. I encourage anybody
to find your center, your center, not empowering someone else.

(01:04:35):
Your center. I find my center. It's a wonderful place
to be. I think that that's where this whole thing
is coming from this podcast. I don't know. My inspiration
is to say my centeredness leads to listening to this
giant source within me, that the breath, and just become

(01:04:58):
this vessel of peace and joy and happiness and love
and laughter. I didn't do a lot of laughter stuff
in this. I understand that part of it has to
do with if I don't have feedback, I'll tell a
joke or whatever. If I don't have feedback, I'm not sure.
So this is just me talking, right, Here's what he says.

(01:05:21):
He says, you're playing the victim in every way. I
hope one day that you realize the damage you're creating
for your children and telling them everything negative and made
up stories about their mom. I had them do a
video to their mom of what's not made up? Not
made up. This stuff is not made up, none of it.
It's all confirmed by them, every bit of it. So

(01:05:42):
if I am killed or something comes after me, the
evidence is there. It's one of the reasons I did it.
But I'm not subjecting them to my poison, my version
of her. I'm saying, she's just said this about me.
What's the truth. So it's like, well, if you don't
want these results of my responses, then do something of value,

(01:06:05):
do something with morals, do something where you're actually being honest.
So this guy, ironically is she's being a victim of
me allegedly doing these things, but doesn't examine how that
might have happened. How are we in this position where
kids are asked to be on a video and talk

(01:06:27):
to their mom and say please stop doing this abuse?
How are we there? Because it starts with she didn't
go in. She went out out and empowered this guy,
this jackass. I'm sorry, I called an email so made
up stories about their mom. How does he know that,
never ever, ever, has he been in our presence? And
this is what happens everybody. This is the cult mentality

(01:06:49):
that we live in. We believe the memes are sent
to us, we believe the sources. But if you examine
the sources, the sources are all up to no good.
A lot of them are up to no good. They're sponsored.
If you're talking about things in the news that they're
telling you, it's all sponsored one hundred percent of the time.
I get to examine that now and step back and say, oh,

(01:07:11):
conspiracy theorists. And then I get to step back and go, oh,
you're called a conspiracy theorist because they're threatened by your
conspiracy theory. All great things happen with the theory starts
off with a theory that Jeffrey Wygan tobacco. It's not
a theory, this is his experience. He's trying to get
this out there. Of course they went after me. He's
a conspiracy theorist. Aaron Brockovich Daniel Elsberg with the pentagon papers.

(01:07:36):
It's time after time. It's called a whistleblower also, and
whistle blowers are attacked. That's I'm attacked here for doing
this whistle blowing on and this guy's pissed, but I'm
blowing the whistle. Now he's threatening me blowing the whistle.
It's your corrupt this is corruption. I had another husband

(01:07:59):
reach out to me. This is why we are married.
He goes, Wow, she's doing it with him, and that
wife left him as well. In the Mama's group, he says,
this is a complete repeat. Yet you don't understand or
see the impact of the harm you're causing. Well, Rundel,
it sounds like this is a repeat in your life,

(01:08:21):
because let's not attack without looking inside of yourself. I
certainly heard some things about you you might want to examine.
Also heard that you've been in and out of your relationship,
your glorious relationship. You have to show off on the
internet of your ridiculous engagement party and all this. Yeah,

(01:08:42):
should have a camera on all those times you fight
and you split and living different homes and stuff like that.
Confusing the kids even more than these confused kids, how
to have a mother that if you go to her
websites or her social media, you'll see bragging about cheating
on her husband and bragging. So that's morals and values.

(01:09:02):
I'm not being some moralistic guy, but that's not going
to work for your family to teach them that. You
run up across an obstacle in your life and just go, Okay,
here's my answer. Go have a one night stand and
then humiliate my husband by saying I had a one
night stand and what it did, and all this this
sexual domination and all this, and then meet Rundel. She

(01:09:24):
all suddenly she goes from one, I'm independent to now
I've got this guy and he's probably supplying the money.
You didn't get that. It's just she just pontificates and
just says whatsoever, whatever she feels. She said, everything's short
of like I had, I took a really great dump
this morning. Maybe she even did that. She just dumps

(01:09:46):
this stuff out there. This broke this alleged leader. I
teach mamas how to have their freedom and how to
have that. No, you're not, and what does that have
to do with it? All that she takes it into
a whole sexual thing, as so she did with my
ex my AX cut me off of sex for two years.

(01:10:08):
She writes about it also. I might have read that before,
but she also wrote about it on her Facebook in
a beautiful way too, of how we did come together once,
and how we did come together because she let go,
and how so that's the possibility that's out there. Why
I kept on trying to get her to get out
of the cult and get into that. She shows pictures

(01:10:33):
of us and you know, the shoemakers are together and
all this kind of She did that at least two
different times. I saved that. I might have read them
on here, just beautiful, like, yeah, here's like admitting and
examining and surrendering and letting go. It's always great to
let go, as I found, surrenders the greatest victory. And

(01:10:57):
I had to surrender in this one. I had to
surrender to divorce. Divorced boy, I'll tell you surrendering to
this legal system. He says, I'm not going to justify
answering anything else that you've written or the blame ah

(01:11:18):
projection projection production projection, projection, projection projection. He's he's going
to let the world know what I created. A man
of integrity, doesn't act out in a manner in any way,
exposes children to this and create trauma that they it
will take years to repair. Hate Rundel. This woman you

(01:11:42):
call your beloved, my ex wife, who you don't even know.
You've never lived with her. It's this phony world wellness
scrifters that act like they're in love with one another.
They don't live together, they don't have exposure to the uglies.

(01:12:04):
Couples have uglies. It's so for those couples to deal
with that and look within how I can best deal
with that. You don't have the answers for her. You
think he thinks that the answer is to attack me
and threaten me. He thinks that and analyze me and
scrutinize me and criticize me my kids. I had fun

(01:12:24):
with my kids. I'd read these to them. Yeah, I
subjected them to this truth, and I think that's a
good thing. People. You shouldn't do. No, let them know
it's out there. And by the way, if we're harmed
or there's a paper trail, now no reason to think
they're not going to harm us. Look at the harm
they already did. He talks about create trauma. They'll take

(01:12:49):
years to repair exactly. That's exactly what mom has done
that I desperately wish for her to get help so
she stops. There's no one holding her accountable. She certainly won't.
She goes into these cutoff modes that she can't listen
to anything. Even her great spiritual advisor she got rid

(01:13:12):
of and won't respond his text messages. I asked him
to reach out to her, and she won't respond to
him either. Nothing can get through this. It seems like
she's been possessed by some sort of demonic dark force.
I've always compared it to Star Wars. This is Anakin,
and the kids feel like this as well. Of course,
they respect and love their mom, and they should, and

(01:13:34):
I encourage that. That's why I encourage us to have
game nights or whatever it is. Yeah, let's move on
or move on as separate. We're not married, But it
doesn't mean we can't teach them lessons, because we've already
taught them the lesson. He's saying, Cree trauma. She's already
given them the trauma. They didn't want to be kidnapped twice.

(01:13:55):
They didn't want to be taken away to undisclosed locations.
Cut off from their father that did not want this.
They don't want any of this, just like Broke. She
went down that road and Broke bragged about it. So
I don't think that Lotus is bragged about it necessarily,
but there she is. Go look at it. I'll tell you.
I'll tell you the name. You can go look at it. People,

(01:14:15):
Everybody I send in there goes, oh my god, this
woman is nuts. She just you know, scantily clad like
OnlyFans ego maniacal. And guess who followed it, vanity light Lotus.
Let me give you another video where I look like
I really have it together and you can join me.

(01:14:36):
I'll imitate her for you. Hi, everybody, I'm doing a
dance right now because I am so loose and free
and I'm so.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
Free and I have freedom. You could have freedom too.
You can have financial freedom, you can have emotional freedom.
I teach emotional alchemy, I teach breath work, I do tapping.
I do all of these things because I feel so
good about myself and you can too. Just look at me,
look at the look at me, look at me, look
at me. She didn't want me and the children to

(01:15:06):
look at her because we know what's phony and what's real.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
It's a group of phonies. When my oldest son dropped
them off to go with Wade to Australia. When she
did that was when the rubber hit the road. That's
when Broke announced that she cheated and had a one
night stand and I loved it. I've expressed I felt
the power of domination for the first time. Guess what
Broke talk about emotional trauma? What if your children read this?

(01:15:34):
What if a friend of theirs reads this, or a
parent of a friend, which they surely will. These kids
are humiliated at school, you with your riding crop talking
about domination and BDSM and all this kind of stuff.
Your kids, my kids wouldn't would go away with them
and be embarrassed by she said she's walking around naked. Mom,

(01:15:56):
I'm dad, she walks around naked. This broke freedom. The
concept of the theory not bringing a family together didn't
bring my family together and brought separated them and brought
trauma to them that probably will. You're right, Rundle, It'll
take years to repair this trauma of watching a mom

(01:16:19):
run away from their dad and be horrible to him,
almost run them over with the car. Throw remote in
his face. They witnessed all of the punching me in
a schoolyard, a Halloween party. They witnessed all of it.
This is in their genes now and their memories. Doing
my best to deal with it, doing my best not
to defend. This is one of the ways I do.

(01:16:40):
Is there somebody out there. I've got loads of letters
if they want to read them, people that say they've
been burned and that this is a cult and this
is what. So I was reading these off of my
phone from this guy. My kids laughed at him. My
son who does not, Oh my god, I really have

(01:17:02):
These are really sweet kids. The other two sons they've
got a rough time with. They really did pick up
the energy of that mom with complete pair and alienation
from day one. I remember I was coaching one time.
My son was here, follow through. You know, he's pitching,
and he just did this really like channeling his mom.
I'll never forget the venom in his eyes. I've seen

(01:17:23):
it so many times. Venom. He took this like he
took his hand and like slit his throat, like you know,
shut up. I'll never forget that moment. It was so
painful to think that this is the energy that he
received from his mom. Palm old these kids, and she
used to talk to me about pummeling again, projection, pum

(01:17:44):
old these kids daily dose of Oh God, therapists and minors,
counselors and courts and subjecting them to this, All of
this I did not have anything to do with. But
it didn't stop her, and I got two kids that

(01:18:04):
now have a trauma for the rest of their lives
and don't speak to their father because of it. That
wasn't a cult. I can't say that was a cult.
Although she had her women's groups too, so maybe I
can say it. Get out of there. Well, I got
out of that one because I saw that comment. I
just saw this rage that was unbelievable that I could

(01:18:28):
never ever compete against Wow, and then to go to
that level. It's the worst thing you can do to
a human being. Is accused me of these things. So
if I didn't fight back, costs me a million dollars
to hold on a fifty percent custody. If I didn't
fight back, boy, I got rewarded for that. My God,
Sometimes the best deeds, no good decos unpunished. I really

(01:18:51):
held on to you're gonna have a father, have a
good father who supplies a good life. I remember I
paid her twelve thousand dollars a month. My friends would go,
I'd blow you for that whatever, and yet she would
still go around telling people she was this poor single mother.
Poor because of this mentality is an attacking mentality and

(01:19:14):
using money that we should be spent on kids to
put it into a legal system that we all know
is broke. And I encourage anyone please do not go
through a legal system if you can help it go
through other means. Try everything. I'm trying this that somebody,
some family member is going to say that's it. I've
heard enough, or maybe call our father as money an

(01:19:37):
influence and power. Maybe he sends her to a rehabilitation.
The only thing to deal with anything in life is
to be rehabilitated. It's to work a program to deprogram.
Actually say this that my coaching clients, I say, I'm
here to recondition you because we've been conditioned, and not
a good way. We'd been a conditioned to adhere to

(01:19:58):
people who are empower posiess to follow, to regurgitate all educations,
regurgitation of what they choose for you to learn. I'm
not a conspiracy theorist. That's just a fact. Columbus Sale
the Ocean Blue in fourteen hundred and ninety two, Anina Pinta,
Santa Maria. I get to repeat all that stuff. What
good does that serve me? Any good purpose? Today? I

(01:20:19):
got an A for that. Yeah, what aid does that mean? Now?
Doesn't mean anything. Values are something that I value. The
next picture that popped up right next to all of
these is a year ago, almost exactly a year ago,
right after my son's birthday. It's coming up. We went

(01:20:42):
and rescued our Buffy, our dog, who was literally the
last one, not the last one, they're the longest, literally
about to be killed, euthanized. And something happened that day.
And I like to think that it's this clearing out
that's gone going on here. Me and the children have

(01:21:02):
a pact with one another, this loving pact, and energetically
the dog just leaped right into our laps. And this
is a dog that was not wanted. It's mostly pitbull
And now I know people have prejudice. I had prejudice
towards pitbulls, so loving, so incredible to watch, but had difficulties.

(01:21:24):
And this lesson for me is somebody taught me to
pull on this chain. You know, I guess they call
them choke collars. I got one. I'm to control this dog. No,
no dominating. I was dominating, trying to get this dog
to stop attacking other dogs. The hair goes up, and

(01:21:49):
I go into a panic. Theirs goes the hair up.
She's gonna and this dog is strong. It's got some
pecks on her. She's she's lifting weights in the joint, man,
and she wants to hug you. She's gonna hug you.
So she's really great with people. Even though people are
frightened of me. They go to the other side of
the street all the time. It kind of pisses me off.
And then I go, no, that's where you would have gone, Craig,

(01:22:11):
because you were not a pit pull guy. I mean,
I wasn't that afraid. But I still there's a reputation
that's out there, just like men have this reputation of
being abusers. Me, big white man, What are all the
things that I do. I've had employees they accused me
of this that, and the other thing is like, wow,
where'd that come from. I've had all sorts of times

(01:22:33):
in my life where you get that tag, you get
that label, you're taking it off because no one else
is examining themselves to think of how they put that
label on you. They've been programmed in a cult sort
of a way. We've all been programmed, or the attempt
to program. So instinctually, with intuition, I changed the relationship

(01:23:01):
with our dog Buffy, and suddenly something inside of me said,
be gentle. What has the other done is bring the
energy of anger, frustration, of angst, worry. That's what it's
bringing on. Worried she's gonna she's gonna stay like this.

(01:23:22):
Oh my god, I gotta give her back. I was
tempted first, Yeah, there's another situation in my life. Man,
do I need this? And then lotus in the cult
way that she is broke or promised. The dog was
supposed to shuttle between the children, between the houses wherever
the children where the dog was gonna go, and she
stopped that had excuses lied as usual, God, she lies,

(01:23:47):
Oh my god, she'd say, listen to this one. I
my landlord would not allow this. And then a week
later she's got two dogs there that she's dog sitting
that's the truth. That's the level of lying she can do.
Then another reason that she's too big of So the
landlord's going to go over with a tape measure. And meanwhile,

(01:24:10):
can you care what about two dogs as you have here?
She's done that if several times dog sits because there's
money involved, money and manipulation is involved, because it's manipulating.
This is another person she's trying to get into her
her multi level marketing. Everybody's a mark for the multi
level marketing, by the way, not all multi level marketing,
not all people, just like not all people in any religion.

(01:24:31):
That's the thing. I said something yesterday on Facebook. I said,
I did you know this whole joke about what it
really means to be a personal coach and life coach
and all that. I just took it down this funny.
But one person goes, not all of us are that way,
and well I'm here for good for people. Well, so good, good,
you go do that. But there are people that aren't

(01:24:54):
are this way. They are con artists, scammers. They're out everywhere.
Every cult has them, every element of society has them.
Somebody scamming out there. And this is sh This woman's
on a scam, my ex wife. So even with the dog,

(01:25:19):
so I started to be in a radical acceptance, which
always helps me. I started walking the dog with peace
and harmony and no matter what happens. This again is metaphorical.
It's a metaphor for me dealing with my ex. The
answer isn't to come forward at her, keep challenging her,

(01:25:41):
which I still do because I slip. Sometimes I'll cut
and paste something that somebody else says, like, can you
be proud of yourself with this? This is what people
are saying. There's reviews, nothing stops her because she's that
far in love with this woman. People are saying as
a lesbian thing that I don't know some things I
don't know, and I wouldn't share it if I if

(01:26:02):
I I mean, I'm not going to share something if
I don't know it, so I'll admit it. I have
no idea if their lovers. I know they went away
to two different medicine journeys together, which at the time
Rundle was the affair. And I remember her coming back.
I go, you know, okay with that? You know she
was fine with them. These are little indications. I go, oh,
she's fine with that. She's gonna be fine with her

(01:26:23):
own affair. That's what I said to myself. I had
no idea what she's planned. Still don't even know about affairs.
I know she's a boyfriend now, but I have no idea.
But it's not about that. It's about the affair on
our family is taking hundreds of hours to listen to
this woman who's taking you. You're taking your whole soul away,

(01:26:45):
all based on you being underneath her and her down
line on whatever multi level marketing businesses she has, and
then convincing her that this is all part of it,
to share these sexual feelings, to share all of the
FeAs that you have. Somehow this is a part of
their business makes no sense. There's nothing in business that

(01:27:07):
says this is what you do. There's no success track record,
but this is just what they do. And then they
get wrapped up in themselves and their egos and they
all encourage each other to share this stuff. It's so vacuous,
it's so phony. When my son dropped them off to
go to Australia, I think I was telling you this.
My oldest son at the time. He was like, you know,
probably twenty young twenties or whatever. I remember him coming

(01:27:30):
back and saying, oh my god, are they phony? These
women are phonies? And he got it. Many people get it.
The problem is Lotus doesn't get it. So I started
with Buffy. I started this different energy which I'm pledging

(01:27:51):
to do. Also, I'm going to give this a shot
with Lotus. And I've done this before and actually has worked.
So it's again a metaphor how we are with animals.
And the results are Buffy has become so much better,
so much more at peace, and so much doesn't cause

(01:28:13):
damage in the house. One time, and a year ago, Halloween,
I came back, she got in all the protein powder.
It looked like the last scene of Scarface. Her entire
faces looking at us with this look completely covered in
powder like cocaine. Say hello right. It was unbelievable. The

(01:28:33):
whole house was destroyed just amount of time that we
went trick or treating. That's a year ago. Now I
see a dog and I reward her. I generally say
leave it, Buffy, and I can't take treats with me now,
So instead of getting punished, which causes more anxiety, she

(01:28:53):
gets a treat. Calmer, calmer, calmer, backwards a little bit
day calm again, and that is what I believe we
can do to one another. That is what I've done
with lotus in the past, and it has manifested itself

(01:29:16):
into beauty and harmony. The Mali trip was the ultimate
example of that. This trip just happened where the girlfriend
inspired me to go to take this in a different way,
to not be threatening and just. And then sure enough
the kids thanked me and said they had a wonderful time,
and I'm glad that they did with their mom. And

(01:29:37):
she didn't do anything wrong or attacking of me. So
that's the answer. Again, I'm going through some sadness and
some pain. It's really rough to watch. This whole thing
has been rough to watch, to see this person take

(01:29:58):
this road. Yeah, she went on these medicine journeys with them,
and I have no idea what that did to her brain.
The same person who was the shaman suddenly were paying
her nine thousand dollars. This Robin, who has a coaching program,
after coaching them through this medicine journey, well, now I
got you vulnerable enough this minute. They took some plant medicine.

(01:30:19):
I have no idea even what it was. She didn't
explain it to me. One day she came back and
I'm the king, and next time I'm divorced. Which is
it the problem with these journeys, especially given by people
that are unqualified, and especially by charlatans that are trying
to get you to pay them for a coaching program,
of which, by the way, Broke benefit it. Broke benefited

(01:30:41):
from what was it called there's some crypto thing? And
I had to find that out that she convinced me
to invest in this crypto thing that completely crashed down
to zero. Well, you invested in it, I said, yeah,
you didn't tell me about it. You didn't tell me
that Broke was getting commissioned for it. Just these lies
and these lies and these lies, and it becomes okay,

(01:31:08):
it becomes okay. And when these lies are part of
your system, it's a poisoned system. Your family system is poisoned. First,
I have to look at myself. How do I bring
these lies about? Am I causing fear that she thinks
that she has to lie? But am I doing that?
I can surrender that I can change my behavior, just

(01:31:29):
like I did with Buffy. How can I feed instead
of take away or punish. That's the conundrum. That's the thought.
That's what goes on is and I go back and forth,
and I have a good practice and not so good
practice when I'm thin on the practice is when things
happen that are really frustrating. When I didn't practice, like

(01:31:50):
with this girlfriend, I look, it was meant to be obviously,
she exposed herself quickly, thank God, right when I was by,
and the whole bill of goods turns out not a
good person that would do something like this, And wow,
what a smile on her face. Wow, what beauty? Wow
what you know helping me in this way? And then

(01:32:13):
I find I found out this is the same thing
with my ex. Before this, I had an illusion that
the help that was given to me was beautiful, and
now I get it was part of the control. I'm
going to make this guy into what I'm going to
make him into. And that's the way I remember, you know,

(01:32:37):
the X before this, she would, you know, teach me
how to deal with grief and some difficult things. She said,
here's what you need to do, here's what you need
to do. And I actually looked at it as wow,
it's so nurturing. And now I know she wanted to
make this guy into what she wanted to make me into.
The same with Lotus, saying, with this girlfriend, I'm going

(01:32:58):
to get this guy to listen to me, to let
me coach him. And meanwhile, if I say something back
to her, you're not coaching me. So I'm not coaching you.
So before more was revealed, sometimes people are things or
God or whatever you want to call it, does things
you won't do for yourself. I never would have stopped

(01:33:19):
that relationship, No way. I was going to go in
and learn my little lessons to get off the phone
and stuff like that. You know, in due time. Now
I learned that one at this time. Get off my
damn phone. You know. My mom said it, my kids
said it. I get it. So I ask you, are
you willing to drop things and hear an ethereal voice

(01:33:45):
inside of you that guide you? Or do we want
to just stay the same and go get those voices
that agree with us. That's what she has with Rundel
and with Broke and with their tribe that they call
it the tribe. Oh god, these white people, the tribe

(01:34:09):
tribes were taken away in this country. They really were.
I God, I have studied that history. It's just awful
what we've done. And that's what this is. This is
annihilating culture. It's annihilating moras and values that have worked.

(01:34:29):
We get to those places it works. They're calling love
at the base. There's another documentary about Love and the Mother,
and there's so many documentaries. It's all the same. They're
getting people who are not willing to look inside of
themselves or find people that will encourage them to look
inside of themselves, and they're doing it for them and

(01:34:52):
giving them their answers. It's like cheating on a test,
and to give your answers when you have all of
the answers. I have all the answers inside of me.
It's a self discovery. It's an expedition. It keeps on
going on, and now I want my life that I deserve.

(01:35:12):
All I want is to heal and love. That's what it's.
That's what it's down to. It's healing. It's a part
of my healing. Thank you for joining. Got more to

(01:35:33):
say the next time, but I'll save it. I should
divide these things up. It sucks so much