NextPod Soccer Podcast for October 31

On today's show, James and Duane are joined by Austin FC's Sal Mazzaferro. The Canadian defender talks about his first pro season in the MLS system and his future plans. The boys also touch on the 2023 Canadian Premier League final, whether young players get enough of a look in the playoffs, what makes a successful pro academy and on the legacy of Christine Sinclair.

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Welcome to Next Pot, your weeklylook at North American soccer prospects and the
West. Next bro campl and beyond. These are your homes, Dwayne Rode
and James Grossey. Yeah, andwelcome to Next Pot. I'm Dwayne Rowlands.

(00:30):
Joining me on the line is theman who has one of the most
clever Twitter handles I've ever seen,James GROSSI all right, g R A
W S. I can't even sayit right now, what is it?
It is g R A W SE E. And when I was young,
everybody would always mispronounce my last name, so it it bothered me as

(00:52):
a kid. I'm cool with itnow, let me just sort of go
with the flow. But I figured, if I was going to make a
public facing profile, why not putthat right out there so that everyone knows
how to say it still gets stillgets missed on occasion, but uh,
just trying to kind of teach thepeople how to pronounce Italian names, one
person at a time. I guess, yeah, well, I guess maybe
it's because I've you know, beenaround Toronto for a lot of my life

(01:15):
that that an Italian name doesn't faceme at all. But uh, press
A Grossy eye. I guess,I guess. Yeah. There was a
lot of groceries back in the day, which is fine. I generally knew
they were talking to me, butyou know, if you were in a
particularly Italian school, there could beseveral variations on the form, and so
it was it was good to getit straightened out. So fair enough,

(01:37):
Yeah, you're talking to a dU A n E. Dwayne. My
name is rarely spelled correctly. Iwill literally be you know, getting the
coffee cup or whatever. Du An E. I'll spell it out and
I'll they'll hand it to me twentyseconds later. D w A y any
all the time. So it's notquite the same, but I kind of
it's in the same sort of genre. I think we can we can understand

(01:59):
each other when it comes to anotherthing that people can understand each other about
is that the Campo Final happened onSaturday, and I don't know if it
was a good game, but itwas a good extra time. I'll say
that two to one. Forge FConce again, four times out of five
years, is your Canadian Premier Leaguechampions. The bridesmaids of Canadian football.

(02:21):
That would be the Foothills or Cavalryif you prefer, which the league would
prefer since that's their name. Onceagain, are not at the top level,
even though they have consistently been rightup there with Forge in terms of
their play. James, you wereat the game. Before we get into
our main topic today, which isan interview with Salamsaferrow, who's a defender
for Austin FC two. So that'san Intenkane founder, I should speculate.

(02:44):
We've talked a lot about it inthe weeks past here, so but before
we get into that, we wantto have a little chat that's not really
development focused, but is Canadian footballfocused, and that is on that Campio
final. You were at the game, as I just said big takeaways from
it. I described it as kindof ninety minutes of pushing Paul and then

(03:04):
thirty minutes of insanity. Is thata fair way to describe it? Well,
the first thing to say is thattraffic in southern Ontario Hill is just
broken. So I mean like thatwas a bit of a night. I
spent about four and a half hourson a bus ride to and from Hamilton
on Saturday, so that was thatwas not fun. But you know,
the game more than made up formy personal gripe about how long it took

(03:24):
me to get there. I agree. The first first forty five minutes was
pretty quiet. You know, itwas a lot of a lot of both
teams sort of feeling each other out, and nobody wanted to make that mistake
that would that would allow the otherteam to take the lead. I think
everyone knew that the first goal inregular time at least was gonna was going

(03:45):
to play a really big factor inthe match. And as we got into
the second half, we sort ofsaw the game shift a little bit.
I thought. I thought that firsthalf Forge were really comfortable letting Cavalry have
a lot of the ball, whichis not what we would have expected from
a Forge side, but they werepositioning themselves well to look for opportunities and
look for openings and try and pounce. And Cavary, I thought, looked

(04:06):
a little bit nervous in that openingforty five minutes. But come the second
half we saw that turn around alittle bit. Calvary had the better of
the chances. Tristan Henry had tocome up with a couple of big saves
to keep the match level headed intoextra time, and then you know,
once you get past that opening ninetyminutes, and I don't know if there
was something about extra time, orsomething about the atmosphere on the evening,

(04:29):
or just something about the shackles comingoff, because now, okay, you've
made it through that ninety minutes,we need to find a winner in this
next half hour. We're going tothe crap shoot that is penalty kick sent
that turned that game to life,and you know, a stunning goal for
Ali Mussy. You're not quite sure. I'm not quite sure if Forge is
going to have a way to answer, and then my word, the two

(04:50):
answers that they provided Benny Badi Bangawith the first one a lovely sumptuous chip
into the back corner over Marco Carducciand then you know, Tristan Henry from
a corner kick right in. Uh. You know, I don't know if
you could have scripted a more dramaticsort of conclusion to a game for the

(05:11):
CPL season. So yeah, itwas. It was a pretty fun night.
It was worth the hours and hoursin traffic. It was good to
see a lot of our fellow colleaguescovering Canadian soccer at the match. Really
good press conferences after you had youhad to feel a little bit sorry for
Tommy Wilden Jr. Who's done somuch in his five years with Cavalry and

(05:32):
seems to always fall short. Youknow, Thankfully they got their hands on
some silverware this year and then Forge, I mean Forge do it again.
Bobby smirniotis even when his side isn'tthat their best as we saw this season
was it was probably the the roughestseason we've seen from a Forge side through
the five years of the CPO.But but when it comes to these crucial

(05:54):
matches, they find a way toget it done. Yeah, they do
the way to get it done.Bobby's scenes jumping over the barrier to celebrate
with Barton Mettallion fans at the endof the game. We're something that I
took away from that game that howpassionate he is about that that club and
what he's built there. And Iknow for a fact that Bobby has aspirations

(06:15):
to maybe move up a level inthe days ahead. He you know,
I think it's a shame that wehaven't really seen the campl coaches get an
opportunity beyond this level. That's that'san ongoing issue, right to trust our
domestic coaches when when you're talking aboutthe top level division in North American Major
League Soccer. It's something that foryears the Americans struggled with as well.
Not so much anymore, but Ithink the next time there's an opening in

(06:40):
Canada. There is an opening inCanada right now for the big job.
But the next time there's an MLSopening in Canada, I would hope that
Bobby would get a look. Tommyfor that matter too. You know,
anyone who wants to blame Tommy WildenJr. For that loss, I mean,
come on, what you're supposed togame plan against an Olympico. I
mean, it's it's really just theskill that we saw on display in terms

(07:01):
of the offensive attack, the flairthat was going on in that last thirty
minutes, last fifteen minutes makes itnot really a coaching thing at that point,
but two great coaches and two guysthat really go ahead to head and
battle a lot of the battle verydifficulty, and what you know, it's
kind of the true Canadian classic ofthe MPL right now, Forge versus Cavalry.

(07:21):
It was a great game. Absolutely. Look when after Mussy scored,
you know, the initial thought formany would be that, you know,
based on how tight the game hadbeen up to that, that maybe that
was over. But there was somethingabout just even that next attack down the
pitch to me, I thought Forgewas going to get take it right from
there. And I don't know whetherCavalry just has that history weighing on them

(07:44):
and whether you could see them kindof sitting back and obviously the two goals
were hard to you know, youcould defend. Again, I just got
done saying you can't really predict thatsort of stuff, but that just there
was a feeling that I had.And maybe that's just recently biased confirmation bias,
whatever you want to call it,coming out to to play right now,
or hindsight even, but but itcertainly seemed like like it might be

(08:05):
possible that Forge would get a chanceto win after that. And they went
ahead and they did. James,Yeah, I mean, this is this
is gonna sound a little bit likea silly point. But one of the
things that I one of the oneof the pleasures and privileges of being at
these games is that you get tosee things that that aren't necessarily available on
television. And I don't I don'twatch the warm ups particularly closely. You

(08:28):
know, there's not a whole lotof information that you can get from that,
but you can you can get asense of of of the team's you
know, ethos or atmosphere or spiritin that match. And Cavalry left the
field before the final warm ups weresort of over. You know, they
were off the field a minute ortwo before before the clock counting on the
scoreboard ran down. And so Forgersjust out there by themselves, and you

(08:52):
can see how loose Forge were,and you can see how comfortable they were
in their surroundings. And as Isaid, Cavalry looked a little bit nervous
in that opening half, and Forgejust looked like a team that they had
a job to do on the day, and they knew what they had to
do, and they knew that ifthey did their job, they were going
to find a way to win it. And so when you say, you
know, even though Moosey scored thatgoal, Forge had a goal ruled off,

(09:16):
So you could be feeling pretty harddone by, but yeah, they
just found that extra gear and Ithink that I think that comes from from
the comfort of being there, fromhaving players who can pull off those sort
of spectacular moves that there are nodefenses for, and just the confidence that
comes from from knowing what you've whatyou've accomplished, and how you can accomplish
that again. And I give alot of that credit to Bobby. You

(09:39):
know, he speaking postmatch, hewas asked a little bit about where his
future is, and you know,he went on this, you went on
the the usual sort of like,oh, you know, I'm happy where
I am. But but the theexample that he gave was that you know,
unless you're playing at Real Madrid ormanaging at Real Madrid, there's always
another level for you in this game. And that's so much of how he

(10:01):
views the game is you need topush yourself, you need to push your
players onto that next level. Andso I can. I can definitely see
something coming up for Bobby in thefuture, and you know, whether it's
the national team, whether it's anMLS club, it won't be too long
before he gets his chance. Yeah. Look, i'von record of saying that
I think you'd give him the nationalteam job. And I know people won't

(10:24):
like that because they're going to want, you know, a big, big
name because the World Cup bar butI don't think there's anything wrong with giving
the Bobby, and Bobby has therespect of some people in that room already,
so so it wouldn't be the worstidea. We'll see what's the and
they can afford him too, thatthat's an important consideration. I mean,
we can dream all we want anda lot. He's not coming here,
guys, not not probably, probablynot unless he comes for free. So

(10:48):
that's be realistic. And I thinkBobby would be a great way to to
to go with the national team movingforward, but we'll see, we'll see
where that happens. To get backto this game, and started quickly before
that, I want to interesting howyou mentioned the warm ups people. He'll
hate me for this. I'm gonnamention TFC. But the only other time
I can remember a warm up reallytelling me something was the Tigris series in

(11:11):
the CCL a few years ago,when it was like minus whatever right there
and in March, and the TeaGriss players went out and did like ten
minutes of warm out and they justclearly wanted to be anywhere else from there.
And I turned to someone in thebox that day and said, Yeah,
the TFC's got this. They don'twant to play. It doesn't matter
how good you are. If youdon't want to be there, you're not
going to win, and that certainlywas evident that day. A little bit
different what you're saying, but sometimescan find some stuff out of the warm

(11:35):
ups. Maybe we should watch thema little closer. I don't know the
Olympico and interest in borgeous in general, he's not at a great year and
he hasn't had a great time reallysince he left for Belgium and never really
got a chance there. He's stillso young, he's not quite We had
a conversation early on in the showlike what is a development age when when's
a prospect? That was one ofour first topics. I think by definition

(12:00):
interest in Borges isn't in that prospectrange anymore, but he's certainly not in
the washed up range anymore either,at twenty four years old. Hopefully that
Olympico might be able to give hima little bit of confidence back and give
him a little opportunity to sort ofbuild upon some of that promise we saw
early on in his career. Butregardless of that, it is nice that

(12:20):
you know a player like that couldhave his shot come back to Campel and
still have time to redevelop himself andmaybe get another chance at another level above
him. Quick thoughts on the factthat Borges who was the player of the
game, Although I think Henry shouldhave been the player of the game in
my mind, but Borges getting theplayer of the game with that great Olympico
goal. Yeah, I think Ithink I agree with everything you just said

(12:41):
about him and the fact that heis still just twenty four and along the
lines of what Bobby said in termsof you're always striving for that next level.
And I'm going to throw back toa conversation I had with John Herman
way back at the beginning of histenure with the men's national team that I've
talked about several times year. I'vetalked about it a lot of other places

(13:01):
because it just seemed it seems sorelevant to a lot of things that are
going on, and it was aconversation about Canadian player and athletes and how
every pathway. One of the thingsthat him and his staff did when they
came in to the national team situationwas they charted what the player pathways were
for every individual player to get asense of how Canadian players developed and every

(13:24):
single one was so different compared tolike, if you're talking about Spain.
You know, every national team playercomes through either the Barcelona or Real Madrid
or one of the other first teamacademies plays their career. Sometimes they go
here sometimes, but it's all generallythe same form. Whereas for Canadian players,
sometimes you're going overseas when you're sixteen. Sometimes you're playing in an MLS

(13:46):
academy here. Sometimes you go tothe college route and then get drafted,
or or you go to the collegeroute and go to your It's just such
a varied pathway. And one ofthe one of the ancillary topics to that
is that it's never a linear,an upwards linear trajectory for players. And
sometimes players are going to have yearswhere they're struggling with injuries, they're struggling

(14:07):
with off field things, they're strugglingwith confidence and form and whatever it was
for for Tristan Borges this year,that's in the in the past. That
might be the end of somebody's career. You know. You know, if
you have a bad year, yougo overseas, it doesn't work out,
you come back here, you havenowhere to play. You don't get that
second chance, and so I thinkthat's exactly what the CPO is all about.

(14:30):
It is given these players a placeto to go through those ups and
downs of a career, but butkeep them in the game and keep them
training and keep giving them opportunities infinals to score the game winning goals from
from those corner kicks. And youknow, one of the one of the
best quotes from from the post matchconversations with Bobby saying how Wintersting went on,

(14:50):
he just sort of told him togo out there and and win them
another championship. I think, youknow, whether it was at the time
or speaking to us about it postmatch, butably win us a third championship
forgetting that it would actually be theirfourth championship. But it's not so much
the number that you win as muchas it is the uh, the emotion

(15:11):
and the energy that you put intodoing it. So, yeah, good
for Tristan. He seemed pretty prettygood with the result postmatch, and you
hope that that's the kind of thingthat can spur a guy on who's had
a tough year. Yeah, fifteenyears ago, Tristan Borges goes to Belgium,
comes back, he's probably trying tosell me a house right now,
right? You know that? TheActually I think he probably would own a

(15:33):
nightclub. He looks like a guythat might have owned a nightclub. That
that's my guess what Tristan Borge ishis backup career would have been, but
none, I think that. Butit seems like you don't know a dance
club somewhere anyway. A couple quickthoughts before we move on into our interview.
Thoughts on the Cavalry. They probablythe best regular season that any Camphill

(15:56):
team's ever had, and there isa new well, I guess it's an
trophy trophy moved into to create anew trophy, but regardless, there's a
new They are acknowledging the regular seasonchampionship now in the CAMPL. That is
giving them the berth in to theChampions League. So Calgary does get something
out of this season. We dohave an opportunity, tong goldon Junior and
Co has an opportunity to build towardsthe CCL berth, which you know,

(16:19):
ultimately if you win that first round, you know, you can joke about
this, but it's a real realcarrot out there. You have an opportunity
to perhaps draw the blowndor winner.I can come into Calgary, that might
be a fun little mix there ifpossible. But for first, they got
to win that. This quick thoughtson Calgary their season and you know,

(16:40):
another loss. But should Calgary fansbe upset at wildon? Should there there
be changes there? I don't thinkso, but I'll throw it to you.
Yeah, I mean you have toseparate the emotion of the situation from
everything that's been achieved over the fiveseasons there. And yeah, of course
fans have every right to be upsetat being so close to being so close

(17:07):
to winning that that final trophy thatthey wanted. They got some silverware earlier
this year, as you mentioned,But to be that close to getting over
the hump and getting one over onyour rivals forged too. You know,
It's it's tough to put place anyblame for the two goals that they allowed
it there. And so it's alittle bit of that spectacular failure sort of

(17:30):
situation where like, yeah, youlost, but you can't remove that from
the context stuff. It took twogoals that were worthy of winning any game
in the world in order to stopyou from from becoming the first side to
do the double, And so youknow, you can be upset about it,
you can down your sorrows, youcan you can be miserable about it

(17:52):
for the next little while. ButI still tend to think that that the
work that Tommy is doing there inCavalry is spectacular, and not only for
that team. I can't think ofany other team in the CPO off the
top of my head that's done quiteas much in terms of giving young players
a showcase opportunity and moving them onwhen the time is right for the player.

(18:14):
Not waiting around for when it's betterfor the club to let a guy
go, but moving them on whenit's the right time for the player.
And so, yeah, be asupset as you want, but recognize that
that progress is slow and there's alot of pain along the way. But
you guys have a pretty good thinggoing there in coming. Yeah. As
a neutral in this league since dayone, it is hard not to be

(18:37):
respectful of what Cavalry does and Forgedoes for that matter. I found myself
watching that final just rooting for goodresults. Good truly in a pure way.
I just wanted to watch a goodfootball game and was rewarded from that.
I was sitting beside a Forge fan, So it is you know,
you get a little orange influence onyou sometimes, and I think some people

(18:59):
that follow me into it or mightthink that I'm a Forge fan because I
talk about them more, but that'sjust because they're the most relevant team in
the league and I, you know, live with a fordge fan. But
nonetheless, it was a great wayto end the final final thoughts that we're
going to go to before we moveon to our interview today. We're not
ready to give direct numbers in this, but just as a general thought,
we've been looking at how the coacheshave been using the younger players, the

(19:21):
under twenty one players in the playoffsas compared to the regular season, where
we're going to maybe dive in alittle bit deeper in the days ahead on
the show, but just as ahigh level right now, James, any
any observations you're picking up on theuse of the young players. It's it's
a little bit tricky to be superdefinitive on anything, given the fact that
you know, York United played onegame, Halifax plays one game, so

(19:44):
it's really you know, the oldthe old sample size problem really comes into
picture here. But overall, i'dsay, there's been a pretty noticeable decrease
in terms of the percentage of minutesthat teams are giving to their under twenty
one players throughout these playoffs. Ithink there was one outlier, of course,
which was Pacific so far, whohad Amil Gasdov start all three matches,

(20:07):
so that actually raised their their percentageof view twenty one minutes compared to
their season numbers. But as yousaid, it's something we're going to keep
an eye on because I think Ithink that's sort of the rub of this
U twenty one situation, and it'spart of why it's valuable as well.
It's so much easier, or theoreticallyat least, it's so much easier to
find two thousand minutes over the courseof a season that you can use these

(20:30):
guys. I know we saw acouple of teams leave it to the last
minute this year, But then whenthe games get more intense and when the
result matters that much more, wesee coaches sort of fall back into that
old I'd rather play somebody who Iknow is going to give me at least
a seven in this position tonight thansomebody who might give me a six or

(20:52):
a nine. I just can't takethat chance on this night. So,
as you said, it's something we'regoing to dig into a little bit more.
The general trend has been a slightdecrease, but we'll we'll get more
into it and trying to get somehistorical info as well. You can.
Yeah, absolutely something to watch thereand something not to watch for a few
months now is the Campiel. I'malways sad when that ends. It was

(21:14):
a great final. It was agreat year for a league that has now
finished five years and deserves credit forgetting through those five years. It's a
tough slog. There are some bigquestions out there. If you read my
newsletter, you'll hear about them.I'm not negative on the league overall,
though, I do think that there'sa lot of credit that needs to go
their way for getting through five seasons. And what is maybe the hardest country

(21:37):
in the world to run a professionalsoccer league. I don't say that lightly.
You know the size and where socceris historically in this country, the
travel costs, everything associated with this, you know, just our historical connection
to American leagues. It is atough, tough gig to try and run
this league and to get through fiveyears is an accomplishment. It's an incredible

(21:59):
a camp puishment and I hope tobe having these conversations for many, many
many years to come. Yeah,on that note, we're going to take
a break and we're going to talk. But well, after we take the
break, I should say, we'regoing to bring on salam Asafaro, who
is a defender for Austin too inthe MLS Next Pro. He's a champion,
they're defender people like that when we'retalking about Canadian players, Canadian prospects

(22:21):
moving forward, and you know,maybe seems silly to talk about a next
Pro guy and the Canadian national teamset up right yet and maybe it is
for now, but three years isa long ways away still, So that's
that's bring Salon. James had anopportunity to talk to him, and then
we'll be back to wrap the showup. Hello, Hello, and welcome

(22:53):
back to the Next Pot. We'rereally excited to have Austin FC two defender
Salvatory and Mazafaro joined on the show. Sal was part of the side that
won the MLS Next Pro Cup onOctober twenty second. South Thanks so much
for making some time for us.Thanks for having me, James, it
was a pretty magical playoff run.You guys went through there. You entered

(23:15):
us the fourth seed in the West. You had the sporting case Scared Money
Don't Make Money in the first round, knocked off second ranked Tacoma Defiance in
the conference semifinals, and then topside Colorado Rapids too in the conference final
on penalty kicks to seal your spotagainst Columbus in that final. How did
you guys approach that the playoffs?Where did that belief come from? That's

(23:37):
all you guys through. Yeah,So, I mean we didn't have the
end of the season we kind ofwanted. We were struggling a little bit,
dropping points when we could have beenwinning those games. But I think
our mentality just stayed the same throughoutthe throughout the season, and we had
such a good group of guys,and the coaching staff kept feeding us such

(23:57):
positivity and we just really especially whenthat Scared Money made Don't Make Money when
when we found out about that,it was just such a motivating factor.
And I feel like it all justcame and tied together towards the end and
going into Kansas, I mean,the belief and the feeling I had within
me and I could see within myteammates. It was just such an amazing

(24:19):
thing to experience. So I thinkit was just all all together, just
added up, you know, andit was it was such a great feeling.
Excellent. Yeah. When when I'ma A's Next pro announced that there
would be a choose your own opponentfeature, my ears kind of perked up.
And when Bennifel Harbers said that,I kind of knew he was setting
himself up for some trouble. Wouldtake us into the week, take us

(24:41):
into the week before the final.What was the pre match vibes amongst the
group? Like, Yeah, soobviously we were we were a hot team
coming into that final against Columbus.We had knocked off number three at home,
number two at home, and numberone at home, so playing it
on the road was became natural forus. And we struggled in the season

(25:02):
on the road, but in theplayoffs we kind of found it. It
was like a liking, you know. We boughted together on the away trips,
the plane rides, you know,the hotels, so we found a
sense of comfort and going into thatgame at Columbus, I feel like,
at least for myself, we justwe were so confident and we just kind

(25:22):
of knew the result almost before thegame even had happened. We were you
know, the vibes were so goodwith one another, and every time we
were talking about that game, itwas just such a positive conversation, you
know, like, oh, Columbusthis, and now we were already talking
about the off season and how we'regonna enjoy it knowing we'd won the whole
thing. So, I mean,going into that game, it was just
a really good feeling. Excellent.Yeah, it's always unique. Every playoff

(25:47):
runs a little bit different, butthat experience you guys have going into three
matches on the road must have beena good warm up for the final first
half relatively even to my mind.Some big saves from growth keepers to to
keep the level. But then Columbustake that lead from a penalty kick early
in the second half, and that'salways tough to come out of the half,

(26:07):
and you guys have had your conversations, you have what you want to
want to do, and the gamestate changes so quickly. How did that
affect the side? What was goingthrough your mind at that moment? Yeah,
So you just really got to keepyour head when when you go down
a goal. We've made some comebacksthroughout the season, and I really like
the mindset of our team because youknow, when our backs are against the

(26:27):
wall, rather than giving up,I feel we all just kick into to
the other gear and we really wereally bring it to the other team.
So as soon as we can seethat goal, I mean, everyone stayed
positive with each other and we justkind of played our game, stuck to
the game plan and kept Columbus intheir own half and right doing right after

(26:48):
they we conceded, we earned apenalty kick, and we were right back
in the game. Yeah, youget the equalizer, you go ahead.
You add some insurance. I sawyou involved in some of those goals liberrations
there. Maybe maybe just walk usthrough that experience of that ten minutes and
what you're thinking about and how you'rekeeping your head in the game, but
also seeing the finish line coming division. Yeah, so the momentum completely

(27:15):
changed, and I think it wasevident for everyone kind of watching that game.
But on the field, you know, you you're going through ups and
downs so so quickly, and theups really overshadowed the downs because, like
we said, boom boom, boom. Three goals back to back to back,
and to that kind of that thatfeeling I had within me, like

(27:37):
when the finish line is there,you you could almost see the trophy.
I could see on the field.Some guys were already every time the ball
went out, you made a clearance. We were smiling with one another,
just you know, really living inthe moment and joining the experience. And
it was such a nice feeling.And how did it feel when that final
whistle was blown? Oh, sucha relief, you know, like all
that hard work that we we'd putwith within, like you know, the

(28:00):
entire season and the preseason, itjust it finally paid off, and you
know, the trophy was there andwe lifted it lovely, lovely. Yeah.
We saw a little bit of thecelebration on the broadcast. So so
happy for you guys. Congratulations aswere Canadian based. One of the interesting
wrinkles for me was you got apretty good contest going with Mateo Bunbury.

(28:21):
He twisted you up on one occasion, but you did enough to put him
off. It looked like it wasa good battle. Just your thoughts on
going up against the Bunbury. Yeah, for sure, I mean He's a
dynamic player, always constantly making runsbehind that's you know, never easy for
a center back, especially when theywere you know, he's stretching us out
the entire game. So for me, it was just always getting a body

(28:41):
on him and not letting him reallycreate that space between me and him,
because I know he's a strong UHone on one player. And yeah,
I mean at the end I hadsome help with UH with my teammates just
when I'm holding them off, theythey kind of come into UH to pick
it off them. But yeah,no, great player and a great team.
Excellent. One of the conversations thatwe had with John Herdman way back

(29:04):
when he took over them as nationalteam that's always stuck with me is that
Canadian players emerged from such varied pathways. You know, you spent some time
at the TFC Academy, it wasthe University of South Florida. You had
a loan spell in USL League toowith Tormento I believe. Then you're selected
in the MLS Super drafting and youplayed this season and MLS Next Pro with

(29:25):
Austin FC. Two. Walk usdown that pathway. What have you been
searching for and what has each stepprovided for you, Yeah, for sure.
So I mean Toronto of C.They were a great team when I
was there part of the academy,they really helped me grow up in a
sense, and we went on somebig tournaments, played some big matches,

(29:45):
and that kind of that kind ofprepared me for that next step, which
was playing Division one soccer in theUS. And once I was at the
University of South Florida, I mean, the experience there is outstanding, because
is it really you really grow up. I went in there as a seventeen
year old boy, and I feellike I came out a man because you

(30:07):
know, just in college you experiencedso many things and there's so many distractions.
It was just it was a reallygood experience for me, and I
feel that that kind of really preparedme for Austin FC and that next step
in my career and now playing atthat professional level. Here at Austin FC,
it's been an amazing experience as far. It's a great club. I

(30:29):
couldn't have asked for a better club, better fan based, better better coaching
staff, and better family in general. So it's just it's been amazing.
Yeah, everything we hear about Austinis. It is fantastic. So I'm
glad to hear that you're a centerback defender. You played a little outside
back. I understand what kind ofplayer are you, What's what's your role

(30:49):
in the team, and how doyou see the game? Yeah, I
mean as a center back within thisclub. I just I my main goal
is, you know, I wantto be that guy out there that when
when times are tough, you know, I use my voice and I just
kind of uplift everybody and keep thepositive, keep the positivity going, you

(31:10):
know, when our backs are againstthe wall, like you said, when
we're down that game, I Ifeel like I talked the most then because
I really don't want anyone to kindof get discouraged put their head down.
So I'm just I want to kindof be that that guy in the back
that everyone can lean on and canrely on. Especially now. You were
a bit of an iron man forUS from twenty seven regular season appearances,

(31:32):
chipped in with a couple of goalsas well three goals, a bit of
a threat on set pieces, anduh yeah, I think I saw some
of that energy that you bring tothe side. So I was glad you
pointed that out. To your firstseason in MLS Next Pro. You know,
this is a league that's that's new, It's sort of an I think
of it as an evolution of theold reserve league, which was kind of

(31:52):
chaotic and sore. This more formalized, structured sort of system, I think
can only be good for young menlike yourself looking to make that next jump.
How have you found the league interms of competition, How has it
been for you to adjust to thoserhythms of the proferred game and is there
anything that's been particularly challenging for you. Yeah, for sure, it's a

(32:14):
great league. And coming into this, I had no idea what to expect.
I mean, none of us reallydid, for a few guys in
the team that had been at withinthe MLSX Pro last year. But yeah,
it's a great league. The teamswithin it are very competitive, and
you know, everyone's hungry, everyoneis competing for that first team spot and
you know, going through the levelsin order to reach that within the within

(32:37):
the clubs. So it was definitelya great experience for me this year and
I couldn't have asked for a betterteam to go through it with. Excellent
and then one of the benefits fora young player to go through MLS next
Pro. To my mind is youhave that proximity to the first team.
Tell me a bit about that experiencewith Austin. Have you been able to

(32:59):
get involved in with training in thefirst team and see what that jump up
requires. Yeah. So when Ifirst got drafted here, I was with
the first team for the first twomonths in in preseason, so I kind
of got a taste of what that'slike and the highest level within Major League
Soccer, and it was it wasa surreal experience, and I feel that

(33:21):
really really helped me going into theMLS Pro season because I kind of seen
what you need within yourself to tomake it to that to that top spot
and the players in my position onthat first team. So it was,
yes, it was. It wasexcellent. And throughout the season too,
you know, our team would getcalled over and trained with the first team

(33:42):
as well, So that's, uh, that's a humbling experience too, when
you know you're you're going up againstthe Dreuzes, the Rigonis de Rutis.
So it's it's an excellent experience.And the way Austin kind of structures,
you know, the first team andthe second team and the connection that two
have, it's it's excellent. Perfect. Yeah. Bob Bradley always used to

(34:05):
say when whenever they brought a TFCtwo guy up that it was about them
making the jump from going from doingeverything at sixty miles an hour to doing
it at one hundred miles an hour. So I'm glad you're getting those experiences.
You're an MLS Next Pro champion.Hopefully you'll get a little bit of
an offseason. I don't know ifyou want to come up to Ontario for
the winter, but hopefully you'll getto see some family. But what's next

(34:27):
for you? What's what's the nextstep? What's the dream? I mean,
the dream is has always been toplay professional soccer. I mean right
now I'm at the bottom of theladder and I, you know, just
want to keep going up. Inthe off season. I have to keep
my head down and continue working hardand and preseason. You know, that's
that's a new experience and a newopportunity for me. Perfect salam as a

(34:53):
Pharaoh, Thank you so much forcoming on the show. We all we
all look forward to seeing where thisadventure takes you next. Awesome. I
appreciate it, James, thanks againto Self for joining in, for Austin

(35:19):
for helping us set that up.We appreciate that, you know, as
a show that's just now nearing atthe end of its first season and for
those that didn't hear the last show, we are going to break in December
and come back for season two inJanuary. Moving forward, you know,
it's always nice when the teams helpus out and we're starting to get some
traction. You can help us getsome of the traction if you, you
know, like and comment and quoteand give us a ranking on Apple or

(35:42):
wherever. You know how this we'veheard podcasts before. You listen to a
podcast, you know what to do. Help us out by doing that doesn't
cost you anything. But yeah,thanks to Austin for that. Thanks to
Self for joining us. We getexcited sometimes when we have a player that
sort of we discover that get thepro level and we start to think about
what might be possible. James,but you were telling me off Ara when

(36:04):
you did this interview that you reallylike like the chances for this kid moving
forward? Yeah, I mean it. I don't want to say this,
I think I should say I wasgetting a little bit ahead of myself,
as you sort of forecast, Ithink that that, as you say,
defenders are a position that Canada's neededreinforcements in it for the last i don't

(36:27):
know, five ten years, maybesince Kenna McKenna hung up the boots.
So it's been a long time.It's been a long time since Canada had
had depth at that center back position, is what I'm trying to say.
And like you know, Stephen StephenVittoria is not going to be played forever,
Demil Henry is not going to beplaying forever. Kamal Miller's come a
long way over the last three fouryears in terms of being a really good

(36:51):
center back back there, and there'sa ton of guys around that that that
have potential to fill in those roles. But whenever a young defenders that comes
on the scene, whether it wasrock O Romeo back in the day when
he was a seventeen year old,Lucas McNaughton coming on the scene, he's
a bit of an older guy comparedto some of these other conversations, but
still very young in his career.You know, Lazarre Stefanovich, the seventeen

(37:15):
year old that made his first teamdebut for TFC, and saw a ton
of action for TFC two this year. Those all sort of perked my ears
up a little bit. And whatI liked about Sal in particular, and
granted I haven't seen as much ofhim as I would have, as much
of the ninety minutes of him asI would have liked to have seen,
but for a Canadian guy to godown to the US college system, stand

(37:38):
out with his team down there,get drafted in the Super draft to a
non Canadian team. As Sally toldus, he spent preseason with the first
team, so he got to experiencethat and then sign with their second team
and be a real iron man forthem. I think he started twenty seven
of twenty eight games for the teamthis year. Was a real vocal leader.

(37:59):
He was that real calm, constantpresence at the back that just sort
of allowed the rest of the teamto do their thing and to see what
they did in the playoffs too.In terms of being the one of the
later, one of the deeper,one of the higher seat, one of
the lower seeds, is what Icanna say, going in and going on
the road, you know, goingaway to Kansas City, going away to

(38:22):
Tacomba. Going away to Colorado andthen going away to Combus like that takes
a real team spirit and you gotto credit you know, they have a
fantastic goalkeeper and Damien Loss a lotof good attacking pieces. But for a
young Canadian defender to be a keyvoice and a key player on a team
that does what Austin did it itputs your ears up. And so he's
a guy that that I'm going tobe keeping an eye on going forward.

(38:45):
He's got an interesting pathway of hisown in terms of you know, TFC
academy, to college, to playin a little bit of USL League too,
to now MLS, next Pro andyou know, hopefully onto MLS soon
enough. So yeah, I alwaysget a little bit ahead of myself whenever
there's a defender that's doing some goodstuff, because I know Canada needs some

(39:06):
reinforcement there. I wouldn't want toput that on him quite yet, but
I'm excited to see the future holdsfrom Look, I can hear the TFC
fans already yelling through their devices.Even though this is that's in the future
from when we're talking now, Ican still hear them. James I don't
think we ever should blame the MLSteams for moving a guy or letting a

(39:28):
guy go, not letting a guygoing, helping a player acquire a scholarship
and then losing him through the MLSSuper Draft. That's just a quirk of
the system we have an MLS ifcollege is what makes sense for the player
and everyone involved at the time thatthey make that decision. I don't think
it's ever a bad idea. Youknow I'm talking. You're talking to a
university. I'm talking as a universitygrad here. I think university has a

(39:51):
lot of value in one's life,so I'm never going to blame someone going
there. And I don't think thatthere's a lot of faults we can throw
at TFC, a lot of faults. I don't know whether letting a guy
go to college and losing them toAustin and potentially losing an MLS player that
way when they was in the academyis necessarily one that we can get too
critical of because it's very difficult topredict where these players are going to be

(40:12):
in several years. In the NC, double A offers an opportunity as a
finishing school, so to speak,for particular defenders and players that play at
the back. I don't think youhave any memory of them when he was
a TFC, So I'm not goingto put you in the spot too much
when I when I asked, doyou have any memory of him at TFC?
Usually the way that it sort ofworks at TFC because they the number

(40:36):
of teams that they have in houseand the way that those change and the
way that the leagues have changed.Yeah, it is almost impossible to keep
on top of unless the team issending you rosters, which I don't even
know if they have them half thetime. Like, it's that sort of
the way that rosters will change.I think a guy like Jacob Schaffelberg,
for example, like he was neverexactly resident with the TFC Academy, but

(40:59):
he was a Philly with them,so when there was a break in his
schedule, he would come in andplay some games or get involved in this
tournament or do this thing. Andso there's a ton of moving pieces that
are involved in whether a win aplayer is with the academy and who's in
and who's out, and how thatall sort of works. The general recollection
I have is it's a name thatI believe I've seen on a roster list.

(41:22):
That's the point. And so Idon't remember ever seeing him play.
I think he was on either aGA Cup team or one of those teams
that went over to Italy to playin one of those youth tournaments. Aren't
they think they sent the team toFrance to toolon or No? Maybe not.
I'm mixing up a thousand different youthtournaments that I trying to keep it
on. But so big point isno, I don't particularly remember him.

(41:45):
But what I would say, andwe'll dig into this a bit more when
we only have a more fulsome academyconversation, is I know that this the
inability to translate academy players into thefirst team is a stick that's kind of
used to to beat MLS teams adrown FC in particular fair a bit And
the way that I've started to thinkabout it is a bit more, is

(42:07):
this academy producing players they don't necessarilyhave to be players for Toronto Because whether
a player makes it from the academyto the first team doesn't even necessarily it's
not even necessarily related to can theymake it. It has a lot to
do with what does the first teamneed right now? And if you don't
need a central midfield there, thenyou're not going to produce any from the

(42:30):
academy because there's nowhere for them toplay on that first team. And so
I've started to think of it moreas does a guy who comes through there
gets that education there, does hego on to find a career for himself
in the game somewhere? And thatcan be somewhere else in MLS, it
can be somewhere in the Canadian PremierLeague, it can be somewhere overseas.
And I think as long as anacademy is doing that, if it's advancing

(42:52):
guys along those football pathways that wetalk about it, then then it's doing
its job. You know, youwould love if it was producing those players
for your team, But that's justthere's an extra factor that doesn't necessarily have
anything to do with the quality ofplayers coming out of the academy that that
I think gets overlooked a little toomuch. Yeah, well, completely aligned

(43:14):
on that point that the way tojudging academy is how many professionals it produce,
is not necessarily how many first teamplayers it produces for its own team.
Particularly when that club is at thevery top of a pyramidve within whatever
country it operates in. I mean, you look at Barcelona, like they
produced a lot of players through thatfamed academy, but they produced a hell

(43:36):
of a lot more players that havejust played professional elsewhere. And that's the
true measure of it. Isn't necessarilythat two or three stars came out of
it. So it's produced, youknow, seventy five players that played Vision
one football somewhere right, And ifyou know, any MLS academy starts to
do that, then then then that'sgreat. I think what you know to

(43:57):
get into this a bit of anMLS development conversation. Second, I think
that they, the league and theteams could do a better job of making
profit off of some of the playersand talent that they do develop. I
think they lose talent a little tooeasily sometimes without rewarding those clubs for the
work that they did at the developmentside like they would elsewhere. This might
be an example of that. Youknow, he goes to college. How

(44:21):
much did the college play in hisdevelopment? How much did the academy play
in his development? I don't know, But the same thing as they say
that. I also don't want tohold players back. I don't like labor
restrictions that drafts and things do,so I'm not going to, you know,
demand that TFC maintain his rights,you know, forever, like MLS
has done in the past. Soit's a difficult conversation and a lot of

(44:44):
smart people work on it all thetime, and probably people smarter than me
anyway trying to figure out how tofix it. But you hope that this
guy, this kid can continue todevelop and hopefully can feature for Austin or
another MLS team or a team inEurope or or wherever in the days ahead.
And you know, ultimately I'll holdthe World Cup up in in you

(45:04):
know, the Rose Bowl in twentytwenty six or I think it'll be,
uh, I think the final willactually be in that La Stadium with Rams
play, I think, But I'mnot sure yet. Yeah, no,
definitely, I wasn't sure if youwere throwing it to me or what was
going on. But yeah, Ithink I think to answer your question to

(45:29):
and to respond to the thought alittle bit more, I think it has
to be a situation where teams,teams are willing to give up that little
bit of perhaps financial reward they couldget from it, knowing that they are
going to benefit from getting that inreturn on certain players as well. You
know, like that's just sort ofgot to be it's got to be a
bit of a gray area in themarket right now. Maybe as things developed,

(45:50):
it's something that those smart people indark rooms can can figure out how
to deal with more succinctly. Butas you said, yeah, the best
thing for Canadians right now is thatwe get these players playing, and we
get them in teams, and weget them advancing up those levels and so
yeah, and I'm really curious tosee where goes with us. And it's
always a lot of fun to meeta new guy and see what he thinks

(46:14):
about the game and see, youknow, what he wants from the game
and stuff like that. And soto have a guy who was a name
on a list when he was fifteenyear old fifteen years old become a player
that won a championship is just it'sa good Canadian soccer story and we want
as many of those as we canget. The best Canadian soccer story of
all time, of course, isChristine Sinclair. We'd be remiss if we

(46:37):
didn't end the Canadian Soccer Show talkinga little bit about the retirement of Sinclair,
the all time leading goal scorer ofcourse in international football, inarguably the
most well known Canadian soccer player ofall time, likely among certainly on a
short list of the greatest female athletesCanada's produced. You know, I'm a

(47:00):
big Olympic guys, so I'm goingto make an argument for Claire using that
conversation. Certainly, you know,hockey players like miss Planimous Organizer would be
in that conversation as well. Butbut Christine Saint Clair is absolutely part of
it. Too hardly develop a conversation, But we do congratulate Christine Sinclair there

(47:20):
on her retirement upcoming soon or internationalretirement now and then retirement from the Thorns
in a year or so. AndI think we all agree, James,
that we hope that that Miss Sinclaircan remain in the Canadian system and continue
to help and develop the next generationof young Canadian players, rather whether they
be male or female, because honestly, this is a player that does not

(47:43):
transcends any gender divide that might existin the sport. She's she's that big.
Any thoughts, dreams, Yeah,I was able to h, well,
I guess just to start, Imean, like, where do you
go when when you're trying to saygoodbye to somebody who is meant as much
to the game in this country asChristine Sinclair has, Like I almost don't

(48:06):
know where to start when it comesto something of what she has meant for
Canadian soccer. And so listening intothe press conference that that Canada Soccer held
her before their first match against BRAZILAin Montreal, it was it was.
It was funny because when Michael Bradleyannounced his retirement, when we were up

(48:30):
at the training ground for Michael Bradley'sretirement press conference, that was when the
news of Christie Sinclair against circular andit sort of struck me, as you
know, two of the biggest figuresat least in my little little pond of
Canadian soccer announcing their retirements on thesame day was a bit of like a

(48:52):
oh crap, what's next? Likelike, Christine Sinclair has been such a
such an ever present in terms ofthe Canadian soccer conversation for so long that
I don't know what it would looklike without her, and I don't know
what it will look like when she'snot playing. But you know, I
got some reassurance in that in thatpress conference she held in Montreal. She

(49:15):
plans on staying involved in the game, which is excellent. She plans on
continuing the fight whether it's off fieldin terms of dealing with the compensation for
the players, and she hopes tostay involved with the game. And you
know, one of the things thatthat Canada has struggled with in the past
is is finding places for people whohave reached the highest levels in the game

(49:35):
to stay involved in the game andin a sort of institutional way. And
you know, guys will players willgo off and they'll form their they'll form
their academies, or they'll get involvedin media or whatever it is. But
we need to have those brains involvedin the day to day operation. And
you know, you and I havebeen able to have a couple of conversations
with those people behind the scenes whoare doing that heavy lifting out of the

(49:59):
spotlight that makes this game work.And so, you know, you you
like to think that as big asChristine's contribution was on the pitch, that
you know she's she's got another anotherwhole, separate lifetime ahead of her.
To continue doing that and being thatthat role model and that spokesperson for Canadian

(50:19):
soccer. So I'm looking forward tothat. And I thought it was funny
that, you know, she shesaid in the press conference that she was
she was contemplating just sort of youknow, calling it a day after after
Canada qualified for Paris with with thosewins over Jamaica, and you know,
not announcing it, not having allthe hullabaloo that goes into into a retirement

(50:43):
tour, and you know, shewas she was tempted to just say that,
you know, send out the pressrelease and have that be that,
and you know, her friends andher family sort of convinced her that that,
you know, she owed people theopportunity to come out and say goodbye.
And I always find that it's funnythat somebody who's given so much could

(51:06):
could think that they will people anymore. So just I think it just speaks
to her character. And you know, hopefully the two games in Vancouver later
later in this year go off swimmingly. I hope they open up the second
tier in BC Place and give Christinaa proper sendoff. And you know,
as much as it's always sad whena player retires that you're not going to

(51:29):
get to see them last they anymoreand get back out there on the pitch.
You know that that there's good thingsahead for them as well, and
so I'm really excited to see whatthe next chapter is for Christine's in class.
One of the great things for anathlete is that when they retire at
the end of a long career,they immediately go from being old to being

(51:50):
young again. Because forty years oldis a very young woman and she has
a lot of life left and alot left to give in this sport.
So we hope to see it.We hope to We certainly hope that it's
in Canada and supporting the Canadian game. I think that the smartest thing the
CSA could do is to sit downwith Christine Sinclair right away and hash out
some role for her that is directlyinvolved with that kind of playing a role

(52:14):
that works between them Women's national teamand and the federation to try and rebuild
some trust, because that we thatjust has to happen for to go forward
and for growth to happen. Ithink is we need to re establish some
trust between the federation and and thewomen because as I've written before, like
they're stuck with each other. Youcan't just you can't sack the CSA,

(52:37):
to use an old term, youcan't. It's not possible. You have
to have an FA to operate inthe world football the way it exists right
now. So we need to figureout way to make it work. And
Christine Sinclair may have a role andthat I hope she does have a role
in that well, and yeah,I agree with you, it's going to
be weird to see the sport withouther. I mean, I do remember.
I'm old enough to remember prior tothat, that Under nineteen championship in

(53:00):
two thousand and two. You know, I was watching the women before that,
but I could count the amount ofpeople around me that we're watching with
me back then that followed it inany way whatsoever. It has now become
a program that sells out stadiums andwill likely very likely sell a BC place.
To say goodbye to the greatest thatthe game has ever seen on a

(53:24):
goal scoring level. All right,James. On that note, we're going
to say goodbye for this week.Thanks for listening as always, and yeah,
this is the end, beautiful,That is everything.