June 26, 2025 • 41 mins
It's the Imagine Cup Finalists! While at Build, Carl and Richard sat down with Daniel Kim, Matt Steele, and Gheida Omar to talk about their projects in the Imagine Cup. Gheida discussed Signvrse, a mobile app that enables real-time translation of speech, text, and sign language. Matt tells the story of Hairmatch, a mobile app for women with textured hair. And Daniel describes Argus, the winner of the Imagine Cup, as a two-part wearable device for people with low vision that provides object detection, facial recognition, and spatial guidance. All amazing projects from a remarkable group of young people!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey
(00:34):
guess what. It's dot net rocks from build. I'm Carl
Franklin Capel. We've been here for three days. This is
our third day, and I think it's our third day.
It's our third day, yeah, yeah, and we're here where
the Imagined Cup finalists. Representatives from each of the three
teams are going to interview them in a minute. But
first let's talk about better know a framework.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Roll the crazy music? All right? Man? What do you got?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I went searching again for things repos on GitHub that
are trending, and the number one repo right now is
WSL because.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Interesting just Windows Subsystem for Linux. Yeah, because they just
open it, just open starts it.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
But before that, this one has been at the top
AI hedge fund.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Okay, what's that? Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Absolutely I haven't run it, but it's a proof of
concept for an AI powered hedge fund. The goal of
the project is to explore the use of AI to
make trading decisions. This project is for educational purposes only
and is not intended for real trading or investment.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
It seems like a great way to lose a lot
of money fast.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, But here's the cool thing if you think about it. It
employs several agents working together. So this is a great
example of agentic programming. The Aswaff demo, Darin agent, the
dean of valuation, focuses on story numbers and discipline value.
All right, I'm not going to read them all, but
one of them is Charlie Munger, right, Barren Buffert's partner
(02:07):
only buys wonderful businesses at fair prices. Michael Burry agent
the big short contrarian who hunts for deep value. Peter Lynch,
Phil Fisher, Stanley Druckenmeiler. Now the question is what do
they train this on their data? You know they're trading
data apparently, and you know they have big disclaimers. But
(02:27):
it's very popular, and that makes me wonder how good
it is.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
You know what they say, past results do not indicate
future results.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
No, you're right about that, but I think you know
understanding what we do about AI. It's either that it's
really good clickbait and got a lot of people to
download it, or it's working for some people.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I don't know either one of those is true, but
something's happening for sure. Okay, So that's it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
That's weird AI things. And this one's pretty popular, So
who's talking to us? Gravity comment to Show nineteen forty eight,
the one we did with Rob MenShing. We were talking
about the open source maintenance fee and just trying to
make open source more sustainable. Got a lot of comments
on that show. Actually, this one comes from Rob King,
who says, in my experience of using open source in
a commercial setting, the biggest barrier is the financial apparatus
(03:14):
to get money to pay for maintenance. We talked about
this on the show.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
There are often forms to fill out and people to
convince to get that payment. I suspective companies just gave
devs a small annual stipend to spend on open source
project the money would flow more readily. After all, if
I've taken a dependency on open source project, I've already
done its cost benefit analysis that seems very optimistic. Actually, Rob,
mostly I had a problem and I made that problem
go away. The actual money change part should be as
(03:41):
low frish as possible. I came at this a different
way during the show, where it's because I, of course
have worked with CFOs. It's like, Hey, if we had
a mechanism so a CFO could put one chunk of
money once a year and it would distribute into open
source based on utilization, they'd probably do that. Just a
question of how hard that mechanism is developed. But Rob,
I appreciate your thoughts, and a copy of Music Cobey
(04:03):
is on its way to you. And if you'd like
a copy of Musico buy I write a comment on
the website at dot NetRocks dot com or on the
facebooks we publish every show there. And if you comment
there and I read it on the show, was that
your copy of music Kobe?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And for those who don't know, music to code by
is music that you put on in the background while
you're trying to focus. It's not distracting, it's not boring,
and it is scientifically based in what I should I say,
it's based in science in a study about the aspects
of music that help people focus.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
So yeah, there's after they did that show with Mark Semen.
We were talking about flow and focus and you then
made a thing.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I made a thing.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So there's twenty two tracks now they're twenty five minutes
each to correspond with a Pomodora technique and you get
them at musicdocodebuy dot net, or as Richard said, by
sending us a comment, Okay, let us talk about the
imagined cup we have, right, you know what, You're right,
we should do nineteen fifty six, but I did not
prepare anything. So this is episode nineteen fifty six. And
(05:00):
what we've been doing lately is talking about what happened
that year in world events. M So, I don't know
you've got something up there.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
We're beginning of the Suez crisis. Oh, that was the
invasion of Britain and trying to control that the waterway there,
which is very big deal. Yeah, and the first time
Elvis Presley became famous, right, the first detection of a
neutrinoy an undetectable particle.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
An undetectable particle that can go through walls and lead
and everything else. How did they even detect it with really?
Once in a while the Trino's decay. It's very rare
and by far most importantly, General Electric releases the first
snoozeable alarm clock. Wow, there you go, but then you
couldn't snooze.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I wonder if it sounded like modern techno music.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I'm thinking that's the thing. The beat nineteen fifty six.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, so all right, well there's more stuff to talk
about in nineteen fifty six, but we want to talk
to the Imagined Cup finalists builds. So we have representatives
of each team, just one representative from each team. So
I'll start with Matt. Matt Steele is on the hair
Match team. He's a Georgia Tech computer science grad with
(06:13):
a concentration in AI and embedded systems. He has published
more than five apps to the iOS app Store with
over twenty thousand monthly active users. Matt's also a former
US Olympic Trials qualifier in swimming and took fifth place
at the US Open in swimming.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Wow. How about that?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And on top of that, you're in the Imagined Cup
Finalists And so that's from the hair Match team. Guida
Abdallah Omar is on the sign Verse team, and she
is a passionate innovator and project associative Signverse that's sign
v r S, where she leverages technology to address social challenges.
(06:54):
Is the founder of Girls I Save, an initiative empowering
girls in STEM and advocating against gender based violence. She
brings a strong commitment to community driven tax solutions. A
Guide is also a Generation Connect Youth envoy with the ITU,
a judge for Young Scientists Kenya, and a recognized change
(07:16):
maker in the Coastal region of Kenya. Her work combines
information technology, advocacy and innovation to create inclusive, impactful change.
Welcome and Daniel Kim is studying math in neuroscience at
Stamford and seeing his grandmother struggle with her visual impairment,
Daniel was inspired to pursue Argus, which is one of
(07:38):
the teams in the finalists. In his free time, he
loves spending time with animals in any capacity he can. Okay, well,
welcome guys to dot ne Rocks and congratulations, thank you
for having us. You bet, Matt, Let's start with you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So here.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Match is the team that you are on and tell
us a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah sure.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Hair Match is a mobile app which allows women with
curly hair to take pictures of their hair, and then
we use AI to be able to determine their hair type,
and from there we've done the R and D to
be able to curate products based on their specific hair
type that work for them. And so there's a very
big problem with curly hair care where people will spend
a lot of money on products and then the products
(08:23):
don't actually work for their hair because there's something really
specific about that one product, you know, might be one
chemical or one molecule that's often the formulation that doesn't
work for that person's hair type. And then you end
up with a bunch of products under yourself. And so
my co founder, Relisha, has very very curly, very long hair,
and this is a problem that she faced first.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I imagine just I've seen shelves like that just yeah,
bottles that were used once.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, just you know, you use it once, but once
you use it once, you can't return it. And so
she just had this. She called it the shelf of shame.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So it's like our phones.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
And so I've been friends with her since we interned
together about two years ago. We were both college athletes.
She cheered at University of North Carolina and I swam
at Georgia Tech, and so we just became friends over that,
and then eventually we both are really interested in building things,
and so we decided to make hair match and that's
kind of how it was born.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Now she's technological also, or was she just interested in
the problem.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
So she she is technical, she can code, but she
primarily her strengths are in the media and the product
side of things, and so primarily those two things were
her focus on the team. And then she has a
very very deep understanding of the problem because she is
the customer.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Of her Perfect Perfect Domain Expert.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
So people listening might be going, what you know, that
seems kind of silly, But you know, I have two
stepdaughters with curly hair, and they struggled all their growing
up lives and into adulthood probably still do now with
this problem. I'm you know, straightening hair was and just
combing it could be a huge shoe, right, And some
(10:01):
people want to straighten curly hair. Some people want to
have smaller curls when they have big curls. Like there's
a whole bunch of styling things and just maintenance.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, and there's a lot of societal pressure as well
on people with curly hair and either straighten it or
to keep it in very traditional hairstyles. They've been commonly
accepted in the workplace for decades here especially, I guess
primarily in the US because that's where we're based out of.
But you know, one of the things that Alicia and
I believe in is we want people to be able
to have equal opportunity professionally and from a self confidence
(10:32):
perspective as well, and so being able to build something
that directly improves people's ability to style their hair and
leave their confidence is great.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
We can go to the app store and download hair
Match right now.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Yeah, it's been live for six months now.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Actually, wow, what's the response been.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
The response has been great. So in the app, we
did for a while have my phone number in there.
People could just text me if there was a problem,
and I would just get these texts at random hours
of the day like I love this, this is amazing, guys,
you're doing great. We get emails like that as well,
and so the response has been overwhelmingly positive, and that's
something that we've really enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Talk to me about the workflow, like, how does people
use the app.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah, So a user will download the app from the
app Store and they go through onboarding. We ask them
a few questions about their experience with hair and the
sort of what they already know versus not, so we
can tailor the experience a little bit to that. Then
the primary magic is we have them take two pictures
of their hair very up close in good lighting, so
we're able to actually.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
See that in the more in detail.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
We process that using a visual transformer that we run
in Azure ai foundry, and we're able to get the
hair type. Once we get that hair type, we give
them a nice little savable card that they can save
to the chemeeral. It's like, oh, this is your hair analysis.
It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
We it's like five or six different categories that you
check exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
We have five different properties on that card that they
can see. And then from there they're able to enter
the app and they can go to the product recommendations list,
which is curated directly for their specific match of those properties,
and it goes, Okay, this is what this person needs,
and it shows them only those products, and they're all
sorted by the category as well, so whether it's gel,
(12:08):
whether it's shampoo, whether it's conditioner, they can get easy
access to those. And so instead of having to go
to a store and you have, you know, a million
products on the shelves, you don't know which ones actually
work for you unless you, you know, look each one
up one by one, and you have to go to
some obscure web page to find that. We have that
information all in front of the user, all at once,
and it's very streamlined, very easy.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
And of course my instinct is now you'll go to
the store with the list and look at that. Was like, no,
you won't, You'll go on Amazon in order.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
And so the other thing we do is we have
links to every single product inside the app, so we
don't actually sell the products, but we connect the people
to the source. And so what we've actually been able
to do with that is we are able to offer
discounts on those products because we reach out to the
brand and manufacturers that we've found through our R and.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
D to be a monetizing strategy.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Then, not necessarily for the modestation, we did it more
for the customer. We do get the small affiliates, but
it's been primarily good for us because we're able to
not only you know, give the customer exactly what they want,
but we can also save the money, which is really
really cool.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, that is cool and congratulations, that's a great thing.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Just curious and any of you can answer this. How
many other teams did you guys beat out to get
in the top three?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
A lot? But yeah, the match kept huge.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah, I think it was. There were over fifteen thousand
students that participated.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
This year, one and fifty countries.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So just being here and you guys were on stage
right before the keynote, yes, on the first day of build.
That must have been really exciting.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was. It was amazing, Just a
great experience to be up there. You know, you look
into the crowd and you know, the lights are a
little bit blinding on stage, but you can see so
many people and it really hits you in that moment
that you know.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You're there thousands of people in them.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Yeah, it's like you've made something impact.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
We have been hundreds of yers watching online.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yeah, not the freaky out that it was like thinking,
you know, there are almost as many people in there
as we had users on hair Match in the first
couple of months. Sure, that's insane.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah. Well, also realization like that, how many people you
attached to? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah, it seems like a niche product, but clearly for
a certain group of folks it's really important, really important.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
We estimate that there are probably about a billion people
or more that could benefit from our product in this
current state.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Wow, should we switch to you gata? Should we talk
about sign Verse?
Speaker 6 (14:29):
Of course?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah? So what is the product and tell us about?
Speaker 7 (14:33):
The sign Verse is an AI pod platform that chooses
three D avatar to convert speech and text to real
time sign language interpretation.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Wow. Wow, that's really cool.
Speaker 7 (14:44):
So in basic what it's communication breaking the barriers between
a person who's had of hearing and a person who
can hear, because sometimes it becomes very challenging when people
you know, communicate and someone cannot hear.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
So with the app, you can be able to type
in list hello, good morning.
Speaker 7 (15:00):
So the avatar will be able to do the sign language,
and then the person who is next will be able
to see that through the application. So you can either
use text or speech and making communications simless for both
the hearing and the head of here.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So I could hold up my phone just talk and
it's going to do the.
Speaker 7 (15:16):
Sign language, Yes, absolutely, And we drove the inspiration because
Brandis and I used to participate in Young Scientist Kenya
That's Pack Home, and we used to do robotics training
for young children and one time we found ourselves in
a situation where the students that we're supposed to train
were not able to hear, like the head of hearing
(15:37):
and some of them were completely deaf. And you know,
the amount of signed interpreters in the room like what
to go to different classes, so there was already a gap.
We had to you know, find ways to be able
to bring that message right in terms of coding and
talking to the student. But ever since then we realize
there is a gap actually, and then we met Daniel
(15:57):
who is one of our team who literally had to
switch from being a computer student to being in the
business because the school did not have sign language interpreters
for that cause. So you can imagine the change he
literally had to switch. And you know, it also comes
with a lot of emotions to these people, they feel neglated.
The community, you know, pushes them away because of the
(16:19):
stigma of them not being able to hear. And that's
why we were driven to, you know, create a technology
that's going to focus more on providing real time sign
language interpretation at different levels.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So you just mentioned sign language interpretations, so this app
will also you can hold it up to somebody who's
signing and it will say the words to you.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
So that is like a future vision that we want
to do.
Speaker 7 (16:41):
For our first product, it's just converting speech to text
and then to sign language. But in future we believe
that we will be able to do the vice versa.
And that's why we have signed verse so that we
can go from sign to verse and back.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yesh wow.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Because we used to have remember the Connect Microsoft Connect
and it could track all of your joints in three
D space. Yes, I think it was twenty twenty frames
pertective like that, So there were applications that use that.
But I think it wouldn't be more challenging on a
phone to go from straight video to generative AI now right.
Speaker 7 (17:18):
Yes, we're actually trying to incorporate the use of AI
to be able to make it more seamless and more
interactive because.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Even that Spelton tracking had problem with hands. Yeah, and
sign of course it depends on the flavor signed too,
doesn't it.
Speaker 7 (17:30):
Yes, we have different sign language and because of the
motion capture suits that we acquired and we incorporate the
different data sets from Kenyan sign language to Ruandan Sign
language to even SL So in future we're hoping to
incorporate or different sign language based on the context of
the country and the community that it.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Comes literally country to country, the sign language varias.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
Yeah, even in Kenyan Sign language itself, it's narrowed down
to different community sign language stylists.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yes, yeah, regular language.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
It's just a language.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
It's just that it's now in form of you know,
hand motion gestures and stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
When you have your every area, every dialect has its
own idioms and things like that.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yes, other people may not.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Understand just collecting all that data it's going to be
really powerful, exactly, But I don't know that there's a
good repository for.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
All of the variations.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
We're actually finding very hard in Africa to get like
a very concrete data set when it comes to sign
language interpretation. So far, we've gotten over twenty three hundred
glosses in terms of the sign language interpretation, but we're
looking forward to expanding to around two hundred and fifty
thousand in the first phase and then five hundred thousand closses,
so it's actually a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
A very definitive collection exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yes, so in as signed verse in the app stores
and downloadable now.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
So we've not been able to have it fully installed,
but it's live. You can be able to access it,
but it's not on the download for because we are
still trying to ensure that it is accessible enough.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And yes, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
This is amazing and your cause, like I imagine after this,
you've got another several things on your to do list.
What's your plan for the future.
Speaker 7 (19:11):
So just like I mentioned, we are planning to really
expand in terms of the data because that is one
of the most critical aspects we need to input in
our platform. So we are looking at expanding beyond just
Kenyan sign language to Rwandan and different African sign language
and then also incorporate different you know, business model in
terms of industries where communication is critical, just like in
(19:34):
the healthcare just imagine you're going to the doctor and
the doctor is not able to understand you. So tailoring
our platform to you know, contextual to healthcare system, you know,
transport system, like we're having communications with Kenya Airways, so
that we ensure like whatever communication is there, our platform
is also there to help people with the hairing close.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So I guess my question was, Okay, after this app
is done, yes, then you'll probably move on the other
thing because you're you know, the causes that you're talking
about with girls and young girls.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I imagine you know you've thought about what to do next,
but it sounds like you're going to be working on
this app for quite a long time.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, so much to do.
Speaker 7 (20:18):
Yes, So what I always do with the young guys
is you have a lot of outreach programs that I
do back in my community, and it's always tailed back
to the innovation that I do. So I introduce them
to the aspect of STEM that is science, technology, engineering
and mathematics. Since I was a young scientist, Kenya Winna,
I have been in the innovation space for over three
(20:38):
years now, so just trying to tailor what I do
as a as a rider to what the community also
needs to know. So I do outreach programs. I do
you know, online talks. I give video conferences for youngers
to be able to understand how it is to be
in that tech field, especially in building solutions.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yes, that is so wonderful. Wow, great, great, great stuff.
Is the time take a break? Do you want to
do that? Now? Let's do the break, all right, we'll
be right back after these very very important messages to
come around. Do you have a complex dot net monolith
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(21:20):
and helps progressively extract code into micro services. Learn more
at aws dot Amazon dot com slash modernize. Now we're back.
It's dot net Rocks. I'm Carl Franklin. That's my friend
Richard Campbell. Hey, and we're here with the Imagined Cup finalists.
(21:40):
And I guess that brings us to you, Daniel Daniel Kim.
Of course it's probably no secret buy now, but your
team Argus won the Imagine Cup. So pig around of
applause for you.
Speaker 8 (21:55):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And the thing, well, first of all, tell us what
our argus is, and then I have so many questions.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
Okay, right, happy to answer any questions you may have.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
So Argus was primarily spawned out of our dorm room
where Arjene and I both met at Stanford three years
ago and we realized that we both really enjoyed building,
but we also realized we had a personal connection to
visual impairments because both our grandparents were aging into them
and just like seeing them no longer being able to
(22:29):
do things that they were able to do prior. It
was like we realized how much was taken for granted,
and we really wanted to find a way to give
them back that independence in their day to day lives
because I know my grandma, she's definitely like she's got
that pride and she enjoys being able to do things
on her own and she dislikes asking for help. So
(22:49):
it was definitely wanting to give that independence back. Kind
of spawned arguson and I guess I could talk more
about what argus is. So what we realize was that
there were a lot of accessibility gaps in what's already
out in the market. So I'm sure this is a
tech audience. You've seen something like the meta ray bands
and you're wondering, oh, why can't you just use that. Well,
(23:12):
for a couple of different reasons, we realized our grandparents
didn't really like them.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Sure.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
For one, they don't really directly address the accessibility needs
where one you're gonna have to like connect to Wi Fi.
So something that we decided to pursue is building this
hybrid system out where you have both edge compute, so
Argus's two piece device. There's a camera module that goes
(23:38):
on your glasses, frames.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
On your own glasses. You don't have to buy new glasses.
Speaker 8 (23:43):
It's very important, yeah, for sure. So just being able
to easily integrate that into someone's already existing I guess,
like habits in life.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Until it recognizes things in and tells you what it
doesn't speak, does it put a thing.
Speaker 8 (23:58):
On the screen, It gives audio feedback regarding whatever your
question was, so o cr or just like spatial awareness.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Reading letters and bills and mail and yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 8 (24:14):
And just like figuring out where you are relative in
a room. I think that's like incredibly helpful where it's
like I need to find where the exit is, I
don't really know how to get there. Yeah, So that's
so we're able to do simple tasks like that all
on the edge. So and we have a compute module
that goes in your pocket. And these two systems are
connected with the technology called hy Are, which is a
(24:38):
wireless communication method that uses your skin as a conduit
uses one hundred times less energy than something like that.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So this these are this is what I started looking
up because when you and it just kind of wasn't
an in passing comment during the you know, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Like, wait, what what did you say? So, yeah, it
used your skin.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
So I looked it up and it has a range
of like what five meters or something like that. It's
not bad and it uses your skin lower power consumption.
The one thing that and it's fascinating to me. The
one thing that I didn't read in the white paper
was latency. Like, you know, bluetooth has latency, right, and
(25:18):
so you can't use that for real time, but just
getting onto the YR thing, it probably doesn't matter all
that much for you guys, but do you have any
idea of what the latency is?
Speaker 8 (25:27):
Yeah, so the latency for us personally has been like
just a couple of seconds. So it's so what we've
been able to do is like a couple of time
saving strategies where it's like as soon as the user
starts talking, we start communicating with the compute.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Module stream it.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Yeah, so it's just like immediately what's going on. It
starts like figuring it out, and then by the time
of the end of the query, there's just like watching
out it. It's just like, yeah, catching up. I think
that's a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, and then just trimming a little that little extra
timeout so you can respond, you have more time to respond.
Speaker 8 (25:58):
To make it much more I guess, like I've seen
experience where you're not like, oh, now there's a big
like pause, but you are traveling to the cloud and back,
I imagine. So for simple tests, that's just all going
to be on the device on the device, and then
for more complex tests that's like, oh I want to
help me like reason something out, it's going to be
sending query to Azure ai foundry. So it's a hybrid model, right,
(26:20):
and it's a Raspberry Pie based thing, is it. Yeah,
so right, our prototype is using a Google Coral dev.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Board at the moment, right, So I've got a couple
of those USB it's a it's a little NPU essentially, yeah, yeah,
relatively expensive. Inexpensive at the time, but yeah for compute
to render some a small model.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 8 (26:41):
So like three years ago, Archie and I were like,
we don't have that much money, we got to like
figure out how to So we're just using a lot
of hobbyist grade we'rement built out our own camera module,
and it was just like from there we started building
out our prototypes.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
And the prototype for the camera module is what how
how big would you say?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It is? Like a inch and a half diameter or
something like that?
Speaker 8 (27:01):
Yeah, I would say like an inch and a half
and we're definitely gonna be able to shrink that down. Yeah,
So that's gonna be a next step as well, just
like miniaturization of the device.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
If you start thinking in terms of building purpose built
hardware with current generation tech, like A, you're gonna get
a lot more compute. B Yeah, you're gonna be able
to make it really compact.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah. You care about form factor a lot? Oh yeah
for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Have you had anybody ask you about the health ramifications
of the y R stuff? Is there is there any
concern about that? I mean, does it use uh what kind.
Speaker 8 (27:33):
Of I mean, there's no real concerns about health ramification.
So we're not too concerned about that being a factor
be considering Like it's like maybe if you're concerned about
five G you could be considered because so it's.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Like five it's a five G transmitter.
Speaker 8 (27:52):
Oh, I guess like the analogy I'm trying to make
is like, Okay, if you're worried about five G, then
I see, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Anybodys will be worried about turning on lights then yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That's the other thing about these close area networks is
they're really low power. I mean, the whole goal here
is to save energy. You need a lot of power
to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Oh it's like a hundred times less power than Wi Fi,
is it.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yeah, compare that to putting a cell phone up your head. Yeah,
that's a lot more energy.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But either way, no measurable effect. It's not a thing.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
So the thing, you know, the YR stuff is the
most exciting thing for me. I mean, obviously it's a
great product and it solves a problem. But this opens
up like a world of possibilities. And you were the
first one I've ever heard using this technology.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Handshaking and so forth for devices like that is a
real nuisance for people who aren't technical or like I said,
have side impairments so they can't see QR codes or
enter long passwords and things like that. The idea that
the close area network, the fact that you're close enough
to it is the handshake and so they just connect.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (28:58):
I think the idea is like you wanted it to
be something that just works right out of box. You
put it in your pocket, put it slided on your glasses,
and my grandma doesn't want to have to worry, Oh
do I have to download X y Z features or
do I have to set up Wi Fi? Yeah, these
are all things we just wanted to be able to,
you know, hand off to the elderly. Who are you know,
our biggest demographic for this issue. So I think making
(29:22):
it so that it just works out of the box
is something that was really important to us.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Very important. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
And the security part is the perimeter. It's it's small. Yeah,
it has to be close enough to you. Yeah, you
have to be like able to touch the person. And
then the second requirement is that you also have a
YR device as well, where it's like you're able to
receive some of that transmission, right, and yeah, that would
be like a really random thing to have to Yeah,
(29:47):
So we think that the security aspect of it is
also a big sell factor for us.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Sure do you have a patent on this?
Speaker 8 (29:55):
We are patent pending for the system. So yeah, we're
looking forward to continue building on and iterating on our
prototype scene.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Because I can see applications for this that go way
beyond sort of vision.
Speaker 8 (30:11):
Oh yeah, I think YR is going to be a
really interesting paradigm shift in the wearable space as a whole.
So definitely like really changes up the game in terms
of like what's possible.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I think, right, have you had any interest from Apple
or Android, Samsung or any of those guys.
Speaker 8 (30:29):
Not yet, but if they'd like to reach out, definitely listening.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
So I bet fantastic.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
All right, you're all finalists. Congratulations on winning. But I
guess you guys have all been on the ride, right,
like you did you only meet when you got here?
Did you already know each other?
Speaker 4 (30:45):
We only met when we got here, right, So we
had seen each other on video calls before.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Okay, So yeah, but you've been in contact just digitally
because you're in different parts of the world too, and
then now you've all been in.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Person for the first time coming here and to build
all right.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
He made it on I mean my experience running contests,
not like exactly like this one. We've done a variety contest, Like,
every finalist gets a lot of visibility. So yeah, winning
is awesome, but it's not the only thing. You made
it through a lot of players, a lot of different
projects and got got got on the front page. Like
to be interesting to see what happens you show an
your projects. They're pretty powerful projects.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Very very So your first time in Seattle, any of you?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah? In Seattle, all of us?
Speaker 5 (31:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Did you get to spend any time at Microsoft?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Did you? Guys? Did you take the campus?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
So we went on Sunday, but then we are also
going to go tomorrow for longer, so we'll be able
to see more stuff.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, that's great. Make them take you to the treehouses.
The tree houses are cool. Campus is huge, It's a
lot to see, but definitely do the tree Do.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
You have any appointments with you know, any of the
higher ups that.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Get a little sat your time.
Speaker 8 (31:53):
Oh yeah, I'm going to be getting a mentoring session
with Saudia, So that would be really cool. Getting ready
to figure out what kind of questions you want to
ask and make sure the best use.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Of the time. Absolutely.
Speaker 8 (32:06):
Yeah, so it's really exciting.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, no, very challenging.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
So what is it like to run a troll your
dollar company, because who knows the answer to that question.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Except that guy I'd be Chris Farley. You know, hey,
you remember Windows? That was awesome. I don't know what
to ask such a I guess I have questions.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
So where do you guys see your careers?
Speaker 7 (32:30):
So we will also be meeting the Microsoft chief executive
on accessibility. Awesome, Yes, together with tim agers because our
projects are tailor don't ensuring accessibility for people with disability.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So after these projects are done, what are your aspirations
for the future? I mean, do you want to continue
to be innovating in your vertical space? Do you want
to branch out? Do you want to do more general things?
What are your aspirations?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
O data?
Speaker 7 (33:04):
Okay, So I think for me it would be with
the team is still to pass you sign Verse because
it has connected us in a way that we are
also connected to the community because you're solving the problem
that is directly to the community we serve.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
So we're gonna passue sign Verse.
Speaker 7 (33:20):
At the same time with the different I'm still studying,
My teammates are also still studying, So it's gonna be
in a juggling school at the same time passuing.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Sign verse but you think sign versus your career, Yes, yes.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
It's gonna be part and passel off me.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
It's so cool, lucky to work on the thing that
matters most to you, of course, and then also end
up in a magic cup with it.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
How about you, Matt Oh Yeah, So I guess the
big thing that has really emerged for me is that
I realized that the only constant really has changed, and
so I can't predict exactly what I'm going to be
doing in the future. We're going to try and continue
to scale hair Match. I've also made a bunch of
other apps as well. Right the core theam that I
try and hold myself too is I I really just
(34:02):
love building products for people. And if I'm movable to
build products for people that other people are not willing
to make, I think that's an impact that I really
believe in. And so, you know, I guess the next
step for me is really I just want a million
people to use something sure that I've made, and then
you know, maybe someday a billion.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
So you're staying in the app development sphere, what you
don't know exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Where that's going to lead you, but that's where you're
going to be.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Yeah, currently, app development could could move into something else.
It really depends on whatever people are using as their
primary device. I will either hopefully be that device, or
I will be an application on it.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
It might be an argist device for you know.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, exactly the moment. But you know, phone has been
around for a while now. I think we're ready for
a disruption there. Okay, Daniel, what's what's uh? What do
you see in the future.
Speaker 8 (34:48):
Yeah, I mean there's definitely a couple of different pathways
forward from here.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
M H.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
I mean, in particular, a lot of doors have opened
up for us and our team, and we want to
continue building in the same vertical. So as we continue
you to build out our iterations of prototypes and figure
out what the final prototype is going to look like,
we'd like to obviously expand that out to BEATA users.
So that's going to be the next big step for us,
and I think primarily as we continue figuring out I
(35:14):
think I got some great advice from Han Yang from
Microsoft or startups. He said that, you know, it's important
to also be able to understand like you need to
be able to understand like when you need to pivot
and figure out if if this is like something the
consumers actually need yea, rather than this just being like, oh,
now you're being stubborn about it. So, while we're going
(35:36):
to continue trying to solve the problem of accessibility, I
think like the ways in the form factors in that
comes may be shifting, but I think that's like, yeah,
building it with empathy at its core is something that
we're deeply passionate about and deeply connected to. So and
we also just want to remind the world that, you know,
accessibility shouldn't be treated as a feature, it should be
(35:57):
treated as a human right. Yeah, So I think that's
what we also would be want to continue reminding people
as we continue building. So yeah, I think that's what
Argus's future looks like.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I don't know about you, guys, but I've had this
experience many times and I continue to have it where
a friend that I haven't met or talked to in
years says, hey, let's go out for a beer. I
want to pick your brain about an app idea that
I have, right, And it always ends up here's the
idea and here's what we'll do. I'll design it, you
(36:28):
build it, and we'll split.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
The profits, right, right, So I know that.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
The first question I ask is does this app already exist?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Like have you done your homework?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
And you know most of the time they haven't, but
they say, yeah, I don't think so. So I'm like,
all right, well before we first of all, here's my rate. Right,
it's going to cost you fifty grand to get a prototype,
and you know, so are you still interested?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Right, I'm not splitting the profits with you on a spec.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
So do you have people come up to you all
the time and are any has any has that ever happened?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (37:05):
I do get this quite a lot. Yeah, just generally.
So for me, we really built hair Match in public,
so we would post on Instagram reels you know, oh
this is what we did today building it, this is
what we did that day. I posted videos like that
for one hundred and eighty one day straight.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
And through that I had a couple million impressions. I
would get multiple dms per week of people saying, oh,
I want to work with you, I want to work
with you, or you'd get stuff like oh I want
to work with you for free? Yeah, but really it's
always that they want something more out of you, so
like you will ever like get out of them. And
so there are rare instances where you know, you might
(37:45):
you might connect with somebody online who really will make
an impact long term with you, but it's very rare,
and so there's a lot of noise with that where
you just have to figure out, Okay, does this person
actually want to make a difference or are they just
doing this because they they want to have a like
a by not really putting into work.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
We get the same thing with that. Most of the
time people just don't understand what the work involves.
Speaker 8 (38:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
That's also like you've got the app out the door,
it's in the store, you know, a bunch of things.
A lot of people don't know because it's way harder
than you think it is. It seems simple, but when
you actually go through every one of those steps and
finally see your app appear in the store, you've been
through some stuff. And then it's hard to talk to
someone who's just never done that and they think they
(38:26):
trivialize all those efforts.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Oh yeah, and we.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Get the same thing with the podcast. You know, people
want to be guests on our show, and usually they're
just selling something or you know, the stuff that our
listeners don't care.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
About, so we just let a lot of it go.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, all right, yeah, so we know what's next for you.
But that's usually a question I asked, but you've kind
of already answered it. But you're you're going to continue
working on this stuff. You're going to take it to
the next job.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
But none of you finished school yet either, like you
still have school.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I did just gratch congratulation, Thank you, going back for more.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Are you going to go to work?
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I'm going I'm just.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
But that's you know, the crazy part for me is
thinking you still got classes?
Speaker 8 (39:11):
Yes, yeah, all these other things Tomorrow my team.
Speaker 7 (39:15):
Joint classes at four in the morning before coming.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
To on the other side of the world of course difference.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
Yea, so it's a bit crazy, but.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, that's great. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Well, congratulations to you all again and amazing job. Congratulations
Daniel on August. It's it's you guys are amazing.
Speaker 8 (39:35):
Yeah, of course, it's been incredible honor meeting everyone here.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
All right, Well, thanks for being awesome and thank you
for listening, and we'll talk to you next time on
dot net rocks. Dot net Rocks is brought to you
(40:06):
by Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, a full
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at pwop dot com.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
Visit our website at d O T N E t
R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,
mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going
back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand
and two. And make sure you check out our sponsors.
They keep us in business. Now go write some code.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
See you next time.
Speaker 8 (40:42):
You got javans at
How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Easy?
Speaker 1 (00:05):
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up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey
(00:34):
guess what. It's dot net rocks from build. I'm Carl
Franklin Capel. We've been here for three days. This is
our third day, and I think it's our third day.
It's our third day, yeah, yeah, and we're here where
the Imagined Cup finalists. Representatives from each of the three
teams are going to interview them in a minute. But
first let's talk about better know a framework.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Roll the crazy music? All right? Man? What do you got?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I went searching again for things repos on GitHub that
are trending, and the number one repo right now is
WSL because.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Interesting just Windows Subsystem for Linux. Yeah, because they just
open it, just open starts it.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
But before that, this one has been at the top
AI hedge fund.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Okay, what's that? Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Absolutely I haven't run it, but it's a proof of
concept for an AI powered hedge fund. The goal of
the project is to explore the use of AI to
make trading decisions. This project is for educational purposes only
and is not intended for real trading or investment.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
It seems like a great way to lose a lot
of money fast.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, But here's the cool thing if you think about it. It
employs several agents working together. So this is a great
example of agentic programming. The Aswaff demo, Darin agent, the
dean of valuation, focuses on story numbers and discipline value.
All right, I'm not going to read them all, but
one of them is Charlie Munger, right, Barren Buffert's partner
(02:07):
only buys wonderful businesses at fair prices. Michael Burry agent
the big short contrarian who hunts for deep value. Peter Lynch,
Phil Fisher, Stanley Druckenmeiler. Now the question is what do
they train this on their data? You know they're trading
data apparently, and you know they have big disclaimers. But
(02:27):
it's very popular, and that makes me wonder how good
it is.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
You know what they say, past results do not indicate
future results.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
No, you're right about that, but I think you know
understanding what we do about AI. It's either that it's
really good clickbait and got a lot of people to
download it, or it's working for some people.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I don't know either one of those is true, but
something's happening for sure. Okay, So that's it.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
That's weird AI things. And this one's pretty popular, So
who's talking to us? Gravity comment to Show nineteen forty eight,
the one we did with Rob MenShing. We were talking
about the open source maintenance fee and just trying to
make open source more sustainable. Got a lot of comments
on that show. Actually, this one comes from Rob King,
who says, in my experience of using open source in
a commercial setting, the biggest barrier is the financial apparatus
(03:14):
to get money to pay for maintenance. We talked about
this on the show.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
There are often forms to fill out and people to
convince to get that payment. I suspective companies just gave
devs a small annual stipend to spend on open source
project the money would flow more readily. After all, if
I've taken a dependency on open source project, I've already
done its cost benefit analysis that seems very optimistic. Actually, Rob,
mostly I had a problem and I made that problem
go away. The actual money change part should be as
(03:41):
low frish as possible. I came at this a different
way during the show, where it's because I, of course
have worked with CFOs. It's like, Hey, if we had
a mechanism so a CFO could put one chunk of
money once a year and it would distribute into open
source based on utilization, they'd probably do that. Just a
question of how hard that mechanism is developed. But Rob,
I appreciate your thoughts, and a copy of Music Cobey
(04:03):
is on its way to you. And if you'd like
a copy of Musico buy I write a comment on
the website at dot NetRocks dot com or on the
facebooks we publish every show there. And if you comment
there and I read it on the show, was that
your copy of music Kobe?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And for those who don't know, music to code by
is music that you put on in the background while
you're trying to focus. It's not distracting, it's not boring,
and it is scientifically based in what I should I say,
it's based in science in a study about the aspects
of music that help people focus.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
So yeah, there's after they did that show with Mark Semen.
We were talking about flow and focus and you then
made a thing.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I made a thing.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So there's twenty two tracks now they're twenty five minutes
each to correspond with a Pomodora technique and you get
them at musicdocodebuy dot net, or as Richard said, by
sending us a comment, Okay, let us talk about the
imagined cup we have, right, you know what, You're right,
we should do nineteen fifty six, but I did not
prepare anything. So this is episode nineteen fifty six. And
(05:00):
what we've been doing lately is talking about what happened
that year in world events. M So, I don't know
you've got something up there.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
We're beginning of the Suez crisis. Oh, that was the
invasion of Britain and trying to control that the waterway there,
which is very big deal. Yeah, and the first time
Elvis Presley became famous, right, the first detection of a
neutrinoy an undetectable particle.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
An undetectable particle that can go through walls and lead
and everything else. How did they even detect it with really?
Once in a while the Trino's decay. It's very rare
and by far most importantly, General Electric releases the first
snoozeable alarm clock. Wow, there you go, but then you
couldn't snooze.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I wonder if it sounded like modern techno music.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I'm thinking that's the thing. The beat nineteen fifty six.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, so all right, well there's more stuff to talk
about in nineteen fifty six, but we want to talk
to the Imagined Cup finalists builds. So we have representatives
of each team, just one representative from each team. So
I'll start with Matt. Matt Steele is on the hair
Match team. He's a Georgia Tech computer science grad with
(06:13):
a concentration in AI and embedded systems. He has published
more than five apps to the iOS app Store with
over twenty thousand monthly active users. Matt's also a former
US Olympic Trials qualifier in swimming and took fifth place
at the US Open in swimming.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Wow. How about that?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And on top of that, you're in the Imagined Cup
Finalists And so that's from the hair Match team. Guida
Abdallah Omar is on the sign Verse team, and she
is a passionate innovator and project associative Signverse that's sign
v r S, where she leverages technology to address social challenges.
(06:54):
Is the founder of Girls I Save, an initiative empowering
girls in STEM and advocating against gender based violence. She
brings a strong commitment to community driven tax solutions. A
Guide is also a Generation Connect Youth envoy with the ITU,
a judge for Young Scientists Kenya, and a recognized change
(07:16):
maker in the Coastal region of Kenya. Her work combines
information technology, advocacy and innovation to create inclusive, impactful change.
Welcome and Daniel Kim is studying math in neuroscience at
Stamford and seeing his grandmother struggle with her visual impairment,
Daniel was inspired to pursue Argus, which is one of
(07:38):
the teams in the finalists. In his free time, he
loves spending time with animals in any capacity he can. Okay, well,
welcome guys to dot ne Rocks and congratulations, thank you
for having us. You bet, Matt, Let's start with you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So here.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Match is the team that you are on and tell
us a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah sure.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Hair Match is a mobile app which allows women with
curly hair to take pictures of their hair, and then
we use AI to be able to determine their hair type,
and from there we've done the R and D to
be able to curate products based on their specific hair
type that work for them. And so there's a very
big problem with curly hair care where people will spend
a lot of money on products and then the products
(08:23):
don't actually work for their hair because there's something really
specific about that one product, you know, might be one
chemical or one molecule that's often the formulation that doesn't
work for that person's hair type. And then you end
up with a bunch of products under yourself. And so
my co founder, Relisha, has very very curly, very long hair,
and this is a problem that she faced first.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I imagine just I've seen shelves like that just yeah,
bottles that were used once.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, just you know, you use it once, but once
you use it once, you can't return it. And so
she just had this. She called it the shelf of shame.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So it's like our phones.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
And so I've been friends with her since we interned
together about two years ago. We were both college athletes.
She cheered at University of North Carolina and I swam
at Georgia Tech, and so we just became friends over that,
and then eventually we both are really interested in building things,
and so we decided to make hair match and that's
kind of how it was born.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Now she's technological also, or was she just interested in
the problem.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
So she she is technical, she can code, but she
primarily her strengths are in the media and the product
side of things, and so primarily those two things were
her focus on the team. And then she has a
very very deep understanding of the problem because she is
the customer.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Of her Perfect Perfect Domain Expert.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
So people listening might be going, what you know, that
seems kind of silly, But you know, I have two
stepdaughters with curly hair, and they struggled all their growing
up lives and into adulthood probably still do now with
this problem. I'm you know, straightening hair was and just
combing it could be a huge shoe, right, And some
(10:01):
people want to straighten curly hair. Some people want to
have smaller curls when they have big curls. Like there's
a whole bunch of styling things and just maintenance.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, and there's a lot of societal pressure as well
on people with curly hair and either straighten it or
to keep it in very traditional hairstyles. They've been commonly
accepted in the workplace for decades here especially, I guess
primarily in the US because that's where we're based out of.
But you know, one of the things that Alicia and
I believe in is we want people to be able
to have equal opportunity professionally and from a self confidence
(10:32):
perspective as well, and so being able to build something
that directly improves people's ability to style their hair and
leave their confidence is great.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
We can go to the app store and download hair
Match right now.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Yeah, it's been live for six months now.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Actually, wow, what's the response been.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
The response has been great. So in the app, we
did for a while have my phone number in there.
People could just text me if there was a problem,
and I would just get these texts at random hours
of the day like I love this, this is amazing, guys,
you're doing great. We get emails like that as well,
and so the response has been overwhelmingly positive, and that's
something that we've really enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Talk to me about the workflow, like, how does people
use the app.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah, So a user will download the app from the
app Store and they go through onboarding. We ask them
a few questions about their experience with hair and the
sort of what they already know versus not, so we
can tailor the experience a little bit to that. Then
the primary magic is we have them take two pictures
of their hair very up close in good lighting, so
we're able to actually.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
See that in the more in detail.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
We process that using a visual transformer that we run
in Azure ai foundry, and we're able to get the
hair type. Once we get that hair type, we give
them a nice little savable card that they can save
to the chemeeral. It's like, oh, this is your hair analysis.
It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
We it's like five or six different categories that you
check exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
We have five different properties on that card that they
can see. And then from there they're able to enter
the app and they can go to the product recommendations list,
which is curated directly for their specific match of those properties,
and it goes, Okay, this is what this person needs,
and it shows them only those products, and they're all
sorted by the category as well, so whether it's gel,
(12:08):
whether it's shampoo, whether it's conditioner, they can get easy
access to those. And so instead of having to go
to a store and you have, you know, a million
products on the shelves, you don't know which ones actually
work for you unless you, you know, look each one
up one by one, and you have to go to
some obscure web page to find that. We have that
information all in front of the user, all at once,
and it's very streamlined, very easy.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
And of course my instinct is now you'll go to
the store with the list and look at that. Was like, no,
you won't, You'll go on Amazon in order.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
And so the other thing we do is we have
links to every single product inside the app, so we
don't actually sell the products, but we connect the people
to the source. And so what we've actually been able
to do with that is we are able to offer
discounts on those products because we reach out to the
brand and manufacturers that we've found through our R and.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
D to be a monetizing strategy.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Then, not necessarily for the modestation, we did it more
for the customer. We do get the small affiliates, but
it's been primarily good for us because we're able to
not only you know, give the customer exactly what they want,
but we can also save the money, which is really
really cool.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, that is cool and congratulations, that's a great thing.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Just curious and any of you can answer this. How
many other teams did you guys beat out to get
in the top three?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
A lot? But yeah, the match kept huge.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah, I think it was. There were over fifteen thousand
students that participated.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
This year, one and fifty countries.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So just being here and you guys were on stage
right before the keynote, yes, on the first day of build.
That must have been really exciting.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was. It was amazing, Just a
great experience to be up there. You know, you look
into the crowd and you know, the lights are a
little bit blinding on stage, but you can see so
many people and it really hits you in that moment
that you know.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
You're there thousands of people in them.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Yeah, it's like you've made something impact.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
We have been hundreds of yers watching online.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yeah, not the freaky out that it was like thinking,
you know, there are almost as many people in there
as we had users on hair Match in the first
couple of months. Sure, that's insane.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah. Well, also realization like that, how many people you
attached to? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah, it seems like a niche product, but clearly for
a certain group of folks it's really important, really important.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
We estimate that there are probably about a billion people
or more that could benefit from our product in this
current state.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Wow, should we switch to you gata? Should we talk
about sign Verse?
Speaker 6 (14:29):
Of course?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah? So what is the product and tell us about?
Speaker 7 (14:33):
The sign Verse is an AI pod platform that chooses
three D avatar to convert speech and text to real
time sign language interpretation.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Wow. Wow, that's really cool.
Speaker 7 (14:44):
So in basic what it's communication breaking the barriers between
a person who's had of hearing and a person who
can hear, because sometimes it becomes very challenging when people
you know, communicate and someone cannot hear.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
So with the app, you can be able to type
in list hello, good morning.
Speaker 7 (15:00):
So the avatar will be able to do the sign language,
and then the person who is next will be able
to see that through the application. So you can either
use text or speech and making communications simless for both
the hearing and the head of here.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So I could hold up my phone just talk and
it's going to do the.
Speaker 7 (15:16):
Sign language, Yes, absolutely, And we drove the inspiration because
Brandis and I used to participate in Young Scientist Kenya
That's Pack Home, and we used to do robotics training
for young children and one time we found ourselves in
a situation where the students that we're supposed to train
were not able to hear, like the head of hearing
(15:37):
and some of them were completely deaf. And you know,
the amount of signed interpreters in the room like what
to go to different classes, so there was already a gap.
We had to you know, find ways to be able
to bring that message right in terms of coding and
talking to the student. But ever since then we realize
there is a gap actually, and then we met Daniel
(15:57):
who is one of our team who literally had to
switch from being a computer student to being in the
business because the school did not have sign language interpreters
for that cause. So you can imagine the change he
literally had to switch. And you know, it also comes
with a lot of emotions to these people, they feel neglated.
The community, you know, pushes them away because of the
(16:19):
stigma of them not being able to hear. And that's
why we were driven to, you know, create a technology
that's going to focus more on providing real time sign
language interpretation at different levels.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So you just mentioned sign language interpretations, so this app
will also you can hold it up to somebody who's
signing and it will say the words to you.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
So that is like a future vision that we want
to do.
Speaker 7 (16:41):
For our first product, it's just converting speech to text
and then to sign language. But in future we believe
that we will be able to do the vice versa.
And that's why we have signed verse so that we
can go from sign to verse and back.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yesh wow.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Because we used to have remember the Connect Microsoft Connect
and it could track all of your joints in three
D space. Yes, I think it was twenty twenty frames
pertective like that, So there were applications that use that.
But I think it wouldn't be more challenging on a
phone to go from straight video to generative AI now right.
Speaker 7 (17:18):
Yes, we're actually trying to incorporate the use of AI
to be able to make it more seamless and more
interactive because.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Even that Spelton tracking had problem with hands. Yeah, and
sign of course it depends on the flavor signed too,
doesn't it.
Speaker 7 (17:30):
Yes, we have different sign language and because of the
motion capture suits that we acquired and we incorporate the
different data sets from Kenyan sign language to Ruandan Sign
language to even SL So in future we're hoping to
incorporate or different sign language based on the context of
the country and the community that it.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Comes literally country to country, the sign language varias.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
Yeah, even in Kenyan Sign language itself, it's narrowed down
to different community sign language stylists.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yes, yeah, regular language.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
It's just a language.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
It's just that it's now in form of you know,
hand motion gestures and stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
When you have your every area, every dialect has its
own idioms and things like that.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yes, other people may not.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Understand just collecting all that data it's going to be
really powerful, exactly, But I don't know that there's a
good repository for.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
All of the variations.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
We're actually finding very hard in Africa to get like
a very concrete data set when it comes to sign
language interpretation. So far, we've gotten over twenty three hundred
glosses in terms of the sign language interpretation, but we're
looking forward to expanding to around two hundred and fifty
thousand in the first phase and then five hundred thousand closses,
so it's actually a lot.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
A very definitive collection exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yes, so in as signed verse in the app stores
and downloadable now.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
So we've not been able to have it fully installed,
but it's live. You can be able to access it,
but it's not on the download for because we are
still trying to ensure that it is accessible enough.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And yes, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
This is amazing and your cause, like I imagine after this,
you've got another several things on your to do list.
What's your plan for the future.
Speaker 7 (19:11):
So just like I mentioned, we are planning to really
expand in terms of the data because that is one
of the most critical aspects we need to input in
our platform. So we are looking at expanding beyond just
Kenyan sign language to Rwandan and different African sign language
and then also incorporate different you know, business model in
terms of industries where communication is critical, just like in
(19:34):
the healthcare just imagine you're going to the doctor and
the doctor is not able to understand you. So tailoring
our platform to you know, contextual to healthcare system, you know,
transport system, like we're having communications with Kenya Airways, so
that we ensure like whatever communication is there, our platform
is also there to help people with the hairing close.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So I guess my question was, Okay, after this app
is done, yes, then you'll probably move on the other
thing because you're you know, the causes that you're talking
about with girls and young girls.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I imagine you know you've thought about what to do next,
but it sounds like you're going to be working on
this app for quite a long time.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, so much to do.
Speaker 7 (20:18):
Yes, So what I always do with the young guys
is you have a lot of outreach programs that I
do back in my community, and it's always tailed back
to the innovation that I do. So I introduce them
to the aspect of STEM that is science, technology, engineering
and mathematics. Since I was a young scientist, Kenya Winna,
I have been in the innovation space for over three
(20:38):
years now, so just trying to tailor what I do
as a as a rider to what the community also
needs to know. So I do outreach programs. I do
you know, online talks. I give video conferences for youngers
to be able to understand how it is to be
in that tech field, especially in building solutions.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yes, that is so wonderful. Wow, great, great, great stuff.
Is the time take a break? Do you want to
do that? Now? Let's do the break, all right, we'll
be right back after these very very important messages to
come around. Do you have a complex dot net monolith
you'd like to refactor to a micro services architecture. The
micro Service Extractor for dot Net tool visualizes your app
(21:20):
and helps progressively extract code into micro services. Learn more
at aws dot Amazon dot com slash modernize. Now we're back.
It's dot net Rocks. I'm Carl Franklin. That's my friend
Richard Campbell. Hey, and we're here with the Imagined Cup finalists.
(21:40):
And I guess that brings us to you, Daniel Daniel Kim.
Of course it's probably no secret buy now, but your
team Argus won the Imagine Cup. So pig around of
applause for you.
Speaker 8 (21:55):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And the thing, well, first of all, tell us what
our argus is, and then I have so many questions.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
Okay, right, happy to answer any questions you may have.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Okay.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
So Argus was primarily spawned out of our dorm room
where Arjene and I both met at Stanford three years
ago and we realized that we both really enjoyed building,
but we also realized we had a personal connection to
visual impairments because both our grandparents were aging into them
and just like seeing them no longer being able to
(22:29):
do things that they were able to do prior. It
was like we realized how much was taken for granted,
and we really wanted to find a way to give
them back that independence in their day to day lives
because I know my grandma, she's definitely like she's got
that pride and she enjoys being able to do things
on her own and she dislikes asking for help. So
(22:49):
it was definitely wanting to give that independence back. Kind
of spawned arguson and I guess I could talk more
about what argus is. So what we realize was that
there were a lot of accessibility gaps in what's already
out in the market. So I'm sure this is a
tech audience. You've seen something like the meta ray bands
and you're wondering, oh, why can't you just use that. Well,
(23:12):
for a couple of different reasons, we realized our grandparents
didn't really like them.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Sure.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
For one, they don't really directly address the accessibility needs
where one you're gonna have to like connect to Wi Fi.
So something that we decided to pursue is building this
hybrid system out where you have both edge compute, so
Argus's two piece device. There's a camera module that goes
(23:38):
on your glasses, frames.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
On your own glasses. You don't have to buy new glasses.
Speaker 8 (23:43):
It's very important, yeah, for sure. So just being able
to easily integrate that into someone's already existing I guess,
like habits in life.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Until it recognizes things in and tells you what it
doesn't speak, does it put a thing.
Speaker 8 (23:58):
On the screen, It gives audio feedback regarding whatever your
question was, so o cr or just like spatial awareness.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Reading letters and bills and mail and yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 8 (24:14):
And just like figuring out where you are relative in
a room. I think that's like incredibly helpful where it's
like I need to find where the exit is, I
don't really know how to get there. Yeah, So that's
so we're able to do simple tasks like that all
on the edge. So and we have a compute module
that goes in your pocket. And these two systems are
connected with the technology called hy Are, which is a
(24:38):
wireless communication method that uses your skin as a conduit
uses one hundred times less energy than something like that.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So this these are this is what I started looking
up because when you and it just kind of wasn't
an in passing comment during the you know, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Like, wait, what what did you say? So, yeah, it
used your skin.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
So I looked it up and it has a range
of like what five meters or something like that. It's
not bad and it uses your skin lower power consumption.
The one thing that and it's fascinating to me. The
one thing that I didn't read in the white paper
was latency. Like, you know, bluetooth has latency, right, and
(25:18):
so you can't use that for real time, but just
getting onto the YR thing, it probably doesn't matter all
that much for you guys, but do you have any
idea of what the latency is?
Speaker 8 (25:27):
Yeah, so the latency for us personally has been like
just a couple of seconds. So it's so what we've
been able to do is like a couple of time
saving strategies where it's like as soon as the user
starts talking, we start communicating with the compute.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Module stream it.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Yeah, so it's just like immediately what's going on. It
starts like figuring it out, and then by the time
of the end of the query, there's just like watching
out it. It's just like, yeah, catching up. I think
that's a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, and then just trimming a little that little extra
timeout so you can respond, you have more time to respond.
Speaker 8 (25:58):
To make it much more I guess, like I've seen
experience where you're not like, oh, now there's a big
like pause, but you are traveling to the cloud and back,
I imagine. So for simple tests, that's just all going
to be on the device on the device, and then
for more complex tests that's like, oh I want to
help me like reason something out, it's going to be
sending query to Azure ai foundry. So it's a hybrid model, right,
(26:20):
and it's a Raspberry Pie based thing, is it. Yeah,
so right, our prototype is using a Google Coral dev.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Board at the moment, right, So I've got a couple
of those USB it's a it's a little NPU essentially, yeah, yeah,
relatively expensive. Inexpensive at the time, but yeah for compute
to render some a small model.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 8 (26:41):
So like three years ago, Archie and I were like,
we don't have that much money, we got to like
figure out how to So we're just using a lot
of hobbyist grade we'rement built out our own camera module,
and it was just like from there we started building
out our prototypes.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
And the prototype for the camera module is what how
how big would you say?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It is? Like a inch and a half diameter or
something like that?
Speaker 8 (27:01):
Yeah, I would say like an inch and a half
and we're definitely gonna be able to shrink that down. Yeah,
So that's gonna be a next step as well, just
like miniaturization of the device.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
If you start thinking in terms of building purpose built
hardware with current generation tech, like A, you're gonna get
a lot more compute. B Yeah, you're gonna be able
to make it really compact.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah. You care about form factor a lot? Oh yeah
for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Have you had anybody ask you about the health ramifications
of the y R stuff? Is there is there any
concern about that? I mean, does it use uh what kind.
Speaker 8 (27:33):
Of I mean, there's no real concerns about health ramification.
So we're not too concerned about that being a factor
be considering Like it's like maybe if you're concerned about
five G you could be considered because so it's.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Like five it's a five G transmitter.
Speaker 8 (27:52):
Oh, I guess like the analogy I'm trying to make
is like, Okay, if you're worried about five G, then
I see, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Anybodys will be worried about turning on lights then yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That's the other thing about these close area networks is
they're really low power. I mean, the whole goal here
is to save energy. You need a lot of power
to do that.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Oh it's like a hundred times less power than Wi Fi,
is it.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yeah, compare that to putting a cell phone up your head. Yeah,
that's a lot more energy.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
But either way, no measurable effect. It's not a thing.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
So the thing, you know, the YR stuff is the
most exciting thing for me. I mean, obviously it's a
great product and it solves a problem. But this opens
up like a world of possibilities. And you were the
first one I've ever heard using this technology.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Handshaking and so forth for devices like that is a
real nuisance for people who aren't technical or like I said,
have side impairments so they can't see QR codes or
enter long passwords and things like that. The idea that
the close area network, the fact that you're close enough
to it is the handshake and so they just connect.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (28:58):
I think the idea is like you wanted it to
be something that just works right out of box. You
put it in your pocket, put it slided on your glasses,
and my grandma doesn't want to have to worry, Oh
do I have to download X y Z features or
do I have to set up Wi Fi? Yeah, these
are all things we just wanted to be able to,
you know, hand off to the elderly. Who are you know,
our biggest demographic for this issue. So I think making
(29:22):
it so that it just works out of the box
is something that was really important to us.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Very important. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
And the security part is the perimeter. It's it's small. Yeah,
it has to be close enough to you. Yeah, you
have to be like able to touch the person. And
then the second requirement is that you also have a
YR device as well, where it's like you're able to
receive some of that transmission, right, and yeah, that would
be like a really random thing to have to Yeah,
(29:47):
So we think that the security aspect of it is
also a big sell factor for us.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Sure do you have a patent on this?
Speaker 8 (29:55):
We are patent pending for the system. So yeah, we're
looking forward to continue building on and iterating on our
prototype scene.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Because I can see applications for this that go way
beyond sort of vision.
Speaker 8 (30:11):
Oh yeah, I think YR is going to be a
really interesting paradigm shift in the wearable space as a whole.
So definitely like really changes up the game in terms
of like what's possible.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I think, right, have you had any interest from Apple
or Android, Samsung or any of those guys.
Speaker 8 (30:29):
Not yet, but if they'd like to reach out, definitely listening.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
So I bet fantastic.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
All right, you're all finalists. Congratulations on winning. But I
guess you guys have all been on the ride, right,
like you did you only meet when you got here?
Did you already know each other?
Speaker 4 (30:45):
We only met when we got here, right, So we
had seen each other on video calls before.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Okay, So yeah, but you've been in contact just digitally
because you're in different parts of the world too, and
then now you've all been in.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Person for the first time coming here and to build
all right.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
He made it on I mean my experience running contests,
not like exactly like this one. We've done a variety contest, Like,
every finalist gets a lot of visibility. So yeah, winning
is awesome, but it's not the only thing. You made
it through a lot of players, a lot of different
projects and got got got on the front page. Like
to be interesting to see what happens you show an
your projects. They're pretty powerful projects.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Very very So your first time in Seattle, any of you?
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Yeah? In Seattle, all of us?
Speaker 5 (31:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Did you get to spend any time at Microsoft?
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Did you? Guys? Did you take the campus?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
So we went on Sunday, but then we are also
going to go tomorrow for longer, so we'll be able
to see more stuff.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Yeah, that's great. Make them take you to the treehouses.
The tree houses are cool. Campus is huge, It's a
lot to see, but definitely do the tree Do.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
You have any appointments with you know, any of the
higher ups that.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Get a little sat your time.
Speaker 8 (31:53):
Oh yeah, I'm going to be getting a mentoring session
with Saudia, So that would be really cool. Getting ready
to figure out what kind of questions you want to
ask and make sure the best use.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Of the time. Absolutely.
Speaker 8 (32:06):
Yeah, so it's really exciting.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, no, very challenging.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
So what is it like to run a troll your
dollar company, because who knows the answer to that question.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Except that guy I'd be Chris Farley. You know, hey,
you remember Windows? That was awesome. I don't know what
to ask such a I guess I have questions.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
So where do you guys see your careers?
Speaker 7 (32:30):
So we will also be meeting the Microsoft chief executive
on accessibility. Awesome, Yes, together with tim agers because our
projects are tailor don't ensuring accessibility for people with disability.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So after these projects are done, what are your aspirations
for the future? I mean, do you want to continue
to be innovating in your vertical space? Do you want
to branch out? Do you want to do more general things?
What are your aspirations?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
O data?
Speaker 7 (33:04):
Okay, So I think for me it would be with
the team is still to pass you sign Verse because
it has connected us in a way that we are
also connected to the community because you're solving the problem
that is directly to the community we serve.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
So we're gonna passue sign Verse.
Speaker 7 (33:20):
At the same time with the different I'm still studying,
My teammates are also still studying, So it's gonna be
in a juggling school at the same time passuing.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Sign verse but you think sign versus your career, Yes, yes.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
It's gonna be part and passel off me.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
It's so cool, lucky to work on the thing that
matters most to you, of course, and then also end
up in a magic cup with it.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
How about you, Matt Oh Yeah, So I guess the
big thing that has really emerged for me is that
I realized that the only constant really has changed, and
so I can't predict exactly what I'm going to be
doing in the future. We're going to try and continue
to scale hair Match. I've also made a bunch of
other apps as well. Right the core theam that I
try and hold myself too is I I really just
(34:02):
love building products for people. And if I'm movable to
build products for people that other people are not willing
to make, I think that's an impact that I really
believe in. And so, you know, I guess the next
step for me is really I just want a million
people to use something sure that I've made, and then
you know, maybe someday a billion.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
So you're staying in the app development sphere, what you
don't know exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Where that's going to lead you, but that's where you're
going to be.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Yeah, currently, app development could could move into something else.
It really depends on whatever people are using as their
primary device. I will either hopefully be that device, or
I will be an application on it.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
It might be an argist device for you know.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, exactly the moment. But you know, phone has been
around for a while now. I think we're ready for
a disruption there. Okay, Daniel, what's what's uh? What do
you see in the future.
Speaker 8 (34:48):
Yeah, I mean there's definitely a couple of different pathways
forward from here.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
M H.
Speaker 8 (34:52):
I mean, in particular, a lot of doors have opened
up for us and our team, and we want to
continue building in the same vertical. So as we continue
you to build out our iterations of prototypes and figure
out what the final prototype is going to look like,
we'd like to obviously expand that out to BEATA users.
So that's going to be the next big step for us,
and I think primarily as we continue figuring out I
(35:14):
think I got some great advice from Han Yang from
Microsoft or startups. He said that, you know, it's important
to also be able to understand like you need to
be able to understand like when you need to pivot
and figure out if if this is like something the
consumers actually need yea, rather than this just being like, oh,
now you're being stubborn about it. So, while we're going
(35:36):
to continue trying to solve the problem of accessibility, I
think like the ways in the form factors in that
comes may be shifting, but I think that's like, yeah,
building it with empathy at its core is something that
we're deeply passionate about and deeply connected to. So and
we also just want to remind the world that, you know,
accessibility shouldn't be treated as a feature, it should be
(35:57):
treated as a human right. Yeah, So I think that's
what we also would be want to continue reminding people
as we continue building. So yeah, I think that's what
Argus's future looks like.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I don't know about you, guys, but I've had this
experience many times and I continue to have it where
a friend that I haven't met or talked to in
years says, hey, let's go out for a beer. I
want to pick your brain about an app idea that
I have, right, And it always ends up here's the
idea and here's what we'll do. I'll design it, you
(36:28):
build it, and we'll split.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
The profits, right, right, So I know that.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
The first question I ask is does this app already exist?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Like have you done your homework?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
And you know most of the time they haven't, but
they say, yeah, I don't think so. So I'm like,
all right, well before we first of all, here's my rate. Right,
it's going to cost you fifty grand to get a prototype,
and you know, so are you still interested?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Right, I'm not splitting the profits with you on a spec.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
So do you have people come up to you all
the time and are any has any has that ever happened?
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (37:05):
I do get this quite a lot. Yeah, just generally.
So for me, we really built hair Match in public,
so we would post on Instagram reels you know, oh
this is what we did today building it, this is
what we did that day. I posted videos like that
for one hundred and eighty one day straight.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
And through that I had a couple million impressions. I
would get multiple dms per week of people saying, oh,
I want to work with you, I want to work
with you, or you'd get stuff like oh I want
to work with you for free? Yeah, but really it's
always that they want something more out of you, so
like you will ever like get out of them. And
so there are rare instances where you know, you might
(37:45):
you might connect with somebody online who really will make
an impact long term with you, but it's very rare,
and so there's a lot of noise with that where
you just have to figure out, Okay, does this person
actually want to make a difference or are they just
doing this because they they want to have a like
a by not really putting into work.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
We get the same thing with that. Most of the
time people just don't understand what the work involves.
Speaker 8 (38:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
That's also like you've got the app out the door,
it's in the store, you know, a bunch of things.
A lot of people don't know because it's way harder
than you think it is. It seems simple, but when
you actually go through every one of those steps and
finally see your app appear in the store, you've been
through some stuff. And then it's hard to talk to
someone who's just never done that and they think they
(38:26):
trivialize all those efforts.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Oh yeah, and we.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Get the same thing with the podcast. You know, people
want to be guests on our show, and usually they're
just selling something or you know, the stuff that our
listeners don't care.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
About, so we just let a lot of it go.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, all right, yeah, so we know what's next for you.
But that's usually a question I asked, but you've kind
of already answered it. But you're you're going to continue
working on this stuff. You're going to take it to
the next job.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
But none of you finished school yet either, like you
still have school.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I did just gratch congratulation, Thank you, going back for more.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Are you going to go to work?
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I'm going I'm just.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
But that's you know, the crazy part for me is
thinking you still got classes?
Speaker 8 (39:11):
Yes, yeah, all these other things Tomorrow my team.
Speaker 7 (39:15):
Joint classes at four in the morning before coming.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
To on the other side of the world of course difference.
Speaker 5 (39:22):
Yea, so it's a bit crazy, but.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, that's great. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Well, congratulations to you all again and amazing job. Congratulations
Daniel on August. It's it's you guys are amazing.
Speaker 8 (39:35):
Yeah, of course, it's been incredible honor meeting everyone here.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
All right, Well, thanks for being awesome and thank you
for listening, and we'll talk to you next time on
dot net rocks. Dot net Rocks is brought to you
(40:06):
by Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, a full
service audio, video and post production facility located physically in
New London, Connecticut, and of course in the cloud online
at pwop dot com.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
Visit our website at d O T N E t
R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,
mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going
back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand
and two. And make sure you check out our sponsors.
They keep us in business. Now go write some code.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
See you next time.
Speaker 8 (40:42):
You got javans at
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