NLS 578: Harvard Doctor REVEALS Ancient METHOD to WEATHER the COMING STORM for HUMANITY! with Dr Tony Nader

Dr. Tony Nader discusses the interconnectedness of inner and outer reality, emphasizing the importance of transcending sensory experiences to access a deeper, more expansive self. He shares his journey from a Christian upbringing to becoming a neuroscientist and philosopher, highlighting the transformative impact of Transcendental Meditation (TM). Nader describes his 20-year collaboration with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the scientific validation of TM, and its societal benefits, including the Maharishi Effect. He advocates for individual and collective meditation practices to foster global peace and well-being, ultimately aiming to expand human consciousness and happiness.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Next Level Soul podcast, where we ask
the big questions about life. Why are we here? Is
this all?

Speaker 2 (00:09):
There? Is?

Speaker 1 (00:10):
What is my soul's mission? We attempt to answer those
questions and more by bringing you raw and inspiring conversations
with some of the most fascinating and thought provoking guests
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(00:34):
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head over to Next levelsoul dot com forward slash Subscribe Disclaimer.

(00:59):
The view who's and opinions expressed in this podcast are
those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the
views or positions of this show, its host, or any
of the companies they represent. Now today on the show,
we welcome doctor Tony Nader, and Doctor Nader is an
expert in transcendental meditation. He spent the last twenty twenty

(01:22):
five years of the Maharishi's life working with him expanding
the TM and transcendental meditation, and our conversation goes deep
into how meditation can save humanity, what is the purpose
for all of us while we are here during this
great change, and much much more. I absolutely love talking

(01:46):
to doctor Nator, and I think you guys will enjoy too.
Let's dive it. I like to welcome to the show,
doctor Tony Nator. How are you doing, doctor Tony?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
By and thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
I'm well, thank you so much for coming. I'm When
you came across my I was very excited because I've
been a fan of the Maharishi. I've been a fan
of trans dental Meditation for a long time, and of
course consciousness, and I've had many people on the show,
but I've never had someone who met the Maharishi directly

(02:17):
and had an interaction with him. I think I had
one other person. He also met the Beatles that day,
but that's another conversation all together. So before we jump
down those rabbit holes, were you raised spiritually? Did you
have any kind of religious background when you were coming up?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, I was raised Christian in the background, went to
a Jesuit school for twelve years in Lebanon, and so
I was strong and I still in some many ways
a spiritual seeker and also living in something that is

(02:55):
bigger than the material world that we see around us.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Isn't it the Jesuits who said that give me I
think the quote is give me a boy for the
first seven years, and I will tell them, I will
tell you what then, the man he will become. Is that?
Have you had that time?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
It could be, Yeah, it could be. It's typical, yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Because it's like those seven years of the programming years
where our software is being being kind of being developed
as where as we're moving forward.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, definitely. I mean there is always a chance to
update the software and thank.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
God, thank god. It's like I always joke, as like
we do the first seven years we learn, we get
programmed for the first seven years and the rest of
our lives trying to deprogram ourselves from those first years
as we.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Grow an evolved Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
So what got you? Well, first you went down the
road of beingcoming a doctor working in neuroscience. What what
drew you to that? To that world?

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I was always fascinated to understand human being what can
we do about them? And you know, I come from
a family where there were many many doctors, uncles and
nephews and cousins and you know, grandparents and all of that,
and so I was kind of destined to be in
the medical profession. But in my heart it was both things.

(04:18):
First advocation to help others, but also to understand how
we can develop our full potential, how can we be
the best we can And thinking that human physiology and
body is what really is the making of who we
are besides our inner spiritual side. I thought, if I

(04:41):
understood what are the motivations that make people do what
they do or think the way they think, maybe I'll
understand more about how I can develop myself and help
others develop their full potential.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
So as you were growing up very similar to me,
I was raised Catholic. It it is a way of
impressing upon you that there was a greater power in
the universe than you. There was a higher power than you,
regardless if you might have believed in the dogma or
not believe in the dogma. But it at least planted
that seat. It sounds like that's what happened with you

(05:15):
as well.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah. Absolutely, I was one of those, you know, who
was defending the existence of God, but trying to find
also logics for it, trying to overcome mysteries which were
also baffling in the sense of there are so many
unknowns and you have to depend on faith. And I

(05:36):
thought that truth is one and why can't we human
beings understand it? And often you are told that this
is beyond the human intellect, beyond the ability to grasp,
you know, the understanding of you know, supreme mysterious mysteries
of divine nature. But I was a seeker of trying

(05:58):
to feel and understand how we can get closer to
the divine, how we can get closer to God or
to that spiritual power or energy or something different than
just our physical reality. And so I kept looking in
that direction, and actually I think I have found the answers,

(06:21):
which can sound pretentious, but it's a lifetime search and
it really allowed me to come with some great solutions.
Looking at it from different perspectives, from Eastern perspective, from
different religions, different aspects of the Bible, the Ancient Testament,

(06:42):
the Modern Testament, whatever they call it, from different perspectives,
even the beliefs of the Islam and Buddhism and Hinduism
and Taoism and Confucuism and philosophy and all of that.
So I did start as a medical doctor, but I
went a lot into philosophy of of the mind, philosophy

(07:05):
of science, and understanding how we can answer those big,
big questions in life.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
How did you balance your right and left brain? Because
to become a medical doctor it's very grounded. You know, material,
I'm fixing something material, It's it's not woo woo at all.
And then on the other side, it's like as your
side hustle, you would you would be studying the metaphysical

(07:33):
stuff and the the more esoteric ideas, I mean, philosophies
and things, those two things. Generally, the philosophical doctor is
generally not a thing that exists, generally.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Speaking exactly and specifically also a lot of Yeah, you know,
people have hobbies, and I was. I liked hobby, I
liked exercise, I like sports, I had friends and all that.
But when I had a time, you know, I read

(08:08):
and I read. I read the philosophers, the existentialists, I
read the different you know, perspectives from idealist perspective from
different schools of philosophy, and it was my hobby and
a way of getting into something intellectually stimulating besides the

(08:29):
critical intelligence, you know, and critical thinking of the left brain.
And I was lucky that I learned transcendental meditation at
the beginning of my medical school and it accompanied me
and was giving me not just an intellectual knowledge but
also a profound direct experience, which was really something missing.

(08:52):
Oftentimes we have in science and philosophy intellectual understanding and
logic and all of that, but there are theories and
then one of the best ways to grasp reality is
through direct experience. However, direct experience comes to us through
the senses. And I have learned through medical study and

(09:16):
neuroscience and psychiatry and neurology and all of what I
have been through that our senses are open to huge
levels of interpretation by the brain itself, that what we
see is not necessarily what is there exactly. It's only
one aspect, one layer of reality. And so the direct

(09:39):
sensory experience was not a reference, but within ourself there
is a system of transcending, of going beyond the sensory
experience into the self and then experiencing within ourselves something
of a bigger nature, of a larger proportion, of greater

(10:02):
depths and greater wits, and greater ability to see something
which you know, we have heard about and as I
was growing up, I have heard about in terms of
you know, what they call saints who had moments of epiphany,
moments of beattitude, and people who were you know, like

(10:24):
Saint Augustine was not a believer. He was walking on
the beach and he was his mother was a great
Catholic and believer, but he was of a completely different opinion.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
And then he had an experience, one amazing experience, a
moment of awakening, and he felt there is something spiritual
that is beyond just the physical reality, and so he
started to look into it and became, you know, a
religious person because that was what is available for him

(11:08):
in terms of knowledge. And so, you know, in answer
to the question, I was practicing transcendental meditation and it
gave me this experience in a systematic way, which means
not just I don't know why I'm feeling like this.
Suddenly you know, there are elements in life that put

(11:29):
you at a point where you suddenly experience some beautiful
something and then you want to search it again, you
want to have it again. You know, it's really what matters,
because we live our lives through our consciousness, through our awareness,
and if your awareness experiences that woldness, that fullness, you

(11:49):
really feel closer to something more divine than the daily
daily you know where it is of life, et cetera.
And then you start wanting to have it again. And
so I was lucky during this program at the beginning
of my medical students school to learn transcendental meditation, and

(12:10):
in spite of the chaos that was around me because
I grew up in Lebanon, I did my medical schooling
at the American University in Beirut, and there was a
civil war which was terrible and just made me think,
what are people doing? You know, what is going on? Why?
Why so much hatred, why so much nonsense, why so

(12:36):
much killing, etc. Etc. And they, you know, what, can
they find a solution on a certain level. And so
it pushed me to try to understand more human mind.
That's why later I studied psychiatry and you know, the
neurology and the brain science, neuroscience, but in the middle
of all of that, there was one reference point that

(12:58):
was always with me, and it is my true inner self,
and that is transcending, which means to go beyond the
surface level of the mind, the surface level of considerations,
of memories, of attachment, even of everything, and go to
a peaceful inner place where you're feeling really really settled

(13:22):
and expanded. And so that anchored me in that wonderful
place that you know, inspired me. Even though I continued
my medicine, I continued my psychiatry and later on, so
it took like ten years of scientific research and study
and all of that, but this was really the anchor.

(13:43):
And that's why I when I finished, you know, medical
school and specialization and brain science and got a PhD.
On top of the MD, I just wanted to explore
that field of consciousness more because I knew it's a
level of reality and a level of experience that can

(14:06):
make all the difference and how one lives one's life
really independently of logic and you know, convincing and compromising
and all of that.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
So before we go down the before we talk about
the Maharitian and that experience with transcendental meditation. You said
something a second ago that really stuck with me when
you said that you're looking at physical things in the
in this reality, but you're able to But that's just
one layer of what it is. Can you kind of

(14:38):
explain that to people who don't understand that concept.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, it's I mean, the best way is to take examples.
For example, we know that our eyes see only a
certain frequency of light from the red to violate. You
don't see infrared, so like lower frequencies, and you don't
see ultraviolet which has higher frequencies, and you don't see

(15:04):
X rays and gamma rays and all of that. But
all of these are different wavelengths of electromagnetic field. So
you have all these wavelengths of light, just vibration of light,
and we see only one part of the spectrum, so
that is limited, so we see only a certain aspect

(15:26):
of reality. We don't see the whole thing. For example, hearing,
we also have a certain range of decibels or frequency
of sound that we hear, and the dog, for example,
hears more than what we actually can hear. And so
these are just simple examples. They tell us that actually,

(15:48):
already our senses are limited in their ability to see
what we conceive as the environment. So we are really
building the environment based on what our sensus allows us
to see. And it's real and it's necessary. I don't
say that, you know, we all agree, and we have

(16:09):
to have a world in which we all agree, and
we agree on that, and we live in that. Now.
What is also interesting is that reality is different in
different states of consciousness. For example, when you are dreaming,
your brain constructs the reality which is not the reality

(16:32):
that you live when you are awake, and during the
dream you believe in it. It's not that it's you know,
it's you sit in there and observe it and say, well,
I'm watching a movie. You're not watching a movie. You're
an actor in it. And the reality for you is
whatever you are dreaming about. It's completely real. If you're

(16:54):
dreaming of a tiger bouncing on you, your heart rate
is going to increase, your easing great, your muscles will
tense and more, and you know there will be a reaction,
even though in dreaming the muscles are completely paralyzed so
that you don't act on it. You start running away
from the tiger. So that's one part. But the reality

(17:18):
is different than during the dream than it is in
the waking state. And so many psychological studies have shown
that we construct, actually the world and we see constructs
reality based on what our senses allow us to see
and how our brain reconstruct those realities also from within.

(17:43):
So indeed, you know, for example, if you take color
blind people, they will see things from a different perspective
and different colors. Now you can say this is superficial,
but studies have been done that show that what we
see and what we experience is actually only one aspect

(18:05):
of the reality of what is out there. Now this
has become more acute and more dramatic when scientists started
to look into the finer levels of the physical universe,
and there, you know, they go from molecules to atoms,
to particles, subparticles, you know, and then they found that

(18:29):
actually everything is based on waves, electromagnetic waves. That means
that what we call matter and physicality is actually ultimately
on the finest level, is like an ocean having waves,
and we are looking at one wave rather than looking

(18:50):
at the ocean. And so as you go deeper, scientists
have found that there is more unified levels of nature,
ultimately leading to what they call the unified field of
all the laws of nature, which is one field is
like an ocean. Let's say that appears as many waves
and many vibrations, and that we as humans we see

(19:14):
them as different on the surface level, but they are
actually all interconnected, and they are based on a deeper reality,
which is the reality of the ocean. So if your
eyes can only see the wave, let's say you're sitting
on a wave and the ocean in a boat, and
let's say your eyes have only the ability to see

(19:35):
that one particular wave with the boat on which you are,
then your whole reality is that wave. You don't know
that there are even other waves and how to interact
with the other waves. And if you expand your awareness
more and more, you can see more of the other waves.
And if you dive deep, actually into the ocean, you

(19:57):
will find that all these surface waves waves are part
of one ocean.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
So this is how to simplify the idea, or maybe
you know, I don't know how to At the extent,
it sounds simpler now that indeed, indeed, there is a
reality which is deeper than what we see on the surface,

(20:33):
that we cannot fathom with our senses, but we can
fathom with our intellect at some level, and a deeper
level with our direct experience.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
This makes a lot of sense because even now, if
we're on the on the ocean in the boat looking
at waves, our perception is basically the waves. But there
is miles, literally miles of depth of ocean that things
are happening there, and we can't perceive what's going on
on and there we have to have machines to go
down and even then we still have very limited, you know,

(21:06):
holes in a submarine to see what's happening. We still
don't have a complete understanding of what's happening down there.
I always use the example of consciousness, and I'd love
to hear your opinion on this. I feel that consciousness
is we're at the bottom of the Mariana Trench and
because we're so deep down there, it's extremely difficult to move.

(21:28):
There's a lot of pressure on you and it's just
a little bit it's just very, very difficult to move.
Hence our reality here it's you know, this dense three
dimensional reality. As we rise our consciousness through meditations, through
awakenings and things like that, we start to go towards
the surface. And if anyone who's ever been in the
ocean knows, the closer you get to the surface, the

(21:51):
easier it is to move. It's a little bit easier
to see now because there's light coming from the sun.
Down in Mariana Trench, there's no light. But as we
keep going up raising our consciousness, we start to see more,
start to move more. The break point. The breaking point
is the surface, beyond the surface where air hits. That

(22:12):
is the other side. That is where masters live, that's
where saints live, that's where Source lives, and so on.
And we're all trying to get to that place because
once you break through that field or that layer, it's
easy to move. It feels like a completely other universe
from even being in the water afoot is so different

(22:35):
than being out of the water for a foot. So
we're always trying to raise our consciousness and the other
side it has a difficult time going down into the
ocean because why would they like it's not the laws.
What do you think of that analogy? I'd love to
hear your thoughts on that.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
It's interesting from a certain point of view because you know,
analysis illustrate reality, they are not actually exact reality of course,
of course, and analogies have you know their limitations also,
so you can see it from different different perspectives. So
if you say you can you know there is a

(23:11):
point at which you are acting on the surface and
you need there to have your senses projected outside, then
of course that is where you are an awaking state
of consciousness. That's what we call the usual waking state
of consciousness. And the question is how deep is your

(23:34):
perception from where does for example, your creative creative thoughts,
where do they come from? And they come actually from
a deep level which you are not aware of. We
can call this subconscious or the unconscious or deeper levels
where thoughts come. And then oh, we are on the surface.

(23:56):
We see the thought, we experience it, and we live it,
and we are are calm and familiar with that. This
is I feel, this is where the analogy kind of
takes a different direction, and the sense that if you
are the ocean, then you are no more an individual

(24:19):
wave or an individual that is waiting for the air
on the surface to breeze and to be seeing things
from this perspective. If you are the ocean yourself, which
is what you know, I propose and which the ancient
Vedic you know knowledge and Marici whom you mentioned, from

(24:41):
whom I have learned this and experiencing this myself, then
you are a master of the entire ocean because you
are that. And so there is a technology of actually
diving into that ocean and being more more and more
comfortable as you dive, and actually finding that you see

(25:05):
more and more once you are acclimatized and able to
be on that level. So this is where the analogy stops,
because if a human being dives into the ocean, you know,
you need to have a scuba diving or breathing machine,
and you have only some oxygen. So the analogy has
its limitation. But if we take it that you are

(25:28):
the ocean, then you are no more just an individual
who's waiting to come on the surface to get some
fresh air. You just are the ocean. And one aspect
of yourself is that surface aspect where you want to
create movement, where you create things. So here we say
that if you want to create a big wave on

(25:51):
the surface of the ocean. You have to have the
depths of the ocean available to you to create a
big wave, because in a little cup of water you
can only create triples, maybe an a swimming pool a
little more and a lake slightly bigger waves. But if
you want to be dynamic on the outside and we

(26:12):
powerful on the outside, you have to create powerful waves.
And you can only create powerful waves from the depths
of a powerful, deep ocean. And since we are the ocean,
therefore we are all we have all these levels. And
that brings us actually nicely to the questions we've discussed before,

(26:36):
where the vision of what is us? Who are we?
Who are you? What are you? Are you the wave? Yes,
you are the wave when you are on the surface,
but in reality you have forgotten that you are the ocean.
And that is where the technologies of consciousness to expand

(26:58):
consciousness you actually they don't expand outward, although that has
its own importance, and we can come back to that.
But the way to expand is to go inward, so
to close the eyes and take the senses and interescendental meditation.

(27:19):
We use the sense of hearing the sound because we
use a mantra that has no meaning, a sound, and
the mind actually settles down where that sound, which we
teach as a part of the practice, is a vehicle
that allows you to acclimatize and dive deep, and dive deep,

(27:41):
and dive deep within and feel more and more comfortable
and actually blissful and expanding. This is where you expand
the wave to start feeling I am the ocean, not
just the wave. And then when you are at the
bottom of the ocean, then all things settled down. There

(28:01):
is total silence, There is kind of nothingness on the
surface activity, but there is still wakefulness. This is what
is beautiful because when you practice this technique, you dive
deep within and you find the quietness, the silence, the
silence settling in. But you don't lose awareness. In fact,

(28:24):
you experience and these millions of people have experienced it,
you experience the awareness expanding. It's no more limited in
terms of one thought, one feeling, one worry, one memory,
what I have done, what should be done? What are
my beliefs, my limiting beliefs, what people have told me,

(28:45):
the stress that I have. You transcend all that. And
when you transcend all that, you literally experience yourself as unbounded,
and that is really where when you come back to
the so you come back with that whole power of
the ocean that has all these steps.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
So it sounds to me that when a soul is
able to in this incarnation transcend, when they are able
to get to a certain place in their evolution spiritually,
they are basically you're in a search for truth, the
truth that who you truly are. We have been lied

(29:27):
to by reality that we are just these bones and
muscle and meat sacks, as they say, skin sacks full
of meat walking around where it is just a suit.
And the more you start to awaken, the more you
understand the truth of reality and also the truth of
who you truly are. And these saints that we're talking about,

(29:49):
like the Maharishi and Yogananda and Jesus and Buddha and
these kind of people, we're able to transcend the reality
but still balance themselves and within the reality to help others.
Going you do you're the ocean? Do you not understand
you're the ocean? And everyone's like no, no, no, we're
still on the beach. We're not even looking at We're

(30:12):
not even in a boat in the ocean. Yet what
are you talking about that? Once you understand is that?
Does that make sense? We'll be right back after a
word from our sponsor and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Absolutely, yes, absolutely, that's exactly that that that's exactly the
reality that you know. They use the term enlightenment and
you know, which means getting to the light and seeing
things because you express the term of knowing the truth.
The truth was you know, an a capital characters or something,

(30:56):
the ultimate truth, which is not thyself. But you know,
people have interpreted know thyself to mean no your qualities,
no your limitations, no, what you can do, what you
cannot do. But that was not really the wisdom that
was man. The wisdom which is thought in all actually

(31:17):
religions is that you are the infinite, unbounded, pure being,
and you are totality. You are the ocean. And you know,
if you want to take Christianity, that says the Kingdom
of Heaven is within you. And you know the Bible
humans were made and the image of God. So even

(31:39):
the physical body is actually an expression, one layer of
the expression of reality which allows us to live in
the surface value. But that is not the end of
all that We are. What we are is the ocean,
but we're enjoying the waves. We're enjoying one wave and

(32:02):
the other wave. But when you forget that you are
the ocean, then many problems arise. You start thinking the
other wave is going to hit you, and it's going
to take away from you, and it's gonna ding and
what will happen to you and you get on the shore,
you'll be smashed and all of that, and yeah, maybe

(32:22):
you know, there is a time when one wave goes.
But if you are the ocean, then you are all
the waves really in the depths of yourself and the
true inner self, and so that is you know what
the Veda says, that you are totality, you are wholeness,
what the towel says, even when you look deeper into

(32:43):
even Buddhism and Confucuism and Hinduism, and you know, in
all of that, even in Koran, which people you know,
sometimes they feel, okay, maybe it is more practical in
terms of daily and all that, but it has it
is of course very spiritual also, and there is a

(33:05):
verse in it which says God is speaking, and God says,
I am closer to you than your jugglar vein, which
is just to say that that it's all within. It's
all within. So you know, when we say and when
in Christianity it is said the Kingdom of Heaven is

(33:25):
within you, it's the same thing. And so what does
it mean the kingdom of heaven. It means that place
which has no limitations, which has all possibilities, which is
there is no limits, no sense of lacking, where there
is fulfillment, when there is wholeness. And all of this

(33:45):
is pointing to the within, within within, So that is
really what it means to go within on a practical level,
because it's not just some nice experience, as we said,
it just allows you to come out and be dynamic
and be creative and make the best of two of
your life. You know, because many people feel I don't

(34:07):
want for myself. I'm fine, I want to help the world,
I want to create word piece and all of that.
But you can only give what you have. And if
you have stress and strain and go out and try
to give that, well that's what you give. You give fear,
you give, strain, you give in completeness. So it's important

(34:27):
to be maximum in order to give.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Maximum beautifully said beautifully said, Now, when you were a
young doctor and you got a chance to go see
the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, can you explain to people who
he was if they don't know who he was, and
what was the experience of meeting and what was the
extent of your interaction with him? And I'd love to

(34:52):
also dive into physically what you felt when you were
near him. I've heard stories, so I'd love to hear that.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, it's you know, I feel like, when I retrospectively
think about it, that I really met Maryhi when I
practiced transcendental meditation. So when I learned this transcendental meditation,
and when the teachers teach this technique, they say they
are teaching on behalf of Marishi, and Marrishi has created

(35:21):
all the steps and all of that, and you get
to see tapes of him speaking and explaining and all
of that. And so as I closed my eyes and
I dived deep within, I was feeling great gratitude for
the ability to get to that depth of in her
awakening and her experience. And so that is what kind

(35:45):
of propelled me or gave me incentive to actually go
meet Marrigi hopefully. And I first time I met him,
I was, you know, towards the end of my medical training.
He was in Switzerland. There was a conference on vedic
irredic health, so Irveda and you know, alternative health to

(36:10):
create balance and all that, and that was the first
time I saw him. I went to the conference and
I offered him a flower. And there were many people
around and scientists and you know, doctors discussing the different
aspects of health and all that, and I just came
to him and I gave him a flower. It's a way,

(36:31):
you know, a traditional way to greet in a sweet way.
And this was my first time really that I met him.
And at that time, the feeling that I had, which
you're asking me to describe, is that time stopped, as
if time stopped and everything just collapsed in the background,

(36:54):
and all that was there is him looking at me
and myself. Literally I kind of transcended everything. Everything just vanished,
time stopped, and I felt this radiance from him, this
great radiance of light, of peace, of harmony, even I
would say love and care and attention. I felt like

(37:18):
this for this moment for him, as if the whole
world also stopped and I was the only one that
was there that was so powerful and focused his attention
because he could actually be free from other considerations. You know,
there was a confidence, things organized, people going and coming,

(37:39):
and we usually when we are in this situation, your mind,
even though you're not thinking about it, it's just kind
of bubbling in the subconscious and as if this was
not really there at all in him, it was just
just pure being, pure consciousness, pure awareness in the simplest
possible way, contrive not a contrived state, not a forced state,

(38:05):
not an unusual it's just a simple innocent, RESTful wakefulness
that suddenly focused on you. And I felt like this
this very great moment of joy and and I wouldn't
call it even necessarily joy and in a sense of

(38:27):
joyfulness and all of that, but joy of peaceful being,
peaceful fulfillment where you know, as if there is nothing
missing and one is feeling a moment of great fulfillment.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
It sounds like what I've heard as well is that
it becomes almost intoxicating being in that in that I
mean what you just described. Who doesn't want to be
in that? Uh, And it's like just be being in
his vicinity. You would feel that and a lot of
people are drawn to that energy. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, there is that sense exactly of holiness. You know.
We don't want to necessarily use that because people will
start saying, oh, this is like you know, some imagination
or but that's the feeling you have in anocent, simple way.
And I'm very critical, you know. I've been with Nobel
laureates many times, top world leaders. They're all absolutely wonderful.

(39:27):
I don't want to diminish anybody, but just to say
that the quality of experience on a being, on the
level of being was very special with Marriaghi.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
And did you was that the only time you interacted
with Manrishi or was there other times after.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
No, I interacted many times with him, and I spent
nearly twenty years actually working with him. Because what I
did is after I finished my studies and my specialization
and my PhD and MP and all of that.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
I had a good practice in Boston. I was planning
to become a professor in one of those big universities
I was invited to work. I had the credentials and
since I was in contact with him by other distance
in a sense, he invited me to come to India

(40:34):
he was in India, that was nineteen eighty nine, to
meet him there. And at that time I had my
private jet, my plane. It wasn't a jet, it was
a propeller because I'm a pilot. Also I learned to fly.
I had my car. I had bought a house on
Beacon Hill and Boston, just next to the Nasional hospital.

(40:58):
I had a life, and I had friends and any
personal private intimate friendships and all of that. And so
I went just for a day or two, thinking three days, okay,
maybe I can manage a week. I asked my colleagues
to take care of my patients in my absence, and

(41:19):
I went there and I this is where I started
meeting him and discussing things more and more, and I
told him I'm planning to hopefully become a professor. There
is an offer of a professorship at Harvard, which is
I was so proud of it because I thought he
would want one of people who you know, who are

(41:42):
with him, working with him, to have such position and
contribute to the science. Because he was always very interested
in science. He wanted to do research on everything, scientific research.
He believed in the scientific method and the proof by
comparing groups and control groups and all that. That's why
we have more than six hundred scientific research studies that

(42:04):
are published in peer reviewed journals on transcendental meditation. So
it's not just all some nice idea and some nice thing.
It's very scientific, and that's thanks to Marris's encouragement. So
I thought he would think it's great and I would
just do scientific research maybe on TM on meditation. But

(42:24):
he kept delaying me, and I kept pushing, like I
have to go back, and I have my patience and
all of that. So I told him I have to
go back. I have to, you know, to take care
of my profession and all this. And he's told me
something very unusual and what I would consider unexpected. Certainly,
he said, this is too little for you. And I

(42:49):
didn't understand that very much what he meant, and he said,
you should. You should continue to stay with me and
we will work on things. It's okay. You still have
time to go back if you want too later, and
like this, can you arrange? I said, yeah, I can
kind of arrange. So from one week it became one month,

(43:11):
and then from one month to two months to I thought, okay,
one year, I take a vatical, I sent, I sent
all this request to my friends to take care of
my patients. I called my uncle who was living in Connecticut.
I told him to sell the car, and then we
have to sell the plain because at least one year,

(43:33):
it's what he's sitting there. And so this one year
and one you know, months and one year became actually
almost twenty years.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Where you lived in India with the marriage, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, at the beginning a little bit. And then he
moved himself to the west because he used to travel.
He moved to the Netherlands, and then he called me
back there from India, and I was also going. Actually
it was a time when Soviet Block was kind of dismantling,
nineteen eighteen nine, and so he had asked me to

(44:10):
go and give lectures and the Eastern Bloc because they
were close to anything spiritual at that time, you know,
wondering what it is and all that. They were suspicious
in a sense, but they were opening up and the
response was amazing. So I remember crossing the Berlin Wall

(44:30):
when there was only a hole in it and being
worried that will be shot at. But I had some
Germans with me who said, no, no, I know what's
going on. You can count no problem. So you know,
I lived on that. You know, you probably were not born.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
I thank you, sir for that. I appreciate it. I
was born. I was already, I think in eighty nine,
I was in high school already. So I appreciate that.
Thank you so much. So it's fascinating that you basically
were You were basically recruited by the Maharishi to work

(45:08):
with him for the next twenty years leaving, and this
is a very important lesson for people to listen to.
You basically were at the top of your field. When
you're asked to be a professor at Harvard, it's pretty
much as prestigious as you can get in the field
that you were in. It's like, wow, I mean that's

(45:28):
Harvard and all that kind of stuff. You had all
the trappings of the world, of the material world. You
had a car, you had your houses, you had a plane,
for God's sakes, all these things, and you were happy.
You had a beautiful life that you were very happy with.
But when he said that that's too small for you.
When he said that, I understood completely the moment you

(45:49):
said that, I was like, oh, yeah, I get it
because I had similar similar paths in my world with
Hollywood and being a filmmaker and so on, where you're like,
I've been told that too, Like no, no, no, that's
too small for you. You need to do other things,
which doesn't make sense at the moment.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
But I mean for me, it was kind of, oh my,
what is it. You know where I'm going? So I thought, Okay,
I take a month because he was kind and you know,
accommodating that. It's not you don't have to. You can
just be there for a while and see how it goes.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
That's how they trick you. That's how they trick you.
So then you you continued, it's the same here, my
friend's same here. It's it's it's interesting because I think
people get so caught up with what they believe is
going to make them happy, and to a certain extent,
does make them happy. You were comfortable, you had a

(46:45):
beautiful life, You were intellectually challenged, and you were you know, curious,
and it seemed like you were good. But there's always
this other bigger thing that was on your life plan
that you could not see. But he and that's what
a guru, a real guru, actually shows you is your
path and gives you the choice. He didn't force you

(47:07):
to do anything. He gave you the choice. And I'd
love that, you said, one month turned into two months,
two months turned into a year, one year turned into
two and then I'm twenty years later, I'm still here.
So it's fascinating how it just slowly you just kind
of fell into it and gave into it, gave into
Was there ever a moment that You're like, I'm crazy,

(47:27):
this is insane. Why I'm giving up this amazing opportunity
that people would kill for to be teaching at Harvard
and do all these other things? You know, did you
ever really question yourself.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
The experience that I had and the fulfillment that I had,
even compared to the fulfillment that studying and getting gaining
knowledge and expertise and research and publishing and being in
that wonderful academic atmosphere was also of course grand and fulfilling.
And I command and huge respect to all the scientists

(48:02):
and the doctors who actually do that. It's a wonderful thing,
and it's very much needed. What I was saying to
myself is first that was my calling in life. I
was feeling, this is the things I wanted. That's why
when we started the discussion, I said, I was looking

(48:24):
to solve these mysteries and understand life, and so I
wanted to be consequent with myself, to be in tune
with myself and just follow my heart and follow my mind.
And then you know, there was I don't know if

(48:45):
it played a big role, but there was this, as
you said, my credentials, and I felt secure that I
had completed those and that if anything happens at any moment,
I can fall back onto my regular profession. And I
was constantly, you know, not comparing, but being realistic about it.

(49:11):
And the sense is am I growing? Am I developing?
Am I learning? Am I experiencing more? Am I being
more and more true to my calling and my life
and discovering more in helping you know the world and
understanding what can be done on a global level, whereas

(49:34):
you know, there are all these things that are happening
in the world, some very positive research and discovery and
all that, and some quite negative conflicts and problems and
all of that. And so one of the ways I
used to answer my friends or professors in that way

(49:56):
is that, look, you are all great and you're doing
amazing research. We can sacrifice one person to actually look
at the other side. And I'm happy to be that
to be that person because that's my passion. And so
you're sacrificing me. You know, you gave me training, you
prepared me scientifically and all of that. But there is

(50:20):
this option that that beyond the material research where we
do research on one molecule or other molecule and how
it helps in this disease and what we can do
for this problem. You're all doing that, what if there
is something of a different dimension that can also help

(50:41):
Those people.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
And I am willing to be the one who would
investigate that, who would look into that, who would be
actually wants life to make sure. You know, and as
you do research and you experience, you're constantly analyzing and
thinking and getting feedback to yourself, you know, is it

(51:14):
really working? Because if it wasn't working, I would have left.
If it wasn't fulfilling. I would have gone. I could
always you know, at least for the first ten to
fifteen years, I was still feeling that I can come
back anytime. You know. It's like I have enough credentials
to go back and say, look, guys, I learned something,

(51:37):
but I wouldn't go back. Yeah, exactly. But this never
never occurred to me. This never happened because it was
only waves of greater and greater achievement and fulfillment. And
that's what I wanted to actually share with the world
when I wrote the book Consciousnesses. All that is it's

(51:57):
just not my story. I don't talk about my story
in the book, but about my conclusions, you know, my
conclusions about the world, about living, about the big questions.
Do we have freedom or is it all deterministic? How
is it possible that one unbounded ocean, one being can

(52:18):
be many at the same time? You know, how is
it that manifestation happens and why does it happen? Is
materiality or physicality primary? Or consciousness is primary? Is there
some divine entity that creates things in a mysterious way
that we will never understand or that we can actually

(52:40):
understand it? And so having kind of resolved these big
philosophical and existential questions. I share them in a book
called Consciousness Is All There is to make sure at
least I participate in the thought process, and for all

(53:01):
seekers who are looking for what you call the truths,
at least they have an option. And this book, you know,
I believe in it. I believe this is how it is.
But people might say no, I have a different idea.
But at least when you compare ideas, you're open to
thinking and to possibilities, you are closer to reaching the

(53:25):
reality and to reaching the truth.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Doctor Tony, I have to ask you, everything we've been
speaking about is so beautiful. The I can't I can't
tell people. Maybe they can feel it in this conversation.
Your smile, You're smiling always, You seem so happy, you
seem like it's just radiating from you, and I can
and I can literally feel that lovely energy. I'm intoxicated

(53:51):
by being in your presence, even via zoom, sir, So
I just want to kind of you. I talk to
a lot of people. I don't often feel this way
when I'm talking to people, So I do appreciate this
lovely energy that you're bringing to this conversation. One thing
I wanted to ask you is since you've been you've
been around a little bit, you've seen how humanity was

(54:15):
in the sixties, seventies, eighties, and so on. It seems
like there is a huge change happening in humanity's consciousness.
And these conversations thirty years ago don't exist in a
public forum. They exist in a if you're lucky, a hotel,
a hotel, you know, room somewhere now it's a room,

(54:38):
but you know, like a conference room or something like that.
You know, we're only a few seekers who will really
seek out this information, where now there's millions, if not billions,
of people around the world looking for this information. But
the world seems to be getting faster, and it seems
to be changing at such a rapid pace that people

(54:59):
are having problem acclimating, acclimating to that surface water that
we're all kind of rushing towards. And it seems like
there's a lot of chaos, even more so than I've
ever seen in my lifetime, a lot of uncertainty, a
lot of chaos, a lot of old systems being broken down,
old ideas being broken down, old institutions being broken down,

(55:22):
kind of making way for the new. But with that
breaking down process, it's not fun. I'd love to hear
your thoughts on where you believe humans, humanity's consciousness is
going and how we can kind of kind of surf
the waves that are very big right now and very
treacherous in many different places in the world right now.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
A wonderful, you know explanation. There are many points about
what is the situation, how did it evolve, why is
it like this, and how can we what can we
do about it? I start with the last part, which
is what can we do about it? When we are
in a storm. And when you're in a storm, what
you want is to anchor your boat, and you throw

(56:08):
the anchor and put it in a place where it
is secured, and then you can get some shakiness, but
at least you are reassured that you are really anchored
and you're not going to lose the boat and lose
life as a whole. And the anchor is within ourselves.

(56:28):
The anchor is absolutely within ourselves, be it as individuals
who need to face these situations from a platform of
as much strength and stability as possible. And that is
why it's important to transcend. That's why I teach transcendental
meditation and our organization. And I'm not just saying that

(56:50):
because we teach this technique. It's because of my life
experience and the research that has shown that when you
are clearer, when you are well rested within, then you
are able to make more sense out of what is happening,
and even if what is happening is tumultuous, you are
able to maintain as much as possible your clarity, your

(57:14):
ability to deal with it, your ability to overcome it,
and your equanimity. In general, the sense of being stable
within is always available to you because you are anchored
within yourself. This is on the individual level. On the
social level, we have shown that when people individuals practice

(57:35):
this program together, which means they anchor themselves within themselves,
they transcend, and if they are large enough groups of
people that do it, then there is a transformation even
in society. There are one hundred and sixteen scientific research
studies on this effect, which we call the Marishi effect
in honor of Marishi who predicted it, which shows that

(57:59):
when a small proportion of people practice transcendental meditation and
a community, there is reduction in crime and reduction in conflict.
What happened is, as the advanced techniques of meditation were taught,
we found a very very scientific formula which is the
square root of one percent of the population. And when

(58:20):
you do that, we have experience in the past years,
like maybe forty years or so, and we have looked
at the statistics and we have found an exact correlation.
When the numbers have reached a critical size of those
who practice this program, for example in the United States,

(58:41):
but also it was done in other places. There has
been a clear reduction in accidents of the road, conflicts, crime,
hospital admissions, even infant mortality, drug problems, etc. And these
are what they look like independent parameters or factors, but

(59:05):
they all were improved in the right direction because there
was a settling effect from this group practicing the program.
So that is on the level of the solution for
the individual and also as a group for society. So
if I smiling and thank you for your comment, it's

(59:29):
because I'm full of hope that we have the knowledge
that can actually make a difference. Now, how to assess
the situation as it is? You started with a very
good comment, which is indeed the situation in terms of meditation,
in terms of yoga, in terms of spirituality, is improving

(59:53):
and increasing in the world, and there is no question
about that. I can't tell you how much I was
kind of looked at as bizarre when I was kind
of leaving, you know, my my profession and going for
researching something about the mind and about consciousness, about human development,

(01:00:16):
about you know, full potential and all of that spiritual
side of our reality. Spiritual not meaning religious, It means
just non material, non physical, that there is an aspect
of us which is non physical, non material, and people
are recognizing this now. The mind meditation is common word.

(01:00:36):
Everybody wants to do some kind of meditation.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
What happened is with time we have created a lot
of these groups, but then during COVID, for example, they
were dismantled. In my mind, in my observation, consciousness in
the world, there is no question is increasing. There is
a greater sense of human rights, There is you know,

(01:01:11):
relations between people, and when you look at the statistics overall,
actually it shows that the world is going in a
very nice, very good direction. Be it in terms of
you know, accidents and mortality and well being, poverty levels,
et cetera. There are many statistics that show actually that

(01:01:31):
the world is going in a very good direction. So
why do we have all these chaos that happening right now?
And we can explain it that. You know, when consciousness rises,
it's like the light rising in a room. You have
a room, and then you increase the light, and when

(01:01:52):
you increase the light, you have shadows that start moving.
You know, as the light increases the shadows, and when
you see the shadows moving, you are kind of your
attention goes to the shadows. And if you don't see
the light, but you are looking at the shadows, you
feel that it's catastrophic or something's happening, or it can

(01:02:13):
stare scare you, depending how you interpret it. So there
is no question that there is some kind of a
transition period that is happening, and certain things have been shaken.
But I am full of optimism in that sense. And
we are actually indeed now trying to create large groups

(01:02:34):
of people who practice transcendental meditation and its advanced techniques together,
and we have had a wonderful response in India where
many spiritual leaders. Have you embraced marriage is teaching from
the same tradition, and they are actually now creating these
large groups together with us where we are training their

(01:02:56):
disciples or their students in the schools or you know,
we are in armies, we are everywhere, and that is
going to I'm sure lead to something really wonderful, something
really great in the world. So I'm full of hope
and I see the future as really bright because the

(01:03:18):
knowledge is there, and when there is something that works,
ultimately people will adopt it. And we know this works,
and so we're confident it will be adopted and there
will be a transformation from the most profound level of reality,
which is not material, which is not physical, which is

(01:03:40):
actually consciousness. So the ocean of being is consciousness. This
ocean appears as materiality and physicality. And I explained and
the book consciousness is all that is. I explain how
this can be possible and what we can do about it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Well, actually have to ask you though, and I'm going
to play devil's advocate here. Pun intended that if someone's watching,
if someone's watching this conversation for the first time, and
then everyone and they're saying, well, this is great, doctor
nat Or. This is fantastic, it sounds wonderful, but I've
got to pay my rent.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
My church is my church has done this to me.
My healthcare has done this to me. I can't trust
the media. Uh do you see what the politicians are
doing in my country? All these all these kind of
real world material, you know, problems. What would you say
to that person who's listening, which I'm sure if they're
listening and they stayed to this point, they're looking for answers.

(01:04:38):
They're truly looking for answers, but they're caught in the
the illusion so deeply, and it's not an illusion, it's reality,
but it's the perspective. They're focusing on the shadows and
not on the light. What advice would you have for them?

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Again, analogies help to explain so, but analygies have that limitations,
of course. But the best analogy in this case is
somebody who comes to you and he tells you, look
at my crop, look at my trees. The fruits are
going away, the leaves are becoming yellow. It is weak,

(01:05:15):
the fruits are not as healthy. And what can I do?
What can I do about it? If you're a good farmer.
You just at least ask them one question. One question,
are you watering the roots of the tree or just
looking at the surface value and seeing how the fruits

(01:05:36):
are there, And you try to wipe the fruit, to
remove the dust from it, or to spray it, or
to do something to it, And you have forgotten to
put water on that which is hidden under the ground.
So you have forgotten that the tree takes its nutrients
and its strengths from the roots. So happened. The roots

(01:06:01):
are hidden, But it's not because they are hidden that
they have no value. To the contrary, all the value
of nourishing your tree is from watering the root. So
in the same way you see things on the outside happening,

(01:06:21):
you see that you have problems that you have to solve,
and you are not going back onto yourself, which is
the source of your intelligence, the source of your creativity,
the source of your ability to deal with things better.
And that is why you're going to be limited in
your perception to make a long story and complicated, you know,

(01:06:44):
potentially story more simple. Think of the day when you
have slept well and you wake up fresh. The big
problems they seem manageable, even the big problems. If you
have not slept well and you wake up stressed and
strained and your mind is bubbling, even the smallest problem

(01:07:09):
can appear like a mountain. And so reality on the
outside is not independent from our inner reality and how
we perceive it. So we perceive something, and that thing
is an object, but the knowledge that we have is

(01:07:29):
a relax is a combination of the object, of course,
but also how we see it, how we experience it,
how we interpret it, how we deal with it. How
much intelligence and creativity we have today to pay my
rent to find solutions, to take care of things, to

(01:07:52):
find ways to do it. On an individual level and
on a social level. We offer a program, you know,
and that's why I take this opportunity to be with
you and to say to all the viewers and listeners
and all those who have contacts and friends, we have
a solution. We have a solution. It's not costly. It's

(01:08:17):
actually very very inexpensive compared to even one fighter plane,
or you know, less than a fighter plane, much less.
That can make a difference. Having tried all the other solutions,
you know, you know, then you if you keep doing
the same thing over and over again, hoping that suddenly

(01:08:40):
the thing will happen in a different way. I think
that's you know what some people have said, insane. Yeah, insane,
And I don't want to use big words here, but
let's try something new. Let's try a paradigm that works,
that explain things, that has a logic within it, that

(01:09:03):
offers a new perspective, and we can make a difference
and change the world. So in terms of what do
we do and this situation transcend as an individual, go
back to yourself, settle within yourself. As a society, let's
create a large group that can practice this program and

(01:09:24):
see the effects.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
It sounds like I always tell people, like during the
Great Depression, there were people who built some of the
greatest companies in the world. There's people that weren't even
affected by the Great Depression, not only rich people, but
you know, working class people who were not affected. In
every great disaster, there are always people who it doesn't

(01:09:49):
seem to affect them in the same way as it
affects everybody else. So there is hope, there is hope
that we can do that correct.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
Absolutely absolutely. I would say, actually that is technology. There
is a science. It has been proved. It has been tried.
It just needs to be applied.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
And this is transcendental meditation.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
As what transcendent.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
And consciousness based education, consciousness based thinking. You know, we
have a university which we are not trying to revive
and to promote marriage, international university where we can teach
people and we're preparing programs to face the mental health
also crisis that is coming that is needed where you know,

(01:10:44):
if we just choose medicines and drugs and have side
effects and then you know, limit the potential for people.
But we have technologies of mind, technology of consciousness that
can do it, that can help people get out of
their problems out of a sense of isolation or loneliness
and depression and anxiety, and all of this has been

(01:11:06):
researched again and again has been researched under different circumstances
in different settings, be it in hospitals. For example, we
have worked with David Lynch and David Lynch Foundation where
we have shown that you know, doctors who are under
stress and anxiety and insomnia and even suicide and now

(01:11:28):
more than ninety hospitals in the United States, this program
is offered and the research, again, research comparing controls, etc.
Has shown the effectiveness of reducing the problems and enhancing
the life quality of all these great heroes you know,

(01:11:48):
medical profession doctors, nurses, staff of hospitals.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I'm going to ask you a
few questions. I ask all of my guests, what is
your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Living a fulfilled life is a life that allows you
to grow in consciousness, grow in awareness. It's a fulfilled
life is that you feel you are more, you are
becoming more, and this is what is very important. To
be more rather than to have more, and people mix
these things up. You can be more by having more also,

(01:12:24):
but in a limited way. But if you think you
are your possessions and all of that, you will find
it's not working. So fulfilled life, a well lived life,
and a life where you feel you are growing in
your consciousness. And growing in your consciousness will naturally make
you feel embracing bigger and bigger aspects of your life,

(01:12:46):
not just yourself as an individual, maybe your family, your nation,
your world, your environment. When you feel you're embracing more
and more, and you are doing something about it, then
you are living a fulfilled life.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Beautiful answer. If you have a chance to go back
in time and speak to little Tony, what advice would
you give him?

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
Go ahead and do exactly the same things you've done.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Don't change a thing. How do you define God or source?

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
God is infinite awareness, infinite consciousness. God cannot be unconscious obviously,
and consciousness is on a range you you know. In
my book consciousness is all there is, I explain that
consciousness goes all the way to the atoms and the
molecules and the cells. It's not just a simple thing

(01:13:40):
that is for humans. It's there in the animals, it's
there in the trees on different different levels, different different levels.
So if you can imagine a consciousness that is beyond
any limitation, beyond any limiting factor, that has no smallness,

(01:14:03):
only big, only perfect, then that is the consciousness of God. Now,
whether this reality is personal aspect or impersonal again, I
explained in the book that it can be both, and
then you can say when it is a personal its

(01:14:23):
personal aspect is what we call God.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
If you what is love?

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Lass the power of connecting whatever connects something to another
is love, you know. Again, in my book, I explained
that when a negative particle meets with a positive particle
and they attract each other, that's a minimal, tiny aspect
of love. Connecting, connecting the subject to the object. We

(01:14:52):
see ourselves as subjects, and whether we like it or not,
we see the entire universe and everything in it as
our object of perception. Whatever connects us more to what
we see is different degrees of love. When you connected

(01:15:14):
so strongly with the other that you see them as yourself,
then this is supreme love. Supreme love is the love
of unity, where you see the other as yourself. When
you see life as your own life. When you see
yourself as the ocean, and you see every wave as

(01:15:37):
part of you because you are the ocean and embrace
all the waves as part of yourself, then you have
supreme love.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Beautiful answer. If you could ask God or Source one question,
what would it be?

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
Let thy will be done.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Enough? And finally, what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
The ultimate purpose of life is the expansion of consciousness.
Until we find that we are the ocean of being.
Then we are liberated from smallness and we see everything
is ourself. Therefore there is no sense of limitation, no
sense of smallness, only bigger and bigger and bigger, until

(01:16:23):
we are the whole universe. I am totality, I am fullness,
I am wholeness, and there you have maximum fulfillment. This
is the beauty of it. The purpose of life is
in that sense, the expansion of happiness, because the more
you grow, the more you expand, the less you are limited,

(01:16:45):
and that's what gives happiness. So the purpose of life
is just expansion of happiness, expansion of happiness until one
reaches bliss consciousness, and that bliss consciousness is reach when
you don't feel you're lacking anything, you don't need anything,
you don't want anything, you're not afraid of anything. When
can you reach that? When you are everything? When you

(01:17:08):
are everything, there is no other, and there is no other,
There is no fear, and there is oneness. There is
infinite love, infinite wellness, and the sense of peace and harmony,
and that is great fulfillment. So that's the beauty. The
purpose of life is expansion of happiness, is fulfillment and

(01:17:29):
the growth of consciousness.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
Touchen, where can people find out more about you? And
the amazing work you're doing in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
I have a website called doctor Tony Nader dot com.
We have a program that teach us transcendental meditation. It's
TM dot org. I invite you to read my book
Consciousness Is All There is. It's sold on all the platforms.
And look forward to seeing you know this this podcast

(01:18:02):
that we have together, and I am of course on
YouTube and I have many, you know, discussions that have happened,
and it's a joy to share knowledge with everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
And do you have any party messages for the audience.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
Life is bliss and its purpose is the expansion of happiness.
Be well anchored within yourself, be true to yourself, expand
your awareness and learn transcendental meditation as simple as that,
and experience that you are the ocean and don't feel limited.

(01:18:38):
You can absolutely fulfill your dream and become even more
than what you have ever thought you can be that
you later.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Your optimism and hope is intoxicating, my friend, So I
am so I'm so happy that you were on the show,
and I hope everybody watching this for years to come
will feel this kind of hope and love that you've
been putting out in this conversation. And in the work
that you do on a daily basis, my friend, So
thank you so much for everything you're doing to awaken

(01:19:10):
the planet. I truly truly appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
Thank you, Thank you, Alex. Wonderful to be with you.
Congratulations on what you are doing to spread hope and
happiness everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:19:22):
I like to thank doctor Natter so much for coming
on the show and sharing his knowledge and wisdom with
all of us. If you want to get links to
anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to
the show notes at next levelsoul dot com Forward Slash
five seven eight. And if you like this content and
want to go deeper down the spiritual rabbit hole, just
head over to Next levelsoul dot tv and we have movies, series,

(01:19:45):
original shows, live events, and of course all of Next
level Soul completely add free again. Just head over to
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been listening to these episodes and want to watch these

(01:20:06):
amazing conversations, head over to our YouTube channel at next
levelsoul dot com Forward Slash YouTube. Thank you so much
for listening, and as I always say, trust a journey
it's there to teach you. I'll see you next time.