NLS 613: Doctor Discovers ANCIENT TECHNIQUE That GUIDES You From The OTHER SIDE! with Dr. Bonnie Buckner

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
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(00:23):
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today's episode. Disclaimer. The views and opinions expressed in this

(01:26):
podcast are those of the guests and do not necessarily
reflect the views or positions of this show, its host,
or any of the companies they represent. Now, today we
welcome doctor Bonnie Buckner and we sit down to have
a deep conversation about an ancient technique to help you
find your purpose. What she has discovered in her research

(01:49):
is pretty remarkable and it's something that we all do
every day, and we learn how to connect to that
guidance in this conversation. Let's dieve. I like to welcome
to the show, doctor Bonnie Buckner. Hey you doing, Bonny.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I'm great, Thank you so much for having me here.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm
really looking forward to this conversation because you speak about dreams,
but you don't speak about dreams like I've had other
people on the show to speak about dreams, which is
dream interpretation and all this. You know, these kind of things,
but you look at it as you have a very
specific kind of dream teachings that you do, and you

(02:27):
use dreams to help people evolve, to help people awaken,
to help people guide them through life. That is something
I haven't heard before. So before we go down this
deep rabbit hole, Yeah, what started you interested in this space?
Like at when you were a kid, did you go
I want to be a dream doctor?

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Kind of? Actually kind of. I didn't think about it
as something that I want to be. It was more
when I was three, I had had I'd been having
just terrible nightmares and it was really disturbing to me.
And there was a moment where I was sitting out
on our front steps just sort of thinking about this

(03:07):
one morning, and in my mind I was thinking, I
just if this is what this is, this being like
our life? How can I just keep dreaming these nightmares
every night? So in my mind I went through, you
know as kids do, like maybe I'll just never go
to sleep again. You know what's the Guinness Book of
World records for never sleeping exactly exactly? And then really

(03:32):
it was just this sort of little flash, Oh, this
is what I'm here to do. Is I'm supposed to
understand how to fix my own nightmares and then teach
that to other people.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
How old were you three? Stop it? Yeah? Wow, Really
that's a pretty deep insight at three.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
I think more young people know things like that. Oh yeah,
then we give them credit for it.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Sure, and they forget it as they get older because
all the programming and all the stuff comes into them.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
They do. And that's a great point. So I had
a family of dreamers. I didn't know that, but as
I started to talk to them, you know, I'm really
interested in dreaming. I'm really going to work with dreams someday,
not that I knew what any of that looked like
or meant. My dad and my grandmother in particular, would

(04:21):
share dreams that they had and talk to me about it.
My grandmother had premonitory dreams. There's a very big story
in our family about her saving my uncle Charles's life
because of a dream. And they started to share these
stories with me, and it not only normalized that, it
supported me in exploring that, and that is so critical.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Really well there, If you can have a support system,
it makes life a little easier as you're going down
these kind of roads, which is not being a dream
expert or going down this world as you are. It's
not a standard process.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
No it's not. And I didn't know what that looked like.
And I didn't do it for a really long time,
because what does that look like?

Speaker 1 (05:03):
How do how do I support myself as a I'm
saying dream doctor. I know you don't call yourself that,
but like a dream doctor.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah. So you know one of the things that my
father had had suggested to me. He said, well, so
your passion is dreams, but sometimes we can like put
them in a different vehicle, Like what are the other
things you're interested in? And I said, well, psychology, writing, politics, film.
In my mind, all of those things are about us,

(05:32):
understanding us, and we're putting it out in terms of
you know, organization, or putting it out in terms of
the stories we tell ourselves. So this was right about
the time where I was wondering, like, I'm going to college,
what am I going to major in? And so I
majored in film. I worked in film and did some
producing of documentaries for a while, and then I am

(05:57):
in twenty I guess I can't remember the time. I
guess two thousand and four America was thinking of going
to Iraq and starting that war.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
That was earlier when two thousand and one happened, and
then think by two thousand and two, two thousand and
three were already they were talking about to do that.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
So at that time a friend of mine who worked
at a studio doing research, he said, you know, I
think we can put this understanding of people with my
understanding of research, and we can do something to sort of,
you know, shift that away from us going to war.
And so we started a media political research company worked

(06:40):
with very high level campaigns, the John Kerry for President
campaign being one of them. And it was at that
time that I really began to hear inside myself. Yeah,
but dreaming and now's the time. And it was one
of those things that a series of dreams then led
me to my dream teacher, and that changed the direction

(07:04):
of my life.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
How doest ones find a dream teacher?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, so I started to I had a very important
seminal dream where my fatherhood passed away by that time,
literally handed me off in this very ethereal place to
a woman that I didn't know, and I was so
intrigued by her, and I left my father to get

(07:28):
closer and closer to her and this music she was playing.
And I woke up and I just knew that, you
know this woman, everything is going to change in my life.
And so I just started to talk to more people
about dreams. And I was meeting someone as a film,
like a meet and greet kind of thing, and I

(07:49):
had had a terrible nightmare that night, and I sat down.
I said, I'm a little discombobulated today and I'm sorry,
but I had a terrible nightmare. And she said, well,
I know a little bit about dreams. Tell it to me.
And I was thinking, yeah, everybody knows a little bit
about dreams. But I told it to her and she
spoke back to me in a sound I could hear,
and she said, you should meet my teacher. So that's how,

(08:12):
and that they came really right after each other, so
we have to be open to synchronouses. That. Yeah, really,
and I call it walking through waking life with dreamers ears.
And so I met her teacher. It was she became
my teacher, doctor Catherine Schamberg. I studied with her for
ten years and then she said to me, you need

(08:34):
to get a PhD in psychology and really kind of
marry the two. And that's when I bring in you know,
cognitive and neuropsychology and how I talk about dreams.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
That's beautiful. So you talk about the secret mind. What
is the secret mind? How is that different from the
waking consciousness.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Let's go back to something you said earlier about kids
kind of knowing at least their attractions, their interests, what
they like, and then getting covered over. So there's a
sort of inner true self. I call it the dreaming self.
And then there's all the outside world that we live in.

(09:12):
And we often know things that we want to pursue, interests, passions,
things like this, And somewhere along the way someone says,
that's stupid. You can't make money doing that. That's not
our family. We're not creative people. We're accountants or whatever
people tell us, right, like.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
A dream doctor, a filmmaker, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
And so things get layered on and that secret mind
is always there, but it's only secret because we're not
paying attention to it. We're paying attention to these roads
that other people have carved out for us, and not
the road that our inside wants us to pursue. So
when we start to plug into that secret mind, not

(09:57):
only is it about finding that big, you know, capital
p purpose thing which is really just exercising who we
really are. It's also about those little things you talked
at the beginning about how I talk about solving problems.
For me, dreams are a practical tool that we can
use because if we slow down that big arc and

(10:20):
look at it as just a day.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
In a day, we're so busy, we're checking off boxes,
we're driving places, we get lost. I got lost coming
here today, like all these life things happen, and inside
we have a lot of thoughts about that, a lot
of reflections responses to it. The different stimulus that we
encounter gives us ideas. We have intuitions, but we don't

(10:56):
check in to that. We don't pay attention to it
that comes out in are dreaming. If we know how
to just speak a language of images, it's a very
clear language. But we're so verbally attuned that that little
gap is what makes people often dismiss dreams as not

(11:19):
having anything to say.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Right. It's just like, oh, it's just the brain.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
The brain, Yeah that was weird. So it doesn't have
anything to say to me.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
So I'm going to go down the spiritual side a
little bit. Yea with dreams, because it's it's something that
I find really interesting. When you're talking about pictures, it's
a language of pictures. To my understanding, being a psychic
medium's exactly the same thing. They sometimes they hear auditory,
but a lot of times it's images that will come

(11:45):
in and it's up to the medium or the psychic
to interpret those. So that's why when you see a
psychic reading, it'll be like, uh, there's a rose. Does
a rose mean anything to you?

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Right right?

Speaker 1 (11:56):
You know, and just oh my mom used to sell roses, okay, okay,
and that kind of thing, and they're just trying to
interpret that length. So it sounds like spirit in many
ways is language is images, and dreams is the way
that a lot of the other side kind of talks
to us. That's the way I always looked at it myself.
When I have a dream, I'm like, Okay, what is

(12:16):
spirit trying to tell me? What is it trying to
warn me about? What is it trying to tell me
I have to work on? What is it guiding me on?
And I've had a few dreams. You don't remember them often,
I'm sure you can help with that. I can't know,
but generally speak most people don't remember, but I do
have a few that I remember, and one really specific
one was I was still living in LA and I

(12:38):
was in the space of do I keep going with
next level soul or don't I go with next level soul?
And I had a dream and the dream was I
was at the top of one of the hills or
mountains in LA, and I could see all of La
like just as a you know, that beautiful shot that
we all know. There's all the shiny lights. It was night,
and then this jumbo jet plane flies over me. But

(13:01):
it's very not proportional. It's like it's a it's basically
Godzilla's plane. It's like this giant plane it makes you turn,
crashes into the city and you know, the buildings look
like little legos, and it's coming hurling towards me, but
it doesn't hurt me and it doesn't like get to me.

(13:21):
But that's the And I was like, what the hell
does that? And I was about to get on a
plane three days later, so I'm like, it's and it's
never from what I understand, and tell me if I'm
wrong or for your experience. It's never exactly what it's
it's never on the nose, So it's you know, a
cigar is sometimes just a cigar, but sometimes it's something else,

(13:42):
as Freud would say. So from my understanding, dreams are
usually not on the nose, meaning like if it's a
plane coming towards you or crashing, it's not about it
you're going to get into a plane crash, It's about
something else that they're trying to tell you. So I
actually asked my spirit, my spirit guide or Connie on Earth,
I have to preface that, what does that mean? She's like, well,

(14:05):
it means that you got to hurry up and finish
and get back, get back on the train with next
level soul and if not, it's going to be a
fairly disastrous thing for you if you don't do it.
I'm like, uh, okay, that's that's her interpretation of it. Sure,
So everything I say that any of this makes sense,
is it ring true to you? What's your experience?

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Absolutely? But the most important thing is it ring true
to you? So a cigar is not always a cigar,
but also a cigar to you is not a cigar
to me. We all have our own language of images. Yeah,
so life is intensely subjective. We are in a very

(14:47):
very unique vehicle called our body, our physical body, and
we discount that enormously, especially in the modern age, because
we separate mind body. But that very different body means
that I'm going to have very different experiences than anybody else,
and You're gonna have different experiences. And then add that

(15:07):
to where we grew up, where we were raised, like
life becomes our universe spinning within ourselves, let's say, and
we're also connected. So one of the things that's really
important is to understand that images are universal language. You know,
that's we do know that we use emojis all the

(15:31):
time these days, right, Yeah, that's a really important point
because images are universal. We can see something and we
can talk about that image, whether it's you know, you
speak Russian, I speak.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Smile is a smile no matter where you can.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, you know exactly. But when we get into dreams,
like what is that smile doing? Where is that emoji
in my you know, story of the dream. That's where
my subjectivity comes in. That's how I start to understand
what I'm being told from me to me. Love Bonnie

(16:08):
is like dreams are a letter to the self really.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Now, but so from your from your perspective, how much
of the spiritual is involved in this? Like how much
do you believe that? Like I've had Grandma visit me
in my dreams now and those kind of things, and
sometimes it's just very warm kind of like it's going
to be okay kind of thing. And I haven't thought
about her, said, seeing a picture of her or anything

(16:33):
for years, let's say, and then she just shows up,
you know. So I believe that I personally believe that
it is a way for the other side to connect
with us, guide us in many ways. And it also
could be our higher selves connecting with us, like you said,
a letter from you to you. Yeah, so would you
agree or how what's your point of view on the
spiritual side of all of this?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah? Absolutely. And the other thing I want to say is,
you know, we're let's expect and our idea of spiritual
because we tend to chop things into little boxes in
our modern time. We tend to say, you know, there's
mind and then there's body. Body gets kicked to the curb.
Usually everybody thinks they're just a brain. We're a system.

(17:17):
We tend to separate out material spiritual. We put a
lot more value on spiritual, but we're in a material body,
and if we think of that as one thing, then
we start to heal ourselves because we're all suffering those divisions.
We understand our world because of duality. There's hot, but

(17:40):
we only know it's hot because we have cold, right,
So we understand things from duality. But at some point
we're meant to transcend that duality and see that those
two sides of something is one coin. You see what
I'm saying. Well, back to your question about premonitory dreams

(18:03):
or visitation dreams versus dream dreams, let's call them. There
is a difference, and it's usually a felt difference.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
You know.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
I've had loved ones, particularly my father, visit me in dreams,
and those visitation dreams just feel different. Their time moves differently.
I know it, and usually I ask him, what are
you doing here? You're dead, and it kind of establishes things.
But I also have a lot of dreams where Dad

(18:35):
is in my dream, but it's just Dad as a
guy I understood. And so one of the things that
you can do to sort of first of all, distinguish
which kind of dream we're talking about. And then secondly,
for all those people that we know who show up
in a dream, you can ask the question, you know,

(18:55):
Alex is the kind of guy who, or my dad
is the kind of guy who and finish wish that
sentence is a reflection of something in me. Every aspect
of a dream is an aspect of the dreamer for
those everyday, regular dreams. So my dad was a very
courageous kind of guy. That's something in me that's saying, Okay,

(19:16):
bring forward that potential in you to be very courageous,
because it's in you, let's bring it forward.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
And and that's where you see dreams kind of helping
you in that way to kind of bring those things out.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Absolutely, we hide so many aspects of ourselves. Oh god, yeah,
and we don't even know it. You know.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's the programming. It's the programming. It's the trauma. It's
the society. It's all the expectations, your parents, your friends,
your country, your religion, all of these things are dumped
on you. And it's so true. Like if you look
at a child, they are so free, yeah, and so fun.
And as they get a little older and older, they

(19:53):
start to disconnect from spirit in any ways, because when
you're young, you're very close to source because you just
came in.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, you're fresh.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
And then at the end, when you're about to go,
you also are connected to source because you're going back
towards And so people in hospice and things like that
absolutely start feeling that as well. We'll be right back
after a word from our sponsor, and now back to
the show. But as a child, you start getting older.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
And then we get busy, Alice.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
We get busy, We get caught up in the simulation.
We get caught up in this world, this three dimensional world,
and then all the other stuff that happens to us,
and all the programming and all this stuff, to the
point we would forget how to be a child, We
forget how to connect. We forget to look inward for
guidance exactly, and we start looking outward for guidance. And
that's that's a recipe for disaster. It is.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
And that's why I say, you know, capital p purpose
is really simple. A lot of people come to me
and they're like, what is my purpose? Am I supposed
to be a writer? I supposed to be you know,
we're just supposed to live our true self and that
is so it's the game changer because if you think
about it, let's go deep just a little bit here,

(21:14):
I have a true self that wants to express itself.
If I start hiding that true self, now there's a
little disconnect in me, which means there's a little conflict
in me. Maybe I start feeling a little resentful about life,
or a little bit negative or a little bit cynical
that I'm not able to be who I really want
to be in life. These little conflicts, they're like static

(21:39):
on my radio, and it has an effect on every
single other person that I'm in contact with. I start
to close things off. Maybe I don't love as big,
Maybe I hold back hugging, Maybe I, you know, get triggered,
any of these kinds of things, and so roll it

(21:59):
all back. If I just deal with my own inner conflicts,
that begins to change how many people am I touching
in my life?

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Interesting, it's so very true that we are always looking
for exterior outside of ourselves because that's what we're trained
to do. Yeah, knowledge books, people, organizations, they're the ones
that are going to give this answer. It's more of
the Eastern philosophies that look inward. And I think more
people are starting to understand that with meditation being so

(22:33):
popular around the world now and doing things that are
inward and quiet, because as you know, we had a
lovely conversation about AI before we started, which we will
not get into in this copic. But the world is
becoming so busy, so crazy, and so many things are
coming at us that people are overwhelming. They can't handle it.

(22:54):
And now they're starting to look for answers elsewhere, look inward,
get training in. We're finding books like yours, finding shows
like me or your work or my work, and they're
starting to look inward for the answers which is the
true answer, not the exterior stuff that it's just someone
else's opinion, idea and idea exactly, they could guide you

(23:16):
into the internal. So your work is a way to
guide people back into themselves inside in the dream state.
In their dream state is the lane you're in. And
that is so beautiful that you're doing that.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Well, you know what's so beautiful is all of us
have our own it's our gift. We have been given
the ability to dream. Every single person. It doesn't take
an authority or an expert or anybody else. Everybody dreams.
Even our dogs dream. Everybody dreams dreams too. Absolutely, Actually

(23:50):
they are in terms of dream research, they're the champion dreamers.
They dream more hours a day than any other animals.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Absolutely, because they're sleeping a lot of time.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
I know. So it's our innate birthright of healing. We
all have it. It's it's there for us. It's every night.
All we have to do is just start to pay
attention to it.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
So, Bonnie, let me ask you. So we're talking about
dreams on a very esoteric kind of broad spectrum, but
how can we actually use dreams to help guide us?
Because that's an aspect of dreams I've never really thought about.
I've thought about it as as a passive viewer, like
the other side or spirit or even my internal subconscious

(24:38):
is trying to tell me something, a higher self, whatever
you want to call it, in dreams, and it's a
very passive way, but you talk about it more as
a non passive way, as a more like you know,
I'm going to how do I actually use dreams to
guide me in a big problem or solve a complex problem,
or answer a question like what is my purpose? Am
I supposed to be a writer? Am I supposed to

(24:58):
be a drag queen? What is it?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah? Exactly. So there's a couple of different ways of
looking at the practical aspect of dreams. You asked a
question earlier about remembering dreams. Start there, So get a
journal and write down whatever comes up when you wake up,
And right there, I could just that is healing. And

(25:23):
here's how. I can't tell you the number of times
people come to me to do work with me and
they're like, yeah, I didn't really have a dream. And
then I start asking them a few questions of what
they woke up with, and they have this really long dream,
like multiple paragraphs, and I'm like, why didn't you give
me that dream? And they say, well, it didn't make
sense to me, so I didn't want to write it down.

(25:44):
It was too weird. I was embarrassed. I thought it
might mean something too scary to look at. We start
our self criticisms before we even get out of bed,
and that right there, when we truly understand that and
we shift it and we decide to open up to
what's coming through, that's the first step of healing something.

(26:07):
And that's major. Just to stop blocking the messages that
are coming to you, stop blocking the reflections that are
available to you, and just open out to it. And
that's what makes children so free, because they have fun,
they're curious, they're open. They see some weird thing and
they pick it up and oh, it's a slug, you know,
Whereas we're like, that's weird, don't touch it, maybe it's poisonous,

(26:32):
they're exactly, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
That's fascinating. So then let me ask you what is
the purpose. Well, let me go back when we're dreaming
and using it to heal ourselves trauma. How does that work?
How can we use dreams to heal our trauma or
do shadow work? In many ways dreaming using dream work,

(26:56):
dreams to do the shadow work of inner reflection and
looking ourselves in the mirror and all of that would
is probably arguably one of the toughest things people have
to do is to be truthful with themselves.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
That's what I'm talking about. But the thing that's so
for me it's a blessing with dreams is it's playful.
Dreams are playful. That jumbo jet dream. That's interesting, it's fascinating. Yeah,
that's so different than if someone had like hit you
over the head and said, Alex, you gotta go do this,
like you're going to reject it or you're going to say, Okay,

(27:30):
I'll do it, But either way, it's not your own
sort of playful engagement with that. So there's a few
different things to answer your question. You talked about the mirror,
holding up the mirror, and you also talked about with
that jumbo jet dream, it's never straight on. So right now,
if we wanted to know how our hair looks in
the back of our head, we have to use a mirror.

(27:51):
We cannot see our back without a mirror and a
system of mirrors, and it's never full. I can put
the mirror in front of me going to see it,
you got to put it on an angle one, yeah, exactly.
It's a system of angles or in dream time facets.
So every aspect of a dream is an aspect of

(28:13):
the dreamer. That jumbo jet Alex, the city Alex, the
U turn, the movement of that U turn Alex, the
potential crash Alex, all of that, you know, and that
jumbo jet, the Godzilla sized jet speaks to how much
energy you have to take something from one place to another.

(28:36):
That's what jets do. And it's jumbo jumbo jumbo. And
look what you've created for yourself. So and it's a
higher level of thinking. It's high above, you know, planes
fly above the clouds. So when we start to look
at every aspect of that dream is an aspect of me.
So I'm the jet with all that potential. If I'm

(28:59):
not sending it straight on and I'm U turning, then
I'm going to crash. Then playfully, I get it. Now,
I can change, I can shift my direction, et cetera.
When we think about you know, I talk about seven
different kinds of dreams. So one of the kinds of

(29:20):
dreams is a clear dream, and a clear dream has
both potential and block. That's this dream that you're talking
to me about. And within those kinds of clear dreams,
they tell us dreams are operating in our present tents.
They're really part of our present tents experiencing. So if
I look at that kind of dream, I see, here's

(29:42):
my potential, here's the block. But the dream is also
showing me how to get over that block, which is
turn the plane around and goes straight, don't make a
U turn. You see, keep it up in the air
and keep it going. As an example, so when we
start to look at these kinds of things, it's not
just the you know, looking at the good, bad and

(30:04):
the ugly in there, but it's also bringing to the
four what I call latent potentials, these things that I
have in me but I've pushed to the side because
of all the reasons we've been talking about that cause
people to hide themselves.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
What it's funny is every time I have a dream,
and I want to talk about people who don't dream
as much at all, and I'll talk to because that's
a question I have. But we'll be right back after
a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
When I dream, I always I talk to my dreams

(30:42):
like they're my spirit guides or they're someone guiding me.
And sometimes they'll become a dream and I'll wake up
and I'll barely remember, like remember glimpses of it, and
by the time I'm having breakfast, it's gone. And I'll
and I'll I'll say as I get up, because there's
that there's that time period where you're not awaken, you're
not asleep.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, that's such a great time period for creativity.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Oh, it's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing because you're it's it's
I wish well, meditation gets you there if you do
it right, so you can get to that place of
that magical place. But what I'll do is, like I'll
come out of the dream and I'm in that halfway
point and I'll just be sitting there and I'll just
literally talk start talking not out loud but in my
mind too, to my my spirit team if you will,

(31:25):
and I'll go, guys, you got to raise the production
value if you want me to your stuff, man, and like.
And it's so funny because when I say production value
for people don't understand, it's like it has to be
bigger budgets, bigger extravaganzas, things that are going to make
me remember. And then very often a day or two later,
I'll get another dream and it's like explosions and like,
because that's because that's my language. My language is cinema.

(31:48):
So I'll have cinematic dreams for me and you, And
I'd love to ask you this as well. For me,
for me to be able to remember a dream very clearly,
someone in the film industry has to be in it,
you know, or someone in the spiritual space has to
be in it. So like if Yogananda shows up or
something like that, I'll remember it instantly. But if it's

(32:10):
a director, so Steven Spielberg shows up in my or
Chris Nolan shows up, who both have showed up in
my dreams, I'll remember it instantly. Sometimes I'll get celebrities,
but like some actors sometimes, but I'm like, it's the casting.
Who's casting up there? I need bigger names if you
want me to remember this, Like why is George Lucas
in this dream? Like all of a sudden, there's something

(32:32):
in the brain that makes me connect and remember it
so much easier. Maybe it's a hook of some sort
because of the celebrity, or because of the impact of
that person's work, or just me knowing it. Spielberg has
been in my dreams many times, so as a lot
of the big directors. Corsezy all of these guys, because
they're the ones that I remember, and I can probably
rattle off a handful of dreams I remember because of

(32:54):
those people in it. So what is your take on
the celebrity or something that is in a person's dream
that will make them remember more and more.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, you remember, not because something clicks in your brain,
but because it moves your body. So if a person
who you don't know in waking life and you can't
see them very clearly and a dream is doing something
you don't care, that's sickcasadcasting exactly. But you care about
Steven Spielberg, right, so when he shows up in the dream,

(33:25):
it moves your body in some way emotion Yeah, you know,
I can tell you right now. They're also a tremendous
number of politicians that are in people's dreams and the
world leaders, right because we emotionally engage in are waking
time with that. So the dream is like, okay, cool,
that person gets you going. So let's just use that

(33:49):
as part of telling a story back to you because
you'll remember. And this is why I say, actually nightmares
are our friends. And there are friends because we wake
up and remember for them. And so it's like a
little kick in the butt like, hey, you've got a
tangle in your waking life and so get going and

(34:09):
untangle it. And so let me back up on nightmares.
I really love to talk about nightmares.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
That next question.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, because people come to me with nightmares frequently, and
again it's that being woken up, because a nightmare is
typically a very acute emotion, anger or fear, and so
we wake up and our body has been jolted. This
is one of the interesting things about dreams. They're not

(34:37):
a thought exercise. They come from our bodies. They move
our bodies, and you know, again, watch your family pet.
Our bodies are twitching. We're running chasing squirrels exactly right, yea.
And we feel something, we feel Oh my gosh, I
can't believe that nightmare. You know. A woman came to

(34:58):
me and she had this nightmare of walking into a
stadium and just blazing it with a flamethrower. And she
woke up. Yeah, and she was like, oh my gosh,
is this me? And we started talking about it, and
then she realized, you know, I'm actually really angry in
my life. I thought I had a lid on it,
but I'm lashing out, which is the same as you know.

(35:20):
And she said, I'm lashing out and my family and
my team. And so one of the things I say
is whatever we're living in waking time, we're dreaming at night,
and whatever we're dreaming at night, we're living in waking time,
and as soon as you make that connection, she just
shifted in waking time. I need to really get in

(35:43):
here and deal with my anger and you know, not
lash out and get to the root of it so
we heal ourselves. We can also go into a dream
and shift a dream, and I'll get into that later,
but right now, in terms of dream recall, that nightmare
is okay, there's a knot like a tangle, and we

(36:05):
need to unknod it. So I also talk out loud
to my dreams a lot. Are you kidding me? Like, Okay,
here we go. It's telling you you've got to not
and it's creating all these conflicts in your life. So
just go back, wake up to it, and then go
back in and fix it.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
So with all these the fear for nightmares for me
has always been usually about fear. There was a dream,
I've said on the show, but it's just one of
those dreams I'll never forget. I was a kid, I
was living in an apartment. I was probably in sixth grade,
seventh grade, and I was living in my apartment in Florida,
and I wake up in my apartment and then here

(36:44):
I knock at the door, and it's just like it
felt like absolutely real life. And I opened the door
and there's this dark figure in a trench coat, faceless,
sitting there, and I automatically get scared because he's giant
comparatively to me. And then I said, wait a minute,
I'm dreaming. I literally became conscious. Yeah, great in the dream.

(37:05):
Oh I'm dreaming. Oh I'm going to kick this guy,
you know, asked because I grew up in the eighties
and that's what you would do. Very Freddy Krueger asked
it like I'm gonna start fighting with my dream. So
I go to kick him and the balls ok, and
he blocks it, and I'm like, oh, I'm out of here,
and I just woke up.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yes, now here's the thing. Your first move is to
kick him, right, But that's a part of you that
wants you to open the door to it. And so
if you think about things, can I speak about this dream,
go for it, because.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
I mean this is six or seven. I was six
or seven, so I don't know where I was in
that time in my life that this dream, what that meant.
So please tell me what you get your interpretation?

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Well, frequently, right, there are aspects of us that are
wanting us to see them, And it's the very aspect
that we typically want to hide under the rug because
someone told us, you know, that's not an okay thing
for expressing ourself. We can fight with it, it's probably
what we're doing in waking time, or we can open

(38:09):
the door to it and take the trench coat off,
take the mask off, the hat and see what it is.
And actually a really great story. I was at a
dinner and someone comes up to me. This was in France,
and someone comes up to me and says, are you
the American who's the dream teacher? And I said yes,
And she said, I want to tell you a dream

(38:29):
that I had a repetitive nightmare. I had it for
three years and finally it resolved. And in that dream,
someone was knocking on the door and she knew it's
a super scary figure kind of similar to yours, and
she would get right to the door and then freak
out and wake herself up. And she said, finally I
had a dream where I went to the door and

(38:50):
I opened it and it was a man standing there
and he said, I love you. And she was crying
telling me this, and she said that was me and
I needed to learn to love me. Oh wow, it's powerful.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
That's super powerful. So where does that come from? Where
does that dream come from? Is my question to you?
Is it spirit? Is it your subconscious? Is it? Is
it the mind trying to process? What, in your opinion
does this come from? Because that's pretty profound.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
It's incredibly profound, and it's not rare. These are the
kinds of things I work on with people daily. So
take out mind trying to process. That's too separated. I
talked about our dreaming self that's bigger than we are.
You can talk about it in terms of spirit, sure,

(39:44):
because that dreaming self is connected to spirit. We're all connected.
And this is the thing that I hope in things
that I say and in the dreaming work, people recognize
we're all connected. And this big all gets weezed into Bonnie.
And then we further squeeze ourselves by not opening the

(40:06):
door to aspects of ourself, by not loving certain parts
of ourself.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

Speaker 2 (40:22):
And our bigger part of ourselves that's not confined in
this material body comes in at night and is like
wait a minute, take a look at this. Check this out.
Got a message for you, Pay attention to me, and
then we can expand ourselves.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
So what is your take on people who don't dream
as much as they used to? So, like, personally, I
rarely have dreams anymore that I remember, and usually I
would remember like something happens, a little glimpse of something.
But I haven't had dream dreams in a long time,
and I have a spirit I have a spiritual explanation
for that from my dear. But I'd love to hear

(41:01):
your point of view on the dreaming cycle. Like I'm
sure I'm something's going on, but I don't remember like
anything when I wake up, So I'm like, oh, I
guess I didn't dream last night, or if I did,
I don't remember it. So what's your take on that?

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Do you have a dream journal?

Speaker 1 (41:16):
I don't. I don't have a dream. I used to,
but I just don't. But I don't wake up. It's
not like I woke up and I'm like, Oh, I
had that dream, let me write it down. I wake
up and there's nothing I know.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, but just get a dream journal, send me an email,
let me know, because it's about it's about saying, you
know what, I'm open to whatever's coming in and getting
back into the discipline of writing it down. They'll come back.
So here's the science. If we want to go to
science for a minute. Everybody dreams every night.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Sure that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
And you know people who come into sleep or search studies,
they'll say I don't dream, and then because they're there
for a study, they're like, oh, I had a dream.
It's it takes us a tiny little bit of inspiration
to get us going again on dreaming. Now, we talked
earlier about the dreams that have big production value that

(42:10):
make us remember them. Right, those big dreams typically come
at a moment when it's time to go, you know,
take a right turn, get off the main road, let's
do something different time in our life, or we're trying
to work through some kind of difficulty, like this woman
having this dream for three years. We'll dream intensely if

(42:32):
we're open to it around those times, and then maybe
we're on our path for a while and we get
to sort of just integrate that into our life. But
then we're always evolving. So just wait, there's going to
be another dream that's going to come in and be like, Okay,
now here's our next Yeah, this way exactly?

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Can it help? Can people use dreams to unlock not
only their purpose, but they're hidden dreams, meaning they're hidden loves,
the things that they might have suppressed from when they
were a child, you know, like I really wanted to
be an artist, but absolutely and I had a talent
for art, but that you know, my parents said there
could be a doctor. So I'm a doctor. And then
every once in a while you watch America's Got Talent

(43:17):
and you'll see a doctor go up there and just
start singing.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
He's like, Hey, I've been a pediatrician for the last
thirty years, but my real dream is I want to sing,
and there's amazing singing or something along those lines. So
how can we use dreams to unlock those those hidden
dreams and our purpose of why we're supposed to be here?

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah, so this happens to me a lot. Another person
came up to me once at an.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Event, coming they keep coming up to you.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
It's like a medical doctor. I don't, I don't, but
people know, you know a little bit about me. And
so another person came up to me and said, you're
the dream teacher. Yes, I am. I want to tell
you a story. You know, people like to tell me
their dreams, and I think it's important. Okay. Side note, Tangent.
One of the things I do at my institute is
we have dream groups, we have dream classes. I cannot

(44:06):
more put more emphasis on the fact that it's important
for us to dream together, to hear our dreams, to
hear what's meaningful to each other. It is such a
healing space. So and it fits into what you just
asked me. This woman says to me, I do what

(44:27):
I do for a living because of a dream. And
she said, here's the dream. There's I'm standing in Paris,
and I'm next to the river Senne, and a horse
and carriage is coming towards me. And then I turned
my head just a little bit and I see a
red motor boat zipping away from me. And she said,
I woke up and I knew I couldn't wait any

(44:50):
longer to do what I really wanted to do in life,
which was about both writing and the arts. And she
quit her job that day and within three months she
had her current job, which was she wrote for a
very large publication as a journalist covering the arts, and
she said that was the hiccup, right, like those two

(45:12):
things don't make sense. What does it mean to be
both a writer and somehow in the arts? Like how
does this piece together? She goes, I didn't have the
image of piecing it together. But what happened with that
dream It plugged her into a feeling. Do I want
to feel like this horse and carriage every day plodding along, dusty, tired?

(45:37):
Or do I want to be that motor boat? And
this comes back to that language of images there also
it's a language of feeling, and that's really important. That
doctor who gets up on America's got talent and sings.
That person got up there because they had a feeling
that they couldn't deny any longer. And that was the

(45:58):
thing she said, I couldn't wait any longer to do
what I really wanted to do. So part of what
dreams do is wake us up to the thing that
we know we want to do, but we buried it
so deeply that you know, we're like covering our eyes
to it and not paying attention to it.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
So it sounds like a lot of times we don't
move or change as a human until we get to
a certain level that's unbearable.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I keep boiling the frog.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah, it's the boiling the frog thing, because if you're
in the middle, which is the worst place to be,
it's not too bad, but it's not too good, and
you're like, I still making a check. I'll keep going
to this job. It's not that bad. I like Uncle Bob,
he works there, and like all that kind of stuff.
So only when it gets to a place that it's
unbearable is when you make the change. It sounds like

(46:48):
dreams can take you there quicker and will lessen your
need to just ignore the call of whatever you're supposed
to be doing. I call it the sledgehammer at first.
At first, the universe it goes hey, hey, exactly. Then
there's a tap, there's a tap, a push, a shug,

(47:10):
and then the sledgehammer just hits you across the head
and you're like, oh, I guess I gotta go do that.
And sometimes the way the universe works, it places you
in a place where I just lost my job, right,
I have to do something else now exactly. You're forced,
you're pushed, yeah, like you know, but it didn't have
to be that way. Dreams it sounds like can actually
speed that process up with a lot. It's a simulation,

(47:33):
so it's not like I'm really going to lose my job,
but like if you don't go down, if you get
on that speedboat, you're gonna lose your job, and then
you're gonna get there. But that could be a year
from now, or you could just do this right now.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
But it's not a simulation. It's very real because it's
showing us what our energies are doing.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
It's like your energy is an arrow and it's on
this track, and we're going to show you the track
it's on, and you can at any moment intervene to
push that energy somewhere else. If my energy is all
focused on hiding and hiding, and there's the tap and
here it is, then okay, the universe is going to

(48:11):
give us the sledgehammer. And then there's a question of
what we do with the sledgehammer, because there are many
people who just continue to I lost my job, and
then it just you know, I'm not even paying attention
to the sledgehammer. If we listen to our dreams and
we're really developing a relationship to our dreaming, it's little
course corrections all the way subtle.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
It doesn't have to be.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
It doesn't have to be the sledgehammer.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
It doesn't have to be. It's good, be just like
a little bit to the right. Yeah, a little bit
like that.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Talk to this person. When's the last time you talked
to this person? And then those dreamers ears that I
talked about earlier. Listen, listen to what these synchronicities are.
Stay open to everything, and before you know it, you've
just carved your own path. It's not because you know,
it's just the dream gave you a little subtle thing.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Now, can dreams help you shift limiting beliefs about yourself?

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Oh? Yeah, that's the big one. Tell me that's the
really big one. So all of these things. Let's think
about that belief system. I mean, that is the most
abstract statement ever. That is not like this microphone. That's tangible.
I can look at it, we can discuss it, you know,
roll it around, look at it from every angle. Belief system.

(49:26):
You have a self defeating belief system that doesn't help anybody.
What do I do with that? What does it look like?
But if I see a jumbo jet doing a U turn,
I deal with the jet forget about the abstractions of
belief systems, patterns, all these things that are so abstracted.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
It cuts through all of it, cuts through all of it.
That's interesting because then the way dreams are working, it
is cutting through your programming. It cuts through what your
belief systems are that you were raised with, and it
gets to the core of who you truly need to be,
or you need to be, or where you need to be.
But it just cuts through all the crap. So it

(50:06):
doesn't really believe if you, in your waking life believe
I can never make a living as an artist, that's impossible.
They're all starving, even though there's millions of examples of
non exactly.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
But you can't tell that to someone who's awake that's
holding that belief system right.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
But in the dream it cuts through all of that.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
It does.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
It seems like in a dream state, your guard is gone.
and now back to the show. It is. You have
no barrier. You can't argue with it. It's just what

(50:46):
it is. And it seems as close as you can
get to spirit as possible. The spirit from my experience
is it's not neither good nor bad. It's just is.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yeah. So here's what happens in our brain when we
go to sleep and we start to dream. The default network,
which is the neural processing system that lights up when
we're dreaming, and I want to emphasize again, dreaming is
a full body thing. I'm just talking about. What, you know,
the vision inside our brain looks like that default system

(51:21):
really lights up. It gets supremely active, and the part
of our brain, the executive network that is the one
that criticizes, judges patterns, it's literally taken offline. So whether
we want it or not, we're in this dream state
where every possibility is not only shown to us, you know,

(51:44):
not all at once, obviously, but what we need to
hear at that point in our life is not only
shown to us. We're engaging with it as I. I
am in the stream and I decide to take this
train and go here because it's I and I'm embodied,
and I'm feeling the consequences of these choices. Oh my god,

(52:07):
I miss that train and I feel the consequence of
not getting on the train. Then something is able to
shift in me, and then I can wake up and
I can have that discussion with myself. I've seen the
belief system. Every time something is possible, I don't do it.
I'll give you an example. I worked with a person

(52:29):
who had a series of dreams that all had the
same kind of theme, and one specific dream. He's on
a train. A girl he knows who's been successful post
university gets on. She's wearing a bright yellow sweater, and
he looks outside and suddenly is super snowy, and all
of a sudden, he just gets off the train. And

(52:51):
so where our conversation started there is what am I
getting off instead of going all the way? And what
is the belief system of getting off before going all
the way. And it's very easy to articulate at that point,
I don't believe I can, I don't, you know. But
because it's felt I don't want to get off the train,

(53:14):
then we can actually do a waking dream exercise. Go
back into the dream, get back on the train, and
go all the way to center and see what is there.
And it's not even necessarily about seeing what's there, is
the feeling of shifting that pattern in our body energy

(53:35):
of going all the way, because now our whole life
has changed. Now in my waking time. I've married my
conscious thinking with my dreaming self or what you called
earlier the subconscious, and I have broken that pattern consciously.
I have consciously felt seen and done in my imagination

(53:57):
going all the way, and then I can do it.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
It's almost like what's it called visualization when you do
visualizations in waking life, like you just sit there and
that they did an experiment, like they had a group
of kids sit there and pretend in their mind that
they were making the shot again in the basketball court
and making the shot, making the shot, making the shot,
and then for the same ten or fifteen minutes they

(54:20):
had another team practice and the kids who visualize got
more shots.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
In absolutely And what's so great is instead of that
scenario practice doing a shot, our dreams serve it up
to us. They get us teed up and ready to go.
Here you are, you're on the train. There's this person
who is an aspect of you, bright yellow sunny sweater
in the middle of this frozen landscape, who is successful,

(54:48):
and you get off the train.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
So there's a very famous dream that happened in Hollywood
for a film director and almost you've ever heard the
James Cameron story. No, So James Cameron. Everyone who's listening
tod Titanic and Avatar and a thousand other amazing films
that he's done. And he was on his first feature,

(55:11):
which was Piranha to the Spawning.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Oh okay, I missed that one.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
You should miss it. He goes, It's the best, this
best Piranha, flying Piranha movie ever made. He says, uh,
he was fired midway through. And but he's James Cameron,
so he wanted to control and all this stuff. And
he's in Rome. I think they're shooting it in Rome.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
The Piranha movie in Rome got it?

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Of course? Why not? And uh, he's snuck in. He's
to sneaking at night to the edit room and re
edit everything. So when the editor got it was like
what what like you know back in the day when
you were editing. H yeah, Well he got deathly ill.
He had this massive fever and he went to sleep
with this fever and he had this fever dream which

(55:53):
I want to talk about fever dreams in a minute,
But he had this fever dream and in that dream
he's saw a meadow ecoskeleton rising from a burning rubble,
which is the terminator absolutely, and that began his career.
So my question to you, it really began who we

(56:14):
know is you know he thinks him as him. Terminator
was the first thing that broke James Cameron. So my
question to you is when these kind of dreams come
into your life, these innovative dreams, like like Tesla talked
about dreams, Einstein talked about dreams that they figure things
out or they're inspired by something they see in a dream.

(56:35):
That basically is a gift to humanity and many and
many depending on who it is, uh is a gift
to not only humanity, but a lot of times it's
a gift to you. Like perfect example is James when
he did when he had the Terminator. I mean that
changed his life totally. He was at the lowest point
of his life when he had that dream. He was
fired off his first movie. He's never going to get

(56:56):
another movie made. He's in Rome with a fever. I'm
making up Prana flying Karan on the movie. It's the
sequel to Piranha. It's not even and now he's his
whole career changed, and arguably, you know the world's the
world changed because he made these movies that changed the
world in many ways. So where does that come from?

(57:18):
Because now it's not just a reflection, it's not like
a walk through. Now there's creative ideas coming through and
that are changing people's lives. Where do those creative ideas
are being generated? Because that's a real specific it is.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
But here's the thing ex post facto. We know the Terminator,
but in that dream, he rose up out of his
own fire of being fired. He rose up.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
As Theminator, which it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
But you see what I'm saying. The dream operates on
multiple levels. Right, he was going to rise up out
of the fire.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
With this inspiration, but he didn't know that at the.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Time, but he himself whether he would have done something
called the Terminator or something else, his dream was showing
him you can rise up after being fired. Easy. What
he did, which is super is he took that and
he became very, very creative with it.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
He drew it because he was an artist, so he
drew the Terminator.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Twilight series came from a dream. There's so many things
that came from dream, not only in that kind of thing,
but also insulin as a cure for diabetes. Beethoven used
to compose music for instruments that he had dreamed that
don't exist. We have so much creative inspiration inside of ourselves,

(58:42):
and the really big question is are we going to
do something with it? And like that little juicy time
period that's not quite awake and not quite asleep, it's
so important and it's that dreaming while awake kind of
space where so many ideas come to us. Most people

(59:05):
recognize that time is it's the same default network that
kicks in at that time that is responsible for dreaming,
that's responsible for the imagination and so many other things
in our mind. Most people recognize that time in the shower,
Like many people tell me, Oh, yeah, I've been in
the shower and then all of a sudden boom that idea,
and I knew how to solve that problem. Same it's

(59:26):
when we actually get really quiet and just daydream and
relax into something that we become a font of ideas
like meditation.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Yeah, it happens a lot.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
But what's so great about, you know, the creativity of
dreaming is James had that dream and he did the
terminator with it. Who knows what anybody else who had
had that dream would have done with it themselves. A
million different creative things could have come from that, right,
The important thing is that something came from it. You

(59:58):
know how many great idea is are not part of
the world because people aren't paying attention to their dreams
or getting curious about that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
They're afraid of moving forward, which is unfortunate. And that's
the other thing that too that I'm not sure how
if this works in dreams or not. But we'll be
right back after a word from our sponsor, and now
back to the show. This kind of phenomenon of two

(01:00:31):
people around the world, from different parts of the world
thinking of the exact same idea at the exact same time. Yeah,
so Alexander Glenbell was actually given the credit for creating
the telephone, but there was another dude in I think
it might have been France. I'm not sure how happens
all the time that he actually like he actually trademarked

(01:00:52):
it earlier by like a day or two. It was crazy,
h he did it in Europe and he did an American,
so it's it happens all the time, the.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Same with sleep that was discovered in France and in
the US simultaneously.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
And then also like, well, I hear I've heard this
from Spielberg. I've heard this from Michael Jackson, Prince that
Spielberg once said, He's like, yeah, when dreams come or
a dream comes or an idea flows in, if I
don't move on it, it goes to the next And
he's like and then all of a sudden, six months later,

(01:01:28):
you're like, oh, James Cameron's making that movie. So James
Cameron was supposed to do Jurassic Park. I don't know
if you knew that or not. No, I did not James Cameron.
He basically lost the opportunity to Jurassic Park by four hours.
Spielberg signed it four hours before James. They both had Interesting,
they both under they both knew Michael Crichton, they both

(01:01:49):
read the script, the book, the thing, and Spielberg jumped
on it four hours earlier. Interesting, and James lost it.
And he's like, thank god, because ours minds would have
been like Aliens. I think would have been a much
scarier you know. So I'm so glad Stephen got it.
But that's was so fascinating, and that happens all the time.
I think the famous story was with Michael Jackson, Michael

(01:02:11):
Jackson or Prince one of the I think it was, Yeah,
it was Prince. Prince was infamous for just making music
anytime in the night. Wow, and he has I think
we have enough Prince music in his vault to release
a brand new album every year into the year three
thousand r that's how many thousands and thousands and thousands
of unreleased songs.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
There's a guy who's just sitting there and cataloging and
it's insane. But he would call up his backup singers
and he said, Hey, I need you to come to
the studio, But Prince's three o'clock in the morning. Can
we wait three hours to come in, Like, can we
finish sleeping? He's like, no, no, no, no. If I don't
write this down and record it now, Michael Jackson's gonna
take it from me.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Really, that's super interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
That's the way he was thinking, Like, my this idea
came to me, I don't grab it and own it.
It's gonna go somewhere else. So that happens throughs as well. Yeah,
would you agree?

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
We yeah, we pick up on you know, thoughts have
form the ether, but thoughts have form, you know. The
movement of being inspired is an energy the moment it
becomes a thought, it takes on a certain kind of form,

(01:03:24):
and what Prince is talking about or was talking about,
is then taking that form and making it really tangible.
I have to write this song, and I have to
do it right now. And that's the thing too. I'm
glad you're talking about this because I might have a
dream that could really change and shift and move my life.

(01:03:46):
But if I dismiss it, it's not gonna be And
that's the thing people always say, Well, if I dream it,
it's gonna just come to pass. Not necessarily. We have
to do the hard work. We have to bring it
into actual material, tangible form.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Would you agree that, let's say, a equantum physics equation
will not come into my mind to solve you know,
string theory, because I'm not the person to accept that
kind of idea, because I wouldn't know what to do
with it. Just like someone who's not an artist or creative,
that terminator dream would just have been a nightmare. It

(01:04:24):
could have been related as a nightmare, or would have
just been dismissed. But because it was given to the
right person who has the right skill set, it's able
to come into the world does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Yeah? Absolutely, And you know, not only that speaks to
that beautiful thing of how subjective each of us are,
our subjectively constructed life. And back to this word purpose,
So being open to what I can bring through and

(01:04:58):
carry into this life, for me, that's purpose. And I
really want to underline that because there's a lot of
people today who feel sort of paralyzed or stagnant because
there's so many changes happening so fast, and it's like,
you know, I'm going to put my head in the
sand because it's too much. Yeah, and when you ask

(01:05:20):
someone you know to like, well, you can engage, you
can start doing different things and any little thing, but
be open to I might be the person to just
bring big love into the world. That's also needed. And
that is something that our dreams also do. They remind
us of our capacity to love, to step over these

(01:05:41):
places of paralysis or these places of cynicism. There's so
much cynicism these days. Our dreams can remind us that
big love is really possible and that shifts everything.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
How can we use dreams to really be our our
problem solvers in our lives. Our mirrors in our life
are therapists in our life, like, how can we consciously
do that? Because again it still sounds a lot of passiveness,
meaning like it's happening to us as opposed to us
creating an intention before we go to sleep. I have

(01:06:17):
this problem. If you guys can help me, if you
want to talk it to us as it's a team
or something, but or the universe or whatever you want
to call it, like, can you send me help? Can
I get help in this problem I'm having or I
feel stuck? What should I do those kind of things?
Is there a way in the way you teach that
we can use dreams to act actively help us.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Absolutely, And so it really starts. It's my second reminder
to you, Alex of getting a dream notebook, get a
journal because if we start asking the universe to give
us something, that's going to and so we have to
have a journal to catch it. It's so important because

(01:06:59):
if I disregard my inner self talking to me, or
if I know say oh yes, I'd like to have
you know this phone call come in, and then I
never turn my phone on, it's going to start to
then set up this idea of yeah, I asked, but
nothing ever came to me, and that creates also cynicism.

(01:07:22):
That's a self created problem. So if I'm going to
have a curiosity about something, I really want to understand
and break out of a pattern, like someone said to
me the other day, of always dating the same guy,
the ends in conflict. Okay, that's great, it's already a
first step. I recognize there's a pattern. Super If I

(01:07:45):
now want to ask my dreams to help me with that,
I have to be open to receiving what my dreams
tell me, and that means getting a dream journal, writing
it down, and then after I've written it down, being
really curious about you know that thing you're talking about of?
You know, do I have the courage to face myself
get really curious, like what are the hard questions this

(01:08:09):
dream is trying to get me to pay attention to?
And can I start walking through my waking time letting
these questions kind of roll around in my mind and
see where I'm doing some of these things and how
I can shift it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
In your research, have you come across ancient teachings about
dreams and have you studied those like the Vadic side
or the Eastern philosophy, or just any culture in ancient
times who talked about dreams because it's been going on
since we've been human.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
So what I teach is an ancient lineage of dreams
and it originated in the thirteenth century two rabbis of
the Mediterranean, and it's a kabalistic rooted way of looking
at dreams and our inner spontaneous imagery. And cabala is

(01:09:01):
a word that means to receive. And one of the
questions that this approach to dreaming asks is receive what
and how? So it's about learning to look inside ourselves
and have those revelatory and by revelatory again, it could

(01:09:23):
just be so simple as oh, I'm I'm causing myself
to trip and stumble because I've got this pattern or whatever,
but that inner revelatory experience and being able to then
do something with that experience in waking time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Have you in your travels, have you been able have
you seen other have you studied other dream ideas in
the ancient times and other cultures, how they approach how
they approach dreaming and what they say about dreaming.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
I mean, I've had, you know, sort of cursory touches
with that. But what I'm talking about here and in
this lineage. I studied it deeply, deeply, intensely for about
ten years with one teacher and about ten more with another,
and it's so rich and so full of information. You

(01:10:18):
talked about people looking to the East for meditative, reflective practices,
but it's also in our Western esoteric tradition, and you know,
Judaism gave rise to Christianity, and later Islam kind of
came from.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
That same Abraham.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
For me. You know, it's it's interesting to look at
what are some of the foundations of the Western esoteric
tradition that this comes from.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
That's also interesting, Yeah, because it's been muffled a lot
in the West. The West is not looked into the
spiritual and not look into the esoteric from the scenes
to who are the ones the mystics in Islam, the Sufis,
the Sufis, Cabal, all these kind of mystic aspects of

(01:11:24):
the Western It just kind of quieted it down. And
I know, it's pretty interesting how it's worked because back
in the Roman times, I mean the Delphi, the Oracle
of Delphi, a lot they were much more into the esoteric.
They were much more into the spirit, They were much
more into those kind of things. But as time went on,
it seemed to like we lose track of it. The

(01:11:46):
East kept it for a lot of a lot of
those years. But it's fascinating to see how it all
kind of shook out.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Well, it kind of took a hard left with the
age of Enlightenment, which was not so enlightened, and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
So what is the age of enlightenment that sort of.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Came parallel with philosophy, Descartes and industrialization. People in Europe
began to get super fascinated with clockmaking, and yeah they
are and making a sort of deciding that the human
body was a mechanism as well and mechanizing everything. And

(01:12:26):
we're still living this idea that we're just mechanical and
we've lost that sense of wholeness.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Well, yeah, I mean the medical field in general, it's
like you walk into a doctor and it's like I
can cut you open or prescribe something to you, and
it's all like this or this, But they never look
at the underlining, more holistic purpose of what's causing all
of this. They look at the body very much as
a machine and it is to a certain extent, but
there's so much more it is, and it's not exactly

(01:12:54):
it is, and it is not. It's so much more.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
Here's a great story. Gene Achterberg wrote a book called
Shamanism and Healing or Imagery and Healing, Shamanism Healing, something
like that, and in it such a fantastic story. There's
a guy who was in a hospital bed and he
had a heart problem and his eyes were closed. The

(01:13:18):
doctor comes in, you know, with all these residents in tow,
thinks he's asleep, pulls up his chart, looks at it
and says he has a galloping heart, puts the chart
back in leaves. Six months later, the guy who was
in the bed, hospital bed shows up for an appointment
with this doctor. This doctor was shocked because in medical parlance,

(01:13:38):
a galloping heart means that's it. Like he's out of here.
He comes in. The doctor's like hi, you know, and
he said, I just wanted to see you and thank you.
Because as soon as I knew I heard you say
you have a galloping heart, I knew how strong my
heart was like a horse, and I knew I'd be okay, wow,

(01:14:00):
yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
And then it's like, no, it's not I meant at all.
You're supposed to be dead.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
Well hopefully you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Say that. Yeah, but that's the god. What's the effect
I'm losing placebo.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
But it's the effect of our inner imagery as a
healing system. That's what I'm talking about with dreams, our
inner imagery. So dreaming is really the language of our experience,
and all these things that we're experiencing is put into form.
And if that form is say the image of you know,

(01:14:43):
the person who's blasting the stadium, I can shift it,
I can correct it. But that image, and even from
the standpoint of cognitive neuropsychology, image is our blueprint for action.
We have an image and then later we have thought.
So if we start working with thought, we're a step removed,

(01:15:06):
and then we have to get to image and then
changing the physical system. But here with dreaming, there's a
physical system and an image which is the action point.
So if we work with that image and we shift
that image, then it shifts my action point. Forget about thought.

(01:15:26):
Thought is sluggish compared to what is possible for us
to do.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
I think the core idea of this conversation for people
to understand is that we have so much more power
within ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
We have all the tools we need to solve our
own problems.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
And that's terrifying to a lot of people because they've
never been told that before. Yeah, they've been told that
everything's outside of you. But this body can heal itself,
this mind can heal itself, and there are tools that
are inside of us that we just are not even
aware of or have ignored or rejected because of whatever

(01:16:04):
programming or trauma or things that we've dealt with. But
I think hopefully that people listening to this conversation will
understand that we have all the power within us and
dreams are just another tool to do things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
Yeah, and by the way, I do believe that all
of that you use the phrase outer programming is part
of our job on this planning absolutely to experience it,
get stuck by it, and then overcome it, because it's like,
you know, it's really like a pearl. It's that irritation

(01:16:37):
that causes us to do something and refine and hone
ourselves because really, as humans, we're all couch potatoes. We're
like the cats. We just want to like lay around
and yeah, yeah, and not put a lot of effort
into doing things, and so that sledgehammer you talked about
that pain point when it's like, if I keep laying

(01:16:59):
on the couch, it's just going to get worse and worse.
We finally get to that pain point where it's like, Okay,
I'm going to make changes, and so part of our
own becoming is overcoming getting stuck.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
Well, I mean, and you know, my understanding after all
the research I've done, is that on the spiritual side,
is that we choose who we come in as we
choose what we do, where we come in, what country
we come in, the time we come in, the parents.
We have all of that because it's part of the
things that we need to learn along this way. But
even if you don't want to even go down the
spiritual and just go stay practical and you only live

(01:17:36):
one life, let's say, without all of that program, and
you don't have a journey you need, you don't like
you had to go through all the stuff you went through.
I had to go through all the stuff I went
through to get to where we are today.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
That's who made us. That's what made us. It's all
the experiences and the things that we had to overcome,
but without that muck that gets thrown on us. And
sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. But whatever that is is,
it's who we are.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Yeah, and it's actually interesting for the most part because
it's a life is an adventure, so.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
And sure there's some difficult times and then there's some
great times. But I think about it as an adventure
because you know, I've traveled around the world and done
different things, and when I come home from these travels,
what's really exciting to tell people is, oh, and then
we landed on this strip in the middle of the
highlands in Papua New Guinea and there was a storm
and this was happening. Those are the parts that we

(01:18:36):
tell people. We don't say, oh, yeah, my plane was
on time and and that's boring.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
Oh oh, I agree with you one hundred percent. As
a friend of mine told me once, it was very
profound statements like when you die, you'll remember the vacations
you took, the time you spent with your family, time
you spent with your friends, the good times. Those things.
That's what you're going to remember. You're not going to
remember the other stuff. When you're on your way out.

(01:19:02):
You're not thinking about all the negative stuff. You're you're
trying to recap all the great stuff. And those experiences
are what really make a good, fulfilling life. It's many
of those experiences as you can. Maybe it's not always traveling,
but whatever that is. Those fun things are what you're
going to remember.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
And it's so true and what makes them fun sometimes
is that was challenging and we got over it. I mean,
that really did happen to me. We were going into
in this you know, plane into the papaen Guinea highlands
and had to divert because there were two groups of
Papua ne Guinea and people who decided to use that
landing strip as to fight each other. Lovely, yeah, lovely.

(01:19:42):
So you know it's exciting. These things are exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
Oh no, I mean the adventures when you go traveling,
the adventures they come up. You're like, oh, yeah, we
were in the middle of you know, Spain somewhere and
we walked into this place and oh my god, And
isn't that like it's just it's visceral us role on
those kind of adventures. Life is about adventure, it is,
and just bring it all the way back to dreams.
Dreams are a way to show you where you can go,

(01:20:10):
and it can give you ideas, it can guide you,
it can help you heal. It is a very powerful,
powerful tool and gift that we all, every one of
us have. You don't have to be educated, you don't
have to be rich, you don't have to be poor.
It happens too.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
You can do it, all of us, all by yourself,
for yourself when you start to pay attention to it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:33):
But I'm gonna ask you a few questions I ask
all my guests. Yeah, what is your definition of living
a fulfilled life? We'll be right back after a word
from our sponsor, and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
For me, it's what we've been talking about of being
able to be my true self and what that means
in the really small being able to really be present
with other people, be present to what's happening in the
world around me. The you know, very beautiful butterfly that
ten people blazed past because they're in such a hurry,

(01:21:12):
But I see it. It's being able to love fully
that's fulfilling.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
To If you had a chance to go back in
time and speak to little Bonnie, what advice would you
give her.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
I don't know that I need to go back in time.
It's all just part of the journey. I might just say,
have fun.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Now. If little Bonnie could speak to you today, what
advice would she give you?

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
Keep going?

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
Keep going?

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
How do you define God's source? Divine? How do you
define that?

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
I think it's better to not define.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
That simple as that. What is love also.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
Not something that we need to define. We feel it,
we know it, and it becomes tangible in moments of
kindness and reaching out to other people, being present to people.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
If you can talk to the divine, if you could
ask the divine one question, what would it be?

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
I don't know that I need to ask that question.
I'm so you know that is one hallmark of dreamers
is just being open. I don't need to know. I
just want to experience.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
And in your opinion, what is the ultimate purpose of life?

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
To really be present to our experience and to love fully?

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
And where can people find out more about you and
the amazing work you're.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Doing in the world, So you can come. We have
classes and we do one on one work with people.
That's Institute for Dreaming and Imagery dot com. You can
find out more about the book at Bonnie Buckner dot com.
Either of those two places you can send us an email.
We'll get back in touch with you. Follow us on Instagram,

(01:22:52):
dream with Idi or Bonnie Buckner dot com with it
all spelled out.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
And do you have any party messages for the audience.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Get a dream journal. This is my third reminder, Alex,
get a dream journal. Just start to write your dreams
and just get curious.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
Banie, It's been a pleasure talking to you. I'm gonna
go dream tonight. I'll start writing some stuff down as
I come out. But I do appreciate you and everything
you're helping helping to do to awaken the planet.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
So thank you, thank you, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
I'd like to thank doctor Bonnie Buckner so much for
coming on the show and sharing her knowledge and wisdom
with all of us. If you want to get links
to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over
to the show notes at next levelsoul dot com Forward
slash six one three. Now. If this conversation stirred something
in you, there's more waiting. You can listen to this
episode completely commercial free on Next Level Soul TV's app

(01:23:44):
where Soul meets streaming, Watch and listen on Apple iOS, Android,
Apple TV, Ruku, Android TV Fire, tv LG, and Samsung
apps anytime, anywhere. Begin your awakening at next level soul.
Thank you so much for listening. As I always say,
trust the journey. It's there to teach you. I'll see

(01:24:08):
you next time.

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