Ep 72 - Navigating “Gourmet” with Diane Rovner

France is synonymous with its food culture, but with a rise in foodies in the U.S., how does France's food culture stand out? Here to discuss the French attitude towards food from a cultural standpoint is Diane Rovner, a former food magazine editor, food tour guide, and founder of Bordeaux in Bites. She's here to help us navigate the word gourmet.

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Credits 
Host: Emily Monaco. @Emily_in_France; Website: http://www.tomatokumato.com and http://www.emilymmonaco.com Producer: Jennifer Geraghty. @jennyphoria; Website: http://jennyphoria.com

Music Credits 
Édith Piaf - La Vie en Rose (DeliFB Lofi Remix) 
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🎵 DeliFB:  https://www.youtube.com/c/DeliFB  https://soundcloud.com/delifb  https://www.instagram.com/cativo.kevin/  https://twitter.com/DeliciousFB 

About Us 
From one Emily in Paris to another... just speaking French isn't enough to understand the intricacies of the locals, but it's definitely a good place to start. Famously defended by armed "immortals" of the Académie Française (no, we're not making this up) the French language is filled with clues that show interested outsiders what, exactly, makes the French tick. 

Each episode, listen in as Emily Monaco and an expert take a deep dive into a word that helps us gain a keener understanding of the French.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You are listening to Navigating the Frenchon Paris Underground Radio. For more great
content and a bonus episode of Navigatingthe French, please join us on Patreon.
Hello and welcome to Navigating the French, the podcast where each episode we
take a look at a French wordand try and see what it tells us

(00:22):
about French culture. I'm your host, Emily Monico. Today I'm joined by
Diane Rovner, a former food magazineeditor, food tour guide and founder of
Bordeaux Invites. She's here to discussthe history and evolution of the French cultural
approach to food, whether it comesto quantity or quality, as she helps
us navigate Gourmet. I am soexcited to welcome you to the podcast.

(00:49):
Diane. We've been colleagues for awhile. We love talking about food,
and you have a really interesting backgroundin food and in your life here in
France. Can you tell our listenersa little bit about who you are and
where you come from? Oh?Absolutely, well. First of all,
thank you so much Emily for invitingme on your lovely program. I'm excited

(01:11):
to talk to you and your listeneris about life and about my life in
particular, So yes, my name'sDiane Rodner, and very briefly, I'm
the owner of a futur company inBordeaux called Bordeaux in Bites. And my
background actually does span different countries anddifferent industries, starting with working at the

(01:32):
Late Great Gourmet magazine back in theday in New York, doing food tours
in Paris, and now being basedin the Southwest Amazing and the Late Great
Gourmet Magazine is, you know,part of what I am excited to talk
to you about, because this wordthat we're going to try and suss out

(01:53):
together today is one of my absolutefavorites in French because it really doesn't have
a great translation, and that's thisword gaurmont. And you know, you
have been living here in France,I think even longer than I have,
and you know, over time livingin France interacting with French people, there
are these words that you're like,I wish we had a way to say

(02:15):
that. And gulemeant is a wordthat I feel lacks an adequate translation,
but I feel like it's often kindof compared with gourmet, but there is
a big difference. So from yourperspective, right off the bat, do
you into it like a difference inconnotation and in meaning between when someone says
that they're a gaumont versus when someonesays that they're a goulme in French.

(02:38):
Yeah, and I think that's agreat question to start off with, because
I mean, technically, gomes inFrench is supposed to mean glutton or you
know, somebody's who's actually greedy.So I think there's a negative connotation that's
sometimes associated with it, sometimes pejorative, and then gourmet, I think is

(03:00):
usually what people are trying to describewhen they mean that they are very interested
in food, very curious about it, you know, into fine wine and
dining. But yeah, I dofeel that people ought to get them a
bit confused, even in French.Yeah, And I think one thing I
love about the word goumal in Frenchspecifically is that, like you said,

(03:21):
it is this translation for glutton,and I see people often saying greedy as
a translation. But I feel likethe negative connotation of greedy in English isn't
quite as strong with goalmeal, likeyou can have like like one of my
favorite ways to use the word goumalis actually in like a modified term,
which is gulman zis, and it'slike when people offer you like a slice

(03:45):
of cake at the end of ameal and you're like, I've actually i'm
full, I'm sated, but PaGulmans is, yes, I will have
some cake. And it's not likeit's not like you're being actually greedy.
It's not like you're if there's notthat sort of sense of almost overwhelming access
that there is with gluttony. It'skind of like this is going to feed

(04:06):
a different kind of hunger. It'sgoing to feed like my pleasure hunger,
but not like my stomach hunger.Yeah, I would agree with that.
I think I think that's a muchmore appropriate way to describe the nuance.
So I mean, with that inmind, do you think that French people
would be like proud or embarrassed tosay that they're a gourmand? Oh gosh,

(04:32):
you know, I'm to be reallyhonest, I don't know many people
who use that word in a positiveway. And again maybe it's just the
people I know or I associate with, but I would say in general,
I think people I wouldn't use theword, you know, being embarrassed or
attaching shame to it. But it'snot usually something I think that I would

(04:57):
say is said with any pride,because I think part of why, you
know, you always hear that questionof like, oh, why are French
people so thin? And I thinkit's because they live in a country or
we live in a country where thereis a lot of you know, perceived
gluttony. But then there's a lotof course correction, like immediately after ooh,
okay, tell me about that,what do you mean. Well,

(05:18):
I mean so many times I've beenwith my husband's family or you know,
friends' families or whatever. So theyhave these like enormous decadent meals when you
dream about it in France, andthen you know, at some point in
the conversation or definitely the next day, it's like, oh, well,
we just have all of that food, so now we're going to have,

(05:39):
you know, some lighter things today, some salads, et cetera. And
so there's much more of this ideaof let's balance all of these things that
we've just ingested, versus again comingfrom the States where it's like, we
don't course correct. We like toeat this thing. It's delicious, I'm
just going to keep eating it andeating it every day. So it's a

(06:02):
very different way of looking at food. I pointed this out recently because even
my husband didn't notice. But ifyou're ever in the metron Paris, and
food advertisement in France in general,by law, has these small little sentences
at the end, you know,or at the very bottom that says something
like, oh, exercise regularly oreat fruits and vegetables every day. Have

(06:26):
you seen those? Emily don whatI'm talking about totally, And like I
always make fun of those on mytours, like the fact that whenever they
advertise snack food in France, there'salways that little like disclaimer at the end
that reminds me of when they usedto advertise cigarettes on television, which is
like snack and moderation, like asnack is a little bit scary exactly.

(06:46):
So I think it's kind of funnyagain to live in a country that's so
known for food but in many wayshas built into the culture the idea of
balance, moderation, pacing, ifyou will. And so I think,
going back your question, Gourmand,like I said, I don't want to
entirely slay it as a negative word, but I personally don't know people who

(07:06):
use it positively. I would sayI would agree with you, and I
think it's like maybe neutral to slightlynegative, whereas glutton in English is very
negative. So maybe what I'm noticingis like a sliding scale rather than the
fact like that it's actually positive.But it's not this sort of thing that

(07:27):
you would self flagellate about in theway that you might say in English,
like oh my god, I wasso bad yesterday because I ate cake.
It's more of those slight like whatyou were describing, these slight corrections.
I still remember reading in like aFrench women's magazine. I was like sitting
in a doctor's office waiting room,and it was like mounu epipet and it

(07:47):
was like in the morning, likehave a yogurt and a piece of fruit
for lunch, have like this soup, and like it wasn't like about doing
a cleanse and starving yourself the nextday, Like you ate a lot of
foie gral yesterday, so today maybeeat a vegetable. Yeah exactly, Yeah,

(08:09):
okay. So we have this likeidea of a gourmet, which I
think to a certain extent is linkedto like the quantity of food that you
eat. But then we have thisword gulmet and gourmet obviously we've borrowed into
English, we have the word gourmet. We use the word gourmet I think
in English often as like an adjective, like we say, like, you
know, a gourmet something, butin French you also have like the gourmet

(08:33):
the person. Do you feel likea gourmet in French is like a foodie?
Is it like a quality driven thing? And is that something to be
proud of? Oh gosh, yeah, I think I would say in a
very different context it's a very positivething. So kind of like what you're

(08:54):
accurately saying. Using it as anadjective, I feel like it's used or
to reflect something of high quality,you know, something really above average,
if not excellent, and something definitelyto be proud of as well. So
if it was you know, aperson, then obviously it would be somebody

(09:16):
who's interested in, you know,such foods or you know, a lifestyle,
if you will, But using itas an adjective like a gourmet meal,
definitely, I think that that's meantto be reflective of, you know,
just that it's it's really truly exceptional. And in France, do you
feel like that's the best the mostapt sort of translation for the word foodie

(09:37):
or is is it different? I'msure no, I mean it and foodi
is such a funny word too,because you know, don't get me started.
I mean, so many people whenI'll say to the oh, so
you're a foodie, and they justvehemently like, do not like that word
for whatever connotation they've put on.I think that's the funny thing about language

(09:58):
in general, and why I appreciateit, you know, these conversations you
like to have is because there's Ithink the dictionary definition of what a word
is kind of like what we're talkingabout with Gromond, But then there's the
sort of like subtle contextual definitions weput on it that are really more you
know, social constructs or just howit's gotten kind of used and thrown around
over time. So, yeah,is gourmet a foodie? All? Yeah,

(10:24):
I would, I would say,So, I don't. I don't
know if there's an exact equivalent tofood and French, to be honest,
so I would say would be theclosest. Yeah. Well, I mean,
if there isn't an exact translation,I wonder if it's because we conceive
of, you know, an interestin food in different ways in both countries.
Like, I feel like, obviouslyyou and I have both noticed in

(10:46):
recent years, you know, beinginterested in food, being excited about learning
more about food, about where yourfood comes from, is kind of on
the rise in both countries. ButI'm curious if you've noticed a difference in
the way that French people sort ofconceive of their interest or relationship to food.

(11:07):
Let's, for the sake of thisargument, say we're talking about people
who are interested in food, becauseobviously, in both America and France there
are people who couldn't care less.But if you are into food in France
or in the US, do youfeel like the way in which we engage
with food, like intellectually or evenlike in the preparation and the time and

(11:28):
money we're going to spend on food, is it the same or do you
notice some major differences between the waythat like French foodies or French gourmets and
American foodies or American gourmets engage withtheir food. Oh one, okay,
I you know, again, likeyou having kind of this access and sort
of cultural perspective on both countries,it's really fascinating to compare the two.

(11:50):
So I remember growing up in theUS before the Food Network, and so
the idea of you know, beinginterested in food, I feel like was
a cultural shift in the US thatI think became much more intensified with again
the rise of things like the FoodNetwork, leisurely and casually watching people cook

(12:15):
on TV, and then of coursenow in the day and age of social
media and Instagram. So I thinkin the US, and I lived in
New York as well too, soI feel that our interest in relationship with
you know, higher quality food isI would say, much more. And

(12:37):
again I'm hesitant to use this word, but sort of associated with an elitism,
right, So it's like, ifyou have the money to go to
such restaurants, you know, andagain I'm talking about my perspective living in
New York, it was a luxury. Or again, if you had the
money to eat out at these placesall the time, then again you were

(12:58):
considered very wealthy. Even I thinkwhen I go back home these days,
it's like, oh, I onlyshop at Whole Foods, and that's associated
with a certain lifestyle and a certainincome level, we'll say. Whereas you
know, pre all of that,it was like we would all go to
the same supermarkets. It would befine. You know, your mom would
cook whatever, you would eat whateverschool lunches, and it was all fine.

(13:20):
And so I think that's why Ido get that reaction every now and
then when people are like, no, I'm not a foodie, because there's
a certain again elitism that can besort of associated with that, Whereas in
France, I feel it's completely completelydifferent. Where you know, one,
you're living in a country the sizeof Texas, right, and so you

(13:43):
have a much smaller population to feed, and by its very nature less industrialization.
And so I think because of that, all the French people I know,
including my husband, grew up withvery high quality food from the you
know, in their household. Youknow, they had a farmer that was

(14:03):
local that they would get, youknow, there'd be from or their vegetables
from. You know. I thinkeven in cities like Paris, you know,
we have regular farmers' markets at leastonce, if not twice a week
in our neighborhoods. So the accessto really high quality foods is very normalized
and it's not associated with I'm goingto go to whole foods or I'm going

(14:24):
to pay more money to access thisit's very equalized, it's very democratic,
and I think restaurants as well too. You know, the friends are really
lucky that they have this incredible historyof great ingredients, great recipes, great
traditions, great techniques that they justgrew up eating. And so yeah,

(14:45):
of course you can eat, youknow, low quality meals the quality food.
It's of course everywhere. But Ifeel like the relationship with better quality
of food has just always been intrinsicallyin the culture. And I feel like,
if there is an kind of shifttowards, you know, being more
of a foodie, it's again,I think it's because of social media.

(15:05):
It's because of Instagram driving like,oh, we need to go try this
new restaurant, We need to goeat this new thing. In the ten
years i've been here, what I'veseen more and more about the changing habits
of French food culture is, Ihate to say, it's becoming more American.
So I sort of joke about thiswith people on my tours of like,

(15:28):
oh, you're going to see alot more like American style cookies and
carrot cake and banana bread. Andyou know, I hate to say,
like more fast food chains coming inas well too, and people actually being
kind of excited about it because it'sdifferent for them totally. You know,
if you've grown up eating you know, Macrol all of your life and Clissanto
all of your life, it's kindof cool to be like, oh,

(15:50):
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(16:11):
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French. I mean, I lovethat you brought this up because I feel

(16:33):
like part of the what's the word, I suppose the sadistic pleasure I get
out of this podcast is in breakingpeople's images of France, because I think
obviously there's some truth to this youknow image we have, but you need
to take off the rose colored glasses, and everybody thinks, oh, like
you know, everyone grew up learninghow to make coco hoe at their mother's

(16:56):
knee, and every know. Alot of French people, you know,
shot pica, which makes frozen food. A lot of French people don't know
how to cook or aren't interested incooking, and there has been I mean,
I think maybe I don't know howyou feel about this, but my
impression is that maybe the French didn'tnecessarily become quite as disjointed from their food
system as the Americans did. Sothe pendulum shift had less like what hadn't

(17:21):
swung so far towards industrialization as itdid, and so the swing back is
a little less intense and less pronounced. And I think the same is true
when you were talking earlier about ourapproach to you know, the healthy eating.
After we feel like we've indulged,we're both going to make corrections,
but the corrections in France will bea little more subtle. But here I'm

(17:42):
definitely seeing social media is driving alot of changes in France. Food TV,
you know, Top Chef is reallypopular in France, and all these
top chef winners are opening their brandnew restaurants and there's a little bit of
a status searching for Oh, youhave to get to that new restaurant right
away, that kind of thing.So, I mean, it's not completely

(18:03):
dissimilar. It's not as though everybodyin France is still making Grandma's old fashioned
French recipe every single day and takingtwo hours for lunch. Yeah, that's
that's completely true. And I thinksince we well I'm in Paris at the
moment as we're speaking, but youknow, what I've seen more and more
that people get excited about is andagain I hate to use this word,

(18:26):
but what I call fusion food,right. I mean, I'm sure you've
seen this too, where it's like, let's go try this new restaurant where
the chef is from fill in theblank country, whether it's Japan, where
it's the Philippines, and this istheir take on French food. And I
think as a French person again,it's super exciting to have this exposure to

(18:48):
other cultures to you know, seeingyour cuisine I think shift in really interesting
ways, and I think in manygood ways. For sure. Those are
the kind of trends that I'm notingnow it's less and less let's stick with
tradition. It's more, it's becomingmore experimental. Yeah, and so you
now design and run food tours inBordeaux, which I think is an interesting

(19:12):
place to be working because it's avibrant place. There's a lot of innovation
there, which I know we've spokenabout before. But it's also a lot
smaller than Paris, so maybe youget like a little bit more of a
distilled image of sort of what's happening. I'm curious, sort of double pronged
question here. What elements of thefood scene in Bordeaux do you get the

(19:34):
most excited to share with visitors?And if it's different, what elements of
the food scene do you think thatyour guests are most excited to discover.
M Okay, yeah, that's agreat double pronged question. Okay, So
the first part of your question,which i'll just still as you know,

(19:55):
how is Bordeaux different than Paris moreor less? Kind of the way I
was just described how I think Ishould say Parisians are excited about fusion again
for lack of a better word,and most of the restaurants and trends are
about trying this new take on Frenchfood. What I love about Bordeaux and
what I tell visitors is here's kindof a playground where you get, you

(20:19):
know, the same excellent products,the same excellent techniques, the same you
know, people who are passionate aboutfood, but who get to be creative
in a city where the stakes aremuch lower. So I think the result
is way more interesting. To bereally honest, again, I'm not trying
to knock Paris at all, butI just you know, it's Paris doesn't

(20:41):
need anymore. Paris is fine,But I just I feel like, you
know, again, imagine Paris wouldbe like New York right where it's again,
if you're trying to open up asmall business or restaurant, the stakes
are so much higher because you know, the runts are so extremely high for
your country. You know, thespaces are timy, et cetera. And

(21:02):
then people come to Bordeaux and thenit's like I can do whatever I want,
you know, And it's just beenso interesting to see how that's developed,
especially in the last five years.I really have to say. So,
I think, just to give yourlisteners a bit of context. Oh
god, I'm blinking on the date, but I want to say something like
twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen in France, there was a high speed trend that

(21:25):
connected Paris and Bordeaux in just twohours. So that kicked off this massive
not so massive, but like ashift in people moving down to the southwest
and saying we have a much higherquality of life with pretty much all the
benefits of Paris. So and Iknow you and I have talked about like
if Bordeau is kind of a miniversion of Paris. I would say yes,

(21:47):
in a good way. And soI think again, the result is
you have all these people who aresuper excited to you know, explore their
own creativity in Bordeaux and this reallygreat city. And so the trends I
would say, I see there arepeople who are less dealing with fusion but

(22:08):
more on par with experimenting with Frenchingredients. And I think that that actually
is really really exciting to me.So because you have an entire country of
regional French products, and I'm notjust talking about okay, you have like
the French Basque region, which nota lot of people are familiar with,
but you have like Pimant to splityou have like all these great products and

(22:29):
things that are grown specifically in theSouthwest region. But a lot of people
don't know that there is a beerculture in France, and more and more
people have started up their own breweries. So one of the cheese shops I
love, the guy actually has aninsane collection of beers and he wants to
encourage you to do a beer andcheese pairing, which would be unheard of

(22:52):
in France, and they're mostly Frenchbeers. So yeah, this is the
kind of stuff that I really likeintroducing to people to say, like,
look, you don't always have toturn outward for inspiration. You can actually
turn inward and you know, lookat the results of that. So the
places we go to are are reallyreally exceptional on our tours, of course,

(23:12):
But to the second part of yourquestion, I think the people we
get on our tours one, Ithink they're really excited to discover Bordeaux itself,
and Bordeaux is very much under theradar in a lot of ways.

(23:32):
And I say that only because I'vemet a lot of people who land in
Bordeaux and immediately rent a car anddrive out to one of the local yards,
and so they kind of sidestep Bordeauxas a city almost entirely, which
I think is such a shame because, as I said, like it's really
transitioned, especially in the last fiveyears. I think they're also really excited,

(23:55):
and I'm excited for them to discoverthings from the Southwest. So again,
not a lot of people really getexposed to how distinct food from the
Southwest is or the regional differences,and so that is something that I think
we showcase for sure, starting withcheeses for example. So there's a number

(24:17):
of cheeses you can't find in otherparts of France that are only available with
the Southwest. You know a numberof other products that come from the Southwest
that are just really excellent there,and people don't realize that it's such a
such an amalgam that's more than justwine. Right, So you've got like
oysters from the Bay of Aquachons.You have again the French Basque region which
I mentioned, so we actually includegetto Basque, which a lot of people

(24:41):
have never tried. The cheeses Imentioned, which are excellent, most of
them are sheeps make cheeses typically theyou know flogois and you know related duck
products that are all based in theSouthwest. Yeah, they're just they're just
exceptional, and so yeah, Iget excited exploring those variations with people,

(25:03):
and I think as a result,they get to get excited through on tours.
That's awesome. If you suddenly gota request and it was French people
coming on one of your tours inBordeaux. Is there anything that you would
change about the way that you approachwhat these elements of the scene that so
excite you so that it would sortof better suit a French audience or do

(25:26):
you feel like the things that you'reexcited about would also excite a French person.
Oh, that's a great question.I actually wouldn't change anything. Usually
we have had French people on toursbefore, so they're coming from other parts
of France, so again they're notas familiar with some of these regional distinctions
that we were just talking about.But again, I think they would be

(25:48):
really excited to see the innovation thatI was just talking about. So the
idea of like, oh, we'vegot French beer, let's pair that with
different things, or you know,and like let's learn how our own products
are being used in a more contemporary. So yeah, I think I think
French people would get a lot outof it as well. Okay, so
they're not. I mean again,we're trying to break with stereotypes here,

(26:14):
and I was just sort of curiousto see, do you think that the
French are more likely to want toprotect tradition or are they for the most
part welcoming of these sort of innovationsthat you've been talking about. Oh,
I guess it depends on the kindof French person, right, that's true.
It's fair. So maybe if theywere older, they might have more

(26:37):
attachment to the tradition. I thinkyounger French people, because they're so open
to all these new, different experiencesand inspirations, I think they would be
psyched for it. But yeah,I would say it depends on the totally.
I mean, I know, wheneverI ask questions like this, we're
always being forced to overgeneralize. Andlike I recently was organizing a cheese and

(27:02):
wine tasting, and I love cheeseand beer tastings, by the way,
I think that's awesome. But Iwas organizing a cheese and wine tasting and
I went to the local cooperative,you know, in the south of France
and asked for a bottle of cremonto go with some of the cheeses,
and everybody in the room was like, well, because they were all French,
sort of aghast. They were like, oh, no, that's more

(27:22):
of an apparateif and I was like, yeah, I know, but also
it's delicious with cheese, and Ithink sometimes people are willing to just sort
of try it. And to befair, four of the people on the
tasting were French and they were like, oh, that's really interesting. I
never would have thought to do that. But a lot of people, I
think, do kind of bulk,especially when you or I. I don't

(27:45):
know about you, but for me, when I am a foreigner and I'm
saying, what if you tried yourtraditional food this way? And a lot
of the time I get sort ofthat like oh, you can't touch that,
that's almost sacred. But I thinkit depends on maybe the generation and
the French person and I think thatalso, and you know, maybe it's

(28:08):
just the French pople I know,but it depends on the generation. I
think it also depends a bit onwho is suggesting it. So if it's
quote unquote an expert like you orme, or another you know, well
highly respected, French trained chef.Then they'd be like, oh okay.

(28:29):
But it was just like you know, average jow on the street who's like,
oh, you should try this.I think people are a little more
skeptical or you know, I meantechnically, since I'm American, I also
get some of that skepticism as welltoo. But one of the guides that
works with me, Alexandre, whowas obviously French, he'll say it and
people are like, oh, okay, that's so good, that's really interesting.

(28:55):
So it could be a little bitof that as well. If you're
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(29:18):
You've kind of jokingly said before thatlike the French want to be told
what to like. Yeah, that'smy understanding anyway, But you're right,
it does matter who's doing the tellingfor sure. Yeah, and they like
a bit of I think they liketo be told what they like because they
like to engage with it. Sothey're like, tell me what I should

(29:40):
like so that I can argue withyou. Yeah, exactly, well,
and that's you know, those aresome of the conversations I have with our
vendors, to be really, reallyhonest. So again, you know,
on a typical tour, we're notforcing you to do, for example,
beer and cheese. That's just anice option, and I think a really
unique option. The conversations that I'llhave with David will be like, oh,

(30:03):
you know, he gets such resistancefrom other French people, and it's
because he's in Bordeaux first of all, obviously, but you know, you
still have a lot of traditional waysof thinking. And I've met other you
know, somoliers and cavis, youknow, wine shop managers who will say,

(30:25):
oh, you only have cheese withlight red wine. You know,
like they have the kinds of thingsthat they sort of stick to. Or
you know, a really common thingthat they do in the French Basque region,
which I learned living in Spirits,was you know, pairing Jesus with
a black chair jam and so thoseare things that you don't see in other

(30:45):
parts of France, but you know, they do exist and then when you
try them, you know they're delicious, and then people are like, oh,
okay, you know, I'm reallyreally delighted that I tried. Yeah,
that's awesome. So where can peoplefind you? How can people come
and take one of your amazing toursin Bordeaux? I thank you for asking,

(31:06):
Emily. The best way is togo to the website. So Bordeaux
invites dot com. It's Bordeaux,the city in bites and yeah, we
would love to welcome any and allof you to take a tour of us.
And do you do typically private tours, small group tours? What do

(31:26):
they look like if somebody joins oneof your tours? Okay, so another
great question. They're generally small grouptours max is eight people to keep it
nice and cozy. And what's reallynice is that they're as personalized as possible.
So the thing I always want toimpress upon people is we don't it's

(31:47):
not a factory experience. We don'tget exactly the same things every single time.
It's really you know what you're creousabout trying, I or the guides
will gauge you know, your interestlevel and certain things or what you're curious
about and we can kind of leaninto that more or steer away from,
you know, other things based onwhat you guys want to try. But
I think it keeps it really keepsit fresh and again makes it a more

(32:13):
memorable experience for you because you didn'ttravel all the way to eat, you
know, breathe right. So wewant to get you things that you're actually
like interested in trying but amazing.It's a small group tour and they're a
lot of fun and they end ina wine shop. So who's love that?
Yeah? Exactly? Who does notwant to do that? Well,
for anyone who wants to join aBordeaux Invites tour, we will put a

(32:37):
link to the website in the shownotes so you can feel free to click
on that, get in touch withDiane and her fantastic team on the ground
there in Bordeaux and ask her evenmore about gormal and gourmet and all elements
of French food culture. She willdefinitely hook you up. Diane, thank
you so much for joining me today. It has been so fun. Before

(32:58):
I let you go, I justhave one question for you, and that
is what is your favorite word inFrench? Oh? Put you on the
spot there, I Wow, Iwas so thrown. I'm not I was
not expecting it. I'm I'm justgonna like first word coming to my head.
Yeah after ooh, I like thatone. We don't really have the

(33:22):
equivalents in English. And for thoseof you who don't know, so if
you go to a cheese after,no, it's somebody who ages their own
cheese. But I just I don'tknow. I think it's a I think
it's a cool word. It isa cool word. I like that amazing.
Well, maybe you'll get a chanceto visit an affineau if you go
on a Bordeaux invites tour. Comecome to Bordeaux, Go to Bordeaux,

(33:44):
Go to Bordeaux. It's great.Thank you so much. Have a great
rest of your day. Thank youso much. Emily. This has been
Navigating the French. You can findmore from me Emily Monica at Emily Underscore
in Underscore France, on Twitter andInstagra. This podcast is produced by Paris
Underground Radio. To listen to otherepisodes of this podcast, or to discover

(34:06):
more podcasts like it, please visitParis Underground radio dot com. Thanks for
listening and abientu. This episode ofNavigating the French. Was produced by Jennifer
Garrity for Paris Underground Radio. Formore great content, join us on Patreon
at patreon dot com slash Paris UndergroundRadio