November 17, 2024 • 30 mins
American enthusiasm makes the French roll their eyes, but the French aren’t exactly as pessimistic as they may seem. To get to the bottom of this cultural misunderstanding, Emily is joined by Véronique Savoye, a jack-of-all-trades who’s made France her career, to help navigate râler.
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Credits
Host: Emily Monaco. @Emily_in_France; Website: http://www.tomatokumato.com and http://www.emilymmonaco.com
Producer: Jennifer Geraghty. @jennyphoria; Website: http://jennyphoria.com
Music Credits
Édith Piaf - La Vie en Rose (DeliFB Lofi Remix)
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About Us
From one Emily in Paris to another... just speaking French isn't enough to understand the intricacies of the locals, but it's definitely a good place to start. Famously defended by armed "immortals" of the Académie Française (no, we're not making this up) the French language is filled with clues that show interested outsiders what, exactly, makes the French tick.
Each episode, listen in as Emily Monaco and an expert take a deep dive into a word that helps us gain a keener understanding of the French.
https://francewithvero.com/
https://francewithvero.substack.com
Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/parisundergroundradio
Find Us Online
Website: https://www.parisundergroundradio.com/navigatingthefrench
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/parisundergroundradio
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parisundergroundradio/
Credits
Host: Emily Monaco. @Emily_in_France; Website: http://www.tomatokumato.com and http://www.emilymmonaco.com
Producer: Jennifer Geraghty. @jennyphoria; Website: http://jennyphoria.com
Music Credits
Édith Piaf - La Vie en Rose (DeliFB Lofi Remix)
🎵 MSKD Sounds: https://www.instagram.com/mskd_sounds/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRql... https://soundcloud.com/mskd_sounds
🎵 DeliFB: https://www.youtube.com/c/DeliFB https://soundcloud.com/delifb https://www.instagram.com/cativo.kevin/ https://twitter.com/DeliciousFB
About Us
From one Emily in Paris to another... just speaking French isn't enough to understand the intricacies of the locals, but it's definitely a good place to start. Famously defended by armed "immortals" of the Académie Française (no, we're not making this up) the French language is filled with clues that show interested outsiders what, exactly, makes the French tick.
Each episode, listen in as Emily Monaco and an expert take a deep dive into a word that helps us gain a keener understanding of the French.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Navigating the French on Paris Underground Radio.
For more great content and a bonus episode of Navigating
the French, please join us on Patreon.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello and welcome to Navigating French, the podcast where each
episode we take a look at a French word and
try and see what it tells us about French culture.
I'm your host, Emily Monaco. This week, I'm joined by
Veronique Savois, a jack of all trades who's made France
her career. She's here to explore a word that explains
the reasons why American enthusiasm makes the French roll their
(00:36):
eyes and while what might seem like pessimism is a
lot more complex. Raali what welcome Veronique to the podcast.
I am so excited to have you with me today.
Could you just introduce yourself to our listeners and tell
us a little bit about who you are and what
you do here in France.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
And thank you for having me. I'm excited to be
here too, because I listen to your podcast and I've
enjoyed the past episode. My name is ver Nique, and
I am a French native who lived in the United
States for a long time. For over two decades and
finally relocated back to France in twenty nineteen. And to
make a long story short, that say, I am an
(01:20):
adult educator turned tour guide, so I switch hats throughout
the year. I am a tour guide, I am an
adult educator. I teach online French classes in the fall
and winter. The rest of the time, I continue teaching
about France in many different ways, including writing on substack.
I think that's the best way to summarize. France is
(01:40):
my passion. France is my business, and that's what I
share in many different ways.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And we're so honored that you're here to teach us
a little bit more about some little intricacies of French culture.
And the thing that we're going to talk about today
is actually one of my favorite words in French.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's this word halle. Halley is so hard.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
To translate, don't you think, like into English, it's really
hard to convey what halle means. How would you translate
it if you were going to try?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, it's it's it's very French, Hali. I think the
French are somewhat proud to have invented almost the concept
on hallo hallo HALLI I think there are lots of
possible translations for this. You can say to rouse, to complain,
to be a gram Timoan. I look them up actually,
to bitch, to twitch, to protest, to grumble, to whine,
(02:34):
and the list goes on. So you do have them
in English also, which is interesting. We do.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
We have some sort of translation, but you're right, it's
something that's so French, like, we can translate it a
little bit, but it doesn't mean we know how to
do it. The French are so elegant with the way
that they that they hall. I mean when you listed
all of those translations, I was trying to think, because
halle I think of is it's it's it's a form
of complaining, but it's not just to complain. There's a
(03:02):
lot more going on there. And I was thinking about, okay,
all these different words we have in French for complaining,
because we have halle, but then we also have puspetti,
and we have supplant, and we have party plants, and
they all they aren't synonyms. They all mean different ways
of saying something's wrong.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
There's nuance there, that's true.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So I guess you know, Soupplan feels like the best
true translation for just to complain.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, soupplant. The French love to Yeah, they they grouse,
they complain about things they do. So I think it's
a national trade that's almost been turned into a stereotype.
Actually not almost. It's a national trade that's been turned
into a stereotype. And interestingly, I think it's a stereotype
that the French embrace, which is very interesting because they
(03:55):
don't embrace all the stereotypes about fronts. They might even
feel offended some of them, but this is a stereotype.
Well they'll first say no, and then they'll say yeah,
I guess so. So it's very interesting it is.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
But I think what's interesting about it too is that
when we hear a French person ali ing, ali ing.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
We just made up a word. Why not?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
The neologism?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I think for especially for Americans, maybe less so for Brits,
but especially for Americans, it can sound so negative. You know,
you get a French person and like, literally right before
we started this recording, I was saying to you, oh man,
I'm going on all these trips and I have no
time to do my laundry. Like focus, I say, we
(04:45):
I've been here for seventeen years. I'm definitely not one
hundred percent French yet, but I feel like there are
bits of my personality that definitely absorbs some Frenchness. And
it's this desire to focus, even when you're saying something great,
and when you're saying, oh, I went to this Michelin
star rest at the other night and we spent five
hundred euros and this thing I've been looking forward to,
(05:06):
and can you believe my napkin had a thread loose
on it and I just hoped it the loose thread
all night. And you're like, okay, but how is the food?
You know, you focus on that little, that little negative detail.
But what I think is interesting is that a lot
of French people don't actually seem to feel like they're
complaining about something.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
No, that's true. I think it's part of the communication process.
It's part of the way we express ourselves. And for us,
it's not a problem because everybody does it. And for me,
it was really interesting to be an expot or an immigrant,
if you want to call it that. I lived in
the US for twenty three years and to follow some
groups on Facebook, you know, French expats in the United
(05:47):
States as I do now follow American groups since I'm
a binational, follow American groups in France, and it would
be fun when somebody would start complaining, a French person
would start complaining about something, as expats have been known
to do, not just the French in Facebook groups, and
immediately some French people would jump in and say, oh no,
I mean we left that behind, we left France behind.
(06:10):
We're not going to complain. We're not going to holly
here too. But of course they did, and they did.
You know, you could see the messages and the responses
and everything. I think you just can't help it. I
think it's part of who you are.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, and that was interesting, It's super interesting. And obviously
I think any ex pat abroad is going to focus
on the things that they miss, right, like you know,
you join I'm sure the American expac groups and people
are gonna be like the Oreos don't taste the same here,
or you know, there's.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
No Mexican food and I don't understand, and they don't
have washers and the air conditioning is never cold enough.
I could write a book on that. Actually, it would
be fun to write a book on both sides. It
would be.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
And there's so much of this sort of like noticing
the negative. But when I think about the way that
the French hal it often feels conversational, like it's not
as though they actually I think the difference that I've noticed, Right,
if you complain to your American friends, they're like, great,
let's find a solution, You're like, oh my god, I'm
(07:11):
so tired at work and my boss doesn't listen to me.
I don't know what to do. It's like, all right,
let's brainstorm. How are we going to fix this? And
I feel like if a French person is halling like
they don't want help, they aren't trying to fix it.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
No, it's I think in one way, it's a way
to vent and they need you to just listen at
that point. They don't need you to find a solution,
though I too would try and find a solution after
a while. Especially that person is going on and on forever.
I think they it's almost an act. It's almost a performance.
It's almost Sarah Bernhardt on a stage, Ladyvine going on
(07:46):
and on and on about something. It's part of the
national identity and for a lot of French people, Halle,
which is a negative way of saying it is. Also
the positive spin on it would be to say it's
a sign of intelligence. It's a sign of the fact
that you analyze situations. You don't buy everything. Just like that,
(08:07):
you're going to analyze situations and if something's wrong, you're
going to talk about it and you're going to face
it and address it. So for them it's not a
negative thing. I think that's where it comes from. Really,
it's not a problem.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And I think that's perhaps the most important thing that
gets lost in translation with this is when somebody who's
not from France, here's the French complaining, there's always this
assumption that, oh, nothing can ever be good enough. But
actually it's not that. It's what you said. It's this
analytical sort of intellectualizing of the space around you. And
I think one way that we see it perhaps most
(08:43):
clearly is if we draw a distinction between that and
the sort of overwrought positivity of Americans. Because Americans in France,
if anybody is making fun of an American in French,
they go, oh.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Say amazing, amaz.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Because we think everything's amazing. How do the French feel
about that when there's Americans proclaiming that everything is amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I think, on the one hand, there's a positive reaction
to the positivity, to the enthusiasm and the can do
attitude that a lot of Americans show. So that's the
positive thing. At the same time, people will be prone
to say it's not real, it's fake. Nobody can be
that happy, that enthusiastic, that positive all the time, and
(09:32):
so I think there's both right. So you can be
enthusiastic in France, it's perfectly fine, but you always have
to add a little nuance of maybe pointing out something
that's not quite so perfect. That's what I would do
if I talk to French people. I would talk to
French people very differently from the way I explain something
to my American friends. There are just two ways to
(09:52):
communicate the same piece of news for me, whether I'm
talking to a group of French people and a group
of Americans. For sure, you need to just adapt the
way you explain it. You know, I wouldn't brag. I
wouldn't say it's all great, it was great, it was great,
you know, to a group of French people, I would
say that, but then they would start looking at me funny.
(10:13):
After a while, and I would feel almost compelled to
add a detail to prove that something either was a
challenge or didn't go as planned. You know. That would
be my way of the nuance, of introducing the nuance.
And that's probably the thing they were just chew on.
Oh what happened? Why not? And this is the thing
they're interested in. With my American friends that just said
(10:34):
it was great, was wonderful when it's planned. You know,
we could have done so much more, but we didn't.
We had a very different way of communicating. But I
think you probably do the same since you've lived in
France for seventeen years. You do adjust or adapt, I
would say, more adapt to the person you're talking to,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh definitely. But I wonder now thinking about it, like
why do I do that? What am I afraid that?
If I'm really positive and I say, oh, I just
did this thing and it was great, what am I
afraid my French friends going to think? And on the
flip side, if I say to an American like, oh, yeah,
like it was pretty good, but you know, my train
(11:12):
was late and then it rained, and so like that
part wasn't great, but everything else was good. Like, why
am I afraid of showing the true nuance to my
American friends? And why am I afraid of being too
overwrought with my positivity with my French friends. Do you
have like an instinct as to why that would be.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
With a French person or with a group of French people.
I don't think that Positivit can turn very quickly into bragging,
you know, talking about a great trip you just had
and going on and on and on about that. And
you know, you know as well as I do that
in France, bragging, showing off what you have, maybe material things,
(11:50):
status symbols. It can go very far. Is not okay,
It's not something that in society is very well accepted.
You will be walking with French people along the street
and there's this guy who zooms buy in his car
like a Range Rover. At least someone in the group
will say, just because the guy is driving a Range
Rover and he just zoomed by in the street and
(12:10):
his big Range Rover. I don't think that would happen
in the United States. I don't think it's ever happened
to me in the United States to hear that. Actually,
you know, so, I think you communicate very differently, and
in France you have to be very careful how you
communicate enthusiasm. It's great to be enthusiastic about a party,
about a movie, but just to go on and on
(12:32):
like this with the American style positivity, enthusiasm, bubbliness. After
a while, I think people would just look at you
a little funny. They would, especially if you're French, that
that would be even worse what is wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Because they think that there's something disingenuous about it, Like
do they think.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yes, yes, okay, yes, They would probably think that it's
too much. They would probably think That's what I would
say with French friends, I would think that after a while,
when the you know, when the facade can be a
face with botox, or it can be a facade on
a building. You can patch it up all you want,
but eventually there's a crack that starts showing and something
(13:14):
might even in the end it might even crumble. Nothing
is ever perfect. You know, we're not in Disneyland, so
surely it was a great vacation, but surely there was
something that happened that wasn't perfect. Even though you're trying
to say that it was, so the French will be
more suspicious. They know. I wouldn't say they don't believe
in happy endings because I would be harsh. Of course
(13:35):
they do. The expression is cherche apetit bit. You know,
you're looking for the what's the word, the glitch, you know,
something happened. So if it's too much, then it's not
it's not believable, it's not convincing. It's too much. And
that's what I think their perception of Americans can be.
Sometimes it's just too much, you know, it's a little
(13:56):
bit scary.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Even it can be over be it definitely.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
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Speaker 2 (14:37):
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I even hear the way my voice changes between when
I'm speaking French and I'm speaking English. You know, my
voice goes higher and pitch In English. I tend to,
you know, be quite enthusiastic with my voice. And then
(14:59):
in French there's even just even if you're not complaining
at all, there's all sorts of noises that you can make,
just like oh oh the faces, oh faces. I know,
unfortunately podcast listeners can't see the faces, but there's no
sort of the things that you can do with your
mouth and your and your cheeks to make it so
that you everybody knows that you're like. I don't know
about that. I love especially I think abroad we always
(15:22):
think ooh la la when we say it in French,
that it's something sexy. But most of the time in
French when people say oh la la, they're not saying
oh la la, They're saying.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Oh la la. It's never sexy. I mean, it's very
unusual that I hear French people use o la la
like that. Most of the time it will be surprised
or disappointment or even you know, shocked, like oh la
la la la, like I can't believe it. So those
are misunderstandings, you know, people using French expressions thinking they
carry ohvoi Lavola is another example, bola you know in
(15:53):
the States wola, and in France it's past me the
soul here you go wela. Yeah, you know, it's very different.
But overall, the French or more the communication process is
i would say a little bit quieter. Of course, we
shout when we're in group outside like everybody else does,
but it's a little bit we take a step back.
It's a little bit quieter, it's not quite as enthusiastic.
(16:16):
So very very different essentially from the American communication style.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Do you think that most French people, if if you
ask them to describe themselves, would think of themselves as
being pessimistic or negative.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
They would think of their neighbors being like that, or
their friends. But I'm guessing that their first reaction many
people would be to say, I'm not like that. I mean,
you are like that, but I'm not like that, And
then in the end, they would have a good old
fashioned French argument in the sense of discussion, debate, and
in the end they might say, yeah, I guess you're right.
(16:52):
I am like that a little bit. But it would
be after having this fun back and forth, you know,
conversation argument, because that is not a The French do
love going back and forth, and when they say something,
they like to be convinced. They like for you to
try to convince them that it's not the case. At
least a lot of French people do. Not all we're
really generalizing here, of course, but we have to otherwise
(17:15):
there's no conversation. But I think a lot of them
just expect you to know they're they're giving you a point.
They're making a point, almost expecting you to say the opposite.
And this is what what we were taught to do
in school. Okay, this goes back to the French school system.
When you go to school, at least when I was
in the school system, granted it was a few years back.
(17:37):
We would be given a point. In French class philosophy class,
we're given a point a statement. We're asking to write
the first side, which is the thesis. So we write
one point of view, and then we are expected to
write leonte tes, so the opposite, Y'll take both sides,
and then of course las sentees, which is the conclusion
where we might say what we think. So this is
(17:58):
how we've been taught to think. We look at something,
we don't buy it right away, we dissect it, we
take it apart, and never verbally. It was always in writing.
It was writing essays, and I think Americans are at
an advantage in that because Americans have debate teams and
they are more used, I think to do this verbally.
It may have changed in France. We have business schools
(18:19):
now where I know they're trained the way American students
are trained. But at the time, no, it was in writing,
and it comes from that dissecting issues, not accepting things
because you're told about you know this is the way
it's going to be, okay, but what about this? So
it takes forever. You dissect everything, and this can be
taken very far away. You know, eventually you protest and
(18:41):
you take to the streets because you don't agree with
what you've been thrown with what you've been given. So
that Hali issue starts as a small conversation between France
blah blah blah blah, and then it can go outside
in the streets.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That actually kind of leads me to one of the
other questions that I wanted to ask you about, because
I think you hit the nail on the head really
well when you were talking about the fact that the
French don't believe in this sort of overall positivity because
they know that nothing is perfect, and you know, bringing
it back to the French school system, I remember being told, like,
you know, in French as well, you know, everything is
graded out of twenty, and sort of jokingly, I was
(19:17):
always told, yes, but twenty is for God, Like, there
is no twenty. You don't get a twenty.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
No, not even an eighteen. I mean, eighteen out of
twenty is hard. Perfection doesn't exist. The teachers drill that
into your head. And what's also drilled in your head
is that you have to keep trying so it can
be better. So, yeah, perfection doesn't exist. So when somebody
is facing you and after ten minutes it's still hyperventilating,
or so it seems, it's so enthusiastic about something, you're going, Okay,
(19:45):
it's too much. It's just too much. You know what
I mean, it can be too much.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do you think that that sort of critical eye makes
it easier for the French to enact change in society
or you know, in even on the local, on the
on the smaller level, Is it easier for the French
to change things because they're able to better see what's wrong.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
You're tackling the word change. That would be an entire
podcast Emily with French and change. I think in theory, yes,
it would put them at an advantage to try and
change things because they question a lot of things, if
not everything in practice, and that would be a bit stereotypical,
but in practice they would like change as long as
(20:31):
it doesn't affect them directly. In theory, they like change
and they'll throw out great ideas out there that can
be very creative. But when it impacts them, especially financially,
then it might be a completely different story.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
So after all this time that you've spent, obviously you
grew up in France, you spent so much time in America.
I know you work closely with Americans. Do you find
it difficult to find the right tone when it comes
to the amount of positivity that you need to use
with different people.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
No, I guess I'm like you. I am a cultural chameleon.
I have two personalities or not, if not personalities, two
communication styles, and I know how to adapt to the
French when I talk to French people or to Americans
when I work with Americans, because I lead tours where
it's only Americans or at least North Americans. But deep down,
(21:30):
I think you choose a style, which is another interesting topic,
like which you know, if you've lived extensively in two cultures,
what style, what cultural traits are you going to adopt
in the end? And I think it's individual. It's on
the individual basis. I can be enthusiastic, but I'm also
very French in how I answer questions, which will always
(21:51):
be a bit of the the Cartesian approach. It will
always be very clear, very you know. So that's my
French side. But then again, if something is fun or
I'm enthusiastic, I'll share the enthusiasm as well. So I
guess I try and strike a balance. So that would
be my best answer. I try and strike a balance.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Do you ever get worried that, you know, having spent
as much time as you have in America will make
you come off as boast fall in French. Yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Also, I was an expat, and we say immigrant or expats.
That's also a debate, very much so to a lot
of French people. If you've been an expat, especially in
the United States, you've had money, you've had you know,
a big house, a big car, and it's not entirely
wrong that perception. So I think I was. When I returned.
(22:40):
I was extra careful and I still am. When I
talk to French people, I sometimes don't even mention I
lived in the United States because they are those perceptions,
you know. So some people will ask questions and they'll
be interested, but I'm very careful in how I talk
about that actually with French people, because I know, so
(23:00):
I know what the expectations or perceptions are of expats
and people who live in the US who have a
lot of things. You know, everybody knows that about Americans,
so or at least some Americans, I should say, sir,
that's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
If we don't overgeneralize on this podcast, we don't get anywhere.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
But it's true.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Everything is generalization, everything is, and you know, and people
have they still think of the US as this country
that bounce back after World War Two a lot faster
than Europe, and that is extremely successful where.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
People have big homes, etc. A lot of space. It's
not untrue, though, a lot of people struggle in the
United States, and that is why I think that positivity,
that enthusiasm that you see on social media with you know,
content creators that are totally bubbly and over the top.
I still i read the comments sometimes from French people,
(23:53):
and I'm surprised that some French people are not more
negative in their comments because they know it can't be
that perfect, you know, they know it can't be that great.
So it's always very interesting for me to see how
they project themselves and how the French react to that.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
So if we look at those sort of different ways
of talking about complaining in French, and we have party plants,
which is very much like an official like too large
and official complaint with the state for something, and you
have soupland, which is really to sort of actually just complain,
like be be a complainer.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
You have whu's peti and rali.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Is there a difference between those two for you?
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Who's pete for me is more of a language level
it's a little bit more familiar for me. In English,
I would say to twitch twitch Twitch Twitch, you know,
okay twitch, there is that scene and now you know
that movie with Kevin Klein and Meg Ryan that she
kiss French kiss and and she makes fun of him.
They're sitting in that little square they just arrived somewhere,
(24:55):
and she's sitting next to him and he's supposed to
be French in the movie, and she's a sent mocking
him and pretends to smoke a cigarette. Then goes twitch
stwetch dweitch, dowitch, streitch dweitch. For me, that's Hu'speiti twitching.
Is Hu'speiti?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
All right?
Speaker 1 (25:12):
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Speaker 2 (25:43):
Navigating the French will be right back after award from
our sponsors and now back to navigating the French. So
we have halle which I think almost everybody does in French.
It's that same sort of thing of like focusing a
little bit on the negative to offset the fact that
we're being about something. But then you have the word
that you brought up earlier on in the conversation, which
(26:04):
is aral, which is somebody who has yes. I think
if we can assume again being most French people hal
but not everybody is a color. What makes somebody a color?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Well, that's a very good point if you are stuck
with the labeled halleur at work. For example, I used
to manage teams for American Express in France and customer
service back in the day in reel Malmesso. And if
I had one of my customer service reps who was
labeled or halleur, and some of them were, it was
not a compliment, okay, because I knew that person was
(26:38):
going to be grumbling about every single thing without even
trying to understand. More out of practice, more out of habit,
and so ahaller, it's not good to be called a haller,
which is why I think some French people react to
that when you say a la la miquel halleu and
they'll say, I'm not a hallur. I just point out
a few things. It's very important not to be labeled
(26:59):
a halle because even the French cannot stand halle. Who
wants to be around somebody who's always negative, who's always
looking at the glass half empty. Nobody likes it. So
it's okay to you know, in short, it's okay to
highly in France. It's a sign almost of intelligence, of
belonging to the cool kids club. That means you're using
(27:20):
your brain. But don't be labeled a halla. Don't overdo
it because otherwise people will start walking away. And maybe
I don't know. Cling to an enthusiastic American who's standing
there is much more fun to be around.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And if you're an American and you're talking to a
French person and they're pointing out what sounds to you
like negative things, don't be offended because they're just being
intellectual and trying not to come off as boastful.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Exactly. You could say that, yeah, you could say that,
so and you navigate this one person, one conversation at
a time, of course, and people are very I've known
French people who are completely enthusiastic. In my family, there
are a lot of them. My grandfather was an entrepreneur,
and I was an entrepreneur because of him, probably long
before I moved to the US. And there are French
(28:11):
people like that, people who don't spend their time complaining
and halle all the time. And then you have Americans
who are introverted, shy, are not loud, are not always.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Ah it's so great, and who are whiny and who
are whiny?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Oh yeah, yeah, I do know that I am in
those groups. I know, I know they are. Yeah. So
it's interesting, I say, to meet people and see what
you're going to get. But it's also helpful when we generalize,
to know what the big trays are, the big national
trades are, because then you kind of know what to expect,
especially when you relocate to another culture. You know you
(28:50):
do have to start somewhere, and at least maybe you
won't take things as personally, maybe because you know that
that person is likely to do this, or when it happens,
you go, ah, now that's oh I just met hallo,
that wasn't authentic French. Hello, I just met my French
my first French Hello? How about that? And if you
know about that, listen to this podcast then maybe it
(29:12):
will help you hopefully.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast, Vernic.
It's been so fun talking with you. It was and
wants to get more of Vernik's really interesting insights, should
be sure and subscribe to her Substack newsletter. I'll be
putting a link in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Is there anywhere else where people can track you down
and find you?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I guess my website. My website takes people to everything
I do, and I do quite a few things, so
francewiththero dot com is the best way. And then, like
you said, because I think I'm enjoying Substack more and more,
and in the next few months, I'll be writing more
and more there because I love writing. So I finally
found a place where I enjoy writing. So I'm going
to stick with substack for a while.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think, Yeah, and that enjoyment really does come through,
So I really highly recommend that, soands too many of
our listeners. Thank you so much and have a fantastic
rest of your day.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Fantastic and you know what, Emily, if it's not fantastic,
it'll be ba mal It'll be ba mal ab abento.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
This has been Navigating the French. You can find more
from me Emily Monico at Emily Underscore in Underscore France,
on Twitter and Instagram. This podcast is produced by Paris
Underground Radio. To listen to other episodes of this podcast,
or to discover more podcasts like it, please visit Paris
Underground Radio dot com. Thanks for listening and abent.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
This episode of Navigating the French was produced by Jennifer
Garrity for Paris Underground Radio. For more great content, join
us on Patreon at Patreon dot com slash Paris Underground
Radio
You're listening to Navigating the French on Paris Underground Radio.
For more great content and a bonus episode of Navigating
the French, please join us on Patreon.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello and welcome to Navigating French, the podcast where each
episode we take a look at a French word and
try and see what it tells us about French culture.
I'm your host, Emily Monaco. This week, I'm joined by
Veronique Savois, a jack of all trades who's made France
her career. She's here to explore a word that explains
the reasons why American enthusiasm makes the French roll their
(00:36):
eyes and while what might seem like pessimism is a
lot more complex. Raali what welcome Veronique to the podcast.
I am so excited to have you with me today.
Could you just introduce yourself to our listeners and tell
us a little bit about who you are and what
you do here in France.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
And thank you for having me. I'm excited to be
here too, because I listen to your podcast and I've
enjoyed the past episode. My name is ver Nique, and
I am a French native who lived in the United
States for a long time. For over two decades and
finally relocated back to France in twenty nineteen. And to
make a long story short, that say, I am an
(01:20):
adult educator turned tour guide, so I switch hats throughout
the year. I am a tour guide, I am an
adult educator. I teach online French classes in the fall
and winter. The rest of the time, I continue teaching
about France in many different ways, including writing on substack.
I think that's the best way to summarize. France is
(01:40):
my passion. France is my business, and that's what I
share in many different ways.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And we're so honored that you're here to teach us
a little bit more about some little intricacies of French culture.
And the thing that we're going to talk about today
is actually one of my favorite words in French.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's this word halle. Halley is so hard.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
To translate, don't you think, like into English, it's really
hard to convey what halle means. How would you translate
it if you were going to try?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Well, it's it's it's very French, Hali. I think the
French are somewhat proud to have invented almost the concept
on hallo hallo HALLI I think there are lots of
possible translations for this. You can say to rouse, to complain,
to be a gram Timoan. I look them up actually,
to bitch, to twitch, to protest, to grumble, to whine,
(02:34):
and the list goes on. So you do have them
in English also, which is interesting. We do.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
We have some sort of translation, but you're right, it's
something that's so French, like, we can translate it a
little bit, but it doesn't mean we know how to
do it. The French are so elegant with the way
that they that they hall. I mean when you listed
all of those translations, I was trying to think, because
halle I think of is it's it's it's a form
of complaining, but it's not just to complain. There's a
(03:02):
lot more going on there. And I was thinking about, okay,
all these different words we have in French for complaining,
because we have halle, but then we also have puspetti,
and we have supplant, and we have party plants, and
they all they aren't synonyms. They all mean different ways
of saying something's wrong.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
There's nuance there, that's true.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So I guess you know, Soupplan feels like the best
true translation for just to complain.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, soupplant. The French love to Yeah, they they grouse,
they complain about things they do. So I think it's
a national trade that's almost been turned into a stereotype.
Actually not almost. It's a national trade that's been turned
into a stereotype. And interestingly, I think it's a stereotype
that the French embrace, which is very interesting because they
(03:55):
don't embrace all the stereotypes about fronts. They might even
feel offended some of them, but this is a stereotype.
Well they'll first say no, and then they'll say yeah,
I guess so. So it's very interesting it is.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
But I think what's interesting about it too is that
when we hear a French person ali ing, ali ing.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
We just made up a word. Why not?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
The neologism?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I think for especially for Americans, maybe less so for Brits,
but especially for Americans, it can sound so negative. You know,
you get a French person and like, literally right before
we started this recording, I was saying to you, oh man,
I'm going on all these trips and I have no
time to do my laundry. Like focus, I say, we
(04:45):
I've been here for seventeen years. I'm definitely not one
hundred percent French yet, but I feel like there are
bits of my personality that definitely absorbs some Frenchness. And
it's this desire to focus, even when you're saying something great,
and when you're saying, oh, I went to this Michelin
star rest at the other night and we spent five
hundred euros and this thing I've been looking forward to,
(05:06):
and can you believe my napkin had a thread loose
on it and I just hoped it the loose thread
all night. And you're like, okay, but how is the food?
You know, you focus on that little, that little negative detail.
But what I think is interesting is that a lot
of French people don't actually seem to feel like they're
complaining about something.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
No, that's true. I think it's part of the communication process.
It's part of the way we express ourselves. And for us,
it's not a problem because everybody does it. And for me,
it was really interesting to be an expot or an immigrant,
if you want to call it that. I lived in
the US for twenty three years and to follow some
groups on Facebook, you know, French expats in the United
(05:47):
States as I do now follow American groups since I'm
a binational, follow American groups in France, and it would
be fun when somebody would start complaining, a French person
would start complaining about something, as expats have been known
to do, not just the French in Facebook groups, and
immediately some French people would jump in and say, oh no,
I mean we left that behind, we left France behind.
(06:10):
We're not going to complain. We're not going to holly
here too. But of course they did, and they did.
You know, you could see the messages and the responses
and everything. I think you just can't help it. I
think it's part of who you are.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, and that was interesting, It's super interesting. And obviously
I think any ex pat abroad is going to focus
on the things that they miss, right, like you know,
you join I'm sure the American expac groups and people
are gonna be like the Oreos don't taste the same here,
or you know, there's.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
No Mexican food and I don't understand, and they don't
have washers and the air conditioning is never cold enough.
I could write a book on that. Actually, it would
be fun to write a book on both sides. It
would be.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
And there's so much of this sort of like noticing
the negative. But when I think about the way that
the French hal it often feels conversational, like it's not
as though they actually I think the difference that I've noticed, Right,
if you complain to your American friends, they're like, great,
let's find a solution, You're like, oh my god, I'm
(07:11):
so tired at work and my boss doesn't listen to me.
I don't know what to do. It's like, all right,
let's brainstorm. How are we going to fix this? And
I feel like if a French person is halling like
they don't want help, they aren't trying to fix it.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
No, it's I think in one way, it's a way
to vent and they need you to just listen at
that point. They don't need you to find a solution,
though I too would try and find a solution after
a while. Especially that person is going on and on forever.
I think they it's almost an act. It's almost a performance.
It's almost Sarah Bernhardt on a stage, Ladyvine going on
(07:46):
and on and on about something. It's part of the
national identity and for a lot of French people, Halle,
which is a negative way of saying it is. Also
the positive spin on it would be to say it's
a sign of intelligence. It's a sign of the fact
that you analyze situations. You don't buy everything. Just like that,
(08:07):
you're going to analyze situations and if something's wrong, you're
going to talk about it and you're going to face
it and address it. So for them it's not a
negative thing. I think that's where it comes from. Really,
it's not a problem.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And I think that's perhaps the most important thing that
gets lost in translation with this is when somebody who's
not from France, here's the French complaining, there's always this
assumption that, oh, nothing can ever be good enough. But
actually it's not that. It's what you said. It's this
analytical sort of intellectualizing of the space around you. And
I think one way that we see it perhaps most
(08:43):
clearly is if we draw a distinction between that and
the sort of overwrought positivity of Americans. Because Americans in France,
if anybody is making fun of an American in French,
they go, oh.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Say amazing, amaz.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Because we think everything's amazing. How do the French feel
about that when there's Americans proclaiming that everything is amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I think, on the one hand, there's a positive reaction
to the positivity, to the enthusiasm and the can do
attitude that a lot of Americans show. So that's the
positive thing. At the same time, people will be prone
to say it's not real, it's fake. Nobody can be
that happy, that enthusiastic, that positive all the time, and
(09:32):
so I think there's both right. So you can be
enthusiastic in France, it's perfectly fine, but you always have
to add a little nuance of maybe pointing out something
that's not quite so perfect. That's what I would do
if I talk to French people. I would talk to
French people very differently from the way I explain something
to my American friends. There are just two ways to
(09:52):
communicate the same piece of news for me, whether I'm
talking to a group of French people and a group
of Americans. For sure, you need to just adapt the
way you explain it. You know, I wouldn't brag. I
wouldn't say it's all great, it was great, it was great,
you know, to a group of French people, I would
say that, but then they would start looking at me funny.
(10:13):
After a while, and I would feel almost compelled to
add a detail to prove that something either was a
challenge or didn't go as planned. You know. That would
be my way of the nuance, of introducing the nuance.
And that's probably the thing they were just chew on.
Oh what happened? Why not? And this is the thing
they're interested in. With my American friends that just said
(10:34):
it was great, was wonderful when it's planned. You know,
we could have done so much more, but we didn't.
We had a very different way of communicating. But I
think you probably do the same since you've lived in
France for seventeen years. You do adjust or adapt, I
would say, more adapt to the person you're talking to,
don't you.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh definitely. But I wonder now thinking about it, like
why do I do that? What am I afraid that?
If I'm really positive and I say, oh, I just
did this thing and it was great, what am I
afraid my French friends going to think? And on the
flip side, if I say to an American like, oh, yeah,
like it was pretty good, but you know, my train
(11:12):
was late and then it rained, and so like that
part wasn't great, but everything else was good. Like, why
am I afraid of showing the true nuance to my
American friends? And why am I afraid of being too
overwrought with my positivity with my French friends. Do you
have like an instinct as to why that would be.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
With a French person or with a group of French people.
I don't think that Positivit can turn very quickly into bragging,
you know, talking about a great trip you just had
and going on and on and on about that. And
you know, you know as well as I do that
in France, bragging, showing off what you have, maybe material things,
(11:50):
status symbols. It can go very far. Is not okay,
It's not something that in society is very well accepted.
You will be walking with French people along the street
and there's this guy who zooms buy in his car
like a Range Rover. At least someone in the group
will say, just because the guy is driving a Range
Rover and he just zoomed by in the street and
(12:10):
his big Range Rover. I don't think that would happen
in the United States. I don't think it's ever happened
to me in the United States to hear that. Actually,
you know, so, I think you communicate very differently, and
in France you have to be very careful how you
communicate enthusiasm. It's great to be enthusiastic about a party,
about a movie, but just to go on and on
(12:32):
like this with the American style positivity, enthusiasm, bubbliness. After
a while, I think people would just look at you
a little funny. They would, especially if you're French, that
that would be even worse what is wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Because they think that there's something disingenuous about it, Like
do they think.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yes, yes, okay, yes, They would probably think that it's
too much. They would probably think That's what I would
say with French friends, I would think that after a while,
when the you know, when the facade can be a
face with botox, or it can be a facade on
a building. You can patch it up all you want,
but eventually there's a crack that starts showing and something
(13:14):
might even in the end it might even crumble. Nothing
is ever perfect. You know, we're not in Disneyland, so
surely it was a great vacation, but surely there was
something that happened that wasn't perfect. Even though you're trying
to say that it was, so the French will be
more suspicious. They know. I wouldn't say they don't believe
in happy endings because I would be harsh. Of course
(13:35):
they do. The expression is cherche apetit bit. You know,
you're looking for the what's the word, the glitch, you know,
something happened. So if it's too much, then it's not
it's not believable, it's not convincing. It's too much. And
that's what I think their perception of Americans can be.
Sometimes it's just too much, you know, it's a little
(13:56):
bit scary.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Even it can be over be it definitely.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
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Speaker 2 (14:37):
Podcasts Navigating the French, you'll be right back after a
word from our sponsors, and now back to navigating the French.
I even hear the way my voice changes between when
I'm speaking French and I'm speaking English. You know, my
voice goes higher and pitch In English. I tend to,
you know, be quite enthusiastic with my voice. And then
(14:59):
in French there's even just even if you're not complaining
at all, there's all sorts of noises that you can make,
just like oh oh the faces, oh faces. I know,
unfortunately podcast listeners can't see the faces, but there's no
sort of the things that you can do with your
mouth and your and your cheeks to make it so
that you everybody knows that you're like. I don't know
about that. I love especially I think abroad we always
(15:22):
think ooh la la when we say it in French,
that it's something sexy. But most of the time in
French when people say oh la la, they're not saying
oh la la, They're saying.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Oh la la. It's never sexy. I mean, it's very
unusual that I hear French people use o la la
like that. Most of the time it will be surprised
or disappointment or even you know, shocked, like oh la
la la la, like I can't believe it. So those
are misunderstandings, you know, people using French expressions thinking they
carry ohvoi Lavola is another example, bola you know in
(15:53):
the States wola, and in France it's past me the
soul here you go wela. Yeah, you know, it's very different.
But overall, the French or more the communication process is
i would say a little bit quieter. Of course, we
shout when we're in group outside like everybody else does,
but it's a little bit we take a step back.
It's a little bit quieter, it's not quite as enthusiastic.
(16:16):
So very very different essentially from the American communication style.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Do you think that most French people, if if you
ask them to describe themselves, would think of themselves as
being pessimistic or negative.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
They would think of their neighbors being like that, or
their friends. But I'm guessing that their first reaction many
people would be to say, I'm not like that. I mean,
you are like that, but I'm not like that, And
then in the end, they would have a good old
fashioned French argument in the sense of discussion, debate, and
in the end they might say, yeah, I guess you're right.
(16:52):
I am like that a little bit. But it would
be after having this fun back and forth, you know,
conversation argument, because that is not a The French do
love going back and forth, and when they say something,
they like to be convinced. They like for you to
try to convince them that it's not the case. At
least a lot of French people do. Not all we're
really generalizing here, of course, but we have to otherwise
(17:15):
there's no conversation. But I think a lot of them
just expect you to know they're they're giving you a point.
They're making a point, almost expecting you to say the opposite.
And this is what what we were taught to do
in school. Okay, this goes back to the French school system.
When you go to school, at least when I was
in the school system, granted it was a few years back.
(17:37):
We would be given a point. In French class philosophy class,
we're given a point a statement. We're asking to write
the first side, which is the thesis. So we write
one point of view, and then we are expected to
write leonte tes, so the opposite, Y'll take both sides,
and then of course las sentees, which is the conclusion
where we might say what we think. So this is
(17:58):
how we've been taught to think. We look at something,
we don't buy it right away, we dissect it, we
take it apart, and never verbally. It was always in writing.
It was writing essays, and I think Americans are at
an advantage in that because Americans have debate teams and
they are more used, I think to do this verbally.
It may have changed in France. We have business schools
(18:19):
now where I know they're trained the way American students
are trained. But at the time, no, it was in writing,
and it comes from that dissecting issues, not accepting things
because you're told about you know this is the way
it's going to be, okay, but what about this? So
it takes forever. You dissect everything, and this can be
taken very far away. You know, eventually you protest and
(18:41):
you take to the streets because you don't agree with
what you've been thrown with what you've been given. So
that Hali issue starts as a small conversation between France
blah blah blah blah, and then it can go outside
in the streets.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
That actually kind of leads me to one of the
other questions that I wanted to ask you about, because
I think you hit the nail on the head really
well when you were talking about the fact that the
French don't believe in this sort of overall positivity because
they know that nothing is perfect, and you know, bringing
it back to the French school system, I remember being told, like,
you know, in French as well, you know, everything is
graded out of twenty, and sort of jokingly, I was
(19:17):
always told, yes, but twenty is for God, Like, there
is no twenty. You don't get a twenty.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
No, not even an eighteen. I mean, eighteen out of
twenty is hard. Perfection doesn't exist. The teachers drill that
into your head. And what's also drilled in your head
is that you have to keep trying so it can
be better. So, yeah, perfection doesn't exist. So when somebody
is facing you and after ten minutes it's still hyperventilating,
or so it seems, it's so enthusiastic about something, you're going, Okay,
(19:45):
it's too much. It's just too much. You know what
I mean, it can be too much.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do you think that that sort of critical eye makes
it easier for the French to enact change in society
or you know, in even on the local, on the
on the smaller level, Is it easier for the French
to change things because they're able to better see what's wrong.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
You're tackling the word change. That would be an entire
podcast Emily with French and change. I think in theory, yes,
it would put them at an advantage to try and
change things because they question a lot of things, if
not everything in practice, and that would be a bit stereotypical,
but in practice they would like change as long as
(20:31):
it doesn't affect them directly. In theory, they like change
and they'll throw out great ideas out there that can
be very creative. But when it impacts them, especially financially,
then it might be a completely different story.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
So after all this time that you've spent, obviously you
grew up in France, you spent so much time in America.
I know you work closely with Americans. Do you find
it difficult to find the right tone when it comes
to the amount of positivity that you need to use
with different people.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
No, I guess I'm like you. I am a cultural chameleon.
I have two personalities or not, if not personalities, two
communication styles, and I know how to adapt to the
French when I talk to French people or to Americans
when I work with Americans, because I lead tours where
it's only Americans or at least North Americans. But deep down,
(21:30):
I think you choose a style, which is another interesting topic,
like which you know, if you've lived extensively in two cultures,
what style, what cultural traits are you going to adopt
in the end? And I think it's individual. It's on
the individual basis. I can be enthusiastic, but I'm also
very French in how I answer questions, which will always
(21:51):
be a bit of the the Cartesian approach. It will
always be very clear, very you know. So that's my
French side. But then again, if something is fun or
I'm enthusiastic, I'll share the enthusiasm as well. So I
guess I try and strike a balance. So that would
be my best answer. I try and strike a balance.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Do you ever get worried that, you know, having spent
as much time as you have in America will make
you come off as boast fall in French. Yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Also, I was an expat, and we say immigrant or expats.
That's also a debate, very much so to a lot
of French people. If you've been an expat, especially in
the United States, you've had money, you've had you know,
a big house, a big car, and it's not entirely
wrong that perception. So I think I was. When I returned.
(22:40):
I was extra careful and I still am. When I
talk to French people, I sometimes don't even mention I
lived in the United States because they are those perceptions,
you know. So some people will ask questions and they'll
be interested, but I'm very careful in how I talk
about that actually with French people, because I know, so
(23:00):
I know what the expectations or perceptions are of expats
and people who live in the US who have a
lot of things. You know, everybody knows that about Americans,
so or at least some Americans, I should say, sir,
that's a tough one.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
If we don't overgeneralize on this podcast, we don't get anywhere.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
But it's true.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Everything is generalization, everything is, and you know, and people
have they still think of the US as this country
that bounce back after World War Two a lot faster
than Europe, and that is extremely successful where.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
People have big homes, etc. A lot of space. It's
not untrue, though, a lot of people struggle in the
United States, and that is why I think that positivity,
that enthusiasm that you see on social media with you know,
content creators that are totally bubbly and over the top.
I still i read the comments sometimes from French people,
(23:53):
and I'm surprised that some French people are not more
negative in their comments because they know it can't be
that perfect, you know, they know it can't be that great.
So it's always very interesting for me to see how
they project themselves and how the French react to that.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
So if we look at those sort of different ways
of talking about complaining in French, and we have party plants,
which is very much like an official like too large
and official complaint with the state for something, and you
have soupland, which is really to sort of actually just complain,
like be be a complainer.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
You have whu's peti and rali.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Is there a difference between those two for you?
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Who's pete for me is more of a language level
it's a little bit more familiar for me. In English,
I would say to twitch twitch Twitch Twitch, you know,
okay twitch, there is that scene and now you know
that movie with Kevin Klein and Meg Ryan that she
kiss French kiss and and she makes fun of him.
They're sitting in that little square they just arrived somewhere,
(24:55):
and she's sitting next to him and he's supposed to
be French in the movie, and she's a sent mocking
him and pretends to smoke a cigarette. Then goes twitch
stwetch dweitch, dowitch, streitch dweitch. For me, that's Hu'speiti twitching.
Is Hu'speiti?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
All right?
Speaker 1 (25:12):
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Speaker 2 (25:43):
Navigating the French will be right back after award from
our sponsors and now back to navigating the French. So
we have halle which I think almost everybody does in French.
It's that same sort of thing of like focusing a
little bit on the negative to offset the fact that
we're being about something. But then you have the word
that you brought up earlier on in the conversation, which
(26:04):
is aral, which is somebody who has yes. I think
if we can assume again being most French people hal
but not everybody is a color. What makes somebody a color?
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Well, that's a very good point if you are stuck
with the labeled halleur at work. For example, I used
to manage teams for American Express in France and customer
service back in the day in reel Malmesso. And if
I had one of my customer service reps who was
labeled or halleur, and some of them were, it was
not a compliment, okay, because I knew that person was
(26:38):
going to be grumbling about every single thing without even
trying to understand. More out of practice, more out of habit,
and so ahaller, it's not good to be called a haller,
which is why I think some French people react to
that when you say a la la miquel halleu and
they'll say, I'm not a hallur. I just point out
a few things. It's very important not to be labeled
(26:59):
a halle because even the French cannot stand halle. Who
wants to be around somebody who's always negative, who's always
looking at the glass half empty. Nobody likes it. So
it's okay to you know, in short, it's okay to
highly in France. It's a sign almost of intelligence, of
belonging to the cool kids club. That means you're using
(27:20):
your brain. But don't be labeled a halla. Don't overdo
it because otherwise people will start walking away. And maybe
I don't know. Cling to an enthusiastic American who's standing
there is much more fun to be around.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And if you're an American and you're talking to a
French person and they're pointing out what sounds to you
like negative things, don't be offended because they're just being
intellectual and trying not to come off as boastful.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Exactly. You could say that, yeah, you could say that,
so and you navigate this one person, one conversation at
a time, of course, and people are very I've known
French people who are completely enthusiastic. In my family, there
are a lot of them. My grandfather was an entrepreneur,
and I was an entrepreneur because of him, probably long
before I moved to the US. And there are French
(28:11):
people like that, people who don't spend their time complaining
and halle all the time. And then you have Americans
who are introverted, shy, are not loud, are not always.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Ah it's so great, and who are whiny and who
are whiny?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
Oh yeah, yeah, I do know that I am in
those groups. I know, I know they are. Yeah. So
it's interesting, I say, to meet people and see what
you're going to get. But it's also helpful when we generalize,
to know what the big trays are, the big national
trades are, because then you kind of know what to expect,
especially when you relocate to another culture. You know you
(28:50):
do have to start somewhere, and at least maybe you
won't take things as personally, maybe because you know that
that person is likely to do this, or when it happens,
you go, ah, now that's oh I just met hallo,
that wasn't authentic French. Hello, I just met my French
my first French Hello? How about that? And if you
know about that, listen to this podcast then maybe it
(29:12):
will help you hopefully.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast, Vernic.
It's been so fun talking with you. It was and
wants to get more of Vernik's really interesting insights, should
be sure and subscribe to her Substack newsletter. I'll be
putting a link in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Is there anywhere else where people can track you down
and find you?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
I guess my website. My website takes people to everything
I do, and I do quite a few things, so
francewiththero dot com is the best way. And then, like
you said, because I think I'm enjoying Substack more and more,
and in the next few months, I'll be writing more
and more there because I love writing. So I finally
found a place where I enjoy writing. So I'm going
to stick with substack for a while.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I think, Yeah, and that enjoyment really does come through,
So I really highly recommend that, soands too many of
our listeners. Thank you so much and have a fantastic
rest of your day.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Fantastic and you know what, Emily, if it's not fantastic,
it'll be ba mal It'll be ba mal ab abento.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
This has been Navigating the French. You can find more
from me Emily Monico at Emily Underscore in Underscore France,
on Twitter and Instagram. This podcast is produced by Paris
Underground Radio. To listen to other episodes of this podcast,
or to discover more podcasts like it, please visit Paris
Underground Radio dot com. Thanks for listening and abent.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
This episode of Navigating the French was produced by Jennifer
Garrity for Paris Underground Radio. For more great content, join
us on Patreon at Patreon dot com slash Paris Underground
Radio
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