188: The Meadow Project w/ Wesley Roth | Nephilim Death Squad - Nephilim Death Squad

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Top lots of productions.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
We are being hypnotized people like this news readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers.
We are in a country and in a world that
is being run by unbelievably sick people. And the chasm
between what we're told is going on and what it's

(00:27):
really going on is absolutely.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Oh yeah, dude, listen thatlom ship.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
It's like we all know what's going down, but no
one's saying to it. What happens to the home of
the breed? There much they can do in this now,
and no one's talking about and the side of.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Reclas and everybody's just.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Walking around in the plasmon awaken doing that in the greve.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
But its lay.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
We need to be ready to raise up.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Welcome to the edge of this.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Everybody is sleep Only some are aware. Is that the
government releasing poison and n Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen
to another episode of Nephelum Death Squad as always. Oh wait,
this is in timeline clean. I am David Lee Corbo
aka the Raven that is top Lobster, the father of
this information.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
We didn't even start the show and it's ruined.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Already ruined. Can we start it?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Over.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Before we get into today's guest, a little reminder for
all of the live viewers, sometime around the thirty minute mark,
we're going to be going live exclusively to patreon dot
com backslash Nephlum Death Squad. You can continue watching this
live episode, engaging in the live chat, and also gaining
access to our backlog of content. And you could do
it all for free if you sign up for the
seven day free trial and then hopefully you forget to

(01:38):
cancel your membership and we get to bill you and
collect your money. Anyway, guys, getting into today's guests, we
have are joined by Wes. You want to bring him up? Geez,
there we go. Wesley. For the audience who may not
be familiar with you, let them know a little bit
about what you do and what you're here to talk

(01:59):
about today.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, thanks for having me, guys. I am a filmmaker.
I used to be a filmmaker. I used to make
the show cast Castle over at tim Cast and then
I think everybody here knows about the diaspora, the exodus,
when we were exiled into Babylon, and so now I

(02:25):
linked up with Tony Merkle and who was a friend
of mine from before. He did a couple of episodes
of Cast Castle with me actually and then with our director.
His name is Ward. He has a company called Dark Holler.
If you've guys, have everybody in the chat, you've never
watched Dark Haller, the series on YouTube. Awesome, awesome, So

(02:48):
super excited to get to work with him. And we've
got a fim coming out this weekend.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yes, and that's a lot of what we're here to
talk about is this coming out this weekend. But I
mean it's an interesting sort of segue career wise, right,
you go from doing hard political commentary or at least
being well, I was.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
The producer on one of the producers on Inverted World,
like I was the I was the producer when you
guys did the show the first time.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, Shane Cashman has a great way of bridging that
gap between what Tim does over at Tim Cass and
then what I guess, this kind of spooky realm. It's
actually why we we you know, among many things are
the reasons that we love Shane Cashman, but we had
him be a part of Brohemian Grove because he's got
that kind of spooky bent to him and Honestly, the

(03:40):
conversations that we had with when you talk to Shane
Cashman and you find out like what his childhood was
like living on that military base, and the man dressed
up as bears, very strange, very strange. So but I mean,
I guess in that way then it's not such a
giant segue for you. But you're still surrounded by so
much of that political commentary where I feel like, so
certainly what what Tony presents to the audience is void

(04:04):
of that entirely. So now you're emerged in, or immersed
rather in the spooky. How has that been that transition
for you, going solely to spooky stuff?

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, honestly, like, I don't not that hard because even
before I worked for Tim, I this was like I
spent all of COVID just researching in Atlantis, Like that's
all just reading everything, Like I read Ignatius, Donnelly and
all these like heretic writers, Edgar Casey, like I was

(04:35):
super into that. I read Madame Blavatski and Alic Bailey
and all that, Like it just went super down. Like dude,
I remember one time when they first opened up waffle House,
I was sitting there and I like had red in
my eyes telling my friend about the Lusist trust. I
was like, so far down the rabbit hole. But even
before that, like I had in like twenty twelve, I
went down the Illuminati thing you remember when like people are

(04:56):
discovering like, oh, I went down that rabbit hole too,
and had like tould my self out of it because
I was seeing it everywhere and successfully like retook the
blue pill to an extent where I was like, Okay,
I need to be able to live in the world
and not feel constantly afraid. Yeah, And so I guess
I've always had that bent, which is weird because I'm
also I have extreme normalcy bias, like I am always

(05:19):
I'm super skeptical about everything and lean towards like people
are good, people are normal, not so much anymore. But yeah,
but I wanted to get out of like, to be honest,
Even at Timcast, I didn't. I was probably less politically
active than I've ever been in my life when I

(05:39):
worked there because I was around it so much where
I was like, I don't care. I do not care.
All I care about is bigfoot in the neplum. That's
all I care about.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Imes hard to engage with those ideas when you have
I mean, not only because it's hard to take it serious,
but this other field of study, which I'm comfortable calling
it a field as if previously would have been suited
science and ridiculed. But I think the strangeness of life
has dragged us into a place where the conversation is
much more serious regarding what was previously dubbed pseudoscience. But

(06:10):
it's so much more fascinating. It's so much more interesting,
and I don't know, for better or for worse, it's
so much more entertaining than trying to engage in the
political conversation, right.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
And it's and beyond that, like it feels more uh consequential,
you know what I mean, Like it like that feels
more really dude, because a lot of people are like, yeah,
that's kind of fantasy stuff. And it's like it's way
more real than politics.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Almost makes politics feel like like if if this is
you know, more real than and it almost makes it
feel like politics is theater. But I don't know, man,
it's been a it's been an interesting thing to watch
your uh, your your development, your relationship with Tony, and
I feel like it's a it's a lot better of
a place for you. You guys just wrapped up this documentary

(06:56):
that we're here to talk about today that releases what when?
When is it coming out? And what's the name?

Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's called The Metal Project. It releases July twenty seventh
at eight pm on Moment dot Co, Moment dot Coe
And it's I So I was not there to film
this one. I will be filming them all going forward.
I film, we filmed, We've already filmed another documentary. I
think I don't think I'm breaking any news there. I

(07:21):
think Tony's mentioned that several times. I'm that at not
spoiling things, So I can do you want to?

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Can we just play the trailer and check it out?

Speaker 2 (07:33):
No? Yes, like.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Thing we could do, because I yeah, I'm guilty of
like hearing about Tony's documentaries and then not watching them.
I just I guess I do a lot of I
watch all of his shows, but not the documentaries.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
I actually have. I've watched the documentaries. You know. It's
you know why, because even though it's kind of this
is an insulting thing at all, but it's like it's
almost been there, done that in the sense of like
being in the woods and looking for these cryptids. But
the old formula has been so beat to death, you
know what I mean When you watch like and it's
nothing against these guys, but like Bigfoot Hunters, let's say,

(08:12):
for example, it's the same thing every episode and they
haven't had a fresh take on it. I don't know
if the series is still running, but you can guess
at what you're gonna get. You're gonna get knocking on trees,
you're gonna get whooping, and you're gonna be like, did
somebody just throw a stone or something like that.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
And so.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
It's not the content's foult. It's the way that the
content is packaged and then presented to the listener or
the watcher. Because this stuff is incredibly fascinating. I mean,
there's something there. It's just for whatever reason, these shows
have fallen into their old habits. So Tony comes along
and he makes something about something that's been around for

(08:51):
a while, but it's done through a fresh lens, and
so I do enjoy what he's been doing lately.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
It's it for me. It's purely just like overload, Like
there's so much good content and I'm like, how much
can I actually watch if Tony Merkle like literally probably
almost find me. What does he do two hours each
episode about so like four hours a week. That's a
lot like when you're pumping. But let's check this out
and we'll see. Uh, let's see what this is about
and we'll get into this.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah. Cool, there we go.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Let's let's check it out.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
This place is very special, extremely special. It ranks very
high on the list of extreme high strange, extreme high strange,
extreme high strange.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
There was all kinds of different phenomena that his team
had documented at the meadow.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean, stuff was popping off at the freaking camp.
We knew of all the stories that we had heard
and tell over multiple podcasts for the last few years.
I'm not sure what about yourself about just turned into
a ball of up.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Something grabbed my legs and was pulling me out of bed.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
The only way I could describe it.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Was shadow people everywhere.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
The anticipation part start ramping up. We are big fans
of putting ourselves in environments to see how it unfolds
around us.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
What was that? Okay, I got that on camera, saw
something like real strange.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
I was starting to let myself believe we were getting
too close to the truth.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's freak and go.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Welcome to the meadow. So it's weird.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
It's definitely a teaser. And before I go anywhere, I
want to ask what inspired the cube on the thumbnail
for the meadow project. The cube obviously is something that
comes up constantly and Saturn worship, you know, the Tesla ract, right,
this idea of a of a of a fourth dimensional object.

(10:53):
I mean, there's a lot of real significance to the
symbolism of the cube. Why choose that for the thumbnail?

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, I can share this because this Tony's talked about
this several times while the group. So Trey Hudson is
the founder of ASOG, the Anomalous Studies an Observation Group.
They are the team. They've been investigating this place since
twenty twelve or thirteen somewhere in there. And at one point,

(11:22):
I think it was twenty seventeen, they were doing a
nighttime investigation in the meadow and on thermal. Kristen saw
a cube on thermal, could not see it with her eyes,
but it was a cube about twenty five feet tall
and wide. And so they had three other members there

(11:46):
with thermals and put the thermals on and they all
saw this cube. And then there's another team that consisted
of Trey and two others that were on this ridge
behind it. So this meadow is sort of a valley.
There's two ridges on either side, on either side, and
they were up there and they saw it on their

(12:07):
thermal as well.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
The same one in the same location.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
The same location. Yeah. Now the now, I'll say, we've
got one thermal in the film of this cube. The
other thermals were passive, not active, so they were like
visual aids, not recorders. So they were using them to

(12:33):
like see in the dark. Because this was like two
or three am, and so they called this unit to
come down to check it out and go to the spot.
And we've got that footage where they're walking up. They're
talking them into the spot and as they approached the cube,
they're saying, hey, slow down, and at one point it
dissipates and disappears, and then as they're starting to walk away,

(12:57):
they're like, guys, guys, guys, it's coming back, and like
you can see it's in it. It's very ethereal, like
it's it's almost like if you had a glass cube
and filled it with smoke. Like that's sort of what
it looks like and like and like I said, I
have extreme normalcy bias. So I look at this and say,

(13:17):
there's an explanation for this, right, And so I'm looking
at the footage that they have from the next day
because I'm like, this is brush or leaves or something. Well,
this is February, and so the footage from the next
day where they recreated the walking path, there's nothing. There's
no brush, there's no like anything that would resemble this shape.

(13:41):
And then I just say, Okay, well, I like, while
I don't know what I'm looking at, at one point
it does disappear, right. So as they approach the cube,
they walk into the area where it is and there
thermal this cube.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
Just for clarification purposes, West, this is ground level. This
isn't something that round the tree line or anything like that.
This is ground no, yep.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
And it's sitting and like on the according to the
testimony from Kristen, when it was at its most illuminate,
it's because it's heat, right, So it's when it's its hottest.
The ground under it was glowing hot, like there's like

(14:28):
something had just been sitting on it like warm, you know,
kind of like if an animal's laying down and gets up.
That's what the grass looks like. And so they walk
into the spot where this thing is sitting.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
So this is this thing actually on the ground or
is it floating it?

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Her description of it is that it was like inches
above the ground, so like like six inches above the ground,
but it's twenty five feet wide and twenty five feet tall,
so crazy significant or insignificant amount of space. And so
they walk into this space and their thermal images just disappear.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
So as they're inside of the cube or what they
should be inside of, they no longer exist to the
outside world. Yes, what is the meadow? Let's start there?
What what is this place?

Speaker 2 (15:14):
What it is? So it is a place they call
it the Skinwalker Branch of the South, and it is
a location within a forest that has The reason that
they checked out in the first place is because there's
a lot of Native American legends about it and this

(15:38):
being called the Chromacher and there was also some like
Sasquatch legends that came from there. So the guy at
the end who says welcome to the meadow, he's a
sasquatch researcher, and he almost all of them are either
paramedics or law enforcement or special operation former Special Operations Tray.

(16:02):
The guy who founded it is former D I A.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
I believe, can I just I'd like to just offer
some clarification for the audience. So I typed in crow
Macker and it auto corrected to raven Mocker, which I
find to be insulting. And it says the raven mockers
are figures in Cherokee mythology described as witches or evil
spirits that prolong their lives by praying on the sick

(16:25):
and dying.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
And we're going to get to that.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Where exactly you're not allowed to disclose the location of
this somewhere in the South.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Somewhere in the South, would you tell us? Cannot tell
you off camera.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
You can't even say the state.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
I can't even say the state. Wow.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Very interesting. Okay, yep, I have an NDA on that. Okay,
please continue, Please continue. I don't want to get you
in trouble.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
I was just yeah, no, no, I everybody's curious. But
but it's to preserve because it is not the location
is is accessible. That's why. So it's it's hard to
get to but but you could get to it.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
And privately owned.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
It is not interesting? Yes, that is interesting.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
So now I see. I don't want to keep prying.
But now we're like leading to this assumption. Was like,
is this part of a state park? We're talking about
the Daniel Boone National but that's like more central. I
don't say anything too much. Yeah, just cover your face.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
It's just in the south. Yeah, it's just somewhere in
the south. And there's a lot of southern states. There's
you know, Texas and Florida.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Another question in the south. Yeah, but that's that's south.
But if we're talking about the thirty third Parallel, now
I got I got some more questions because that would
run across like just north of Florida. You're talking Georgia,
and then that kind.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Of giveaway too much. I'm just saying thirty third parallel stuff?

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Is it close or is this that?

Speaker 2 (17:59):
I don't know. I don't know because I don't know.
I don't know the exact location, right right, I just
all I know is the state. Gotcha?

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Gotcha?

Speaker 3 (18:09):
Is it a uh?

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (18:11):
Never mind the Concealed and Carry state. You sure want
to be packaged.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
However, so to end the cube story, and that was
the first time they have seen the cube. I believe
they've seen it two more times, so I think three
appearances of the cube. Yeah and no, not in the
same spot. And they so they went into the cube, right,

(18:42):
and then the cube disappears around them and they reappear
in the spot where they're standing. Now. How they describe it,
and this is in the film as well, is that
when they went into the cube, it felt very easy
to get into. However, when the cube disappeared, they were
surrounded by brambles and they had to like stomp them
down to get out, and so they're like, we're not
here when we went in. And then additionally, two of

(19:06):
the three people who entered the cube have now passed away.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Okay, wait, okay, so yeah, the brambles that you're talking about,
they were around the perimeter of the cube and then
they had.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
They were they were standing in them. So where they
were standing in the brambles and they're like and briars
and they were like these we did not They said
it was flat like grass when they walked in.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
And then this is at nightfall, right, so I mean
this is a nice or else they wouldn't be using
thermal visions, so they didn't perceive any difficulty getting into
the proximity and then crossing over into what would have
been I guess we could describe it as a veil
of some sort. But when this cube does disappear and
their images reappear on thermal imaging suddenly, then they're obstructed
by bramble and bush.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Uh so it's almost like inside of this cube is uh.
I mean, this seems like the perimeters of the cube
seemed like a portal and inside of it are somewhere else,
and then when it dis peers, you're back into normal reality.
Very interesting. Now when they've seen when they saw the
cube three different times, I think I just asked this,
but I'm retarded. They are in different locate, the cube

(20:10):
is on a different spot. Yeah, same size, same cube.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
I don't know about the size on the other times.
I just know that they've mentioned seeing it other times
and I don't have it, Like I'm as familiar with
this as I am the footage that I have right,
I was not on location. And to be clear on
what this film is, this film is sort of an
observation of the work that they've already done. So there

(20:36):
is a book. Trey has a book called The Metal Project,
And this is less about what Tony and them and
the gang went to do. The they were there to
get the stories from them in location and and not
it not feels sterile, right, So there were investigations taking place,

(20:59):
but it's more this film is more about adapting this
the stories from this book and putting the information out there.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
It happened to know, Wes if there was like on
this property near these sightings of this cube running water
or anything like that, like creek.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Maybe, Yes, we'll talk about that.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
One hundred and come on, come on, Trey, what are
we doing here?

Speaker 2 (21:22):
It might be out of print.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, I think it's so.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah that top West says that there or at least
seem to have hinted that there was a body of
running water nearby.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Okay, that makes sense. So we're figuring out what's charging
this cube, some sort of body of I assume fresh water. Okay,
please continue. We're narrowing it down as.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
You go, and there is an I don't want to
give away all of the like things that happen. Obviously
obviously most of them are in the book, but there
is an incident that does occur that involves the water itself.
I mean, I guess I could say it's it caused

(22:05):
like a mask confusion in one of the investigators. When
he crossed the water, he forgot where he was and
he felt like he was in another place. So he
crosses the stream and he's one hundred percent sure, and

(22:28):
we've got the footage of that as well, where he's like,
I don't know where I am and they come get
him and he's like super excited about he thought he
found a second part of the meadow and they're like, trait,
you're literally where we like, he literally crossed the stream
and cross his back in the footage and he didn't
realize he did that. And then he took the rest

(22:51):
of the day off, I guess, and was like I
and he said when they told him that it was
the same place, he said, it felt like every and
shifted back and he was like hold on, Like it's
like I gotta take the day off like this.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
It's crazy because I'm pretty sure I know where this is.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Stop down for the audience. Not the audience is very smart.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Did you know that they retarded don't worry about them though,
but I know I could. I can figure out the
state that they're in at the very least, and if
they are close. This does run along somewhere near the
thirty third Parallel also shows up in a certain story
that I've been kind of obsessed with other horse Eyes,
very interesting stuff. Please continue, Wes, I'm I'm picking away

(23:38):
at this scap here. Go ahead, man, where are we
going next with this story?

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Because I'm yeah, So they have this incident with the cube,
but you said that two of them died.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yes afterwards, and of what uh one? I believe past
uh one was cancer, and we touch on that lightly
in the film, and the film is dedicated to both
of their memories. And so there's an investigator named Bob

(24:12):
Wilson passed cancer shortly after that, and then there's another
investigator named Tim who also passed away. I'm not one
hundred percent sure what, but I know it was not expected.
But it does seem like all of them, everybody that
is there investigating, is having some sort of long term

(24:32):
chronic health issue to varying degrees. And they now approach
this place differently, where the team's much larger than the
amount of people who are there in the film, but
they don't they cover it in teams over time, so
like in segments of the team. Right, So these people
are out here for this long and then they take

(24:54):
time off, and then the next crew comes in and
they stagger the amount of time they spend there.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Okay, in order to minimize the amount of exposure.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Let's say I think it, uh is that and one
of the things that Tray said was that they want
to give the environment time to breathe as well and
not wear it out.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
It's interesting.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Well, I think the reason, you know, I'm just gonna
come out and say it for the audience who's probably
putting this piece together as well, is oftentimes, in extreme
supernatural circumstances where there is a lack of tangible evidence
or or any sort of meaningful you know, material left behind,
what is left behind is traces of of you know, uh, radioactivity.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Let's say, well that's part of it as well, and
this is going to get interesting.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
So so obviously then the correlation that could be drawn
and and you know, outside of any real evidence, it's
just speculation. But given that that one of the investigators
unfortunately passes from from cancer. Uh, you can start to
draw that line of speculation. Was there some sort of
radioactive you know, reason for for cancer?

Speaker 1 (26:13):
And then yes, it's it. It asked the further question
of like, well, what exactly is radioactivity because it's like,
uh like extreme concentration of energy and uh in a
small area is what radioactivity seems like? And they've had
uh like.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
You'd say it's chaotic ionization, right Like, it's destructive, destructive energy,
right like, it's it's the way that the particles in
the in these atoms interact with the atoms around them.
That's why it essentially what radio like dangerous radioactivity. What
it does is it tears yourselves apart. It tears It's

(26:50):
like like like a wood chipper in the air.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
It's very uh yeah, and and like to speak to
that this We don't really focus too much on it
in the film, So I don't feel like it's spoiling anything.
One of the things that happens when these events happen
because they're doing all sorts of readings. They're they're measuring
electromagnet electromagnetic field, They're they have time displacement monitor to

(27:22):
see if time runs differently in between two locations, which
does happen there where? Like what why did the time meters?
Now they're one second off from each other, Like that's strange,
and that's a lot of time, Like that's a lot.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Of designed to be synchronized in RUSS in tandem so
that you can keep time.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, and they like they're connected by a cable like
there there, it's a long distance cable that are connecting
these two things. So they shouldn't they should be running
off the same thing that's running time right, But it's
like no time displacement meter, I believe is what it's called.
And then they're also doing big I don't think they're

(28:02):
Geiger counters, but they have something that reads the radiation levels.
And this is what I found, like when I was
going through the footage, because when we first when I
first received the project, I was like, Okay, I'm just
gonna watch all of this and try to get an
idea of what happened first of all, And when he said, yeah,
when these things happen, the radiation level jumps from the

(28:25):
baseline up to and he said it's always up to
point three three microceivers And I was like, well, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
Illuminati confirm, yeah, point three three micro And I wonder
what you know, I'm sure that's not something that would
really blow your hair back, but I wonder what that
would be comparable to being in the presence of what
does I mean it's Tony?

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Does Tony pick up on that? Because I was actually
having a conversation with him and came up, what was
the episode number that he had with the guy that
you love? You just absolutely love him. You just believe
everything he says Nathan Reynolds. I think it was episode
seven hundred and seventy.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Did I taste a hint of sarcasm?

Speaker 1 (29:11):
No, I believe, I like it. I think Nathan Reynolds
is legit. But David's just saying he's not sure. He's
not so sure. But I I, yeah, I brought up
I was like, oh, you know, episode seven seventy kind
of interesting, you know, like this is.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
Like the yea seventy and it was on the day
one of the seventh month of it, you know, and
it's just like, yeah, to be gay and numerological but Tony.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
But Tony was just like, I don't care. And I
was like, all right, so I guess you don't care
about but what though based.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, Kelly goes, I don't care that.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
No, So hold on, what didn't he care about.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
The fact that it was this seven hundred and seventieth
episode released on the first day of the seventh month, right, gotcha? Yeah,
and you know it's just like some little numerology, yeah,
winking and Tony Merkle could give less, couldn't give less
of a shade, and I appreciate that about it.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Did you care about the thirty third? And also did
you hear from any of the people that were there,
like actual tangible like did they feel anything tangibly, because
sometimes when you're in these places, you can, you know,
get it.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, so so they did, did say it felt strange
and it felt like static key like static electricity, kind
of like it was hard to put into words. And
and you know, I asked these questions in like those
interview segments with Tony, Joel and Ward like we I

(30:35):
was there to shoot those, and so we talked a
lot about it, and we even this isn't in the film,
but we shot like a round table of having them
discuss things. But I ultimately like made the decision. I
was like this doesn't this isn't adding to it, and
so we but we just cut that segment. But there

(30:56):
was a lot of like and we we kind of
made a decision to not speculate as to what it
is or why it is we and part of it
was because we just didn't feel that we had enough information,
so like, and that could have been something we did. Yeah,

(31:16):
well we do.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
We speculate endlessly with with next to zero information.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Well, the thing the thing about it is is that
there is no you can't really like end this right,
Like there's no if if a Fallen Angel came out
and was like I am such and such and I
this is my Yeah, like I would have been like, okay, cool,
we got it. Uh you signed this release Metatron, like

(31:42):
and uh, but we that didn't happen, right, So like
this is more about like what happened to this team
and and like I would say, one of the things
I'm trying to bring to these is because they've got
several films before I came on, and one one of
the things I want to bring on is like taking
the story that the film's about, but then having some

(32:05):
sort of like takeaway that has nothing to do with it.
Like specifically, like like, how what about this can you
apply to your own research? What about this can you take.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
Away about radiation poisoning?

Speaker 2 (32:18):
No, just like like in this one, it was about
what kind of person does this kind of work? Long term?
Take like you should not be going out into situations
like this if you're not wrapped in the armor of
the Lord, and if you're somebody who's like so like
the guy who does our visual effects, his name's Kent.
He also worked for Tim, did Tim's music videos with us.

(32:39):
He's he his job before like ten years ago or
fifteen years ago, as he was one of the editors
and filmers for Ghost Adventures and The Zach Beggins and
uh and he so he has some experience in this
type of space, but that space is obviously much different. Yes,

(33:03):
And but the point is that those shows like that
were like getting people to go That's why we have
so many ghost stunning channels, right because people out there
and they're like your ghost.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
Have you ever seen the way they do it in
like Japan, Japan and in any of the Muslim countries.
They will they like go in swearing and screaming, and
then you know they're very aggressive they like boot doors
open and shout a bunch of you know, insults at it,
and I go, that's a very interesting method. I don't

(33:36):
know that I would be immersed in what I was
convinced was real supernatural spiritual phenomenon and not eventually come
to the conclusion that I should probably align myself with
what is the more positive aspect of the supernatural phenomenon,
which would be, you know, aligning yourself with Jesus Christ.
It seems that these people never draw that correlation, or

(33:57):
I don't know if they can't, if they don't draw
that correlation, or they won't because if you're Zach Baggin's
and I'm only speculating here, but you have all this
apparatus built up, and you you know, he's the guy
that kind of dresses in like ed hardy jeans while
he's got something correct. Yeah, So something about ed hardy
jeans and ghost hunting just doesn't seem like it vibes
with the Lord. So I think it's bad for his brand,

(34:19):
or he perceives it to be bad for his brand,
and in that way, does not I guess, arm himself correctly.
And it's a real dangerous place to be that's an
interesting takeaway. Where are you in your spiritual journey if
you're in the woods on a regular basis searching for

(34:39):
ethereal cubes? Are you aligned with the Lord? Or are
you not? It might be better if you are.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
So that's the question that you're asking.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yes, well, no, I would say that's not even a
question I'm asking the it's more of a warning. Yeah,
it's a a teachable moment of like hey, and and
one of my observations personal observations is this stuff seems

(35:08):
to happen to people who are empty more often.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
And so like do you mean the the interacting with
the phenomenon or or having a bad outcome?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Uh, interaction? Because my whole philosophy on it is because
like I've this isn't the I didn't go to this place,
but I have been the idiot with a handicam in
the middle of the haunted place. Like actually, the first,
the very first Ghost Adventures was filmed in my hometown
at a Yeah, the movie, the one that came out

(35:43):
in like two thousand and three or four, was filmed
at Central State Mental Asylum, and I used to go
there all the time. Is it's it's gone now they
tore it down. But I used to go all the
time and uh, like like we split up and stuff,
and like I knew people that were like, this really

(36:04):
crazy thing happened to me, and I was always like,
it's crazy. Nothing ever happens to me. Nothing. And it's
not that I have no paranormal like experiences. In fact,
I just had one working on the film the other night.
It was two in one night. Actually it was very strange.
And this stuff does not happen to me, Like I'm
not so like I'll get there. And but my working

(36:31):
theory is that if you are rolling like with a
gang filled with the Holy Spirit, that those things don't
want that smoke, like.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
There's nothing to do there, there's no vessel to occupy.
In that case scenario, you get cast it out in
the name of the Lord.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, And like it's very hard to deceive because those
people are aware of the idea of testing the spirits
and because they're not there to like sure they'll like
tourre and scare people. They what they really want to
do is seduce and make you think that they are truth.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Or if they can do it on a minor level
and convince you that they are you. Yes, that's a
good place to start as well.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yes, and yeah, that's a big one. And but they
I don't think they can get away with that, and
in many cases they can. There's a lot of people
who are you know, like uh in scripture, like we
cast out demons in your name, flee from me. I
never knew you, And it's like there is something to
be said for that. But people who really are imbued

(37:34):
with the Holy Spirit and have a relationship with Christ,
like I don't think. I'm not saying nothing will ever
happen to those people and not saying that at all,
but I think the chances of them being enticed to
there's just no there there, you know, Like for them
it's like you don't if you're a salesman, you don't
walk into a neighborhood where you've already sold everybody on

(37:56):
whatever your product.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
Is, right, that's a great analogy or where.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Or where they're you know, bound up in a contract
with somebody else. Like I used to be a door
to door salesman for True Green and I would not
go into the neighborhood that Scott's Long Care had the
contract with the whole neighborhood. I would be like, but
there's no reason, like I can't do anything.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yeah, I want to ask you a question about the
nature and how it changes if you're in alignment with
the Holy Spirit versus if you are ghost hunting. Is
there still any value in going to these places, let's say,
under the context of gaining ground in spiritual warfare, Because

(38:36):
there's one aspect of going there for the entertainment value,
and there's another aspect of going there, and even on
the entertainment value, also informing people who are who are
viewers and who are listeners. But what about this idea
of engaging in spiritual warfare to win ground? Is that
applicable in you know, in your experience or in your estimation.

(38:58):
But before we go there, we're at the forty minute mark,
So everybody who's watching on x on Rumble and on YouTube,
we're cutting the stream now and we're going live exclusively
to patreon dot combackslash Nephlin Death Squad. So if you
don't have a membership over there, consider signing up for
the seven day free trial, and that way you can
at least get the rest of this conversation and hang
out in the live chat otherwise we will see you

(39:21):
guys later.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Goodbye.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
So Wes, you know there's a driving force to going
out to these locations. You said yourself that you used
to go to what was it like, the Asylum? And
I was a big fan of that. When I was
younger in New Jersey, we had Weird New Jersey was
a magazine series, a book series that would tell you
all the strange locations around New Jersey and we would

(39:46):
go and see these places. We'd go to, you know,
the Devil's Tree, and we'd go to all these different
There was one that I wanted to go to called
the Gates of Hell, which was in Clifton, New Jersey,
and you had to kind of navigate. I never went
there because of this, but you had to navigate a
sewer system and dependent upon when you went there, if
it was the rainy season, you'd be in some trouble, right,

(40:07):
the water would would well up on you and you
probably allegedly even had to go through a bit of
a submerged area to get to this spooky door. And YadA, YadA, YadA.
But there is this allure there and so at what
point do you think that is unhealthy? But then is
there a healthy version of it? Like I mentioned before,

(40:29):
going to these places to win ground in the name
of the Lord via spiritual warfare, does that apply at
all to what's happening.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
I think there is a reason. I think you are
much more at risk of something you're not aware of,
Like if you don't get a diagnosis with an illness,
you're much more likely to pass from it. And I
think that this is also and manifest itself as an illness. Right,

(41:03):
Like to go back to what I was saying about, like,
I don't want people to think that I was saying
that if you're wrapped in the armor of the Lord
when you go into these places, you're totally safe. I
don't think that's true. I think from Tony's own testimony,
that's not true. That these things they may not give
you what you're there to look for, but they may
follow you and affect you in in other ways put

(41:28):
a cloud over your head. I think we, like you guys,
are familiar with the story of when Tony went to
witness to that gentleman that he worked with, and then
he felt like he gave him whatever was with him
for a year.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
The huggy guy, the huggy guy.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
He just wanted a problem with three hugs.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, he actually I think that's a risk.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
He told me. He told me that story because I
had told him to ask him about something. Uh it's
similar to that, and uh it's it was interesting. They
seemed like there was like a transfer with that hug,
like a transfer of weird sexual energy, which is something
he doesn't mention on his show because it's like more
you know, it's family friendly. But the guy like kept

(42:15):
pressing his that area on him and I'm like, that's
really interesting, super interesting, like why that would why you
do do it that way?

Speaker 3 (42:25):
But yeah, not to get too into the well, I mean,
yea love portal, but I mean there is a reason
why people like Crowley and his I don't know followers
are so into sex magic, ritualistic sex magic. Right. There
is an energy exchange, a unique one that comes from

(42:46):
anything of the sexual variety. It's it's also why they
target children in that way, so unsurprising.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
I mean, I maintained that to us it's sex, to them,
it's something else, you know, to the to the other realm,
it is an alchemical process and it's just a means
of transference. Because that's what there is. It's transferring life energy.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Yes, there there's a but when you when you when
it's when it happens between two people that are in love,
a husband and a wife, that love aspect is something
totally like number one, incredibly powerful. But two, it can
be the purest form I mean, and I don't want
to call it magic, but I mean I guess in

(43:28):
some ways it is. And if it if it is
this incredibly powerful energy that's pure, and then the byproduct
of it, the fruits of it, are you know, a child. Well, yeah,
that's like the tip of the spear in regards to
what we can perform here. So to invert that and
then do things like try to bring in the moon
child and things like that into this realm uh that

(43:50):
all that all tracks. So yeah, I mean, it's it's
it's probably the most powerful form of magic that we're
capable of executing as as mortal beings. Here.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yes, it's imagine you know, you're we're all made in
the image of God, right, but then each of you,
each of us, is imbued with fifty percent of the
ability to create another being made in the image of God.
Like that's pretty pretty crazy. It's crazy that we take
it for granted.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
You know, it's will that we've lost that when you
put it that way, I mean, it's massive.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
But yeah, we really really like if you color it
that way, which I think one should, it really makes
you know, like abortion and.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Seem like that's exactly where my life was going.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Is like you're really messed up.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know, and then you look
at what our society has done and the way that
we've normalized it, encouraged it and called it a right,
called it liberation when it is I mean, it's a liberation.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
But sure, abortion man.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
It's an interesting conversation going around on Twitter right now
between it's Andrew Tate and the other guy from Fresh
and Fit, and they're talking about the idea of monogamy,
like you know, you got to have multiple partners, you
have to have multiple wives. Women are just vessels to
be filled with your cum. And I'm just like, this
dude is such a I enjoy Yeah, I enjoy him.

(45:09):
I think he's funny, but I'm like, this is so
dangerous to uh, like just the male American, the young
American male. It's like this ideology that you're talking about like, yeah, sure,
you're right, like you're never ending satiation for sexual desire
is real, but you're just going to like fill that

(45:31):
with anyone that's will It's it's a crazy concept. And
they're like, you're gay, you should have more have more
sex with random women. I'm like, okay, okay, dude, I
don't think that's.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
The It's the mirror image of the feminist movement, right,
free sex and and all of that no accountability and
YadA YadA, YadA, Like it's the exact thing. It's just
feminism for men, which is when you put it that,
more people should be putting it that way. Do as men,
do we really want meninism? Do we want feminism for me?
You want to talk about Hey, so okay, all right, but

(46:03):
but getting back to this, uh, this discussion, I did
want to ask something and then you know, if we
can figure out where the hell we were on the tracks,
just for clarification purposes, when we earlier mentioned that that
two people passed away, one of them from cancer or
the other one untimely, these were two individuals that were

(46:24):
seen sort of blipping off the radar in the infrared.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Ye the same the thermal.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yeah, the thermal, the thermal. Okay, I just wanted to
because I wasn't sure if that was just investigators that
were on site or if that was literally two of
the individuals that would have disappeared off thermal temporarily and
then reappeared.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yep. Man, Yes, and they're the two that, unless I'm mistaken,
because this is when you're looking at thermal, a human
being is just a white spot. So but they kind
of went, you know, like you've got three of them,
and they kind of went like that. So one went
deeper in or one went more like not as far

(47:06):
in as the other two. And they like, there's a
daytime recreation where they show where they walked and where
they stood so that you could see that they're still there,
and it h I think that kind of lends to it.
So like the two that went deeper in or the
two that.

Speaker 3 (47:25):
You know, what do you think, Wes? I mean, are
you yourself interested in going to these places? Not really really?

Speaker 2 (47:35):
And I went to I went to we've got another
film coming like that.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
I haven't been started again, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Well I went and the one that we shot a
film in June and we went to this location, and
I don't know what Tony has said about it, so
I'm not going to say what the film is or
where it took place. But it is a story you
guys have all heard of for sure. It's a legend
that we would to like look into a famous one

(48:05):
and uh Ill, what I'll I'll say about is I
expected it to be a lot worse than I was,
like just the environment and while there were definitely elements
of like creep factor I expected to be like, there
were definitely things that happened that I was like, I

(48:28):
don't like this because we slept in it, and we
slept in tents for six days straight, and.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
I didn't six, I'll camp for two days, We'll have
a two day I'll you know, I mean like, I'll
show up on day one, sleep in a tent on
day you know, that night, and then I'll leave the
next day.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
But I didn't. I enjoyed the camping and camaraderie and
brotherhood aspect of it, but it was June, so like
at night it was very cold, and so I slept
in my clothes, was in my coat. But then I
would wake up and it would be eighty degrees and
I would be like, and my tent was like my

(49:07):
tent was like dark, dark brown. So it's like pulling
in all the heat. It's like this is awful.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
And also I'm the biggest person there and are you
a giant? I'm six four and a half. Yeah, what is.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Why do we why do we just have a face
of a baby?

Speaker 2 (49:26):
I know, baby almost I'm string being though, like I
look like I look like a normal person that somebody
grabbed the middle of it stretch.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
It seems like all we do is talk to tall people.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Were kind, but but I had the smallest tent, like
I was sleeping. It was one of those square tents
and I was sleeping corner to corner. Yeah, but uh
but no, like I didn't. I expected the area we
were in to feel a lot more oppressive than it did.
And and I think part of it was because the

(49:58):
people we talked to. We talked to all a lot
of people that investigate there all the time, and they
were like, I would literally not like, do not sleep here,
Like they're like, don't do this. All of them warned us.
And even before we went, we were like, yeah, everybody
we talked to is saying like, do not do this
most there have been a lot of people who tried
to stay there, and then nobody stayed on the property

(50:20):
overnight that we went to, ever, and we were like, well,
here we go, you know, and yeah, like we we Yeah,
it just I think it was what I was saying before,
is like that little campground was like a patronus charm,
and it was like, we aren't going over there, and

(50:44):
and like that's not to say that nothing weird happened,
but all the things that weird that were happening around
us were happening way over there, like way over there,
and it was like it was trying to get I'll
say that, it was like it was trying to get
one person to go out there alone.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Interesting. Interesting, that's actually uh you know a technique that
you see in these movies. Yeah, what I mean, it's
like somebody goes out into the woods they're camping, and
then this thing will drag them away or lure them
out into.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
It's very fun to go stuff.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Right, Yes, yes, So the reason that I was asking
is because we had an offer to go out to
some place and I don't know, I mean, it's it's
the twenty second today. I mean, I guess, you know,
in the realm of possibilities, it could still happen. But
it's it's it's out in Utah, and it's one of
the many properties that are sort of Skinwalker Ranch adjacent Wolf. No,

(51:39):
it's not space Wolf, it's moon Lake. Moon Lake, Okay,
and uh and so but I did have so you know,
when you when you look into it, it's done by
I forget what the name of the person is. But
there's like a treasure aspect, like treasure hunting is part
of this whole thing. And then of course Jones Terry Jones. Yeah, yeah,
so so there's all this obvious, you know, high strangeness

(52:00):
as well. And I did have this, like, you know,
I had a dream. I don't know, I had this
weird dream where I found myself in a place that
I was invited to and there was like it was
a you know, there was other people were also invited
to this place I don't know, and it was kind
of like a mansion, not really a mansion, it was
just AnyWho. When I was there, I suddenly had discovered

(52:23):
that I stepped into.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
The wrong place. You're telling a dream story right now.
I'm telling a dream story.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
But so so I had I had realized that I
was in the wrong place, and in the dream, I
managed I managed to pull up some details that I
had overlooked on my phone, and the details had something
to do with like grays and and you know, their involvement,

(52:50):
and so I immediately first thing, I realized I had
my gun on me, and I was really pumped about that.
And then the second thing in the dream, I started
praying the lot of Jesus over me and the people
that I had come with, and it felt like almost
this not a hostage situation, but like it was late.
We were supposed to be winding down for bed, and

(53:11):
all of a sudden, now the next thing was we
got to get the hell out of here. And so
I'm like, you know, some dreams are just dreams, right,
you just sometimes you just have dreams about silly stuff.
And maybe this thing was on my mind, But I'm
kind of going back and forth between that, like, is
there a benefit to me going out to Moonlake and

(53:31):
having some potential experience there. Everybody knows about the hitchhiker
effect or anything, and I'm no stranger to odd occurrences
and entities and things like that, but I don't know.
I mean, what would at this point, given where you
are in your career. I mean, you're making documentaries about
these things. Is this something that you would move towards.

(53:52):
I'm sure you guys get a lot of offers. I'm
sure Tony gets a lot of offers to come out
and see this bizarre location. Doesn't seem like he's shying
away from me. I don't know, do you guys weigh
that anymore? Or is this just we are in alignment
with the Holy Spirit and therefore we can go and

(54:12):
do these things.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
That's a great question, because so this past one, the
one I was just talking about, if the way it
was pitched to me to go out there. First of all,
it was not supposed to go out there, and then
they ended up needing me. And then and also Aaron,

(54:36):
you guys know Aaron, my business partner. He also went
and this is not his realm, Like he's he's an
interesting cat. You guys should talk to him. He's a
Russian Orthodox, very unique person, and he was like, this
is not my world. He was like, I like working
on these projects, but he's not into the WU and stuff.

(54:57):
He's just he's a very well guy, and when I
told him what the pitch to the pitch was, We're
going to go to a place and confront a demon.
And I was like, no, thanks, not interested, not interested.
And I toiled with it for weeks because originally when

(55:23):
I was supposed to go, we were going to go
a month earlier, and so I had one week to
think about it, and I had already agreed to do it,
but I was really struggling with it. Then I got
moved back a month and I started to think, oh,
maybe I won't have to go after all, and that
would be awesome, even though it's one of those things
where it's like, if you excise the demon part, I'm

(55:47):
in I'm one hundred percent, I'm on camping, I'm in
on hanging out with my friends, I'm making a film,
I'm all. And then it was like, yeah, we're going
to go specifically do this.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
I was like, to cast out the demon, not.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Confront. I'll say front, yes, yes, because it can't get it.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
I mean, so it's just in a house and you're
gonna go confront. It seems kind of like a douchebag move.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
It's it's not a house, all.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
Right, Um, break that down right, that down.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Not a house, but you once once. I don't know
if Tony's put it out there. If I get the
okay to put it out there, I'll put out there.
But but you'll hear it from him obviously. But it
it is, And this thing covers a lot like this
next film, I mean started it editing wise, Yeah, but
it covered We cover a lot of ground. We we saw,

(56:48):
like the guy who owns the place that we were
at has a lot of evidence. Let's just say that
a lot like I think we looked at twelve hundred photographs.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Twelve hundred photograph of of of orbs or of of
what are we talking about here?

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Not orbs, you'll and nobody's these have not been made public.
I do not believe so stuff you won't you'll like
really like there's a lot of like really really because
like we filmed an entire like interview with him, and
he had a screen was showing them and we were like,
this is too much, this is too much.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Without giving away too much, do we have any sort
of bipedal anything that looks like a figure that people
would be familiar with at the very least, you know, Okay.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Yeah, yeah, there's some weird stuff of what. I can't
say the name of the thing because that'll.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Give the the entity.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Yeah, I can't give the name the names of the place.
That's interesting that Yes, the name the location is the
name of the the it's gonna be the name of
the documentary.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
It's gonna be give it away.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah. Sorry, I.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Don't read the chat.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Some of them are hilarious, man, but uh no, it's
it's yeah. I I there's a lot of these places
that I definitely want to go to. There's a lot
of them I don't. But it's funny you say, like
when you said, like, how do you feel about this?
Even for this the I'm going to tell you about

(58:35):
a dream. But while I worked for Tim, So, while
I worked for Tim, I lived with Aaron actually like
uh and another coworker. We had like a townhouse and
we lived on an Air Force training ground.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
And so twice, two times, two times I saw at
the Black Triangle. One time I was driving and I
was at the Jefferson County Fairgrounds in West Virginia, and
it's a long stretch of middle of nowhere right and
then in my rearview mirror was three white lights, and

(59:21):
I just pulled over to the side of the road
and when I went to look, it went around to
the front of my car. It went hmm. And I
had already seen it once, but I didn't realize that
it was it. I thought it was a a power
line with a light with lights on it. Yeah, and

(59:42):
it was just sitting here because that's how high it was.
It wasn't that high. It was really low. And then
what I saw in my mirror, I thought it was
a C seventeen because that's what the training facilities for
is they fly Sea seventeens, and those things are really
big there. They're transport planes, right, and well, I guess
every plane is a transport plane, but they're like large

(01:00:02):
equipment transport planes, like they carry planes inside of them. Yeah,
and and they they they take off like literally a
football field away from my apartment. So when they take off,
it like rattles the whole, you know, house. And so
when they're close, you know they're close, You're they're not

(01:00:23):
sneaking up on you, like a C seventeen can't sneak
up on you. This thing was dead silent, dead silent,
and it moved. It was probably forty feet above the
crown and it's moved from one side of my card
to the other. I immediately called Tony and immediately called Shane.
I was like, guys, it's here, and like, I've never

(01:00:45):
thought that those were alien. I've never thought the black
triangles are alien. I've always thought that they were like
clandestine military. Yes, and that just given my location, that's
what I thought. But after this, after seeing the Black
Triangle the two times and it was in really close proximity.

(01:01:05):
One was in like February and the next one was
in like April, I started having really bad night tears
and I've never had those before in my life. I've
never had sleep prousies. I've never had anything like that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
And after seeing this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Yes, and so the one the ones that I remember,
and it was not like you know, once a month,
it was like every night I was having a night
terere and it was in my room. And the two
that I always had. One was I was always being
wrapped up by a snake, like I was being coiled,

(01:01:42):
like constricted by a snake, and then I would wake
up with no breath and like I attributed that to
you because I have sleep apnea, like pretty bad. I
got a seatpap machine all of that, and I attributed
to me not being able to breathe and it's constricting me,
and so I was like, that's a weird way to
manifest that. Then it evolved into the snake would have

(01:02:04):
me and then I would it would disappear, and I
would look out my window. So I had like my
bed and my window is right to the like foot
the right side foot of my bed, and I would
look out there and there'd be three grays in the
window looking at me, and every time they would start
to put their hand through the glass like it wasn't there.
And I would wake up screaming the Lord's name like

(01:02:28):
every time, and I would actually say it because I
lived with my fiance at the time, and she would,
you know, eat it like because I would sleep during
the day sometimes and she would run down the stairs
and be like, well, you were screaming the name of Jesus,
like interesting, and she was like, so I thought I'd
come check on you. And even at night she would

(01:02:50):
like wake me up from screaming that and be like
it's okay, it's okay, and I would scream snake, I
would scream that. And then one time I did have
a dream that I was inter in brain like mine
speak with a sasquatch and really.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Yeah, and is this around the same time frame?

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
Yeah, all this happened in the same exact time frame,
like within one month, like every night for a month. Yeah.
And then we moved.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
What are you talking to the sasquatch about?

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
I don't remember. I don't remember that she but she
said I was in my This is the funny part
because to her this is funny to be it's terrifying,
is that she said I woke her up going. I
was like, that's that's weird. That's weird. I was in
my sleep. Yeah, and and like gibber japping, like fucked

(01:03:53):
up Wesley. But like I don't like until like later,
you know, I got was like, this is just really
weird dreams I'm having. And then but when I left
that that house and we moved to a completely different area,
it all stopped.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
When Tim moved his compound or something you moved as well. Yeah, okay,
so it started off when you saw this uh triangular
aircraft like you you would say, it's a one person
aircraft that kind of floated by you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
It was the size of a bus, like like three
buses at a triangle.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
Did this strike like military craft or something?

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
Outside of it?

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Okay? So yeah, yeah, And I lived one hundred yards
from the military aircraft training facility, like I like they
had a breakfast cafe there that I went and ate
at the weekends. You could watch the planets.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
A common right, black triangle military craft. I forget what
it is, but it's now been.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Yeah, the t R three B, Well there's the B.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
To spirit and then there's something else. Uh B two
spirit has sort of a jagged back into it. But
there's another one. I forget what it is, black R
three right, Oh yeah, t R three a black manta.
I'm sure TR three B is a very similar version.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Do you remember. So this is what made it stand
out to me when I saw it and why I
contacted Tony.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
This is a banger. This is because of shirt question
UAP pilot and training. I got another question before you
go on, though, where do you put this? Where do
you put that kind of phenomenon? Because now you're pretty
sure it's coming from a military base, which is human,
but you're having supernatural experiences because of it. You think
it's the technology that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
I don't know, like, I don't know what to tribute
it to. But the irony of it that it was
there is so you you top you've been.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
To the castle, the old one, the first one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Yeah, the the how the mansion. So did do you
remember did you come in on a really long bridge?
There's a really long bridge that leads to it, so like,
and that bridge is where I don't know if you remember,
there's an episode of The Confessionals where a guy called

(01:06:21):
in to say him and his dad saw the triangle
on a bridge in a certain location. His name, I'm
not gonna say his name because people will go find
the episode and you'll say where it is, and I,
but that's the same location.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Do you remember to realize that we were talking to
Nathaniel Gillison and he is. He describes it as the phenomenon, right,
and that the phenomenon takes all these different, uh sort
of visages, and so there's clearly a shape shifting aspect.
We talked to Jewels of the Great Pilled podcast and
we talked quite a bit about Tulpa's or thought forms,

(01:07:00):
which in some ways kind of sounds reductive in that
it reduces the experience to something that's generated by your
own mind. I don't think that's the case at all.
In fact, it sounds much more like the more that
you can focus on a thing, the more you can
flesh that idea out, the more that you can then
create a sort of dummy for these things to inhabit,

(01:07:22):
which might explain sort of like the slender Man phenomenon
right where it enters Internet lore in a big way,
creepy pastas it becomes so popularized that all of the
focus on it gives a temporary vessel, let's say, for
something to manifest in. I'm wondering if we have, and

(01:07:43):
this is totally schizo speculation, integrated our technology so intimately
with the supernatural realm, because it seems that a lot
of our technology is inspired, you know, by supernatural entities,
you know, the muses and things like that. The example
I like to give is Carlos Santana channeling Metatron, which

(01:08:05):
he gives up that juice in a Time magazine interview.
I believe, so we have a long history of people
channeling entities to create things, whether it's art or even
technology or things of that nature. So what if the
integration between certain levels of military technology and the supernatural

(01:08:26):
realm has become so seamless that focusing on that technology
and thinking about it is looking into the phenomenon, and
the phenomenon then begins to look back at you. Because
a lot of that like staring into the abyss until
the abys stares back at you. It is hyper fixation
on the supernatural commonly can lead to the supernatural manifesting

(01:08:50):
in some way, shape or form, poltergeist activity, you name it,
sleep paralysis, YadA, YadA, YadA. And it almost doesn't seem
to make sense because what you're looking at is interpreted
as a nuts and Bolt's aircraft. But what if the
way that that nuts and Bolts aircraft came to be
in this physical realm was first by some sort of
supernatural influence and that the there's not really a separation

(01:09:12):
there between what you saw and I'm sure after you
saw that that was something that you know, you were
pretty enamored by for for quite some time. Right, So
now you're focusing on the phenomenon as as Nathaniel Gillis
would put it, And.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
What's that I took a video as well. I can
send you Oh it's far away, but if once I
realized what it was, got it, I'll send you that.
But I agree with you. I I believe that there's yeah, like,
if you're back engineering spiritual technology, it's going to have
spiritual implications.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Right right, right right, So I think that that's probably
what's happening there, and that's why the same thing happens
where you don't you know, you have this a holes
ce five app and everybody's calling you know, these orbs
or these these craft too, and then what do they
get after that? They get all kinds of poltergeist activity
in their homes and this overlap between what was just

(01:10:08):
ups and now.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
We've got a segment in the Metal Project just for
what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Interesting interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
So so what do you make of that? Do you
think that there's there's any validity to that? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I And like I don't part. I know,
I agree with you because I don't think on I
try not to think on those dreams.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Anymore because instinctually.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Yes, because when I because I was at the time,
like I was thinking a lot about that, I was
thinking a lot about what I saw. I was thinking
a lot about what it meant I was thinking a
lot about what the dreams made me feel, and it
felt like they kept getting worse and worse and worse.
And we had so like what I can say is

(01:10:56):
when when we moved, the dreams stopped, but waking things
started happening there. And that's when I kind of took
a step back and I was like, I'm gonna stop
giving energy to this because I think that whatever is
making this happen to us is because of something I'm doing.

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
And so we had and like Tony Tony Old Tony
and Shane, if you guys talk to them, will verify this,
Like we had talk to them a lot about like
what do we what do we do? Ah? And there
were there was strange stuff that like I was not
having the dreams anymore, but where there were strange things
happening in our house and then suddenly they all stopped

(01:11:48):
and it never happened again. And I don't know exactly
what changed, but I felt like I stopped giving my
attention to things that I thought would do that. So
I think you're it's a and that's kind of the
observation we make in this film, which to bring it
back is like these things are trying to establish a conversation,

(01:12:12):
and if you take part in the conversation, it's gonna
go places.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
One of these one of these images that's flashing over
my shoulder. It's called the top lops as dog Man,
and it's a joke that we say, where I go
and I put my birds away at night, and it's
a pretty far walk to their their coup back there,
and when it's dark, I turn around and I walk back,

(01:12:37):
and I have this feeling on my neck that is
like something is there, but I never look. I don't stop,
I don't turn around, I don't run. I walk back,
I shoulders back and I walk back normally. And the
idea is top lops of dog man. It does not
exist if you do not lay eyes upon it, if

(01:12:59):
I don't turn around and feed that thing whatever that
is in superposition, Yes, exactly, he exists, but then he
doesn't exist. He's always in a state of standing and
I know exactly where he is. He's on the fence.
Motherfucker's on the fence right behind going into the wild area,
and he's like, you know, eight feet tall, and he's
just and he's waiting because if I turn around. He's like,

(01:13:21):
I will disembowel you. But I never turn around because
I was like, there's no reason you don't exist.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
It's sort of like it's sort of like a mobster,
where if you don't see the crime, they don't have
to kill you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
Exactly exactly. When I was younger, I used to have this.
One of my best friends was like, why do you
think of Bigfoot like this? And I was like, well,
we were sitting on a corner one day and it
was nighttime and we're talking about Bigfoot. We're a real
little like maybe ten or eleven, and I said, ye,

(01:13:49):
imagine Bigfoot, like, look all the way down the street
under the street lamp and imagine seeing the silhouette of
a thing that is, you know, ten feet tall, bright
red eyes, and it's you know, eathing heavy and da
da da dah. And and he's like, why do you
why would you ever think of Bigfoot like that? And
I was like, why wouldn't. It's it's a bipedal, you know,

(01:14:10):
at the at the least, an animal, a bipedal animal
that's that's ten feet tall. And I said, imagine it,
you know, letting out this blood curdling scream or whatever.
And I just never was able to get behind the
idea of Bigfoot as being like a anything other than
absolutely terrifying. So, I mean, I've been around you never
go to the zoo and be around a bison. Have

(01:14:34):
you ever been around a bison? It's like a breathing car.
It's kind of horrifying when you're next to it, because
it's like something about it's it's life, it's breathings to
your core. Yeah, a horse will do the same thing.
If you're you're like, what the ship is this so.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Much smaller?

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
You're like, I don't like that you're that much bigger.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
Than It's really really, really terrifying. So all right, there's
a lot of places that I want to go with
this conversation, but we have to get to what in
the hell because earlier you alluded to a raven mocker
or a crow mocker and how that applies to this
entire situation. Know that that's where I want to go
next west, But I can't not ask you mhm. Given

(01:15:18):
the nature of the conversation, focus begets a two way
sort of focus. What are you doing? Well?

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
So one more one more thing? What as you said
in your waking life. Oh, things start to happen, Like
I gotta know what thing?

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
What is the waking thing?

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
So so we moved into this house in like outside
Harper's Ferry and uh it was my former fiance and
I and we started, like the first night we were there,
we started having weird things happened, and like at first,

(01:15:57):
we're like this place is old and like falling apart right.
We were like we were like trying to figure out
like is there something and like are there raccoons in
the crawl space? Are there raccoons in the not attic?
But it's like where in the roof, you know. And

(01:16:18):
we started doing Bible study, and so we were sitting
in the living room and the how the house was
set up was sort of like the living room was
one side of the house and there were two bedrooms
on the other side of the house, split down the middle, right,
And we're in the living room and the door was

(01:16:38):
open to our bedroom and my dog Charlie was in there,
laying in the bed, just being a dog, and we
were reading Genesis. We were starting with Genesis, and at
one point I paused and asked her a question. I
was like, what do you think about this passage. And

(01:17:01):
we both heard my voice come out of the bedroom.
Oh damn it, dude, And well that's the thing is
we both heard it, and we looked at each other and.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
No, I mean to set the dog that you have
with you right now. I can hear he started whining
as soon as you said that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Yeah, yeah, he's in a crazy so he might have
to come out for a minute and sit on my
lap if that's.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Okay, whatever whatever you gotta do.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
But but yeah, so we went in there and Charlie,
my older dog, was sitting there looking up at the bed,
and we were like all.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
Right, looking up at the bed or looking up at
the ceiling.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
At the bed, like as if I say, I have
no yeah, I have no idea. It was it was
like it was talking to her right. It was like
I was talking to her as like I was saying, like,
do you want to go out? I'm gonna grab him
one second?

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. You know why
that's uh When I was living in uh this other
house we moved to when I was like fifteen years old,
and I had an American bulldog, which is like big
bulldog with abs and such and he one night I

(01:18:09):
was just mentioning, Michael, it's such a that's right. I
saw the pictures. You let her in, You let the
fat it's a fat cow cat keep screaming to come in.
So so uh he's My dog is sat in the

(01:18:29):
in the hallway outside of my room, and he just
keeps like staring at the drop down for the ladder
that leads up into the attic, and he'll sit there
and he'll stare at it, and then all of a
sudden he'll get up and his hackles will raise and
he'll start like growling and barking at it, and then
he'll sit down and get real docile again, and then
he would just do that rinse and repeat. And I'm

(01:18:51):
laying on my bed and I'm aware that this is
happening and it's upsetting me. And above my bed, directly
above my face is a vent to my attic, and
I'm just staring at that, wondering like what in the hell.
And in that house, after I moved out, my mother
would tell me that she would hear the feet of
like something tiny but bipedal running through sounded like a

(01:19:11):
lot of them running through the house, jiggling door handles
opening doors. One case in particular, my mother is in
the room and my stepdad is in the bathroom. He's
brushing his teeth and they hear and then something jiggles
the handle and opens the door. And the response that
they had was it's like like there was an intruder.

(01:19:34):
So my mom shot up in the bed and looked
over to the door, and my stepdad came running out
with toothpaste on his mouth, and and they're both looking
like for an intruder because it wasn't a did you
hear that moment? It was somebody's in the house and
they just opened the door moment. And the dogs. By
this time, the American bulldog had passed, so there's just

(01:19:55):
she has friend. Sheies French bulldogs, and they're all stood
up on the bed too, you know, in this mode
where they're getting ready to bark and they're growling at whatever.
Just open this door and there's nothing there. And I
always felt really unsettled in that house. We had an Elmo,
a tickle Me Elmo in that house that my mom
was huge, huge mistake. So she would get the dogs

(01:20:17):
all kinds of like stupid toys, you know, and Tickle
me Elmo. By the time we had gotten ready to
trash him, he had this, you know, the fur ripped
off his face. So it's just tickle me Elmo's animatronic
skeleton is exposed. And uh. And for whatever reason, no
matter what you did, if you took the batteries out
of him, I threw him down the stairs into the basement.

(01:20:40):
I took the batteries out because I'm trying to watch
a movie and he and he's his voice is all
distorted because a dog screwed him up and he's going
the tickles and he just but the batteries aren't even
in him. And until the point where we had up
in the backyard, so weird house. Weird house. But yet
animals have a way of of knowing. Uh. And it

(01:21:03):
sounds like you're you had a little dappleganger situation going
on there with.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
It was strange and and there are a couple of
like other things that happened, and then it just started
to peter off. And yeah, then I guess I took
my attention off of it and it just stopped happening.
It just I don't know. There was a lot more
scripture reading now, so maybe that had something to do

(01:21:30):
with it, but but yeah, no, I don't know. I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
I don't know what to make of that because I agree, like.

Speaker 2 (01:21:39):
It's hard to think of it in a like and
explain it because these things happened to you while your
life's happening, right, Like they happen and you come home
from work and it's like this, I hear me in there,
you know, like and what do you do with that?
And like I haven't really reflected on it for that,

(01:22:00):
you know, Like I've talked about it a couple of times.
I talked about it on Inverted World when I was
on there and back like last year, and I don't know,
maybe go find that if you're watching this and want
to know more, because I was a lot closer to
it at the time. It was like happening concurrently when
I was on there, But yeah, I just stopped paying

(01:22:22):
attention to it. And I, like I said, I don't
have a history of these things happening. I don't have
a like ghost story for every year of my life
or anything. But it's weird times in my life where
this stuff that I can't explain seems to happen, Like
I alluded to earlier, like something happened last week when

(01:22:43):
I was working on the film, and like I put
out a work cut of it and just minutes were
missing from it. I was like, that's weird. That doesn't
make sense. And then I started thinking about it. I
was like, Okay, that same night was a night that
I did have the dogs staring at the ceiling like
you were saying, and they but they like looked in

(01:23:03):
both in tandem with.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
It's not good. Well, I mean, at the very least
you got.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
Rid of well well maybe, but not possible where that happened.
And then later the same night, I was sitting It's okay, buddy, sorry,
I was sitting here and right in right here, right here,
I had a grocery bag that had some just odds

(01:23:30):
and ends in it, and it was sitting and like,
have you ever put a bowl inside of a paper
bag and it goes like that? You know, like you're
going to go to a cookout or something and you
put like your pitch in inside the paper bag and
it you're like, nope, this doesn't fit in this bag. Yeah, well,
I'm sitting there and this had like it didn't have
a bowl in it, it didn't have It had like

(01:23:51):
some papers in it, like a couple of paperscuse I
had taken most everything out, so I had like there
was a receipt in the bottom, and there was like
a letter that was unfolded in there, some stuff I'm
going to throw up, right, And it's sitting there, mostly
empty and out of my peripheral. I'm sitting in my
chair over there. The thing goes whoo and spreads open
like that, and Heiser is sitting on the bed and

(01:24:13):
he looks at it and perks up, and I just
out of the corner of my eye look at it,
and I didn't want to turn my head, but I
looked out and as soon as I looked at it,
it held for like a second and a half and
then went.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
And I was like, that's weird. And then it was
later that night that my something happened to my unit,
my my computer, like the editing bay. I was like,
this doesn't make sense, Like what happened in the film
is impossible, is impossible. So it's moments of the film
were missing that I couldn't have I couldn't have gotten

(01:24:49):
rid of them because I'm sure you guys are familiar
with premiere, like when you lock and nest a section
and you have the nests within another sequence, you cannot
edit them without opening and unlocking that sequence. But it
was just moments of those sequences were just gone. I
had to re edit them and add them back in.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
Interesting anything significant in those sequences.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Uh, kind of not not something not not what you
would think, but they were They were key moments. But
they weren't like evidence or something like that. They were
just key moments of the narrative. And they were parts

(01:25:33):
that were laborious, So there were there were parts that
had lots of effect work because we have a lot
of visual effects in this, and those moments were like
chopped down.

Speaker 3 (01:25:44):
What's interesting about that is is it doesn't have to
be like a key moment in the sense of like
some big reveal that might you know, gain you insight
a lot of you You only need to look at
like the Skinwalker ranch story and whatever Poultergeist activity that
they were experiencing there, and poultrygeis activities is kind of

(01:26:04):
like a general term just for you know, seemingly mysterious
events happening that are unexplainable. They were having just inconveniences
take place, like some of their equipment ended up in
a tree, ye like, and it was like for it
to get all the way up in the tree, and

(01:26:25):
it's like it didn't even make any sense. Oftentimes people
refer to these things as like trickster spirits and shit
like that, and people who are much more like New
Age Woo woo are into like DMT. We'll talk about
like the the the elves, the machine elves, and how
they have like this gesture nature there does seem to
be Honestly, I was actually somebody said something and I

(01:26:46):
was like, oh my god, I can't ignore that, which
is like I am a bit of a troll on Twitter,
and but even that word like the spirit of what
you're doing like trolling, right, what one Norwegic belief system
calls a troll is through another lens, some sort of

(01:27:08):
a demonic spirit.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
And I'm like, damn it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
Dude, I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Those it's all joker exactly. But at the same time,
like I feel like being afraid of those terms gives
them power to you know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
I mean, it's not that I'm afraid of it, but
I'm like, oh, that's interesting because I'm even I'll even
call myself a troll. And it's like, when you're doing that,
what are you? What are you actually saying? So that
sort of inexplainable inconvenience is something that is uh par
for the course that's that's on brand. You see it

(01:27:48):
in a lot of things, especially like the polter geyst activity,
like you know, the Poulter Guy's activity for example, What
what evil is it that opens up your drawers and
cab and it's is it like this big? You know,
as it's stune in the way, is it? Is it?
It'll leave you sitting there scratching your head as to
the mystery of it all. Why has this happen? Why

(01:28:10):
go out of your way to open up all my cabinets?
All you've done here is confuse me and made, you know,
inconvenience my life slightly not something that can't be overcome.
But it feels like what you experience was the digital
version of opening up all your cabinets.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
Yeah, which is funny because like that the idea is
like they're opening the doors in your house to confuse you,
So they open the doors in your soul like right
a state in.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
That or are they just like this is gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
Well, I want you to be unsettled, because an unsettled
person is an open vessel. Like yeah, and and you know,
like they want to make you question yourself, They want
to make you not sure, they want to make you,
you know, you weaken the the prey before you take
it down.

Speaker 3 (01:29:01):
It's something that I have to think about. And I
know we're not going to get any answers here, but
you know, just on this topic of like looking into
things and what does it mean that it starts to
look back and interact back? Is this your cue to stop?
Or you know, if you look at the ripple effect

(01:29:22):
of looking into these things, for example, how many people
do these documentaries reach? How many people do these episodes reach?
And how many people does that then turn over to Christ?
Because that's what we do constantly is we'll go look
at this really strange thing, here's our take on it,
and here's ultimately what's important is developing a relationship with

(01:29:44):
God and you know, repenting and and you know Jesus
Christ is the way the narrow path and so are
you meant to And this is just me musing, but
it's like, are you meant to stop? Looking at these things?
Are you, And I'm not saying look into them to
the point where now you're some sort of like numerologists

(01:30:05):
or some crap, and you're applying this in your everyday life,
trying to rig the system and you know, bend it
to your will. That's clearly not what I'm saying. But
it's like, you look into the phenomenon, as Nathaniel Gillis
puts it, and then and the phenomenon looks back takes
a form of whatever tulpa or something like that. It
has its old tricks, it has some some tricks that

(01:30:28):
are adapted to you. And is that what it wants?
It's for you to stop looking at it.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
Yeah, the the idea of fear not right. We talk
about that a lot. But then when I see what
Merkele does with these documentaries, I instantly think, not me,
not gonna do.

Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
That, because it's gonna catch me in the woods.

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
It just feels like like at what at what point
is provocation and at what point is faith? You know
what I'm saying. And then also, but if you pull
to do it, and it's been loud and clear in
your head to do this thing, then I understand that
which is something that like, you know, me and David
were talking about a couple of weeks ago. It's like,
are you cold? Are you cold to do this? Because

(01:31:11):
it seems like a dangerous thing if my assumptions are
correct about some of the consequences that I've received for
even being next to this person. Should we you know
you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:31:24):
Should you then go and tempt this? These are questions
that I can't answer. I don't think. I don't think
anyone could really answer it. It's a personal thing.

Speaker 3 (01:31:33):
I know, that's what it gets though. I know that's
you want to talk about the fruit that a thing
bears when the phenomenon starts looking back at you. I know,
generally speaking, you know, most people go, I got I
just want to, like, like, you know, when I had
my whole experience, and I didn't tell my wife and
I because I didn't want to talk about it, because

(01:31:54):
I didn't think that I distinctly felt like talking about
it and engaging in anything surrounding it was going to
make it worse. Right, similar to the instinct that you had, Wes,
I felt just instinctively the same way. And is that
instinct or does this thing want you to feel that
way where it wants to scare you out of and

(01:32:18):
then yeah, to Top's point, right, fear not. The Bible
tells you constantly to not fear, to not give into fear,
to not be afraid. So something happens to you, and
the more you think about it, the worse the phenomenon gets,
until you start to draw the correlation where you're like,
not going to look into that anymore, not gonna think
about that, not going to talk about it, which I
can certainly understand because I did not want to talk

(01:32:39):
about it with my wife or anybody for that matter.
And is that what it wanted? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:32:45):
I mean, well, it's interesting because the question you're asking
is the same question that's asked about the political stuff
and the or the deep state stuff like, and the
answer is the same. The answer because when say, like,
what are we supposed to do about this stuff? What
are we like these things are happening? What are we
supposed to do? Are we not supposed to fight it?
Are we not? The answer is the same. You preach

(01:33:08):
the name of Christ, and you you fight the things
that you can fight, and you don't try to engage
on a higher level than your call to do. And
and they they are using the same tactics. Like the
thing about the powers that be, the deep State, the cabal, whatever,
they don't have the control they pretend to have. They

(01:33:31):
the real alchemy going on is them convincing you that
they do. That they are the power that Satan is
sitting in a throne somewhere being like, aha, everything is
going according to plan. It's like, motherfucker, your plan is
meaningless in the in the eyes of God, like it's
his plan. You don't even realize that you're the one
being played here. And with all of your like ancient

(01:33:55):
wisdom being the most wise of the of the you
you're nothing. You're nothing, And don't be afraid of it.
Don't be afraid of it. It doesn't like not being
afraid does not include not being cautious. It doesn't mean
don't be reckless. It just needs don't be afraid. They
are not in control and these things are not that

(01:34:15):
attack you. Are not in control of you. They're they're
affecting you. But we already know the answer. We know
who where relief comes from, we know where help comes from.
We know where our strength comes from. And it doesn't
come from us. It's not anything we do. It's reliance
on something higher. And that's the same for both of

(01:34:37):
these realms. And like I mean, honestly, like your show
exists because they are connected. These worlds are connected. The
thing the paranormal things that happen to people in their homes,
those things are connected to the they're interacting with, the
CEOs and the corporate people and the politicians. It's the
same things, you know, Like I I don't think half

(01:34:57):
of these things are who they claim to be. You know,
there are guys out there, like discern not Discernment Deliverance
people that are like I spoke to this entity and
it's like I'm sure you did. It's any you know,
Jack or Jill out there will be like all right,
I'm gonna go pretend to be Osyrius real quick, and like.

Speaker 1 (01:35:20):
Yeah, that's the thing. I think. Doing this show, we've
realized that they're never going to really tell you their name.
That's something extremely significant because if you know their name,
then you can control them. It's like a I mean,
that's solemn, solemn, monistic magic or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:36):
Right, Yeah, there's power in the name, and that's why
there's power in the name, in the name of Jesus Christ.
It's like you and like obviously you guys have covered
before that, Like there's people out there that have had
these incidents and that hasn't worked for them. And I
think there is some sort of like alchemical reason of
why a human being who's got a knie who's going

(01:35:57):
to stab you and you're like, please know in the
name of Jesus, They're like, I'm gonna cut you anyway,
you know, Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that
that works. That that trans uh by transitive property applies
to things that are imbuing somebody. So if you're dealing
with the person who is opressed or possessed and wants
to do something to you, they're like, those rules don't

(01:36:18):
apply right now, Like those rules I touching something physical,
you know, Like you could be playing a video game
and like want to punch somebody and they're like, sorry,
I've got God mode on. Every time you punch me,
it doesn't hurt me. But then you can get in
your car, drive to their house, opened the door, and
punch them in the face. God didn't do anything for him.
So there's some sort of allowance. They're following some rule

(01:36:42):
that they could get around the that bypass, but they
can't come into you, you know, if you're imbued, if
you're an occupied vessel, they can't. Two spirits, aren't those
two opposing spirits can't exist inside you? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:36:58):
Let me uh, let me ask you that West. We
we talked about it earlier on the on the top
of the show and uh and you said that it
was going to uh come up at some point, this
idea of the chrow Macher or the rh How how
does that apply to this story of the meadow and
what what even is it? So?

Speaker 2 (01:37:18):
I don't know a lot about it. I assume it's
it's a one of the many names of you know,
shape shifters, brew haws, things like that. I didn't personally
research the Chromacher. I just know that Trey has and
he discusses it briefly in the film. Sorry, but I

(01:37:41):
I don't want to get too deep into it because
of how the things unfolding the film, and they're interesting,
and we do draw some connections to things within the
film that I think he's got to go.

Speaker 3 (01:37:56):
If you want to take a quick break, and you know,
you can come back on camera if you want to
let them outside.

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
Okay, that would be great.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
Ahead, No problem, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:38:04):
We'll keep it going. We'll wait for you to come back.
I could actually read a little bit about this raven
mocker here. Uh so we said before that it's a
it's a Cherokee spirit. It's said to prey on the
sack or dying to extend its own lifespan at night.
It is believed to fly through the air in fiery
form that sounds a lot like a kind of like
a phoenix, outstretched arms resembling wings, and sparks trailing behind it.

(01:38:30):
That's pretty specific. Fiery form with sparks trailing behind it
and outstretched arms that are that resemble wings. I don't
like to to often say like spiritual things that ancients
have seen were just their inability to describe technology that

(01:38:52):
was beyond their understanding.

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
That sounds a lot like that, though.

Speaker 3 (01:38:55):
That does kind of sound a lot like that. That's fascinating.
So so it flies through the air and a fire reform,
leaving a trail of sparks behind it. The flight is
accompanied by the sound of rushing wind and their cries remble,
described as resembling a raven's dive call, and they're considered

(01:39:16):
an omen of death. So there's an audible noise, right,
there's there's something like.

Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
If you were a kid in Gaza, that's how you describe.

Speaker 3 (01:39:25):
Yeah, dude, right, I mean that's what I'm saying. It
sounds a lot like that. It's fascinating. Raven mockers are
said to gather at the homes of the dying, tormenting
their victims by pressing on their chest to restrict breathing
or throwing them on the ground. So that sounds a
lot like poltergeists activity, right, getting tossed out of your

(01:39:47):
bed or pulled out of your bed. But then you
also have that sleep paralysis aspect where there's something on
your chest restricting your breathing. After the victim dies, the
raven mocker is believed to remove and consume the heart
to absorb the victim's remaining lifespan. No marks are left
on the body, but the heart is said to be missing.

(01:40:08):
That's fascinating. How would you determine that sacred text? Mysteries
of the Cherokee. Uh, that's interesting that some of the
footnotes and then Cherokee myths and legends thirty tails were
told McFarland and company. Although feared for their power, other

(01:40:29):
witches are said to avoid the raven mocker. Medicine men
using special knowledge can detect and repel them from entering homes.
Tradition holds that if raven mocker, if a raven mocker
is seen in its true form, it dies within seven days.
Man that's awfully specific.

Speaker 2 (01:40:48):
Comes and gets it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:50):
I don't know what what I mean we were talking about.
I'll describe it to you in a second. Let me
just finish this passage here. Gun skoalisky gun Skialiski are renowned.
Cherokee was said to have destroyed several raven mockers by
using a special tea made from duck root, enabling him
to see them. I wonder how he then went about it.
So one of the interesting details was about the raven mocker.

(01:41:14):
It's said to fly through the air at night in
a fiery form with outstretched arms and a trail of
sparks behind it, and that it's accompanied by the sound
of rushing wind and the cries of a raven's dive. Well,
it sounds a lot like I was telling top. I

(01:41:36):
don't often like to attribute sort of what would you
call it, a misunderstanding to ancient people, because you know,
it's like the more you look into things, the more
you're like, oh, maybe the ancients did know what the
hell they were talking about, you know, about some of
these things that they were seeing. But sometimes that whole
ancient aliens attribution of them not having the language to

(01:42:02):
describe technology kind of seems like it applies. So when
you have something flying through the air at night with
a trail of sparks behind it in a fiery form, uh,
and the sound of rushing wind and the cries of
a raven accompanying it, it sounds a lot like I mean,
that sounds like a combustion engine, you know what I mean?

(01:42:23):
Like this this, it sounds like Iron Man, right right right,
I just finished watching those uh my son, so I
don't know, I mean, very interesting. And then yeah, they
this is another interesting detail. They are said to gather
at the homes of their victims and they torment them
by pressing on their chest to restrict breathing, which sounds
a lot like sleep paralysis, or throwing them on the ground,

(01:42:45):
which sounds a lot like Poultergeist activity.

Speaker 2 (01:42:47):
Oh you guys should watch The Metal Project.

Speaker 1 (01:42:50):
Interesting, interesting circle circle?

Speaker 2 (01:42:57):
What do you maybe I will say? In the trailer
there's a girl saying it grabbed me by the leg
and threw me out of bed.

Speaker 3 (01:43:03):
Oh that's right, that is right, man, What the heck
is that?

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
That's bizarre. That's bizarre.

Speaker 3 (01:43:13):
So what are you gonna do?

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
West?

Speaker 3 (01:43:14):
You're gonna keep doing this. You're gonna keep going to
these places and see these things. And yeah, as long
as you're armored up right.

Speaker 2 (01:43:21):
Yeah, and and like there's there's gonna be places I
won't go for sure, but for the most part, like
I want to tell these people's stories. That's the thing
I want to do. And I want to add Like
one thing I knew when I left my last place
was whatever I do with what I can do, it's

(01:43:43):
gonna be to serve the Kingdom of God somehow. Like
whatever I do, that doesn't mean I won't do any
job ever, That doesn't you know, you've got to put
bread on the table. But I don't want to actively
do the opposite, right, Like I don't want to. That's

(01:44:05):
what was hard about the politics stuff is because it
wasn't it was offering, Like we were at that job.
We were talking about solutions that did not include the truth. Yeah,
it doesn't mean that, that doesn't mean that they aren't
viable solutions for the time being, or that it's that
you're not extrapolating extracting truth from fact and you're saying

(01:44:29):
you may be saying things that are factual, but they're
not truth right right, and uh and and I'm just
I'm not willing to do that anymore. I'm not willing
to be like, oh, there's solutions for these like geopolitical
nightmares were living that don't include like knowing the truth.
There are solutions that don't involve like saying that like

(01:44:50):
we just got to vote the right guy in again.
Like it's just not it's not doing it for me,
you know. It's like and I'm done siding with politicians
or or or world leaders or public figures that if
you are not on Christ's side, you're I'm not on
your side at the end of the day. And it's
like it is that ten years ago I would not

(01:45:11):
have been talking like this. I've been like, well, you know,
the right guy like lower taxes and you know, a
better foreign policy. We're going to be sitting pretty and
I'm like, no, it's not true anymore. Yeah, it's not
true anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:45:22):
It's funny because as you're as you're saying that without
like getting too deep into it, he's got okay, he's
got his puppy, he's doing his thing there. Yeah, there's
a I guess it's hard to say, but I think
that these things are actually not just incompatible, but I
think that they're in opposition to each other. Whereas we've

(01:45:46):
heard about what we do that there are people have issues.
They have issue with the faith aspect of what we do.
Whereas you think that you can balance these things, but
you really can't, because I guess the realities is just
they are polar opposites. They seem for a long time

(01:46:06):
to me that they were one and the same, or
at least can go hand in hand, like one leads
into the other, but one does lead into the other.
I think politics should lead into this idea of spirituality
and Christianity, but you've got to leave it at the door.
And it gets frustrating for both parties that are in
either camp when they're looking at each other because they

(01:46:27):
can't make sense of it.

Speaker 2 (01:46:28):
Yeah, and I think people hear that and they think, like,
what do you suggest the theocracy? And it's like, no,
it's just that any system is a flawed system if
people aren't imbued by the spirit of Christ, like if
if you like, I'm a free enterprise guy, right, Like,
I don't call it capital capitalism anymore, because what does
that even mean, Like we're in a capitalists audy, it's

(01:46:51):
a corporate corporatis nightmare. But like people being free to
make their own to exchange goods and services. Sure, but
just like socialism or communism break down because of the
godlessness of it, so too does free enterprise because you're
not dealing with honest brokers. So people can make like
freedom in Christ is not freedom to be liberty, and

(01:47:13):
it's freedom to do the right thing. And if you
are not individually doing the right thing from the bottom up,
then the system is doomed. And so that's the same
for the political system. If there's a I don't care
what bills being passed if it's not being passed with
the spirit of like goodness, like and doing the right thing.
And those things are not designed to do that. They're

(01:47:35):
designed to be big to obvious scate the many bad
things they do with a name like the Dream Act
or whatever, you know, like they want it to sound
as possible or as good as as possible. And that's
once again, it's the same with like the Due Age
the New Age. You've talked about it a lot, David,
where it's like a lot of these things that they
say like, ah, you know the health benefits of this,

(01:47:56):
the the mental health benefits of of these practices. Yeah,
I'm sure you know, or something too, like Eastern philosophy
and like chakra. I'm sure there is something that's wonderful
about that, But at what cost? You know, what what
is the root of it? Yoga? The same thing, you know, like,
oh yeah, those stretches are great. Are you trying to
channel interdimensional entities while you do it?

Speaker 3 (01:48:16):
So that's exactly where I've been at lately with the
ho yoga thing. It's like I can probably use some stretching.
My back is pretty stiff, and I think it's it's
a good thing to incorporate stretching, especially if you're lifting
and things like that. But at what point are you
trying to meditate and and get in contact with something
to align chakras, make yourself some sort of an antenna
of sorts to receive.

Speaker 2 (01:48:40):
Yoga, and it's like, have you ever seen that show
the OA, dude, Yeah, because that's that's and I think
that's the difference is you could do all of those
they're literally just making body signils like yeah, body signs
and and like yoga, and you could interpid to be
the same thing, but you don't have to do that.

(01:49:02):
You can do a downward dog and a whatever, and
you're not trying to communicate with you know.

Speaker 1 (01:49:09):
Iwas so like, I just got this thing in my back.

Speaker 2 (01:49:12):
Dog.

Speaker 3 (01:49:12):
Yeah, just trying to work this thing out of my back.
I Yeah, we've been in a similar place. You know,
everybody knows that the whole falling out with Clinton, we're
not doing dangerous anymore. But after it was removed, and
I think God removed it, I was able to look
back and say like, yeah, dude, I had to compromise
my beliefs in order to engage with those ideas in

(01:49:38):
a way that wasn't going to constantly derail the show,
you know what I mean. Because it's like, if you
tell me that we just need to do X, Y
and Z. And it's great that Cash Betel is the
head of the FBI. What I really want to tell
you is it doesn't It doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't
matter at all that Cash Betel is the head of
the FBI. It doesn't matter that your guy got a

(01:50:00):
doesn't matter. But what that makes is for every episode
to be a contentious episode where I am unwilling to
move from my position because in order to engage with
these ideas and have a conversation that's going to last
two hours, I need to be able to say more
than it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:50:15):
But the funny thing is that on the flip side
of that, that's the response that you would get from
the political side, Like I'm sure if we sat down
with you know, like a Tim Poole, he would he
would give you very much. Doesn't really, that doesn't apply.
This doesn't apply here. And it's like, yeah, you're right,
it doesn't, but neither does your ship not from my worldview,

(01:50:37):
and I think my worldview is correct.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
Yeah, And I'm and I know you guys have a
certain opinion of Tim and stuff, and I.

Speaker 3 (01:50:47):
I you know what, I like, I liked him, and
I think that he is I think he's coming around.
I don't think you keep a guy like cash Man
around and Tim obviously loves him, you know what I mean. So, like,
I think what Tim has done is he just worked
himself into a position where he can't really engage with

(01:51:07):
these ideas because everything he's built with built has has
been predicated on engaging with these I Yeah, what I.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
What I was saying is it's unfair. I've never spoken
to Tim in this in that manner. I'm talking to
like the people that we have, the real politic heads
and political heads like Dave Smith. Yeah, they gave us
that I reject the premise. I was like, yeah, dude,
I reject your fucking premise. Like you can keep debating.
It doesn't matter what you've done here is I mean,
it's kind of astounding that you've built such a like

(01:51:36):
a large following doing this, but in the end, it's
like it's fruitless in a way because where are we
leading people? Where are we going?

Speaker 2 (01:51:43):
I have a great Dave Smith anecdote from where he
was on our show when we did the live event,
and I had been there all week setting it up,
and I was just flustered and done by the time
the show started and I walked up to Tim was
asking me to do something, and on the mic, Dave
yelled at me. He was like, get your genocide out

(01:52:05):
of here, and I was like, and I've had a
shirt on and Hebrew like words across that. He was like,
get your Zionist genescid get out of here. He was like,
what's that say? And I said, it says Jesus's Messiah.
He goes, oh, you just you just want to piss
off everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:52:28):
Yeah, that's what I was upset about that Dave Smith episode,
because it was, like, I do regard him as a
as a great mind in his ability to.

Speaker 2 (01:52:37):
That was he was being facetious, I should say.

Speaker 3 (01:52:40):
Like obviously in that moment, but when I spoke to him,
I was just trying to get him to I wanted
to see what it was like when a guy like
him engaged with these ideas. And I couldn't even get
him to engage with the ideas. He rejected the premise outright.
He wouldn't step foot in that supernatural kind of a place.
And I thought that it would have been an easy

(01:53:02):
compromise for him to make, given the state of the world,
and you know, certainly what happens at the upper echelons
of politics, given all the Epstein esque kind of you
know things that were subjected to now and I thought, well,
certainly now, more than ever, a guy like Dave Smith
can entertain these ideas, and I was fascinated to see
how he interacted with them. They wouldn't even give me that,

(01:53:24):
and I said.

Speaker 2 (01:53:24):
Yeah, everybody, Don ramp is in a different location. It is.

Speaker 3 (01:53:29):
It is. But I had never and I haven't. I
hadn't up until that moment, and since then I still
have not. Had it happen again, had anyone completely reject
engaging with the ideas, just flat out reject engag I
won't engage when you say, I reject the premise more
effectively if you go back and watch that episode. What

(01:53:50):
he said is I am unwilling to engage with those
ideas for an hour and a half to two hours.
And I thought, fascinating. Yes, I've never experienced that before,
and I thought that I would get something totally different
from Dave Smith there and and it's not what I got.
So I mean that, Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:54:11):
My read on that is probably different than there's or
maybe it's not. You tell me if I'm wrong. Somebody
who's unwilling to engage with an idea is not somebody
who dismisses them out of hand. It's somebody who cannot
deal with the reality of them.

Speaker 3 (01:54:23):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that Dave Smith is used to
being and I'm not saying this to his detriment. I mean,
if anything, it's actually a compliment. He's used to being
able to engage at a very high level with any
topic that you throw at him. If you have Dave
Smith in your chair, if you have him on your stage,
then you are guaranteed a high level engagement with whatever

(01:54:45):
the subject matter is. He does not engage with something
it seems to be the case that is going to
have him give a subpar performance, and so it was
like he doesn't he doesn't know an about it. Yeah,
he doesn't have a handle on the situation, and rather

(01:55:05):
than engage in it in any sort of lower capacity
than what you're typically used to seeing from Dave Smith,
He's just not going to engage with it at all,
which is like, you know, it's a it's a safe bet.
And I don't dislike these people. It's the same thing
with with with Tim. I don't disliked him. We bust
his balls a lot. But and I I kind of
really just want I want Tim to get it. I

(01:55:28):
want and I think he does kind of get it
on some level. It's just like how much are you
willing to pull back the curtain? But what's what's a
shame about that? Is like we don't have any curtain.
There's no curtain here. You know. If if you throw
something at me that I don't understand, I'm going to
tell you that I'm retarded and I just don't understand it.
I like to think that I get it, though, and

(01:55:51):
I think that he does. But he's just like, like
I tweeted something this morning, I said, are you having fun?
And it was just like to the to the to
Twitter at large. And and I think once you the
reason you stop having fun is because you won't allow
yourself to be seen as as the clown at all. Yeah,
and that puts you in a really, really rough spot.

(01:56:13):
So Dave Smith, it's like, in order to engage in
this supernatural conversation, he might have had to admit in
that moment, much like I will admit at any given
moment I'm retarded. I don't know anything about that. It
seems that it's valid, but I know nothing about it.
I've not spent any time looking into it. So on
that topic, I'm retarded. But that lowers you to the

(01:56:35):
clown and if you don't want to be that, well
then you don't engage with it at all. But I
think once you do that, you stop having any fun.
And I just wonder if these guys are having fun anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
I don't know, right, And there's something to discussing it
that is acknowledging it. And acknowledging it is tough because
if you have a stable I feel like that's what
a lot of new Christians, but people who are becoming
like Christ curious. It's at the start. It's very curious

(01:57:10):
for people that like, you know, I don't know, but
I like to know. But I think it's very destabilizing
at first, because you are built on a foundation of sand,
and to move to a foundation of stone it requires
some movement on your part. It requires you deconstructing your
domicile there and moving it somewhere else. And that's very

(01:57:31):
uncomfortable because at least you know where it's the devil
you know type of thing. It's very you're comfortable in that, And.

Speaker 3 (01:57:40):
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:57:45):
We were talking about sleep Token before the show, and
they have a line that's something about like this cord
of days become harmony in your mind. And it's like
you are too afraid to move to what would be
better because you are comfortable with what's not working because
it's yours. So like, moving from dysfunction to function is

(01:58:07):
scary because it means something with you or something around
you is wrong, even though you know it is. You're
like you can reconcile and say, like, it's not that bad,
you know, yeah, and like and I'm not diagnosing Dave Smith.
Dude's a one hundred thousand times smarter than I am.
So like, but you do see that in people, right,

(01:58:28):
You do see it where it's like I'm not going
to It's it's the like why do you leave your
abusive husband? And you're like, you don't get it. He's
not like that all the time, you know. And and
it's the same like he would be the first person
to say like the world's messed up, right, and you'd
be like, hey, there's this great hope that did the
most amazing thing that you could like put your faith in,
and and it absolves not absolves you but he took

(01:58:51):
the brunt of your punishment for you and your role
in it and how that can change you. That's a
hard pill to swallow for somebody who's built their life
on them. Yeah. I'm not saying he did that. I'm
just saying people do so.

Speaker 1 (01:59:04):
Jordan Peterson fallacy, right, Yeah, what do you believe in gods?
What do you mean by God? It's like, faggot, do
you believe that? It's a simple It's a simple question.
But I guess, like you know, to these people, these
uh A very high intellectuals, like I think if they
have to come to terms with it. I think I
was mentioning this on the previous show, but uh, if

(01:59:24):
you have to come to terms with this thing existing,
that means that you have to also come to terms
with your entire personality, yourself, what you've done before and
what you're going to do after that has to die. Yeah,
that's painful.

Speaker 2 (01:59:37):
Well, somewhat push back on you again on the Jordan
Peterson because I actually like that answer from him, is
because he's saying what what Christ means by believing me
and what Paul means by put your faith in him
is not what most Christians do Most Christians say, like, yeah,
I believe it anyway, what's on HBO tonight, you know,
like it's it's it's passive, And he's saying, like belief

(02:00:00):
in something like that is much more powerful.

Speaker 1 (02:00:02):
And like I'm referencing when they ask him if he
believes God, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:07):
And I think right, and I think I think that there, yeah,
there is there is. Yes, Christ made it simple. However,
what belief means, I think is a big question because
like I've seen those books at the bookstore that are
like very passive, You're okay, I'm okay. Christianity it's like
just acknowledge that He did it and you're good, and
it's like that is not what beliefs. Belief changes you

(02:00:29):
from the inside out. Like Christian does not mean follower
of Christ, it means emulator of Christ. It means change,
like when it's the whole, like sinners come to me
as you are, but go for me and sin no more.
There's a big caveat there of Like it doesn't mean
you're not going to ever sin again. It means your
attitude towards sin changes. It means that I don't want

(02:00:49):
to do this anymore. I want to die not only
into the world, but to me, that's tough, and that
level of belief is man, it's tough, it is rough,
and and you know, it's it's like vomiting out who
you are, who you've come to accept, because we do
rationalize ourselves as good people. Right well, like I'm a

(02:01:13):
good person, but you have to accept the fact that, like,
oh man, I'm trash without you, I'm literal garbage without you,
I'm made in the image of God, and I'm a
desecration of his name by my very existence, without without
the Holy Spirit, without redemption to Christ.

Speaker 3 (02:01:29):
When you've been put up on a pedestal because of
your materialistic ideas, right, so, you're really good at engaging
with the materialistic realm, with politics and all these things,
and you're understanding of it in all of your study
has elevated you to all of a sudden a person
of authority, somebody who celebrated And these people I think
are afraid not only of engaging with these ideas that

(02:01:50):
they don't understand and having to admit that that whatever
they've done is you know, folly, but it also makes
them the low man on the totem pole. So you
lined one totem pole for as long as you could,
you know, scratching and clawing your way to the top.
And now all of a sudden you're afraid of being
cast at the bottom of the next totem pole. But
I don't see it that way at all. Going back

(02:02:12):
to my engagement with Dave Smith, I thought it was fascinating,
or would have been fascinating to see how a guy
with his mind interacts with these ideas. So it wouldn't
cast Dave Smith at the bottom of the totem pole.
It would It would just you know, he would like
all of us. The more you learn, the more you
realize you didn't know to begin with. Right, That's that's

(02:02:33):
kind of what learning is all about, in my opinion.
And there is no totem pole when it comes to
belief in Christ. Right, I think that there's like this
this idea that there's a hierarchy. I believe more than you,
I'm more well studied than you. But Christ really has
made it incredibly simple in a lot of ways. And

(02:02:53):
and and it wouldn't have casted him in a negative
light at all. But I think a lot of these people,
they are guarding the gold.

Speaker 2 (02:03:01):
Yeah, and to your earlier point about like you've built
yourself on these ideas you've built it makes you feel like, oh,
I if I believe this, then it means these things
I've done have no meaning. But it's the opposite. It's
like the reason you were able to do that in
the first place was because imagine how powerful like your

(02:03:22):
testimony is going to be and how like how your
knowledge will evolve once you the curtain is pulled back,
like it's it's not like I'm a metaphor guy, so
it's like and imagine training your whole life to understand
music theory. And then somebody was like, hey, by the way,
if you do this, you'll have perfect pitch. And you're
like no, because I I understand it on a mathematical level,

(02:03:46):
and it's like yeah, but you could feel it on
a you could feel it, and it's like, no, that'll
make all my knowledge worthless. And it's like, no, it's not.
If you have perfect pitch. Imagine how powerful you're going
to be musically if you already know this. Whereas if
you're somebody with perfect pitch who's never studied music, you
may be able to play a tune. But if you
can't hang with the studio musicians who can read site
read sheet music. It's like, what good are you? You know?

Speaker 3 (02:04:07):
Like, dude, that's like, I'm never gonna claim to be
the Dave Smith of conspiracy and occult, but I came
through that way, right. I learned all of those ideas first,
conspiracy and occult concepts and all this crap. I saw
that first. And then when I finally came over to
Christianity and realized that I had been not giving this

(02:04:28):
thing that it's due, that had been there the entire
time and was always like all the information kept kind
of flowing towards it, and I kept going on, not today,
not today. Once I did that, it like it didn't say,
wipe this late clean. Everything you think you know is
totally bullshit and therefore forget it all. It was like,
here is a much greater context for all the things

(02:04:49):
you think you know.

Speaker 2 (02:04:50):
Yeah, and you're an asset to believers who don't know
those things.

Speaker 3 (02:04:53):
So whenever I bump into somebody that's like, oh, you're
just a you're just a Christian. You believe that you
God is real when all these other gods aren't real.
It's like you think you understand what I am. I
actually think those other ones are real too. They're just
lowercase G baby, like those are also real. And I've
been through all that crap. If you want to sit

(02:05:13):
here and talk to me about numerology and all this crap,
like I've been through it. I understand it. I see
the symbols. They're there, you know what I mean. You're
not wrong in noticing that. But I got through all
that and realized that I was wrong about my interpretation
of these things. It's like much of the information is real.
The nature of it all is what's incredibly important. And

(02:05:34):
if you don't have a grasp on the nature, then
your interpretation of all the things that are real is
skewed and massively to your detriment.

Speaker 1 (02:05:42):
And so.

Speaker 3 (02:05:44):
I think it would have been the same thing. And
who knows, you know, everybody's journey is different. Dave Smith
did say having a child made him believe in God,
and my thing with that was like, well, then you
should probably be tenaciously after that, as tenaciously as you
are after everything else. But listen, it's a two hour
and ten mark. Let's bring it in for a landing
here one more time. Wes, when is this is gonna

(02:06:05):
We're gonna try to drop this tonight. So what's the
date of the release of the documentary? Where can people
find it? Uh and check it out?

Speaker 2 (02:06:14):
It will be on moment dot co. It's like a
premiere website, and it comes out July twenty seventh. July
twenty seventh, it'll it'll drop at eight pm Eastern time.
And yeah, I hope you guys, and I hope everybody

(02:06:34):
enjoys it. It's it's it's not what I think a
lot of people are expecting. It's like I said, it's
more of an adaptation of the stories of the book
and some like casual insights on it. Some it's not
meant to be a like a diagnosis of what you know,

(02:06:55):
we think or anything like that, like that.

Speaker 3 (02:06:59):
Didn't you're texting you afterwards because I know, obviously I
can't ask you here on the show what you think
is happening there. But after I watch it, I will
be messaging.

Speaker 2 (02:07:09):
You and if you guys want to bring me back,
we could talk about it. We can talk about the stories.

Speaker 3 (02:07:14):
Yeah, because there's so much that I want to ask you,
but I don't want to give away too much. So
I think it would be a good idea to have
you back on and is it in Georgia? Stop, no comment, unbelievable,
no common look wes where else can everybody find your work?
That's for the documentary? Anywhere else they could look you up?

Speaker 2 (02:07:35):
Yeah, like you can check out my old work on YouTube.
There's clips of it show called cast Castle that I did.
I'm proud of that. It was just a silly, stupid
thing that we did, like a it's always sunny ish
type thing. At the office, I saw a couple of
people saying they love the show Supernatural. We did two

(02:07:56):
episodes that were direct spoofs of Supernatural with Tony Merkle,
where we took on a tu that took the shape
of Joe Biden and spoiler, uh the way, we couldn't
figure out how to defeat him, so we just trapped
him at the top of stairs and he couldn't get down.

Speaker 1 (02:08:15):
Scream at the top of the stairs. You're good?

Speaker 3 (02:08:18):
We are you having fun? Dudes?

Speaker 2 (02:08:21):
Oh yeah, having fun. I'm ready to move on from
this piece. This film. It's been I've been working on
since January, so uh yeah, it's been a long time coming,
and I'm going into the next, going right into the
next one, and then we got another one right after that.
So we're we're trying to be consistent, but not like

(02:08:42):
oversaturate at the same time or or sacrifice quality for quantity.
But there's a lot of stories to tell and and
this is our whole team feels called to do this,
like i'll say, encouraging thing like Kent on our team,
who is not a Christian, but he's not adversarial. I

(02:09:03):
just remember at one point he called me during this
and he said, I gotta go back to church, just
un provoked or unsolicited. He's just like, I just feel
like I should do that. And I was like, all
right in my ledger one yeah, one, So this was
worth it was like yeah. And that's what we want

(02:09:24):
from this ultimately, is for people to say, because I'm
sure you guys get it. The people that are like, hey,
I wasn't even thinking about this and now it's something
I'm considering and I see it for what it is,
and I see the world for what it is. And
that's what we want people to see the power of
the Lord and understand that he's more powerful than the
forces of evil.

Speaker 3 (02:09:46):
Well, I think that's a great message. It's a great
place to put a fork in, and we'd love to
have you back. Maybe next time you can grab somebody.
I don't know if you have access to anybody who
can come on and also elaborate a little bit on
what goes on there at the Meadow. I think we
should run it back because a lot of people, you know,
this is a good way to get people to go
and check it out. I know I'm gonna check it out.
I'll be there at twenty seventh apmuh, but I'm gonna

(02:10:10):
have a lot of questions after it's over.

Speaker 2 (02:10:11):
So yeah, there'll be a lot of questions. It's like
I said, it's it's it's not an analysis, it's a presentation, right,
It's a here's what happened, and not a like, okay,
let's look into this because we just I have my
thoughts and like, there's several things I wanted to bring
up on here. I was like, I can't go there yet.

Speaker 3 (02:10:31):
See see, all right, all right, we're gonna have you
back on. We'll talk about whatever the hell is going
on at the meadow.

Speaker 1 (02:10:37):
Guys.

Speaker 3 (02:10:38):
If you want to see it, be there on the
twenty seventh at eight pm. What's the website? One more
time moment dot co moment dot co. All right, guys,
we know where to find it. Wes, thank you brother,
it's always a pleasure talking to you. And until next time.

Speaker 2 (02:10:52):
Soon, until next to him, Thank you, guys.

Speaker 1 (02:10:54):
Until next time here, oh Bay, submit and comply, guys,
peace out.

Speaker 2 (02:11:00):
It's got plaster.

Speaker 3 (02:11:01):
Is a tod lock box in the corner of the rooms.
It is constantly telling us what to relieve is real.
He will persuade.

Speaker 1 (02:11:12):
What they've seen their eyes is what there is

Speaker 2 (02:11:13):
To see, because held his face of an exposition to
trust the being pictures, and they had

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188: The Meadow Project w/ Wesley Roth | Nephilim Death Squad

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}188: The Meadow Project w/ Wesley Roth | Nephilim Death Squad