Las rebeldes (T4 E41)

Las rebeldes
Temporada 4 | Episodio 41

https://nadacomounlibro.com/

La rebeldía es una pulsión para el cambio y la transformación social. Sirve para cuestionar y desafiar las normas establecidas, impulsar el progreso y la innovación. La rebeldía promueve la justicia, la igualdad y los derechos humanos. Permite que se escuchen voces marginadas. Es un medio para enfrentar el conformismo, despertar conciencias y movilizar a las personas hacia acciones constructivas.A lo largo de la historia, las mujeres rebeldes han sido figuras cruciales en la lucha por la igualdad y la justicia.

Estas escritoras no solo han creado obras literarias excepcionales, sino que también han desafiado y transformado las normas sociales y culturales de sus épocas, convirtiéndose en figuras rebeldes y revolucionarias en la literatura. Alice Walker, Isabel Allende, Chimamanda Ngozi, Sylvia Plath, Virginia Woolf, Emilia Pardo Bazán, Josefina de la Torre, Gloria Fuertes, Mercedes Pinto, Elvira Sastre, Eugenia Tenenbaum, Nuria Varela, Victoria Kent, María Teresa León, María Josefa Canellada, Silvia Mistral...

Todo el sumario en: https://nadacomounlibro.com/

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Nothing like a book. It isa podcas led by Juan Carlos Avedra by
Daniel Martín, sponsored by the Ministryof Culture and financed by the European Nión
with the Nexcineration funds. Rebellion isa drive for change and social transformation.
It serves to challenge and challenge establishedstandards, boost the progress of innovation,
promote justice, equality and human rights. Allows marginalized voices to be heard.

(00:28):
It is a means to confront conformism, confront and awaken awareness and mobilize people
towards constructive actions. Throughout history,writers considered or marked as rebels have been
crucial figures in the struggle for equalityand justice. These women have not only

(00:51):
created exceptional literary works but have alsochallenged and transformed the social and cultural norms
of their times, becoming revolutionary figuresin literature. Alice Walker, Isabel Allende,
s Mamandanoxi, Silvia Plath, VirginiaWolf, Emilia Pardo Bazán, Josefina

(01:12):
de la Torre, Gloria Fuerte,Mercedes Pinto, elvira blood. Well,
Dani Te, I have to saythat the subject of today' s podcast
makes me very excited. That isto dedicate a podcast to the rebels and,

(01:34):
besides, notice Juan Carlos. Ihave been thinking about how the meaning
of the word rebellion has changed beforea rebel mount a revolution, and today
it seems that if you laugh youare almost a rebel, that is,
you also have to analyze a littlehow literature is has integrated this new concept
of rebellion. And it is curiouswhen we talk about rebellious women in the

(01:55):
Canary Islands literature, because we willalways appear Mararía a work by rafael A
Rosa Arena, which is very interestingfor everything that female figure supposes and we
will know the most in depth talkingwith the philologist sevensui Rodríguez. Another rebel
was Virginia Wolf and Virginia Wollt hada book called Mrs Dallowie. Based on

(02:17):
this book, Michael Cunigan wrote anothernovel, a novel entitled La Sora,
and from that novel a film wasmade. They are three women protagonists who
tell the story of a day ofthese women in three different times. A
very interesting book and a very curiousfilm, as when you talk about rebellious

(02:38):
women in the Middle Ages, youused to associate them with witchcraft to discredit
it. Therefore, in the cursedbooks we are going to talk about Malleus
Molificaron, a book that was intendedto punish these women who were trying to
get out of what would be theorder of the moment, accusing them,
accusing them, as I said,of witchcraft. In our psychopedagogy space,

(03:02):
two zeros with Elisabel López, whowe talk about education and psychology, children
' s literature, we will commenton several books, but between them two
that are really two books of rebels, of rebellious authors. I am and
recipes of rain and sugar, becauselook inside the infermericas of the month Let
' s highlight the birth. OnJuly 1, one thousand eight hundred and

(03:23):
four of writer George Sam who passedthe story as the rebel of romanticism.
Seeing those old pictures of her dressed, dressed in pants and smoking is truly
impressive. On our island of SanBorondón Imaginaria we have had a very special
encounter with psychologist, writer and narratorAlicia Costa more than twenty books published translated

(03:46):
into more than sixteen languages, arebellious writer with a very rebellious literature for
children and adults who want to havefun, laugh and also think, because
within our trunk we have found inthe first literary magazine whose editorial board was
made up only of women. Itwas published in the Canary Islands and the

(04:08):
title was women on the island whenit came to recognizing women' s contribution
to universal literature, as we willalso pay tribute to writer Charlotte Bronte and
her novel jen Ir. And toconclude, as always our episode, we
have selected a poem by Mesedes Pintorebellion from the book Canto de Many Ports,

(04:28):
published in the thirty- one inone thousand nine hundred and thirty-
one, which Lee interprets for allof us illuminated Romero. Well, nothing,
if that' s all right withyou, we start with today'
s podcast. We start with ourdeposit at nothing. Like a book we
don' t like to travel alone. For this reason, on today'

(04:50):
s journey Rafael la Rosamena accompanied us, he created one of the most striking
female characters in Canarian Marian literature.To know a little more this woman from
Lanzarote we count on nothing like abook with the philologist Zuis Rodriguez are seen
Sui welcome back to our literary podcast. Thank you so much for the invitation.

(05:12):
Before we go in to talk abouther about Mararia, we would like
her to introduce us a little bitto the figure of her author, Rafael
Rosamena. Well, the truth isthat rafaer Rosa Arena is one of the
authors that I think less presentation shouldneed, because we could start by saying
that he' s a classic actor. I dare say canonical of what 20th
century literature is. It is usuallyclassified within this group of authors of the

(05:39):
generation of the pothole, as oneof its members called it, which was
Enrique Lite, Because well, then, we came from a time when we
had had great figures and great literaryworks like that of Lancelo de Agustín Espinosa
and suddenly the civil war and boomThere is like a stop a return to
a literature, because almost so areturn to the literature of the campamor and

(06:01):
others. But within that generation ofthe pothole Rosarena would also belong, more
specifically, to a group perhaps Vegawho is also a component of this group
called fetasta, which was, therefore, a series of writers who wanted to
try to simplify things a little bit, so, to create a God above

(06:25):
God, a beauty above beauty.And they were looking for a pure,
virginal, authentic beauty, a superiorbeauty. And that' s exactly what
comes to get Rosa Arena with Mararia. Whoever has known the novel that he
has read and who doesn' tknow more or less what it' s

(06:46):
about knows that in the end,Mararilla burns and this is a fetaceous act,
it' s burning to get ridof that beauty with which he was
born. It is a way tocreate a superior beauty, a beauty above
curious beauty. Parallelism. Then,as you said, there comes one in
general, a bad time and shealso in general also does an act to

(07:11):
enter into another time for her life. How you would describe that Wonder character
in particular, although he has alreadyadvanced something to us, you have advanced
us something of what his end is. Well, Madarias, evidently, is
a woman who suffers, because ofthat great beauty she has, because she
is continually harassed by all those,by all the men of the village and

(07:35):
by those who came visiting the foreignpeople. The Arab who is not a
German, as it later appears inthe film, who perverts the argument a
little bit and, obviously, ashe tried to explain before and we realize
when she burns, who does ittoo much in front of the door of
a church, is an act ofrebellion, but also of liberation, because

(08:00):
she feels that when she is burned, because the one who would want it
later is because she would be ableto see the beauty after that burned face.
Not that is the fetasian act,in this case of this novel,
of wanting to have a superior beauty. In any case, wonder in the
novel is a proscribed woman, she' s a witch. In fact,

(08:24):
from the beginning of the novel,the narrator with what he encounters with an
old woman in mourning ambush to whicheveryone yells practically, because they reject her,
because they see that she is awitch. And from there the narrator
is starting an investigation. Let's not forget Carosarena. He was a

(08:48):
lover of the police novel and certainstop the police novel, detective novel.
It is also wonderful, because heis asking all the men of the people
who this woman is and with thetestimony of all of them is how we
are rebuilding this image, because itis proscribed, because she is a witch.

(09:09):
Well, she' s a singlemother, right. In addition,
she is a woman who has sexualrelations before marriage or outside marriage, with
several men, not only with whomshe is pregnant. Then, moreover,
a series of misfortunes happen to her, such as, for example, her
son' s death And after thedeath of her son, for she suffers
him and the men of the people, who are the ones who tell the

(09:33):
story, see her practically as amadwoman. And then, then, this
last fetasian act of wanting to burnalive. Let us not forget to be
able to save ourselves, for thesexual harassment that I was living and the
moment it is burned, it alsoaborts, that is, that it has
everything now that from the point ofview, since with this somewhat Christian worldview

(09:56):
in the background, because to loveit is considered a witch and also,
a witch where, if I may, because the witches that were made with
them throughout history, burn it,but burn it would do over it is
tried to burn it and not withthose women, with which that legendary character
of Witch still as it is growing. Not that is wonder, a witch
woman in terms of the men whonarrate the novel, a woman banned for

(10:22):
going against social conventions. We canthen say that she may be a daughter
of her time, because she issupposed to have changed that picture by now.
But in Lanzarote, which places Rafael, it was possible that this case
could be seen. Well, Ithink there are many wonders in the Canary

(10:43):
Islands, in Spain and in theworld. In fact, note that one
of the island' s main women' s associations on the island of Lanzarote
is called Mararilla. Much has beenspeculated, even about the real identity of
that very woman beyond the literary thatcould have inspired ros Arenas. It has

(11:03):
even been said at some point.I think it' s a little right
that if she was a woman fromAtacoronte, then someone else would say she
' s a woman from I don' t know where. Evidently, regardless
of all this, what we areseeing is that, at different points in
our geography, we find many womenwhose biography fits to a certain extent with

(11:26):
that of the wonderful literary character,with which I believe that, indeed,
there were too many wonders in theCanary Islands. There may be some,
specifically outside of which you are notcommenting on rumors that may obey the creation
of this character. In launching youLook at Rosa Arena was always asked about

(11:46):
that detail in all the interviews andreviewing some notes the other day. I
found one in particular from ninety-six years, in which the journalist told
him you met with mararia and heresponded. I met Mararía and all those
who are in the novel, includingRipoll, the mayor' s dog,

(12:07):
that is, that he obviously saysthat all the characters that are, regardless
of the name he has given themand as he has baptized them in the
novel, are evidently based on realcharacters. And he says that when he
gets to femes, he actually knowsthis woman. I had the boldness because

(12:28):
that is the word to go tofems taking advantage a few years ago that
I would start an exhibition, togetherwith my partner Pepe Betancoro, about Mararilla
and we had in those positions,in this positive project to an artist who
was precisely from the village of femes, with which I served a little as

(12:50):
a hook to introduce myself to certaincircles, usually since a little more discreet,
and several women of the village endedup telling me that they were convinced
that the mararía, the Maria Mararillaof Arosarena, was a lady of ceness
called María Magdalena. When they toldme the name, I could not help

(13:13):
but think, because the biblical Christianreminiscences that this name has Mary Magdalene,
that we also know what character itis and how it has been qualified in
some moments and I thought that,perhaps it had a point of legend,
but they finished convincing me a littlemore when one of the ladies says wait
here to look for the key tothe old cemetery of Temes. She took

(13:35):
me and showed me the tombstone ofMary Magdalene and also began to tell me,
because she told me several stories relatedto the woman, because her great
beauty, how persecuted she was bymen, the lover who had had Jarandino
the Arab and how, evidently,well, she was also considered in the

(13:56):
village, because as a sort ofoutsider, a kind of witch, because
of her extramarital relations, because shebecame pregnant outside of marriage, etc.
Why do you think that the successof this novel by Maravilla that, when
we try to look for references classicbooks in Canary classic novels in Canaria,
one of the first that always appearsmararia. Why the success of this literary

(14:18):
work. It' s a wonderfulnovel. Let' s see from a
stylistic point of view, to startsomewhere to find reasons. It' s
a tremendously well- written novel.It is a novel, as he himself
came to say it is not writtenby a narrator, it is written by
a poet. Actually, Mararia.It is a novel that is greatly enjoyed

(14:39):
if, instead of reading it quietly, we read it aloud at some point,
because it is absolutely melodious one ofits paragraphs it tremendously cared for.
And when art is present, socarefully, for that is obviously the reader.
The reader then notes it by anovel that incorporates real elements. Right.

(15:07):
It is true that it sits inthe landscape and that sixty in the
reality of Lanzadote, but that itdoes not have to be very different in
many respects from the reality of anyother island, whether capital or not,
and because it has, at thesame time, a magical point in which
the real is confused with the fictitiouswith the magical. In fact, when

(15:28):
we talk about the writing process ofthe novel, he always tells us that
he wrote it in the 1940s andpublished it in the seventy- three.
If he had published it before andit was true what he says, he
had written it practically in the 1940s. Well, maybe the concept of magical
realism that we associate with Latin America. It is true, then, that

(15:50):
we should not have to associate theCanary Islands with each other well in advance.
I think those are some of theingredients that this novel has, which
makes it truly special. And thenthat detective element, because deep down,
we all like this point of intrigue. We meet at first a mysterious woman

(16:11):
dressed in black, they call herWitch, because then we begin to know
her whole history and intrahistory, andwe do it through the story of several
men, always men who tell itto us and sometimes clear. First,
I interview one, I tell myselfone thing. Tomorrow I interview someone else,

(16:33):
I find someone else. One alwaysmakes you an anticipation of something that
' s going to happen next,or just leaves you in doubt with something
else you' ll have to know. Then and that point of intrigue is
also present in the novel and makesit quite attractive. I believe that everyone
who has listened to you, whohas not read Maravilla, is going to
run and look for his copy andread it, because you are clarifying him

(17:00):
enough, because he is a classicand of our literature, because Servenzuio Rodríguez.
Thank you so much for having beenback with us in nothing like a
book and helping us to know thefag profile and its author. You know
it' s a pleasure and wheneveryou want us to be a hug.

(17:22):
Nothing like a book, we followthe footsteps of women in literature. Literature
has been an essential weapon in thestruggle for women' s rights. The

(17:44):
protagonists of the novels that opposed therole that the predominantly male society had reserved
for them were labeled rebellious girls.One of those first rebellious girls was Jane
Er, the protagonist of the novelof the same title, written by Charlotte
bront Y, published in the year1 847. Like many other authors,

(18:07):
Charlotte Bronty was forced to sign thenovel under the male pseudonym Correr bell,
not until a few years later,when her authorship framed within the romantic novel
Jane Ear breaks Moldes was recognized,when the protagonist posed different issues, such
as the social roles or the scantrole reserved for women of her time,

(18:29):
considered by many as one of thefirst feminist novels in history Jane Eaer shows
us the look that Sharlotte Bronty hadabout the world, where she describes the
differences of social classes as arbitrary andis critical with the brief role of women
in society. From then on,she sought to be treated with the same

(18:52):
rights as men and even thinks abouthow women should act. An example of
this is found in Jane' snext thought. Women feel, like men,
the need to exercise their faculties andfind ground for their work, as
do their brothers. When they arerepressed with too much rigidity, when they

(19:15):
are absolutely stagnant, they suffer asmuch as men and their fellows who enjoy
more privileges would suffer, they shownarrow- mindedness when they say they should
just make cakes and socks, playthe piano and embroider bags. Despite her
death being only thirty- nine yearsold, Charlotte Pronti left an indelible mark

(19:37):
on universal literature, as did hersister Emily, author of drunken peaks,
who curiously also had to publish itwith male pseudonym. Nothing like a book,
it is a podcast sponsored by theCanary Islands Library geo Government of the

(20:00):
Canary Islands, led by Juan CarlosSaavedra and Daniel Martín. In Nothing like
a book, books cursed, forbidden, full of legends and mysteries. In

(20:29):
the Middle Ages, every woman whotried to live in freedom was branded a
witch. Under this consideration, theaim was to eliminate the rebel girls who
intended to follow a different way oflife than the church marked them with the
aim of ending those women. TwoDominican monks, Henry Crammer and Jacoque Springer,
wrote one of the cursed books thatmore suffering and lives to the side.

(20:52):
The Malus malified, published in onethousand four hundred and eighty- seven,
offered his readers the possibility of knowinghow to identify the witches, trap
them and judge them with such content. It soon became the headline book of
all the members of the Inquisition.To be accepted in a majority way,

(21:14):
its authors included in its publication atrue papal bull that conferred on the two
Dominican monks, special powers to pursuewitchcraft and write the maleus malify, a
title that can be translated as thehammer to beat the witches and their heresies
with powerful mass. This introduction magnifiedbefore all Europe the influence of witchcraft on

(21:37):
its territory and, above all,the recognition that the authors had on the
part of the high Vatican ecclesiastical spheres. The work is full of misogenous manifestations,
coming to classify women as unattainable,but when it is possible to establish
a relationship with them, they becomemalicious. They were classified as the necessary

(21:59):
evil, the unavoidable penalty, thedomestic danger, the evil of nature painted
in good color. Also, definethe fine woman, the one who is
married and forgives her husband’ sinfidelity, as opposed to the bad woman,
who cannot contain her desire and thereforefalls easily into witchcraft. There is

(22:21):
no unanimity as to the number ofinnocent women who suffered torture by applying the
precepts contained in this cursed book.Fortunately, in the year one thousand six
hundred and fifty- seven, theVatican ended the hunt for Bruges. Although
territories not subject to its jurisdiction,it continued its persecution until at least the

(22:41):
year one thousand seven hundred and eighty- two. The Hours is a curious

(23:04):
American film directed by Stephen Dardry.She starred in Merly Street, Julian Moure
and Nichole Kingman. You have goneout, yes lie, then you will
eat as God commands, husband andwife sitting at table, soup and dessert

(23:29):
by force if necessary. The scriptwritten by David Hare is an adaptation of
Michael Cunnigan' s homonymous novel,winner of the Pullizer Prize in nineteen hundred
and ninety- nine. Mr Word, what a pleasant surprise you have an

(23:52):
obligation to your sanity. I canunderstand that it is difficult for a woman
in your honey clan to take outmy talent to accept that she is not
the prettiest to judge her own state. We brought you here to save you
Hence irrevocable damage that you intended tomake you alive in a village in which
I do not want to live andcarry that I do not wish to carry.

(24:15):
The whole story takes place in thecourse of the same day. It
deals with three women in different agesand generations, whose lives are connected through
Virginia' s novel Wolf Mris Dalloway. Thanks for you reading about being happy

(24:36):
in this tranquility. Mrs Dallowey isVirginia Wolf' s fourth novel. Detailed
one day in the life of thiswoman in England, after the First World
War. My love, I amcertain that we will be going crazy again

(24:59):
and will be able to endure theseterrible crises again. Yes, I won
' t recover this time. I' m starting to hear voices and I
can' t concentrate. So,I' m gonna do the best I
can. It is the story ofthree women in different times who try to

(25:27):
find meaning in their lives. Thefeature film premiered in Los Angeles and New
York City, on December 25,two thousand and two international awards were awarded.
The film and the novel adapted toan opera with the same name that
premiered in the two thousand twenty-two. What you' re hearing now

(25:49):
is the final threesome of that opera. Nothing like a book. We opened

(26:32):
our trunk of memories, curiosities andliterary novelties, seeking in our particular goal
women who have revealed themselves before themoment they had to live. We have

(26:55):
found a magazine published between the yearsone thousand nine hundred and fifty- three
and one thousand nine hundred and sixty- four by a group of rebellious girls,
entitled Women on the Island. Womenon the Island was born as a
female supplement of the Diario de LasPalmas, which was published between the year
one thousand nine hundred and fifty-three and the year one thousand nine hundred
and fifty- five. That year, with a completely female editorial board,

(27:18):
it began to be published monthly asa female literary magazine. This feature made
it the first published magazine in theSpanish State, whose staff was entirely made
up of women. Over the years, a hundred and seventy- four authors
participated in women on the island,including names of such renowned literary prestige as

(27:40):
Josefina de la Torre, Natalia Sosayala, Johna Madera Opinojeda. The publishers took
great care of their aesthetics and orderedtheir covers to great artists, both female
and male. The only male contributionwas focused on the design of the SNS.
Cover page of the magazine, workthat was in charge of renowned artists

(28:03):
such as Jane Millares, Felo Monzón, Juan Ismael Antonio Padrón, Jesús Arencibia,
Santiago Santana, Pepe Damaso or FranciscoLescano Lescano women on the island made
it possible for many women writers tosee their works published in an editorial world
dominated by men. With his rebelliousness. The women who created it gave the

(28:25):
literature an unthinkable female vision during theFranco period in the Spanish state. Cycloeducation,

(28:47):
two zero Bibliotherapy, psychology, educationand books. With Elisabeth Lopez Rodriguez,
you world, I bought books ofSana hea dani you like to cook

(29:07):
there also yes, there made mean tortilla. They make you a cream
there, but it doesn' tgive you a normal omelet. If you
don' t look, I puta little bit of cheese on the eggs
and put spinach on it, puta little broth of the onions on it.
If the spinach doesn' t,no, no, I put the
spinach on it, I scratched cheeseon it, I put a little bit
of fish, a little bit ofsalt and a little bit of pepper.
And then to the pan. Well, I was gonna tell you if you

(29:29):
dared with more elaborate recipes, butyou just blew my question. Yeah,
come on, I' m gonnamake it hard for you. If you
had to make a recipe for anemotion, what emotion would you leave them,
for fear, perhaps the fear ofspinach was a complex ingredient. But
for fear, to make a recipe, you' d need three lion roars.

(29:52):
You have to piss the lion offso that you function half a kilo
of ghost tears. Ask your grandmotherif you know a pinch of ogre melancholy
and sing aloud, because I bringyou a wonderful album called rain and sugar
recipes. What does he talk aboutemotions. For every emotion you have a
recipe. It can be fear,as we have spoken, trust, empathy,

(30:18):
gratitude, for example. For gratitudeyou need to use neighborly flour.
It' s worth the first oneto pass two glasses of water mix with
your hands. I think it's a great book to work both in
the classroom and at home. Andwhen we have those emotions that overflow us,
that we don' t know whatto do with them, because we
cook them, we cook them,and it' s a way to reconcile

(30:41):
with that emotion, to do somethingwith it and to integrate it, internalize
it and accept that there are emotionsthat make us feel better and there are
emotions that make us feel worse,just like there are dishes that are richer
and other dishes that are less rich. And I can ask you a question
you feel when you caught the touch. I mean the tact, because that
book is different. Right, yeah, it' s like it' s

(31:02):
recycled. It' s rough,it' s a pretty big size,
it' s got some beautiful illustrations, but the reality is, when I
touched it it was like it's a book that' s not a
book, it was a strange feeling, but it' s like a book
that' s not perfect for theintersection we recorded before. I think it
is, because it' s fullof emotions. Well, I was asking

(31:23):
you about that, because look atthis one' s got that one as
a cardboard one, too. Yeah, it doesn' t hide. Right.
It is not important also when wetake a book, when we go
to what book, to give awaythe sensations that we have when we take
it, because there are things likevery interesting, as they can truth.
Well, I' ll make youthat cardboard, which that recigio looks around
here I brought you another one thatI' d like to recommend, because

(31:51):
it' s a book that tellsa story, but it' s written
in Well, I' ll readit to you. I' ll read
it to you because you' llnotice. So I' m just going
to read you a kiss, becauseit' s a story. But one
says and I see the light ofthe spotlight that calling it ugly is little.
He has crooked teeth bulging and baldthe big coconut nose mad eyes,
scar and huge lenses. It's a story in verse. Something happens

(32:16):
at the lighthouse and tells the storyof a boatman everyone saw, who was
very rare, very rare, veryrare, very rare. But of course,
the mysterious boatman who always received apackage and who everyone saw as something
strange, had something that he read, collected books and in his lighthouse,

(32:36):
because he had a large library andwhat happened when the inhabitants of the village
discovered the rarity of the boatman.Well, that' s what you have
to read to find out, butit has several things. It' s
written in verse. It' sfun. He tells us about emotion,
what it' s like to havethe book and the reading, and he

(33:00):
doesn' t also tell us aboutwhen we consider someone weird and what happens
when we discover that their weirdness,because maybe it' s not so much.
Besides, I love books that talkabout books. Yes, it'
s very nice and it' sin verse, it' s very curious.
Yeah, because it' s alsoa way of bringing the little ones
closer to poetry, that they alwaysstart out as that poetry is very tedious

(33:22):
and in the end they can discoverthat it' s super funny, of
course, because there aren' tas many metaphors as it can be in
a poem, because it' stalking about a man who can be ugly
to look, not ugly, whohas a gaff, who works, and
that' s very real, butthey' re verse, it' s
very funny. A musicality that leadsus to illustration, leads us to musicality

(33:45):
and rhythm and leads us to history. It' s got all that,
so I' ll let you turnthe reverse page. Yeah, yeah,
and you don' t have anotherbook. Of course I brought you another
book, Dani, and you thoughtwe were going to stay on the page
with so few. I' llget you. I' m, I
' m, I' m tellingMartin' s story. Martin likes a
girl, but all his friends considerthe girl to be weird, because she

(34:07):
' s weird to the girl becauseyou realize how many things, how we
use or how many times we usethe word. Strange, then, in
Fabrero it was also rare. Yeah, what a pity truth, well,
I read, when it' snot like in our resquema, yeah right
away, we try, we needlike a box and when we don'

(34:27):
t have squares, it' sweird. Yeah. I just realized because
of course the potter that in theend I' m weird was just that
she loved to read and the girlthat Martín likes It' s a girl
with birds in her head, it' s a girl who loves to dream
that she has wings that sings allthe clear time it' s weird.
So, Martin' s friends allthe time tell him that he can'
t like that girl because she's weird and Martin believes it. So

(34:52):
Martin is fulfilling all the stereotypes thatare expected of a child like him,
for example, he looks and goesputting labels, not making ridiculous, songs
top ten, not to think differentbrands of cool football star hairstyle look bigger.
But Martin always feels that his feetare tied to the ground, he

(35:13):
has no birds on his head,he can' t fly. In the
end he realizes that he likes thegirl as she is and he also decides
to get rid of all those labelsand be himself and be free and that
his feet are no longer tied tothe ground. Then I think they are
books at the end without having spokenit, because we always come to be
surprised with the stories, we haveaccompanied ourselves in the oddness if look struvoy

(35:38):
is gift, because it was givena teacher who works, the other book
that when working, that uses,that always puts in his library of the
classroom, the other book that youare commenting on and has tremendous connections.
The two books and like these booksthat we can sometimes think about, they
are not too much for the boyor for the girl because of the age

(35:59):
she is and and what the kidsmake tremendous connections, they are also written
that right away, they connect realitywith literature and that' s what it
' s all about to read plus, dani and we underestimate the kids,
who hasn' t felt weird.It' s me who' s grown
up and sometimes I feel super weird. So I have to resort to children
' s literature to reconnect with mytrue santa and say I am are my

(36:22):
returns and this to remember that booksare not only for children, not only
to give children, and that thisis literature, not only children' s
literature to be read by children ofa given one, but it is a
literature for anyone. The sleeping booksand the books don' t sleep the
books of these awake. Well thisin this space I don' t know

(36:49):
look, even if this looks likesomething abstract, which is what can happen
with literature there is always say.I would like to be in that moment
with any of these books reading yes, I don' t decide to you
happens if we invite everyone to lookfor a place to read Fessi Dani I
' m going to turn page nextto the sea you, we have close,

(37:21):
we will do it in nothing likea book femerides literary moments for history
and literature. On July 1,the year eight hundred and four was born
to Mantin Lucille Aurot Duping, awriter who would pass the story as George
sand and the nickname of the rebelof romanticism. Her literary nimo was chosen

(37:45):
by herself and used it throughout herlife. Jorro San not only stood out
for his literary works, but alsomarked a milestone in his time for his
way of dressing and living. Fromhis literary legacy. It stands out Consuelo
written in the year one thousand eighthundred forty- two and consecrated it as
one of the most important writers ofromanticism. At a time when monogamy predominated

(38:07):
and women had to bear with resignationthe infidelities of their husbands, she lived
numerous adventures with men without hiding outthe relationships she had with Alfred de Mussette
and Frederic Chopin. That sentimental lifehad to be added to his taste for
wearing male clothes, which at thetime needed police permission. Georsan never asked

(38:30):
for his authorization and took advantage ofthe comfort he gave him. The use
of male clothing to move freely aroundParis. By the way, it was
hardly enough to shock 19th- centuryFrance. In addition, he smoked in
public that way of life did notmatter to Victor Hugo, whom he joined
with a great friendship. Such wasthe case that the author of the Miserables

(38:52):
commented on her, George sand cannotdetermine whether she is a man or a
woman. I have great respect forall my colleagues, but it is not
my place to decide whether she ismy sister or my brother. Along with
his novels, John Stan also wrotetexts expressing his political views, always in
favour of the poor and women's rights. She is recognized as the

(39:13):
first author of a novel that differentiatesbetween biological sex and gender. I remain
others of myself an extensive literary workand today, fortunately, is better known
for the quality of his work thanfor his way of dressing and acting.
Upon his death in one thousand eighthundred and seventy- six, Victor Hugo

(39:34):
cried to a dead woman and greetedan immortal one. I have loved her,
admired and revered her. Today Icontemplate her in the august serenity of
death. I congratulate you because whatyou have done is great and I thank
you that what you have done isgood. Nothing like a book, It

(40:01):
is a podcast sponsored by the Libraryof the Canary Islands, of the Government
of the Canary Islands, led byJuan Carlos Saavedra and Daniel Martín. Nothing
like a book. We travel toa place called Samborondón to talk about children
' s and youth literature, storiesand stories for all audiences on Alicia Costa

(40:30):
' s website, we can readthat she is a psychologist, writer and
narrator, who is from Malaga andwas born near the sea. He spent
his childhood dreaming with his eyes openand inventing impossible worlds as a child he
wanted to be an astronaut to goto the moon, veterinary, to save

(40:52):
animals and writer so he could inventall the stories he wanted. And ever
since then Alicia has never stopped ordreamed, counting and describing. I don
' t know if it saves animals, if it has stepped on the moon,
but what I' m clear aboutis that with its stories we can

(41:14):
do both, save, save andfly and make it high. First of
all, thank you, Alicia,for your willingness and kindness to us.
You can tell that she was bornnear the sea. That is why this
space is called Samborondón, that imaginaryisland surrounded by all of us, surrounded

(41:37):
by our common sea. By theway, if you want to meet Alicia
on the net, you just haveto check out our own website for nothing
like a book. There we havea link and if you don' t
look for it on Instagram, likeAlicia costa writer and you can discover much

(41:58):
more about it. If we goto the dictionary of the Royal Spanish Academy
and look for the word rebellious,we can find qualifiers as disobedient, undisciplined,
untamed. Before a rebel unleashed arevolution and today it seems that the
rebels unleash thoughts and reflections. Evenlaughter begins to be regarded as an act

(42:22):
of rebellion. So we wanted tostart this interview by asking the alicia if
she agreed with this reflection and whatrole she thinks the writers and children'
s and youth literature should play inthis new framework. Well, actually,
I' ve always been a veryrebellious person since I was a child,

(42:44):
very restless, very untamed. Indeed, he was probably also something of that
obedient one. She was a kidwho questioned everything, asked everything and didn
' t settle for the first thingthey told me. No, I needed
to go further and find out formyself what my heart was really telling me

(43:05):
about a situation or something that wasbeing asked of me. I was not
content with the first thing that societytold me or my parents in that case,
that they were the people who withall their love tried to educate me
and everything has to be said.My parents, both my father and my
mother, have always tried to sowin me the germ of unrest of rebellion.

(43:27):
You tell me that before the rebelsunleashed a revolution and that now they
unleash thoughts and reflections. I believerebellion is part of human life. I
believe that all people go through stagesof rebellion, since that from when you
are a baby and you question theauthority of your father, your mother and

(43:47):
you try to get away with it, to that rebellion so characteristically adolescent,
in which they try to reaffirm andtry to look at the world from their
own perspective, from their own personality. And then, logically, that adult
look that is probably much more linkedto revolution, to changes, to the

(44:09):
struggle for those changes, to thestruggle for civil rights, to human rights.
Now, yes, I believe thatit is not that before a revolution
jumps and now of satanic thoughts andreflections, it is that, in reality,
every revolution is born of a thoughtor a reflection. From there it

(44:30):
is from where all that thought begins, from that reflection, in the seed
that causes the restlessness to arise andthe questioning, as I have already said,
of the order established for it.I am afraid that the role of
writers, writers of literature, inthis rebellion, in those changes, in
those revolutions, I believe that ithas been essential, at least in my

(44:53):
case, I, who have alwaysbeen a great reader, have spoken as
and read as Virginia Wolf YoCon DaBelli Chinoa. Cheve people writers and writers
who have made me see the worlddifferently or have invited me to see it

(45:15):
differently. And from there, then, I' ve been growing up my
own ideas and my own thoughts.So I think so, that it is
inevitable that literature and many writers andwriters, because they are generators and generators
of that seed that brings us thechanges, does not seem essential to me.

(45:39):
It seems to me in part aresponsibility. We even really encourage them
to discover Alicia Costa' s literature. For me it has an element that
makes it different, that anchors itto emotions and humanizes it, which is
the sense of humor. So weasked her if she thinks a sense of

(46:00):
humor is a space for rebellion.Also good, then, why humor in
a thousand books, Because for meit is essential, Because, well,
as I told you before, Ido not conceive life without humor. I
think humor facilitates the way, thathumor facilitates growth, that humor facilitates critical

(46:20):
thinking, that humor, humor facilitatesmuch in this life. And for me,
having a boy, a girl enjoyreading, makes her approach reading.
When a boy, a girl hasa good time and laughs at any of

(46:43):
my books, with the little stonework, it will be Fín, with a
very noisy room, with Renato,Nicanor, the island of the Juliet brats.
But he challenges, because when theylaugh, he makes them want to
go back there. Because, well, then, humor laughs. We already
know that helping the release of serotoninhelps make us happier. I, in

(47:04):
your own way, demand that evenif humor has a function at certain times,
I also demand and beg, please, the importance of amusement for pure
amusement, that is, that aboy, a girl can take a book,
can laugh, can pass it pipewithout having any other objective behind,
without having any function, any morals, no learning to get out of there,

(47:32):
but that it leads, for that, to pleasure for pleasure, to
read, to enjoy, to laugh. And, of course, in childhood,
when we are adults and adults,I think we move other kinds of
emotions in reading and enjoy other kindsof emotions, but in childhood. I
think humor is essential in his readingsand tearing out a laugh is the most

(47:58):
beautiful thing that can happen to youas an author. Of course, I
don' t think laughter is nowbeginning to be an act of rebellion.

(48:19):
I believe that laughter, since thehuman being is a human being, has
been linked to rebellion to a largeextent. There if we take a look
back, because we can see thehistory of carnivals, at least the carnivals
of Cadiz, with those letters sosmart, so biting, sometimes so rebellious

(48:43):
that I am amazed and fascinated.Humor is a space for rebellion, Of
course, without hesitation, I believethat humor is a space in which it
can express you freely and, atleast in my case, it can not
only express you freely through it.I believe in life through humor. I

(49:05):
think it is very important to knowhow to laugh about the day to day
of the same of certain problems,but it is also a space where to
sow that seed and where to invitein some way to the boys and girls
who have, the parents who readto you, well, to ask themselves

(49:30):
questions and sometimes to question themselves andsometimes in a sunny way, in a
way that they do not even realizein an obvious way, but rather good.
There is far away the crab thathas in a lot of moments of
his illustrations, that yes, thatis in humor, where that little crab
that seeks his house is getting in, because I don' t know in

(49:52):
a broken toy stroller that some boy, some girl or some girl has thrown
on the beach and we laugh atthe crab scene tucked into that stroller,
but at the same time we wonderwhy that stroller is there, when it
' s trash and it shouldn't be on a beach. Or the
same good thing, because when theyget into a teapot or get into it,

(50:15):
then they are situations from the humorin which we laugh, but at
the same time questioning us, questioningus and asking us, because a little
beyond what the story is telling us. No yes, humor seems to me
an essential space for rebellion, butI think it is not the only one.

(50:37):
That there are many types of humorand you have to enjoy them like
this with all its aspects. Lifewithout humor does not forget. Another of
the main plots of Alicia Costa's books is female empowerment. We ask

(51:00):
all of this why books, howto live the colored nails or the doll
of lucas Well, in reality Ialways say that I wish to live the
colored nails to stop succeeding or Lucas' doll or agapito the SAPO that wanted
to be prince that is another ofa thousand books that also talks about women
' s empowerment. The fact thatthese books are so successful and continue to

(51:25):
be sold so much and continue tobe reissued and reissued and reissued. It
is a sad sign to me thatwe still have much to do in this
society. We have many changes left, not only to make, but to
consolidate I think that we are ina moment, a terribly dangerous moment,

(51:46):
in which it is curious like allthose rights for which we have fought at
least my generation. As I havealready told you, I have been a
very active person in the social struggleand suddenly you realize how we are suffering
a setback, a setback, moreover, very significant, where statistics indicate how

(52:08):
a good part of youth believe thatgender- based violence does not exist,
as suddenly celebrations and demands such asPride Day or Women' s Day could
be, or should be demands thatshould already be symbolic, because we should
have made so much progress that itbecame a pure and hard celebration and suddenly

(52:31):
we realize that there are not manysteps behind it and even if there are
not still aggressions, but that thenumber of aggressions is increasing. The number
of dead women at the hands oftheir husbands or their exes or their boyfriends
or of whom the dream of beingtheir boyfriend is increasing a dizzying speed.

(52:55):
Then you realize that yes, thatthey are still necessary, that much,
much, much remains to be doneand, as I said, to be
strengthened. Although we look at you, both Luis and I tried that Lucas
' doll when we were writing it, we tried to make it a book
that already took certain things for granted, that it was not so much a

(53:20):
doctrinal book, but a book inwhich good, because there is a child
who wants to have a doll andhis father and mother do not question anything,
they simply give it to him.But it' s curious not that
Lucas' s doll is still partof many violet eschantries, it is used
as an example of one of thebooks that speaks of co- education and
equality, when in reality it isa story that speaks of a conflict resolution

(53:45):
between equals, it speaks of theright to be wrong, it speaks of
the right to forgiveness And the onlything that is that in its content there
is a child who plays with dollsnotice. It' s just funny.
For me, that makes me wonderthe same thing, that detail makes me
think that there are still many thingsleft to change, because if I didn

(54:06):
' t go into a violet shelf, if it wasn' t, I
' d go into any shelf.A book in which its protagonist plays with
a doll. I mean, simplyand as usual in many of our interviews,
we like to end up asking ourauthors, our authors, what literature,

(54:30):
children' s and youth literature hastaught them. Well, for me
the children' s literature and thechildren' s literature has taught me a
lot of things if I speak toyou, because since I was a child,
for me, reading, the storieshave been the pre- living essay.

(54:51):
When you read history as a littlegirl, you' re doing pre
- training, you' re livingthings that you wouldn' t live in
your everyday life. Through that character, that protagonist or that protagonist of that
story you' re enjoying. Itis what is called authority when through the
skin of that character, it isworth redundancy, because you live a completely

(55:19):
different life, you have an experiencethat would not be given in your realm,
social, school, or family.Then it' s very interesting.
In fact, I always say thatI like traditional stories a lot, because
traditional stories aren' t as sweetas literature that we put girls and boys
in our hands today. Then they' re stories they taught us, because

(55:45):
I was lucky enough to be ableto enjoy it. He taught us that
not always good triumphs, that thingsdon' t always go the way you
want them to go. Then itis a vital pre- training, very,
very interesting and necessary already as anadult, as an author, as
a writer. Children' s andyoung people' s literature teaches me every

(56:09):
day, teaches me to respect childhood. It teaches me to respect feelings and
emotions and for me, the actof writing an act of ultimate responsibility.
A lot of people think to write. It' s easy for you to
write. The story becomes the bookand ping pong reaches families. Many times
before I write a book, whenI am involved in a story, I

(56:35):
investigate as a psychologist and research,well, where I should throw or where
I should not throw. What shouldI say that I should not put in
books, for example, such asthat of Peque and I had a very
important work behind it with a teamof psychologist and psychologist specialized in mourning,
in child mourning, so that itwould be a responsible book, so that

(56:57):
it would be a book that wouldprovide a real tool for the whole issue
of grief in childhood small I anda book written with a lot, a
lot, a lot of care and, as I say, with a lot
of irresponsibility, not only him,also, for example, because my most
terrible nightmares, the same or alove sandwich, please, that speaks of

(57:22):
divorce, separation and all those emotionsthat arise in children, all those questions
that are asked in that divorce process. For I was lucky enough to have
a career partner specializing precisely in separations, well, because complicated, who was
there accompanying me so that this book, well, had a message that was

(57:43):
correct, that was suitable for me, children' s and young people'
s literature is a continuous learning,both in what I read today, adult
and narrator, as an author asa lover of children' s and youth
' s literature. And, ofcourse, because that is an everyday learning,

(58:07):
a learning that does not end.I' m left with that reflection
that life without humor is less life. Thank you, Alicia and Alicia,
for sharing, for lending and forgiving us your literature. From here.
Thank you for inviting me to sharethis little bit of talk and reflection about
rebellion with you. It' sbeen a real pleasure. It has been

(58:32):
an honor and nothing to wish,of course, that you do not stop
enjoying my little insanity, my books, my stories and that you continue to
tell it and send a huge kissto you? Enor I am enormous and
I said that thank you so muchfor having made me part of this space,

(58:54):
your space of your house, whichnow is also mine, not a
huge kiss. Verses to the windpoems until the next encounter. Mercedes Pinto
was born in Laguna in one thousandeight hundred and eighty- three. We

(59:15):
can read on the portal of theCanarian Academy of Language that at the age
of twenty he arrives in Madrid andworks with personalities such as Ortega and Gassette
and Carmen de Burgos. He collaboratesin prestigious Spanish newspapers and magazines and publishes
his first book of verse breezes ofthe Teide. There he will also give

(59:37):
his controversial conference divorce as a hygienicmeasure direct motive for his exile under the
dictatorship of Primo de Rivera. Wehave selected the rebellion poem from the book
Chanting of many ports, published inone thousand nine hundred and thirty- one,

(59:57):
which Lee E interprets for us Illuminated, rosemary come and give me your
hand which in mine will be likebronze and thus melted. We' ll
break the world. If you goin the world they raise enemy hands,

(01:00:19):
we will go very erect heads concupidedin the arms, made flesh to tell
the deaf and blind of life,that we broke down towers of prejudice,
striking with foreheads on the stones,that we removed the nails from the carts
of the creeping and free vultures,we made butterflies with the leaves of the

(01:00:45):
ancient laws and toys to our cupidillowith the old bows of the chains of
the earth. Nothing like a book, it' s a podcast sponsored by
the Ministry of Culture and funded bythe European Union with the EU' s

(01:01:08):
next innaration funds led by Juan CarlosSaavedra and Daniel Martín