November 3, 2024 • 29 mins
When we describe something as exceptional in English, we're alluding to the way it stands out in a positive way. But in French, the opposite is often true, as journalist and writer Hannah Meltzer is here to explore as we navigate exceptionnellement.
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Credits
Host: Emily Monaco. @Emily_in_France; Website: http://www.tomatokumato.com and http://www.emilymmonaco.com
Producer: Jennifer Geraghty. @jennyphoria; Website: http://jennyphoria.com
Music Credits
Édith Piaf - La Vie en Rose (DeliFB Lofi Remix)
🎵 MSKD Sounds: https://www.instagram.com/mskd_sounds/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRql... https://soundcloud.com/mskd_sounds
🎵 DeliFB: https://www.youtube.com/c/DeliFB https://soundcloud.com/delifb https://www.instagram.com/cativo.kevin/ https://twitter.com/DeliciousFB
About Us
From one Emily in Paris to another... just speaking French isn't enough to understand the intricacies of the locals, but it's definitely a good place to start. Famously defended by armed "immortals" of the Académie Française (no, we're not making this up) the French language is filled with clues that show interested outsiders what, exactly, makes the French tick.
Each episode, listen in as Emily Monaco and an expert take a deep dive into a word that helps us gain a keener understanding of the French.
Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/parisundergroundradio
Find Us Online
Website: https://www.parisundergroundradio.com/navigatingthefrench
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/parisundergroundradio
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parisundergroundradio/
Credits
Host: Emily Monaco. @Emily_in_France; Website: http://www.tomatokumato.com and http://www.emilymmonaco.com
Producer: Jennifer Geraghty. @jennyphoria; Website: http://jennyphoria.com
Music Credits
Édith Piaf - La Vie en Rose (DeliFB Lofi Remix)
🎵 MSKD Sounds: https://www.instagram.com/mskd_sounds/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRql... https://soundcloud.com/mskd_sounds
🎵 DeliFB: https://www.youtube.com/c/DeliFB https://soundcloud.com/delifb https://www.instagram.com/cativo.kevin/ https://twitter.com/DeliciousFB
About Us
From one Emily in Paris to another... just speaking French isn't enough to understand the intricacies of the locals, but it's definitely a good place to start. Famously defended by armed "immortals" of the Académie Française (no, we're not making this up) the French language is filled with clues that show interested outsiders what, exactly, makes the French tick.
Each episode, listen in as Emily Monaco and an expert take a deep dive into a word that helps us gain a keener understanding of the French.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Navigating the French on Paris Underground Radio.
For more great content and a bonus episode of Navigating
the French, please join us on Patreon.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello and welcome to Navigating French, the podcast where each
episode we take a look at a French word and
try and see what it tells us about French culture.
I'm your host, Emily Monica. Today I'm joined by Hannah Meltzer,
a journalist and writer whose work often focuses on the
cultural differences between her native London and adopted France. She's
here to explore a word that doesn't have nearly the
(00:36):
same positive connotations in French as it does in English
and gives us a hint at the differences between the
way we consider rules and norms in France and the UK.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Excepttion Nemo. I'm so excited to welcome Hannah Meltzer to
the podcast. Hannah, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Such pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So, Hannah, tell us a little bit of about who
you are and what you are doing here in France.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
So I am a writer and journalist. I'm originally from
London in the UK. I grew up there and I
studied French at university, which is where my love of
France came from. And I moved over here seven years ago,
partially after the UK voted to leave the European Union,
which was a fun year. Yeah, and I've been I'm
(01:25):
a journalist and I write for the Telegraph as a
specialist on Paris and French culture, and a little bit
for The Times. And I also have my own newsletter
called pen Friend that I send every week, which.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I highly recommend and is how I discovered Hannah's amazing
insights into French culture. So we'll be sure and drop
a link to that and as well as to her
other journalism in the show notes, so you can stay
abreast of what Hannah's up to. But she is here today.
You're here today to chat with me about one of
my absolute favorite French words, which is except to thenmont,
(01:58):
which looks like it should mean exceptionally and kind of does.
But when we say exceptional in English and accepts you
there in French, we mean two pretty different things. So
how would you, sort of, first off, just from a
definition perspective, draw the line between those two words.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah, I think in English the word exceptional it's got
a mostly positive connotation, and actually it's quite an exceptionally
positive word. It's a really really high praise. If you
call someone exceptional, I would say for most of the time,
or something food or a person or a place, and
there is that meaning to it. In French, it can
(02:39):
mean something that's you know, it's singular. But it can
also mean something that is a one off. And that's
how I think most of us living here in France.
Here it used more commonly, so in its adjective form
or in its adverb form even more so so excepts
you nel mont means something is an exception, it's a
one off. We hear that used in quite interesting ways
(03:02):
here in France. I'm sure you've experienced that as well.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, that's That's always been my joke, is that I've
been here for seventeen years, and I always say that
if I ever write a memoir of my life in France,
which there are enough memoirs about.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
People's lives, you want it. We wanted it.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I mean, if I was to put my own voice
into the Mali, I would call my memoir exception at
mal famee, because I feel like I am doted with
like a unique curse that every time I show up
some sort of office that's typically opened on Tuesday from
ten to noon and then from one to five, I'll
show up at three and they're like, ah, but exception ed, mall,
we have crauised this afternoon. And those signs I think
(03:40):
are obviously infuriating but also really really common. Yes, that's
something that you've encountered a bit in your time here.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yes, absolutely so, I think one of the things you know.
So in my newsletter, just to shamelessly plug myself, I
often find myself comparing British culture and French culture and
the things I really noticed. And one of the things
that is very very different here is that UK culture
is very rules based, kind of like the highest words
(04:10):
of praise in UK culture sort of fair, decent, hard working,
all these kind of worthy words, and you expect things
to sort of work a certain way, and that's seen
as good in and of itself, and in France and
in Paris in particular, it's just not like that things
are unpredictable, and so even though they have this kind
(04:31):
of very highly bureaucratized admin system, it's also quite unpredictable.
And I think that seeing these signs of accepts your
r mont Fermeier is really sort of indicative of that,
because whatever the rule is, whatever the opening hours are,
there can always be an exception. And I think in
the French language that word accepts you in dermal is
used to kind of always open the door to that
(04:54):
exception actually being quite normal. And then I was thinking
about this, and I was thinking that the kind of
converse of exception animal is because it's another false friends,
because in English when we say normally, we mean generally
that's how things happen, whereas in French means all being normal,
(05:15):
and it like leaves the door open for there to
be an exception.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
It's like a little asterisk that you put your sentence.
It's like, yeah, we'll be there at five, No, madam,
it's like you'll be there at five, like god willing.
Like it's almost like that sort of like very secular
guard willing.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
My yeah, yeah, exactly. There's always like a little.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Way out like should be Yeah, totally. And I think
you encountered an exception animal fair may sign recently at
the exception more change at the gym, right.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
This was this was the next level. Yeah, so it
wasn't it. It was an ex So okay, I'll just
set the scene. So I go to a gym. It's
like a local gym, nothing fun seed. It's got a
few different branches, but it's good, does the job. But
there's one particular branch first of all where and again
this is I feel like this is also just typical
(06:10):
things being slightly chaotic for no reason. In this gym,
the women's changing room is on the fourth floor, so
you have to walk four flights of stairs to get
them before you even start your workout. And the men's
changing room is on the first floor. So yeah, just
to be a picture. And when I asked them about that,
because there's actually an elevator, you can see it, and
I said, oh, does the elevator not work? And they
(06:31):
were like, oh no, Madam, just doesn't work. Hasn't worked
for seven years. So anyway, that's just saying so imagine
this is this is how things are normally right. And
then one day I arrived there, I walked the way
up to the fourth floor to the changing room, and
there was a sign on the women's changing room and
it said except your leman today, the men's and women's
(06:53):
changing rooms are interchanged because of a like technical etiven.
So I was like, they can't possibly mean that they've
swapped over the men's and women's changing rooms, Like that
just sounds like the setting for like a farce basically.
So I went all the way back down the four
flights upstairs and I said, sorry, what's going on? And
(07:16):
they said, yeah, today just accepts your nonm Today we've
swapped the men's and women's changing rooms, which you know,
is just it's as if this word accepts your normal.
It means, you know, you don't ask any more questions
like well, it's an exception. So that's how it is.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Wow, that's I mean, see, that's it's just so mind
bogglingly delightfully French. Yes, I love what you were saying
earlier about how often you know you're spending your time
comparing French culture and UK culture. And I spent a
lot of my time comparing French culture and American culture
and often find that, like the UK culture sits somewhere
(07:55):
in the middle. And so when you were saying UK
culture is very like adhering to the rules, French culture
breaks the rules. American culture breaks the rules too, but
in the opposite way. I feel like, you know, in
the UK, there's the rules, and here are the rules.
In France, here as the rules, and we might exceptionally
change them to your detriment, whereas in America I often
(08:15):
feel like like if you go into an administrative office right
and they're like, oh, this paperwork is late, but for you,
I'll like get it through, like you can get an
exceptional yes. Okay, kind of talked about on a previous
episode of the podcast. Anyone who's interested in hearing more
about the French no is like no is the way
that like it's often exceptionally no or exceptionally closed or
(08:38):
exceptionally deviating in a way that is less apt for you.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Do you get the sense that there's like a reason
why French exceptionalism is actually kind of negative as opposed
to this way you were describing exceptional in English as
being so over rightly positive.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I think it is linked to what you're saying about
the French no that, like no is always the first
answer before you get to the yes. So I think
in the administrative settings it's kind of like you do
get that person who says, except your enmarle, I'm going
to do this for you as a favor. However, like
I think from what you're saying, in American culture, they
(09:26):
would be saying I'm really doing you a favor, like
they're actually making your life easier, Whereas I feel like
when that's used in a French administrative setting, usually it's
just them doing what you came there for them to do.
And I think that comes to that kind of French
mentality of like people are very careful about I'm responsible
for this, and I'm liable for this, and in French
(09:48):
administration people stick to their lane and what they're responsible
for and are very careful not to over promise. But
I think it's somehow linked to that.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, And do you get the sense that, like when
you look sort of culturally why the French would be
less adherent to the rules, you know, coming from a
UK system where the rules are so important and where
people really like to follow the rules, stand in the queue, Like,
I mean, I'm being.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
A little stereotypical here, It's true, that's true.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Do you get the sense that there's a cultural reason
why or that sort of explains why the French would
deviate so often and so easily and lean into these
exceptions all the time, whereas maybe in the UK there
would be no exceptions to the rules.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah, I do. I mean, I think, you know, without
kind of going overly analytical, but I do think it's
linked deeply into the UK having this history of Protestant
culture kind of more Puritan culture, and France being from
a Catholic background, and I think it does create a
different attitude. So, you know, the sort of Protestant thinking
(10:52):
is like, work hard, do the right thing. Every single
day is a test of how good a person you are,
and you must turn up every day. And the French
attitude is I think it is more linked to that
kind of Catholic thing of like, you know, maybe you
can indulge in then to the pleasures of the flesh
and then repent at the end and it's all going
to be okay. So I think there's a bit of that.
(11:13):
And I also think, I mean, I just like we
think of the French Revolution as being such a long
time ago, but actually it wasn't that long ago. It
was about two hundred years ago, and then they kept
having revolutions all the way throughout the eighteen hundreds. So
I feel like I really enjoy comparing French and British
culture because they're quite that. We're neighbors geographically, we have
(11:34):
a lot of shared history, but at these certain points
we went in different directions, and so you know, where
they remain Catholic, we went Protestant, and where they had
a revolution, we kept our monarchy and basically were like, oh, well,
we kind of don't We don't really agree with the system,
but we'll kind of roll along with it and keep going.
And I think it's linked up in those kind of attitudes,
like the French from the revolution and from that being
(11:54):
validated the Revolution have much more of a sense of
the individual, and the will of the individual is more
important in some ways than the sort of collective I
don't know, the sense of sort of common good or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, And it's interesting too when you say that coming
from America, where I feel like we're very individualistic and
like the common good is like, I mean, I'm gonna say,
something is going to piss a lot of people off,
but that's okay. I feel like living in France for
as long as I have, I get the sense that
the common good does not occur to most Americans. On
the day to day, like we like pushing for big
(12:30):
societal change, but when it comes to things like like
I remember, I've told this story before, but I remember
riding on the bus where there was this like in France,
in Paris, and there was this woman on the phone
and she was talking really really loudly about her general plans,
and this older woman like we were all annoyed by it,
but this older woman like leaned in and was like, mademoiselle,
(12:50):
you live in a society.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
I just shut her up. And I was like, in
America that would have been like, I have my rights.
I have the right to talk on the phone as
loud as I want. And this older woman reminding this
younger woman that she lived in a society actually had an.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Effect on her.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
So I feel like, is this like there's an exceptionalism here,
But then there's also this like thought, it's a weird
sort of juxtaposition. I mean, I have my rights, but
also this sort of common the social contract.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I guess I think that kind of fits into it
as well, because I feel like French developing this idea further,
like comparing the UK in front. Everything here comes very
much down to sort of the human relational aspects. So
even that woman saying you live in society, she was saying, like,
here are we as other people. You're bothering us, and
that's enough reason to sort of stop doing what you're doing.
(13:43):
Whereas I feel like in the UK, it's like it's
less emotional, it's less like I'm doing this out of
my love for other people. It's more like this is
how things ought to be done in society. This is
the rule, and that's enough. And like I was just
thinking about, you know what you were saying about why
there's this attitude of more kind of accepted thenmore, and
like why is it kind of not just these rules,
(14:04):
but why is it more person to person? And like,
for example, I remember once speaking to a French friend
about how we were talking about. I had a doctor
in France, like a general practitioner who was quite flirtatious.
He was like a quite young, like attractive man, and
you know, I was late for my appointment and I said, oh,
I'm really sorry, I'm late, and he was like superb
(14:26):
yen mademoiselle, like, oh, it's not good. You're going to
have to be punished for this, and kind of was
like you being quite flirtatious. Wow for us also, I
mean side note, but doctors here self employed. Was in
the UK they're employed by the state. So for me
that was so shocking because you have this kind of
really solid boundary between you and your doctor and they
(14:47):
wouldn't behave like that in the UK. And I remember
talking to a French friend about it and he was like,
wee me. He was like, at the same time, you know,
he is a man, you are a woman. If their
bus is a feeling between you, what are you going
to do? You know, it's like, whatever the kind of
official setup is, this human thing can get between it
and that's acceptable. And I suppose I feel like that
(15:10):
even in administrative settings. It's like it's actually more important
the interaction you're having you and that person, So like
what the answer you get in an admin setting can
depend on their mood that day, if they like how
you talk to them, even how you're dressed or so,
it's like it's much more human to human and less
about these are the rules. I think that's where they
(15:32):
accept your thermal fits.
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Speaker 3 (16:10):
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I mean, I think that makes total sense. And I
think also it's another one of these sort of interesting
paradoxes of like French culture, that this is a country
with so many rules. Yes, like rules, the grammar rules,
(16:35):
as anybody who's learned French of the foreign language, are grueling.
There are rules governing where you're allowed to make champagne,
what you're allowed to call different cheeses, where you're allowed
to you know, park your car on which you know,
there's just rules all the time. And yet I've never
quite encountered a culture that so plays into the exception,
(16:55):
that proves the rule mindset.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
That's such a good point.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Like all the exceptions you learn about, like conjugating verbs,
you're like, this is how it works except for all
of these, and the list of exceptions is longer than
the list of regular conjugations, but everything is exceptional.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, So, I mean, I think that's really interesting when
you were you coming from a culture that has so
many rules and you guys actually follow them, whereas here
it's there's so so many rules, and part of me
is like, why do we even have these rules in
the first place if they're all there's exceptions to all
of them.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
But you're right, it's really like the language, isn't it.
And it's yeah, kind of overarching aim to uphold things
as they are and in this sort of excellent French way,
but there's always these little unexpected twists and turns and
ways around it. For example, okay, sorry, but during the
lockdown as well, I thought it was really marked as
well because we had one. Were you in France for
(17:51):
the lockdown? Yeah, yeah, yeah, So the conferment that we
had here, we had one of the strictest lockdowns in
the sense that you needed a little piece of paper
to leave your house and you have to sign it
a certain time Na and I thought that was interesting
because in the UK they just said the rules and
everyone flollowed them and there was no need to impose
a fine or a punishment because people just you know,
(18:13):
wouldn't do it. So we have these incredibly complicated rules.
But at the same time, the reason they were so
complicated was partly because people couldn't be trusted not to
keep them. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
But I mean I feel like there's so many unspoken
rules in French culture as well, in terms of just
like I've noticed people adhere really carefully to what time
they eat, like they don't eat at random times of day,
or like they you know, if you turn up at
somebody's house at like eleven forty five in the morning,
(18:45):
they're going to offer you a drink.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
There's all of these little like cultural rules that people
don't break, and then when there are these big rules,
like they're so willing to make exceptions to them.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Yeah, that's true, but I guess it's like what is
there in France. I feel like something being sort of
good or enjoyable or beautiful is kind of the highest
value that you can place on anything. So it's really
interesting that the rules you mention, a lot of them
are about like hospitality or food or like and even
like the AOP designations that you mentioned, like those, as
(19:20):
you say, those are so strict to say, like champagne
can only be produced here, or like compte can only
be produced here. It's like, what are we taking really
really seriously? Food pleasure?
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, food pleasure. And then also I feel
like a lot of the exceptions are down to like exceptionally,
like we're going to be doing this because it's a
beautiful day or because you know it's it's like you said,
it's it's in this mindset of enjoying life, I mean.
And even the rules to which we would hear the
(19:51):
most strictly are like, oh, we're closing in August, like
we have the Olympics coming to Paris this summer, or
depending on when we're listening to this, the Olympics will
have come to Paris this summer. It's a fun verb configuration.
But I've spoken with bakers who are like, oh, yeah,
I always take off in August, and I will be
taking off in August, and it's like, yeah, but you're
like you're in the heart of the Latin Quarter, like
(20:11):
you're gonna have so much business, and they're like, no,
I always take off in August. I'll be taking off
in August, like right, yeah, And that's the rule. That's
the rule that's important. There are no exceptions to that one.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And I was wondering too with the with this idea
of exception and them, and also with that idea of
no manamal which you dropped in as well. And I
think there'd be another super interesting word for us to
delve even deeper into on a future episode. But I
think this way the French sort of caveat their potential
adherents or breaking up the rules with these words. I
wonder how much that reflects the French comfort with unpredictability,
(20:50):
Like how that reflects the way that the French feel
about declaring something and then do they feel this need
to caveat it by saying, you know, are things being equal?
I mean, you hear a lot of French people borrowing
in Challas into French, like you hear that often so
it's the same mindset of like, let me put this
asterisk against what I've said, like because I might change
(21:14):
my mind, and I feel, as an American, the need
to caveat if I say like, oh yeah, I'll be
there Tuesday, and then I need to cancel, Like I
might feel guilty about it, but I feel like my
word is my bond and I have now broken my
bond with you know, things.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Happening but okay, I don't know. So in UK culture,
I wouldn't say people are more or less flaky. I
would say probably equally flaky. But the approach of how
we frame that flakiness is really different. So like, yeah,
I wouldn't say normal Mont. I'd be like, oh yeah,
I'll be there Tuesday. Great, maybe knowing full well that
(21:50):
I might have to drop out or you know, there's
going to be too many people at that party and
I don't want to go there or something like that.
But the difference is I feel that the normal moon
gives you this past that when it gets to Tuesday
morning you don't want to go anymore, you can just say, oh, phinnmon.
In the end, I can't come. You can say Jean
and prevu like something unexpected came up, Jian on peschement,
(22:13):
something preventing me from coming up all these words, which
again like except in normal, you don't need to qualify
with anything else. They just with that word you get
your free past. Whereas if you then wanted to drop
out of the event in the UK, you would then
have to come up with some very elaborate and pressing
reason why you can't be there, so like you'd be like,
(22:33):
I really wanted to come, but I mean basically, you know,
my my dog got sick and then I had to
do this last minute thing for work, and I've just
been so stressed and I'm just I'm really anxious. You know,
you go into this whole psychodrama, it's like why you
can't come, and that would justify it. And that's a.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Super good point because I feel like often in the States,
I feel pressure to talk about how I am bodily
unwell and that's why I can't come. Yeah, whether it's
true or not true, whether I've given myself a headache
because I don't want to come, or I actually already
had a pre existing headache, doesn't seem to matter. But
I need to make sure that other people know that
(23:10):
if my body were still functioning the way.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
That it should, I would be there. I feel like it's.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Very okay and almost more acceptable to not explain why
and just be like, like you said, arevous and ambishal
and like I have something else that's happening at the
same time, I don't need to tell you what it is,
but I won't be at your party. And maybe they're
actually maybe maybe they're more comfortable with not justifying the
(23:36):
reason why they're not doing the thing they said they
were going to do.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
I think it's also this is just something I thought
of now, But what you were saying about the French language,
it's a language that's really well suited to talking about
things in theory and not so much in the nitty
gritty practical elements of it. So maybe it's linked. It's
like these rather elegant words give you a sort of
way to just kind of brush over the facts of
(24:00):
the matter. So it's just like except you then more
in fact, especially in an administrative setting, and someone saying
except you then more, I'll do this or won't do this.
But it's quite hostile, it's quite mean what they're doing.
But something about this word. It kind of gives it
this little nice like linguistic gloss over it or something totally.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And it also means they don't have to explain themselves
to you, Like I remember once going into an office
to renew my social security in France and they were like, oh, yeah,
except you anamal, like our RI system isn't working, and
that was the full answer, Like it wasn't like but
you can come back on Tuesday, or but here's a
number that you can call. It was like an exceptions
(24:44):
back and then if you have the goal to say
anything like ahbah, like what can I do but the Madamo?
And then that's it.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
That's all like madame yep, we told you it's exceptional.
It's exceptional.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah, and it can be super frustrating. But I also
think that what you were saying about the sort of
elegance of the solution is really nice. Like I don't
like being put in a position where I feel like
I need to conjure some story or I read an
article really recently. I can't remember who wrote it, but
I'll try and take it down about in the UK,
how if you need to go to the bathroom you
(25:20):
have to be bursting for the loo.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Yeah, you can't just need to go.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
It's like it is beyond my capability to deal with this.
I must now leave or like you know, you're like
you're dying of a hangover, like like it has to
be an extreme, whereas in France it doesn't have to
be anything at all. It's just like an exception.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Yeah, like it's not possible for me. I think I
wrote something about that in my news note about being.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Oh then maybe it was you, Am I quoting you
back to yourself? Oh my god, I am the worst you.
It might be you.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
It's me. I'm that's that's great.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And I just feel like I walked into when Harry
met South and I quote your quote you back.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
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Speaker 3 (26:34):
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Speaker 4 (26:44):
I did say something about how like, yeah, you basically
to do anything in the UK, it has to be
like quick or it has to be a really pressing
reason why. So like if you need the toilet but
I'm desperate for the toilet, I'm sorry, I'm just going
to leave the conversation because I'm bursting for the toilet.
No one asked this is way too much information. You
can just need to go to the Twitter a normal
(27:05):
amount and they'll leave this conversation like it's fine, We're just.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Like I want to go stand over here for a second.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah. Yeah, it's so legitimate. Yeah, And I do think.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
There is there is that sort of like you don't
need to explain yourself to people in France, which is nice,
and maybe that exception end male sort of signals that
as well.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
The thing is, I feel like it's nice in an
interpersonal context, like I think it's really helpful little tool
to have and gives people a bit more breathing room.
But I suppose when you're then dealing with an official
administration and they're saying things like that to you, and
you need something out of them. It's a bit less fun. Yeah, yeah,
(27:45):
that's true.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
It is, but it does make for good stories and
it makes excellent bonding among expaths.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And to write about without without these incounties except you
then in counties and didn't I even we would and
to record a couple of weeks ago and I used
an accept normal to postpone. So look, I'm one of them. Now,
what can I say?
Speaker 3 (28:07):
I mean, I think that's true. That's a sign that
you've become truly French.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Where can people read your most recent work about French
culture and you know all of these interesting intricacies of
Franco British cultural differences.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
This is my website, Hannah Meltzer dot com, which links
to all the work I do. You can google my
substep newsletter. It's called pen Friend Hannah Meltzer pen Friend.
It will come up and then you'll get all my
fantastic anecdotes like these ones. And I also illustrate the
letters with my own drawings, so you get those as well.
(28:45):
And I'm on Instagram and voila. Yeah, we will.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Drop all of that into the show notes for anybody
who wants to keep abreast of what Hannah is working on,
and I highly recommend it. I think that I did
quote you back to yourself and so you do get
some great anecdotes and cultural commentary and illustrations and all
sorts of fantastic stuff. Thank you so much Hannah for
joining me on the podcast today. It has been super
fun and no Madmal we can come back and discuss
(29:14):
No Manmal, have.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
A great rest of your day YouTube. Thank you thanks
for having me.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
This has been Navigating the French. You can find more
from me Emily Monico at Emily Underscore in Underscore France,
on Twitter and Instagram. This podcast is produced by Paris
Underground Radio. To listen to other episodes of this podcast,
or to discover more podcasts like it, please visit Paris
Underground Radio dot com. Thanks for listening and abent.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
This episode of Navigating the French was produced by Jennifer
Garrity for Paris Underground Radio. For more great content, join
us on Patreon at Patreon dot com slash Paris Underground
Radio
You're listening to Navigating the French on Paris Underground Radio.
For more great content and a bonus episode of Navigating
the French, please join us on Patreon.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello and welcome to Navigating French, the podcast where each
episode we take a look at a French word and
try and see what it tells us about French culture.
I'm your host, Emily Monica. Today I'm joined by Hannah Meltzer,
a journalist and writer whose work often focuses on the
cultural differences between her native London and adopted France. She's
here to explore a word that doesn't have nearly the
(00:36):
same positive connotations in French as it does in English
and gives us a hint at the differences between the
way we consider rules and norms in France and the UK.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Excepttion Nemo. I'm so excited to welcome Hannah Meltzer to
the podcast. Hannah, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Such pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So, Hannah, tell us a little bit of about who
you are and what you are doing here in France.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
So I am a writer and journalist. I'm originally from
London in the UK. I grew up there and I
studied French at university, which is where my love of
France came from. And I moved over here seven years ago,
partially after the UK voted to leave the European Union,
which was a fun year. Yeah, and I've been I'm
(01:25):
a journalist and I write for the Telegraph as a
specialist on Paris and French culture, and a little bit
for The Times. And I also have my own newsletter
called pen Friend that I send every week, which.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I highly recommend and is how I discovered Hannah's amazing
insights into French culture. So we'll be sure and drop
a link to that and as well as to her
other journalism in the show notes, so you can stay
abreast of what Hannah's up to. But she is here today.
You're here today to chat with me about one of
my absolute favorite French words, which is except to thenmont,
(01:58):
which looks like it should mean exceptionally and kind of does.
But when we say exceptional in English and accepts you
there in French, we mean two pretty different things. So
how would you, sort of, first off, just from a
definition perspective, draw the line between those two words.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah, I think in English the word exceptional it's got
a mostly positive connotation, and actually it's quite an exceptionally
positive word. It's a really really high praise. If you
call someone exceptional, I would say for most of the time,
or something food or a person or a place, and
there is that meaning to it. In French, it can
(02:39):
mean something that's you know, it's singular. But it can
also mean something that is a one off. And that's
how I think most of us living here in France.
Here it used more commonly, so in its adjective form
or in its adverb form even more so so excepts
you nel mont means something is an exception, it's a
one off. We hear that used in quite interesting ways
(03:02):
here in France. I'm sure you've experienced that as well.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, that's That's always been my joke, is that I've
been here for seventeen years, and I always say that
if I ever write a memoir of my life in France,
which there are enough memoirs about.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
People's lives, you want it. We wanted it.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I mean, if I was to put my own voice
into the Mali, I would call my memoir exception at
mal famee, because I feel like I am doted with
like a unique curse that every time I show up
some sort of office that's typically opened on Tuesday from
ten to noon and then from one to five, I'll
show up at three and they're like, ah, but exception ed, mall,
we have crauised this afternoon. And those signs I think
(03:40):
are obviously infuriating but also really really common. Yes, that's
something that you've encountered a bit in your time here.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yes, absolutely so, I think one of the things you know.
So in my newsletter, just to shamelessly plug myself, I
often find myself comparing British culture and French culture and
the things I really noticed. And one of the things
that is very very different here is that UK culture
is very rules based, kind of like the highest words
(04:10):
of praise in UK culture sort of fair, decent, hard working,
all these kind of worthy words, and you expect things
to sort of work a certain way, and that's seen
as good in and of itself, and in France and
in Paris in particular, it's just not like that things
are unpredictable, and so even though they have this kind
(04:31):
of very highly bureaucratized admin system, it's also quite unpredictable.
And I think that seeing these signs of accepts your
r mont Fermeier is really sort of indicative of that,
because whatever the rule is, whatever the opening hours are,
there can always be an exception. And I think in
the French language that word accepts you in dermal is
used to kind of always open the door to that
(04:54):
exception actually being quite normal. And then I was thinking
about this, and I was thinking that the kind of
converse of exception animal is because it's another false friends,
because in English when we say normally, we mean generally
that's how things happen, whereas in French means all being normal,
(05:15):
and it like leaves the door open for there to
be an exception.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
It's like a little asterisk that you put your sentence.
It's like, yeah, we'll be there at five, No, madam,
it's like you'll be there at five, like god willing.
Like it's almost like that sort of like very secular
guard willing.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
My yeah, yeah, exactly. There's always like a little.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Way out like should be Yeah, totally. And I think
you encountered an exception animal fair may sign recently at
the exception more change at the gym, right.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
This was this was the next level. Yeah, so it
wasn't it. It was an ex So okay, I'll just
set the scene. So I go to a gym. It's
like a local gym, nothing fun seed. It's got a
few different branches, but it's good, does the job. But
there's one particular branch first of all where and again
this is I feel like this is also just typical
(06:10):
things being slightly chaotic for no reason. In this gym,
the women's changing room is on the fourth floor, so
you have to walk four flights of stairs to get
them before you even start your workout. And the men's
changing room is on the first floor. So yeah, just
to be a picture. And when I asked them about that,
because there's actually an elevator, you can see it, and
I said, oh, does the elevator not work? And they
(06:31):
were like, oh no, Madam, just doesn't work. Hasn't worked
for seven years. So anyway, that's just saying so imagine
this is this is how things are normally right. And
then one day I arrived there, I walked the way
up to the fourth floor to the changing room, and
there was a sign on the women's changing room and
it said except your leman today, the men's and women's
(06:53):
changing rooms are interchanged because of a like technical etiven.
So I was like, they can't possibly mean that they've
swapped over the men's and women's changing rooms, Like that
just sounds like the setting for like a farce basically.
So I went all the way back down the four
flights upstairs and I said, sorry, what's going on? And
(07:16):
they said, yeah, today just accepts your nonm Today we've
swapped the men's and women's changing rooms, which you know,
is just it's as if this word accepts your normal.
It means, you know, you don't ask any more questions
like well, it's an exception. So that's how it is.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Wow, that's I mean, see, that's it's just so mind
bogglingly delightfully French. Yes, I love what you were saying
earlier about how often you know you're spending your time
comparing French culture and UK culture. And I spent a
lot of my time comparing French culture and American culture
and often find that, like the UK culture sits somewhere
(07:55):
in the middle. And so when you were saying UK
culture is very like adhering to the rules, French culture
breaks the rules. American culture breaks the rules too, but
in the opposite way. I feel like, you know, in
the UK, there's the rules, and here are the rules.
In France, here as the rules, and we might exceptionally
change them to your detriment, whereas in America I often
(08:15):
feel like like if you go into an administrative office right
and they're like, oh, this paperwork is late, but for you,
I'll like get it through, like you can get an
exceptional yes. Okay, kind of talked about on a previous
episode of the podcast. Anyone who's interested in hearing more
about the French no is like no is the way
that like it's often exceptionally no or exceptionally closed or
(08:38):
exceptionally deviating in a way that is less apt for you.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Do you get the sense that there's like a reason
why French exceptionalism is actually kind of negative as opposed
to this way you were describing exceptional in English as
being so over rightly positive.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I think it is linked to what you're saying about
the French no that, like no is always the first
answer before you get to the yes. So I think
in the administrative settings it's kind of like you do
get that person who says, except your enmarle, I'm going
to do this for you as a favor. However, like
I think from what you're saying, in American culture, they
(09:26):
would be saying I'm really doing you a favor, like
they're actually making your life easier, Whereas I feel like
when that's used in a French administrative setting, usually it's
just them doing what you came there for them to do.
And I think that comes to that kind of French
mentality of like people are very careful about I'm responsible
for this, and I'm liable for this, and in French
(09:48):
administration people stick to their lane and what they're responsible
for and are very careful not to over promise. But
I think it's somehow linked to that.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, And do you get the sense that, like when
you look sort of culturally why the French would be
less adherent to the rules, you know, coming from a
UK system where the rules are so important and where
people really like to follow the rules, stand in the queue, Like,
I mean, I'm being.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
A little stereotypical here, It's true, that's true.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Do you get the sense that there's a cultural reason
why or that sort of explains why the French would
deviate so often and so easily and lean into these
exceptions all the time, whereas maybe in the UK there
would be no exceptions to the rules.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah, I do. I mean, I think, you know, without
kind of going overly analytical, but I do think it's
linked deeply into the UK having this history of Protestant
culture kind of more Puritan culture, and France being from
a Catholic background, and I think it does create a
different attitude. So, you know, the sort of Protestant thinking
(10:52):
is like, work hard, do the right thing. Every single
day is a test of how good a person you are,
and you must turn up every day. And the French
attitude is I think it is more linked to that
kind of Catholic thing of like, you know, maybe you
can indulge in then to the pleasures of the flesh
and then repent at the end and it's all going
to be okay. So I think there's a bit of that.
(11:13):
And I also think, I mean, I just like we
think of the French Revolution as being such a long
time ago, but actually it wasn't that long ago. It
was about two hundred years ago, and then they kept
having revolutions all the way throughout the eighteen hundreds. So
I feel like I really enjoy comparing French and British
culture because they're quite that. We're neighbors geographically, we have
(11:34):
a lot of shared history, but at these certain points
we went in different directions, and so you know, where
they remain Catholic, we went Protestant, and where they had
a revolution, we kept our monarchy and basically were like, oh, well,
we kind of don't We don't really agree with the system,
but we'll kind of roll along with it and keep going.
And I think it's linked up in those kind of attitudes,
like the French from the revolution and from that being
(11:54):
validated the Revolution have much more of a sense of
the individual, and the will of the individual is more
important in some ways than the sort of collective I
don't know, the sense of sort of common good or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, And it's interesting too when you say that coming
from America, where I feel like we're very individualistic and
like the common good is like, I mean, I'm gonna say,
something is going to piss a lot of people off,
but that's okay. I feel like living in France for
as long as I have, I get the sense that
the common good does not occur to most Americans. On
the day to day, like we like pushing for big
(12:30):
societal change, but when it comes to things like like
I remember, I've told this story before, but I remember
riding on the bus where there was this like in France,
in Paris, and there was this woman on the phone
and she was talking really really loudly about her general plans,
and this older woman like we were all annoyed by it,
but this older woman like leaned in and was like, mademoiselle,
(12:50):
you live in a society.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
I just shut her up. And I was like, in
America that would have been like, I have my rights.
I have the right to talk on the phone as
loud as I want. And this older woman reminding this
younger woman that she lived in a society actually had an.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Effect on her.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
So I feel like, is this like there's an exceptionalism here,
But then there's also this like thought, it's a weird
sort of juxtaposition. I mean, I have my rights, but
also this sort of common the social contract.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I guess I think that kind of fits into it
as well, because I feel like French developing this idea further,
like comparing the UK in front. Everything here comes very
much down to sort of the human relational aspects. So
even that woman saying you live in society, she was saying, like,
here are we as other people. You're bothering us, and
that's enough reason to sort of stop doing what you're doing.
(13:43):
Whereas I feel like in the UK, it's like it's
less emotional, it's less like I'm doing this out of
my love for other people. It's more like this is
how things ought to be done in society. This is
the rule, and that's enough. And like I was just
thinking about, you know what you were saying about why
there's this attitude of more kind of accepted thenmore, and
like why is it kind of not just these rules,
(14:04):
but why is it more person to person? And like,
for example, I remember once speaking to a French friend
about how we were talking about. I had a doctor
in France, like a general practitioner who was quite flirtatious.
He was like a quite young, like attractive man, and
you know, I was late for my appointment and I said, oh,
I'm really sorry, I'm late, and he was like superb
(14:26):
yen mademoiselle, like, oh, it's not good. You're going to
have to be punished for this, and kind of was
like you being quite flirtatious. Wow for us also, I
mean side note, but doctors here self employed. Was in
the UK they're employed by the state. So for me
that was so shocking because you have this kind of
really solid boundary between you and your doctor and they
(14:47):
wouldn't behave like that in the UK. And I remember
talking to a French friend about it and he was like,
wee me. He was like, at the same time, you know,
he is a man, you are a woman. If their
bus is a feeling between you, what are you going
to do? You know, it's like, whatever the kind of
official setup is, this human thing can get between it
and that's acceptable. And I suppose I feel like that
(15:10):
even in administrative settings. It's like it's actually more important
the interaction you're having you and that person, So like
what the answer you get in an admin setting can
depend on their mood that day, if they like how
you talk to them, even how you're dressed or so,
it's like it's much more human to human and less
about these are the rules. I think that's where they
(15:32):
accept your thermal fits.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
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Speaker 3 (16:10):
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I mean, I think that makes total sense. And I
think also it's another one of these sort of interesting
paradoxes of like French culture, that this is a country
with so many rules. Yes, like rules, the grammar rules,
(16:35):
as anybody who's learned French of the foreign language, are grueling.
There are rules governing where you're allowed to make champagne,
what you're allowed to call different cheeses, where you're allowed
to you know, park your car on which you know,
there's just rules all the time. And yet I've never
quite encountered a culture that so plays into the exception,
(16:55):
that proves the rule mindset.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
That's such a good point.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Like all the exceptions you learn about, like conjugating verbs,
you're like, this is how it works except for all
of these, and the list of exceptions is longer than
the list of regular conjugations, but everything is exceptional.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, So, I mean, I think that's really interesting when
you were you coming from a culture that has so
many rules and you guys actually follow them, whereas here
it's there's so so many rules, and part of me
is like, why do we even have these rules in
the first place if they're all there's exceptions to all
of them.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
But you're right, it's really like the language, isn't it.
And it's yeah, kind of overarching aim to uphold things
as they are and in this sort of excellent French way,
but there's always these little unexpected twists and turns and
ways around it. For example, okay, sorry, but during the
lockdown as well, I thought it was really marked as
well because we had one. Were you in France for
(17:51):
the lockdown? Yeah, yeah, yeah, So the conferment that we
had here, we had one of the strictest lockdowns in
the sense that you needed a little piece of paper
to leave your house and you have to sign it
a certain time Na and I thought that was interesting
because in the UK they just said the rules and
everyone flollowed them and there was no need to impose
a fine or a punishment because people just you know,
(18:13):
wouldn't do it. So we have these incredibly complicated rules.
But at the same time, the reason they were so
complicated was partly because people couldn't be trusted not to
keep them. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
But I mean I feel like there's so many unspoken
rules in French culture as well, in terms of just
like I've noticed people adhere really carefully to what time
they eat, like they don't eat at random times of day,
or like they you know, if you turn up at
somebody's house at like eleven forty five in the morning,
(18:45):
they're going to offer you a drink.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
There's all of these little like cultural rules that people
don't break, and then when there are these big rules,
like they're so willing to make exceptions to them.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Yeah, that's true, but I guess it's like what is
there in France. I feel like something being sort of
good or enjoyable or beautiful is kind of the highest
value that you can place on anything. So it's really
interesting that the rules you mention, a lot of them
are about like hospitality or food or like and even
like the AOP designations that you mentioned, like those, as
(19:20):
you say, those are so strict to say, like champagne
can only be produced here, or like compte can only
be produced here. It's like, what are we taking really
really seriously? Food pleasure?
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, food pleasure. And then also I feel
like a lot of the exceptions are down to like exceptionally,
like we're going to be doing this because it's a
beautiful day or because you know it's it's like you said,
it's it's in this mindset of enjoying life, I mean.
And even the rules to which we would hear the
(19:51):
most strictly are like, oh, we're closing in August, like
we have the Olympics coming to Paris this summer, or
depending on when we're listening to this, the Olympics will
have come to Paris this summer. It's a fun verb configuration.
But I've spoken with bakers who are like, oh, yeah,
I always take off in August, and I will be
taking off in August, and it's like, yeah, but you're
like you're in the heart of the Latin Quarter, like
(20:11):
you're gonna have so much business, and they're like, no,
I always take off in August. I'll be taking off
in August, like right, yeah, And that's the rule. That's
the rule that's important. There are no exceptions to that one.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And I was wondering too with the with this idea
of exception and them, and also with that idea of
no manamal which you dropped in as well. And I
think there'd be another super interesting word for us to
delve even deeper into on a future episode. But I
think this way the French sort of caveat their potential
adherents or breaking up the rules with these words. I
wonder how much that reflects the French comfort with unpredictability,
(20:50):
Like how that reflects the way that the French feel
about declaring something and then do they feel this need
to caveat it by saying, you know, are things being equal?
I mean, you hear a lot of French people borrowing
in Challas into French, like you hear that often so
it's the same mindset of like, let me put this
asterisk against what I've said, like because I might change
(21:14):
my mind, and I feel, as an American, the need
to caveat if I say like, oh yeah, I'll be
there Tuesday, and then I need to cancel, Like I
might feel guilty about it, but I feel like my
word is my bond and I have now broken my
bond with you know, things.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Happening but okay, I don't know. So in UK culture,
I wouldn't say people are more or less flaky. I
would say probably equally flaky. But the approach of how
we frame that flakiness is really different. So like, yeah,
I wouldn't say normal Mont. I'd be like, oh yeah,
I'll be there Tuesday. Great, maybe knowing full well that
(21:50):
I might have to drop out or you know, there's
going to be too many people at that party and
I don't want to go there or something like that.
But the difference is I feel that the normal moon
gives you this past that when it gets to Tuesday
morning you don't want to go anymore, you can just say, oh, phinnmon.
In the end, I can't come. You can say Jean
and prevu like something unexpected came up, Jian on peschement,
(22:13):
something preventing me from coming up all these words, which
again like except in normal, you don't need to qualify
with anything else. They just with that word you get
your free past. Whereas if you then wanted to drop
out of the event in the UK, you would then
have to come up with some very elaborate and pressing
reason why you can't be there, so like you'd be like,
(22:33):
I really wanted to come, but I mean basically, you know,
my my dog got sick and then I had to
do this last minute thing for work, and I've just
been so stressed and I'm just I'm really anxious. You know,
you go into this whole psychodrama, it's like why you
can't come, and that would justify it. And that's a.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Super good point because I feel like often in the States,
I feel pressure to talk about how I am bodily
unwell and that's why I can't come. Yeah, whether it's
true or not true, whether I've given myself a headache
because I don't want to come, or I actually already
had a pre existing headache, doesn't seem to matter. But
I need to make sure that other people know that
(23:10):
if my body were still functioning the way.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
That it should, I would be there. I feel like it's.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Very okay and almost more acceptable to not explain why
and just be like, like you said, arevous and ambishal
and like I have something else that's happening at the
same time, I don't need to tell you what it is,
but I won't be at your party. And maybe they're
actually maybe maybe they're more comfortable with not justifying the
(23:36):
reason why they're not doing the thing they said they
were going to do.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
I think it's also this is just something I thought
of now, But what you were saying about the French language,
it's a language that's really well suited to talking about
things in theory and not so much in the nitty
gritty practical elements of it. So maybe it's linked. It's
like these rather elegant words give you a sort of
way to just kind of brush over the facts of
(24:00):
the matter. So it's just like except you then more
in fact, especially in an administrative setting, and someone saying
except you then more, I'll do this or won't do this.
But it's quite hostile, it's quite mean what they're doing.
But something about this word. It kind of gives it
this little nice like linguistic gloss over it or something totally.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
And it also means they don't have to explain themselves
to you, Like I remember once going into an office
to renew my social security in France and they were like, oh, yeah,
except you anamal, like our RI system isn't working, and
that was the full answer, Like it wasn't like but
you can come back on Tuesday, or but here's a
number that you can call. It was like an exceptions
(24:44):
back and then if you have the goal to say
anything like ahbah, like what can I do but the Madamo?
And then that's it.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
That's all like madame yep, we told you it's exceptional.
It's exceptional.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah, and it can be super frustrating. But I also
think that what you were saying about the sort of
elegance of the solution is really nice. Like I don't
like being put in a position where I feel like
I need to conjure some story or I read an
article really recently. I can't remember who wrote it, but
I'll try and take it down about in the UK,
how if you need to go to the bathroom you
(25:20):
have to be bursting for the loo.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
Yeah, you can't just need to go.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
It's like it is beyond my capability to deal with this.
I must now leave or like you know, you're like
you're dying of a hangover, like like it has to
be an extreme, whereas in France it doesn't have to
be anything at all. It's just like an exception.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Yeah, like it's not possible for me. I think I
wrote something about that in my news note about being.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Oh then maybe it was you, Am I quoting you
back to yourself? Oh my god, I am the worst you.
It might be you.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
It's me. I'm that's that's great.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And I just feel like I walked into when Harry
met South and I quote your quote you back.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
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(26:26):
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Speaker 3 (26:34):
Radio Navigating of the French will be right back after
award from our sponsors, and now back to Navigating the French.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I did say something about how like, yeah, you basically
to do anything in the UK, it has to be
like quick or it has to be a really pressing
reason why. So like if you need the toilet but
I'm desperate for the toilet, I'm sorry, I'm just going
to leave the conversation because I'm bursting for the toilet.
No one asked this is way too much information. You
can just need to go to the Twitter a normal
(27:05):
amount and they'll leave this conversation like it's fine, We're just.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Like I want to go stand over here for a second.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah. Yeah, it's so legitimate. Yeah, And I do think.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
There is there is that sort of like you don't
need to explain yourself to people in France, which is nice,
and maybe that exception end male sort of signals that
as well.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
The thing is, I feel like it's nice in an
interpersonal context, like I think it's really helpful little tool
to have and gives people a bit more breathing room.
But I suppose when you're then dealing with an official
administration and they're saying things like that to you, and
you need something out of them. It's a bit less fun. Yeah, yeah,
(27:45):
that's true.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
It is, but it does make for good stories and
it makes excellent bonding among expaths.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And to write about without without these incounties except you
then in counties and didn't I even we would and
to record a couple of weeks ago and I used
an accept normal to postpone. So look, I'm one of them. Now,
what can I say?
Speaker 3 (28:07):
I mean, I think that's true. That's a sign that
you've become truly French.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Where can people read your most recent work about French
culture and you know all of these interesting intricacies of
Franco British cultural differences.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
This is my website, Hannah Meltzer dot com, which links
to all the work I do. You can google my
substep newsletter. It's called pen Friend Hannah Meltzer pen Friend.
It will come up and then you'll get all my
fantastic anecdotes like these ones. And I also illustrate the
letters with my own drawings, so you get those as well.
(28:45):
And I'm on Instagram and voila. Yeah, we will.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Drop all of that into the show notes for anybody
who wants to keep abreast of what Hannah is working on,
and I highly recommend it. I think that I did
quote you back to yourself and so you do get
some great anecdotes and cultural commentary and illustrations and all
sorts of fantastic stuff. Thank you so much Hannah for
joining me on the podcast today. It has been super
fun and no Madmal we can come back and discuss
(29:14):
No Manmal, have.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
A great rest of your day YouTube. Thank you thanks
for having me.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
This has been Navigating the French. You can find more
from me Emily Monico at Emily Underscore in Underscore France,
on Twitter and Instagram. This podcast is produced by Paris
Underground Radio. To listen to other episodes of this podcast,
or to discover more podcasts like it, please visit Paris
Underground Radio dot com. Thanks for listening and abent.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
This episode of Navigating the French was produced by Jennifer
Garrity for Paris Underground Radio. For more great content, join
us on Patreon at Patreon dot com slash Paris Underground
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