NLS 629: PAUL vs JESUS: The GREATEST LIE in History REVEALED! RELIGIOUS Manipulation EXPOSED! with Aaron Abke

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
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(00:23):
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today's episode. Disclaimer. The views and opinions expressed in this

(01:26):
podcast are those of the guests and do not necessarily
reflect the views or positions of this show, its host,
or any of the companies they represent. Now, today we
welcome back Aaron Apkey in an explosive episode of Next
Level Soul where we talk about not only the hidden

(01:46):
and true repressed teachings of Jesus Christ, but we also
discuss Paul, how Paul and Luke, who was a disciple
of Paul wrote over half of the New Testament, and
we go deeper and deeper and deeper. So if you're
interested in this kind of stuff, sit back, relax, and enjoy.

(02:08):
I like to welcome back to the show returning champion
Aaron Afkans.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Hey, Eric, great to be back with you, man, Thanks
for having me on.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Thanks for coming back man. Our last conversation made a
little a couple of.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Waves, a little splash, A little splash.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Man. That thing did break a million, or was almost
a million.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I haven't checked in a while, but it's.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Almost a million. Views on that. That's insane, man. It
was an explosive conversation. It's one of my favorite topics
about the truth of Christianity, true teachings of Jesus. How
is Christianity broken down? Like created all that stuff? And
that's what we kind of went into before. But since then, well,
you've written a book called The Three Beliefs of the Ego.

(02:47):
We're going to dive into this a little later in
our conversation, but since then you've also kind of expanded
your knowledge base in that subject of Paul being the
original kind of architect of the Christianity that we know today.
So what have you been doing that's expanded this knowledge

(03:08):
so much? And let's kind of dig into this a
little bit because I love talking about this as a
recovering Catholic.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
I find it to be the most interesting subject to
study by far, and I just don't know why everyone
doesn't feel the same way, Like, how do you guys
not all want to study this twenty four to seven
like I do? But I think the reason it matters
to me so much is because Yeshua has always played
such a pivotal role in my life growing up as
a pastor's kid in church kind of similar to you.

(03:38):
I was such a devout Christian man and Jesus was
my model. He was my idol. I wanted to be
just like Jesus, but Christianity kept telling me I couldn't
be like him, so all I could do is confess
him and worship him. But once I got to be
in my twenties, that view of Jesus of always placing
the Christ outside of myself just wore off, and I
just thought, this is not what Jesus taught. Jesus didn't teach.

(04:01):
As we talked about last time, Jesus absolutely never told
anybody to confess him as Lord and Savior or believe
in his death and resurrection. These are like Greek gentile
ideas that came long after Jesus. Jesus is, you know,
so teiology was abundantly clear over and over again. He
says repent and God forgives you. And he also preached

(04:22):
baptism for the remission of sins, which is a singularly
a scene philosophy that you do not find in any
other Jewish sect in history. So that's a huge point.
I think even the fact that Jesus came preaching a
new way of interpreting the Torah is a huge thing
that scholars look at is like, who was this guy?

(04:43):
Because in his day, you don't just show up on
the scene as a rabbi and say, like you've heard
it was said in that Old Testament, you know, to
knock eye for an eye up. But I say to
you a new commandment. He was reinterpreting the Torah for people,
which no good Pharisee or Sadducey would have done. They
were trying to follow the Orthodox approach. And he's out
here saying, go out into the wilderness, get baptized. He's

(05:07):
you know, opposing the temple cult vehemently and cleansing the
temple and condemning animal sacrifice over and over again, which
is also an exclusively a scene philosophy that you do
not find in any other Jewish sect. So Alex I
could lay out at least a dozen parallels from the
and I say the Asscenes. But let's from now on

(05:30):
call it the Acene type Judaism, because scholars now are
kind of coming to a consensus that the Acenes weren't
just one sect of you know, mystical Jews in the Transjordan.
It was a type of Judaism that emerged from an
original group that split off from Orthodoxy. So like the
Lutheran or the Baptist of yeah, it's no different, right,

(05:50):
It's just like Christian denominations. By the time we get
to the first century CE Jesus's day, the Acenes had
already bifurcated about one hundred years prior into two different
sects of a scene four or after Jesus. They bifurcated
before Jesus, and the Ocenes became the sect the name
of the sect to the south, and the Nasarenes the
sect to the north. And Jesus, as we know, emerged

(06:13):
from the Nasara region as a Nazarene. That's why he
was called Jesus the Nazarene. And the craziest thing is
man when you study our earliest sources, Hegesippus, Eusebius, Josephus, Philo, plenty,
they're all talking about this original form of Christianity called
Nazarene Christianity. It was a type of Jewish Christianity, which

(06:36):
we see also reflected in the Book of Acts. By
the way, Paul is actually accused in the Book of Acts,
which I don't think is historical, by the way, but
he's accused in the Book of Acts of being the
ring leader of the sect of the Nazarenes, the followers
of the way Paul is accused in Acts twenty four,
I believe, and he admits, yes, I am basically part
of this sect. So we have very early sources in

(06:58):
the first centuries showing that there was a sect called
the Nazarenes whom the followers of Jesus were part of,
and Jesus was famously called Jesus the Nazarene. In fact,
most of the references in the New Testament, which are
translated as Jesus of Nazareth, it's not of Nazareth. In
the Greek, it's Jesus the Nazarios, the Nazarene. So it's
a sectarian designation. And the Catholic Church, which you grew

(07:21):
up in. Who do they say Alex was Jesus's appointed successor.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Of his church, Wasn't it?

Speaker 2 (07:28):
They say Peter? Right? And the funny thing is there's
absolutely not one trace of historical evidence, real historical evidence
that Peter ever went to Rome and started a church
at Rome, or that Jesus appointed Peter as his successor
was James. It was James the Just. We have numerous
first century historians attesting to this. In second century that

(07:48):
Jesus appointed his brother James as his successor. And it's
in the Gospel of Thomas as well, which is I
think the earliest gospel we have. And in the Gospel
of Thomas, Jesus appoints James and says, after I'm gone,
you all should follow James the Just, who's his brother,
And he says, for whose sake heaven and earth came
into being, which is a kind of Semitic phrase back then,

(08:09):
for this is an incredibly righteous person. It's like the
whole universe came into being so that this righteous person
could exist. It's kind of what he's implying. So Jesus,
if these early first century you know, attestations of Jesus
are true, Jesus had enormous respect for his brother's spirituality.
And I often say that there was a whole lot
more enlightenment in Mary and Joseph's genes then just went

(08:33):
to Jesus. Jesus had a very enlightened brother who ruled
his church, the Nazarene Church, which Jesus started. He ruled
it for almost thirty years before he got assassinated. And
then who did James appoint? James appointed his other brother, Simeon,
who is the half brother of Jesus, and then Simeon
led the church, the Nazarene Church of Jesus until about

(08:54):
one hundred and fifteen or one hundred and twenty a d.
So into the second century, and our earliest records Hegesippus
the Nazarene, who was a historian of the Nazarenes. Eusebius
as well, both record that Simeon, the brother of Jesus
and James, who led the Jesus Church the Nazarene Church,
was one hundred and twenty years old when he was

(09:17):
kidnapped by Roman centurions, I believe, and he's tortured to
death by Roman centurions. And it says all the Roman
soldiers were marveling at how much torture this guy could
endure at his ripe old age of one hundred and twenty.
This guy was still leading the church at one hundred
and twenty, which means his mental acuity must have been
pretty good. He must have been pretty healthy, and he

(09:38):
endured unimaginable torture before he died, and that's the brother
of Jesus Man. And this has all been wiped out
and ignored by the Catholic Church because it's not their
tradition and they need to offu scated to go, oh,
we've got the real tradition. Look over here, and when
you look at the history, it's laughable. The Catholic Church
isn't even the first Christian Church or the second. They're
at best the third church. Addition, the first tradition was

(10:01):
the Nazarenes, and then the Gnostics came along and they
were actually larger than the Orthodox or Proto Orthodox Church
for quite a while.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
And the only reason the Proto Orthodox Church of Rome
went out is because they had the might of the
Roman Empire they could use to stomp out their opposition.
And eventually Gnosticism is put to rest by the Roman
Catholic Church and outlawed. And so they are actually the
third Christian tradition, not the first. And there is no
proof at all that Peter started their church. But in

(10:41):
fact there's an enormous amount of proof that it's impossible
that Peter started the Catholic Church. And like, we're not
taught any of this in church. We're not even taught
this at universe Christian universities. It's such a little known
thing that a lot of Christians will sort of laugh
it off when they hear me talk about it.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
It's funny because I mean, I went to Catholic school
most of my life. I've never once heard of the brother. Yep,
I never heard about James the Brother.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Because they believe Mary was a perpetual virgin, so that
Jesus can't have brothers.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Right, so they don't. They don't acknowledge it at all, No,
that he had they had had siblings.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
No, they can't.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
And then they also cannot acknowledge Mary Magdalene and what
she rue her. He couldn't they couldn't get away, They
couldn't remove her completely from the story because she was
too integral to the story. Yeah, but then they just
made her a whore.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
You have to make her a whore or something. Yeah,
Jesus would never be with a horror exactly.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
And and on top of that, women of course could
not have any sort of power, hence no female priests
or anything like that. I wanted to go back real
quick with the baptism thing. When you say that Jesus
was a proponent of baptism. The way we were raised
baptism was to take away original sin. Original sin is
a pall thing. If I'm mistaken, right, where did that

(11:59):
come from?

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Because it's not g Yeah, more or less, it traces
back to Paul. The thing about Paul is is that
Paul's teachings also got massively distorted and warped.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
That's called karma, Yeah, it is, for sure.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Is it's like, how do you like it?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Paul?

Speaker 2 (12:14):
You distorre Jesus, They distorre you. How do you like it?
But yeah, Paul never uses that term. It's not in
the Bible. But Paul uses phrases like there's no one righteous,
not even one quoting from the Old Testament, all have
gone astray, etc. So later Catholic theologians used Paul's writings
to justify theologies they were inventing. And this is something

(12:35):
that scholars study very closely, right, is they study the
evolving theology that got stuffed into the New Testament over time,
and eventually the theologies that get stuffed into the mouth
of Jesus, which he absolutely never said, and in my opinion,
would have angrily rebuked. If somebody was like, hey, Jesus,
you're coming to die for the sins of the world
right so that God can forgive us. I think Jesus

(12:56):
would have ripped his garments in half. It's such a statement.
Nowhere it does Jesus say that. Jesus is abundantly clear
if you sin, repent, and God forgives you. He tells
multiple parables about it. When he's asked directly teacher Rabbi,
what must I do to inherit eternal life? Why didn't
Jesus say, well, easy, you must confess me as your

(13:17):
personal Lord and savior. Believe I was died and rose
again for your sins, and you will be saved. Why
didn't Jesus say what Paul said if they had the
same theology. Jesus says, if you want to enter eternal life,
keep the commandments, and he appeals to the ten commandments,
and in Matthew's version, he lists out the five love
your neighbor commandments, which is, don't kill, don't steal, don't lie,

(13:39):
don't fornicate, etc. And then he says, and love your
neighbor as yourself. He says, that's the way to eternal life.
And it's like, have you ever heard a pastor say
that in a Christian church? Listen, congregation this morning. I'm
here to tell you the way to heaven is to
keep the commandments and love your neighbor as yourself. If
you tried to say that at a church today, a
fundamentalist church, they would shout you off the stage as

(14:00):
a heretic. Now, you don't go to heaven by loving
your neighbor. That's works you have to confess and believe,
like Paul said, And so I find that to be.
Isn't that kind of an insult to the Master that
we ignore his actual statements on salvation and we prefer pauls.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
But you just said something very clear and very interesting.
You said, the Master. You and I both look at
him as a master among many other masters who've walked
the earth, you know, and we're just drawn to him.
He's one of the ones that I was drawn to
obviously as well. But they don't look at him as
a Master. They look at him as God. And that
was the thing I never understood as a kid. I'm like,

(14:35):
wait a minute, old that he's the son of God,
but yet he's our God. So what happens like in
the hierarchy where's does the Father just get pushed out?
And he's like it just never there's so many plot holes.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, telling me, dude, I'm now studying this at a
university to get my masters in this, and so I'm
digging into like really high level scholarship on this. And
it's so clear when you study like early Greek Hellenism,
early Judaism, and then Christianity, which is like the love
child of you know, Greek Hellenism, Paganism had a baby

(15:13):
with Judaism. You get this three headed, ugly monster of
the Trinity of the Catholic Church. It's like this weird
blend of polytheism and monotheism. It's like they're three different
gods but they're one. It's like, no, that's obviously a contradiction,
and you can go into the metaphysics of that idea
and just destroy it easily. It's very fallacious theology. But

(15:35):
the reason that they came up with the Trinity the
Catholic Church fathers is because it's a conclusion in search
of an argument they're trying to prove their premise by
working it backwards. So they have all these verses about Father,
they have verses about Jesus being the Son, and then
the Holy Spirit. They're all God. We say, Jesus is God.
How do we work this problem out. We've got to

(15:55):
make it so that Jesus is just as much God
as the Father is, but also distinct. So let's just
say that they are. They're all different persons but the
same person.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Oh, so it's the Holy Trinity, the.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Trinity, the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. Because they
needed to upgrade Jesus to be a God. Because look,
if you're trying to preach this Jewish Nazarene message that
Jesus Christ was the Messiah, the Hama Shiach. Yessue with
the Nazarene was the Hama Shiach. The scriptures foretold. He
came to put us back into rights standing with God,

(16:29):
and he did that by opposing and destroying the Temple cult,
which had infiltrated Judaism that was the cause of all
the problems in Jesus's day, essentially, and he went in
there with juevos of steel and opposed it to their face.
And said, go and learn what this means. I desire mercy,
not sacrifice Hoseah six y six. And he says, if
you even knew what that verse meant, you would not

(16:51):
have condemned the innocent, speaking of the animals, and then
he opens the cages of the animals and lets them
all out. So this was Jesus's mission, right, and he
came to oppose this temple cult. And this is all ignored,
like the fact that Jesus was this brash. I mean
to me, it's so gangster to go into the belly
of the beast and to pose it to its face
when it's like, you know, you don't do that and

(17:13):
live in his day, he knew he was going to
be martyred for this cause, and he still found it
worth doing. And would you believe alex In our earliest gospel,
Greek gospel Mark, it says in Mark eleven eighteen, after
Jesus cleanses the temple, it says, after Jesus did these things,
the priests sought how they would put him to death.
And then a few days later he gets crucified, and

(17:34):
we're told, oh, it's because he was God and claimed
to be God. It's like, that's not what the history
shows us. So if you're trying to preach this message
to a gentile Hellenistic Greek world, Okay, try to wrap
your head around this. Let's go back to the first century.
We're in a culture of Jews and Gentiles, and all
the Gentiles are polytheists who naturally believe that lots of
gods come down from heaven and incarnate among us and

(17:57):
do miracles and signs and wonders and then go back
to heaven. Greek, yeah, yeah, you got Apollo's Perseus, many many,
we could name right, Dionysus. They all have similar themes
to Jesus. They're gods in human form, and then they
go back to heaven afterwards. So if you have this
Jewish message of hey, we have this normal man, born
of a man, as Paul says, even born after the flesh,

(18:20):
Paul never says Jesus was God. And it's very clear
that Paul didn't think Jesus was God. So that's another
thing that got twisted from him. But if we're trying
to preach this message to Greek gentiles and say, hey,
you should ditch all your powerful Greek demigods, and come
worship our crucified Messiah. It's like not a very appealing message, right,
So over time, the Gentiles are trying to solve this problem.

(18:41):
So it didn't happen out of malevolence. Right, These Greek
Christian gentiles are trying to appeal to their home people
about this new kind of Jewish religion they've gotten a
part of, and it's not convincing enough. Right, they have
to slowly upgrade Jesus to match the demigods of Hellenism
point for point. So Jesus needs to be born of

(19:01):
a virgin like they were. And so this virgin story
enters in the early second century. That's not in Mark
or John that Paul never mentions. That nobody ever mentions,
except for these two little accounts in Matthew and Luke,
which are irreconcilably different in contradicting to each other. So
it's like some you know, Greek scribes obviously began stuffing
these things in the Bible. The virginity of Mary, the

(19:22):
obfuscation of Mary Magdalen as a whore, all these things
are products of evolving gentile theology. And so that's how
Jesus became God. You've probably heard that phrase. Is Jesus
never said he was God. Jesus came to be the
messenger of God. All of the scriptures are clear that
the Messiah isn't God, but it's the messenger of God.
The New Testament says this over and over. There's just

(19:44):
so much evidence that nobody thought this. In the beginning,
they believe Jesus was anointed at his baptism, as it
shows in the Gospel of Mark, and then later they're like, no,
he was God the whole time. So it's like, Hm,
are we sure that Jesus would have signed off on
that belief because I'm not.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
And also, Jesus never wrote anything down. There's that he
never wrote anything down, so everything is secondhand. And we'll
be right back after a word from our sponsor. And
now back to the show. I saw with my friend

(20:18):
the other day and he pointed to something out that
was really interesting. It's like, you know, when Jesus was
in the desert fighting the temptations at the devil, who
was there to record all this information? Like where did
that story come from? Like it was just him and
the devil apparently, Yeah, so who knows about this story?
Like how did that that story come out like and

(20:39):
all that.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
That's what's interesting is that scholars study this and know
that at the beginning of the Jesus movement, it was
just oral tradition for quite a while. And there's something
that's called they call perrick apes, which were like little
oral orally given messages or stories about Jesus or teachings
of Jesus that are passed down and recycled in synagogues
and in Christian circles for you know, a couple of

(21:00):
decades before we have the Greek Gospels being written, and
we know that the Greek Gospels are definitely pulling from
some earlier Semitic sources, likely Aramaic or Hebrew. And we have,
for example, the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, which is the
oldest written record of Jesus. That twelve of our early

(21:21):
church fathers, the who's who of church fathers origin Jerome, Saint, Augustine, Eusebius, Hegesippus, Epiphanius,
all of them say that the disciple Matthew himself, the
tax collector, wrote down the teachings of the Lord in
the Hebrew dialect for the sake of those who believed,
and so many scholars who study this daated as early

(21:42):
as thirty three AD to fifty a d.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
So it's like right fresh.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Oh yes, yeah. And the cool thing is this really
checks out historically that Matthew could have done this because
Matthew was a tax collector, and so he would have
been if anyone in the group was literate, which we
know Peter and John were not. Acts four thirteen I
says they were both a grammatose is the Greek word
which means unlettered. They could not read or write, but

(22:06):
Matthew might have been able to because he was a
tax collector. Sure, so he's got to write down tax
records in Hebrew. So it says Matthew wrote the First
Account of Jesus, and the Church fathers had it available
to them in that day because the Nazarenes and the
other Jewish Christian groups was the only gospel they read.
And there's only forty eight surviving quotes from it because
the Roman Catholic Church eventually banned it, burned it, tried

(22:28):
to get rid of it from history. But in even
the forty eight quotes, we have that the Church fathers
are quoting in like the second and third century. It
is a wildly different picture of Jesus, who's opposing animal sacrifice,
flesh consumption, opposing the priestly cult. And it shows Jesus
was anointed at his baptism, and it says the dove

(22:48):
in the earliest record, the dove goes into Jesus's heart,
it doesn't come perch on his shoulder, and it says,
this is my beloved son. This day I have begotten THEE.
And our oldest copies of Mark as well, were first
written this day I have begotten THEE. So that's the
idea of it's called adoptionism. It means that these early Christians,

(23:10):
the very first twelve disciples and followers of Jesus, the
whole Nazarene group, believed that he was the adopted anointed Messiah.
That's what Hamashiach means. By the way, it's anointed one,
which means you're anointed by someone else. So Jesus can't
be God if he's anointed by God. But then what
happens Catholic theology of alves and they say, oh, no,
Jesus wasn't anointed the Messiah. He was God from the beginning.

(23:33):
And so later, the later manuscripts we have of Mark
and some of our Gospels changed that they took out
this day I have begotten THEE and they put in
this is my beloved Son, in whom I'm well pleased.
So none of this stuff has ever taught to us
in church, right, Oh, everything we're hearing in church services
was not believed by the very first Christians. And I

(23:54):
just think, like, if we want to get as close
to Jesus as possible, right, which I do, and I
assume most people would say they, why would we not
study the earliest Christian tradition, which again all the historians
agree the very first Christians were not called Christians. They
were called Nazarenes. And there's another name called Jesseans, which
is the father of David from the Natsari tradition. So

(24:15):
it's kind of two ways of saying the same thing.
They believe the Messiah was of the lineage of David,
so they were the nuts, sorry, the Nazarenes from Isaiah
eleven tying Jesus back to scripture and all of that's
been deleted, right, So I feel like, if we love Jesus,
we should want to know where he really came from
this Acene type of Judaism. What did they believe in practice?
And I'm telling you, I mean, you've studied it, right, Alex.

(24:36):
When you start to dig into the especially the comparisons
of like the Dead Sea Scrolls with the Book of Acts,
You're like, dude, there's just so point for point, over
and over and over and over, perfect parallels to the
Jesus movement, almost identical in every way, voluntary poverty, baptism, fasting,
opposing the temple, posing sacrifice. And again, the thing that

(24:56):
makes it a dead ringer, and I can't emphasize this enough,
is that all of these beliefs I've just mentioned, not
a single one of them appears in any other Jewish
sect in history but the Ascenes. There is no other
Jewish sect who practiced baptism as a way of atonement
for sins. They practice baptism, but just as ritual purification.

(25:18):
They did not believe you could baptize yourself to have
God forgive your sins. But Jesus is preaching that in
the New Testament. John the Baptist is preaching that in
the New Testament, whose scholars pretty much are in universal agreement.
John the Baptist had to have been in a scene
he matches point for point, and he's like the mentor
of Jesus. Right, So all of these twelve different lines
of evidence are unique to the Asnes, and we see

(25:39):
all of them in Jesus. And then what is Jesus
doing in the New Testament. He's opposing the Pharisees and
the Sadducees at almost every turn, So you're going to
have a hard time arguing that Jesus was a Pharisee
or a Sadducee. And we know there was basically only
three or maybe four you could say, Jewish sects at
that time, Pharisee, Sadducees scenes, and a kind of offshoot

(26:02):
of these scenes called the Zealots, who are more of
like a warlike type of.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
A scene, hence the name Zealot.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah. So, and many of his followers were Zelots, right,
Simon the Zelot. So it's like there's literally no other option.
If we exclude Pharisee and Sadducee, then what other tradition
could Jesus have come from? Like that's a pretty obvious
piece of evidence too, but there's just so much more
that we can put together to show this case.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
So let me ask you with the Bible. I had
a conversation with another guest about this, and I would
love to get your thoughts about this. Is that there's
the New Testament the Old Testaments, very different, very two
different books, and they see from day night from day,
and they seem to be jammed together into what we

(26:43):
call now the Bible. They don't seem to match, they
don't seem to like it's literally two parts. It's it's
Harry Potter had a lot more consistency, consistency, you know,
than the Bible did. But the big thing was that
Jesus was teaching his teachings were completely opposite to Yahweh,

(27:06):
and that what he was saying His argument was that
Jesus did not did not follow Yahweh. That was not
his God, and he never never wants in the New
Testament did he mention Yahweh by name.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
This is what Gnos said, right, and.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
That there's just two different You have a God who's
vengeful and murder and killing, and you have to pay
homage to me. And he's obviously a very insecure god,
very angry god. I mean, he's a completely yeah, he's
not the God that I hope is out there. And
then we got Jesus, who's about peace and love and

(27:48):
follow your name, you know, beca a nice kind and
turn the other cheek and all this kind of thing.
They don't mix. So that alone is such a red
flag for me to think about, like, well, wait a minut.
If the Bible technically should be about it's supposed to
be about the Jesus. Is if it's the Bible that
all the Christians read, it should be about Jesus's teachings.

(28:11):
But the first half of it is the Torah. Yeah,
that has truly not anything to do other than a
couple of things that they threw in there as a
He's coming kind of thing, kind of like there's someone coming,
almost like a teaser for the sequel. So they don't mix.
So from your understanding, do you agree with that analysis
of that that these are just two completely different worlds.

(28:35):
You know, it's like Star Wars and Harry Potter coming together.
I'm like, look, man, this doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, you're on a really important thread here. Actually, this
is something we can unpack to even see this issue
in a bigger way. You can't just group two totally
different traditions together and call it one cohesive message. Right.
The Old Testament that the Tanach is a Jewish text, right,

(29:01):
And the New Testament is definitely a Greek Hellenistic text.
It was written in Greek. It has tons of Platonism
all throughout. It has a lot of Gnosticism in it too,
by the way, and it's very very anti Semitic. The
Book of Acts and most of the Gospels are except
for Matthew would be one exception, like the Jews are
being blamed for Jesus's death all throughout the New Testament

(29:25):
because they're basically these Greek polemics against the Jews. They
were trying to blame the Jews for crucifying Jesus, which
again historians also know is not true at all. The
Romans did it, of course in the New Testament, like
the Gospel account. It's kind of funny. It's like the
Jews are like telling the Romans what to do, like Cruz,
come on, you crucify him, and they're like, okay, fine,
Jews will do it. It's like no, no, no, no, no. First

(29:47):
of all, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
I don't think they had that kind of power.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
That's not how it works.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Roman didn't do that.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
The Jewish, the High Priest and the priestly cult in
Jerusalem were like just the little whipping servant boys of
the Romans. Like they did whatever the Romans said. They
would not keep their positions, as in the Sanhedrin, for
a moment if they opposed Rome. So they were literally
just a tool of Rome. So even if you say
the priest did it, that's because Rome told them to.

(30:13):
But it's like nobody told Rome what to do. Rome
absolutely delighted in crucifying people as often as they could.
They couldn't get enough death and crucifixion. So you think,
if they have this guy who's dangerous and you know,
causing a stir, that ponscious Pilot was a very wicked man.
He was not a peace loving philosopher like the New
Testament portrays. History shows. He was a nasty human being

(30:36):
and he loved to kill and punish people, and so
he probably sent Jesus to his crucifixion with glee and delight.
But that's not what we see in the New Testament.

Speaker 1 (30:46):

Speaker 2 (30:55):
So in any case, back to your question, what do
you get when you try to stick a Jewish book
with a Hellenistic book, you get a contradictory message. You
cannot square them right. They don't work together. Either one
is true or the other is true. And so the
Gnostics again were the first kind of Greek Christian tradition
or movement rather that really rose up to power because

(31:18):
in those days, scholars know Christianity man in the Greek
world was the wild wild West. Back then there were
so many like way more than that we see now,
way less unity than we see now, so many different
view points of Jesus. There's different communities, the Thomasine community,
the Johanna and Mathian Markan communities, and they all have
different ideas about Jesus. And that's what the four Gospels

(31:40):
actually are, by the way, is its most likely different
communities around the Mediterranean region and the Greek world. It's
their sort of testimony of what they believe Jesus was.
And so when you start with Mark, the oldest gospel,
and you go Matthew, Luke John, you get four completely
different types of Jesus. So when people say I I
believe in Jesus, I'll say which one, because there's four

(32:03):
very different Jesus. I mean, the Jesus of Mark is
uncomparable to the Jesus of John, who's just walking around
claiming to be God. And in Mark, Jesus is like,
sh don't tell anybody, don't call me good. Only God
is good. And then he doesn't read there's no resurrection
account in Mark. Like it's a very different Jesus story.
So this is part of the product, as I was saying,
of the Greeks trying to sort of hijack this Jewish movement,

(32:27):
the Nazarene movement, and make it into their own Hellenistic
type of model. And so scholars study this, and eventually
the Gnostics came along saying, look, this Old Testament God
cannot be the same God that Yeshua preached, as you said,
and so they believed famously, the Gnostics that Yahweh was
a demi urge in disguise, a demon basically posing as yeah,

(32:52):
oh yeah. This was why the Gnostics were deemed heretical,
because look, the Orthodox Catholic Church, the let's called the
Orthodox Church. The word Catholic didn't come around till like
the fourth century the Orthodox Christian Church. They had to
keep the Jewish scriptures why to ground that Jesus was
the Messiah, Because all of the Messianic prophecies come from

(33:14):
the Jewish Bible. Right, So if they want to keep
all that and say he was prophesied, the scriptures prove
it he really was the Messiah, they need those Jewish scriptures.
But then they're going to have their Hellenistic philosophies in
the New Testament, which directly opposed the Old Testament. Again,
just like the message of Jesus, the Old Testament is
abundantly clear in numerous passages, repent and God forgives you.

(33:37):
God doesn't need perfect behavior, as Christians say, well, Aaron,
no one can be righteous for their whole life. Eventually
you're going to sin and then you're worthy of eternal
health fire. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This has no there's
no appearance of this message in the Jewish Bible. This
idea is found nowhere in the Tanakh. This is exclusively
a Christian Western message that is not in the Bible.

(33:58):
The Bible is clear that if you repent, God for
it gives you, and that's the same message Jesus was teaching.
But if you want to say Jesus was your blood atonement,
you have to get rid of that repentance message and
say no, no, no, we're all unrighteous, we're all evil and
totally depraved. All we can do is confess Jesus. And
that's where Paul becomes a convenient figure to craft that
theology from.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
As a storyteller. I'm looking at this now with my
storyteller eyes, yes, and story structure eyes, and basically without
the Old Testament, kind of like teeing up Christ's arrival.
It doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
It doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
You need the prequel. You need the prophecy. You got
it that there's one that will reunite the force, you know,
or else there's no Luke Skywalker. There's no Anakin Skywalker
to become Darth Vader. So you need that kind of calling,
almost a heralding. Yes, you need a heralding of this
is coming. Without that, and we just start the story

(34:53):
of one day they're in.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
A desert and right, it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Doesn't And there's no larger kind of gravitass.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yeah, there's no grounding to it.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, there's Yeah, it's just like a dude that shows
up and starts creating havoc. Well, you need to build
that story up. And how do you build that story up.
Let's go back. It was prophesied that yes, show up
for hundreds of years and look, and there's some entire
bibles talk about it, you know, so really kind of
establishing that you're saying it grounds it, meaning like you've
gone back to a source that everyone's like, oh, if

(35:26):
it's in there, then it must be real. So they
needed it for credibility they did.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
They needed street cred exactly.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
They need a street cred The Bible needed street cred.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yes, And so here's what they did. Here's how they
squared this circle to try to offfuscate the obvious fact
that the Hebrew Bible totally opposes the normal Christian message
of blood, atonement and salvation. There's also you can support
it with it, but I could just pull out versus
all day. They just nuke Christian theology, like if this
Versus as an errant and infallible as this verse is,

(35:57):
we've got a big problem because they contradict each other.
But here how they solved the problem is they said, well, yes,
Jesus was a Jew who came from the Jewish tradition.
That's all true, but the Jews rejected him brother, and
so they get what's coming to him, and the message
was transitioned to the gentiles, and that's where Paul came in, right.
Paul became obsessed with his own little private visions of Jesus.

(36:21):
And Paul himself doesn't claim this in his letters, but
the Book of Acts documents this, So it might have
been the going idea at the time that Jesus appeared
to Paul privately in a private vision and he said, Paul,
you're my specially chosen apostle to the Gentiles. To you,
I will send to the nations to bring my message
to the non Jewish world. And then Paul gets converted.

(36:43):
In all that and the whole Book of ax Man.
From a scholarship perspective, it's so wacky because Paul's letters
totally contradict what's in the Book of Acts so many
different occasions. But there's even just some really weird stuff that,
if it does trace back to true legends or stories
of Paul, I find to be very problematic. And the

(37:04):
first one is, I can't remember if it's acts nine
or twelve. But Paul is speaking with private Jesus and
he's like, oh, can I go to Jerusalem to meet
with your twelve disciples, your apostles, And Jesus is like, Paul,
don't go to my apostles man and tell him about
this message because they won't believe you about me. But
keep it to yourself. It's like, okay, So if a

(37:25):
demon was trying to deceive a man, hey, I'm Jesus,
listen to my message, and was trying to distort the
teachings of Yeshua. Because look, you and I can agree
on this right. The negative polarity, if we want to
call it that, the forces of darkness, the devil lucifer.
It wants to off you, skate truth at all costs.
If a true message from God ever comes to humanity

(37:48):
through a person, through a book, whatever, you know for
sure that the negative polarity is going to be trying
to distort that thing as soon as possible because they
don't want truth to proliferate or they lose power. So,
if Jesus really did come to bring a true message
from God, this is the way to eternal life. Love
God with all your heart. Love your neighbor as yourself. Okay,
that'd be like the last thing that the dark powers

(38:11):
spiritual powers want humanity to know. They need to bring
it back to a negative soteriology, which is no, no, no. See,
the problem is you can't do that. You can't be righteous,
so you're evil, You're totally depraved, and you need to
appease God's wrath with a blood and meat sacrifice. It's like, oh,
so God is like Satan in that Satan requires blood
magic for you know, this is classic black magic is

(38:33):
blood magic. So God's like Satan. God also needs blood
like the devil does. That's very strange to me, right,
So why would Jesus tell Paul don't go to my disciples,
the closest men to me, my own brothers, even some
of them.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Which they would have he would have if he appeared
to Paul, he could easily appear to.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Them, exactly. Couldn't have appeared to them in private visions
and told.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Them ul coming.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah, he's cool, he's with me.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
He's me, he's cool. Listen to him. He's gonna be
he's on our team.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
It's a simple email.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
There's so many ways you could pull problems out here.
But it's like Yeshuah would definitely never tell somebody don't
go do my disciples, But looks like that's what a
demon would want to tell somebody.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
But let me ask you Aaron, though, Like with all
of this, there is obvious Even as a first grader
when they were teaching me, I was already pulling out
things going this what Yeah, there's just so many plot
holes that even a first grader, five year old or
six year old can ask questions about. And then God
forbid if you ask a question and they're like, we
don't talk about those things. Yeah, how can this Bible

(39:41):
or this story be so it prolificates so much throughout humanity,
with so many inaccuracies and contradictions and plot holes that
it doesn't make any sense if you are critical, if
you just look with an intelligently critical eye at these stories.

(40:02):
We've pointed out dozens already, and just this conversation, yea,
that there's like, well that doesn't make sense with this,
and that doesn't make sense with that. It just it
seems like everyone just drank the kool aid. No pun intended,
They literally just drank the kool aid throughout centuries, you know,
throughout thousands of years, you know, hundreds of thousands of
you know what I mean, thousands of years. We'll be

(40:24):
right back after a word from our sponsor, and now
back to the show. And it's still revermenating today. And
there's still a power structure today with the Catholic Church,
which I've discovered too, that that was Rome. Rome didn't fall,

(40:45):
just turned into the Catholic Church because's where all the
money went and the power went and so on. So
it's maintained this thing. But yet anyone with two cents
in their head who's even somewhat critical, or not even critical,
just curious, we look at these stories and just go
the Old Testament conmics has nothing to do with the
New Testament Jesus. That one thing should debunk a lot

(41:09):
of the stuff that they're trying to put out. So
how did this happen? Is my question to you.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
It's a good question, and largely because most people have
not had the resources to really study this. It was
only Albert Schweitzer the quest for the Historical Jesus. I
believe I'm getting that right, you know, just a few
centuries ago or less than a few centuries ago that
that book came out, and it was the first real like, yeah,

(41:36):
you know, critical, let's study the historical Jesus. And now
that's all that New Testament scholarship really is. It's trying
to parse out they'll call it either the Jesus of
history versus the Jesus of theology, or the one I
like better is the pre Easter Jesus and the post
Easter Jesus, who Jesus was before his death and resurrection

(41:56):
like the real man who lived, and then the legends
about him after his death and resurrection, some of which
are probably true, some of which may not be true.
But how do we parse out the difference? And scholars
are now doing this with textual criticism and all kinds
of really cool methods. But this was not available to
the average person. And it wasn't until the Enlightenment that
people started looking at the Bible with this critical eye

(42:16):
and saying, why don't we study this from an academic
perspective and not just a religious perspective. And the Church
fathers for thousands of years have been trying to deal
with these questions, and that's why they wrote these super
long literary works like the Panarian and stuff and against heresies.
They're writing these enormous volumes of literature to address all

(42:37):
of the problems and contradictions in their belief system in
the textual tradition. People had questions in those days even
of like, hey, you know, but Mark and matthews birth
accounts don't line up, and there are none of the
resurrection accounts line up, and so the church fathers are like, well,
here's a good explanation. It's like four different eyewitness accounts
of the same event, and like horrible arguments like that.

(42:58):
So this is why the average person and until recent times,
is just not They haven't had access to anything. Really.
Even some of these church fathers, like Jerome, for crying
out loud, his works weren't even translated into English until
I think like a hundred or something years ago. And
Jerome is where we get most of the proofs we
have of the Nazarene movement. The Hebrew Gospel of Matthew
wasn't even available to English speakers until like a century ago.

(43:21):
So now is the time that the lies are coming
to the surface, and truth is coming to light, and
the original way of Jesus is being finally seen by
the world and understood that, Hey, what Christianity teaches today
is a far cry, and in my experience and belief
on this is a very blasphemous cry apart from what

(43:43):
Jesus actually taught. I think Jesus would be offended by
today's Christian theology. That he's God and it was his
blood that God had to murder him to forgive people
like you. Said, that cannot be different, more different than
the God revealed in Jesus, who taught about humility, enemy, love, forgiveness.
And Jesus said, man, don't you dare come confess me

(44:03):
as Lord Lord? If you don't obey my commandments, why
do you call me Lord Lord and not do what
I say? And to the people who do come to
him and say, Lord Lord, we prophesied in your name,
we did mighty miracles in your name. Are we permitted
entry into your kingdom? Jesus says, I will look at
those people and say to them, get away from me,

(44:23):
you who practice evil, For I never knew you. For
when I was hungry, you did not feed me. When
I was thirsty, you didn't give me a drink, and
so on, and then he turns to his other followers
who did that, and says, and when you did love
the least of these, you did it unto me. So
he's saying, you better see me and everybody. So there's
christ consciousness done. And he's saying, and if you try

(44:44):
to call me your lord but you don't obey my commandments,
I don't care. It means nothing to me. And yet
Christianity today literally preaches the opposite. They say, you can't
obey his commandments, it's impossible. You can only confess him
his lord and go to heaven when you die. And
it's like they took this amazing, real life message of
Jesus that meets us in the human experience right, that
teaches us how to walk in righteousness as Jesus did,

(45:07):
and they watered it all down to this boring, uninspiring
message of your evil and you can just confess Jesus.
And again I find that to be a travesty to
the amazing salvation teachings of the man Yeshua, the Nazarene,
who deserves to speak for himself and not constantly have
Paul's words stuffed into his mouth.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Now that you said the term lord to my understanding
and please correct me wrong. I've recently had a conversation
about the King James Bible, which is the Bible that
we basically in the West is what we use essentially,
but no one ever questions like who the hell is
King James and how did this Bible get built? Because

(45:49):
the King James Bible is very different than older versions
of the Bible, the Ethiopian Bible and unfar the older
back and the term lord, from my understanding, please correct me,
I from wrong, comes from the King James Bible because
I don't know, and please correct me. This is what
I heard. Yeah, that the term lord was something that

(46:09):
the king had put in to the King James Bible
because it helped reinforce the monarchy. And he also said
to remove anything that could be used against the monarchy
in that version of the Bible. Am I is that correct?

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah? I think you're essentially correct. I don't study Greek.
I only study Hebrew, and so I think the Greek
word is curios. Lord is curios, and I'm not sure
what the etymology of that is. Okay, but it is
funny you bring up King James as like, you know,
he's the gold standard for the English Bible. Yet it's like,
do we know who this man was? Not that like
he himself put it together, but he had, you know,

(46:44):
scribe mission, he commissioned it. Yeah. Yeah, But we can
do this. We can ask the same questions of people
like Paul and Emperor Constantine. It's like, Okay, let's go
through our minds and think of all the people that
we know of in history who have appealed to their
own private visions to ground their arguments and believes. We've
got Paul the Apostle on whose teachings.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
He wasn't an apostle.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Sorry, apostate is what I mean.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
It was an apostle, right, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
I just want to make actually, and I love Paul
like I think he was a well meaning guy. I
think I think he was an overt narcissist who was
obsessed with his own teachings. And his writings are like
a narcissistic handbook. It's like the perfect ancient world depiction
of a narcissist. He never stops talking about himself, He boasts.

(47:31):
He uses the word boast about himself I think forty
six times in his seven letters, just like Jesus did. Right,
all the time.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Right, he talked about himself constantly.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Like that, bragging about his accomplishments. God Paul's appealing to
his private visions NonStop, and like, guys believe me. It's like, okay,
so I just have to believe anybody who has a
private vision. I don't believe in Mohammed's private visions, right,
I don't believe in Joseph Smith's private visions.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
I don't believe in it, any of these private visions of.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Maybe some of those I believe, yeah, exactly, but you
know what I mean. But it's like I don't believe
in though I don't believe in Constantine's private vision, I
don't believe in David Koresh's private visions.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
All of these men, Jones, Jim Jones.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Like all these men who appeal to their private visions
are amongst the most evil human beings who've ever lived.
I wouldn't put Mohammed in that category, of course, but
I think Muhammad had some problems for sure. But like Constantine,
David Koresh, Jim Jones, like this not good company to
be in. And the thing is, truth doesn't need private

(48:35):
subjective visions and experiences to prove itself. Proof is epistemic.
It's obvious, it can be proven through the laws of logic.
And this is what when you run Paul's message of
salvation through an epistemic process of logic and you run Jesus',
it's like Paul's message falls apart at the seams immediately.

(48:55):
You cannot justify it, this whole idea of blood atonement.
I've done many episodes on this on my YouTube channel.
It's like, it's laughably unjustifiable to say that God is omnipotent,
which all Christians raise their hands and say, Amen, Brother,
God has all power. You say, okay, then how do
you give a God something who already has everything? What

(49:16):
can blood do for God? Does? Does blood give God
permission to forgive?

Speaker 1 (49:21):
That's a materialistic thing, Yeah, it's it's a three dimensional thing.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
God needs some three dimensional juice to forgive people, which
has to come by way of killing. That's strange. And
forgiving is like does forgiveness mean anything if you need
an act of violence to do it? So like Paul's
message just gets shredded by logic. Jesus's message is just ah,
it's just beautifully logically consistent. It's all the onus is

(49:46):
on you, my friend. You have to love God with
your heart and prove that by loving your neighbor as yourself.
You've got to show that you want to be righteous
with your life or nothing else really matters. And the
thing I love about this, which I know you love, Alex,
is near experiences.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,

Speaker 2 (50:12):
NDEs flatly debunk Paul Aine theology and completely validate and
prove Jesus's gospel message that we are judged according to
our works, not just our faith alone. Five times Alex
in the New Testament, once in Matthew, once in John
three times in the Book of Revelations, Jesus is quoted
as saying I will judge everyone according to their works

(50:36):
five times. And Christians ignore that and say, no, no, it's
what Paul said. It's just faith alone, not by works.
And what do people say, Alex who die and have
an afterlife experience. Do they come back saying, you know,
I was shown that I just didn't confess Jesus, not one,
not one. What did they say, Alex, Uh, there was
nothing but love yep.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
On the other side, it's pure love. They're connected to
the entire scope of the universe. Anything they ask is
instantly there, so it's like they're there. They're basically I
always call it, they're plugged into the cloud. They have
infinite information as opposed to having to our hard work
can have it. There is no religion whatsoever. Jesus does

(51:17):
show up sometimes, but so does Mohammad some, so does Krishna,
so does your fifth grade science teacher. Sometimes, Grandpa obviously
your grandpa, Grandma, your animals show up, but it's it's
nothing to do with that. The understanding of the understanding
I have with life reviews is that there is no
judgment because it's you. It's just you, you looking at

(51:38):
your own things. And what I love love about near
death experienced life review is that you feel what you
were doing to the other person and how you were
feeling it.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
As yourself, as yourself scene.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
So if I curse you right now and make you
feel bad in the life review, we would be thrown
right back into that scene, this scene right here, and
I would feel how I made you feel. Yes, so
anything I do upon you will come back to me. Hence,
now we're going into the Vedic texts.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
No, no, no, dude, we're going into what Jesus said
too that right exactly, and Luke six thirty seven, Jesus
teaches this law explicitly. He says, judge, and you will
be judged, yep, condemned, and you'll be condemned. Forgive and
you'll be forgiven. And then here it is he says,
for the measure you give will be the measure you
get back. And he says the same thing in Matthew.
And so we look at near death experiences, these life reviews,

(52:30):
and Alex, what have I said? Okay, Alex, what if
you knew for sure as a fact, when you die
one day you will have to watch back every moment
of your life, but you will experience what happened from
the lens of the other person that you did those
things too. So the people you hurt, you will experience
every ounce of their pain. If you knew that that
judgment day was coming, and it's not really a judgment, right,

(52:52):
because it's just your own experience, but if you knew
that was coming, And I said, what would be the
best possible advice to give such a person to make
sure that that life review is a wonderful experience. I
think you would have to say something like do unto
others as you wish they would do unto you, because
if you live by the Golden rule, you won't have
anything to worry about in your life. Review. No, exactly,

(53:15):
that's the gospel of Jesus Man.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Exactly it. And that's that's the brilliance of it, the
simplicity of it. And there's I think now there's just
so much more information coming out. There's conversations like this,
and there's books, and there's movies, and there's things that
are starting to really bring out this kind of truth
that in all honesty, you know, the stuff that we're

(53:37):
talking about here is not about control. So religion in general,
organized religion is about control a middleman, and it's usually
a man, a middle man between you and a god,
a higher power. Where these ideas that we're talking about
now and the true teachings of Yeshua are about the

(54:01):
power being within yourself and self empowerment and self enlightenment
and all of that stuff, putting the oldness on you,
the pressure on you, and not on an outside source.
I don't see what's wrong.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
With that, because there isn't anything wrong with that it's
just not controllable.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
You can't control. Yeah, Like, if I'm an enlightened soul
walking around the earth and I feel comfortable within my
own skin, and I understand that I have a connection
with a higher power, and I am part of that
higher power, a spark of the divine, walking around, learning
and growing and experiencing things and trying to be kind
to other people and do unto others as you would
do on yourself, and the Kingdom of Heaven is within you.

(54:41):
All of this stuff. I do not see a thing
wrong with it, nor do I see an argument for
it period, anyone arguing against it. It seems to me
that they're just still trying to hold on to old
dogma because if it shakes their reality, then their foundation
gets scared, and that's when war happened, That's when violence happens.

(55:01):
That's so it's always been that way. My God is
much better than your God. I have to kill you
now because you don't believe it makes sense. It's cortes,
it's all of it, you know, it's all of that
kind of stuff. So I don't see the problem with it,
and having a problem with self empowerment because there's no
controlling someone who's self empowered, and that I think where
is where we're talking about here. So people listening and watching,

(55:23):
I just hope that they understand that everything we've been
talking about for nearly an hour now is about self empowerment.
That is what Yesha talked about, and that's what all
of these masters talked about. Not one of these masters,
either in the Vedic traditions, in the Eastern traditions, even
in the Western traditions. These other masters who talk about

(55:44):
self empowerment about love about it. It's just echoes different
flavors of what Jesus talked about and what Buddha talked about.
It's all very different, but it's all about self empowerment,
which is different. Now. I want to ask you, man,
because I don't think I've ever asked you this question
about Jesus. Jesus is twelve YadA, YadA, YadA, he rides

(56:06):
in on a donkey. I like to know what you
think happened in the YadA YadA, YadA years. Yeah, the
eighteen years, because that's a big debate and it was
one of my biggest questions as a kid growing up.
I'm like, what happened to him. Was I want to
know about Jesus the Teenager. Yeah, I want to know
where was he? Was he? Where was he training? What
was he was? He? Was he in Egypt? Was he
in India? Was he in Tibet? Was he was he?

(56:27):
Just like? Where did he go? He had to have
gone somewhere. Yeah, there's there's historical proof of Egypt. There's
a lot of anadotal proof of India and Tibetan, these
kind of things. I'd love to hear what you've discovered.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
I think we did go into did we have a
lot of conversation remember the Nicholas Notovich book where Tibetan text.
I think we did go into this.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Okay, so let's let let's go into a little bit
more because I don't remember it. So, okay, a little bit.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
So there was a text written by a guy named
Nicholas Notovich who was a Russian explorer.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Now remember, yeah, and he said he found something into bed.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Yeah, he found a text. The story's really cool. It's
on the last podcast, so we can go watch it.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
But he discovers a text, an ancient Tibetan text that
was purportedly written by scribes who were documenting this man Issa,
which is like the Aramaic name of Yeshua, and they
describe his journeys out of Jerusalem around thirteen years old,
and he goes to like Samaria, which I think were
the Zoroastrians. He goes to India with the Brahmins, and

(57:30):
he then he goes to Tibet with the Tibetan Lamas,
and he went to one another. There's four He was
an egypt thank you. Yes, And that's actually in the Bible.
By the way, it does say that Mary, Joseph, and
Jesus fled to Egypt in one of the Gospels.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Isn't there Isn't there a place you can go in
Egypt to visit where he like, there's the house.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Probably there's a house.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
This is where Jesus.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
There are in India too.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Oh no, in India, Jesus is renowned as oh Yogi,
like a grand master Yogi in India, so he's very
well known in India, which a lot of people don't
understand it. Yeah. Yeah, and it was there before the Crusades,
yeah kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Yeah. Well, there's a criterion in scholarship. I'm forgetting the
name of it, but it's something like the criterion of similarity,
which is like when you see a consistent message or
even like personality trait strongly coming out of a certain
figure in more than one source, then there's good reasons
for believing that that's a very historically true side of

(58:27):
that person's personality or their message or whatever it is.
And when you study Jesus, there's one thing that's very
clear from all the synoptics is that he had no
issue pointing out hypocrisy and waving his finger in the
face of hypocrites, especially the religious clergy of the day,
because he couldn't stand the hypocrisies like you guys are

(58:47):
up here pretending to be the most you know, with
love everybody. Yeah, like religious devout people, and you're like
the most wicked of all. And so he's just lambasting
the Pharisees all through the Old the New Testament. And
when you read the nick Us Notovich book text, it
chronicles his visits to these four different places, and I
think all three except for Tibet, so three out of four.

(59:09):
He it's the same kind of story. He goes to
the Zoroastrians and he eventually gets kicked. He gets pissed
off at them because they're teaching people to worship the
sun as a god. And he's like, don't you know
who makes the sun to fall and rise? It's the
one true God and you're teaching polytheism and stuff. And
his followers are like, hey, they're coming to kill you. Man,
you munt want to bounce, and so he leaves Samaria

(59:30):
and then he goes to India, and he eventually starts
confronting the Brahmins who were forcing the common people in
the caste system to make idols and figurines, kind of
like those. They were huge in those days, and it
was like slave labor. And he's basically like, you guys
are subjugating the very children of God and who's ruach.
The spirit of God dwells in these people, and you're

(59:51):
making them work slave hours and wages to make figurines
that God is not present inside of the ruak. God
is not in your hypocrites, Like, we're going to kill you.
You can't say that, And he bounces and leaves from India,
and then same thing happened in Egypt, and eventually he
settles in Tibet, where they're actually somewhat tapped in like
he is and like, oh, this is like a true master,

(01:00:12):
and they let him live with them for like six years,
he studies the Tibetan arts, and then he eventually leaves
and goes back to his homeland. So that's what the
Nicholas Notovich book says. And there's actually some other historical evidence.
There's a book called Jesus in India that's really good
that I read, that has a lot of proofs to
back up the Notovich story.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
But it's you know, the text isn't available, so we
can't prove that it's then Nicholas, Yeah, it's he was
allowed to copy it into English to transcribe it, but
they all their manuscripts have to stay in the Tibetan monastery.
They didn't let him take the manuscript, you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Know, so it's not available online anywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
The book is. Yeah, but the man the Tibetan Manucy, Yeah,
which is what scholars would be interested in, is like,
let's get that actual manuscript, but it's still in a
monastery somewhere into.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Bed That's that's insane.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
We might be able to get it though. I have
some friends of mine who were working on it. Oh yeah,
it would just be cool if we could.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Well, I mean there's a lot of I mean, even
the Dalai Lama said, He's like, yeah, Jesus was here,
you know, like he said it, he said it years ago.
And then there was a hailstar and he's like, oh, okay, okay,
everyone calm the hell down. Yeah, everyone, please please calm
the hell down. I mean, we can go.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
On and on and on about we literally could, I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Literally on and on about. Yes, one last thing about
Yeshua before we move into your into the three beliefs
of the ego. The term Jesus. That's not his name. No,
his name is Yeshua with a why if I'm mistaken, right,
I've heard this is what I've heard and what I studied.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. That the

(01:01:51):
term Jesus comes from the original Zeus, because Zeus, Jesus
Zeus kind of thing. Where does that name I'm from?

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Yeah, I've heard that too, and then I've also heard
it debunked.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Okay, yeah, so where does it come?

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
So I'm not totally sure, but it's a Greek rendering
of the Hebrew Yeshua, yeah, Jesus, yes Shoa. It's the
way that Greek works when you translated to Hebrew. Is
probably is kind of problematic. A similar problem would be
like the spelling of the Nazarenes. The church fathers over
like four centuries who are writing about this Jewish Christian

(01:02:27):
Nazarene sect out in the trans Jordan. They have the
exact same beliefs for four hundred, five hundred years, without
almost any wiggle room at all. They're in this same
exact region in the trans Jordan, in the Pella kind
of Pella region, and all these church fathers are writing
about them Ireneus in the second century, Jerome the fifth century,
and they're all spelling it differently. Nazarios like Nazarrean's different

(01:02:52):
little English renderings of the Greek because they don't know
how to exactly spell it from Hebrew to Greek, right,
So everyone's taking their own shot at it, and there's
different spellings over the centuries. This is what happens with
any language over time. If we go back, for example,
and read an English book from two hundred years ago,
like don't you think alex we'd be able to tell
this is written in eighteen hundreds.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Probably, Oh yeah, because of the very.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Obviously right, so scholars can can follow Greek in the
same way and watch the I think it's called morphology,
the study of how language is shaped and changes over time.
And so Christians, famously, the only response I ever get
from even like west Huff is they'll try to say, oh,
those Nazarene, they're all different sects because look they're spelled differently.
It's like, no, they're in the same exact region. Every time.

(01:03:37):
They have the same exact beliefs. Every time they claim
to be the original followers of Jesus. Every time it's
the same group. The Nazarene Church of Jesus survived for
five centuries before it was finally wiped out, and it's like,
it's such a travesty to me that it's been lost.
But it's partially because of the languaging of the Greek
from Hebrew and Aramaic. They can do a lot of obfuscation,
such like Nazareth from Nazarene to Nazareth. The Catholic Christian

(01:04:01):
Church tried to make it later, uh not the Nazarene
as a sectarian designation, but Nazareth, So they essentially invented
a town that didn't actually exist.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
What is the earliest original writings of Jesus? Is it
in is it in Arabic? Is it in Hebrew? Or
is it in Greek?

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Oh, it's definitely not in Greek. Okay, It's either Hebrew
or Aramaic, no doubt.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Okay. So with that said, where Jesus was was born
was in the Middle you know, in the Middle East sense.
He is not a white haired, blue eyed, blondheaded guy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Definitely not.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
No, So how did that And can people like get
upset about when you're like, well, of course, I'm like, no,
that's not historically active. He probably was, you know, a
dark skinned you know kind of dude. Where did that turn?
When did that come? It was it in the Roman times.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
When white Church fathers took over the region and that
was the end of that. Yeah, funny enough. Jesus might
have had blue eyes, but he definitely did not have
white skin. He would have had dark Semitic skin. But
there is there is a kind of a lineage that
in the Semitic tradition, even in ancient times, that's documented
of having light eyes or blue eyes, even though they

(01:05:17):
have dark skin. And you still see some Jews like
that today, so it's very possible. And many of the
early written records of Jesus' appearance describe him as having
like grayish blue eyes, like very bright blue eyes. And
almost anyone who's ever channeled and seen Jesus or had
a past life regression or an ND, they all say
he has these really bright blue eyes. So that makes

(01:05:39):
me go, maybe he did have blue historically had blue eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Well, he could have dark skin.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
He was definitely dark skinned.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Yeah. Yeah, And even when people when he appears to
people in near death experiences, he usually appears in the
form that he is known for.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Yeah, they say it looks like a Jewish man. Yeah,
usually stay with blue eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Yeah, generally speaking. And I did tell you my favorite
Das Jesus story, right, I don't know, uh that Jesus.
I call him the hardest working man in show business
because he's always in everybody's indes. But one there was
an atheist who died, and uh, he went and Jesus
showed up to him. But he showed up to him
in a three piece suit with his hair in a

(01:06:18):
ponytail nice, and he goes, GQ Jesus, basically GQ Jesus.
And he turns to Jesus in his near death experience.
He's like, are you He knew who loved Jesus, but
he didn't believe, and he goes, are you Jesus? He
goes yeah, he goes, why are you dressed that way?
He goes, Oh, well, you wouldn't take me seriously if
I was dressed any other way? Smart in that A

(01:06:40):
great story in that great like He's like, if he
would have come in the you know, the robes and
all that stuff that were like what is this? But
because he was dressed in a way that made sense
to that soul, it was. It was. It's pretty brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
I love it. Jesus has so many good one liners
in DS.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Oh No, he's a he's a he's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
He's sharp at attack, man.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
I mean, he's he's got good he's got a good writing.
He is he is a good sense of humor about
the whole thing. Yeah, the the Jesus, the Jesus thing
is is an endless debate, will continue to be an
endless debate. But but I'm always glad to hear your
your point of view on all of that. Man, Now

(01:07:20):
let's talk about your book, The Three Beliefs of Ego.
Ego has gotten a bad rap. Everyone's like, we need
to crush the ego. We need to get rid of
the ego, and you know, and be enlightened. When you're enlightened,
fully you there is no ego but to my understanding,
and I would love to hear your thoughts. To my understanding,

(01:07:41):
the ego is not only needed, but it's part of
the experience. Even the masters, all masters, while they're incarnate,
generally speaking, are deal with an ego at different levels
of ego. But the ego is there because without the ego,
you wouldn't have the urge to, you know, maybe go
out to do a mission, or to do work, or

(01:08:04):
to achieve things, because the ego drives all of that.
But it also is there to protect you. So talk
to me about the book, talk to me about The
Sufferer's Guide to Freedom, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Yeah. The take I have on it on this issue
is that the ego needs to be integrated. To transcend
it means to integrate it so that it no longer
is the master, but it becomes the servant type of thing.
You can't kill something that doesn't really exist. The ego
doesn't exist, like you know, an object or something in

(01:08:34):
your mind.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Not the war on drugs.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
But yeah, totally, it's just an idea in the cloud's I.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Can do anything about it, right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
The ego is what I say in the book is
the ego is an activity, not an entity. It's a
mental activity of believing I am a form of some kind.
It's activity of identifying with form I am, this, I
am that, I'm Aaron ab Key, I'm a white man,
et cetera, et cetera. So we have to integrate that

(01:09:01):
by pointing that I I am, which is what the
book talks a lot about, and directing the IM back
to its own source, which is you, the real you,
the true self, as I call it. So you can
never get rid of the eye because I is what
you are. You are the eternal subject, the I am.
Everyone knows themselves as the first person in the present tense,

(01:09:25):
right I am. If you ask me, Aaron, are you hungry?
I would never say you are or they are? You know,
I would say I am because I know myself as
the first person subject in the present tense moment, and
so that is also what God is, right famous story
of Moses at the burning Bush. I am that I

(01:09:46):
am God is the first person in the present tense.
So that's what's real of us, is the consciousness the eye.
So you can't get rid of the eye, but you
can get rid of the me, which is all the
associations you think the eye is.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
And so integration, to me, Alex doesn't mean like I
turn into this spiritual frontal lobotomy patient who's dissociated from
reality and so I'm just happened to we go. I'm
just pure consciousness. I used to sort of think that's
what it was, was the Yogi who goes up to
the mountain to just meditate in a cave the rest
of their life because they've transcended everything. And maybe that's

(01:10:33):
some people's path, sure, but I think the vast majority
of us and I think the Creator doesn't want that
to be the only path of transcendence. The Creator wants
to go deeply into duality, to experience all the contrast
light and dark, light and dark, good and evil, love
and fear so that I can return back to its
oneness with that new understanding and then embody the oneness

(01:10:56):
in the duality. Right, that's the game that the creator's playing.
We're supposed to be in duality. So some of the
Indian teachings, which I love and have studied for a
decade now, I think they can be taken the wrong way,
or we can misapply them, maybe in thinking that the
whole world is just maya, its illusion. It's to be ignored,

(01:11:19):
disregarded and all that. And that's not what the texts
are really saying. They're just saying the world is supposed
to be understood to be fundamentally not real, meaning which
just means it won't last forever. It's a temporary thing,
so don't get attached. But that doesn't mean what you're
experiencing right now isn't real. You're not experiencing it for yeah,

(01:11:42):
exactly like these things should be obvious. But the non
duality teachings can become very toxic to an immature spiritual
mind that hasn't fully seen the real philosophy being pointed at.
It's that this human experience is absolutely as sacred as
anything else it's just a divine in every way. And
in fact, to even say I'm not the body. I

(01:12:05):
used to say that and believe that and try to
integrate that, but now I'm like, you know, it just
doesn't feel true to say that, because what feels more
true is, of course I'm the body. I'm just not
only the body. The body is just not the sum
total of what I am. The body is just a
part of what I am. I am experiencing this body,

(01:12:25):
and I am animating this body, so it's part of
what I am. It's just not the whole of what
I am, which is where the problem lies. And that's
what ego is is. It's the belief that I am
just this body, this separate, isolated character down here in
this earth realm, and it's up to me to make
my way. It's from that belief or self perception that
these three beliefs arise.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
From what are the three beliefs?

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
So the three beliefs are connection. Really it's really one belief,
which is I'm separate. But how does I'm separate really
play out in the human experience?

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
I think we need to get a little more specif
because that can sometimes be ambiguous. How does my belief
in separation appear in my life? It's kind of a
subconscious belief. So when we dice it into these three segments,
you start to see how it plays out in the
human mind. And the first sort of conclusion the ego
comes to after thinking it's a separate being, is it says, well,

(01:13:22):
I am lacking. Then I'm incomplete. There's something missing about
me that I don't have that I should have type
of thing. So every human being comes pre installed with
that belief, and we all believe we're lacking in some way.
We just don't know. We believe it because it's subconscious.
So as soon as I have a lack belief, that
will very quickly become an attachment. Whatever I think I'm lacking, fulfillment, purpose, love, whatever,

(01:13:48):
I will then develop an attachment to that thing and
I will chase it in the world in various forms.
So that's the second belief is the belief in outcome happiness.
I just call it attachment, but it's the belief that
something out there can fulfill me in here. That's the
second belief of ego. And once I have an attachment
to an outcome that I think will fulfill my lack.

(01:14:08):
That creates the third belief, which is I'm the doer,
I'm in control, I make life happen. I'm the one
who bends life to my will. So it's like, if
you are controlling anything in your life, if any kind
of controlling behavior patterns, that's because there's an attachment underneath it, right,
you have an attachment to something that you're trying to

(01:14:30):
control so you can get it. And why do you
have an attachment because you have a lack belief. So
it's really they're all connected in that way. But I
think the most helpful framework in the book and for
me personally, is understanding how those three beliefs connect to
our three negative emotions and the emotional guided system as
it's called. We have three negative emotions sadness, anger, and fear.

(01:14:55):
And this was the conclusion I started to come to
after my awakening experience where I was put into that
state of oneness for two weeks, and then at two
weeks I was thrown out of it and like cast
out of heaven back into my dark knight of the soul.
And I couldn't stay in that state, and so I
started asking myself what is here right now. That wasn't

(01:15:15):
there in that two weeks of inner freedom I experienced,
And I said, well, it's definitely these three emotions sadness,
I'm really sad, I'm really angry, and I have a
lot of fears, and I couldn't find anything else I
suffered from. So I realized, yeah, you know what, the
human being essentially only suffers from one of these three feelings,
and there's many variations of each one of them, but

(01:15:36):
the root emotion is the same. It's some form of sadness,
some form of anger, or some form of fear. And
so when you know that your emotions signal those beliefs.
Sadness signals the belief in lack, Anger signals and attachment,
and fear signals control. Once you get that, then you
know how you can now use your emotions to essentially

(01:15:59):
do the most efficient kind of shadow work that there is,
which is it takes all the guesswork out. You can
just say what do I feel right now? And you say,
I feel a lot of sadness in my body. Okay, great.
We know for sure then that you have a lack
belief somewhere. You believe you're lacking something and now you
ask the emotion what it is, and then you're bringing

(01:16:19):
the emotion in closer, right, You're you're bringing in the sadness,
saying thank you, sadness for coming to show me that
I have a lack belief. Because that's what they are.
They're messengers, emotions are They're here to reflect your mind
to you. They're reflecting the quality of your thinking. Right,
So when you ask the emotion, sadness, show me what
I believe I'm lacking.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
This is something I've I've been noticing lately that there's
a lot of nostalgia for the past. You know, people
are looking back at the eighties in the apparently nineties
was peak humanity. That's what I keep hearing. I agree,
you were born, you're you're a nineties get right, that's
p humanity.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
It fits my bias exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
But I've noticed that a lot. And it's not just
like my generation and your generation, but generations before. They're like, oh,
the fifties were the best time, or all the sixties
were the best time. It's always constant there. What is
there when someone is stuck in nostalgia? Because there's people
who build out, you know, you know, Doloreans and you know,
and they'll build out bat caves and they'll be like

(01:17:22):
they really want to go back to when they were children.
What is that nostalgia? What is that lack? What is
the thing there that's causing the constant like I don't
want to be here right now. I want to go
back to nineteen eighty five. Yep, you know, or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
Yeah, what's a great question when whenever you so, nostalgia,
let's say, can either become something that produces positive emotions
or negative emotions.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
Nostalgia I've always connected with positive, Yeah, because if you're
looking at the back like I don't look at like
my beatings when I was getting you know, spanked when
I was a kid, you know, in the eighties as nostalgia, right,
But I do look at going to See Back to
the Future opening night.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
Yeah, in the movie theater as the st Yeah, and
that it provokes good feelings, correct, And then you sort
of slip into like, oh, those were the good old days,
and it becomes negative all of a sudden, because now
you're believing in lack. You're like, it's not good anymore.
It used to be good, but it's not right that's
the underlying belief. So it becomes sad all of a sudden.
So you can see that's a perfect yes, that's a

(01:18:27):
perfect example of the emotional guidance system. If it feels bad,
it's because it's not true. If it feels good, if
it produces positive emotions, that's because it's true. But here's
where we go wrong is we think that our conceptual minds, projections,
and ideas about the emotion is what's true or false.
And nope, emotions are not concepts. We got to get this.

(01:18:50):
Emotions are sensations, so they're inherently non conceptual. They do
not carry conceptual information with them. So an emotion can't
be true or false because it's not a concept. An
emotion is a reflection, right, and it's either positive or negative,
expansive or contracting. But those are the only two options

(01:19:11):
that our state of being has. And so what emotions
are reflecting is our self perception. The way we think
and see ourselves is what our emotions are showing us.
So the moment I think about myself in a negative way,
in a way that the creator does not see me, right,
Like I'm unworthy of love, I'm never good enough. If

(01:19:32):
I think about myself that way, it feels negative because
my state of being is the truth. It is one
with God, and so it has to tell me when
I'm out of alignment with truth. It can't do otherwise
because it is the truth. And so we should actually
love our negative emotions for this reason and bring them
in when they arise and say, oh, anger, just like
I said with sadness. Sadness, show me what I believe

(01:19:53):
I'm lacking right now. Or if I'm angry, bring that
anger in closer and say anger, show me what I'm
attached to here, or if it's say fear, show me
what I'm trying to control? Where am I not trusting God?
And Alex's good questions get good answers, right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
When you ask your emotions these pertinent questions, which is
what I teach in the book, you get the answers
you're looking for. The sadness will show you what the
lack belief is. Maybe it's a trauma, right my dad
left at this age or something, but it'll express itself
in your mind in some way, and you'll get it, Oh,
I believe I'm lacking connection or something like that. And

(01:20:40):
there's a way that I teach how to requalify those
three beliefs once you identify the root belief that's causing it.
But the biggest bang for your buck, by far, is
just the first part of the equation. Use your emotional
guidance system to point you to the belief. Right, what
do I feel right now? I got a lot of
anger in my body? Okay, Then what am I attached
to get to make all the guests work out? I

(01:21:01):
don't have to wonder why I'm angry anymore. I know
for sure it's an attachment, because it is impossible to
be angry about something if you don't have an attachment
or an expectation of something that needs to be there
first before anger. And it can be very simple, right
if somebody spits on me or whatever, and I get angry,
and you would say, Aaron, aren't I justified in being

(01:21:23):
angry about that? And I would say yeah, on a
human level, of course, But why does it provoke anger
in me rather than Wow, this person's like compassion? Right,
Like this person's having a bad day, Well, it's because
somewhere in my mind, I have an attachment or an
expectation nobody should disrespect me, no one ever talks to
me a certain way. And well, our egos have these

(01:21:45):
kind of postures like this, where we expect other people
should know how great I am and never treat me that.
And we don't even know we have these expectations until
somebody insults us or whatever, and we could all bend
out of shape. So even that the way others should
treat me, even that's an attachment. It's like, I don't
need to have attachments to the ways other people treat me.

(01:22:06):
I don't control any of that. I can just control
my own state of being and my own response to people.
And what I say in the book is the way
that other people treat me reveals their karma, but the
way I respond to how they treat me reveals my karma.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Right, And when you were talking about all of the
different things, the thing that popped into my head was Yoda,
and I was like, fear. Fear leads the anger, anger
leads the hate, hate leads the suffering. Oh it's so good,
It's like, it isn't that amazing? That's that's from a
phantom menace talking about Anakin and uh Anakin could have

(01:22:42):
used this, Darth Vader.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Darth Vader could have used this, Anakin would have benefited greatly.
He would have kept that other arm, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
He would have definitely kept it. But it's it's so
true that I and I the one thing I've been
continuously coming to grips with and it's the alt I
think it's one of the ultimate truths of the human
experience is we're all here to transcend fear. Fear is
the number one thing that we need to transcend in

(01:23:09):
this existence because it all kind of goes back to
that if you're you're either fearful or you're not fearful.
You're either trust in the universe or you don't trust
in the universe, and that we're in here. This is
a scary place. It can be a very scary environment
being down here. Depending on your parents, no question, depending
on your community, depending on the country you live in,
your financial circumstances, your physical circumstances. There's you know, the heat,

(01:23:33):
the cult.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Like it's a this is not a third density is tough, man.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
It's not an easy run here, man, It really isn't.
And if you and again as I started studying more
of the the yogis and the other walking masters and
ascended masters and things, the one common thread of all
of them is they transcend fear completely. Not one of
them was a fearful ascended master. It goes, you can't
you can't be a master. You can be a master

(01:23:58):
yogi and be fearful about anything. Yeah, you know, I
mean if a tiger's again, if a tiger's coming to
get you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
Well, see, I differentiate those things though.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
So yeah, explain that. Yeah, because there was a fear,
there's a good fear, yeah, which is like, there's a
tiger in the room. I'm in the room, the doors closed.
This is a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
Yeah, it's funny. I had a whole chapter in the
book that I had to cut out of the book
because it was too long, and my publishers were like, dude,
you got to chop something out. And it was called
the Origin of Ego. It is going to be the
second chapter. The following one is called what is the Ego,
which gets more into the metaphysics of the ego. And
I'm thought, okay, I'll keep that one and chop out
the Origins one. But I really love the Origins chapter,

(01:24:37):
and what I did in that chapter was I talked
about the evolutionary origin of ego. Of like, let's understand
how and why this mental mechanism evolved itself. And I
go back to the fight flight freeze, a flight fight
freeze response. So this is a primal, a primordial nervous
system response that nature created and place into basically every

(01:25:01):
sentient creature.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
Have you as you've seen the frozen goats, uh, which
are I'm sorry hilarious to watch. Yes, when you freeze
goats and they just freeze, that goes you know that?

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
That fainting goats.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
The fainting goats, Yes, they freeze when they get scared.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
They literally freeze and they just fall. They can't unfreeze,
and it takes them a minute to unfreeze.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
It is by far one of the funniest things I
seen in my life. But that's their defense mechanism as
opposed to a lion. He's gonna fight.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
Generally speaking, not a great defense mechanism when confronted by
a lion. But yeah, no, you hear eat me. Let
me just be your dinner right now.

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
I don't know how they survived as a species.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
With that kind of it's crazy to think about, but it's.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
If you have anyone, if you have not seen fainting goats,
just type in fainting goats and YouTube and you're going
to enjoy it. Yeah, it's not mean, it's just it's
like the way they are.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
It's like cat videos, you just never stop.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
Oh no, it's oh god, yeah no. And sometimes cats
scare them, the goats and even ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
And you have cat goat videos and it's like and
then you're just there for you. So yeah, so sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
The question was about so it's the the response is
so a fight flight it freeze.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
Was just so this is cool to me because we
can see where we get these existential human emotions from.
The motion of sadness is an existential version of the
flight response in our animal brain. It's like, you know,
we have like the reptilian brain, the animal brain, and
then the human brain all wrapped around each other, kind

(01:26:31):
of like a jawbreaker. Have you heard that before? The
reptilian brains at the very center, right, And so as
the brain has grown, it's kind of modulated some of
these things into more complex versions of it. So flight
is sadness because sadness is essentially the feeling of sadness
is like this need to escape from pain. So it's
like flight, You're trying to run from pain. Anger is

(01:26:54):
obviously fight, that's easy, and fear is obviously freeze. And
what's cool is, though those three feelings are qualitatively different
from each other. And that's why the emotional guidance system
is the most accurate tool we have for doing real
trauma work. Is that your emotions never lie to you.
They never can lie to you because again they're not concepts.

(01:27:16):
They're not coming to tell you anything. And so when
people oftentimes say, you know, you can't trust your emotions
because your emotions will lead you astray, it's like, no,
it's the opposite. Actually, by the time you feel a
negative emotion, you've already gone astray in your mind, and
the emotions just the mirror reflecting that back to you.
And you can see the utility of that. Right, if

(01:27:38):
it felt good to think wrongly about myself, I would
never know who I am. I would never reach self realization.
I just live countless lifetimes in the universe in happy ignorance.
It has to feel bad to think wrongly about myself.
How else, can my soul learn what I really am? You?

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Absolutely? Yeah. But and so let me ask you then,
how how about people who use theirs as excuses to
do things? So like, you know, cheat on my spouse
or something like that, because I'm following my emotion. Yes,
and sometimes it used the term emotion, but it really isn't.
It's something else. So like that's lust, Yeah, that's lust,
or that's or you're actually angry at the spouse and

(01:28:17):
you're using this as an excuse to do a break up.
But there's it gets complex. But there are people who
use emotions like that, definitely, and they rationalize it within
in their own mind. That's what I think some of that.
Don't trust your emotions.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
Yeah, the human race systemically does not understand emotions at all.
We have a completely wrong mainstream understanding of what they are,
such that people will say, my emotions made me kill
this guy or cheating my wife. No, your emotions can't
make you do anything. It's the ego that makes you
do it by hijacking the emotion, making a story out

(01:28:52):
of it, and then convincing you of that story narrative.
The emotion is not the problem or to be blamed, right,
It's kind of like this. And now imagine a messenger
riding in on a horse into a kingdom to tell
the king of impending doom. Right, So we rides into
the castle and jumps off the horse and falls on
his knees in front of the king. My lord, the

(01:29:13):
armies are approaching, prepare the troops, and the king is like,
oh my god, right, this is bad news. The king
is not happy to hear this, But does he drive
a spear through the messenger? Sometimes they hopefully not, right,
sometimes they did. If it's a mentally sane king at all,
he might actually promote this guy to a higher status,

(01:29:33):
like you might have just saved my kingdom.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
If you hadn't come to warn us, then we'd be doomed.
So a friend who brings bad news is still a
friend who's trying to help you. And that's what our
emotions are doing. And so this is where the phrase
comes from, don't shoot the messenger, right, But that's what
we do with our emotions. We shoot the messenger the
emotion as if you're the problem, you're bad, you're here

(01:29:56):
to torment me, leave me alone, sadness or fear whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:30:01):

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
And we demonized the emotion when that emotion is literally
an aspect of you being reflected back at you, trying
to give you helpful information that you're ignoring and suppressing.
And that's really what trauma is, is that it's a
it's a misunderstanding of what emotions really mean. Because again,
ego will use emotion to write its stories out of

(01:30:30):
So if you were abandoned and you felt sad from that,
ego will use that sadness as proof so you really
were abandoned and unlovable. And if you're angry at someone,
it'll use the anger as proof there really did betray you.
So the ego can only steal and hijack. It can't
originate anything of its own. It borrows and it steals
and manipulates and twists, but it doesn't know anything that

(01:30:52):
is true. The ego doesn't know eternal truth. So that's
why the ego can't be relied upon as a guide
to lead us to truth. But does that mean the
ego is like some bad thing, like some cosmic blunder
by No, means the ego is an ingenious design by
source intelligence, and the law of one gets into this

(01:31:12):
quite a bit. But it is the driving evolutionary mechanism
here in third density that we all incarnate here into
this crazy world. As you said, it's confusing, it's intense,
it's bewildering. We have no idea why we're here. Who
am I? Where did I come from? So we have
this thing called an ego that's born out of that ignorance,
and it's trying to answer that question, who am I? Yes,

(01:31:33):
And it's going to keep trying until it's tried every
available route and they all fail. And then the ego
gives itself up essentially, and it becomes integrated into the
larger essence of what we are, which is the I itself,
the I Am principle, the soul. And so the ego
plays that role of leading us along the prodigal sun
journey all the way back to the Father's house, which

(01:31:55):
we call enlightenment. And to me, enlightenment is not the
end of the journey, but enlightenment is more like, all right,
welcome to the universe, Like this is the starting line,
not the finishing line. Now that you know who you
actually are, now you can go explore and enjoy the
universe in all of its endless mysteries. Right, we will

(01:32:15):
never be an interstellar civilization so long as we live
in this warlike egoic state we're in. We've got to
transcend it, right, And that's what the book is all about,
helping humanity do.

Speaker 1 (01:32:26):
We won't make it the next hundred years if we
keep going the way we are. Yeah, it just we
just won't.

Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
Ai.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
Especially, we have to transcend. We have to transcend. You were.
One thing you said that that caught my ear was
the story that we tell people ourselves excuse me about things,
and then we do it constantly that we generally generally,
if you're somewhat sane mine, you are always the hero

(01:32:54):
of your own journey. Yes, you're always the hero of
your own story. And if you've wronged me, I must
tell a story in my head of manipulating the truth,
manipulating this if you're not completely if you're not self
aware and like, you know what I screwed up. That's
why she got into an argument with me, or that's
why he doesn't like me, that's why I lost the job,

(01:33:14):
or But it takes a strong, evolved person to say
it's on me, my bad. Usually it's like, you know what,
that guy had it out for me. That's why I
lost my job, as opposed to but maybe you just
didn't do your job right kind of thing. So that's
something that people need to understand too, is that we
constantly are justifying our actions in our head. Because I

(01:33:38):
always like using Thanos as a as a great analogy,
is like, in his mind he was trying to do
something good. For sure, I think he kind of knew
that he wasn't the good guy, but in his mind
he had a listen, there's not enough resources in the universe.
Just like, yeah, he's not enough you resources in the universe.
I gotta snap half of everybody out of existence so

(01:34:01):
we can use the resources more efficiently.

Speaker 2 (01:34:03):
See the belief and lack exactly right. Even Dan's falls for.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
It, even Thano's falls for it. But what I find
fascinating is I heard the other day, which I thought
was genius, that there was a geek at a comic
con walked up to Josh Brolin and it's like, you know,
if you had the power to snap half of the
universe away, you also had the power to double all
the resources.

Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
That's a great point is and he's like son of
them that just killed the whole movie, Like he's right,
you know, that's kind of like you're you know, Paul
could have appeared to his disciples too to confirm anything.

Speaker 1 (01:34:35):
It's exactly the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:34:36):
Like, ah, there it all goes, the whole logical fallacy.

Speaker 1 (01:34:40):
The whole thing just blows up. The whole house of
cards comes crashing down. But yeah, that whole concept of
us having to tell our own story to make us
even the bad guys, even even you know, serial killers
in their own head, oh, have created a narrative that
justifies what they're doing. Yes, And obviously war is like
you're the my problem. My economy is bad because you're

(01:35:02):
taking my job.

Speaker 2 (01:35:03):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
That kind of thing to blame outside of yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
That's part of ego's function to protect you. Yes, it
has to always place the bad outside of you everyone else's.
It's everyone else's fault, not my fault. And what's cool
is the last chapter in the book is titled Jesus
and the Three Beliefs, and I go into the forty
days in the Wilderness story. When I saw this man,
it blew my mind. In fact, I realized this about

(01:35:30):
a year ago when I read the story studying some
of my scholarship stuff, and I was like, oh, my God,
Jesus literally goes through all three beliefs perfectly, and I'd
never seen it until now. So I wrote a chapter
on it and like begged my publishers to let me
put it in the book, and they're like, okay, fine,
And so the last chapter is just showing how Jesus
faced these three you know, negative core human beliefs we

(01:35:53):
all come with. And if you remember, the first one
is if you are the son of God. The devil says,
then come in these stones to turn to bread and
satisfy your hunger. So he's playing on Jesus' belief in lack, right, Oh,
you're hungry out here in the desert. Prove it. Prove
that you're God by making these stones bread and assuage
your lack, your hunger. And Jesus requalifies it and says,

(01:36:14):
no man shall not live by bread alone, but by
the word of God. The next one, he takes Jesus
to the top of a mountain, shows him the entire
city of Jerusalem and says, if you worship me. All
of this can be yours. All the pleasures and wealth
of this land I'll give to you. And that's, of
course the second belief attachment outcome happiness. I can be

(01:36:34):
fulfilled by things outside of me. And he tempts Jesus
with wouldn't you be fulfilled if I gave you this
whole city? And Jesus rebukes sem me requalifies that one
as well. And then the third temptation, he takes Jesus
to the top of the temple mount and he says,
if you are the son of God, prove it by
casting yourself down from this temple. And doesn't the scripture

(01:36:56):
say that God will make his angels take charge to
protect you lest you dash your foot against us. Don't
prove it. Prove that you're in control by jumping off
this temple and not dying. So that's the belief in control.
I'm in control, I'm the doer. And Jesus says, no,
you don't test God. That's what the Bible says, and
he requalifies that belief too. So Jesus always knew the

(01:37:17):
right philosophy to counteract the devil, which in Hebrew, by
the way, is ha Satan, which means the adversary. And
what I say in the book is that the devil
is obviously, in my opinion, an ancient world personification of
the human ego. It's the devil in your mind, right,
it's whispering.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
Oh, there's always a devil in your mind.

Speaker 2 (01:37:38):
Yes, yes, it's not outside of you. Give me a break.
Like Christianity teaches that the devil is like hopping around
in the universe causing problems for it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:46):
Well, we live in Austin, so I just saw him
walk across the street. It's like, Oh, it's too hot
in here. I gotta get it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
Even the devil's getting out of Austin's hotter than Hell, as.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
They seems like, I gotta go back to Hell and
get a little.

Speaker 2 (01:37:57):
Wow, it's literally hotter than Hell here. We're like three
to cooler than this.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
I'm glad that we brought it back to Jesus and
kind of wrapped the whole conversation up. Bro, I always do,
where where can people find this book?

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
Yeah, it's on Amazon. It's pretty much anywhere books are sold.
I'm doing a book tour right now. I have a
few more events Miami, Boulder, Austin, And if you want
to go to my Instagram or website, you can find
the dates for that. And you can also get it
in a lot of bookstores, like like actual real life books.
They still have those, they still exist, man.

Speaker 1 (01:38:30):
Yeah, And where can people find out more about you?

Speaker 2 (01:38:34):
Easy? Aeronabkey dot com, probably YouTube dot com, slash Aaron Abkey,
I'm on Instagram, so I'm same handle everywhere, easy to find.

Speaker 1 (01:38:42):
Aaron. Is always a pleasure having you here, man. I'd
like forward to our next conversation, and I look forward
to our collaboration on the Soul Mastery Summit. Same look
for that's coming as of this recording coming up soon. Yeah.
If it's not there, people will find it and we
might be some other stuff in the future together. So
let's see what we can do, man, So listen. I

(01:39:03):
appreciate you and fighting the good fight out there and
spreading the good word. Brother. I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:39:07):
Thank you so much, man. Always a pleasure to be
with you.

Speaker 1 (01:39:11):
I like to thank Aaron so much for coming on
the show and sharing his knowledge and wisdom with all
of us. If you want to get links to anything
we spoke about in this episode, head over to the
show notes at Next levelsoul dot Com Forward slash six
two nine. Now. If this conversation stirred something in you,
there's more waiting. You can listen to this episode completely
commercial free on Next Level Soul TV's app, where Soul

(01:39:33):
meets streaming. Watch and listen on Apple iOS, Android, Apple TV, Ruku,
Android TV Buyer, tv LG and Samsung apps anytime anywhere.
Begin your awakening at next levelsoul dot tv. Thank you
so much for listening. As I always say, trust the journey.
It's there to teach you. I'll see you next time.

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