1 of 2 - Interview w/ "Wild Bill" Holbert

William Holbert, also known as Wild Bill, is a self-confessed murderer, and ex-cartel hitman from Hendersonville, North Carolina. He is currently serving a 46-year sentence for the killings of five Americans in Panama.
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Episode Transcript

(00:03):
This podcast contains adult content. Someof the themes or topics may include information
on murder, kidnapping, torture,dismemberment, maybe some demonic content with information
on positions and paranormal activity. Thispodcast will also include explicit, horrible,

(00:26):
and foul, socially unacceptable, totallyuninhabited adult themes language. So, if
you're easily offended, if you're easilytriggered, then I highly suggest you turn
this off now, and if not, just keep in mind parental discretion is

(00:47):
advised. Wild Bill, welcome tothe show. Very happy to have you
on here today. And for peoplewho do not know who you are,
you are doing prison time in Panamaright now. I think about forty six

(01:12):
years was your sentence for being ahit man and killing five Americans down there.
The shock and all factor of theintroduction is totally over, Bill.
Why don't you go ahead and introduceyourself. Well, mine's William Hallbor William
Dathan Hallberd. Everybody in the wholeworld calls me wild Bill. I'm forty

(01:34):
three years old. I'm serving fortysix years, forty six years and five
months inside the worst prison system inCentral America, in Panama. I've been
in prison for twelve years in sixmonths, and I was rested in two
thousand and ten. In July oftwo thousand and ten. Yeah, I'm
serving forty six years sentence in Tuplahamas. So I grew up in the United

(01:57):
States. I grew up in NorthCarolina in the mountains of the Redden hit
from there, and now I findmyself here. It's been a long and
crazy ride to get from one questionto another. I was a professional killer,
a hitman, and a cartel associatehere in Central America, or were
active between the years of two thousandand five and two thousand and ten when
I was arrested. Wow, man, that is crazy, and I cannot

(02:20):
wait to find out how you gotfrom a kid in North Carolina to where
you are now. But let's startoff with your childhood, man, Like
what kind of childhood you have?Was pretty normal or was it a bad
one? Or you know, Ireally had a normal childhood. That's the
thing that you know. People like, for instance, people people think of
a killer or like a serial killer. They they try to brand me as

(02:43):
a serial killer, which scares me. I don't I don't want to be
a serial killer. That sounds horrible. I mean, what I did was
bad enough, don't get me wrong, But but I was a professional killer,
meaning I'm killing for hire for money. I had a great childhood.
My parents had two you know,my parents lived together, were married,
it was very they were all alwaysin church, and so I had a
really normal childhood. I didn't doany of that, like hurting animals or

(03:07):
none of that stuff, you know. And and I just had a really
normal and good childhood. I playedAmerican football in high school, married my
high school sweetheart, had three kidsquickly. You know. It was a
normal in a really normal life untilall that sort of fell apart. How
do you get, you asked earlier, how do you get from like a

(03:27):
normal existence to this madhouse existence thatI'm living now and have been living.
And I'm telling what happened to me. I had always had aspirations of being
a politician. And when I gotdivorced, the one when did it all
go wrong? And I'll tell itto you. It's like this, And
I got divorced, and because we'rein a custody battle and several of the

(03:49):
things actually gave us both contempt ofcourt, found us book. Me and
my ex wife in contempt of court. And when that happened to the court,
and he gave me three weeks inprison, two weeks, excuse me,
fourteen days in prison in jail,and I lost it. I said,
if you are you out of yourmind? I lost it in court.
I said, I'm played by allof the rules, literally, and
I had, I really had playedby all the rules. And and you're

(04:09):
gonna put me in jail, you'llmake me a criminal. And so I
told and I don't know, Isnapped, I really, I mean,
it really broke some me. Iwas trying really hard to do everything right.
And it was a terrible was areally rough divorce, you know.
And and so I told my lawyer. My lawyer's name was bild Guard though.
He was this old country boy fromwesterns from Hendersonville, North Carolina.

(04:30):
And I told him, I said, get me to that thing on the
weekends. Tell him I'll do iton the weekend. So he says,
okay, he'll do He'll set thetime, but he wants to start it
on the weekends. He's got ajob. Blah blah blah. I didn't
have a job. I said,my own I was my own business,
had my own business. But sohe got me to let me do it
on the weekends, and you'll neversee me again. It's the last time
you'll ever see me. And Itold him I remember specifically this line.

(04:53):
I said it. I've never neverin my mind. I said, if
they want to see a fucking criminal, I'm gonna show him the best damn
criminal there is. And I did, And that's exactly why I did.
I went mad, I mean notmad. I went really actually, really
good at what I was doing.And so I can't really talk about anything
I did in the States because Idon't want to have another case. And
most of those things have passed theStatute of limitations. But I never killed

(05:15):
him by the United States ever.But I did do some things I shouldn't
have done, and to a massabout three hundred thousand dollars, and I
had been to Costa Rica's about threehundred thousand dollars, and I took the
duct tape and put it one hundreddollar bills and three hundred thousand dollars and
one hundred doll business. It isn'tvery much, I mean, it doesn't
want very much. It's very small, actually, And so I put it
on the inside of my thighs.I was pretty fat back then, and
I dook taped it to the insideof my thighs snatched up. My girlfriend

(05:39):
said, let's get out of here, but I got I went to the
Bahamas person and from Bahamas sus toMexico, and from Mexico Belize, and
from Belize s Salavador, Salvador,Costa Rica. I had been to Costa
Rica on vacation in twenty thirteen,and it was the only place I've ever
been outside of the United States exceptfor Ireland. I went to Ireland once
as well, and so I thought, you know, when you don't know

(06:00):
what you're doing, you go whereyou know. And I went to this
like super far out in jungle placein Costa Rica called Putupo Yo and the
Talamnica. So I went back thereand just kind of like, I don't
know what I'm gonna do, butI got three hundred grand, you know,
And so that money went fast.And that's another thing when you're living
as a fugiti if your money goesfast, and it's not like there's another
thing too. It like if you'reliving as a fugitive anything like you just

(06:23):
go and get a job man.I mean, you can't put roots downy,
or you can't buy any property,you can't do anything like that,
because I mean, who knows what'sgonna happen to you, And you're always
looking over your shoulder and some soforth, and you might have to run
any time. And I didn't knowhow wanted I really wasn't, not very
much. I think at that timeI thought that I was really wanted,
but I was on America. Ididn't come out on America as must wanted
once. But I don't think thatI was just wanted as I thought.

(06:46):
I wasn't. Nobody's really looking forme, you know. I mean,
like I think when you are afugitive, they just kind of sit back
and wait for you to screw up. And I didn't because I wasn't in
the United States and they didn't know. They didn't know that I wasn't in
the United States. So so they'rejust like waiting, you know, when
you when you're like a fugitive.How many fugit how many tens or hundreds
of thousands of fugitives are there inthe United States A bunch, and so
the government just sits back and waitto get stopped at the traffic stop,

(07:06):
or you get arrest or something,or you make a mistake and while they
you know, they got your courts. So that that's what that's how they
chase you, so to speak,as a fugitive. And I like,
if you're a high profile fugitive,maybe they do do some sort of man
hunt. But I wasn't. SoI started working as a boat captain.
I found this guy and on accidentand I started working just like by capping
stance. But every this is anotherthing I wanted to say. Everybody thinks,

(07:28):
like, hey, man, CentralAmerica is the Banana Republic, you
know, Costa Rica, Panama,Nicaragua. I mean there's no rules here
or not really. I mean it'sthe Golden rule. Who he who has
the gold rules? You know?And so I started working for this guy
who who removed Asian people from thePanama Canal up to Jamaica, and I
assume from there on into the UnitedStates. And they weren't slaves. They

(07:49):
weren't. It was like a humantrafficking slavering. It was actually people who
paid like up to ten thousand botheast to be smuggled in the United States.
And so but we were doing likea week out of there, and
so I like can do two tripsa week, sometimes three. I mean
that would be like on a hundredtwenty years. I was saying, like
forty forty five people at a time, sometimes sixty either, and I took
them from book of self toural onPanama to like almost just outside of the

(08:11):
Internet, just still in the Internetaside Jamaican waters in Jamaica. And then
those Jamaicans came off the shore andpicked him up and carried him in.
I don't know what happened to himafter that. And I started working out
for making good money. It wasmake trerip four thousand ars a week or
three fourt thout o the load,so it was like six thousand dollars a
week, eight thousands ars a week. I was making a good money.
I was happy, and I don'twant to get too deep into it.
But what they did that signed mea security a guy who was supposed to

(08:33):
work as security because we're on abig blad open boat with forty you know,
Asian people, and so they assignedme this security guy who was a
guy from the United States, andhe was just a total disaster as a
security, and I ended up weended up getting in a fist fight and
he got killed in the incidant.I killed him. I was defending myself.
That really happened at three o'clock inthe morning, floating on the open
ocean of waiting on the boss ofthe past. So what a brigging nightmare

(08:56):
that was. And I will knowwhat to do. And I was like,
you know, I'm a fugitive.So I'm like, oh, I'm
gonna call the police and explain that. You know, I'm I'm a fugitive
involved in a criminal enterprise. Hen'tcall the cops. Man, So I
call it boss, and I'm like, I got a problem to who comes
to see And he says no,he said, I said, we have
a problem. He said, wedon't have a problem. You have a
problem. I didn't see shit.He said, here's your money, here's

(09:18):
his money. You figure it out. I didn't see anything. I paid
you both. So he left andthat was how they handled it, like
they don't know, they don't care, you know. So I buried the
Boddy and I left. I left, the cartel left. I got out.
I didn't want I was afraid,so I moved. I moved my
my I moved house to another placeand just tried my very best to disappear,

(09:39):
which he didn't work. And Icame to Pantoma, to another side
of I was living in Costa Ricaat that time. I was working in
Panama. I was living in CostaRica. And then and I did I'm
really cool. I didn't go areally cool time in Costa Rica. I
haven't told this to anybody, actually, And so this would be like the
first time on your show I livedin this place, in this country club
that you get this story out.This is this is interesting. There was
a guy named Roll. His nameisn't wrong actually, but but I'm gonna

(10:01):
call him that. He was aGerman guy who had like he ran horse.
He was a pimp, but likehigh end, like super high end.
Right. So We're sitting one nightin this bar in the Best Western
hotel in Eta Su, like theEta Su Best Western Hotel and San Jose,
Costa Rica, and I'm getting drunk. And the reason I drank there
is because it's mostly Americans and stuff, and it was mostly foreigners, not

(10:22):
just Americans but exact expatriots. Andso he comes and sits down beside me,
and he's bitching. He said,I got you know, he said,
I got a lot of money,and I'm and I saw masking and
what he does. And he didn'treally tell me straight out. I mean
he didn't tell me, oh,I run horse. He didn't say that.
But he's like, well I dothis and that, you know,
try to keep everybody happy. SoI said well, and I said,
well, you know what you pissedoff about sis. He said, well,
somebody, dis guys mean money hasme twenty five thousand dollars and it's

(10:46):
not that it's the money in situation. It said, I can't have somebody
slide me in front of this crowdbecause and I said, well, well
I'll go get it for you.And he said, well how, he
said, can you do that?I was like, yeah, just give
me the drest and where I'll goget it. So I did it.
I went and took a bat ballbat and I one got his fucking money
and I brought him. I broughthim twenty five thousand dollars in cash from
the guy. I mean, that'sa story and the supper will leave it

(11:07):
there. And I gave him thetwenty five grand and he was like ecstatic.
He was like, holy shit.Really, I'm like, yeah,
man, here's your money. Andand I thought he was gonna give me
like three or four grand. Hegives me twelve grand. Gives me half
of it because he said it waslike it was like money that he had
lost he didn't even think about.So he invited me to come to the
to his country club. He said, I, you know, I want
to introduce you to some people.You're very efficient, and I wanted to.

(11:30):
I want to introduce you to somepeople. He said, do you
have any good clothes? And Isaid no, I don't actually, and
so he sent me some. Hesent me to get tailored and I one
got taylored and you got to likethe breast mice. And so I went
to the Berlin country club, RialaKadiyatti. That's what was Riala Kadiatti country
Club, which is like a cityin San Jose, but it's a city
that's gated. It's a literal gatedcity that the police man. You can

(11:54):
go in, but everybody that goesin that doesn't live there, it gets
their yet their identification number written down. She let me. It's like super
say, but that's where the presidentlives. That's where all the people that
live in the National Assembly, allthe people have money live there, and
they're all members of that country club. So he takes me to this country
club and he starts introducing me around, and starts introducing me around. Is
life. Somebody can fix problems.And so I'm like having a good time.

(12:15):
You know, I'm getting drunk andlike rubbing elbows was like the most
the richest people in Panama. It'sreally cool. And so there's this guy
and he comes up to me asa judge. He's as a circuit judge
there being important guy. He comesup and says, well, my daughter's
was this Columbian guy, and Idon't want him to be there, and
blah blah. I really like itif you'd be able to, you know,
encourage him not to be with mydaughter, because you know, I
wanted to marry a posta Rican fromour case, you know, system and

(12:37):
sons of it. So I did. I went to my baseball bat and
I went and convinced the Columbian guythat he wasn't going to be with the
girl little girl anymore. And itworked. So the next week I go
back to the meeting to talk toto go back to the country club.
The next three days, Like threedays later, I go back to the
country club and the judge comes runningacross the room and like gives me big
hug in front of everybody, andhe's like, oh God, you saved

(12:58):
my family. I'm so excited.I'm so thankful, and something like everything
worked out to your extrasfaction. It'slike, yeah, I thought maybe you'd
give me four five grand. Hegives them a check for twenty five thousand
dollars, so I'm like, holyshit, this is cool. So on
what I did is I talked tothe German guy who runs prostitutes. But
I mean, like we're talking aboutprostitutes a couple of thousand O a night,
you know, I mean like highend stuff. He got me set

(13:20):
up with an apartment. They're inthe country club, and I didn't do
anything else for like eight months aset for work in that country club there,
and then I was so happy.I would have been happy living there
for the rest of my life.I mean, this is I was living
be life man, I mean likemoney, you know, cars, had
a nice place to live, Imean, like you know, untouchable,
really just being the muscle for theseCosta Ricans and far and wealthy people.

(13:45):
But they call me one night tohelp them get rid of a body,
and I did. I went.I went and gave them mind vice is
what we should do with it,and they didn't follow it. And when
they didn't follow it, I said, well, it's screw it. I'm
leaving. I'm not gonna be apart of it. You guys are like,
what you guys are gonna do isgonna get us in trouble. So
I mean, I'm not gonna bepart of that. We should do this,
we should do this with it,and they wanted to do another thing
with it. So I left andlike the body got found sure enough,

(14:09):
and my name came out in umin like the people that were wanted to
talk about it. Somebody's writing,somebody was writing about who who was there.
Somebody's squealing on us and telling uswho who was there? And so
I had to leave cost Rick andI left that life system. But that
was the best life system that Iever lived. Never kill anybody, didn't
have to kill anybody. And Iwas just working in this like this muscle
for those guys, and that wasa really good lit I mean even now,

(14:31):
even to that was that was sucha good time. It's a shame
that it got screwed up. Butthen when I can't, I had to
run again. And I mean,like I could run to Nikka, I'd
wore a Pantoma. I gotta goto one another because now I'm so I'm
so hot. I can't travel inthe air. I can't travel on a
plane because I can't leave Costa Ricaon a plane because they've got my name
on a list. So the onlyway, I only way can goes to
Nikka I U or I can goto Phantom and Nikka I was a shipole.

(14:52):
I mean there's nothing there. There'sno work for a guy like me.
There's no money there. And inPhantoma, you know, it's a
fairly wealthy country. Not wealthy isCosta Rica, by the way. Costa
Rica's like Beverly Hills. But Panama'sa fairly for a third world country.
I mean it's fairly wealthy. It'sa developing nation, but it's fairly wealthy
country. And so and there area lot of foreigners there. And that's
the thing. A guy like me, I can't go to somewhere there's no
partners to stick out like a pieceof salt and a pepper shaker. You

(15:15):
know, you can't. You gottago somewhere there people like you to be
able to cover yourself. So whenI was in Panama, I wasn't in
Panama very long. I didn't knowwhat to do. And this is funny.
I didn't know what to do.So I went to this place called
will Katam. We'll get this,a little expat American expat town, and
I set up shop there. Ididn't know what to do, so I'm
like, what am I gonna do? So I got to come up with
a new gig, you know,And so I did as I rented an

(15:37):
office on the square and I setup shop as a psychiatrist. Doctor William
Reese was my name. I wasdoctor William Reason. I set up as
as a psychiatrist to the to theexpat community and the expatriate community there,
and I started treating patient man andI was making for a good money there
too. And I went on forabout eight months. Went on for about
eight months, and I got togo all the big parties and actually played

(15:58):
car worked with Mel Gibson. Iwas telling telling a girl about this the
other day I got to play cardswith Gibson there and by Escondido, which
is um Getty community there as doctorWilliam as a psychiatrist, Doctor William Rees.
Then, uh, one day oneof the guys from mowing the old
buddies from the cartel noticed me there, or I guess I made enough noise

(16:19):
to where they saw me, andthen they pulled me back in. And
when they pulled me back in,it was like, you're gonna do what
we're gonna say. We're gonna putyour ass in jail. You know,
we didn't know what you did.How you know I'm saying. I was
like screwed, literally like screwed.So I went back to doing the same
thing again. I went back tohaving to work as a ship captain or
boat cap like ships, a boatcaptain for those guys carrying Chinese folks human

(16:42):
trafficking. I did that for againfor just a little while. And in
my life I was really unhappy.You know. I begin to drink a
lot, a lot, and Imean I had a lot of money,
a great deal of money, butmy life was real shit. I mean,
it was just a terrible life.I'm not joking to it. This
was no, we're talking, we'reabout we're in two thousand and six,
two thousand and seven, two thousandand six or two thousand and six.

(17:03):
My life was a real hell.I'm controlled by people who I don't care
about. I'm a fugitive, I'mreally out of shape. I was really
fat. I was spending all mymoney on hose. I mean, just's
been straight and coat and cocaine.Whos shit like that, and I mean,
and it was just a terrible life. I mean, I mean,
I'm not gonna lie to you,man. I mean, if you wake
up or you go out one evenand you're with four naked chicks in a

(17:26):
bed and you got a mountain ofcocaine, that's a good day. I
mean, you're gonna have fun.But you can't confuse pleasure with happiness because
they're two different things completely, Becausetomorrow them host go back to their husbands
and ship and that mountain of cocaine'sgone, and now you got to go
back to work kill people to keepthat terrible last tile lift tile. So
my life is really terrible. Inthat time period, I contemplate killed myself

(17:51):
several times, and I just figuredI never ever even remotely thought I'd go
to prison because I've been so eat, I had so easily have they did
the already, It's my whole life. I mean, you know, I've
been a criminal career criminal enough forabout ten years, and I had been
really easy for me to not thatlong, but like six years, and
it has been really easy for meevery single turn to they the authorities,
and so I became kind of arrogantabout that. But I thought that somebody

(18:15):
would kill me because I offen myold boss and to become the boss.
And so I figured that's probably whatwould happen to me. And no big
deal, right because I had agood run then. I don't want to
talk about individual murders and it wasyour cases stuff like that. But what
happened to me was I got ratedon and had to run from Panama and

(18:37):
threw a crazy, crazy scheme ofevents. Ended up in Nikka. I
was and getting picked up in nickOr. I was by the Nicka Rouban
military, deep into the Jamie Generaltrying I was trying to escape. But
I mean, like I'm on everytelevision ship and set in the nation to
me, and I was like,you remember when that recently when that guy
escaped from prison with that chick thatwas a security guard. Yeah, definitely,

(18:57):
and Panama and Costa Rica, Nica. I was bigger than that.
I mean I was like on TVfor like an hour every day. Then
where's doing this? About? Whereis the wild build? Where is the
wild building? And you know,like in the jungle watching this one's on
the battery operated it that. Youknow, my ass is so puckered,
it's tearing a hole in the seat. You know, I'm scared of this.
So it was a really situation.And then through a just a real,

(19:21):
just an accident, the Nicka Rodmanmilitary picked me up. And they
only picked me up because they're like, why is there a kringo out here
in the jungle? And they pickedme up and then they took me to
myn odwa and found out who Iwas. Them of madness began and they
flew to me. I didn't knowwhat the thinging, you know, And
I've got my wife with me.She was my wife or my girlfriend.
She was she lived as my wife. She wasn't ever my wife. I

(19:42):
never married her, but but Iintroduced her every where's my wife and she
lived as my wife. And Isaid they took us us on a plane.
All dirty hadn't like eaten her bathedin like two weeks when they stuck
us on plane and sentence back thePanama. I arrived in Panama and the
president of Fantoma, who's actually somebodyI know now who actually I get along

(20:03):
with very well, But back inthose days he didn't know me. Obviously,
I'm just a monster for him.M Ricardodo Monty Nelly was his name,
and he is. He organized thishuge press conference that we've captured the
beast, you know, like KingKong is gonna come off the plane,
and that's what happened. I comeon the plane. They stuck a camera
in my face and they were like, lower your head and put this rag
over your head. I'm like,fuck you, I'm not lowering my head

(20:25):
for nobody. I'll I'll build.I started making a joke. I got
to making a joke out of thewhole thing. So Martin Elli, I
didn't speak to that and good ofSpanish, I mean, but I mean
he spoke fairly well, fairly well, but I mean not like I do
now. I'm fluent now, I'mlike like a like a local. But
back in those days. I spokefairly well and Martin Elli stalk. He's
talking the president and he says,hey, well, we want to thank
the Panama Many and forces for capturingthis monster. And I raised my chained

(20:47):
hands, and all the cameras BBC, ABC, NBC, I mean,
like all the seas, you know, tell Metro Telepica from Costa Rica.
All the news cameras turn and they'reon the Beast and we're gonna listen to
is the Beast going to say?And I said, hey, boss,
excuse me, but the pantomoni andauthories are a bunch of dipshits, y'all
letting me go. So the nickerRod once it captured me, and there

(21:11):
was this complete silence that draws onfor like eight seconds, and then somebody
started to laugh, and everybody startedto laugh. And so then they asked
me, said well, what doyou think about what do you think about
your future? And I said,well, the future is unsure for everybody,
but I feel pretty good about thefuture. And they said, well,
what do you think about being capturedand brought back? I'm like,
well, I feel pretty good.They just gave me a free plane right

(21:33):
on the private Planer now I'm goingto the Hoya for a vacation. Loya
is a prison here, and Isaid, I'm going to the Hoya for
a little vacation and I'm sure we'llwork something out. And everybody just dying,
laughing, you know, like that'snot what they were expecting at all.
And they were expecting me, likeBella shamed, to be like some
kind of crazy monster or something.So I played games with them, but
then they took me the District Attorney'soffice, and then the madness began.
Now all of the things I'm talkingto you about from the moment I was,

(21:55):
from the moment I picked myself upand ran from Pantoma, I wrote
in a memoir, and the firstyear, my first year in prison,
I wrote about it in a bookthat I probably should go Long Live the
King. Well, Bill, ifyou guys will want to know more about
me, well you guys, goand check that book out a Long Live
the King. Pick it up onAmazon. Also, if you want to
interact me, anybody that's out therein the world listening can interact correctly with

(22:17):
me by either going to Facebook atFriends of Brother Bill, or you can
go to Instagram at Holiness Bill,and I'll ask our generous host j R.
If you want to post those onsomewhere. I'm absolutely able for the
listeners. I'll post those links inthe episode description along with Twitter and Instagram
and Facebook and everything. Yeah,will definitely definitely get your contact Infoe and

(22:41):
your book in Foe out there forsure, because I actually am going to
be ordering the book as well.Let me ask your opinion. What what
There's another book written about you aswell, wasn't there the jolly cocksucker wrote
that book. I'm like to addressthat. I've been trying to address that
guy. You gotta talk addressing rightnow. If you want to what happened

(23:03):
is he on? No, absolutelynot. But if you want to air
it out, air it out,because I saw that when I was looking
for your book, Yeah, exactly. Here's what happened about that. I
was in two thousand and thirteen,my lawyer, Claudia Almarad, who was
a good friend of mine, dearfriend of mine, like my sister,
said Hey, Bill, we gota guy's gonna write a book about you.
Let's make some money. I said, let's do it, you know,
because like shit, being famous hasn'tpaid me anything to the moment.

(23:26):
This isn't two thirteen. I wasn'teven didn't even a sentence yet. And
by this time I'd already put myselfin charge completely of the prison. I
was already like runing the prison therein in this this prison that doesn't exist
anymore called the public prison anyway.So this guy, Nick Foster comes down
to the skinny guy, I tallguy, very well addressed, British guy,
English guy, comes in. Heshakes my hands just then we sit

(23:48):
down and it's okay, dude,what give me your proposal? What you
want to do? And he said, well, I'm writing a book about
you. I mean, I can'twrite a book about you. I'm talking
to you, right. So I'mlike, okay, cool, Well let's
do an interview. Man. Isaid, I do give me ten thousand
dollars will do the interview, whichI thought was a very meager something.
Now I understand before anybody says,oh, you greedy bastard hey man and
family in prison, they don't giveyou so them give you to a favor.
The don't give you food. Thenthey don't give you food, they

(24:08):
don't give you uniforms. You gottabuyll that ship if you don't have any
money, you fucking die. So, I mean, this is the reality
of I have to generate cash.It's not like, oh, I'm being
greedy because I want a candybar.No. I mean if I don't make
anyone like I just sent my girlfriendstoday, but buy my food. Its
three hundred ars for a months,just for the food. Just for my
food, you know, three hundredbooks, so I said to him.

(24:30):
And so I like, here Iam airing out my complaints of my life
to you guys through listeners. ButI mean, it's just the truth.
You know, you have to generatecash in order. If I said,
to give me ten grand and I'lldo your interview, and he says,
well, it's not ethical for meto pay a murderer to talk about murders.
I'm like, it's not for youto pay my murder esthical for you
to make a million dollars I'll sellin a fucking book. And I said,

(24:52):
well I want to. My exactwords were, well, why don't
you just go and fuck yourself?So I got up, I stood up,
and I walked out of the room. He left. Then like three
two years later, I don't rememberhow long I left. Two years later,
I saw that he published a bookcalled Jollant Roger Social Club Base on
an interview that he had with me. He never had an interview with it,
that never occurred. And I readsome I didn't read. I wouldn't

(25:14):
I wouldn't buy such a piece ofgarbage. But I read in one of
the reviews where he talked about inhow he had confronted me, like,
man, I would pore his headoff if he talked to me that way.
What did he talking about the world? Is this goon? And you
know, Western journalism is really likedragon. This is supposed to be like
a like a respected journalist. Man, what a bunch of crap. Anyway,

(25:37):
so that book is a garbage.Well, he's donna buy it,
or if you do buy it,take it with a grand salt, because
he saw the fantasy. Yeah.I read a lot of the reviews on
it, and they were basically saying, well, I mean he tried some
of them weren't very kind of reviews, so so you should know that.
And so I mean, it's apretty pretty ridiculous story. And then and
then another run in I had withthe media, and I'd say something so

(26:00):
I lived. I'll go like this. I lived nine years in the defeat
of the prison as the I organizedthe religious services, I organized the muff
is into a workable system on theends of where they didn't kill any of
each other anymore. And I putmyself in a position to be benefited normously

(26:21):
financially because of that. And becauseof that, when you're gracing the parties
with more money than they making theirsalary like the head prison guard and makes
like the head the head of thekeep, the security chief of the jail
at twel hundred ards a month,but I'm giving him two thousand dollars a
month. Who does he work for? It works for me. So I
had a really good life. Butone thing happened. I was really I

(26:41):
grew a conscious, which so hardto believe for a guy like me,
I know, but but I acceptedJesus Christ as my personal savior, and
that's hard for a lot of peoplebelieve. It's true. And I grew
a conscious when I was there andI saw how the people who were poor,
the actual Pandemonians who are poor,were living, and it was detestable.
I mean, they're guys there thatwere like eat up with suberculosis and

(27:02):
aids and stuff, and so wetried to do something for those guys.
We all tuberculosis I cured. Ididn't do it myself with not my magic
hand, but I organized organized todrive the cure all tuberculosis into prison.
All the ladies from the churches theUnited States helped us, and we got
that done. And that was acompletely honest thing I did. I'm really
proud of that. Actually, Idon't know how many we like twenty six

(27:23):
guys, so I don't know howmany guys would have died. Several at
least half of those guys would havedied if we did trench. That was
good and then and so we didsome things. But I grew a conscience
about watching how the authorities treated mistreatedthe back, like there are guys there
who were serving more time than they'reeven supposed to because they lost their papers,
and then instead of letting them gothere just like I leave them there.

(27:44):
So I started speaking another about that, and I was in my room
one day and a lady named SophieEvans from the Daily Mirror contacted me.
Sophie Evans said she wanted the Britishnewspaper reporter said she wanted to do a
story about human rights and Phantom,and I said that'd be great. That's
exactly what I wanted to do.And I asked her and so I didn't
interview with her. And she askedme about how high lives compared with the

(28:06):
other prisoners, and I said,well, I don't want you to do
I want it to be about tothe prisoners because I don't need the heat.
So she said she want to doan interview. Blah blah blah.
A long story short, she madethe interview about me all the privileges that
I haven't prisoned, and showed showedthe video call, which she promised she
wasn't do in line the government ofFanoma's flips. And this was in the

(28:27):
early part of twenty nineteen, andthey began trying to transfer me to this
new hell hole called Sector C.It was a new place that they had
made for enemies of the state,like prisoners that are like not like dangers,
not like Hannibal elector prisoners, butprisoners that they're angry with. And
so in October I lost that battleand they come and pick me up,

(28:48):
and she took me into this placehere I've been here for three years in
a few months, and this ifyou want to know what hell is,
man, I wasn't pretty good person. It's cool here. Somebody dies every
two days. There were forty eighthours somebody's from murdered. We just had
a gun bow here last Saturday.We could go to day. I saw
that video. Another reason for thelisteners to follow him on Instagram is because

(29:11):
I saw that video. That waspretty intense. Man. The first you
check this out, the first yearthat I was here, that had a
gun battle that killed fifteen, fifteenprisoners, prisoner own prisoner. We're talking
about gunby We're talking prisoner own prisonprisoners here to walk around with almost all
of them my arms with handguns.And then there's the occasion of play K
forty seven on the inside of prison. You know, this is this is

(29:32):
a hell on earth. And I'mwriting, actually it's done. I finished
in my second book called Concentration tohamp two thousand and it's about it's a
play by play account of what happenedduring the nineteen the two nineteen La Joya
Christmas massacre that's documented also in TheNew York Times covered that story. Actually,

(29:52):
you know, back in two thousandnineteen at Christmas time. It was
I think it was the seventeenth ofDecember two thousand nineteen. Anyway, fifteen
gang members were killed in in awar that happened that split the gag and
like people said back home, like, how does that even possible? How
could they have a gang more insidea prison for a fifteen when like all
these people are killed, the gunsand stuff. And if you want to
know that answer, the wait tillthe book comes out. It'll be out

(30:12):
in sometime in February, and gopick it up. And then that book,
Concentration Camp two thousand deals one withthat massacres. The only accounts,
the only written account First I witnessed. I spoke to all the guys who
were involved. I mean I talkedto people outside that were It happened during
a family visit, meaning when littlekids were here and stuff, and even

(30:33):
one little kid got smashed in thehead and by a cough kill. A
cop almost killed this little kid,like an eight year old kid with a
with a you know, a stick, with a you know, a billy
club. You hit him in thehead. And it was just a brought
a whole bunch of crazy shit happened. It's on the book men I wrote
about sectors. See what is sectorsees? Sector sees a saw torture for
higher facility that Panoma runs for theinternational community and for themselves, especially for

(30:56):
the international community. And you knowthe things that happened there here as well
as the third part of the bookdeals with the wisdom that I've learned being
under such arrest and pain for thelast twelve years, but especially the last
three years. Here in Hell.I'm the pastor of the church, which
is difficult to believe, but it'strue. I preach tomorrow, actually I

(31:18):
preached Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays andSundays here, and we talk about things
like how to change our awareness aboutabout treating other people that we want to
be treated. We talk obviously aboutJesus Christ. We talk about treating other
people how you want to be treated. We talk about like tomorrow, we're
talking about how our mouths are ourdevices that God listens to. Like if

(31:41):
I say to you that I hatemyself, everything's bad in my life,
God says, yes, that's exactlyhow it is. But if I say
to myself, if I say toyou, man, things are not so
bad. They're going to get better. God says, yes, that's exactly
what's going to happen to you.So we have to be careful about what
we say. We have to becareful about how we think. A lot
of us are here because as alow self esteem, we think that the
only thing that we can do iskill people, hurt people, rob people,

(32:04):
shitting like that. And so we'reworking with these kid the young kids.
There's twenty two guys in our churchhere, and I work with these
young kids trying to keep them frombeing like me. And you wouldn't believe
it. Crazy. This is Thisalways shocks me when somebody says, but
they hit to me all the time. I can't well, I want to
be like you. Bill, myGod, you want you want to forty
six years sentence for home, Isaid, nobody. I want to be
famous for it. We'll learn howto sing or something. Man, if

(32:25):
you want to be famous, don'tkill people, you know, don't do
something you know better than that.And so that's what my LIFs. I've
changed my life over and so it'sone of the reasons that I'm doing I'm
obviously trying to sell books, andthat's true, trying to gain attention for
on in Phantom, but like,really, the main reason that I'm doing
what I'm doing is because I wantto give something back to society, not

(32:45):
just this. I don't really careabout society, if you want the truth,
but I want to give something backto these kids have never had hints.
When you've got kids walking around herethat from the time they were three
years old, their mother was aprostitute. Um, ain't nobody cared about
them their whole life. They wouldwalking around in the street and all alone,
and the only family they know orthe other gang banger, you know,
the other gangbanging kids. So theyrun up and down the street being

(33:05):
a gang and happy and that's theonly thing they know. They don't know
anything. And so I ask you, is this kid who had no education
at all. Maybe you can read, maybe he can't. Is he going
to grow up a good doctor orlawyer? You know, he's going to
grow up a good gang banger becauseit's the only thing is he knows.
We gotta reach those kids. Yeah, that's honestly a big part for me
is what do you think about thepeople who were like, oh, this
guy turned to Christianity, such ahypocrite. You know, he killed five

(33:28):
people and didn't give a shit.Then why does he give a shit?
Now? Going on that, youtalked about a little bit ago having a
conscience. Now, what was goingthrough your mind when you actually took the
first hit job compared to when youtook the last hit job from the first

(33:49):
one to the last one? Wasdid it get easier? Did your conscience
just kind of go away a littlebit more each time? How did that
all evolve inside you? I thinkthat even from the first I used the
excuse, well, I'm just aweapon. I'm not killing me. I
don't want to kill these people.I'm just a weapon. And if I
don't do it, somebody else will. And that's true, there's not a

(34:12):
lot that's not a lie. IfI didn't do it, somebody else would
have. But that doesn't justify whatI did, does it. I mean,
it really doesn't. But that's thejustification I used in the time when
like, if you will like tokill people, you're sick. There's something
wrong with you. You know,if you enjoy hurting other people, you're
something wrong with you. I didn'tenjoy it. I was It was really
nerve wracking, to me, frombeginning to end. I was always nervous

(34:35):
before a job and like I'd goover sixteen times in my mind how I
was gonna do it, and likeI never get I know, guys,
they were like psychopaths. It enjoyedkilling people, enjoyed hurting people and stuff.
But I try. This doesn't makeit any better. But I mean
it just talks about who I am. You're asking who am I? Well,
I I everything. I always didthe job in a way that nobody
knew they were gonna die until theywere dead, Like literally, like nobody

(34:55):
had any idea what was about happeningbecause I don't think and I have the
balls to say, okay, JR. I've been sent to kill you.
Now you're going to die, youknow, I don't. Yeah, it
ain't a movie, yeah exactly,Like a lot of things can go wrong.
I mean if some guy, someguy knows that he's gonna die,
like he's gonna fight like hell,you know what I mean, Because he
knows he's gonna die, so heain't gonna just I mean, not everybody.

(35:17):
There are people who would just rollover, but you don't ever know
who is and who isn't. SoI mean, like, it's better to
keep the mark happy. Yeah,um, before they get so I was
nervous, like horribly nervous every time, like didn't want something to go wrong.
I didn't want to kill myself.And afterward it was like a great
relief. Think, God, that'sover, you know, And so this

(35:37):
is how I'm to find it beforeand this is how I'll define it again
at the time period. It's thisis a crude analogy, like if I
bring you a third on a plate, a piece of shit on a plate,
and I say to you, I'mgonna give you eight million dollars.
If this human turd you take abite of the third, you know him,
it's eight million bucks, and thenyou get the money and you go.

(35:57):
But that doesn't mean that doesn't meanthat you lie to each ship.
You're not a you know, you'renot a ship connel sewer, just because
I mean that's me. I didn'tenjoy killing people. It was just a
way to continue that horrible I sawthat I thought that I needed to live
at the end. By the endof the time, I was like didn't
have a conscious. I had drownedmy conscious and alcohol and the vaginas of
strange women. So I mean,I didn't have a conscience at all by

(36:20):
the time that I left, andI don't think it was like three or
four months after I was even arrested, when I was sober and like,
you could look at my life andsee you've destroyed your own life from the
life of many other people. Youimbecile that I realized that, you know,
these are my actions that cost us. I can't blame anybody else,
because when you're doing shit like that, you blame everybody else. You know,
I was the situation. Nobody understandsmy situation. And I mean,

(36:42):
wouldn't it have been better if wecould just go back in the time machine
and do the two weeks that thejudge gave me in West North Carolina when
I was when I was, youknow, twenty five years old. But
you know, we don't have atime machine, and so I can't do
anything about it. And the onlything I can do is to day forward.
You asked me, what would Isay about people say, well,
you turned to Christianna because you're inprison. I didn't have to turn to
Christianity because I was in prison.I actually could do a whole lot better

(37:04):
for myself if I didn't, ifI was really corrupt. Actually I did
for the first few years in theperson I did really well as a corrupt
mafia organis organizer. And so I'mnot doing that anymore because I don't want
to. I'm not doing anymore becauseI took the decision. I made the
decision to do the right thing.And my champions is certainly not I'm not.
I don't I'm not trying to bean example or I don't think that

(37:27):
I am an example. But itmakes me happy. When I was killing
people, when I was free,I couldn't sleep. It took me a
leader of vodka every night, youknow, a thousand middle leaders, a
little bit, a little bit,a little bit less than a course of
vodka every night just to sleep.I mean, you didn't know who it
was gonna kill you. You didn'tknow who it was gonna you know,
it was there a little helicopter withyou know, SWAT Team guys, drest

(37:51):
in black, gonna drop on topof my house in the middle of the
night, or you know, youdon't know what's gonna happen. So I
mean, there's just like no restever. And I was really on app
hated everybody and including myself. Today, after this interview, I'm gonna roll
up on the bed. I'm gonnagood sleep like a baby. I wake
up five o'clock in the morning andgo do my job and enjoy my and
I enjoy my life. My sogood. I mean, I'm in hell.

(38:12):
I'm living in hell. I'm livingin the horrible situation. I'm there's
death all around me. But I'mhappy, you know, And I'm happy
because I'm doing the right thing andmy conscience is clean for the first time
in my whole life. Yeah,and that's a big thing. Man,
that's a I've never really heard itput that way, and that's that's a
good way of putting it, Iguess, man, Like I couldn't imagine

(38:35):
getting away with it for so long. I would think personally for me,
like after the first one, Iwould have just been so fucking paranoid man,
and just getting away with it timeand time again, Like, how'd
you get away with it for solong? It's for good? In my
job, I mean, my jobwas to tell people from momming. Like
somebody says, you know, it'snot it's not even like getting away with

(38:57):
it if your clients get away withit. You get away with it,
you know what I mean, becauselike a professional killer. I mean,
like even in the States. There'sa lot of professional killers in the States,
a lot. And I mean Idon't know how many. I wouldn't
even dare yes, but i'd saymore than a thousand right now operating a
lot more than a thousand operating allover the place. And most of the

(39:19):
time people just go missing, youknow, they don't. If there's nobody,
there's no crime. And so ifyou clean up and do your job,
well, there's really very little chancethat you're gonna actually be arrested.
In the United States, I don'tknow, these statistics are old. I'm
don't look them up in years,but I'm sure it's still the same,
you know, in the last fiveyears. I've seen the statistics, and
like about forty or thirty five percentof homicides in the States go unresolved.

(39:42):
Yeah, so it's not strange thata murder would go un resolved the United
States or Europe or somewhere. It'sactually more now, it's about sixty sixty
percent un resolved. Yeah, aboutsixty percent go unsolved, And I mean
that's yeah, it's a well.Unfortunately, like they a lot of the
bigger cities are a lot more understaffed, so that's just like an average number.

(40:07):
So like a lot of the biggercities kind of pushed that number up
quite a bit for all the otherplaces that are actually you know, solving
murders and ship but yeah, lasttime it was sixty. It would be
really hard to solve a murder ina game somewhere there's a lot of gangs
because nobody saw nothing. And howare you going to solve that? How

(40:27):
did you get caught? The clientgot me to ask me to kill his
wife, and I did. Ididn't want to. I struy. I
refuse that job. I refused alot of jobs to I refused that job.
And then the the guys who ranour operation came and he said,
no, this guy's a big timeyou know judge trapper. You got to
do the job. And I saidno. I refused again, and then

(40:50):
they sent you know, people toencourage me to do the job. Let's
say, so I decided, well, I got to do it. So
I did the job. It wasreally hard for me to do actually,
because I knew the girl. Soanyway, I did at the job.
And then the same guy I readit because his family became her family came
looking for the girl. He camelooking for her and he I was in

(41:12):
Costa Rica on vacation and in themountains. I had a little cabin up
in the mountains next to Tudelawa,which is an active volcano, beautiful or
like a view of the active volcanoevery day erupting, a beautiful thing.
And I didn't even know what wasgoing on. And I'm a friend of
mine from the Panamanian d Holta,which is d i J d hota d
i J, which is the sameas it was like a the American fbis

(41:35):
the Panama's version. If he calledme, I worked with them a lot
of the Bolsic actually with the government. He called me and he said,
hey, man, you're they justissued in a restaurant for you in a
search want for your house? AndI said one. He said, I
don't know, you got somebody infuinfieltrado. He had an a rat And
I'm like, well, my house, there's nothing, man, they ain't
even know guns in my house.Let him searching my dam house. Well,
what I didn't know was that theguy had took a whole bunch of

(41:58):
the belongings of the girl and putlike on the kitchen table of my home.
And my damn watching man. There'sa watching man and family was a
guy who like, it's like asecurity the security from my home. There's
a big house. There's a hugelike mansion on the water. The security
guard for the house. It wasan Indian guy, a local, like
an indigenous guy, and he justsaw another gringo and the gain and they

(42:19):
guy said, oh, I'm Bill'sbrother, and so he just let him
in. You know, he wouldn'tI don't know, to him, it
seemed like the right thing to do. So Lissa guy and the guy puts
all of the stuff on the kitchentable of my house and and then the
cops come and do a search becausehe called and asked him to, and
they find the stuff and then he'she's clear. The family's not breathing down
his neck anymore, and I'm screwed. Yeah, that's pretty much what happened.
Um, what were your terms forturning down certain jobs and then taking

(42:43):
other ones? What did you havelike certain requirements or thing? You know?
How did that all work? Ididn't killed kids. They got me
for killing a kid, but Ididn't know for the kid and I killed
him. I didn't know it wasunder age, he's seventeen. I didn't.
I didn't know that he was achild, seventeen year old boy involved
in the criminal enterprise. I didn't. And like I get a lot,

(43:04):
I get a lot of people aregetting flack for that, exce online to
how you're a child killer. Ididn't know who was a kid. I
didn't know how old he wasn't andI didn't ask him his first driver's license.
I mean, the order came downto kill them. That's why I
did. And so I mean thatdidn't make it good or bet or anything,
but it wasn't something I was likethinking about. So I didn't kill
kids, and I didn't. Ididn't kill civilians, meaning people who weren't
involved in the criminal enterprise, whoweren't involved in the mafia or in some

(43:29):
way. And that's why I turned. I tried very hard to turn the
last job that actually put me inprison down because not because she was a
woman, just because she's like awife of a drugg order. The mean,
she's not like really not really reallyin the game. She's just like
from the Good Lord's Hoe, youknow what I mean, like the killer.
And then the reason they wanted tokill her was because he had a

(43:49):
new girl and he put a wholebunch of his stuff in her name,
and so he wanted to get divorced. But he got a divorce, and
he's gonna lose his empire because everythinghe put in his wife's name. So
anyway, yeah, older, howwhen we weave a wicked web, and
I'm talking about myself, I'm notnecessarily him him too, But when I
was but you know, the smallestthing makes us fall when we're so full

(44:12):
of shit. So my life wasa house of cards, and you know,
I couldn't stand up any investigation oranything like that. Was already a
fugitive in the United States, soI ran and it was pretty successful at
running for a little while, andthen they picked me up. And now
I'm here Andrew in one of theworst damn prisons in the world, probably
certainly the worst prison. I don'tI saw a video of Haiti's prisons.

(44:36):
This is so much worse than Haiti, which is the poorest nation in the
Western Hemisphere. What makes this prisonso bad? Is you know, there's
no health care at all. Youget a heart attack, you have a
stroke, you have an append appendence. First year dead, and that's just
it. Um. I almost outin June this year. Actually, I

(44:58):
had a blood pressure issue. Ididn't know what was wrong with me.
And what it turned out to bethat they were poisoning the food. If
they were not just my food,everybody's food, but they were poisoning the
food that they sent because they here'show your food situation works here. They
send a ration of food twice aday, lunchtime and supper time. But
it's like what was today's ration waslike one cup, like a coffee cup

(45:22):
of white rice and a hot dog, one uncooked hot dog. And that's
a portion of food from for anadult meal for lunch. So I don't
know. Somebody was trying to killsome of these boys in here, and
I drank it and I think,I don't know anyway. I ate the
food. I ate the food becauseI was in a bad situation. I
didn't have any money. I couldn'tbring it inside to eat. That cramp

(45:44):
for like a month, and duringthat time period they paused in the food
and a whole bunch of people atseveral died actually, but I had a
blood pressure issue that my blood pressurewould up like two hundred and ten or
one hundred and twenty, you know. And I'm in shape, man.
I mean I was a fat whenI was a killer, inything, but
I'm in shaving. I bought andkeep myself in order, you know.
And that's I'm forty three years old. So anyway, so I finally got

(46:07):
on take me to the doctor,and the doctor said, oh, it's
stress. Stress. You imbecile.I am stress, that's not That's not
what's wrong with me. Honestly,your book past doesn't got two hundred and
ten because you're stressed. It getstwo hundred and forty. I mean,
he's just a little bit high.So like you are, you are your
mind. So what I ended updoing was just checking it online and it
looked like those are symptoms of poisoning, several different kinds of poisoning. So

(46:27):
what I did ended up having todo in order to live. I didn't
eat for eight days. I didn'tneed nothing, I mean, like not
one grain of rice, not anything. For eight days. I fastt and
I drank sixty gallons of water.Maybe in that time period, and so
my system recovered. But that's justan example the healthcare system that they have

(46:49):
earth that they don't have. Soso there's no healthcare, there's no security.
You gotta be your own security.Anybody can kill anybody here just because
you're a big tough about a man. I mean, like you're actually a
bigger target. Like you want tokill somebody in prison, here's how you
do it, right. You findsome bat likes to use a lot of
cocaine and say hey, come here. He's like, how many how many
years have you just serving fifty years? That's some aximum tense. I'm already
serving fifty years. Okay, I'mgonna give you a gun. I want

(47:12):
you to go kill Bill. Butwhen you kill him, I want you
to take the gun and turn itinto the cups and tell the cups that
you kill him. And what I'mgonna do for you is I'm gonna send
your family five thousand dars and I'mgonna give you a lifetimes to flock cocaine.
This guy's happy, man. It'sa great deal for him. He
knows he's never getting out of jail. He's gonna get to be high all
the time and his family in thestreets, gonna get five grands. But
I mean, like you can pokea hole in anybody that way here,

(47:34):
So like you gotta be really carefuland not in like Pantomas a weird place
too, because like you're an Americanprison. I don't know, I've never
been in prison in America, butlike the things that I read about and
stuff, there's a lot of violence, like they still and stuff and they
fight fist fight and stuff. Ain'tnone of that shit here. They just
kill you because they're like chicken shits, like they smile, I okay,
everything's okay, and then when youwalk away, they ship you in the
back of the head, you knowwhat I mean. So there's no I'm

(47:55):
gonna be really careful here. Youdon't want to piss anybody off. You
don't want to keep your head down, keep your mouth sh um. Yeah,
that makes a lot of sense.You know, it's probably what we'd
all be doing. I'm sure,what's your daily life before? I know,
you're on a time limit here,And just for the listeners before we
recorded, Bill has agreed to comeon again for a for a second part

(48:16):
to the interview. You know,We're gonna have more questions and stuff like
that. I'm sure, But what'syour daily life like in there? Right
now? Let's I'll give you myToday, more day, Saturday, Saturday,
normal day. Man. I'm asierro means literally means man in the
hall. But what that is.It's like babysitter. I'm in the Supermax

(48:36):
facility. All the biggest gangsters andcriminals, you know, the big gang
heads, the international drug traffickers,the drug lords, the cicadios keep the
murder of the hitman are all herewhere. I am one hundred and fifty
seven of us, but I'm incharged with twenty two of them. Twenty
two of those guys are my guys. So what do I do. I

(48:58):
get up in a month, fiveo'clock normal and I do a pray a
little bit, meditate, check mymy Instagram and stuff like that. They
come and pop my hatch at seveno'clock. Seven o'clock in the morning,
they open my door. I'm out, I go out. I clean everything
up. I got, you know, like a like a maid first time
the maid and I clean everything up. Now everybody here is locked in,
so it's not like the only personthat's lose is me and everybody else gets

(49:22):
an hour out in groups of threemen. So like seven to eight,
three men are let out, andthey're loose in the patio and the patios
it's like the part the inside farwe never get outside. I've not seen
the sun in three years. I'venot seen one ray of sunlight in three
years. Three years and two months. It took me a year to get
on top of the situation here.I okay, so suddenly like to be

(49:45):
in charge of the thing here.It took me a year. I start
cleaning everything and then I get readyfor breakfast. The breakfast night, I
distribute to breakfast the food to everybody. Those twenty two men, they are
here. If there's a conflict duringthe day, it's me who has to
resolve it. Um. I runthe church. Like today there was no
church, but yesterday there was yesterday. At ten o'clock in the morning.
On Mondays, Wednesday, Fridays atten o'clock and Sundays at ten o'clock in

(50:07):
the morning, we have a Wehave a church service. It's a unity
church service. It's non denominational.Everybody's welcome, and the guys really,
they really come and when I saidthey come to church meeting, then they're
all standing on a bus inside theresell looking out the door. And that's
how they come to church. Andme and Senator and like and like people
really put but they really participation.I mean there's a high participation rate.

(50:29):
Then lunch comes the same the samestory, and give it well, give
away all the food. When thefood, and then I gotta go back,
like an hour later and pick upall the trays and send them back
to bring more food. And thenagain I do that at four poor clotting,
and I keep the place clean,that place clean. And when there's
a conflict anywhere in sector, seeout of the one hundred and fifty seven
men, they come and they say, hey, well let's go. We

(50:50):
gotta thank you. And so thenI gotta go and sit down at the
desk and they bring me the guysand we know what's the problem, you
know, we gotta we gotta,we gotta talk about it. We gotta
don't kill each other's see if wecan figure it out, you know.
So that's how that's my that's mylife. It's not bad. It's not
a bad life. I'll do thetruth and the other prison, it was
much better. I got laid allthe time and the other prison but women,

(51:12):
so that, you know, thatwas cool, And that's another thing.
We'll talk about that on the nextshow. Let's talk about that on
the next show. That would bea good thing to tease everyone with.
I had from two I got divorced, or I didn't get divorced because I
wasn't married, but we I brokeup with the girl that I got arrested
with in twenty thirteen. Um,she starts seeing somebody else and so we
broke up. And and then Iwent through a period of being like a

(51:35):
real whorror and I was famous,you know, and like all the chicks
and Panama, I wanted to pookme and so so I did that for
a while. So that was reallycool. I got to do that.
I didn't never get to do that. Was like really nervous around women my
whole life. And I got overthat pretty quick and between these years nto,
you know, I was like reallyneo, Like girls are like I'm
gonna come and visit you and bringyou food and fuck you. Okay,

(51:58):
that sounds great. So like Ihad like my sexual I had a better
sex life and almost any you knowI had between those years, I had
like every man's fantasy with every man'sfantasy beautiful women. I mean, like
just because I was famous, youknow, and so so it was pretty
neat. Yeah, we'll definitely getit. We'll talk about that next on

(52:19):
the next groundfinitely. Yeah. Ireally appreciate you, looking forward to coming
back on you guys, come andvisit me at Holding the Spell on Instagram.
Friends of brother Bill on Facebook,go by Belong with the King while
Bill, drag your buns over thereand get that book. You'll like it.
It's really enlightening about what loss likeour third world prison. Yeah.
Absolutely, And for the listeners,I will put links to those in the

(52:40):
episode description when I posted on socialmedia and everything like that. So yeah,
Bill, I suppose man, hthank you again for coming on.
I suppose we uh, if youwant to, we can do the same
time, same day next week.Man, do it, all right,
let's do it. Let's do itSunday, sund me thick with me,
We'll do it. Broth sounds good. Man. I will talk to you

(53:02):
then. I really appreciate you comingon. Thank you so much. Cover
all right, I'll talk to youlater, h