May 27, 2025 • 65 mins
About our guest:
Robert McMillan
-----------------------------------------------
Resources mentioned:
More at https://www.patreon.com/c/EarthandWater
In today's fast-paced, digital world, it's easy to lose touch with something profoundly essential for our well-being: nature. What if the secret to healing, forging meaningful connections, and finding true fulfillment isn't a complex new trend, but a return to the wild?
In this episode, we dive deep into the transformative power of engaging with nature, exploring practical ways to integrate outdoor activities like camping, kayaking, hiking, forest bathing, and even mindful walks in your local park into your life. These experiences can become powerful tools for mental, emotional, and physical health.
Why Nature Matters for Your Well-being:
Science consistently shows that spending time in natural environments has profound benefits:
In this episode, you'll discover:
Robert McMillan
-----------------------------------------------
Resources mentioned:
- https://www.mountainlakesrvpark.com/
- https://www.alive.org/
- https://www.crazyhorsecanoe.com/index.html
More at https://www.patreon.com/c/EarthandWater
In today's fast-paced, digital world, it's easy to lose touch with something profoundly essential for our well-being: nature. What if the secret to healing, forging meaningful connections, and finding true fulfillment isn't a complex new trend, but a return to the wild?
In this episode, we dive deep into the transformative power of engaging with nature, exploring practical ways to integrate outdoor activities like camping, kayaking, hiking, forest bathing, and even mindful walks in your local park into your life. These experiences can become powerful tools for mental, emotional, and physical health.
Why Nature Matters for Your Well-being:
Science consistently shows that spending time in natural environments has profound benefits:
- Stress Reduction: Lower cortisol levels, reduced anxiety, and a profound sense of calm. The sounds of birdsong, the rustle of leaves, and the expansive views offer a natural antidote to daily stressors.
- Enhanced Mood & Mental Clarity: Boost endorphins, improve focus, and alleviate symptoms of depression and anxiety. Nature provides a mental break from sensory overload, fostering clearer thinking and creativity.
- Stronger Physical Health: Encourages physical activity, boosts Vitamin D, improves cardiovascular health, and strengthens the immune system.
- Deeper Connection: Fosters a sense of belonging, not just to the natural world, but often to others when sharing experiences. Whether it's a shared campfire story or navigating a river together, outdoor activities can deepen bonds.
- Increased Fulfillment & Purpose: Offers opportunities for challenge, mastery, and a renewed appreciation for life's simple wonders. Achieving goals in nature, like reaching a summit or paddling a new route, builds self-esteem and resilience.
In this episode, you'll discover:
- Mindful immersion techniques: How to truly experience nature with all your senses, whether you're deep in the wilderness or in your backyard.
- Accessible ways to connect with nature: Even if you live in an urban environment, we'll share strategies for bringing nature into your life daily.
- The emotional and psychological benefits: Understanding the science behind why a walk in the woods can feel like therapy.
- Building community through shared outdoor adventures: How to find or create groups for hiking, camping, kayaking, and more.
- Practical tips for getting started: Gear essentials, safety considerations, and resources for planning your next outdoor excursion, no matter your experience level.
- Overcoming common barriers: How to make time for nature, especially if you have a busy schedule or feel intimidated by outdoor activities.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
So I've really been dying to know how the meeting
went at Mountain Lakes.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
For you, it was a good meeting, you know, informative.
They were definitely encouraging, not overly. Definitely wasn't a hard sale.
It's like when you said no, it's like, okay, sorry,
the offer closes as soon as you go out the door.
(00:31):
And you know, I think if I would have in
a little bit different stage of my travels, it would
definitely be worth it. Yeah, if you're gonna be on
the road extensively for more than three years, yeah, it's
a way to go.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah. Uh, we probably would have said yes. Also if
things have been a little bit different for us as well.
I'm glad that there was no pressure situation for you.
We definitely already out like that, but there towards the
end when we were like, look, no, I'm sorry, the
demeanor did change a little bit. And then me being
(01:10):
in marketing and whatnot, I had so many critiques for
their system, like, for example, you're trying to sell camping
in nature to people who want camping in nature, but
you're doing it, You're spending an hour in a stuffy
(01:32):
building trying to do it, and all the whole time,
Like I'm we're just staring out the window, like not staring,
you know, because it's like face to face and that
would be rude. But I'm just me and my husband
both are just looking out the window, like, Wow, it's
such a nice pretty day out and we're stuck in here.
And I think a much easier sell would be for
(01:54):
them to actually do less of the talking and the
statistics and the math and like, all of that's good.
But if you're gonna put us on a go cart
and take us to see a couple of go cart sorry,
a golf cart, and that would be more fun, wouldn't it.
If you're gonna put us on a golf cart at
(02:16):
some point anyway, and take us to various places around
the camp and show us things, why not just do
the entire presentation like that, you know, and you go
sit by, you go sit on the dock for a
little while and talk about this, and it's like, well,
let's go see something else. And then you take us
(02:37):
over to the park, the little dog park, and we
sit there for a little bit under the trees and
we talk about something, and then we go check out
the cabins and we talk about something, I think that
would be a lot easier for them to sell.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
But right.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I loved that place. It it really satisfied my need
for community. I love how they were doing that, and
I would love to set something up. I think all
communities and like little neighborhoods should be set up like that,
you know, where most everything's just a bike ride away
(03:12):
and you can they do little community events and things
for the kids. And I loved everything about that place.
But you know, situations and circumstances and whatnot. But I
really glad that I met you there, and you have
a very elaborate RV that caught everybody's attention, I'm sure.
(03:37):
So tell us a little bit about that. When when
did you start camping? You've been camping your whole life,
for a whole life. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
My dad used to take us out and that's for
the grand epic experience, you know, when I was three,
I think was our first trip and we I feel
like I've told the story in Manton Times, but it's
to me kind of iconic. But he we had a
(04:05):
Chevy and Pala, you know, like one of the old
twenty two foot long four door.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And we had a pop up camper.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
What huh what year was them? Paula roundabouts?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Okay, seventy okay one.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
My uncle has a fifty seven that he redd.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's pretty yeah there there they were
a beast man.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
They were huge.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That's when like, you know, there were seat belts in
the cars, but you really kind of stuffed them in
the back seat to get them out of the way
because siblings would use them as a weapon against each other.
Or I would be sleeping in the package I used
to call it the package shell in the back right,
and I would lay in the back of the package
(04:56):
shelf just looking up and we would would be driving
at nighttime you can like watch the stars.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
It's like going across the desert.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I remember that, and I was like three, right, but yeah,
we took the pop up camper on the Impala and
went from Georgia down the Big Bend, you know, California,
up the Pacific Highway.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I think we ended up somewhere in Washington.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And then worked our way back and it was a
six week trip or six of us. And yeah, that
just kind of got into my DNA at that point,
I think.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So where are you from? Like Originally you said you
started in Georgia. Is that where you're from.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah, I'm born and raised in Georgia.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Okay, cool, I'm born and raised in Alabama, just next door.
So similar dynamic there with all that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, and yeah, it's just I get it. It kind
of reignited. Camping did reignited with me. I've got two
boys and they went through the Scouts program.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Okay, that's what we did.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Every other weekend. You know, it was camping doing something
with them, and they just loved it. And when they
were in twenty twelve, I was like, they're about the
right age.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
It's like you try to have some of those impressionable
experiences that kind of sets their character a little bit.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I think.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And so we took a I tried to replicate the
trip that my dad took me on with them.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
We didn't have a pop up.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I just had the Volkswagen Jetta wagon and some tents
and you know, we just set out and went to
Glacier National Park and worked our way down through some
of the rockies and back home. But I was a
twenty eight day trip.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Awesome.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, that was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So they go with you regularly still or they off
doing their own thing.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yes, and yes.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So the oldest is out of college, he's been working
a couple of years. He's now engaged, so I'm quickly losing.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Access to that time temporarily.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Temporary, Yeah, until he had starts having kids and then.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, and then it'll ren not a whole new era.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah. And the youngest is.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
He just started. He just finished his first year of college.
And I just got back from a trip with him
because I drove any any excuse I get to take
a road trip, sure, I'm like, sign me up. And
so he was getting out of college and he's like,
I want to come home for the summer. I'm like,
all right, cool, so I'll just drive out, picked up
in the r V and we went up to.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
He was in Colorado. So then we went to Each Lake.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Minnesota's a little town called Walker, Minnesota. Leach Lake's the
third largest lake in Minnesota. And we went there for
the purpose of fishing, you know, Northern pike and what
other whatever else we could catch that was in season.
Had a great trip, three three days fishing in total,
(08:25):
caught lots of fish, and got back home like last Thursday.
So yeah, he's still pretty active and we have a
great time.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Awesome. So you're not stationed anywhere right now, you're.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Just I'm home, home office, and I'll stay here and
do a lot of out and backs, especially with the
business if there's an RV show. There's a music festival
in Ohio this summer. It's called Alive dot Org. Okay,
(08:57):
like twenty thousand people. I think there's like twenty bands.
It's at a fifteen thirteen hundred acre state park and
it's just a big music festival for three days.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I'm very pro music festivals. I hope to be able
to get into that when my kids get a little
bit bigger. We're just now sort of getting into our
camping era. I grew up camping with my parents every weekend,
my cousins, my aunts and uncles. Every single weekend. We
(09:35):
were at Joe Willers State Park usually is where we were,
but also tames Ford, just local. We didn't really go
too far off. I was a girl scout from kindergarten
until about sixth grade, and we were a very active
(09:56):
troop and we were camping all the time, and we
go on these we long trips, camping trips, and I
loved every minute of it and say, Okay, so I
was in the same girl Scout troop for this long
in a town of like eight hundred Wow. So yeah,
(10:17):
very small town, very small group. There was probably I
don't know, twelve fifteen of the same exact girls all
of these years, and not a single one of them
I made friends with. So it was definitely the camping
that had me and I just loved nature. I grew
(10:42):
up on a lot of farms. I had one grandfather
who had a horse farm, and then I had or
raised horses, and I guess you don't call horses on
a farm, but anyway, I had. My other grandparents were farms,
so we would travel around to different farms doing whatever
(11:04):
needed to be done, whether that was putting up fencing
or vaccinating sheep or you know whatever. And then at
my other grandparents I had, they lived on this gravel
road and she it was like it was really heilly,
(11:26):
So she lived at the top of this hill. My
dad's cousin lived next door to her, My uncle lived
next door to him, her brother lived like on the
top of the hill. Across the street was her other brother.
So they all lived on the same road and owned
probably two hundred acres give or take on both sides
(11:49):
of the road. So me and my I had a
cousin that was the same age as me, and we
would get up in the morning at like nine or
ten years old and take our baby guns and our
pocket knives and go trekking through the woods. And you know,
(12:09):
we were at our grandmother's house, but we would come
home for lunch and she would be gone, who knows
where she was at. And then we would feed ourselves,
usually with like squirrel or a bird, weed killed or something,
so we would we would clean it, gut it, cook it.
Sometimes it was edible, sometimes it was not, because you know,
(12:30):
we're like ten eleven and uh, just figuring it out.
But that was where I loved to be, was in
the woods. So I always make you know, people were like,
were you raising a barn? Yes? Yes, I was actually
a few of them. And so this is this is
how I grew up literally in the backwoods, just completely
(12:53):
lost in nature every single day from sun up to
sundown and just wild. And I unfortunately, my Girl Scout
group dismantled when I was in like the sixth grade,
which is why I didn't do it. Anymore. There was
no other options for me, and so, you know, fast
(13:16):
forward to I didn't really we didn't really camp anymore.
So we stopped camping as a family when I was
probably fifteen ish or so, and then I didn't anymore
at all until about a year or two ago. My
husband borderline city ga Okay, like he's not. But also,
(13:41):
they didn't camp, they didn't do wilderness, they didn't go
out into the woods or really fish or like anything. Right,
So very polar opposites. And for years and years and years,
I was like, let's go camping, Let's go camping, let's
go camping, and he was like, his idea of camping
was renting a cabin in like at a you know,
(14:05):
at a lake right or in the mountains. So we
would I would make fun of him because that's not camping,
And a lot of people would make fun of us
for RV camping because a lot of people say that
that's not camping.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
I am just happy with whatever baby steps I could
get him towards. So after a few years of cabins
in the woods and whatnot, we have a friend who
got us into kayaking. So he started spending a little
bit more time in nature, and he was like, okay, okay,
(14:42):
and then we went on this overnight kayaking camping trip
and he was It took us so long to talk
him into this. We were planning this trip for like
six to eight months because you can only take what
you can fit on your kayak. Right, We're going to
put in at Are you familiar with a Crazy Horse
(15:03):
at the Buffalo River in Tennessee? No? Okay, Well, great
place to check out. They have like three different types
of kayaking adventures that you can do, and two of
them are you know, you do the upper portion, which
is like ten miles and then you so they take
you upriver and then you float down to the campgrounds.
(15:26):
Or they had like a five mile where you put
in at the campgrounds and I might have these mixed up,
but it doesn't really matter, and they'll pick you up
downriver and bring you back to the campgrounds. But they
have a sixteen mile also where they take you way upriver.
You float as much as you can the first day,
(15:47):
find a spot somewhere on the bank to camp overnight,
get up the next morning and do the rest of
the sixteen miles all the way to the campground. So
that was what we were planning. He thought we were crazy.
He was like he was just like, we're like, we're
doing this and he was like, ha ha, right, and
you know, we're getting closer to it and getting closer
(16:08):
to it, and we're like, yeah, you know, we're we're
talking about what we're packing and what we bought and
our gear and what we can hold and hey, do
you do you are you bringing this because we don't
need two of them, and you know, and he's like,
ha ha ha, y'all are y'all are really putting on
about this this trip. And it got down to like
(16:32):
three weeks until we were leaving, and he was like,
wait a second, we're serious. We're serious. I'm not doing that.
I'm like, no, we're doing this. You've we've been talking
about this for like six to eight months. You're not
backing out now. Okay, three weeks until? No, If you're
not prepared, that's your fault. I'm sorry. So we went.
(16:53):
It was a blast, and I'm so thankful that we
had that experience and we had those friends that could
kind of like peer pressure him into going right, because
you know, he can just tell me no, be like no,
I'm not doing that. But he can't tell all of
us no like he could, but it's way less likely.
And that kind of kicked off. He was like, Oh,
(17:15):
this is not so bad. And the next thing I
knew that was all it took. The next thing I
knew he had bought us we now have. This was
like two years ago maybe, and in those two years
we now have like three different tents, because you know,
you need like three different sizes depending on what you're
doing and where you're going and who's going. And of
(17:37):
course we had the camper, which we were on our
second camper now, so when I met you, we had
just upgraded ours into a because my husband's kind of
a bigger guy. He's almost six foot, really broad shoulders,
so he felt really cramped, and the one that we had,
especially when you get the kids in there and everybody's
(18:00):
trying to move around and do things, so he needed
one that had like a slide out so that it
felt bigger. But anyway, I now we're camping every single weekend.
He's been texting me all morning because school gets out
this week. He's trying to figure out are we going
camping during the week next week or are we going
camping on the weekend next week. And we are now
(18:24):
in cub Scouts, which I have somehow gotten suckered into
being a cub Scout leader, So.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I'm take an hour a month, right.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Right, Well, I'm in the process of that, and we're
in a very active cub Scout group, which has been wonderful.
And you know, we signed up for the kids, and
it's been way more fulfilling and purposeful for us. Probably
(19:02):
the kids don't even really know. They're like, oh, we're
gonna go hang out with those people again, okay, because
it's all us doing everything at this point. They are
getting older. So my son just did his crossover to
Arrow of Light, so he's getting to the age where
things are fixing or really start getting for him.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, and that's I mean, it is so cool to
watch the kids in those Scout programs because you see
them evol and you're like, when they're that first entry
level club, it's like herding cats, I mean like literally
bouncing off the walls. And then by the time they
(19:47):
get to the Air of Light, you're like, Okay, they're
starting to shape up. And then fortunately mine went all
the way through and.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Eagle got their eagle.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And when you have a commonversation with kids that have
been through that program and compare them to a kid
who has had no structure and that kind of stuff,
it is night and death.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
It's just it's.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's the activity and the social side of it and
the structure.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
And you know, I think it's really.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Pretty awesome, which I really rebelled against at first because
I'm kind of anti structure. Yeah, I don't really like
being told what to do or how to do it
or what to wear, and that me crazy. But now
that but yet we're really again, we're really fortunate to
have an amazing group and some really awesome leaders, and
(20:44):
it's so worth it. It's so worth it. So like
now I'm a little less like fidgety about it, even
though you know, I was a Scout for but Girl
Scouts and Cub Scouts are two completely different things. And
you know, I say Cub Scouts, they're not boy Scouts anymore.
They rebranded, and I know a lot of people have
a lot of feelings about that. But you know, as
(21:08):
female myself who has a daughter and being going through
the Girl Scouts program, even though like I was very
fortunate to have a leader who really took us camping
and did the things and taught us how to survive,
you know, Like we did a lot of what would
(21:29):
be considered Cub Scouts things. A lot of people that
I've talked to who were Girl Scouts growing up didn't, Like,
I don't know of anybody actually I've talked to who
had a similar Girl Scout experience to what I did.
Most of them were like, I mean, we sold cookies,
but other than that, we sat at a table and
(21:51):
did some crafts, but that's about it. And you know,
I really wanted that experience for both of my children,
and I was so so so thankful to have the
opportunity to put them in the same program in our
local town. So, for one, I'm not My kids are
(22:15):
really close. They're only they're barely three years apart, and
which is not a big difference at all, And so
they're really close. They're really good friends. They have a
lot of the same friends, they get along well, they
still play together, they like the same shows, they play
the same video games. So for one, when we got
(22:37):
started in Cub Scouts, it was just my son, and
it was so heart wrenching to me to have to
explain to my daughter why she couldn't do the things
he was doing. And oh, but she did. Do you
know she completed or she launched a rocket, just like
he launched a rocket. And now he's getting a award
(23:01):
for his rocket. And she was just kind of glazed over.
And what's funny is that he doesn't care at all
about awards, like not at all. But she what's gonna
get me the trophy? I want the trophy, I want
the medal, I want the pins, Like how do I
get those? How do I earn them? Tell me what
to do? She's so competitive and he's like he don't care,
(23:24):
he doesn't care.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
At all, So where's my shirt?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
But there wasn't There wasn't a girl Scout Brownie opportunity
for her in our area at all. And if there
had been, you know, we're already strung so thin trying
to get to all of the functions. It would have
been a nightmare trying to make sure she got to
all of her stuff. And we did all of her
(23:52):
requirements for the things for the badges, for the patches,
and then we have to turn around and do something
completely different with him on a different night with different
people and different requirements. So I'm super thankful to just
you know, when they get like after Arrow of Light,
(24:13):
they start branching off two it does become boy Scouts
and girl Scouts, So they do become separate when they
become of age, which is like eleven ish, but before that,
it's just family oriented. It's just all of us doing
it together, which is what it would have been, which
is what it was already anyway, because you know, the
(24:34):
cub Scouts at that age have to have an adult
and so it was all four of us doing all
the things anyway.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think it'll all smooth out,
you know, and I think ultimately it's they'll spin it
into more of a youth leadership program mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
But yeah, totally worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
But to your point, no, you've really got to have
an active leadership.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
And they do.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Have the formulas if you if you follow the formulas,
but if you don't have the experience, you know, with camping,
it's kind of hard to teach others.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, you're having to learn yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah, you can't learn yourself. You can't be learning how
to yourself at the same time that you have all
of these not only the children, but their parents who
have no idea what They've never been camping, most of
them usually.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I mean we used have you know, moms would come
in and you know, whatever the situation was, it'd be
a single parent, and the mom is bringing the kids
in and trying to do the things that you know,
she thinks that a young boy is going to want
to do and takes them into the Scout program, has
(25:54):
no idea how to pitch a tent whatsoever. So everybody
just kind of chips in and but yes, those early experiences,
I think that, yeah, it's gonna set that marker for
whether you had a great time and you want to
do it forever or or not.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
You know, they say like one in five.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
People that go camping for the first time will never
go again, oh man, because of preparation and didn't have
a good experience.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Right, Yeah, you for sure when you start it is very,
very beneficial to start going with people who already kind
of know what to do and you know they've been
doing this, and that.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Sense of community.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, but that's hard to find sometimes.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Two So it is, especially when you come from a
small town.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Oh goshually I have a mirrored story.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I mean, you know, I was in rural Georgia.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
And I think there was like three kids within a
three mile radius.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Of my house. You know. Yeah, it's me and nature.
So the our cups true.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I mean I think we had four kids in it,
you know, and it was the mom that was leading it.
And you know, blessed part you tried and coming from Alabama,
you know what I mean when I say bless her heart.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, bless them all. But you know,
at least they're trying.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, it was great and there's the rewarding.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
That to me, the whole planning process is as much
fun that anticipation, just like you know, talking about you
and your husband going for six months. You know, you
talked about it and you built it up and you
planned and you know, there's that's part of the the fun.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
To me.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Oh I love it. I love it. We have you know,
it's a big old black and yellow toe you can
get from lows yep. Okay, well we have like four
or five of those. So we've been so this is
like this is probably year we're probably moving. We're definitely
moving into our third summer. So three summers ago is
(28:16):
when that trip that I talked about would have happened.
And so the group of friends that we went to
in that original trip have stuck. So we go kayaking
and camping with them almost every weekend, almost every time,
every like people are each other's off. Like we go
as often as we can kayaking during the warm seasons
(28:42):
averages probably three or four times a month, and then
camping we try to do at least once a month.
But we have our dynamic now, and that's kind of
what you need, is a dynamic. So, like my husband
and our friend Melissa are the ones that side where
we're going and when we're going, I'm the one that
(29:05):
makes sure everything's packed. Most of them, I don't even
know where we're going, Like it doesn't matter to me.
You just tell me when and how long, and I'm
at we get there. We get there, and like, no
one has sunscreen, So I'm the one that made sure
that I packed sunscreen for everybody. So I'm not packing
just for me and my husband and the kids, but
(29:25):
I'm packing for all six of us or sorry, how
many is there for? Five? Six, seven? So there's seven
of us that are for sure all the time together,
and then there's one that sometimes he's off and sometimes
he's not. But you know, I love the packing process
(29:48):
and it's like a mental puzzle for me. You know,
if we're going tent camping, then you need these things.
If we're going tent camping on with the kayaks and
you need these things. If we're in the RV, you
need these things. Like it's just the whole It's a
whole thing.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So in our app, we have, you know, the concept
of lists, so you have vaculum and shopping, m whatever,
and carrying it that concept forward. I want to evolve
that into a set of templates. You know, it's like
you can see what somebody else's list is and like, oh,
I'm going to start with that, yeah, of it, and
(30:32):
then you can.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Just edit it.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
That would be so helpful, especially for beginners. So that's
a great thing that your your app would have a
wonder I bet it's wonderful for people who are just
starting out getting into it and don't really know how
to do it and don't really know where to start
or what you need and don't want to have a
bad time, or maybe they did have a bad time
and they're not even really sure how or what went wrong.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That's the goal, Yeah, to kind of make it a
go to resource, to simplify not necessarily I don't see
as a huge problem solver. It just has a lot
of the functionality that you need in one place, and
(31:16):
and for me, that was that was what I was after,
and I didn't want to get sucked into the you know,
the social media algorithms that manipulate your brain. And yes,
I just just give me something that I can save
my experiences because I want to have more fun in
(31:36):
my experience than on an appy.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
I'm just kind of counterint.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Well, a lot of people do the experience just to
post about it on the app, and you're missing out
on because you know. One of the reasons that I'm
so I kind of hate the word passionate honestly, but
about camping and being in nature and kayaking and all
(32:03):
that is because we've become so distanced from it in
our current society and culture. And I think that if
we could just make it more a part of our lives,
it would heal a lot of the issues that a
lot of us have with not only mental health but
(32:24):
physical health. And because you know, to be able to
go camping and kayaking and hiking and all of this,
you have to be somewhat fit and you get out
there and there's just there's so many benefits to it,
especially if you can find a group to go with.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
It.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Heals that that, you know, we have an epidemic of
loneliness and lack of connection to people. We're communal creatures,
but we've become so separated from one another that most
of us are lacking in that connection and fulfillment in
your heart and soul that you know, we feel like
(33:03):
something's missing, but we're not really sure what it is.
Most of the time, it's connections to our tribe, our village.
And if you can find just a handful of people
that you can go out and have these experiences with
and uh hahaha, dark humor, half nearly die together sometimes
because some of us can be kind of pretty scary,
(33:24):
you know. Yeah, you get on a kayak and a
river with some rapids that you know, and it's been
raining a little bit too much here lately, and now
there's not only is the water going pretty swiftly, but
there's all sorts of like debris like logs and just debris,
(33:44):
and it can be you flip and suddenly you're pretty
much in a life or death situation, even though most
of the time it's quite mild and not anything to
really panic over, but it puts a hole in perspective.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
There's a scout trip the boys went on. There's a
canoe trip in South Georgia. So they got in the
river and I think they had it was a two
day or three day trip, and they put the tents
up on night one. It was kind of close to
the water, but you know, eight inches or six or
(34:22):
eight inches or so above the water line. And everybody
wakes up and their shoes are floating in their tent,
and you know, the coolers are like floating off. It
had rained significantly upriver and all of that water was
making its way down and so the river was just
(34:44):
slowly rising and submerging everything. And that was you know, yeah,
they were kind of freaking out.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Sure, what an experience, though, you know, you walk away
from stuff like that with a story that to tell
for the rest of your life. Yeah, like, man, I
lost my favorite pair of shoes that day.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, and it gives you definite perspective. You know, It's
like some people are like how bad could it get?
And you're like, well, okay, now I have perspective.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
And that's the thing. That's another thing that I love
about about it all is that I take my kids
for you know, just two nights, a simple quick weekend
trip tent camping, not even kayaking, just simple tent camping,
sleep on the ground for a couple of days, and
they come back with such better attitudes about everything. We
(35:36):
all do. We all, you know, we get grumpy and
we're like irritable over dumb stuff that doesn't even matter.
And you go out there with no air conditioning to
sleep on the ground for a couple of days, and
you come back and you're like, wow, you know what
life is? All right?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah, it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Battle the element because we'll go we'll go cold camping,
like winter camping. Uh huh and yeah, yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You have you're not there yet, so you might see
have you done the winter camping and scouts?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah we did last year. This year we got snowed out,
iced out, like when we had it planned. There was
a big old winter storm coming through. So like, you know,
they're they're not about being dangerous or anything. They'll they'll
cancel for inclement weather, and we've had to do that
a lot this year because of ice and snow. So
(36:42):
we didn't get to do the cold camp we get.
We had it scheduled and then it got snow diceed out,
and then we rescheduled it, and then that one got
snow diceed out again, and then we were kind of
just out of winter.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Right, So yeah, we did our we went to minutes
somewhere in Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Oh, I mean it was extra cold up there in February. Yeah, see,
we're kind of even the dead of winter here in
Alabama is quite mild where we're a little spoiled. So
like we did, we did all purchase winter sleeping bags
(37:19):
this past year, and that has been highly recommend that
if you're if you're stuck between do I get a
winter sleeping bag or a summer sleeping bag. Just get
the winter sleeping bag and then if it's hot, unzip
it and stickulate out.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Right, Yeah, sleep on top of it.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, just grab an extra like just to
grab a little thin blanket we're on top. That's definitely
the way to go. And you know, you let you
learn these things.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
As you go, Yeah, I'm going through this phase. So
I'm gonna have to do some repair on the RD
because there's a slide out on the back and you know,
it's the whole system is built on this cann of
lever kind of and so when you hit rough highway,
you know, you're just bouncing and all of that weight.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
You know, we'll move things, break things.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
So I have some repair to do on that.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
So I'm gonna do a little more tent camping this year,
and I have to move from a there's a big
four It might even be a six man, but I
think it's a big four man tent ri I dome
tent to a more of like two man tent.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
So I love how you called it big. I love
how you called it big. We have we have a
four man tent, an eight man tent, and a sixteen
man tent that has three rooms in it. It's the
same size as our camper.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It's hilariously obnoxious. We took it. We went to West Moreland.
Are you familiar with that?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Huh?
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Okay, we went camping there with the cub Scouts just
a couple of weeks ago and brought it for the
first time because the four man's not quite big enough
honestly for all four of us. Because for people who
don't know, a four man tent means that four people
can lay down in it and that's it. That's how
much room you have. There's no extra room for anything.
(39:25):
So if you have four people going, you kind of
need at least a six man tent to just be
able to move around and change and stuff. But an
eight mantens, what's going to be really comfortable? Man. People
were making fun of our sixteen man tent that we
had for the four of us. But let me tell
you what it was like, a whole you know, like
(39:45):
the Safaris When we were growing up, we saw Safaris
on TV and they had these like huge elaborate tents
and you walked in and it's like a whole, like
office on one side and a bedroom on the other side.
That's what we had, and it was amazing.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
So I'm all for it. And my husband will be like,
it's such a pain to put up. Not really, I mean,
you know, they're all kind of a pain to put
up somehow or another. That's really not that bad. Now,
if you're putting it up by yourself. Maybe you don't
want to do all that, but if you have help,
it's okay and worth it. Usually, Yeah, my son tends
(40:23):
to be a little more on the lazy side. He's
he's getting better though, now that he's understanding. You know.
That's the wonderful thing about cub scouts is it's very
similar to the dynamic in martial arts. Do I do that?
And what I love about the dynamics is that as
(40:46):
you progress as a student or as you know, a scout,
you get more responsibility put on you. And people forget that.
Children want responsibility. They want to be seen as an equal,
They want to be a part of the adults world,
you know. So if you start giving them a little
(41:09):
bit of responsibility here and there, sometimes there's a little
bit of pushback because they don't understand that cleaning your
room is responsibility in the same sense that they want it,
you know. But if you give them responsibility of like
I need you to run this relay, like be in
(41:30):
charge of this relay race and these younger kids and
make them, you know, get in a line and explain
the rules to them and tell them how to do it,
and they love that and they walk away from it
feeling more confident and like they're capable, you know, less anxiety.
It's the the dynamics of these things are invaluable, and
(41:56):
we're really missing out on a lot of them in
our culture, in our society. You know, somebody was talking
recently on a podcast I don't remember about how we
don't have any sort of like initiations into adulthood. So
you have a say, you have a twenty five year
(42:18):
old man. Guy, It sounds so weird calling a twenty
five year old a full blown adult, even for me,
But I like these kids. But you know, you have
a twenty five year old man and he's sitting there
waiting like, am I an adult?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yet?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I'm like, because I don't really feel like I'm an adult.
And the quote unquote real adults in my life are
still treating me like I'm a child. So when am
I an adult?
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Right?
Speaker 1 (42:52):
And the thing about the initiation processes of say cub scounts,
as you level up, they honor all the the things
that you've accomplished moving towards this moment, and they highlight
all of the compliments accomplishments that you're going to pursue
(43:14):
in the next year and what all that means. And
you know, we're highlighting I keep saying responsibility, but it's
it's a lot more than responsibility. It's we did just
this past Tuesday was our basically graduation ceremony. What is
(43:36):
it called the bridging over the crossover ceremony. Yeah, And
I mean we did a crossover ceremony with our because
we were in a different pack. And then that pack
split off and made another pack that was trying to Yeah,
(43:59):
and and they became the boy and girl the co ed,
So that's where we're at. We kind of went with them,
and so the first crossover ceremony was nothing like the
crossover ceremony that we had this past Tuesday. The original
crossover ceremony was very It was like an awards ceremony,
(44:23):
which is fine, but there was no like emotional depth
to it. There was no like it was just kind
of like, Okay, here are the rewards, congratulations, walk over
the bridge, YadA, YadA, no big deal. But this pack,
these leaders really made a point to like they told
(44:45):
this whole story of which apparently like the other one
had a story too, but like this one was just
I don't know, done better. And like, so you have
the tiger, cause each for those who don't know each
level is like you have the bears and the tigers
and the lions, and uh oh my and uh so
(45:06):
each one of them like we would roar like a
tiger or roar like a bear and growl like a bear.
It was just it nearly had me in tears because
it just it touches that that tribal village connection initiation.
And the kids went home just uh like my daughter
(45:30):
was like, I I'm a bear now. Yeah. Yeah, She's like,
I'm a bear now. And and I get to teach
the tigers how to do things and they don't know
and they don't know how to do this, and but
I do. And I'm going to tell them now and
I'm going to show them how to do it and
then then they'll yes, it's so amazing. And it's give
(45:54):
me chills just talking about it just now. And we've
lost those ceremonies, know, and the ceremonies that we've kept
have become so dull and agonizing, like we have to
go to the school awards ceremony tomorrow and I'm just like, God,
there's nothing I want to do less right.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
It's funny. I had forgotten about those crossovers. But I
was a leader for in Scouts for a number of years,
so I've saw a lot of different varieties, and you're right,
there's a range. Like some of them are just amazing.
Like the most memorable one, we have a Native American
(46:39):
who was associated with Scouts, not necessarily in our troops,
but in the area.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
And he's in the Order of the Order of the Arrow.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And they sent set up he set up a full
blown teepee and we were like back in the woods
and there's like literally this little wooden bridge that you
had to go over to get this area, and they
have the campfire out there and everything was only you know,
torch lit by torches and the fire and he was
(47:11):
on the drum, you know, doing his Native American song
and just it was a full blown ceremony. And yeah,
that gets emotions, it does.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
It touches the inner depths of your soul.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, and kids are gonna remember that, mm hmm. It's
it's really pretty incredible.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah. We need we need more of that more in
our like society culture. And I think the problem is
is that America is the melting pot you know, so
we don't. We've a lot of us have lost our
culture and our connection to it. A lot of us
don't know what culture to even like turn to and
(47:55):
start as our own. And then when you don't have
because I mean, like we sure we can all make
our own traditions, but how silly do you feel making
your own traditions with your friends? And you get this
drum circle out and you're like, no, we're gonna do
the we do the kumbaya together. Like so you might
(48:18):
have like a one or two people who are who
are like, yeah, let's go and uh if you're lucky, honestly,
but most people are like this dumb soon of stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Yeah, and it you know, of course I'm want to
try to put a camping spin on it, but if
you really think about it, every single person on this
planet has he has come from a people who, at
some point in time we're camping as a primary you know,
mode of existence. Yeah, and you're right, you know, we
(48:54):
all come from these little cultural backgrounds, but they get
lost over time and then you know, maybe we're just rediscovering.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
It on it, Yes, yes, and I think we should
really put more effort into rediscover like I have these
one friends. The husband's like, yes, I want to go
camping so badly with you, And then the wife's like,
absolutely not, I'm not doing that. I am not doing that.
There's not enough air conditioner in the world. I'm not
going you know. That's yeah, it's quite common, quite common,
(49:29):
But like I can't begin to highlight the healing that
you get from sleeping under the stars. And like you
and I say that not necessarily as meaning like you
have to roll your sleeping bag out on the grass
and sleep literally under the stars. But you know, sitting
around a campfire, hanging out with your friends looking at
(49:53):
the stars, like is that you think that's a satellite
or a plane? There's what cond stellation is that? And
now that we have pretty well access to the internet
wherever we go, it's that much more fun because I
have like plant identification apps, so you know, the kids
will bring me a flower and I'm like, let's see
(50:15):
what it is, Let's see what if it's good for anything.
And so now we're learning about that. Oh look, it's
a real life Pokemon. You know. We found like a
big caterpillar. It's like, oh, it's a real life Pokemon.
And what constantly you know, let's see if we can
figure out what constellation this is or that is, or
what's in the stars tonight. It's it brings us a
(50:37):
sense of fulfillment that is lacking in our community. And
you know, camping can be scary and we're definitely biased,
but the benefits are just amazing and they'll, you know,
the benefits grow and they build on top of each other.
You know, we never expected when I was trying to
(51:01):
talk my husband into camping. I knew that nature was
awesome and it felt good to be out there, and
I wanted my kids to experience that. But I never
dreamed that we'd end up having friends that went with
us camping all the time, and that we would build
these communal bonds and fulfill things within us that we've
(51:24):
always been searching for and didn't exactly know what we
were even searching for. We just knew that something was missing,
and it's like, oh wow, it's connection to each other,
and we found it here, which you can find in
other places, for sure. But there's nothing like braving the
wilderness and surviving a day or two and.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Right having been through a journey together.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I did a last year.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
I called it My forty Days in the Desert Trip, Okay,
and it was pretty pretty darn accurate. I went out
to there was a show that I went out to
in court side of Arizona, and from there I wanted to,
you know, just see what the desert was like. And
(52:17):
what I learned is on my way out there, I
was going through New Mexico and it had just rained
several days in a row, and they had what the
desert they call it the super bloom, and everything the grass,
the ground was green, the every all the flowers just
(52:38):
like everything pops at once. You know, it looked surreal,
and I'm like, I'm coming back and I'm gonna camp
hear this first. And I did for a few days.
And then I found another spot that was up on
top of the mountain overlooking Tucson looking to the west,
and it looked like more door, you know, and you
(52:59):
know of the rings when they're looking across the valley,
and it must have been ninety miles and you know horizon,
you know visibility, and it probably fifty miles this way
and fifty miles this way, and you could you really
can't explain what you see and feel and experience until
(53:22):
you do it. But I sat up on that mountain, no,
no joke for eight days.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
I had enough.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Supplies and I was totally off grid except for my
Starlink satellite.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
I did have Starlink satellite.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
But yeah, I sat up on that hill for just
you know, days and watched the sunset and processed everything
because you know, for me, there's major phases in life.
You know, you have childhood, you go to you know,
college and that's a major ship, and then you get married, majorship,
(53:58):
have kids, majorship, kids get grown, kids start to move out,
major shift, you know.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
So that was me last year.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
So I just kind of use that whole trip, you
know as personal me time. Yeah, figure out you know what, okay,
what does the next part of life look like? And
there's a lot of processing that has to go and
you need time to to really work through all of those.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
Things mentally and.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Get everything lined up in terms of some form of
a plan you know, for life, because all your plans change.
But you know it's really good to just sit out
at that time and you know, I get it now,
you know, the forty days in the desert, Yeah, you
can you'll do some introspection.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Oh yeah, complete transformation. You come back changed for the better,
you know, And that's what I'm talking talking about with
the healing. You come back with a different perspective on things,
and suddenly you're not Suddenly you don't have road rage anymore,
and you're just kind of mosying along instead of trying
(55:14):
to drive fast and get there and get mad at
everybody that's going slow. And you know, and the perspective
of it not only from giving yourself space to think,
which is all most of us need, honestly, we need
(55:36):
just those beautiful views in the fresh air and the
space to just introspect and prioritize and think about what
the truth is because a lot of us, a lot
of our problems come from the stories and our heads.
And so you get out there and you're like, Okay,
(56:00):
my kids have not abandoned me. They are just going
through the natural motions of life and this is okay,
And well, did I tie my entire identity to being
their parent? Well? Who am I? Now? What do I want?
(56:20):
Where is this going? Can I give them space to
develop and spread their wings and experience life independently for
a little while and just maintain a safe place for
them to come back to if they need And a
(56:41):
lot of people, if you go out into nature and
just sit there and you're bored with that, that's probably
exactly what you need to do more of.
Speaker 3 (56:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah, And people are like, what do you do when
you're out there? And the last it's like, oh yeah,
it's answering all of those questions everybody head and I'm
just like processing.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Yeah, because you know, society and culture, the everyday hustle
and bustle of life is too busy. It's too distracting.
There's too many flashing lights, there's too many news sections
of oh yes, oh yes, it's all garbage, and you know,
like and we get so wrapped up in it, and
we're comparing ourselves to others and we're thinking our priorities
(57:35):
are different than what they are, and we're searching for
happiness and peace, and it's like you find all of
that in the doing of less, and sometimes you need
to just go out into the middle of nowhere in
order to do the less. Because you know, if we're
at home in our everyday lives, we have we have
(57:58):
a little bit of choice in wiggle, but for the
most part, like we just kind of get swept away
in all of the thing, all the responsibilities and the
chores and the errands and the relationships that we need
to maintain, and the work and the making the money
so that we can buy the groceries, and like, it's
(58:18):
just all the things. But if you go out into
nature for a week, even a couple of days, it
doesn't even have to be that extreme to go out
there for a couple of days, you start to realize
that you can do with a whole lot less and
be a thousand times happier for it. So now there's
(58:42):
this there's this story in Mexican culture, and I'll just
give you the cliff notes so that I don't take
up like fifteen minutes with this, But basically, there's a
fisherman and a businessman and the fisherman catches five fish
every day and three feet is family, and he sells
to in townusinessman's will like, well how long does that
take you? And he's like, ah, like an hour. And
(59:05):
he's like, well, what do you do with the rest
of your day? And he was like, well, I like
to take naps, and I like to take my dog
and a walk and I hang out with my wife
and I play with my kids. And he's like, well,
if you spent just two extra hours, you could catch
this many fish, and then you could sell this many fish,
and then you can make money. And then then you
could buy a boat, and then you could catch this
(59:27):
many fish and then you could sell them and make
this much money. And then you can hire people who
do all the fishing for you, and then you can
buy a really nice house, and then you can And
then he's like, well what would I do? What would
I do then? And I was like, well, you could
do whatever you want. The businessman, you know, you can
do whatever you want. He's like, well, that's what I
do now. So when you we're all our culture and
(59:52):
society chases, were constantly chasing the things that we think
are going to make us happy because consumerism and marketing
has told us that that's what we need in order
to be happy, when really we just need a whole
lot less. A whole lot less less is more minimalism,
(01:00:16):
camping nature nature provides. Yeah, got my vote, mine too.
We can go ahead and wrap this up if you'd like,
tell people more about your app and what you have
going on.
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
So Camping Tools the app, it's a website and a
mobile app. We pitch it as an online journal so
you can plan your trips. It has social features so
you can share, you know, you'll save your memories like
you're gonna you know, upload a photo or a video
and it goes to the timeline of your trip and
(01:00:59):
then you can share that whole trip with friends if
you want to. So you know, it has the things
in it. This is you know, design that I've been
working on for years, and it brings together the tools
that you want, the utility that you want to have
without introducing all of those algorithms that you know, trigger
(01:01:22):
dopamine release every time you scroll and you know you
see alike and that kind of thing. So we're trying
to stay away from that. Kind of think of it
as organic food for your brain. It's a little more
wholesome hopefully than what you get out of traditional social
(01:01:42):
but it still gives you the features that you want
in the context of camping, so.
Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
You can see what other people are doing.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
There's a marketplace out there, you can write blog post
about it. And for me personally, the thing that I
like about it is that I'm capturing my story and
I'm saving it for my kids. I've got hard drives
with pictures and stuff, and you know, they're on my
phone in the computer, and it's just the organization and
(01:02:12):
maintenance of it.
Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
All is just nuts.
Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
It's a whole job.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
This app, you know, is designed to simplify from that
and make it easy to yeah, save your memories.
Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Yeah, because if you're anything like me, we've we have
not yet been to the same camping place twice m h,
unless you count our kayak camping because there's only so
many places that you can do that. So aside from that,
because we do frequent the same locations with kayaking because
(01:02:49):
there's only so many places that you can do that,
but as far as camping goes, we haven't gone to
the same place twice yet, And it gets really jumbled
in my head, which place is what so? And like
my husband with his memory, I don't know how he
does it, but he'll be like, oh, yeah, this was
(01:03:10):
what we did at this location, and this is what
we did at this location. For me, it all kind
of blends together. So I don't know if we were
at Davy Crockett when we did that or if we
were at Honeycomb when we did that, or if we
like it just kind of. So I imagine that would help
keep that straight a little bit. I've been wanting to
(01:03:30):
document our stuff a little bit better, just so that
I can keep my own memories straight. But I also
really like the practicality because you know, people who are
into camping and stuff generally like the utility. They like
(01:03:50):
to be practical. They don't like all the frizzles and
the fras. They they want, you know, is it useful?
Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Right, And.
Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Especially if you're just getting started and you don't have
anybody in your real life that you can that can
help you get started who knows how to like point
you in the right direction, and googling everything is so
overwhelming when you're starting from scratch to to search and
read is that's a whole job in and of itself.
(01:04:21):
It's much easier to have somebody that you can connect
with who's done it. So, you know, I imagine that's
really good for that. And you can get on there
and ask questions if you need questions answered. And like
you said earlier, with the lists.
Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Yeah, so we're actually implementing an aim that does just
what you're talking about. If you have questions, especially if
you're new, just give me a good recommendation. I don't
need twenty different recommendations.
Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
I need one.
Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
And we're hoping that AI, you know, trip Planner will
answer a lot of those for.
Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
The the newcomers.
Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
That would be cool, awesome, And I hope that people
listen to all this and they're like maybe, and they
give it a try, they give camping a try, they
give the app a try, and don't give up because
just because you have one bad experience, it's you know,
everything is a learning curve until you figure it out.
Everything's hard until it becomes easy. Literally, it will become easy,
(01:05:24):
but it's gonna be hard first everything.
Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
And it's fun.
Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
It is so much fun and so rewarding. But thank
you so much for Yeah, this has been a blast.
Thank you for coming on and letting me talk about
all of this.
Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing it.
Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Yeah uh yeah. All right, we'll let everybody go and
if y'all have any questions, please feel free to reach
out
So I've really been dying to know how the meeting
went at Mountain Lakes.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
For you, it was a good meeting, you know, informative.
They were definitely encouraging, not overly. Definitely wasn't a hard sale.
It's like when you said no, it's like, okay, sorry,
the offer closes as soon as you go out the door.
(00:31):
And you know, I think if I would have in
a little bit different stage of my travels, it would
definitely be worth it. Yeah, if you're gonna be on
the road extensively for more than three years, yeah, it's
a way to go.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah. Uh, we probably would have said yes. Also if
things have been a little bit different for us as well.
I'm glad that there was no pressure situation for you.
We definitely already out like that, but there towards the
end when we were like, look, no, I'm sorry, the
demeanor did change a little bit. And then me being
(01:10):
in marketing and whatnot, I had so many critiques for
their system, like, for example, you're trying to sell camping
in nature to people who want camping in nature, but
you're doing it, You're spending an hour in a stuffy
(01:32):
building trying to do it, and all the whole time,
Like I'm we're just staring out the window, like not staring,
you know, because it's like face to face and that
would be rude. But I'm just me and my husband
both are just looking out the window, like, Wow, it's
such a nice pretty day out and we're stuck in here.
And I think a much easier sell would be for
(01:54):
them to actually do less of the talking and the
statistics and the math and like, all of that's good.
But if you're gonna put us on a go cart
and take us to see a couple of go cart sorry,
a golf cart, and that would be more fun, wouldn't it.
If you're gonna put us on a golf cart at
(02:16):
some point anyway, and take us to various places around
the camp and show us things, why not just do
the entire presentation like that, you know, and you go
sit by, you go sit on the dock for a
little while and talk about this, and it's like, well,
let's go see something else. And then you take us
(02:37):
over to the park, the little dog park, and we
sit there for a little bit under the trees and
we talk about something, and then we go check out
the cabins and we talk about something, I think that
would be a lot easier for them to sell.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
But right.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I loved that place. It it really satisfied my need
for community. I love how they were doing that, and
I would love to set something up. I think all
communities and like little neighborhoods should be set up like that,
you know, where most everything's just a bike ride away
(03:12):
and you can they do little community events and things
for the kids. And I loved everything about that place.
But you know, situations and circumstances and whatnot. But I
really glad that I met you there, and you have
a very elaborate RV that caught everybody's attention, I'm sure.
(03:37):
So tell us a little bit about that. When when
did you start camping? You've been camping your whole life,
for a whole life. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
My dad used to take us out and that's for
the grand epic experience, you know, when I was three,
I think was our first trip and we I feel
like I've told the story in Manton Times, but it's
to me kind of iconic. But he we had a
(04:05):
Chevy and Pala, you know, like one of the old
twenty two foot long four door.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And we had a pop up camper.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
What huh what year was them? Paula roundabouts?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Okay, seventy okay one.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
My uncle has a fifty seven that he redd.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's pretty yeah there there they were
a beast man.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
They were huge.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That's when like, you know, there were seat belts in
the cars, but you really kind of stuffed them in
the back seat to get them out of the way
because siblings would use them as a weapon against each other.
Or I would be sleeping in the package I used
to call it the package shell in the back right,
and I would lay in the back of the package
(04:56):
shelf just looking up and we would would be driving
at nighttime you can like watch the stars.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
It's like going across the desert.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I remember that, and I was like three, right, but yeah,
we took the pop up camper on the Impala and
went from Georgia down the Big Bend, you know, California,
up the Pacific Highway.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
I think we ended up somewhere in Washington.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And then worked our way back and it was a
six week trip or six of us. And yeah, that
just kind of got into my DNA at that point,
I think.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So where are you from? Like Originally you said you
started in Georgia. Is that where you're from.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Yeah, I'm born and raised in Georgia.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Okay, cool, I'm born and raised in Alabama, just next door.
So similar dynamic there with all that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, and yeah, it's just I get it. It kind
of reignited. Camping did reignited with me. I've got two
boys and they went through the Scouts program.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Okay, that's what we did.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Every other weekend. You know, it was camping doing something
with them, and they just loved it. And when they
were in twenty twelve, I was like, they're about the
right age.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
It's like you try to have some of those impressionable
experiences that kind of sets their character a little bit.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
I think.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And so we took a I tried to replicate the
trip that my dad took me on with them.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
We didn't have a pop up.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I just had the Volkswagen Jetta wagon and some tents
and you know, we just set out and went to
Glacier National Park and worked our way down through some
of the rockies and back home. But I was a
twenty eight day trip.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Awesome.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, that was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So they go with you regularly still or they off
doing their own thing.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yes, and yes.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So the oldest is out of college, he's been working
a couple of years. He's now engaged, so I'm quickly losing.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Access to that time temporarily.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Temporary, Yeah, until he had starts having kids and then.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, and then it'll ren not a whole new era.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah. And the youngest is.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
He just started. He just finished his first year of college.
And I just got back from a trip with him
because I drove any any excuse I get to take
a road trip, sure, I'm like, sign me up. And
so he was getting out of college and he's like,
I want to come home for the summer. I'm like,
all right, cool, so I'll just drive out, picked up
in the r V and we went up to.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
He was in Colorado. So then we went to Each Lake.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Minnesota's a little town called Walker, Minnesota. Leach Lake's the
third largest lake in Minnesota. And we went there for
the purpose of fishing, you know, Northern pike and what
other whatever else we could catch that was in season.
Had a great trip, three three days fishing in total,
(08:25):
caught lots of fish, and got back home like last Thursday.
So yeah, he's still pretty active and we have a
great time.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Awesome. So you're not stationed anywhere right now, you're.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Just I'm home, home office, and I'll stay here and
do a lot of out and backs, especially with the
business if there's an RV show. There's a music festival
in Ohio this summer. It's called Alive dot Org. Okay,
(08:57):
like twenty thousand people. I think there's like twenty bands.
It's at a fifteen thirteen hundred acre state park and
it's just a big music festival for three days.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I'm very pro music festivals. I hope to be able
to get into that when my kids get a little
bit bigger. We're just now sort of getting into our
camping era. I grew up camping with my parents every weekend,
my cousins, my aunts and uncles. Every single weekend. We
(09:35):
were at Joe Willers State Park usually is where we were,
but also tames Ford, just local. We didn't really go
too far off. I was a girl scout from kindergarten
until about sixth grade, and we were a very active
(09:56):
troop and we were camping all the time, and we
go on these we long trips, camping trips, and I
loved every minute of it and say, Okay, so I
was in the same girl Scout troop for this long
in a town of like eight hundred Wow. So yeah,
(10:17):
very small town, very small group. There was probably I
don't know, twelve fifteen of the same exact girls all
of these years, and not a single one of them
I made friends with. So it was definitely the camping
that had me and I just loved nature. I grew
(10:42):
up on a lot of farms. I had one grandfather
who had a horse farm, and then I had or
raised horses, and I guess you don't call horses on
a farm, but anyway, I had. My other grandparents were farms,
so we would travel around to different farms doing whatever
(11:04):
needed to be done, whether that was putting up fencing
or vaccinating sheep or you know whatever. And then at
my other grandparents I had, they lived on this gravel
road and she it was like it was really heilly,
(11:26):
So she lived at the top of this hill. My
dad's cousin lived next door to her, My uncle lived
next door to him, her brother lived like on the
top of the hill. Across the street was her other brother.
So they all lived on the same road and owned
probably two hundred acres give or take on both sides
(11:49):
of the road. So me and my I had a
cousin that was the same age as me, and we
would get up in the morning at like nine or
ten years old and take our baby guns and our
pocket knives and go trekking through the woods. And you know,
(12:09):
we were at our grandmother's house, but we would come
home for lunch and she would be gone, who knows
where she was at. And then we would feed ourselves,
usually with like squirrel or a bird, weed killed or something,
so we would we would clean it, gut it, cook it.
Sometimes it was edible, sometimes it was not, because you know,
(12:30):
we're like ten eleven and uh, just figuring it out.
But that was where I loved to be, was in
the woods. So I always make you know, people were like,
were you raising a barn? Yes? Yes, I was actually
a few of them. And so this is this is
how I grew up literally in the backwoods, just completely
(12:53):
lost in nature every single day from sun up to
sundown and just wild. And I unfortunately, my Girl Scout
group dismantled when I was in like the sixth grade,
which is why I didn't do it. Anymore. There was
no other options for me, and so, you know, fast
(13:16):
forward to I didn't really we didn't really camp anymore.
So we stopped camping as a family when I was
probably fifteen ish or so, and then I didn't anymore
at all until about a year or two ago. My
husband borderline city ga Okay, like he's not. But also,
(13:41):
they didn't camp, they didn't do wilderness, they didn't go
out into the woods or really fish or like anything. Right,
So very polar opposites. And for years and years and years,
I was like, let's go camping, Let's go camping, let's
go camping, and he was like, his idea of camping
was renting a cabin in like at a you know,
(14:05):
at a lake right or in the mountains. So we
would I would make fun of him because that's not camping,
And a lot of people would make fun of us
for RV camping because a lot of people say that
that's not camping.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
I am just happy with whatever baby steps I could
get him towards. So after a few years of cabins
in the woods and whatnot, we have a friend who
got us into kayaking. So he started spending a little
bit more time in nature, and he was like, okay, okay,
(14:42):
and then we went on this overnight kayaking camping trip
and he was It took us so long to talk
him into this. We were planning this trip for like
six to eight months because you can only take what
you can fit on your kayak. Right, We're going to
put in at Are you familiar with a Crazy Horse
(15:03):
at the Buffalo River in Tennessee? No? Okay, Well, great
place to check out. They have like three different types
of kayaking adventures that you can do, and two of
them are you know, you do the upper portion, which
is like ten miles and then you so they take
you upriver and then you float down to the campgrounds.
(15:26):
Or they had like a five mile where you put
in at the campgrounds and I might have these mixed up,
but it doesn't really matter, and they'll pick you up
downriver and bring you back to the campgrounds. But they
have a sixteen mile also where they take you way upriver.
You float as much as you can the first day,
(15:47):
find a spot somewhere on the bank to camp overnight,
get up the next morning and do the rest of
the sixteen miles all the way to the campground. So
that was what we were planning. He thought we were crazy.
He was like he was just like, we're like, we're
doing this and he was like, ha ha, right, and
you know, we're getting closer to it and getting closer
(16:08):
to it, and we're like, yeah, you know, we're we're
talking about what we're packing and what we bought and
our gear and what we can hold and hey, do
you do you are you bringing this because we don't
need two of them, and you know, and he's like,
ha ha ha, y'all are y'all are really putting on
about this this trip. And it got down to like
(16:32):
three weeks until we were leaving, and he was like,
wait a second, we're serious. We're serious. I'm not doing that.
I'm like, no, we're doing this. You've we've been talking
about this for like six to eight months. You're not
backing out now. Okay, three weeks until? No, If you're
not prepared, that's your fault. I'm sorry. So we went.
(16:53):
It was a blast, and I'm so thankful that we
had that experience and we had those friends that could
kind of like peer pressure him into going right, because
you know, he can just tell me no, be like no,
I'm not doing that. But he can't tell all of
us no like he could, but it's way less likely.
And that kind of kicked off. He was like, Oh,
(17:15):
this is not so bad. And the next thing I
knew that was all it took. The next thing I
knew he had bought us we now have. This was
like two years ago maybe, and in those two years
we now have like three different tents, because you know,
you need like three different sizes depending on what you're
doing and where you're going and who's going. And of
(17:37):
course we had the camper, which we were on our
second camper now, so when I met you, we had
just upgraded ours into a because my husband's kind of
a bigger guy. He's almost six foot, really broad shoulders,
so he felt really cramped, and the one that we had,
especially when you get the kids in there and everybody's
(18:00):
trying to move around and do things, so he needed
one that had like a slide out so that it
felt bigger. But anyway, I now we're camping every single weekend.
He's been texting me all morning because school gets out
this week. He's trying to figure out are we going
camping during the week next week or are we going
camping on the weekend next week. And we are now
(18:24):
in cub Scouts, which I have somehow gotten suckered into
being a cub Scout leader, So.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I'm take an hour a month, right.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Right, Well, I'm in the process of that, and we're
in a very active cub Scout group, which has been wonderful.
And you know, we signed up for the kids, and
it's been way more fulfilling and purposeful for us. Probably
(19:02):
the kids don't even really know. They're like, oh, we're
gonna go hang out with those people again, okay, because
it's all us doing everything at this point. They are
getting older. So my son just did his crossover to
Arrow of Light, so he's getting to the age where
things are fixing or really start getting for him.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, and that's I mean, it is so cool to
watch the kids in those Scout programs because you see
them evol and you're like, when they're that first entry
level club, it's like herding cats, I mean like literally
bouncing off the walls. And then by the time they
(19:47):
get to the Air of Light, you're like, Okay, they're
starting to shape up. And then fortunately mine went all
the way through and.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Eagle got their eagle.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And when you have a commonversation with kids that have
been through that program and compare them to a kid
who has had no structure and that kind of stuff,
it is night and death.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
It's just it's.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's the activity and the social side of it and
the structure.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
And you know, I think it's really.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Pretty awesome, which I really rebelled against at first because
I'm kind of anti structure. Yeah, I don't really like
being told what to do or how to do it
or what to wear, and that me crazy. But now
that but yet we're really again, we're really fortunate to
have an amazing group and some really awesome leaders, and
(20:44):
it's so worth it. It's so worth it. So like
now I'm a little less like fidgety about it, even
though you know, I was a Scout for but Girl
Scouts and Cub Scouts are two completely different things. And
you know, I say Cub Scouts, they're not boy Scouts anymore.
They rebranded, and I know a lot of people have
a lot of feelings about that. But you know, as
(21:08):
female myself who has a daughter and being going through
the Girl Scouts program, even though like I was very
fortunate to have a leader who really took us camping
and did the things and taught us how to survive,
you know, Like we did a lot of what would
(21:29):
be considered Cub Scouts things. A lot of people that
I've talked to who were Girl Scouts growing up didn't, Like,
I don't know of anybody actually I've talked to who
had a similar Girl Scout experience to what I did.
Most of them were like, I mean, we sold cookies,
but other than that, we sat at a table and
(21:51):
did some crafts, but that's about it. And you know,
I really wanted that experience for both of my children,
and I was so so so thankful to have the
opportunity to put them in the same program in our
local town. So, for one, I'm not My kids are
(22:15):
really close. They're only they're barely three years apart, and
which is not a big difference at all, And so
they're really close. They're really good friends. They have a
lot of the same friends, they get along well, they
still play together, they like the same shows, they play
the same video games. So for one, when we got
(22:37):
started in Cub Scouts, it was just my son, and
it was so heart wrenching to me to have to
explain to my daughter why she couldn't do the things
he was doing. And oh, but she did. Do you
know she completed or she launched a rocket, just like
he launched a rocket. And now he's getting a award
(23:01):
for his rocket. And she was just kind of glazed over.
And what's funny is that he doesn't care at all
about awards, like not at all. But she what's gonna
get me the trophy? I want the trophy, I want
the medal, I want the pins, Like how do I
get those? How do I earn them? Tell me what
to do? She's so competitive and he's like he don't care,
(23:24):
he doesn't care.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
At all, So where's my shirt?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
But there wasn't There wasn't a girl Scout Brownie opportunity
for her in our area at all. And if there
had been, you know, we're already strung so thin trying
to get to all of the functions. It would have
been a nightmare trying to make sure she got to
all of her stuff. And we did all of her
(23:52):
requirements for the things for the badges, for the patches,
and then we have to turn around and do something
completely different with him on a different night with different
people and different requirements. So I'm super thankful to just
you know, when they get like after Arrow of Light,
(24:13):
they start branching off two it does become boy Scouts
and girl Scouts, So they do become separate when they
become of age, which is like eleven ish, but before that,
it's just family oriented. It's just all of us doing
it together, which is what it would have been, which
is what it was already anyway, because you know, the
(24:34):
cub Scouts at that age have to have an adult
and so it was all four of us doing all
the things anyway.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think it'll all smooth out,
you know, and I think ultimately it's they'll spin it
into more of a youth leadership program mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
But yeah, totally worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
But to your point, no, you've really got to have
an active leadership.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
And they do.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Have the formulas if you if you follow the formulas,
but if you don't have the experience, you know, with camping,
it's kind of hard to teach others.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, you're having to learn yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah, you can't learn yourself. You can't be learning how
to yourself at the same time that you have all
of these not only the children, but their parents who
have no idea what They've never been camping, most of
them usually.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I mean we used have you know, moms would come
in and you know, whatever the situation was, it'd be
a single parent, and the mom is bringing the kids
in and trying to do the things that you know,
she thinks that a young boy is going to want
to do and takes them into the Scout program, has
(25:54):
no idea how to pitch a tent whatsoever. So everybody
just kind of chips in and but yes, those early experiences,
I think that, yeah, it's gonna set that marker for
whether you had a great time and you want to
do it forever or or not.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
You know, they say like one in five.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
People that go camping for the first time will never
go again, oh man, because of preparation and didn't have
a good experience.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Right, Yeah, you for sure when you start it is very,
very beneficial to start going with people who already kind
of know what to do and you know they've been
doing this, and that.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Sense of community.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, but that's hard to find sometimes.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Two So it is, especially when you come from a
small town.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Oh goshually I have a mirrored story.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I mean, you know, I was in rural Georgia.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
And I think there was like three kids within a
three mile radius.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Of my house. You know. Yeah, it's me and nature.
So the our cups true.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I mean I think we had four kids in it,
you know, and it was the mom that was leading it.
And you know, blessed part you tried and coming from Alabama,
you know what I mean when I say bless her heart.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, bless them all. But you know,
at least they're trying.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, it was great and there's the rewarding.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
That to me, the whole planning process is as much
fun that anticipation, just like you know, talking about you
and your husband going for six months. You know, you
talked about it and you built it up and you
planned and you know, there's that's part of the the fun.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
To me.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Oh I love it. I love it. We have you know,
it's a big old black and yellow toe you can
get from lows yep. Okay, well we have like four
or five of those. So we've been so this is
like this is probably year we're probably moving. We're definitely
moving into our third summer. So three summers ago is
(28:16):
when that trip that I talked about would have happened.
And so the group of friends that we went to
in that original trip have stuck. So we go kayaking
and camping with them almost every weekend, almost every time,
every like people are each other's off. Like we go
as often as we can kayaking during the warm seasons
(28:42):
averages probably three or four times a month, and then
camping we try to do at least once a month.
But we have our dynamic now, and that's kind of
what you need, is a dynamic. So, like my husband
and our friend Melissa are the ones that side where
we're going and when we're going, I'm the one that
(29:05):
makes sure everything's packed. Most of them, I don't even
know where we're going, Like it doesn't matter to me.
You just tell me when and how long, and I'm
at we get there. We get there, and like, no
one has sunscreen, So I'm the one that made sure
that I packed sunscreen for everybody. So I'm not packing
just for me and my husband and the kids, but
(29:25):
I'm packing for all six of us or sorry, how
many is there for? Five? Six, seven? So there's seven
of us that are for sure all the time together,
and then there's one that sometimes he's off and sometimes
he's not. But you know, I love the packing process
(29:48):
and it's like a mental puzzle for me. You know,
if we're going tent camping, then you need these things.
If we're going tent camping on with the kayaks and
you need these things. If we're in the RV, you
need these things. Like it's just the whole It's a
whole thing.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
So in our app, we have, you know, the concept
of lists, so you have vaculum and shopping, m whatever,
and carrying it that concept forward. I want to evolve
that into a set of templates. You know, it's like
you can see what somebody else's list is and like, oh,
I'm going to start with that, yeah, of it, and
(30:32):
then you can.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Just edit it.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
That would be so helpful, especially for beginners. So that's
a great thing that your your app would have a
wonder I bet it's wonderful for people who are just
starting out getting into it and don't really know how
to do it and don't really know where to start
or what you need and don't want to have a
bad time, or maybe they did have a bad time
and they're not even really sure how or what went wrong.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That's the goal, Yeah, to kind of make it a
go to resource, to simplify not necessarily I don't see
as a huge problem solver. It just has a lot
of the functionality that you need in one place, and
(31:16):
and for me, that was that was what I was after,
and I didn't want to get sucked into the you know,
the social media algorithms that manipulate your brain. And yes,
I just just give me something that I can save
my experiences because I want to have more fun in
(31:36):
my experience than on an appy.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
I'm just kind of counterint.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Well, a lot of people do the experience just to
post about it on the app, and you're missing out
on because you know. One of the reasons that I'm
so I kind of hate the word passionate honestly, but
about camping and being in nature and kayaking and all
(32:03):
that is because we've become so distanced from it in
our current society and culture. And I think that if
we could just make it more a part of our lives,
it would heal a lot of the issues that a
lot of us have with not only mental health but
(32:24):
physical health. And because you know, to be able to
go camping and kayaking and hiking and all of this,
you have to be somewhat fit and you get out
there and there's just there's so many benefits to it,
especially if you can find a group to go with.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
It.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Heals that that, you know, we have an epidemic of
loneliness and lack of connection to people. We're communal creatures,
but we've become so separated from one another that most
of us are lacking in that connection and fulfillment in
your heart and soul that you know, we feel like
(33:03):
something's missing, but we're not really sure what it is.
Most of the time, it's connections to our tribe, our village.
And if you can find just a handful of people
that you can go out and have these experiences with
and uh hahaha, dark humor, half nearly die together sometimes
because some of us can be kind of pretty scary,
(33:24):
you know. Yeah, you get on a kayak and a
river with some rapids that you know, and it's been
raining a little bit too much here lately, and now
there's not only is the water going pretty swiftly, but
there's all sorts of like debris like logs and just debris,
(33:44):
and it can be you flip and suddenly you're pretty
much in a life or death situation, even though most
of the time it's quite mild and not anything to
really panic over, but it puts a hole in perspective.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
There's a scout trip the boys went on. There's a
canoe trip in South Georgia. So they got in the
river and I think they had it was a two
day or three day trip, and they put the tents
up on night one. It was kind of close to
the water, but you know, eight inches or six or
(34:22):
eight inches or so above the water line. And everybody
wakes up and their shoes are floating in their tent,
and you know, the coolers are like floating off. It
had rained significantly upriver and all of that water was
making its way down and so the river was just
(34:44):
slowly rising and submerging everything. And that was you know, yeah,
they were kind of freaking out.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Sure, what an experience, though, you know, you walk away
from stuff like that with a story that to tell
for the rest of your life. Yeah, like, man, I
lost my favorite pair of shoes that day.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, and it gives you definite perspective. You know, It's
like some people are like how bad could it get?
And you're like, well, okay, now I have perspective.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
And that's the thing. That's another thing that I love
about about it all is that I take my kids
for you know, just two nights, a simple quick weekend
trip tent camping, not even kayaking, just simple tent camping,
sleep on the ground for a couple of days, and
they come back with such better attitudes about everything. We
(35:36):
all do. We all, you know, we get grumpy and
we're like irritable over dumb stuff that doesn't even matter.
And you go out there with no air conditioning to
sleep on the ground for a couple of days, and
you come back and you're like, wow, you know what
life is? All right?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah, it's gonna be okay.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Battle the element because we'll go we'll go cold camping,
like winter camping. Uh huh and yeah, yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You have you're not there yet, so you might see
have you done the winter camping and scouts?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah we did last year. This year we got snowed out,
iced out, like when we had it planned. There was
a big old winter storm coming through. So like, you know,
they're they're not about being dangerous or anything. They'll they'll
cancel for inclement weather, and we've had to do that
a lot this year because of ice and snow. So
(36:42):
we didn't get to do the cold camp we get.
We had it scheduled and then it got snow diceed out,
and then we rescheduled it, and then that one got
snow diceed out again, and then we were kind of
just out of winter.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Right, So yeah, we did our we went to minutes
somewhere in Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Oh, I mean it was extra cold up there in February. Yeah, see,
we're kind of even the dead of winter here in
Alabama is quite mild where we're a little spoiled. So
like we did, we did all purchase winter sleeping bags
(37:19):
this past year, and that has been highly recommend that
if you're if you're stuck between do I get a
winter sleeping bag or a summer sleeping bag. Just get
the winter sleeping bag and then if it's hot, unzip
it and stickulate out.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Right, Yeah, sleep on top of it.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, just grab an extra like just to
grab a little thin blanket we're on top. That's definitely
the way to go. And you know, you let you
learn these things.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
As you go, Yeah, I'm going through this phase. So
I'm gonna have to do some repair on the RD
because there's a slide out on the back and you know,
it's the whole system is built on this cann of
lever kind of and so when you hit rough highway,
you know, you're just bouncing and all of that weight.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
You know, we'll move things, break things.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
So I have some repair to do on that.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
So I'm gonna do a little more tent camping this year,
and I have to move from a there's a big
four It might even be a six man, but I
think it's a big four man tent ri I dome
tent to a more of like two man tent.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
So I love how you called it big. I love
how you called it big. We have we have a
four man tent, an eight man tent, and a sixteen
man tent that has three rooms in it. It's the
same size as our camper.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
It's hilariously obnoxious. We took it. We went to West Moreland.
Are you familiar with that?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Huh?
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Okay, we went camping there with the cub Scouts just
a couple of weeks ago and brought it for the
first time because the four man's not quite big enough
honestly for all four of us. Because for people who
don't know, a four man tent means that four people
can lay down in it and that's it. That's how
much room you have. There's no extra room for anything.
(39:25):
So if you have four people going, you kind of
need at least a six man tent to just be
able to move around and change and stuff. But an
eight mantens, what's going to be really comfortable? Man. People
were making fun of our sixteen man tent that we
had for the four of us. But let me tell
you what it was like, a whole you know, like
(39:45):
the Safaris When we were growing up, we saw Safaris
on TV and they had these like huge elaborate tents
and you walked in and it's like a whole, like
office on one side and a bedroom on the other side.
That's what we had, and it was amazing.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
So I'm all for it. And my husband will be like,
it's such a pain to put up. Not really, I mean,
you know, they're all kind of a pain to put
up somehow or another. That's really not that bad. Now,
if you're putting it up by yourself. Maybe you don't
want to do all that, but if you have help,
it's okay and worth it. Usually, Yeah, my son tends
(40:23):
to be a little more on the lazy side. He's
he's getting better though, now that he's understanding. You know.
That's the wonderful thing about cub scouts is it's very
similar to the dynamic in martial arts. Do I do that?
And what I love about the dynamics is that as
(40:46):
you progress as a student or as you know, a scout,
you get more responsibility put on you. And people forget that.
Children want responsibility. They want to be seen as an equal,
They want to be a part of the adults world,
you know. So if you start giving them a little
(41:09):
bit of responsibility here and there, sometimes there's a little
bit of pushback because they don't understand that cleaning your
room is responsibility in the same sense that they want it,
you know. But if you give them responsibility of like
I need you to run this relay, like be in
(41:30):
charge of this relay race and these younger kids and
make them, you know, get in a line and explain
the rules to them and tell them how to do it,
and they love that and they walk away from it
feeling more confident and like they're capable, you know, less anxiety.
It's the the dynamics of these things are invaluable, and
(41:56):
we're really missing out on a lot of them in
our culture, in our society. You know, somebody was talking
recently on a podcast I don't remember about how we
don't have any sort of like initiations into adulthood. So
you have a say, you have a twenty five year
(42:18):
old man. Guy, It sounds so weird calling a twenty
five year old a full blown adult, even for me,
But I like these kids. But you know, you have
a twenty five year old man and he's sitting there
waiting like, am I an adult?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yet?
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I'm like, because I don't really feel like I'm an adult.
And the quote unquote real adults in my life are
still treating me like I'm a child. So when am
I an adult?
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Right?
Speaker 1 (42:52):
And the thing about the initiation processes of say cub scounts,
as you level up, they honor all the the things
that you've accomplished moving towards this moment, and they highlight
all of the compliments accomplishments that you're going to pursue
(43:14):
in the next year and what all that means. And
you know, we're highlighting I keep saying responsibility, but it's
it's a lot more than responsibility. It's we did just
this past Tuesday was our basically graduation ceremony. What is
(43:36):
it called the bridging over the crossover ceremony. Yeah, And
I mean we did a crossover ceremony with our because
we were in a different pack. And then that pack
split off and made another pack that was trying to Yeah,
(43:59):
and and they became the boy and girl the co ed,
So that's where we're at. We kind of went with them,
and so the first crossover ceremony was nothing like the
crossover ceremony that we had this past Tuesday. The original
crossover ceremony was very It was like an awards ceremony,
(44:23):
which is fine, but there was no like emotional depth
to it. There was no like it was just kind
of like, Okay, here are the rewards, congratulations, walk over
the bridge, YadA, YadA, no big deal. But this pack,
these leaders really made a point to like they told
(44:45):
this whole story of which apparently like the other one
had a story too, but like this one was just
I don't know, done better. And like, so you have
the tiger, cause each for those who don't know each
level is like you have the bears and the tigers
and the lions, and uh oh my and uh so
(45:06):
each one of them like we would roar like a
tiger or roar like a bear and growl like a bear.
It was just it nearly had me in tears because
it just it touches that that tribal village connection initiation.
And the kids went home just uh like my daughter
(45:30):
was like, I I'm a bear now. Yeah. Yeah, She's like,
I'm a bear now. And and I get to teach
the tigers how to do things and they don't know
and they don't know how to do this, and but
I do. And I'm going to tell them now and
I'm going to show them how to do it and
then then they'll yes, it's so amazing. And it's give
(45:54):
me chills just talking about it just now. And we've
lost those ceremonies, know, and the ceremonies that we've kept
have become so dull and agonizing, like we have to
go to the school awards ceremony tomorrow and I'm just like, God,
there's nothing I want to do less right.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
It's funny. I had forgotten about those crossovers. But I
was a leader for in Scouts for a number of years,
so I've saw a lot of different varieties, and you're right,
there's a range. Like some of them are just amazing.
Like the most memorable one, we have a Native American
(46:39):
who was associated with Scouts, not necessarily in our troops,
but in the area.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
And he's in the Order of the Order of the Arrow.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And they sent set up he set up a full
blown teepee and we were like back in the woods
and there's like literally this little wooden bridge that you
had to go over to get this area, and they
have the campfire out there and everything was only you know,
torch lit by torches and the fire and he was
(47:11):
on the drum, you know, doing his Native American song
and just it was a full blown ceremony. And yeah,
that gets emotions, it does.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
It touches the inner depths of your soul.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, and kids are gonna remember that, mm hmm. It's
it's really pretty incredible.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah. We need we need more of that more in
our like society culture. And I think the problem is
is that America is the melting pot you know, so
we don't. We've a lot of us have lost our
culture and our connection to it. A lot of us
don't know what culture to even like turn to and
(47:55):
start as our own. And then when you don't have
because I mean, like we sure we can all make
our own traditions, but how silly do you feel making
your own traditions with your friends? And you get this
drum circle out and you're like, no, we're gonna do
the we do the kumbaya together. Like so you might
(48:18):
have like a one or two people who are who
are like, yeah, let's go and uh if you're lucky, honestly,
but most people are like this dumb soon of stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Yeah, and it you know, of course I'm want to
try to put a camping spin on it, but if
you really think about it, every single person on this
planet has he has come from a people who, at
some point in time we're camping as a primary you know,
mode of existence. Yeah, and you're right, you know, we
(48:54):
all come from these little cultural backgrounds, but they get
lost over time and then you know, maybe we're just rediscovering.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
It on it, Yes, yes, and I think we should
really put more effort into rediscover like I have these
one friends. The husband's like, yes, I want to go
camping so badly with you, And then the wife's like,
absolutely not, I'm not doing that. I am not doing that.
There's not enough air conditioner in the world. I'm not
going you know. That's yeah, it's quite common, quite common,
(49:29):
But like I can't begin to highlight the healing that
you get from sleeping under the stars. And like you
and I say that not necessarily as meaning like you
have to roll your sleeping bag out on the grass
and sleep literally under the stars. But you know, sitting
around a campfire, hanging out with your friends looking at
(49:53):
the stars, like is that you think that's a satellite
or a plane? There's what cond stellation is that? And
now that we have pretty well access to the internet
wherever we go, it's that much more fun because I
have like plant identification apps, so you know, the kids
will bring me a flower and I'm like, let's see
(50:15):
what it is, Let's see what if it's good for anything.
And so now we're learning about that. Oh look, it's
a real life Pokemon. You know. We found like a
big caterpillar. It's like, oh, it's a real life Pokemon.
And what constantly you know, let's see if we can
figure out what constellation this is or that is, or
what's in the stars tonight. It's it brings us a
(50:37):
sense of fulfillment that is lacking in our community. And
you know, camping can be scary and we're definitely biased,
but the benefits are just amazing and they'll, you know,
the benefits grow and they build on top of each other.
You know, we never expected when I was trying to
(51:01):
talk my husband into camping. I knew that nature was
awesome and it felt good to be out there, and
I wanted my kids to experience that. But I never
dreamed that we'd end up having friends that went with
us camping all the time, and that we would build
these communal bonds and fulfill things within us that we've
(51:24):
always been searching for and didn't exactly know what we
were even searching for. We just knew that something was missing,
and it's like, oh wow, it's connection to each other,
and we found it here, which you can find in
other places, for sure. But there's nothing like braving the
wilderness and surviving a day or two and.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Right having been through a journey together.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I did a last year.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
I called it My forty Days in the Desert Trip, Okay,
and it was pretty pretty darn accurate. I went out
to there was a show that I went out to
in court side of Arizona, and from there I wanted to,
you know, just see what the desert was like. And
(52:17):
what I learned is on my way out there, I
was going through New Mexico and it had just rained
several days in a row, and they had what the
desert they call it the super bloom, and everything the grass,
the ground was green, the every all the flowers just
(52:38):
like everything pops at once. You know, it looked surreal,
and I'm like, I'm coming back and I'm gonna camp
hear this first. And I did for a few days.
And then I found another spot that was up on
top of the mountain overlooking Tucson looking to the west,
and it looked like more door, you know, and you
(52:59):
know of the rings when they're looking across the valley,
and it must have been ninety miles and you know horizon,
you know visibility, and it probably fifty miles this way
and fifty miles this way, and you could you really
can't explain what you see and feel and experience until
(53:22):
you do it. But I sat up on that mountain, no,
no joke for eight days.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
I had enough.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Supplies and I was totally off grid except for my
Starlink satellite.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
I did have Starlink satellite.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
But yeah, I sat up on that hill for just
you know, days and watched the sunset and processed everything
because you know, for me, there's major phases in life.
You know, you have childhood, you go to you know,
college and that's a major ship, and then you get married, majorship,
(53:58):
have kids, majorship, kids get grown, kids start to move out,
major shift, you know.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
So that was me last year.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
So I just kind of use that whole trip, you
know as personal me time. Yeah, figure out you know what, okay,
what does the next part of life look like? And
there's a lot of processing that has to go and
you need time to to really work through all of those.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
Things mentally and.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Get everything lined up in terms of some form of
a plan you know, for life, because all your plans change.
But you know it's really good to just sit out
at that time and you know, I get it now,
you know, the forty days in the desert, Yeah, you
can you'll do some introspection.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Oh yeah, complete transformation. You come back changed for the better,
you know, And that's what I'm talking talking about with
the healing. You come back with a different perspective on things,
and suddenly you're not Suddenly you don't have road rage anymore,
and you're just kind of mosying along instead of trying
(55:14):
to drive fast and get there and get mad at
everybody that's going slow. And you know, and the perspective
of it not only from giving yourself space to think,
which is all most of us need, honestly, we need
(55:36):
just those beautiful views in the fresh air and the
space to just introspect and prioritize and think about what
the truth is because a lot of us, a lot
of our problems come from the stories and our heads.
And so you get out there and you're like, Okay,
(56:00):
my kids have not abandoned me. They are just going
through the natural motions of life and this is okay,
And well, did I tie my entire identity to being
their parent? Well? Who am I? Now? What do I want?
(56:20):
Where is this going? Can I give them space to
develop and spread their wings and experience life independently for
a little while and just maintain a safe place for
them to come back to if they need And a
(56:41):
lot of people, if you go out into nature and
just sit there and you're bored with that, that's probably
exactly what you need to do more of.
Speaker 3 (56:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah, And people are like, what do you do when
you're out there? And the last it's like, oh yeah,
it's answering all of those questions everybody head and I'm
just like processing.
Speaker 1 (57:11):
Yeah, because you know, society and culture, the everyday hustle
and bustle of life is too busy. It's too distracting.
There's too many flashing lights, there's too many news sections
of oh yes, oh yes, it's all garbage, and you know,
like and we get so wrapped up in it, and
we're comparing ourselves to others and we're thinking our priorities
(57:35):
are different than what they are, and we're searching for
happiness and peace, and it's like you find all of
that in the doing of less, and sometimes you need
to just go out into the middle of nowhere in
order to do the less. Because you know, if we're
at home in our everyday lives, we have we have
(57:58):
a little bit of choice in wiggle, but for the
most part, like we just kind of get swept away
in all of the thing, all the responsibilities and the
chores and the errands and the relationships that we need
to maintain, and the work and the making the money
so that we can buy the groceries, and like, it's
(58:18):
just all the things. But if you go out into
nature for a week, even a couple of days, it
doesn't even have to be that extreme to go out
there for a couple of days, you start to realize
that you can do with a whole lot less and
be a thousand times happier for it. So now there's
(58:42):
this there's this story in Mexican culture, and I'll just
give you the cliff notes so that I don't take
up like fifteen minutes with this, But basically, there's a
fisherman and a businessman and the fisherman catches five fish
every day and three feet is family, and he sells
to in townusinessman's will like, well how long does that
take you? And he's like, ah, like an hour. And
(59:05):
he's like, well, what do you do with the rest
of your day? And he was like, well, I like
to take naps, and I like to take my dog
and a walk and I hang out with my wife
and I play with my kids. And he's like, well,
if you spent just two extra hours, you could catch
this many fish, and then you could sell this many fish,
and then you can make money. And then then you
could buy a boat, and then you could catch this
(59:27):
many fish and then you could sell them and make
this much money. And then you can hire people who
do all the fishing for you, and then you can
buy a really nice house, and then you can And
then he's like, well what would I do? What would
I do then? And I was like, well, you could
do whatever you want. The businessman, you know, you can
do whatever you want. He's like, well, that's what I
do now. So when you we're all our culture and
(59:52):
society chases, were constantly chasing the things that we think
are going to make us happy because consumerism and marketing
has told us that that's what we need in order
to be happy, when really we just need a whole
lot less. A whole lot less less is more minimalism,
(01:00:16):
camping nature nature provides. Yeah, got my vote, mine too.
We can go ahead and wrap this up if you'd like,
tell people more about your app and what you have
going on.
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
So Camping Tools the app, it's a website and a
mobile app. We pitch it as an online journal so
you can plan your trips. It has social features so
you can share, you know, you'll save your memories like
you're gonna you know, upload a photo or a video
and it goes to the timeline of your trip and
(01:00:59):
then you can share that whole trip with friends if
you want to. So you know, it has the things
in it. This is you know, design that I've been
working on for years, and it brings together the tools
that you want, the utility that you want to have
without introducing all of those algorithms that you know, trigger
(01:01:22):
dopamine release every time you scroll and you know you
see alike and that kind of thing. So we're trying
to stay away from that. Kind of think of it
as organic food for your brain. It's a little more
wholesome hopefully than what you get out of traditional social
(01:01:42):
but it still gives you the features that you want
in the context of camping, so.
Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
You can see what other people are doing.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
There's a marketplace out there, you can write blog post
about it. And for me personally, the thing that I
like about it is that I'm capturing my story and
I'm saving it for my kids. I've got hard drives
with pictures and stuff, and you know, they're on my
phone in the computer, and it's just the organization and
(01:02:12):
maintenance of it.
Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
All is just nuts.
Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
It's a whole job.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
This app, you know, is designed to simplify from that
and make it easy to yeah, save your memories.
Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Yeah, because if you're anything like me, we've we have
not yet been to the same camping place twice m h,
unless you count our kayak camping because there's only so
many places that you can do that. So aside from that,
because we do frequent the same locations with kayaking because
(01:02:49):
there's only so many places that you can do that,
but as far as camping goes, we haven't gone to
the same place twice yet, And it gets really jumbled
in my head, which place is what so? And like
my husband with his memory, I don't know how he
does it, but he'll be like, oh, yeah, this was
(01:03:10):
what we did at this location, and this is what
we did at this location. For me, it all kind
of blends together. So I don't know if we were
at Davy Crockett when we did that or if we
were at Honeycomb when we did that, or if we
like it just kind of. So I imagine that would help
keep that straight a little bit. I've been wanting to
(01:03:30):
document our stuff a little bit better, just so that
I can keep my own memories straight. But I also
really like the practicality because you know, people who are
into camping and stuff generally like the utility. They like
(01:03:50):
to be practical. They don't like all the frizzles and
the fras. They they want, you know, is it useful?
Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Right, And.
Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Especially if you're just getting started and you don't have
anybody in your real life that you can that can
help you get started who knows how to like point
you in the right direction, and googling everything is so
overwhelming when you're starting from scratch to to search and
read is that's a whole job in and of itself.
(01:04:21):
It's much easier to have somebody that you can connect
with who's done it. So, you know, I imagine that's
really good for that. And you can get on there
and ask questions if you need questions answered. And like
you said earlier, with the lists.
Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Yeah, so we're actually implementing an aim that does just
what you're talking about. If you have questions, especially if
you're new, just give me a good recommendation. I don't
need twenty different recommendations.
Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
I need one.
Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
And we're hoping that AI, you know, trip Planner will
answer a lot of those for.
Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
The the newcomers.
Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
That would be cool, awesome, And I hope that people
listen to all this and they're like maybe, and they
give it a try, they give camping a try, they
give the app a try, and don't give up because
just because you have one bad experience, it's you know,
everything is a learning curve until you figure it out.
Everything's hard until it becomes easy. Literally, it will become easy,
(01:05:24):
but it's gonna be hard first everything.
Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
And it's fun.
Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
It is so much fun and so rewarding. But thank
you so much for Yeah, this has been a blast.
Thank you for coming on and letting me talk about
all of this.
Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing it.
Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Yeah uh yeah. All right, we'll let everybody go and
if y'all have any questions, please feel free to reach
out
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